#i understand being only attracted to femininity or masculinity that makes total sense. but as soon as gender norms are out of the equation | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

goosemixtapes · 3 years

Text

ok i’ve elected to just Make The Damn Post My Damn Self because i need something to link back to when i inevitably get into arguments about this because i have run-my-mouth disorder. so. slightly-more-generally-applicable companion piece to this post:

“but how can lesbians use he/him pronouns???!?1???”

1: pronouns =/= gender.

one of the arguments i see a lot with this topic is “pronouns = gender, & saying otherwise is transphobic.” i GET this, because pronouns are important & often correlate with gender, but saying pronouns = gender is oversimplified. pronouns are a method of gender presentation - same as clothing, name, & so on & so forth. society genders all of these things, but names & clothing do not prescribe gender. a man, cis or trans, who decides to wear a dress does not become a woman because of the dress; a woman, cis or trans, with a traditionally “masculine” name (ex. bailey, taylor, cameron), does not become a man because of the name. closeted trans people, if they must use names and wear clothing correlated with their agab, are still trans & are still the gender they are.

yes, most binary-gendered people choose clothing & names that “match” their gender, but some might not! think of butch lesbians -- they are women, just deliberately gendernonconforming women. pronouns are the same way -- the majority of men use “masculine” pronouns, & the majority of women use “feminine” pronouns, but this is because pronouns are a form of gender expression/presentation.

“pronouns =/= gender” does not equate to “i can misgender whoever i want.” pronouns should always be respected.

2: nonbinary people can use whatever pronouns they want.

this follows from #1. yeah, i’d say the majority of nonbinary people use they/them pronouns. but not all nonbinary people dress totally androgynously; some present more feminine or more masculine. the same is true for pronouns. nonbinary people may use she/her or he/him pronouns as part of their presentation - think of jonathan van ness (uses primarily he/him) or rebecca sugar (uses she/her along with they/them). this isn’t even getting into neopronouns; that’s a whole different post. the point is that restricting nonbinary people to they/them pronouns really misses the point of identifying as nonbinary: it’s not a third slot in the gender binary; it’s the general state of existing outside or partially outside of it.

(note: cis people can also use whatever pronouns they want. some cis lesbians use he/him; i’ll get to he/him lesbians a few slots down, but i just want to make it clear that sometimes cis people also use pronouns to express gender nonconformity & that’s their business & the same idea!)

3: lesbians can be nonbinary.

nonbinary =/= totally genderless. sometimes, for some people, it does mean that! but not for everyone. see #2 again, on trying to make nonbinary a strictly defined third gender.

(note: this doesn’t only apply to lesbians. this honestly applies to anyone. i’m just talking about lesbians because that’s My Lane.)

lesbians in particular often have complex relationships with gender, & have for literal decades. as womanhood is to a large degree constructed in contrast to & in relation to manhood, lesbian gender has kind of taken on its own thing since we just... are never in relationships with men, ever, which muddles the whole thing up. (also, womanhood is often a generally uncomfortable and muddled thing because of, you know, misogyny, so there’s that.) thus, a lot of lesbians feel disconnected from “womanhood” as an idea.

a lot of people like to protest nonbinary lesbians by saying “but a lesbian is a GIRL who likes GIRLS!!!1!!” yes. we... we know. the thing is, though, that if any nonbinary person identifies as a lesbian, they are probably close enough to womanhood to count as a wlw! the term “lesbian” automatically brings “women who love women” to people’s minds. if a nonbinary person is uncomfortable associating with womanhood at all, literally why would they use that term. it stands to reason that the people who DO use that term feel at least a tangential connection there.

a lot of lesbians define their gender solely as “lesbian.” in my own experience, the ONLY connection i feel toward womanhood is liking girls in a gay way. the attraction i feel toward women is gay attraction - i am attracted to women who like women. i do not want to date a straight woman who sees me as a man. if i didn’t like women, i wouldn’t have this connection & would probably identify otherwise - but i do like women & as it is that’s pretty much... what my gender is. (this is why people may say their gender is “butch” or “femme” -- it’s the same idea of a gender defined by attraction & the way you relate to women!)

for some people, nonbinary does mean totally genderless. for others, it just means anything that isn’t strictly binary. hence why some lesbians may consider themselves nonbinary - not entirely woman, but woman enough to be a lesbian. an example in layman’s terms: you know how “berry” lacroix tastes like it maybe saw a berry, once, from a distance? my gender is lacroix and the flavor is woman.

4: lesbians can thus use whatever pronouns they want.

i think this one is like... a geometry proof. #2 (nonbinary people can use any pronouns) + #3 (lesbians can be nonbinary) makes this one pretty simple. while the rest of this post will be about he/him lesbians, because that’s what i see the most “discourse” about, lesbians can use she/her or they/them or he/him or it/its or xe/xem or Any Other Pronouns They Want. Any.

5: “but why would a lesbian ever want to use he/him pronouns?”

people who ask this are usually asking one of these more specific questions:

“but if you use he/him, aren’t you a man?” see #1.

“but why would lesbians want to use masculine pronouns when lesbianism is about women?” i don’t know. why do butch lesbians dress masculinely? why do they often use masculine names or nicknames? it’s about the deliberate gender nonconformity, something that has been central to lesbian communities for literal decades. pronouns are another form of presentation (see #1); using pronouns other than she/her is another form of nonconformity.

“masculine clothing and names i get -- but why pronouns? that feels a little much.” i do get this! i used to feel the same way! but the criteria for being a lesbian is like... 1) not a man 2) a woman or at least sort of connected to being a woman (see #3) (yes, this includes trans lesbians, who are not men) 3) attracted to women and not men. that’s the criteria. that’s all.

& i would like to think that some of you have the best intentions. but i would really, really caution you away from trying to disqualify people from iding as lesbians because of the pronouns they use. saying “well, clearly lesbians can wear masculine clothes and have masculine names, but the pronouns are a step too far” doesn’t make any sense -- where do you draw the line? at what point are you trying to define when someone is “too masculine to be a lesbian?” and why do you feel the need to do that?

this goes double for nonlesbians. i’ll repeat: really, honestly ask yourself why you feel the need to do that.

(note: butch lesbians aren’t the only lesbians who are gender nonconforming and they aren’t the only ones who use he/him pronouns! but i’ve found this is very common among butches, more so than other lesbians, + it’s another space where i can speak from personal experience.)

6: “wait but this feels kind of TERFy. are you saying trans men can be lesbians?”

oh no. oh god no. lesbians = not men. trans men = men. (& trans women = trans women, & TERFS can choke.)

i think there is a misconception among some trans men (especially transmedicalists) that he/him lesbians are trying to tell trans men they aren’t “real men” & thus undermining their identities. the idea is that we’re saying, “hey, look, lesbians can use whatever pronouns we want! thus, you don’t need to transition :) you can use he pronouns and still be a gay woman :)” to which the obvious response is “i’m not a woman and this is transphobic.”

but i... honestly truly have never seen a he/him lesbian say that. we aren’t the same! even if we use the same pronouns, even if we may take some of the same steps to feel gender euphoria (ex. wearing more masculine clothing, binding/going on T for afab lesbians), we are not the same! trans men = men. men cannot be lesbians. he/him lesbians = people who are not men, but have a complicated relationship to womanhood. thus:

he/him lesbians =/= trans men.

there is no correlation.

(note: i lied. there is one correlation. the correlation is friends and allies. trans men i’m on your team and i hope you’re having a good day. my right to exist is not mutually exclusive with yours; we’re fighting similar battles.)

7. “okay, i guess, but i still don’t really get it?”

that’s okay!! gender is confusing as shit (plus this was a long & slightly repetitive post, because i wanted to make sure i covered all my bases). here are some things you can do if you still don’t understand:

a) talk to more he/him lesbians! maybe my explanation doesn’t really do it for you, but someone else’s will! (if you’re interested in lesbian history, i can recommend stone butch blues, which can be downloaded as a PDF from leslie feinberg’s website. the main character’s relationship to gender isn’t quite the same as the one explained in this post -- jess has to use he/him & pass as male to stay safe -- but it’s still a good read that gets into the complexity of lesbian gender. the lesbian mc participates in butch/femme culture, gets top surgery, & later has a relationship with a trans woman -- so, basically, corroborating what i’ve said about how lesbians can do all of these things & still be lesbians.)

b) if you don’t have the time/energy/desire to talk to more he/him lesbians, that’s fine! just respect us. respect our pronouns. don’t misgender us; don’t call us men or say we aren’t lesbians. you don’t have to get it to accept us.

c) here’s a secret. if you still don’t understand, but you are no longer seeking help understanding & you’ve decided to just vibe and respect us without totally Getting It - that is totally fine. you don’t need to tell us this :) saying “hey, i don’t really get it, could you help?” is one thing. saying “hey, i still don’t get it. not asking for help, just letting you know” is uh. is like. um. okay thanks for informing me?? i guess ??

i understand that not everyone will Get It. but if you’re using my pronouns & respecting my identity, i do not need to hear that you don’t actually get it because my gender is super complicated. it is a little, er, how you say, impolite. (again - not the same as asking for help! i’m totally open to answer any questions anyone has.)

_______________________________________________________________________

source: i am a he/him lesbian.

you are allowed & politely encouraged to reblog this post.

if anyone would like to add to this post -- particularly other lesbians and/or trans women (as i’m tme and don’t want to overstep) -- feel free!

if anyone would like to ask me to elaborate on something, feel free to ask in the reblogs, replies, or in my inbox/dms!

if anyone would like to clown on this post and say some lesbophobic or transphobic bullshit without reading what i wrote, please block me, log off, & go trip over something <3

#max.txt #long post #WOOF. long post. im so sorry i have a lot to say #he/him lesbians

800 notes · View notes

mistressemmedi · 3 years

Text

Måneskin: "Different from whom?"

Greetings from Miley Cyrus - phenomenal numbers.

The streams of Zitti e Buoni are growing by the second, and ahead of Muse, on the top of the English charts, twelfth in the Spotify Global Chart. We almost tripled followers after Rotterdam (from 1.4 to 3.3 million, ed). Contagious and universal madness: T-shirts and merchandise sold out in 10 minutes. Like records, tickets for a tour that adds dates and expands on maps. They are even looking for us in festivals where the Rolling Stones have played. - Thomas

After the whole cocaine scandal that was started against us from France, which was later denied by my drug test, in Spain there people have been making murals with my face saying "No drugs". Some tweets made us laugh: «Congratulations, Italy! I have never been so sure that four people have fucked each other ". Miley Cyrus started following us. "You are great". “You are more” . - Damiano

From rags to riches - what a story

It was only 2016, and we were playing in restaurants, on the streets, in via del Corso (famous street in Rome). Damiano without a microphone, Thomas's guitar with broken strings, Ethan drummed on a cajón. At the occupations of the high schools in Rome (Kennedy, Virgilio, Mamiani) we had our first gigs and half an hour of fame, between those who criticized us and those who said "these guys are so cool". One of the rare times in which they offered to pay us to play - 50 euros each - we offered that money to those after us, in exchange for the chance to play during their time slow, as we knew there would have been a bigger crowd. We already understood then how it worked. That visibility was worth more than the money. We still think so ». - Victoria

The intimacy of rock - Choice of a genre

Music allows is this miracle which allows one to talk about very personal and private topics, even difficult and delicate ones. They are and remain deeply yours, but at the same time they become a confession that reaches a wider audience, and in this passage which is like a delivery, they also find their place in you, their elaboration. They are overcome, they are accepted. One moment it feels aggressive, one moment later a (soft) ballad. It's very cathartic. - Damiano

Against panic - The stage as therapy

I have suffered a lot from anxiety and panic attacks, it is a problem that I have worked on thanks to a course of psychotherapy, to my friends and family. Playing has helped me not to let myself be paralyzed by my fears, not to be limited in my private and professional life. I have learned to accept, to live with this side of me. I don't hide it. I no longer feel ashamed. - Victoria

This belief that only crazy people go to the psychologist is widespread ignorance. Nobody is born learned. And it is often difficult to understand why we are here, let alone the derivation and direction of our desires. It is a long and legitimate journey towards one's clarity. - Damiano

Essere fuori di testa – Ma diversi da loro (Be out of your mind - But different from them)

Already feeling a strong passion for something that is not a 'regular' profession but an artistic language, it puts you on a level where you're an anomaly, and while you're neither superior nor inferior to others, it places you in the condition of what breaks the mold but you're also being at a loss, leaving it to you to be bold and to take risks, hoping that they will pay off and land you somewhere. "What good is it if you don't stand out on your own?". You want to give it an aesthetic to your artistic dream, but to others it boils down to " You dress differently! You must be gay! ”, I'm 22 now and it makes me laugh, but at 17 it had an effect on me too. - Damiano

The beauty of being unique - Of believing in that and defending it

After all, we are all different not because we want to be alternative but because really no one is the same. Justice is being judged on what you do and not what you are. Justice is equality, respect, beauty. - Ethan

Fluid sexuality - Pride is freedom

We appreciate heels on men, we kiss each other, we have an open, extended mind, and we are proud of it. The horizons become vast, beyond the oppression of conservative families. With information on the web, knowledge is enriched and with it the possibility that minorities will be fewer and fewer, because majorities will be fewer and fewer. This will lower the volume to insults and bullying. If social networks can reach a village of 50 souls to reveal to someone, who is afraid of the darkness, that someone has felt that same fear.. There is no longer the need to give it a name, to define that "something" to fear, to brand it with labels that only limit you. Definitions have always had this effect on me. Gender should not even be considered in a person's judgment. Let alone orientation ". - Victoria

Sexism - A culture to be dismantled

Emma (Italian singer) dropped the bomb:" When I went to Eurovision, they insulted me over a pair of shorts. Damiano - half naked and in heels - was never criticized ". The judgment against women is constant, ferocious, and demeaning (if I have a lot of sex I'm cool but Vic a whore, where I show myself strong I'm a leader she is domineering and pain in the ass, who is successful because only because of her looks [and not the hard work she puts in]). As a male I am privileged, the harassment I suffer is not comparable to that experienced by a woman, the comments on my aesthetics are focused only on my aesthetics and do not insinuate anything about my professionalism and my competence, while women are victims of this kind of thinking in a systemic way. But I did find myself in a situation, out of nowhere, with someone who, pulling close to her for a selfie, started licking my face ... "What do you want, did you ask me?" Consent exists, and it is a must ». - Damiano

To grow as a person - The only rule to follow

For me, to conform is the total opposite of educating oneself, and the asphyxiation of one's expression (of freedom). Fortunately, I did not suffer heavy bullying, to the point where I felt I needed to change to adapt to how others saw me. But the matrix of who I am and the aggression that marks me is the same. If I'm a kid who dances and loves dolls, then allow me the freedom to do so. I used to be a kid who wanted long hair and played with Barbies. My friends, as a teenager, looked my long hair and teased me: "You have to find yourself a girl with a short hair to make up for it". My grandparents took the dolls away from me and said: “Stop it, they're not for you” ». - Ethan

“I was six and I already could not tolerate the distinctions between masculine and feminine. I've always had strong ideas about how I wanted to be. I refused things typically defined as feminine as a child, and they made fun of me for skating, for playing soccer, for not wearing skirts, for giving myself the chance to be as I wanted to be. I suffered a little, as I was bullied, but I had courage to stay true to myself, and today thanks to that courage I know that I could have been much more hurt, or I would have risked leaving the most important decision to others: the one about being just me". - Victoria

Love - music and girlfriends

I've been married to music for the past 20 years. I cannot wait to celebrate our golden wedding anniversary. - Ethan

Everyone goes through their own experiences, sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad, but it's never other people's business." - Thomas

When, for the first time, I developed feelings and attraction for a girl it was a bit disorienting because I had never had the courage to go beyond the limitations I had imposed on myself. For society, being heterosexual is the norm and therefore often one automatically pegs himself in that way, giving up the freedom to experience many different shades and facets of love. Once I got over the initial insecurity of having to question one's own certainties, I lived my sexuality in a very natural and free way, as it should be for everyone. - Victoria

I had paparazzi under my house morning and night. So, after four years of relationship, I finally revealed her name. I still have the paparazzi under my house morning and night, but at least I don't have to hide anything anymore. - Damiano

The value of the group - Protecting each other

But the real relationship, the real family, is between us. Our band. We believed in it from the first day, even before calling ourselves Måneskin (moonlight in Danish), even before Ethan drew a giant moon, on the poster for our first concert. We share everything, even the pain of the tragedy of Seid Visin, who committed suicide at 20 because he was a victim of racism. Being a group is what we should all do together: stay united and not retreat in the slightest in the face of abuses generated by a distorted vision of someone "being different|. - Thomas

Non ho l’età – like Gigliola (It references Gigliola Cinquetti who won both Sanremo and Eurovision with her song "Non ho l’età" which translates to Not old enough)

Before us, the only one to win Sanremo and Eurovision together was Gigliola Cinquetti (in 1964). Is there is something for which I feel I am not yet old enough for? No, honestly no. Maybe for kids. I'll be honest, I'm not enough to be a dad. - Damiano

Reached the sky - What fears still remain

We are more than in the dream, we have conquered the dream. To fly high this high, there is the risk is to fall and get hurt, but we will try not to end up like Icarus, who burns his wings with the sun. Everything is in our hands. And this - somewhat presumptuously - reassures us rather than frighten us ". - Damiano

(ORIGINAL INTERVIEW IN ITALIAN)

[Please note that I have changed some words or structure sentence, trying to make it so that the interview made more sense lol - I skipped the first two paragraphs, which was basically the interviewer gushing over how pretty the band is lmao (relatable).

Any mistakes in the translation are sorely mine, nothing was proofread, so apologies in advance]

#maneskin #ethan torchio #damiano david #victoria de angelis #thomas raggi #i'm off to drink some wine lol

146 notes · View notes

dog-teeth · 3 years

Note

this is an odd question and perhaps one you have answered before, but how did you know you were genderfluid and also how did you like come to terms with it if that makes sense????

god i rly cant talk about gender/sexuality at all without it being a fucking essay so its under the cut lol

basically i just kept trying different labels or feeling like the labels i used didn't completely feel right or completely explain how i felt, even umbrella terms like genderqueer/nonbinary, i felt like there was more to it than that idk???

sometimes i would feel totally genderless or neutral and then other times i would feel more masculine-aligned, or sometimes i would feel completely repulsed by / opposed to my (past/perceived) femininity, and other times i would feel chill with it even tho i still wasn't a girl, sometimes i would feel connected to maleness or femaleness (often in tandem with my sexuality, feeling either closer aligned to or more opposed to whatever gender i was attracted to at the time).

anyways i always felt uneasy with my gender and never felt like i could properly understand my own feelings, eventually i realized i was genderfluid (in addition to other gender labels i use, trans and genderqueer mostly), but still for a while after that i didn't actively use the label or reflect much on it?? it took me a while to like be able to lean into it and understand myself through the lens of genderfluidity instead of just applying the label to myself.

its a hard gender to come to terms with honestly bc its very confusing and there's very little representation of other genderfluid people out there in the world or in media. im the only genderfluid person i know irl, and even though most of my friends are also trans, i still have a hard time feeling understood sometimes.

generally though my relationship with my gender got better when i realized its ok for my gender to change, and i can just take it one day at a time, i dont have to figure out "what i REALLY am" i can just sorta vibe.

i try to check in with myself and see how im feeling, and reaffirm that its ok! it took a while for me to internalize that i dont have to be a statically-identified 100% androgynous person - feeling more masc-aligned is not bad & i don't have to feel guilty about it, and feeling more in touch with femininity (in both presentation and identity) is also not bad and doesn't invalidate my transness.

when i first started accepting my genderfluidity, i would flip out when i felt more gender-y instead of an absense of gender or an androgynous/neutral gender. im still never feel male or female, but feeling closer to a binary gender would make me really uncomfortable. so it just took a lot of reaffirming to myself that however i feel is ok and if it changes again thats also ok!

i would definitely say that my genderfluidity is really intertwined with my bisexuality. my gender shifts over periods of a couple days or months etc, but often the most vivid and distinct changes in my gender happen when i have romantic/sexual feelings for someone. the people im around socially also have this effect on me, i have some friends who when im with them im more likely to feel a certain gender etc. hard to explain.

#gender stuff #ez answers

77 notes · View notes

im-the-punk-who · 3 years

Text

I know many, many people have said this before but I was talking with a friend last night and she brought up how different cultures have different standards for what ‘masculine’ and ‘feminine’ sexuality and gender look like.

It’s something I’ve been trying to articulate for a while now about why exclusionary practices are based in eurocentrism and racism and xenophobia, and i’m not sure i have it totally thought out but I’m gonna give it a go.

She(a black woman) brought up how ingrained into the Black experience white heteronormativity is, and how if the Black idea of what ‘queerness’ is was expanded, a lot more Black people would likely be comfortable identifying as some sort of queer. Because queer only really means, ‘differing in some way from what is usual or normal : odd, strange, weird.‘

She brought up how a lot of the expectations of both Black men and women are based either in conforming to whiteness or conforming to the Black community’s rejection of it, and how these are seen as ‘straight’ identities even though they are completely separate and often restrictive in their actualization. That so many of the body-image issues POC have are due to eurocentric beauty standards.

If you take a ‘cis man’ and a ‘cis woman’ who identify completely within their cultural genders (say, a Sikh man or an Indigenous woman or a Black American woman or a Mexican man or a Hassidic Jewish man or a Korean woman etc etc etc) all of those presentations of what ‘gender’ means to that culture are completely different. (Not to mention the .... incalculable different phenotypical presentations of ‘cis’ gender that exist.)

And then of course add in that many cultures already *have* identities that under a colonialist lens are viewed as ‘queer’. The entire umbrella of Indigenous two-spirit identities is in and of itself a colonial conglomeration of hundreds of distinct cultural identities, all of which are ‘queer’ only in the sense that they are not definable by western gender norms. But within their own cultures these people are not viewed as ‘different’ or ‘queer’ but just another way to present an identity.

So, basically, the point that I’m trying to make is that there is no real way to define ‘queer’ - or even being Gay or Lesbian to be completely exclusinist - that does not racialize gender, because gender as white people understand it is already racialized and based on a perception of gender that conforms only to white standards of physical presentation. And so in truth I think the pushback against queer inclusivity cannot be separated from the pushback against normalizing non-white perceptions of gender, and from the expected assimilation by people of color.

Because once you recognize that there are literally millions of different ways to present even a cis-heterosexual gender, culturally(and this isn’t even getting into mixed race people or people who grew up in culturally diverse areas!), it becomes clear that there cannot be a single way to define what someone is, or what someone can identify as or present as, and therefore what people can be ‘attracted’ to in order to identify as a thing.

Saying that there is one ‘true’ experience of womanhood, or maleness, or gayness, or lesbianism, based on who or what people are attracted to is invalidating the millions of different ways sex, gender, and selfhood can be expressed.

To say that someone ‘cannot’ identify as part of the LGBT+ community because they are gender or socially nonconforming but don’t necessarily experience same-sex attraction (and yes I specifically left room for this to include trans, intersex, and polyam/leather/BDSM heterosexuals) is to invalidate the experiences of gender and society that fall outside the white perception.

#queer tag #heteronormativity #eurocentrism #colonialism #like literally there are so many cultures that include polyamory and yet eurocentric values so ROUNDLY exclude it that polyam people #are denied a lot of the basic rights of monosexual people - AND face stigma for it - regardless of the origin of their polyamorous practies #and like to be so prescriptivist about what someone as a gay or lesbian person can be attracted to is very weird bc like???#you are literally excluding people from ANYONE being attracted to them and thats???? very odd family that is very odd #anyway i was thinking about this all day so here

71 notes · View notes

sizzlingpatrolfox · 2 years

Note

Do you find any of the BTS members attractive? I was enjoying the mayhem Taehyung's naked insta story caused,but at the same time,I'm completely unbothered by it. I love Tae,but he's not hot to me,at all. Jungkook too. His personality is so endearing and he is so insanely pretty,but I just feel admiration and a lil bit of envy when I look at his body,not attraction. I'm supposed to be bisexual but they're too "manly" to me.

I kinda enjoy generally not being distracted by their hotness(with some exceptions) but it does make me feel a little like an outsider too.

The exceptions are Jimin and Yoongi, but Jimin is still often too "manly". It's hard to find the words to describe these traits without falling into harmful stereotypes. Jimin is very "feminine" and I don't mean this in any shape or form as an insult(I mean I like women,it's a compliment),but it feels directed towards other men,not me. While Yoongi's "femininity" is just general,and it feels it can be directed towards women too. So I can respond to that,if that makes any sense? or maybe it's the Min Yoonji effect lol.

(There could be a lot of debates over what we mean by feminine and masculine,but right now I used these words just in the sense of traits that I find attractive or less attractive,and it has not got to do with their personalities. If I decided strictly by personality,I'd want to date a woman like Taehyung(or Jin) most. But his body isn't "feminine" at all,so I mean it like that. This is not about the beard,I can grow one too lmao)

Anyway,since you are bi/lesbian,I was wondering how it's like for you,if it's not too personal to ask?

Hellooo. I'm bi, yes. No, it's not too personal to ask (tho this answer might get too personal). I do find some of them attractive and some others no. Then there are also periods of time I find someone attractive and other periods where I don't find the same members attractive at all lmao. I'm already cringing at the amount of times I will use the word attractive in this post btw.

This might sound so lame and tired but I'm all about somebody's personality. Of course there's an element of physical attraction, I mean I have to think the other person is handsome/beautiful etc first to be interested in them, but ultimately what seals the deal for me is personality. I'm attracted to simplicity. I don't tolerate fighting, lying, being lied to, being made feel insecure or like I have to guess what the other is thinking. I'm attracted to people who are open and vulnerable and that are easy to talk to and connect with. I don't like feeling like I'm fighting for someone's affection/interest. I just leave inmediately if I feel like that. It's really a turn off for me when people try to be all hard to get and mysterious and like they're too cool for feelings.

There are other things I'm not attracted to but that's pretty much the gist of it for me.

(I just remembered this poem I really love https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/930538-i-loved-you-on-purpose-i-was-open-on-purpose and this quote sums it up perfectly "i loved you on purpose i was open on purpose i still crave vulnerability & close talk")

I have always been aware that I was and am so attracted to Jimin because I see all these qualities in him. Of course I've always thought he's incredibly pretty and handsome at the same time but I think the same about other BTS members and I was never attracted to them.

In BTS, only Jimin is attractive for me. The rest fluctuates a lot... and there are things I find attractive and other things that are a total No for me. For example Namjoon and Jungkook. I think Namjoon is hot and his intelligence, his humbleness when admitting own mistakes, his desire to learn and grow to become a more understanding and compassionate man is to die for, really. All of these things about Namjoon are really attractive for me. BUT he doesn't seem like an affectionate person, and that's not attractive for me at all lol. I don't know how he's in a relationship but from what I see and know about him, apparently he's not the affectionate cuddly guy and I like people who are openly affectionate. Something similar happens to me with Jungkook, too. I think he's hot hot hot but there's always the latent feeling that there's more to his personality that he's not showing/is hiding, and that just throws me off. Around 2018, 2019 I felt attraction for him because he seemed more open and like he was putting himself out there and he was so transparent, so lively. The way he jumped into the crowd at that one concert just to shake the hand of a fan in a wheelchair, that’s attractive to me. But after a while I stopped perceiving that from him and just... I really don't like wondering "is there more to him?"

With Taehyung, I don't feel anything either. I realize, I can see (duh) that he's incredibly good looking but there are many things about his personality that I never really vibed with, so seeing him I feel nothing.

Like I've said, it really is all about personality and even if I think you're the hottest person on Earth, I just can't possibly feel any attraction if I don't like your personality.

And as far as physical appearance/vibe goes, I like men that go from looking like Tom Hardy to... Park Jimin lol. I really don't have a type when it comes to the way men look.

5 notes · View notes

icebloomed · 2 years

Text

there’s so much i could say when it comes to chie’s problems with herself, and i’ll start by saying: she barely has any at all. compared to the rest of the IT, chie has the least amount of issues. people constantly discuss how chie struggles with her femininity because she’s jealous of yukiko. i find this... wrong? i see this entire scene as code of a misunderstanding of her inner feelings that are bloated by her shadow coming forward. when chie’s shadow goes on about how yukiko has perfect skin, beautiful hair, guys just adore her, and is totally perfect, this feels actually romantically coded. chie’s been yukiko’s friend since their childhood where they met at the riverbank because yukiko’s parents told her she couldn’t keep a puppy and she ran away. they’re so connected to each other. the idea that yukiko could one day leave her is terrifying -- chie doesn’t seem to realize that she could leave too and still be with yukiko wherever she goes. where yukiko goes, chie will go. she likes that yukiko is dependent on her. she likes feeling needed by her and seen. yukiko sees chie as her prince charming. there’s SUCH romantic subtext here on both their sides. i really think chie’s shadow points out all these things because chie’s actually in love with her best friend and wasn’t aware that was what she felt. chie’s shown she’s the worst when it comes to understanding other’s emotions. she’s not very understanding and she’s crass and callous. she’s, to put bluntly, obnoxious, and she knows it and that doesn’t seem to bother her. her lack of empathy would make sense back onto herself.

i feel she saw saki’s shadow and said “wait, my soulmate is a girl?” up until that moment she never realized she could actually like women. the midnight channel rumor begins by chie telling her friends to watch it at midnight on a rainy night because you’ll catch a glimpse of your soulmate. she’s invested by the notion it’s real. i know chie shows attraction to yu right away. but, who doesn’t? literally every single girl has had a crush on yu at one point. it’s canonly shown he makes you question your sexuality. when you’re bought up under the idea you’re only allowed to like men, of course you’re going to think the mysterious and attractive transfer student from the city who is tall, has striking features, intense eyes, and doesn’t say much catches your eye -- he also caught everyone else’s. i don’t think this makes chie bisexual. characters catch feelings for yu, and they discover a deeper part of themselves through those feelings. sexuality is a fluid concept. it can change overtime. yu is never shown to really return anyone’s affections either. he’s downright savage in his rejections. he leaves yumi standing alone in the drama club. chie basically forgot all about yu the moment she heard yukiko was kidnapped and these feelings aren’t shown ever again outside of her link -- which, by the way, is entirely centered around her relationship with yukiko.

chie is actually a very feminine character. i’m not sure where the idea she’s a tomboy came from when she dresses feminine? skirts, cute styles, pins on her clothes. her hair is short, but that’s a ridiculous notion because if she was THAT insecure with her femininity she would grow her hair out. long hair is often revered as a feminine trait.

being athletic does not suddenly make you a tomboy. chie just likes training and working out. she lifts weights, has workout gear and equipment, she’s into clubs, and i think the girls soccer club would be up her alley with how hard she can kick. chie really has a perfect blend of masculine and feminine qualities. she doesn’t strike me as someone who knows how to apply makeup, but that doesn’t mean she’s against wearing it. she make yosuke look like a joke in drag. i feel that’s half intentional and half unintentional considering it looks pretty sloppy. her room is shown to have cute stickers, plushies, movie posters on her wall -- very teenager. she’s just a girl who likes kung-fu. that’s one of her titles even. the parts of her link that express the idea she isn’t feminine are once with a grasshopper landing on her back and nanako picking it off. she has a positive reaction when yu tells her she’s feminine. it’s almost like: hell yeah i am, i’m a girl aren’t i? and the other times are with the one guy who wants to ask yukiko out. chie often gets jealous of guys giving yukiko attention because, i believe, she just wants yukiko’s attention for herself and doesn’t like the idea of competition. many don’t have the nerve to approach yukiko because they either strike out or chie’s right around the corner coming to yell at them to back off. this isn’t really picking at chie’s insecurities. it’s picking at how he’s someone who doesn’t know or understand yukiko. he even insults yukiko’s laugh and said that’s chie rubbing off on her and she was better off depressed. chie gets angry and protective over this and tells him flat out to back off and to stay away from yukiko. i really fail to see where people get the tomboy ideology from. none of these things will make you a stereotypical tomboy. the notion is INCREDIBLY insulting that she’s boxed in by this when she’s shown to have characteristics of the opposite. she’s rough around the edges, but she’s soft inside. ice is her element, it makes sense. she has many male friends, too. but she also has female friends. chie’s popular. she isn’t all that graceful, she’s outspoken and blunt. but i can’t see her objecting to doing more girl-ish things or ever refusing to hang out with the other girls in the group either. they’re all shown to be close.

chie’s probably the only IT member i can see who wouldn’t have a dungeon manifested. we all know it’d be a bruce lee inspired movie type deal based off her favorite trial of the dragon movie. her insecurities are so normal. she is the most normal character in the group. she works great for an early shadow fight because, after saving yukiko, her problems are worked out. yosuke says they seem closer than ever now and they both seem happier. yukiko’s link is understanding her place in the world and the importance of it. and chie’s is just wanting to be with yukiko and protect those she cares about.

Tomoe was especially beautiful, with white skin, long hair, and charming features. She was also a remarkably strong archer, and as a swordswoman she was a warrior worth a thousand, ready to confront a demon or a god, mounted or on foot. She handled unbroken horses with superb skill; she rode unscathed down perilous descents. Whenever a battle was imminent, Yoshinaka sent her out as his first captain, equipped with strong armor, an oversized sword, and a mighty bow; and she performed more deeds of valor than any of his other warriors.

i don’t believe for one second tomoe’s aesthetics are based on chie’s want to be more feminine. as, stated above, the insecurity isn’t even there tbh. it’s only there as chie’s afraid to lose yukiko, with deep implications she has romantic interest in yukiko. i believe tomoe’s features are entirely based off of her affections for yukiko. her shadow puts such heavy weight on the exact traits that tomoe has in likeness to her. exceptionally beautiful with porcelain skin, long dark hair, and charming features. yukiko’s character, even in the concept art, was always going to be based off of a traditional asian beauty. tomoe has both yukiko and chie’s traits. tomoe also wears red lipstick on her visor, and who’s signature color do we know happens to be red? yukiko.

tomoe has concepts of chie as well. she’s a blend of the both of them. yukiko inspires chie to be who she is. chie looks up to yukiko as her hero. tomoe having muscles and abs are a show of strength and masculinity that play on chie’s will to protect those she loves and her athleticism. her outfit looks like the kill-bill jumpsuit. bruce lee also wore one just like this. it’s where the idea originated from to give the bride hers.

#( ooc. )#( headcanon. )#long post tw #oof ive had this in mind for so long and it's probably a jumbled mess #but god if i don't love how important these girls are to each other #and idk why no one wants to see how special yukiko is to chie #atlus actually does a good job of showing the coding of these because so many would relate to that #also how common is it to fall for a childhood friend and worry they'll leave you if they know the truth?#p4 said let there be gays

3 notes · View notes

nomoregoldfish · 3 years

Text

I Promised You The Moon rant

Just binged it and this was from the episode by episode reaction/discussion with my partner in crime @glossyboy.

First of all, Oab stole the show, singlehandedly, which he's not supposed to. I don't think anyone expected it including himself. In the very top post when I searched his name on tumblr, he said this lol

But the truth is he played one hell of "villain" that required a very nuanced performance and he delivered it in a believable and graceful manner. Jai became the catalyst of the entire season and his rather complicated relationship with Teh was the highlight of part 2.

EP 1

From the very beginning it's clear that part 2 is very much a Teh's story rather than a balanced story about two young people's journey as a couple in the next chapter of their lives. It makes me uncomfortable they made Oh-aew clingy and pessimistic without giving him any character development.

The best part is probably the opening scene where they went paper-rock-scissors to decide who's gonna buy condoms. It felt authentic, the expectation, the hesitation, the mischievous act, all fits their characters well. Other times ep 1 was more like two adult kids playing house, literally in an empty giant ass upper middle class apartment.

EP 2

It's great that they poked the femininity vs. masculinity issue through Oh-aew, but stopped right there at the surface. Missed a perfect opportunity to go head-to-head with the controversial topic, start a debate, crush the stigma of femininity, bring something new, be a real game changer of the BL genre, and most importantly give Oh-aew some concrete character development. Part 1 showed us a gay character that's very comfortable with his sexuality and femininity, that's almost revolutionary in Asia, not as a comic relief but a leading role. Oh-aew questioned his own sexual identity once in that bra wearing scene, it's straight out of comfort zone, BOLD, and transgressive. So I expected more from part 2.

That's it? And they're already sophomores? Can't believe Oh-aew's character has been marginalized like this. It's pathetic.

But I love the brutally honest conversation at the end where Teh vented his rage and despair regarding his frustration of acting. He was acting like a dick because he's disappointed, and scared. Teh again was not afraid of showing vulnerability, making the reconciliation very realistic and touching.

EP 3

Dare I say I freaking love ep 3! The unresolved (partially sexual, but not entirely) tension between Teh and Jai was over the roof! And the built-up to their kiss was very authentic, which paled Teh and Oh-aew's much sidelined storyline, including the long anticipated sex scene (still can't believe it happened right after Jai explicitly instructed Teh to do it after the two spent a whole night bonding, like wow! Totally TRANSGRESSIVE and to some extent, kinky.) Teh looked up to the senior, idolized him, wanted to be good for him and make him proud, thirsted for the validation from him, which was mixed with affections. The workshop diary was a brilliant idea to let them open up to each other and eventually bring them close. This was what a meaningful arc of a story looked like. By contrast, there isn't a single moment between Oh-aew and Teh in part 2 that made me go "Damn it's soooooo hot!"

I know Jai/Teh wasn't the endgame but I appreciate the storyline so much. It's a very bold move considering it broke the over-glorified "one true love in one's life" fantasy of its target audience, mostly young cis women. The popular narrative of "you can only love one person through your life/one true love" in romance fictions/chick flicks was totally smashed. And it wasn't written just to stir up things between Teh and Oh-aew, it wasn't a silly fling. Instead, it's meaningful, complicated, natural, and realistic, delivered by nuanced and excellent acting from two young actors. It's hilarious that fans hate Jai with a passion and call him names.

And big news, Jai is bi?! Bravo! He's radiating bi vibes since his first appearance.

I kind of gave up at this point, the season wouldn't do Oh-aew any justice. Like my partner in crime pointed out, the costume design literally threw some "incongruous female fashion pieces" on Oh-aew, made him dye his hair red, without...making any actual point of his personality or his character development. Wardrobe was supposed to make a point in storytelling. Yes, PP wearing pink is cute, and? There's nothing else for Oh-aew. Unfortunately he's reduced to this sulky, crying, and wronged partner in a failing relationship.

EP 4

Oab again was killing it. The tension between Jai and Teh...from the rehearsal in front of Oh-aew to the dressing room pep talk, was incredibly intense and hot AF.

Was it a manipulative relationship after all? Oab was so good at conveying a character with many faces. Jai's a mentor to Teh, also a good friend, their relationship was genuine. He's also ambitious with his own goals, he used, challenged, provoked Teh in a way that benefited them both. It made sense the title of part 2, I Promised You The Moon, was from Jai's script. He promised Teh what the junior wanted the most, a bright future in acting. Teh's unconventional and unspoken feelings for Jai was the best part of the entire season in terms of creative writing, it's complicated, fragile, delicate and completely heartbreaking.

The after talk in the hallway was so well-written. It's funny (Teh joking about playwrights always write about their EXs is gold), intimate yet meticulously controlled, no one lashed out or wept. Both knew what they signed up for and Jai particularly made it clear about his motive and the purpose of the "special workshop" beforehand (or right away.) Yet it's no one's fault that Teh got carried away. He's younger, he's immature, he's more into it, it's totally natural. It's so romantic when Teh's singing karaoke in the bar with Oh-aew, yet he couldn't help but desperately staring at Jai on the floor, knowing he and the man who just turned him down were never gonna happen, they were done, but he's still madly attracted to him and his talent. He fancied Jai, at least the idea of Jai, a playwright, a director, someone knew him better than himself. That hurt beautifully.

EP 5

Teh/Oh-aew endgame at this point was pretty meaningless. Oh-aew as a leading character never got any solid character development over a span of four years. What happened between Jai and Teh wasn't just "cheating", though they surely made it look that way, like Teh's empty promise of "I won't see him again after the show ends". No matter how Oh-aew and Teh eventually reconciled, there's no emotional connection, no sparkle anymore between the couple.

But I knew for a fact they had to. Otherwise it's too much of a risk financially for the series. The creators had to take the easy way out like most traditional romances—one of the most contrived and formulaic trope where the male leading character made a mistake (usually cheating) and realized he's wrong, he deeply hurt the female leading character (Oh-aew was merely a girl substitute in part 2), then he completely changed for hell knew what reasons, started doing every nicest thing in the world to try to "win" the female character back. It has been feeding the emotionally-deprived cis female readers/audience who are frustrated with heterosexual relationship irl for decades. The formula that made romance outsell other genres of fictions combined in the 60s and 70s still sells today, under the name of boys' love. It's pathetic to see Oh-aew confess to Bas that he always "lost" to Teh. Love shouldn't be some kind of game or competition, there isn't winner or loser in love. Love is spontaneous. Oh-aew didn't lose because Teh developed feelings for someone else, and he didn't win when Teh begged him for reconciliation. People change, people move on.

And as predicted, they went for it. The ending was so absurd and tedious.

Overall, Jai's probably the hardest villain to play, he needed to be REALLY GOOD to be "the bad guy", to make his role conceivable. Oab absolutely nailed it with his talent and experience. He's not even my type or extremely good looking yet I'm 100% SOLD. I immediately re-watched the scene of him kissing Teh back hungrily at the end of ep 3 like I used to re-watch Teh/Oh-aew's steamy make out session at the end of episode 3 part 1. Coincidence?

I like some parts of both seasons for the same reason, each challenged and tried to break some outdated/contrived narratives in the BL genre. Part 1 took on the sexuality taboo by showing two same sex characters sexually attracted to each other, no more "I'm not into boys, I just happened to fall for someone of the same gender" or "pure love" bullshit. By staying true to the characters' sexuality and actually showing it with explicit, intense (and beautifully shot) scenes, the gay characters were normalized. They weren't just pure and innocent, no one was. And it created two of most unconventional gay characters in Asian pop culture, Oh-aew, a beautiful boy who's very comfortable with his own sexuality and femininity, not passive at all, taking initiative to pursue what he wanted; and Teh, a sensitive, caring and vulnerable boy who cried a lot, he's confused but also sweet and brave.

Part 2 tackled the "You can only love one person through your life" trope with a very nuanced story of "cheating". Yet neither carried out what they started. Part 1 fell short of a revolutionary piece that stayed true to "adolescent sexual turmoil", dismissing bisexuality and becoming a typical unrealistic BL fantasy in the end. And Part 2, ugh, forced a "happy ending" that almost no one digs. I understand it's extremely difficult and risky to disrupt the established norms of a genre. But sometimes being transgressive and progressive could be the same thing. A story, an artwork, has to challenge something in order to create something new and compelling.

#i promise you the moon #i told sunset about you #ipytm #oab oabnithi #billkin #pp krit #rant post #asian lgbtq dramas #lgbtq #i promised you the moon

17 notes · View notes

emeraldyke · 4 years

Note

i just realized that you’re a they/them lesbian and you don’t have to answer this if it seems rude or makes you uncomfortable, but i genuinely don’t understand how non-binary lesbians, like, exist? because isn’t the point of being a lesbian is that it’s a woman loving other women? so if you don’t identify as a woman, shouldn’t a different labeled be used for you? please tell me what i’m not getting. i haven’t been able to find anything helpful online and idk who to ask

Hey no worries my dude, it’s not something I’m bothered about answering! TL:DR my gender is lesbian!

Long version: So basically, the way I experience gender is not the same as that of a cis woman, and for the most part, I only think of myself as a woman in the context of loving other women.

When I am by myself, when I don’t have a crush, and especially when I am in the presence of men, I do not consider myself a woman and I do not feel like a woman. However, when I see a pretty girl, or I have a crush on a woman, or I am in a woman’s only space (specifically queer women, though; if I’m in a space with just straight girls, I feel so out of place like I am not one of them in the sexuality or gender sense) I then can see myself as a woman. I know I made a joke post about it a bit ago, but long story short “I am only a woman when convenient to the plot” if that makes sense? I’m a woman only when it means I’m a lesbian, basically.

Now, how can this exist, you ask; well let me tell you! Since gender and sexuality are separate from each other, ones sexuality doesn’t always have to match their gender. Now of course, lesbian being such a hyper-specific term does not necessarily lend itself to this separation, but I don’t think it entirely disallows it either. My gender is linked to my sexuality, personally, because I only experience gender when I experience sexuality; for other people it might be the complete opposite! I consider my “gender” to be lesbian because the way I view it is so intrinsically tied with my sexuality, there isn’t really a better term for what I am, in my opinion.

I personally consider myself a lesbian because I do not experience attraction to men, or masculine non-binary folks, and my attraction focuses on specifically women and feminine-presenting non-binary folks. My pronouns are they/them because that’s what I feel comfortable with in most situations, however I am sometimes ok with women referring to me as she (I don’t feel comfortable with men using “she” for me, but that’s a lot to get into right now lol) pronouns don’t denote gender, and gender is often much more complex than pronouns alone can explain.

To note, my experiences are not exactly the same as other non-binary lesbians, so hearing from varied sources is always a good thing, but I know not everyone is totally up for digging into the minutae of their relationship with gender, and that’s fine too. Read what people say about themselves, and learn from as many sources as possible, but don’t expect people to drop everything and explain themselves (that goes for most things too; some people enjoy teaching, some dont, and you gotta respect that!)

Thanks for reaching out and asking about this in such an open manor- I’m more than happy to explain these things and educate people on topics like these! I hope this was informative and I hope you take this information and use it with compassion and understanding. Hope this helps!

#ask me things #long post #nb lesbian #gender discussion #breakin out all my lesbian studies discussion techniques #might as well pin this too #for reference

86 notes · View notes

thejakeformerlyknownasprince · 4 years

Note

Speaking about disability in fiction, would you say Toph from a:tla is one of the best written disabled character? Is there anything that could've been improved about her character?

DEAR FUCKING GOD do I love Toph. I would humbly submit to have Lady Toph “The Blind Bandit” “The Runaway” “Greatest Earthbender of All Time” “Inventor of Metalbending” Beifong harvest my organs to achieve eternal life if such a thing were possible. There are a ton of things that Avatar: the Last Airbender does really well when characterizing Toph, and a few I wish they’d done differently. [PLEASE NOTE: I am nondisabled, so if I err, please tell me so.]

Is she one of the best-written disabled characters?

She’s certainly a damn cool character whose disability informs but does not define her. I can’t really say if she’s “the best” or one of, because I haven’t read everything, but I can say that I really like her.

First of all, her story is intersectional AS FUCK. Toph’s gender, her disability, and her social class are so inextricably linked that there’s no analyzing any single element in a vacuum. She’s all about being tough and independent. Partially that’s about being underestimated because of her disability. Partially that’s about being commodified because of her gender. Partially that’s about being privileged due to her upper-class upbringing. All three interact to inform her identity.

“Tales of Ba Sing Se” shows that blindness bars Toph from certain aspects of femininity — she can’t perform the traditional motions of making herself up, attracting young men, being pretty and delicate — which causes her to embrace a more accessible masculine identity. “The Runaway” shows that Toph enjoys femininity as well as masculinity, but that she struggles to build nurturing relationships when she’s concerned with appearing weak, and that that sometimes leads her to cross ethical boundaries. “The Chase” and “Bitter Work” are all about how Toph values her independence above all else — because she’s had to struggle against her gender and disability influencing others’ perceptions, but also because she’s had the privilege to avoid helping others due to her social class. In “The Ember Island Players” she loves being represented by a big tough strong man, but she also clearly associates masculinity with power in a way that becomes troubling when contrasted with Aang’s horror at being played by a woman. Etcetera.

Even the whole Earth Kingdom’s role as a sort of middle rung of imperialism – less powerful than the Fire Nation, more powerful than the Water Tribes and Air Nomads — informs both the relative strictness of its gender roles and the ability of individual Earth citizens to subvert those roles. Toph’s identity, like the identities of the other Avatar characters, is inextricably linked to her position in society.

Secondly, Toph has a lot of the features of a complex and agentic character, and her disability is neither ignored nor centralized. She’s often right, as when she becomes the first person to trust Zuko and the only person capable of making Aang an earthbender. She’s often wrong, as when she tries to justify theft with a “they started it” argument or belittles Sokka for being a non-bender. She’s often somewhere in between, as when she chooses to let Appa get taken by sandbenders in order to protect her friends or gets into screaming matches with Katara over matters of procedure.

There’s also the fact that Toph interacts with certain environments differently based on her blindness, drawing attention to (in)accessible aspects of those environments the others wouldn’t have necessarily noticed. She finds sand and wood flooring inconvenient, she hates navigating water and ice, and she initially avoids walking on metal. Although she’s not a big fan of flying, she mostly adapts as long as her friends actually remember that she can’t navigate when they’re on Appa’s saddle.

When conflicts do occur with the environment, Toph puts the onus on the environments and on other people to adapt or help her to adapt. She’s amused and annoyed when Sokka tries to fake correspondence between her and Katara, or stupidly asks why she doesn’t like libraries. She rips the bottoms off of her shoes. She calls attention to her inability to do things like scan the ground while flying when her friends are at risk of forgetting. She plays into others’ assumptions to try and get onto ferries or get away with breaking the law.

Another thing I like: the art style for Toph avoids the trap of “draw sighted person, change eye color, call it a day.” She doesn’t turn to face people most of the time when she’s talking to them, but also doesn’t seem totally clueless as to their relative locations. She gets the lay of the land by stomping her feet or pressing a hand against the ground, not turning to “look” in various directions. She doesn’t bother to keep her hair from blocking her eyes, because her bangs don’t interrupt any sight lines. She’s neither a comically blind character who apparently can’t navigate at all with sound or touch, nor a dramatic “blind” character whose every action comes off as those of a sighted character. Toph repeatedly mentions that she doesn’t get the value in sight, clapping back at the assumption that of course she’d want to be nondisabled.

[Image description: A screenshot from “The Chase,” which shows Toph shouting at Katara, with her face turned away from Katara. Toph is pointing in anger, making it clear that she’s addressing Katara and that she knows Katara’s location relative to herself based on Katara’s voice.]

One last small but important victory for Avatar: it passes the Fries Test. It has two or more disabled characters — I can explain why Zuko counts as disabled if anyone’s not sure — who survive to the end of the story without being cured, and who have their own narratives rather than existing primarily to educate nondisabled characters. As a bonus, they have at least one conversation with each other about something that isn’t disability-related. The Fries Test is meant to be a minimum standard for representation, much like the Bechdel Test, but it’s still nice to know that Avatar passes.

[Image description: A screenshot from “The Ember Island Players,” which shows Zuko and Toph sitting on the floor in a hallway of the theater, talking about the play and about Zuko’s uncle.]

Is there anything that could’ve been improved about her character?

If I ruled the world, or at least the Avatar writers’ room, I’d start with two changes. One’s small-ish, one’s big and controversial.

The small-ish change: tweak Toph’s narrative to make her earthbending super-abilities less directly counter to her blindness. As it is, she has shades of a superpowered supercrip: a disabled character from SF whose superpower primarily acts to nullify their disability, thereby giving them the lived experience of a nondisabled person for most or all of the narrative. Toph is definitely not an egregious example — she’s not Daredevil, who can use his superpowers to read handwritten papers, navigate unfamiliar environments, “feel” colors, detect tiny gestures, and shoot guns. She does embody experiences with blindness like disorientation when flying and frustration with hanging posters. She just also has several instances of not experiencing blindness when she (as she puts it) “sees with earthbending.” I’m not sure what that tweak would look like, precisely, but I’d like to see one all the same.

The bigger change: I’d cast a different voice actor. Jessie Flower is, based on what little I can find on Wikipedia or IMDB, not blind or visually disabled. Disability rights activists are right now fighting hard against the trend of “cripping up,” wherein nondisabled actors use mimicry or makeup to pretend to have disabilities on TV and in the movies. Avatar doesn’t go that far, because it doesn’t have Jessie Flower onscreen in (for instance) contacts that mimic blindness. However, it nevertheless does not cast a blind actor for the role. The issue here is that disabled actors are almost never allowed to play nondisabled roles… and disabled actors are also almost never allowed to play disabled roles either. By failing to find a blind voice actor, the show denied that opportunity to a less-privileged talent.

The Guardian compares the issue to the way that cis actors of the wrong gender are too-often cast in trans roles, men used to play female characters onstage, and white actors used to play black characters in American movies. I never know how much those comparisons make sense, because among other things they completely ignore intersections of those identities. But I also think that it’s sometimes the best way to help people understand why excuses like “but it’s haaaaaaarrd to find blind female actors of Asian descent” don’t hold water.

And here’s where I go from “slightly controversial” to “extremely controversial” and might have to enter Witness Protection. Avatar is getting a live-action adaptation in a few months. I predict that it will cast a nondisabled actor to play Toph. And I predict that the same voices which (rightly!) raised such a cry against “racebent” white actors playing Aang and Katara will be completely silent on the topic of “abilitybent” actors playing Zuko and Toph. I’m saying this on Tumblr partially to get this statement out there:

I am an Avatar: the Last Airbender fan who will ONLY support the live-action show if it casts disabled actors to play disabled characters.

I’m saying it partially because I hope to be proven wrong, either because a blind actress will be cast as live-action Toph or at the very least because Avatar fans will object when a sighted actress is cast. I’m also saying it because I think that fans can and should protest responsibly when marginalized voices are erased by beloved works of fiction. Will casting a blind actress require more “work” to make the set accessible? Probably. Will casting a blind actress perhaps necessitate more CGI for fight scenes than using a sighted one? Maybe. Will it be worth it to cast a blind actress anyway, so that a girl with the lived experience of Toph can portray her on screen and actually get the chance to break into an industry that bars most blind girls from participating? YES.

#toph beifong #avatar #atla #avatar the last airbender #nothing to do with animorphs #disability studies #disability representation #blindness #atla criticism #intersectional feminism #long post #atla meta #anonymous #asks

898 notes · View notes

faecaptainofdreams · 4 years

Photo

I do not own Marvel. Yes, Wade drew this with crayon. Marvel HC: www.deviantart.com/foxdragonlo… Peter HC: www.deviantart.com/foxdragonlo… Wade HC: www.deviantart.com/foxdragonlo… If you don't like this ship i don't care. Don't talk to me about it, find something you do enjoy. If you're into it, then thanks for stopping by! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- TW: strong language, mature themes ~~Humble Start~~ When Peter was 19, he met 25-year-old Wade in January when the merc was teaming up with the Avengers to help him find his target, who happened to be involved in something the Avengers were trying to undo. When the men first shook hands and Peter introduced himself, he removed his mask, to which Wade suddenly replied "Hot DAMN! What are you, a Disney prince?!" Peter, startled, backed away, and Tony urged Peter to put his mask back on. As it was, Spiderman and Deadpool got along. Before they all parted ways (with the problem resolved and Deadpool having gotten his man), the latter thought it might be fun to pop in once in a while and visit the Avengers. While the others drily insisted that he don't do that, Spidey thought Deadpool could be a potentially good friend. Despite Tony's aversion to it, Peter gave Wade his number and suggested they hang out sometime. Wade showed up a couple weeks later after having texted Peter off and on. Still shy about his appearance and preferring to not be seen at a lower profile, he came to the facility wearing fingerless gloves, concealing clothing, and his Deadpool mask. After he and Peter hung out the first couple of times, the younger of them asked if Wade would let him see his face. With lots of self-deprecating jokes, Wade said no. Sometimes Peter would go meet up with Wade and go mess around with him, and soon enough he introduced the assassin to his friends, Ned and MJ. They all talked to each other regularly, forming a tight little friend group. Wade sometimes felt like he didn't belong with them, like he was too old to be their friend, but they all had the same childish sense of humor. And given how intelligent the younger trio was, they felt mature to him. Many times, Wade forgot that he was older, even if it was only by a couple of years. As months passed, the Avengers got used to Wade's presence and didn't take much issue with Peter hanging out with him. It was innocent (although Tony loathed the sex jokes and vulgarity, especially when it was directed at his boy). It was clear that Peter had a vastly different moral compass and a much more sensible head on his shoulders, and was not going to be influenced by Wade's mercenary ways. He was trusted with the friendship. ~~The Crush~~ Wade fancied Peter from the start. The second the mask had come off, Wade was smitten, but he figured it would go away or just stay stagnant. He'd been attracted to and thirsted after people loads of times (hence all his sexual escapades), but he was never the settle-down type. He joked about Peter being attractive and sexy and made all kinds of quips, but given he was so crass by nature, Peter never took it too seriously. He did believe Wade thought he was attractive, but he knew he was like this with multiple people and figured it was harmless. Which it was, but he didn't understand that it was serious. The more Wade stuck around and the more he got to know the Spiderman, the more his feelings grew. He eventually had to face facts and accept that he didn't just like Peter for his body -- he liked his character. The boy was an absolute magnet; bright and sunny, happy, forgiving, generous, kind, merciful, hilarious, intelligent, and non-judgmental. He was the ultimate package. Wade also knew he was bisexual and knew that if he really worked up to it, asking Peter out wasn't out of the question or too far-fetched. What was far-fetched, to his mind, was the idea that Peter would ever say "yes." And even if he did say yes, was that fair to the Ironman's golden child? Wade was a self-sustaining disaster with baggage so heavy even Spiderman couldn't pick it up. As far as he was concerned, it was best to keep his feelings to himself and spare Peter the misery. What he didn't realize was Peter was starting to notice him, too. By Autumn, Wade sorely opened up to Weasel about his feelings. --- "Ew, do you like...love him?" "Maybe." "Gross. What are you gonna do?" Wade shrugged. "Nothing, same as usual. He doesn't need my insanity in his life, he's too kind and innocent." "But you wanna fuck him, right? Maybe just try to do that." "No, Jesus! Are you even listening? Peter's not that kind of guy, and even if he was into it, I can't take advantage of him like that." Weasel's face scrunched in mild disgust. "God, you have it bad for him..." "Yeah. It's like, he's a total bro, but fuckable. He's soft but strong, masculine but feminine, fierce but graceful." " " "He's the kind of guy you take on like fifteen dates, buy flowers and candy, get one of those stupid little Hallmark cards with some sappy bullshit saying how much the sender loves him. Then, you fuck him. Not at your place, but at his place, so he's more comfortable, and only after you've made him spaghetti and chocolate-covered strawberries, by candle light. You fuck gently. Passionately, but with strength, but you don't wanna hurt him. But he's secretly a sex tiger under the sheets, and it kinda scares you, but you love it, but you're still afraid to fuck him any other way than gently." "I feel like this is a fantasy you've had for a while." "No, of course not." "So...he's your friend, you want to fuck him, but you don't wanna just fuck him because that would be taking advantage of him. Because you'd rather have a relationship with him, but you don't wanna have a relationship with him because you think he deserves better, but you're gonna keep hanging out with him and torture yourself. Is that... I mean, am I close?" "Like a Hawkeye arrow through a nutsack with a target drawn on it." "Ow. I think my left testicle just rose back inside of me in fear." "Balls are very perceptive." "Okay, well here's my advice." Wade learned forward. "... You're fucked." "Thanks, I totally needed help figuring that out." "Who is the guy, anyway?" "...Peter Parker..." "Pete-- like Spiderman Peter Parker?" "Yup." "How the fuck...?" "I know." "I feel like I saw his face on the news last year when he got all discovered, but I don't remember. You got a picture?" "Yeah," Wade grumbled while reaching in his pocket for his phone. "Heh, 'course you do, you sick-o." After glaring at his friend, Wade pulled up a picture of Peter and zoomed in on his smiling face. "WHOA, holy MOSES, that guy is good looking!" "I know." "He looks like a stallion and a buck had sex with an Irish setter!" "Yeah, told ya. Fierce, but graceful." "I've always been a pussy-man, but I gotta say... He's making me question my sexuality." "He has that affect on people." "That is MAJORLY out of your league." "Thank you." Wade put his phone away. "How old is he?" "Nineteen." "Whoooa, a little on the young side, huh?" "Just a little, but he's mature for his age." "..." "...That sounded a little creepy, I take that back." --- Wade began an off-and-on effort of keeping Peter at arm's length. He went through periods of texting and hanging out with him less, but whenever it was clear that Peter could tell something was up, he snapped back into the picture. He couldn't bear to make Peter worry or feel as though he'd done something wrong. This went on for a couple of months. Peter too, was beginning to feel a little bit of romantic sting. Wade hooked up with a couple of people over the months, including Vanessa. There was a brief period where the two of them copulated like rabbits, and that was with the ex-prostitute knowing that Wade had feelings for someone. In the merc's mind, maybe he could get his needs out of his system, but it didn't work. If anything, he felt emptier after each fling. Peter was attracted to Wade before he even realized he was. Always seeking him out, making sure their friendship was solid, feeling a constant need to have a hand on him in one way or another. He also played into some of Wade's lewd jokes and would tease him. Then there was the dancing and singing, of course, which only got more intense as time went on (a natural instinct of the jumping spider to try and woo a mate through display). Tony and Steve began to notice the men getting closer, and Tony was very unhappy. Steve convinced him to stay quiet and let Peter figure it out. In late Fall, Peter turned 20. Wade was there for his party, as were Ned and MJ. It was a lot of fun! Come December, Wade turned 26. He'd tried another couple of times to get away from Peter again, but the boy wouldn't let him go. They were like a binary system of stars, unable to pull away from each other, constantly drawn back into one another's path by an unseen force. For how long could this go on before they collided? And when they did, would they blow up and break apart, or make one bigger, more beautiful star? ~~Spoken Interest~~ By January, Peter came to terms with his own crush, and secretly told Ned about it. For the next month and a half, the boys gabbed about it, and Ned found it adorable and kind of funny. Peter said he wanted to ask Wade out, but was nervous that Wade wouldn't be interested. "Well you're not gonna know unless you ask," said Ned. Peter flirted a little more with Wade, but it mostly came across awkwardly. It basically felt like he was just humiliating himself over and over again, but Wade was noticing the difference in him. Regardless, he tried to respect the space, and refused to give himself up. In February, Peter asked Wade to hang out with him at a park somewhere and "people watch," since Wade enjoyed that activity. He felt it would be a nice, serene setting to keep Wade's attention and finally admit his feelings. He told Ned about his plan; the latter was exhilarated at the thought, and said he'd be standing by. Peter put on a warm but nice outfit and drove off to their spot to talk. Even though it was casual as always, they could both sense tension. They sat and chatted for a while, and with a racing heart, Peter finally found the right moment to confess. --- "Hey, so... I've kinda been wanting to talk to you about something." "Hamburgers." "I... What?" "Hamburgers! They're weird, right? I mean, ham comes from pigs, and beef comes from cows. Hamburgers are made with cow meat, but we call them ham-burgers." Wade threw his hands up, head rolling about. "The fuck is up with that??" "O-oh, hah, I guess it sounds more appealing than...beef...burgers...?" Wade nodded thoughtfully. "Hm. Yeah, sounds kinda naughty." Peter could hear Wade's grin, and he stifled a laugh. His own smile was more earnest, but his desire flitted behind it. "Like beef curtain, or beef stick--" "Wade." "Yeah?" "Look, um..." He turned to face his company better, now getting nervous. "You and I are...really good friends, right?" "Why yes, broski dear." "Hah, well... It's just... Ahh, I don't wanna say anything and...mess that up." "...Well, what do you wanna say...?" There was a long silence. "...Okay -- okay, total honesty... Wade, I..." He drew in a deep breath. "I like you..." They stared at each other. After a long silence, the older male playfully slapped Peter's arm. "I like you too, beef buddy! ... Yikes, wow, see? Beef is just a naughty word." Peter blinked, thoughts spinning in his head a mile a minute. Wade knew what he really meant, but he couldn't begin to believe that in its suddenness. He was bracing for Peter to call him out on his own crush and possibly disown him, but this threw him for a loop. "N... N-no, no Wade, I mean... I like you...as more than a buddy, or a bro..." He swallowed. "Or a friend..." He rubbed his hands together, slowly and tensely, brown orbs wide while looking at Wade. The cold white eyes of Wade's mask pierced back at him. "...Oh..." "A-and... I just thought, m-maybe, if...you don't think it's weird, or if -- I don't know, if maybe you liked me too, we could...date...?" There was another long pause. This time, Wade understood for certain. When he looked forward to contemplate, stunned expression hidden by the mask, Peter looked off and around, his heart sinking. There were times when Wade was genuinely difficult to read, and this was one of them. Wade was getting his wish, it was like the start of his fantasy had come true! All he had to do was agree to it. "Uh, I don't think we should do that." He regretted it the second he said it. Peter felt his heart drop, and his face begin to turn red with shock and embarrassment. "Oh," he croaked while looking down at his lap. Wade's answer stunned him. When the merc spoke, he tried to bring it back to a place of casualty in the hopes of removing the heavy feeling from the air. "Look, don't get me wrong, you've heard me talk about ya. You're precious, and I'd be beside myself to fuck your brains out." Peter almost smiled, but the desperation for answers overpowered the natural response to do so. Wade continued. "But you're romantic, you need stability. I'm a one-night stand kind of guy, friends-with-benefits and all that. You're not really about that life, right? I mean, come on. You wouldn't sleep with me without getting to know me, right?" Peter swallowed something dry and thick. Looking away, the hope for this to go anywhere withdrew from his gaze, and he shook his head. "No..." Even Wade was at a loss for words for a moment. He may have turned his head away, but out of the corner of his eye, he could see Peter's heart breaking. He saw his red cheeks, his pinkish eyes. He could feel the sadness, and a lot of it was coming from himself, too. But he pulled it together again and lightly slapped the back of his hand against Peter's shoulder. "Eyyy, come on, this doesn't change anything, right? We're still pals." Peter quickly nodded. He was polite as ever, but the sensation that he had just gotten hit by a train was easy to read. "No -- yeah, yeah yeah yeah, it's -- it's just... It's a little embarrassing, aha, I mean... You know, I..." "Nah, it's not so bad. It's adorable! Like I said, doesn't change a thing. Now when we get past this, I can tease you about thinking I'm a hot piece of ass." Peter did finally crack a small, broken smile and shook his head. He was glad that Wade wanted to be friends, but the damage was done. "...I mean you still wanna be friends, right?" "Absolutely! I just... It's kind of a hard pill to swallow..." "Yeah, I know. You put yourself out there, then get shot down..." With genuine remorse and a strong but hidden wave of self-loathing, Wade laid a hand on Peter's shoulder. "I'm sorry." Peter nodded again and closed his eyes. He felt emotional, but why? Did it really mean that much to him? Staying strong, he glanced at Wade, mustering a hurt smile. "Don't be sorry, you know I prefer honesty. I mean it'd be really stupid to say 'yes' when you don't want that, right?" As if Wade's heart couldn't sink any further. "Yeah..." "Look man, um... It's -- I'm not like mad or anything, you didn't do anything wrong, but... I think I should go home, and just, like...try to process it--" "Yeah! Nothing wrong with that. I'll give you a couple days to uh...reel." "Yeah, I think that sounds good." When they rose to their feet, they both chuckled sadly. In their awkwardness, Peter offered his hand to shake, which Wade accepted uneasily, but eventually pulled Peter into a side hug. "It'll be fine, we'll get past it. You take your time." "K-ay..." With one last hurt smile, Peter left Wade's company. On the way back to his car, he finally let the tears roll. Wade watched him go until his car was out of sight, stunned by his own foolishness. He wasn't stupid; he knew he had made Peter cry. He knew he'd broken his heart, and he hated himself for it. When Wade got to his apartment, he took out his anger on his environment, taking to breaking a lot of things in his living space. --- Peter did his best to get most of his emotions out before he got home, but the sadness and hurt would linger. When he got inside he pretended everything was okay, but it was obvious his mind was elsewhere. Not too long after getting in, he went to his room and called Ned. --- "Hey, what's up? Did you talk to him?" "Yeah." "...Uh-oh. What did he say?" "He said 'no.'..." "Awww man, Peter, I'm sorry. Did he say why?" Peter tried to keep his sniffles quiet, but Ned could hear them anyway. "Yeah, u-um... He said that...you know, he's a one-night-stand kind of guy, and that I'm -- we're -- ... He doesn't...think it would be a good idea, because he just...likes sex, and I'm romantic, so..." "That really sucks, I'm sorry." "Me too..." "...Hey, I rigged my GTA 4 game to get Carmageddon on the 360." Peter continued to hold back his emotions, but only half-cared about Ned's random statement. "Y-eah...?" "Yeah, it's really funny! Can I come over and show you? It should work on your 360." Now understanding, Peter smiled a little. "Yeah, that sounds cool. We could, um... I could make...popcorn, or something." "Awesome! Is now good?" "Sure, uh -- lemme ask Tony first, just to be sure." "Okay. Text me." --- After they said goodbye and hung up, Peter got confirmation from Tony that having Ned over for a few hours would be fine. While on his way to go prepare everything, May found Peter and insisted he tell her what was wrong, as she could tell something was up. Although he'd wanted to keep it hidden from his elders, Peter (naturally) trusted May and knew it was confidential, so he came clean. Seeing her nephew's broken heart, May consoled him and offered a little advice about how to heal up from it, and insisted that they would, yes, go back to being friends in time. ~~SpideyPool~~ In the days passing, Peter and Wade refrained from messaging each other. Peter went about his usual life, including going on regular patrols. He took down a couple of small criminals, helped a few people in minor danger. This always felt good; even the littlest of ways he could help people made his day brighter and his heart fuller. Wade, meanwhile, had spent the days since the rejection in sorrow and self-hatred. He'd smashed a lot of the stuff in his apartment and all but shredded the couch, laying face-down on the tattered furniture in a mess of stuffing, old food scraps, alcohol and the same outfit he'd had on when he last talked to Peter (minus the coat, boots and mask). It had been five days. But on this fifth day, Colossus happened to pop in. He knocked. --- "Wade? You are playing Elvis again. Are you all right?" "AwwwWWW!! I'm not in the mood, Sputnik! Fuck the shit off!" Colossus opened the door and hunched in, turning off Wade's music. "You should really lock door. Wade, you are a mess; what is wrong?" The merc answered him with his face still down and pressed to the couch. "What's wrong is this big metal dildo man keeps showing up at my door even after I tell him to fuck. the. shit. OFF." Colossus looked around, ignoring him. "How do you live like this..." "I'm not living, I'm existing." "Clearly. Is this another episode? Perhaps I should take you back to the mansion again." Wade lifted his head, tired eyes closed. "GOD, no! No more bland-coated walls with old white men all over them and every other X-Man acting like the studio couldn't afford to pay them to even just walk around and pretend they live there." Colossus raised a brow, but ignored him, as he was so used to doing. "Well, if this is not episode, then what is it?" Wade's face flopped back into the couch, pressing in harder than earlier. "Imn mm bmng m thnntl dmshm." "What?" With a heavy groan of aggravation, he sat up entirely, allowing small bags of food trash to spill onto the floor from its position under his body. Colossus winced at the crinkling and crumbs. "It's me being a total dipshit..." "What did you do," he asked tiredly while folding his arms. "I told you I liked some guy, right? Well... Turns out, he liked me, too." "That is good news." "Yeah, it was, until he told me he liked me and I shot him down like a retarded clay pigeon in a Guantanamo Bay shooting range." "..." "I swear to god, it's like while I wasn't looking, the cancer snuck into my brain and made me even stupider." "Why did you turn him down?" "Because -- he's nice, okay? I don't just wanna get in his pants, I want to date him. I want to have a relationship, but he's not the person I should be trying that out with on account of how fucked sideways with a cactus my head is." "On inside, or outside?" When Wade glared up at him, Colossus chuckled. Squinting, Wade lowered his voice. "Are you The Moby? 'Cos I haven't even taken The Great American Challenge yet, and I feel like you're stretching my ass WIDE open." "Eugh! Listen..." Colossus softened up and sat beside him carefully. "You are...different, very rough around the edges. You are afraid that this guy is too good for you." "No, I KNOW he's too good for me. I can't risk screwing up his life." "How do you know that would happen?" "Uh, do I not ruin everything everywhere I go?" "Only when you really mean to. But he likes you too, yes?" "He says he does... I'm not sure why." "Maybe because, in your own strange way, you are charming man. You have a big heart, you care about people -- most of all, him, it seems." "That's why I gotta stay away from him." "No, that is why you must go to him." Wade glanced up at his company. "You must go tell him the truth, give it a second chance. He deserves to know what you are thinking, does he not?" "... No, I don't want to make him more miserable." "If he is miserable, it is only because you have not been honest with him." "...You really think I should do this? You really think I should go over there and just...tell him how I feel?" "Absolutely." "...Just admit that you want me, Colossus." Colossus sighed. "I don't know,..." "Trust me, if you don't do this, then you will never know what could be. You will spend the rest of your life wondering what could have been, your soul will forever be restless." "..." "...Who is it that you are pining for so badly?" Wade's voice almost cracked. "P-eter Parker..." "Peter Parker?? You mean Spiderman???" "Yeah." "OH, he is a VERY good young man... Erh...over eighteen, yes?" "He's twenty." "OH, good." "Like you said, he's very good. He's not...he doesn't deserve all my shit." "You will never know, Wade. Not unless you take risk." "..." "If you try your best, if you let love in, and it is real, then your messy life will work itself out." Wade looked up at Colossus, who then put a caring, large metal hand on his shoulder. "Maximum effort." "...Okay... Maximum effort." --- When Colossus left, Wade showered and started cleaning up. On the sixth morning after their last conversation, Wade called Peter, but the latter was around other people while in the facility. Not wanting to talk to him in front of anyone, he declined the call, but texted Wade saying "Hang on i'll call in a sec." He went to his room and did as was promised, calling Wade back while sitting on his bed. --- "Hey, Spidey!" "Hey, Wade." He sounded a little tired, but was kind and open-minded. "What's up?" "Uhh not much, I was with Tony and Wanda and didn't want to talk in front of them. Just...sitting in my room, now." "Gotcha." "So...did you want something?" "Aww, you're still upset about the other day," he said with an audible smile. Peter sat up, voice more peppy. "No, no, I mean I'm not upset, I'm just... It... 'Upset' is just such a harsh word, um... I'm just kinda sad, you know? It's -- I'm still just trying to...make sense of it all, figure out what's...going on in my head." "I understand." "I'm sorry..." "Why are you sorry?" "I don't know, I just feel bad, I mean this can't be fun for you, either. I just feel really stuck. And -- I told May, but only because she could tell how down I was." "May is nice." "She's the best..." "...I miss you, Pete." "Me too... Ned...rigged his GTA 4 disk to run Carmageddon on the 360." "What?! That's sick as FUCK!" "Yeah... Maybe sometime we could hang out and play it together. It's really funny..." "I'd like that. Or... I could just come hang out with ya right now!" Peter sat up a little more. "Oh, Wade, I don't know, I... I think I still need a little more time to process everything. It's -- I'm still not mad or anything, you're still my friend, it's just kinda hard..." "Oh... Well that's too bad, 'cos I'm right outside your window." "--What??" After Wade's shadow cast onto the wall and got Peter's attention, he quickly looked to the left and saw Wade in the window, waving happily at him before putting the phone back to his ear. Peter tossed his phone down in shock and ran to the window. "Wade!" He opened the glass pane, shivering at the freezing air. "What are you doing?!" "Just felt I needed to come by and clear things up with you." After realizing he was talking pointlessly into his phone, Wade shrugged and tossed it. "Wha--" Peter quickly fired a web at the little computer, snatching it and yanking it into his hand. Wade crawled into Peter's room through the window, and then the latter closed it and handed Wade his phone. "Why would you throw this??" Wade took his phone back and chuckled. "Ewww, now it has webs on it...!" "That's better than being broken!" Wade shrugged the snow off his shoulders. He was in full suit with a beanie on his head over his mask, and a fur coat. "Plungers make really good building-climbing tools, did you know that?" "Eugh, you -- you used plungers to get up here?" "They're all new, it's fine. Well -- except for the one for my right foot, I wouldn't touch that one." Wade slid off his coat and beanie. "Wade, what are you doing here...?" "I wanted to talk to you about the other day." Peter motioned for him to be quiet, then stepped over and locked his door. Turning back to face him, he kept his voice low, and so his visitor did the same. "Okay?" "Look... The thing is, I like you, too. A LOT. I've had it bad for you from the start, Petey, but... It's like I said the other day; you're a nice guy, and--" "Wait, let me just stop you there." He waited. "I know that you like to sleep around, and that's okay. Some people are romantic, and some people aren't, and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not judging you, I think what you do is totally fine." Wade nodded. "But... I'm still not that guy, you know? I still need those things, I'm -- I want a relationship. It's okay that you don't want that, you don't have to explain yourself. But if this is a request to just...fool around, um... I'm...not game for that, I'm sorry." "...Aww, you're so cute," he said happily before roughing Peter's hair lovingly. Peter stood in blank confusion, having no response to that. "I'm not here because I want to have sex with you. I mean, I'd like to, but not like...right now, I mean like in the future, when we've been seeing each other for a little while." "..." "When you asked me out, I said no because I didn't think I was right for you. I still don't, honestly, I mean you should really, just...turn around and run while you have the chance. Because I'm about to ask you something, and I don't have a lot of patience, and I might just blurt it, cut and dry." "Wade, what the hell are you trying to say?" "I'm saying... Will you go out with me...?" Peter stood in total shock, staring blankly at Wade. "......Is that a 'no'? That's probably a wise choice, but I'm gonna...need verbal confirmation. I mean if it's not 'yes,' it's 'no,' because basic principle, but ya know. ...?" He finally blinked and shook his head a little, making an effort to make sure he kept his voice low. "Okay, wait... You do want to go out with me...?" "Yeah. I've wanted to since like, last June." "FFFFFFFF-- Wade...?!?!?" "Yeah... Pathetic, I know." "So why did you say 'no' the other day??" "I told you, because I don't think I'm right for you. I'm super fucked up and you're really nice! You're --" "Shh...!" He lowered his voice to something of a shouting whisper. "You have your whole life ahead of you to meet fucked up people, you should at least have some normal, healthy relationships first...!" "Wade, that's up to me to decide, and I know you think you're like the worst person ever, but you're actually really a good guy...!" "Why are we whispering...?!" "Because if Tony finds out we're even discussing dating he'll throw you to the moon...!" "That would suck...!" "I know...!" They both stood a little taller, each sighing some and looking off before focusing again. They stopped whispering, but remained quiet. "So..." "I'm just saying... I've got a lot of baggage, and problems, and a whirlwind of mind shit that falls out of its little shit-filled cabinet whenever it feels like it. I have LOVED being your friend, but I'm..." "...Yes...?" "...I'm scared of hurting you..." Peter relaxed and took a step towards him. "You're not gonna hurt me." "You don't know that." "And you don't know that you will. But if you think that, but you still had the nerve to come tell me how you feel and ask me out..." Wade looked up at him cautiously. "...Then you must have some sort of faith in it being okay, right?" "..." Peter started to smile. "What if we just tried it? Why don't we just...date...? And if it doesn't work out, then that's okay. We can just be friends. I mean that's what we were working up to being again anyway, right?" "That's how it would have to be. I can't lose you, Spidey, you mean a lot to me." "..." "You're like ice on a burn. You have...the BEST heart. I don't wanna hurt it." "Stuff's gonna hurt me, Wade. That's life, it's okay. If you hurt me, we can get past it." "...You promise?" Peter smiled bigger. "I promise. Hey, who knows? Maybe I'll hurt you or something, pfft." Peter couldn't see it, but Wade was smiling, too. "If you're serious, and this isn't you feeling guilty about saying 'no' or asking for a one night stand... I would love to go out with you. PLEASE, let me go out with you." --- And so it was, they secretly began dating. Wade made arrangements to take Peter out that very afternoon. After Wade left through the window, taking his plungers with him, Peter called Ned in a slight panic. He excitedly explained what happened and told him he needed to prepare himself for the date, and they hung up. When it came to Tony, Peter had to keep quiet. Like before, he didn't tell anyone, including May; he just didn't want anyone to know yet. The first date was just spent with the boys wandering around a nice part of the city, discussing how they liked each other and how long each of them have felt it. Wade explained that he was a mess for the days following his rejection of Peter, and that it took Colossus busting into his apartment and yanking him onto his feet to get him to go talk. He also confessed to having slept with a couple of people, including Vanessa, which Peter was more than fine with. But, he emphasized, Wade really needed to look into STI testing just to be safe. The first date didn't end with kissing or anything randy, and Wade still didn't show Peter his face. Instead, they hugged, and Peter drove back home. The dates following were very similar, with food as part of the equation. They even had a "parkour date," where both got in full suit and leaped around the city, showing their abilities to one another for the sheer sport of it. Peter even held Wade and swung around the city with him on his hip. According to Wade, this was terrifying but romantic. By this time, Peter told May and MJ. After a few weeks, Peter and Wade felt relatively steady. Tony and Steve could tell something was different with Peter when it came to Wade, and Tony had his suspicions from the start. Peter knew that Tony could sense something unusual, but he played around it and acted casually. Tony chose to stay quiet about it. During a date one late afternoon when Peter and Wade were on a harbor, in suit, the sun out after a light rain (yes, it must be that specific), Peter pressed a little harder to see Wade's face. He understood why Wade was shy about it, but kindly argued that it was difficult to date someone he'd known for over a year while still not having a clue what he looked like. Feeling that Peter's reaction could really make or break the potential of their relationship, Wade finally conceded and removed the mask. To his surprise, there was no horror or tension, or even the slightest bit of disgust. He looked a little surprised, briefly raising his eyebrows with a blink, and studied him. He said "Wow," and that was about it. Wade started to make jokes about himself, to which Peter put his arms around Wade and told him he wasn't allowed to insult himself whenever he was in the Spiderman's arms. This became a new theme with them. After a minute of talking, and with Wade allowing his new partner to lightly touch his scarred cheeks, he asked if Peter had anymore requests before the mask went back on. --- "...You could kiss me..." Wade stared at him in light disbelief. "...Or -- or not, it's totally optional. Just a suggest--" As the cliche stands, Wade kissed him, cutting off his sentence. When he pulled away, Peter was stunned and glowing. "O-ohhoh... Okay, I-I don't have a lot of reference, but... That was really good..." "I agree." --- Wade put his mask back on, and the two were smitten. A few days after their first kiss, Peter finally sat down with Tony and Steve and came clean about his recent dating situation. Steve didn't love the idea, and Tony hated it, but the former offered support and simply asked that Peter be careful and trust his instincts. Tony was a tad more chilly with his honesty, but when Peter became insecure, he emphasized that he wasn't angry. He just didn't trust Wade on a romantic level, and feared Peter getting hurt. This gave Peter the opportunity to remind Tony that he was a big boy now, and he could handle making his own mistakes, and was willing to face the consequences of his decisions. It ended on a positive note, but Tony couldn't hide the lack of thrill he had over the new relationship. Weeks turned into months, and things when steady. In their time together, Peter got permission from Tony to make his very own original suit. Given how comfortable he was with Wade, and with the relationship also recently going public, Peter felt the desire to start fresh and switch up his look with a lot more blue. For one thing, the blue complimented Deadpool's vast red and helped him stand out.~ That May, when they'd been going out for about three months, Peter started becoming more bold in his physical interest in Wade. He'd been to the merc's apartment several times as well, and had actually managed to convince him to start cleaning the place up and get some new furniture. He wasn't judgmental; he merely worried for Wade's state of mind and the health hazards, insisting that he might feel better and more confident if he lived in better conditions. This conversation brought Wade to inadvertently mention how he was desensitized to the squalor due to being forced to sit in his own waste and vomit for a while when he had gotten ill at the Mutant Factory. This was one of the most serious things Wade brought up right off the bat, but upon seeing Peter's face stricken with shock and concern, he clammed up. Peter assured him that there was nothing to be ashamed of, and that he appreciated Wade talking to him. The conversation helped Wade feel better, much to his shock, and he agreed that it might be good for him to clean up the apartment. So he did just that. It wasn't spectacular, but the improvement was great, and Wade actually found himself wanting better for how he lived. In June, Peter's physical interests were more clear. They'd discussed sex, but Peter was shy, and Wade was never one to push. But finally, while making out one day, Peter came to the conclusion that he was ready to be intimate. They each went home and planned for Peter to go to Wade's. They each wanted to shower and prepare for it first. Peter brought a small bag with a movie and his suit in it (just in case). He told Tony that they were just going to have a movie date. Tony didn't like it, and insisted Peter also take his iron suit (which is tightly compact into a small shape when dormant like the Ironman suit). Peter obeyed, willing to do anything to help Tony feel more comfortable about him being out and about. At Wade's apartment, the pair chilled for a little while, but Wade was eager to show his company how he'd prepared the bedroom. He led Peter to his room, revealing soft pink and orange shaded string lights pinned up around the walls, nice bedding, and an overall sense of warmth. Needless to say, Peter was very impressed, letting Wade know he did not expect this, and didn't require it in the future. But yes, he absolutely loved it, and knew he would have a good time. When they were done, they both fell asleep in Wade's bed. Tony called around 1 in the morning, asking where Peter was. He was a little upset, but nothing Peter couldn't work around. He apologized and said they were both tired from watching the movie and then playing some video games, so Peter crashed on the couch and forgot to tell Tony he was staying the night. After a little back and forth, Peter reassured him that everything was all right and encouraged him to go back to sleep. He promised to come home early in the morning with a box of donuts as an apology. Tony hesitantly agreed, and left him alone. Once more, the next day, Peter made a point to tell Ned about his escapades. The next few times Peter went to Wade's house, he ended up spending the night. And again, he lied his ass off to Tony, saying they just had a new routine of playing video games until they crashed. Tony knew better, and Peter knew that, but neither were willing to give on the subject. By this time, Peter quietly told aunt May that his relationship with Wade was now very serious. She was excited for him, proud and happy and double checked that he was being safe. Embarrassed and a little exasperated, he confirmed this, and just like that May was back in fun mode. She was able to accept that Peter was grown now, and she was glad to try and guide him through this very impressionable period in his life. The morning after Peter's fifth time with Wade, Colossus visited unexpectedly while the boys were still sleeping. Wade got up and addressed him, completely naked, while Peter stayed back and hurriedly put his clothes on before meekly coming out to greet the metal man. He was shy but thrilled to meet the infamous X-Man. After Peter convinced Wade to at least put on some underwear, they all sat down together and had a chat. Colossus was happy to finally meet Spiderman, and when Peter got home, he told his family about how funny it was to wake up and meet Colossus. Later that day, Tony finally pulled Peter aside and broke down, having a serious discussion with him about the relationship. He asked for full honesty on whether they had become physical, and Peter answered honestly. The talk was civil, as Tony loved Peter too much to ever take out any frustration on him, but his concern was clear. He told Peter he respected that, that Peter didn't need to feel bad about it; he was just making sure everything was okay. Not that it was any of his business, but he considered his family to be his business. Peter didn't mind, so long as Tony stayed cool. The Ironman did confirm that Peter understood the fact that he wasn't going to invite Wade to live with them. Peter agreed. When Tony asked if Peter was thinking about living with Wade, the latter said "no." "So what are you gonna do?" Tony asked. Peter told him that he would just keep doing as they had been; dating, hanging out, and if they wanted to have personal time, Peter would go to Wade's. He told Tony he felt he really loved Wade, and was okay with the fact that he was, in Tony's words, "super fucked up." He understood that he wasn't responsible for Wade's mental health, but that he enjoyed helping him through some of his issues. He understood that trauma like this was a long-haul, and he was willing to at least try. After all, everyone he knew was traumatized, himself included. The conversation helped clear the air a lot for the father-and-son pair, and Tony grew a greater respect for the relationship. A week or so after that conversation, Tony ended up having a talk with Wade. The merc shocked him with his raw honesty about his feelings for Peter, revealing his only intention was to be happy with him without weighing him down. He loved him, and he would do anything for him, including whatever he could to please his family. He understood why everyone flocked to shield Peter; he was different, special. It was then that Tony finally saw an ounce of what Peter saw in Wade, and his respect grew. In August, Peter turned 21 and in December, Wade turned 27. In that time frame, Peter began sneaking Wade into his room sometimes to get physical.~ Not long after Wade's birthday, Tony finally came to grips with the reality that Wade wasn't going anywhere. His relationship with Peter was incredibly strong and steady, and despite Peter having his job, his family and friends and Wade, he'd managed to make it all work. They were mature, and mature together, and Tony wanted Peter to have every opportunity possible to make things a little easier. So as a surprise, he told Peter he was going to allow Wade to move into the facility, even though he wasn't being offered any Avenger titles. He even said he didn't mind if Wade and him shared his bedroom, so long as they weren't mindless sex idiots and kept everyone awake all the time. Stunned, Peter was beyond grateful. Together, everyone gathered up and invited Wade to the facility to make the offer. Wade was uncertain at first, asking if they wanted him to be an Avenger. "GOD no," said Sam. Peter informed him that this had no strings attached, and asked if he was ready to move in with him. Wade said yes, and accepted this very unexpected, beautiful birthday present. In being offered to move in, this was the Avengers fully embracing Wade and adopting him into their weird, messed up family. In time, they would learn to see that Wade was in fact, a good man with a big heart, and become used to his mouth. ~~Love Forever After~~ Living together, it was a dream come true. For the first time in Wade's life, things finally seemed to be on a steady path, and he would do anything to keep it that way. He was happy, he wanted to stay happy, and most of all, he wanted to do well for Peter. With them being together (even before Wade had moved in), Peter helped Wade open up about his past and his feelings. He wasn't judgmental, he wasn't off-put by Wade's mannerisms, weirdness, strange coping habits, random emotional moments, nightmares, or even the nastiest of content regarding his past. He just listened and consoled, and even shielded Wade from the harshness of others. With a guy as wonderful as the friendly neighborhood Spiderman, even though he wasn't perfect, Wade had a tough time feeling like he could give back enough. What he didn't tend to understand was Peter already felt Wade did give back. Wade was a passionate, attentive, caring, thorough lover, and exceedingly generous. He did anything and everything he could for Peter. Aside from just being the best mate he could be, he couldn't think of much else, but it was more than enough. Peter needed him, too. And when Peter had problems, his heart was heavy or he had his own traumatic episodes, Wade was there for him. He applied the very things he'd learned from his love and gave back. After some months living with Peter, Wade had his first serious emotional breakdown related to his trauma. Deadpool, Spiderman, Ironman, Scarlet Witch, and War Machine were out on a mission one night. On a rooftop, after the mission was finished and they had regrouped, Peter was wrapping some things up when a casual conversation started between Wade and the others. The Mutant Factory got brought up, which Wade appeared fine with. He joked casually about what he went through, and the others listened. But at a certain point, after making a comment about his torture that initially caused him to laugh, his laughter suddenly turned to tears. At first the others just went along with it, used to Wade's emotional switches at this point and figuring it would be fine. But when the merc's weeps became sobs and he could no longer stand up, everyone finally realized something was wrong. James stood by Wade and Wanda knelt beside him, clueless as to how to help or what exactly was happening. Tony called Peter to their gathering on the rooftop, and when the Spiderman saw his partner in a heavy heap of tears, he sprung into action. Wanda and James backed away to give Peter the space to console him. He was understandably confused and alarmed by the development, but stayed calm. Tony had an idea of what was happening, cluing Peter in with a reminder of how he had suddenly felt okay enough to grieve his uncle when the time came. It clicked; Wade finally felt safe and comfortable enough in his life that his mind was ready to start the healing process. Peter carried Wade away from the group, who let them have their space. He removed his mask, and convinced Wade to let him take his off, and he held him. Wade announced that he didn't understand what was going on and that he couldn't stop, so Peter told him not to stop. He told him that this was a good thing even though it didn't feel like it, and that it wouldn't last forever. After a while, when Wade was calm enough, Peter took him home. He explained to him what he thought was happening. From that point on, Wade was much more prone to having harder breakdowns, but at that point they seemed to happen at more appropriate times. He also had an easier time talking about it, even if it did hurt like all hell. Thankfully, for Wade's sake, his primary trauma response now is sobbing and nightmares. And when it happens, someone is always there to help him. Of course he still has his random weepy moments at weird things, but Peter has always been understanding of that and never judged him. If anything, he only ever helped Wade feel validated. When Peter was 22 and Wade was 28, the Trial of the Gods ensued. This was hard on Wade, and revealed he had a host of dependency issues with Peter. It led to them having a serious but gentle talk, where Peter offered to work with him on easing his mind about the fact that bad things happen, and if anything bad ever happened to Peter, he needed the peace of mind that Wade would take care of himself. Stay clean, healthy, surround himself with his friends, continue to do good things. If not for himself, then for Peter, because he would want that. Wade agreed, even though the conversation was hard. Ultimately, Wade's mind never reached any peace until he went on a mission and secretly killed himself in order to get to The Realm of Silence, Interitus's realm of the dead. After having a quick conversation wherein Wade asked the elk god if he would ever die for good, Interitus told him 'yes.' He said that Wade would not live forever, that his time would come when it was right, and in death he would be with his beloved. This gave Wade all the peace he needed. Someday, Wade and Peter will get married. How, when and under what circumstances remain a mystery. For now, they're just loving life together. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#Marvel #MCU #SpideyPool #Spiderman #Deadpool #Wade Wilson #Peter Parker

33 notes · View notes