#i see time and time again the female characters are treated in comparison to male characters when they are both flawed | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

hezuart · 7 months

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New helluva boss episode is out, any thoughts?

Season 1 Fizz: Robo Fizz was mean and called children ugly. Real Fizz called his guests “freaks”. Called Moxie an "ugly little bitch". Bragged about his fame and the money made off his robots and was even really pissed off his robot was destroyed at that theme park and wanted to sue

Season 2 Fizz: Extremely insecure, extremely nervous, hates the robots produced in his image, never bad mouths anyone and is really kind and nice to his competition, knows ASL and gives inspiration to children

Who on earth is this guy???? You’re not Fizz??? By god, she’s done it again! Another male main character has been uwuified!! 😰When will it end???

~~~

Mammon: “You’ll be like the son I never had!” Fizz is elated at this, but Blitz’s dad already treated Fizz like the son he never had? Literally gave him a card saying he wished Fizz was his son. He was treated super well and was the most beloved within his circus. I mean, he did lose that, and him explaining everything he has is because of Mammon, and so I get it, he has an attachment to all this. I like that we are expanding on his character, but I feel like its overdone. The insecurity is a little too much. The panic attacks are a little too much. (Dude lost his arms and legs in a freak fire accident and its a creepy fan that he probably has to deal with on a daily basis that sets him off? I feel like he would be a tad bit mentally and physically stronger to deal with. I mean, he fricken talked back to STRIKER, a serial killer holding him for ransom locked in a cage last episode??? But he freezes up when an annoying fan criticizes him? Just feels inconsistent.)

Mammon saying “If you’re a chick, give up on your dreams, because woman ain’t funny” and then Vivziepop’s name appearing in the corner… there’s so much to unpack there. I think Viv meant it as like “I’m a woman, so I can write that joke!” or “I’m a woman, who wrote this show and is therefore funny so Mammon is wrong and it's ironic!” But it's been established that Viv neglects and mistreats her female characters. They’re either all bitches or cardboard cut outs whose entire existences revolve around a male character. It’s low-key sexist. On top of the fact that, Viv may not actually be funny because most of the actually funny jokes in the show were written by Adam and Brandon, who are both men. So its VERY ironic, but not in the way she believes it to be.

The irony of Mammon hiring an Imp who idolizes him only to exploit him and treat him like garbage… weren’t their exworkers of spindle horse that felt that way?

Some people think that Fizz’s creepy fan is like.. Viv’s poke at her critics but I don’t see a comparison at all. This guy is a super super big fan that wants to work with Fizz, which isn’t what the Viv critics want. I’m pretty sure that’s the whole point- is that they want nothing to do with her? So I’m pretty sure this guy just represents a creepy fan, which everyone gets. Like a Syndrome character.

Also in season 1, Blitz killed imps left and right for Stolas, but when that fan is actually getting close to Fizz and threatening his life, Blitz doesn’t kill him on site. He just hits him with a gun. Thank goodness he kills him later but Blitz has never really been discreet. It was just weird forced timing I guess. Season 1 Blitz would have never hesitated. He would have killed that guy on site.

I will never get over Asmodeus’s weird coat, his anatomy changes with whatever he’s wearing lkdsgjldkfj

Mammon and Fizz are pretty much just Valentino and Angel Dust , but no physical exploitation (other than his robo replicas)

The Glam and Glitz sisters are really cool I’m obsessed with their performance, but we go right back to Viv’s 2 types of women: bitches. They’re bitches to each other too. They’re sisters who have like amazing choreography and on stage chemistry, and yet they constantly fight, like… how do they even function

ALSO THEY GOT TOM HARDY TO SING HE’S NARRATING THE COMPETITION YOU GOT THE INTERNET’S FAMOUS MUSICAL COMEDIAN TO SING A SONG FOR YOUR “COMEDY” SHOW WHERE THE SONG ISN’T EVEN FUNNY It looks like he wrote it himself but… if even Tom can’t make it funny then who can???? I’m mad on his behalf

Also… the ASL imp

…. “I want to be a clown just like you! : D “ Fizz: Exploited for money as a clown ever since he was young, gained a boatload of insecurity because his boss was so pushy, forced to deal with sexual encounters, sold his likeness into a popular sex doll without actually wanting to, lost his arms and legs in a freak fire accident because the circus tents aren’t safe- Also Fizz: “You can do whatever you want to : ) “ This would have been a sweet moment if this wasn’t Helluva Boss!!!!!! This is Hell!!! what on earth are you doing Viv!!!! Kid pls do literally anything else with your life Also how and why does Fiz know ASL

Ozzie and Fizzie getting a love song is cheesy you know, but…. Stolas X Blitz fans wish man… they WISH Oz x FIz is literally just the better Stolas x Blitz. Like this what the Stolitz fans want but its given to the side characters for some reason. Fizz’s end song was nice but All our main characters are just so flat Sad uwu special sweeties that have done nothing wrong... I'm just so sad to see them become former shadows of their badass selves. Our main characters were greedy, selfish, mean, sometimes creepy assholes. Now they're not. It was either an accident, they're hypocrites, or they were abused- and im like... this is Hell, can't we still have our main demon characters be assholes? I'm so curious what the explanation is gonna be for Blitz x Verosika. Is she gonna be framed as the bitch who ruined the relationship? Did Blitz "accidentally" steal her car and credit card because he was drunk? Like what else are we gonna strip away so he's "relatable"?

Nice to see Wally Wackford back I missed him

I like how fiery Ozz’s design gets Ozzie confessing he loves Fizz to an entire crowd so all of Hell knows and everyone is like “OMG I KNEW IT! GOOD FOR THEM!” Being with a low class demon was something to be ashamed of. A power imbalance. Something seen as taboo in Hell. Now we have 3 top sin embodiments dating the lowest of low class in Hell and not only do people not care negatively, they’re happy for them. There’s no stakes. Our main characters can do whatever they want “You’re gonna regret revealing that Ozz!” how who are you gonna tell? the romance police? fricken Now we have Mammon! Add him to the reoccurring villains I guess!!!! yeesh

(Clowns are apparently also like… influencers in this world for some reason???? I still don't understand Vivziepop's clown obsession I think this is just not my jurisdiction )

All things considered, not a bad episode for season 2, but im kinda at the point where I don't think helluva boss is gonna deliver anything outside of abused main characters with cute relationships I don't think they're gonna do anything else

#helluva boss critical #vivziepop critical #text post #ask

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waywardcollectionchai · 9 months

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Since I started being part of the Sonic fandom and the Sonamy fandom i've noticed both of them had quite simmilar misunderstoods towards amy's character.

And it's... Amy never was created to be an "obssesive girl" "an obssesive fangirl" "an obssesive girl who only thinks about Sonic and nothing else"

And this is a consequence of the bad localization Sonic had in the West and how they didn't understand Amy's character, a girl who was created with many qualities japanese people love but the west considers it "weird", still affects her character to this day at this point we're many hear by mouth and mouth how Amy is but never had the thought of thinking "all of this is true?"

Look at this comparison between japanese!Sonic and American!Sonic and how different they treat Amy (minute 1:50 - 3:29)

https://youtu.be/PiSVTpRCGXA?si=cF_eEzFO5N3BPFQO

Thanks to this majority of western fans thought Sonic was always mad at Amy when in reality that was not the original intention and destroys all the concept of "obssesive" and "fangirl" were she cared for birdie and protected Gama from Sonic.

A girl who always tries to be better, helping people many wouldn't pay attention but she knows they need help.

A girl who is conscious she has to work hard than his friends with super powers

And Sonic being one of her main inspirations 'cause he represents what she wants to become: being free, going on your own having adventures, the excitement everything against the boring

And you would say "but in heroes she was an obssesive fangirl😭"

No, the fandom scaled the proportions and couldn't handle a single innofensive joke

Amy knew exactly exactly what she was doing telling him to "Marry him" as a joke. He would low his defenses and cause him to feel embarrassed and nervous 'cause she knows he's terrible at romance or i'm general, feelings

And many forgot that in the game Amy didn't know exactly why Sonic, Tails and knuckles we're together. In the beggining Amy saw Sonic in the paper and told us she hasn't seen Sonic in weeks and when she saw them thought they were just hanging out.

I'm talking about the girl who all the game supported,encouraging Cream and Big to rescue Chocola and Froggy and they needed someone as determinante, courageous as Amy who reminded her friends how brave they are

She even shows appreciation and love for the landscapes (just like Sonic)

"But- but in later games she was so obssesive and fangirl for Sonic 😭" Again bad localization for the west when in the original sources she was handled bit better than the West.

Also, Western has an obssesive to always point out the bad interpretations of female characters and saying why they are "the worst" "the most annoying characters" when at the same time try so hard to prove why this interpretation of a male character is not "bad enough" or "not the worst" and why even with bad characterizations he is still the best **cough****cough** Sonic and shadow respectively **cough****cough**

The character is not perfect, that's a reality.

She has strenghts and flaws that made her unique on her own. Her love for her friends (yes, this includes Sonic), the animals, the good and "Bad" robots and even characters who we're "devil"... She saw good, hope and love for them. She decides to help them being at their sides to show them there's always the option to chose a good path

She is the heart of all teams, she brings happines and hope to everyone. That's why all the cast loves and appreciates her and never refered to her like fandom does. That should tell you something

Personally I don't agree with the idea of "Amy is not an obssesive girl anymore and now she is a strong cute girl" when she has a l w a y s been a strong cute, bubbly, sassy, kinda bratty, compassive, energetic, silly girl but many think this is new when it's always been in front of you, you just decided to finally see the character and not prejuices

#sonic the hedgehog #amy rose #character analysis #sonamy #sonamy analysis #a.r.a.p #i remember in 2000 it was normal in fanfics to always mention how obssesive she was #thank god it stopped #at least in Sonamy fanfictions #sonic fandom #sega #sonic adventure #sonic adventure 2 #sonic heroes #fandumb #amy rose analysis

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visceralcoma · 6 months

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Because OP blocked me. I decided to make my own post to debunk every single one of their points. source in case you wanted to see their foolishness directly.

Transcript:

"buh buh buh Dreadwolf not Baldur's Gate 3" You're right, Dreadwolf won't be Baldur's Gate 3. Dreadwolf won't be a game where the creators were so uninvested in a non-white woman's story that they refused to actually finish her storyline and then declared that her being condemned to slavery was the ending she "deserved". Dreadwolf won't be a game that's obsessed with victimizing and slaughtering members of an oppressed minority, all while portraying them as leeches and criminals preying on the people providing them with refuge. Dreadwolf won't be a game where an entire foreign culture is portrayed as irredeemably savage and evil, and where a character of that culture's "good" ending is to abandon her culture for that of western-/white-coded society. Dreadwolf won't be a game that constantly romanticizes emotionally manipulative and abusive white men, placing them at the forefront of stories while constantly portraying women in positions of power as evil and stupid bitches. Dreadwolf won't be a game that vilifies a matriarchal society, especially one of dark-skinned women, while at the same time treating them as sex objects even in the context of them abusing prisoners. Dreadwolf won't be a game where the amount of story content and dialogue a character receives is dictated entirely by their skin colour. Dreadwolf won't be a game where an evil character is heavily queer-coded, with a backstory filled to the brim with allusions to homophobic stereotypes about gay men being manipulative and predatory. Dreadwolf won't be a game that uses a female character to paint a male character as being totally awesome and totally smart, then writes that female character as not only a total bitch but short-sighted and stupid as well. Dreadwolf won't be a game where the roles of recurring characters and whether they return as playable characters or reduced to shallow villains isn't dictated by whether or not they're white. So yeah, Dreadwolf won't be like Baldur's Gate 3, because it is not made by and for shitty people.

Lets go down the line of their "points"

Isabella, when she was given to the Qunari in DA2.

City Elves, insanely victimized and deemed criminals by in world humans. And they (and Dalish) are often slaughtered in the narrative by humans.

Qunari, Tevinter, you can't go five minutes without someone calling Tevinter evil or deeming any Qunari as a savage. And Iron Bull's entire arc is about him leaving the Qun as the "good" ending.

Cullen, Samson, Anders, Solas - their stories are pushed forward, despite the fact their narrative counterparts get the shit end of the stick. Vivienne, Calpurnia, Wynne, and Merrill

Rivain. and Isabella nuff said. In the comics she throws slaves overboard.

The black main character (Vivienne) in DAI has much less content in comparison to any of the white faves.

Samson is an evil character with a tranquil as his partner. As a templar he was part of the oppressor group and could be seen as grooming the mage turned tranquil. Especially when you remember that Templars often abused tranquil, and then what happens in DAI to tranquil.

Merrill vs Solas in terms of the Eluvians. Or, Morrigan vs Solas. Take your pick.

I present to you, Varric, Leliana, Cullen, Samson, as recurring again over multiple games. All white, or at the very least light complected. Then the ambiguously brown characters who only got cameos: Alistair and Zevran. And then the sole brown/black character cameo got shunted to multiplayer only, Isabella.

This person clearly never played dragon age and are pretending to in order to make this post for clout.

#bg3 #dragon age #baldur's gate 3 #dragon age dreadwolf #bioware #larian studios #baldur's gate

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tumblezwei · 7 months

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I'm gonna make a kind of pretentious rant rn bc I saw a post I didn't like so bear with me

So like, there's this post I saw. it starts out with "finally figured out exactly what it is about the 'stop complaining about the lack of women in shonen anime, if you want stories with strong and interesting female characters shojo is right there' argument that bothers me so much" and then it says this

I'll be honest, the biggest annoyance here is calling shoujo and shounen "genres." And to me that just shows that even though OP seems to get the actual intention behind the above statement, they still have some fundamental biases against shoujo that makes them think all it has to offer is "girl stuff."

Like, look at the comparisons they give. Princess Tutu and Madoka (which isn't even confirmed a shoujo) vs Naruto and MHA. Ask literally any shoujo fan for a rec that compares to Naruto and I can guarantee you neither of those above will be the first to cross their minds. Because surprise surprise! Shoujo does, in fact, contain as much deep, complex, and interesting stuff as shounen! And that even includes action! I can give you so many examples of a shoujo being mistaken for a shounen (cough Banana Fish cough) or a shounen mistaken for a shoujo (cough Horimiya cough) because demographics are not defined borders. You can't just say that of course someone who likes action/adventure won't like the Girl Stuff. It's a reductive view of what female-centered media can be in and of itself.

But like, I get it. As someone who also grew up with traditionally masculine interests, it can be annoying to hear people say that you should try the Girl things for Girls. But I'm gonna be real here, you just straight up aren't going to get good female representation in your traditionally masculine interests unless you also show support for the traditionally feminine. Which leads into this addition to that post:

Like that's the thing about this. It's all well and good to say that boys deserve good female characters. They absolutely do and we should continue to advocate for such, but that sentiment rings so hollow when those good female characters already exist and y'all just don't want to touch them. I get that you don't want good rep for some random series, you want it for Naruto, for One Piece, for Demon Slayer. But I am stressing so much that the reason shoujo fans are so insistent that you try these other series out is because that's how you show that you want it.

Because again, it's perfectly acceptable to clamor for good rep in the series you already love, but by consuming nothing but shows/manga made for men, by men, with majority male casts, you are telling them that that's what you want.

A caveat: I'm not pointing at you the reader or OP specifically and saying "it's YOUR 🫵 fault shounen has poorly written women because you haven't read Fruits Basket," because it's obviously more complicated than just pure numbers. But it's frustrating to see people plead for y'all to diversify your reading portfolio only to get met with the brick wall non-solution of "well boys deserve good female characters too you know!!"

Like yeah! They do! We never said they didn't! But all saying that has done is plop us right back to where we started. What am I supposed to do with that? What am I supposed to do with any of this? As great as it would be for MHA to suddenly start treating it's female characters better, we both know that isn't happening. You gave us a problem and we're trying to offer a solution. So why are we the bad guys here just because you have preconceived notions of what shoujo is like compared to shounen?

And to add another caveat, it's ok to not like shoujosei stories people recommend! You don't have to like Basara or Yona or OHSHC or any other that you may have tried and dropped. I don't want it to sound like I'm guilt tripping people into being ashamed for not enjoying stuff they don't enjoy, but 9 times out of 10 the people pushing back with that kind of attitude haven't even tried. How do you even know you won't like the series we recommend if you don't even care enough to know that they aren't all one genre?

And I guess that's it. Like, at the end of the day you can do whatever you want, I just wanted to put my frustrations out there. Which is why I screenshotted this instead of rbing OP. I'm sure they want a lengthy argument just as much as I do (not at all).

#rambling #discourse tag #long post #ok the beast has been satiated #back to my cave

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fayesdiary · 1 year

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ooh, 12, 13, 14, and 15 for Celica

12) What I like about how fandom portrays her

Now I haven't been in the mainstream FE fandom in a long time (and considering the things I've heard that's probably a good thing), but I get the feeling that people are finally warming up to her and giving her the appreciation she deserves!

13) What I don't like about how fandom portrays her

...which is in direct contrast to how she was treated shortly after Echoes released. My god, people hated her in the early days.

From making the most bad faith assumptions possible (like claiming she wholeheartedly trusted Jedah), to calling her a dumb hypocrite ("she hates war but she killed pirates ravaging her kingdom. curious. i am very intelligent". Even worse considering apparently even one of the creators got into it too with "lol woman is angry and man doesn't know why so relatable") or even a useless damsel in distress. Because of course, everyone whines about wanting a flawed lord and then bitch about every slight mistake they do when they get one.

Trust me, I was on the FE subreddit back in the day, I have read stuff. But then again, when the game itself is really sexist, of course it's gonna lure in sexist people.

14) What I like about how canon portrays her

Fire Emblem female lords tend to follow the same archetype (which Celica herself started by the way) of "pacifist who hates violence but still fights to put an end to it", and what makes them unique and interesting is their details and mindsets along with the fuckups the writers have them do so their male counterparts can clean up their mess and look better by comparison

In Celica's case it's her religiousness and how it affects her as a person (mostly for the better, sometimes for the worse), her willingness to get her hands dirty and beat the shit out of pirates and crime lords if it means her people get to live a better life, and her extreme reservedness and trying to both constantly self-sacrifice and putting the world on her shoulders, which results in her keeping all her problems to herself until they either come back biting her like in Act 4 or her repressed emotions explode into outbursts of rage like at the end of Act 2.

You get to see so much of her feats and fatals flaws and that's what makes her such a wonderful character.

15) What I don't like about how canon portrays her

sigh Here we go again.

Celica's biggest problem is that she gets sidelined hard near the end of the game and she slowly starts losing her agency from as early as Act 3 until she becomes little more than Alm's cheerleader by the time of Act 5.

And Act 4 is half "Celica gets done in by her fatal flaws which is great shit" and "Celica loses any semblance of agency for herself which is just shit." By the time of Act 5 the game doesn't even try to hide it anymore. You can't control her until the final battle, she can't wield Falchion for some stupid reason and the game keeps singing Alm's praises while leaving Celica to the side like the good love interest she ought to be🙄

Also Conrad. Just... Conrad's whole reason for existing- saving her from situations she didn't even need saving from in Gaiden. Cause gods know she had too much agency.

Really though if Kaga is doing a better job at handling female characters than you are, you really should be ashamed of yourself

#fire emblem #fire emblem echoes #fire emblem echoes shadows of valentia #fe15 #celica #ask replies #loregoddess #my rambles #yay i didn't talk about celica for a long time! :D #as well as making passive-aggressive comments about conrad😅

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basketcasemp3 · 2 years

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In the context of Kevin Can F Himself would you say that Raymond as this emotionally broken man who can’t escape his abusive family and just as much a victim as Debra? And for King of Queens Carrie is caught between her father and husband neither which she can truly escape from until both of them die?

honestly i dont think theyre really that comparable other than a character being caught between a spouse and their parent. like. for context i havent seen an entire episode of king of queens and i will die having never seen an entire episode of king of queens. but i dont see raymond as a tragic figure or someone whos emotionally traumatized by his mother because his mother only ever goes after debra. from what ive seen of everybody loves raymond, marie (the mother) is toxic to raymond & his family in the context of being obsessed with him and thinking no one will ever be good enough for him, and by way of that, puts all of her anger into how she treats debra. Which is why debra is the "tragic figure" (in comparison to kcfh) because her mother in law treats her like garbage every time they talk and raymond doesnt do much in the way of defending her (sometimes he does, sometimes he doesnt. but marie always has the last word). I think theres definitely an argument in which a genre-shift could show that raymond is traumatized by marie's obsession with him (and there are definitely horror movies to prove that) but for what the show itself is, you definitely feel more sympathy towards debra constantly fighting a losing battle in which raymond usually says "it is what it is" and tries to move on. i think theres a lesson to be learned from raymond & marie about the toxicity of mothers feeling ownership over their kids, but thats not really something kcfh goes into at all so it doesnt really apply in this context

again, i won't speak on king of queens because i have absolutely no idea what goes on in that show but. i think the reason that kcfh himself directly references and parodies kevin james shows is because of the huge male egos that dominate the female characters lives. i imagine king of queens is a lot of the husband saying "i know best" and the dad saying "no i know best" with the wife having as much input as "you two are annoying" or "men! cant live with them cant live without them". so looking at it from the kcfh writers pov, you can see they view both debra and carrie as women who don't have much agency in their relationships or their lives due to all/mostly male writers rooms who want to use women as a punchline or part of the obstacle, not part of the story

#sorry if im not understanding your question properly im. very tired #also im sorry if this doesnt make sense im. not eloquent #kevin can f**k himself #ask #anonymous

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gimme-mor · 3 years

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ACOTAR THINK PIECE: ELAIN ARCHERON, UNTOUCHABLE

*DISCLAIMER*

This will be a long post.

Please take the time to read this post in its entirety and truly reflect on the message I am trying to send before commenting. My goal is to use my background in Gender and Women’s Studies to deconstruct the comments I have seen on Tumblr and Twitter and bring awareness to the ACOTAR fandom.

The reason I am tagging “Elriel” in this post is to call attention to the arguments in the Elriel fandom that: weaponize Elain’s femalehood to shame real life people for their opinions about Elain’s character and her relationship with Lucien; victimize Elain’s character in fandom discussions; and coddle Elain’s character, which limits fandom discussions about her narrative development and prevents the ACOTAR fandom from holding Elain accountable for her actions and inactions in the same way that the fandom holds other characters accountable for their actions and inactions. It is for these reasons that I WILL NOT remove the “Elriel” tag from this post because all of the above points contribute to the toxic discourse surrounding Elain’s character.

I urge those who use these arguments to understand their implications, why they are problematic, regardless of intent, and reexamine their contributions to the ACOTAR fandom. I WILL NOT tolerate anyone who tries to twist my words and say I am attacking people and their personal shipping preferences. In fact, I AM CRITIQUING THE ARGUMENTS THEMSELVES NOT THE PEOPLE USING THE ARGUMENTS.

Also, I highly encourage the Elriel fandom to read this post because it addresses how the concept of choice as an argument enables arguments to exploit social justice and feminist languge in order to vilify Elucien shippers, among other problematic things.

Elain Archeron is one of the most polarizing characters in the ACOTAR fandom. Though opinions about Elain vary, arguments in the Elriel fandom cite society’s perception of traditional female characters in comparison to non-traditional female characters as the reason behind the hate, and this belief is used to provide an explanation as to why other characters in the series are favored over her. In the series, Elain is portrayed in a wholly positive light and this image carries over into the Elriel fandom, painting her character as a good and kind female who has been unfairly wronged and a victim of circumstances that were out of her control. When arguments in the Elriel fandom oppose other viewpoints in the fandom, they fall into one of three categories:

Category 1: Weaponize Elain’s femalehood to shame real life people for their opinions

Maybe people who hate Elain are just jealous of her in a weird way similar to when someone hates the pretty, nice, and charming girl in school just because she is too perfect

Disliking Elain is misogynistic

What happened to feminism? What happened to women supporting women? What happened to she can say no? All of that disappears the second you force Elain to be with Lucien

Elain antis are misogynistic

All Eluciens are Elain antis

Antis claiming they’re feminists when in reality they hate on Elain and Feyre but love Nesta

Elain antis are such sore losers. Y’all were that bunch of people who could not get over being rejected from hanging out with the cool kids so y’all are projecting your hatred towards pretty people now to get validation

I don’t get how Elain’s love for gardening equals boring for some people. I’m sorry your misogyny finds traditionally feminine activities boring

Why are you attacking a female? What did Elain do? Where are your feminist voices?

The fandom is misogynistic towards Elain

If people loved Elain they would ship Elriel

If you hate Elain it says a lot about your feelings toward women

If you hate Elain because she has no “development” then you must hate Azriel because otherwise you’re misogynistic

Eluciens are turned off by the idea of a woman that has the autonomy to reject a man for the simple reason that it is her choice

Eluciens are all about feminism and “it’s HER choice” until it comes down to females not wanting a male

Eluciens don’t respect Elain’s feelings when they ship her with someone that was part of her trauma and makes her feel uncomfortable

The way some Elucien shippers completely disregard how uncomfortable Elain is around Lucien is so hilariously not funny. Prioritizing being mates over Elain’s feelings is just regressive

It’s hard as a fan of Elain to see someone ship her with a person who makes her physically uncomfortable to be around. Wouldn’t you want both characters to be happy to be around each other

Imagine if SJM saw all the awful things her “stans” had to say about Elain

It’s true that we know comparatively little about her, but is she really boring or do you just not value stereotypically feminine traits?

So y’all are just gonna tell me you prefer Elucien over Elriel? Even though Lucien treats Elain as if she’s something that belongs to him? The only reason he wants to be with her is because she’s his mate, he doesn’t respect her, doesn’t treat her as his equal, even though that’s what mates should be? He doesn’t bother to look past what’s on the outside to see her for who she is. And Elain is obviously repulsed by the idea that she should belong to anyone or have no choice in who she can be with. Azriel is her friend and the only person who sees her quiet strength. He has so much faith in her, in her abilities; he’s the one who kept her company when no one else did, he’s the only one who bothered to see her for more than her brokenness. You’re going to tell me you still prefer Elucien over Elriel?

The more I see Gwynriels that ship Elucien out of their hate for Elain, the less I can understand Elain stans that ship Elucien. Pls Elain has made it very clear that she doesn’t want Lucien, why would you ship her with him? Do you hate her too? Smh

The real question would be, if you care and understand Elain why would you ship her with Lucien (where she canonically shrinks when he is near)?

People crying over Helion and Lucien’s mom not getting to be with each other and her being forced into a relationship she didn’t want, but also ship Elucien? Just say you hate Elain

When Elain’s book is out, Gwyn stans will look like clowns and I will laugh because they set her up by shipping her with Azriel just because they hate Elain. Watch them play the victims now because Elriels are clapping back the hate they’ve sent towards Elain

As romantic as wanting girl who is visibly uncomfortable around a guy who caused her trauma to end up with the said guy. Guess their standards for romance are in hell

Category 2: Victimize Elain’s character

Gwynriels only want Gwyn with Azriel because they despise Elain

Gwyn stans and Gwynriels are Elain antis

No one in the books dislike Elain, so why are there so many people who do?

Elain hasn’t done anything wrong or questionable to warrant the hate she gets

Not having Elain’s POV makes it easy for people to be swayed a certain way about her character if you already don’t relate to her in some way

It’s been years since this series came out and we haven’t gotten a lick of an Elain POV, but people still hate her for what? We don’t know her thoughts, dreams, or aspirations

We haven’t even had Elain’s perspective yet and people are passing these judgments off on her

Elain antis who say she’s boring are just cruel when she has obvious symptoms of PTSD like Feyre and Nesta

Gwyn is one of the most overhyped characters and that’s only because most people hate Elain and they couldn’t wait to find a random girl to ship Azriel with

Nesta was abusive to her sisters but Elain (who has only ever been kind) is painted as the villain

From the text we know that Elain is the epitome of feminine stereotypes (gentle, gardening, baking, non confrontational for the most part). Yet people still call her boring or deny that she has any interesting character traits?

You can’t love Nesta and hate Elain

People hate Elain because of internalized misogyny and lack of taste. All the girl does is tend to her garden and mind her business and they treat her worse than Tamlin

Does Gwyn deserve all this support? Of course yes! She is amazing! But where’s that support when Elain was in the same situation as she? Where’s that support for her right now? Why do they idolize Gwyn for her interactions with Azriel and hate Elain for having any interaction with him?

It’s not even a ship war anymore, they just hate Elain

People hate Elain for no reason

Some of y’all don’t like feminine traits and it shows

We know less about Eris and Helion but people don’t call them boring. Why would rejecting femininity make Elain more interesting?

Elain has had a lot forced upon her

The main reason I believe most people love Gwyn so much is to get Azriel away from Elain. It’s not a secret that Elain has been a widely hated character for years so suddenly we get a new female who has a minimal amount of interactions with Azriel and BOOM. New ship that once again doesn’t make sense (just like Azriel x Emerie after ACOFAS)

Elain hasn’t done something so terrible for her to get this hate. At this point some of you are just being misogynistic and you don’t want to accept it. Don’t call yourselves feminists and then say bs like this, it’s embarrassing. She’s pretty and everyone agreed to hate on her

Just a personal feeling, but I feel like a lot of the Elain hate stems from internalized misogyny. That to be a strong female lead, you need to pick up a sword and fight. That to be strong, you need to adapt traditionally masculine traits

Elain is feminine. She is beautiful. She loves to bake and garden. She is docile, quiet, observant, and a people-pleaser. All traditionally feminine traits. Yet for some reason, she’s like the worst in these people’s eyes?

I think also maybe a lot of people can’t relate to her femininity? That her being so beautiful and quiet doesn’t allow for the people who dislike her not to self-insert? Most of the hate stems from people not wanting Elain to be with Azriel. It’s mean, but maybe the people who hate Elain literally just can’t self-insert if they have a story and that’s why they’re vehemently against it?

Poor Elain. The Cauldron dealt her a bad deal. Upon emerging as Fae, she is immediately declared by Lucien as his mate, never mind that she was already engaged to a prick. Her love life is not good

It blows my mind how they really think that they can compare all the shit that Elain gets with some dumb jokes about Gwyn on Twitter (and yes, the “hate” towards her started mostly because Elriels are clapping back, it was bound to happen)

I would think of it as anti-feminist with Elain and Lucien because she has consistently stated that she does not want him so if she was forced to embrace the bond that would be taking away her right to have a choice but with Az she feels comfortable around so if they were mates then Elain would be happy and feel safe which again should be the priority for women to feel safe in their relationships with anything and to not be forced into any type of situation aka the mating bond in this

Category 3: Coddle Elain’s character

Elain has value the way she is, in all her domestic girly glory. Not every character has to be badass

We don’t speak of Elain’s flaws frequently because everyone else already speaks badly of her, mainly in an unfair way

There is definitely something deeper going on with Elain but by no means will she ever be evil or any less feminine. That goes against everything we already know about her

It’s ok to critique Elain because she needs growth but y’all keep forgetting the shit her and her sisters went through

The last “bad” thing Elain did in ACOTAR was not help Feyre when they were impoverished and I’m tired of people acting like she’s a terrible character when it was their father’s responsibility. It happened 4 books ago and Feyre has forgiven both Nesta and Elain

Elain’s character and the evil Elain theory are a great example of the trend where people only consider female characters interesting if they reject femininity

We don’t know enough to hate Elain

Many people want Elain to turn evil (which in my opinion seems to come from a place of internalized misogyny)

However we don’t tend to talk about her faults, at least not publicly, as that has been, and still is, done to death, and I--personally, at least--find it much more fun to theorise about potentially interesting aspects of the overall plot, than dwell on negatives

And ultimately, I would be shocked if Elain has a more karmically-charged story than Nesta, considering that Elain’s “wrongs” are so much less severe and bad than Nesta’s, and Elain has already apologized for them (or paid the price in other ways, like through what Graysen did)

I guess I also think Elain has suffered and been punished enough. I hope her story is about finding hope in terrible situations, and learning to love her new life, and choosing her own path after everything that has been done to her. I don’t think she needs to be punished anymore or face any additional trauma

Also, why is she being judged on her decisions as a human at all? Fae are monsters to humans! They enslaved them for thousands of years, and the Wall was erected to keep them out

Like I’m sorry, but think Elain would want to leave her ONLY FAMILY AND FRIENDS for the Spring Court where she has no one because--oh look, lots of flowers!--is the craziest thing I have ever heard

Her sisters are in the Night Court. Her nephew is in the Night Court. Her closest friends (Nuala and Cerridwen) are in the Night Court. Her love interest is in the Night Court. Her extended family is in the Night Court. Her home is in the Night Court

SJM isn’t going to keep two sisters together and split up the third. Especially not keep Feyre and Nesta together and separate Elain. They were either all going to end up in separate places, or together. Not 2 here and 1 there

Compared to the other female characters in the series, Elain is the only character whose femalehood is at the center of conversations; this is because arguments in the Elriel fandom fixate on it when discussing her character. While Elain, Feyre, Nesta, and Mor are all representations of white womanhood and white beauty, Elain epitomizes the most fragile version of white womanhood. It’s easy to blame society’s perception of traditional female characters in comparison to non-traditional female characters when it comes to the discourse surrounding Elain’s character because it: falls in line with the fixation on Elain’s femalehood to silence opposing viewpoints; is a simplistic explanation that fails to tackle the underlying issues with Elain as a character, the same issues that are downplayed in-universe; absolves Elain of her wrongdoings; prevents the ACOTAR fandom from holding Elain accountable for her actions and inactions within the series; and diminishes the impact Elain’s actions and inactions have on those around her. It’s not that Elain is hated in the fandom because she’s a traditional female character; it’s the fact that arguments in the Elriel fandom deflect a critical analysis of Elain’s character because she’s a traditional female character who embodies the ideal white woman in need of protection. White fans and white-aligned fans of color, especially white women, have a tendency to vehemently defend, gatekeep, and coddle white female characters in fandom; this makes it difficult for other fans to engage in critical discussions about these white female characters because they’re viewed as flawless and all around perfect characters despite evidence to the contrary. Since Elain is viewed positively by the other characters in the series, it has rendered her character untouchable to any perceived slight or criticism in fandom discussions because those negative opinions challenge what has been said about her character thus far. And as a result, her character has been placed on a pedestal and implicitly hailed as the epitome of white womanhood; and when she’s criticized, it’s seen as a direct attack against white womanhood. Arguments in the Elriel fandom: exploit feminist language and perpetuate white feminist tactics under the guise of defending Elain’s character; center Elain in conversations about female oppression in the ACOTAR world and uphold white feminist ideologies in their critique of ACOTAR’s patriarchal society; and use the fragile white woman narrative to victimize Elain in Lucien’s presence, playing into racial biases that are associated with white supremacy’s defense of white womanhood.

Feminism is a social movement that seeks to promote equality and equity to all genders, and feminists work toward eradicating gender disparities on a macro-level, in addition to challenging gender biases on a micro-level. As feminism became more mainstream, a flat and oversimplified version of feminism emerged: mainstream feminism. The mainstream feminist movement is meant to represent all women, but rarely does it center conversations around issues that concern most women. The problem with mainstream feminism is that it’s just a popularized version of white feminism. White feminism has relied extensively on an individualized understanding of women’s oppression, exclusively from the lens of privileged white women. White feminism only focuses on the oppression experienced by white, able-bodied, affluent, educated, cishet women; and it views gender as the key mode of privileged white women’s oppression, isolated from the privileges granted by their other social identities. White women can be and are oppressed under the patriarchy but only because they are women; their identity as women does not exempt them from the privileges granted by their whiteness. The term white feminist does not mean any feminist who is white, but refers to feminists who prioritize the concerns of privileged white women as though they are representative of all women. However, the term is not exclusive to white people. Because white feminism is so pervasive, people of other racial and ethnic backgrounds often buy into white feminism, believing that if they work hard enough, they may be able to reap its rewards.

Just like white feminism, mainstream feminism only recognizes the identity of being a woman, assumes that all women share common experiences of gender oppression, fails to address other social identities in relation to overlapping systems of oppression, and disregards privilege in relation to various social identities. Just like white feminism, mainstream feminism is palatable because it doesn’t seek to challenge the systems in place, instead its goal is to succeed within them. Essentially, mainstream feminism and white feminism are extensions of performative feminism. Performative feminism is a type of performative activism that’s used to describe feminist views that are surface level and solely for the benefit of one type of person. It’s a pretense which often has nothing to do with genuine activism. Arguments in the Elriel fandom normalize and promote performative feminism because the topic of feminism is only referenced when discussing Elain. This indicates that these arguments are engaging in disingenuous discourse to push a personal agenda within the ACOTAR fandom, and it becomes more apparent when they use white feminist tactics to shut down opposing viewpoints:

White feminists weaponize and exploit feminist language to silence the opinions of other women, especially when they’re called out for their problematic behaviors

White feminists use the phrase “Women supporting women” to defend other white feminists who exhibit problematic behaviors instead of holding them accountable

White feminists weaponize phrases like “Women supporting women” and “You just hate women” to attack other women who disagree with them on any given topic

White feminists use phrases like “All women face challenges” and “Stop pitting women against each other” to sidestep conversations about privilege

White feminists divert conversations away from privilege and towards the Trauma Olympics to equate their struggles to the oppression of marginalized people

White feminists skirt around the realities of other forms of oppression and discrimination, downplaying the experiences of marginalized people

White feminists diminish or ignore the ways in which gender oppression affects other marginalized people

White feminists paint those they harmed as aggressive, mean, or divisive when confronted with the ways they have harmed a marginalized group

White feminists deflect criticism by focusing on the anger or emotions being expressed rather than the issue that is being discussed, invalidating the concerns of marginalized people

White feminists speak over marginalized voices in an attempt to sound “woke”

White feminists get defensive and insist there’s no way they could be a part of the problem because of what they’ve done to help marginalized groups already

White feminists say they don’t see color in an attempt to obscure racial issues that need to be addressed

White feminists center and victimize themselves in conversations about racism, which derails necessary conversations from taking place

White feminists who are white weaponize the intersectionality of their race and gender to avoid accountability

Feminism is not meant to be approached from an individualistic perspective nor is it only about addressing the experiences of privileged white women, it involves addressing the intersections of race, class, gender, sexuality, (dis)ability, and other social identities as well; and it involves addressing how these social identities relate to privilege. Moreover, feminism is not about women upholding complete loyalty to other women because of a shared gender identity, and to claim that it does implies that women should be held to different emotional standards than men. If men are able to dislike and criticize other individual men, real or fictional, without their characters being compromised, why aren’t women granted that same privilege?

It’s clear that SJM set up the ACOTAR world to mirror a patriarchal society, and that the imbalance of power between males and females stems from sexism. Arguments in the Elriel fandom analyze the ACOTAR world through a feminist lens to show how ACOTAR’s patriarchal society, to which the mating bond is innately tied, contributes to female oppression and limits their agency. When choice and free will are emphasized as part of Elain’s arc, they imply that Elain, through the mating bond, experiences female oppression under ACOTAR’s patriarchal society because of her identity as a female with that identity being the focal point of her oppression in the world. Elain is one of the most privileged characters in the ACOTAR world: she’s High Fae; she’s the sister of the High Lord and High Lady of the Night Court, which gives her access to wealth and political influence because of that connection; she’s able-bodied; she was magically blessed by the Cauldron; and she lives in Velaris, a place that grants females autonomy and power because of the beliefs of Rhysand and Feyre. Arguments in the Elriel fandom trivialize female oppression in the ACOTAR world because they disregard the fact that Elain’s privileges prevent her from experiencing female oppression in the same way that other marginalized females in the world do. The mating bond being one such example because those around Elain are not forcing the bond on her, instead they’re allowing Elain to reach a decision about the bond for herself; a privilege that other marginalized females in the world probably wouldn’t have. Just because Elain has endured hardships in her life and is a female in a patriarchal society, they do not erase the privileges she holds within the ACOTAR world. The failure to include Elain’s privileges in discussions about Elain being a female in a patriarchal society feeds into white feminist ideologies because white feminism operates from a very narrow perspective; it doesn’t take other intersecting identities into account when it examines gender oppression, leaving no room for discussions about privilege (or lack thereof) in relation to those intersecting identities. When discussing oppression in hierarchical societies, it’s imperative that privilege is also included in the conversation because privilege and oppression are not mutually exclusive; they equally affect the ways in which people navigate those societies through their social identities.

Rather than attributing Elain’s uncomfortability to her new life as a Fae female or the mating bond itself and her trauma to the Cauldron, the King of Hybern, or Ianthe, they’re placed on Lucien to cast his character in a negative light. Moreover, fandom discussions portray Lucien as a possessive character to further emphasize Elain’s discomfort despite the inaccuracy of this characterization in canon. Arguments in the Elriel fandom play into racial biases when it comes to Lucien (a male character of color) because they mischaracterize his character in order to victimize Elain (a white female character), placing her character in the role of the white damsel in distress. In Western society, the concept of womanhood has been conceptualized from a Eurocentric perspective with femininity and feminine attributes favoring white women. It’s the idea that a certain type of femininity is only inherent to white women as they are seen as the embodiment of an ideal womanhood. White womanhood has been a symbol of innocence and purity, and white women have been viewed as fragile beings in need of protection. The reason white womanhood functions within white supremacy is because it’s the same idea that has motivated white men to kill and beat black and brown men. The so-called protection of white women has been used as a justification for the horrific violence committed by white men because black and brown men were stereotyped as aggressive and seen as a threat to the virtue of white women. The white damsel in distress trope considered white women as worthy of protection because of their perceived innocence and purity; women of color were not granted that same treatment because they did not fit into the ideal image of womanhood. Over the years, this trope became a means for white women to exercise limited power in a patriarchal society with white women weaponizing their status as the damsel much to the detriment of black and brown men. It’s through the white damsel in distress trope that white supremacy sustains its dominance in Western society. The misrepresentation of characters of color in fandom, the dismissal of their importance to the overall story, and using them as tools in arguments centered around white characters are the foundation of fandom racism; they’re examples of how racism moves silently in fandom spaces. Instead of examining their behavior and taking constructive criticism from fans of color, white fans will often double down on their bigotry and center their uncomfortability in the conversation when confronted with their complicity in fandom racism. White fans expect fans of color to swallow fandom racism in its many forms in order to not ruin the experience of fandom, dismissing the fact that racism is prevalent in nearly every aspect of society. This mentality ensures that no one is held accountable for the harm they caused and alienates fans of color in fandom spaces.

To reiterate what I mentioned in my first think piece: terms like “oppression”, “the right to choose”, “feminist”, “feminism”, “anti-feminist”, “anti-feminism”, “internalized misogyny”, “misogyny”, “misogynist”, “sexist”, “sexism”, “racist”, “racism”, “classist”, “classism”, “discrimination”, and “patriarchy” are all used in specific ways to draw attention to the plight of marginalized people and challenge those who deny the existence of systems of oppression. Yet these words and their meanings can be twisted to attack, exclude, and invalidate people with differing opinions on any given topic. When social justice and feminist terms are thrown around antagonistically and carelessly to push a personal agenda, it becomes clear that these terms are being used to engage in disingenuous discourse and pursue personal validation rather than being used out of any deep-seated conviction to dismantle systemic oppression. Being an ally, activist, or feminist is not an identity, it’s a practice. It requires: ongoing self-reflection; holding ourselves accountable; listening to marginalized people; educating ourselves; dismantling implicit biases; challenging those around us who are exhibiting problematic behaviors; and action behind our words.

It’s important to be aware of the language that is used within the fandom when defending or critiquing characters and ships. It’s also important to question how an argument is framed and why it’s framed the way that it is to critically examine the intent behind that argument: is it used as a tool to push a personal agenda that reinforces problematic behaviors, or is it used as an opportunity to share, learn, enlighten, and educate?

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Tagging: @spell-cleavers @bookofmirth @m0bulidae @ilya-boltagon

#elain archeron #elriel #acotar fandom #acotar: fandom critical

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madara-fate · 3 years

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https://youtu.be/KyLxZA6_424 what do you think of this video ? I relly wanna know your opinion cus I didn't watch it all the way through

Oh jeez, okay this is gonna be a long one. I didn't agree with the video, not least because she is yet another example of the plethora of people who annoyingly say that an entire show apparently suffers from bad female characters, and then they go on to reference just one, and act like that one portrayal is representative of how every other female character in that show is treated. It really isn't fucking hard to acknowledge that your issue with one female character, doesn't equate to every female character from that show being bad.

NARUTO

She downplayed Sakura as badly as Swagkage did. She says that Sakura stayed like her early Pt.1 self in terms of relying on others to do the work for her, for the entire story, which is fucking preposterous. She stated that she does "nothing", and referenced the Pain invasion as an example where apparently all she did was cry for Naruto, which is such a typical and honestly such a stupid complaint, which once again boils down to these people thinking that the only way a character can be useful in a battle shounen, is if they fight. But then, why did she give Bulma so much praise earlier in the video? Bulma didn't fight either, but she proved to be instrumental in the background, which she acknowledged, and yet she can't do the same for Sakura? Why? Because she's a main? So then she feels that main characters can only be useful when they fight? That's even stupider. Furthermore, she also names Hinata as a female character that's actually capable unlike Sakura, but she gives no explanation as to why she's capable and Sakura isn't. That really irked me, because how the fuck is Hinata "capable as hell", but Sakura isn't? How can she just make an inflammatory claim like that and not even try to justify it? I would have absolutely loved to see what kind of ridiculous explanation she would have given, because I'm 100% certain that it would have been every bit as nonsensical if not more so, than the rest of the Naruto section was.

She implored for Sakura to "do something!" against Pain, but what did she expect her to do? To rush in on a suicide mission like Hinata did? Is that one of the unknown reasons she considers Hinata to be "capable as hell" but not Sakura? But Sakura has done that multiple times - She did it against the Sound ninja when she defended Naruto and Sasuke from them, she did it against Gaara when she protected Sasuke from him with her life, and she did it again against Madara when she wanted to serve as a distraction. Those were all against opponents who far outclassed her, but in those instances, at least Sakura "did something". But did this girl give her any praise or recognition for any of those things? No, of course not.

BLEACH AND ONE PIECE

It was essentially more of the same, she acted as though Orihime contributed nothing to the story other than needing to be a damsel in distress. Now, I've made it very clear that I friggin' despise that trope, and yes it has been used on Orihime and Rukia. It's also been used on Sakura, but for all of them, I can see so much more that they brought to the story. If this girl can't acknowledge those aspects of their characters, then that's a fault of her's, not the writing. She didn't say much about Nami, she acknowledged that she's the navigator and the crew would be lost without her, so then why couldn't she do the same with Sakura and acknowledge that she's the healer, and thousands of people would be dead without her? It's fucking annoying how she's just another example of people giving Sakura shit for things she's fine with for other characters, but I digress.

She does state that Nami gets pushed to the background, but how so? In comparison to the other Straw Hats, her panel time is still fairly consistent. That's just an issue of the Straw Hat crew being predominately male, not an issue of the writing.

FAIRY TAIL

She hates on Lucy because her power is to summon familiars to aid her in combat, but why is that a cause to hate on her? It's still an effective form of magic, so why is that bad writing? She says she can't take Lucy seriously because of her attire, as if she's in a maid or a cat costume all of the time. She says the characterisation for the female characters apparently died because they were often shown to behave in a goofy manner, as if the same thing can't be said for literally the majority of the cast. Natsu is one of the biggest goofballs in the series, but she acknowledges the times when he is also serious and gets the job done. So then why can't she do the same for the female characters? Why does she think they need to be in "serious BAMF" mode all the time?

At the 9:10 mark, she states "Lucy, Wendy, Levy, Juvia didn't really do anything", at which point I seriously just face palmed, because is she actually fucking serious? She has an abnormally warped definition of what "doing something" incorporates (as she proved with Sakura). She downplays Juvia as just being there as a love interest for Gray, and yet by that skewed logic, she should have hated on Hinata for just being there as a love interest for Naruto, but instead, she praised Hinata as being actually capable. So then what the fuck? Why can't she acknowledge all the times Juvia has shown how capable she truly is? She is so hypocritical in this video it's actually unreal. She very reluctantly admits that "Erza did stuff I guess", but downplays whatever she did because she apparently always did so in an outfit tailored for fanservice. Now yes, I agree that Fairy Tail's fanservice is a little excessive at times, however...

She's acting as if Erza did everything in revealing outfits, when that's not true.

Why is she insinuating that her attire is any way enough to detract from her accomplishments? That's just stupid.

And I'm pretty damn sure that she has no issues with the plethora of times that Gray "did something" with his top off or even straight up in his underwear.

The fact is, the manner in which the characters are dressed doesn't take away from their accomplishments.

MY HERO ACADEMIA

She starts off by singing her praises for Ochaco, which really bugged me. Not because Ochaco doesn't deserve it, but because literally everything she said can be applied to a character like Sakura, which she hated on.

She states she was helpful not useless, and I'm sure I need to give no explanation as to why that applies to Sakura as well, considering all of the bogus "Sakura is useless" accusations.

She states Ochaco had her own goals, as did Sakura - She wanted to better herself so that she no longer had to rely on Naruto and Sasuke to fight her battles for her, and no matter how badly this girl tries to deny it, that did happen. The fact that Sakura also had a goal to save Sasuke from the darkness doesn't mean she had no personal goals, but this girl doesn't even acknowledge the goal to save Sasuke, because she claims that all Sakura aspired for was to be with Sasuke, despite the amount of times this was explicitly proven to not be the case anymore from the Forest of Death.

She states that Ochaco even saves the main guy, while completely ignoring each and every time Sakura saved both Naruto and Sasuke's lives.

She states that Ochaco proved herself as a worthy opponent against Bakugo, as if Sakura didn't do that against Sasori.

She states that she got acknowledgement from even Bakugo, as if Sakura didn't get acknowledgement from multiple prestigious figures. Even Sasuke from as early as chapter 36 acknowledged her genjutsu skills as being the best on their team.

However, she then goes on to claim that Ochaco "turned into" a supporting character, and that she was baited into believing that the main three were Midoriya, Ida and Ochaco when it was in fact Midoriya, Bakugo and Todoroki. Now, I won't speak for everyone, but I strongly feel that Bakugo was always portrayed as one of the mains, and same goes for Todoroki from later on in the first season, if not from the very beginning of the 2nd season. Ochaco was never portrayed as being on their level in terms of character importance. This wasn't a bait and switch, especially not with Bakugo. He was always second to Midoriya in terms of character importance.

She goes on to claim how Momo is apparently not useful since she gives up in the middle of her fights, which just isn't true, I seriously don't know where she got this from. She demonstrated insecurity against Aizawa but got over it with Todoroki's encouragement. She showed exceptional leadership and planning against Saiko, and the fact that she was weakened due to excessive usage of her quirk doesn't change that. She says "oh but Bakugo and Todoroki don't get tired, why does she get tired!?", when that is yet another false claim. Among other examples, Bakugo got tired against All Might, Todoroki got tired against Gang Orca with Inasa and again when he fought against Tetsutetsu.

What this girl is once again doing here, is taking one instance from one female character, and not only using that to indicate that this is all that ever happens for this character, but she also uses that to insinuate that it's the same for every female character, and that is annoying as hell because it's clearly inapplicable to the others. When do you see Tsuyu being in those kinds of situations? She was the MVP when she fought alongside Deku and Mineta against the villains, and she was again the MVP when she fought with Tokoyami against Ectoplasm.

She claims that the guys are always ready to fight and apparently take it more seriously the more dire it is, but I really just don't understand how she doesn't see how ridiculous these comments are. The males aren't any more "ready" than the females, and she's actually insinuating that all the female characters (since she's making a general statement here) take the fights less seriously as the situation worsens... My god. What about a character like Toga then? She was getting severely beaten up by Curious and her thugs and the situation could possibly have gotten any more dire, but then her quirk evolved, she got out of that situation by herself, and defeated all of her enemies in what was a brilliant display of physical endurance, mental fortitude, and fighting ability.

She goes on to ask - "Does every girl in shounen anime need to be written as just support characters and healers?" - And therein lies one of the biggest problems I have with her, because obviously not every girl in shounen is written as just support characters and healers, and when she comes across female characters like this (like the girls in Fairy Tail for example), she completely demeans them as being useless anyway.

Lucy is a main character who isn't a healer, but this girl demeaned her because she summons familiars with her magic. This becomes even more hypocritical because at the 11:48 mark, she says "girls can be strong without needing to throw their fists around, but does every girl in shounen anime need to be written as just support characters and healers?", so then why is that suddenly a problem for Lucy? Lucy is a strong girl who doesn't throw her fists around, she isn't a supporting character and she isn't a healer either. Yet, this girl downplays her precisely because she doesn't throw her fists around and has "other characters fight for her".

Erza is a main character who isn't a healer, and most definitely does throw her fists around, but this girl demeans her because she can sometimes act goofy and is sometimes in revealing outfits.

Juvia alternates between being a main and a support, she isn't a healer, she throws her fists around, but apparently all she's good for is being Gray's love interest, she has done nothing else. That wasn't a problem for Hinata, but it's (an untrue) problem for Juvia.

I could go on for the other shows as well. Nami - She's a main character who doesn't throw her fists around, she's not a healer, but apparently she gets pushed to the background? Not only is that not true, but why was this not a problem for Bulma? She was by far the most important female character in Dragon Ball, despite the fact that her panel time was unbelievably scarce in comparison to many of the other males. The very glaring lack of important female characters (and female characters in general actually) in Dragon Ball, is so much worse than the vast majority of it's shounen contemporaries, and yet she had nothing but praise for Bulma's portrayal, claiming that "she is super useful despite not being able to fight like her male counterparts". Yet, she goes on to shit on many other female characters who that praise also applies to.

THE REST

Basically, whenever she gets exactly what she asked for at the 11:48 mark, it's suddenly not good enough for her. At 11:58, she says that she's just looking for "a girl who can kick as much butt as the guys can, and be as important as them too", which is fine, but when she gets girls who fit that mold, suddenly the way she kicks butt isn't good enough (Lucy), suddenly her outfit as she's kicking butt isn't good enough (Erza), suddenly she's also a healer so that isn't good enough (Sakura) etc.

Honestly, if I continue to dissect the video as thoroughly as I've been doing (because I still have a lot more to say regarding the rest of it), then I'll be here all day, and I think I've already made the crux of my argument abundantly clear.

However, one last thing I'd like to highlight, is how at the end, she praises Soul Eater as being a great anime, despite her saying that "the guys are only useful because of their female sidekicks". That's just funny, because she very clearly would never sing the same praises for a show where the girls were only useful because of their male sidekicks. She'll think a show is perfectly fine if the guys are nothing but background characters, or if the guys are wholly dependent on the women to stay relevant, but if the shoe is on the other foot, only then would there apparently be a problem, figures.

#Sakura Haruno #Orihime Inoue #Rukia Kuchiki #Nami #Bulma #Lucy Heartfilia #Erza Scarlet #Juvia Lockser #Ochaco Uraraka

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elia-de-silentio · 3 years

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The overarching themes of Vanitas no Carte: Identity

The Case Study of Vanitas is a very good, too little known manga (I hope the anime changes something), with some central themes than are exposed in different ways through different characters. In this meta, I want to explore one that was brought to my attention pretty recently: here a little examination on the various ways to face one's own identity in The Case Study of Vanitas.

The Stable Identity( Noè)

Let's start off with the positives, shall we? Noè has probably the most secure personal identity of all the bunch.

And this is pretty amazing, considering everything he went through. He has no memory of his birth family, but gets adopted by some nice people - who die shortly afterwards. Right at their graves, he is kidnapped by slaves, in an accident that left him injured. Then he is bought by someone who actually treats him nicely and is a good mentor for him, he finds many friends his age - and then one of them, the one he was closest to, turns out to be a cursebearer, kills all of the others and then tries to kill him; he is saved by the mentor, who beheads the friend right in front of him. The most immediate emotion is relief for being alive, and he will always feel terrible for that. Then, he has to witness his surviving friend try to cope very badly with her mourning by repressing her identity and try to substitute it with that of her dead twin. That's a lot.

And Noé reacted to all of this by becoming a confident person, kind and attentive to others, but not to the point of being a pushover. I'm not saying he walked away unscathed from the events of his childhood: he regrets the way he handled things with Louis, the way he didn't understand him, and has developed quite the savior complex as a result.

What I'm saying is that he is probably one of the very few well-adjusted people in the psychiatric ward that is Vanitas no Carte. He is still questioning himself, but in a normal way for a nineteen-years-old that has just left a sheltered environment for the big wide world. He is aware of some of his strenghts (his naivete) and is realizing others (putting unfair expectations on other people, underestimating other people due to racial biases); but most importantly, when he realizes these mistakes, he doesn't run away from them or obsess over them believing they make him a horrible person: he recognizes them, apologizes to the wronged person if necessary, and works on improving them.

This isn't to say he's completely happy-go-lucky with no regrets; he feels guilty about being relieved that he lived while Louis died, and he has a lot of uncertainties regarding his identity as an Archiviste and the impact his powers can have on other people. But he managed not to tie his entire identity to that guilt; and as for the second point, Teacher helped him rationalise that and figure out a conduit that didn't undermine him and at the same time showed respect for others. Noè went through several traumas, but received one thing most of the cast didn't: guidance and support from his environment. Whatever Teacher's actual motives are, he shaped a well-balanced person.

The Group Identity (The dhamps, appearently 99% of vampirekind)

"Us dhams are only loyal to each other!" This is what Dante says in one of the first chapters, giving us the first clues to their status as outcasts.

The war between humans and vampires ended up with each deciding to keep to themselves, but dhampires are the living exception to that silent agreement. So, both societies decide to reject them, and they can't find a place in the world unless they stick to others of their own kind. This common history of traumatic experiences of abandonment and subsequent resentment of both human and vampire society for it goes on to create a very strong group identity: the only ones they give a damn about are those like them, everyone else is a potential enemy and is only good to be exploited.

Then, we have the vampire culture. I mean ... it might be because insofar we have met almost exclusively aristocrats obsessed with their respectability ... but they have a lot of prejudices.

You're born under a uncommon moon? You're a pariah. You're mixed race? You're a pariah. Your parents committed a crime? You're a pariah, and are used as a tool. You're born as part of a set of twins? Either you or your sibling are killed at birth, because of something that is SAID, not even a certified element of vampire biology. You're stuck with a curse? You're executed, no attempts to heal you.

Their society seems to run on an ideal model of person which depends on factors outside the individual's control, and whoever doesn't fit this description and deviates from the group in any shape or form gets ridiculously fierce punishment. They make the freaking Church look good by comparison, at least their repressive and racist side is composed of extremists instead of everymen.

The Clan Identity (Chloé, and partially Noé again)

Chloé identifies with a group of people too; but it's not a race, it's a family. The D'Apchier family, the nobles who are responsible for Gevaudan. Her father made sure she had this idea in her right from the start, and she interiorized it.

And this had mixed results: while on the one hand she was chained to self-loathing by the guilt of having accidentally caused the massacre of the family and was only saved by Jeanne and Jean-Jacques reclaiming her as part of theirs, on the other she was able to resist to Naenia because of the love and responsibility she felt towards the people of Gevaudan. Chloé is, at this point, the only curse-bearer who managed to trick and attempted to fight directly against Charlatan.

Then there is Noé in relation to his Archiviste identity. He seems to think of it mainly in negative terms, very conscious of the living invasion of privacy it turns him into ... and nothing else. We have never seen him wonder about who his birth parents were, ask himself why he doesn't remember anything, why was the clan exterminated, or how he feels about being a survivor, one of the only ones if not outright the only. He sees his heritage as a burden,and hasn't thought of it in any different term. I wonder how a change in perspective could impact the above 'stable identity'.

The Someone Else's Identity (Vanitas, Dominique)

I already dedicated a whole post to this trait they share, so I'll be short: both Vanitas and Dominique hate themselves and try to become something worthy by taking elements of people they admire: Louis for Dominique, a combination of his birth father and Luna for Vanitas.

The Object Identity (Jeanne)

The very first thing Jeanne was said in her whole life was that she was an object. A vessel for something (or someone?) else, who mustn't have feelings or desires of her own. Encouraging, isn't it?

Luckily, this wasn't all she got in life. Soon afterwards, she was adopted by Eric and Louise, who loved her a lot, received kindness by Ruthven, met Chloé who became an older sister to her. Unluckily, all of this was taken away from her in the most cruel way possible.

She couldn't make any sense of her parents's betrayal and death, and the way her life suddenly changed; she rationalised it by telling herself that it was her fault, if she had been just the good object everyone told her to be nothing would have happened. So she accepts the Object Identity: she is a tool, so she doesn't feel, she exists only to obey orders, and as long as she is nobody else will ever suffer. It gets even worse after she fails to kill Chloè: she couldn't fulfill her duties, and both her and her big sis suffered for it. This mindset traps her in a world of pain, but also prevents her from facing the fact that she is subject to a senseless injustice, one she has no control over.

Vanitas managed to help her with that. He validated her feelings, and showed her that nobody had to die if she had them, solving the situation with Chloé and Jean-Jacques. This gave her a nice confidence boost, returning her to the cheerful attitude she had as a young girl; the consequences of this change remain to be seen.

The Unknown Identity (Luna)

This one is interesting because Luna themselves is pretty explicit about it. They see themselves as something 'other', who is outside commonly used categorization; starting with 'male or female' (and here I am left wondering if they had specific sexual characteristics but didn't feel like they 'fit', or were intersex and nonbinary, or had an entirely different biology from both vampires and humans).

Luna doesn't like this condition: they said they tried to figure out what they were, to understand themselves, and they regret doing so now. Why? Maybe they didn't find any answer and were left perpetually unsatisfied, or they found an answer, and they found it to be awful?

Still, this indicates Luna has never been particularly happy with themselves, and this found no resolution. And then they died. Nice, uh?

Well, I think this was all. There are other characters I would like to know more about in regard to this, like Ruthven, Marquis Machina, and Mikhail, but there is still time.

All in all, I'd say Vanitas no Carte explores the theme of identity pretty throughly; many character arcs are still in progress, and I'm interested about how things will develope especially for Vanitas, Dominique and Jeanne.

Thanks to anyone who bothered to read my ramblings!

#vnc #vanitas no carte #the case study of vanitas #vnc meta #vnc analysis #vnc noe #vnc chloé #vnc vanitas #vnc dominique #vnc jeanne #vnc luna #elia's recaps

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hellsbellschime · 3 years

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Ok, so I’ve always noticed some of the racism on TVD , most notably the treatment of Marcel and Emily, and the founders day parade episode (which, as a Virginian I have to say that the episode made me low-key ashamed when I re-watched it years later). But it took me a while to catch onto the racism on Bonnie‘s character. I was wondering if you have done a meta about it and could link me to it, or if you could do one?

Well it only took me like a year but here ya go!

youtube

Despite the fact that The Vampire Diaries is a show that was ostensibly created for girls and young women, the show undeniably seems to lack a certain level of respect or basic interest in its female characters. And while every single significant female character demonstrates that misogynistic point of view in one way or another, one of the most unique, distinct, and apparent instances of The Vampire Diaries' sexism is on peak display with one of it's leading female characters, Bonnie Bennett.

Bonnie obviously occupies a particularly interesting role in the series because she's the only black leading character, and it's also hard to miss that The Vampire Diaries universe has a pretty apparent issue with it's non-white characters as well.

The race problem on TVD expresses itself in a few different, extremely blatant ways. The most obvious issue with people of color on The Vampire Diaries is that those who are actually PoC within the narrative itself are typically pushed to the sidelines and relegated to supporting players at best, but there is also an issue with presenting PoC performers who are white-passing as white characters.

None of the PoC characters in The Vampire Diaries get very good treatment, but the series seems to be exceptionally problematic when it comes to its presentation of black characters. While black people arguably get more representation than any other non-white characters in this fictional world, they are almost all outrageously attractive, extremely light-skinned, and conveniently lacking in any emotional needs or inner life that needs to be addressed within the narrative, seemingly designed to show up, perform whatever service is necessary, and once again fade into the background if not just be killed off entirely.

This is an issue with every black character in the series, but given that Bonnie is the most significant and prominent in the series, it comes as no surprise that she was affected the most intensely by these biases. It's one thing to be a black character, it's one thing to be a female character, but being a black female character in the TVD universe is exceptionally crippling. But how exactly did the misogynoir of The Vampire Diaries completely neutralize Bonnie Bennett as a character?

Bonnie was mistreated, dismissed, and outright ignored in many big and small ways throughout the course of the show. But, a lot of that treatment can be pretty easily sorted into a few categorizations. The Vampire Diaries went through a pretty seismic shift from the start of the show to the end, but it has always been a series that falls primarily into two genres, the supernatural thriller genre and the romance genre.

The show pretty clearly transformed from a show that was firstly a supernatural story with a romantic subgenre into an almost entirely romantic story with a supernatural backdrop, but it's safe to say that the vast majority of the plotlines were either focused on magic or love. And, it's not particularly difficult to see how Bonnie was forcibly excluded from a predominant storyline in each genre, even when it made absolutely no sense.

Bonnie was a completely inexperienced witch at the start of TVD, so her cluelessness and powerlessness made a certain amount of sense at that point. But by the end of season 2 at the very latest, it seems fully established that she is one of the most powerful living witches in the world, and for the bulk of the series it is plainly acknowledged that she is one of the most powerful witches who ever lived. Which is exactly why Bonnie's position in the narrative is baffling.

In quite a few instances, Bonnie's magical abilities seem to be somewhat inconsistent, at least in the sense that, if she can solve some of the biggest problems that the Mystic Falls gang is confronted with, then it's very odd that she can't solve the others. And while plenty of characters in TVD are occasionally used as plot devices rather than characters, Bonnie seems to be the one who is specifically designed to show up, fix what needs fixing, and then become set dressing once she's no longer necessary as the mystical solution to every unsolvable issue.

And this is actually a significant problem with the witches at large, but of course is most recognizable with Bonnie because she is the most prominent witch. While not all witches are women of color, it seems like they are far more represented in that faction of the magical world than in any other. So then, it's interesting that the witches are presented as servants of nature who are meant to selflessly restore order to the world without actually using their abilities for their own personal gain.

Of course there are plenty of witches who appear to use their powers for themselves, but still, it's incredibly meaningful that the lone black main character in the series is constantly sacrificing herself for the sake of the otherwise entirely white cast of characters. It's even more meaningful that she seems to willingly put herself in the line of fire every time, and it's also extremely telling that she suffers and even dies without complaint for the sake of other people.

And while TVD has never been the kind of show to linger on emotional moments for too long, Bonnie seems to stick out like a sore thumb in this circumstance as well. Most of the main and even supporting characters have moments where their pain is acknowledged and at least has a second to breathe, but there are quite a few situations where Bonnie should be upset but isn't, or where her emotional journey as a character literally takes place off screen.

This lack of acknowledgment and nearly complete omission of an internal emotional life that doesn't involve sacrificing herself for her friends only further makes Bonnie feel like a plot device instead of a character. And, while no character needs a romantic relationship to make their character complete, it is incredibly relevant that, on a series that was built largely on a foundation of romance and arguably became a completely romantically driven show by its end, only one of the female leads was pretty much never presented as a viable love interest.

Nearly every character is either threatened or charmed into doing what someone else wants them to at some point during The Vampire Diaries, however, Bonnie's charm-to-threaten ratio seems to lean very heavily in favor of threatening. That in itself wouldn't necessarily be a huge issue, but it seems to punish Bonnie in a way that is so severe that it's completely illogical.

Trying to intimidate Elena or Caroline, people who at best have the strength of a baby vampire and at worst are as powerful as a normal human, makes sense. But trying to strongarm the most powerful witch in the world instead of just convincing her to do what you ask seems like an incredibly dangerous and completely baffling decision.

And yet, that is how Bonnie is forced to do nearly everything that she doesn't want to do in eight seasons of the series. By the end of season 2, TVD has canonically confirmed that Bonnie is powerful enough to destroy Klaus Mikaelson, and yet people like Klaus, Katherine, and even vampires as young as Damon get Bonnie to do things by simply bullying or even assaulting her into doing it. And what does Bonnie typically do in response? Absolutely nothing.

At a certain point, the consistent contrast between Bonnie's mystical strength and the way that people treat her in order to use that strength becomes a pretty gaping plot hole. And while it's not unheard of for someone to try to sweet talk Bonnie into joining their team, it is almost always done by a character who is far less powerful than she is and who is completely irrelevant to the narrative at large.

In contrast to characters like Elena and Caroline, the distinction between them becomes even more obvious. Perhaps a thin argument could be made that because Elena is a doppelganger that makes her a tad more unique, but when one of the most powerful creatures on the planet was wrapped around Caroline's finger, it really begs the question, why wasn't anyone ever as invested or even obsessed with Bonnie as they were with the other two female leads on the series?

After all, Elena's love was consistently treated as if it was the greatest prize that anyone could possibly win, and the two male leads were completely obsessed with her and willing to do anything they could to try to win her over. And despite the fact that Elena was at the center of the love triangle that was a significant driving force behind the story for the entire series, she still managed to score a few love interests that weren't Salvatores throughout the show's eight seasons as well.

And, while Caroline was actually treated as more of the reject love interest in comparison to the unattainable Elena, her record with romance is also incredibly varied. Even though she was portrayed at best as the consolation prize and at worst the abuse victim, she did have some sort of romantic relationship with the two male leads in the show. Or at least, that is how The Vampire Diaries chose to portray it.

In addition to her horrorshow with Damon and her incredibly brief marriage with Stefan, Caroline is also a love interest for Klaus, Matt, Tyler, and disgustingly, Alaric. Arguably the only main male character who doesn't serve as Caroline's love interest or potential love interest at any point is Jeremy.

Although this laundry list of love interests can be partially excused by the fact that Caroline is characterized as someone who wants to date a lot, the contrast bet0ween characters like Caroline and Elena and characters like Bonnie is astonishing.

Over a nearly decade-long run, Bonnie's only legitimate leading men are Jeremy, Elena's kid brother who Bonnie will willingly die for but who also prefers a literal dead person over her at one point, and Enzo, her epic love romance that comes about at the very end of the series in a relationship that almost entirely develops off-screen.

Of course, female characters do not need love interests to validate their characterization or very existence, however in an environment where every single barely significant supporting character seems to get at least two love interests, it's incredibly telling that Bonnie Bennett gets two important love stories in eight seasons of storytelling.

It seems even more relevant that the show seemingly went out of its way to sidestep almost any and all opportunities for romance in Bonnie's character arc. Whether it was Kol, Kai, or Damon Salvatore, there were quite a few instances where there was a clear and easy route to develop a love interest for Bonnie in a way that made sense and had a pretty solid amount of audience support, and yet the series always went out of its way to avoid it.

In stark contrast, Caroline is still seen as a viable option for a burgeoning love story when she's pregnant, and Elena is an acceptable love interest when she's literally unconscious. And yet, in a series that began with romance as its secondary genre and that evolved into a romance series with a supernatural backdrop, Bonnie is supposedly not as appealing of a love interest as Elena and Caroline regardless of any circumstances, no matter how insane.

If these issues existed in a vacuum then they might be excusable, but considering how poorly The Vampire Diaries treated its female characters and black characters, it's pretty much impossible to avoid the reality that Bonnie Bennett's entire character arc was likely hamstrung by the fact that she was a black girl.

In any reasonable circumstances, Bonnie would have arguably been at the center of every single supernatural storyline, and she logically would have been a far more appealing love interest to any powerful characters in the series. But instead she spent the vast majority of her screentime with her inner characterization ignored, her personal development unexplored, and serving as little more than a glorified deus ex machina who didn't even want her friends to bother mourning her when she literally sacrificed her life for them.

Representation was always an issue in The Vampire Diaries universe, and unfortunately it seems like Bonnie was the definition of their token black character. Although the series had eight entire years to course correct and had many seasons where they were desperate for new ideas and decent character development, the racism and misogyny of the series seemingly prevented them from ever tapping into the enormous untapped potential of someone who should have been one of their flagship lead characters.

#bonnie bennett #anti tvd #anti the vampire diaries #misogynoir #racism #sexism #misogyny #tvd #the vampire diaries #bonnie bennett meta #anti tvd meta #tvd meta #meta #my videos

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usernamesuggestionsarefunny · 2 years

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interesting that the @rya stan claims they would support Sansa having an extramarital affair with the Hound basically bc it's giving a woman agency in a society that marries them off like broodmares. Right. Except Sansa had no more agency with Joffrey and they 200% blame everything bad that happened with him on her.

Hypocrites... they're not fooling anyone.

And it is so clear this theory is what it is because it is bad for Sansa, not because they think it would be groundbreakingly feminist or woke or whatever in comparison to what us evil “purity loving” Sansa Stans want for her character. They don’t even know a) IF Sansa will even get married to Harry the Heir, most likely not, especially considering she already is technically to Tyrion and that has to come up at some point. b) If she DOES get married, whether Harry will turn out to be a dick to her. All they have as evidence for his supposed abusiveness are somewhat rude behaviors they wouldn’t bat an eye on coming from the likes of Sandor, who literally tried to rape her. What a nerve to claim to want Sansa having agency and then proceeding to ship her to someone who assaulted her as a little girl. Reminds me of those people who defend romances with male character who abuse their female love interests because “welLL WOmEn and gIrLs LIKE it soo…”

It is also out of character whether that makes us purity freaks or not. The theory stands soley on the idea that IF Sansa marries him, Harry will be straight up abusive, or at least a one dimensional dick forever without any sort of depth or character development whatsoever. I think both are unlikely or at least unproven (Pedoshippers love to demonize Harry and blow his canon flaws out of proportion because his existence means that… *gasp* Sansa doesn't need an abusive pedophile twice her age to "put her in her place" or even to have a romance with a diamond-in-the-rough-type character, which is what they claim to love so much about their pedoships) and we see in her chapters Sansa is willing to TRY to love any man she has become engaged to, starting by Joffrey whom she didn’t actually choose, thinking about Willas with hope, etc. Even with Tyrion she remembered what her septa said and tried to find beauty in him. It is sad and wrong she has had to do that, especially at such a young age, but that is just how she is. Trying to make the best out of her bad circumstances is as part of her as it is for Arya to fight injustice, and if Harry turns out not to be as bad as we initially thought, I can't see what Sansa would gain by having an affair outside of a marriage with someone she may come to love in time and even prove an influential and good enough ally to get her home back. This trait of hers might just finally bear fruit, which I can BET her haters would not enjoy to see happening because it means she will not have to become the opposite of what she is in order to “redeem” herself.

Edit: it is also not the extramarital-affair-due-to-arranged-marriage thing that bothers me as much, but a) the fact they want it to happen with one of her abusers and b) the fact for that to happen Sansa needs to experience abuse, disillusionment, and/or heartbreak AGAIN for no freaking reason. She already learnt her "lesson", alright? She was already beaten by the handsome prince who murdered her father. She has already been assaulted countless times. She already mistrusts Harry. She already thinks no one will ever marry her for love. What new thing does her story have to gain from the loveless marriage-affair premise? Literally nothing. It would be like Arya being treated with even more violence and trauma in the next book without being able to do anything, as if she didn't already know the smallfolk are treated horribly and that it needs to change. It would be useless and done for shock value, "oh look how the girl who dreamed of love can only find it under the worst of circumstances after years of abuse that lead to no personal gain but her running off with one of her abusers, one who lusted after her even as a little girl no less, so grimdark and bittersweet, so smart". That person just likes it for Sansa because it is bad for her. Sure this is GRRM, and he did tease bittersweet, but they conveniently forget that time he trashed the "highborn girl runs away with the stableboy" trope lol

#anti arya stans #anti sansan

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wolfsneedles · 3 years

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when cersei says, "she had a warrior heart, but the gods in their blind malice had given her the feeble body of a woman"

i actually felt it. no not the way she does ofc since she is essentially an antagonistic character but more like, the comparisons she makes the way she hates her own sex and wants power how she assumes herself as tywins daughter and how jaime thinks she call herself tywin lannister with teats, all point to her major disgusting internal conflict. ofc when we later see walk of shame it was worse the comments thrown on her body. in first books when we never had her pov i thought she too would admire herself her beauty, however cersei, in all her honestly hates her female traits and doesn't flaunt her beauty like i always thought or got idea from in first books. she is very mean and dehumanising to women and sees them inferiorly, not to say she herself was treated with a lot of hatred and sexism and then sold to marry a man she doesn't desire who himself was brutal on her, however i think she would have never been personally happy with anyone. cersei sees the entire point of being woman to please men with what she tells sansa, and then to be used as woman too . she doesn't like or meets appreciates strong women she hasn't seen or met dany obv neither would she ever have pleasant thoughts about brienne and arya even, she comments sometimes how woman is pretty but she herself always reduces her worth and others to just a girl to be sold and mounted. ofc her internal conflict i find is v interesting and confusing at times. she hates women but also wants other to accept her everything her every cruel practices even perhaps as woman. she doesn't like being woman to please people at all, yet its so sad and helpless to see her try to tempt jaime or osney even later just so they could listen to her. she hates the rampant sexism and misogyny in westeros even exhibited by her brothers and father but she doesn't realise she is using the same notion and definitions of sexism people have about women to demean and hate woman around her. its like she hates men definitely but she hates doing effort herself too to be a same female figure or woman we see other asoiaf women exhibit or do.

i was wondering if her behaviour towards women themselves, how she sees them inferior even when the men around her aren't seeing them like this, but she sees women with sexist approach too she mentions about rape or septa being or longing for rape, she ridicules and discusses margaerys virginity so much, she talks about uncensored stuff to sansa lol, when she is young girl literally, points to the fact how blunt and hateful cersei is of herself but also of female definition. i think this has a lot to do with her maybe not having to experience a mothers love??? i never liked how she was always surrounded ironically by men around her. we never see major strong female lannister representation i just realised. we only see or hear about tywin who had brutal approach to westeros the, holier-than-thou approach. we see jaime who is prob not worse like tywin at all but he also constantly tries to berate and pass quite nauseating remarks for women and ill hold this opinion about him until i see him say sorry to brienne lol (not to mention he does not hate women as whole even as being a man), we see tyrion also not really ideal partner and excessively morally grey character although i have never or maybe remember sexist or extremely insensitive remarks about women by tyrion until we see him in adwd only blurting out pretty worse sentences and maybe acting same like his father, and then we just know kevan who always well * saw cersei as not so perfect person and is kind of weird to her or idk maybe i never liked that lad because he also kind of sexualised her in childhood as cersei says maybe that men never looked at her like they do at others and she was seen with different eyes, all this time i wonder kind of where was tywin though he could have given or taught her good wholehearted valuable values anyway my anti tywin agenda not here today*, and then we see lancel, well for all we know he slept with her too but its just weird again that she slept with him to get rid of her obnoxious husband and well, lancel doesn't really hurt her though or ever saw her like her brothers do, considering his religious changes. but all this time im wondering cersei kind of missed having any wholesome woman in her life as, friend or companion which contributes to her internalised misogyny even more (its like she is opposite of catelyn hundred percent but cat also has internalised misogyny and i realised she never had loving sister cousin friend or companion) maybe im not thinking right but doesn't it click to u all that they both esp cersei of course see women in diff colours and not like how arya dany sansa brienne see women, because they lacked any stronger female character to look upto too. cats treatment of jon which is separate thing was quite questionable and so how she feels weird too when she sees mya stone! but cat or cersei never both, confronted their husbands or told them anything or even discussed any issues with them (this is for cat esp when she should have been angry over ned for jon :/ but she changed her energy to jon) . and it makes me wonder its also because they both were raised in a v male dominated society with diff kinds of fathers, uncles and brothers, that cersei especially has diff notion to what a random woman outside castle would even look like or act like and that all of them aren't really linked to their virginity or marriages and babies. i dont think ofc she would have been different if she had wholesome female friend but she did or should have had someone as girl who had her back when she was growing up???

(btw this isn't pro cersei thing at all - i was kind of horrified by her analysis of women we get to see in affc and then the melara thing at her young age was well fked up also pinching tyrion when he was baby "until he cried" or calling him "little monster" or whatever shows infact how she is quite disdainful of men like tyrion too and not just women. i was wondering maybe her losing joanna maybe played significant role only that being said, she is biggest antiparallel to dany and catelyn! )

#cersei lannister #meta #cersei lannister asoiaf #tyrion lannister #jaime lannister #asoiaf #valyrianscrolls #catelyn tully #asongoficeandfire #house lannister #tywin lannister #ok i hate tywin too

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elencelebrindal · 3 years

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Female Cloths that have no reason to exist

You all know what I’m talking about, right? Yeah, you do. You absolutely do.

I’m talking about three specific instances of Silver Cloths that, instead of looking like armor and acting like armor, are more like... oh, you’re a girl? Let’s show that body! Let’s have nothing but a pathetic excuse of armor that should you try to fight will have you easily stabbed in the guts.

What pisses me off is not the (bad) design itself. It’s the fact that the Silver Cloths are described are armors that cover the body more than the Bronze Cloths. Yet, we have Marin, Shain and Yuzuriha wearing nothing. These Cloths should adapt to the body of the wearer, right? Well, I want you to imagine how those pathetic armors would adapt to a man’s body. It’s so painfully clear that those armors (or lack of armors) were designed without keeping practicality in mind, but just to have something revealing.

This is a really long post, so I’m hiding it under the “read more”, but I wanted to put my thoughts out there because I’m honestly tired.

We have example of functional armor. We have June (who’s still better in Awakening as far as design goes, imo), and we have Thetis.

So first of all, let’s take a look at those good ones, shall we?

This is, in my opinion, one of the best armors I’ve seen worn by a woman on this series. It’s not different from an armor you would see a man wear, just adapted to fit a woman’s body. It has everything; gauntlets, boots, cuirass, pauldrons... nothing’s missing. A perfect example of how an armor should look. Not a comparison for a Silver Cloth, because the probability of a Silver Cloth having less pieces is high, but a comparison between a good decision and a bad decision.

This is really good for a Bronze Cloth. The amount of armor, given the description of those Cloths, is perfect. She has everything, and at the same time not too much, perfect for an armor of that rank, since we know that the Bronze Cloth cover the smallest amount of the body when compared to Silver and Gold. The only thing I don’t like is that she has an impossible “catsuit” (I really don’t have any better ways to call that) under it. It would make way more sense if the upper part was more like a tank top, than whatever sorcery is going on. You ever tried to wear sleeveless anything? You know that stuff slips off continuously. Aside from that, she’s amazing.

The main reason why I wanted to present these examples to you is to clarify that I’m not complaining about how much of the body is shown. There’s plenty more male characters that literally are unable to stay dressed on this show (Shiryu, I’m talking to you, wear a goddamn shirt for once). I’m complaining about how unfair it is to have female characters being so... in a way, objectified. We have good examples, so why not using those examples for characters that should need more than what they’re given?

To make this even more clear, another armor that has no reason to exist is this:

Because honestly, a Surplice covering nothing of importance is really useful.

I’m focusing on the female characters here because, while half a Surplice is bad, is not as bad as women wearing Silver Cloths that are supposed to be a better protection than Bronze Cloths and instead they get to wear metallic underwear.

This little armor:

only makes sense for a Bronze Saint. They are supposed not to have a lot of it. And yet, this example in particular has more pieces than the classic Eagle Cloth. It does nothing, but it literally covers more than a Silver Cloth. This armor also has boots, of course.

Let’s tackle the problem, shall we?

Try to convince me that she’s not wearing just a goddamn metal bra. Come on. This is not armor. This is Marin opening her closet, finding one of her fanciest bras, and wearing it alongside those gifts that are actual armor parts.

The smallest Bronze Cloth of the classic series has a large total of pieces. Boots, gauntlets, some kind of cuirass, pauldrons, knee guards, helmet (in Saint Seiya the definition of helmet is weird, by now we know). Some of them also have those pieces that in a suit of armor could be faulds or tassets, some of them have simple belts, some have cuissess. Give or take 1 to 3 pieces, basically. The smallest proper Silver Cloth has the same pieces, only they cover much more of the body. Or at least, they should, but we have examples of Silver Cloths literally being the same as Bronze Cloths. It makes me kinda frustrated, but knowing that those armors are stronger gives me a bit of peace. The best Silver Cloth is the Lyra Cloth, obviously, since it actually matches the description accordingly.

So... we have what? 2 for the boots, 2 for the gauntlets, 1 for cuirass, 2 for the pauldrons, 2 for the knee guards, 1 for the helmet, and give or take 1-3 pieces for the “optional” ones I mentioned. It’s 10 pieces of armor.

How many pieces is the Eagle Cloth composed of? 0 boots, 1 gauntlet, 1 breastplate (in absence of other words to call that), 1 plauldron, 2 knee guards, 1 helmet. It’s 6 pieces of armor. She’s supposed to have the same, if not more, compared to a Bronze.

Not only that, have you seen what she’s wearing under it? How is that even remotely comfortable in battle? You know how many times that weird... what the hell is that? A tight high sock? would slip down during a fight? Unless she glued it in place, I highly doubt it’s a good fighting outfit. It would have been better for her to wear either a single catsuit, or even to keep the leotard but have both of the red tights (preferably leggings uh, you don’t go to battle in tights) be a full piece.

The manga armor actually has one more piece. It’s not much, but it’s something. It resembles way more how other Cloth’s are treated, when the breastplate is so small. However, it’s still missing boots. There’s literally no other Cloth, save for Ophiuchus, that doesn’t have boots. What now, they are too much for a woman to handle? June and Thetis have boots. Marin gets leg warmers and shoes she has to personally provide, apparently, because her Cloth is a discount one. I get that it has to resemble an eagle, but come on. There’s totems depicting smaller animals that have more stuff.

This artwork I found is from CamilleAddams on Deviantart:

See how easy is to give her a proper armor? It’s still missing the boots, but it’s already much better. It looks like a Silver Cloth, now. And this is only one of the many “updates” I’ve seen made by artists way more talented that I could ever aspire to be.

This is my own sketch of a proper Eagle Cloth:

Is this really so unrealistic? To have an actually good Cloth for a Silver Saint?

Now, time to take a look at Shaina.

How many pieces is this armor comprised of? 1 breastplate, 2 pauldrons, 0 boots, 1 gauntlet, 1 helmet, 2 knee guards. A total of 7 pieces, just one more that Eagle. 3 less than a basic Bronze Cloth.

The same exact discourse applies to the Ophiuchus Cloth. Copy-paste what I wrote for the Eagle Cloth and use it here. Also the hot pink leg warmers paired with yellow HEELS (which yes, are stupid), green leggings and brown leotard are a spectacular combo. Who in the fresh hell decided the colors for her, this is a disaster more than her Cloth.

At least she actually has no gaps between leotard and (hopefully) leggings.

I can’t believe I’m actually saying this, but the Omega Ophiuchus Cloth is so much better than this, at least in base concept. The art is as ugly as my face in the morning, but the concept is legit.

Look at this, ridiculous but PROPER armor.

Once again, the manga has one more piece. It looks like she’s not wearing shoes, but it’s the manga, I give that a pass.

But this particular Cloth makes me unbelievably angry, and you know why? Because the Ophiuchus Gold Cloth exists. And the Ophiuchus Gold Cloth is the proof that this thing doesn’t need to be so useless, because if that can be proper armor, this could be as well. It’s a design choice, and it’s a poor one to say the least.

Look at the Gold Ophiuchus Cloth (render by LadyHeinstein on Deviantart):

Look at this, and tell me that a decent suit of armor couldn’t be conjured for the Silver Cloth as well. The Ophiuchus constellation is literally a man holding a snake. There’s no excuse for not having a human-like Cloth like, I don’t know, the Andromeda Cloth. Instead, Shaina gets a version that’s not even half a human figure, with nothing to wear but discounted armor that honestly should go straight back to the shop where it came from.

This is what makes me even angrier when it comes to this particular Cloth.

Again, this is an “updated” version of the Ophiuchus Cloth by CamilleAddams on Deviantart:

See how much better it is? How much more realistic it looks, when it comes to Saint armor? It looks like a proper Silver Cloth like this, even with no boots.

In comparison, here’s my own sketch (much lower quality, I know) of the Cloth:

It’s not that difficult! Just have them wear the same stuff their companions wear, is this so much to ask?

But now we come to the best one. Peak character design. So amazingly appropriate for battle that it’s stunning. Crane Yuzuriha from The Lost Canvas.

What. The. Absolute. Fuck.

How is that a Silver Cloth? How is that a Cloth? Come on!

Leaving aside the fact that I hate how she doesn’t wear the mask (I made a post about this whole issue, back in the day, I’ll try to link it as soon as I can), she has basically no armor on expect for her legs and arms. Whatever bullshit is going on on her chest is everything but armor. She has sandals, for gods sake. Sandals. You don’t want to be a Saint wearing sandals, this is not Ancient Romans having wars for breakfasts, this is a supernatural warrior constantly kicking the shit out of stone and trees (generally speaking). How are sandals something appropriate for a Saint? This is the same exact stuff I wrote for the skirts of the Saintias, it’s not appropriate for the setting.

But let’s leave this, and let’s tackle what she (doesn’t) wear under her armor. Yuzuriha, my dear, I know that you have abs of steel and you want to show off, but that’s an excellent way to get injured all over with no effort whatsoever. Unless you have invulnerable skin, you’d want to wear something better than booty shorts and bandages that are apparently glued on her boobs. Wear at least something like June, if you don’t want to have sleeves. This is a design flaw, not something beautiful. The concept is good on its own, but a Saint should NOT be dressed like that. They’re constanly being thrown at whatever surface is the hardest at the moment. Imagine your bare skin sliding at the speed of sound on rocks and dirt. It’s not only unpractical, is technically dangerous. And I get it, this is an anime, everyone is invulnerable unless blood is needed, but even then this is utterly ridiculous.

And now, the most ridiculous thing of them all: the breastplate. It’s literally two sheets of silver feathers apparently glued to her skin. Nothing more. It’s not armor, it just... it’s literally nothing. She’s better off not wearing it, at this point, because it’s useless.

She would just need a better breastplate/cuirass for that Cloth to be appropriate. Everything else is fine (minus the heels, but at this point why do I even try). In comparison, a male Saint wearing that Cloth would probably end up shirtless, either the Cloth adjusts itself to the body or not. Who in their right mind would go in battle shirtless????? (yeah yeah, Shiryu and Dohko, but those two have armor on when they don’t act like strippers, at least pay them good money dammit).

What infuriates me is knowing how the other Silver Cloths are like. It’s painfully obvious that Yuzuriha had to be the edgy woman with revealing clothes and armor, when you look at the REAL Silver Cloths of this series.

Those shrtless dudes also want trouble, but at least they are somewhat covered. They still need to wear a goddamn shirt, but they also have more armor. Why they can be THIS normal, but Yuzuriha has to look like she lost half her armor in a dumpster fire and tried to make to with the remnants?

I really like her as a character, and I don’t mind her wearing what she wears (dude, she’s can afford to dress like that, I wish), but the Cloth is terrible.

The women in Saint Seiya Omega were better equipped than these three poor souls. I don’t like that series at all, and I forgot at least half of it (if not more) since the last time (aka the first) I watched it, but they do have more properly designed armors. These three - Marin, Shaina, and Yuzuriha - are a perfect example of what you don’t have to do when designing armor for female characters, unless you don’t actually need the armor and it just aesthetic. June and Thetis, on the other hand, are the perfect example of what you HAVE to do when designing armor for female characters, following the circumstances and the setting.

Thank you for reading my (way too long) essay. Have a good day.

#saint seiya #i cavalieri dello zodiaco #los caballeros del zodiaco #os cavaleiros do zodiaco #knights of the zodiac #the lost canvas #silver saints #bronze saints #eagle marin #ophiuchus shaina #crane yuzuriha

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