#i need these beliefs discussed and debunked | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

alasse-earfalas · 10 months

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Let’s clear some things up.

"omg you hate queer people!!"

No, we don't. There's several queer people in the server and we've all gotten along just fine, in fact we've had some wonderful conversations discussing our different views. The reason we marketed our server as a “conservative Christian server” is because that’s primarily who we’re trying to find. Other people with different beliefs and ways of life are welcome to join so long as they’re respectful.

"but you said you're anti-Pride!!"

Admittedly, this was due to a misunderstanding of what that term means to a lot of people. The "pride movement" and LGBT people are not the same thing to me. Clearly they are to a lot of people, so I understand the confusion. I used this terminology because I’ve seen others in the LGBT community make this distinction in terms, but I understand now that this distinction is not as widespread as I thought it was.

Allow me to clarify: When I say we "don't support the Pride movement", I'm talking specifically about the political movement that advocates for giving porn to young kids in school, putting them through medical procedures they are too young to consent to, and viciously attacking, harassing, and silencing anyone who brings up concerns about these things. Obviously this is not all of the LGBT community, nor would I ever insinuate that. But it is a very vocal and nasty subset of it, and it's a subset we want nothing to do with.

"queered into oblivion"

If it's wrong to straightwash queer characters (and I believe that it is), then it's wrong to queerwash straight characters. Many of the Links are canonically straight in the games, and all of them are portrayed as straight in LU (I don't have the time to go into all the evidence for this right now, but it's there if you look). If you want more queer representation in media—which is totally valid!—go make your own queer characters and give them an engaging story. I've seen it done and it's great! Queerwashing established characters is lazy, disrespectful, and just as offensive as straightwashing. So we're not allowing that in our server.

"youre banning people just because they're queer!! I was banned and I didn't break any of the rules!"

If we banned people just for being queer, we wouldn't have any queer people in the server, and I've already debunked that.

As for the second point: Yes, I have banned people wrongly and I apologize for that. This is largely thanks to a constant bombardment of malicious trolls, many of whom pretend to come to us with good intentions, only to wreak havoc once they're granted access to the server. So I am being a bit overzealous with the ban hammer at the moment because we've been burned too many times. It's hard to tell anymore who wants to have a civil discussion and who's just biding their time. If you feel you were banned wrongfully, please reach out to me in dms and we can discuss the matter.

Another quick point I want to make is that our current server rules are due for revision. Now that we've spent some time open to the public, we have a better understanding of what kinds of rules our server needs. So, yes, we're not going to be strictly sticking to our rules right now because we're in the process of tweaking them. I understand that’s frustrating but there’s only so much we can juggle at once.

"the people in your server are so mean! You don't even talk about loz stuff!"

It's kinda hard to relax and nerd out with your buddies when raiders are lighting your house on fire. We've been burned and we're on edge. I won't ask for anyone in the server to be excused for bad behavior, but I will ask for patience.

Part of the reason I'm bothering to write this whole thing out in the first place is so we can stop repeating ourselves on these points. Many of the trolls we've dealt with have started out "respectfully disagreeing" with us only to turn nasty and crude. So now whenever there's a disagreement, it puts everyone on edge.

Before we opened this server up to the public it was just a private little place for me and some friends, and we all happened to share similar beliefs so it turned into a bit of an echo chamber. Please don’t take our old conversations as representative of the current people in the server. We did talk about LoZ stuff, and we still do, but we’ve also got two general chats and a place to discuss controversial topics. And, as I already mentioned, we’re a little preoccupied with the trolling situation.

Now that we’ve gotten all of that out of the way, here’s a non-exhaustive sampling of what we’ve been dealing with over the past few days:

typical troll spam: inappropriate images, death threats, etc.

sleeper trolls: people who come into the server pretending to be there in good faith in order to gain access to the server, and then wreaking havoc. Several of these have been… obnoxiously “Christian”, to the point where I was in the middle of typing up a “knock it off” message when they decided to oust themselves.

false accusations and even outright lies from people on tumblr who’ve “checked out” the server and then left. Idk why people do this. We’ve been baselessly accused of antisemitism among other things.

vicious asks about this issue sent to tumblr blogs who have no affiliation with our server.

I’d like to point out here that for being such a “hateful” server, none of the mods (I can’t speak for the other people in the server obviously) have ever done any of this, to anyone, nor would we. I’ve spoken about people using their (real or perceived) victim status as a cudgel to beat others with, and this is a fine example of that. You wonder why we’re trying to make a safe space? Because this is what happens when we share what we believe. You claim we have “institutional power” or whatever and yet we can’t set up and advertise a freaking discord server without people going on a witch hunt.

I have had a few people reach out to me in kindness, and I want to let those people know that it’s really meant a lot to me. I expected trolls and some lashback but the maliciousness has been something else. I’m sorry to anyone on tumblr who’s been attacked over this, I don’t know why people are going after blogs that have no affiliation with this server, it’s disgraceful and disgusting.

Hopefully what I’ve written here clears up some of the misunderstandings. We appreciate anyone who’s willing to hear us out rather than jumping to conclusions. Take care everyone.

#linkeduniverse #linked universe #lu #discord server

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beyonsatan · 6 months

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We need to discuss sex in astrology girlies (will be debunking a few things and will also mention r*pe) 🤒

So let’s first go over what Mars and Venus rule in modern astrology

Venus - relationships, Art, beauty

Mars - sex, aggression, war, passion

Now let’s take a look at what significations these two planets have in Hellenistic astrology which is based in ancient cultures and spiritualities like Indian, Greek and middle eastern thousands of years ago before any social constructs were even able to plague our society

Venus - Marriage, Gold, jewelry, Sex, Pregnancy and love of children, pleasure seeking, intimacy, fun, art, wealth, good fortune, socializing, sweets. gets meaning from the 5th house

Mars - Conquest, Enemies, Separation, Abuse Celibacy, Action, War, danger, Injuries, Death, Sickness, Slaves, labor, evil play, hatred, bad fortune. Gets meaning from the 6th house

Now here’s some background as followed….

Modern astrology was invented in the 1900’s so themes of Christianity and Patriarchy had every opportunity before then to instill some of its values into the practice. the REASON why modern astrology keeps associating mars and Scorpio with sex is because Scorpio rules over the genitals but it only rules over the genitals and not sex at all in traditional astrology. We keep associating the planet of conquest that is mars with sex because we have been taught by a patriarchal and puritanical society to view sex as something that should only be done in secret, is hidden and/or otherwise taboo. When you associate the planet of “conquest” mars that is malefic dominant, wrong-doing, unethical, consumes wastefully and against the good will of others with intercourse, sex then sounds like something that’s exploitative and nonconsensual. Let’s imagine mars did rule sex which it objectively does not, rape would then be a huge theme of that. Mars in general does rule assault but there is nothing amorous and consenting about the red planet. You’re probably thinking to yourself “well patriarchy is at minimum 6000 years old” and you’re absolutely right, patriarchal values are really old but many ancient and indigenous societies had faiths and beliefs that transcended these values and this is what ancient astrology draws from.

I often talk with scorpios and mars ruled people who become frustrated every time at the thought of them being hypersexualized because of their sign and just overall not feeling like a sexual person at all so hopefully this brought some confirmation to any of you mars ruled or dominant people out there.

Hope this helps xx

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knightobreath · 3 months

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so... iii18, right? let's get into my theories. these all tie together in some way

mephone4s's return, or attempted return

My main theory coming out of this is the idea that Walkie is going to attempt to upgrade mephone4 back to 4s. this is mostly backed by potential foreshadowing. not only are there several references to 4s in the episode, but it is also possible that his voice can be barely heard during a point in mephone's dialogue. (EDIT: This was likely just me being overanalytical and not actual evidence. My bad!)

the amount of foreshadowing could lead to him reappearing as a construct or replica (i.e. springy's toys), but I think the second piece of evidence points to him returning through mephone4.

a bit more on this would be the fact that iii references season 1 a lot. think about tyler and the amount of times characters jumped off a cliff. iii was supposed to be the return to s1's tone, wasn't it? a parallel or reference to the finale is almost expected. especially since that already happened, as helpfully pointed out in the episode

i don't know why this would be the plan of action, possibly just to get rid of mephone. maybe I'm misreading the foreshadowing, im not sure.

walkie talkie is a meeple device or at least affiliated, and springy is a meeple generated construct

so there are a lot of questions when it comes to walkie talkie.

why does she want to take over the show?

why is she trying to delay its end?

why is she hiding her appearance?

how did she learn about iii in the first place?

where did she get the means to do any of this?

Walkie is obviously Cobs with a girl filter My theory is she is a Meeple device, or at least Meeple-affiliated. It would explain why she wants to keep the show running, as Meeple do profit off of it, and why she'd want to keep it at season 3, as s2 was decidedly anti-meeple.

Her being a meeple device would explain why she never shows herself or shares any details on her identity, as she would immediately lose trust with mephone.

also that "all we need is revolutionary technology!" line from episode 17? that was very interesting.

on top of that, she somehow knew practically everything about the third season before the airing of any in-universe episodes. importantly, she knew about the location of it. if my theory holds, that could easily be explained with her having access to meeple tech and therefore being able to track mephone.

regardless of her means, she's been watching.

as for springy, my main piece of evidence to him being a meeple-generated construct is how he glitches. he doesn't glitch like a robot, he glitches like a construct.

to show the contrast, i added mephone glitching. you can see that the glitch effect is only applied to his software, while springy and the glitched construct tree have the effect applied to their physical forms. (Ignore the fucked bitrate for the springy screenshot, youtube does not like the glitching)

on top of that, springy has his weird philosophies, fixation on robots, corporate everything, and suspicious spaceships.

i am of the belief that walkie may have orchestrated the sponsorship to get either closer to everything happening or more control.

I would go on, but I'm starting to lose steam, and I'm beginning to forget stuff. please add on if you can think of anything, or can debunk/criticize my theories. i would love a discussion

#ii spoilers #inanimate insanity #iii 18 #osc #knightext

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apollos-olives · 6 months

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Hi sorry Israeli Canadian anon from earlier. White gays are saying that Palestinians are homophobic??

(Admittedly, i am a white gay. I say that in the sense of "didn't realize ppl were doing this" and not in a distancing way to exempt myself from the shitty things us white gays do. I'm not perfect.)

Okay, putting aside how bullshit it is to label an entire ethnic group as being homophobic - do ppl think that Israel *isn't* homophobic?? Or transphobic for that matter? I actually happen to be trans and when I was changing my name and gender marker on my legal documents, I learned that I can't change my Israeli birth certificate bc to do so requires bottom surgery. Which I personally don't want or plan to get. To put that into perspective, canada (with all its bullshit facade of being such an ~accepting~ place) doesn't require that. Requiring bottom surgery to change gender marker is so fucking antiquated and transphobic.

Also, to be honest, even though I was born in Israel, I'm not super educated on all of the history. Part of that being because for so long I saw the discussion surrounding it being portrayed as oh so complicated. And then I realized that it really isn't. At its very core what it boils down to is: do you support genocide? If your answer is yes, then you support Israel. If your answer is no, then you support Palestine.

(Very much want to learn more about Palestinian history and Israeli occupation/apartheid. Do you have recommendations for articles/documentaries/etc on it?)

hi anon. and yeah. white gays, especially libs, constantly use the belief that all palestinians are homophobic (which also leads to islamophobic sentiments) and that people should not support palestine because of that. unfortunately that is a very overly used belief in arguments, especially in north america. the belief that palestine is homophobic and that israel is very open and supportive is due to pinkwashing, which can be explained very thoroughly on the website decolonizepalestine. this website also has TONS of information all about palestine, the occupation, and the various forms of questions people often ask, while also debunking a lot of myths and falsehoods that are produced from israeli propaganda. very good site to scroll through, and i'm sure many of your questions will be answered just by taking a read through it.

i'm not going to waste time and repeat what thousands of others have already said about pinkwashing, but i do want to mention that pinkwashing does play a huge role in the dehumanization of palestinians and also plays a role in how western propaganda continues to split oppressed minorities constantly, making them against each other rather than uplifting each other.

the belief that all palestinians are homophobic is. honestly. well. it's islamophobic. i'm queer, trans, muslim, and palestinian. i exist. queer palestinians exist everywhere. western and zionist propaganda makes people think that all palestinians are muslim, and therefore against queer people. this is simply not true, since palestinians are very VERY diverse. palestinians are christian, jewish, muslim, atheist, and whatever else as well. it's not a religious thing, it's an ethnic and racial thing. palestine simply has not had the time to unlearn homophobia or had the time to try to advocate for queer and women's rights because we are too busy trying not to die. we don't have time to fight for queer liberation because we're too busy fighting for our HUMAN liberation. we are trying to exist first, then we can worry about the discrimination against queers.

israel also claims to be a safe space for queers, but it is literally the opposite. it's just as discriminatory as other countries, and hurts queer jews, as well as blackmails queer palestinians into submission. like you said, israel does have transphobic regulations, like the whole "need bottom surgery in order to legally get a sex change" and other things like that.

i've been recommending this masterlist of palestinian resources for everyone, but please look through this if you want to learn more about the occupation in palestine. the website i mentioned earlier is very helpful as well.

inshallah we will see a free palestine in our lifetimes.

#palestine #free palestine

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hopefull-mindset · 3 months

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do you believe mori is a pedo or a lolic0n? I don't! but I just wanted to ask you about what you thought about it ><

Oh dear, this is the type of discussion I was thinking about but was too much of a shitfest to really dip my foot in. It's an incredibly loaded discussion to have, so I'll talk about this to the best of my abilities.

Let’s start with me saying that there is no good answer to this and it’s not as easy as “the grass is green”. There is no “I'm right” and “you're wrong”. I know the answer looks obvious at first glance, especially if you choose to primarily look at his relationship with Elise that way, but Asagiri makes some decisions that put this belief into question.

However, we can’t blame anyone for seeing Mori a certain way due to Asagiri’s choices in a poor tasted gag, so I don’t think I can ever say someone completely misunderstood Mori’s character (at least, in this regard) when we ask this question. We cannot chalk up this belief about Mori to be the fault of the audience misunderstanding him because of some “translation error” because it blatantly ignores the fact this is a joke Asagiri chooses to make a lot.

I am also not defending Asagiri when I call it a joke because it's obvious to me that's all he sees it as: a joke. Not a great one, but it's there. It's as serious as the Tanizaki siblings should be taken (kinda wish people knew that there's implications about them not being siblings more though, even if it won't make it much better for them).

Just needed to lay that out before I started talking so I'm not misunderstood when I talk about the questionability of labeling him this. I do think we need to talk more about Asagiri’s position in this when this is brought up, so I will be doing that as well.

Firstly, Elise is not the product of sexual desire came to life. That's something people understand the least if they keep looking at her in this point of view. I've seen many frame the connection between her and Yosano to be one where Mori “finds out his type to be younger”, which yuck! Thankfully, I can debunk this by just bringing in Beast Mori.

It's a little comical that people are insistent that they have nothing to do with each other when they have no problem doing so with any other character from Beast. As of canon right now, we have no idea about any specification on how this ability works or how he controls it. My assumption is that it has to partially do with Mori’s need for a companion while not needing to give himself up and be vulnerable with others. He tends to have that problem of looking over his shoulder, like with Dazai and presumably kicking him out because of the typical human fear of death.

I also tended to notice that in the three ways Elise shows up, she forms into someone that Mori might need at the moment and reflective of his mindset. During the Great War, she is at her most subservient and robotic when Mori’s mind was only on gaining the most optimal solution with no consideration for anyone’s feelings.

Post-Great War to the present day, she has been a bratty child and a lot like 11-year-old Yosano with a bow in the same place her butterfly was. She is human and expressive when he can't afford to be and a living reminder of the child he had broken down for the price of an optimal solution. If you were to ask me, Mori has grown in his mindset with the help of Fukuzawa. To consider more heart and comradery than he used to when navigating the Port Mafia. Like how he saw worth in learning about dead subordinates when Ango was insistent on filing them.

In BSD Beast, he is able to roam without considering the need for the optimal solution and Elise appears as a 20-year-old adult bratty as ever. He needs a fellow caretaker to take care of the orphanage he was put in charge of, and has let himself come back into touch with his humanity when caring for these children.

I can’t give you any personal answer for why Asagiri chose to name it “Vita Sexualis” or why her age changes like that. I don’t know what goes on in his mind and we haven’t been given any specifics. We should remember that Asagiri was actually hiding that she was his Ability up until Cannibalism arc, and that this name might not mean anything you think it does.

Why? I have no idea why Asagiri did this. I think he was having fun tormenting us with what this ability name could mean from.

I also hadn’t finished Vita Sexualis because I have a lot on my reading list, but even if it’s described as an “erotica” by public sources, your expectations of what that means might not actually be lived up to. I think one of the most creative answers to her age and this chosen name instead of “Dancing Girl” (the book of which she’s based on) have to do with the real Mori’s love of children as a father and the act of intercourse being what gives life.

But even without those bits of speculation, I have already made it clear why she has nothing to do with sexual influence and I wish people talked about her out of that type of context. She has not been sexualized by the narrative or by Mori himself. If you saw the scene where she was undressed and Mori was begging her to put on some clothes as it it was creepy, that was your choice. She has also never been put in a genuine romantic light by him ever in this story.

The omake where he calls Elise his wife is not definite evidence of some belief he genuinely has of her. If you actually read it and don't look at our context panels, it's obvious that he's doing it to ruffle Fukuzawa’s feathers and get a reaction out of him. Besides poking at his integrity, I would also assume he would do so because he can't just call her his daughter as he'd usually would in these situations since he doesn't tend to reveal it publically. King-in-Yellow made a good contribution in context to why Kafka Asagiri would make this joke with Mori and Elise.

Please note that Elise is also not a real child or his daughter, but another piece of him like all abilities are. Do not separate them in a conversation and act as if she's her own person. Abilities have shown to be able to act on their own and take over their user (Shibusawa, Fukuchi potentially, Gab from 55 Minutes), but that does not mean they have become their own being. They are still restricted by the humanity of their user and these cases only happen when the user is dead or is facing backlash against their own ability’s power.

Moving on, I need to talk about Asagiri and the way he chooses to frame Mori’s fondness for cute little girls because there is no way else to talk about these jokes and not sound like an ass unless I speak about it like this.

Now, Mori has not done anything in his actions to be pedophilic currently except these very vague “maybe, maybe not” jokes. No sexualization of Elise, no praying on Yosano, and especially nothing with Dazai???? Where did that come from???

Cases of these jokes in manga:

Ending of the guild arc where he says about how he only deals with young girls under 12 in repknss to Kouyou (do not bring up the dub, I will stare at you frowning for not acknowledging the fact that Dubs tend to be very off to fit the mouth flaps)

Fukuzawa commenting how he still has his dumb facination with cute girls

Omake (already talked about that)

The first example is where he responds to Kouyou’s words of sticking around to help and protect him in the organization. This is not a joke about sexual attraction, this is a questionable joke about her age as most media does about women at times. The “lolicon” -ness of it is still there of course, but please understand the point of it. The other implies she's flirting with him, and for him to make a joke that pokes at her for somehow flirting would be incorrect. To emphasize this, the manga chooses to translate this as “I only protect young girls”.

To explain the second example, we need to talk about the disconnect between us as an audience and Asagiri’s way of using Lolicon. On a trope basis, lolicon is when the creator presents a prepubescent-looking girl of varying “ages”, but still acts like a child and is continuously sexualized by the creator to cater to the male character’s gaze. Mori… is not written like that or is Elise for the matter like I brought up earlier, but then why does Asagiri joke about it even outside the text?

If you've ever been around this crowd in anime spaces, you would know one of the first things people say to explain it is not what I said. They’d say it's a trope about “cute little girls and fawning over them”, and then everything else is left for you to figure out. I have no idea what Asagiri actually thinks about this (probably pretty indifferent), but I'm baffled by his very surface-level take on Lolicon being presented into his own work.

This is one of those times where you have to think of Asagiri as another anime fan first rather than a creator in that space. Asagiri is just a guy who became internet famous briefly for his Touhou Cthulhu TRPG series and got signed into making his own nerdy manga about literature.

For Asagiri to narratively compare it to Fukuzawa’s love for cats, it's telling to me how this supposed “lolicon” joke is supposed to be seen. I don't think Asagiri would willingly put him in charge of an orphanage of all things and then expect us to actually think of him as a Pedo.

This has had me boggled for a while on what to think, but in the end, thinking of him as one would leave me more baffled than if he wasn't. Authorial intent can't always stop us from actually seeing what looks like, but on top of everything else… well? What am I supposed to think?

So no, I don't believe that he's a pedophile and I hope it stays that way. Sorry this took a bit to write, I needed to build some semblance of my thoughts without gaining a headache. I wish this fandom had a better discussion about him half the time and created their own opinions instead of falling back on “Oh he abused Dazai” or “that he's a nasty pedophile who should be locked up for his crimes”.

Lolicon and Pedophilia are interlocked when you speak about them, so it'd be wrong of me to completely disregard these ideas on Mori. I just thought we needed to have a better conversation on this than some accusations thrown around about who's correct. This topic deserves a bit more maturity and care than I've seen some talk about.

#thank you for asking!#bsd #bungou stray dogs #mori ougai #bsd elise #bsd meta #bsd analysis #oh jeez #im tryinh to rub out this headache #I don't care if people are avoidant on having a decent discussion about these things #christ #just do it for the sake of yourself and entertain that people can have different views for good reason #Mori is a lying liar who lies

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nothorses · 11 months

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just some thoughts on the whole "cultural Christianity" thing: i think many people use it to mean something I personally would call more like "Christian normativity", in other words the assumption that everything religious is Christian. Not every dickish antitheist i've encountered was raised Christian and hates all religions now because that's their only frame of reference, some of them were raised fully atheist but still assume that their (usually very stereotyped and not remotely true-to-life) image of Christianity is the only form of religiosity that exists because (white, evangelical) Christianity is the dominant form in the US. The whole "true atheism" movement of the mid-2000s (which was actually just antitheism and Islamophobia repackaged for the post-911 world) contributed a lot to the current popular view of atheists being synonymous with bad-faith antitheist cold takes in my view.

I have to say I don't really understand why atheists OR people of different religions get really into trying to debunk each other's beliefs/practices and I tend to see it as asshole behavior regardless of who is doing it, so this does color my impression of atheists when I see weirdly long twitter threads about how stupid Christianity is because X Y Z reductive descriptions of Roman Catholic theology, but no more so than when I open the Jumblr tag and every third post is complaining about Christianity instead of discussing anything actually relevant to Judaism 🤷🏻‍♂️

Yeah, I really think "Christian normativity" is a good term for it- and I like that it's kind of hard to slap that as a label onto individuals. A person is not "Christian normative", but they might have grown up under Christian hegemony, and the work of unpacking Christian normativity is likely to be long and hard.

But just like other forms of "normativity"- cisnormativity, heteronormativity- this is something everyone is influenced by, including the people who are erased by it. Trans people can still hold cisnormative ideals, and queer people can hold heternormative ideals. In fact, most do! Even after they think they've finished the work!

That doesn't mean they benefit from it, and there is no binary state of being or not being cis/heteronormative. It's something we all have to unpack over the course of our lives; being trans and queer just means it's generally more obvious that we need to start that process, and generally more obvious what to unpack.

Even then, a person with exclusively straight friends who realizes they're gay when they're 50 is probably still going to have a harder time of it than a straight ally raised by gay parents & surrounded by queer people.

Atheists are also not Christian, and there are things about Christian normativity that stick out to us because of that. Christian language in things like the pledge of alleigance, on federal currency, and in government documents, sticks out to most atheists! Mandatory prayer time in US public schools certainly stuck out to atheists, which is why atheists fought to end it.

The things a Christian-raised atheist notices are going to be different from the things an atheist-raised atheist does. Someone raised atheist in connection to a non-Christian spirituality/religion/culture is going to notice different things as well, and someone raised religious but not Christian will notice different things than all the rest.

Culture comes from everything from religion, to community, to family, to friends, to even the media you're exposed to. To imply that there is a binary state in which individual people are either Culturally Christian or Not Culturally Christian is reductive at best. There are trends, there are individuals who claim the label for themselves, and there is a cultural force that needs to be named and addressed.

But ultimately, it's always going to be more complicated than that. There will always be people who don't fit in one of those two boxes, no matter how you draw that line.

Best practice is generally to let other people decide how to categorize themselves.

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unbidden-yidden · 8 months

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Archive Masterpost

Since tumblr refuses to fix its search function and/or make its tagging system reliable, to keep things tidy around here I am going to start a masterlist of posts that I think are helpful, funny, or that I am likely to want to reference again for some reason.

(If I've spent more than a couple minutes searching for a post ever, it's going on this list so I don't have to waste my time again)

This is primarily for my own reference (so I will not be taking requests or unsolicited advice) but feel free to use it if you're looking for something of mine.

Religion/Theology (typically tagged with "every hour is theology hour around here apparently")

Extremely long post explaining differences between Xtianity and Judaism

Trinity post

This extremely excellent post by @/a-queer-seminarian about why the Tables Flipping Incident isn't what a lot of lefty Xtians like to say it was

Jumblr takes on the Tables Flipping Incident

A good test of the value of any given religious belief

Progressive Xtians need to step up, Now

Religion doesn't change my morals; it enhances them

Why are so many Xtians so insecure about their religion in how they relate to Jews?

Shituf (wrt Xtianity)

Culturally Xtian atheist discourse #1

Culturally Xtian atheist discourse #2

Culturally Xtian atheist discourse #3

Why I say 'Xtian'

Questions for converts of any type

Spicy theology question

Questions I regret asking about biblical literalism

Holy Envy quote: Rabia of Basra

Things I don't understand about the Xtian Sabbath

Hey what happens if you reject your baptism according to inclusive Xtians?

Judaism: Religion & Conversion

Do you ever feel crazy for believing in God?

Xtians should be Xtians by Choice:

What to expect at your first Shabbat (@/bneiruth)

First-timer tips for shul: [1], [2]

What you might be asked your first time talking to a rabbi about conversion (@/bneiruth)

Conversion resources (by @/keshetchai)

Do NOT convert to Judaism if your intent is to syncretize it with anything else, and especially don't convert for Lillith of all things.

Trust me, no you didn't embarrass yourself too much to go back to shul

No, really

Having a lot of thoughts about what genuine, compassionate kiruv might look like to interfaith couples

Judaism: Jewish culture & politics

On the diversity of what people mean by "Zionism" and "Anti-Zionism" by @/3tznius5this

On Jewish music vs. Xtian music (pt. 1, pt. 2)

Times of Israel article re: Israel's court reform

Israel is more similar to Liberia

Chelm stories?

Judaism: personal experiences

Eretz Yisrael post

Conversion journey

The music of our prayers

An Ode to the Holy Dark

Hashem, the soul you have placed in me is pure

Singing Hallel for Av

Messianic mishegas:

Why messianics aren't valid (long post by @/sorekbekarmi)

Why messianics are antisemitic (also by @/sorekbekarmi)

Interview by @/sorekbekarmi about his experiences being raised messianic

Conversion requires a lot of unlearning

Yoshke is probably a mamzer

Messianics still aren't valid, pt.2

Antisemitism: (more generally)

@/schraubd article about Jews being caught in the middle between Right and Left talking over Jews on antisemitism

@/schraubd post about a possible art simulation of Jewish experience

Dara Horn post

"But... but... Jews are disproportionately wealthy!"

Post about Jewish regeneration through large families; discussion on names

It's not the 1940s anymore, but in the 1940s it wasn't the 1890s anymore...

If I find this massive antisemitism write-up by (I believe) @/penrosesun I will lose it in a good way because it was so good [Edit: I finally saw it on my dash again!!]

Compilation of important dog whistles to know & avoid (by @/dzamie)

Antisemitism inherent to Xtianity?

Khazer theory debunking

No means no applies to proselytizing

Missionizing is awful and Jews should not have to become experts in Xtianity to fend it off

"Diaspora" doesn't even really cover it

Tentatively adding "attributes every failure of institutions and systems to intentional malice rather than ignorance or incompetence" to my List Of Conspiracy Theory Red Flags

Desecrating a sefer Torah is NOT the same as desecrating a printed bible

Jumblr: (mostly memes and other more lighthearted or inspirational Jewish posts)

Pesach tinfoil post

Apparently "fucking" is transliterated exactly into Hebrew

Subarot

Why the Jews are Better Off Without Xmas Trees

You wouldn't drive in your house

"Dual loyalty"

Goyische chol hamoed

The prettiest, most aesthetic sukkah I've seen

Mezuzah friend

A cruel God

Who's ready for Yom Kippur?

Goats have too many sins

First photo released from Mars

Rashi's big frog

What if we advertised Torah study like Bible study?

Don't walk in front of me I may not follow....

"Ruth was un-Jewish by birth. Moses was un-Jewish by upbringing..."

Gender garbage: (personal, often heavy, posts about my own experiences)

Convergent gender

"Indentifying as" language

Labels are for recycling bins

We pick one

Untitled

I don't have preferred pronouns really

Transandrophobia discussions

General trans- and queer-posting:

That one reblog about The Birdcage

Ways to improve discourse around gender wrt to understanding that all genders have the same needs regardless of what patriarchy has told us

Feminism & Reproductive Rights:

Uggghhh this post has too many notes

Conservatives are coming for no-fault divorce

If someone in tech designs this, it's not my fault

Memes and other lighthearted posts:

Why does everyone seem to reblog this one kinda throwaway comment directly from my blog?

Spouse and I are very silly about words sometimes

Boulevard of Broken Dreams

Hey if the diaper fits

Miscellaneous:

Be careful what you say, because I might remember it forever

The Sneeze (germ video)

Tech halp:

How to get rid of upload notifications

How to do the small text

Yes, you can actually have a comma in the tags

General/Housekeeping:

Original introduction pinned post (retired)

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atheostic · 1 year

Text

Atheist YouTube Masterpost (Update 1)

Apostate Prophet - A look at Islam from an atheist perspective by a former Muslim.

Aron Ra - Mostly posts of his speeches at atheist conferences, responses to religious nonsense, and educational content relating to where the Bible gets science wrong as well as an awesome breakdown of major taxonomic sections.

Atheist Experience - A call-in show where anyone can call in to discuss religion. They prefer theist callers, but atheists who need advice on issues regarding being atheist (e.g. family conflict because of one’s atheism, how/if to come out, etc) are welcome to call in too.

Atheist Lowdown - Atheist Lowdown is a weekly secular news aggregate vlog intended for busy freethinkers, humanists, atheists, agnostics, and any combination thereof who want the latest coverage of religious violence and oppression, the efforts of likeminded nonbelievers, and other related stories.

Cosmic Skeptic - A place for the discussion of philosophical topics ranging from the crucially important to the trivially interesting.

Dallas Wade – A channel with mostly video essays and reaction videos regarding Christianity.

Forrest Valkai – A channel by an evolutionary biologist where he talks about evolution and science as well as reacts to creationist videos. He’s very funny and friendly and his explanations are very approachable for laypeople of all levels.

Friendly Atheist - The YouTube channel of Hemant Mehta, a former member of the board of directors for Foundation Beyond Belief. He mostly discusses news and has a playlist where he discusses “Everything Wrong In Genesis in the Bible”. He also runs a website, friendlyatheist.com in case you prefer reading to viewing or listening.

Genetically Modified Skeptic - An atheist look at various issues relating to religion.

Godless Bitches - The Godless Bitches is a podcast focusing on atheist issues from a feminist perspective featuring Vi La Bianca, Jenna Belk, Jen Aldrich, & guests. The show streams every 2nd & 4th Sundays of the month at 6pm directly after The Atheist Experience.

Godless Engineer - Focuses on response to religious videos. Also has a “Bible Study” series.

Godless Granny – “Atheist commentary on the Bible, women’s issues, LGBTQ issues, legal/ political and other current events. Intent is to invite discussion leading to critical thinking about religion and it’s effects on people.” If you’re interested in hearing from an older atheist who deconverted later in life,this is the channel for you.

Gutsick Gibbon – She’s a PhD student in Biological Anthropology, so her main area of interest is human evolution and debunking creationist misinformation. According to her, in her channel you can find content “concerning primates, general zoology, paleontology, anthropology, and evolutionary biology.”

Holy Koolaid - A channel by Thomas Westbrook (a former Jehovah’s Witness) that features news, discussions about the Bible, discussions about the historicity of events in the Bible, and more. He has a playlist for “Nothing Fails Like Bible History” and also often looks at religious cults.

JaclynGlenn - An atheist who talks about a variety of topics.

JeGaysus – I’m not really sure if he’s atheist (sometimes I think he might be, other times I’m not sure), but his gay Jesus persona is too funny not to share.

Jimmy Snow - A show with a mix of subject material, typically dealing with atheism and LGBT+-related stuff.

John Cedars - A range of videos aimed at dissecting the various teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses, as well as new developments in the religion. In particular, he tries to keep on top of the latest propaganda released by Watchtower by way of video rebuttals as much as possible.

The Line - A call-in show similar to Atheist Experience started by Jimmy Snow.

Logicked – “Entertaining responses to bad arguments, with a focus on atheism and debunking religion.”

Matt Dillahunty - Matt Dillahunty’s personal YT channel.

Non-Prophets - The Non-Prophets focuses on atheism and the separation of church and state.

NonStampCollector - Lots of fantastic little animations regarding atheism.

Parenting Beyond Belief - Parenting Beyond Belief is a live call-in show every 2nd and 4th Saturday at 1pm Central dedicated to peer support and guidance for secular parents and those wanting to learn more about non-religious families.

Paulogia - A former Christian takes a look at the claims of Christians, wherever science is being denied in the name of ancient books.

Professor Stick - Mostly does reply videos to debunk pseudoscience on the internet.

Prophet of Zod - Everything from satirical atheist cartoons to a guy with a static head and no discernible facial features talking about atheism-related stuff. His most popular section is a series on “Dumb Things People Say to Atheists”, where he very calmly and respectfully explains why what the thing is dumb and how best to respond.

Rachel Oates - A channel which deals with a variety of sujects, from poetry to atheist news to book reviews of religious books and more.

Secular Sexuality - Secular Sexuality is a weekly call-in show live from Austin, Texas every Thursday at 7pm CT where they talk about sex from a secular perspective.

Shannon Q - An atheist who talks about a variety of topics.

Sir Sic – A reaction video channel where the host is a cartoon knight.

Skeptics & Scoundrels – A very new channel by an atheist ex-JW. I personally like him already. Before talking about why he disagrees with the paster he’s responding to, he makes a point of finding something nice to say about the person (“Your beard is cool – baby birds could nest in that thing!”), which I think it’s a neat and unique approach. He doesn’t have a lot of videos yet but give it time. :)

The SkepTick – A pretty fun channel of mostly reaction vids reacting to religious videos.

Sound of Science – Mostly a reaction video blog regarding unscientific beliefs.

Suris the Skeptic - He tackle issues of religion, morality, philosophy, and a touch of science.

Talk Heathen - Talk Heathen is a weekly call-in television show in Austin, Texas geared toward long-form and on-going dialogue with theists & atheists about religion, theism, & secularism.

Telltale - Typically looks at cults and religion-related news.

The Thinking Atheist – Typically video essays and the visual version of a podcast by the same name. The host’s voice sounds exactly like an old-timey radio announcer. lol

TMM – A channel mostly featuring reactions to Christian content.

Truth Wanted - A show similar to Atheist Experience and Talk Heathen, it focuses on how and why people believe what they believe, and how you can talk about beliefs in more effective ways.

Viced Rhino - Response videos to pseudo-scientific nonsense on YouTube.

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beyondtheindigosky · 1 year

Text

About this Build Poi situation

This entire situation took an extremely tragic turn. And everyone who harped about morals and justice are making memes . I don't have a high sense of morality but I honestly don't think that this is something to rejoice about. Now so many things have come to light after this whole situation. So many lives are being ruined. Poi, Build , the kids who posted slanderous comments, all their lives have been ruined. Now that Poi is the defendant in the case most people who wanted to destroy Build don't care anymore. Because now that Build has left BOC , there's 'no point in fighting for justice.' The sheer irony of this all.

Now people are coming forward and apologizing to Build for spreading fake allegations. And all who have publicly apologized until now are underage. There's even a 12 year old apologizing. These are children. But now they have obtained criminal records even before they became 18. And they are being dragged all around social media for what they have done.

Poi's plaigarism allegations against Build have been debunked and now ,it seems as if she hasn't even filed a lawsuit against him. Now she has become the Defendant of this case. The charges against her are criminal charges and if undisputed she will definitely get a criminal record. This has even gone to the Thai national media and now her reputation is also in ruins. People are making fun of her contradictory tweets and openly mocking her.

People are making fun of all these people involved. Some hate Build for his tweets,other hate Poi and those convicted children for their actions and now all of them are being dragged to hell and back.

Even though I sided with Build and disliked Poi no one truly won here.

Apo's own fans turned against him and flung racist, homophobic comments at him all because of a filter.

Regardless of what we feel about them, these are all real people who are involved.To make fun of their lives ,to joke at their expense isn't a morally superior thing to do.

What's the point in talking about 'justice', 'morals' and 'victims' if we dump the case the moment the tide turns?

I honestly had concrete beliefs too. I didn't even knowthat there was something called 'imperfect victims' until this case happened. I didn't realize that we have to give a voice to the victim ,(no matter how imperfect they are) first. That was my mistake.

Everyone who made documentations and discussions about it has abandoned it . People mocked Build for crying and now they are mocking Poi for what's happening to her. It's very clear that Poi needs medical intervention.

If Poi can be considered an imperfect victim so Build. If Build is innocent until proven guilty so is Poi.

This entire thing has become a nightmare .With more and more lives being ruined. The court of Public opinion is an extremely ruthless place and we all are a part of it.

What all these people have done might be inexcusable in someone's book but this situation should have been approached in a more humane way.

The court of Law forgives but The court of public opinion never does .The same people who stand by you will abandon you in a second.

There's one thing common in all these people involved ,they have all become social outcasts. We have pushed them out of society with no remorse.Because all of us ,from both sides decided to hate each other and drag all these people to hell.

Most of us just needed a scapegoat to hate .Now that Build seems to be the victim, Build has been replaced by Poi and the other people involved .

We all tried to force all these people to be picture perfect and when they don't fulfill it we get angry.

Build,Poi and everyone involved will have to live with this until they die. There's no escape for them.

At the end of the day everyone including me were complicit in spreading hatred and anger and dividing ourselves and expelling all these people.

I should have looked at this case in a humane manner ,but I failed to do so. We can find their actions inexcusable but they are inevitably paying for everything that they have done.

Degrading ,mocking ,rejoicing about their downfall is not the way to go in my opinion.But then again how can I talk about morality when I myself am not a good person?

This actually showed me that people truly don't care about things like justice and the victim .They will care only care if it affects them. That's the reality and human nature. They will discard the person the moment the victim becomes the defendant.

I am no better either.

The truth is a bitter pill to swallow,but I can accept it when I am wrong.

Poi,Build and the other 3 kids are a product of their society. Their experiences would have shaped them to take all those decisions that they took. They are all imperfect. They are all human.We don't care about the real issue here.

But people can't be imperfect right?

Everyone has to be perfect right?It's easy to mock them right?

It's easy to ignore these problems right?

Build's tears are crocodile tears because he's a devil and not human enough to cry, am I right?

Poi shouldn't be sympathized with because she is crazy and delusional right ?

Those children and their parents should be shamed and mocked because they committed crimes right ?

It's easy ignore their struggles and not care because they no longer matter to us right?

We only need them as scapegoats just to hate them right ?

It's fun to see them dragged to hell right?

Degrading them, Dehumanizing them , sensationalizing this whole situation,dropping them when we can no longer seem to care , Ignoring how they feel because they are wrong feels good right ?

Let's not give them a voice because they are monsters right?

Their feelings don't matter anymore because we hate them right ?

How we failed them all. It took me a long while to accept this all but this is the bitter reality .And I was complicit in it as well. So I am no better .

Initially this was made under a meme about Build's resignation but now I made my own post about it. People shouldn't make memes out of the destruction of a person's life no matter how much you hate them.

#kinnporsche #thai series #buildjakapan #build jakapan #build japakan #apo nattawin #be on cloud #BOC #poi #poi patchayamon #kinn porsche the series #kpts cast #kinnporsche cast #apo #justice #there is no true justice #people really don't care.

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detransraichu · 1 month

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I still do want to apologize for what I said, I genuinely hope you don't feel too bad, however I still want to say that your love for the trans community is really skewed, if I said that I loved the jewish community and every take I had was agreed with by nazis, it wouldnt exactly make me a great ally, again really hope the wheelchair thing didnt feel too bad, a lot of it came from my struggle with a wheelchair, my ass cannot walk either

i do appreciate the apology, as bewildering as it is!

honestly my blog is like a pinterest folder for me of the wide spectrum of radfem views that people have around these parts. not everyone is a jerk, which was fuckin wild to my detrans brain after so long in trans spaces being told they're all right-wing tradwives... what peaked my interest and led me to make this blog was me finding trans-led radfem blogs that were fighting for cis/bio women's rights and trying to find cis-trans compromises, talking abt being trans radfems or radfem allies while being trans. ofc you could say they're all fake, but i've even met irl trans ppl very open to certain radfem beliefs when i presented them out of curiosity without saying they were radfem ones. cuz let's be real, most ppl don't really know what radfems actually believe in, and know thy enemy is a pretty important thing in activism! ppl study all kinds of groups where bigotry has festered, and i don't believe radfems are like incels or nazis at all

it's late, so i'm going to ramble about what i've learned -- radfems, the ones that aren't just jerks, are basically saying: "i care first and foremost about afab rights! i want afab-only spaces in bathrooms & changing rooms, alongside gender neutral ones! i care about afab-specific issues like abortions and forced pregnancy and afab genital mutilation and trauma that only cis women & transmasc ppl face growing up, afab ppl face unique misogyny that is wayyy too often seen as a less important issue than transmisogyny instead of an equal struggle, and transfems can be misogynistic af against afab folks in a unique way that needs to be called THE FUCK OUT!! afab rights matter! afab people are more than just their body type! afab people have unique sex-based oppression!" they aren't calling for trans ppl's deaths, the grand majority anyway. they're all for gender nonconformity, they just don't believe it will ever your agab and they believe your agab matters in certain leftist discussions... like how transfems will say theyfabs and use the word afab to describe a specific dynamic between the two sexes, afab/female & amab/male

and i know "there are two sexes in humans" gets ppl mad -- from what i read about there being two sexes, radfems told me the one thing no one has been able to debunk so far is that if you google male & female it says that the male/amab sex is the group of humans that has small spermazoid gametes, and female/afab sex produce larger gametes; intersex people still fit under one of these two, and the term itself is actually seen as offensive, they're just people with DSDs. afab ppl typically are born with vaginas and go through estrogen puberty, and amab ppl are typically born with penises. radfems are saying that amab/male and afab/female are just body types that shouldn't dictate one's life, but the patriarchy and creepy powerful cis men have turned afab bodies (and afab-passing bodies) into something sexualized and objectified, and people with afab bodies are raised under misogyny from birth, which amab people typically don't go through unless they start passing 100% perfectly (and even then the misogyny they face is conditional; if someone learns they're amab, they will face homophobic disgust, like the typical movie joke of a guy realizing a girl is transfem and throwing up... that isn't the misogyny that cis women & transmasc ppl face). penises can forcibly impregnate and feel genital pleasure while penetrating, which does mean afab people & post-op transfems (the grand majority of transfems statistically still have dicks) are uniquely vulnerable against amab bodies. these are big differences that need to be talked about

radfems are saying that amab/male & afab/female socialization matters and the trans community should take it into account, and stop seeing cis women & transmascs as the one-way oppressors of transfems, when transfems are also privileged for being amab; they do not face systemic body issues that afab ppl face, and they do not know what it's like to grow up as afab, therefore sometime need to sit tf down and listen too. it's not a strict oppressor/oppressed dynamic, it's more complex. afab-unique oppression is violent and widespread worldwide, afab ppl have generational trauma and may face afab-unique issues that anyone amab cannot even begin to understand. i think everyone should listen to one another. i think transmisogyny & afabmisogyny both matter. that's what radfems are saying.

radfems often do not use the most respectful language. they say male instead of amab, female instead of afab, they misgender, they say trans-identified male (tim) and trans-identified female (tif). many have faced afabmisogyny from transfems and have nowhere to go. some are transmascs, and some are transfems and strong allies. radfems often do not mince their words. but i think, as an oppressed class, their words still do matter. if identifying as a woman makes you oppressed, and being afab makes you oppressed, wouldn't being a woman-identified afab person bring a unique oppression? don't cis, or as they call themselves biological women, matter? they don't feel a gender identity, they see their agab as just a body type, one they did not choose and may not always like, but they align with it and they want to normalize it and stop oppression against it. if cis people tell trans people they don't have a gender identity, they don't have ~womanly feelings~ inside their heads, does anyone ever listen or do they just go umm you're probably agender? if cis women say they have worries about certain gender-affirming things, bc it may bring harm their way, do we talk abt it or just mock them and call them terfy bitches? what about all the replies from trans people involving r*pe threats and forced impregnation and guilt-tripping same-sex attracted ppl for not being into the opposite agab, when some trans people also are only attracted to the same agab (transfem4transfem) or attracted only to the opposite agab. some openly admit it! yet cis people can't do the same? what about certain concerns related to medical transition, ones that many detrans people raise but no one except right-wing bigots listen to? and the ironic gender normative sexist things that some trans ppl say? why aren't there discussions abt this shit in trans spaces?? it genuinely worries me

there's soooo many of these issues, you see... and trans folks and trans allies aren't speaking up, they aren't posting about them, they aren't having actual discussions, they just brush it all under the rug as terf bs bc it makes them look bad so they want to believe all this shit is fake. that's why radfems are getting more and more fed up. i want to ease that tension. i want to do something. bc i care a whole fucking lot about all lgbtq people. trans people literally funded my escape from my abusive home when i was younger, i know y'all protect your own. i just want to throw away the misconception that cis women aren't a unique oppressed class too, and actually listen to what they're saying so we can put an end to the bullshit cis-trans war, bc the people killing trans people ARE ACTUALLY CIS MEN! the people in power ARE CIS MEN! we are wasting our fucking breath on eachother. and it needs to change. that's what my book is gonna be about and that's why i'm on here collecting receipts and having deep convos with radfems and eventually doing surveys etc

i genuinely did not know what i'd find when i started researching radfeminism. i expected something radically (ha!) different. i think the trans community could really benefit from at least learning more, if only to have genuine debates and not just slurs and threats. i really do care and i hope both communities can somehow find peace :/

#lay text #asks #radfem #radblr

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randomfoggytiger · 1 year

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X-Files Typing: 'Never Again' and Fear

‘Never Again’ disguises its true, insidious purpose under the mask of the loss of control. While Ed Jerse, Scully, and Mulder are reeling from the deterioration of their personal lives-- a shrieking mad woman in his head, a never-ending line in her view, and the swift and impenetrable withdrawal of his dependable partner, respectively-- the truth that lies at the core of each of their problems is: fear. Ed fears that all women are out to destroy him; Scully fears that Mulder’s quest has displaced her value in his life; and Mulder fears that Scully might not ever have been as accepting of what he has to offer as he had thought.

Chosen Above All Else?

Scully contemplates many things this episode: a rose petal left on a grave, Mulder’s nameplate on his desk, endless lines, and her life. She has given her Si Hero’s natural loyalty, her Te Parent’s unlimited library of her mind, and her Fi Child’s unwavering conviction in her beliefs to a cause that has grown her as a person and strengthened her Ne Inferior’s hope for humanity and the future; and it is not the never ending grind that Scully fears, the perpetual wasting away at the quest for the Truth: that inspires and strengthens her. Nor is it the fear of the unknown: that is kept in check by Mulder’s continual support, the person who takes leaps by her side and has her back no matter what. Her fear is that she hasn’t been chosen.

Scully stated to her friend Ellen in ‘The Jersey Devil’: “He’s not a jerk… He’s obsessed with his work.” Since then, Mulder and she have grown undoubtedly closer-- their reassignment, her abduction, her coma and recovery, Donnie Pfaster, his father’s death, her sister’s death, and many other experiences-- and Scully has aided and abetted willingly all his schemes, teasing and flirting each step of the way. In ‘Home’, Mulder set himself up as a candidate for her Uberscullies, and leaned into her inquiry. There was fertile ground for a more nuanced discussion of their relationship after the Peacock horrors unfolded, with a more somber Mulder and vindicated Scully.

But then ‘The Field Where I Died’ happened. Scully’s unrivaled closeness to Mulder was shaken by his attachment and grief over the loss of his professed ‘soul mate.’ Equilibrium was restored by the time Mulder paid a visit to Russia, Scully was incarcerated for contempt of court, and John Lee Roche was sent to the afterlife where he belonged. But that doubt remained. Scully’s Ni Demon needs to be chosen ABOVE everyone else; if she is not, her loyalty morphs into bitterness and hatred, leading her to walk away and not return.

But the real problem is that Scully's Ni Demon prevents her from realizing what the issue IS-- muddling her desires, wants, and needs in a confusing snarl that messes with her head most of the episode.

Missed Signals

Scully gazes at the rose petal on the grave because it is a physical marker of the love someone has for the deceased, conquering even death. She takes it with her; simultaneously contemplating it and the nameplate on Mulder’s desk. The realization that there is no marker of her presence in Mulder’s life clinches what her Ni Demon believes is a sign that she is not valued or appreciated.

Mulder is being shuffled off to a mandatory vacation; but is pulled up short when Scully asks him why she doesn’t have a desk. He makes a flippant but sincere remark before redirecting her to a case to do in his absence. Scully debunks its importance, unspooling the informant’s story good-naturedly and trying to avoid her brewing emotions... until Mulder uses that ‘assignment’ word again. Scully balks at this, flinging out a remark not dissimilar to her “macho man” accusation in ‘Syzygy.’

Offended, Mulder steams that his files mean everything to him, stating: “You were just assigned here.”

Scully takes Mulder's words as further confirmation for her Ni Demon; because this is the seed of fear taking root in Scully-- that she was assigned and is appreciated only for her value to the work (it's not until Fight the Future that this is addressed; but those doubts surface again and again whenever her partner drags them back into unhealthy cycles.)

“And it’s become mine.”

Mulder screeches to a halt, his bravado and irritation disintegrating into a puff of smoke-- "You don't want it to be?"--

so suddenly and shakily that Scully tries to soften the blow, too late. Mulder’s face crumples, and he physically folds in on himself.

Scully tries to explain that she feels like she's lost herself while everyone else has moved on: “...while my own life is… standing still.” She gives a tight, false huff of laughter, an outward sign of the raging, internal panic.

Scully doesn’t know what’s wrong. Scully believes she knows it’s being trapped by “the endless line”; but if that were the case, she wouldn’t stick on it through all the losses and scant wins she continues to gain from it. The lesson she learns from ‘Never Again’ is that the never-ending line isn't the quest: it's her relationship with Mulder.

Mulder is a man driven by his Ti Hero, easily losing himself in the twisted puzzles that all point to the Truth. He is also a man that MUST feel safe by his comfortable routines-- his Si Child is soothed by revisiting safe reliabilities or keeping the current status quo going from the day he is born to the day he dies.

What shakes Mulder out of these toxic routines is the threat of losing someone’s love-- in this case, Scully's-- because his Fe Inferior tries to fill the hole in his heart by seeking out acceptance from others. In one simple sentence, Scully begins to rock the foundations he has built his life on; and he scrambles to find the problem and repair them as quickly as possible.

Unfortunately, Mulder’s Se Trickster (inability to read people's actions correctly) misreads the source of Scully’s hurt, deducing incorrectly that maybe he’d gotten under her skin too much lately. By excusing himself from the room and her life as quickly as possible, he sends the message to Scully that her problems are not worthy for him to stick around and listen to, the final nail in her Ni Demon coffin.

She needs others to at LEAST listen to what she has to say: if they don't, she feels devalued to the lowest possible level.

On the Job

Nevertheless, Scully still fulfills her Si Hero’s responsibility and duty. As she is tying up loose ends on a bogus case and contemplating the card Ed Jerse gave her, Mulder finally gets in touch.

She is genuinely happy he tracked her down, showing her Ni Demon that not all hope is lost because he HAD wanted to contact her.

However, the interaction takes a downward spiral when Mulder refocuses his attentiveness (which is the Virtue pair to his Vice apathy) back to the work.

He further tramples on her Te Parent's effectiveness by arguing about her methods on the job. Scully takes his remarks the worst possible way, assuming that he is simply belittling her efforts rather than wanting to understand her reasons with his Ti Hero. When Mulder accuses her of skipping out for a date, Scully lets him stew in that jealousy and hangs up.

She slowly works herself up to having dinner with Ed, which leads her to the tattoo parlor.

Scully’s Si Hero is open to all new experiences-- she wants to try everything at least once. How Jerse pitched the tattoo to her was highly significant, as a marker for her to overcome her pent up emotions and become a new woman. The appeal, particularly, that she hadn’t tried it before was the icing on top of the cake.

A fun fact: ISTJ’s are two sides of a coin when it comes to pain: they are one of the most susceptible to pain out of all the Types; but they are also built to withstand and endure pain. Scully’s ecstatic face during her tattoo was (on the one hand) enjoyment; but it was also pride at enduring that painful sensation and exuberance of trying something outside of her Fi Child comfort zone with someone to back up her afraid Ni Demon.

Ed Jerse has, in one evening, become a replacement for Mulder’s position in her life; and she feels like she has hit the jack pot. She finds out the next day the only treasure she found was fool’s gold. Watching Ed's destruction-- the bitterness that drove his mind to crack-- is what reveals to Scully that, unlike Jerse, it wasn't resentment driving her: it was longing.

The Basement Redux

Mulder and Scully have a last scene in the basement, after both missed each other’s calls and Scully was nearly killed again.

She enters the office, depressed and emotive;

but covers it all up the moment Mulder arrives.

Mulder tries to charm a smile out of her-- “Welcome back. You look a lot better than you did in the hospital”--

but retreats to his files when Scully remains unresponsive.

His next response-- a good natured but sarcastic “And congratulations for making a personal appearance in the X-Files for the second time” is a cover for his own wounded emotions, buying him time as he rustles amongst his files like his life depends on it.

By the time Mulder turns around to deliver “It’s a world record”, he glances briefly as Scully, vulnerably anguished--

but turns away again when he sees she hasn’t dropped her mask.

Mulder is hurt. He knows there is a festering wound; but his Ti Hero is unable to figure out how to solve it, because it is unaware where the problem IS. So it begins jumping from protocol to protocol (complimenting Scully when he arrived, half-heartedly trying to impress her with her new X-Files record, and eventually switching to impersonal work mode with moderate success.) His endeavors are hampered by his Se Trickster, however: it broadcasts his pain and insecurity like a beacon, betraying how personal this whole issue is; and, in turn, raising Scully’s hackles. She believes her own personal needs have been dismissed, her own worries playing second fiddle to Mulder’s great quest without acknowledgement for all that she has done for him (as Mulder hilariously recounts in Bad Blood: “I do it all for you, Mulder! All for you!”)

He regains some footing while reading Jerse’s file,

allowing Scully to use the guise of work to reestablish herself as well. She marches to her chair,

mentally ruminating on the medical reports Mulder is reading while comparing it to her experience.

Mulder tries to keep the mood light and establish eye contact--

but she keeps her eyes fixed on a middle distance.

Scully’s mask starts to crack when she catches sight of the petal on Mulder’s desk;

and Mulder’s humor dies on his “better late than never, huh?” when he sees her reach for it.

Insecure of where they stand, his Si Child is pulling out all the stops to try to make this threat-- this discomfort-- disappear as fast as possible. Mulder's mood further sinks by his perceived rejection.

Scully continues to disengage;

and Mulder flees the uncomfortable moment as quickly as possible,

Si Child is SCREAMING for solace: stretching as he stands, rolling his head and neck,

hunching up his shoulders as he digs into his case files again for a quick distraction (or solution.)

Finally, he admits defeat: “All this because… because I didn’t get you a desk?”

His voice is vulnerable, puzzled, confused.

He has run out of all alternatives and is finally left with his greatest fear before him: Scully might not love and accept him-- because he knows that her loyalty to the cause is loyalty to him-- like he’d thought… or like she used to. Fe Inferior is terrified, wounded, and willing to do anything to get her to like him again.

Scully is genuinely shocked he asks, softening as she finally looks him in the eye.

“Not everything is about you, Mulder. This is my life.”

The great misunderstanding of Scully: she is NOT drawing a circle around herself, enforcing boundaries that Mulder can never cross, cutting him out and keeping him from ruining her perfect, private world. What she wants, what she needs, is for him to acknowledge that her Si Hero’s loyalty and steadfastness, and her Te Parent’s help and sacrifices, her Fi Child’s moral guidance and strength, and her Ne Inferior’s drive to save the world by conquering the fear of the unknown is not all he values her for. That she is not simply a useful cog in his mission. That “that unspoken” is felt by him, too.

She gets her wish; but has no comfort from it.

“Yes, but it’s…”

We know from the scripts (linked here, thanks @dunhamhairograpy) that Mulder’s statement was: “Yes, but it’s become mine.” What I find more fascinating, however, is WHY he didn’t finish what he’d started:

Mulder’s unspoken “...but it’s become mine” dies on his lips as Scully’s meaning dawns on him.

She cocks her head, queuing him to continue, wanting him to continue.

And Mulder realizes two things:

Firstly, that Scully wants them to stop circling the drain of their relationship, that she wants something more, that what they have isn’t enough. He tries to say it once more-- tilting his head forward and (presumably) sucking air in--

And freezes because:

Secondly, Mulder realizes that he can’t take that next step.

Mulder’s Ni Critic restrains him with the fear of making the wrong choices, showing him the constant mistakes and mess-ups of the lives of those around him. It shackles him to DUTY, to what he SHOULD do, rather than what he WANTS to do.

Samantha, the quest, the Truth-- he has tossed it away time and again for Scully (by avenging her death, by sacrificing the clone of his sister for her life, by tossing aside informants and the Truth when she needed him.) He has shown time and again that he is willing to walk away from it all if it will save Scully. What he cannot lose is her.

But Scully wants more.

And that terrifies him.

Instead of facing that fear, Mulder allows his Si Child to lull him into complaisance with the current, comfortable routine he and Scully have fallen into; and his Ni Critic scares him once or twice to keep him in check.

The only way to stop this cycle is for Scully to criticize his behavior through his Fe Inferior-- “your behavior is hurting me” or “I am ashamed of you.” But she won’t, because she believes he KNOWS what the problem is: she’s told him time and again, hasn’t she? She’s demonstrated her love and loyalty with her actions, yes; but Mulder’s Se Trickster cannot interpret her actions. He must be TOLD in plain terms, or he will never realize there is, or was, a problem.

Scully waits, still hoping he’ll finish his confession.

When he doesn’t, her gaze falls once again, her hopes crushed. Realizing that, for all Scully had “gained”, she is still on that endless line, looping around and around in perpetuity.

To sum this disaster up:

Scully's Ni Demon doesn't know what she wants. Introverted Intuition is all about planning her one's own future; but hers in placed in her last slot, making it a corrupting force instead of a leading one. Because of this, she spends the episode confused and frightened: what is it she's feeling? What should she be doing? She tries to utilize all facets of her Si Hero-- Sensing Introverted, the source of internal physical sensation and experiences as well as and long-term duty and loyalty-- to work it out of her system; but is led astray by the dazzle of a pipe dream solution. In the end, Mulder has confirmed he values her; but cannot meet her needs the way she wants.

Mulder's Ti Hero, Se Trickster, and Fe Inferior are threatened by her sudden withdrawal. Thinking Introverted is about internal logic; the "if this then that" puzzle solver that pulls information about and resorts it into a new and logical whole. However, it needs to be told CLEAR and PRECISELY what the problem is. His ability to correctly read the source of Scully's distress is handicapped by his Extroverted Sensing Trickster, which is all about performance for and of others: he CANNOT read the actions of others correctly, but assumes he is. And because he misreads her signals, his Extroverted Feeling Inferior-- which deals with external sources of love and community-- is afraid of being rejected or unloved if he cannot give Scully what she needs... which his Ni Critic-- Introverted Intuition hampered by ruthless worry-- prevents him from doing so.

Is 'Leonard Betts' or 'Memento Mori' Next?

Setting aside Morgan, Wong, and Gillian's insistence that 'Never Again' took place before Leonard Betts and unattached to the cancer arc, let's analyze Scully's actions to deduce a timeline.

It is appealing to place 'Never Again' after 'Leonard Betts' because of Scully's contemplative, dour mood after taking the flower from the gravestone. However: if 'Never Again' were simply a joy ride to express that she'd thrown caution to the wind to LIVE, then it would prove she'd already given up. Then the message 'Memento Mori' would have been useless; because that is when she grapples with her mortality and hopelessness and rises above it; but not before denying there's a problem and refusing to admit she's dying FIRST. Scully cannot both deny she is dying from cancer in the following episode and give up by behaving recklessly in the previous episode. (Not to mention her real, fearful concern over the ergot poisoning she and Ed could be suffering from.)

Finally, if this episode were about Scully's cancer and not her own fears and priorities, then she wouldn't have needed to be coaxed by Ed each step of the way-- her motel, his apartment, the crummy bar, the tattoo parlor, and back to his apartment. She would have simply given up and jumped on each new opportunity handed her way.

But does it make sense to place it before 'Leonard Betts'?

Yes-- it's the perfect case to pull Scully from her doldrums. Most of the episode is brimming with medical jargon and theories; and Mulder relies heavily on her expertise to jump from one conclusion to the next while teasing her lightheartedly and listening, proving her value. Not only that, but he's just as flummoxed as herself throughout most of the episode, which gives her ample time to show off here and there. The ending is even more tragic-- her unresolved fears pop up again but in an entirely new way: letting Mulder down right after they'd reestablished their sympatico partnership.

Thanks for reading!

If you want to read a thorough analysis of Mulder's and Scully's Type, I put them in bold, clickable links.

Enjoy!

Disclaimers: This is a self-assessed analysis. This information is not based on the abominable MBTI system (which has been butchered from its original Jungian typology since ~WWII); instead, it’s a combination between the works of Jung’s type psychology, Dr. Linda Berens’ Communication styles, Dr. Dario Nardi’s EEG brain scan compiled research, and others’ data and practices as compiled and simplified by CSJoseph. This system is based only on the Nature side of Nature/Nurture; and each “type” is not a “box” to fit everyone into– simply a tool to help understand the basics of the human mind that science has only begun to fathom in its limited scope.

#txf #X-Files Typing #Never Again and Fear #analysis #MBTI #but not #S4 #Never Again #x-files #mine #the x files #xf meta

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profounddefendorcrusade-blog · 10 months

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Debunking the “Lancer is a little kid” belief

After years and years of not shipping anything (not in video games, movies, or TV shows), I finally came across a particular pairing in Toby Fox's "Delatrune" that immediately caught my attention. In case you're still guessing even after reading the title, I'm talking about Susie and Lancer here. Specifically, how Lancer is portrayed in the Delatrune fandom.

Now, what you're about to read is me being as objective as possible, but if you still see Lancer as a literal kid (even after the very last point, taken straight from the game itself), go on and believe what you want to. I mean, isn't that what works of fiction or supposed to be about? Letting our creativity flow and taking whatever we want to take from the actual work, so that we can interpret it in any way we want to? I won't even stop you from posting hate comments (they're inevitable). Just prepare yourselves for a reality check, folks.

Enough rambling. Let's get straight to the point. And that point is that whenever I went on the internet to look for fanart/fanfiction of these two, I could barely find any for one reason: 99% of the fandom saw the pairing as pedophilic. I must stop you all right there. Let's take a not-so-well-deserved break from my little discussion and look up the term 'pedophilia.'

In short, a pairing can’t be pedophilic if neither one of the characters is an adult. Or, if they're in a romantic, but non-sexual relationship. Like, you can call a couple with an age gap weird/gross all you want, but if it's not sexual, the term 'pedophilia' doesn't apply. That's my whole point. Except... Susie and Lancer are *peers.*

About Lancer's height. Saying that he's a child just because he's short is like saying Papyrus is much older than Sans just because Sans is short (heck, if you compare the heights, you'll see he's even shorter than Lancer, and yet Sans is an adult, and no one has ever questioned it).

Let's look at an actual example: Monster Kid/Teen. I found a picture containing them as a child (right) and teenager (left). See the difference? Okay.

Now, I did the same thing for Lancer, and... if he were a child, he'd look something like this:

If you look up an actual height comparison for every character in the game, you’ll see how Lancer and Monster Teen are the same height (Kris and Ralsei too as far as I can tell). Still not convinced? Let's look at Susie. Most people follow this logic: She is taller and, therefore, must be older than Lancer. To that, I say: she's a dinosaur-like monster; of course, she will be taller than the others. Who knows how tall she'll be as an adult? As for Lancer: his dad may be tall, but that doesn't automatically mean he will be as huge as him when he grows up. Nothing weird about that.

Now Let's look at Lancer's personality. He's an immature and spoiled prince, but for a good reason: he spent his entire life being treated as a baby/toddler/child before he met Susie. No wonder he lacks confidence, needs 'babysitters', and is terrible with directions. Lancer... doesn't know any better. He's never been told that he can be his own individual. He's never been told that he isn't useless. That he doesn't need protection. Remember when Lancer told Susie that he had never eaten the Dark Candy hanging way too high on the tree because he wasn't allowed to get it himself, and she decided to let him try it even though she was hungry? Or when he stated that he wasn't allowed to swear? Lancer was even surprised that the trio's "collective dad" "lets them" swear. I'm sure people growing up in a strict household would understand when I say how this doesn't explicitly have to do anything with Lancer's biological age, just his upbringing. And Susie trying to get (the word they used was not 'teach,' just 'get') him to swear more is similar to what some of my friends do sometimes when I'm too shy - get me out of my shell. That doesn't make me younger than I am. She teaches Ralsei sarcasm too in CH2, and I don't see anyone treating him like a little kid.

There's an interesting post about this here on Tumblr (https://at.tumblr.com/rainy-poppy/lancer-is-literally-a-child-why-are-you-shipping/d3kpxj3hpn1j). Basically, the person is saying that Susie, being the tough badass she is, wouldn't be hanging out with an actual child (despite calling him 'kid,' which I'll be getting to after this). Let's look at Anne and Sprig's friendship in Amphibia for a second since both of their ages are confirmed. She's 13. He's 10. The difference between Susie and Anne here is that Susie was a bully. Someone who was actually threatening, and not just a typical, friendly teenage girl like Anne. A bully like Susie would NOT willingly team up with a child. Instead, she'd say something like: "Whatever, kid. Scram!". Not only that, but she would not threaten to bite a child's face off, or beat him up (Lancer was literally the first person she actually beat up, according to what Monster Teen and Snowy tell us about never having seen her do it to anyone before), try to kill him twice (and almost succeed the second time), or call him 'man,' 'dude,' 'idiot,' and a 'wannabe tough guy.' And Lancer's face? I don't know if it's a joke. If it is, I'll ignore it, but if that's his actual face, then no. Him being a child is impossible. And considering that he has already made this particular face three times (once in CH1 and twice in CH2), I'm pretty sure it's canon. I can't get behind how someone could look at this face and think "That's a baby/toddler/little boy!" I seriously can't.

And it's not just that. We see that he and Susie made a literal game in which we (Kris) and Ralsei are supposed to ‘thrash our own ass’. I don’t know about you, but I highly doubt a child would have the mental capacity to contribute to the project or keep up with Susie in general. Additionally, Lancer shows an uncharacteristic level of maturity, ordering his troops to imprison us. Heck, they put him as the king of the entire Card Kingdom! Would they have put a 10-year-old on the throne? If they were smart, then no, of course not! Rouxls Kaard would have been in charge instead until Lancer was old enough. The comment one of the Rudinns made about him being their new king went something like: "We didn't know who to make our new king. Lancer's always been annoying, but seeing how nice he treats you guys, I think he'll be fine". There isn't a single mention of him not being old enough. The only canon information we have about Lancer’s age is that he isn’t old enough to ride a motorcycle, so he’s 15 max. Not an adult, but not a child either. And considering how the rest of the gang are teens, he is at least 13 (although, this is still too young imo).

Lancer understands the concept of death damn well; he just doesn't let it bother him. A child would scream, beg, cry, or run away in terror if someone threatened or tried to kill them, or become paralyzed from fear. He was even willing, no, EXPECTING to die during the Susie fight and said "Susie, you... you missed." He was willing to make this sacrifice just to keep her safe from his dad. The same guy who only used to care about being useful to King and making him proud (despite clarly having a soft heart) finally found something more imporant than proving himself, and that's having, being, and remaning a true friend to the end. This is both heartbreaking and beautiful. And from this one scene on, Lancer's remained 100% loyal to his friends, especially Susie (but also never had a single thought about leaving Kris and Ralsei behind).

A child like Monster Kid was clearly naive in UT. They said how they want to be like Undyne when they grow up (all Lancer said was how he wanted to be like Susie, without the "when I grow up" part). Not only that, but Monster Kid isn't even old enough to fight and needs Undyne to protect them, while Lancer is a skilled fighter compared to the rest of the Card Kingdom inhabitants (minus his father). Lancer, as immature as he sometimes is (and for a good reason, if we consider his upbringing), isn’t naive and clueless about the world. Bonus points for his jokes being not only silly but clever and sarcastic. He's like the perfect combo of Papyrus' goofiness and Sans' sarcasm. A child wouldn't be able to ride their bike as well as he does, think of such witty comebacks, or make up creative new words on the spot. A child would babble some stupid stuff, unfunny to teenagers. But Lancer's actually the only person who can make Susie laugh (besides herself).

Now, about this whole 'kid' talk. Lancer, I believe, called himself like this because he sees himself as a child despite being chronologically older. Why? As I said, because of his upbringing and (I think) because his father always saw him as incapable. And Susie addressing him as ‘kid’? It could mean a few things:

1) it was said as a way to mock him for his height, immaturity, or both, and as an addition to the comedy; it's not that deep

2) She thought that he was a kid, but Lancer explained to her that he wasn't when they started hanging out, which would explain why she didn't call him a kid ever again (and called him 'dude' and 'man' instead);

3) It's meant to imply Lancer is 1 or 2 years younger than Susie, but 3 years younger? I don't think so. More than 3? Definitely not.

*I think the first one is the most likely scenario considering she had called him a 'wannabe tough guy’ during their next encounter, while they were still enemies

I respect if you don't like/hate the ship because you see them as siblings, if you headcanon Susie as a lesbian, or if you ship her with someone else. I'm just sick and tired of this reasoning and not being able to enjoy the ship in peace because of people attacking it and its fans.

Edit: There are a lot of things I either forgot to mention, or want to discuss in more detail, so here they are:

-The reason the word 'kid' is repeated so often during our first encounter with him is because someone from the staff accidentally thought Lancer was much older than he really is based on the headcanon voice he gave him, so Toby decided to highlight that Lancer is a kid just like the rest of them (this was spoken of during the 6th anniversary of UT, there's a video on YouTube). Not only that, but Berdly calls himself 'the smart kid', and Susie says something like 'whether you're the smart kid or not, we couldn't care less (referring to Berdly)'. Basically, they're all still "children" (as Queen calls them) even though they're technically teens, and it's not like Lancer is an exception. Heck, Berdly asked: "Who's this guy?" And not "Who's this kid?" because we're already familiar from CH1 that Lancer isn't an adult, so there's no need to highlight it anymore

-Toby wanted to make 4 slots instead of 3 originally so Lancer could be a part of the gang and appear in the status menu, but figured that it would take too much work (from the stream). This proves that all 4 of them are equals; a child wouldn't be able to or allowed to fight alongside teenagers

-Speaking of my previous point, Lancer is a pretty skilled fighter (can throw a ton of spades), he's stronger than a lot of his people (his attack is 7) and also surpingly difficult to kill (during the fight with Susie)

-He acts a lot less stupid than most people give him credit for and is way more emotionally mature. Sure, he's silly for the sake of the comedy, but also clever and sarcastic. You can't convince me, based on his dialogue and interactions, that he acts like a little kid. Once again, I don't understand how those who had played Undertale are now pretending that they don't know Toby's humor is often exaggerated (like in Papyrus' case). It's not their first time seeing someone incompetent and purposefully goofy in his game

‐ If we look inside Lancer's room, we can see that it not only looks similar to Kris and Susie's, (who are, you know, teenagers), but there are also no "childish" things in there, such as toys, posters and action figures (Papyrus has them, and he's an adult). Also, he has a totally normal, spade-themed bed, while Papyrus, again, has one shaped like a car, yet somehow, Lancer is the one seen as a little kid. Sans reads Papyrus *bedtime stories* I repeat: *Sans reads Papyrus, an adult man, or an older teenager, bedtime stories.* NO ONE does this to Lancer.

-Whenever he and Susie interact, I always get the feeling that they're both on the same wavelength. To give an example of what I mean, I'll compare their dynamic to the one between Applejack and Apple Bloom from MLP:FiM. Even though AJ cares about her little sister, they each have their own friend groups. Saying Lancer is a little kid wouldn't make sense, considering how Susie has always treated him as her equal (heck, they even high-fived each other twice in CH2. If that isn't a sign of equality, I don't know what is). I never got the feeling that she was taking care of her "little brother," like a lot of fans seem to think. Even when she tried to save him from the maze, she got lost herself. I mean, who wouldn't do something like this if it meant helping a friend out? Not to mention the many stupid things they did TOGETHER (in the 6th-anniversary stream of UT, Toby stated how neither of the two knows anything about villainy), so it's not Lancer dragging Susie down with him

-This might sound like a nitpick but I think it's important: how Lancer addressed King as 'Father,' and also how King referred to him as a 'traitor'. A little kid would excitedly run up to their dad and say either "Dad!" or "Daddy!" And I highly doubt a kid would be referred to as a traitor

-Susie actually planned to bite his face off, and Ralsei didn't stop her. I'm sure as hell he wouldn't have let a young child get eaten like that. Also, Lancer called him his 'main man,' once again showing that they are similar in age. And if he were really a little kid, Lancer would have annoyed the living daylights out of Susie once they teamed up (ask her to play with him, ask a lot of questions and be overall annoying. Trust me, I've got younger cousins). But instead of that scenario, Susie says "We got bored, so we're having a snack" What does this mean? That Lancer did not act like an annoying little kid, simply because he isn't one. Don't even get me started on how people draw him, because holy hell, it seems to me that 1) most of the fandom is actually blind and doesn't see that he, Ralsei and Kris are all roughly 4 feet tall in the actual game or 2) they try to capture Lancer's childishness by drawing him as a toddler (except, the personality they give him isn't his real one in the first place, considering how he's never acted like a toddler once, so I really don't know what the point of drawing the poor guy like this even is)

-An argument I saw against Susie x Lancer was how "they've never acted romantic with each other" All I have to say in regards to that is how they've literally known each other for roughly 2 DAYS (+ Toby seems to want to make Suselle canon). I can't get behind how people think that love can blossom over such a short period of time. Not everyone believes in 'love at first sight,' and I'm one of those who don't. Crushes, yeah, but they are usually short-lived and always shallow. What we learn about Lancer is that he values sincerity and is very sincere himself (as we can see when Kris tries to compliment him twice) Plus, Susie never had any friends prior to Lancer, so jumping from friendship to romance just like that would be not only bad writing, but also unrealistic. The very reason I love Lancer is how there's no sudden romantic subplot linked to him, like Noelle's obsession with Susie and Ralsei's crush on Kris (I find both of these ships toxic as hell, but I don't want to talk about them here). Just to add something here: despite not moving any romantic subplot forward or being associated with one, Lancer isn't unfamiliar with the concept (as seen in CH2 when he calls himself handsome and admits to 'having fallen in love'). I honestly think that, much like Papyrus, Lancer isn't linked to any kind of romantic subplot simply because he's the comic relief, so it would affect the comedic part of his character

-Why is everyone complaining about this ship, but not a literal child (Frisk, who most people see as 8-12 years old), going on a date with an adult skeleton, Papyrus? (at least, people usually percieve him as a young adult, but he could also be a teenager) Either way, it isn't a small age gap. Also, why is Frans such a popular ship even though one character is a child (Frisk) and the other clearly an adult (Sans)? You could argue that Frisk's age hasn't been confirmed, and skeletons don't age because they're undead, but still, Papyrus and Sans were not introduced as, you know, skeleton boys, and yet somehow both ships are acceptable, but Susie x Lancer isn't? Not just that, but people age Frisk up when it comes to the Frans ship and there's far less hate for it than the ship that isn't even pedophilic?

-People are also totally fine with ships like Dipper x Wendy (Gravity Falls), Aang x Katara (ATLA), Toph x Sokka (also ATLA), Spike x Rarity (MLP:FiM), and such. There is a clear age gap in all of these pairings, but they're not seen as problematic in any way

-I bet that, if Ralsei had a childish personality, or literally any other character, they'd also be seen as a kid/toddler. Even a baby for some reason? I don't understand this. The way people perceive Lancer, when it comes to both height and personality, is completely different from how he acts in the game. Sure, he's loud, flamboyant and obnoxious, but also chill and sarcastic. And sure, Lancer does have the tendency to act dumber than average, but THAT'S THE POINT of a character who's a COMIC RELIEF

-"But King doesn't allow Lancer to say tier-two swear words!" Neither does Greg from Steven Universe, and Steven was 14. You know, a teenager. In case people are curious about which episode I'm talking about, it's "Beach City Drift". Basically, Greg doesn't allow Steven to say words like 'hate' and 'creep'. That's even worse than not allowing your teenage son (who is still a minor and therefore you still have authority over him) to say tier-two swear words!

-"Why does King make his people take care of Lancer if he isn't a little kid or allow him to eat from the Dark Candy tree?" To make sure he's acting like a proper prince and not the goofball he is deep down, if you ask me. And because he doesn't take the poor guy seriously. As for the Dark Candy; once again, eating sweets isn't considered 'princely' and, as I mentioned above, Lancer is still a minor, so King still has the authority to tell him what to do and punish him in whatever way he wants (having to take a shower every time he reads a swear word, possibly being starved, according to a few lines, and even being emotionally and physically abused). Emotionally, in the sense that King belittled him, made him feel worthless, ignored whatever Lancer had to say and used him in a manipulative way to achive his goal of serving the Knight (the first two points are guesses, while we saw the other two on screen). Physically, based on the fact that he becomes worried when he realizes his friends and his dad are gonna fight. I have no doubt that King was phyiscally violent towards him at least once, considering how terrified Lancer is. He knows what King is capable of because he himself experienced his wrath. I see Lancer's upbringing as that of a lonely, overprotected person, who's also royalty. There are a lot of examples of this type of upbringing, whether we're talking about real people or fictional characters (like Rapunzel, for example)

-Zuko from Avatar: The Last Airbender took over the Fire Nation at 16. This makes sense. I don't imagine Lancer being much younger when he took over the Card Kingdom

-"The reason why the guards obeyed Lancer when he told them to imprison Kris, Susie, and Ralsei is that King made them obey his every order!" Then why can Lancer make his own laws (+ he knows what the word means, which wouldn't be the case if he were too young) without asking RK for permission, and why do Lancer's people listen to him without complaining when he orders them not to attack/kill us at the beginning of CH2 (if we attacked the Darkeners in CH1)? King isn't in charge anymore, so it's not out of fear. They all clearly grew to respect Lancer and his authority. They wouldn't respect a child like this

-"In the stream, Toby said Lancer is a boy!" So what? We've got Ralsei, who people call 'fluffy boy,' and Susie, who's known as 'purple girl'. I bet Berdly and Noelle would also be known as 'bird boy' and 'reindeer girl'. Even Lancer refers to Kris, Ralsei, and Susie as 'boys or girls' In the same stream, when they got to the part where we first meet Lancer, someone said something along the lines of "Now it's time to replace the fluffy boy (Ralsei) with another boy (Lancer)" In other words, they're both referred to as boys and therefore must have similar ages. Yet SOMEHOW it's acceptable to ship Susie x Ralsei but not Susie x Lancer

-The Fun Gang (Kris, Susie, Ralsei, Lancer, Noelle, and probably Berdly too) is their friend group, right? It wouldn’t make sense for the five of them to be teens, and for Lancer to be the only one who’s a child. Deltarune is clearly a story about teenagers finding their place in the world

-King wouldn't have trusted a child with something as important to him as destroying Lightners

-The Jack of Spades (the card which Lancer represents) is associated with a young man, not a child

-The thing I absolutely can't stand is how people who headcanon Lancer as a little kid act like their headcanon is canon and somehow think that 'they're right while others 'are wrong'

-Him not understanding what a 'mom' is, if we really want to look too deep into this (which I doubt we should since Toby's characters are often comically exaggerated and act sillier than 'normal'), could have something to do with how Darkeners are created in the first place. We don't know anything about them if you think about it. Whether they are 'born' or not, or if they even age. Maybe everyone in the Dark World will always remain the way they are physically. We don't know yet

-Queen adopting him in order to take care of him makes sense, considering he is, you know, a minor. Saying he doesn't need a mother figure is like saying Kris doesn't need Toriel

-In the live stream I mentioned earlier, the team talked about Lancer's original concept art, and announced how he was originally going to ride a motorcycle (making him 16). I don't imagine that they'd age him down from 16 to, let's say, 10 years old ↓

-Another thing that might contribute to people seeing him as a "little kid" is his design. What I mean by this is how Lancer's "eyes" (if that face he made was canon and not just a meme) are not in alignment with the eyes of, let's say, Kris and Ralsei. I'm certain this has to do with his species (the spade he has for a head isn't a hoodie but a part of his body; I came to this conclusion after I saw how he can move the top part of his head up and down when he's happy/sad, kind of like what a dog does with its ears). And, let's imagine for a moment that the rest of the gang were the same species as Lancer; they'd all be the same height then, if we apply logic here. They'd also all be the same height if everyone were a human/goat/dino. In other words, Lancer is of completely average height for a spade. There's this logic going on in the fandom that, since Lancer isn't that tall + is goofy + isn't skinny, he's a little kid. But if he weren't chubby or immature, even if he remained on the shorter side, I 95% believe he'd be drawn normally, just like Kris is drawn

-I'm no good at math and numbers, but let's try to think logically once again. In Berdly's flashback, he and Noelle are seen participating in the spelling bee, making them 8 years old (that's the youngest kids can be in order to participate). In the present moment, they're roughly twice the size they used to be back then, right? That would make them around 15 or 16 currently, because 8+8=16. The exact same comparison can be linked to Lancer. When he was 8, he was shorter than he is now, as a teen ↓

-Also, here's a comparison of Monster Kid, Frisk, Sans, Lancer and Kris. It's clear, looking at the image below, that the first two are children, that Sans is a simply short adult, while the last two are teens ↓

-In the stream, Toby showed us some more concept art for Lancer. In this particular picture, we can see that he used Kris' height to design Lancer. Since we know Kris is a teenager, that must mean that Lancer is one too ↓

-Why does everyone think Lancer is younger than Susie? He could be older than her, but we don't know it, and probably never will because ages in UT were never canonized either

-"But Lancer looks up to Susie so he must be a lot younger!" I once again have to draw parallels between two fandoms. In Kung Fu Panda, Po looks up to Tigress even though they're on the same team and have similar ages. There's nothing weird about looking up to someone, whether they're older, younger, or the same age as you. Lancer idolizes Susie because she's tough, tall and physically strong (I repeat, it's all because of her species and NOT because she's older). Her age has nothing to do with her physical appearance

-Also, why do people think that when someone says 'I ship these two characters,' that automatically means they want them to do something sexual? Ships can be just romantic and sweet, you know?

-During the sleepover after chapter 2's pacifist route, Susie mentions how cool it would be if Ralsei and Lancer could come to visit the Light World and explains how Ralsei could be mistaken for Kris' cousin, as well as how Lancer would live under Kris' bed. Right after this, she excitedly says how all of them could walk to school together and be an unstoppable team. This is proof that all four of them are not only high schoolers, but also that the age gap between them isn't larger than 1 year (sophomores are between ages 15-16, so that would mean that Lancer (and probably Ralsei) is 15, while the other two are either 15 or 16). They must be sophomores because Catti has a job (Berdly too); you have to be 16, at least. Maybe 15. But definitely not younger than that. Again, no pedophilia here

-A little theory I have is that, in the end credits of the final chapter, we'll finally get to see Lancer riding a real motorcycle, but that's just what I'm hoping to see, and it may or may not age well. This would mean that he would have turned 16 by the end of the game

-Typical teeage behavior ↓

-And, most imporantly, THE TIME THE GAME ACTUALLY DEBUNKED IT. Now, I don't know how many people actually payed attention to this little moment (I found it on accident) ↓

Let's break this down into a few segments to understand it better: Lancer challenges Kris, Susie, and Ralsei to a race to their new rooms. Instead of saying "the last one there is a rotten egg," he, for the sake of the comedy and his unique speech pattern, says "the last one there is a fresh and fragrant egg" We can say that there is no deeper meaning behind this particular choice of words, but to me, a "fresh and fragrant egg" represents youth (adolescence).

Ralsei asks him why he's standing if they're supposed to be racing, and Lancer replies with: "I wanna be the egg!" According to my interpretation, he's trying to say how he wants to be "the loser," "the failure," "the underdog," or something similar. In other words, he wants to be the last/the worst.

Finally, he adds: "You won't get through your teen years without at least one Egg." Whether this is referring to how he wants to experience failure/ being the loser and finds it to be an important/essential part of growing up, or maybe there's some other meaning behind being an "Egg," it's clear as day now that he's a teenager. Any of them (Kris, Susie Ralsei, or Lancer) could have been "the egg" in this race if they had ended up last. We know that the other three are teens, and if Lancer is saying how he wants to experience being "the egg," and associates it as an essential part of being a teen, that means he's in the same boat as the others and is also a teen. "One Egg" is probably linked to failure as well, so if we translated the dialogue into a non-metaphorical one, it would go something like this:

"The last one there is a loser!"

"I wanna be the loser! You won't get through your teen years without being the loser at least once!"

So yeah, that's all the reasons why Lancer is NOT a little kid. Thanks to anyone who read all this. And if you're still gonna be a hater, then ok. Waste your time insulting random people on the internet and make them feel terrible about themselves for having an opinion (though, it's not even an opinion after the final point) about a work of fiction, instead of enjoying the things you want to enjoy and minding your own business

P.S. I may have forgotten to mention a few more arguments: 1) Lancer is strong enough to carry Susie's entire weight on his back/head; what little kid could do that? 2) Lancer's attacks are numerous and strong enough to make SUSIE, THE PHYSICALLY STRONGEST member of the team, FLINCH. 3) At the hospital, Rudy mentions something about Noelle playing a "children's" game, I think it was in ch2, gotta go check, but the point is, Rudy (and Queen, by calling them children a few times) considers these teenagers to be "children" Which honestly makes a lot of sense since they're all still under 18. 4) There is not a SINGLE "little kid" in this entire game. Let's see here... we have Kris, Ralsei, Susie, Noelle, Berdly, Temmie, Monster Teen, Snowy, Catti and Jockington... who are ALL 'big kids' (teenagers). And you're trying to tell me the only person who's 10 years old is Lancer?? Get outta here. 5) It makes sense that Deltarune is about teens. Why? Because it is supposed to be a 'more mature' game than Undertale. Teenagers go through all the stuff DT characters go through (family problems, depression, loneliness, crushes, feeling clueless about who you truly are etc.) Lancer has family problems, he used to be lonely, and he was completely misguided because of his dad. Typical teenage problems he's experiencing here. 6) I don't expect a kid who's 10 years old or less to be into motorcycles. That's logically a teen thing. Otherwise we'd see him ride normally on a bicycle with a helmet on, just wanting to play, like, you know, a child. 7) Oh yeah, and Toriel mentioned something about Susie being a bad influence on Kris, so there's that. Lancer and Noelle ("I wish I could do crazy stuff like you...") willingly look up to Susie, while Kris and Ralsei are unwillingly influenced by her (at least, Ral was). This is called *peer pressure* Because they're all teens. But Susie's dominant. So... yeah.

Anyway, I don't care what people ship. I'm fine if you hate susancer. It's not for everyone. What DOES piss me off so much though is the lack of respect Lancer gets, how he's treated as this "bouncy little pumpkin uwu" despite being one of, if not, the most useful character in the game plot-wise so far + a great comedic relief. I'm sick of him being drawn and treated as a toddler. So sick of it.

I get that the kids in the fandom still lack critical thinking, but older teens and adults, too?

In any case, I'm signing off for real this time. Thanks for reading.

#lancer #susie #susie x lancer #lancer x susie #deltarune #lancer deltarune #susie deltarune #character analysis #debunking

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