I feel bad for Starlo.
Star has a point, idk what the four were ticked off about, there is like 99% chance everyone willingly participated in the trolley problem, based on what we've seen of his behavior thus far it's not like Starlo to be that big of a jerk/drag them by force/yell at them to do it. Ed's words:
he does it because Star asks NICELY
clearly jealous
It genuinely seemed like a fun time/fun roleplay, especially since every day is the same. Like, the five are supposed to be a rowdy and adventures bunch, what exactly did Starlo do wrong, I'm genuinely confused and curious. Except taking a big liking in Clover (his posse should know that this is a big moment for him, according to Blackjack they've known each other since high school and had the same liking for westerns. So they were basically a nerd gang.) Starlo was kind, patient and considerate towards Clover the whole time, even warned Mooch about them not being bandits, taught Clover gun safety, wanted to bring his posse along for a fun time, thanked Ace for telling him about getting Clover a new hat...
Sure, at first he only liked Clover for being a human, but as Ceroba says, that changed and he grew to genuinely care about them, plus I can't help but think Star saw himself in Clover and that's part of the reason he was so proud of them all the time even when they messed up (I'll talk more about this at some point)
What exactly made Ace want to leave the gang? He even said how he doesn't mind "getting run over by the fake train"
he's so nice. says sorry for forgetting the safety goggles even when he was scatterbrained due to his excitement. I love him so much
The only real "faults" (I'll call them temporary faults) I saw in Star during the Wild East section was that he was even more enthusiastic and more proud than usual. But how couldn't he be when he met a member of the species that he has admired for so long because they have real cowboys and sheriffs on the surface (who are seen as brave heroes who deliver justice, while Star canonically feels like a nobody farmer). His posse should have realized Clover wouldn't be there forever and just let their boss enjoy himself with his "deputy who'd have to leave sooner or later anyway"(or be more patient with him/ask him why he feels this strongly towards Clover/if there's a deeper reason for that). His friends including Ceroba just turn their back on him so quickly instead. The moment he's gotten the chance to feel valued for once and put himself first and not have to take care of this whole town and everyone in it and live his dream of meeting a real human, suddenly "his personality is damaged?"
Star's literally built this whole town, organised everything, he worries about everyone, Ceroba (plus was the one to give her emotional strength before and after Clover's sacrifice), Kanako, the monsters, his family, struggles with feelings of worthlessness yet never wipes that smile off his face, always does his best to be hopeful and optimistic and make others laugh, gave his posse a nap time so they don't become exhausted, gave Ceroba a free home, didn't act upon his feelings towards her and was a 110% supportive, caring friend instead. THAT'S who he is. He's the papa bear of this friend group, the glue holding everyone together.
He was just *really* excited. Y'all know he's insecure and just wishes to escape who he is and yet y'all blame him for liking Clover so much. Yeah, the four are very clearly jealous. But why won't the four of you control your feelings for a while? As mentioned, Clover WILL HAVE TO LEAVE EVENTUALLY. They won't be Star's "deputy" forever (the kid who's just as into westerns as he is, who values justice just as much, who also values doing the right thing. Someone he clearly felt understood in the presence of, whom he loved; just look at the way he talks about Clove during Showdown). Star seems genuinely confused of what he did wrong poor guy just wanted to live his fantasy for once and feel important:
Even at the beginning Moray's like "oh no Martlet is upset" Mooch replies "don't be a buzzkill nothing exciting ever happens around here" and Ray's like "Yeah you've got a point"
If you all agreed to have a little fun with a human who will very soon leave forever why is Starlo's enthusiasm such a big problem? If the posse weren't into this after all (unless they were simply too jealous which could have been solved with a honest talk and a little patience) why are you doing this "rowdy" job with Star in the first place? Do you want your boring routine day to day life so much back? Or just for Clover to leave (which they will soon enough)? You, western enthusiasts, literally met a real human, A HUMAN FROM WESTERNS YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE PASSIONATELY INTO (clearly not as passionate as Star but passionate ENOUGH to understand where he's coming from).
... okay.
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any thoughts on how once again zelda was robbed of her agency because her "father figure" didn't listen to her? even if rauru was kinder to her than her father. and that she had sonia who was patient and loving for a little while before she died (just like her mother). i know rauru apologizes for his hubris but still, i wish we saw zelda be upset about it. and even if zelda was such a big part of the quest she still literally sacrificed her humanity once again because of someone else's mistake- because rauru literally didn't listen to the girl from the future that warned you that shit was going to go down. o know nintendo just loves putting zelda inside crystals and stones but i wish we got something better. even if it was her decision to become a dragon... did she have any other choice? it really just feels like they robbed her of agency again just like botw and the games before
i've been trying to figure out how to answer this one. because there are two ways i could analyze this plot point, either from a writer's perspective or an in-story perspective, but neither of those lead to me fully agreeing with your interpretation? I think there's definitely something to be said about zelda consistently being pushed aside in these games, but. well. ok let's get into it ig
from a writer's perspective, I do honestly have quite a bit of sympathy for the zelda devs as they attempt to navigate the modern political landscape with these games. The cyclical lore, though canonized relatively recently, holds them to a standard of consistency in their games in terms of certain key elements. one of those key elements is that there has to be a princess, and that princess must somehow be the main macguffin of the game. The player must chase her, and the end goal of the game must be to reunite the player and the princess. In 1986 this was an incredibly easy sell. women didn't need to be characters. players were content with saving a 2-dimensional princess whose only purpose was to tell them "good job!" at the end. but as society advances, that princess becomes a much more difficult character to write while adhering to the established overarching canon. (as a side note: i don't necessarily believe that the writers SHOULD be held to the standards of that canon. I think deviating from it in certain areas would be a good change of pace. but i also recognize that deviations from the formula are widely hated by the loz playerbase and that they're trying to make money off these games, so we're working under the established rule that the formula must be at least loosely adhered to.) Modern fans want a princess who is a person, who has agency and makes decisions and struggles in the same way the hero does. but modern fans ALSO want a game that follows the established rules of the canon. so we need a princess who is a real character but who can ALSO serve as a macguffin within the narrative, something that is inherently somewhat objectifying.
the two games that i think do the best job writing a princess with agency are skyward sword and botw (based on your ask, our opinions differ there lol. hear me out) in both games, we have a framing event which seperates zelda and link, but in both games, that separation was ZELDA'S CHOICE. skyward sword zelda runs away from link out of fear of hurting him. botw zelda chooses to return to the castle alone to allow link the time he needs to heal. sksw kinda fumbled later on by having ghirahim kidnap her anyway, but. i said BEST not PERFECT. botw zelda I think is the better example because, with the context of the memories, she's arguably MORE of a character than link is. we see her struggles, her breakdowns, her imperfection, specifically we see her struggle with her lack of agency within the context of the game itself. when she steps in front of link in the final memory, and when she chooses to return to the castle, those are some of the first choices we see her make almost completely free of outside influence; a RECLAMATION of her agency (within the narrative) after years of having it stripped from her. from an objective viewer's standpoint, this writing decision still means she is absent from 90% of the game and that she has little control over her actions for the duration of the player's journey. however I think this is just about the best they could have done to create a princess with agency and a real character arc while still keeping the macguffin formula intact--you're not really SAVING zelda in botw. SHE is the one that is saving YOU; when you wake up on the plateau with no memories, too weak to fight bokoblins, let alone calamity ganon. the reason you are allowed to train and heal in early-game botw is because SHE is in the castle holding ganon back, protecting YOU. When you enter the final fight, you're not rescuing zelda, you're relieving her of her duty. taking over the work she's been doing for the past hundred years. in the final hour, you both work in tandem to defeat ganon. while this isn't a PERFECT example of a female character with agency and narrative weight, i think it's a pretty good one, especially in the context of save-the-princess games like loz.
as for totk, you put a lot of emphasis on rauru not believing zelda and taking action immediately, which, again, from an objective standpoint, i understand. but even when we're writing characters with social implications in mind, those character's actions still need to... make sense. Rauru was a king ruling over what he believed to be a perfectly peaceful kingdom. zelda literally fell out of the sky, landed in front of him, claimed to be his long-lost granddaughter, and then told him that some random ruler of a fringe faction in the desert was going to murder him and he had to get the jump on it by killing him first. the ruler which this girl is trying to convince rauru to wage an unprompted war on has the power to disguise himself as other people. no one in their right mind would immediately take the girl at her word. war is not something any leader should jump into without proper research and consideration, and to rauru's credit, he DIDN'T ever outright dismiss zelda. he believed her when she said she was from the future, he allowed her to work with him and he took her warnings as seriously as he could without any further proof. but he could not wage an unprompted war on ganondorf. that's just genuinely not practical, especially for a king who values peace among his people as much as rauru seems to. as soon as ganondorf DID attack, giving rauru confirmation that zelda's accounts of the future were real, he began making preparations to confront him. remember that zelda didn't KNOW that rauru and sonia were going to be casualties of the war--she didn't make the connection between rauru's arm in the future and rauru the king until AFTER sonia's death, when rauru made the decision to attack ganondorf directly. I think the imprisoning war and the casualties of it were less an issue of zelda being denied agency and more an issue of no one, including zelda, having full context for the events as they were unfolding. if zelda had KNOWN that sonia and rauru were going to die from the beginning and was still unable to prevent it that would be a different issue, but she didn't. none of them did.
I think another thing worth pointing out with rauru and his death irt zelda is that rauru is clearly written specifically as a foil to rhoam. this is evident in how he treats both zelda and link, with a constant kindness and understanding which is clearly opposite to rhoam's dismissiveness and disappointment. consider rhoam's death and the circumstances surrounding it. He died because, in zelda's eyes, she was unable to do her duty; the one thing he constantly berated her for. Rhoam's death solidified zelda's belief that she was a failure, a belief which she KNEW rhoam held as well. his death was doubly traumatic to her because she knew he died believing it was her fault. Now contrast that to the circumstances surrounding rauru's death. Rauru CHOSE to die despite zelda's warnings, because he wanted zelda and his kingdom to live. rauru's death was not agency-stripping for zelda; in fact, it functioned almost as an admission that he believed her capable of continuing to live in his place. With him gone, the fate of the kingdom fell to her and the sages. he KNEW that he would die and still went into that battle confidently, trusting zelda to make the right decisions once he was gone. where rhoam believed zelda incapable of doing ANYTHING without link, rauru trusted zelda COMPLETELY with the fate of his kingdom. several details in totk confirm that when rauru died there was no plan for zelda to draconify, that all happened after rauru was gone. it was HER plan, the plan which rauru trusted her to come up with once he was gone. and I think it's also worth noting that zelda's sacrifice with the draconification parallels rauru's!! Rauru gives up his life trusting the sages and his people to be able to continue his work in his place. Zelda gives up her physical form trusting link and the sages in the future to be able to figure out what to do and find her. these games in general have this recurring theme but totk specifically is all about love and trust and reliance on others. zelda relies on link, link relies on zelda, they both rely on the champions and the sages and rauru and sonia and they all rely each other. reliance on others isn't lack of agency, it's a constant choice they make, and that choice is the thing which allows them to triumph.
The draconification itself is something i view similarly to zelda's sacrifice in botw--a choice she makes which, symbolically & within the confines of the narrative, is a demonstration of her reclaimed agency and places her at the center of the narrative, but which ALSO removes her from much of the player's experience and robs her of any overt presence or decisionmaking within the gameplay. again, I think this is a solution to the macguffin-with-agency dilemma, and it's probably one of the better solutions they could have come up with. Would I have liked to see a game where zelda is more present within the actual gameplay? yes, but I also understand that at this point the writers aren't quite willing to deviate that much from their formula. the alternative within the confines of this story would be to let zelda DIE in the past, removing her from gameplay ENTIRELY, which is an infinitely worse option in my opinion. draconification allowed her to be present, centered the narrative around her, and allowed the writers to reiterate the game's theme of trust and teamwork when she assists the player in the final battle, which i think was a REALLY great choice, narratively speaking.
In any case, I don't think it's right to say that zelda was completely robbed of her agency in botw and totk. Agency doesn't always mean that she's unburdened and constantly present, it means she's given the freedom to make her own choices and that her choices are realistically written with HER in mind, not just the male characters around her, and I think botw/totk do a pretty good job of writing her and her choices realistically and with nuance.
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Intensely Spicy Curry Training: Hypmic Curry Drama Track TL
Kuukou: Y’all sure took your sweet time getting here! I’ve already got everything prepared!
Jyushi: But didn’t you tell us to meet you at the temple?
Hitoya: If we’re making curry, why the hell are we way out in the mountains to do it?
Kuukou: Because I just had a great idea. Check this out!
Jyushi: Ooooh, look at all this meat! So, we’re going to be using all of this in our curry?
Hitoya: Beef and chicken, huh? I guess it would make sense not cook these while inside your temple.
Kuukou: You’re half right, and half wrong.
Jyushi: What do you mean?
Kuukou: I don’t plan to make just any ol’ curry. Now it’s time for the both of y’all to mince the hell out of this meat!!
Hitoya: I didn’t know whether to expect if a corrupt little monk such as yourself knew how to cook, but I’m surprised. Instead of using something pre-made, if we pound and mince the meat ourselves, we’d get a far more superior product. Is that what you were thinking?
Jyushi: Oh, I see! That’s amazing, Kuukou-san!
Hitoya: So, where’d you put the food processor?
Kuukou: Ah?? The hell are you on? You’re grinding this meat with your bare hands.
Jyushi: …Eh?
Kuukou: Jyushi, you’re on beef! Hitoya, you’re taking the chicken! Punch it with everything you’ve got and make minced meat out of it!! This is a new training session I thought up!
Hitoya: What the hell is this fool saying??
Jyushi: B-But there’s so much meat!! Grinding it by hand is impossible!!
Kuukou: I don’t want to hear any complaints!! You don’t know that unless you try!
Jyushi & Hitoya: *reluctantly pounds the meat by hand*
Jyushi: *tearfully* …My body’s going to become minced meat before the actual beef!
Hitoya: Damn it, I can’t believe I let my guard down like this…! I shouldn’t have expected we’d simply make curry…!
Kuukou: You can’t expect to get anywhere with a weak spirit behind weak fists like that!! Lemme show you how it’s done!
Kuukou: *starts punching*
Hitoya: You bastard, those are vegetables!!
Jyushi: E-Even I could mince a tomato by hand!
Kuukou: It doesn’t matter either way!! Whether it’s vegetables or meat, all that matters is the heart you’re putting behind it!!
Jyushi: T-That doesn’t make any sense…!!
Kuukou: “Enlightenment can be attained through one thousand fists!” Don’t just keep yapping and put some energy into your hips and legs too!
Hitoya: Tch, I don’t see any way out of this… Then, I might as well get it over with…!! UWOOOOOOOOOAAAARRRRGHHHH!!!!!!!! *maximum effort punching*
Jyushi: H-Hitoya-san??
Kuukou: Hyahaha! There’s the effort I wanna see!
Jyushi: Guh… Because My God has unshackled the chains binding his true power, I, too, must unlock mine to continue alongside him…! HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!! *maximum effort punching*
-------------------------
Jyushi: I-I can’t move another inch…
Hitoya: Ugh… I can’t even take the cap off my water bottle…
Kuukou: *sighs* It’s pretty pathetic to be that exhausted just from cooking.
Hitoya: You…!!!
Jyushi: But, I think it would be really nice if our training efforts could be felt by those eating our curry…!
Hitoya: …Well, I don’t think I’d say it like that, but I agree with the sentiment.
*the trees rustle and the birds chirp and there is peace*
Kuukou: The fuck are y’all talking about? There’s no point to this if the people who eating aren’t going through training too.
Jyushi: Eh?
Kuukou: Training can only be felt when you grow from the trials you’ve experienced yourself. Hopping off from other people’s efforts won’t mean shit.
Jyushi: B-but I mean, we’ll still be serving the curry to others once it’s finished cooking, right?
Kuukou: Yup. Which is why I’ve got…!
Hitoya: UWAH!! MY EYES!! IT’S IN MY EYES!!
Jyushi: That powder…!!
Hitoya: It’s red chili pepper!! Jyushi, run!! Move upwind so it doesn’t blow and stick to your mucous membrane!!
Jyushi: Eeek!!! *runs away sobbing*
Kuukou: HYAHAHAHAHAHA!!
Hitoya: Kuukou, you bastard, what are you doing? Are you trying to ruin everything we worked on??
Kuukou: I’m not ruining a damn thing! This curry will be spicy so I can provide a remote kind of training!
Hitoya: Stop fucking around!! There’s gotta be a limit!!
Jyushi: *runs back over* I think there’s more chili pepper powder than ingredients now…!!
Kuukou: Then it’s just right! Now try it.
Jyushi: NO!! I will not be eating!! I absolutely refuse!! Don’t even try me!!
Kuukou: Hey stupid, watch it, that’s dangerous!! Stop fighting me and just—Ahh??
Jyushi: T-The inside of the pot is pitch black……!!
Hitoya: Obviously. Chili peppers burn easily. Haah… Let’s just remake the curry.
Jyushi: But doesn’t that mean we’ll have to mince more meat??
Kuukou: Whatever, I was thinking our “Intensely Spicy Curry Training” was made too halfheartedly anyway!! Time to give it all I got and win this championship!!
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