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#her relationship with jace has so much potential
lunamond · 1 month
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I need more unhinged mothers and their monstrous offspring.
I need more of whatever this shit is:
"What have you done to me?"
"I gave birth to you."
And also:
"Do you love me?"
"You imbecile."
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wannaeatramyeon · 10 months
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You hit the nail on the head! I‘ll ask for more professional assessment: honest opinion on Crystal?
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Following on from my ramblings about Sally Park. Oops! Edited to add in Zoe too.
Well written female characters in Lookism? Uhh...
When the bar is at an all time low, it's really not hard to step over it.
At this point, I've been pavloved to think that any female character that expresses a personality trait other than 'simp' is pretty good. Simp is fun when it's part of a list of characteristics (Zack, Ryuhei). Not so much when it's the only thing.
Long live PTJ, the greatest feminist. Anyway.
Female characters I like
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Mary Kim
Love her. Empress of 2 seconds. Queen of my heart.
Surprisingly kept a platonic relationship with Vin Jin, showing quite a healthy mixed gender friendship. Sassy and smart. Loyal. Good taste in men (Jace). Is shown having a life and interests outside of a man.
On my hands and knees praying that PTJ doesn't ruin her. Kinda glad she hasn't appeared in a while so she is kept away from his incessant need to turn everyone into a love interest.
Lua Im
Once we got over the odd Johan panels, which I heard the Korean audience didn't like and I'm quite happy about, she's fine. And it's not that I care that much about Johan staying a single dog-dad, I just needed a coherent reasoning/build up why they would be interested in one another.
Lua has potential.
Sourcing intel, even impressing the likes of Gun? A little Muay Thai knowledge? Jake and Jerry scared of her? Lol. Ok. Good. Let's build on this.
Just please don't white knight her.
Crystal Choi (meh)
And Ms. Choi, because anon specifically asked. I really don't mind her? I know she's meant to be anti-Lookism but still judges people based on their looks eh. That's fine. Pretty realistic actually. Whatever.
She can be a bit bitchy for no reason. So can I. Handwaving all that.
What I do take issue with though, is her so called title of Business Genius. Please show me the chapter where she actually does something to earn that title besides the one where other people ooh-ed and aah-ed over her in the meeting with DG.
Wow she's sooooo gorgeous. Ok good for her. If that's the route they're taking her character then at least OWN. THAT. SHIT. Use her beauty and looks to sign deals and get what she wants. GOOD. DO IT.
Zoe Park (also meh... Wait)
Sorry anon, I think 'really well written' is a bit of a reach... She does have some decent character development, starting as quite a flighty, shallow girl and then showing that she has a heart of gold, liking both Daniels and. Huh.
Wait. You're right. She is pretty well written. She's selfless and kind and loyal to her friends, putting up with Logan's bullshit. There's enough of a character arc for her from the Zoe we're introduced to at first.
And I do like that she's good at maths too.
Wasted potential
Minseong Kang (Jake's momma)
Appreciate this is the older generation and from a much more conservative culture. Saying that, I am so over the slighted and bitter housewife rotting at home while her big powerful husband cheats on her.
And then some sort of marriage redemption cos they pop out a kid. Whatever. (Sorry Jake bb, I love you).
If you were going to do that, give me the most toxic red flag shit where they are constantly at each other's THROATS. Show me how they are equals. Can't live with or without one another. That's the good kinda shit.
Leonn Lee
I just. What the fuck was this.
A girl in Burn Knuckles? A group that reeks of testerone and (positive) masculinity? Show us why she joined! Show us why she stays. SURPRISE. Main character trait?? Having a crush on Vasco.
She could have been SO interesting. And she obviously trains, why not get her to fight?
Hate for irrational reasons
Joy Hong
Listen, she's not really in enough or significant enough for me to really feel one way or another about her. BUT. The reason I HATE her is because I was trying to write a headcanon involving everyone and then I got to Joy and I was STUMPED.
Sub in a plank of wood, and it would have the same depth of personality.
Truly. Who is she apart from Jay's sister and a Daniel simp? At least everyone else has something.
Others
I don't really think about them. Sera Shin has potential I guess.
And of course a special mention to Daniel's momma. She's not exactly a unique character, but who doesn't love her?
LET. THEM. FIGHT.
Lastly. Why can't we see women fight? Like the men's fights are realistic LOL. Ultra instinct? Smashing through walls? So why are women fighting men outside the realms of this.
And yes yes. Men are SoOoOoOo strong. But can they take a kick to the balls?
Are you saying Gun Park has been training his dick and balls and would be able to eat a hit there? He wouldn't go down like a heap of shit??
HUH. TELL ME THAT.
In Summary
Mary by and large is pretty well written. Lua has improved.
I don't care much about anyone else.
And I wanna see Gun, Goo, Sammy, Vin etc. get kicked in the balls in a fight.
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starkskeep · 1 year
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When the Dragon Howls (5)
When the Dragon Howls Chapter Five
Characters - Cregan Stark x OC (Maera Velaryon), Aegon Targaryen, Aemond Targaryen
Summary - Maera Velaryon feels consumed by the obsessive clutches of her uncles. A wolf from Winterfell could potentially be the one strong enough to confront the dragons.
Word Count - 1,829 words
Warnings - Typical Targaryen relationships. Aemond is a bit aggressive towards Maera. Aegon being Aegon. Maera being so deep in denial that she is interested in Cregan.
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Later on, that week, Maera broke fast with her family. It was an intimate gathering that Maera felt safe and comfortable in. Unlike most of the time they spent in the Red Keep, her family did not need to mask their true intentions when it was just them together. They were able to share their true thoughts and plan without being overheard. Daemon made sure of it. It was he who drew Maera out of her thoughts by addressing her from his seat. “It has escaped no one’s notice that you have been spending much of your time at the training grounds. Why is that?” Maera heard her brothers snickering, Baela too. She shot them a glare before answering Daemon. “It is interesting to see how everyone fights. I am also supporting Jace and Luke as a devoted sister would. I see no issue with it nor how it is a source of gossip around the castle.” Her brothers could not stifle their laughter any longer and did as brothers do no matter their standing in society—tease their sister. Jace was the first to speak after regaining his breath. “You’re not there for us. If you were, you would watch us when we are at Dragonstone or any of the other times in the past that we have trained.” Luke quickly agreed with his brother but was much less composed, still wracked with waves of giggles. “Yeah! You have only come to watch us since Lord Cregan has started helping with our training. You can’t keep your eyes off of him!” Maera kicks Luke under the table. She practically screeches as her face is flush with embarrassment. “That is a blatant lie!” Daemon leans back in his chair and smirks. “Maera. I can’t help but believe your brothers. Cregan Stark seems to be the only difference in circumstance that is drawing you to observe the training.” Maera scoffs at her stepfather and turns to face her mother who had been silently observing her family with a smile. “Mother! Are you going to let them malign my name such as this? I have done nothing wrong.” Rhaenyra shares a look with Daemon before reaching out to smooth down her daughter's hair. She places a kiss on Maera’s forehead before speaking. “I know you have not done anything wrong my sweet girl. Quite the opposite. I approve of your courtship with Cregan Stark. He is an honorable man and will make a fine husband.” Baela joins in on the teasing. “Quite handsome too.” Jace gives Baela an affronted look but it goes unnoticed as Maera lets out a shriek. She uses her chair back and leaves the room in a flurry of embarrassment, yelling over her shoulder as she goes. “I am not courting Cregan Stark!” Baela speaks up as the family turns back to their meal after Maera’s outburst. “She is utterly besotted with him.” They all smiled amongst themselves, satisfied that they could get the normally composed princess so worked up.
Frustrated by her family, Maera headed to the Godswood. Not many people in the Red Keep spent time there. Most of the guests would still be asleep and the servants would be too busy preparing for another day of festivities to pay her any attention. Maera was contemplative as she walked. What did it matter to her family if she happened to be spending more time at the training yard? Truly she wasn’t doing anything wrong. Who were they to tell her what her true reasons are for doing so? She wasn’t someone who would change what she does in the hopes that she catches the glimpse of a man. Maera did not view herself as one of the empty-headed court ladies who tittered behind their fans and fainted as soon as a man showed them affection. In order to be happy in her future marriage, she needed to keep a clear head. She was not going to be trapped by a selfish husband like most of the other women. Maera knew that she was going to watch the men at the training yard to observe and assess her potential suitors. She was not there to gawk at Lord Cregan, even though he was quite handsome with the sharpness of his jaw, Northern ruggedness, and that certain way he grasped his weapons which caused the muscles in his forearms to ripple. She was not there to gawk as he, unused to the heat of King’s Landing, caused him to strip off his outerwear so that he was only wearing his undershirt. Maera didn’t care that the smirk he would send her as he did so made her stomach flutter; she was probably just taken aback by his audacity to do so in view of the entire training grounds.
The princess was pulled from her inner turmoil when she felt someone grasp her arm. Maera instinctively pulled her arm back but it was held in place by her captor. “Calm down, dear niece. It is just me.” Aemond whispered in her ear as he pulled her against him. “I need to speak with you about a delicate matter. Maera lessened her struggling but still stepped back as far as Aemond’s grip on her would allow. Sensing her unease, Aemond released Maera. “Aemond. If you needed to speak to me, you should have sent someone to deliver your message. We could have arranged a meeting place that was much more proper than an empty hallway. How did you even know where I was?’ She was instantly on edge. Maera had left her mother’s chambers in order to get away from her meddling family. An uncle not giving her her space was the last thing she wanted to deal with at the moment. “It was the fate of the Seven that I stumbled upon you. They knew I needed to speak with you so the Seven provided me with the means to do so.” Maera narrowed her eyes at Aemond, her patience wearing thin with every word. “I don’t believe you.” “Who are we to question the will of the Seven, dear niece?” Aemond said with a smirk. Turning away from Aemond quickly, Maera walked down the hallway until she was at the courtyard that opened up to the Godswood. Aemond was quick to follow her. When he reached her, Aemond grabbed Maera’s arm much rougher than he had before. The force of it caused her to twist and face him. Maera’s eyes were burning with fury. “I do not believe in the Seven so I will question them as much as I want. Just as I will question you. I’m not going to speak with a man who refuses to answer me.” Aemond did not respond with anger. Watching Maera was like watching a kitten lash out, unable to do any actual harm. “Maera. The walls have eyes and you can locate anyone, and find out anything as long as you know the right people to speak to. You would do well to remember this. There have been rumors swirling around about you. I don’t appreciate these rumors. A wolf has been sniffing around what is mine. Make sure that he stops.” Maera is taken aback. Never has Aemond been so bold in announcing what he truly believes his relationship with her to be. “You know not of what you speak. I am no one’s except my own.” Aemond roughly grips Maera’s chin and tilts her head back till she is looking him in the eye. “Keep telling yourself that. Mark my words, you will be my wife. The king wants nothing more than to see both sides of the family at peace. He will be quite receptive when I suggest our marriage.”
Maera and Aemond’s argument was interrupted by the sound of someone clearing their throat. Aemond releases Aemond and turns to see Cregan Stark standing a few feet away from the. “You are interrupting a private conversation. What are you doing here, Lord Stark?” Aemond spits out Cregan’s title as if it was poison. The Northern lord was not intimidated in the slightest. “I came to the Godswood to pray to the Gods as I have done every morning. King Viserys himself extended the offer to me.” Cregan eyed how close Aemond was standing to Maera. “I may not know much about southern culture, Prince Aemond, but I do not believe that putting your hands on a lady while there is no one else around is considered proper. So I need to call the guards?” Aemond sneers. His anger is ice-cold and solid behind his eye. “How dare you? You interrupt me and my niece and now you’re—“ Maera interrupts Aemond. “Uncle. Our conversation is over. You should leave.” The one-eyed prince seethes as he leans close to Maera, keeping his good eye on the Stark standing nearby. “Our conversation is not over, dear niece. I will find you later on.” Ending his sentence, Aemond stands up straight and stalks out of the Godswood. He sneers at Cregan as he passes by him.
The prince is staring down at his niece and Cregan from one of the archways overlooking the Godswood after he left the area. Maera is being comforted by the Stark. Aemond wants nothing more at that moment than to burn Cregan alive with Vhagar. Slow clapping can be heard from behind him and Aemond instantly tenses. “Well done brother. That was quite a sight to see. I’m sure our niece will be rushing into your arms the next time that she sees you.” “Leave me be Aegon. You’re drunk and lack the brains to understand what just happened.” Aemond knows that he could have acted better but Maera left him no choice. He doesn’t need his drunkard leecher of a brother to remind him yet Aegon continues to push. “I am drunk but not drunk enough to begin hallucinating. What I am seeing right now is the Stark lord with his hands on our niece, consoling her after coming to her rescue. I know I never had a chance to be betrothed to Maera after I was married to Helaena. That is why I am content to tease her when I see her. It brings me pleasure to see her blush. But you, you actually had a chance. A slim one, due to Daemon and Rhaenyra’s opinion of us, but a chance nonetheless.” Aemond is silent as Aegon actually makes sense for once. “You have no chance now. Your words and actions will surely get back to Rhaenyra. They have already driven Maera into the arms of another man.” Aegon gestures to the scene below them. He laughs and his eyes seem to dull again with a drunken haze. “I’m sure she’ll be betrothed to the man and have taken his cock before the celebrations are over. Good luck preventing that from happening.” Aegon pats Aemond’s shoulder and departs, leaving his brother to contemplate his words.
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esther-dot · 4 months
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In line with the anti-jonsa arguments, the only one I believe had some impact on me (this isn’t even in universe, it’s just in general) was that incest is inherently oppressive towards women. The one person who is not supposed to think of you like that, look at you like that - does. There is no safety for you to fall back on because even your family is not acting like family. I don’t know how this will translate with Jon and Sansa, because Sansa will expect protection as a sister and then them falling in love with each while knowing the other is their half-sibling is tilted towards Jon having more power in that dynamic as a man. Then comes in the question of Sansa’s claim to Winterfell and Jon being the heir to Robb’s will. It’s muddled up and the solution (join together in marriage) doesn’t look as appealing to considering incest here will still hurt Sansa, because of society being inherently systemically oppressive, and not save her or her claim. (This is one of the reasons why I didn’t like show KiTN Jon because whatever the fuck happened to “Winterfell belongs to my sister Sansa”. I mean there’s a lot wrong with the show after that but it particularly pissed me off lol because in canon jon would NEVER do that and is the true air raid siren canary in the coal mine for Jon’s character butching (jonerys 🙄)) Anyway, lost track there, but yeah. And on top of all of that, how is GRRM going to paint a better picture of something he’s been criticising for almost 30 years now? Still a Jonsa though, because I am a clown 🤡
(about this ask)
It’s really hard to tell which resolution Martin is working towards! On the one hand, it could be about creating a scenario in which politics / love align and resolving the Northern succession crisis gives Sansa and Jon everything they ever wanted. I love tidy storytelling, so that is very appealing to me. However, I do agree with you that that resolution isn’t without certain concerning aspects.
The other possibility is, it’s a test for Jon, just as he has continual been tempted throughout the series, only, this is the greatest one yet. His brother, friend, the heir, the KitN himself chose Jon. As a Jon fan, I love what that will mean to him. The show didn’t have the benefit of Robb’s Will, so it felt more ooc for Jon than it could be written in the books. After all, Sansa is still married to Tyrion. Also, with different factions in the books possibly supporting different Starks, it’s possible Sansa sees the greater good (she doesn’t consider her claim much after all/isn’t attached to it) and works to get everyone to support Jon as he is older, male, has Robb’s endorsement, and might play a key role in winning back Winterfell so he could be a peace candidate / the one everyone can coalesce around. I mean, that’s a little hard for me to imagine with the prejudice against bastards and what his rep will be post rez, but Martin could write it in a way that doesn’t feel like Jon taking advantage of the situation and rather, Jon doing something he feels guilty about out of necessity, with the blessing of Robb and more importantly Sansa. However, if it is a test, Jon would have to instead defend Sansa’s claim. If Jon refuses everything and then parentage reveal comes out, they could marry at a later date when the relationship can be of Sansa’s choosing, removing the disturbing implications of the political benefits for Jon/the power imbalance.
I’ve moved towards the secret wedding idea (here are posts about that 1, 2). Sansa would probably have to suggest the idea herself and persuade him giving her a lot of agency in her own fate, and it’s potentially a callback to Jace/Sara and Rhaegar/Lyanna. That could happen secretly purely because she’s already married and she wants to be married before he goes to war, or because they don’t have support for it (maybe the North does think it’s icky or is very anti Targ with the disaster of Dany’s invasion happening), or it might happen before Jon is exiled simply because Sansa wants it. I’ve said before, perhaps the best way to answer Sansa’s fears are for Jon to marry her when he can’t have Winterfell, so she knows it is her, not her claim, that he wants. In that scenario, there is nothing for Jon to gain, it is love, only love that motivates him. It’s the most romantic of the options, even if it isn’t the happiest.
Whatever the endpoint, I think there are enough variables that Martin could make any of a number of different paths work and keep them in-character for Jon as well as avoiding backtracking his criticisms simply because we will know Jon’s motivations.
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nashiriel · 4 months
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Not the original asker, but I would love more adventures with bb!luke and his dragon! I love luke being able to claim the cannibal because he tried to take his eye out, because the cannibal clearly took it a lot better than aemond. I was a bit confused tho by what rhaenys meant about being cruel or kind in not saying laenor would have given luke seasmoke? And why she knew daemon wasn’t enough? sorry if that’s a stupid question because I really liked the chapter!
Thanks so much, anon! I’m really touched that you liked the fic enough to leave this ask and that you’d like more of that verse!
Obviously the premise is inherently a bit cracky, but yes, the Cannibal definitely had a more 😍 reaction to Luke’s willingness to resort to knife crimes at the first opportunity than Aemond! Grey Ghost owes his life to the Cannibal’s utter WTF reaction when he looked down and realised that he did indeed nearly suffer GBH at the hands of a chubby-faced little moppet. But I don’t imagine Aemond will be amused when he hears Rhaenyra waxing lyrical to a raging Alicent about just how her little darling won his own massive weapon of mass destruction.
In terms of Rhaenys:
Whilst Rhaenys’ suspicions about their parentage means she has some bitterness regarding Rhaenyra’s sons, she is well aware that Laenor loved them dearly.
So her not voicing that Laenor would have obviously sent Seasmoke rather than the dangerous Cannibal could be due to kindness (“I won’t puncture the wishful thinking of a grieving child that his dead father is still watching over him and loved him enough to send him the dragon he’d wanted his whole life”) or cruelty (“I won’t acknowledge to this grieving child that my son loved him so much that he would readily have given him his own dragon if he could”).
As for Daemon, a large part of Luke’s anger in that snippet is the dual trauma of unexpectedly losing his father whilst also being expected to accept Daemon as Laenor’s replacement with absolutely zero time to properly process the loss. Whilst he might otherwise have internalised his turmoil a bit more and settled down given time, the sudden connection to the Cannibal means that his emotions have a sudden outlet in a murderous dragon who is capable of squaring up to Caraxes.
So the normally insecure and meeker six-year-old Luke is suddenly not responding well when a man he barely knew before he unexpectedly married Luke’s mother and took his father’s place is telling him to calm down and control himself, forming a very dangerous feedback loop with the Cannibal. Hence Rhaenys recognising that someone else - like an authority figure Luke already knows - very much needs to step in.
He also mentally ties Laenor’s death to the other traumatic events of that night - getting it thrown in his face that Laenor might not actually be his father by someone Luke thought a friend, having that friend nearly brain Jace with a rock and losing the friendship through knifing his eye, having Aegon who Luke might previously have looked up to calling him a bastard in a hall full of people…
To Luke’s childish, grieving mind therefore, he lost Laenor partially because he might be a bastard, and he’s already aware that people questioned his status as a Targaryen because he didn’t have a dragon. Thus there’s the subconscious, irrational, guilt that if Luke had only been able to claim the Cannibal beforehand, things would never have gone so badly wrong and Laenor would still be with them.
Which is then also feeding into the Cannibal’s behaviour. He’s already the absolute worst dragon Luke could possibly have; it is very much the potentially centuries-old massive dragon currently calling the shots in that relationship, and because he has absolutely zero experience in having a rider or being around humans in general, he essentially regards Luke as an extension of himself and reacts to any attempt to take him away or even to merely get close to Luke as he would another dragon trying to steal his kill.
And while Luke may be a little frightened and frustrated by this…not only does he finally have an unquestioned symbol of Targaryen heritage in the dragon he longed for, but it’s a dragon so big and powerful that he won’t ever have to fear him dying like Laenor. He knows in his very bones that the Cannibal would rather burn the whole island to the ground than leave him, and for an unsettled, grieving child, that’s actually a very compelling notion. So that too is influencing the Cannibal’s apparent disregard of Luke’s commands, and one can really pity poor Rhaenys for the absolute mess she’s now taking on.
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the-daily-dreamer · 1 year
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I keep seeing people in the Sara Snow tag freaking out about her and Jace. I'm sorry to Team Black stans but Jace potentially fucking a hot Stark girl in the Winterfell godwood is the only interesting thing I've heard about his character. Not to mention, his relationship with Sara could actually give him a personality! But no! She's not his cousin so they hate her. Total BS
I really hope the writers do Sara justice and make it a compelling storyline that adds depth to Jace’s character and Rhaenyra’s relationship with her presumed heir.
Firstly, I am a Stark stan through and through, and I want the Starks in this show to be adequately represented.
Secondly, Jace is a very dull character and has nothing to him. I don’t understand how black stans can look at Jace and think he’s a compelling character when half the fandom can’t even tell him apart from his younger brother. Having us care even the tiniest bit about him through a relationship will make his death actually matter. As opposed to Luc who got like five mins of forced character development so people would care.
Thirdly, and most importantly of all, the situation with Jace and Sara will challenge Rhaenyra in new and interesting ways. With Viserys gone, Rhaenyra is directly responsible for anything that goes wrong now. She no longer has her father to defend her or make sure any mistakes she or her family makes are fixed. Now, Rhaenyra will have to deal with the political implications of her son breaking his betrothal with their greatest allies. She will have to look in the mirror and see she never disciplined her children or prepared them for the responsibility they would have to bare. Rhaenyra will be met with the same insolence and trouble she used to bring as a teen.
I think Sara could be the best thing that could happen to Jace’s storyline and the team black storyline. She could add romance, drama, a strong female character, and interesting and complex conflicts between many characters. I guess that’s just what happens when Starks are included in a plot, everything gets much more interesting. The power they hold is unmatched.
And yeah. Let people ship a Jace and Sara. She could actually give him some sort of character. Because clearly incest didn’t give him anything noteworthy lol.
(And this is just an aside, but showrunners please let Jace’s actor use his real curly hair. It looks so much better than that awful wig, and his curls make him look more like his father Harwin. Please. I can’t take anymore “Criston is Jace’s father” takes. Just let him have his natural brown curls. I beg.)
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lemonhemlock · 1 year
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One thing I noticed when I was rewatching HOTD was how inconsiderate Rhaenyra can be, and how it almost always leads back to Daemon's grooming of her. Like with the whole situationship between her and Criston and how she was unintentionally inconsiderate with proposing to Criston that he'd be her paramour. It bothered me with how callous she was about it, and how easy it was for her to just forget about him and essentially treat their relationship like it was nothing.
Same thing with Harwin. She rants to Daemon about how, without him, her life has been a droll tragedy. Now granted she did say that she did love Harwin, but to a casual viewer, it would seem like she only liked him because he made her feel desired. Look how quickly she mourned for him and moved and married Daemon. It just seems like Harwin didn't mean much to her, and that he was just a substitute for the man she really wanted. The same man whose advice she should not be taking or listening to. Daemon is not someone she should be advised by because he is in no position to be giving her solid advice seeing as he's been disinherited (even though Viserys never regarded him as his heir), exiled a million times, and has no real place in this world. He's a King without a country. That's why he gets bored so quickly when he's in a domesticated setting.
hi there, forgive me for taking this long to answer, hectic couple of months :))
One thing I noticed when I was rewatching HOTD was how inconsiderate Rhaenyra can be, and how it almost always leads back to Daemon's grooming of her. Like with the whole situationship between her and Criston and how she was unintentionally inconsiderate with proposing to Criston that he'd be her paramour. It bothered me with how callous she was about it, and how easy it was for her to just forget about him and essentially treat their relationship like it was nothing.
you know, i generally found rhaenyra a rude person and was kind of surprised that no one picked up on this. she is so rude at storm's end, too.
Same thing with Harwin. She rants to Daemon about how, without him, her life has been a droll tragedy. Now granted she did say that she did love Harwin, but to a casual viewer, it would seem like she only liked him because he made her feel desired. Look how quickly she mourned for him and moved and married Daemon. It just seems like Harwin didn't mean much to her, and that he was just a substitute for the man she really wanted.
yeah, honestly, not a good look for her. she is not really shown to mourn harwin in any significant way. jace is more upset than she is. not to excessively dunk on her here, but i feel like most of the blame for this comes from the time-jumps. the rhaewin relationship positively looks like a footnote; they really could have used more interaction.
The same man whose advice she should not be taking or listening to. Daemon is not someone she should be advised by because he is in no position to be giving her solid advice seeing as he's been disinherited (even though Viserys never regarded him as his heir), exiled a million times, and has no real place in this world. He's a King without a country. That's why he gets bored so quickly when he's in a domesticated setting.
preach! daemon can wield a sword and fly a dragon, but he really comes across as politically-incompetent. he spends his entire life creating chaos around him and alienating potential allies.
awesomefan asked: People think he wouldn't have gotten bored with Rhaenyra like he did with Laena when it's like no he would have gotten bored with her too. When Rhaenyra was young it was all about the chase, the forbidden fruit, pissing Viserys off, and temptation. Now that he has her and she was the one doing the chasing (cause of his grooming) the thrill is gone. Especially seeing as they did absolutely nothing for 6 years but sit their asses on Dragonstone making up for lost time. It would have eventually bored him and he would've needed something to do. This is why he seems so "alive" or "out of character" when the war starts because he finally has something he can do. Something that he's good at. It's why at the end of the story he not only cheats on Rhaenyra with Nettles, but he also abandons her, Aegon, Baela, and Rhaena all so he could go out in a blaze of glory against Aemond. He refused to return to Rhaenyra (who's lost her mind at this point) and be her solider/consort because that's not who he is. He wants to fight and go out like a warrior. He wants to bring glory back to the House of the Dragon, and he can't do that by going back to Rhaenyra. It's also why he cheats on her with Nettles because she's special. She is a girl of non-Valyrian descent that was able to claim a wild dragon just by using her brain and the ways of the old shepherds of Valyria. She intrigues him and challenges his ideology of Valyrian supremacy and Targaryen exceptionalism. Overall, Daemyra fangirls needed to stop romanticizing their relationship thinking that their story has a happy ending and that he died for his Queen. Everything that Daemon has done has been for himself, and as we've seen, Rhaenyra is not the exception to his selfish, violent, abusive actions.
i agree with most of this, but to be perfectly honest, there's something about daemon's riverlands storyline that bugs me. we criticize aemond for doing fuck-all to advance the war effort, but daemon also doesn't really do much in that regard either? what great military accomplishments does he have to show for other than.... landing his dragon in harrenhal at the beginning of the dance?
again, to my mind, this feels like the author didn't really know what to do with these characters past this point without complicating the overall war too much, so just decided that the solution is to have them circling each other each other in the riverlands for god-knows-how-long. the consequence of this is that they both seem to acquire chicken brains, but i wouldn't assign them too much blame for what looks like authorial fault and a good old fashioned plot hole
also unrelated but wanted to let you know that i love your profile picture! who is it?
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thaliajoy-blog · 5 months
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Best Targ Women ! Needed to make my ranking for some reason.
1) Daenerys Targaryen (best girl ever may she live and prosper). She's every goddess ever.
2) Rhaena Targaryen (black bride) : iconic reserved lesbian who goes out of her mind sometimes in really impressive ways. Compares herself to the woman who ruined her life. Has tons of girlfriends (goals). Dies probably sad, almost alone. Hates most of her family anyways.
3) Rhaenyra Targaryen : So perfect in her imperfections. Loving mother, unquestionable heir to the Iron Throne, privileges gone to her head, political disaster in many aspects. Hate her, love her, she can't really leave you indifferent.
4) Aerea Targaryen : first female Targ heir, absolute teenage chaos on two foot intent on making the world a hell for those she disliked. Is living under the name of her twin sister (who lives under hers), which identity wise must be real weird for a kid. Horrifying death that will give you nightmares.
5) Elaena Targaryen : I need to know everything about her life it's criminal we don't. But she was the boss & controlled the economy. She was hot at 70.
6) Daena Targaryen : I need to know everything about her life like seriously (2). Rebellion ! Her brazen legacy haunted house Targaryen forever. Still does.
7) Alysanne Targaryen : She's not perfect, but she did a hell of a lot for Westeros and women, and stood by her principles (equality for women in matters of inheritance and education).
8) Naerys Targaryen : She just has something special. A magnificent aura of doom & religion.
9) Visenya Targaryen : love hate relationship with Visenya. She's so interesting but also she wrecked the life of my best girl Rhaena & raised her son to be a psycho tyrant misogynist (which is a great part of why she's interesting cause like WTF girl).
10) Rhaena of Pentos : cute cute cute girl. Has a pink dragon she probably named either by watching the sun rises or to make a clever metaphor (it is a clever metaphor !). Has a sense of duty. Is the opposite of her brazen twin Baela. Last dragonrider till Daenerys.
Plus, Targaryen women with potential (but not much action/info on them) :
- Aelora Targaryen whose story just begs to be told in full. Cause like, accidentelly killing your brother ? Being heir to the Iron throne afterwards anyway ? Damn.
- Jaehaera Targaryen, as the neurodivergent and ironically female heir of the famously misogynistic faction of the Dance of Dragons. Like come on.
- Baela Targaryen : Okay we do know about her and her character I just couldn't fit her in the top ; I'm mainly interested in the hypothetical/headcanon dilemna she could have had in the Velaryon succession matter. Mainly between being legally the heir to Driftmark & by it possibly independant (which suits her character), and her betrothal & fondness towards Jace (and future as queen consort). Along that of course, thoughts over women's rights & bastards' place.
- Rhaella Targaryen (sister to Aerea) cause like inside on the faith + similar identity crisis worthy situation. Like technically the legitimate heir to the throne during Jaehaerys' reign.
- Daenys the Dreamer : like OF COURSE. I have headcanons. Of course I want to know more about her prophecies & her character. Or make it all up if I can't have it.
- Shiera Seastar ; I mean we don't actually know that much about the lady. She was witchy and liked by Bloodraven. Then what ? Then what. She was maybe the Westerosi Elizabeth Báthory. Then what.
- Daenerys of Dorne : really want to know what her time in Dorne was like. After all, her marriage was of historical proportions and she's implied to have had some good notions in ruling. Also how did she feel about the Blackfyre rebellion ?
- Helaena Targaryen : I do like making up headcanon about her lately. Gentle, spineless, lonely, crazy, crazed for life but kept inside a cage. Betrayed her sister, under difficult circumstances. But where they ever sisters in any real sense ?
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unusual-raccoon · 11 months
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okay, so! the idea i said i needed to run by you? i spent hours doing these edits to explain it better adsgsjd
so i was thinking about modern abo jaceluke (it doesn't have to be tied to any of the aus we've talked about, but it surely can fit somewhere there!) and I thought "to what means would rhaenyra go to stop jacaerys and lucerys' relationship?"
and then i thought that pretty much like in canon, the one to see rhaenyra despairing over something and take a rash decision and fuck it even worse would be daemon. so daemon sees rhaenyra arguing with jaacerys constantly about lucerys and decides to step in. he contacts lady misery, a past lover and the chief redactor of the most notorious gossip twitter and instagram diary, silk diaries, and asks her to post the compromising pictures she must have of jacaerys from his many escapades to the north and make it look like it's happening as of now. for a price, lady misery complies and releases the pictures from a year ago and makes it look like it's happening right now.
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jace, who didn't even tell cregan about his drunken make out session with his sister doesn't have any proof to defend himself, and knows his relationship with lucerys is in real danger. that's probably why he sounds so desperate to contact lucerys, because he knows his younger brother is really insecure and that he's been fed lies about jace's hookups by their parents and aemond (who wants to see them break up so bad). it doesn't help the fact that jace knows lucerys knows how many people jace has fucked over the years and that it can probably make sense in lucerys' mind.
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lucerys knows his brother and deep in his heart knows that he wouldn't hurt him like that, so jace has to be telling the truth. however, because he's still insecure and hurt, and because lucerys is a little, revengeful shit, and cannot cope with jacaerys thinking he's a child, he hits right where it hurts jace the most ;)
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jace comes home the next day and they have angry sex. like, super angry sex. because lucerys is angry at jace for sleeping with girls before him (*rolls eyes*) and jace is so fucking mad lucerys made him fucking grovel and sound "pathetic" over text and cannot stand the idea of lucerys running to aemond (like, that makes him rabid). so they fuck like beasts for hours and hours, break the bed and probably end up with lucerys knocked up 🫢 this all came because i wanted to picture them having hate sex/angry sex without them actually hating each other...
My brilliant talented baby!!!
These edits are insanely well done 🤩. I am in awe. It’s such a great story telling medium.
It’s so funny you went with the supposed cheating angle, because as I was thinking of the modern AU featuring the twins, I had the same thought, wondering what pushed Luke into Aemond’s arms and away from Jace. My mind, much like yours, landed on suspected/fabricated cheating.
Their texts are exactly the kind of argument I’d imagine they would have, particularly with Jace being so desperate to know Luke is okay. Only for the utter heartbreak of seeing him flaunting about with Aemond to sink in like a knife to the heart.
Much like you I think Jace would be rabid upon his return. I think Luke might play really hard to get, might even put up some protests, physically or otherwise.
(Potentially even bordering on some super undernegotiated CNC 🫣)
They’re a mess of bite marks and tears and torn skin and bloodied nails when the deed is done, and Lucerys had made a mantra of the words “I hate you”, yet as they lay on the aftermath (not afterglow - it looks like a fucking crime scene) he mutters, “I hate you…for leaving me.”
Jace, the king of aftercare, would leave once more, albeit briefly, to gather supplies to clean them both up. As he’s wiping Luke down with a warm, damp rag, he’d murmur, “So do I, baby.”
Luke hates the idea of them being on poor terms though, he literally cries over it and Jace hushes him with numerous, tender kisses.
“I know you’d never cheat, I know it,” Luke would babble, clinging to his brother’s shoulders.
“It’s just seeing those pictures, J, it was like something came over me-“
His brother kisses him again, softer, smiling. Grazes the back of his knuckles against the bruised state of his brother’s hips.
“I know the feeling.”
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thelostgirl21 · 10 months
Text
You know, one very pervert effects of queer baiting, I'm discovering, is that the queer community has been so used to look for any hint at maybe romance they can find, to satisfy their own 100% healthy need to connect with romantic partnerships in fiction, that when two same gender characters share profound bonds of love, emotional and physical intimacy (perhaps even have the occasional sex together), seek companionship, enjoy going on adventures together, would probably be willing to freaking die for each other, etc.
Well, when the show or people on the show attempt to say "no, this is a friendship", the reaction is to go "who are you trying to fool? This is obviously romance! No people that are 'just friends' would behave in such a way!"
Meanwhile, demisexual me, that can't sexually desire anyone unless I share deep bonds of trust and emotional intimacy with them (but not necessarily have any romantic desires for them), and thus has had a habit of more often seeking sexual intimacy with people I wasn't romantically attracted to (because it can sometime take a while for me to develop the kind of emotional connection I need with a romantic interest to find them sexually desirable as well)...
AND who has a very easy time "turning herself off" someone (in terms of sexual desires) when that sexual attraction isn't reciprocated...
Knows that romance and friendships aren't as clear cut, or black and white, as people often appear to believe them to be.
Society will teach you stuff like "sexual/physical desires occur as a result of 'falling in love' or 'finding someone sexually appealing'..."
They don't teach you "you can have no romantic desires for someone, yet feel so emotionally close to them you'll have a seemingly irresistible need to fuck them!"
They don't say "you can yearn for romantic love with a person, yet experience no need to sexually connect with them until you can trust them as much as you do your friends".
They don't tell you "you will meet friends, in your life, that may of may not return your sexual desires (should you have them), that you'll have absolutely no remote interest to have them as boyfriend/girlfriend, that you'll nevertheless want to share a part of your soul with, make a lifelong connection, be fiercely loyal and devoted to each other, perhaps even move in together for a time at some point, consider them your found family, share specific interests in common that will feel like something that exclusively belongs to you two, and whose rejection would make you feel like they were tearing your very soul apart and near kill you!"
If you want one absolutely gorgeous example of a strong platonic emotional connection (that used to involve a one-sided potentially non-platonic attraction), Jace and Alec, from Shadowhunters, are a gorgeous example of that.
My friendships are typically fierce, deep, epic, heart-shattering and world-ending!
I've been known to endlessly agonize (my boyfriend was getting worried, because I could barely sleep, had little to no appetite, and often look like I was physically in pain) over a best friend that I'd always been extremely close to (but never felt sexually attracted to), who had started to emotionally distance herself from me, and treat some of the personally traits she'd always claimed to find "charming" and "refreshing" about me as suddenly "annoying", after she met her girlfriend (that would eventually become her wife).
*Spoilers alert* We eventually talked things through, and reconciled, although the exact nature of our relationship did indeed need to evolve and change a bit to adapt...
And Jaskier is talking about the fact that he loves Geralt platonically *NOW*.
According to Joey Batey, Jaskier is sapioromantic. Technically this would mean that he would be a gray-romantic, and seldom experience any desire to form a romantic connection with people.
He can desire them sexually, can immediately "fall in love with them" and start following them around like an adoring, excited puppy dog (I think that's definitely what happened with Geralt).
He might want to share his mind, his thoughts, and strongly emotionally bond with them.
He might year for human connections that bring him a sense of thrill and adventure, that inspire his creativity, and might entice him to enter a form of companionship with them.
But not necessarily share a romance with them.
And sadly, while I believe that Geralt's own affections for Jaskier were genuine, the way he experienced them appeared a bit different (and hindered by his own trauma) - possibly because of his awareness that having Jaskier following him around put him at risk.
But then, the moment Jaskier started singing about Geralt, people took notice and started targeting Jaskier to get to him.
After what happened with Rience, I think Geralt realized that there was no going back for them.
The best way to protect Jaskier is to fully let him in, and treat the bond they share together with value and respect - keep him close to himself and his family.
I'm pretty sure that whenever Jaskier is being asked to watch over Ciri, both Geralt and Yennefer are doing so because they feel better knowing that Ciri is there to keep him safe, too.
At least when Jaskier is with Ciri, then he's not running off to who knows where getting himself into trouble!
And if trouble does come to find them, then they'll have each other.
As Ciri's uncle, Jaskier can troll Ciri's parental figures (Yennefer and Geralt) with her, playfully mock their flaws, side with her against them on certain issues, and openly tease them (how are Geralt's smiling lessons going?).
At times, he can also argue her parents' side with her (ex: when the daughter is frustrated of being kept out of certain situations, or told she's not ready for something yet).
And she's more likely to listen to him. Because those aren't his rules, he often takes her side, and he may openly acknowledge that he finds those rules extremely frustrating, too!
Therefore, she can listen to him without feeling like she's got to assert her own independence from them.
Jaskier has the advantage of being able to support Geralt and Yennefer's decisions, while looking like he's doing so entirely on the belief they they are sound, based on his own external assessment of a situation.
Not because Geralt or Yennefer have any authority over him, and he's forced to agree.
Jaskier may not be able to fight and physically protect Ciri (hence, the forcefield).
But he can offer significant protection by reducing the risks of Ciri doing something brash and impulsive, now and in the future, by simply being there with her and for her.
And Ciri's own needs - as a highly trained warrior - to make sure that Jaskier is safe, will make it easier for her to accept that she's got to stay put with him, at times she'd rather follow Geralt and Yennefer into action, too.
Geralt own encouragement of Jaskier and Ciri developing their own familial bond together would not be happening if Geralt didn't consider Jaskier family, and wasn't deeply attached to him.
Platonic or not, that level of attachment, love, and trust matters, and becomes a part of yourself.
Jaskier didn't let Prince Radovid inside the cottage - where Ciri slept - and he didn't tell him why he couldn't let him in, either.
His romantic interest in Radovid is new. It is a growing attraction and affection that is still in its infancy, and he's still unsure of just how far Radovid is to be trusted.
That relationship is not meant to replace, nor take away anything, from what he and Geralt share and have shared.
And if Radovid is, indeed, to love him, then he'll need to accept that Jaskier doesn't exist in a vacuum and that his heart is big enough for a group of people.
Like Radovid said, Jaskier doesn't just see people, he sees the best in them...
And he falls in love with what he sees in them...
Jaskier loves a lot!
Some people, upon becoming romantically interested in someone, will suddenly shift their focus towards them, and seek to isolate themselves with their prospective romantic mate for a while (like what happened with my friend when she got her girlfriend, and what was happening with Geralt each time Yennefer showed up)!
Whereas when I become romantically involved with someone, my instinct is not to put the emotionally intimate friendships I have aside in favor of romance.
My instinct is to share that romance with my friends, try to include my romantic partner within that tight knit group of people, and give everyone a chance to get to know each other.
I don't put friendships aside for romance. That's not how my heart works. What I share with each friend is unique, can't be replaced, and each loss is experienced as viscerally as that of a romantic partner.
Am I saying those things to you because I believe that those of you that are adamant that Geraskier was played out on screen as a romance are wrong?
ABSOLUTELY NOT.
Quite the opposite.
What I'm saying, is that what queer baiting has viciously stolen from us the ability to fully enjoy and explore the full range and complexities of human friendships.
I'm decrying and condemning a practice, that has literally conditioned us to see non-romantic sexual attraction, platonic love and companionship (that yes, can 100% transcend romance), and all their nuances, specificall as "romance"; given that's usually the only "romance" we'll be allowed to get!
Because the type of friendship I'm describing has been over-represented in literature, TV, movies, musicals, and video games between same gender characters.
In a world where same gender romances are viewed negatively, we've been forced to accept "deeply intimate platonic relationships" as the only substitute being offered to us to open the joy of watching an openly acknowledged queer romance on screen (that doesn't end in tragedy)
We've been forced to learn to "read between the lines" to identify the signs that there may be "something more", and make those romances real in our imagination.
Each time I see people go "making that relationship queer would send the horrible, negative, and terrible message that all close friends of the same gender are romantically attracted to each other! That men being close friends is gay!"
I don't know whether to laugh or to cry!
It's the complete opposite!
If, the only way you are allowed to communicate gay intent with a queer audience, is by showing two "close friends" sharing together an emotionally and physically intimate connection of "non specified nature" to replace romance, then EVERY CLOSE, INTIMATE FRIENDSHIP AUTOMATICALLY BECOMES GAY!!!
How are we supposed to tell the difference between "strong platonic love and companionship" and "strong romantic love and companionship" when you refuse to give an answer, or you give us an answers, while continuing to crank up on the romantically intimate elements while HOPING to keep us hooked on the POSSIBILITY of the romance, to avoid losing viewers?!
Canonically, same gender friendships on TV go from being casual friends, to friends that regularly eye fuck each other, share their most intimate thoughts and feelings together, couldn't live without each other, and rub chamomile onto their best friend's lovely bottom while helping them bathe naked.
Whereas canonical friendships between men an women on TV go from casual friends, to deeply emotionally and physically intimate bonds if the friendship is between a woman and a gay man (to remove any chance of them developing romantic and/or sexual feelings towards each other, that would "muddy" the friendship and "ruin its chances of success"), to possibly a brotherly/sisterly bond at times, when one of them has found themselves a romantic partner and, thus, isn't available as a love interest.
Most of the time, though, one of them might be secretly "pinning" and "in love" with their best friend, and "secretly suffering" that the other person is comfortable with them being so emotionally close together without being "in love" with them, too!
Straight relationship drama will teach us that sneezing in your best friend's direction means you are romantically/sexually attracted to them, for frak's sake!!!
Let us try an exercise, just for fun.
Let us replace Jaskier with Yennefer.
Imagine that the first time she met him, she was immediately smitten at the sight of him, and offered to follow Geralt to the end of the world on his adventures!
Imagine that despite his efforts to tell her off - even after he punched her in the guts - she kept insisting, and Geralt started really warming up to her.
Imagine that she decided that she wanted him to accompany him to a ball for protection, because highborn wives were upset that she kept sleeping with their own husbands, brothers, and sons.
Imagine that, when she spoke about her being Geralt's best friend in the whole wide world, Geralt answered "We're not friends", and Yennefer answered "Oh, really? You usually just let strangers rub chamomile onto your lovely bottom?".
Imagine that Geralt's response to that was simply to ask "How many of these ladies want to kill you?", thus acknowledging he'd been busted.
How many straight people out there, do you think, would find themselves reading their deep, canonical, platonic connection and comfort with being so physically intimate with each other as a "friendship without any romantic element", do you think?
How many would openly argue that we just want to make everything about romance, and send the message that best male and female friends can't just rub chamomile onto each other's butts without any intent or attraction!
Oh, they can, I'll tell you that!
I've been blessed with becoming friends with wonderful non-toxic 100% straight male specimen that I would gladly trust to shoot artistic nudes of my body without feeling objectified by them, that I feel absolutely comfortable snuggling up to on a couch while watching a movie, and that are extremely good at respecting my personal boundaries and the friendship I have to offer them.
As someone who is pan, I have never treated any of my friendships with men, women, or any other gender identities differently.
I've never had that sense of "I feel safer being more intimate with my women friends than I do my men friends, because they don't risk misinterpreting my desires to be physically and emotionally close to them as a romantic or sexual interest instead."
However, have men ever tried to convinced me that I "couldn't possibly just want them as friends" when I was so comfortable being emotionally and physically (hugs, holding hands, playing in one's hair, caressing one's arms, leaning your head on one's shoulder while watching TV, etc.) close with them?
Absolutely!
For some, those were clear signs, or ways to express, romantic/sexual attraction, and there were no other ways to read them.
Needless to say, I did not keep those men as friends.
Well, I kept those that found it a bit "weird" and unusual, sure, but were nevertheless able to believe me, respect my boundaries, and adapt to the fact that this is who I am.
I'm unable to conceive why relationships dynamics should change depending on the gender we're with.
I also kept around any man that admitted that they had a bit of a crush on me, and that any physically intimate contact between us would just reinforce their romantic desires.
I have wonderful friends that are touch adverse, too, and our relationship is based on emotional and intellectual intimacy without any hugs or physical contact.
They are extremely dear to me, and just as valuable to my eyes as any other friendships I have, too.
But that's the whole point. There are no actual strict rules regarding the actual boundaries of all the different types of love you might experience for others people
The only thing that matters is the ability for all adults involved to offer consent, and being dedicated to your platonic, romantic, and/or sexual partner(s) emotional and physical well-being and safety as well.
If you can't separate romance from sex, or even physical intimacy, that's okay.
We'll find the right balance between our respective needs and what we can offer each other.
But society tends to present stereotyped models of men and women friendships, where as soon as they reach a certain level of emotional and physical intimacy together, then they automatically realize that "OMG!!! We were romantically in love all along without realizing it!!!" Even worse, when they are "friends with benefits!"
In fiction, "friends with benefits" relationships are usually nothing but a romantic relationship between two people unable to acknowledge their true romantic desires for each other.
They will inevitably become jealous the moment that their friend with benefits finds themselves a romantic partner (that is often totally wrong for them! Allowing the "friend with benefits" to "swoop in to save the day and show that they are perfect for each other!"), and there's this looming threat of them no longer continuing to be able to sleep together on the horizon.
Of course, there's a risk that a friend you're sleeping with might become jealous when you enter a romantic relationship!
If the whole physically intimate dimension of your friendship has been built on your sexual activities, and you haven't taken the time to invest in other platonic forms of physical contact, to make sure that the "loss of sex" won't feel like you are removing anything important from the emotional bond you two share, of course your friend will struggle! DUH!
And if you used to see each other twice a week, and now keep on cancelling your plans you'd normally make with them, to go on dates with your "new and shiny romantic interest" - acting as if the time you were devoting to them was just a "poor substitute" for a romance - of course you'll make them suffer!
If you are having sex with a friend that you love with all your heart and soul, and wish to remain bonded to them in a platonic manner after you've found someone that you're romantically attracted to, make sure that you're able to fully commit to that friendship...
Because being friends with benefits is indeed complex, requires very high levels of communication, compersion, honesty, emotional support, flexibility, and above all trust.
I've been friends with benefits with people I loved in a non-romantic way not because I was afraid of commitment, but because I'm able to fully commit to my friendships and treat them with the same care, respect, and consideration as I would a romantic partners.
And those relationships do work.
Hence why I'm hoping that, should Jaskier become romantically involved with Radovid, and discover that he loses any interest for being sexually active with other people while romantically attached to someone, he and Vespula will still be occasoinally seen spending time being emotionally and physically close with each other (or that they'll at least mention something hinting that they do).
That she'll remain a close friend. That he'll still go knock on her door in the evening while in town just to lounge around, play her songs, and share thoughts.
It's been made rather clear that she does "mean something to him".
He may not be romantically attracted to her, but it's been made rather clear that he cares about her enough to regularly return to her (and perhaps even live with her for certain periods of time).
She spoke about having had some "fun on the side", too, implying that they might be each other's "main sexual pairing", at the very least.
The idea of Jaskier being dishonest with her - of him trying to manipulate her into believing that she means more to him that the other people he's slept with while he was traveling away from her - really doesn't sit well with me, at all.
I don't think Jaskier is someone that likes to play with people's feelings.
And he wouldn't have been discussing Radovid with her if he didn't value her input, either...
He might have been in denial regarding him having a "crush" on Radovid, in part because romantic desire doesn't come to him easy and his own fears of what him being attracted to him might mean...
But he was trusting her to listen and give him some feedback on his thoughts...
Jealously comes from fearing loss...
If Jaskier abandons Vespula because he's found Radovid, then her fears of being replaced will have turned out to be entirely justified...
So, whatever happens, I hope he does right by her.
Another aspect that I find interesting about the aspect of Jaskier's sapioromantism (i.e. of him only being capable of experiencing a need for sharing a romantic connection with people whose intellect he's attracted to), is that there are different types of intelligence.
I've a feeling that Jaskier's own "brain type" is people that are displaying high levels of emotional and relational intelligence, most of all!
Because Radovid oozes emotional and relational insightfulness...
Whereas Geralt is brilliant... But he is a bit of emotionally stunted goat.
So, he may not be romantically appealing to Jaskier; but I bet his bloated biceps that, in term of "love and devotion", he's likely one of the, if not the, most important person in Jaskier's life.
So I'm sincerely not explaining all of this to you to tell you that you are delusional about Jaskier loving Geralt romantically, and that everything you've read and interpreted as being romantic between them since the beginning is incorrect, far from it!
But I'm heartbroken, and somewhat angry, that queer baiting - combined with a lack of appropriate representation of deep, platonic, physically intimate friendships between two sexually compatible men and women - has created such a reality where Geraskier not being canon will make some of the fans of that ship feel like we are sending them the message that they've been reading those signals wrong yet again.
That there's something wrong with them for being unable to read those signals as being platonic between two men anymore.
No. We carefully taught you and continuously trained you to read those signals as being romantic, to maintain you as a captivated audience on various TV shows, while making sure to avoid angering people that see the world of romance and friendship as a rigid heterosexual black and white structure.
Can Geraskier be read as platonic?
My own personal interpretation made with my own set of biases and filters?
In the context of someone that Joey Batey mentioned experiences sapioromantic panromantic attraction, and pansexual attraction?
I would be inclined to think that Jaskier fell in love (without romantic desires), and was possibly sexually attracted to him the very second his eyes fell on Geralt.
He felt a strong emotional pull that made him want to get to know him more in depth emotionally and intellectually, share his adventures, and become involved in his life.
He saw the person Geralt truly was behind all of his own pain, abandonment/attachment issues, and trauma, and genuinely felt a deep empathetic connection towards him.
He loved that wounded Witcher so much, and his own unhappiness touched him so deeply, that he tried to change the way that the world saw him.
He sang songs that painted him as a hero rather than a butcher. He provided him with opportunities to be loved and admired by people, and well compensated for his services.
He felt Geralt's need to be loved and wanted ("Maybe someone out there will want you"), and tried to help him heal his own broken heart.
But Jaskier partially* put aside his own needs in doing so, pushed and tried too hard, kept waiting for Geralt to finally recognize that denying himself from what he truly wanted and needed in his life - companionship, a family, people that wanted him - was only slowly eating away at his humanity...
...and he got badly burned for his efforts. *Im saying "partially", because when we met Jaskier, he was being booed and thrown food at... So, I think he was also rather familiar with the feeling of being unwanted and rejected by people, and they were two misplaced souls that didn't really fit anywhere that found each other...
It's the "Butcher" - the uncaring, unfeeling, emotionally disconnected false persona that Geralt has been so set on holding onto - that Jaskier wished Geralt would have finally been able to let go of, and burn to the ground!
I tend to hear "Burn Butcher Burn" not as a "scorned lover song", per say but as a last desperate loving cry for Geralt to let "the Butcher" in him burn!
I think that any sexual attraction that Jaskier might have felt towards Geralt upon meeting him would have eventually fizzled away when he realized that Geralt himself wasn't in a good enough emotional and physical place to be interested in being sexually intimate with him (and/or was possibly straight).
But I doubt it would have changed a lot to his feelings or level of attachment towards him, because Jaskier's always loved Geralt, and sought to emotionally connect with him, way more than he ever sexually wanted him.
And I believe that, while he was able to forgive him for his harsh worlds ("I forgive you for your foolish words and deeds. Your lack of faith and hope. Your obstinacy. Doggedness. For your sulking and posing, which are unworthy of a man."), in order for Jaskier to be romantically attracted to him, Geralt would need to demonstrate a heavier dose of emotional intelligence and insightfulness than he's been able to openly demonstrate him thus far.
And, in order to be sexually attracted to him, Jaskier would need Geralt to be the one showing him some interest first.
The love, loyalty, and attachment is still there, though, bright as ever, and filled with more hope for Geralt than Jaskier used to have for him, I think.
And I think that Jaskier has very strong levels of compersion for Geralt and Yennefer, and is finding genuine happiness in seeing them share a healthy romantic and sexual relationship together, too.
But, I'm basing that analysis on what's been revealed about Jaskier now, not what we knew about the character back then.
You can make it work, and interpret what we've been shown thus far of Geraskier with little efforts, when your own way of of experiencing friendships and romance doesn't really fit the usual social models, but you really shouldn't have to do that.
It's easy for me to move forward, embracing Radskier as my main romantic ship for Jaskier, and Geraskier as my favorite platonic now more "brotherly" (but still occasionally romantic) one for him, but I fully expect some Geraskier fans to mourn, feel like they've been tricked and invalidated by the narrative, and have a hard time accepting that "two men showing so much love and physical intimacy together were meant to be platonic".
In real life? Yes. Two men showing so much love and physical intimacy together can be 100% platonic.
In fiction? We may not quite have reached the point where it isn't problematic yet.
Because when we look on the side of tradition men/women pairings?
Dana Scully and Fox Mulder (X-Files) became canon once fans became so invested in them they weren't willing to accept "anything less".
Buffy Summers and Spike, of all people, eventually got together, when he's a character that should have been killed off after two appearance,s because people like the character so much, and fans shipped the pairing so hard (just to be clear, I have nothing against the pairing)!
And then, there's Stiles and Lydia...
Where's the outcry saying that it "lessens" platonic men/women relationships, by suggesting that two emotionally close people can't just remain friends?
People just had to shout "Stydia is endgame! Stydia is endgame! Stydia is endgame! OMG! They are SO in love!!!", and TADAH! They got together before the end of the last Season!
Hetero ships that people get highly invested in do tend to become canon.
Gay ships?! *GASP! You know, two men or women together can be FRIENDS! They don't have to be GAY!"
No shit, Sherlock!
So why can't a boy and a girl, that have an insane amount of chemistry, and share tons of emotional intimacy together, avoid any romantic attraction?!
And I don't ever recall Stiles having ever bathed Lydia, nor rubbed chamomile onto her lovely bottom, alright?!
Why do they need to become a couple, and send the message that the deep love they share couldn't be strong enough if they'd remained platonic?
(I'm not telling Stydia fans that their ship is wrong or that they shouldn't bask in the happiness that the ship becoming canon brought them. Just pointing out how hetero and gay ships tend to be argued differently.)
But gay ships?!
Nah! No homo, bro/sis! Must have close same gender friendships representation!
So yeah, it's not that it's unrealistic for Geraskier to be platonic that frustrates me, but that sense of how we teach heterosexuals and queer fans to read scenes and relation dynamics differently.
Yes, I will enjoy that absolute gift of a queer romance that Joey Batey worked so hard for us to get with Radskier!
But, I still felt the need to speak out, and tell Geraskier fans that might still be feeling betrayed, or in disbelief that they called Geralt and Jaskier "platonic" that "I get it". That their feelings, disappointment, sense of betrayal, and hurt are valid, and that they have the right to mourn and struggle with accepting what was offered them (Radskier) instead.
You weren't reading romantic elements where there was none.
Had Geraskier been a romantically/sexually compatible man/woman "platonic friendship", they'd been "endgame". I'm pretty sure of it.
They'd even have been allowed to use "videogame logic" that says that Geralt can also end up with Triss, or any other partner besides Yennefer. They'd made it work!
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b-rainlet · 1 year
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Aegon would initially encourage Helaemond affair but then silently seethe in jealousy because he cannot believe Aemond does a better job at being a better lover (ffs, not in this too). Unironically, Helaemond would improve Helaegon relationship simply because Aegon would start a competition (solely existing in his head) of who can make Helaena cum more and harden which would indirectly bring Aegon and Helaena closer. And although I love an OT3 ending, Aegon would never want to share Helaena - he would be okay with extramarital sex, but Helaena loving Aemond more or even on the same level as him would never not trigger “omg mommy pls love ME” reflex in him. So he will taunt Aemond with their sister’s pussy but always remind him that she can never be truly Aemond’s. Ofc Helaena’s pussy is too addictive so he accepts and suffers in silence :) and Helaena is just a happy little bug in the middle getting extra dick every night :) :) :) Everyone suffers but her (as it should be)
This is so spot on, it may as well be what we would get if they made Helaegon vs. Helaemond canon lmao.
(This is gonna be looong so my rambles under the cut:)
Aegon absolutely cannot stand not being the center of attention and if he won't get any relief from his sexual obsession with his mother, then his sister has to be the next best thing.
At first it's like 'Why should I spent any time with Helaena, courting her or whatever, we're gonna marry anyway.' because Helaena was supposed to be his from the start so why even bother? Aegon is so used to Helaena being his mother's gift to him, he definitely takes her for granted. And there's no jealousy anywhere because nobody wants to associate with Helaena!
She's weird and she's a bit creepy with her bugs and her prophecies and any noble who ever was bewitched by her gentle nature and entertained the thought of courting her would've had second thoughts the moment Helaena would use a walk in the garden to start climbing into the bushes or digging in the dirt.
(I think Helaena would be very aware of how she's supposed to act in company of others but since Otto only ever really came back into the picture when the kids were already 10-14 and Viserys didn't really care, the greens most likely had some freedom in regards to behaving like total weirdos.
I don't know how much sense that makes since Alicent is all about duty and sacrifice but the first time we saw Aegon getting scolded it's by Otto, so I am personally believing that Alicent let her kids get away with a lot. And that aside from Aemond, both Aegon and Helaena used that to just. Be the weirdos they are.
Until Otto came along of course and started grooming Helaena to behave like a proper lady of the court).
And that's 100% the only reason Aegon (and Aemond) haven't been in any fights over Helaena's 'virtue'. If Helaena would've been more like Alicent or Sansa or Margaery, there would've been a bigger line up of people looking for the princesses favour - potentially even after Alicent announced her children's betrothal because betrothed isn't married yet and a Targaryen princess bonded to a Dragon? Always a big plus.
(There probably have been suitors - I can't believe the Lannisters wouldn't have tried - but as opposed to GoT, HotD feels...smaller? Like, I don't see any other kids at court aside from Aemond, Aegon and Helaena and that absolutely cannot be, but I guess they wanted the show to be more of a family drama. But maybe the books mention that there was no other potential suitor for Helaena and idk that because I haven't read the books, who knows).
I mean, the moment Jace dances with Helaena (which he btw only does to spite Aegon, I don't know why people seem to think he did it to make Helaena happy? He doesn't really care about her, they didn't even seem to have any kind of relationship - positive or negative - as kids, so why would his motivation lie with her and not with the Uncle he used to obviously be fond of and who now keeps belittling him in front of his betrothed) Aegon looks stunned. Like he never thought of the possibility of another man even looking at Helaena twice.
I mean, why should he? Helaena is his by all means and her being unfaithful? Will never happen. She was raised by Alicent after all and all of them now that the things Aegon does and the freedom he has hinge solely on the fact that he's a man.
Aegon and Aemond even share a look like 'Are you seeing this? Are we collectively hallucinating? What is going on??'
And to just think about this scene a little more and view it through a shippy lense: Aemond is probably also stunned and even more angry because there he is, the second son, the younger brother, the one who is so used to wanting yet never receiving unless he takes things by force - and pays for it in blood - there he is, resigning himself to a life without Helaena at his side because she was born not for him, but for his brother, swearing to himself to protect them both as best as he can (and their children) because that's the only way he can show love to either of them without it being inappropriate and what does Jace do?
The bastard who's waiting for his turn to sit the throne once again takes something he isn't privy to, yet feels entitled to possess, dancing with a married woman in front of her husband and his own betrothed (and even if he just wanted to annoy Aegon, I think not dancing with Baela first is seen as a slight within Westerosi society) without any thought of repercussions or honour.
So yeah, it's actually surprising that neither Aemond nor Aegon started a fight sooner lmao.
But I am completely going off the rails here, my point was that Aegon isn't used to sharing Helaena and that he would absolutely hate it.
And the only way I can see Aemond being a part of the Helaegon relationship is definitely if it's clear that Aegon is the favoured one. He's the one Helaena calls Husband, he's the one who is allowed to be tender with her in public (which he would be more and more the moment Aemond would be involved with Helaena because Aegon is nothing if not mean and he likes to see the way Aemond tries so very hard not to look at them, failing spectacularly each time).
Helaena can 'indulge herself' but only if Aegon is present/informed, I would even go as far as saying that Aemond has to ask Aegon for permission before making Helaena come, because a wife's pleasure is her Husband's business.
It's also clear that all the children Helaena will carry will be Aegon's and in turn, Aegon makes sure that Aemond doesn't get married off (if it's a situation where Aegon is King anyway).
That way, Aemond can forever remain by his siblings' side, just like he wants to, and his loyalties will forever lie with his family, but it also means that he will have no children of his own and that he will view his niece and nephews as his, even if he can't be as affectionate as he may want to, so not to stir up any rumours.
(It would also be fun if Aegon kept dangling the possibility of Helaena carrying Aemond's child over Aemond's head, promising him that if he is good and if he pleases Aegon, he may be allowed to sire a bastard - and Aegon would definitely make it a point to call said potential child a bastard, only to make Aemond hate himself a little more, because he doesn't want to 'defile' Helaena like that, but he already lost any honour he may have had when he followed Aegon's invitation to join them in their chambers all those years ago and the thought of getting Helaena pregnant gets him off harder than he wants to admit to himself.
And if said possibility ends up being true - if Aegon decides he has enough male heirs which would sit the throne way before Aemond's kid would have the chance - then there's the added pain of finally having a daughter (because Aemond would definitely have a daughter and spoil her to death, I don't take criticism on that), yet having to watch her call Aegon 'Daddy' and giggle as Aegon bounces her in his lap.
Aemond would definitely be the most distant with the kid he sired because he would feel constantly watched whenever he interacts with his daughter, whereas he feels a little safer being affectionate with his niece and nephews and his child would definitely grow up thinking her uncle can't stand her while Aemond is absolutely dying to be tender with her).
Anyway all this to say that you are spot on anon, I love any and all interpretations of the greens and their incest obsession (for example Aegon offering Helaena up to Aemond as a way of apologizing for not protecting him from Luke all those years ago), but based on their canon characterization, if there was the potential of Helaegond (which I don't think would ever actually happen, Aemond is too much of a good catholic boy to even think about his sister while masturbating) then it would be similar to what you described.
Maybe Aegon would approach Aemond after the dinner - after he worked through his own feelings of jealousy and realized, hey, there's very much the possibility of somebody realizing how neglected Helaena is and just. courting her behind Aegon's back - especially if Otto somehow has his hands in it.
I don't know why I am so obsessed with this premise, but Otto actively looking for and intrducing noblemen to Helaena as a way of enticing them to pledge alliance to Aegon? Stunning. At first it's the possibility of claiming a Tagaryen princess for themselves, later on it's being in the Queen's favour - and there's definitely some underlying hope there to be the one to ease the Queen's loneliness👀👀
And Aegon would have none of that. So, maybe it's actually thanks to Jace and opening Aegon's eyes that he would approach Aemond and ask him to 'entertain our dear sister so her thoughts won't stray'.
And Aemond is definitely affronted on Helaena's behalf because their sister would never. But at the same time, he's only just a man and the flesh is weak and I mean, at first it's just things like, spending time with her and the kids and keeping Helaena busy enough, she doesn't have any time for noblemen and their sharp tongues and wandering eyes.
Which quickly morphes into him staying the night in Helaena's chambers - just to make sure she's safe and sound of course, watching over her like a good brother, making sure she's actually in her and Aegon's bed while is who knows where, doing things Aemond would never dare think about.
But of course the closer the proximity, the bigger the temptation and the more Aemond sees how dismissive Aegon is of Helaena, the more he feels like their Mother made the wrong choice not marrying Helaena to him instead. He would've been a good husband, he would've made time for his children, he wouldn't be out there siring bastards and fucking whores while slurring out their Mother's name!
So the inevitable happens.
Little does Aemond know that Aegon was counting on Aemond to succumb to his desires one way or another. Aegon isn't stupid. He knows that Aemond has wanted their sister ever since they were children and he has allowed Aemond's quiet longing because he knows that Aemond is too much like their Mother to ever act on it.
Not without a little push at least.
So now Aegon has seemingly solved his little problem, because he has somebody to keep Helaena satisfied so she won't do anything unbecoming of a lady with somebody else (because if anybody would get to touch his wife in Aegon's opinion it would be their brother. He is the only one Aegon wouldn't kill for it and that's only because Aemond came from their Mother too and Aemond came after him and Helaena and if Helaena was made for Aegon, than Aemond can only be made for Aegon and Helaena.
Just like Daeron was made for Aemond).
Plus, Aemond is so torn up about it, Aegon has complete control of him. Aemond would kiss Helaena for the first time and immediately report it to Aegon, on his knees like he's confessing the gravest sin. And Aegon would get to play the benevolent god, forgiving and Aemond and even encouraging him to keep sinning, but only the way Aegon allows him too.
And it's a perfect arrangement.
Until Aegon starts feeling left out.
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mejcinta · 8 months
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there is a big lack of romance in this show and i hope to see more human aspects of characters when atmosphere around getting darker and more violent
because all couples we got are • daemon and rhaenyra, where he groomed her out of womb • aegon and helaena both trapped in their failmarriage • corlys and rhaenys, now seem more normal than others couples, but still next season reveals he cheated on her multiple times • alicent who just freed herself from marriage with a neglectful man who doomed her and her children, but indeed she has an interesting dynamic with criston cole, some sort of courtly love between two people with religious guilt
and with ryan setting up new generation (children of alicent, rhaenyra, laena and daemon, corlys) to take a lead next seasons, writers have to make an effort to explore their relationship
aemond kissing pregnant alys as last thing he does in his life screams a romance
jace and his forbidden love/crush for certain wolf girl, no need to them share a kiss or do something more, one bittersweet look in their eyes(some sort “well, in another life”) him choosing a duty over love can emphasize what a short life of his, so he doesn’t get any chance to live as wants because his fate was determined by his parents actions and he had to deal with its consequences
i honestly don’t much care about corbray dude, but rhaena and garmund lovers on opposite sides of war has a lot of potential
ALL THIS! Yes, sometimes the almost nihilistic approach to characters and their relationships on the show can be a lot.
But I do have hope, especially for the 'younglings'. I love that you've listed them all down, each of them with different themes to their relationships.
Personally, I can't wait to see how they cover Aegon/Helaena, Aemond/Alys (although we're probs not getting it this season) and Rhaena/Garmund.
But if we're to be honest, they could absolutely introduce Corwyn in the Vale. Garmund is such an afterthought in Fire and Blood and I think the writers are too biased and petty to show that the Hightowers gained Rhaena in the end.
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foundationbuilt · 2 months
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send ⭐ for muses I'd like to explore <3
placed under a read more because there's quite a few dynamics sjsjsjs.
regulus & draco. so i have an undying need for regulus black lives and tries to stop draco from following down his path, like it's essential. but i know that your draco follows the werewolf theory which would also be very interesting. like regulus knows exactly how their family would react to that, and the other people around draco, and the regulus i write has grown up A LOT since he was a teenager. it would be an interesting dynamic, i think.
regulus & scorpius, depending on how you write scorpius, i can also see a potential here for complicated family dynamics.
percy & jason, of course, these two boys with their own camps and their own responsibilities and becoming two entirely different people because of this. it's very interesting and i love exploring it. i hate the "oh, i need to prove i'm better than him" kind of thing percy and jason were forced into in canon because i really don't see that as ... part of their personalities ?? so it'd be nice to explore otherwise.
percy & luke. potential, potential, so much potential !!!! like i'm all for the canon route of enemies these two went down, but i've also down for canon divergences where sally actually died and percy went full rebellion against the gods, on luke's side. kind of like the idea of sally dying earlier and percy ending up on the streets with luke, annabeth and thalia somehow. so much potential here.
sally & percy, role reversal i'd love to write my sally with your percy. because that relationship is just ... *chefs kiss*. i adore it. let me have it all.
poseidon & percy, same as the above, give me all the father-son dynamics. give me the angst, the rage, the bitterness, what it's like to have a child that heralds your doom, what it's like to have a father that doomed you to such a difficult life, and what it's like to find a way to love them anyway. poseidon desperately not wanting to lose his son and trying to find ways to get percy to accept godhood ... *side eyes*.
percy & ashton, when i read ashton's bio i kind of thought of percy and ashton being on a quest and ashton needing to use his charmspeak to manipulate their captors or whatever, and percy being like, yeah, thanks, bro, can you also charmspeak the dogs to stop barking and alerting everyone to where we are? unfortunately, i can only speak to horses. like i don't know why, but i really just get a chill vibe from these two together.
jace & alec, parabatai all the way i will die on this hill. i love these two. give me all the dynamics from the little boys who first met to the men they grow into, all the angst, the hurt they've inadvertently given one another, the devotion and even how that devotion can be their downfall !!!
clary & george, these two of simon's best friends meeting and being like, hmmmm ... like i can see a little bit of resentment in clary that someone could ever come into simon's life and replace her. but then she's so happy he had someone at the academy, and it's like "okay, truce, let's agree to share him."
clary & theo, i like the idea of clary being interested in this werewolf-nephilim hybrid, especially in a verse where jocelyn and luke have had a kid. like she would be trying to figure out what to expect for the future for her half-sibling, but even without that, i think she'd have a soft spot for him. defending him against the clave, etc.
scott & christopher argent jr. i like the idea of exploring a dynamic with allison's brother. that's something that scott never had to do in canon, and with a brother that's even more involved in the family business, even if he isn't after him like his father ( initially ), mother, grandfather and aunt were.
scott & liam, i love this dynamic !! scott's first beta, which he has so much guilt about and it's his responsibility and he messes up but he loves that kid and he wants to protect him ugh, give me scott and liam all the time, every day.
hayley & donovan, there's the past with tyler that i think would be really interesting for hayley to interact with his kid. especially when he's attending the same school as her kid.
hayley & klaus, my otp, i honestly don't care if it's romantic, sexual, platonic, familial, these two and their dynamics have a grip on my heart. i will always, always want to write everything about them. canon, divergence, au's - give me it all.
klaus & rebekah, sibling bond at it's toxic finest !! honestly, need i say any more.
hayley & rebekah, also sisterhood, because they both deserve it sm and they're both exactly what the other would need as a sister i think.
wednesday & enid, that's her best friend. she's never had a best friend before that isn't a disembowled hand but enid snuck under that skin and into her black heart and she's staying there. it was not wednesday's choice but it's happening. i love the dynamic.
katniss & finnick, like these two lost their minds together in thirteen and i will never be over their friendship. it is the LAST person katniss ever thought she'd be friends with but he ended up one of her best friends and i will forever sob about them. i love them, all dynamics, including an au where the rebellion never happened and katniss ended up a capitol puppet just like him. *side eyes*.
sam&dean & lennox, give me winchester sibling things. a littlest sibling for dean to be responsible for, a little sister for sam to also be responsible for. like there's so much potential here. sam not being the "baby" is ... interesting, because john and dean trying to "shelter" him is a major part of who he is.
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presidenthades · 8 months
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I am doing very minor revisions of Daemon’s Handbook (mostly formatting and continuity errors), and I wanted to do some behind-the-scenes commentary before too much time passes and I forget my original thoughts. Here’s Chapter 8!
(Note that these commentaries aren’t canon to the verse until/unless the author writes them into the series. I might change my mind on a few points later, but these are the thoughts I had while writing.)
Rhaenys thinks Corlys was ignoring her letters in the Stepstones, but he was also really busy making sure Aegon and Aemond, who are teenaged boys prone to doing stupid things, didn’t accidentally kill themselves trying to nose-dive some pirates.
Luce’s status as heir to Driftmark is nebulous at first. When Laenor was alive, a) Laenor was heir and b) Corlys thought Laenor and Rhaenyra might still have a son. Now that Laenor is dead, by Andal tradition, Luce would be heir as eldest daughter (after Jace who’s slated for the throne). But one could argue that House Velaryon is Valyrian so it doesn’t need to follow Andal tradition.
Some might argue it’s better for Driftmark to stay in the male line to ensure the Velaryon name continues (which is something show!Corlys is big on), or Luce could be named heir but she has to marry within House Velaryon so she and her heirs keep the name. In this fic, Corlys affirms Luce as his heir, and not even Vaemond can complain too much about it because “daughters before uncles” is the norm for everything but the Iron Throne.
I have a thought that whomever Luce marries, Corlys might require that her eldest son/heir takes the Velaryon name (maybe all the children, who knows). So, uh, probably best if her husband is a second son/not the heir to his own lands 👁️👄🔹
*insert joke about Jace and Luce being the breadwinners while Aegon and Aemond are trophy husbands*
The more I read about medieval/Tudor history, the more intrigued I am by ladies-in-waiting. GRRM doesn’t flesh them out super well in his universe, and the show doesn’t have an infinite budget to go into the royal women’s relationships with LIW, but that’s what fanfic is for. I’ll go into more detail about it in one of the sequel fics. Jace is going to have an interesting bunch of LIW.
Rhaena and Helaena are taking notes about Luce’s suitors, but the notes are for themselves. As Rhaena discusses in Chapter 10, she and Helaena have unusual requirements for their potential husbands, and Luce is helpfully attracting a very large pool of eligible (and not so eligible) men.
I mentioned in a past commentary that Alicent likes Jace because Jace is proper and a good influence on Aegon. Alicent *does not* like Luce, whom Alicent perceives as being the opposite of Jace. (Alicent is lucky Baela isn’t interested in her children. Also when Joff gets older…😅)
I drop hints that Aegon drinks a lot less in canon. Part of it is Jace’s good influence, and part of it is that being in the Stepstones made him realize it’s really dangerous being drunk. (See: Chapter 7’s story about his hair catching fire.) He does get drunk during the wedding feast, because it’s his wedding and he deserves a treat.
In the show, all of Borros’s daughters look like adults, but in the book, Floris is 11 when the Dance starts (and Ellyn might be around that age). It makes sense that Floris and Ellyn are so young, otherwise I’m wondering why Borros has four unbetrothed adult daughters when Aemond comes knocking.
In this fic, I decided Cassandra is 16 (same as Aemond and Jace), Maris is 14, and the other two still younger. As the eldest, Cassandra is throwing her hat in the “Aemond’s potential wife” ring, and she has reasons to think she has a good chance. Baratheons have Valyrian blood and their ancestors have intermarried with Targaryens before. She’s also the heir to Storm’s End if her father remains son-less. (Unfortunately for her, Aemond is interested in a different heiress 🤭)
Baela being a mystery knight and attracting Cregan’s attention is a role reversal of the ASOIAF Harrenhal tourney with Lyanna and Rhaegar. I was originally going to have Daeron also join the lists, but I realized that was redundant with Baela in the picture, and he’s too small to pass for an adult male. So Baela got her moment to shine!
Why does Baela challenge those three Northmen? What do they have in common besides being Northern houses? I guess we’ll have to see in the Joff-centric sequel 👀 (Or you could dig deep into the ASOIAF wiki and try to find the answer.)
I decided to give House Velaryon a Valyrian sword since they *are* a Valyrian house. Corlys says Aegon and Aemond helped get the sword from Racallio Ryndoon after hosting a beach party. Racallio has many wives and he sometimes sends them to other men who seem like, uh, good sperm donors. I’m imagining that he might have made a similar offer to Aegon or Aemond or both. 👀 (In this fic verse, the boys would turn it down but the whole scenario would be hilarious, I think.)
I regretted making Daemon an idiot about fashion because it meant I couldn’t go into *too* much detail about Jace’s wedding dress. (But I have other fics in the works where I *can* go into detail!) Notice that Jace has a penchant for gold clothing and jewelry…because Sunfyre. ☀️
Is the story about baby Jace and Aegon a metaphor for how he supports her claim to the throne? Yes. Yes it is.
Jace’s Princess Diana moment is a big part of her Good PR Masterplan. She’s gonna make the smallfolk love her if it’s the last thing she does.
The little exchange between Daemon, Rhaenys, and Viserys during the ceremony reflects how I imagine their childhood was like. Daemon’s always squirming during sept services, Rhaenys pinches and pokes him to make him behave, and Viserys is a tattletale.
The Faith is supposedly based on Catholicism, so I leaned hard into the kneeling during services so Daemon has another thing to complain about.
Not gonna lie, I kinda want to write a short fic where the Dance does happen in this universe, partially because Aegon thinks he has to be king to keep/protect Jace. 🥲 Don’t know how the logic works out, but it’s fanfic, we’re here for the vibes.
During the feast, Rhaena and Helaena are talking to Daemion Velaryon and Garmund Hightower about the Fake Husband Project. Helaena will probably end up marrying Daemion (paper marriage only), but I don’t think Rhaena/Garmund is going to happen. We’ll see.
I’m kinda sorry but not actually sorry for Aegon’s song. I am proud I managed to make the rhyming and rhythm work. 😇
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jaimeslanisters · 4 days
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as a team green enthusiast, i think what they have going on compared to the blacks is that they have way more interesting characters. whether you like or hate them, team green's characters are so much more intriguing to me. otto is smart and cunning, alicent is one of the most layered characters in the show, criston is one of the finest knights in the realm, aegon is a somewhat tragic bumbling drunkard (i don't subscribe to what the show decided to do) who finally receives some form of validation once he becomes king, helaena has her prophetic dreams, aemond is aemond, and i can't wait to meet show!daeron. the only interesting characters on the black's team (imo) right now are rhaenyra, daemon, and a bit of rhaenys and corlys. the rest are children (no shade). the velaryon twins deserve better, and honestly, what are the distinguishing traits between jace and luke? they're just "good" and handsome boys lol. all that is to say, i enjoy pawn so much because you highlight the uniquness and nuance of the greens and their interactions with one another, for better or for worst
YES!!! COMPLETELY!!!!!
quick rant about family dynamics in team green vs team black under read more
while i’m truly team “the targaryens were always going to collapse through their own hubris”, im team green simply because the characters are so much more interesting. they’re the roy family if you stuck them into westeros and handed most of them weapons of mass destruction. they love each other. they’re each other’s deaths. sometimes they can’t stand the mere sight of another. they’ll kill to protect one another. they’ll die for one another.
like!!! this is all canon. this is what the show has shown us. aegon gets slapped around by alicent but when they pull him from his hiding spot, he asks for his mother. alicent resents him at times, the first chain that was looped around her neck, but she’ll stand in front of a dragon for him, fight for what’s his for him. aemond wants the throne, he covets it, but he calls it his brother’s throne, threatens luke for the crime of trying to steal it. helaena endlessly whispers about the death of her family, sews a funeral shroud for the child she hasn’t lost yet. criston is their sword, their shield, their iron fist.
how am i supposed to not be insane about them?? all their complexities and resentments and joys?? there’s so much you can dig into, so much you can do with their relationships. i feel like i write a “kinder” version of them, their relationships when they’re relatively safe and when there’s no real pressure that’s risking their lives. in pawn, for now, they’re not faced with the cost of what everything will take, the cost they know they’ll have to pay, so they’re given the chance to be warmer and kinder with one another. we know they have the potential to - aegon immediately rises to aemond’s defense in the dinner after all. aegon and aemond are gossips in a corner in the opening scene and then barely an episode later, they’re knocking each other to the ground. they’re a family with all the hurt and pain and love it brings with.
and the team black gets to be the brady bunch? they love each other, of course they do, but no family is 100% perfect, 100% emotionally competent. rhaena is ignored for her lack of a dragon - wheres her resentment? her insecurity? baela just accepts that and doesn’t feel anger for her twin? the two of them don’t mind their birthrights being taken out from under them? baela is fostered with the velaryons - would that not sway her to being more sympathetic to these cousins she’s now living with? these cousins who think that luke is a bastard usurper?
the velaryon twins and the strong boys don’t clash like at all? rhaenyra and daemon just shoved their families together, barely waiting for their respective spouses to be buried, and that went down smoothly? the kids are fine with each other and their parents who they now think are murderers. somehow.
rhaenys and corlys are suddenly ok with the mysterious death of laenor? post ep 8, all that grief and rage rhaenys has on a low simmer just vanishes and is replaced by adoration of rhaenyra and it’s such a robbery.
jace, imo, is the only one who gets somewhat of a personality at time. he’s quick to violence when confronting aemond at the dinner (even though he’s painfully unequipped to handle it lmao). he obviously distrusts daemon and sees him as grasping at power during his mother’s labor. maybe it’ll get shown in s2 but the fact that with his own siblings, we don’t get to see even a crumb of the layered interactions we get to see between team green.
despite this rant, i do love team black. i know i mainly talk about team green on this blog and my fic (and my mc) are solidly team green as well but i like the bones of what team black is, particularly with the younger cast. i wish they were just allowed to hold grudges and be messy like real people.
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horizon-verizon · 1 year
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Doesn’t Rhaenyra having illegitimate children affect Alicent? A lot of people say that it’s “none of Alicent’s business” but it is. Rhaenyra having obvious bastard children puts Alicent’s own children in danger, because there will be people that want her son to be king over Rhaenyra’s bastard. It doesn’t matter whether Aegon wants the throne or not. People would still rally behind him which would threaten Jace’s rule, and Jace would eventually be forced to kill him to eliminate the threat.
I agree that Rhaenyra as a woman would always face opposition, but her having three obvious bastards really didn’t help her case, and it put her siblings in even more danger. I don’t blame Rhaenyra for not being able to have children with Laenor, but I do blame her for choosing Harwin to father her children. So I think Alicent trying to expose Rhaenyra’s bastards is her way of trying to protect her children’s lives.
A) I've addressed bastards and Rhaenyra this in the following:
A Semi-Master Post of Links
On Blaming Rhaenyra Alone and Specifically, sans discussion of bastards, for what happened to her and Not about Choosing Harwin
The Post already linked in the post/reblog linked in #2 as "Counterpoint"
In other words, they were NEVER in serious enough danger from any set of lords other than the greens. Neither in show nor book/canon lore.
B) About Harwin...
Do not mention Rhaenyra getting a Valyrian-descent man of either noble birth (which could only come from Houses Celtigar, Velaryon, or that one that starts with "Q"). There is the issue of how much she and Viserys could trust such a hypothetical man to not come back around and try to claim that he's the dad of these kids she would have with him more than if she could with a hypothetically straight/bi Laenor. Laenor was her closest cousin and had a good character. Laenor also came with the benefit of Corlys wanting grandkids as rulers. The problem worsened once you tried to find another hypothetical candidate from Essos, since his presence would need to be explained with Rhaenyra already married. AND, as I think I already mentioned in the post I linked above as #3, Rhaenyra using say, a Lysene sex slave or Pentoshi prostitute. Same issue as the hypothetical Essosi nobleman--you need to explain their presence and risk loss of reputation or at least it's suspicion that would lead to such loss. But if a slave, then we have another amoral act that we don't want anyone to perform: forcing an enslaved person to father your child for your own gain. Plus that's expensive and something not worth the money, with all its unnecessary and potentially damning risks.
Rhaenyra loved Harwin, and the reverse is true as well. She trusted Harwin as an individual and was sexually/romantically attracted to him. Trusted him with her and her loved ones' lives. Because she trusted him to not backstab her or block her, even would just see their kids as belonging more to her than to him, she saw someone necessary to her and their kids' security. Theirs was not just a political or business relationship, and in feudal politics, the personal and "business" can't ever be truly separate because reproduction is the business of marriage arrangements and alliances.
C) Finally....the Targs at this moment of ruling Targ history has the most dragons, more than the three Conquerors who managed to conquer all of Westeros (except Dorne) in less than three years....I think Jace was fine. Especially as long as Alicent's kids stayed in place and ALL FIFTEEN (or so) DRAGONRIDERS put down the hypothetical and unlikely rebellious lords:
*Daemon/Caraxes (if he somehow outlived Rhaenyra)
*Rhaenys/Meleys (if she outlived Rhaenyra)
Jacaerys/Vermax
Joffrey/Tyraxes
Aegon the Elder/Sunfyre
Aemond/Vhagar (or if he hadn't been sneaky, some other dragon)
*Helaena/Dreamfyre (if she were allowed to fight)
Aegon the Younger/Stormcloud--not really bc he is a child
Viserys (Rhaenyra's son)/whatever dragon he would have claimed--not really bc he is a child
Baela/Moondancer
Rhaena/Morning
*Jaehaera/Morghul (if allowed to fight, but she shouldn't because of really severe mental disabilities)--not really bc she is a child
Jaehaerys (Helaena's son)/Shrykos--not really bc he is a child
Maelor/whatever dragon he would have had--not really bc he is a child
PLUS whatever kids Aemond or Daeron would have had with their Andal wives and their dragons
I think that such a bevy would have been enough of a deterrent for the Andal-FM lords who would wish to rebel, even if there were any dumb enough to try. Expect maybe the ironborn, but those who mainly wage war by sail never really presented themselves as real trouble against the Targs after the Conquest and while the Targs had dragons. It is when we get to the Dance, when the Targs are fighting themselves that the ironborn really became a worse threat and it wasn't because of bastards so much as profiting off of the green's usurpation.
All those too young to fight would still leave behind enough grown riders who are intimidating enough.
**All Listed Riders and Dragons are by the time Jacaerys is king: Rhaenyra, Lucerys, Laena, Laenor**
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