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scalingsvt8thusiast · 1 month

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Skin-Deep Chapter 3

summary: The one where you fall for Seungcheol amongst all the protests and insecurities. The one where you don't know that he's fallen for you too.

A/N: I was debating doing a 3 and 3.5 again for the latter part of this chapter, but I cannot handle inconsistencies so that means it was either having many 0.5 or having that one off soonyoung insert. So i'm gonna try and stop the 0.5 chps but that depends on my future writings as well D: my mind is plagued by these sort of arguments

You and Mingyu were walking down the street after a very successful shopping trip. He wanted a new pair of leather shoes and you needed a new dress. The two of you were preparing for his parent’s imminent arrival. Every time his parents came into town, they insisted on having at least a meal with you.

“You know, I would have thought that Seungcheol would ask you out by now,” Mingyu said, you could feel him looking at you, trying to get a read on your emotions regarding the topic.

“And I told you, I’m not special,” you kept your face unreadable, you didn’t want Mingyu to worry.

It was hard to admit that you like Seungcheol. But you had to constantly remind yourself that despite what he says or the way he acts, he would do it for any girl who gave him any form of attention. His words that probably meant nothing to him, meant everything to you. You weren’t special. This placed you in an awkward situation, if you told Seungcheol how you really felt you’d be risking jeopardising the friendship as well as the dynamics of the group. That and you did not want to embarrass yourself.

“I think the two of you should talk,” Mingyu said. His forehead creasing from how wide his eyes were. Maybe he would be able to read your mind if he looked at your harder.

“I think you should butt out, Gyu.” You said, you were starting to get annoyed, with yourself and Mingyu. More annoyed with yourself really. “Think about it, Seungcheol’s not dumb. If he wanted to do something, he would have done something by now.”

“Maybe he IS dumb, you never know.” Mingyu shrugged, you looked a him incredulously, “I mean the last time we played soccer together, he did fall down and hit his head quite hard.”

You sniggered and said, “Gyu, I love you, but please for the love of god, shut up.”

Then you spotted something on the other side of the street that made your heart to stop. Mingyu who continued walking noticed that you weren’t next to him. He followed your gaze and made a mental note to never speak ever again.

Sitting at a table outside a cafe was Seungcheol and a girl. The girl was twirling her hair, looking extra love-sick and giggling while Seungcheol sat relaxed with his arms crossed. As she spoke, she leaned closer him. Mingyu froze with his mouth agape, he didn’t know what to say or do. He turned to you to look at you. Your were standing completely still, eyes devoid of life, your lips slightly downturned at the ends.

“Told you.” You whispered, loud enough for Mingyu, loud enough so he wouldn’t hear how your voice cracked. You met Mingyu’s eyes and gave him a weak smile. Mingyu had never felt shittier.

He wrapped an arm around your shoulder as he lead you to his car, hoping that Seungcheol did not see the two of you. Actually, he hoped that Seungcheol did see the two of you, that would give Mingyu a valid reason to punch him when you weren’t around.

The car ride to your place was silent. You sat with your hands on your lap, eyes cast towards the moving scenery.

Mingyu had seen you through breakups before. He always felt that you had a habit of dating people not on the same level as you were. He could never pick out any decent guys from any of your past relationships. When Seungcheol started showing an interest in you, Mingyu was excited: finally there was a guy worthy of you and your time. Oh how wrong he was.

Mingyu cleared his throat, “Your brother called me the other day, he was talking about some car.” He forced a small laugh. He was hoping to take your mind off Seungcheol, he knew how much you liked home so anything related to that would be good.

You hummed, then barely loud enough for Mingyu to hear, “I’m alright, Gyu. Don’t worry.”

Mingyu huffed, when he saw Seungcheol, he was going to get it.

“Cheollie~ you left me alone at the party the other day!” Seungcheol rolled his eyes, he couldn’t even remember her name. What was it? Jimin? Stella? Ying? Fuck it.

“Yea, I just wasn’t feeling it.” Seungcheol reasoned he could probably get through this conversation without saying her name.

She giggled and leaned closer, “Anyway Cheollie~ I’m so happy we’re finally out on a date! I knew we were always~~~ meant to be”

Seungcheol cleared his throat and tried his best to lean further away into the chair. If he had a choice he would rather it be you at this cafe, sitting opposite him, rather than this pink, squeaky thing.

“This is definitely not a date,” he rubbed the bridge of his nose with his eyes closed, he could feel a migraine coming on. “I called you out here because I heard about the way you treated my friend.”

“Which friend? Was it Jeonghan? Baby I only have eyes for you~” Seungcheol wanted to throw up.

“Y/N.”

“Who? Baby~ why are we talking about another girl?”

“You disrespected her while she was working.” Seungcheol was becoming increasing annoyed every second. The thought of this thing disrespecting you pissing him off.

Soonyoung had told him about the event at the coffee shop. It took all of Soonyoung and a very concerned Jeonghan to stop him from barraging out the door and killing those girls. Who did these people think they were? Paying you off? Disrespecting you that way? He seethed silently throughout the whole outing with his friends.

“OH!” As if she had just received a revelation, she smiled sweetly, “I did you a favour Cheollie~ that gold digger has no place being anywhere near you.”

Seungcheol’s fist clenched. He really did not want to start punching women but this person was making it very hard. He reminded himself, the faster he was done with this, the faster he could go and look for you.

“Your father works at my company doesn’t he?” Seungcheol forced himself to look at her. As soon as he got home that day he looked up this girl’s family, turns out her father worked at one of his father’s subsidiary companies.

The girl’s eyes flicked upwards as if thinking, if that was even possible. “I’m not sure baby, but I’m definitely on your level~”

“Jesus Christ are you dumb- you know what? Let’s cut to the chase I can’t deal with this anymore.” Seungcheol stood up, not wanting to be in this thing’s vicinity any longer. “You talk to her again, you even so much as look at y/n? I’ll make sure your father is fired, I’ll make sure your family won’t be able to find another job anywhere in the world.”

The girl immediately recoiled from him, her mouth hung open at Seungcheol’s glare. If looks could kill, she would have been dead 10 times over.

“Think I won’t do it, baby?” He spat the last part out like it was poison.

“I’ll make sure you never leave your house ever again. Trust me.”

A/N2: Again, always accepting criticsm, comments, questions :D shoot me a message/dm/ask or whatever ✌️

#seungcheol x reader #scoups x reader #seungcheol fluff #scoups fluff #seungcheol fic #scoups fic #choi seungcheol #scoups #seventeen seungcheol #svt fanfic #svt fic #svt x reader #svt fluff #seventeen x y/n #seventeen x reader #mingyu #svt #seventeen

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utilitycaster · 6 months

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I'm so kdhdkdjdkd jazzed about the fjorester proposal !!!! But something that popped up pretty immediately that baffled me was these like... cope posts i guess? Of how "beau and jester should cheat leaving their partners for eachother and how dw guys marriage is just going to spice up the inevitable affair" and it's not even treated as a joke and Im just confused? Like i got into cr2 by the time it was over with so idk what it was like waiting for releases, but why after all this time do people hold on as much as they do? Do they like the story or not?

So I will be totally honest: I am not above checking the blogs of those I know hold terrible opinions, for a number of reasons both reasonable (keeping an eye out for potential harassment; inspiration for meta; my genuine enjoyment of analyzing fandom trends) and less so (schadenfreude and sending DMs that say Can You Believe This Idiot) but I actually have not seen this! To be clear, I would not be surprised it was out there - heaven knows this was a refrain during late Campaign 2 and in the leadup to the two-shot - but I thought that most people finally gave up in late 2022 after the two-shot made it clear the existing relationships are still very much in place. Granted I, as always, rarely go on Twitter.

Anyway. I think some of it is just that people whose enjoyment of works hinges on their ships becoming canon, rather than that being one of many facets to their fandom, also tend to not know when to give up just generally (you can look around this website and still find people hopping mad and/or pining for resolution regarding shows that ended before Campaign 2 even started). I think most of them did finally give up and leave, which is probably healthier for both them and the fandom, but there will probably be a dwindling number of holdouts who will gasp out on their deathbed fifty years hence "Beau and Jester should have been together" to a politely confused hospice nurse.

To actually answer your question, no, they do not like the story. I know I've been very hard on people who seem to only be able to enjoy fiction through a lens of either shipping or intense projection of the self onto existing characters, but in my defense, I'm right. This is a whole separate post, which to be honest I've kind of already made several times, but the usual complaint about the Campaign 2 noncanon ships (echoed in the complaints about Campaign 3 primarily by those who do like the canon ships thereof) was that they would have happened and been flawless and perfect but for that Pesky Plot, ie, the story. Unless the entire point of a story is a romance (eg: the genre that is cleverly titled "Romance") romance is always optional.

I also think, to be honest, Campaign 2 attracted people who were patient. This is a good thing! I think that, for example, people who are not entirely feeling Campaign 2 13 episodes in are valid, because I was similarly enjoying myself but not entirely won over by the plot yet, and it was only a combination of that patience and the burgeoning character dynamics that kept me going (plus the fact that watching week to week is a lower commitment than a binge). Granted I think if you fully give up at that point you are weak and will not survive the winter and should probably go watch Michael Bay movies or Bluey, but that's a separate point. Anyway. Some people are patient beyond a point where it is rewarding or even neutral and pass into a realm of showing up to the Story That Has Fjorester and Beauyasha In It muttering "I hope this doesn't have any fucking Fjorester and Beauyasha". I don't know how to help them, nor do I particularly want to, but I do know that not going on Twitter has been super helpful.

One final note: again, haven't seen the thing you mention in your ask yet in relation to this one-shot and not for lack of poking around Tumblr at least; but I have seen people who were deeply bitter about Campaign 2 but are still around for Campaign 3, though not a ton, and this was also frankly true of people who loved Campaign 1 and have not really cared since but still stick around. There's a weird zombie problem in the fandom; you get people who are very invested in being a fan of Critical Role and can't seem to leave, but haven't actually been happy for literal years, either because they were ultimately only fans of Vox Machina, or the Mighty Nein, or a specific ship within that. It is actually something I try to be cognizant of because I was very cautious about becoming that during the stretch when I was more frustrated by Campaign 3 than I am now. I think, ultimately, it's a conflation of one's fandom with one's external identity and I don't know how that happens or how to fix it but that might also be a factor: people who really don't like the show and haven't for years and are grasping at a thing they think would fix that and make them happy again, and refuse to admit it might be time to move on because that would mean they need to change their conception of themselves.

#answered #Anonymous #follow for more amateur fandom sociology #critical role spoilers

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daytaker · 1 month

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Potential Weaponization of Anti-Ship Culture to Justify Personal Discomfort - An Essay

TW: mentions of shipping minors, censored use of words often used in the context of shipping minors by those who dislike it, some devil's advocation, a critical look at the motivations behind a multilayered and multifaceted movement that includes many people who are there for diverse reasons and whose disliked ships range from "literally there's nothing wrong with this" to "the most toxic and abusive thing imaginable" so please don't take this as me saying everyone's views within anti-culture are morally or ethically equivalent because they aren't, also simping over an anime man, but I'm not sorry for that because he's beautiful. And also potential kavetham slander but it isn't really slander because I never claim that there's actually anything wrong with the ship, but if seeing me say "i don't like that" might upset you maybe give this one a miss.

The reason I was thinking about this subject at all is because of this video essay, which I encourage you to watch if you're at all interested in this sort of thing:

Fandom Policing, Purity Culture and the Death of Media Literacy by E

(also i call this an essay in a tongue-in-cheek way but it's lowkey the length of an actual essay so strap in i guess.)

So I've been playing hella Genshin Impact again lately.

I want to marry Kaveh. I want him carnally. In fact, I'm going to go ahead and say that, actually, I am already married to Kaveh in every sense of the word besides legally. Additionally, I should probably mention that I'm probably the least polyamorous person alive. I simply could never share in a relationship. I would inevitably have a favorite and it would be an ugly mess. I mention this because it provides a bit of context as to why I feel so sad that my husband Kaveh is so ubiquitously shipped with whats-his-name, because I am deeply and intensely in love with him, so seeing him with another man hurts me on a very deep level, and I cannot nor do I want to engage in the mental gymnastics of an imaginary polycule.

So all that said, I was sitting alone, stewing over my dislike of this ship, and something occurred to me. Something disturbing. Because as much as I don't ship this particular thing, there's nothing wrong with the ship. The characters are adults, they're not related, there's no abuse, they just canonically act as if they don't like each other while having a more complicated relationship. You know the type. They're very popular. I've never liked ships between characters that don't get along in canon, so even if I wasn't madly in love with Kaveh, I don't think I'd be a fan of this particular ship. What I'm getting at is this:

What if I gave into my darker impulses and acted like the worst of the antis? I could come up with some rationale for why this extremely popular ship is actually extremely toxic and validate my own discomfort over seeing my lawfully wedded husband getting dicked down by some dude. I could say, "Financial abuse! Kaveh could never be in a consensual relationship with a man who could literally make him homeless on a whim!" I could say "My precious baby is being manipulated by a man who is in a position of power over him due to my baby's decision to value his art over all else and hurling himself into bankruptcy like a moron!"

Then I could declare that the ship is toxic; therefore those who ship it are toxic; therefore those who warn about its toxicity are protecting others from toxic influences. I am morally good. I am protecting the internet from nastiness.

Of course that would be very silly and extremely manipulative of me, because there's nothing inherently wrong with shipping two adults from a piece of fictional media, even when their dynamic is a lot more dubious than the one between these two.

But this brings me back to what I was thinking about before... That is to say, my deep, gut discomfort with the ship for entirely personal reasons. A lot of people, myself included, seem to feel like we need to have logical reasons behind our likes and dislikes. It's not enough just to feel a certain way. We need to be able to defend our views against nay-sayers. This is particularly true when you dislike something, because when you go out into a crowd (the internet) and start broadcasting that you don't like something, it's seen as a little inflammatory.

And with good reason! If I didn't think of all this stuff I wanna talk about, I would have kept my thoughts on this ship completely to myself, because my negativity really couldn't do anything but antagonize people who do like the ship.

I wonder to what extent our culture of extremism has bled into our media consumption even on such an unimportant level as shipping. If I find out someone I know votes Republican, that will change my entire perspective on them. But sometimes we take something like that and translate it to stuff that's a lot less important. Like, "If I find out someone ships two teenagers, that will change my entire perspective on them." (I'm not here to get into the ethics of shipping minors, but I'm willing to stick my neck out enough to say that the above example wouldn't be something I'd be horrified to discover about a friend or acquaintance. A lot of media stars teenage characters, it's just the reality of what we consume, and when people consume media, people ship the characters, it just happens.)

But what if you didn't actually care that they were teenagers, in your heart of hearts? What if you just...didn't like the ship, because you shipped one of them with somebody else, or you headcanon that one of them is gay, or straight, or ace, or whatever? But you're sick of seeing this stupid ship everywhere, and has anyone even considered the fact that these characters are minors? In a sense, by shipping them, you're s*xualizing minors. So in a sense, anyone who likes this ship is okay with s*xualizing minors. So in a sense, anyone who likes this ship is okay with p*dophelia. So in a sense, anyone who likes this ship is a p*dophile. And now, you can hate that ship openly and rather than being an asshole who's ruining people's day, you're a crusader for morality.

You are morally good. You are protecting the internet from nastiness.

Okay, now for my disclaimers, because I'm a fearful netizen!

Now I want to be very clear and say that I'm NOT suggesting that this is secretly the reason why anyone hates any ship. Plenty of ships are nasty for all sorts of reasons. Though I would encourage readers to consider whether that nastiness is grounds for a call-out rather than simply blacklisting it.

Also, some people have strong negative reactions to ships that might seem unproblematic or at least not that awful for reasons that aren't just "it goes against my headcanon" or "I'm lawfully married to Kaveh how dare you". Some people might see real life trauma reflected in ship dynamics that aren't inherently "gross" to other people.

Basically, I want to acknowledge that this is a specific look at a specific subsection of shipping purity culture, and I'm not claiming to examine every potentiality of the issue with complete nuance. But I do want to assert that this is a nuanced issue, and encourage people to discuss it with each other in good faith, not assuming that the other party is intentionally ignoring a perspective or trying to harm or silence another group.

#text post #not om #fandom shenanigans #other fandoms #genshin impact #i'm married to kaveh #why am i like this

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julyarchives · 3 years

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Thicker Than Blood || (M) || Ch. 01

Growing up in a tough neighborhood had you learning to deal with hard situations, the occasion leads you to cooperate with the mafia organization that took care of your neighborhood - Pentagon. Looking after yourself and valuing your safety brought you to adapt to the moment, but the line between working for them and protecting yourself is very blurry when you are forced to live under their roof.

→ Pairing: Pentagon OT9 x Reader

→ Genre: Smut; Mafia AU.

→ Words: 2.2K

→ Contains: Mentions of Alcohol; Mentions of Violence.

→ A/n: So this is our Pentagon Mafia AU Series! This story will be multi-chaptered and we will add more tags as the story goes on, we have big plans for it! We hope you guys like it and it is worth the wait!

→ Index: 01 • 02 • 03

Chapter 01 - The Collectors

The cute jeans and red t-shirt you wore barely matched the bar you currently were on behind the counter. The place was quite nice but it was still too rustic for your liking, too brown and dark. Usually, the customers were rustic as well, and had a certain grumpiness to them, just like the place. You shrugged for the nth time while lost in thoughts. Working at a bar on a Tuesday night was the perfect situation for boredom, and bored you were.

Thinking back, you barely understood how you got the job anyway, walking in there one day to kick your friend's ass for drinking while you had a job to do with him and the owner liked your style. He needed someone behind the counter, you needed the money, it was perfect. You were rather young and sweet, you knew that often resolving some complicated shit and arguments in the bar but you also knew how to answer when needed and to take no one's shit home, you still stood up for yourself. Ok so maybe working at a bar was the perfect job for you.

Not wanting to dwell on how you wanted a better paid perfect job, you busied yourself by watching the entrance. It was Tuesday, so you've been kind of anxious the whole day waiting for them to show up. You almost gave your excitement away when two figures entered the bar and sat in front of you on the bar stools.

"Hello, boys. The usual?", you asked them with a bright smile.

"Please, Y/N".

"Right away", you chipped as you turned to get them their cold drinks. It'd be funny to see them drink a sweet cocktail instead of anything stronger if you didn't know them a bit better.

Wooseok and Yuto were young. Sweet and awkward boys that most older people liked and wanted to pamper. That's what you heard anyway whenever you spoke to the neighbors. You also knew they were attached to the hip, always together and always messing with each other. They had a third part to their best friend dynamic and you only saw him a few times at the bar, but you knew they clearly loved each other as brothers.

But that information didn't add up to the other information you had on the boys. The reason you expected them every Tuesday was because of their work. And that was what confused you. As every person in the region knew, there was only one force to respect and listen and that was the Pentagon gang. No, not a gang. It was straight down mafia business and these two cute young boys were their collectors. So every Tuesday they went out to collect the fee from every block and at the end, they'd crash at the bar to chat and drink something.

Seeing them every week made you realize how nice they were and quickly put the whole mafia business behind them. You, better than anyone, understood that you gotta do what you gotta do to survive. Since then, Wooseok and Yuto became more open with you and always brought back gossip when they had a good day. After all, mafia men were still men. Well, boys.

"Here you go, guys", you placed the drinks down and smiled sweetly.

"Thanks, Y/N", Yuto had a deep voice and it always managed to startle you.

"So, any gossip?", you chuckled and the boys followed, lowering their heads as if to share a secret with you.

"Guy from the butcher shop was working alone", Wooseok said, "caught his employee with his girl".

"No way!", you truly were shocked at the irrelevant news.

"Yep", he said while Yuto nodded. "Oh, and someone's trying to get inside our territory. We saw a warning at a wall, directed at us and, well, at all of you".

"What?!", you shouted and they looked at you like you just offended their entire family. You were confused. One, why were they telling you information that may be confidential? Two, how could they speak about something dangerous so casually?

"We have orders to let you know, actually", Yuto said as if he was reading your mind. "We know who these people are but not their faces. We thought maybe they'd start by frequenting a place where they can get more intel on our people".

"Here then".

"Hm, yeah", Wooseok nodded. "The warning only said to be careful who is loyal to us or the community would show us. We guess they want to turn people against us"

"More people, more money. An entire neighborhood against us wouldn't be controlled by usual methods. So, that's when you come in".

"If you're suggesting what I think you're suggesting, then no way". You were bold enough to talk back and they only raised their eyebrows at you.

"We only need you to be on the lookout for someone different", Wooseok clarified, "if there's at least one person asking the wrong questions about the community, you gotta let us know".

"Helps if we can identify a face", Yuto shrugged.

"Do I have a say in this?", you already knew the answer.

"As much as you do about our fee, Y/N".

"Fine. But if they come for me, I won't wait for your boys to come to rescue me. I'll bolt", you said with a sigh in defeat.

"You won't be alone", Wooseok said as Yuto typed away on an old phone. "You'll be getting a visit from tomorrow on, he's our shapeshifter, blends in wherever".

"If you have a guy like that, why put me to watch anyone?"

"Y/N", Yuto sighed and looked straight into your eyes. "We could burst into any safe house right now and do whatever we pleased with whoever was in our way. But we do value our community, that's why we got hold of this business in the first place. The bar is where everyone comes for information and you know that. Don't forget why you're behind this counter, to begin with. We need the bartender to do her job and chat with her customers as she does. The info will come to you".

"I-", you were starstruck and kept glancing from Yuto to Wooseok, hands on the counter. "I- this is the most you have spoken to me since we met". It came out accidentally and you wanted to slap yourself.

Wooseok laughed and Yuto smiled at you. You could feel the heat on your cheeks but only nodded to yourself, still processing everything. They finished their drinks in one big gulp and got up, Yuto nodding at you still with a cute smile on his lips, one that didn't match his previous words. Wooseok watched as Yuto walked out of the bar and chuckled at your expression that slowly was turning grumpy.

"I know you'll do just fine. It's not like us to put people in our business but to protect people, we need you", he was leaning forward, as if to make you see him and only him. "So, congratulations, you got promoted!", he laughed.

"Yeah, I'm the lookout kid", you definitely were grumpy now. "You need me to protect people but who protects me?".

"Me", Wooseok said a bit too fast. "I mean, Pentagon does. And you'll have the right company for that, don't worry. He'll be here tomorrow night".

Wooseok smiled at you again and turned away from you, leaving you to your thoughts. Why the hell was this happening? You got why this way was safer to find out who was behind the threat but you still were unsure. Well, it's not like you could say no without a valid reason. And apparently, your safety wasn't one.

You watched Wooseok leave and sighed. Getting their glasses to clean up, you kept thinking about all the things that could go wrong but also all the things that could go right. Part of you wanted to impress them and come out as a hero, it'd give you something else to do instead of just being the bartender. You laughed at the absurdity of it all and quickly shoved it all in the back of your head, deciding to let the future self deal with the situation and this guy who'd meet you tomorrow, slipping back into the boredom of a Tuesday night at the bar once again.

Laying on your bed, your mind raced nonstop and you couldn't sleep no matter how much you tried. Yuto's words kept coming back and you felt even more deflated each time. "Don't forget why you're behind this counter, to begin with". You knew your upbringing was shitty and you had to fend for yourself a long time but you honestly thought that it didn't matter much until now.

Your parents fled when you were eight. They had some issues with themselves and suddenly having a family became too much of a cage for them and they fled. They left you with your grandmother and never came back. Your grandma was a saint, she was sweet and loving but she was sick enough to not be able to work, so you toughen up and started bringing money home by twelve years old.

You smiled thinking about how she raised you with such care and love that you managed to get that trait from her even if the streets treated you like shit. You discovered soon enough that all the love your grandma had was all the love you could get because no one liked a little girl who put her hands on whatever she could find to sell and get hers. You met a few people while you grew up and managed to turn out just fine even if it bruised you more than you liked to admit.

When you were around seventeen your grandma passed, you thankfully blocked whatever memory you had of her suffering and only focused on her happy memories. Since then you got her small and simple house and got more involved in the community, everyone who respected your grandma finally understanding why you were a kid like you were. Fast forward a few years and you got the job at the bar and things got a bit better.

You got up from the bed and scoffed at how things were mostly shoved on your face enough that you had to go with the flow every time. Fucking Pentagon taking over the neighborhood when you were a kid and now this. You heard more than participated in the whole protecting mafia business when you were younger, but the situation wasn't strange to you. Getting around in the streets you knew things and the most important one was to follow the organization's rules.

When you were twelve and started to hit the streets, you knew very well to not mess with the men from the org. But also soon enough you learned that the best way to earn anything good was to be on their good side. So you started to run a few errands for them and earned a good amount. Of course, you had nothing to do with them but still, it was a good connection. You didn't know much about the members in the hierarchy but you were sure that no one from the time you were a kid was still in their ranks.

You were sure mafia business was very harsh and violent but the boss was too violent once upon a time and things got out of hand. The neighborhood they swore to protect was being targeted and they brought the fight to all people. Fortunately, it ended after a few months of much fear and blood around the streets and you heard they all changed members. Rumor had it that it was their kids that took over when the parents died during the more violent times, at least in the high ranks. But you had stopped tending to them a few months before it went down so you had no idea for sure.

You only knew that Pentagon had a hard time getting people's trust again and started a more gentle approach with the community, hence why Wooseok and Yuto were dear to some people under their wings. They went over to everyone who had helped them directly and formally thanked and apologized for their trouble. Of course, they still terrified people who walked out of line and when the community respected them again, it was clear they were in charge. But now it seemed like they only cared about their own business and getting richer with their schemes instead of getting involved in a bloody gun war.

You realized you were standing in the middle of the corridor getting lost in thought and laughed to yourself before finishing the path to the kitchen to get water. The cold water helped you calm down and soon you were too busy sitting on the couch looking for any silly reality show to get lost into.

Halfway through the episode, you felt the sleep taking over you but being comfortable on the couch made you just pull a cover you kept there over you and stayed there, falling asleep in seconds. It was a very rough and long day, so you welcomed the slumber gratefully. Little did you know that while you succumbed to sleep in the living room, your phone buzzed in your bedroom, a small text that should be completely out of line appearing.

We trust you to do this safely but count on me to help. -WS.

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wickedpact · 3 years

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A ranking of all the TTT stories in order of how much I liked them.

(Oh god this is so long)

1 My Mother's Axe

BABY ANDYYYYYYYYYYYY. Honestly this one had the trifecta of developing a character's motivations, developing a character's backstory, & developing their personality. The story starting out with Andy teaching Nile to use the axe was so charming and fun, and you could feel that chemistry they had in Opening Fire, the way they teased and bickered with each other so naturally. I loved the wedge between them on the subject of the axe, how Nile was perhaps a little too young to understand Andy's feelings about whether or not its the 'same' axe. I also love how the axe is obviously the symbol of the franchise and hugely important, but you never get a sense of exactly how important it is to Andy until you read the story.

I love the entire Ship of Theseus theme, and how it feels so natural that for Andy she has to get attached to the idea of things rather than the things themselves because she'll always outlive the things themselves-- the axe is symbolically her mom's axe, even if physically it isn't. And I love how she clearly clings to that concept so tightly. "This is the labrys she held in her hands...." IT GETS ME.

And the fact that this sense of BELONGING, of FAMILY, of CULTURE is so important to Andy that she clings to it (figuratively and literally) with both hands. And of course it's important to her, she spent so long alone that the woman doesn't even remember her birth name. That axe (or the idea of that axe) is all she has left of her mother and that family/culture she was born into.

PLUS on that note I love how Andy doesn't remember if her mom was her actual biological mother, but it doesn't matter to her. This woman was her mother in all the ways that counted. And how her mom BETRAYED AND KILLED Andy but Andy loved her so much that she avenged her and carried her axe for thousands of years. THOUSANDS OF YEARS!!!!!!

I also loved how the story transcends the timeline of the whole franchise and seeing Andy through the years. Loved seeing her with the varying squads and with varying axes. Also baby Andy was so cute. It was cool seeing her so young. like holy fuck. Andromache The Scythian, Immortal Warrior (but smol). Love that.

Also I think this one is one of the few ttt stories that doesn't suffer from length problems.

tldr: goddammit greg you've done it again.

2 Zanzibar and Other Harbors

Zanzibar my beloved. I've said before, but it's downright comedic how little regard there was for Joe and Nicky's character designs in this story. The same person who does the colors for the regular comic did the colors for this one too, and you can tell, every panel of this story was Beautiful.

Ik there was A Lot of criticism of this one (lmao @ how the fandom had no idea what was to come) but I thought a lot of The Discourse was a bit dramatic. I did think Nicky came off as a little oblivious to Joe's feelings in this story, but I've said before, I honestly think that was a 'tone not translating' thing. It felt like Nicky was nagging Joe for [checks notes] saving innocent people, but Joe was so amused by Nicky's complaints I really do think it was supposed to come off as teasing.

Plus I know the 'Joe running off into danger and Nicky reluctantly following' dynamic wasn't popular (I'm a pretty meh on it meself) but I did love how Joe's impulsiveness (if you want to call it that) was interpreted as heroism and not hot-hotheadedness. All of the examples Nicky and Joe talked about included Joe explicitly saving people. (and it also took A Lot for the nazi to actually provoke Joe).

I also feel like their characterization here was closest to the movie canon-- the bit where they hear the woman scream and Joe goes running in to save her while Nicky swoops in on Joe's heels to comfort her while Joe and the nazi were fighting reminds me of the train car scene. Joe had suggested First that they go find Nile because she needed to be protected, and Nicky later added that Nile probably also needed emotional support. Similar reactions.

But it was So Good, the themes of queer community and the enduring nature of queer culture are Not themes you see in media that often and it was such a delight how it was done. Also it's one of the few more modern TTT stories that has a completely valid excuse for taking place when it did. Chef's kiss.

3 Passchendaele

I love the Duality between seeing baby Andy and then seeing Mama Andy in the very next issue. This story doesn't have a ton of meat to it, but the entire concept of Andy adopting a war orphan straight off the battlefield PLUCKS MY TENDER LITTLE HEARTSTRINGS, and I think it's especially poignant for comic!Andy. I think most people wouldn't think twice about movie!Andy doing something like that but comic Andy is so hardened and almost cruel sometimes, and seeing that even for her the world hasn't beaten all of the compassion from her yet is SO!!!!!!! this woman contains MULTITUDES okay, she's violent and angry and tired and Done but she's also so kind and compassionate and THE STRENGTH OF HER!!!!! Also the idea of her and Yitzhak co-raising a kid together is so damn cute. It was #mysterious pre-Yitzhak-story but now it's cute. holy fuck. It's cute.

& the headbonk panel of her and Zeus lives in my heart. anyways.

4 Many Happy Returns

I Know people weren't thrilled about Booker being in this one, but I've developed a pet-peeve about that: this story was *not* booker-centric. Booker only exists in this story to the extent required to explain the importance of the gesture Nile makes towards him. If there was a story about Booker making some grand gesture of kindness to Nile no one would be saying it was Nile-centric. bc it wouldn't be! Booker exists in this story to explore Nile's kindness, its not about him. I saw that a couple times and it bothered me. anyways.

AAAAAAAAAA I loved this one, the art was beautiful, I loved how Andy Nile and Booker were drawn (like their comic selves but.. more looking like actual people). I loved Andy and Nile's Bants, how Andy wanted to jump right in and Do Violence but Nile was basically telling her to hold her horses.

I feel like I'm just repeating the post I made on this story a few days ago, but I LOVED how Nile's plan revolves not around violence or Cool Mercenary Skills but on Nile's own life skills (as she canonly did a lot of minimum wage job-hopping before the marines in comics canon). Her plan used her skills, not the skills of an immortal warrior, and HER SKILLS were in fact more useful for the situation! lov to see Nile's resourcefulness and planning skills.

AND HOW NILE WAS PROBABLY WATCHING BOOKER??? it's so Much bc 1.) nile knew booker A SINGLE DAY and yet he made such an impression on her emotionally that she had to keep an eye on him and 2.) she said in the movie she wanted Booker to get off free with an apology. Yes she's a member of the team but that doesn't mean she's necessarily going to follow orders like a good little soldier. I also love how she convinced Andy to go along with it. her HEART, her KINDNESS, her THOUGHTFULNESS, UGH.

5 The Bear

Honestly I have like no negative things to say about this one other than a.) character design issues which is less about the story itself and is more of a 'tog comic in general' criticism and b.) too short, but it was supposed to be a tease, so.

But I loved Yitzhak, I wasn't expecting to really like him at all but like I said in my other post, he tickled me. I love characters who are Kind™, especially if they have little reason to be so given their backgrounds. Chef's kiss. Lov him.

6 Bonsai Shokunin

I know this one was a little controversial bc of the outsider POV but whenever I see people upset about that they never point out that the Outsider Guy (the samurai) existed as a reflection on Noriko. His ideas are explained in the text to develop hers. The whole story follows how she gave mercy to a scared young man and in response he murdered Noriko, repeatedly! Who gave him the right to inflict such pain and suffering on the world? In his opinion, the lack of response from the gods was his permission. And for Noriko-- over and over again she dies and suffers because she gave mercy, which lines up with her ideas in FM about how it's their fate to rule mortals and if they don't align with that plan/fate/whatever then they suffer. It shows some background to those ideas and how they developed in her mind outside of Ocean Madness™. Additionally, his idea of 'the Gods have done nothing to strike me down so it's fine if I do these things' kind of explains how Noriko may justify her own morally corrupt actions-- she's died so many times and it's never stuck. Maybe if she did die any of those times, or while she was in the water, maybe that would've been a sign she was doing something right, or at least doing something normal. But she hasn't died. Fate isn't done with Noriko yet. And maybe there's a reason for that. In her mind, it's just not a very pleasant reason, is all.

There were things I was kind of meh about tho. I did kind of wish we saw something of Noriko and the team, or smth explaining the way she was before her dip in the pool-- personality, likes dislikes, etc. but it wasn't bad or anything. It was super vague tho, I had to read it a few times before I got what it was going for. Liked the art. Liked the bonsai metaphor. And of course I Respect the decision to use the 1300s (1200s? I don't remember off the top of my head) rather than using the last 200 years.

7 Strong Medicine

Honestly looking back, this one made me kind of sad because both this one and Bonsai Shokunin explored character's ideas on Fate and The Divine and how that intersects with immortality and I totally thought that theme would be continued, especially with Love Letters. But Then It Wasn't™.

Admittedly.... I had to re-read this one to remember most of it. I liked Booker's ideas on God, 'The conductor of the symphony just may not be very good at his trade' but the plot itself was kind of forgettable. Some fuckin cowboys try to kill a doctor (their second) because he couldn't save their sickly brother. Book tries to stop them, gets killed, and then comes back and kills them all before they get the doctor. Alright. I liked the artstyle because the characters were ugly in a similar way that leandro's are, but way more bearable.

I love the Irony of Booker concluding that there is no such thing as fate or destiny and nothing has meaning, AS HE UNKNOWINGLY SAVES MERRICK'S GRANDFATHER FROM BEING KILLED. Booker getting fucked over by life/god/destiny yet again. It also kind of explains about where the fuck hell Merrick's interest in immortal mercenaries even came from.

I originally had this one a lot higher and then I thought about it and moved it down like two spots.

8 Never Gets Old

I liked seeing Booker interact with his kid. And we got a name for the kid! Philippe was a little bitch though, he was a little obnoxious. I liked how Booker was so thrilled to experience a restaurant with his kid (and since we know he was there before, it can be assumed he went with all of his kids and yet he was so charmed each time). It fits with his line to Nicky in the moon landing story about how you don't appreciate beautiful things 'unless you have someone to share them with'. It was charming to see Booker interact with his kid, and to see him so happy. Also lmao @ Booker's big fat Ye Olde Crush on Andy.

However at the same time it was like.. of all the things to write about,,, I guess? Booker's Night Out...... alright. Especially since Book had so many stories.

I don't know, it was alright. The old man killing him really came out of nowhere, (but the 'Salut, asshole!' panel was funny tho).

9 How To Make a Ghost Town

I've hit a point where talking about these stories has gotten less fun. I liked this one but I felt like Achilles getting lynched was not really necessary for a story that was already tragic (a story that already involved Achilles doing a lot of suffering at the hand of bigots). When we first got the blurb for this story I thought it would be about Andy returning to the squad and making friends with Booker after losing Achilles and them butting heads on the idea of family and when to cut off ties. So a little bit of my underwhelmedness about this one might be just my expectations being different.

Honestly I was pretty interested in Andy and Achilles' relationship and I would've liked to see more of them-- like, what was their dynamic like? What did they love about each other?

But anyways Andy leaving and Achilles getting killed anyways feels so pointlessly tragic (which I suppose is the point..... I don't like tragedies) she left to save him and yet people killed him anyway. Meh.

I did love the bits about Andy wanting to have a domestic life (Andy and her multitudes again) and the little detail about how she buried her axe near the road but he buried his guns under his bed-- he was an escaped slave, he never had the luxury of assuredness like Andy did. It was a sad story.

10 Lacus Solitudinis

'You put this one above love letters crim??? how could you???' easy, lmao.

There was stuff in this one I liked. But to talk about stuff I didn't like: (I'll keep it brief, I know ragging on this story has been done time and time again)

UH, setting aside the 6 year cold shoulder between Joe and Nicky, I thought their chosen method of conflict resolution was... bad at best. Nicky's inability to talk about his feelings was also annoying, especially since the entire point of this story is a fight Joe and Nicky had, and yet we don't get both sides to the story, which is...... important? That fact is especially annoying bc in the absence of Nicky explaining his side of the story, it's absolutely a possible (and admittedly probably unintentional) interpretation of the text that we do get that Joe routinely resolves conflict between him and Nicky by simply cutting Nicky out of his life entirely until Nicky just. caves? Even if it takes years?

WHICH i could get into that interpretation and how fucked up i find it. but im not going to. out of restraint.

I don't know, I think there are a lot of interesting ways to go about this conflict but 'Nicky wants to kill a guy and Joe refuses to acknowledge his existence until he stops because he thinks Nicky is too much of a Good Boy to get his hands dirty like that' ('I wont watch as the world turns his (...) compassion into something ugly'. ) wasn't.. how I would've done it. (I mean you know Joe doesn't give a shit about what Nicky is doing in a moral way, because Joe doesn't even care or mention that Booker is killing those cops too. Joe only cares because he doesn't like the idea of Nicky changing in a way he finds undesirable.)

admittedly I've said before, I do like the emphasis Joe's reaction puts on Nicky's kindness. Joe has a complete inability to cope with Nicky simply Not Being Kind. It speaks to the steadiness of Nicky's compassion all those years. but still that fact doesn't make it the conflict feel worth it

hm. I said I would be brief and I wasn't.

oh well. basically I thought there was interesting conflict potential there but it wasn't done the way I would've liked, and the way it was done leaves a lot of disturbing (and again probably unintended) interpretations to lie.

What I did like? Andy and Joe having that pessimist/optimist dynamic. Joe nerding out about science. Andy not being impressed by The Achievements Of Man. I loved Booker needling at Nicky about his outdated slang and also trying to give him Older Brother advice practically in the same breath. I loved Booker giving The Worst relationship advice ever and Nicky being like 'I Will Not Do That, Ever, Thanks.' the family vibes were so good. The Joenicky vibes left a lot to be desired tho.

11 Love Letters

I talked about my problems with Nicky in this story (and Lacus Solitudinis). I don't know, the story isn't bad but I do hold a little bit of a grudge towards it because its very existence begs the existence of a solo Joe story and we didn't get one. If we never got this story, then we could happily count Lacus Solitudinis and Zanzibar as The Joenicky Stories™ and move on with our lives. sigh.

I remember when we first got the blurb for this story I was really curious about why Nicky specifically + the setting, and the answer kind of feels like 'the author had an idea for a story like this and saw ttt as a good enough place to utilize that idea'. Plus I was really underwhelmed by the Romantic Sentiment in the letter. If you look at it line-by-line, the majority of the letter is actually Nicky talking about how lonely and disturbed he is, rather than actual,, yknow,,, Romantic Sentiment. I mean, compare the van speech and this letter and this letter is just kind of meh in comparison. I liked nicky calling joe wise! and I liked the brief sun/moon metaphor! and otherwise it was eh. It didn't even have cute squad banter, which is why Lacus Solitudinis is above this one.

12 An Old Soul

Nun orgy. Nun orgy?????? Nun orgy.......

The whole story felt like a setup to have a nun orgy. Why did Booker have abs? Why did they do that to Andy's nose? ?????? the art was good at least.

nun orgy.

#tales through time spoilers #obviously #long post #seriously dont open that read more unless youre committed to scrolling past all these Words

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jojotichakorn · 2 years

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https://twitter.com/petalkiss/status/1482411457983954952?s=21

When I thought it couldn’t get worse one of the writers decides to share this, I mean reading this and taking into consideration pran’s behavior in ep 11 just leaves me even more torn and heartbroken.

Like in the end pat’s always doing everything to please and make pran as “happy” as possible which I can understand to a certain extent and that’s not even the biggest problem here. What I do have a problem with though is that I would have liked to see some growth in their dynamics or at least show them talk about this openly idk it feels like at the end of the day after 11 episodes nothing has really changed.

I read a thousand times that the reason why pran seemed not be as affected by the separation in ep 11 is due to the fact that he accepted the situation from the beginning but even if that was the case I don’t find it acceptable because throughout ep 10 they were desperately trying to find out what happened between their families with the goal of trying to resolve their feud and be together freely but then once they found out the truth they kinda gave up? I know they talk about how pran’s mother will probably never forgive pat’s father but even so that’s it? Idk I expected them to try to do something about it and to fight a little bit for it but we got nothing. Some people may say they didn’t fight it cause they were afraid to be separated once again but if in the end they decide to break up and be away from each other anyways then they might as well have tried to do something about it.

I’m sorry i don’t even know if what I wrote makes sense but something about that tweet just triggered me. (Thank you if you’ve read so far)

[link]

tbh, i kind of saw that coming anyway, like pat was very clearly ready to actually stay there, change his entire life - a lot of moments showcase it. even the moment, where they talk about their futures everyone keeps using as an excuse for what happened. pran actually has a plan (part of that plan is being a musician btw, which his mother would never allow, so again - i don't know why in the world everyone keeps using that scene as an explanation that they need their parents' support), but pat literally says "me? ehh idk, family business i guess?". somehow i seriously fucking doubt that the thing pat truly wants is to take over the family business. the fact is, nothing is keeping him in the city with his family. the only thing he wants is to be with pran. but he doesn't even get that, because he is not the only thing pran wants. which, it is absolutely valid of pran to want many things. it just ends up being a sad situation for pat.

all in all, i think it really comes down to the message bbs is trying to push about biological family. everything makes sense only in the context of pran realizing there is nothing more important than his biological family. i know that - again - some people are pushing the idea that the boys are still heavily dependent on their family (which is not exactly true) or that at the very least they won't be able to do everything they want (kind of true for pran, but then again - he won't be able to do certain things he wants when he comes back to his family, namely being with pat and being a musician, so by that logic he gives up being with pat and being a musician because he also wants to be an architect, which just writing that out it sounds very stupid and is obviously not the case). so yeah, it really isn't about dependency or anything like that. it's about "family is family". it is above everything and anything, no matter what it does.

#archer responds #anon

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dreadwulf · 3 years

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There are definitely dudebros who throw shade at Brienne for going after bad boy hot dude Jaime instead of nice guy Tormund (followed by "whatevs, she deserved to have her heart broken after she rejected tormund"), but I don't think most people who ship Briemund do it because they hate Brienne or see her as a joke. They genuinely believe it's a beautiful relationship. They overrate Tormund, wax lyrical about the looks he gave her and how he lurrves her and sees how beautiful she is deep down and appreciates her for a warrior and a woman (which is debatable! fine...he did give the idea to knight her but mostly he just wanted to have sex with her or talked about her in the context of being a human incubator.)

It's just people seeing what they want to see, while accusing Brienne/Jaime fans of romanticizing the actual heart eyes/romantically coded moments which their tiny brains perceived as "platonic." Don't get me wrong, BT is not the worst ship out there. But damnit, wish people would stop pretending it's not a crackship, or just be honest about wanting Brienne out of the way so they can ship garbage incest. It's okay! I low-key ship Bri/Sandor but I'm not going around saying that it's the best Brienne ship. It's gotten to the point where I wish Tormund didn't exist at all in JB fics... even if it's just to cause romantic tension. The shippers just ruined that dynamic for me. Now, I would've preferred it if they just had a brother-sister relationship because that would've been meaningful at least, instead of random comic relief.

I also couldn't believe that idiot Nikolaj for validating that stinky opinion by saying how BT makes more sense than JB because "Brienne never looked at Jaime with the ~beautiful lust~ that Tormund looked at her" or something (WTF! Brienne also never looked at Tormund like that so what's your point dumbo?) But then again, who cares what that clown thinks... he always contradicts himself just like his character.

To go back to something in your first paragraph: I don’t think that people have to openly hate a character to have these underlying feelings about what they deserve. When people prefer the comic relief “LOL he’s making a lady uncomfortable” romance it is at baseline about wanting to see the woman get taken down a peg, and then rebuild her self esteem around some rando dude who deigns to objectify her. Nobody thinks they’re doing this stuff intentionally, it’s mostly subconscious. It’s the same reason they refuse to take her actual love story seriously, whereas if Brienne looked like Sansa or Danaerys in the exact same storyline, they’d be all over it. There’s a reason they don’t see it, and it’s not a coincidence.

I didn’t hear NCW say any of that, but I pretty quickly stopped listening to anything he said about the show once S8 started airing. My personal read is that he was a little too honest about his feelings in previous seasons, and somebody brought the hammer down to make him change his tune. But who even knows, and ultimately I don’t care too much what anyone to do with the show has to say about ASOIAF considering what they did to it.

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notthatiwilleverwriteit · 4 years

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I don't know if you ever answered something similar but here's my question. Once in a while there's comments saying that he tian is forcing himself on mo, but I think they misunderstand the situation because mo is a tsundere and will always say something like "fuck off" to he tian, even if he cares. So my question is: in your opinion is tianshan still toxic like in the beginning?

Good morning, anon-san!

I have actually talked about Tianshan’s (power) dynamic quite a lot. Here are some previous answers/posts you might find interesting:

Tianshan coming a full circle

My 19 Days OTP

My favorite Tianshan moment

Physical and emotional closeness in Tianshan

Will there ever be a verbal Tianshan confession?

Future of Tianshan

He Tian’s jealousy and possessiveness

Is Tianshan toxic?

The last link on the list probably comes the closest to what you asked, but there was actually something I wish I had included. So, I’ll take a look at your question and also talk about the things I left out. There will be some repetition, though.

“comments saying that he tian is forcing himself on mo”

In my previous answer about Tianshan being toxic, I came to the conclusion that toxicity is in the eye of the beholder. What we see as being toxic depends on our own perspective and individual taste. I don’t think it’s really about misunderstanding but rather reading things through differently tinted lenses and different things appealing to different people. To each of us, the line between “toxic” and “non-toxic” is different. Our tolerance for a certain kind of behavior can differ quite a lot from other readers’ - He Tian’s character and Tianshan being an excellent example.

Tianshan is a certain type of dynamic that often appeals to a lot of people but it will always also have a fair share of anti-fans. So, I doubt there is such a thing as enough development to make the comments about Tianshan being toxic stop. At least not without changing the dynamic fundamentally in which case, it would become something else. As a Tianshan shipper, I wouldn’t want the development ever go in that direction.

However, that doesn’t mean fans should stop listening to each other. I believe people who think Tianshan is toxic can have a lot to add to the discussion. Their points are based on their original perspectives just like ours. Just because we might disagree doesn’t have to mean we can’t learn from each other.

“in your opinion is tianshan still toxic like in the beginning?”

To be honest, I never really saw Tianshan overall as toxic. To me, there isn’t some point in the story prior to which their relationship was toxic and after it was less toxic. Then again, I have quite a high tolerance for behavior that others deem toxic or problematic. I’m usually drawn to those kinds of dynamics in fiction and find them endlessly interesting instead of something that should be get rid of. More often than not, they end up being my jam and OTPs.

But I’ve always wondered what people who see “before” and “after” in Tianshan think has been the defining moment that turned their relationship for the better. Personally, I’m struggling with that since I have never really had a problem with how their dynamic works.

Instead, I see Tianshan’s journey through the development of both He Tian and Mo Guan Shan’s characters. Both of them have gone through some changes but also have some parts that won’t probably ever change and ultimately affect the overall dynamic of their relationship.

Mo Guan Shan has gradually started to trust He Tian more and warm up to him. His walls aren’t as high as in the beginning. He doesn’t want to deny their connection as fiercely anymore. And he even shows more of his “tsun” side towards He Tian. His resistance has become more about getting flustered and being increasingly conscious of He Tian than rejecting him out of resentment.

But. Mo Guan Shan will never not stand up to He Tian and strive for being independent. He will still tell He Tian to go fuck himself and ask if he’s supposed to be that familiar with him. He will always spit that He Tian can’t tell him what to do and that he can’t control him. And that is, in fact, one of the reasons why He Tian admires him. As persistent as He Tian is, Mo Guan Shan will agree to things at his own pace. That is both a warning and a promise.

He Tian, on the other hand, has come to learn Mo Guan Shan’s limits and to be more aware so he can keep earning his trust. The nature of his strength has changed. It’s gone from “you better watch your mouth because you answer to me now” to “I don’t care how long it takes but please don’t leave me”. He Tian’s role as the strong savior and someone honing down Mo Guan Shan’s personality has started to slip. We readers and Mo Guan Shan have seen more and more of his weak moments, fears, and insecurities. He has started to feel safe and secure with Mo Guan Shan. And I suppose all of that is where the usual arguments about the development from “toxic” to “less toxic” stem from.

But. He Tian will never not be pushy and dominant. Even if he doesn’t want Mo Guan Shan to become meek and agreeable, he still won’t let his objections and resistance discourage his affections. He will never be the type that asks for permission for everything. Or even every other thing. He will always keep his arm hooked around Mo Guan Shan’s shoulders despite how much he keeps struggling.

You could see all of that through the lenses of “toxic” but also as two characters developing together. It can be a very subtle difference in perspective, but I think it’s a rather important one.

Some time ago, OldXian gave us part 3 of the Christmas special that takes place in the future. I saw readers being somewhat disappointed that Tianshan hadn’t developed as much as or in the direction they had wished. These two panels especially seemed to dampen the mood a little (ch. 313):

It didn’t seem like they had grown much closer. However, I would say their future relationship is pretty much as I expected it to be. Mo Guan Shan was quick to say no as a knee-jerk reaction but kind of letting He Tian get away with things. He wasn’t putting up quite as fierce of a fight as he would have in the past. He Tian, on the other hand, was still physically dominant and mischevious and yet affectionate. It almost seemed like he was craving for physical closeness.

If you take into account the things I think are fundamental about the characters and will never go away in their relationship, I think the level of development might make more sense. I doubt Mo Guan Shan will ever be honest or open about his feelings towards He Tian. But he will grant us little pieces of subtle, unexpected affection here and there. Little hints that he doesn’t mind He Tian’s company as much as he claims. And in return, He Tian will keep pushing because he knows he’s not truly making Mo Guan Shan do something he really doesn’t want to. But that dynamic is still toxic in the people’s eyes who have always thought so.

Moments that have bothered me

As much as I ship Tianshan, there have been a few moments in their dynamic and development that I have been bothered by. But again, I don’t really see them as being toxic but rather as learning curves of their relationship.

The first kiss (ch. 174):

I have never found this kiss hot or sexy. Actually, He Tian sticking his tongue out like that and shoving it in Mo Guan Shan’s mouth always freaks me out a little. I’m frankly turned off by it. But it served as an important lesson. And I don’t think it made He Tian toxic. He hadn’t meant the kiss the way Mo Guan Shan took it. He was genuinely confused by Mo Guan Shan’s reaction and realized he had crossed a line with him.

Let’s make a run for it (ch. 273):

I know this was a rather minor moment, but the level of disregard by He Tian at the moment has always annoyed me. Mo Guan Shan has responsibilities he’s getting paid for, so he can’t just up and leave according to He Tian’s whims. The world doesn’t work that way. But his life has always been vastly different from Mo Guan Shan’s, so it’s good he’s exposed to different ways of life.

He Tian and people who aren’t Mo Guan Shan (ch. 295):

I doubt He Tian really pays attention to the group around Mo Guan Shan or cares about them. I think that also means he wouldn’t hesitate to be an ass to them if he’s not feeling particularly nice or thinks they’re getting in the way. That trait is what I have always disagreed the most with the thug way of life. Not really caring about people who don’t directly concern you and thinking it’s okay to be over the top offensive if someone happens to wrong you somehow. In society, you don’t have the right to take matters into your own hands and become the judge. And just because He Tian happens to care about Mo Guan Shan the most, it doesn’t entitle him to treat others badly or bark orders like they don’t have a choice but to submit.

I’m not in a good mood (ch. 295):

Kind of a continuation of the previous one. I think this was the most frustrated I have been with He Tian. I know what ultimately made him behave that way and it made sense, but for a while, I was annoyed because it seemed He Tian had regressed back to his old ways. Like dude, the world does not revolve around your moods. Other people have feelings, too. The fact that He Tian doesn’t bow down to anyone is one of my favorite things about him, but the lack of humility can also get a bit annoying at times. He Tian is quite physical when it comes to showing his feelings but I hope he will keep getting better at using his words, too. Luckily, Mo Guan Shan is someone who can take him at his worst.

I’m not trying to make it sound like people who see Tianshan as toxic are somehow wrong or can’t make valid points. As you noticed, even I’ve had certain moments I didn’t agree with. But perhaps because crying “toxic” is so common in fandoms these days and it’s used as a weapon to diss other’s taste in fictional relationships, I somewhat prefer to distance myself from that particular way of looking at things. He Tian and Tianshan most certainly aren’t flawless, but if you take a step back you come to realize toxicity is a surprisingly narrow perspective. It leaves out the characters as a whole by pointing at just certain traits and removing them from their context.

Thank you for your question, dear anon-san!

#tianshan #19 days #He Tian #mo guan shan #answered ask

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