#badger secondary model

[wisteria-lodge]

bird primary + slightly burnt snake secondary (bird model) (burnt-out badger model)

I don't know if this is the correct place to ask this, oh well :). I recently found the SHC community and fell in love with your analysis. (Disclaimer that I may have misinterpreted some of the traits, again, very new at this.)

I am hoping you can help me sort out my secondary. My primary is very obviously a bird, no problem. I mean, I exibit certain chararistics of the others at certain times, such as strongly valuing personal loyalty and such, but I think complexity is just part of being a human and I fit really neatly into almost all of the bird stuff I've read.

and I mean... "strongly valuing personal loyalty" can just, very easily, be something that you fold into your Bird System.

But my secondary is really giving me trouble. But I keep flipping between snake with badger model or burnt badger with snake model. (With others thrown in for flavor!)

For context, I was raised in VERY emphasized badger home. And like, mostly, I agree? Hard work, grit, and consistency ARE extremely important, and while those are not the only way to ever accomplish things, they tend to be the most reliable and the most likely to give long term success. They also tend to build long lasting relationships that are supportive and grow with you over time and not just around one time/phase/stage in life. (Not that those aren't important) I want to be like that- be the reliable hard-working one. But I'm not! I am fairly lazy actually, and am constantly searching for a way around projects/problems, very often to my own detriment.

So okay. We've got some negative self-talk here.

I don't like the word "lazy" - mostly because it's just incredibly non-specific. "Lazy" can mean issues with executive functioning, it can mean I don't think xyz is important, so of course I'll cut corners. It can mean you're exhausted. It can mean you're depressed. It can mean 'if I am not working literally all the time, I'm worthless.' It can mean you're having a fun, goof-off day. See what I mean?

So what this does tell me is 1) You've got a strong Badger secondary voice in your ear, saying that This Is How It Has To Be and 2) that kind of chafes. You're about working around things, working smarter not harder, and getting out of/finishing quickly the things you don't want to do. Which is 100% completely fine! All it means is that you're probably not a Badger secondary!

And while I am very good at lying and do it to get myself out of problems semi-regularly, I feel guilty about it after (not usually in the moment) becuase of my moral system (bird primary).

I'm leaning slightly-burnt Snake here. Healthy Snakes don't usually refer to their shape-changing as "lying," so I'm keeping that in mind.

But being so snake/adaptable does have many benefits, especially in talking/working with others, and I value my ability to change to fit each person or situation. I am also often able to find unique solutions to the problems I caused myself by not doing it "right" the first time.

Definitely sounds like an improvisational secondary, and changing for the person (as opposed to changing for the situation) is very Snake.

My father has a job in the local public eye and I grew up learning how to be able to talk to anyone, act interested in anything, and have a different mask for school, vs public, vs with friends, vs just being me at home.

Sounds like you built an Actor Bird secondary model (and some of that is of course you going into Neutral.

And sometimes I feel guilty for "manipulating" people, as my moral system emphasis honesty, but just as often I pride myself on making people feel good becuase I figured out what they needed/wanted and gave it to them while making it seem like it wasn't a calculated read of the situation.

Snake. And a fairly important part of this system is that "manipulating" is a completely neutral problem-solving technique. You can manipulate people to do good, and manipulate people to do bad, just the same as you can use the Badger dependability and ability to fly under the radar to do good things, and bad things.

Overall, I am grateful for my childhood (truly I've got great parents) and I think it's super important to be able to react well to unexpected circumstances, so much so that when I finish college this spring (we'll get to that in a second) I want to go into disaster response and crisis management to help others deal with unforseen circumstances. I've worked as an EMT, and hopefully soon as a 911 dispatcher before going into formal disaster response.

I think that will suit you perfectly and (as I'm sure you probably know) that's something a Badger secondary would not be nearly as good at.

I'm very comfortable using snake methods and it makes me feel clever when I come up with an unexpected solution or pull off a tricky social maneuver-

This is a big sign this is your secondary - using it makes you feel powerful.

I just feel guilty because they hard-core fail me when it comes to big tasks I simply don't want to do- situations where the only solution is to just get it done the hard way, and trust me, I would have looked for any other options.

Yeah, that's issues with executive functioning surrounding non-preferred tasks.

I see this most often in my schoolwork. I'm a double-major senior and I am definitely burnt out from school.

Don't blame you. Sounds like you bootstrapped your way through on the family Badger secondary model, and now you're sick of using it.

I am a "gifted child," and I have always done very well in school. I've never had to work very hard at any subject, and so I never did. I always procrastinated and slid in 2 minutes before a deadline.

Very, very common story. You're using adrenaline to hack your brain to punch through executive functioning issues, we've all done it, we know it's not sustainable. Same with not having to work hard in school - you're brain's going fast, you're making connections, you're using meta-knowledge (you're using your secondary.)

The difference is that in college I started not caring about deadlines, being very late or not turning something in entirely. I got A's and F's, no in between. I am graduating, mostly due to amazing professors.

You were burnt out. This is what burnout sounds like. But you made it through, and honestly people just care if you graduated, or not.

There have been things in my life that I've worked really hard at, such as becoming an emt while in high school or my internship last summer, and I have felt really proud of that. But I don't enjoy the work for its own sake, and there have been just as many things I've cared about that I let be mediocre at best becuase I didn't want to put in the effort.

And that's fine! There are some things you care about (and you're incredibly accomplished) and there are some things you don't, and what's the problem with that?

And, some of the best feedback I recieved from that internship was that I always was working hard- and seemed positive about it. When I told them I have to "work hard to work hard" they were shocked and I felt very happy. For 2 reasons: 1, becuase I did actually put in a lot of work to work hard and it showed me that I can when I truly want to (I was starting to doubt), and 2, that they perceived me like that.

I'm guessing it also felt good because there's a large part of you that sees Badger as "the good one."

There's a slightly annoying thing about being human, that gets into the sunk-cost fallacy and things like that, that things we put a lot of effort into are inherently better, or more valuable. But it's just not true. Often the thing that's so easy it doesn't feel like work, the story or painting that just came together, *is better* than the one you slaved and sweat and bled over.

Also, I've been diagnosed with depression and anxiety, probably stemming back from before high school (it's strongly in family history, inevitable more than circumstancial), so how much of that overshadows my personality?

I mean, I think your personality comes through loud and clear. Just stop describing yourself as "lazy" okay?

To make things more complicated I love learning and picking up random bits of information, and I love trying new things. My nickname was Wikipedia in high school becuase I could always be relied upon to have some cursory knowledge about anything, though not always the helpful knowledge. (Bird vibes) I do that for the fun of it though, and it doesn't tend to be the basis of how I make decisions or react to situations.

We know you built a Bird model, so it's good that you can use it as a toy.

So what is going on here? Am I a burnt out badger who needs to not be in the school system for a while to reset and be able to dedicate myself to the things I love, and who uses snake mechanisms to cover my weak spots becuase I got good at that in childhood

You can burn out models. It's pretty common, and it's the puzzle piece you're missing here. You are a Snake. You model Badger when you have to. But because it IS hard, use it too much and it burns out and starts to hurt to use.

At which point you fall back on your Snake secondary and Actor Bird model. Don't worry. You made it through the tough times, and your new situation seems much better suited to your Snake.

Or am I a snake who strongly values badger traits but needs to figure out how to blend them? (And how do I do that?) And also go back to therapy? What's bird doing in there, anyway? I think I'm leaning option two, but like I said- I'm very flip-floppy about the whole thing.

Thank you so much- sorry it got so long. (Imagine if I were confused about my primary too!)

Hey, therapy is fantastic, but it sounds to me like you're doing pretty okay. :)

thanks @adisgracetotheforcesofevil for the submission

#shc #sortinghatchats #wisteria sorts #sortme #bird snake #snake secondary #bird secondary model #badger secondary model

[mooglesorts]

i have not been active on this blog in a While and being very normal about my old hyperfixation lorien legacies, which has an absolute fuckload of characters to sort, has finally gotten me to crawl out of my hole.

[spoilers ahead for both lorien legacies and its sequel series!]

there is a LOT of ground to cover here, and i am mostly going to limit myself to sorting characters and themes from the first series, but my initial notes are:

probably one of the biggest overarching themes of the series is toxic birdsec, and the harm it can do to every aspect of a society or a person's life--on both a systematic level and an individual one--right down to their basic humanity. by extension it also goes into similarly fucked up lion and bird primary used as weapons and tools of abuse, and how they interplay with each other.

a large part of this stems from setrákus ra being The Worst Fucking Lion Bird Ever to Live, lmao. he's an interesting example of birdsec interplaying with cannibal badger, and also of a lion bird who's a cheetah in that he uses systems as tools to manipulate people instead of actually believing them. he hands out toxic systems like candy while peppering them with outright lies, and blithely admits that even the one that he's put centuries into building--mogadorian progress, and the great book--is at its heart just a ruse to run his cult on. the truth he pretends to worship and champion isn't external, objective truth--it's an extension of him. he is the ultimate truth. and the only truth he believes in is his cause, which is that he has the right and ability to own, make use of, and do whatever he sees fit with everything in existence. everyone and everything that could possibly be a shiny or a tool belongs to him.

one of the other overarching themes is toxic badger primary and secondary--cannibal badgering AHOY--as well as toxic lion primary, and it is a great deal less intentional than the bird cautionary tale part lmao

five is a bird snake with deeply toxic lion primary and bird secondary models, one of which he picked up after getting involved with a cult, and one of which he's had since his abusive birdsec guardian started amputating his masks by trying to apply actor bird to them. :') his brand of birdsplode and snakeburn make him horribly, horribly vulnerable to the cult, especially combined with focused, one-on-one gaslighting and manipulation from setrákus himself, and he has to burn his bird right to a crisp to break away from it. i am very biased and i have so much to say about my boy, but i plan to go in depth about this later

there are a LOT of lionsecs among the loric garde kids. the only surviving ones who aren't lionsecs are marina's badger and five's snake (the latter of which is heavily villainized, lol); number one is either a lionsec or a snakesec, maggie is either a birdsec or a badgersec, and we don't really see enough of hannu to be sure, but my guess is badgersec. in context, whatever these books are saying here i am not sure i like it lmao

this stands in contrast to the non-garde allies, minus adam, who end up being Part of the Gang. sam and lexa are birdsecs, and sarah and malcolm are both badgersecs.

speaking of adam, he is a lion snake with a cool, calculated double bird performance/model, who has been waiting all his life for a chance to go Absolutely Feral. there are a lot of ways in which he's a real shithead, which track given his life and circumstances up to then but are also real 😬 sometimes, but like, good for him. go ape shitt, kid

nine is an awful, AWFUL double lion who models/performs the worst parts of badger primary; he also uses lionsec stereotypes and methods to misdirect people, so that he can hurt, gaslight, prey on, and abuse them. it's genuinely interesting how he does it, and i could go on for a long time about it, but it's also Infuriating because the authors really want you to love him for being a ~charming jerk with a heart of gold,~ so that is for another post. in the sequel series he also picks up a nasty posthumous birdsec model from sandor to gleefully torture children with so lmfao

there seem to be a lot of birdsecs and badgersecs among the mentor cêpans, which tracks, because, well, mentors. interestingly, it seems to be a pattern so far that the birdsec mentors are either some of the most deeply abusive among them (see: rey, sandor, and ethan even though he's an unofficial cêpan), or the most decent parents of them under the circumstances (see: katarina).

john is a hognose (badgery snake) 'i live here' snake lion, and a VERY loud one. he's set on saving the world mainly a) in order to save his People, or b) because it's what they would want. he also believes STRONGLY in snake values as applied to other people, and absolutely cannot grok that anyone would feel differently--he holds back on killing a major enemy because he's worried about killing a friendly acquaintance's Person--and honestly he can be kind of a huge dick about it lmao. he burns HARD at the end of the first series when sarah dies; in the second, he copes by making an entire community into his circle and no longer gives a shit about the rest of the world outside it, including groups who are in similar if not worse circumstances than his community. Horrific War Crimes Ensue!

rex is an everyone double badger and i love him so much. i love him So Much. he is a wonderful example of how to write a morally dubious character whose dodgy qualities interest me instead of making me grit my teeth and Tolerate Them. his arc could have fixed So Much of the Ending's Bullshit and i will be forever mad that they dumped it in the trash

there is more, oh my god there's so much more, this series has SO many characters in it, but this is a start thank you for coming to my ted talk

#lorien legacies #sortinghatchats #sorting hat chats #LL group tag #lion primary #bird primary #snake primary #bird secondary #lion secondary #badger secondary #snake secondary #bird primary model #bird secondary model #badger primary model #hognose #cheetah #superb bird #manul #toxic primaries #toxic secondaries #there is a lot going on here lmao #LL tag

[ten-of-imps]

I pretend to be a double Badger at work. I like it. I get to be nice and kind, and avoid conflicts and appear hard working and responsible. I bet there are people who know that something is up, who can smell bs, but why would they investigate?

I'm not responsible, I'm just working and trying to do my job and not leave crumbs all over my place for problems to arise. But I'm nowhere near the double Badger people perceive me as.

I think one person maybe sees me as a bird primary, and the other might suspect there's a snake under my badger models. But they're a snake, and I think that's a good way to be liked by them. They heard me once talking with my family, I bet they heard a completely different person.

Some don't care if what I present is actually me, they accept the models and what flashes underneath it.

But the most interesting thing is, as I don't need to worry and be in a survival mode that much, shifting and changing, turning the volume down is a lovely way to spend my day. I can adapt according to how I want it and see it, I don't need to adapt out of fear that much.

For some time I thought I was a badger, and I started to unburn in a new community, but am I, really?

#Double Badger model #sortinghatchats #Ten rants #Badger primary #badger secondary #Models #Badger primary model

[mysticalenthusiastvoid]

I'm going to sort my family from most recently dead to furthest.

Grandma - Badger Snake. I thought maybe she was a double Badger, but I think she modeled Badger sec because it was expected of her, but she was traditional and involved in her church community, so Badger primary. I say she was a Snake secondary due to her general mischeviousness, go with the flow attitude, and doing things like once tricking me into getting a flu shot by paying for two.

Mom - Double Bird or Bird Badger. Would do a deep dive on any subject she found interesting and once she decided that something was true, good luck changing her mind. She could possibly have been a Badger sec due to building communities wherever she went. Used to clash with her a fair amount, but she also could have been a burnt Lion primary.

Grandpa - This one is the hardest due to him being gone for so long, but he could be the double Badger out of the bunch. Also community oriented.

#snake secondary #bird secondary #badger secondary #badger model #idealist primary #built secondaries #external primaries #no wonder i clashed with my family when i got older and started to come out of my bubble

[the-phoenix-heart]

Sorting Hat Chats - Titanic (1997)

I watched Titanic twice in two days and this is the result of that. I finally remembered that I make these types of posts.

Here is a summary of the system I am using (credit: @wisteria-lodge ) and because it has been a long time let the record show: Fuck JKR, I do not support her view at all.

The movie is ROSE'S story, not actually Rose and Jack's story. The thing with it is while Jack is integral to the plot, what matters is that he exists and he saved her. He doesn't go through an arc. This is Rose's story, and it is of her self actualization.

Rose says she knows exactly how her life is going to play out, and we can see she hates it. Even before she has met Jack she is subtly rebelling against her mother and Cal. She hates the bird primary model she wears, the one that has all the rules that define her life.

The real Rose, the one that isn't stifled under the weight of high society, is a Lion primary. When she is herself she smokes, drinks more than Jack, competes with the big strong Swedish man, flips off Cal's valet, and is extremely horny.

She is a lion primary. She wishes to do what she feels is right. On the Titanic her 'cause' is "say fuck you to high society and abscond with my manic pixie dream Leonardo DiCaprio." Then after the iceberg hits it becomes "save Jack at all costs and also other people I come across." Jack getting arrested for stealing the diamond is because she felt an obligation to tell her mother and Cal about the iceberg.

When she is telling Jack why she came back to save him, asking how she figured he didn't steal, she says "I didn't. I just realized I already knew."

As for her secondary, we are introduced to her as she is doing pottery. Then we are introduced to her a second time with her comparing the Titanic to the Mauritania. Rose Dewitt Bukater is a Bird secondary.

Rose knows things. We see her as an old woman and see she travels with her pictures that she has collected. Young Rose collects paintings that she likes and clearly has a taste for fine art. She insults Ismay by bringing up Freud. She knows everything about the people in high society around her, though she clearly doesn't like them. She has jack teaching her things. She knows what ice fishing and did ballet. She becomes an actress. And she knows how every interaction will go when it comes to High Society, as well as different languages.

I debated her being a Lion secondary because in the third act she looks like one, wielding an axe and jumping off boats and pushing people up against walls saying she is through with being polite. But I think in a disaster scenario anyone will look like Lion secondary. Plus, when she is half frozen to death she gets the attention of the boat by taking the whistle of the man she had seen blowing it before. An observation paying off.

JACK DAWSON was an interesting case to sort. I don't know if this is a hot take, but I think Jack is a Badger primary. Jack cares about people. Within two days of being on the ship he already knows the name of a random little girl on the ship (Cora) and calls her his favorite girl. He learns people's names quickly is incredibly affable with them. The way he talks about the one legged prostitute or the woman who wore all her jewels, he remembered them. He's barely been in his cabin with the Swedish guys for one minute and he's already treating them like his best friends.

I think it really is summed up with the scene on Titanic as it departs.

Jack, waving to the people: "Goodbye!" Fabrizio: "You know somebody?" Jack: "Of course not, that's not the point!"

Fabrizio joins in on saying goodbye after Jack. For Jack saying goodbye was either because he was saying goodbye to England, or because everybody was waving goodbye and he wanted to join in on the activity.

I think it's also clear when he saves Rose. He has only seen this girl once from a distance, but when he sees her about to throw herself off the ship he is immediately ready to save her. He's too involved now.

But he doesn't have to jump in and rescue her. Because he talks her out of it. He tells her about an experience he had falling into cold water, and clearly makes it seem like he's ready to jump in after her. He's already taking his coat and shoes off to jump in. His strategy seems to be, "if I can't convince her to save herself I can convince her to save me."

I think he's a Snake secondary. He immediately blends into high society by mimicking the mannerisms of the people around him and by playing himself so incredibly confident in his meager origins that they are charmed by him. There's also the seen wear he disguises himself so he can get a chance to talk to Rose. He also is clearly at home playing poker and has a good poker face.

He almost comes off as a Bird secondary because he knows so much stuff, but he makes it clear that he doesn't have a plan, he kinda just goes wear he goes living day to day. So I think that his grab bag of skills is literally just things he has picked up from day to day life.

I think the Badger Snake sorting works as shorthand for telling you what you need to know about him. He's sexy and fun because he's a Snake secondary, but also worldly and kind because he's a Badger primary.

And last but least I want to talk about is CALEDON HOCKLEY. Because even though he is a very simple character I also think he's a very interesting one. Because Caledon Hockley is destroyed by love. Or obsession. Or possession. It's hard to tell with him. They could have played him as just the greedy asshole in it for money, but he's not just that. He also appears to genuinely loves Rose, he just happens to be an absolute fucking asshole! He seeks to control every aspect of her life, because he loves her and is obsessed with her and wants to possess her, even when she is constantly rebelling against him.

Even after he has slapped her and she has told him she would rather be Jack's whore than Cal's wife he has his valet trying to find her and tries to make sure that she gets on a lifeboat. He even lies and says he'll get Jack on a lifeboat as well so long as Rose gets on one. And EVEN AFTER he tries to kill her for running off with Jack he goes looking for her after they are on the Carpathia. He might've been looking to get the diamond but with how melancholic he looks it seems more like he wanted to see she was alive. I think part of that is Billy Zane.

He says it himself, "There's nothing I'd deny you, if you would not deny me."

(Cal should take notes from the Goblin King's speech to Sarah in Labyrinth)

So he is an exploded Snake primary. As for his secondary, it would be easy to say Lion secondary. He is very violent, shooting at Rose and Jack (which he is very bad at), breaking things, and slapping Rose around. But that's when he's pissed. Throughout the movie the way he does things is much more subtle. He takes out Rose's cigarette and orders her food for her. He turns off the music box she was listening to. He pretends he has been robbed so he can from Jack for it. He gets his valet to do most of his dirty work and he bribes people with things. When his bribery has failed and he's separated from his valet he doesn't go in with punching people, he grabs the screaming Irish girl he saw earlier and says he has a child and has to be let on. He's a badger secondary. A dark one, but a badger.

So...

Rose Dewitt Bukater - Lion primary, Bird primary model that defines her life that she hates/Bird secondary

Jack Dawson - Badger primary/Snake secondary

Caledon Hockley - Exploded Snake primary/Badger secondary

#titanic #titanic 1997 #jack dawson #rose dewitt bukater #caledon hockley #sorting hat chats #sortinghatchats

[reading-sometimes]

Equestria Girls: Rainbow Rocks SHC Sorting

This is part 2 of a 4-part series. An explanation of the SHC system by @wisteria-lodge is here.

Sunset: Badger Lion

This movie is about Sunset learning how to unburn her Badger primary. It's pretty hard for her, since she feels like she's not part of any group in the first place. Almost everyone in the school hates her because she bullied them for years. She's not a part of the band, while every other member of her friend group is. Everyone in her friend group keeps bringing up how she turned into a demon, describing her demon form as horrifyingly awful. When the new students hate her, she assumes that it was because of something that she did, which would be pretty painful to a Badger primary like Sunset.

She uses her Badger primary pretty well, though. She volunteers to show new students around the school, so that they can know the new her before they heard stories about how she was before she was redeemed. She kept a book that let her contact Princess Celestia, because deep down, she knew that running away from her was a mistake. Eventually, she joins the band. She unburns her Badger primary as the school forgives her, and she feels more like part of a group.

It almost seems like Sunset has a Bird primary model, since she talks about how she's changed completely as a person. It's caused by her dropping her Glory Hound Lion primary model, though. Sunset's Lion secondary primarily appears in her temper and impulsivity, just like how it did in the first movie.

Twilight: Double Bird

When Twilight can't figure out how to defeat the villains, she immediately assumes that it's all her fault. Everyone expects Twilight to fix everything, so the pressure feels suffocating.

Sunset and Twilight have a nice conversation about how everyone expects them to be something that they're not (Twilight, because everyone sees her as someone who can do everything perfectly, and Sunset, who everyone sees as still being a delinquent). They both don't want to let anyone down. Twilight wants to live up to everyone's perceptions of her, but she's trying to be something that doesn't exist. It's caused by her perfectionism, but also because everyone assumes that she's a Badger primary, even though she's not. Her Badger primary model starts to explode here, and it gets worse throughout the series.

She ties her self-worth to bringing value to her friends, and when she can't do that, she falls apart. “But why wasn't it working? I should know what to do. How could I not know what to do? How could I have failed like this?”

Sunset helps Twilight by saying that no one can do anything alone, and that she needs to rely on her friends. Because this is a Badger primary show, Twilight's Badger primary model is treated as a good thing, even when it causes problems.

#eqg #equestria girls #sunset shimmer #twilight sparkle #shc #sortinghatchats

[k-she-rambles]

since I'm on a temeraire kick...sortinghatchats thoughts!

Laurence: Gryffindor/Hufflepuff with an incredibly strong Bird Primary model. Behaves like a Burned Lion --possibly a deeply underdeveloped one?

Temeraire: Slytherin/Ravenclaw (with a Lion Primary model?)

Granby: Slytherin/Hufflepuff

Tharkay: Ravenclaw/Slytherin, mirroring Temeraire. (not totally certain about his primary)

Jane Roland: Double Snake (aviators tend towards snake it seems

Bonus Rankin my Beloathed: double badger

Laurence analysis under the cut:

• first instinct for Lawrence was Ravenclaw/Gryffindor. I thought 'that man will be himself if it kills him' (ran away twice to join the navy), a sure sign of a Lion Secondary, and he relies heavily on Structures of right and wrong, a Bird Primary trait.

But then I thought about it. Bird Primaries are relatively okay with what they believe in being disproved. They don't like it, but if they find they have to modify or replace some of the moral or philosophical structures they rely on, they're going to be glad to have learned better much sooner than another Primary would.

Lion Primaries though...they carry their beliefs deep in their hearts, and attacks on those beliefs feel, to them, like attacks on their hearts. When Laurence discovers that something he believes is morally wrong, the most positive reaction he ever has is grief. To truly excise something rotten that Laurence believes, you have to cut him open.

As for the good, he feels incredibly guilty for abandoning his Bird structures, but not as guilty as he does when he realizes he's not doing what he knows in his heart to be right.

With his secondary, it's not so much that Laurence will be himself if it kills him, but that he believes in Showing Up no matter what. He's going to be there doing something, no matter where "there" is--he holds himself and those around him to that standard. That's Badger Sec! As a result, Badger Secondaries tend to attract people resources --both allies and enemies. Badgers do this mostly without noticing. If that's not Laurence...

#temeraire #sortinghatchats #meta

[writing-whump]

Character meta - Sortinghatschats

Based on the sortinghatschats system that describes the why and the how of characters and is the best personality system I know. For more info check out @wisteria-lodge and @sortinghatchats

Isaiah

Isaiah Wolfson is a bird primary. No other primary is this good in designing a completely new personality to go with a new system and this is exactly what Isaiah did, when he left his family at 18. He was eager too follow his father's system, his pack's system, until he witnessed it falling down. He saw the worst from his father, the double face, the masks, the paranoia and control, the abuse. Isaiah saw him at his lowest and he covered for him, cause he didn't want his brothers to know.

This brought him an existential crisis though. Cause obviously his father's system was flawed and so was his. Leaving gave him space to find himself, or rather, to completely rebuild himself. He gathered information. Studied psychology to learn more about the human psyche, to understand his own issues, his own confusion. And then it built into fascination. He got new role models, new work, new thoughts and figured out new codes for himself to live by. To be someone he can be proud of.

This new system led him to really embrace his badger secondary. Very untypical for a wolves, who like to posture, who need to have clear power ranks before they are capable of functioning in one room with others, who have their insistent shadows reflecting their deepest desires, raw, ruthless and always, no matter the rationality of it.

But Isaiah's method is caretaking. He bonds with people, offers help, considers their needs, remembers names. He bonds and community builds, throwing himself at young wolves, problematic cases. Seeing a person, he can't help but be kind and considerate. This is something he can only afford because of how insanely powerful and well-trained his shadow is. He gets respect for his power and skill - and that's how he gets away with acting out for character. Being polite, nice and kind, because he wants to. Because he can put people in place if they take it as a weakness.

His emphasis on politeness and good manners, on being gallant and well-dressed, orderly and systematic are all expressions of his smooth courtier badger wanting to be respectful and pleasant to people. And it works, cause man, this guy has contacts. He knows someone, who knows someone, who will help out. He doesn't live in packs or whole communities, he doesn't need it, but when he starts calling in for favours, the city bend itself over for him to fulfill his wish.

It's ironic Isaiah got to deal with an abusive exploded lion badger (his goal of keeping the pack strong is everything and he is willing to sacrifice everyone for it with a very sly badger secondary including the general opinion in his favour) for a father and a glory hound lion for a brother, only to meet and fall for Seline. Seline Silverstein, a proud loud lion primary.

There is steady certainty in how she trusts her instincts, her gut decisions and feelings. She doesn't do anything she absolutely doesn't want to do, following her dream as a cultural studies student and researcher at the university. She believes in being responsible for your own happiness, she has a clear goal and purpose and follows it.

Her outspoken morals, her inability to be silent, the need to provoke and challenge people when something doesn't feel right get her into trouble frequently. True to her primary she is very willing to go against the flow, her friends, people around her. Society won't pressure her away from what she feels is right and she backs it up with research. And she isn't loyal to people or sides either, she follows thoughts. Idealist to the core.

So when the family situation with her brother being a spoiled little brat as a wolf and using his puberty and wolf shadow as excuses made the situation unbearable, she didn't have qualms to move out. She isn't sorry to not belong in any witch coven or wolf pack, if they can't lower their pressure of her being a nice, soothing little witch. The classic role would be a very gentle, caring, tolerant female to calm the wolf tempers in the pack. Thanks, but no thanks. And even though this provokes and irritates the wolf society around her, she values her independence and he beliefs too much to back out.

The lion sometimes gets covered by a very strong and passionate bird secondary though. Seline researches, plans, strategizes and analyses. She is a prepper for all kinds of situations. The tendency to prepare is too much at times, the way she researchers every new skill, verifies information, reads herself into discourses before getting onto something.

Very fitting little bird secondary for her research work. A lion goal and determination followed by a meticulously prepared bird? She is a force to be reconed with, no matter her gentle sweet appearance.

Now as for the pairing, Seline is very attracted to Isaiah's thought out intellectual bird thinking. Isaiah has everything reasoned out, overexplains his tiniest beliefs and habits and Seline digs that stuff. She just loves to reason and think and she likes to back her feelings with clear evidence and eloquent thoughts and loads of reseach, true to her bird secondary. Bird Isaiah is an ideal intellectual sparring partner for her.

Matthew Blackwell has a very straightforward snake lion sorting. The lion secondary is very loud and direct, goes with his tough guy persona and angry wolf image. He has his temper issues and a very blood knight kind of passion for fighting. It's just fun for him, like a sport or a game. Getting into boxing and running really helped him find a good outlet for it instead of just causing him trouble.

The snake is more subdued and living in a rather neutral zone. Matthew didn't have people in his corner for a long time, and with no snake circle he relief on his agressive lion instead. Finding Isaiah, befriending Seline, getting a sort of maybe pack with them was a key moment for him. Now his snake is adopting people and though he is sometimes awkward in caring for them as well as he would like out of sheer inexperience, he is getting there. Maybe even on the way to built a useful badger secondary model for the caretaking required around his people who are strong and yet havr vulnerbilitied he can cover for.

And Matthew is a sweet marshmallow inside who will put his people above everything. He is the only loyalist in the trio, with Isaiah and Seline being idealists. As long as he fits Seline's felt goals and Isaiah's built system of how the world works, it's a stable combination.

Hector Wolfson is a double lion. Very intense sorting. His lion primary has a very Badger like flavour, influence of how he had been brought up in the pack. Duty, greater good of the whole, community. He accepts and tries to follow this, but inside he is a loud glory hound lion in it for himself, for acknowledgement of his strength, his leadership, him being the best.

Hector struggled with the idea that as the second oldest brother Isaiah had a stronger claim to succeed their father for the leadership of the pack than him. Not to mention that catching up to Isaiah was difficult on its own, but Hector never stopped trying. He worked his butt off in training, control, education. For how arrogant, ambitious and self-centered he is, there is lots of hard work, skill and determination to back him up. Lion willpower, let me tell you.

Hector never recovered from Isaiah abandoning what he considered his greatest goal and honour. Isaiah basically spit on what had been unfairly handed to him by leaving the pack instead of leading it. Hector should be happy about this, now he will most likely be the successor. Except Isaiah's reasoning doesn't make sense and Hector now never got to defeat him in a fair fight. He will never be able to prove he was better and more suited, when Isaiah doesn't consider his life long goal worth the fight. It angers him to no end.

Add to this the lion secondary that likes to power through, kick down doors, burn down bridges and say everything directly...not effective in schemer politics of the wolves, but very much so in getting respect and recognition for power and posturing alone. Wolves respect him. Not to mention his double lion has a very inspiring leadership quality to it. Lions are intense, loud and easy to make people follow them.

At the same time his lion secondary isn't destructive or aggressive to the point he couldn't fulfill his obligations. At civilised wolf parties and strategic meetings, Hector can keep his cool and insult people in a very polite measured manner no one can dispute. He cuts the pleasantries and talks around it short and gets things moving. No-one said lions couldn't be polite. They are just very direct and no nonsense about it.

By the way, his second in the pack, Delaney, shares the double lion sorting. Idealistic, goal-oriented, steady in her determination and very on par with Hector's direct approach.

The Wolfson trio (Hector has brown eyes though) is rounded up by a double snake youngest brother. Arnold "Arnie" Wolfson really got an unfortunate hand. A human brother in the family, he wasn't interesting for his father's ambitions and was left out of lot of the wolf pack business and power struggles.

Arnie has that air of shameless self-worth and self-interest of a young snake though. He likes fun, joy and the pretty things in life. He is here to enjoy himself. And he doesn't care about politics. The most he cares about other than himself is his tiny circle. The pack doesn't matter to him as a whole, he doesn't feel obliged to it. Isaiah and Hector are his people, and he wants them back and nice to each other. That's it. Where Hector can't forgive Isaiah for betraying their common goal and can't move past this to try to understand or figure out his mysteries, Arnie just longs to get back to his brother and reconcile. Isaiah can betray them or leave them or do incomprehensible stuff for wolf standards, but he is Arnie's person so he will be forgiven and given the benefit of the doubt. Arnie, in contrast to Hector, wants to understand, wants to find out, wants to get along.

His secondary is a playful snake. Arnie likes to tease, lie, push and change strategies in the middle if they don't work. Silver-tounged with mischief in his eyes, he enjoys the freedom of his humanity. He might not matter for the wolves, but he knows them and their etiquette enough to play at whatever situation to turn it in his favour. While wolves are busy figuring out ranks and fighting off their shadows, he will design the positions and talks to support his agenda. Quick on his feet and sneaky and very much enjoys it. Sonny Carter is a double snake as well - it's just very handy for charming behind the scene schemers.

Isaiah - Bird/Badger

Seline - Lion/Bird

Matthew - Snake/Lion with a Badger model on the way

Hector - Lion/Lion

Arnie - Snake/Snake

Delaney - Lion/Lion

Sonny - Snake/Snake

Caleb - Lion/Snake

Mr Wolfson - exploded Lion/Badger

#sortinghatschats #character meta #oc development #my ocs #werewolf story #meta

[shadow-academic]

Sorting Jesus Christ Superstar

Happy Easter, everybody! It’s been way too long since I did one of these, but I’ve got my favorite piece of Easter media on the brain (and on the phonograph). So! Let’s Sort Jesus Christ Superstar!

A more detailed break-down of the system I’m using is right here, but the basics are these:

PRIMARY (ie MOTIVE)

BADGER ~ Loyal to the group.

SNAKE ~ Loyal to yourself and your Important People.

LION ~ Subconscious Idealist. Ideals are linked to feelings and instincts.

BIRD ~ Conscious Idealist. Ideals are linked to built systems and external facts.

SECONDARY (ie METHOD)

BADGER ~ Connect with the group. Make allies, work steadily and well. Be whatever the situation calls for. If you find a locked door, knock.

SNAKE ~ Connect with the environment. Notice things. Tell people what they want to hear. If you find a locked door, get in through the window.

BIRD ~ Collect skills, knowledge, personas, useful friends. If you find a locked door, track down the key or try to pick the lock.

LION ~ Be honest, be direct, speak your truth. Either the obstacle is going down or you are. If you find a locked door, kick it in.

Jesus Christ is very definitely a Lion secondary. He knows What Must Be Done, and he knows that What Must Be Done requires him to die, and he unflinchingly and unwaveringly keeps moving toward that end goal despite the Apostles trying to defend him and Pilate (this musical's resident Snake secondary) desperately trying to find an alternative solution, any alternative solution, that won't require Jesus to die.

For his Primary, I was leaning Lion up until we reached "Trial Before Pilate" (my favorite number in the whole musical, by the way). During his debate with Pilate, Jesus says "I search for Truth, and find that I get damned!", and that is not only a very Bird sentiment, but it's a Bird who's burning.

Judas Iscariot, by contrast, is a Bird secondary. He's Jesus's tactician, his planner. To quote "Superstar" (the number you're most likely to have heard): "Every time I look at you, I don't understand Why you let the things you did get so out of hand You'd've managed better if you'd had this planned"

Judas's primary is trickier. I'm certain it's not Snake, because even though Jesus is his best friend, he still sells Jesus out when he thinks it's necessary for the greater good. His primary is either Badger, because his main focus is on the health and safety of the community, or he's a Bird whose Truth just happens to look very Badgery. I think he's actually another Bird primary whose system is modeled strongly after Jesus's own very Badger-looking early ministry, but Jesus has that direct-line connection to God which gives him additional context for his mission of dying for the sins of the people and all that. Judas lacks this context and is growing away from Jesus because he thinks Jesus is losing his way. That growing disconnect ends up with both of them burning their primaries at least somewhat.

I think Judas also had to build a Snake secondary model as a survival tactic against the Roman occupation, and it's this model that he's drawing on when he turns Jesus in, but you can tell it's not his real secondary because it really doesn't sit well with him, even as he's doing it.

Pontius Pilate is this musical's resident Snake secondary. Caiaphas wants Jesus to die for the good of the community, Jesus wants to die because of prophecy stuff, but it's in Pilate's hands and Pilate really doesn't want to kill this guy, so he spends his whole big number trying to find an alternative, any alternative, ultimately only giving up in the face of Jesus's uncooperative and unwavering Lion secondary.

I think he's a Lion primary; he doesn't want to kill Jesus because it really feels wrong to him, but at the same time he really doesn't seem like a "for the people" Badger primary.

Mary Magdalene has a very nurturing Badger secondary for sure. I'm inclined to sort her as a Snake/Badger, if only because it's the Lover sorting; where Jesus and Judas are arguing over how best to care for their flock as a whole, Mary Magdalene is the only one who's specifically looking after Jesus the person, where everyone else is looking to Jesus as a leader, messiah, whatever.

Caiaphas, the nearest thing this musical has to a real antagonist, is definitely a Bird secondary; his primary is trickier for the same reason that Judas's was. His goal is to prevent the genocide of the Jews by not provoking the Romans, but the question is, is he a Badger looking out for his community, or some flavor of Idealist looking out for the bigger picture of the Jewish nation? It's tricky. Only thing I'm sure he's not is a Snake primary, because he definitely does have that bigger-picture focus.

Simon Zealotes only gets one number, but he’s a fairly straightforward (and dumb) Revolutionary Double Lion.

Peter and Herod aren’t there for long enough to really get a handle on, but in summary:

Jesus Christ, Bird/Lion (burned primary) Judas Iscariot, Double Bird (Badger Truth, burning primary, Snake secondary model Pontius Pilate, Lion/Snake Mary Magdalene, Snake/Badger Caiaphas, Badger/Bird Simon Zealotes, Double Lion

#sorting hat chats #shc #jesus christ superstar #jesus #judas #jesus christ #judas iscariot #pontius pilate #mary magdalene #pilate #caiaphas #simon zealotes

[amai-no-ura]

Akatsuki no Yona Typing Redone: Yona

Since I just rewatched the anime and I'm rereading the manga. I think I should update the typing. I have learned a lot more after my first sorting. While it's mostly the same, I will give each character more detailed analysis so each character will get one post dedicated to them alone. And other minor characters will be posted together in a 'bonus' post.

Let's start with our titular protagonist - Yona.

Yona

Typing: ENFJ 1w2 sp/so

Sorting: Snake primary (Badger model) and Lion secondary (Badger model)

Our beloved Yona. This is the character I resonated with the most out of all other characters. I totally understand her 'I need to be stronger' and 'I want to protect people dearest to me, even if I have to risk my life' and she is just a breath of fresh air for me. But that's not the point. Yona started off as a naïve, airy-fairy princess ignorant of the world around her. But that was her immaturity (she was raised sheltered, spoiled and never having to do anything in her life). It could be said that her personality starts to really develop after she got driven out of the castle.

She is Fe-dom, her emotions are immediate and upfront. Whenever she feels something, she says it out loud. But she also knows how to say it in a way that's appropriate to the situation. She is an organizer (EJs) but she doesn't do it through systems and logic like Yoon (ESTJ) does. Instead she does it through emotional motivation and finding consensus. Yona bonds herself very readily to the people around her and usually prioritize others feelings first in every single one of her decisions. She rages for them. She fights for them. Their pain is her pain and their grief is her grief. It's Fe that allows her to understand the pain of everyone around her and how she would want it to be better (Fe-Ni + enneagram 1).

She also knows exactly what to say to get under the skin of just about everyone. She knows exactly what to say to Seiryuu villagers and to Sinha. She intuitively knows that Sinha isn't dangerous and there is no reason to fear him. She knows his pain and what he has been through and she knows 'his soul'. All that based on very little information (his hand is warm and Ao loves him). That is very Ni.

Afterward, she knows exactly what Sinha needs to hear the most 'You are not destructive'. That sentence alone addresses all the trauma he has been through. And Yona just casually knows it and says exactly that. Yona is also occasionally heavily symbolic (comparing Sinha to the moon and Zeno to the sun) and keeps bigger picture in mind at all time. She is also very reckless and opportunistic. She shows heavy use of Se a lot but her Se is still pretty weak (doesn't know her limit and needs to be reminded by sensors around her to stop). It's her Ni-Se that allows her to sense that something is happening in Awa (people smiles feel fake - something even Yoon doesn't notice) and later when Li Hazara was about to invade Kouka.

Yona is driven by her very strong moral compass and anger at injustices. But those anger isn't 'pure' anger, it's righteousness. She believes there are certain things that cannot be forgiven and certain action that is honorable. And she will uphold it even if she has to work twice as hard or risk herself because they are the 'right' thing to do. That is healthy enneagram 1w2.

While she has a very strong judgment, she doesn't project it outward to other people. She focuses on bettering herself first to deserve and protect people around her. When something doesn't feel right in her gut (like when she told Gigan Senjou she'll pick Senjusou again because the first time Jaeha helped her) she won't back down on it. She will do it 'right'. She is very firm on her principle and if something isn't right, she'll call on it. But she also has strong 2 wing that lends in helpfulness and softer touch to her enneagram 1. She doesn't shove her beliefs on other people but instead seek to work together with them to get the desired outcome (wing 2 + Fe).

Her sorting is pretty simple. She is Snake primary, her motivation is 'I want to protect people that are dear to me'. This concept is further expanded when she made it her mission to look after the kingdom her father 'loves' so much. Her father was one of the most important people in her circle, so what he loves (his ideal of peace, his kingdom, his people) is also hers to protect as well. Then she starts bonding with people left and right but not in a Badger way. She takes them in and made them hers.

She is willing to do everything to make sure her people is safe. And her biggest fear is to have anyone of her people got hurt or killed. But her Snake primary also made her vulnerable the most when Suwon killed King Il. That betrayal shook her world to the core. But she didn't let it burn her primary, instead she heals through her connections with other people (first in Wind Tribe - Taeyeon, Mundeok and other people in Wind Tribe. Then the dragons and people of Awa). I think Mundeok and the guys in Wind tribe save her from burning - 'everyone in the wind tribe is a family. You are our family now'. I think it's precisely this that saves her from burning.

Her secondary is Lion. She is honest to the fault, react from the gut and stand by her truth. Her strength is in her solid willpower. She pushes on when things get hard. She stands her ground against all adversary. She is a natural leader who inspires everyone around her through the strength of character and sense of righteousness (healthy Lion secondary). She can't stand sitting on the side line doing nothing. She needs to get into actions and react. Doing nothing limits her because she only finds her strength when she faces adversary head on. Like when she rushes out to confront Taejun (I didn't leave Wind Tribe to hide under Hak forever, there is something I must do now).

I doubted it a bit because what she said to Jaeha and Sinha sometimes felt like a deliberate manipulation (saying it's alright if you don't want to come with her, but stick around and suggests it. Saying what they want/need to hear. Presenting herself in a way that they will have to come with her). For a Snake sec like me, that's something I'd say because I know it'll work. But that doesn't align with Yona's character so I go with Lion secondary. That goes to show how different secondary can come up with the same motive and action only with different flavor internally.

But she also values fair play and hard work. Which shows strong Badger secondary model. She is willing to put in hard work (200 arrows a night is a LOT, especially if you've never handled a bow before) and wants to do things fair and square. She never looks for shortcuts. She will do things the right way and put in the efforts until it happens. She's also very caring and helpful in a Badger sec way as well. She knows she isn't strong enough so she has to put in the effort to make herself stronger.

All in all, a very compelling and inspirational character. She reminds me that no matter what is happening to you right now. Only you can tell you who you are and what you can be. You can let them break you, or you can carry it and make sure what happens to you never happen to anyone else. And only you can make that choice to protect what is dear to you and take the responsibility and hard work that comes with it. Only you can make yourself worthy, just like how Yona molds herself into a great leader that she is :)

Next post: Hak

#akatsuki no yona #Yona #sorting hat chats #mbti #enfj 1w2

[sunnyhatchats]

sorting the gang: charlie kelly

Previously: Dennis, Mac, Dee

Two more to go, one obvious, one maybe less?

Primary: Badger (Snake model)

Something I've been taking into account is that everyone on this show is going to be biased toward looking and behaving like a Snake, primary and secondary. The Gang is a strong mutually negatively reinforcing influence on each other, there's an entire episode about that dynamic. (More on that episode later.) So I've had to kind of correct for that the whole way through. Plus it would be very boring for everyone to be the same type.

So, Snake model, pretty clear. Charlie is very attached to Frank - when Frank starts dating his mom he stages an elaborate plot to get him "back in my arms." Obviously for most of the series he has an unhealthy stalker obsession with the Waitress. He goes to extreme lengths to protect them, or at least to do what he perceives as protecting them, and will go to great lengths to get revenge on anyone who'd hurt them...

...but those extreme lengths get superseded all the time. In "The Waitress Is Getting Married" he agrees to go on some dates with other people at the Gang's suggestion, and at the end when Brad says he's going to trick Dee into thinking he likes her, he gives Brad a box of hornets to punish him. (Although he was planning on doing it anyway) He involves the Gang in his proposal musical in "The Nightman Cometh." He is generally willing to join whoever in the Gang on whatever they're scheming to do. And also people outside the Gang, whenever there's a storyline about genuinely bonding with an outsider, Charlie's usually the one doing it: Buster in "The Gang Gets Whacked," the girl in "The Gang Solves the North Korea Situation," the juggalo kid in "Dee Reynolds: Shaping America's Youth..."

This is because Charlie is, out of everyone in the Gang, the one most attached to the idea of it as a group. When his place in the group is threatened he gets really upset. In "The Gang Gets a New Member," he is fixated on Schmitty replacing him and devastated when the Gang chooses Schmitty over him when he gives an ultimatum about it, unlike in high school when he gave the same ultimatum and they didn't.

(Idk about dehumanizing but maybe his being totally negative at Schmitty or his sisters counts?)

Charlie is super identified with his role in the Gang even when that role makes him the butt of jokes, being the one doing the Charlie work, etc. He can be susceptible to peer pressure, admitting in "The Gang Misses the Boat" that he only picks on Dee because the Gang does. Charlie did this in high school too: he really identified with being "the Dirtgrub" even though that was a nickname given to him by a bully, and threw himself right back in the role in "The High School Reunion."

Also, intangibles. I feel like Badgers have "nice guy energy" even when they aren't nice people. Charlie is an unstable, delusional stalker with severe anger issues and a vindictive streak that shows up from time to time, has literally killed people, but it is almost universally agreed upon among fans that he's "the good one."

Secondary: Lion (lowkey Snake model, highkey Badger model)

Everyone's secondaries in this show are pretty exaggerated. Mac is a Lion of the loud exploding at situations variety. Charlie is a Lion of the guileless and do-whatever-I-want variety.

"I am who I am." "OK but let's pretend like you're not who you are..."

Basically, Charlie is Charlie. The Gang is constantly frustrated with Charlie being Charlie. Think of Dee complaining in "Charlie Kelly: King of the Rats" that she can't take him anywhere because he insists on stuff like eating spaghetti at the movies and a spa. Or of him being the WILD CARD. His guilelessness endears him to other characters as often as it screws everyone over. And like Mac he also takes the direct approach to situations - think him suddenly kidnapping the critic in "Paddy's Pub: The Worst Bar in Philadelphia," or knocking down the wall in "Risk E. Rat's Pizza and Amusement Center" last season.

The Snake model comes with the territory, he schemes like everyone else does, and he pretends to be various characters to execute the scheme. But it's usually on his own terms - including when people tell him not to do it - often on the fly, and usually something he does because he wants to, for fun. Think the Texas oil tycoon from "Frank's Pretty Woman," crashing everyone's schemes by playing Green Man, anything regarding "bird law"...

The Badger model is the more visible one. When he cares about something he really cares about it being done thoroughly. "Charlie Work" is an entire episode about this.

galaxy brain tier prepwork

You also see this in "Frank Reynolds' Little Beauties" and "The Nightman Cometh" when he gets put in charge of directing shows and bossily micromanages them. There's a correlation between Charlie being put in charge of something and him insisting that everything is done right. In his own... unique fashion.

In conclusion, a Lion theme song.

#sortinghatchats #shc #iasip #Youtube

[wisteria-lodge]

burnt lion primary (modeling bird with badger system) + lion secondary (heavy badger model) (fun bird model)

Attempting to write this on my phone as my laptop charger is broken and the replacement doesn’t arrive until tomorrow. I could just wait but I’m impatient and ADHD and I want to do this now. Anyways, I’ve been thinking of myself as a bird primary / snake model for a bit, but today I realized I might be badger, with a wide definition of “group,” and possibly a bird model? I’m sort of lost on secondary, though.

With this opening, I’m kind of thinking an In-the-Moment secondary rather than a Prep-work secondary.

Today I bought a homeless woman some food and sat down with her and gave her my number when she asked. My partner pointed out to me that this was incredibly unsafe. I blocked her but I feel so horribly guilty about it as I told her I’d go see her again in 2 days. Everyone is telling me that I need to prioritize my own safety, and I suppose logically I know that, but it doesn’t stop me from crying. I think I might live with this guilt for the rest of my life- and when I had that thought, it hit me that I could be a badger.

Hmm. There’s a lot to unpack here. I mean breaking a promise just feels shitty on a human level, and my instinct tells me there’s probably some third option - take someone with you when you go maybe. But it’s also totally possible there’s not. That’s not what I’m speculating on here.

In terms of this system, you helped someone out in what sounds like a totally unplanned, spur-of-the-moment kind of thing (which makes me think lion or snake, and I’m leaning lion because the honest directness of handing out your phone number.)

Then, your partner and “everyone” tells you that you went too far, and you go along with them, but feel really REALLY guilty. This tells me that either a) you’re not a Badger primary, and are in all likelihood probably a Lion, or b) you are a (universal) Badger primary in a community that defines “person” more narrowly than you do.

I thought I was able to adapt to new morals based on logic and incorporate them into my system, but it’s always based on what is just and fair for the group- other people.

Could still be Badger, or a Badger-flavored Paragon Lion.

I have a very hard time being able to do things for myself, even basic hygiene, which I know is just a mental illness thing and not necessarily a placement. But the relevant bit here is that it becomes ridiculously easy in comparison when I’m doing it for other people

You’re starting to sound like an Exploded Badger primary, who exists to help the group, and has a very hard time seeing themselves as valuable and worthwhile outside of the context of the group.

including (and tbh mostly) animals, who are ABSOLUTELY people. And I realized that it’s similar to how I feel towards the disenfranchised. Even that feels icky to say, I feel like I’m equating the homeless to animals??

It’s fine to say that animals and disenfranchised people are both groups that you feel strongly about. You keep coming back to doubting your instincts in an anxious way that makes me think semi-Burned Lion, rather than Bird. And even the slightly disconnected causes are pointing me in a Lion direction.

And that goes against my morals, the underprivileged are humans who deserve to be treated as such and often aren’t because rich people are fucking assholes. I feel very, very strongly about helping those in need

Yeah, I can really, really see that. In a way that truly makes me wonder why Lion was the one primary you didn’t consider for yourself.

and those who depend on me.

It’s possibly you might have some loyalist primary model going on. But I don’t think you’re a loyalist.

I am too naive and trusting when it comes to this particular subject, and cynical in almost everything else. This is also why I am strongly against the idea of personally having children. I do not trust myself to do it correctly.

“I do not trust myself” “I am too naive” “I am too cynical” “that feels icky” “I’ve been told logically that I’m wrong but I’m still crying.”

I don’t know what to tell you. You have strong feelings, a lot of them, but do not trust them (are told you can’t tust them.) You’re a Burnt Lion. You’ve probably latched to someone (probably your group or specifically your partner) as an external morality, which is a total Burnt Lion thing. This - ow, it hurts to read. These things you think about yourself, I see no evidence at all that they’re true.

If i am a badger primary, the 1% do not fit into my definition of “people,” though I know logically they are.

Again “logically” makes an appearance. “Logically I should feel this… but I don’t.”

I do not wish violence against anyone as I feel it is morally wrong, but I also wouldn’t be upset of any of them croaked.

This is much more a lion’s “I don’ t feel anything about them” and less a Badger’s “they’re monsters.” The word you used was “assholes” and that’s honestly very humanizing.

I feel like my sense of logic and emotion are at odds sometimes. I often think that things I feel are “wrong” or “unfair” or “unjustified”

burnt, burnt, burnt, burnt

even though years of therapy have told me that’s not true.

Oh good. I’m glad you’ve got somebody to talk to. Good for you.

I feel like my bird and badger tendencies are so wrapped up in each other it gets hard to differentiate.

You’re a Burnt Lion (who often look like stressed out Birds) in a very Badger (probably Exploded Badger) community.

But, more relevant, I often feel like my negative emotions towards other people are unfair and horrible and wrong.

You’re allowed to have negative emotions! They keep you safe! This is true for everyone, but especially true for a Lion primary.

At my core I value others more than myself. It has been a challenge to work through this, and the only motivation I have is that other people get upset when I constantly talk about how guilty I feel for having emotions.

Somebody did a number on you. At this point you couldn’t be more textbook Burnt Lion if you *tried.*

This leads me into possibly a bit of snakiness?

I have no idea where you’re getting Snake. I mean, Snake would be good for you. A Snake model would help you immensely.

“Exploded snake” greatly resonates with me, but this is due to my trauma and BPD. I often have A Person that all of this “I cannot do things for myself but I will do everything for other people” is very concentrated towards. But again this is a mental illness thing so I see it as more of an unhealthy unintended model, not sure though.

My friend, what you have is a coping mechanism. You pour yourself into someone else so you’re not able to worry about yourself, and you have control over (and feel good about) this aspect of your life, at least.

It’s not Exploded Snake. Exploded Snakes, even at their most extreme, might become co-dependent, but they don’t lose themselves in people like this.

I also really resonate with bird in the way that I really value knowledge. The only real positive thing I can consistently muster up to say about myself is that I’m intelligent. I struggled a lot in school due to trauma and untreated ADHD and the works, but I’m aware that I am smart. It still feels sort of wrong to say that, like I’m being too conceited, but I’ve worked on accepting it as fact. I’m a nerd with a large vocabulary, lots of trivia, and some special interests I hoard information on like a bird. (Mainly cats and bugs. If you werr curious. You probably weren’t.

Look. I do these because I like people. I’m interested in people. I like seeing how different they are from each other, and I like seeing how they’re the same, and I like seeing how they tick. You don’t have to apologize, and you don’t have to be so very self-deprecating.

I appreciate the honestly though, and I appreciate that you are actively taking steps, and doing everything you need to do to get going. If I were to take a guess, it would be that at one point your secondary was a whole lot more burnt than it is now. It’s doing pretty good now. But there’s still some gunk and muscle memory left over from before. That’s how it’s reading to me anyway.

As for the system, definitely at least a fun bird model. That’s the neurodivergent classic.

If I’m wrong about something, it can be embarrassing but I feel I can recover and incorporate it into my system.

That’s honestly human stuff. (But you’re using Bird language to say it. I don’t think you’re a Bird though. I think you *like* birds.)

However this is only the case if it benefits other people / adds to my understanding in a way that makes me a better person towards others. This is why it can be so hard for me to accept that I am wrong about myself on certain things.

You’re perfectly confident in your ability to reason. It just… doesn’t totally make a difference when it really comes down to it, does it? Because what I’m reading about is a system not changing.

I feel that not punishing myself is a disservice to others.

That’s Dobby the House-Elf logic. I know I’m being harsh, but I’ve got pages and pages of old diary entries romanticizing guilt, calling it noble, calling it protective, glorifying making yourself the suffering central sacrifice. And I had to be banged over the head over and over and OVER again, before I realized that… I wasn’t that special. Which was an epiphany of terror, and relief.

I have been told over and over this is not healthy but I really cannot help it. I think I’ve made progress? But only because my partner broke up with me because of it and told me I had to get my shit in order before we got back together. So that core is still there, it’s still entirely externally motivated.

Look, external motivation is still motivation. I’ll take it.

The reason I thought I modeled snake was because I mask my autism and everything else very heavily, and attempt to assimilate very heavily.

Despite the (unfortunately) identical terminology, snake masking and autism masking are completely different things.

I don’t feel like it’s a bird secondary acting, as it feels so natural to me at this point. Sometimes in the middle of a conversation I’ll realize I’m completely mirroring the other participants, saying things I don’t actually believe, etcetera. It is really so natural, it happens almost every conversation.

Snakes do that sort of thing consciously. This sounds like Courtier Badger mirroring (and you do use the word mirroring, so I figure you’ve probably worked that out.)

At the same time though, I do not know what substance there is to mask- it feels empty, like I’m constantly searching for the bottom of an endless ocean. I know that is incredibly cheesy and, God Forbid, bateman-esque. I can assure you I do not kill people. 😋

I think you identify with Patrick Bateman because he is a person that is an externally defined surface. He doesn’t know what business card design he actually likes, it probably never even occurs to him that he should buy something because he likes it. He does things because they’re correct (even if he doesn’t know why they’re correct.) But clearly he does have all this feeling that has been sublimated beneath the surface, and because he’s in a movie it comes out in his murder-sprees.

If I were to sort Patrick Bateman, I would say that he’s an extremely Burnt Lion who is deep inside a very toxic Badger community. And a Lion secondary, with that ax and chainsaw and everything. OBVIOUSLY American Psycho is a hyper-exaggerated, stylized film… but no, I’m not surprised that you see a blown-up version of yourself in him.

I feel it is something I learned as a coping mechanism. But maybe it’s inherent to who I am now and I’m actually a snake secondary? No idea.

I actually don’t think your secondary is burnt. I think is more… drifting, because your primary isn’t pointing it at anything. And just the fact that you are drifting is making me say Lion secondary over Badger secondary (which is the other possibility. But you seem kind of uncomfortable using your Badger, even though it is effective.)

Just work on liking things. That’s your homework. Just little things. Low stakes things. Pick a new phone background. Smell some candles and pick the one you like best. Go to the movie theater alone, and get a ticket to the movie you want to see most.

Small self trivia that may be relevant? I love solving mysteries and puzzles and I avoid media spoilers like the plague. This is because if I have a tiny bit of information I will often overthink it so badly that I end up interpreting the whole damn plot and then the movie isn’t even enjoyable. Especially when people offhandedly mention something I’m not supposed to guess is important, but of course it’s important if they’re telling me about it ?!?! So I can extrapolate from there and ruin the whole thing for myself. I wish to god I could turn this off but I can’t. It’s not something I model, it’s something inherent to how my brain works and it’s ANNOYING.

I’m not allowed to watch Twilight Zone episodes with my family anymore, and they still haven’t forgiven me for guessing the ending of Planet of the Apes ten minutes in. I think this kind of stuff just comes with having a foundation in media analysis and a puzzle-brain.

But at least I have fun when I’m not totally spoiled. Related: if I had to pick any superpower at all, it would be omniscience. I want to understand every universal truth there is. I want to know everything.

Oh come on, you can’t pick “I want to be god,” as your answer to the super power game. At least say that you want to achieve enlightenment or something.

But astrophysics and all that jazz is way too hard.

I have zero doubt that if you were interested in astrophysics, you could get a pretty damn good working knowledge of astrophysics.

On a smaller scale sometimes I fantasize about doing the long con on the US government and becoming a dutiful public worker just to get into the inner circles and get access to all the secrets`. 😂 But morally speaking I could NEVER do what needs to be done to get you there.

I’m going to say that this is a very Lion Badger fantasy in the specifics. Slide under the radar for years and years, get people to trust you… and then when you have the dirt on everyone, BOOM - Lion primary activates. But *overall* - it’s a revolutionary fantasy, and that’s Double Lion.

I’m trying to come up with more information for a possible secondary but I really am coming up blank. I hope there’s some key information up there that’s a secondary placement hiding in wait. Sorry for the long post. I hope you at least have fun with it! I love snappy personality systems like this, it was at least fun to write.

PS - After reading some more I am thinking snake might be less of a model and more of a secondary I simply took some time to grow into and use effectively. I have always struggled with feeling like a bad person for sometimes prioritizing groups over others- I got myself into a lot of middle school drama for trying to climb the social ladder and ditching some good friends in the process. Which, you know, hilarious in retrospect because it was middleschool, not corporate.

Awww. Baby glory hound lion.

I was a compulsive liar when I was younger, trying to get people to like me and to be a part of the group. I used to be convinced I was a master manipulator when I was really just an autistic kid trying to survive and not be othered (which was worse than death at the time.) I still struggle with this, seeing people as social ladder points.

Hmm. You know, this definitely DOES sound like a Badger secondary model.

I don’t know if my mask ever comes off around other people, but after moving out from my (mildly emotionally abusive) parents and living with my aunt I can see myself becoming more blunt and less pandering.

GOOD. That seems like it was 100% the right move for you. And part of that bluntness is you getting to be more comfortable not masking… but you know. I haven’t seen you use it really, but I do suspect you may have some Lion secondary under there.

#submission #sortinghatchats #shc #sortme #wisteria sorts #double lion #burnt lion primary #lion secondary #badger secondary model #bird secondary model

[reds-burrow]

I'm 90% sure I'm a Bird Secondary, except that I'm sort of a panicky person and sometimes I have moments whenn I can't think and act on my gut instead. Would this be a Lion Secondary model? Or maybe the Bird is the model?

Oh, no! Please don't sort yourself based on what happens when you're being controlled by emotion! Unless you're getting a feeling of security from these moments, like listening to your gut is your back up to your Bird, I wouldn't even count it as a part of your sorting. What people do when they're panicked, angry, afraid, or desperate only tells you how they act when emotion is the one in the driver's seat. You might be able to identify someone's Primary in this state (people usually make moves to protect or fight for what they value most when pressured), but this is not helpful in revealing Secondaries. I'd argue tdesperate people will look like Burnt Secondaries, trying anything and everything they can to get out of that situation, even if that burning doesn't last once the pressure lifts.

From the sound of it, your panic is typically Lion flavored, but ask yourself: is that panic you? Wouldn't you rather sort yourself based on what you do when you are feeling healthy and safe? It's up to you, ultimately, but as someone who struggles with anxiety, I personally don't consider my anxiety-induced reactions to be the true core of who I am. Instead, I look to what brings me out of that anxiety, back to a healthier headspace. For me, it's usually practicing something stressful beforehand (Badger) or it's looking around and realizing I can adapt to my situation, no matter how bad it gets (Snake). For you, it may be collecting knowledge or tools to help you face something you know will put you in a panic (Bird), or it very well could be trusting your gut and pushing through whatever is stressing you out (Lion). Either way, only you can answer which Secondary gives you comfort and security when things get rough.

#the secondaries #sortinghatchats #ask response #general sorting advice

[sevilemar]

Do you have things you love about each secondary ?

I love the directness of lions. They say what they want, and you know what beats you need to hit with them. In groups, they can take a lot off your plate in terms of keeping conversations open and honest, and it's just so easy to follow where they lead. They are also the easiest to read, if not always to deal with.

I love the connectedness of badgers. They are the ones that will check in periodically to make sure you're alright, they remember your birthday and other small things from your life that makes you feel appreciated, and they have an incredible knack for knowing how to handle a group. They are also fair to a fault, which is a blessing and a curse.

I love the clarity of birds. They can tell you exactly what they are doing at any given moment, and why. They know the best strategies and the most surprising facts, and the amount of self-reflection I encounter with bird secondaries or people with a bird model is truly impressive.

I love learning from other snakes. There is a level of recognising and respecting gamesmanship when you encounter each other in the wild, whether you like them as a person or not. Also, it's just fun to watch what they're doing sometimes. I also love feeling like I can become anything at any moment, even if it's not entirely true.

#sortinghatchats #ask answers #the secondaries

[mysticalenthusiastvoid]

I'm either in Badger mode or in neutral. Sometimes it seems like there's no middle ground.

#secondary neutral state #snake secondary #badger secondary #Badger model #Courtier Badger?

[arizonaraine]

Sorting Hat Chats: Zootopia

(Have I talked about how much I love this movie? Because I love this movie.)

Judy Hopps might be the Lion-i-est Lion primary to ever Lion. Seriously. From the time she's a little girl, she has this internal conviction that she needs to "make the world a better place." She loves her family in Bunnyburrow, but is perfectly fine with heading out on her own, moving to the big city to fulfill her dreams. Her passion, her drive, is internal and idealistic. She believes so much in the idea of Zootopia. It guides her decisions, the advice she gives, and the way she treats other people. When she acts out of line with her values-- her careless comments about predators are used as justification for mistreating them by the media and by Bellweather-- it eats her up inside. She resigns from the police department and moves home, but is despondent. She's on the verge of burning until her conversation with her parents and Gideon Gray, which proves to her that 1. her idealism made a change in their lives and 2. the fight isn't over! Her Lion spark is reignited, and she speeds off to Zootopia to make things right. She ends the story a more mature Lion: recognizing that "life is more complicated than a slogan on a bumper sticker," but still working to make that dream of Zootopia true.

I think she's a Badger Secondary. Yes, she can be a shouty and charge-y like a Lion, but I think that her real strength is connecting with the people around her. Like Captain America, she creates assets. She uses Nick's street smarts and leverages her connection with Bellweather to access the Jam Cams at City Hall. She and Nick are saved from being iced by the mobster because of the warmth and kindness with which she treats his daughter. She also showcases the Bookkeeper aspect of this secondary through her nose-to-the-grindstone, "I'm not going to write 100 tickets, I'm going to write 200 tickets before noon!" approach to becoming a cop.

Nick Wilde starts the story a burned Badger primary. The childhood trauma that forged him was being rejected by a group. All he wanted was to join the Junior Ranger Scouts: he was excited to put on a uniform and be part of their community. When he's bullied for being a predator, he burns. He looks sort of like a Snake when Judy first meets him-- kinda hedonistic, only looking out for himself-- but as the story progresses, his true Badger self starts to shine through. He knows everyone: Otterton the florist, the mob boss, Flash the sloth... He stands up for Judy to Boggo. He's a mix of trepidatious and excited when Judy suggests that he join the police force. He refuses to abandon her when she's injured, insisting that they come up with another plan. And in the end, he joins the force! He's finally part of a community.

I'm going use Occam's Razor here and say that he's a Snake secondary. One could argue that he's just modeling Snake because that's what's expected of foxes, but I don't see enough evidence of another secondary, so I'm going for the simplest explanation for now. Nick is good at improvising. He's great at taking information and using the environment around him to shape the outcome he wants. When he first meets Judy, he plays her like a violin. "It's called a hustle, sweetheart." He sells skunk-butt rugs to the mobster. His whole popsicle scam?? Snake, snake, snake. He can talk his way out of pretty much any corner. He can go neutral-state blunt on people, but most of the time, he's charming as hell. Judy teasingly calls him "slick Nick."

TL;DR

Judy Is a shining Lion who grows into a more mature version of her primary by the end, with a Badger secondary that uses hard work and the people around her to accomplish her mission.

Nick starts out a burned Badger primary who eventually finds a home with Judy and the police department. His Snake secondary might just be him playing to what people already think foxes are-- I'd love to hear arguments for another secondary!-- but he seems to use these tools naturally.

#sorting hat chats #shc #lion primary #badger secondary #burned badger primary #snake secondary #zootopia #judy hopps #nick wilde