#and wildly differing characterization depending on the writer

[five-rivers]

It's so funny watching long, detailed posts about what's canon in DC and how people are characterizing xyz character wrong go by on my dashboard as if DC isn't the publisher that literally came up with the term retcon and also which at one point had so many alternate universes they had to have a whole mini-series event to nuke some of them.

#dc #and comics as a whole are notorious for having continuity problems #and wildly differing characterization depending on the writer #i say this with love #but also like #chill

[lesbiradshaw]

It’s really interesting and annoying to me how so many ppl seem to misunderstand /misinterpret Steve’s character. He’s not a rule follower per se - but ppl think that cuz of his “language” comments. Trump supporters think he’s on their side when he would despise maga and everything it stands for. Steve literally fights for what’s right - equality and justice for everyone (not just Americans). He would hate bigots and he clearly doesn’t trust the gov. I hate how he’s so misunderstood but U get it

sometimes you just gotta

#people with 0 media literacy ignoring the decades of political and social commentary put into the cap character 👎 #i want joss whedons head on a pike #one thing i hate about the mcu (among many) is that theres such a lack of consistency for the characterization of specific heroes across + #the movies because they hire a diff person to write/direct them almost every single time and half the time that person #doesnt even watch the other movies ???? so its like #with actual comics having SO MANY diff writers makes sense bc different runs exist in different timelines and universes #and even then it can be hit or miss if they hit the core of the characters #but the mcu is supposed to all exist in a single universe for the most part #so when you have your characters ping ponging their personalities depending on who is writing/directing them… #people who only watch the avengers films are gonna have a wildly diff interpretation of steve (or any of the others) than people who #actually watch the individual trilogies and its so annoying #and then theres the whole aspect of fans falling for the literal propaganda aspects of the cap character despite the entire message being #NOT TO bc theres a good man behind the mantle… but i digress #mcu lacks consistency ive known this we all know it but anyways #i know what is truly in your heart steve rogers dont you worry

[deusvervewrites]

With some of the recent Bakugou meta asks I felt compelled to go back and read your long post about the issues with Bakugous "Character Development" and realized what makes it so frustrating to read Bakugou in canon for me:

This seperation into "Interim Bakugou" and "Dramatic Bakugou" makes it feel like Interim Bakugou is the real Bakugou that is true to his feelings and opinions while Dramatic Bakugou is Bakugou when he is placed into very specific situations and has to reluctantly "follow the script and play along".

Allow me to elaborate: Specifically because Dramatic Bakugou always reverts to Interim Bakugou very quickly, it feels like he gets put into these big, character developing situations simply because the author needs him to be there and check all the boxes on his character arc, but the character himself, Bakugou, does not actually want to be there, nor would he be there if he had a choice. He just goes through the motions because he has to and as soon as he is done he goes on to be the same as before.

It honestly feels similar to when teachers put a kid in detention or parents ground them and they pretend to be really sorry just so that they get through this nonsense faster without ever reflecting or thinking about what led them there in the first place.

And that also sabotages future appearances of Dramatic Bakugou that, technically, should be good, because it feels more and more like Hand of the Author: Bakugou does the things he does not because they are the natural evolution of his character path and the story, he does them because the author NEEDS him to do them to justify & explain his "redemption arc". It feels forced and artificial, which sucks because I want to see this arc for him, I want to feel something when he finds & saves Izuku at the end of the Dark Hero arc or when he finally apologizes or when he gets wasted by AfO, but... I just don't. After everything that happened before, it feels just too forced, too artificial to really make me care as much as I want to.

It feels like these things happen because they need to happen, not because the plot and character arcs organically led to them. It's the JJ Abrams "Dont worry about how or why this happens, look there are Explosions!"-style of writing that can be soooo frustrating, because we know this could be done better.

It also makes it so much harder to pin down Bakugous actual character, because depending on how you interpret these moments and how much weight you assign them, you end up with wildly different characters.

Ok, that's it, rant over, sorry for the wall of text, just needed to get that out.

I think part of it is that Horikoshi is a comedy writer. My Hero Academia has from the very first chapters had a lot of gags in it, and Horikoshi has used comedic timing in the narrative itself in various ways. See also his love of anticlimaxes (Midoriya getting the hair, the Sports Festival conclusion, Aizawa casually not expelling anyone, Bakugou's new Hero Name being worse than the early ones, etc.)

The issue is that there are many times where the comedy comes at the cost of characterization. This is a lot of what I'm talking about when I distinguish Bakugou as being two different characters, though it's far more pronounced with him

#asks #meta #bakugou katsuki

[tenebris-lux]

Okay, so now I’m thinking about what if Victor HAD finished Creature 2.0?

What the first Creature is thinking is, “And they lived happily ever after away from people. The end.” But would it be that simple?

She wakes up. She’s overwhelmed by her senses and everything around her. Sees two beings in the room with her, one about her height, maybe taller, the other much smaller. They exchange sounds at each other, then the smaller one makes some gestures and leaves the room.

I’m not a story writer, so I don’t know the details of what happens next. But the first Creature would be guiding her from there on. Victor’s part is done, so he and the Creatures are at quits. She might not remember him after a while because there’s so much to take in at once.

The Creature is a hard one for me to pin down in characterization. But he’s really patient. He’d be patient with her, knowing what she’s going through in her first couple days. Victor probably packed up his stuff and left the place to these two; not his problem now whether they stay or take off right away—the Creature will keep his word. I don’t know how urgently the Creature would want to change location, if he’d want to give Lady (I’m going to call her Lady) a few more days to find her feet, or if he’d hustle her somewhere else where they can take their time. Probably the latter. He’d help her learn to talk, and she would rely on him completely. Eventually he would lead her on their journey to isolation.

Would they glimpse other people on the way? Would they have to hide? Taking cues from his behavior, would she fear other humans without even interacting? Or would she be curious and want to find out for herself? We can easily imagine how a meeting then would go. She’d rely on Creature even more afterwards.

… OR, would they never run into humans, and make it all the way to the sanctuary Creature had picked out without incident?

Victor wondered if they’d have kids. No, he seemed certain that they could have children. That opens up another wild series of possibilities. Would Lady be prepared for it? Creature probably knows some stuff, but even he wouldn’t be prepared for that. They’d be flying blind in raising a family. I could potentially see Creature going near human habitation for research and observation, but would Lady go too? Or would she have to stay behind, alone? It’s a risk for Creature to go, a bigger risk for both of them to go.

Throughout all this, would Lady be satisfied? She’d looked to Creature this whole time as her guide. Depending on her personality, would she be content with all that? Or would she be more and more curious about all that she hadn’t yet experienced? Creature is smart and resourceful; unless something wildly unexpected happened, he’d make sure he and she got to their sanctuary safely and without incident. But he can only control so much. Would she wonder about the environments beyond? If Creature told her of his interactions with humans, how long until she wanted to test for herself? It sometimes takes just having an experience for someone to decide if they’re content with the same setting for the rest of their life. Creature has had experiences, Lady has not. Creature had to grow up quick, being on his own. Lady, maybe not so much, since she’d been taken care of and provided for, but that would change once children become an issue. Kids or not, eventually it will happen. She’d crave experiences of her own.

What then?

It’s a bit like Rapunzel, or the Disney film of The Hunchback of Notre Dame (haven’t read the book yet, dunno what’s the same, what’s different). Or The Secret Garden.

Oh god, I just thought of something else. What if she died in childbirth? What would Creature do then?

And there’s no way to tell their lifespan, either. Can they age?

So many possibilities…..

#ramble time! #frankenstein’s creature #frankenstein au #Frankenstein

[thedeviljudges]

Do you have any controversial opinions about The Devil Judge?

Jfasldk depends on what you think is controversial and to who because a good chunk of us are very much here are on the same page. It’s those who don’t actually understand the lesson and underlying heart of the show that have an issue with “misogyny” and “kang Yohan is the devil,” two of the hotter points still discussed and the consensus of very few on here and twitter.

I think the main points of contention I continue to run into, that again, a lot of people on here believe the same with as I do (although I have seen this vary wildly on twit fandom) are:

Kang Yohan was right, and he isn’t the villain

Soohyun loved gaon but in a manipulative, selfish way; she didn’t deserve to die but her actions show she is just as flawed as the rest of the characters

The devil judge is a love story – I am of the belief that it is queer; however, I do acknowledge that if it’s not what you identify it as, it is still a love deeper than friendship – context is everything, and this show is heavily based on Christianity in its themes. You cannot remove that no matter how “not gay” the show is. I realize that sounds like an oxymoron, but if you understand the biblical ideology of love, you’d understand how deep it truly runs. (My post about that here).

Gaon isn’t stupid, albeit naive at times, and his actions on a second rewatch are far less annoying than the first time around when you understand his characterization. He seems very wishy-washy and back and forth, but considering he’s been manipulated for a good portion of his life, wouldn’t you be too?

I don’t think the show is misogynistic in the way that a lot of other media is. In fact, even on my first watch, I never felt that alienating dread of “here we go again” regarding female characters and typical storylines. Not once did something stick out aside from agreeing and feeling for sunah, for example – it wasn’t just misogyny she faced; she gave us a chance to relate to her when those things happened, almost like a secret little club with all of us automatically knowing her thoughts and feelings (one of the dinner scenes when she’s accused of sleeping with Yohan just bc she’s defending him – the men were misogynistic, but I know a lot of us deeply felt what she did in that moment, and we got to be included in that not just for sympathy but in true ally-ship)

Maybe the most controversial of them all, but I don’t think it’s unfair to say that Yohan had some degree of infatuation for Isaac; we can't say the word incest lest that cause a ruckus; however, i think this topic can go both ways and there is no right or wrong answer

I’ve talked about these in depth before, but I’d be happy to go into them again individually if anyone would want me to. I think, truthfully, my main controversy is that there are some people who just don’t understand it. Maybe never will or don’t even bother trying. I understand not every piece of media is meant to be digested in the capacity of analysis. However, I think it’s high time that we do understand that there are pieces worthy of that, while others suffice as just good old fun and not necessarily meant to be picked at in depth. The devil judge is different, however, when we look at the creator/writer and his intentions of the messages he wanted to display. Like it’s literally a shame when I see posts that just ignore that or get it so, so wrong. Truly breaks my heart on the matter because the show is stunning in its intentions and messages.

do these long-winded answers help answer your question, though?

#x #the devil judge #devil judge #answered #anonymous

[hopefullyababe]

ive always been like 'lucifer is what supernatural SHOULD have been' bc theyre both shows about navigating life after suffering through a childhood with an absent-presumed-dead mom and a mostly-absent-when-not-abusive father in a world where the supernatural exists. the difference lies in the last element there. the supernatural. specifically, how well its integrated.

(click readmore for an Essay)

in lucifer the supernatual is thematically relevant. in this world, angels are self actualizing creatures; they have this nifty power where their angel form changes depending on how they feel about themself. for a show about self forgiveness, and personal growth, this is a perfect storytelling device. seeing the physical changes to our angel characters communicates things about their current sense of self that they might not even know yet. even for the non angelic characters, this theme of self forgiveness is still carried through the supernatural. when a human dies in lucifer, they either go to heaven or to hell. its revealed later in the show that which one they end up in is dependent on how guilty their conscience is. ascension to heaven from hell is possible, but only through self forgiveness. a human must feel that they no longer deserve to be punished. the supernatural elements are intertwined with the themes of the show. the story is strengthened by its supernatural elements, never held back by it.

supernatural(tv), however, struggles to integrate its supernatural world into the themes of the show. this is not for lack of trying, especially in the early seasons. sam and deans lives are enriched with the supernatural. their mother was killed by a demon, which their father devoted his life to hunting down and killing. sam and dean were raised in this unstable environment, being uprooted and carted around the country by their vengeful father. the brothers were raised as hunters. they were taught the ins and outs of monster killing before they could read. but the most prominent example of their involvement in the supernatural underbelly is actually sam winchester. and his demon blood.

supernatural(tv) veterans may be forgiven for forgetting this early plotpoint-as it was forgotten about by the writers in later seasons- but sam winchester IS a monster. throughout the first few seasons there is. what i suppose could be described as a mystery throughline of 'what the fuck is up with sam'. he has visions, prophetic dreams, and can move things with his mind occasionally. this, as is revealed, is because he has demon blood in him. when his mother was killed, the demon who killed her bled into baby sams mouth, causing him to develop demon powers as he grew. he is also part of about a dozen other babies who were given demon blood and have all developed wildly different powers. oddly, this is not central to his character at all. during season two, which focused on this plot, sam could be found empathizing with other demon children such as himself, or being called to the dark side by full demons- but his identity as a monster is never addressed the series in a meaningful way again. his powers also have very little relation to his character, or his development. he confides in dean at one point that he had dreamed of his girlfriend jess dying for months before she died. what does this element add? a sense of greater tragedy about an already tragic death? does it play into a character flaw, or perhaps a motif of being powerless despite having the tools to save someone? does it tell us anything about who sam is, and his deeper psyche? it really gives us nothing, girl.

it could potentially be stretched to say that sam was trying to ignore his visions, because he was trying to shut out the supernatural world entirely. he may have been trying to repress his supernatural qualities along with cutting out his family, because he wanted more than anything to be normal. this claim is not substantiated by his in show characterization though. sam shows very little hesitance when it comes to diving back into the supernatural world. in fact, after the first episode, he embraces it. his powers really give us nothing in terms of his current struggles, or where his mind is at.

this sort of detachment is present in the entire world of supernatural(tv). sam and dean fight monsters, yes. they are friends with angels, descended from two different lines of renowned monster hunters, friends with the king of hell, have met god- but they exist in their own little bubble, apart from their profession. they really could be doing anything. their involvement in the supernatural is surface level. it is never interwoven into their characters on a deeper level. or, at least on the same level as lucifer.

in terms of the integration of supernatural elements, lucifer comes out on top. its a show that is inseparable from its concept, and inseparable from its supernatural elements. it is a story that could not be told any other way. supernatural(tv) could be about the mafia, and not change hardly at all. actually that would fuck so hard. can someone make supernatural but have it be about the mafia. anyway. thank you for coming to my ted talk.

#daphnes talking again #thinking of titles for this essay. i might like. make it an actual essay. #spn lucifer and the 'monsters are real' trope #spn lucifer and the integration of supernatural elements #see no thats ones like. boring #spn lucifer and how NOT to do a monster story #ehhhhhhhh #makes it sound like theyre BOTH bad examples #lucifer supernatural and the secret world of monsters #OOOH that ones not bad #hmmmm #ill figue it out

[romanticizingmurder]

People get so mad about canon vs fanon but I'm like. This is my lazy river and I'm just floating down. Enjoying what I like, close my eyes to what I don't, mind my own business.

Especially for comics fandom like come on.... we all know (or should know) every character has had wildly different characterizations and arcs depending on the writer. It's okay to pick and choose. Cherry picking canon is kind of necessary, as a comics fan. Being mean about what canon other people choose to believe (or what they ignore) is just silly. Curate your experience online so you don't see them and move on.

[alittleoptimistic]

Started reading marvel comics for the first time, and the vibe reminds me of doctor who in the sense that there’s these different runs of the same character, and wildly different characterization depending on the writer, and they throw in random love interests that no one acknowledges outside of that volume/season, and everyone keeps trying to ‘put their own spin on it’. Also everyone is mad at the writers, constantly irritated that they ‘don’t understand the character’, and refer back to writers who Really Understood, but no one can agree on which writer Actually understood, only that it was ‘better before’. Everyone has their favorite version of the character. Backstory is constantly changed, but at least in doctor who you have the cannon excuse of time travel as a fundamental part of the plot

#this is what happens when a single story spans 50 plus years and hundreds of writers #that’s just how it is #doctor who #marvel comics #moon knight #im Trying to read and you would not believe the Spite in the comments you find on these things

[coulson-is-an-avenger]

Not to poke my head into star wars discourse again but some Thrawn fans need to realize that like,,, Thrawn as a character is first and foremost a narrative device who’s been used to embody very different concepts in the works he was represented in. Like, in the Thrawn comics, his experiences are very clearly meant to be an allegory for racism as shown by the xenophobic, exclusionary treatment he and Eli receive from the empire. AND on the flip side, in Rebels, his goals as a general of the empire trying to wipe out the rebels of Lothal are used to embody colonialism, specifically with a focus on cultural appropriation and commodification of cultural artifacts.

I see a lot of people comment stuff like “oh thrawn was always right except for when he took hera’s kalikori”, but what people don’t seem to realize is that his writing and characterization is deeply dependent on the message the writer is trying to convey. Because he’s been used so heavily as a cornerstone for some very different narratives, the intention behind his actions varies wildly across the media he has been portrayed in, and that nuance is important to keep in mind when analyzing his character. Flattening him out and comparing all of his actions as if the contexts behind them are equal does a disservice to the stories being told, and by extension, Thrawn’s character itself.

tl;dr as fascinating of a person as Thrawn is, it’s important to keep in mind that, at the end of the day, his actions are a tool used by the writers to tell different stories, and those stories - and by extension, the function of him as a narrative tool - differ greatly. 

#thrawn #star wars rebels #swr #thrawn comics #i follow the swr tag so i see a lotttt of posts about this guy and i wanna put my thoughts out there #he's a fascinating character!! but people act like the contexts behind his writing don't exist and it's so frustrating #he IS written as the oppressed AND the oppressor and Acknowledging that is important i feel like #mossy speaks #but yeah #hello sw fandom ghsldkfjd #q

[shihalyfie]

An Adventure/02 pseudo-honorifics chart

I’ve mentioned a few times that I maintain an Adventure/02 honorifics chart for the sake of fanfic writing (it’s generally a pretty vital thing to have on hand if you intend to use honorifics in fanwork, or even in fiction at all), and I’ve even mentioned that I’d like to release it someday, but one thing that was always holding me back about it was my constant checks for accuracy -- an acquaintance was also keeping one, and when we compared them we found some minor inconsistencies that would require us to rewatch the entire series with a notepad to get the right references.

After a fashion, I realized that I was scrutinizing this way too closely. The important part is not the specific honorifics themselves but rather the pattern in which they’re used -- especially because they would often alternate in-series, partially intentionally, and partially because they would flip-flop depending on writer. On top of that, most people who would be interested in this are likely writing post-2002 fanfic, where it could be reasonable for certain honorifics to change based on certain relationships.

As such, I’ve decided to just throw out the minutiae, forget about making an organized “chart”, and simply write a general overview of how the twelve Adventure/02 kids use honorifics for each other. Hopefully this can be an interesting resource/meta for those who are considering writing fanfic with these (or even simply due to general interest).

Before we begin, a few notes:

Overall, I am mostly omitting “obvious outlier cases” where a character called someone else something different from usual, but context made it clear why that particular instance was different. (For instance, Miyako trying to butter Daisuke up by calling him “Dai-chan” in 02 episode 8; she very much would not have done this in most circumstances.) I am also not looking too deeply into one-off outlier cases that seem to wildly fall outside the pattern, and seem to merely be the result of whoever was writing that episode/piece of media not checking the chart.

The tri. anime series and tri. stage play actually contradict each other, and given that they’re supposed to take place in around the same period, you basically have to commit to one or the other here. Between the two, the anime series has a number of incursions that go against patterns in ways that make it difficult to form a consistent analysis about it, whereas the stage play is much easier to make a consistent case between 02 and Kizuna (with comparatively much fewer outliers), so in terms of providing actual analysis, I will be prioritizing the latter’s take.

Due to similarly having too many obviously contradictory incursions, 02′s first drama CD (Armor Evolution to the Unknown) is also mostly removed from consideration, with the exception of instances when it’s a factor in an already ambiguous situation.

All twelve Adventure/02 characters are consistently respectful with elders and strangers (with some exceptions; Taichi really wasn’t very amused with Gennai when they first met). The following analysis is important mainly in regards to the kids’ relationships with each other.

I’ll be marking down the first-person pronouns for Digimon partners as well, but for the sake of brevity I’ll be sticking with the “base” forms (Child for everyone except Tailmon, who’s Adult) and not the higher ones.

General overview

A quick crash course on honorifics and how they’re used!

Firstly, there’s first-person pronouns, which, in the scope of fiction, generally are used to indicate a character’s disposition. Note that “one character consistently using one first-person pronoun for nearly every situation” is very endemic to fiction in particular; in real life, one may change their pronoun depending on whom they’re talking to or the context in which they’re speaking, but Japanese fiction is generally much more consistent about using these as consistent points for characterization, even to the point of bringing out pronouns that aren’t practically in use anymore in real life.

The ones generally of importance to the Adventure kids:

ore: Masculine and assertive. Note assertive instead of aggressive; it simply implies being very self-assured, and you can still have a stoic character who uses ore. Since it’s a very casual and somewhat brash pronoun, a character who uses this might still default to something like boku depending on the surrounding circumstances (for instance, Taichi, who normally uses ore, will still use boku when speaking to adults on the phone).

boku: Masculine and deferential/polite.

watashi: Gender-neutral and somewhat deferential/polite. When used by male characters, usually it’s to imply that they’re particularly mature or polite (since otherwise you’d probably expect boku).

atashi: Feminine and casual. The “casual” connotation means that it’s often employed by aggressive or assertive girls in a sort of feminine equivalent to ore, but it can also simply mean that they’re just very girly (see: Mimi).

When referring to each other, honorifics come into play. Honorifics are generally used based on a combination of “comparative level of station” (i.e. whether someone is in a “higher societal position” than you or not -- yes, even a single school grade can matter here!) and “sense of distance” (i.e. whether you are a close friend to the person in question or not). And, of course, there’s also the question of how polite the speaker is in general. These factors do weigh against each other, so that’s why it’d still make sense for two very close friends to use honorifics on each other, if said friends are portrayed as particularly polite in general.

No honorific: Referred to as yobisute in Japanese, this is actually something that merits a category on its own, because it’s something you should only be whipping out when you’re particularly close to the person. This is especially in the case of elders; unless you really do have a close relationship to the elder in question that they can forgive it, you’re being a bit in-your-face and rude for acting like you’re on their level.

-san: The most common honorific, because it’s the one you can generally rely on to default to if you’re not sure and want to be polite. Upward-facing and polite.

-senpai: Similar to -san in that it’s upward-facing and polite, but it has a stronger connotation of “someone who has been in a certain field longer than you have”. Depending on the characters in question and the relevant situation, it and -san can be interchangeable (this happens with the 02 kids and their Adventure seniors, who are both people the 02 kids look up to as people in general and people who are in higher school grade levels and further experience in Digimon-related issues).

-kun: Downward-facing and polite. In this case “downward-facing” simply means that the person you’re addressing is either on the same “societal level” as you or lower on the social ladder; it’s not meant to be used in a condescending sense! (Well, at least, not by default, anyway.) Its use is still considered respectful, especially moreso than dropping the honorific altogether, but it simply means that you’re also not necessarily deferring to the other person being higher than you. On very rare occasions, you could theoretically use it for a senior you consider yourself particularly close with, but this kind of usage never comes into play with the twelve kids in the Adventure universe (its most notable Digimon usage is Appmon’s Haru using it for Rei, who’s one year older than him).

-chan: Endearing and somewhat casual. Often used for younger girls. Because of it having a “cute” implication, it’s the one honorific here that may be advisable to avoid if you want to avoid that implication; it’s not rude per se to be using it, but it’s definitely possible to want to avoid the implications and go for “-san” (despite that normally being upward-facing) or “-kun” (despite that being a bit more formal) instead.

On top of that, it should be noted that there is a difference between calling someone by their surname vs. their given name, mainly in terms of sense of distance -- formality usually dictates prioritizing surname first by default, someone really close with a particular friend can go as far as given name with no honorific, with the other extreme being using surname and adding an honorific. Likewise, “surname with no honorific” can imply a bit of bluntness yet mutual level of comfort in a relationship, while “given name with honorific” can imply politeness but still with a sense of tight friendship and familiarity -- basically, it’s a grey area. Fortunately, in the case of Adventure/02, this only really matters in the case of Ken (and, in one instance, Koushirou).

And finally, note that if two characters call each other a certain way long enough, honorifics can “stick” and even start taking on an “endearing nickname” sentiment -- which is why you might see a phenomenon of people still using honorifics on each other even when their closeness to each other might suggest otherwise. This is pertinent mainly in the case of certain characters who continue calling each other a certain way even after their relationship should suggest that they’ve gotten a lot closer -- the implication being that they’ve called each other that for so long that it feels weird to change now. (Yes, that even includes between dating and/or married couples.)

Incidentally, all Digimon partners (with the exception of Tentomon and Hawkmon, who use -han and -san respectively, and Wormmon, whose single-minded dedication to “Ken-chan” means he really doesn’t talk about anyone else other than a reference to “Izumi Koushirou-san on the phone” in 02 episode 26) simply refer to the humans by given name and no honorific (including humans who aren’t their partners); presumably they’re allowed this due to not being members of Japanese society per se, and therefore not being beholden to its standards.

To wrap this up, here’s a reminder of everyone’s school grade levels in relation to each other, from highest to lowest (note that we don’t actually know anyone’s specific birthdays, so we have to go by school years):

Jou

Taichi, Yamato, Sora

Koushirou, Mimi

Miyako

Takeru, Hikari, Daisuke, Ken

(empty space here)

Iori

Taichi

First-person pronoun: ore (assertive)

General honorifics pattern: Given name, no honorific for the boys (”Yamato”, “Jou”, “Daisuke”, etc.). Uses given name with “-chan” with most younger girls (”Mimi-chan”, “Miyako-chan”), the implication being that he simply treats them casually without being extra blunt or extra polite.

Parents: tou-san and kaa-san (still roughly respectful, but casual enough to drop the respectful o-).

Sora: As he’s known Sora for a while even before the events of Adventure, Taichi simply calls her “Sora” with no honorific.

Mimi: Taichi was known to call Mimi “Mimi-chan” in Adventure, which was consistent with how he called Miyako in 02, but in Kizuna it seems to be just “Mimi”. There are multiple potential interpretations, one being that something may have happened to make the two more intimately close between Adventure and Kizuna, one being that something happened to make Taichi feel that Mimi shouldn’t have a “diminutively endearing” honorific, one being that the scene in question was rather serious and he felt it wasn’t the right time...and one being that the writers simply just forgot.

Jou: Notably, Taichi’s lack of using honorifics for the boys also extends to Jou, who’s a year older than him, either because he’s fine being casual enough with Jou that he doesn’t mind violating propriety, or he made the same mistake as Yamato (see below) and initially mistook him for being in the same school year due to Jou not initially coming off as very senior-esque (unlike with Mimi, Jou wasn’t explicitly designated as the leader of the others’ camp groups).

Hikari: Hikari is Taichi’s sister, so he simply calls her “Hikari” with no honorific.

Other notes: Amusingly, while everyone calls Gennai “Gennai-san” for the most part, Taichi isn’t very patient with him at first and calls him “jiji” (old man) during Adventure, but seems to have gotten over himself and calls him “Gennai-san” in Kizuna. (Well, he’s not an old man anymore by then.) Unlike Taichi, Agumon uses boku (polite), despite the two characters otherwise being very like-minded. Agumon is a little more easygoing than Taichi in general, so it can be said that Agumon represents Taichi’s nature of not being altogether aggressive when it really comes down to it.

Yamato

First-person pronoun: ore (assertive)

General honorifics pattern: Given name, no honorific for the boys (”Taichi”, “Jou”, “Daisuke”, etc.). Like Taichi, he uses given name with “-chan” with most younger girls (“Hikari-chan”, “Miyako-chan”).

Parents: oyaji (think roughly in the sense of “my old man”) for his father, kaa-san (again, a bit more respectful but still rough enough to drop the o-) for his mother (whom he doesn’t live with).

Sora: Yamato omits the honorific for Sora, implying he considered her a close friend even during the time of Adventure.

Mimi: Notable mainly because of our lack of information about this; Yamato and Mimi never referred to each other over the course of Adventure or 02, and while Mimi’s way of referring to Yamato (”Yamato-san”) was easy to extrapolate even before Kizuna based on existing patterns, the reverse could go either way, depending on whether Yamato would see her as close enough to merit the drop. The Adventure mini dramas have him call her “Mimi-chan”, but this was in unison with everyone else, so it’s hard to tell whether it counts; the tri. stage play and the Kizuna novel has him drop the honorific.

Jou:  Like Taichi, he never uses any honorific with the one-year-older Jou, the canonical explanation being that he initially mistook Jou for being in the same year (well, not like Jou was acting as the epitome of a dignified senior...).

Ken: Yamato initially refers to him as “Ichijouji-kun” when discussing Ken’s circumstances with Iori in 02 episode 35, but during 02 episode 42, when Ken is now working directly with him and has integrated himself more as everyone’s friend, Yamato simply calls him “Ichijouji”, being more willing to speak to him on a more blunt/close level (but not quite knowing him as well as the other 02 kids, whom he’s on given name basis with).

Other notes: Yamato is the one Adventure senior who gets a lot of interaction with the 02 group in Kizuna, and interestingly, the four of them all call him “Yamato-senpai”, despite him not going to their school -- given that they’re dealing with a Digimon incident, the implication is that they’re treating him as an experienced senior in that respect. Despite what his shy personality would suggest, Gabumon in fact uses ore, like Yamato. Gabumon can be said to represent Yamato’s emotional core, so it is true that he can be very assertive when it really comes down to it.

Sora

First-person pronoun: Mostly used watashi in Adventure, with fairly uncommon lapses into atashi, fully moving to atashi by 02. This is consistent with her characterization difference between Adventure and 02, the latter of which portrayed her as quite a bit more assertive about what she wanted and rather less deferential (and also a lot more willing to come off as more feminine, at that). The tri. stage play sticks with atashi. Kizuna has her go back to watashi, which can possibly be taken as her deciding to be a bit more mature in her adult years -- basically, Sora is the kind of person where going either way fits her, since she’s capable of being assertive but also likes to carry herself calmly and maturely (and her teenage years are where you could most definitely believe she’d be the most aggressive about it).

General honorifics pattern: Uses “Jou-senpai” for Jou, treating him properly like a school elder. Given the rest of her way of using honorifics, most likely she’d use “-san” or “-senpai” for most elders. Uses given name plus “-kun” for younger boys (”Koushirou-kun”, “Daisuke-kun”) and “-chan” for younger girls (”Mimi-chan”, “Miyako-chan”). In other words, generally diligent about using honorifics, dropping it only with people she’s particularly close with.

Parents: Generally respectful okaa-san and otou-san.

Taichi: Having known Taichi as a peer for quite a long time prior to the events of the series, Sora simply just calls him “Taichi” with no honorific.

Yamato: Initially Sora calls him “Yamato-kun”, and it’s reasonable to extrapolate she probably would call most boys her age with the “-kun” honorific, but early in the series, Sora starts alternating between “-kun” and simply calling him “Yamato”, which allegedly was actually intentional to indicate foreshadowing of their building relationship. This alternation continues all the way into 02, even after they start dating -- Armor Evolution to the Unknown has her calling him “Yamato-kun” even when she refers to him super-endearingly (implying it really has become a nickname of sorts), while DSB has her drop the honorific, and both firmly depict them as dating. For what it’s worth, the tri. stage play and Kizuna also depict her as dropping the honorific.

Daisuke: Sora actually drops honorific for Daisuke, possibly due to knowing him from the soccer club.

Ken: “Ichijouji-kun” in 02 episode 38. This is in the context of her observing how much he’s changed, so, much like with the other seniors, she thinks well of him, she’s just not particularly close with him to merit moving to given name basis.

Other notes: Piyomon, who’s portrayed as clingy and affectionate, uses atashi from day one.

Koushirou

First-person pronoun: boku (polite)

General honorifics pattern: -san for everyone older (”Taichi-san”, “Jou-san”). “-kun” for younger boys (”Takeru-kun”, “Daisuke-kun”).

Parents: Generally respectful okaa-san and otou-san.

Mimi: Mimi is the same age as Koushirou, but Koushirou presumably doesn’t feel comfortable using the “affectionately endearing” “-chan” and would rather use the more respectful “-san” instead.

Hikari: Hikari is an unusual case in that she’s quite a bit younger than Koushirou, but Koushirou still calls her with “-san”. Presumably, he didn’t feel comfortable going with “-chan” like everyone else did (and presumably for the same reasons he won’t use it for Mimi either). This persists even all the way into 02, but interestingly, he calls Miyako differently (see below), so it’s hard to say what his stance would be on younger girls in general, or whether Hikari got special privileges due to the circumstances of how she met the group (as the younger sister of his respected senior Taichi, and as a fellow Chosen who met everyone during some rather personal circumstances detached from school). The tri. stage play floats up the idea that he might have accepted “Hikari-chan” by 2005, but Kizuna takes the stance that he’s still using “Hikari-san” in 2010.

Miyako: Koushirou, having met Miyako during some rather impersonal circumstances and initially only having a computer club senior-junior relationship with her, calls her “Miyako-kun”. Note again the avoidance of the “-chan”; he really doesn’t seem to want to use the “cute” honorific, and would rather treat her a little more formally.

Ken: Koushirou refers to Ken as “Ichijouji-kun” in general, Ken getting the surname basis as he joined the group on the level of him somewhat of a stranger to Koushirou compared to the other 02 kids. That said, this shows up even during their heart-to-heart in 02 episode 33, so other than the surname thing, it’s clear that Koushirou using the honorific is less detachment and him simply wanting to extend the same respect he uses for everyone else.

Other notes: Koushirou is infamous for using polite language (-masu, -desu, etc.) in every circumstance, including even with the Digimon (who are generally treated as being outside societal obligations of honorifics) and younger characters. The implication is that this came from Koushirou being deferential to everyone out of sense of distance and lack of self-esteem after his revelation of being adopted made him lose sense of his place in the world. In Adventure episodes 38 and 54, it’s made apparent that Koushirou wants to learn to speak more casually with others, but has difficulty doing so, and his parents and Tentomon assure him that he doesn’t need to force himself. Koushirou continues speaking this way even into 02 and Kizuna, but the epilogue implies that he at least doesn’t do this with his daughter (and the Character Complete File that he at least broke out of this with Tentomon). Tentomon uses Kansai dialect, which is stereotyped as being associated with easygoing and less book-smart characters (in contrast to Koushirou, and also for the absurd humor of the terrifying-looking Kabuterimon speaking this way), but he also uses the polite form, so he can be said to match Koushirou in this way by simply being polite and deferential to others in general. While most Digimon don’t use honorifics for humans, Tentomon also uses “-han” (the Kansai variant of “-san”) on any human he talks to.

Mimi

First-person pronoun: atashi (casual). Mimi is normally a very polite girl, but she also likes being in-your-face cute, so her usage of the pronoun is in line with this.

General honorifics pattern: -san for any and all elders (”Taichi-san”, “Sora-san”), -kun for younger boys (”Koushirou-kun”, “Daisuke-kun”), and -chan for younger girls (”Hikari-chan”, “Miyako-chan”). Mimi is depicted as having been raised as a sort of “lady of the house” (ojou-sama) personality due to having been spoiled by her parents, so she’s basically a “spoiled sweet” sort of girl who is polite and respectful to pretty much everyone -- hence why her speech pattern is uniformly consistent across everything. Of course, since she’s also very fond of “acting cute” and proud of it, younger girls like Hikari and Miyako get the cute “-chan”. The sole exception to her pattern is “Jou-senpai” (see Jou’s section on why).

Parents: Super-affectionate “Mama” and “Papa”, in line with the over-the-top lovey-dovey-ness of the Tachikawa household. Mimi’s mom goes as far as to endearingly call her “Mimi-chan” (her father is just “Mimi”).

Ken: Referred to Ken as “Ichijouji-kun” starting in 02 episode 25. This was in a context of her wanting to get him in to help, so she clearly has no ill will with him, she just doesn’t know him all that well compared to the other 02 kids.

Other notes: Palmon, who also enjoys acting cute, uses atashi much like the like-minded Mimi.

Jou

First-person pronoun: boku (polite). There’s an incident where he famously slips into ore when trying to intercede in the argument between Taichi and Yamato during Adventure episode 8, so it can be taken that he does have it in him to be more assertive if he lets his emotions take control of him, but otherwise is deferential.

General honorifics pattern: Interestingly, Jou seems to consider himself close enough to the older boys in the Adventure group to use given name with no honorific (”Taichi”, “Yamato”, “Koushirou”), despite what his insistence on societal propriety might make you think. In other words, he can be very casual when he really wants to be. With the girls, he generally uses given name plus “-kun” (”Sora-kun”, “Mimi-kun”), the implication being that he doesn’t like using the affectionate “-chan” on them and wants to keep them at a somewhat respectful and polite distance rather than the more casual manner he treats the boys with. Likewise, boys who are a certain level of younger than Jou are on given name basis plus “-kun” (”Takeru-kun”, “Daisuke-kun”); since this includes Takeru, who was also part of the Adventure group, it seems to have more to do with closeness based on age than anything. It’s unclear what he would do with elders since he’s the oldest depicted of the twelve, but most likely he’d at least be consistent about his -san and -senpai if he’s not particularly close with them.

Parents: Jou was never depicted with his parents in the series proper, but in Armor Evolution to the Unknown he uses “tou-san” for his father and “kaa-san” for his mother (generally respectful but still somewhat casual).

Shin and Shuu: Jou is depicted as calling them “Shin-niisan” and “Shuu-niisan” respectively.

Hikari: Jou’s one major reference to Hikari in Adventure was “Hikari-chan” -- presumably, Hikari being so young that it’s okay in his book to use the endearing honorific. The tri. stage play has him use “Hikari-kun”, so you can maybe presume he now sees her as old enough to be treated with the more formal honorific. Because both cases are somewhat isolated (one showing up really only once in the series and one being from a writer who may not have caught that one time), it’s difficult to make a projection.

Other notes: Jou infamously seems to exude such a “school senior” aura that he’s occasionally called “Jou-senpai” in settings where other characters might use “-san” for others (mainly Mimi, whose initial relationship to him was being under his responsibility in their summer camp group, and the 02 kids, who jump on using “-senpai” for him much faster than they do most of their other Adventure seniors, despite not even going to the same school as him). This has led to the Japanese fanbase often latching onto calling him “Jou-senpai” affectionately. Gomamon infamously uses the first-person pronoun oira, which is basically like the assertive ore but with a more laid-back and almost country bumpkin-esque air to it. It’s much in line with his very laid-back and playful personality, the complete opposite of Jou’s.

Takeru

First-person pronoun: boku (polite). This is actually a plot point; Adventure episode 12 (which is a Takeru focus episode) also uses boku in its title, and the narration for the 02 episode 50 preview suddenly uses boku, culminating in the reveal that the narrator was Takeru the whole time.

General honorifics pattern: Consistently uses given name “-san” for all elders (”Taichi-san”, “Jou-san”, “Miyako-san”, etc.). Uses given name plus “-kun” for boys who are the same age or younger (”Daisuke-kun”, “Iori-kun”). Hikari is “Hikari-chan”, so he’s comfortable enough to use the endearing honorific (although it might just be because it’s Hikari, whom he happens to personally know very well). In general, Takeru is a fairly polite person and adheres reasonably well to honorific propriety.

Parents: Super-affectionate and somewhat childish “Mama” and “Papa” in Adventure; generally respectful “okaa-san” for his mother and ever so slightly more casual “tou-san” for his father in 02.

Yamato: In Adventure, Takeru initially calls Yamato “onii-chan”, the “o-” being respectful, and “-chan” being endearing. He carries this into 02 as well. Given that it’s unlikely for him to continue doing this much longer after 02, different media ended up going in different directions with this; DSB went with “nii-san” (still very respectful, but missing the “o-” and not as “cutesy”), the tri. stage play went with aniki (one of its few holdovers from the tri. anime; somewhat more blunt and less respectful), and Kizuna uses DSB’s “nii-san”.

Ken: Takeru starts off calling him “Ichijouji-kun” when they’re just starting to get to know each other. This does happen to persist even as their relationship gets deeper and Takeru significantly warms up to him, culminating in him still seeming to call him this by Kizuna’s drama CD, but it seems to be more out of politeness/respect (or, most likely, habit, considering how long it took for Ken to get on good terms with everyone in the group) by this point. (Ironically, this is a significant improvement over when Takeru had punched out the Kaiser in 02 episode 17, in which his references had been an extremely passive-aggressive “Ichijouji-san” and a more genuinely angry “Ichijouji” -- once everything had calmed down, Takeru presumably felt that he at least deserved proper respect.)

Other notes: Patamon uses boku, much like Takeru, which is probably meant to accentuate his “childishness” (in Adventure) and general like-mindedness with Takeru and easygoing nature (in 02).

Hikari

First-person pronoun: watashi in Adventure, atashi in 02, watashi in the tri. stage play and Kizuna (specifically the drama CD). This is likely for similar reasons to Sora in that Hikari was portrayed as rather deferential to others in Adventure but got quite a bit more assertive in 02, then, as she got older, went back to carrying herself a bit more maturely (and, if the tri. stage play is to be believed, went back to it at an earlier age, presumably since she’s more on the polite side than Sora), albeit still of course bright and assertive when she wants to be.

Parents: Generally respectful okaa-san and otou-san.

General honorifics pattern: Much like Takeru, she consistently uses given name with “-san” for all elders (”Sora-san”, “Koushirou-san”, “Miyako-san”). Uses given name plus “-kun” for boys of the same age or younger (”Takeru-kun”, “Daisuke-kun”). It’s unclear what she would do with younger girls, but she probably wouldn’t be averse to using “-chan”. All in all, much like Takeru, she’s fairly polite and adheres to honorific propriety.

Taichi: Hikari consistently calls Taichi “onii-chan”. Given Hikari’s personality as a lot more willing to come off as “cute”, this is in line with her.

Ken: Like Takeru, Hikari starts off calling him “Ichijouji-kun” and sticks with it even after the group accepts him; again, Ken took an unusually long time to get on good terms with everyone in the group, by which time the surname basis had likely become habit for her, Takeru, and Iori.

Other notes: Because Hikari is called “Hikari-chan” by so many characters, the Japanese fanbase tends to attach the honorific to her name a lot when discussing her. Tailmon’s first-person pronoun usage mirrors Hikari’s in that she uses watashi in Adventure, atashi in 02, and watashi in the tri. stage play and Kizuna drama CD -- beyond mirroring Hikari, it also exemplifies 02 being the point in time when Tailmon seemed to be keen on making use of her new life and freedom.

Daisuke

First-person pronoun: ore (assertive)

General honorifics pattern: Consistently uses “-san” (”Taichi-san”, “Koushirou-san”) and/or “-senpai” for his elders (mostly “-san”), with the exception of Miyako (see below) -- in general Daisuke is actually quite respectful of his seniors in the Adventure group. For his friends in the 02 group, he eschews honorifics entirely and generally goes to given name basis with no honorific (”Takeru”, “Iori”), with the exception of Hikari (see below), so when it comes to people he’s actually closer with on a personal level, he doesn’t really seem fond of keeping distance with honorifics (much like Taichi and Yamato).

Parents: Doesn’t directly address his parents in the series proper, but the Character Complete File supplies “tou-san” and “kaa-san” (generally respectful but casual).

Jun: Refers to her as “aneki” (blunt and in-your-face).

Taichi: Although Daisuke has used both “-san” and “-senpai” for both Yamato and Jou, Taichi is the one where the interchangeability is most clear, since Daisuke has a particular relation to him as his respected soccer club senior.

Hikari: Consistently calls her “Hikari-chan”. The implication is, of course, that he sees her as cute and endearing, although it’s also completely possible he’d use “-chan” for any other similar age or younger girl he develops a particular rapport with (he does go along with Mimi’s suggestion of “Nat-chan” in The Door to Summer).

Miyako: Omits the honorific with her and simply calls her “Miyako”, despite her being a year older. The implication is that they banter so much and are so like-minded that he feels comfortable being more abrupt with her. She personally doesn’t seem to mind, especially given that, when Daisuke momentarily gets a bit disoriented and calls her “Miyako-san” in 02 episode 30, she complains that it sounds weird (meaning that it sounds weird coming from him, given that everyone else in the group calls her this).

Ken: Initially calls him “Ichijouji” prior to 02 episode 39, having just gotten out of the fights with him as the Kaiser and not quite being on personal friendship levels with him (much less treat him at a “polite distance”), but still wanting to handle him casually in his bid to integrate him into the group and get to know him better. He first drops the idea of switching to given name basis and calling him “Ken” in 02 episode 30, and is depicted as directly switching to it on-screen and committing to it when declaring Ken to be his friend in 02 episode 39. From then on, with Ken as basically his best and most important friend, he sticks with it.

Other notes: Being the very active and playful type, V-mon uses ore, just like Daisuke.

Ken

First-person pronoun: boku (polite); that includes as the Kaiser, implying that he was trying to portray himself as “regal and dignified” during that time.

General honorifics pattern: “-san” for all elders (”Koushirou-san”, “Miyako-san”), although he also uses “Yamato-senpai” in Kizuna (implying a sort of “Digimon senior” relationship with him and potentially other seniors by that point). Given name plus “-kun” for Iori, and presumably all younger boys. Ken generally uses given name basis for everyone, including the seniors; however, because he started off using “Motomiya-kun” and “Izumi-san” for Daisuke and Koushirou respectively before eventually shifting to “Daisuke” and “Koushirou-san”, it’s implied that this wasn’t necessarily the case when he was still initially ashamed of being around everyone.

Parents: Super-affectionate “Mama” and “Papa”, and his mother calls him “Ken-chan” in return (he’s just “Ken” from his father). The history behind this is really complicated, but the point is that the family is very affectionate when it all comes down to it.

Daisuke: Initially alternated between “Motomiya-kun” and “Motomiya” (phasing out the former as the series went on), having been in an awkward position of Daisuke so prominently having opposed him before suddenly getting in his face trying to befriend him. He drops a “Daisuke” (no honorific) in his head in 02 episode 26 and once outwardly in 02 episode 39, and while he never quite commits to given name basis during 02 itself, he uses it in DSB and in most postcanonical material, including Kizuna, indicating that with their relationship having gotten so close, Ken eventually got over himself and started referring to Daisuke as such.

Hikari: Hikari is the same age as Ken, but he calls her “Hikari-san”. Since the circumstances of why Ken wouldn’t use “-chan” with her are apparent (given his relationship to the 02 group at the time, it would have been incredibly inappropriate for him to use an “endearing” honorific with her), it’s hard to tell whether he would have extended this to all other girls his age or younger, or whether his way of referring to Hikari would have changed as he got to know the 02 group better (our latest point in time is Spring 2003, where he still calls her “Hikari-san”, but past that, it’s unknown).

Takeru: Notable mainly in our lack of information about this -- other than Daisuke (see above), Takeru is the only other boy his age that we get to see, and 02 never actually has Ken use his name in the series, so there’s been dispute over whether it would be “Takeru-san” or “Takeru-kun” (with a larger camp going for the latter, since Ken’s not averse to using downward-facing honorifics, he just clearly didn’t want to use “-chan” for Hikari at the time). There have also been interpretations that Ken might have been on surname basis with Takeru for at least a while; this is also ambiguous, given that he was initially on surname basis with Daisuke but went straight to given name basis with Iori (who, at the time, hated him the most out of the 02 kids).

Other notes: Nobody in the Adventure/02 group of kids actually calls him “Ken-chan”, but Wormmon and his family calling him this stuck so much in memory that the fanbase (and, at times, even official staff) constantly defaults to endearingly calling him this. Wormmon himself uses boku, much like Ken (and also in line with his generally polite disposition).

Miyako

First-person pronoun: atashi (casual). Does occasionally use watashi (polite), but this is very, very rare.

General honorifics pattern: Uniformly given name “-san” for all elders and seniors (”Sora-san”, “Mimi-san”), with the exception of Koushirou (see below), and seems to not be averse to using “-senpai” in certain cases. Generally uses given name plus “-kun” for younger boys she’s good friends with (”Takeru-kun”, “Ken-kun”), but will eschew it if she has a particular rapport with them (see below). Uses “-chan” for Hikari, and likely other younger girls as well. In general, Miyako’s neutrally polite to others “by default”, but is a bit more willing to be in-your-face with people when she deems them to be particularly close.

Parents: Uses “kaa-san” for her mother (generally respectful but casual). She’s not seen addressing her father directly within the course of 02. The Character Complete File supplies “okaa-san” and “otou-san” (overall respectful).

Siblings: Miyako isn’t seen addressing Mantarou directly during 02, and her only direct address to her sisters is in Armor Evolution to the Unknown, during which she calls them “onee-chan-tachi”, implying that she may call them “onee-chan” (respectful, endearing) individually.

Koushirou: Having looked up to him as a computer club senior (but not really having known him personally at the time) prior to the events of 02, Miyako starts off the series calling him “Izumi-senpai”. While she is depicted as briefly calling him “Koushirou-san” in 02 episode 33, most portrayals stick with “Izumi-senpai” (even Kizuna), and given that she calls the other Adventure seniors by given name honorific, the implication is that it really has stuck too much with her, given the way she looks up to him.

Mimi: After bonding with Mimi in 02 episode 6 and fantasizing about Mimi being a sister-like figure to her, Miyako starts calling her “Mimi-oneesama” (”older sister Mimi”). While she does carry this into 02 episode 14, this only crops up when Miyako is in a particularly cheerful or playful mood; when things get serious, she goes back to using “Mimi-san” as usual.

Daisuke: Unusually, she only calls him “Daisuke”, with no honorific like she does Takeru. The implication is that, with how they bounce off and bicker with each other, she considers him enough of a peer to just go straight for the name (especially since she’s averse to Daisuke calling her with an honorific in turn; see above).

Ken: Initially called him “Ken-kun” while gushing over him in 02 episode 8 (not knowing he was the Kaiser), basically fantasizing over the idea of being close to him. Once his true nature was revealed and the fight with the Kaiser ended, Miyako initially kept him at distance as “Ichijouji-kun” when contemplating her feelings on him, but immediately started going back to using “Ken-kun” after solidifying her intent to have him on the team in 02 episode 25, committing to it fully in 02 episode 30 after the incident that led to her slapping him. She is the first person on the 02 team to use given name for him; the implication is that she deliberately decided to start calling him this because of how much she wanted to reach out to him and consider him a friend, with no illusions of standoffishness, and the fact she made this kind of conscious change so early into knowing him is likely why she didn’t end up getting habituated into surname basis like Takeru and Iori seem to have.

Iori: Miyako never uses an honorific for him, simply calling him “Iori”; the implication is that this is from her background of having known him as a neighbor and friend prior to the events of 02.

Other notes: Hawkmon uses “watashi”, which is in line with his very formal and polite attitude. He also perpetually uses polite-form Japanese, and is one of the few Digimon to use honorifics, adding “-san” to everyone’s names.

Iori

First-person pronoun: boku (polite)

General honorifics pattern: Consistently “-san” for everyone older than him (”Koushirou-san”, “Daisuke-san”), occasionally “-senpai” if the circumstance is right (very rarely). Since he’s the youngest of this group, we don’t get to see much about how he would address younger people, but it’s likely “-kun” would be in play to at least some degree. In general, he’s extremely adherent to societal propriety.

Family: Generally respectful okaa-san and otou-san in reference to his parents. His grandfather is “ojii-sama”, getting an elevated honorific due to his extra tier of formal respect from Iori.

Ken: Iori calls him “Ichijouji-san”; by the time he fully warms up to Ken (which takes him the longest of any of the 02 kids), he still calls him this, all the way up to the Kizuna drama CD. Presumably, it also got habituated.

Other notes: Like Koushirou, Iori speaks to everyone formally and politely with the -masu/-desu forms, but in Iori’s case, it’s implied to be part of his strict and formal upbringing, and something he consciously has to hold himself to -- unlike Koushirou, who had to actively force himself to try and speak casually, Iori speaks casually on-and-off with the Digimon, and actually has multiple moments of slipping into casual speech whenever he loses control of his emotions or gets sufficiently angry. Because of this, it’s hard to tell if he’d continue to speak formally with younger people, although Kizuna depicts him as at least speaking that way with his peers in school. Armadimon uses the assertive ore and speaks in Nagoya dialect, giving him an image of a very rough-around-the-edges but laid-back type.

#digimon #digimon adventure #digimon adventure 02 #digimon adventure last evolution kizuna #shihameta

[arcelian]

anyway what i was GOING to say before i went out of bounds on the tumblr post editor and destroyed it was.

that i continue to be disappointed by the fact that botw fic writers (at least from what i've found) seem to be largely uninterested in writing about link's canon backstory (what little of it we get) in ways that are interesting to me, personally

like, i would love to see more about link and the zoras! that is a wildly unexplored topic! whether or not you're into mipha/link, he still lived there, the king presumably knew his family for a few years at least, plus the fact there's adults there who were his playmates once. there's potential family there.

and also i think a lot about mipha's diary specifically, and how she says baby link was very different from how he was after drawing the master sword and becoming a knight. and how... depending on your characterization of present link, you could draw a line from that kid to how he is now? i like to think that link now has a lot in common with his childhood self. i've seen a lot of fic where link sees himself as a completely separate person from the stoic knight in his memories, and where that's played for angst, but i think it could be neat to follow it up with someone like the king, or the zora elders, pointing out that that wasn't what link was really like before, that he was more complicated than that. yanno?

#loz #botw #[holds up tiny baby honorary zora link] i just think hes neat #nunnery life

[nobodysuspectsthebutterfly]

Hello! If you don't mind me asking, are you planning on watching House of the Dragon? I'm personally unsure about it. I was cautiously optimistic about it since D&D are not involved, but the recent casting news have been ugh disappointing imo. What do you think?

Hey anon! Sorry to say I kind of mind you asking because my inbox is still closed (to everyone except my secret Santas, which is why the ask page is accessible at all), but then I realized it’s possible if you’re on the mobile app only, you haven’t seen said note in my askbox, or my FAQ, or anything of the sort. And with older metas of mine being reblogged recently, it’s possible you may be confused. (I hope you’re on mobile only and not just ignoring my requests.) So I wanted to inform you of that... but also, y’know, I kind of wanted to make a post about the HotD cast anyway? And this ask is as good a prompt as any... so, you’re lucky, but please don’t push your luck. ;)

So, straight up: I currently have no plans to watch House of the Dragon. HBO is not getting any of my goddamn money, I don’t trust like that. And hunting down illegal livestreaming sites is a pain in the ass and I regret ever doing it for GoT, as well as regretting getting drunk every weekend enough to dampen my senses to ever tolerate that show. Yeah it’s different showrunners and writers, I know. It’s still (mostly) the same executives at HBO and even if the pervert producer is gone (or is he?), you know they still just want to sell sex and violence and dragons to an audience that thinks fantasy is for geeks.

Also, considering that Fire & Blood’s story of Dance of the Dragons has very little actual narrative or dialogue, and the historical record is deliberately untrustworthy, that gives them pretty much full rein to do whatever they like with the story and characterization and words without even being slightly obliged to GRRM at all. Furthermore, since the story is wholly political with virtually none of the magical side of ASOIAF (excepting dragons), and honestly does not have much in the way of themes or depth that main ASOIAF or even D&E has, I think it will be very hard for an adaptation to show even those brief sparks of quality that used to make me wistful GoT couldn’t be that good all the time and eventually just made me frustrated and depressed. Note I do like the history and characters of the Dance despite myself, despite its many many many textual issues, but I don’t need to see an adaptation, I have a very visual imagination. I don’t watch a lot of television to begin with, I don’t see why I should start again with this.

However, I’m not going to avoid spoilers or discussion, and I’ll probably follow the show the tumblr way, through gifsets and video clips and people bitching on their blogs etc. If, somehow, by some miracle of good screenwriting and acting, the show manages to transcend its source material, I’m sure I will be informed. And then, if and only if then, I may try watching. (Without, of course, giving HBO any of my goddamn money.) We shall see.

(Though I certainly don’t know why anyone in Targ standom would ever watch a Dance adaptation considering almost every Targaryen and everyone else in the story is terrible except Helaena and the kids, and considering how the story ends, unless y’all are gluttons for punishment? (I do not comprehend hatewatching, sorry.) It’ll probably be fun at first to see the adventures of those “precious silver douchebags” (to borrow a friend’s tag), but eventually rocks fall, everyone dies, including the girlboss you know you’ll hope the story will be changed enough that she succeeds. Just letting you know now, she won’t.)

That said. I’ve been following the casting news and I think the hate/fear/wild screaming is entirely overblown. Yeah, I know, but wait, just listen. On Friday I officially welcomed @naomimakesart to the “favorite character is now played by an actor who looks nothing like most fanart and is mostly known for wildly different roles” club. I still remember that day in September 2009 when my brother texted me “yarp”... and that right there is the thing. Yeah. Rory McCann looks very little like most pre-GoT Sandor fanart... but many fans grew to love him anyway. (There are some who never did, of course. And yeah the character went off the rails by the end, but truly, who didn’t. Having seen his audition, having spoken to him and heard him wistfully talk about book scenes he loved, I’m convinced if Rory had only been given Sandor’s actual scenes and such, he would’ve killed it. Sigh. Deep, deep sigh.)

And Rory isn’t the only one. Neither of the actors for Jaime and Cersei were considered “beautiful” enough at first. I recall very clearly people bitching about Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (about his nose particularly?) because they had wanted Tarzan-era Travis Fimmel to be Jaime. (Seeing people bitch because current-Fimmel isn’t playing Daemon made me laugh out loud for both BEYONCE?! meme -type “why would you ever cast him omg he doesn’t fit my headcanon Daemon at all”, and amazing amounts of fandom flashbacks.) Lena Headey was “too square-jawed”, “too mean-looking” (since at the beginning you should never be able to guess she’s evil), “too dark-complected”, “too mannish”, not at all attractive enough. (Tricia Helfer was the most common “but I wanted” for Cersei, btw.) And of course “they don’t remotely look like twins, ugh!” Note, there’s receipts for all of this, none of it is made up. (Unfortunately.) Those two actors are just the ones whose casting wank I recall most clearly, particularly because oh how the turn tables.

Also. You know, there’s a post with Matt Smith and Mark Simonetti’s TWOIAF Daemon going around with shrieks of horror... and I’m finding it maddening in a “am I crazy? am I  the crazy one???” way, because Matt looks like the painting. Their features are not that dissimilar.

Same deepset eyes. Same cheekbones of doom. Same thin lips. Same protruding chin. Same high forehead. Same invsible eyebrows ffs. Matt has a squarer jaw, and a longer more rectangular face, and a wider nose, but considering that Daemon’s features are not described in the text, and this is the only official ASOIAF artwork that shows Daemon’s face straight on, I can for sure see why he was probably shortlisted to begin with. And that’s not even getting into to his role in The Crown, which I’ve heard is very well played with politics and palace intrigue... and if you doubt Smith can play seductive/roguish and/or evil (depending on how you LARP as a Westeros historian), or look good with long hair... well. I do not want to watch the movie, but this trailer is disturbingly enlightening.

And as for Rhaenyra... y’all know this show is starting at the beginning of the story, right? When she’s a teenager? Not a voluptuous MILF? Yeah, Emma D’Arcy doesn’t look like a Magali Villeneueve painting (though who does, good lord), but you know who she does look remarkably like? Harry Lloyd.

Same jawline. Same nose. Same thin lips. Same sharp cheekbones. Notably, same kind of sharp cheekbones and deep-set eyes as Matt Smith. HBO evidently has a concept of a “Targaryen look” that’s a little bit quirkier than supermodel-Greek statue-gods on earth, yeah, fine. But it’s consistent, and they look like family, and that-- that is good casting.

And yeah, in a few months to a year or so, you’ll see them in costume and wigs and makeup, you’ll see them in motion and speaking lines, and go Oh. That’s different. Never mind. And while people will make fanart of the show depictions of the characters and those will probalby get popular, they’ll also keep doing fanart of their pre-show headcanons, and those too will be popular. (God knows when I draw or visualize book!Sandor, Rory does not come to mind, lol.) Either way, there’s no reason to panic. We’ll live.

(Though will we live well? Got to wait on the writing and showrunning for that, alas.)

#asoiaf #house of the dragon #daemon targaryen #rhaenyra targaryen #matt smith #emma d'arcy #sandor clegane #rory mccann #jaime lannister #nikolaj coster waldau #cersei lannister #lena headey #casting #fire and blood #the dance of the dragons #house targaryen #oh fandom #how the turn tables #i am not the crazy one #rocks fall! everyone dies! #anonymous asks #edit note: also if the rumors of doing a racebent casting of the velaryons are true i think that's awesome

[rayshippouuchiha]

Do you reckon your characterization of Bucky will be in any way influenced by FATWS? I find it interesting how wildly different eg. Steve's characterization is in 2012 Avengers Tower fics and post-Civil War fics. Canon MCU goes on and interprets a character however wrong they want, but does it influence writers too?

I’ll probably cherry pick depending on the AU I’m working with but FATWS does give us a good baseline for what a recovering Bucky can be like so it’ll probably help a lot of writers flesh him out even more.

#MCU #niquesse #RayRambles

[mashounen2003]

Sonic opinions - 1

Honestly, I think it's time for me to give closure to the “Sonic fan phase” of my life. I’ll keep playing the games if they pique my interest, but in terms of the stories they tell and how their characters are portrayed, these games no longer appeal to me. The comic currently published by IDW isn’t complete garbage nor does it have so much drama and controversy surrounding it, in addition to having Whisper and Tangle, two characters I really like at least on a conceptual level, but the story and characterizations are leaving me deeply disappointed and sometimes fall even lower than the recent games written by Pontac & Graff, namely with regard to the characterization of Sonic himself.

The continuity of the TV series Sonic SatAM and the comics published by Archie was always the branch of the franchise that truly caught my attention and is my main source of inspiration for writing stories; in fact, SatAM was the way I found out about Sonic and became a fan in the first place. But this “North-American continuity” is already as dead as the Mega Man Legends saga, and it looks like the vast majority want to forget it as if each and every one of its elements and ideas inherently had just been a massive nightmare regardless of its execution by the writers. At best, the fandom currently sees this branch of Sonic as some silly “edgy” attempt to take the franchise seriously, something that may have been laudable but was always foolish and doomed to fail and is such a risky gamble that it's not worth trying again.

I'm also getting fed up with the Sonic fandom in general, despite sharing a lot of opinions with some individual fans. Yes, I know there are already many who have declared this for the most varied reasons, be it the “shipp wars”, something in Sonic or even the franchise as a whole suddenly becoming “cringe” due to a whim of a majority portion of the fandom, or the way Sonic reuses "hackneyed" tropes in an alleged demonstration of lack of originality; however, when someone gives Sonic the middle finger for this kind of reasons, they usually do it hypocritically.

No, what got me tired of the Sonic fandom is the way everyone becomes obsessed with picking one branch of the franchise, calling it "the true Sonic", claiming this is the only pure and genuine incarnation of the “soul of Sonic” (if there really is such a thing), marking as “foreigner” every character, concept or element from any other branch of the franchise, and demanding from the fans of those other branches to get on their knees and be thankful that the "True Fans (TM)" even allow them to stay in the fandom. Note that I’m not accusing fans of only one specific portion of the franchise: there are such people among fans of the videogames’ continuity, @skull001 being probably the worst offender, but there’s also that kind of people among the SatAM and Archie-Sonic fans, such as the “nostalgic” delusional pissbabies, blatantly homophobic and conservative, who are now supporting Twitter hashtags like “Rally4Sally” and “Udon4Sonic”. You may think this is actually something typical of all fandoms, but it’s not: this is truly something unique to the Sonic fandom; I don't see huge hordes of Mega Man fans bullying the Legends fandom or making fun of them for the way their favourite saga ended two decades ago; even in the Dragon Ball fandom, despite constant discussions about what is canon and what is not, there’s some kind of tacit consensus that GT and Super are two offshoots of the franchise, equally valid although not coexisting in one same fictional universe (although Shūeisha itself seems to officially support this view, which certainly helps prevent some discourse), while the only part of Dragon Ball universally despised (and rightly so) is Dragon Ball Evolution.

I'm sorry if this hurts some people’s sensibilities, but if I decide to write a story with any given set of characters, elements, concepts, setting, internal rules and whatnot, the only thing in my mind will be to write a mildly decent story. I'm not here to “honour” -let alone honour at all costs- some supposed legacy and traditions that some people say should be upheld by each and every Sonic content creator. And let’s be brutally frank: we’re talking about a franchise that started as platformer 16-bit videogames whose sole purpose was to show SEGA’s consoles were better and handled speed better than Nintendo's; SEGA never really intended to tell a story or portray its characters consistently, only later did the cast begin to receive more defined personalities and the games start telling stories because SEGA suddenly saw this would make them sell more, and even that varied wildly according to whatever seemed more convenient at the time; not to mention SEGA's unique habit of entering vicious cycles of failure and over-correction, where Sonic Team makes a few mistakes in a game that did everything else more or less well, SEGA throws away the entire game along with the foundations on which it was built and the story that was told by that game, Sonic Team makes a new game with absolutely everything replaced and makes mistakes again but those mistakes are different from those of the previous game, the process is repeated ad nauseam and no-one is ever satisfied with anything. A few Sonic fans trying to impose on every other fan a supposed single Sonic canon with some kind of official approval seal by SEGA & Sonic Team is something quite backward, because that single official canon almost never really existed, and if it does exist, it makes no sense and is internally inconsistent, dependent on the creation of new games, and very likely to be retconned, overwritten and modified at any time.

There are other "bad habits" of the Sonic fandom that have led me to break ties with them. One of them is the way many fans take one trait of a character, be it simply one of many facets of their personality or even a physical trait, and turn that into the entire personality of the character; many of those same fans are also massive hypocrites, complaining (albeit rightfully) about how SEGA oversimplifies Shadow into either “Sasuke the Hedgehog” or “Vegeta the Hedgehog”, but then they do the same as SEGA. One of the cases in which this is most evident is when they make Sonic's personality boil down to "gotta go fast" and "be a free spirit"; based on that, they denounce that Sonic saying "I would slow down for you" to one of his closest friends (even if Sonic and Sally weren’t a couple when he said that and/or you don’t support that shipp, it can be said she was at least one of his closest friends in the SatAM-Archie continuity) contradicts the very essence of the character, or they do something even worse: saying that "being a free spirit" means being away from your friends and not having "ties" (like... literal ties, made with ropes, the ones that are actually a bad thing) with anything or anyone. It's like when Goku is portrayed by Dragon Ball fans as far more insensitive than the actual way Akira Toriyama had conceived him and always wrote and portrayed him in his official work.

There are also the plainly disturbing ideas many fans seem to have about personal relationships, judging by the opinions they give about the relationships of Sonic and the rest of the cast. In addition to making everything revolve around vaguely defined words and concepts they throw right and left almost without thinking about their actual meaning, they also seem to believe that having friends and caring for them, or any kind of responsibility no matter what kind it is, is nothing but a drag, like rat-s*** stopping you on your way to "freedom" (this is just amazing: they say the entire Western canon is edgy and the British comic’s Sonic is a jerk, but if you think about this for a bit, these fans’ version of Sonic turns out to be even edgier and more of a jerk than Shadow in his spin-off videogame); in the case of Archie-Sonic, there are all the abuse apologists supporting Scourge and Fiona being a couple, even though you don’t need any “meta” analysis to see he’s (at the very least) verbally abusive towards her and had attracted her by posing as someone else in the first place.

#sonic fanfiction by mashounen #sonic opinions by mashounen #sonic #sonic the hedgehog #sonic comics #archie sonic #sonic the comic #british sonic #japanese sonic #western sonic #idw sonic #fleetway sonic #scourge the hedgehog #shadow the hedgehog #sally acorn #fiona fox #dragon ball #akira toriyama #mega man #megaman #rockman #megaman legends #mega man legends #rockman dash #sega #sonic team #sonic satam #fandom #sonic fandom #ken pontac

[rigelmejo]

Dude I was on the language learning forms as I do sometimes, and someone was lamenting the lack of Chinese content to immerse in (watch, read etc). And how it was hard to find and they didn’t have this problem with Japanese what should they do?

Well. 1. I get their frustration on one level, as I do think Japanese content is so much more mainstream to watch in English speaking countries (at least anime and Japanese video games), that trying to find content in a language where it’s harder to just find content right on Netflix or from a friends recommendation does bring up a new challenge. Whereas with Japanese, probably you could accidentally stumble onto it or have a friend recommend you something, then at least explore deeper with some idea of what you liked/where to start finding it.

However. The person also sort of thought the lack of content was due to Chinese just not having as much content or as interesting content. Again I’m going to assume their key issue was just - it can be a new challenge finding media if you have a harder time just starting.

Because lol?? Chinese has SO much content. Like as far as language content on the internet alone??? Chinese has been eons easier to find than Japanese for me, and in terms of sites I actually use regularly is much closer to my experience of English online (there’s so much Chinese content online... so much... an incredible amount... like in chinese I’ve even found free movie watching sites FOR shows in English - like the way I find sites in English to watch Chinese shows IN chinese lol! Like you can use English to search for Chinese stuff, and literally do the reverse to find English stuff, there is so much Chinese stuff... I found more stuff in Japanese using bilibili in chinese than I could find of Japanese using YouTube In English). And Chinese drama land is HUGE it feels as active as American television, so you have endless genres to dive into and companies and actors and writers etc (there is a distinct lack of sci fi though as far as I’ve seen, but to be fair america isn’t making a Ton of sci fi compared to like Detective shows either - it’s just English speaking sci fi has had some more good ones in recent years). There is no lack of Chinese content out there. There’s audiobooks, dramas, audio dramas, talk shows, radio, fanfiction, novels, fanart, manhua, sites to find other stuff, forums, weibo, search sites, just a lot?? Like, if you think Japanese has enough internet content then there is an adequate amount of Chinese content on the internet too lol. You just may have to do a touch more initial exploration.

I just. Thought the assumption “can’t find media means their media sucks” was funny. Because also? I have not found that to be true. I know very little about Thai media. I just happened upon SOTUS cause of a friend talking about it. So like someone watching anime conveniently - I got into it. It was good, so I dug, and found a lot of amazing Thai shows (and some I didn’t love cause lol genres all have a mix of quality depending on show etc). There IS a ton of amazing Thai shows that exist right now. But if all you ever found was SOTUS? While it was great when I saw it to me, once I found more I realized there was a LOT better stuff. So like if you see one cdrama on Netflix (if that’s how you first easily find the media), that does not mean all shows will be that quality or anything like them! And just cause it’s the first one you found doesn’t mean they’re all like that ones quality.

Like I had a similar experience with jdramas growing up, so I get it. I was into anime, saw some (trainwreck) live action adaptations. And as a teenage just blanket assumed all Japanese live action media was gonna be around that quality. And then in recent years, I checked out some Japanese live action media - to see if new stuff was better. YEAH IT SURE IS (and I would imagine some old stuff was great I just gave up after one not-wonderful one lol). SO MANY AMAZING jdramas exist now! Even the ones I most feared would not be great - live action adaptations of anime’s? They’re so much better now, some of them are genuinely loved in their own right as standalone live actions. So like. One not-great show experience is NOT representative of the entire plethora of shows available and their quality. Now that I’ve realized how MANY good jdramas I missed out on? I have so much catching up to do ToT

2. If you’re in this boat of “content seems hard to find, so I feel like there’s none or no good stuff” what to do?

First ask some friends for recommendations?

Check Netflix, Amazon, YouTube (YouTube has a ton of cdramas), Viki, iQiyi app. Like how some people get into anime, maybe you just need an easy conviennent show in your recommended to get into more content.

Check out rec channels on YouTube like Donghua Reviews and Avenue X to hear about some shows and figure out the kinds of ones you’d even want to check out (I imagine other languages also have review channels like for kdramas).

Go to MyDramaList.com. Search genres you like, read recommendation list posts. if you’ve seen a show at this point already you can look it up and see in the “Recommended” section what other dramas are like it, you can see it’s genre tags to see WHAT genres you even seem to like. Use this to start DIGGING and finding stuff you might really like. Since like with anime, you’re only going to find the most popular stuff at first just based on Netflix or friends (which might not match up to your personal tastes as well as finding stuff that Is more your favorite genres).

Try out new stuff. And if it sucks, you don’t like it? Drop it, learn that about yourself, start another new thing. You’ll figure out what you like and dislike pretty fast (like I personally hate bad pacing or bad writing specifically characterization, and I can notice when the specific things I love are gonna be in a show pretty fast).

Check out genres specific to that language’s media. Because if it’s new to you, you might not know if you even like it or not, and if you like it then which things you personally prefer in it (since even within a genre there will be wildly different content and feels). For Chinese this might be wuxia, xianxia, palace dramas, costume dramas, republican era dramas, tomb raiding dramas etc.

*That’s how it worked for me, SOTUS led me to the bl drama fans, eventually they recommended Guardian so bam I guess I was learning chinese, YouTube recced me more cdramas from there to continue with, and mydramalist.com helped me find other shows with actors I liked from guardian (and other bl related shows which led me to Go Princess Go of all things for the bi lead), and that site helped me find more genres and shows I’d like, as well as friends continuing to rec things. Didn’t take long to figure out what I liked, didn’t, and to start noticing what upcoming stuff I’d probably be excited for. And now there’s so much good stuff found I don’t have enough time lol.

As for non show media: use shows as the jump off point. Just like using “easy to find shows” can be used to break into finding more shows. Once you have a show you liked a lot - look up it it’s based on a book, if it has an audiobook, an audio drama, a manhua, a donghua. Chances are it DOES have some of this stuff, because cdramas do a PRETTY regular amount of the time. Often cdramas have all or nearly all of these other story types. So jump into those, then find more novels or audio drama or manhua etc by branching off from the one you liked to others like it. Novelupdates.com is good for doing this with novels (it has a recommendations section), I imagine manhua sites have rec lists too, ximalaya starts recommending stuff once you’ve listened to a few audio on it, etc. And if you get into fandoms of those x media types, those fans will start recommending more too. And again, even if you just stick to media related to shows you liked - so often shows have so MUCH related media that would definitely keep you busy. (Like I didnt wade into non-show connected novels until I looked up more novels as recommendations afte show-related novels, like MDZS and Guardian leading me to SVSSS and 2ha and Can Ci Pin which at the time had no show adaptations, and then eventually found just-novel rec lists - which is still the main way I find fanfic).

#rant #June #discussion #I just. I both get why they were frustrated #but also lol it is a bit funny to me to read that #someone thought chinese has very little media and it sucks #because??? lol Chinese internet has been the most similar for me in terms of comparison to English internet #just because there’s SO much it’s like as big as my English shows to wafch/books to read lists god #there is no shortage of media #and also?? seeing the few easy to find cdramas or donghua #doesn’t mean they’re all the same quality? #that’s like finding family guy and thinking all American cartoons can only be like that #not realizing Spider-Man Into the Spiderverse or Xmen Evolition or Rugrats or Danny Phantom or Avatar exist #like?? just look more lol

[daggerfall]

At the risk of starting yet more disk horse, what's the problem with Dyvayth Fyr? To clarify I've only interacted with him in clockwork city, haven't played Morrowind or seen him anywhere else in eso. And he seemed like kinda a privilaged ass but no more so than Tharn, or honestly any of the Wizard tm characters in tes, so I've always been a little confused by the hate.

i did kinda worry this was like, bait when i first saw it, not noticing what had popped out of my queue around the time I got this - but at full risk of discourse, i think it is still best to like, give you an answer as unbiased as I can. full disclosure ive not played morrowind and im gonna get a little soapboxy about tesblr discourse

in TES III morrowind, there are some dialogue lines that imply/state the four women in fyr’s house to be his daughters, clones of himself, but also his wives. which should pretty obviously be uhhhhhhhhhhh really REALLY yikes. ESO fyr exists 800 years before this and has zero references to this, nor does it give any indication of fyr as being anywhere NEAR that level of reprehensible. It’s a big difference, one that some fans agree with as “the writers of ESO wanted to distance themselves from the original writing of morrowind, which was a massive dumpster fire and highly HIGHLY problematic in places, but wanted to bring in such an important lore character as divayth fyr for their story”. other fans see the decision as woobifying an irredeemable character for the purposes of wanting to fuck him or whatever, without the baggage of morrowind, which to them is something one cannot and should not shrug off. 

and in all honesty, i support whatever people feel in regards to the character, on an individual level. the morrowind characterization can and should elicit strong emotional responses - some want him killed and to suffer, some want him entirely gone from the game, some just want that one aspect about him removed from the game for personal comfort, some want it gone so they dont have to feel guilty about liking him. and some people only know him from eso, where he is as you described: no worse than any other lovable asshole wizard character. he induces a certain level of rage in me only seen before in tharn that I find to be... enjoyable to play through. I do admittedly enjoy his characterization in ESO (but I’m just a corporate simp so what do I know). 

and those people who only know him from eso often have NO CLUE what his morrowind characterization was like (or that he was in morrowind at all) because morrowind is highly unplayable if you have any form of dyslexia, adhd that doesnt let you read walls of text, hate the combat system, hate older graphics, your system can’t play it, you’re wildly uncomfortable with the amount of sexual harassment and depictions of slavery in it... there’s so many good reasons to never play or care about morrowind. 

The hate I usually see directed at Fyr is either “he’s like tharn so it’s lovable bullying of an asshole wizard character” or “he’s disgusting and i hate that he even exists in ESO”. It entirely depends on people’s stance of what to do with his Morrowind characterization: throw it out, acknowledge and condemn it, or be unaware of it. So i cannot tell you if the hate you are seeing is coming from one side or another without knowing OP’s intent. 

If people want to talk about Fyr without ever acknowledging Morrowind, hell yeah. If people want him to suffer and die because his Morrowind characterization is especially emotionally triggering given trauma or whatever other reason, then all the power to you, I support you. If people never want to acknowledge him, go for it. If people want to talk about Fyr but knowingly remove that singular disgusting thing about him from Morrowind because the idea of it even existing in the world makes you WILDLY uncomfortable (that’s my stance personally), rock on. 

I think people deserve the right to feel uncomfortable with him, feel rage and hate toward him even. And I also think they deserve the right to just, delete that one bit because it would be SO EASY to get rid of it and make him into a character more like Tharn who we love to hate - to just take Morrowind and throw it out the window. And I think both these groups deserve the right to exist in the same spaces and be civil toward each other. Essentially, let people feel their rage, but also don’t bully and harass people off this site for only knowing ESO characterization of Fyr when they talk about him :)

#incest cw #ask to tag #disc horse #yes im going to reference that #because this ask brought up that discourse in voice when i got it and i was fuckin pissed #anyway anon i hope this was somewhat helpful in explaining a rather... complex issue? #anonymous #asks