#agot meta

[hamliet]

Rereading A Game of Thrones

In light of my recent Fire & Blood reread, I decided to reread the whole ASOIAF series because, well, why not. Below are some general observations/musings on the themes, character arcs, alchemy, and foreshadowing of book 1. I'll do this for the others as well. It's not really a meta so much as observations and thoughts.

Themes

Good Intentions Pave the Way to Tragedy

The most basic storytelling in existence tells us that protagonists have plans work out for them, just because they're good people with good intentions. Martin's whole schtick with A Game of Thrones is turning this on its head.

So many POV character's arc ends with their best intentions blowing up in their faces.

Ned tries to do the right thing and appoint the rightful heir. Robert's will was given to him, after all. He then even confesses to treason to save his daughter. He's still executed.

Catelyn leaves Winterfell as a mother to get justice for her child who was almost murdered. As a result of lies, she ends up unjustly arresting Tyrion and unwittingly helps set in motion a chain of events that results in the loss of her husband, risks to her daughters, and the potential loss of her eldest son, who crowns himself king in the north.

Daenerys saves Mirri Maz Duur and Eroeh and uses MMD to save Drogo. It just results in more death; the khalasar consumes itself, she loses Drogo and her child, and learns how little a life is worth when everything else is gone. Eroeh even faces a worser fate.

Sansa only wanted a happy ending like in the romantic songs she listens to; she accidentally gives Cersei the warning she needs to arrest her father. She then pleads for mercy and is rewarded with her father's head. Sansa had no bad intentions, but she lost her family and her freedom for this.

Arya intends to be a strong warrior and hates when others are bullied. She kills a boy at the end out of fear. She just wants to save herself. She didn't do anything wrong per se, but it will haunt her and influence her negatively down the line.

Good intentions, even righteous actions, guarantee nothing. But that doesn't mean they are pointless, either. Why? Because, Daenerys's arc shows us what you can do when only the dead and stone remain, when she arises from the ashes like a phoenix. Jon's arc shows us that others can pull us back, make loss bearable.

Duty vs Love

Duty vs. love is one of the main elements of a Romantic story, and Martin's identified himself as a Romantic. Guinevere and Lancelot, anyone? The love that cannot be, the love that is doomed because of duty--there's conflict. Courtly love is a key piece of this, and it's literally defined as:

a highly conventionalized medieval tradition of love between a knight and a married noblewoman, first developed by the troubadours of southern France and extensively employed in European literature of the time. The love of the knight for his lady was regarded as an ennobling passion and the relationship was typically unconsummated.

(Also yes the Romantics drew heavily on medieval tradition.)

It ties into the motif of the human heart against itself. Ned, the most honorable man, in the end chooses love over duty (Sansa's life over his honor). Arguably, he chose both, because his duty as a father is to protect his child first and foremost.

Yet those who eschew duty for love completely aren't framed positively either: see, Cersei and Jaime, Robert over Lyanna, etc. Neither, of course, is eschewing love for duty. Stannis, we know from the show, will in the end choose duty over love (burning Shireen), and it will be for nothing.

Instead of "duty or love," what Martin seems to be trying to do is explore the nuances of individual situations and choices, and to suggest that duty to others' wellbeing can't so easily be separated from love.

Jon, after all, ends up trying to choose between duty (the Night's Watch) and love (helping Robb become King of the North). In the end, though, it's the love of his friends on the Night's Watch that brings him back. It's not just because he said some words. It's their love, and it's the reality of the Others' threats--since the Others threaten them all, including every person Jon loves.

Justice and Mercy

It's a tale as old as time (or at least as old as the Bible): justice vs. mercy. Can true justice exist without mercy? Or is that just abuse itself? Is mercy really the exclusion of justice?

Stannis, for example, is said to be the full embodiment of justice. And notably? That's not a good thing:

Lord Stannis in particular. His claim is the true one, he is known for his prowess as a battle commander, and he is utterly without mercy. There is no creature on earth half so terrifying as a truly just man.

Just as we in the real world struggle with this question of when mercy becomes injustice, and when justice becomes injustice without mercy, so the characters struggle. Even Ned's honorable justice--executing Garen at the start of the book--turns out to have been wrong, and he's executed in a similar fashion at the end of the book. But it's not ironic justice; it's just sad.

Ned is caught precisely because of both, just like love and duty: justice, in that he refused to act in time to get Joffrey under his wing, but would have saved his life if he had. But it wasn't just to put Joffrey on the throne, so he doesn't.

He also tries to show mercy to Cersei by encouraging her to leave with her kids. He just misunderstands Cersei and assumes that, as a mother, she will prioritize her kids' lives first and foremost. Except, the tragedy is that Cersei has never had her father prioritize her life as anything more than a pawn to be used, and so Cersei calls Ned's bluff: "what of my wrath, Lord Stark?" It'd be easy to say Ned underestimated Cersei because he saw her as a role and not as a person, but I don't think that's quite true either. The reality is... Ned had good intentions. It just didn't work out, because injustice is the opposite of justice and of mercy, and injustice isn't a force of mindless orcs from a foreign land to be brought down. It's among us and it's within each of us.

The Outsiders

The real heroes of the story, the ones I'll call the Big Six, are Jon, Daenerys, Tyrion, Arya, Bran, and Sansa. Interestingly, all of them are outsiders--except Sansa. Jon is a bastard. Daenerys is an exile. Tyrion is a dwarf. Bran is crippled. Arya is a girl who doesn't like society's rules--and Jon directly compares her situation to his: "Arya never seemed to fit, no more than he had."

But just in case we were tempted to brush off Arya and especially Sansa as being not truly outsiders, we have Daenerys' chapter where she eats the horse heart which tells us exactly why Sansa is also an outsider to a degree:

If she choked on the blood or retched up the flesh, the omens were less favorable; the child might be stillborn, or come forth weak, deformed, or female.

Yep, female is seen as weak and a poor omen.

If I Look Back, I Am Lost

This is the line Dany repeats to herself after Drogo's death. She can't bring herself to look back at what she could have done differently. In the moment she says this, it makes sense: she can't bring Drogo back, and she can't undo what she's done already. She can only look forward. However... she's going to have to look back at some point, probably in TWOW, and that should provide a wake-up.

The most notable other character doing this at this point (don't worry, everyone will end up here by book 5!) is Tyrion. His proposal to Shae--that she act like his lover with romance--is essentially him reenacting his trauma with Tysha. A whore pretended to be your wife, so now you're asking Shae to pretend to love you. It should be clear from the start that this isn't going to end anywhere good.

Alchemy

Dismemberment of a "good man" is usually a symbol in alchemy for what needs to happen in order for the process to go. The man's parts are scattered. and he is killed, but from that scattering, everything will be purified and then brought back together. Pretty clearly the Starks (and also Tyrion and Daenerys, whom Ned tried to save).

The Process

When Jon says his vows in the godswood, it's clear that the weirwood trees are designed after the three stages of the alchemical process: "The forest floor was carpeted with fallen leaves, bloodred on top, black rot beneath. The wide smooth trunks were bone pale, and nine faces stared inward." The black stage is associated with death and decay, the white with skeletons (rinsing away of impurities). Red is the final stage.

The city of King's Landing also emphasizes these three colors: the Sept on Visenya's hill is white and crystal; the Dragonpit on Rhaenys' hill is black, and the Red Keep on Aegon's is, of course, red.

When Sansa finally gives up on her delusions of Joffrey, she "g[ives] herself to the darkness," which could be read as giving herself over to the black stage, to being transformed.

Green is the color of the prima materia, or the substances that will be made into the philosopher's stone. Tyrion fights at the Greek Fork. Bran is referred to as a "only a green boy with the smell of summer still on you." When Daenerys sets out on the Dothraki see, she has the following conversation:

"It's so green," she said.

"Here and now," Ser Jorah agreed. "You ought to see it when it blooms, all dark red flowers from horizon to horizon, like a sea of blood.

To me, this seems to indicate where Daenerys's arc will go: red completion.

The Wind

Again as @argentvive has pointed out, Dany being born in the middle of a terrible storm is likely a reference to the line from the Emerald Tablet about the Philosopher's Stone being "carried by wind". But there are actually a lot of references to wind in AGOT, like this Bran conversation:

Bran listened. "It's only the wind," he said after a moment, uncertain. "The leaves are rustling."

"Who do you think sends the wind, if not the gods?" 

Maybe Bran will be an alchemist for Daenerys? Because her association with wind is strong in this story. When Khal Drogo gives her the silver horse, she says "Tell Khal Drogo that he has given me the wind."  Indeed, he's given Dany what she needs to start her journey, and he will give her even more. When she tries to convince her husband to go to Westeros, she tells him ships are "Wooden horses with a hundred legs, that fly across the sea on wings full of wind." Drogo never takes Dany to Westeros, but this is how sailing works. Dany will arrive in Westeros carried by wind.

Also of note: the sea in alchemy can be representative of the mercurial waters, the substance that the stone is dissolved in before being coagulated. The Dothraki fear the sea, but Dany needs it.

Markings

The philosopher's stone, and most romantic couples, in alchemical stories, are made of characters with opposite "markings." These alchemical opposites are:

Male: Sun, sulphur, fire and air, hot and dry, red, gold, heart. Female: Moon, mercury, earth and water, cool and moist, white, silver, mind.

Arya is heavily marked as water and earth. Syrio Forel tells her she must become a "water dancer," and that's precisely what she does.

Pretty much all of the Starks of import are white. Sansa wears white silk. Bran wears silver pins. Jon is also water (snow). However:

Bran often dreams of wings and flying, which might indicate a future air marking for him. Daenerys has a similar dream about wings and flying. Yes, crows vs dragons, whatever. I genuinely wonder if Bran might switch markings at some point like Dany does.

"A dragon was air and fire."<--actual quote.

Daenerys's Rebirth

So as mentioned above, Dany undergoes a switch in her markings. This is also something argentvive has covered extensively. Drogo rides a red horse; Dany silver. Drogo is the "sun and stars," while Dany is the "moon of [his] life." But, as the story tells us through this myth, a moon can become a sun:

Once there were two moons in the sky, but one wandered too close to the sun and cracked from the heat. A thousand thousand dragons poured forth, and drank the fire of the sun. That is why dragons breathe flame. One day the other moon will kiss the sun too, and then it will crack and the dragons will return.

Towards the end of the story, Dany becomes red, sulfur, the sun, fire, and air; she even becomes heart via literally eating a heart. During the Mirri Maz Duur scene, it's noted that Drogo is forced to soak in a tub, and:

Her handmaids filled the tub with tepid water that stank of sulfur, 

After this, Drogo's red horse is killed, because he will no longer be red; Dany will. The entire tent becomes bathed in red, and just in case we weren't aware this was a rebirth scene, Daenerys literally gives birth.

The blood had gone everywhere. Even the sandsilk walls were spotted with red, and the rugs underfoot were black and wet.

But her birth is not finished. No, it's dissolved, but not coagulated. Hence, the fire.

She climbed the pyre herself to place the eggs around her sun-and-stars. The black beside his heart, under his arm. The green beside his head, his braid coiled around it. The cream-and-gold down between his legs.

The eggs are interestingly placed by the three principles of alchemy: heart, mind (head), and body (since body characters can be, um, lusty). When Dany is reborn through the fire, she is naked like a baby, both child and mother (she's noted to be lactating, which she will use to feed her dragons).

Ser Jorah Mormont found her amidst the ashes, surrounded by blackened logs and bits of glowing ember and the burnt bones of man and woman and stallion. She was naked, covered with soot, her clothes turned to ash, her beautiful hair all crisped away . . . yet she was unhurt.

The Show That Shall Not Be Named (Mixing references here I know)

In regards to that dreadful show citing Viserys' death as an example of Dany being "cold" to her enemies... whew. So not true. When Viserys is executed, Daenerys does exactly what Ned Stark says anyone who executes another should: look him in the eye. She's asked to turn away, and she refuses. In other words, there's zero framing that we should be disturbed by her reaction--in fact, we should see her as honorable for it. It's also noted that Dany's handmaidens note that Daenerys's grief is real: "You have not laughed since your brother the Khal Rhaggat was crowned by Drogo," said Irri. "It is good to see, Khaleesi."

Rather than Dany's reaction being a sign of her nonexistent coldness, I think it's more another example of the main theme mentioned above: Dany kept trying to protect her brother by not telling him the truth about how the khals viewed him ("Khal Rhaggat"), even though 1) if she had, he'd have hurt her, and 2) he really should have been able to open his eyes and see the truth, but he willingly blinded himself not unlike Robert Baratheon. She had good intentions. It just didn't mean that there weren't extremely negative consequences. That also doesn't mean she should have told him, either.

Insofar as Bran ending up as some kind of king, Tyrion's line in the show was something about how Bran had the best story. A joke in the show, but possibly something like this will be said in the books (and, y'know, make sense). Bran is told by Old Nan: "My stories? No, my little lord, not mine. The stories are, before me and after me, before you too." Stories matter.

Foreshadowing:

It's hard to know what is accurate foreshadowing. There are some elements of George's original plans in this book that have clearly been scrapped. It's a retcon, but also not, because the retconning is less about changing the endgame and more about changing the steps along the journey. For example, the line about Jaime looking "like a king" at Winterfell, Jaime being appointed Warden of the East, etc, all seem to line up with Martin's original plan to make Jaime a villain to take the throne.

That said, for stuff that does pay off:

Jon wondering about his mother is followed up within three short paragraphs with a switch to the line "They said it was Donal Noye who'd forged King Robert's warhammer, the one that crushed the life from Rhaegar Targaryen on the Trident." He's your daddy, Jon.

Varys is associated with the scent of lilacs from his very first scene. Lilacs are only else used to describe... the color of Dany and Viserys's eyes. He had Targaryen (or Blackfyre) connections from the start.

Jon and Dany have an interesting parallel that may or may not be alchemical: both are associated with bears. Jon is mentored by Jeor Mormont, and Dany inspires Jorah Mormont.

#agot #a game of thrones #agot meta #asoiaf meta #kinda #a song of ice and fire #daenerys targeryan #jon snow #tyrion lannister #sansa stark #cersei lannister #arya stark #bran stark #varys

[asongofstarkandtargaryen]

Another moment of Jon being observant that usually is overlooked by the fandom is when he took note of Joffrey's regalia. Usually when the fandom talks about Jon being observant in Winterfell they mention the scene where he describes the royal family at the feast. However, I believe that the scene I'm gonna talk about below is equally important to demonstrate Jon's perceptive nature.

Remember when he was talking to Arya while observing the princes and his brothers training in Winterfell's yard?

That's what he told Arya about Joffrey's regalia:

"The Lannisters are proud" Jon observed. " You'd think the royal sigil would be sufficient, but no. He makes his mother's House equal in honor to the King's".

Please note that Jon isn't dismissing the importance of the female lineage here. He's just being observant that the Lannisters rule through the meek King Robert. Because Joffrey isn't merely a noble who wishes to honor both of his parents lineages. One of his lineages is a royal one while the other isn't, which makes them unequal in terms of importance. A royal sigil is above any other great house sigil. The norm would be for Joffrey to only have the Baratheon sigil.

By also having the Lannister one, he sends (or more accurately Cersei and Tywin who are behind this decision) a clear message: the Lannisters rule as much as the Barstheons despite the fact that only the latter have royal blood.

And Jon is the first character who observers that in page.

#jon snow #asoiaf #asoiaf meta #valyrianscrolls #jon snow meta #a post of ice and fire #agot jon snow

[vivacissimx]

A Game of Thrones' first chapter being Bran I and last chapter being Daenerys X, and those two chapters being in such strong conversation with each other will forever be what sells me on ASOIAF as a series. The set-up is just it. Consider: AGOT begins with an execution, of Gared the Night's Watch deserter who witnessed The Horrors. It's presented as a part of Bran's coming of age, this complex situation which he's now old enough to grapple with. Gared is sympathetic to us as readers (he witnessed The Horrors!!!) but his life is forfeit. He dies by Ice. After, Jon and Robb argue over whether he died brave or afraid. Ned says it doesn't matter—death is necessary, it is part of a larger Cycle which Bran will one day be a part of though he shouldn't enjoy it any more than he denies it... what makes it necessary though? What is this cycle—because if it's only about justice, well, Gared's execution doesn't feel just. Now we have our first true question of the book.

Daenerys X follows a similar format with a sympathetic Mirri Maz Duur having forfeited her life after killing an unborn Rhaego. Why? Well she also witnessed The Horrors. This time in the shape of a Dothraki invasion & the Stallion Who Mounts The World prophecy. She is set to die by burning (ice and fire babyyy). In the moments before, she appears defiant... but when Daenerys says it does not matter how she dies, then fear creeps into MMD's eyes. Again the interplay between bravery & fear. Again the seesaw, the balance. So now we can return to the first question. Why is this necessary?

Because only death can pay for life... and because you should strive for life. There should be hope and yearning for birth, for rebirth. Gared & Mirri have both given up on their own lives due to their fear while Bran asks, and Daenerys answers, that yes, you must reach for life even when life as you know it has ended. It's a coming of age for Daenerys too. When the dragons burst forth their newborn cries are called music—it's a song!! A Song of Ice and Fire. So yeah. Five fucking stars.

#bran stark #daenerys targaryen #asoiaf #valyrianscrolls #agot #text #asoiaf meta

[flying-ham]

It’s interesting that mirri maz duur (whether on purpose or inadvertently) kills rhaego to prevent future suffering he and his khalasar might commit, but ultimately causes the birth of a much more destructive entity. She tells dany that, “The stallion who mounts the world will burn no cities now. His khalasar will trample no nations into dust,” after the stillbirth, believing that rhaego would become a Genghis Khan esque figure in essos. However, it is rhaego’s sacrifice that quickens dany’s eggs, allowing drogon, viserion, and rhaegal to be born. In the end, mirri gives dany far more power than she ever would have had under drogo and rhaego, and far more destructive capabilities.

#she wanted to stop a perceived evil #but made an even greater threat as a result #danaerys targaryen #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #agot #a game of thrones #valyrianscrolls #asoiaf meta #I guess? #mirri maz duur #khal drogo

[the-lake-lily-alchemist]

Dany’s vision of Rhaegar in the HotU

So, I want to beat an already dead and over-beaten horse, and talk a bit about Dany’s vision of Rhaegar in the House of the Undying.

Now, I want to preface it by saying that I know this subject has been talked about thousands of times and it’s boring and tiring to talk about the same shit over and over again, but I just saw “Rhaegar is a prophecy-obsessed groomer/rapist” discourse on my twitter feed and thought I’d toss my two cents in.

Firstly, let’s look a bit at this vision as it appears in the books, shall we?

Viserys, was her first thought the next time she paused, but a second glance told her otherwise. The man had her brother’s hair, but he was taller, and his eyes were a dark indigo rather than lilac. “Aegon,” he said to a woman nursing a newborn babe in a great wooden bed. “What better name for a king?”

As we can see here, Dany, on her quest to find her children, stumbles upon this little moment long past. The text tells us that the three people shown here are Rhaegar, his wife Elia, and their son Aegon.

“Will you make a song for him?” the woman asked.

“He has a song,” the man replied. “He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire.” He looked up when he said it and his eyes met Dany’s, and it seemed as if he saw her standing there beyond the door.

This passage specifically has been interpreted numerous times. The text tells us that Rhaegar thought that his son, Aegon, was The Prince that was Promised. However, Rhaegar looks up when he says the prophecy, and looks directly at Dany, as if talking to her.

This to me reads as not-very-subtly being told the answer to the prophecy. Dany is TPTWP, as the author tells us through vision-Rhaegar. Thus, she is made aware of the prophecy, part of which we can find in the title of the book series.

I’ve seen the theory that Rhaegar seeing Dany was a time-space continuum bubble, of the present looking at the past, or, for Rhaegar, the present glimpsing at the future. How I see it, however, is that when he says those fateful words, and looks up to meet his sister’s eyes, he becomes both the gods’ and the author’s channel to make Dany and the reader aware of the answer to the prophecy. He sceases to be just a vision of the past and becomes the gods’/R’hllor’s voice, informing Dany. He tells her about the PTWP prophecy, because she is TPTWP!

Thus, when he continues with this,

“There must be one more,” he said, though whether he was speaking to her or the woman in the bed she could not say. “The dragon has three heads.”

we can infer that he’s saying this to Dany, because the gods want her to know this (and the author wants us to know this).

Mind you, these are visions, not just excerpts from the past/present/future. The conversation as it’s shown might not have taken place exactly like this, if it ever did. With how abrupt the cut from Rhaegar saying this to him going and playing the harp, I think he’s never said those words himself. Again, I believe that, in that moment (given that “There must be one more” and “The dragon has three heads” do not tie at all with the PTWP prophecy), it’s the gods using this vision of him to tell Dany (and the reader) an important message.

I shall say it one more time, just to be perfectly clear: IT’S NOT RHAEGAR TALKING ABOUT THE THREE HEADS AND A THIRD CHILD, IT’S THE GODS!

“There must be one more”, because Rhaegar has three children, not just two. Dany is fated to meet Rhaegar’s third child (and very probably fall in love and marry said third child, but that’s another overly-beaten, dead horse), and we as readers have been getting clues about who this child is since book one.

In no passage is it stated or implied that Rhaegar sought to have another child. He doesn’t go on and say, “When the maester has cleared you, we shall try for a third.” or “Because you can’t get pregnant again, I shall look for another woman to bear my third child.” The theory that he wanted another one, presumably a girl, to name her Visenya, is just that, a fan theory.

“The dragon has three heads. There are two men in the world who I can trust, if I can flnd them. I will not be alone then. We will be three against the world, like Aegon and his sisters.” (ASOS, Dany VI)

It’s clear (or it should be) that “the dragon has three heads” it’s specifically for Dany to know that there are two people out there whom she can trust and with whom she shall stand “against the world, like Aegon and his sisters.”

It’s not about Rhaegar thinking that his children are “the three heads of the dragon”. It’s about Dany. You would think it’s obvious given that it’s her chapter, but whatever.

#i also want to add that nowhere in the books does it say that ‘a song of ice and fire’ means Stark + Targaryen #this is also a fan theory that has become so popular it’s regarded as canon #Dany is TPTWP and she’s also Azor Ahai as it’s shown when she fulfilled the prophecy in her last chapter in AGOT #most of you are dumb tho #full offence #you guys are not reading the books properly #pick ‘em up and start reading because this shit is getting ridiculous #daenerys targaryen #daenerys stormborn #rhaegar targaryen #how tf do you read about a duty-bound melancholy book-ish beautiful prince #who loves going outside to play his harp for the people of kl #and say he’s prophecy-obsessed and a rapist #are you guys robert baratheon or smth? #my meta #asoiaf meta #asoiaf

[ghastlywretch]

obsessed with how jaime looms like a spectre over the characters and the reader alike in agot and to an even greater extent in acok. you've actually witnessed him firsthand a few times with characters like jon, tyrion and sansa, but most of him is just the golden-haired man haunting bran's dreams, terrifying him, tyrion's brave, strong, impulsive brother who has to be saved, the kingslayer of the smallfolk, the one whose incest and kingslaying has brought down the wrath of the gods upon them, ned's jaime, who is vile and never to be trusted, not worthy of any empathy, the kingslayer that is more idea than person for the younger characters like jon, arya and sansa, the kingslayer that theon almost crossed blades with, his chance for glory (which...okay theon...) the kingslayer whose vile deeds don't erase the fact that he is a knight for stannis, the kingslayer who murdered daenerys' father. he's mentioned in so many conversations. cerwyn mentions him to bran and he feels like he's falling again, renly talks about him and cersei with catelyn in front of brienne, brienne and catelyn mention him in their conversation when they're going to riverrun, robb and tyrion and tywin are all thinking about him. grrm does such a good job at just establishing his presence and significance (not only in the narrative but in a meta way as well, a hint for what's to come) in this world, which just elevates that scene when cat and brienne go down to the dungeons to meet him to an insane level.

#so much to be said about each of these characters' relationship jaime #specifically their relationship to jaime before ASOS #the parasocial nature of it #i sometimes forget that bran is literally terrified of jaime #like i blorbofy him so much but then i remember that this is the VILLAIN in bran's life who took everything away from him #regardless of his intentions or reasons or whatever #and then brienne's relationship with the idea of jaime lannister thee kinglsayer is so compelling as well #her being the one in the tent listening to cat and renly talk for the very first time about jaime and cers #and not only the incest but the attempt on bran's life??? #god #GODDDD #jaime lannister #asoiaf reread #asoiaf #acok #agot #valyrianscrolls #asoiaf meta

[goodqueenaly]

"It was for love," Sansa said in a rush. "Father wouldn't even give me leave to say farewell." She was the good girl, the obedient girl, but she had felt as wicked as Arya that morning, sneaking away from Septa Mordane, defying her lord father. She had never done anything so willful before, and she would never have done it then if she hadn't loved Joffrey as much as she did. "He was going to take me back to Winterfell and marry me to some hedge knight, even though it was Joff I wanted. I told him, but he wouldn't listen." The king had been her last hope. The king could command Father to let her stay in King's Landing and marry Prince Joffrey, Sansa knew he could, but the king had always frightened her. He was loud and rough-voiced and drunk as often as not, and he would probably have just sent her back to Lord Eddard, if they even let her see him. So she went to the queen instead, and poured out her heart, and Cersei had listened and thanked her sweetly … [sic] only then Ser Arys had escorted her to the high room in Maegor's Holdfast and posted guards, and a few hours later, the fighting had begun outside. 

Not me thinking about how this moment reminds me so much of how I see Lyanna at various points in her situation with Rhaegar. We’ve not been in Lyanna’s head, of course, but I’d be willing to believe that at least when Lyanna met up with Rhaegar sometime around New Year’s 282 AC, she believed she was to some extent in love with him - the seemingly dashing, handsome, romantic prince who had named her queen of love and beauty before virtually the entire assembled aristocracy of Westeros against all social tradition. Just as importantly, I think Lyanna also believed that she needed an alternative, and soon, to her impending marriage to Robert Baratheon. Having been “long betrothed” to Robert by the time of the tourney of Harrenhal, Lyanna may have assumed or been told (especially in the aftermath of that shocking tourney display) that she would be married sooner rather than later to the Lord of Storm’s End (especially with Brandon’s own nuptials to Catelyn Tully, likely part of the same alliance bloc, imminent). There was no one who could stop this marriage from happening - except, perhaps, the Prince of Dragonstone and heir to the Iron Throne (but certainly not the paranoid, suspicious, violent king). If she married him first (and there was precedent, as Lyanna may have known, for polygamous marriages among the Targaryens), then she could not be legally married to Robert. It was Rhaegar, Lyanna may have thought, who could save her from this fate, and so Rhaegar she would turn to, making a journey across the Riverlands to somewhere near Harrenhal in order to escape with him.

These aspects of Lyanna’s story in turn recall certain parallels with Sansa’s story here. Just as so Lyanna might have seen Ned’s insisted that her fiancé “was a good man and true who would love her with all his heart” as the promise of a miserable future married to Robert, so Sansa imagines that Ned’s promise to “make [her] a match with a high lord who's worthy of you, someone brave and gentle and strong” would result in him “marry[ing] her to some hedge knight” when “it was Joff [she] wanted”. Too, just as Lyanna may have idealized Rhaegar, at least at this stage, as a perfectly chivalrous and loving knight and prince, so Sansa in this moment idealized Joffrey (describing him several times in AGOT as “her gallant prince” whom she describes in “Sansa III” as “worthier than his drunken father”, a deep contrast to the king who “had always frightened her”). In turn, just as Lyanna sought to avoid such nuptial doom, in her mind, by turning to an alternate royal power - not the king, but his son and heir - for a marriage to this prince instead, so Sansa seeks to stay with her (so she thinks at this point) beloved prince by appealing to an alternate royal power - not the king but his queen. The solution for both Stark girls was defiance to their paternal powers, circumventing their orders so that they might stay with the princes they imagine they love. However, just as Lyanna may have come to discover that her prince was a deeply unhappy man who may have seen her primarily, if not entirely, as a vehicle for prophetic fulfillment, so Sansa comes to discover that her prince was a cruel sadist who enjoyed only using her as an outlet for abuse and torture. Just as Lyanna ended her days trapped in a tower far from home (likely on the orders of that same royal power to whom she had appealed), guarded and imprisoned by Kingsguard while Ned and his companions battled them outside of it, so Sansa finds herself trapped in a tower far from home on the direct orders of her royal advocate, imprisoned by a knight of the Kingsguard and other guards, while her father and his men are attacked outside of it. 

#asoiaf meta #lyanna stark #sansa stark #agot

[catofoldstones]

Arya III, A Game of Thrones

This is the first instance we see of any Stark [kid] exhibiting warging qualities. And it’s my beloved Arya Stark who thinks she is dreaming (something that doesn’t change for quite a while haha) but she’s actually inside the mind of a Red Keep cat.

#arya stark #asoiaf #agot #warging #warg #asoiaf meta #alt text included #this is what happens when you’re sick #you reread asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #a game of thrones #starks and warging

[jozor-johai]

Reread the AGOT Prologue last night, and I was so caught up this time in how the dynamics of that chapter are a microcosm of the class dynamics in Westeros.

Not such a long post, but putting it after the cut for ease.

Waymar Royce, of course, stands in for the Lords, with his wealth and name and undeserved authority, while one-named Gared and Will are the smallfolk.

In this chapter, with a speaking cast of 3, there's already this question of where does power lie? In this scene, the smallfolk outnumber the lords 2-to-1, and neither believe in Waymar, but ultimately each of them defers to the lord's authority (the ratio is much more extreme in Westeros at large, but this works for a 3-person dynamic). Will and Gared also trust each other, and trust each other's expertise, more than either of them think Waymar should be trusted in any capacity—he's not leader by merit (he has much less experience than either of them), he's not leader by popular appeal (they laugh at him in their cups), and he's not leader by age (younger than the both).

And we see already in this small moment the ways in which authority attempts to deal with usurpation—which we will see played out over and over again throughout the entirety of ASOIAF.

Gared challenges Waymar's authority on the basis of experience, which is a justified complaint. Faced with an inarguable position, Waymar responds with unnecessary cruelty: "you ought to dress more warmly, Gared." This is one way for the upper class to keep the smallfolk in line—to flaunt their wealth and advantage, and to push back visciously against challenges. This is the Tywin technique, one which we see done consistently throughout the series.

The significance of this being a mental confrontation cannot be overstated: when confronted with Varys' riddle, Tyrion later observes that the rule "All depends on the man with the sword." Here, Gared is the man with the sword—he's a man-at-arms, and the better swordsman. While "Will doubted it[Royce's sword] had ever been swung in anger," "Will would not have given an iron bob for the lordling's life if Gared pulled it[his own sword] from its scabbard." Gared could fully kill Royce here, if he dared. And so the challenge, for Waymar, is to make sure Gared never dares. Power lies where men believe it lies, so Waymar's job as authority figure is to demoralize Gared, so he does not outright challenge Waymar's authority. (This is the role of public humiliation—another 'Tywin tactic,' but which is also used broadly).

Perhaps Gared would dare to challenge Waymar's authority if he were not alone. When Varys follows Tyrion's thinking that the man holding the sword might have some real power, he questions: why do the men with swords obey kings at all, then? Tyrion posits: "Because these child kings and drunken oafs can call other strong men, with other swords." So perhaps the issue is unity, a majority feeling—one man cannot rebel, lest his own class turn against him, but perhaps many can. We see this as the series goes on in instances like with the Sparrows, who amass enough numbers that they can imprison the queen, or with the sellswords in Meereen, who might turn the tide of battle if they switch sides (to the side that they believe might win).

To gain this advantage, Gared and Will would have to be a united front. In the beginning of this chapter, Will was a neutral figure, he's not willing to actually challenge that authority, he didn't want to be involved in the confrontation, but knew "he known "they would drag him into the quarrel sooner or later." Later, though, after witnessing Gared's demoralization, Will nearly steps in himself—in defense of Gared, out of respect for Gared's experience, and in a moment of class solidarity, Will speaks up to defend Gared, and is cut off:

"If Gared said it was the cold …" Will began.

"Have you drawn any watches this past week, Will?"

Here, Waymar's goal, as ruling class of this interaction, is to prevent class solidarity within the smallfolk. If Waymar responded too rudely, or with too much aggression, this might bind Gared and Will together for certain, and Waymar might be usurped (this is the result of the repeated aggressions of Aerys II, resulting in his death, or the repeated aggressions of Tywin which spawned the aforementioned Sparrows).

So Waymar has to employ a different strategy: (still a bit snidely) Waymar plays the role of 'encouraging mentor,' invoking this idea that he deserves to rule by the merit of being inherently 'wiser' or a keeper of 'knowledge'. He suggests that Will figure out for himself, under Waymar's guidance, that the cold could not possibly have killed the wildlings. Led more gently by Waymar, Will seems to decide for himself that Waymar is correct. In short, Waymar is able to reposition Will to be on his side, not Gared's, by leveraging his initial assumed authority and the existing attitude of elite education, even as that makes Will go against his own first-hand experience.

This is another tactic that we see repeatedly used throughout ASOIAF (and the world)—the ruling class acting as though they are simply elevating the ("innocently wrong") subjugated class to a more aware and knowledgeable position. If we believe the Maester conspiracy, they are the most obvious example of this, but the fact that it is only the lords who have access to Maesters means this is implicitly true without even needing a conspiracy—the ruling class is already gatekeeping knowledge and education from the subjugated class. (As an aside: the Maester conspiracy, ironically, is only concerned with the possibility of an even higher authority secretly gatekeeping knowledge from the nobility—in other words, the fear that the Maesters are treating the Lords the way that the Lords treat the smallfolk).

So let's return to Varys' final proposed answers to his own riddle: "Some say knowledge is power. Some tell us that all power comes from the gods. Others say it derives from law." Waymar has employed the knowledge-as-power against Will, and we're also constantly up against the backdrop of law-as-power: The Night's Watch.

Waymar references "Mormont," someone who Waymar does not want to disappoint, and they all consider the agreed-upon terms of the Night's Watch. Even in this microcosmic scenario, they are part of a system, one where this authority figure is, seemingly, held to his own authority figure, and one where the "rules" of the interaction have been determined long before now. In the end, once Waymar decides, "the order had been given, and honor bound them to obey." They have all agreed to a set of laws, already, which keep them bound to Waymar's authority.

So, ultimately, it is in this moment that despite Gared and Will being fully correct in their fears, despite being more experienced, wiser, older, and in all ways better rangers than Waymar, authority itself held true, and Waymar marched them all on towards his own death.

#jozor thoughts #asoiaf meta #valyrianscrolls #AGOT Prologue #asoiaf analysis #asoiaf #night's watch #jozor reread

[ilynpilled]

The golden armor, not the white, but no one ever remembers that. Would that I had taken off that damned cloak as well.

When I reach King's Landing I'll have a new hand forged, a golden hand.

Cersei might like that. A golden hand to stroke her golden hair.

I am not myself. He eased himself down until the water reached his chin. “Soiled my white cloak . . . I wore my gold armor that day, but . . ."

“Gold armor?” Her voice sounded far off, faint.

Jaime slid into the offered seat quickly, so Bolton could not see how weak he was. "White is for Starks. I'll drink red like a good Lannister."

She did as he bid her. "The white cloak . . ."

". . . is new, but I'm sure I'll soil it soon enough."

“That wasn't . . . I was about to say that it becomes you.”

When he was done, more than three-quarters of his page still remained to be filled between the gold lion on the crimson shield on top and the blank white shield at the bottom. Ser Gerold Hightower had begun his history, and Ser Barristan Selmy had continued it, but the rest Jaime Lannister would need to write for himself. He could write whatever he chose, henceforth. Whatever he chose . . .

"Robert's beard was black. Mine is gold."

"Gold? Or silver?" Cersei plucked a hair from beneath his chin and held it up. It was grey. "All the color is draining out of you, brother. You've become a ghost of what you were, a pale crippled thing. And so bloodless, always in white." She flicked the hair away. "I prefer you garbed in crimson and gold."

At its head Jaime stood at vigil, his one good hand curled about the hilt of a tall golden greatsword whose point rested on the floor. The hooded cloak he wore was as white as freshly fallen snow, and the scales of his long hauberk were mother-of-pearl chased with gold. Lord Tywin would have wanted him in Lannister gold and crimson, she thought. It always angered him to see Jaime all in white.

Ser Jaime Lannister, all in white, stood beside his father's bier, five fingers curled about the hilt of a golden greatsword.

Fissures had opened in his cheeks, and a foul white fluid was seeping through the joints of his splendid gold-and-crimson armor to pool beneath his body.

Glory wore trappings of Lannister crimson; Honor was barded in Kingsguard white.

His cloak was Lannister crimson, but his surcoat showed the ten purple mullets of his own House arrayed upon a yellow field.

"My lord," the lad asked, "will you be wanting your new hand?"

"Wear it, Jaime," urged Ser Kennos of Kayce. "Wave at the smallfolk and give them a tale to tell their children.”

“I think not." Jaime would not show the crowds a golden lie. Let them see the stump. Let them see the cripple.

Behind the lords came a hundred crossbowmen and three hundred men-at-arms, and crimson flowed from their shoulders as well. In his white cloak and white scale armor, Jaime felt out of place amongst that river of red.

Jaime Lannister wore a doublet of red velvet slashed with cloth-of-gold, and a golden chain studded with black diamonds. He had strapped on his golden hand as well, polished to a fine bright sheen. This was no fit place to wear his whites. His duty awaited him at Riverrun; a darker need had brought him here.

Jaime had thought long and hard about whether to wear his gold armor or his white to this meeting; in the end, he'd chosen a leather jack and a crimson cloak.

For an instant, the deep red clouds that crowned the western hills reminded him of Rhaegar's children, all wrapped up in crimson cloaks.

Seven bloody hells," he started, "who dares—" Then he saw Jaime's white cloak and golden breastplate. His swordpoint dropped. "Lannister?"

quotes specifically focusing on his hand:

“The boy is dead." Jaime had drunk three cups of wine, and his golden hand seemed to be growing heavier and clumsier by the moment.

His golden fingers were curved enough to hook, but could not grasp, so his hold upon the shield was loose. "You were a knight once, ser," Jaime said. "So was I. Let us see what we are now."

“Radiant." Fickle. "Golden." False as fool's gold. Last night he dreamed he'd found her fucking Moon Boy. He'd killed the fool and smashed his sister's teeth to splinters with his golden hand, just as Gregor Clegane had done to poor Pia. In his dreams Jaime always had two hands; one was made of gold, but it worked just like the other.

"Men shall name you Goldenhand from this day forth, my lord," the armorer had assured him the first time he'd fitted it onto Jaime's wrist. He was wrong. I shall be the Kingslayer till I die.

One of them wore the ruins of a crimson cloak, but Jaime hanged him with the rest. It felt good. This was justice. Make a habit of it, Lannister, and one day men might call you Goldenhand after all. Goldenhand the Just. The world grew ever greyer as they drew near to Harrenhal.

The weight of his golden hand had grown irksome. He fumbled at the straps that secured it to his wrist.

Well, what's one more broken vow to the Kingslayer? Just more shit in the bucket. Jaime resolved to be the first man on the battlements. And with this golden hand of mine, most like the first to fall.

Around him he glimpsed the faces of men he'd done his best to kill in the Whispering Wood, where the Freys had fought beneath the direwolf banners of Robb Stark. His golden hand hung heavy at his side.

then the subconscious conclusion:

"Is it?" She smiled sadly. "Count your hands, child."

One. One hand, clasped tight around the sword hilt. Only one. "In my dreams I always have two hands." He raised his right arm and stared uncomprehending at the ugliness of his stump.

I think the narrative that is being told in the color symbolism present in Jaime’s story is the realization that glory has no presence in the man he wants to become. He gradually realizes again the truth of the golden hand covering his stump being a golden lie. It is more an embodiment of his sins, a heavy burden he carries. True honor and change will not be wrapped in gold, and obviously not crimson. But this should not lead to the return of his cynicism, which is how he approaches this early on, and why he wants to delude himself about it. He greys, and he sheds the red and gold color. The white becomes him. The crimson & gold comes back when he does his duty for the horrid Lannister regime, when he sustains loyalty to his family, and emulates his father. Nonetheless, he keeps drawing nearer to the blank white shield at the bottom of his page and distancing himself from the crimson at the top. But maybe the lesson is that he cannot start over like that. Maybe his only choices are not the evil Kingslayer and the glittering Goldenhand the Just. Maybe he should just be Jaime. That white shield is tainted. Our good actions do not wash out the bad. They will exist simultaneously. You will never be the golden heir, the perfect pure white Just Knight. You are a crippled broken man. But that does not mean you cannot choose to continue living and keep pushing to change for the better:

“What else can I do, but die?”

“Live,” she said

Maybe the blank white shield is an impossible ideal not made for him. But what remains if he cannot be crimson, gold, or the pure white?

yet she knew it was him. “Even at a distance, Ser Jaime Lannister was unmistakable. The moonlight had silvered his armor and the gold of his hair, and turned his crimson cloak to black.”

He was always meant to be a grey character. Why don’t we mix that black & white?

#something about the gold of his armor and hair being silvered turning closer to white and his crimson cloak turning black #and it is the moon #the graceful crescent during the night he decided to live #and its as early as agot?:?): #i love being delusional guys #asoiaf #jaime lannister #valyrianscrolls #asoiaf meta #also the ‘Jaime resolved to be the first man on the battlements. And with this golden hand of mine most like the first to fall’ #he is at it again oml #frank reynolds ‘sulclde is badass’ on loop #anyway the build up works very well with the vows of taking the black

[docpiplup]

I'm starting to do a re-read of Jon and Dany's POV chapters, and it's very interesting that just starting their chapters of AGOT, Jon I and Daenerys I, some parallels can be noticed between them

It's the first POV chapters for both characters, so the ones in which we get to know them (although Jon has appeared previously on Bran I, we get a different perspective, Bran perspective in Jon is like the older cool and calm brother, but now we get to know Jon's inner thoughts) and the main part of Jon I and Daenerys I are set on a feast.

Both are observant young teens that attend to a feast, for example we note that Dany and Jon make descriptions of many of the attendants at the feast and see some details like desdain and anger of Cersei during the feast, and even Benjen pleases or Dany noticing that Illyrio's sweet words are just mere and false words to please Viserys, which Viserys believes without reasoning and wholeheartedly.

Jon

.....

Dany

.....

Feasts in which both Dany and Jon will start their journey, one that both they'll have to start despite they don't want to, Jon joining the NW because he doesn't fit in Winterfell because he's a bastard and Dany because she has to marry Drogo due to Viserys' interests to conquer Westeros.

Also this idea fits with the following quotes, Jon and Dany thinking they would give anything to be in other simpler situation:

Jon

Dany

#jon snow #daenerys targaryen #canonjon #canondany #snowstorm #jonerys #asoiaf reread #agot #a game of thrones #asoiaf meta

[reignof-fyre]

The argument/excuse that Alicent was too young to be a good mother is such garbage.

Catelyn Tully was 14 when she had Robb, and despite how I feel about her attitude towards Jon, she loved her kids. She was the best mother toward her kids. Was she flawed? Yes.

Rhaenyra had Jace at, like, 17 -18. She's a flawed person but a brilliant mother and adores her kids.

My mother was a teenager when she had my oldest brother, and she refused my grandparents (her mum and stepdad) offer to adopt my brother. She has been the best mother ever. She was a single teen parent.

But what most don't seem to understand is that in The World of Ice and Fire, which is based upon medieval England, a female came of age when they bled for the first time. It was proof that they were ready to bear children.

In our history, one of my favourite bamf mothers is Margaret Beaufort. She was thirteen when she gave birth to Henry Tudor, later the first Tudor king of England.

So many women in our history were expected to, once they menstruated for the first time, marry a man - no matter their age - and bear children.

That's what a lot of people seem to forget when it comes to AGOT and HOTD.

These worlds are not based upon the 21st century and our own society and what is acceptable. It's based upon medieval England and yeah childbrides are gross as fuck and make me sick, but in this fictional world it's their normal. In actual fact, Alicent is actually weirdly old to have married at 15 when she likely bled earlier - but Otto wanted his blood on the throne and waited to use her.

Not to mention a lot of mothers in this time period foist their kids off to nannies, governesses, and maids to raise. Royal mothers rarely had much to do with their children's rearing until they hit 5 or so. They didn't even breast feed their own kids. It was very hands off parenting.

So, no, Alicent - according to the time period she's in - is not a child bride. She was raised with the expectation that she would marry for alliances, likely to a man older than her and someone she wouldn't necessarily like. She knew this, and she likely accepted and agreed with it.

Hell, in the books alicent gladly and eagerly becomes queen-consort because of the power it affords her. In the books, she wants that power and status so much she goes against a nine year old girl (rhaenyra) to gather sycophants and followers. The show ruined Alicent's character so much.

In the books she's a worthy, almost Cersei-level antagonist.

In the show she's just a pathetic, victim-complex, child abusing, treasonous bitch.

#anti alicent hightower #anti show alicent #hotd #meta #catelyn tully #margaret beaufort #rhaenyra targaryen #the books are superior to the show #the term childbride doesnt exist in asoiaf #asoiaf #agot #house of the dragon

[kinslayer-sapphire]

Why Tywin didn’t plot with the Tyrells to kill Joffrey!

Some people assume that Tywin plotted with Olenna and the Tyrells to kill Joffrey, make Tommen king, and scapegoat Tyrion.

Granted, it sounds like a smart plan and one with many benefits to Tywin such getting a puppet king and having his loathed dwarf son killed as a “obvious” offender.

However, just because it’s obvious doesn’t necessarily imply that it’s true. In fact George R.R. Martin loves the unexpected and challenging expectations but not in the Dumb and Dumber way…

As much as Tywin thought of Joffrey as a foolish brat without the knowledge or aptitude for being King of Westeros. He did try to help Joffrey govern and learn as King. He even gave Joffrey lessons on how sometimes mercy against your enemies is beneficial.

Whether or not that Tywin like having Joffrey as king; he is still his grandson and son of Cersei . . . and Jaime as well. There is NO WAY Tywin would commit kingslaying and kinslaying against his OWN grandson when he refused to king-slay Aerys Targaryen, who molested and insulted his wife and refused to kin-slay Tyrion during his childhood who caused his wife death in childbirth.

Tywin might not have been the most faith man to the Faith of the Seven but kingslaying and kinslaying is a massive taboo and crime against the faith and gods that Tywin wouldn’t commit.

For all of Tywin faults, the man loves his legacy and family. It one of main reasons he didn’t assassinate Tytos and Tyrion despite his hatred of them for being lighthearted fools and manwhores that weaken his family name. Despite Tywin hatred of Tyrion he refused to let Lysa, Vale, and Riverlands get away with imprisoning Tyrion. I’m inclined to believe Tywin would be the same regarding Joffrey. Joffrey is his grandson, Cersei’s son, Jaime’s son and a pure-blooded Lannister. I can’t see Tywin being cool with the Tyrells poisoning his first-born grandson and first Lannister King in centuries because of his cruelties.

Tywin is a cruel man that massacred and genocided the Tarbecks and Reynes of Castamere for refusing to paid their debts to their Lord Paramount of the Westerlands and Head of House Lannister; his father. While Joffrey executing Lord Eddard was a ruthless, brutal, and brash decision. I believe Tywin could understand Joffrey’s fury and rage at Ned for trying to steal his “birthright” away for Stannis, a man that probably wants Cersei, Jaime, Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen heads on spikes for treason against the Crown and House Baratheon.

I believe that with time, experience, and tutelage. Tywin believes he could mold Joffrey’s cruelty and brutality into an effective sword rather than a brutish hammer for House Lannister. Considering that unlike Jaime he has a penchant for Power and Authority and not the physicals of being a dwarf like Tyrion or a female like Cersei. The difference between Tywin thoughts and treatment of Tyrion and Joffrey is that Tywin truly LOATHES Tyrion on a personal level over Joanna’s death in childbirth along with being a lustful drunkard dwarf that hinders Tywin’s and House Lannister image in bigoted Westerosi society. Tywin can handle Joffrey’s cruelty and ruthlessnesss just as he had previously with Aerys II and his own daughter Cersei. Seven Hells, Tywin is ruthless and cruel himself. He brutally murdered Reynes & Tarbecks along with Elia Martell and baby Aegon & toddler Rhaenys Targaryen. Tywin doesn’t want Joffrey to be a kind king but an effective and efficient king. Joffrey just need Tywin’s guidance and training just like Tommen did.

#asoiaf #agot #game of thrones #asoiaf meta #game of thrones meta #game of thrones headcanon #asoiaf headcanons #house lannister #house baratheon #house tyrell #tywin lannister #cersei lannister #jaime lannister #tyrion lannister #joffrey baratheon #myrcella baratheon #tommen baratheon #stannis baratheon #eddard stark #olenna redwyne #olenna tyrell

[chilled-ice-cubes]

the way both theon and jon love robb so much....he loves them like they’re his true brothers and they love him back but hate each other. both out of jealousy and because they instinctively understand what exactly the other finds in robb...two outsiders who are of house stark but not part of it, they don’t bear the name and they know they’ll be made to leave one day. and neither of them can truly connect with robb the way a trueborn brother can, they’re constantly hampered by their place in society. like, theon is a hostage, the son of an enemy noble house. he doesn’t have the bond of common blood. jon does have that bond, but he isn’t a legitimate child, there are things theon can do with robb that he can’t simply due to his birth and position in society. and theon and jon, consciously or unconsciously understand this - but it’s not like they can fight society. so it’s easier to just hate the other boy who has the chance to make memories you can’t with the brother you both love.

#cryinggg the reread is too painful #robb don’t let ur bros go!!! keep them with you!!!! #agot reread #asoiaf #asoiaf meta #jon snow #theon greyjoy #robb stark #anya.txt

[baleriontheblackkitten]

A Game of Thrones - Bran I

Oh the innocence of summer days …

The morning had dawned clear and cold, with a crispness that hinted at the end of summer. They set forth at daybreak to see a man beheaded, twenty in all, and Bran rode among them, nervous with excitement. This was the first time he had been deemed old enough to go with his lord father and his brothers to see the king’s justice done. It was the ninth year of summer, and the seventh of Bran’s life.

Immediately we are given some key information: summer is ending, and Bran is too young to have experienced anything but summer. Out of metaphor, he is a child, innocent to the dangers and evils of his world. But his innocence won't last long yet - he's been deemed old enough to see a man being beheaded. He's about to learn about the evil that waits outside of the happy bubble of Winterfell.

The fact that the first thing we see Ned Stark do it to behead a man in the name of the king's justice, obviously stands in simmetry to the last thing that happens to him. It is incredibly meaningful that he's bringing Bran along with his oldest sons to witness the beheading: Bran is younger than his sisters Sansa and Arya, but the girls are not taught in the matters of politics and leadership, and left carefully away from matters of death and blood. And yet, the very two Stark children who are not present to Gareth's beheading are the two who will be there to witness Ned's beheading. The girls are going to learn about politics and violence on their own skin - and, incidentally, Ned's insistence they stay away from these matters is going to hurt everyone.

(Interestingly, Catelyn was raised like a boy in this sense, as his brother was born late and his father was not really counting on having a male heir anymore, so he taught Catelyn about politics and leadership. Sadly her political savvyness does not save her, but not due to a failing on her part, but because her opponents stop acting on the level of politics and start acting on a whole different level. On the level of politics, eating the Freys' bread and salt would keep them safe. What Tywin and the Freys do is a betrayal of the rules of politics. But I'm sooo digressing.)

Another note about this first paragraph: the king's justice. It is the solemn name for the administration of justice carried in the name of the king of the realm, but it's also a little hint of what the king's justice is. We, the readers, know that Gareth does not deserve to die. What the Starks' party believes to be justice is not. Little foreshadowing of Ned learning the truth about Robert beyond the idealized image he has of his friend, and about the vipers' nest that the court is.

Robb thought he was a wildling, his sword sworn to Mance Rayder, the King-beyond-the-Wall. It made Bran’s skin prickle to think of it. He remembered the hearth tales Old Nan told them. The wildlings were cruel men, she said, slavers and slayers and thieves. They consorted with giants and ghouls, stole girl children in the dead of night, and drank blood from polished horns. And their women lay with the Others in the Long Night to sire terrible half-human children.

This, of course, sounds clearly like a pile of stereotypes (bits of truth twisted and blown out of proportion mixed with falsehoods) about the "others" in the sense of the "people who are not Us and are Bad", but that also intertwine with stories about the Others with a capital O. People in the North of Westeros have confused stories and warnings about the Others with the humans living beyond the Wall, which makes them identify the wrong target as the enemy.

Then again, I am sure that the tales Old Nan tells about the wildlings are true in the sense that some wildlings must have done those things in some form. "Slavers" is not really that uncommon in their world; "slayers" is a very generic word; "thieves" really depend on your concept of property. "Consorting with giants and ghouls" - not sure about ghouls but giants are just creatures who live up there and have relations with the humans. Stealing children . . . while it's boys and not girls, the Others do that with Craster's male babies. As for girls, well, "stealing" someone can mean different things, and there are rituals around "stealing" a girl to get with her. Drinking blood from horns sounds like a ritual ancient populations would do - we know that ancient humans practiced cannibalism, most likely for ritual reasons. Drinking blood as a religious-y ritual doesn't seem that far-fetched and does not mean that a population is "evil", just with rituals that are different from yours. And. Well. Cannibalism is. Uh. A bit of a theme around here.

The part about women lying with the Others and giving birth to half-human children sounds like GRRM dropping a line that anticipates something that will be very important later.

I love how Bran sees his older brothers and his father, solemn and tall while he's tiny and does his best not to look out of place.

Bran’s father sat solemnly on his horse, long brown hair stirring in the wind. His closely trimmed beard was shot with white, making him look older than his thirty-five years. He had a grim cast to his grey eyes this day, and he seemed not at all the man who would sit before the fire in the evening and talk softly of the age of heroes and the children of the forest. He had taken off Father’s face, Bran thought, and donned the face of Lord Stark of Winterfell.

And I cry. Ned's arc in the book is struggling between acting as father and as Lord Stark, just like Cat will be struggling with juggling her role as mother and Lady Tully-Stark, and it's not a struggle that any of them can win. Just like Robb and Jon cannot win the struggle between their role as a brother and their respective roles as king and brother of the Night's Watch.

(Btw, thirty-five is a reasonable age to start getting white in your beard, Bran. It also usually makes men look hotter rather than older. I can tell you're 7.)

We are also introduced to a detail about Ned that is not really discussed much but I find so interesting: literally the first depiction we have of him is how he tells his children stories about the past of their land. It's usually the women who are portrayed as the keepers and tellers of the stories, but Ned is mentioned to do the same. It frames him in a "feminine" light, painting him as caring towards his children in a way Westerosi society tends to expect from women, especially with the adverb "softly" associated to him.

He's a good father by the fire of Winterfell. He's going to be disastrous at it outside of his home, and knowing that's not his nature makes it even more tragic.

To be fair, there is a divide in the kind of stories that Bran associates to Old Nan and the kind of stories he associates to his father: Old Nan is said to tell him about the horrors that lie beyond the Wall, stories of cruel men and monsters and blood; Ned is said to tell him stories of the ancient heroes and the children of the forest. This is a divide that says something about gender, but maybe also says something about how Bran perceives Old Nan and his father respectively. And also something about how their culture perceives their past … The man will tell the children about an edulcorated, "inspiring" version of the past; the elderly woman will focus on the gritty details to frighten the children a little (be a good child and obey your parents or the Evil Things will get you - classic old lady babysitting children move!).

(This reminds me of my dad telling me tales like Odysseus' adventures or the stories of the Scarlet Pimpernel when I was little. Forgive me the personal anedocte but my dad has passed away between my first read of the books and now - I wonder if I'll read the books differently because of it.)

Anyway. Ned' stories and Old Nan's stories - what is the truth? Probably somewhere in the middle - there are no heroes, but no inherently evil men either. Humans are just humans, their noble ancestors and the wildlings alike. (The Others, on the other hand …)

“Ice,” that sword was called. It was as wide across as a man’s hand, and taller even than Robb. The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke.

That's a big ass sword. No wonder they decided to just make two normal swords out of it. But also I believe that Robb is not really that tall, Bran just thinks he's tall because Robb is his big brother, so "taller even that Robb" is not actually the amazing description Bran thinks it is. I am fond of my mental image of Robb as a short guy, okay? He's described as muscular while Jon is slender, so I imagine Jon as tall and Robb as stocky. He is forced by circumstances to act like a big important grownup but is just a kid trying his best :')

Anyway - first connection between the Starks and the Others. The Other that kills Waymar Royce has a longsword that is described more like ice than metal:

In its hand was a longsword like none that Will had ever seen. No human metal had gone into the forging of that blade. It was alive with moonlight, translucent, a shard of crystal so thin that it seemed almost to vanish when seen edge-on. There was a faint blue shimmer to the thing, a ghost-light that played around its edges, and somehow Will knew it was sharper than any razor.

And the Starks have a longsword called Ice. It is Valyrian steel, imbued with magic that can kill the Others, but its name recalls the Others, who bring freezing cold with them. Who are the Kings of Winter, really? The sword's name is a statement from House Stark - our weapon is ice. In fact, next to this detail, "winter is coming" sounds like something that used to be meant as a threat before shifting to more of a warning. Our strength is the cold, and the cold is getting stronger. It's no wonder there are so many theories about the Others being originally made by the Starks or even ancient Starks themselves! One thing it's for sure - whatever the Others are and however they came to be, the Starks are not alien to it.

The head bounced off a thick root and rolled. It came up near Greyjoy’s feet. Theon was a lean, dark youth of nineteen who found everything amusing. He laughed, put his boot on the head, and kicked it away.

Oh Theon. How much is he an asshole and how much is he performing the asshole he's expected to be? Later, when he explicitly performs being what people expect Theon Greyjoy to be, he acts in a similar manner. Was it always a performance? Either way, Theon is so acutely aware of how he's perceived …

[Robb] was big and broad and growing every day - nobody say anything, this is Bran seeing Robb as big because Bran is tiny. "Growing every day" simply means he hit puberty really late and only now experiencing some growth spurt! This is also confirmed by the fact he's barely starting to grow a beard at all. He is short because I say so. *It is law Obama gif*

Robb and Jon are described so well as an age where they're almost grown but also still kids. They talk about the executed man like grownups but then race on their horses as a game like they must have done a million times since they were little … and I cry.

The conversation between Ned and Bran is so important and beautiful. It tells a lot about Ned, foreshadows Bran holding responsability as a leader and dispenser of justice one day (yes, I do believe he's going to become some sort of leader figure for the Seven Kingdoms, no I don't believe he's going to become Thee King of the Seven Kingdoms, as that won't be a thing anymore). A ruler who hides behind paid executioners soon forgets what death is - I'm chewing glass. Ned's whole fall starts from standing up to Robert about sending assassins after an exiled kid and ends with a boy king who orders others to commit acts of violence.

“We hold to the belief that the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword. If you would take a man’s life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die. “One day, Bran, you will be Robb’s bannerman, holding a keep of your own for your brother and your king, and justice will fall to you. When that day comes, you must take no pleasure in the task, but neither must you look away.”

I'm thinking of Sansa and Arya, both - in very different ways - sentencing people to die by proxy while physically and symbolically away from Winterfell. Arya in Harrenhall with the names she gives Jaqen, Sansa in King's Landing speaking her truth about Joffrey to the Tyrells, which she later realizes was an unintentional death sentence. But later Arya starts committing her killings in person, and especially the sentence of the Night's Watch deserter reconnect her to the Stark way, as that's the very kind of sentence Ned is doing in his first appearance here. So I expect that Sansa, too, whenever she will need to sentence someone to death … maybe she won't swing the sword herself, as that's not exactly her thing, but she will look at the man in the eyes and hear his last words. I do think Sansa deserves to spill a little blood, though, as a treat. (This is kind of a joke, Sansa doesn't need to spill blood, but as a reader I find both options valid.)

“That was when Jon reappeared on the crest of the hill before them. He waved and shouted down at them. “Father, Bran, come quickly, see what Robb has found!” Then he was gone again. Jory rode up beside them. “Trouble, my lord?” “Beyond a doubt,” his lord father said. “Come, let us see what mischief my sons have rooted out now.”

I cry. That's such a cute moment, Jon acting like an excited kid like he's supposed to be! Ned amused by his sons being mischievous boys! Robb and Jon talk in excited voices, Theon is laughing and joking. Chewing glass again.

The way the adults are disquieted by the presence of direwolves south of the Wall and want to kill them, while the kids are enamored by the pups and insist on keeping them … magical bond or not, it paints them as the kids they are, eager to keep puppies that the adults would rather not, considering them too much of a responsibility/burden.

Except the Stark kids won't just adopt any puppy, nope. I love the mental image of the Stark kids as absolutely crazy for everyone else's standards. Imagine being Catelyn Tully, normal ass person from some normal ass place. "Darling, the kids found some puppies, I told them they can keep them if they take care of them themselves" - you're like mmm well okay I guess, and then find out the puppies are monstrous mega-wolves.

“You have five trueborn children,” Jon said. “Three sons, two daughters. The direwolf is the sigil of your House. Your children were meant to have these pups, my lord.” Bran saw his father’s face change, saw the other men exchange glances. He loved Jon with all his heart at that moment. Even at seven, Bran understood what his brother had done. The count had come right only because Jon had omitted himself. He had included the girls, included even Rickon, the baby, but not the bastard who bore the surname Snow, the name that custom decreed be given to all those in the north unlucky enough to be born with no name of their own. Their father understood as well. “You want no pup for yourself, Jon?” he asked softly. “The direwolf graces the banners of House Stark,” Jon pointed out. “I am no Stark, Father.”

And yet later Jon notices the sixth pup, which confirms him as a real Stark too, despite his name. (His name is also not his real name, anyway.)*

*I find it super funny when people making up "Lyanna lives" AUs keep the baby's name as Jon. Like. Lyanna had no reason to name her baby Jon. Telling everyone the baby's name is Jon is Ned's way to announce "yoo here's my bastard baby, which I named after my father figure Jon Arryn, definitely my own baby, see, no one else's, this is not suspicious at all".

This is probably too early in my re-read for spec about Jon's future, but hey. I struggle so much as picturing Jon ever becoming associated with a dragon, I'm probably the only person in the fandom, but hey.

The only way I could see it is if Ghost dies, leaving Jon without a direwolf, like Sansa. In that case I could see it as more believable.

Then again, Theon commenting that the albino puppy will be the first to die suggests to me that Ghost isn't dying any time soon. So, really, I can't picture Jon becoming a dragonrider! But again, we're just at the second chapter of the series. Speculation about the future books can wait.

(I did delete a wholeass paragraph here where I super digressed lol.)

Bran thought it curious that this pup alone would have opened his eyes while the others were still blind.

SIGHT THEME MY BELOVED. Red eyes, open and seeing, like a weirdwood tree's, like Bloodraven's.

Speaking of eyes! I never noticed the detail from this very chapter, "Jon’s eyes were a grey so dark they seemed almost black". I had always pictured Jon with light grey eyes - not Bolton light, but not dark, either. Dark grey makes me think of Valyrian steel, described as the color of smoke.

Also. Speaking of the sight/eyes theme:

Bran’s bastard brother Jon Snow moved closer. “Keep the pony well in hand,” he whispered. “And don’t look away. Father will know if you do.” Bran kept his pony well in hand, and did not look away. […] Bran could not take his eyes off the blood. The snows around the stump drank it eagerly, reddening as he watched.

“The deserter died bravely,” Robb said. […] “He had courage, at the least.” “No,” Jon Snow said quietly. “It was not courage. This one was dead of fear. You could see it in his eyes, Stark.” Jon’s eyes were a grey so dark they seemed almost black, but there was little they did not see. He was of an age with Robb, but they did not look alike. […] Robb was not impressed. “The Others take his eyes,” he swore.

“If you would take a man’s life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die. “One day, Bran, you will be Robb’s bannerman, holding a keep of your own for your brother and your king, and justice will fall to you. When that day comes, you must take no pleasure in the task, but neither must you look away.”

Bran glimpsed blind eyes crawling with maggots [of the mother direwolf]

“Theon Greyjoy said, “There’s not been a direwolf sighted south of the Wall in two hundred years.” “I see one now,” Jon replied. Bran tore his eyes away from the monster. That was when he noticed the bundle in Robb’s arms.

Mmm. There's a thing here.

As I was saying in the previous chapter, there's a whole theme around sight, blindness, and eye color. If an unnatural, unhuman blue is the color of the Other's eyes, blood red is the color of the opposite side. I don't think that, at the end of the day, it's dragons the definitive key to defeating the Others. Not Jon's Targaryen side, but Jon's Stark side. The direwolf. Sure, fire helps, but everyone assumes too easily, imo, that fire is the solution (Melisandre and the other followers of the Lord of Light, Maester Aemon when he supposedly realizes that the prophecy would be about Dany, her dragons being proof of it).

I know the series is called A song of ice and fire. But the Targaryens have very little to do with the North! Even in this very chapter, Ned highlights how the culture of the Stark differs from the Targeryens':

“[…] The question was not why the man had to die, but why I must do it.” Bran had no answer for that. “King Robert has a headsman,” he said, uncertainly. “He does,” his father admitted. “As did the Targaryen kings before him. Yet our way is the older way. The blood of the First Men still flows in the veins of the Starks […]”

Bran is also the first character who flies, while in his coma from falling. No need for dragons, is there?

But I think I've written enough for this chapter! I'll stop here or I'll run out of things to say for other chapters.

So, what are your thoughts? (I'm speaking into the void as no one is reading these yet, but hey. Fake it til you make it.)

#marghe re reads asoiaf #asoiaf meta #my asoiaf thoughts #agot #agot bran i #asoiaf

[jeynearrynofthevale]

Bran being the first pov character introduced is so meaningful to me personally. And seeing his introduction to the stark thesis of executing those you condemn yourself is so interesting knowing that he will be physically unable to do so.

This sentiment is clearly a good one. That if you sentence someone to death, you need to take full accountability for it. But it also echoes the strong patriarchal culture of the North and its norms. What if you cannot swing the sword? What if you’re a smaller woman without the strength? What if you’re disabled? Should that disqualify you? And how do you keep the spirit of this idea alive even if the practice is impossible?

#asoiaf #bran stark #Sarah reads asoiaf #Sarah reads agot #asoiaf meta