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cienie-isengardu · 1 year

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I see a lot in fics this portrayal of stormtroopers/501st as being intensely loyal to Vader, sometimes even over the Empire. Is that really true in canon/Legends? I know Lords of the Sith referenced this, but otherwise I haven't read enough of the EU to confirm how much of this is just fanon. I'm assuming you know bc of your Vader's Men tag lol

The intensive stormtrooper training is conditioning people to be loyal to Empire and so obedience to Vader, as the one of highest imperial commanders is a natural order of the things but yes, there are stories and tie-in materials that strongly suggest or outright says that certain stormtroopers and imperial officers in fact admire Darth Vader and their loyalty run beyond the usual level of allegiance required from imperial soldiers. So no, this portrait in fanwork is not solely invention of fans as it has a solid ground in source materials although it should be taken into account that:

a) the level of personal loyalty will vary from one character to another

b) there are not many stories in which imperial soldiers are forced to choose between Vader and the Emperor so it is really hard to predict if those people are in fact more loyal to Vader as a person than to the Empire(Palpatine) as a whole. When it comes to imperial army, in most cases Vader and the Empire/Palpatine are seen as inseparable as Vader is the epitome of loyalty to Empire to most Imperials (which makes sense, as Vader usually rely on bounty hunters or his vast different sort of agents if his personal goals are against Palpatine’s will and the discretion is needed. Otherwise he is commanding troopers to kill/destroy whoever incur his anger and then deals with his master’s displeasure).

The second point is especially vital in regard to imperials like admiral Piett that in general is acknowledged in sources as one of officers that Vader truly respects but through the decades Firmus sadly didn’t get that much focus as character to give us absolute certainty of his allegiance beyond the general idea of “serving the Empire”. Which makes it hard to make an objective analysis if Piett was forced to choose, would he betray the Empire out of loyalty to Vader or not. A scenario that has been a common thing in fanwork for years. Which is why I’m bringing Piett to illustrate that fans’ interpretation of imperial characters and their loyalty to Vader may be exaggerated beyond what sources provided. Which doesn’t necessarily mean it is a wrong assumption but rather that focus of tie-in materials is pretty much limited when it comes to Imperials, especially those of Old Trilogy or stormtroopers in general.

At the same time, Vader was introduced from the start as someone that has a better working relationship with common troopers and the imperial officers serving directly under him than with high-ranking Imperials. There is no need to look further than A New Hope to see the difference between how the Sith Lord acts around his men and Admiral Motti (or later in The Empire Strikes Back, how he treats Admiral Ozzel or Captain Needa). It shows up in his speech patterns, like “There'll be no one to stop us this time” or “We’ll have to destroy them ship to ship” when he is talking to his men (as he is including himself and his men in the “us/we”) but it is for sure a me vs you talk with Motti during a meeting on Death Star. When questioned by Commander Daine Jir* Vader is willing to explain himself and shows zero anger at the man for not obeying at once

while having no second thought about force-choking admiral Motti. Through the Original Trilogy, Vader did not threaten common imperial troopers but he did not have any reservations about killing the officers if they failed him. What is even more important, Vader is one of few high-ranking imperials that takes an active part in widely understood “warzone”, be it the search of stolen Death Star’s plans or taking part in space battle to protect the imperial station or taking over rebel Echo Base on Hoth - and tie-in material even claims that Vader flying his own fighter into battle(s) incurs the wrath of high officers,which implies the Dark Lord of the Sith’s active part during fight breaks imperial norms.

This is the ground on which I believe was built the idea that stormtroopers may feel a great respect and even personal loyalty for Vader - and to be honest, from the perspective of common soldiers it makes perfect sense. Vader is the right-hand man of Emperor Palpatine, a man that wields a mystic power and runs the Empire and who for sure does not need to risk his life on the battlefield yet he is marching alongside stormtroopers into one battle after another, sometimes even saving said troopers in the process (x)(x)(x) while most high-ranking officers (especially those presented in the Old Trilogy) usually stay behind in the safety while soldiers die fighting. Also, quite often the sources provided examples in which Vader on purpose does not involve troopers accompanying him into fights as he prefers to face dangerous and personal foes/tasks alone (x)(x)(x)(x)("Go," Vader said to them. "The ship is lost." Most of them nodded, turned, and headed off immediately, but three of the stormtroopers remained. "Sir, we should accompany you to an escape pod." "Unnecessary," Vader said. "I'll find my own way. Now go. That's my order.", Lords or the Sith) which I suspect is another habit of Vader that common stormtroopers may interpret as specific sign of their commander’s care for their well-being - is it truth or not is up to debate of course, but whatever the reasoning, it really looks like Vader did not endanger the lives of soldiers unnecessarily and even could kill an officer that ordered the troops into an unwinnable scenario. Or like Ozzel did, lost the element of surprise for imperial invasion.

And really, the image of Vader leading troops or being surrounded by stormtroopers is one of the most common things in the Star Wars franchise that is included in films, comics, books, games and other tie-in materials. Considering what a powerhouse Vader is on his own, it is easy to imagine how his presence on battlefront raises morale of imperial soldiers or why it means so much to stormtroopers to know the Dark Lord of the Sith is there with them on battlefront.

Another thing that adds a lot to common troopers’ perception of the Dark Lord is that Vader does not care for people’s place of origin, family or political connections or even species. Through the sources Vader favors skills, competence and loyalty above anything else. Which means that people born in Outer Rims or people for whatever reason not meeting the specific standards set by the military/political elite can easily get promoted under Vader’s wings if they prove themselves - be it on battlefront or thinking outside the box (x followed by x). And this especially was visible in older sources, when aliens, women and droids were part of a wide range of Vader’s agents despite the bias toward those groups within the Empire. So working with Vader often resulted with many benefits in the long run for those who managed to impress the Dark Lord. What is very important, as many promising troopers and officers that normally would be hold back by lack of proper connection or birthplace were hand-picked personally by the Dark Lord of the Sith, either for his 501st Legion or for general benefit of the Empire - what for many “lowly cogs in the imperial machine” literally means new possibilities opened up solely thanks to Vader and this probably adds a lot of weight to their personal loyalty. Serving under Vader could bring a person a chance for fast promotion (general Veers is the best example) but also provide protection (x)(x) or access to the best medical help even when said person couldn’t anymore serve the Dark Lord, as happened with Erv Lekauf:

Vader’s suit could withstand nearly every assault. But Lekauf, a man trained to react without pausing to debate, flung himself in front of him and took the brunt of the flame. He fell, gasping, as the clones closed in on the Dark Jedi and Vader burst apart their Force shields with pure focused rage. [A Two-Edged Sword]

and

“My granddad thought the world of him. When he got badly burned on a mission and had to be discharged from the Imperial Army, Lord Vader made sure he was taken care of for the rest of his life. Whatever some people say about Vader, monsters don't look out for lieutenants." [Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice]

As I mentioned before, a great number of people serving Vader were hand-picked personally by the Dark Lord of the Sith which includes his own 501st Legion - and that for sure increases the reason for personal loyalty of said soldiers.

Members of the 501st are hand-picked by Lord Darth Vader from within the stormtrooper units. Battlefield promotions are awarded to those who earn his respect [The Imperial Handbook].

Worse, walking into a local garrison or fleet anchorage meant taking whatever they had available, whether good and competent or lazy and useless. Picking out random stormtroopers was an even shakier proposition these days, given Vader’s habit of periodically combing through the ranks and transferring all the best and brightest into his personal 501st Legion. [Choices of one]

When Lieutenant Daine Jir first spoke out against one of Darth Vader’s suggestions, murmurs of “dead man walking” immediately followed. But instead of choking the life out of the Imperial officer, Vader promoted him to the rank of commander.

Jir was one of few officers, along with Admiral Piett and Captain Janus Bonn, to earn Vader’s respect. The Dark Lord appreciated Jir’s brutal honesty, in contrast to the manipulative rhetoric of most Imperial lackeys. Jir, a competent and ruthless member of the 501st stormtrooper legion [...]

The New Canon also seems to follow this special bond that Vader has with some stormtroopers, as could be seen with sergeant Kreel (x) who was even gifted the Jedi lightsaber by the Dark Lord (though so far Kreel is also loyal to Palpatine… who has like zero idea or care who the stormtrooper is).

So to answer your question, yes, there are plenty of stormtroopers (or in general imperials) who greatly respect Darth Vader and in some cases this respect runs as deep as personal loyalty toward the Dark Lord of the Sith. And this specific bond between Vader and troopers can be traced through various source material, like:

For reasons that went beyond the armor and helmets, the imaging systems and boots, Vader felt more at home among the troopers than he did around other flesh-and-bloods.

And Appo and the rest of Vader's cadre of stormtroopers seemed to be at ease with their new superior. To them it was only reasonable that Vader wore a bodysuit and armor. Some had always wondered why the Jedi left themselves exposed, as if they had had something to prove by it. [Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader by James Luceno]

After Anakin Skywalker turned to the dark side, his 501st Legion clone troopers remained loyal to him. For their brutality and efficiency, they became known as “Vader’s fist”.

(And no, this has nothing to do with the chip-in-brain nonsense of TCW/New Canon)

(and here a fun fact! The Anakin/Vader's personal stormtrooper legion is named after fan organization 501st Legion that was introduced into canon thanks to Timothy Zahn and Lucasfilm, as a nod to fans and their great hand-made costumes and charity work! Which adds another layer why 501st Legion is always seen as the elite between elites and so important part of Anakin/Vader's legacy)

As the shuttle descended through Hockaleg’s atmosphere, Vader said, “I am curious about the details of your demotion.”

“It’s all on record, sir,” the trooper said, angling the shuttle toward the spaceport.

“I would prefer to hear it from you.”

“Permission to speak freely, sir?”

“Granted.”

The trooper cleared his throat.

“You are aware I’m a clone, sir?”

“Yes.”

“Well, twenty years ago, after Shadow Squadron was disbanded, I had a new commanding officer-a non-clone. When he ordered me to kill my gunner - who had been wounded in combat, but not mortally - I refused. And when my commanding officer tried to shoot me for refusing, I broke his jaw. I spent a year in solitary.”

Vader considered the details, then said, “What happened to the injured clone?”

“He recovered, although he was killed several months later during a bombing run.”

“Do you regret your actions?”

“No. sir. Everybody dies. I’m just glad I helped a friend live a bit longer.”

As the spaceport came into view, Vader said, “If you were to serve under my command, would you ever disobey an order?”

“Yes, sir, but only if it helped you live longer.”

Vader was stunned by the aged clone’s words and the implication that he might disobey one of his orders…or that he might consider the Sith Lord a friend. Before he could ask the clone for an explanation, the clone tested the comm and received a loud burst of static. [Vader Adrift]

or mentioned Erv Lerkauf

The assassins paused for a frantic reload.

“Lord Vader…” said Lekauf, but he was pinned flat by the Force, arms flailing.

“Stay down,” snapped Vader. […]

One man dropped instantly without his intervention. Vader lunged forward and sliced through two more, left-right. The fourth lost his arm and blaster in the same slicing movement and dropped to his knees, utterly silent, mouth open wide in frozen agony as he stared at the seared stump. Vader brought the lightsaber down across his neck. The hangar was silent now except for the sound of his own breath. He looked down at the back of the one man he hadn’t killed. The black tunic was still smoking a little.

“Fine shot, Lekauf,” said Vader. He released his Force pressure. “I told you to stay down.”

Lekauf got to his knees and holstered his blaster. “I never rose, my lord. I can fire from a prone position, though, and you made no mention of that.”

Lekauf stood up and went to him as if to check him for injury. It suddenly struck Vader that he was solid and a good height. And he was loyal enough to step in the line of fire, and then-defy him to cover his back.

Good man. At least one possible template, then. [In his Image]

and

""Me, too." Jacen found he enjoyed the company of 967. They all had the corporal's general optimism. "How long have you been in the army?"

"Since I graduated, sir. Four years."

"What made you sign up?"

Lekauf smiled, almost embarrassed. "My grandfather served under your grandfather in the Imperial Army, sir. He always talked about how Lord Vader put himself in the front line. Meant a lot to him, that did."

Jacen patted Lekauf's shoulder. It was humbling to see how loyalty could last generations. Whatever sins Anakin Skywalker had committed as Vader, there were still those who recognized his qualities as an inspirational commander. Jacen decided it might be safe to walk back in time and watch him again. [Legacy of the Force: Bloodlines]

or a nostalgia trip of retired stormtrooper:

Dark Lord told us it wasn’t our fault the Falcon got out from the Hoth blockade. Then he executed half the squad. But you could tell he was proud of us.

“Supreme confidence reigned in the heart of every crew member in this Imperial death squadron, especially among the personnel on the monstrous central Star Destroyer. But something also blazed within their souls. Fear - fear of merely the sound of the familiar heavy footsteps as they echoed through the enormous ship. Crew members dreaded these footfalls and shuddered whenever they were heard approaching, bringing their much feared, but much respected leader.” [The Empire Strikes Back]

I’ve heard that the regular officers hate him, but the Stormtrooper Corps almost worships him. [Lords of the Sith]

and

The Truest Duty by Christie Golden [From a Certain Point of View: The Empire Strikes Back]

And to be honest, this special stormtroopers’ admiration for Vader is not seen only in “serious” source material but also in humorous variations like Lego Star Wars Vader reading book to stormtroopers or Droid Tales episode 5, in which C-3PO and Lando distract stormtroopers with a tale about Darth Vader (and how the Lord of the Sith saved rebellion on Endor) and just look at the troopers happily listening about their boss.

So in general, fans may sometimes exaggerate the intensivity of stormtroopers or in general imperial soldiers' loyalty toward Vader but this specific bond between Dark Lord of the Sith and common soldiers is grounded deeply in star wars lore.

#star wars #darth vader #vader and stormtroopers #vader's men #my replies #sorry for not providing all source names and going with what i already posted on my tumblr #right now i'm visiting sister so i'm cut from my source material collection #sadly tie in materials doesn't focus much on common troopers #and even piett gets little proper focus beside TESB moments #veers on another hand is so die-hard fan of vader :D :D #but seriously just imagine you are just a stormtrooper and the one high ranking imperial that shows up on battlefield is vader #who not only fight side to side with imperial soldiers but usually is the person leading attack and fighting in the first line ahead #of everyone #it is not hard to imagine why stormtroopers admired vader so much even if the man is a beast that may or may not kill you at some point #clone troopers especially in legends were fond of vader as their commanding officer and the respect was mutual #but i guess tcw likes to mess with stuff like that lol

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nautilusopus · 1 year

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the link in that post i think leaves out most of what makes something kosher or not kosher actually so i’m just gonna add it here:

edit: hey what the fuck tumblr collapsed my bullet indentation

stuff that was in the link: certain animals are off limits, though it did not specify the criteria SO:

all mammals must have split hooves and chew their cud

birds must NOT be predators or scavengers

all fish must have fins and scales (also no scavengers)

all plants are inherently kosher

all dairy is inherently kosher, as long as it comes from a kosher mammal (and isn’t consumed with meat)

blood, even from a kosher animal, is absolutely verboten. more on this later.

the sciatic nerve is off limits. sirloin, unless great pains are gone to to remove the sciatic nerve, is often not kosher, even though it comes from a kosher animal. (there are other nerves that are and are not kosher but i’m not gonna get into that here and usually the only relevant one is the sciatic nerve)

some jews unilaterally just avoid hindquarter meat, since most butchers don’t bother to remove certain nerves/certain portions of fat. when taking this into account, a great deal of modern jews don’t actually keep kosher

some species from the genus orthoptera are kosher but all other arthropods are not

if you found it already dead, it’s not kosher

you may not cut off and eat a part of an animal without first slaughtering the animal. this one in particular isn’t really a problem these days, but back when there was no refrigeration and you couldn’t afford to butcher the whole animal at once lest it go to waste, it was a thing people sometimes did. less likely to go bad if it’s still alive and in horrible pain

you may not mix meat and dairy. the justification for this is that you are not supposed to boil the calf in its mothers milk (which was an actual dish at the time this was written), but you can have chicken with eggs ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

you must have separate sets of dishes for both meat and dairy. the two must never come into contact with one another, even indirectly by putting meat on a milchig plate, or stirring milk with a fleishig spoon

SLAUGHTER PROCEDURES:

this part is a lot of what rabbis get brought in for. the animal in question must die as painlessly as possible, so the knife must be EXTREMELY sharp. like, extremely sharp, to the point where if you cut yourself with it you don’t even notice it. you have to run your fingernail down it and if you feel even the slightest bump it has to be sent back for further sharpening, because the blade is required to be free of any imperfection.

you say a little prayer. this is less “blessing” and has been mentioned and more just a brief animal funeral rite

the animal in question must not be injured in any way prior to slaughter. this also includes the standard electric shock to incapacitate most animals for slaughter.

the throat is slit, and must be slit cleanly and in a highly specific way, and all the blood must be allowed to run out. following this, the meat is salted to remove any blood this procedure might have missed. this is the key difference between kosher and halal, as halal slaughter does include the painless death part but does not have any specific prohibition on blood, and depending on who you are will either do in a pinch or is still just as unacceptable as christian meat.

and this is just the brief overview. there are more regulations than this about the type of knife used, how it is oiled and sharpened, how certain cuts of meat need to be made, what does and doesn’t count as “incapacitated”, whether or not the cow’s offspring was killed too closely in terms of date to the cow, et cetera.

all this and more is why 1. kosher meat tends to be more expensive and 2. why you have a rabbi on-site to make sure everything is up to code. and there is a lot of code

UGH FINE I REWROTE IT WITHOUT INDENTATION. RUIN MY FORMATTING WHY DON’T YOU i hate this website

#source: i'm a shrimp-eating heathen now but i promise you i stuck to this stuff pretty stringently at one point in my life #i still don't drink milk if i'm having a meal with meat in it #even if the meat in question is in a cheeseburger #old habits die hard #jew stuff

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