#Retroactive Continuity

[cantsayidont]

March 1985. Whatever else one may say about the Crisis on Infinite Earths, it was a triumph for truth in advertising: Worlds lived, worlds died, and the DC Universe was never the same. A cynic might add, "And nothing ever made sense again," since the event kicked off almost 40 years of retcons, revisions, and successive reboots, which DC used to internally describe as "white events," after the cataclysmic moment in CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS #10 where the original multiverse was shattered and recreated:

Even before the Crisis event was ever conceived, DC had a long history of fairly dramatic editorial and creative shifts, some of which hung on specific story events (like the de-powering of Wonder Woman in 1968) and some of which did not (like the inauguration of Batman's "New Look" in 1964). With the benefit of hindsight, it's possible to make some general observations about editorial revisionism and efforts to tear down and rebuild internal continuity:

It's ultimately easier (and more effective) to ignore than to change. When Julius Schwartz became Batman editor in 1964, he dispensed with many characters and concepts that had been staples under his predecessor, Jack Schiff, such as Batwoman and Bat-Mite. With one exception, there was no story explanation of where they'd gone — they just stopped showing up and were soon forgotten. The exception was Alfred the butler, who was killed off dramatically in DETECTIVE COMICS #328. When the producers of the 1966 Batman TV show decided to incorporate Alfred into that series, Schwartz was obliged to resurrect him, in a singularly preposterous way, after which he was regarded as indispensable. By contrast, while most of the characters who'd simply been ignored also returned, it was much later and generally in quite minor ways; their long absence reduced them to marginalia that could be incorporated or not, as seemed most useful.

Crossovers are the most serious and persistent enemy of change. The nature of company-owned comics is that the characters will inevitably show up in crossovers, team-ups, and events of various kinds, often written, drawn, and edited by people who aren't familiar with the finer points of the characters' history, inevitably resulting in troublesome contradictions, up to and including characters who were previously supposed to be dead inexplicably popping up alive. The more convoluted a change to a character or their history, the more likely that it will misrepresented, accidentally undone, or just ignored the next time the character shows up in a series other than their own.

A true line-wide reboot is commercially infeasible. A publisher like DC or Marvel has many different titles at once, and at any given time, some of them are selling better than others. If a title isn't selling well, there may be nothing to lose by rebooting it or making drastic changes to its characters and direction, but doing that to a series that's currently a hot seller is foolhardy. So, the bestsellers will generally stroll through a "white event" with only minor cosmetic adjustments, while weaker titles may undergo a whole series of radical reinventions. If the former bestseller goes into a slump and one of those radical reinventions transforms an underdog into a hit, the situation will be reversed. Surely this won't backfire later …

Timing is everything. A lot of the confusion that resulted at DC in the wake of the Crisis stemmed from the fact that different revisions happened at different times. For instance, the headaches surrounding Hawkman began in large part because of the editorial decision in 1990 not to treat the Tim Truman HAWKWORLD series as a kind of "Hawkman: Year One" (which is how it was conceived), but rather as a reboot, even though that threatened to retroactively remove the Hawks from books like JUSTICE LEAGUE, which had become very popular following its most recent revamp. This kind of thing creates situations where creative teams have to come up with desperate contrivances to explain retroactive changes to very recent stories. Having Hawkman and Hawkwoman stop showing for Justice League adventures for a while wouldn't have been a big deal, but trying to assert that the Hawkman and Hawkwoman who'd previously appeared were either never really there or were actually somebody else was another matter, and the problems this created were never fully resolved.

Continuity-tidying for its own sake is almost always a creative dead end. This is a lesson that Nelson Bridwell and Roy Thomas demonstrated over and over throughout the Bronze Age: It's one thing to have some flashbacks, if it serves the story, or maybe to retell a character's origin with a few nips and tucks, but if your main purpose is to explain, e.g., why Namor once wore the wrong shorts, the results are likely to be either silly or tedious. This hasn't stopped DC and Marvel from wasting a lot of ink and paper on specials and miniseries that exist to retell earlier stories in an updated, continuity-compliant manner, usually to no good end. The fundamental problem with such things is that their main object is to regurgitate familiar older stories (if they weren't familiar, there would be no point in retelling them) while urging readers who have read the original version (who are the most likely audience) to ignore their lying eyes. This is, with very, very few exceptions, a dismal exercise that routinely defeats even usually reliable creators like John Ostrander (see for example the tiresome 2001–2002 JLA: INCARNATIONS), and frequently results in yet more contradictions to explain or ignore.

The bottom line is that while you can blow things up all you want, the likelihood that they can be reassembled in a clearer, more cohesive way is really quite low, and diminishes the more frequently you try.

I want to be clear here that this isn't a criticism of the CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS series (which has many virtues, along with some significant flaws), or even any of the individual revisions and retcons that have followed, some of which are, in their own right, perfectly fine. The dilemma is that the project that an event like this represents is ultimately a doomed one. It might spark some commercial interest, at least briefly (which is of course at least half the point), but simplification and unity are just not in the cards and probably never will be.

#comics #crisis on infinite earths #marv wolfman #george pérez #jerry ordway #retcons #retroactive continuity #hawkworld (both the truman mini and the ostrander ongoing) #is actually quite good and its troublesome continuity impact #would have been almost entirely avoidable #just as the continuity headaches with wonder woman and donna troy #could have been avoided by treating the first year of the relaunched wonder woman series #as taking place “a few years ago”

[beaft]

the fact that tolkien started writing lord of the rings, realised that the entire concept of the one ring made various plot elements of the hobbit fall to pieces, and dealt with this by saying 'the reason this makes no sense is because the hobbit is from bilbo's perspective and he fudged the truth' is already extremely powerful. but then he actually went the extra mile and re-released the book as essentially the same book but with the plot holes fixed and said 'please enjoy this Objectively True version of this story, untainted by bilbo's mischievous lies' like what a flex. absolute madlad

#playing the 'unreliable narrator' card to hide the fact that your sequel created a retroactive continuity error in your first book? #bold move #rewriting your first book to fix the stuff that didn't make sense? #INCREDIBLY bold move. #be shh now #lotr #the hobbit #i think more authors should do this instead of frantically trying to justify mistakes in their work #that thing you noticed that didn't make sense? don't worry about it bro. didn't happen #containment breach

[obscureenthusiast]

-Brutus and as many as 60 co-conspirators, circa March 14th, 44 BC

#ides of march #would you believe that I created this image all the way back in january STRICTLY BECAUSE I HAVE THAT MUCH BEEF WITH CAESAR? #this was created because he insisted that the Rhine was the border between Gaul and Germany #just so he could declare that he'd 'conquered' Gaul #but there's very little evidence that the peoples living in those places even viewed the Rhine as a barrier between lands #and their continued fighting against rome along that border line could indicate that they were in fact #attempting to reunite lands occupied by foreign invaders #anyway fuck you caesar i hope your triumph sucked ass #and that everyone who ever made bald jokes about you found idk a denarius in their pocket unexpectedly #yes i'm retroactively wishing dead people good and ill i'm complicated like that

[werewolf-cuddles]

Okay, so, unlike with Shiver, non-binary Dedf1sh does appear to actually be canon.

They're never referred to as such, but the DLC exclusively refers to them with they/them pronouns. I was unsure if this would actually be the case, given that they were referred to with she/her in earlier lore posts, and Shiver had previously been referred to with they/them in pre-release materials before using she/her in the final game.

Even in the Japanese script, they use the personal pronoun boku, which is typically considered masculine, but is also used for tomboys and people who are non-gender conforming.

So I think we can safely consider this to be a retcon.

#splatoon #splatoon 3 #dedf1sh #acht mizuta #ahato mizuta #nonbinary #side order #splatoon 3 side order #side order spoilers #splatoon 3 spoilers #splatoon 3 dlc spoilers #and just as a reminder #retcon is not a negative term #it is a NEUTRAL term #it is literally short for Retroactive Continuity

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

He's the biggest kid here. Large and In Charge.

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#poorly drawn mdzs #mdzs #wei wuxian #lan wangji #su she #lan jingyi #lan sizhui #jing ling #Who are the other juniors? Who ever you'd like them to be. I will probably have to retroactively tag them #(Hello! It's Fer from the Future. Here to retroactively add character tags!) #ouyang zizhen #nameless red disciple #The camp councilor energy continues! WWX's secret power/talent isn't demonic cultivation #its herding teenagers. One of the hardest entities to rally #I adore the uncle energy he has with Jin ling here. Oh you're gonna start banging at doors? No no don't stop #you're sooooo good at it why don't you keep going? Yell some more. Use your talents #If he keeps yelling he *might* summon the purple uncle so its a fine line to walk #The goal with jin ling in that last panel was the same energy as when you catch your dog eating something they shouldn't #and instead of running you enter a staring contest. Does this make any sense. #EDIT: I went to check my notes for this post last night and went “oh geez y'all hated this one huh” only to realize that I uh #saved it as a draft and didn't actually put it into the queue. MASSIVE head empty moment. #So sorry for ppl who got worried or were looking forwards to the comic update. I wish this one was funnier to make up for it.

[kagoutiss]

*complaining for no reason again because i am bored* i need more ppl to know that these. are all the same person these are literally canonically all the exact same individual person im begging u

literally almost all the ganondorfs are the exact same individual and almost all the ganons are the exact same individual, almost all the ganondorfs & ganons are the same exact person just in different forms and circumstances. except for FSA and maybe whatever the fuck is going on with TotK ganondorf but i still think it’s weird that he still has golden eyes & rounded ears when even the gerudo in TotK’s ancient past dont, but anyway ashfjsbfjsn

#not like you always have to subscribe to canon because it’s often impossible to know the truth of certain things #or some things that are canonical just suck and should be changed anyway but like #of all the things that are like relatively basic facts for ppl engaging in the Lore or whatever #ppl are like always. Always talking about ganondorf as if every iteration of him is a different person just like link & zelda #but so much of his character development stems from the fact that WW ganon and TP ganon are both different timeline offshoots of OoT ganon #i’m ​not even citing the ‘Official Timeline’ on this because it is silly & confusing but i just literally mean #in terms of basic canon continuity #that WW and TP were conceptualized even in the early 2000s to be the events that occur distantly after the two timeline splits OoT created #because OoT is a game about time travel and the entire concept of the split timelines in this series #originated from the two different scenarios that are created by link & zelda’s use of the master sword and the ocarina #WW ganondorf and TP ganondorf are both literal older versions of OoT ganondorf in 2 different futures #not to mention all of the ganons in the early games. OoT was made as a prequel that both literally and figuratively #attempted to humanize the main antagonist of the series #OoT ganondorf at the time WAS the ‘ganondorf with character development and an actual motivation’ #WW ganondorf (who is the same person.) just actually got to vocalize what specifically his motivation was #which is great!! and also retroactively gives OoT ganondorf more context & depth #can u tell i am off my meds at the moment and have nothing better to do with my time ahsjfhskfhdj

[makiswirl]

ova redraws (sillies)

#jjba #jojo's bizarre adventure #stardust crusaders #don't care much for the kak one. i think the rest came out ok tho:-) #had another one of these that i did for a twitter req but i dont care for it much retroactively...... since i posted these earlier there #was gonna do more and wait longer for this but i'll just post the first batch now #if i do more later i'll get there #and god the TAGS..... the cycle continues #jotaro kujo #noriaki kakyoin #jojo's bizarre adventure part 3 #jojo's bizarre adventure stardust crusaders #jjba ova #sdc ova #jojo ova #kujo jotaro #kakyoin noriaki #stardust crusaders ova #my art

[tastycitrus]

Barbara: Steph and Cass have been queerbaiting for nearly twenty slutty, slutty years... Steph and Cass, hearing this over comms: Steph: Oracle, what is that supposed to mean? Cass: What are you talking about? Steph: What the HELL is that supposed to mean??

#batgirl #batgirls #barbara gordon #stephanie brown #cassandra cain #stephcass #yeah i dunno #the slutty slutty years meme will never get old for me #can we still consider the years they were retconned from continuity as years they've been queerbaiting? #me: i mean retroactively speaking convergence batgirl revealed that they'd been living together since new 52 destroyed the continuity #so if we view it from an in-universe perspective pre-flashpoint stephcass never stopped queerbaiting

[katnissmellarkkk]

my aesthetics :

the second quarter quell generation, pt one (aka the generation with all the principal characters’ parents, and then also haymitch)

#thg #hunger games #haymitch abernathy #Katniss everdeen #Peeta mellark #maysilee donner #thgedit #okay so in order this goes #Haymitch Haymitch’s girl katniss’s parents Peeta’s parents and then the donner twins #i will make a part 2 with the characters if I can think of more than gales parents #if I can’t hazelle and her husband will be retroactively added into this one #myaesthetics #myedit #ya lit aesthetic #ya lit edit #and yeah this may be shameless promo one day for my lil 2nd quarter quell ficcy #which is why the little title for Mr E is confusing !!! because a lot of this is about my made up lore!!! his mom is Maude ivory but she #disappeared when he was a child #which is why Katniss knows nothing about her own gramma!!! #ok anyways if I ever write it all the little titles will make sense but for now they’re confusing because I made this specially for me for #my made up headcanons that make no sense to anyone else lololololol #oh oh oh also I put black eyes in both Katniss’ mom and Peeta’s mom’s edits for a reason!!! #ok so like I always interpreted it that abuse in the merchant class was more common #like what Peeta obviously went through at home was actually normalized in his circle #and it’s also implied Katniss’ mom was shunned by her parents for marrying Katniss’ dad so I figure they couldn’t have been good parents #and then Peeta’s mom Ruby also has blood on her own hands because we know she one day is abusive to her own kids so it’s like #she experienced abuse and then continues the terrible circle #but obviously Katniss’ mom lavender does not! she has other issues though but the young version is so fun to play with #also young Haymitch and his girl here would be the most judgey pretty couple #I have lots of headcanons for them some of which I’ve entwined already into at least one of my fics

[slitherpunk]

i want to move girl's quest to godot but i'm pretty frustrated because with girl's quest, i wanted to do something kind of complex and out of my comfort zone mechanically, and i thought, well, with my now 5 years of experience in unity i could finally make something like this. so now im like. man. this is rough. quite a lot i'd have to figure out all over again in a new engine.

#it's probably worth it though. i really don't want some new unity change that can retroactively fuck me over #it SUCKS SUCKS because with this now im like #gee. what if they change something and require me to pay for my Old titles. i feel like im in fuckin danger #too not worth it to continue me releasing games in this engine. #gamedev

[northern-passage]

I see you are working on Chapter 2 pat 1, but will the second part of chapter 1 if we don't help Merry be out? or have you decided that that path no longer fits the story and cancelled it. Sorry if the tone comes out weird, I just want to know as you have stated quite a lot of time that you are working on chapter 2

honestly i'm not sure when i'll get to that part of ch2; right now my plan is to go right into ch3 once i finish the blackwater route.

i don't intend to scrap it, but i know i do not want to be stuck on ch2 anymore and i think doubling back to do the highfell route would ruin my momentum. i'm already unfortunately writing at a very slow pace, and i worry it will completely demoralize me to double back.

once i do finish the next update i'll probably block out that choice in ch1 with a WIP note so people don't get stuck while playing the demo and locked out of progressing.

#one day i will finish this chapter. lol #but yeah no intention on scrapping it that branch is one of the most significant butterfly effects in the game #it's basically like a completely separate version & this continues through the rest of the game #so it might be something i go back in and add retroactively #after finishing the other route more or completely #ask #anonymous

[bookwyrminspiration]

reading gideon the ninth:

reading harrow the ninth:

#htn #tlt #everything has gone from like. 50 to 1000 #like sure there were things going on before and I had to pay attention #but now I have to pay ATTENTION #like okay. okay harrow is 'remembering' that there was a sleeper or whatever #and there was a 2 hander with it. under it. okay. okay so what does that mean #and this 'body' #which for some reason she's continuously hallucinating? #and the whole thing with the letters and ianthe #i'm trying to parse through everything but I don't know how much I can figure out and how much is explained #by context and events I simply haven't been told about yet #so it would be fruitless to surmise because I quite literally can't know yet. missing pieces #based on current knowledge my assumption is that for some reason harrow has retroactively altered her memories #for an unknown purpose #because ianthe's 'who? oh the cavalier' at the beginning leads me to believe she recalls gideon just fine. and that gideon was in fact real #though there's something going on with her #well yeah no shit she's disappeared straight up #not like disappeared like gone missing but she's straight up been erased from the story like she doesn't exist #except for these tiny mentions #of a two hander #which also brings to question the importance of a reader in a story #but that's a whole other can of worms #the point is I have to pay so much more attention now #i love it I love being confused (genuinely) #the first book was fine but it wasn't like this #anyway. harrows the fucked up scrunkle cat of the group and I'm endlessly amused by it

[yesokayiknow]

cannot believe that in 2007 the eighth doctor adventures writers just decided to put toxic yuri in their show. they did that for me

#not me going insane over 2 minor recurring villains #but literally what the fuck is going on with the headhunter and karen #what if an amoral assassin and a normal office worker decided to become partners on a whim & now they time travel and commit crimes together #like what????? #the headhunter could not give less of a shit about other people and doesn't think karen is useful at all and yet just keeps her around #and karen's like yeah she hates my guts and also she makes me kill people. it's a laugh though can't complain #and i'm just meant to be normal about that?????? huh??????? #also the way they both just flirt with lucie every time they see her is so funny #karen's like hey babe!!!! how are you!!!! do you want to join us!!!! while holding a knife to lucie's neck shdjshs #while the headhunter's like ah lucie miller the thorn in my side [saves her life] this means nothing [saves her life] you disgust me [saves- #doctor who #big finish #i've finished s3!!!! whoop!!!! #my thoughts are why does lucie miller keep getting turned evil and can it keep happening bc it's hot. who said that #my only issue with this format is that it's very adventure based. which yeah it's called the 8th doctor adventures #but i wish there was more breathing room for lucie. the doctor keeps being all sad (fair his life is awful) but lucie's going Through It #and never gets a chance to really process anything #also the retroactive continuity errors make me laugh #'i'm 900 years old' no the fuck you're not! you still have the time war yet buddy! #i like to think they're just signs of 8's swiss cheese memory #i hope there's books set in this era. i'm sure nobody will be able to tell me bc they gave up 20 tags ago agdkhsjshsjs

[flashfamdotcom]

okay but when the fuck did bart try to exclude cassie from young justice???? like ever?? they literally voted on her being leader ? and have a good relationship ??? like where is this drama coming from because it sure isn’t the comics that predate it

#i’m glad it’s making bart competent but?!!!! #it’s like the author took the very thing they are critiquing (fanon/toxic fans) #and using that to actually inspire how the characters acted retroactively #IDK THE PLOT IS FINE BUT THE CHARACTERIZATION AND CONTINUITY IS ASS #young justice #young justice dark crisis #bart allen #tim drake #conner kent #cassie sandsmark

[generic-sonic-fan]

Honestly, with the canon inclusion of they/them pronouns in Sonic Frontiers (several of The Ancients use them in cutscenes) and the they/them use in the officially licensed twitter takeovers to deliberately imply that Eggman is bi/pan, I genuinely would not be surprised if Agent Stone shows up in a mainstream game at some point in all of his fruity, queer-coded glory.

#sonic #sonic movie #agent stone #ivo robotnik #sonic twitter takeover #sonic frontiers #and I for one welcome the day this arrives #I already love the fandom's effort to retroactively add Stone to every continuity #I can't wait for Sega to do it. I really hope Sega does it

[comixandco]

Tears of the Kingdom isn’t the first time we’ve heard the phrase The Imprisoning War in Zelda lore

It’s also the term used in the Downfall Timeline as a precursor to LttP when Ganon was unleashed from the Sacred Realm and the King and the Sages rushed to fight the Demon King and re-seal the Sacred Realm, with no mention of a hero

Could TotK Imprisoning War and the LttP Imprisoning War be one and the same, with specific details being lost to time by the beginning of the game?

#totk spoilers #i’m not going to read any tags or comments on this post until i’ve completed the game #i’ve only found about three or four memories so far and i know this is a completely far-fetched conspiracy but it’s fun to think and theori #totk #and the zelda lore/continuity is a hot mess anyway. #it could be entirely possible that the Imprisoning War took place during the Era of Time directly after the heroes death #(at a young age i stand by the theory that link was sealed by the master sword after it was sent back in time with the knowledge ganondorf #was going to kill him right there in the temple of time after following him to get access to the sacred realm) #and we never got to see the king of hyrule for all we know he could have been a goatman #and icr if the queen was ever mentioned to be canonically dead. and it’s not the first time that nintendo has whitewashed a zelda though #this time it would be retroactively. or it could be set as lore states a long while after the era of time. #it’s never stated who tried to access the scared realm just that people wanted to claim the power there for their own. it could have been a #new ganondorf. and if the kingdom had been completely ruined by the ill-fated fight between the hero and Ganon and the following battle #between himself and the sages; it’s entirely possible that afterwards the zonai could have descended from the clouds to help re-build the #kingdom; and in a fit of morale-boosting refer to it as a founding of a new nation #or maybe not every war has to have a different name and the zelda lore makes no sense #that’s the more likely one imo lol