#OoT ganondorf at the time WAS the ‘ganondorf with character development and an actual motivation’ | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

rawliverandgoronspice · 9 months

Note

Okay, I just wanna say that Ganondorf in ToTK, despite not having Wind Waker’s pathos, is easily the best Ganondorf we’ve had (which is surprising considering some parts of the story). He’s terrifying whenever he shows his mug, he’s active and damn near omnipresent though Puppet Zelda and the Phantom Ganons/gloom spawns, and he’s easily the most unhinged take on the character we’ve ever seen. As for his motives, it’s as simple as turning hyrule into a chaotic hellish landscape where the only rule is that the strong thrive and the weak die, which isn’t really unique, but the landscape and monsters in the game kinda cements how bad that would be.

I get we were kinda expecting another Wind Waker situation, but what we got is great too because Ganondorf was great in Ocarina of Time and he too wasnt anything beyond pure near omnipresent evil.

I mean... I think it's as good as any a time to bring up a really important distinction to the way I critique stuff in general, which is that there's a part of interacting with art that is kind of is... true at a fundamental level? That fundamental level being the emotional response. Nobody can ever be more right or wrong for their emotional response, it's kind of non-debatable.

So I'm really glad TotK Ganondorf did it for you! I genuinely am. I actually loved some things about his incarnation; the musical motifs and the way they are integrated within the story (!!! so good), the concept of Fake Zelda, the actual final fight which I 100% agree is the best one we ever had (still love the TP one, but, the horseback part is a little eeeh and the swordfight could have been harder), his various designs, Gloom Hand and Phantom Ganon which are probably among my favorite parts of the game...

But yeah, I suppose I'm the kind of annoying player who needs a solid thematic framework to relax and accept the scenario proposed (the kind that is driven by mimicry and meaning, which is, I have to admit, especially hard and ungrateful to design for --and so is, often, completely ignored *sobs*). So I would have been completely fine with a Ganondorf without pathos, but one that did fit better within its own environment and countered the themes of the game and developed an ideological philosophy that you could solidly oppose, and not just treating him as an excuse to usher the gameplay forward (I mean, he did betray the gerudos which stranded him while you get to receive everyone's help, but he is not alone in practice! Every monster stands by his side! He may even have a more devoted and stronger support system than you depending on how you play the game). But that goes beyond Ganondorf: I had much trouble seeing past the self-referential and actually enjoy what Tears of the Kingdom had to offer in terms of emotional texture.

But yeah. Could not get behind the writing and a lot of choices in terms of... I don't know, the timing of his maniacal laughter, for example? I feel like a good maniacal laughter needs to be earned, and there's so many times where it just felt completely cheap to me? Even OoT Ganondorf, who had his share of cheap laughter moments, kind of had them work by the simple fact that they were here to directly mock us, the player, and our actions (if I remember well he only has two in the entire game: one after getting his way within the Sacred Realm, and one right before the final battle). We're not going over the extraordinary WW laughter, which is everything to me, but I also really enjoyed the kind-of-unhinged-but-sober take on TP Ganondorf, where he laughs only once and because he knows that he is close to losing probably. I think that was a great characterization, and I'm kind of sad they got rid of it to replace it with [insert maniacal laughter here] sort of approach that isn't specific to the character built over the years (except for the moment where he turns into a dragon, which was the one I liked the most --but it was greatly overused in my opinion).

So I really think his absence of specificy and the fact that his plans are pretty much nonsensical when you examine them for more than a minute, and the fact that he was all over the place and actually sparring with you and building direct grief with you in previous titles, where here I really wasn't sold on why I was supposed to invest myself in the situation besides a vague sense of duty and "that's what the game expects of me" really... didn't sell me the intimidation or the presence. There are a couple of iconic moments that I genuinely loved to see (the whole fist in the throat was GREAT, and perhaaaaps the "come at me" tho even THAT is self-referential grumble grumble sorry to be like this I'm genuinely sorry, the thought wouldn't even have crossed my mind if everything else about him wasn't a strange patchwork, but, it does pile up), but, I needed the framework to stand on its own to genuinely love him in this game.

But I'm really glad if he scratched the itch for you! Most people seem to agree too, which is great. I just... I mean, I am obviously invested in this not becoming the standard of quality. I think we could keep a lot of what worked here and add a scoop of better writing and thematic consistency, and I'd be on board way more already.

#asks #totk #totk critical #totk spoilers #when will my brain return from the imprisoning war...#ganondorf #oot #wind waker #ww #tp #thanks for the ask!#yeah I'm sorry I was never going to agree haha #but it's fine! I completely can see why people would just ride the epic ride and not be bothered by the rest #I'm just too annoying to interact with media (including the media I work on this has literally Caused Problems)

24 notes · View notes

betterbemeta · 7 years

Note

So I'm playing OoT for the first time in my adult life (first time ever properly; as a kid the well and the shadow temple scared the shit out of me and my father had to beat them for me) and (cont'd)

(cont'd) I just got to the Deku tree explaining the plot and like. So far, all we know is that the Deku tree says he's evil and from the desert and his sorceries are evil too. Like that's not a lot to go on, the Deku tree (which by the way cannot move, so they have to be relying on hearsay) is not making a great case

OH NO I FORGOT ABOUT THE GODDAMN LONG WINDED OWL

Wait so out of all the OoT characters, do you have - and I do despise the term, but it fits - Is there a waifu? Because to me it was always between Malon and Saria, but I was a kid and those both make sense as a kid because they're both kids, for the most part

Just got to Zelda. So so far as evidence we have against Ganondorf: A tree heard he's bad news and thinks his sorcery is evil (echoes of the witch trials much?) and the child princess thinks he might be bad news. Even still, ignoring the nationalist lens of the plot, he could plausibly be a perfectly normal guy who just has bad social skills

You’ve basically encountered the biggest reason why my interpretation of Ganondorf ‘gives him a chance.’ Not so much that he is ‘actually good’ but that he might be a person with a perspective we should hear. The few times he brags to us about how he’ll rule the world or challenges us to go retrieve zelda are very flat for someone who supposedly was motivated to do all of this shit. I would say that we’re basically lucky that Zelda guessed Ganondorf’s intentions correctly, but the story is not complex enough to include that kind of possibility. The story is about giving Link directions to what he has to do next, not about any character’s real motivation and the obstacles in their way.

The entire first part of this game operates like it’s a game of play-pretend and he’s not even real-- just a bogeyman. It sounds like the whole story could just be made up by two kids on a playground in a make-believe session. Then the ‘proof’ of Ganondorf’s misdeeds is a ruined future without much evidence for his motivation in each area. It’s the most beloved game of all time but it’s got storytelling that basically is an excuse for its game progression/objective trees with each important character you meet being more like a mascot for a certain area, game mechanic-- or else to be redeemed for a medallion or something.

On the “did you have a girl character you had a ‘thing’ for/paired Link with/paired yourself with/’waifu’ concept” front-- not really? When I played this game as a kid I really was clueless in regards to any kind of romantic or sexual attraction. I didn’t really develop or emotionally mature in that way until I was in the back half of adolescence. I may have shipped ZelGan before that (?) but I was much more attracted to the significance that they had for each other (of course, outside of the context where zelda is a /child/ in Ocarina of Time) than having many ‘waifu’ feelings. If anything I wanted to self-insert and meet all the characters myself rather than having a ‘favorite.’

#long post #legend of zelda #ocarina of time #my shipping was really weird before age 17 or so on my part #eldritch-cthulhu

7 notes · View notes

repeatsfate · 7 years

Note

A, K, R!!

vidya games!

K – game you’re most looking forward to?

at the moment it’s super mario odyssey and pokemon ultra sun and moon! and, uh… my inner 12 year old is rearing her ugly head to force me to admit i’m also pretty hyped for sonic forces, oops. lOOK IT LOOKS FUN, OKAY…

i’m looking forward to fe musou too but also i’m pretty neutral on it– everything they’ve revealed has been super incredible so far and i’m looking forward to maining my birb, but i’m more interested in the confirmed fe16 and i’m looking forward to hearing more about that when the time comes.

R – most underrated game?

hmmmm… while xenoblade chronicles itself would certainly fit the bill despite shulk being a giant meme now, i think i’ll take it a step further and go on to say xenoblade chronicles x deserves a bit more love than it got–

despite the very real flaws with the game and some aspects of the story, a thing that draws me to it aside from the ‘if you can see it, you can go to it’ MASSIVE open world and setting on a foreign planet was just how human its supporting cast and even minor npcs are. the game does an excellent job of portraying raw humanity in both ends of the spectrum– where there are heroes, there are people even in man’s most desperate hour that took that second chance as an excuse to be horrible, horrible people. the encounter of alien life goes as swimmingly as you expect, with the remaining fragments of humanity split on how to deal with these new beings in their midst. some choose to try and form alliances and bonds, the others shun and fear the outsiders– many quests actually revolve around the racism in what’s supposed to be a safe haven for the aliens pledging themselves to humanity’s side. the conflict taking up the last leg of the game is one born of human grief and the sting of loss– and when you really get into the motivations behind it it’s so easy to understand why the person did what they did but also acknowledge yeah no you did bad buddy you gotta pay for it now. i just???? it’s so good????

the planet and creatures that make up the game’s setting are imaginative and beautiful, i honestly love just booting it up and wandering. sometimes it’s scary as all heck because OH GOD GIANT MONSTER OUT OF NOWHERE but also… that just adds to the immersion and feeling like you’re a tiny fish in a big, big sea… and when you’re strong enough to stand up to those monsters it’s the most satisfying thing in the world.

the musical direction is honestly up to taste- i personally adore xcx’s soundtrack, but those not a huge fan of hiroyuki sawano’s works might find it lacking. here’s a personal favourite!

point is, it’s super fun, i want to do an araceli run sometime if i can ever be arsed to go back on my wii u or it gets a switch port, and a verse would be fun to play around with… i’m not a huge jrpg person, but i really really like xcx. also, fans of matthew mercer– he’s in this one, too! he plays lao huang, one of my all time favourite characters tbh

point is it is flawed, yes, but it’s also a very solid jrpg that i had fun sinking hours into and i’d totally do so again

A – favourite game of all time?

my top fave game of all time? easy! it’s the legend of zelda: wind waker!

it wins in both nostalgia points and a critical eye as i’ve gotten older– as a little kid, it was the first game i ever actually beat all by myself! the gamecube was the first home console i ever got to own– for a while i lived with my granny, who wasn’t very big on gaming if that makes sense? and then after moving back in with my mom she got me one for christmas and a friend lent me wind waker after i tried playing it at his house and repeatedly got stuck in the forsaken fortress. the excitement of finally making it past that and seeing this big, bright, beautiful world and story unfold before me has stuck with me to this day?? idk how to explain it i just. wind waker was an important game in my childhood, and i’ve played through it a loooooot– mostly i’ve noticed it was during times of stress or particular loneliness. everyone has that one game that’s been there™ for them during times of duress, and wind waker has always been mine.

okay i’m read more-ing the rest of this because i… went on for a WHILE. which is also why i answered it last oops. tl;dr there are many reasons why i love this game and it’s still my fave even now that i’m nearly 23.

as an adult, i’ve found that from a technical standpoint the game holds up really well, too– even without the hd remake on the wii u wind waker is still a very beautiful, stylistic game; a major benefit to having taken the art in a more cartoony direction is that it prevents the game from aging too much; if you were to look at the vanilla gamecube edition now, it still holds up amazingly! (meanwhile, i find that while twilight princess is still lovely, the more realistic art direction tends to date it a little. i could look at the original and just know the era it was made in, whereas if i never saw wind waker before, i would question it.)

the textures are rather blurry, sure, but that was a product of the time– hypatia on tumblr actually produced a mod with hd textures for roms of the gamecube version– check out these comparasion shots of the then-work in progress mod versus the original textures… and then here’s a few polished shots of the mod with a few extra effects dolphin/ishiiruka can provide. in short, the original wind waker is a very, very beautiful game and age has done very little to tarnish that even with the remake’s updated graphics.

but obviously graphics don’t make or break a game, though proper presentation is important– wind waker’s story also resonates with me deeply in various aspects. as an older sister, the initial quest to set out and rescue your younger sibling in danger caught my attention and held it fast; they do a very good job of making you feel attached to aryll, and the scene where she is kidnapped always tugs at my heartstrings every time i see it. watching this young boy who lived the world’s most quiet little life on a tiny island suddenly get swept up into this grand, big adventure to rescue someone dear to him and becoming an actual hero – despite having no relation to oot link whatsoever! – is the quintessential coming of age story that most people can relate to, and watching that change as the game plays out is always really sweet???

it was nice watching link’s development through his little actions: the backing away from helmaroc king when he first storms the fortress and then confident staring it down the second time and then giving it what for– aside from ganondorf himself that’s my favourite boss in the game if only because of those moments of development. link’s not just some kid from outset in over his head anymore– he’s a hero who overcame the trials of the goddesses himself in the name of protecting his baby sister, and he will not fail again. and then, after he could easily just throw in the towel and take his sister home because he accomplished what he set out to do, link goes on and sees it through to the end anyways because restoring order to the world is the right thing to do– there’s no legacy of knights looming over his head like several of his other incarnations. there’s no grand kingdom, there are only desolate little islands. there’s a princess, but… he barely knows her. hell, she didn’t even know she was a princess until that moment.

the story also touches on themes of death and the ends of eras… but also ends on a note of hope and new beginnings– clinging to the past only leads to ruin, and we must create opportunities for ourselves and the world to grow. hyrule is actually completely washed away by the end, and ganondorf goes with it– unless we assume breath of the wild is in the adult timeline, that’s it. he’s gone FOREVER in the subsequent games, with bellum and malledeus taking his place as the main villain. the kingdom link and tetra found is called new hyrule, but that’s all they share in significance– it’s their own land, just like the king said. that final scene of wind waker with the king always got to me– that message of hope is so poignant and powerful, i just. i don’t know how to put it into words, but it’s a scene i love dearly.

then there’s the music and cast of characters, and even quests and gameplay? i know the sailing could get tedious but i always liked it; it was relaxing to me just watching the virtual waves and listening to that beautiful score?? the characters are all bright and unique and fun– they’ve got their own little lives and you can impact them in so many different ways and things definitely change once you do?? like starting windfall vs windfall after you do a few sidequests or even turn on the ferris wheel and lighthouse again feel so different? it’s a neat little detail i’ve always found!!

…i really need to stop rambling about wind waker now i actually dozed off a bit typing this post, oops.

#long post;#◈▏▐ ❛ ɪ ᴄᴀɴ'ᴛ sᴀᴛɪsғʏ ʏᴏᴜ / ʙᴇᴄᴀᴜsᴇ ʏᴏᴜ ᴡᴀɴᴛ ᴛʜᴇ ᴛʀᴜᴛʜ. ❜ ― ( latrocinari )#◈▏▐ ❛ ᴄʜɪɪ ɪs sᴘᴇᴀᴋɪɴɢ. ❜ ― ( ooc )#◈▏▐ ❛ ᴡᴇ'ʀᴇ ɴᴏᴛ ᴅᴏɴᴇ ʏᴇᴛ. ❜ ― ( meme )

1 note · View note