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#Lilith Apologist
nukanuggz · 1 year
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Before the Fall.
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they-call-me-haiku · 6 months
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i find it funny how people praise the owl house for breaking the trend of redeeming the villain when the show instead took the laziest path with dealing with their villain. i mean, i get it. not all villains need to be redeemed and sometimes, it's just fine to kill them off or defeat them. no character is irredeemable, but sometimes the point is that people refuse to change.
but what they did with belos was just lazy. he didn't need to be redeemed, sure, but his ending was way too anti-climactic. he was such a complex character to just be labelled as Pure Evil™ and killed off at the end. he didn't need to be redeemed, but he at least deserved to be acknowledged as the three-dimensional complex character that he is. he wasn't just a disney-esque villain who did everything for power and had no depth to his personality. he was a symbol of religious trauma and how it affects people. he was a horrible person but also a sympathetic one, because i can only imagine how harmful growing up in the puritan era would have been.
like i said before, the show being cancelled is not an excuse. i was so excited to see all the religious and spiritual themes in belos's past, and all the theories that fans were coming up with. hell, some fans did a better job of representing belos than the show ever did. i just feel like it was a whole bag of lost potential. belos could have been one of the most insanely complex and well-written villains but the creators of the owl house wants to impress its fans, so they pull a "haha we're not like other shows because we can't sympathize with the villain!" newsflash: you don't need to redeem the villain in order to portray them as sympathetic. azula from avatar and simon from infinity train are good examples of sympathetic villains/antagonists who don't get redeemed.
it's even more ridiculous considering how rushed and badly written lilith's arc was, even though she cursed her sister, tried to kill a literal child, and almost got her sister turned to stone. you'd think if the show despises redemptions so much, they wouldn't give lilith a lazy and rushed redemption arc like that, only to render her useless for the rest of the show.
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thunderon · 1 year
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lilith lost shannon AND mary, literally went to hell and back, had to deal with being a demon alone (on top of some category 5 mommy issues). so ya know what? imma give lilith a pass for her s2 crimes. and her look in this scene has nothing to do with my decision at all
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gunthermunch · 11 months
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I just noticed after reading the first post of munch part 3. Did garry really eat lilith's bouquet,, hence why she walked down the aisle without one?
yes that's exactly what happened. gunther noticed the bouquet was nowhere to be seen so after 15 minutes of searching garry burped a petal
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bluestockingbaby · 10 months
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lilith sternin didn’t ever do anything super evil, she was just autistic and evil-coded and it was funny. She was also a behaviorist, which makes her more competent than frasier and niles (freudian and jungian).
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quillandink333 · 13 hours
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WHO WANTS TO BE THE LUCIFER TO MY EMILY??? :D
I’m looking for someone (or multiple someones) to roleplay with bc my head is full of ideas and I can’t possibly write them as fast as I’m coming up with them
Please check out my #applewings tag for more info on my ship and my takes on it 💕
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royalvelvette · 2 months
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Like I had a dream of Season 2 last night, and weirdly it seemed exactly like what Season 2 might actually be like in terms of reveals. Like it turned out Alastor was actually a fraud, he didn’t kill all those overlords when he first got to Hell, but rather lied and said he did, and began attaining some power over the years with that rep, never a lot but enough to beat out smaller names, that being why he was so dependent on smaller deals like those he had Rosie keep an eye out for. He wasn’t pacing himself but desperately trying to live up to the myth of the Radio Demon. And it turned out Husk had been more powerful than Alastor when he acquired his soul, and the day he did was just as stressful for Alastor as it was for Husk. Then Vox tried to have him join the Vees, Alastor turned him down since he didn’t want to truth of his power being much lower than thought being found out, they got in a fight, and Alastor was legitimately hurt but managed to hide it and leave before Vox realised, just as he did with Adam. Alastor then encountered the real force responsible for those overlords going missing: Eve, the first woman. Basically in the world of ‘Hazbin’, before Heaven and Hell, there was simply Good and Evil, literal personifications, concepts given awareness. Good was the first to gain mass, becoming God, creating the angels and then Earth, Adam, Lilith, Eve, while Evil was left a simple force, until Lilith formed the apple of free will and gave it to Eve, infecting her with Evil, and so she became its embodiment, God’s counterpart in evil. Who could be seen in the opening storybook in the first episode, Go(o)d a closed eye amongst clouds, Evil a red eye(s) and smile amongst darkness, I checked once I woke up to ensure that shot was real. So basically all descendants of hers, humanity, would have both good and evil within them: the reason Adam was in Heaven was that in spite of being a jerk, he never had Evil as a concept within him. So what neither Alastor or Eve would have known was that because of this, he was among the few that could ever kill her (Evil), and now that Niffty took him out of the picture, the only ones left who could do so are Lilith and Charlie, the only ones of human descent not to be infected with Evil on some level (angels not having the right stuff to make it work). Anyway my dream had it that Alastor and Lilith hadn’t really met, but once Alastor made his deal with Eve, and she got herself a representative, Lilith felt it, and immediately fled to Heaven. And we would find this out since in Season 2, overlords started to go missing again as they once did before, only this time Alastor couldn’t really claim credit. My dream ended before it was clear who had killed them, whether it was Eve trying to find a new rep (the process having dissolved the souls of most whose wills were not powerful enough to escape her, before she had found Alastor, who would have spent the seven years he was gone attempting to escape her mass, regain corporeality to act on Eve’s behalf), or whether it was Lilith trying to figure out which overlord was Eve’s rep and wipe them out, but it did feature Vox be killed later on in the season, and Valentino and Velvette had a beautiful mournful ballad in response to this, like with her being the source of all Evil in this world I could have seen Val apologists in real life saying all he did wasn’t his fault because of her, what her influence did, which wouldn’t be great, but the scene my mind came up with was (great). So anyway Alastor’s purpose would have been to prevent redemption within Hell from being possible, since it would ruin Eve. It seemed surprisingly plausible to canon as we know it: I was thoroughly impressed with my subconscious mind on waking up.
What I'm getting from this ask (given that readability on long asks is. rough)
Me 🤝 You Good and Evil should be treated as characters in their own rights
Ask reformatted + a proper response under the cut
(Ask in quotes, my response indented)
(Addendum after I finished responding: I don't disagree with you, my interpretation is just different, but I think yours is cool on its own merits! I just like. thinking abt Hazbin and this ask gave me a lot of fodder to think about my interpretation vs yours and was handy for comparison)
"Like I had a dream of Season 2 last night, and weirdly it seemed exactly like what Season 2 might actually be like in terms of reveals. Like it turned out Alastor was actually a fraud, he didn’t kill all those overlords when he first got to Hell, but rather lied and said he did, and began attaining some power over the years with that rep, never a lot but enough to beat out smaller names, that being why he was so dependent on smaller deals like those he had Rosie keep an eye out for."
I don't necessarily think Al is a fraud, per se; I just think he's not as strong without Evil supplementing his powers with the staff. Like, I think - he had some power. I firmly believe that your actions in life translates to your base power level as a sinner/winner; and that the length of time passed since your death also adds to that power. He was a decently powerful sinner at death (serial killer); not Overlord level by any means, but pretty close to the top of sinners in general. I think he grew that power by picking off sinners on his level and, like you say, making more minor deals (or soul deals with weaker sinners, where the alternative would be he keeps killing you over and over and over in new and inventive ways). I do think he killed the Overlords, I just think he did that after he had made his deal with Evil for more power, instead of solely with his own.
"He wasn’t pacing himself but desperately trying to live up to the myth of the Radio Demon. And it turned out Husk had been more powerful than Alastor when he acquired his soul, and the day he did was just as stressful for Alastor as it was for Husk. Then Vox tried to have him join the Vees, Alastor turned him down since he didn’t want to truth of his power being much lower than thought being found out, they got in a fight, and Alastor was legitimately hurt but managed to hide it and leave before Vox realised, just as he did with Adam."
Oh, you and I both agree on Alastor talking a bigger game than what he could play. I think, even before he was powerful enough to back his actions, he was mouthing off/mocking Overlords who, at the time, were in an entirely different weight class. He has a terrible habit of doing this, imo - with Lucifer in 'Dad Beat Dad and Adam in 'Finale'; plus, depending on your interpretation, even Charlie (I'm specifically referring to the first advertisement for the hotel - I think I've discussed it in tags b4, but it reads to me as Alastor seeing how far he can push before Charlie snaps). We agree, again, on Husk being more powerful than Alastor when the gamble happened! God, I have a lot of thoughts about Husk as an Overlord; and the gamble, in particular. Husk, I feel, is... mostly honest; even as a gambling Overlord. I don't think Husk rigged it in his favour, and I don't think Alastor would have cheated (just due to possible consequences if he got caught - and if anyone was gonna catch him cheating at gambling, it was going to be Husk) Husk most likely would have bet big, possibly to scare Alastor - Alastor had less power, so something that wasn't 'all in' for Husk would be all in for Al; one loss on Al's side at the beginning of the gamble would put Alastor's soul into Husk's hands. Ehhhhhh, Adam... definitely realized Alastor was injured. He's so fucking smug about it, the asshole.
"Alastor then encountered the real force responsible for those overlords going missing: Eve, the first woman."
I don't have much to say here, just because of where my interpretation differs from yours.
"Basically in the world of ‘Hazbin’, before Heaven and Hell, there was simply Good and Evil, literal personifications, concepts given awareness. Good was the first to gain mass, becoming God, creating the angels and then Earth, Adam, Lilith, Eve, while Evil was left a simple force, until Lilith formed the apple of free will and gave it to Eve, infecting her with Evil, and so she became its embodiment, God’s counterpart in evil. Who could be seen in the opening storybook in the first episode, Go(o)d a closed eye amongst clouds, Evil a red eye(s) and smile amongst darkness, I checked once I woke up to ensure that shot was real."
Yes, thank you! Good and Evil are represented as physical beings! It's one of my favourite bits of the opening narration because it has so many implications for the world of Hazbin Hotel. Good & Evil are fundamental forces; I think they can't interact with the physical world w/o a vector - for Good, the angels & Heaven; for Evil, the Sins (sans Lucifer) & Hell. Good, because the angels created the first humans, had a way to interact with Earth first, through Adam and Lilith. Once Lucifer and Lilith gave Eve the fruit of knowledge, she became Evil's way to interact with Earth. All descendants of Adam and Eve (Good and Evil) therefore have the capability of both Good and Evil, due to being vectors.
" So basically all descendants of hers, humanity, would have both good and evil within them: the reason Adam was in Heaven was that in spite of being a jerk, he never had Evil as a concept within him."
I think Adam does have a concept of Evil in him - but I think him being created from Earth's dust by the angels kept him from being affected as strongly as Eve by the fruit. Eve was made from his rib; her connection to Good as a force was more dilute, if that makes sense? tbh I think Adam got into Heaven because he was the first man. I think if Lilith had died, instead of being banished to Hell, she would go to Heaven for the same reason. The two of them are as close to divine/angelic as a human can be; therefore they belong to Heaven in a way other humans... don't.
"So what neither Alastor or Eve would have known was that because of this, he was among the few that could ever kill her (Evil), and now that Niffty took him out of the picture, the only ones left who could do so are Lilith and Charlie, the only ones of human descent not to be infected with Evil on some level (angels not having the right stuff to make it work)."
I think, human-wise, you're correct - only Adam & Lilith could kill Eve (as Evil's vector). Charlie is... an iffy case, for me - yes, she's descended from one of the only humans untouched by Evil and a fallen angel; but she was born into Evil's home. I think, if anything, her nature would be closer to Eve's pre-fruit - she has connection to Good, but it's much more diluted than Lilith's ever is/was. Charlie could kill Eve (as Evil's vector) anywhere that isn't Hell, basically - Evil can't have homefield advantage.
"Anyway my dream had it that Alastor and Lilith hadn’t really met, but once Alastor made his deal with Eve, and she got herself a representative, Lilith felt it, and immediately fled to Heaven. And we would find this out since in Season 2, overlords started to go missing again as they once did before, only this time Alastor couldn’t really claim credit. My dream ended before it was clear who had killed them, whether it was Eve trying to find a new rep (the process having dissolved the souls of most whose wills were not powerful enough to escape her, before she had found Alastor, who would have spent the seven years he was gone attempting to escape her mass, regain corporeality to act on Eve’s behalf)"
I really like the idea of vectors of Good & Evil being able to sense each other's creation... Also Evil accidentally killing potential vectors. I think Good would have the same problem, honestly - Good and Evil are fundamental forces of this universe; they aren't meant for mortal ken. The OG trio of humans being exceptions to that rule.
"or whether it was Lilith trying to figure out which overlord was Eve’s rep and wipe them out, but it did feature Vox be killed later on in the season, and Valentino and Velvette had a beautiful mournful ballad in response to this, like with her being the source of all Evil in this world I could have seen Val apologists in real life saying all he did wasn’t his fault because of her, what her influence did, which wouldn’t be great, but the scene my mind came up with was (great)."
The concept of "the greater good" strikes again! Love me some morally grey characters who do horrific things for 'good reasons', it's so fucking delicious. Also, anon. You, uh. Are aware that Val is one of my favourite characters, right? And that I'm writing a whole AU where he grows and changes for the better, yes? Like... I am very much what most of the fandom would consider an 'apologist', if my experiences in... several other fandoms that I will not be naming are anything to go by.
"So anyway Alastor’s purpose would have been to prevent redemption within Hell from being possible, since it would ruin Eve. It seemed surprisingly plausible to canon as we know it: I was thoroughly impressed with my subconscious mind on waking up."
Yeah, I definitely think Alastor's purpose has to do with the concept of redemption - whether that be, as you say, preventing it entirely; or as I said in the Alastor & Lilith breakdown, being to only 'redeem' on a superficial level, thereby allowing Evil into Heaven. Also you should be impressed! It's a really good interpretation of canon, honestly, especially for a subconscious mind. Like, hands down, I can see this being viable in the canon of the show.
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Hello!! I am extremely new to demonolatry as I have very recently discovered it and I would like to know if you have any resources for beginners to read/watch that are helpful. Don’t worry about it if you don’t or if you simply don’t feel like it, I don’t mind!! Ty and have a nice day!!!!
Hey there! Terribly sorry for answering this so late. Xx So I've only been into Daemonolatry for about a year now, though I have learnt a lot thus far and I'd be more than happy to share some really important pointers to aid you in walking this path. ^.^
⭒☆·━━━━━━━•( 🌑 )•━━━━━━━·☆⭒
So first and foremost before I get into the main blogpost, I really cannot stress this enough...
Please educate yourself on closed practices and steer clear of cultural appropriation in your personal practises. There are a group of people in the Daemonolatry community who appropriate the heck out of Jewish daemons, especially Lilith. Judaism is a closed practise and therefore it's only respectful to not incorporate Judaism into your personal practises. Appropriating Judaism is actually a form of anti-Semitism, so please be mindful and respectful of these things! 🖤
I'm ashamed to admit this but I actually used to think it was completely fine to appropriate Jewish daemons last year, thanks to subreddits like r/DemonlatryPractices who would constantly try to push propaganda about Lilith being a "Mesopotamian Pagan Goddess" and other excuses for appropriating her. That same subreddit decided to attack me when I merely mentioned (on a completely different subreddit, mind you) that I disagreed with them appropriating Lilith, and in turn I got witch-hunted so that's great lmao. 🤡
Please avoid that subreddit at all costs, it's an absolute cesspit of cultural appropriation and passive anti-Semitism, and honestly they exhibit cult-like behaviour if you do so much as simply disagree with the appropriation of Jewish daemons. It's pretty disturbing... But yeah anyways sorry for rambling lol.
I'd also recommend avoiding people and organisations such as S. Connolly, V.K. Jehannum, Satan & Suns/Sons, BlackWitchCoven, The BecomeALivingGod Forum, The Satanic Temple, Joy Of Satan Ministries, The Order Of Nine Angles, scarletarosa (a user that literally exists here on Tumblr... yikes), etc. They engage in Jewish appropriation, and some of them even have ties to Nazism, racism, and other forms of bigotry too.
Some other Jewish daemons/spirits that you should avoid appropriating alongside Lilith are; Naamah, Agrat Bat Mahalath, Eisheth Zenunim, Samael, Abyzou, and the Grigori / Watcher Angels.
There are many other closed practices too, but if you'd like to do further research I can leave that up to you. ^.^
Okay sorry about that huge ramble lmao, just thought I would get that out of the way before getting into the main post because I think it's an important point to make and I don't want you to fall down a cultural appropriation apologist pipeline like I did at the beginning of my practise lol. Xx
Anyways, let's talk about The Infernal Divine!
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+: GIF Credit :+
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So we'll start with some really basic stuff. What exactly are daemons?
It's not commonly known outside of Daemonolatry that daemons themselves actually predate Christianity. The term 'demon' (alternatively spelled 'daemon') comes from the word 'daimon' which originates way back in Greek mythology. Daimons were a type of tutelary deity as well as guiding spirit whose divine nature was that of both mortals and deities. They were also sometimes regarded as bringers of knowledge, wisdom, and destiny. In this sense, they could be considered deities in their own right.
Contrary to popular belief, daemons are not evil and never were to begin with. It was only until the coming of Christianity that daemons as well as other gods were vilified and ostracised due to the cultish, radical, monotheistic mindset a lot of Christian extremists held back in the day. Lucifer himself was a "demonized" Roman god also known as Phosphorus, associated with light and the planet Venus. From that description alone, I don't really get evil vibes lol.
In my opinion, our world cannot simply be split up into just black or white, and daemons are no exception. Daemons aren't evil, but they aren't completely love and light either; They're neutral. Much like humans as well as the universe itself, the Infernal Divine are various shades of grey, and all daemons are unique and differ in personality.
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So with all this in mind, what are some good resources that don't endorse and/or engage in appropriation of closed practices?
The YouTube channels ESOTERICA and ReligionForBreakfast have great information on the history of various religions and practises!
~ Book Recommendations ~
Livre des Esperitz
Dictionnaire Infernal
Pseudomonarchia Daemonum
Pandemonium: A Discordant Concordance Of Diverse Spirit Catalogues
I personally am working towards being a daemonolatry resource myself, but I haven't been able to post much lately due to my mental health issues. I also took an active break last year, as it was pointed out by a friend of mine that my belief of thinking it was fine to appropriate closed practises was obviously problematic, and so I took time off from posting in order to educate myself and delete any problematic blog posts I had made endorsing that in the past.
But nonetheless, I hope that what I was able to provide in this post was helpful! I wish you well on your spiritual path. 🖤
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❀ ~ Many Blessings ~ ❀
-Korv
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lovegiroke · 2 months
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Like I had a dream of Season 2 last night, and weirdly it seemed exactly like what Season 2 might actually be like in terms of reveals. Like it turned out Alastor was actually a fraud, he didn’t kill all those overlords when he first got to Hell, but rather lied and said he did, and began attaining some power over the years with that rep, never a lot but enough to beat out smaller names, that being why he was so dependent on smaller deals like those he had Rosie keep an eye out for. He wasn’t pacing himself but desperately trying to live up to the myth of the Radio Demon. And it turned out Husk had been more powerful than Alastor when he acquired his soul, and the day he did was just as stressful for Alastor as it was for Husk. Then Vox tried to have him join the Vees, Alastor turned him down since he didn’t want to truth of his power being much lower than thought being found out, they got in a fight, and Alastor was legitimately hurt but managed to hide it and leave before Vox realised, just as he did with Adam. Alastor then encountered the real force responsible for those overlords going missing: Eve, the first woman. Basically in the world of ‘Hazbin’, before Heaven and Hell, there was simply Good and Evil, literal personifications, concepts given awareness. Good was the first to gain mass, becoming God, creating the angels and then Earth, Adam, Lilith, Eve, while Evil was left a simple force, until Lilith formed the apple of free will and gave it to Eve, infecting her with Evil, and so she became its embodiment, God’s counterpart in evil. Who could be seen in the opening storybook in the first episode, Go(o)d a closed eye amongst clouds, Evil a red eye(s) and smile amongst darkness, I checked once I woke up to ensure that shot was real. So basically all descendants of hers, humanity, would have both good and evil within them: the reason Adam was in Heaven was that in spite of being a jerk, he never had Evil as a concept within him. So what neither Alastor or Eve would have known was that because of this, he was among the few that could ever kill her (Evil), and now that Niffty took him out of the picture, the only ones left who could do so are Lilith and Charlie, the only ones of human descent not to be infected with Evil on some level (angels not having the right stuff to make it work). Anyway my dream had it that Alastor and Lilith hadn’t really met, but once Alastor made his deal with Eve, and she got herself a representative, Lilith felt it, and immediately fled to Heaven. And we would find this out since in Season 2, overlords started to go missing again as they once did before, only this time Alastor couldn’t really claim credit. My dream ended before it was clear who had killed them, whether it was Eve trying to find a new rep (the process having dissolved the souls of most whose wills were not powerful enough to escape her, before she had found Alastor, who would have spent the seven years he was gone attempting to escape her mass, regain corporeality to act on Eve’s behalf), or whether it was Lilith trying to figure out which overlord was Eve’s rep and wipe them out, but it did feature Vox be killed later on in the season, and Valentino and Velvette had a beautiful mournful ballad in response to this, like with her being the source of all Evil in this world I could have seen Val apologists in real life saying all he did wasn’t his fault because of her, what her influence did, which wouldn’t be great, but the scene my mind came up with was (great). So anyway Alastor’s purpose would have been to prevent redemption within Hell from being possible, since it would ruin Eve. It seemed surprisingly plausible to canon as we know it: I was thoroughly impressed with my subconscious mind on waking up.
interesting dream and theory, I would make sense and would be a shocker for others
I say it’s cool and interesting
👀
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captaindanvers89 · 9 months
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I want @lucy-westenra-apologist to write S3 of Warrior Nun because she’ll maximize Ava’s horniness for Beatrice which will include having a scratched up back that the halo refuses to heal.
Just imagine the new Pope wants to see the power of the halo and Ava shows it to him but with those claw marks on her skin.
Now magine, Beatrice, Suzanne, Yasmine, Camila and Lilith bearing witness to all that.
And also imagine Rowan Atkinson playing the new Pope with Johnny English’s idiocy. It would be hilarious and he’d definitely let Ava and Beatrice get away with a lot of havoc
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gunthermunch · 2 years
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aiiii here’s more vatore lore from the werewolves pack! read at your own risk (but it is interesting though…. because i did not miss hell to be involved) reddit. com/r/Sims4/comments/ve5lsa/i_dont_think_ill_ever_recover_from_this_lore_drop/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
i cant believe my lore is accurate im projectile sharting
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nunalastor · 2 months
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Like I had a dream of Season 2 last night, and weirdly it seemed exactly like what Season 2 might actually be like in terms of reveals. Like it turned out Alastor was actually a fraud, he didn’t kill all those overlords when he first got to Hell, but rather lied and said he did, and began attaining some power over the years with that rep, never a lot but enough to beat out smaller names, that being why he was so dependent on smaller deals like those he had Rosie keep an eye out for. He wasn’t pacing himself but desperately trying to live up to the myth of the Radio Demon. And it turned out Husk had been more powerful than Alastor when he acquired his soul, and the day he did was just as stressful for Alastor as it was for Husk. Then Vox tried to have him join the Vees, Alastor turned him down since he didn’t want to truth of his power being much lower than thought being found out, they got in a fight, and Alastor was legitimately hurt but managed to hide it and leave before Vox realised, just as he did with Adam. Alastor then encountered the real force responsible for those overlords going missing: Eve, the first woman. Basically in the world of ‘Hazbin’, before Heaven and Hell, there was simply Good and Evil, literal personifications, concepts given awareness. Good was the first to gain mass, becoming God, creating the angels and then Earth, Adam, Lilith, Eve, while Evil was left a simple force, until Lilith formed the apple of free will and gave it to Eve, infecting her with Evil, and so she became its embodiment, God’s counterpart in evil. Who could be seen in the opening storybook in the first episode, Go(o)d a closed eye amongst clouds, Evil a red eye(s) and smile amongst darkness, I checked once I woke up to ensure that shot was real. So basically all descendants of hers, humanity, would have both good and evil within them: the reason Adam was in Heaven was that in spite of being a jerk, he never had Evil as a concept within him. So what neither Alastor or Eve would have known was that because of this, he was among the few that could ever kill her (Evil), and now that Niffty took him out of the picture, the only ones left who could do so are Lilith and Charlie, the only ones of human descent not to be infected with Evil on some level (angels not having the right stuff to make it work). Anyway my dream had it that Alastor and Lilith hadn’t really met, but once Alastor made his deal with Eve, and she got herself a representative, Lilith felt it, and immediately fled to Heaven. And we would find this out since in Season 2, overlords started to go missing again as they once did before, only this time Alastor couldn’t really claim credit. My dream ended before it was clear who had killed them, whether it was Eve trying to find a new rep (the process having dissolved the souls of most whose wills were not powerful enough to escape her, before she had found Alastor, who would have spent the seven years he was gone attempting to escape her mass, regain corporeality to act on Eve’s behalf), or whether it was Lilith trying to figure out which overlord was Eve’s rep and wipe them out, but it did feature Vox be killed later on in the season, and Valentino and Velvette had a beautiful mournful ballad in response to this, like with her being the source of all Evil in this world I could have seen Val apologists in real life saying all he did wasn’t his fault because of her, what her influence did, which wouldn’t be great, but the scene my mind came up with was (great). So anyway Alastor’s purpose would have been to prevent redemption within Hell from being possible, since it would ruin Eve. It seemed surprisingly plausible to canon as we know it: I was thoroughly impressed with my subconscious mind on waking up.
👀
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Like I had a dream of Season 2 last night, and weirdly it seemed exactly like what Season 2 might actually be like in terms of reveals. Like it turned out Alastor was actually a fraud, he didn’t kill all those overlords when he first got to Hell, but rather lied and said he did, and began attaining some power over the years with that rep, never a lot but enough to beat out smaller names, that being why he was so dependent on smaller deals like those he had Rosie keep an eye out for. He wasn’t pacing himself but desperately trying to live up to the myth of the Radio Demon. And it turned out Husk had been more powerful than Alastor when he acquired his soul, and the day he did was just as stressful for Alastor as it was for Husk. Then Vox tried to have him join the Vees, Alastor turned him down since he didn’t want to truth of his power being much lower than thought being found out, they got in a fight, and Alastor was legitimately hurt but managed to hide it and leave before Vox realised, just as he did with Adam. Alastor then encountered the real force responsible for those overlords going missing: Eve, the first woman. Basically in the world of ‘Hazbin’, before Heaven and Hell, there was simply Good and Evil, literal personifications, concepts given awareness. Good was the first to gain mass, becoming God, creating the angels and then Earth, Adam, Lilith, Eve, while Evil was left a simple force, until Lilith formed the apple of free will and gave it to Eve, infecting her with Evil, and so she became its embodiment, God’s counterpart in evil. Who could be seen in the opening storybook in the first episode, Go(o)d a closed eye amongst clouds, Evil a red eye(s) and smile amongst darkness, I checked once I woke up to ensure that shot was real. So basically all descendants of hers, humanity, would have both good and evil within them: the reason Adam was in Heaven was that in spite of being a jerk, he never had Evil as a concept within him. So what neither Alastor or Eve would have known was that because of this, he was among the few that could ever kill her (Evil), and now that Niffty took him out of the picture, the only ones left who could do so are Lilith and Charlie, the only ones of human descent not to be infected with Evil on some level (angels not having the right stuff to make it work). Anyway my dream had it that Alastor and Lilith hadn’t really met, but once Alastor made his deal with Eve, and she got herself a representative, Lilith felt it, and immediately fled to Heaven. And we would find this out since in Season 2, overlords started to go missing again as they once did before, only this time Alastor couldn’t really claim credit. My dream ended before it was clear who had killed them, whether it was Eve trying to find a new rep (the process having dissolved the souls of most whose wills were not powerful enough to escape her, before she had found Alastor, who would have spent the seven years he was gone attempting to escape her mass, regain corporeality to act on Eve’s behalf), or whether it was Lilith trying to figure out which overlord was Eve’s rep and wipe them out, but it did feature Vox be killed later on in the season, and Valentino and Velvette had a beautiful mournful ballad in response to this, like with her being the source of all Evil in this world I could have seen Val apologists in real life saying all he did wasn’t his fault because of her, what her influence did, which wouldn’t be great, but the scene my mind came up with was (great). So anyway Alastor’s purpose would have been to prevent redemption within Hell from being possible, since it would ruin Eve. It seemed surprisingly plausible to canon as we know it: I was thoroughly impressed with my subconscious mind on waking up.
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I would love to have a dream about Hazbin. How entertaining! It be like watching a terrible fanfic that been canonized despite the many plot holes. A great way to enjoy the Hazbin universe as we wait for season two. You are so lucky!
I did had a funny wacky dream last night. Usually mine are so dull but last night I dreamt I have to go back to high school for whatever reason. Which didn't seem terrible tbh as it would been.
But I remember going to the office in a panic between 1st and 2nd period, demanding a parking spot in the student parking before they were all given away. It made me miss my 2nd class.
then when I did up showing to one of my classes, the teacher was going on to the students how important this class is and yadda yadda. I remember I scoffed loudly saying "I never needed this. I already have a job...why am I here?" Then I woke up. Like that my most entertaining dream I had in a very long while.
However going on with your dream. The more I think about it, the more I believe Alastor active shadow is Roo. That Alastor shadow brought down the overlords and Alastor/Roo has them in a pocket dimension in a particular antique radio he owns and able to broadcast their screams live. So, It wasn't really Alastor that did the heavy work, but he was involved.
-side note I am curious if those overlords are able to break out now his mic broken. It would definitely be a twist, however unlikely to happen
I can see there may be scenarios or theories that he just took claim and why he turn down Vox.
"Lilith formed the apple of free will and gave it to Eve, infecting her with Evil, and so she became its embodiment"
I really dig the wording here. Its beautiful. Just there's an error in that dream in my opinion, as we already saw there was an "Evil" and clues of them making the tree, not Lilith. But everything still up to interpretation, my deductions is not true answers. just hypothetical theories.
"So basically all descendants of hers, humanity, would have both good and evil within them: the reason Adam was in Heaven was that in spite of being a jerk, he never had Evil as a concept within him"
I like this, I like this alot. In the bible, Adam did eat the apple too. But Hazbin universe is only loosely based on it. In the show, it didn't state he ate the apple too. So it was easy to assume he may have base on the original source (Bible). But that detail did seem to be purposely left out. In doing so, the way you worded that the descendents being born with both good and evil seem poetic. It gave Lucifer free will gift more weight.
"So what neither Alastor or Eve would have known was that because of this, he was among the few that could ever kill her (Evil), and now that Niffty took him out of the picture, the only ones left who could do so are Lilith and Charlie, the only ones of human descent not to be infected with Evil on some level (angels not having the right stuff to make it work)"
Oh, that would be fun. The only (free willed?) humans untouched by evil can defeat evil. Well, that put some pressure on being the chosen one on a few characters.
I have thought about why Lilith was considered a sinner. She really didn't sin. Only partake on peer pressuring Eve. I was working with an assumption with offscreen she ate it too because why would Lucifer be like....hey Adam new bride. Eat this it before offering free will to Lilith. But she seemed to already have free will as she refused Adam. So maybe the tree was made after that? Who knows. Its the small detail that throws me off each time but not willing to focus on it.
Anyway my dream had it that Alastor and Lilith hadn’t really met, but once Alastor made his deal with Eve, and she got herself a representative, Lilith felt it, and immediately fled to Heaven.
Could be! I think she might taken Charlie too if that's the case. But maybe Charlie being Hellborn she couldn't yet she can still visit?
I personally headcanon that Alastor at least is somewhat involved with Lilith disappearance. Or at least knowledge of it that he retaining the information. Which will destroy Charlies trust in him once she finds out he been aware what happened to her mom when she been sad and clueless about.
it did feature Vox be killed later on in the season, and Valentino and Velvette had a beautiful mournful ballad in response to this
Awe, man, Vox died? :( As unlikely as it it is, I think If he had to die, it has to save the fan (and Vox) favorite Alastor! Giving us a gut punch of feels out of nowhere. Then prove that Alastor did care about the Tv man after all.
So anyway Alastor’s purpose would have been to prevent redemption within Hell from being possible, since it would ruin Eve. It seemed surprisingly plausible to canon as we know it: I was thoroughly impressed with my subconscious mind on waking up.
I agree, it does seem to fit. I headcanon Alastor contract is to find a way to interflate Heaven. Alastor doesn't believe the redemption (Especially for himself) works but its his best shot on fulfilling his master will.
But man, I'm a little jealous I can't dream something fun like that. Thanks for sharing. I would have woken up and be like...I have a fanfic to write! then cringe at all the plotholes, and probably make more plot holes trying to cover the other ones up but failing miserably.
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solomiracle · 3 months
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I saw your post about levi encountering "himself" as an enemy/boss and I only can think about Levi loving some characters that look like his brothers.
Gathering a party that reminds him of his brothers but he does it without noticing. He will have a charismatic one who makes jokes all the time and is a fan favorite (Levi hates fan favorite character but he will always keep the joker around because he likes their jokes)
or maybe Levi will really like the serious and cold villain, but who did everything they did to protect their family (Levi is the number one Emet Selch (ff14) apologist and I'm going to die on this hill) (also sorry Lucifer, but your type It's used a lot in villains bye)
I can see him being "this villain is so boring, another villain who likes orders and is very strict. I hate people like them, who don't care for anyone besides themselves" and then bam! Here the villain backstory and Levi is just ugly crying for days and fighting with everyone in the forums and the funniest part is he doesn't do this because he is trist for the villain it's just hit some familiar thing inside him, he can't explain but he'll protect this tragic villain with all his force and determination
I also can see he saying "oh this old brother is so cool, I wish Mammon is like this" narrator voice: Mammon is, in fact, exactly like that
And not only Lucifer and Mammon, but all his brothers. I just can see the raid team "hey RurichanSupremacy666, why do you have this femboy in your party?" "Because he is the best in white magic!!" Or "stop calling them lazy, it's depression!" Or "I don't want to kill them! They're angry because they're lonely!!!"
I can see him searching for fan arts and fanfics with those characters but not because "oh I ship them with my oc" but more "I want to see them happy, I want to read a fix it where they're all happy together with their loved ones"
The best part? He does all of this for instinct, doesn't even realize what he is doing (maybe the mc point it out in the most hilarious way possible like "oh obviously this one is your favorite, it's Mammon" and Levi isole himself for the rest of the century, oh henry why do you betray him like this?)
ANON YOURE SO BEAUTIFUL AND WONDERFUL AND OH I LOVE THIS IDEA SO MUCH AAAAAAAAAA
and the difference in how levi treats his usual favs vs these characters!! say when he defends or expresses why he loves his usual favs, he gets very loud and rambly, to the point of being incoherent. but with his not-brother characters, levi's more calm and precise, happily explaining everything he loves about these characters, because, subconsciously, those traits are the same things he loves about his brothers.
levi likes this mage, for both her healing bonus and how she sees the true beauty in everyone. yeah, the warrior does consume a lot of materials, but his protectiveness over his bedridden little brother is so touching!!
ohhhhhh there's gotta be some characters that unknowingly remind him of lilith. ohhhhhh that's a tearful can of worms i'm not opening today.
but the last part with mc?? and how they're so sure of themselves? oh he's such a loser <3 levi's gonna spend the rest of the century realizing half of his favs are just his family members and he's gonna be so embarrassed about it, esp when he discovers his top favs are a bunch of not-mammons. suck it
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nornpai · 2 months
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Like I had a dream of Season 2 last night, and weirdly it seemed exactly like what Season 2 might actually be like in terms of reveals. Like it turned out Alastor was actually a fraud, he didn’t kill all those overlords when he first got to Hell, but rather lied and said he did, and began attaining some power over the years with that rep, never a lot but enough to beat out smaller names, that being why he was so dependent on smaller deals like those he had Rosie keep an eye out for. He wasn’t pacing himself but desperately trying to live up to the myth of the Radio Demon. And it turned out Husk had been more powerful than Alastor when he acquired his soul, and the day he did was just as stressful for Alastor as it was for Husk. Then Vox tried to have him join the Vees, Alastor turned him down since he didn’t want to truth of his power being much lower than thought being found out, they got in a fight, and Alastor was legitimately hurt but managed to hide it and leave before Vox realised, just as he did with Adam. Alastor then encountered the real force responsible for those overlords going missing: Eve, the first woman. Basically in the world of ‘Hazbin’, before Heaven and Hell, there was simply Good and Evil, literal personifications, concepts given awareness. Good was the first to gain mass, becoming God, creating the angels and then Earth, Adam, Lilith, Eve, while Evil was left a simple force, until Lilith formed the apple of free will and gave it to Eve, infecting her with Evil, and so she became its embodiment, God’s counterpart in evil. Who could be seen in the opening storybook in the first episode, Go(o)d a closed eye amongst clouds, Evil a red eye(s) and smile amongst darkness, I checked once I woke up to ensure that shot was real. So basically all descendants of hers, humanity, would have both good and evil within them: the reason Adam was in Heaven was that in spite of being a jerk, he never had Evil as a concept within him. So what neither Alastor or Eve would have known was that because of this, he was among the few that could ever kill her (Evil), and now that Niffty took him out of the picture, the only ones left who could do so are Lilith and Charlie, the only ones of human descent not to be infected with Evil on some level (angels not having the right stuff to make it work). Anyway my dream had it that Alastor and Lilith hadn’t really met, but once Alastor made his deal with Eve, and she got herself a representative, Lilith felt it, and immediately fled to Heaven. And we would find this out since in Season 2, overlords started to go missing again as they once did before, only this time Alastor couldn’t really claim credit. My dream ended before it was clear who had killed them, whether it was Eve trying to find a new rep (the process having dissolved the souls of most whose wills were not powerful enough to escape her, before she had found Alastor, who would have spent the seven years he was gone attempting to escape her mass, regain corporeality to act on Eve’s behalf), or whether it was Lilith trying to figure out which overlord was Eve’s rep and wipe them out, but it did feature Vox be killed later on in the season, and Valentino and Velvette had a beautiful mournful ballad in response to this, like with her being the source of all Evil in this world I could have seen Val apologists in real life saying all he did wasn’t his fault because of her, what her influence did, which wouldn’t be great, but the scene my mind came up with was (great). So anyway Alastor’s purpose would have been to prevent redemption within Hell from being possible, since it would ruin Eve. It seemed surprisingly plausible to canon as we know it: I was thoroughly impressed with my subconscious mind on waking up.
If Vox dies I will literally cry.
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quillandink333 · 8 days
Text
I’m agonisingly bored and unmedicated (adhd) and need smn to direct my thoughts at, anybody wanna talk about applewings with me? The whole writing thing isn’t rly working for me atm
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