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#I've been thinking about how they're kind of two sides of the same coins
ekko-idk · 1 month
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Laios: people are hard to understand... There's way too many social rules to follow, popular conversation topics, eye contact, etc. They also rarely say what they mean and often they say the opposite, so much so that misunderstandings happen regularly.. Monsters are predictable animals with a set of rules and precautions you can follow to either tame or defeat them. if you know what to do, they're very easy to deal with!
Kabru: monsters are wild creatures with jerky unpredictable movements.. Their attitude can change in a second and if you don't have an insane amount of knowledge about them they can be, and often are, very dangerous. Human cultures often have strict and easy to follow rules that depend on certain communication strategies that are somewhat agreed upon universally. People no matter of background also react the same to many things (smiling, frowning, pupil dilation, etc.). if you know what to do, they're very easy to deal with!
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kirain · 5 months
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oh God I hope, those ‘how dare you pick Gale?!’ anons, don’t annoy you too much or sour Astarion for you. Both are great romances and I’m glad Gale gets some love as well.
Admittedly, Astarion fans have kind of been souring his character for me, but I'm trying very hard not to let that happen. My friend and I were actually talking about this yesterday, funny enough. She's an Astarion fan, but she admits the hateful energy people have for Gale is pretty hypocritical, because everything people hate about him also blatantly applies to Astarion. The insecurity, the emotional outbursts, the trauma, the arrogance—they're literally two sides of the same coin, and liking them shouldn't be a competition.
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When I first met Astarion, we didn't really vibe, but I was content with his character ... until I started getting anons and comments on Tumblr, TikTok, Twitter, and YouTube from people bashing Gale; calling him an incel, possessive, selfish, etc., and all in comparison to Astarion, for some reason. It seems like every time I write a nice comment or analysis of Gale, I'm challenged by Astarion fans who berate me for liking Gale more. Or for romancing him at all. I've received the weirdest comments, from people saying Gale supposedly abused Mystra (even though he's the victim in an unfair power dynamic) to someone telling me his grooming "isn't a big deal" because he was probably in his late teens to early twenties the first time Mystra "slept" with him. 😕
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Someone even told me he's like an alcoholic who can't stop drinking, and as someone who grew up with an alcoholic father, that's both insulting and completely incorrect. You can't just walk away from an addiction after one conversation, the way Gale can. I know it's just a game and normally I enjoy a good debate, but some of the comments I've received are downright feral, to the point that I'm hit with ad hominems and accusations. I like Gale, therefore I must be a horrible person, stupid, an incel-lover, a glutton for abuse, etc.
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There are entire subreddits and YouTube videos dedicated to hating on Gale, as if he's the main villain of the game or something. And even more scary, some fans have taken their discourse to the actors directly. Apparently when Tim Downie was on Neil Newbon's podcast, people in the comments were calling him an incel and telling Neil not to give him a platform. Tim is just a nerdy British guy with a wife and kids, he probably doesn't even know what an "incel" is. Luckily the mods caught most of it and banned a lot of users, but the comments were getting spammed with Gale hate.
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But I'm trying not to take it out on Astarion, as I know it's not really fair for me to do so. I also know this is probably just a vocal minority of vicious fans that don't represent the community as a whole. Plus, I think Neil Newbon did an incredible job and he seems like a genuinely nice person. I don't want to hate his character, especially since I know Astarion can change. In fact, I just finished his personal quest and found his little "thank you for saving me" speech to be quite sweet and heartfelt. And thank you for your kindness. You're the first person who's told me you enjoy both characters and that you appreciate both of their romances, so that restores some of my faith. ❤
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dmbakura · 4 months
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Would you say AA has this sense of thinking he /needs/ to be like Cazador, because that's "what works" and what's "safe"? Like this is who he has to be, and nothing else is viable? That's how I interpreted AA's masking (especially during his sex scene, it seems very insincere and more like what he thinks he needs to be than what he wants) and I can't really make it work with Neil's statements honestly.
I also think he's very much capable of cruelty but the way AA acts is something else entirely to me because it's so goofily a Stereotypical Cartoon Villain Big Bad Sexy Vampire which doesn't really come across as honest in the way, let's say, Gortash's antics seem honest from what we know of the character. Maybe I'm misinterpreting what masking means, idk. I'm definitely not saying it's not honest that he wants to do all that power-hungry shit and that he's secretly a pure tortured soul because that's a lame ass reading that contradicts canon but everything about how he carries himself is so uncanny and all those underlying themes of being really fucking afraid and unable to face what happened/running away from it don't lead me to believe he's living an authentic life, more like he's trapped inside himself.
I don't really see how this contradicts anything Neil said. He never says AA is Astarion's most authentic self at all, or even that he's healthy and confident, only that he stops masking with theatrical deflections.
You also have to account for the supernatural element here too. In dnd lore, most true vampires basically succumb to personality rot and become paranoid and obsessive scheming freaks. I know the 'vampire ascendant' is a new thing and bg3 plays with the lore a bit more but considering this is alluded to by Astarion AND Cazador and heavily reflected in AAs behavior, I'm willing to believe that the vampire ascendant is literally just that but on steroids. Hence the cartoonish behavior lol
Astarion's a complex character. A lot of his arc is a question about how trauma can shape a person and what remains (if anything) after they've gone through something inconceivable, and if they can move past it and reclaim an identity for themself. I don't think it's a coincidence that his background is mostly vague and we don't actually know the kind of person he was before he was turned (unlike *those* fans, I also don't believe 'corrupt magistrate' means he was 'always destined to be evil' or some nonsense like that.) So much of his character is informed by the choices made in the game and how the experiences shape his worldview. He's by far the most dynamic character in the game and people want there to be a simple answer to his character (whether that be 'he's a poor uwu baby who did nothing wrong' or 'he's always been irredeemably evil and is incapable of change') when the reality is there just isn't one.
All this to say, same as what I've been saying from the beginning, both endings for him serve a purpose. They're two sides of the same coin for his character. They are both true to Astarion and his development and they're meant to contrast in ways that make you think deeper about him and his story. They absolutely cannot be taken in a vacuum and I am just so annoyed with people not engaging with the story on this level and wanting there to be simple moral platitudes to everything because they're uncomfortable with complexity.
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thefinalcinderella · 4 months
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Tsurune Book 3 Afterword
Full list of translations here
Time for my unsolicited book review!
Tsurune Book 3 is one of the books of all time.
I'm not trying to be funny, that is my true opinion about this book.
I've said before that it feels like the author was forced to write this book in a hurry, and after finishing it, I can only say that those feelings have only grown stronger. I think the author was going for an abstract and spiritual feeling but it didn't really work out. It only made the story hard to follow, and the tendency for the novel to jump from topic to topic seemingly at random didn't help. It's probably super obvious in the author's head, but that doesn't matter if the reader can't follow their thinking. I really do question what the editors are doing because I'm not sure if they're giving the author proper feedback.
The novel also suffers from trying to do a lot but not doing any of it satisfactorily. It introduced a lot of new characters and plot points but never really did anything with them?? The new first-years faded out of the story after the beginning and idek what's going on with Kuon. As for the new school Haneina...the author just gave them one """quirky""" trait each and called it a day. It kinda happened with Tsujimine too but it was more subtle with them, and I think the central relationship of Nikaidou and Fuwa was compelling and well-written. Asahina and Eddie, on the other hand, are just really weird?? I honestly don't understand what their narrative role is supposed to be??
This might be a controversial opinion but I feel like the anime tells a more coherent, polished version of the story. I was rewatching it the other day and I was kind of blown away by how the visual quality improved between the seasons. S1 was definitely not bad looking but S2 is just *chef's kiss*. Idk if there's going be an S3 but it will be interesting to see how (or if) they adapt book 3
Anyways i don't want to say that book 3 is kinda pointless since it did give us some reveals (perhaps unnecessarily) but on the other hand...i feel like book 2 had a nice ending for the series as a whole as well? idk. if there is going to be a book 4, i hope it will be all about Kazemai hunting down Masa-san's bio dad
Thanks for following along with me! I know I've been really slow with this so im glad people are still interested haha
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This happened when I was reading a certain foreign novel’s translated version. As I was reading through the point of view of a character whose first-person pronoun was “私” (watashi), I came across a surprising description. To my surprise, the character I thought was a woman suddenly started to shave their beard. Later, I learned that there was an unspoken rule that men used “watashi” written in kanji, and women used “watashi” written in katakana.
Minato’s personal pronoun is “ore” in hiragana. It encompasses the meaning of “undifferentiated,” someone of unknown gender who is neither male or female, although his physical body is that of a boy. Nanao’s pronoun is “ore” written in katakana, a person of unknown nationality who can’t be classified as either Japanese or foreign, a person who wavers between the two, a hybrid existence that crosses that line. Takigawa Masaki is also someone who hovers between “human” and “not human,” so his name is written as “Masa-san” (マサさん) in the text. Shuu is also a character who is in between.
I’m attracted to such “fluctuating” and “swaying” things. Things that can’t fixed or distinguished in form or state, as changeable as “water.” Kaleidoscopic freedom and loneliness are two sides of the same coin. People who fluctuate cannot stay in one place, and instability follows. Because they can’t be classified, they do not belong anywhere, nor can they be emphasized with. I wanted to somehow hold back those who can’t stop walking. I wrote this story because I wanted them by my side.
Changing the topic, I was on my way home from a domestic trip. After spending a relaxing time listening to the chirping of birds on an isolated island, I heard a large explosion sound when I got off at a certain station in Tokyo. The warning signal of a train entering the station continued to sound, and announcements reverberated from all over. I forgot to bring my earphones, so I was unable to plug my ears and ran all the way to the edge of the platform. Glowing neon lights reflected diffusely, and the words on billboards and other signs crowded in my field of vision like a herd of horses. I almost thought that I had time travelled back to wartime. We had become so accustomed to the flood of sound, light, and text that we don’t realize we’re on the verge of drowning.
Tsurune is the story of masters and disciples and bow friends with the theme of rebirth, and it began as the story of seven archers. The theme of Volume 3 is “Meigen, that is the sound of the dawn,” and I wrote about shari kenshou (seeing true nature through the shot).
I would like to express my sincere gratitude to everyone involved in the making of this book: Koyama Kyugu-sama, who I’ve interviewed, T-sama of the KA Esuma Bunko Editorial Department, Kyoto Animation-sama who was in charge of illustrations, the proofreaders, the novel’s official website, the printing company, and the distributors. The letters I’ve received are my treasures, and I have displayed them in my tokonoma alcove. I would like to thank my beloved kyudo teachers and bow friends, my precious friends, and my supportive family.
Last but not least, I would like to express my deepest gratitude to all the readers who have read this far.
I hope for the day when the beautiful tsurune of the archers will resound.
Ayano Kotoko
Spring 2022
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starlightsuncrow · 1 month
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Finally have a free momence, I was curious what your Starfall is generally about, and how it compares to your GW2 alt universe! And any character differences as well, since you mentioned a few different alts (sorry if you’ve explained this in a post before !)
- @magitechbatt
omg,,,, you want to know about Starfall? Buckle in!! It's gonna be long. I've never got the chance to explain so thank you!! Starfall is an original setting @cheddargoblin and I created, the story's premise is: "Long ago a star fell, and changed the world forever both physically and magically and even in it's current day societies across the world struggle to re-find their place in a world grown more wild and hostile around them."
Medieval-ish fantasy with themes of freedom, change, healing and bonds, a good story about found family and overcoming entirely different kinds of bias and classism.
Gw2 has some shared themes and the setting isn't too far off ! Starfall is darker,cruel though. One big difference tho is Starfall happens mainly in snowy regions! Now onto the characters!
I'll speak about my main two, since the rest are still a big WIP.
In Starfall Crow is an ex-mage hunter who escaped the Guild ( main place where hunters are trained and also big anti mage propaganda between all the things, even if they are mages themselves). In escaping he's constantly hunted, due to being an important figure and...a big weapon that was trained specifically for "purposes" by his mentor. The black arms are tattoos ! Cruel symbol of how many mages you captured/killed and so on. Has to learn to fight his own life of bias and brainwashing to live "outside". He's like a caged dog who finally tasted freedom and will fight for it to death if needed. Closed off with MANY issues, they haven't lost a small spark of naivety and hope though. Big part of the character is the revelation they're a fae ! No, they didn't know it. It's complicated. Hehe's also a "cursed" fae, courtesy of the mentor again. Describing the cursed fae as magical beings who have to survive on blood and magic, since they're made of magic. Without feeding they end being feral beasts who won't ever go back to being sane. They go through addiction and withdrawl usually. He's a fighter and adapts easily, someone give him a break please. He's the struggler but keeps going , a love for freedom keeps him going. Crow in Gw2 is a saltspray who fled from the Jade Wind, searching for a cure or something to help back home. After centuries of disguises he fell into the end of the Inquest and got basically " cursed". Vampirism about blood and magic, for a being like a lesser dragon it's...not fun i'd presume. Got saved by Dragora, lived and learned under Drago's wing and then joined the commander's gang in s2. Revealed their true identity much later during EoD<<< caused some drama. They're Starfall's Crow without the harsh environment they lived in, in gw2 he got a taste of it but not enough to compromise his whole life. Marked by it but doesn't let it control them. He's an exploration of who Crow would have been if he escaped sooner from the Guild.
So both keep that duality of self, same coin, just a little to the side in gw2. Neither of them are too different. Fun story about Cardamomo, he comes from gw2 actually! He's my commander and that's part of his core personality. Never make me think of jokes with characters and pairings because 90% of times they end up happening <<< Cromo happened this way. In Gw2 he's the sylvari commander, a naive and full of wonders sylvari who learnt fast war changes you. Forever.
Cute guy who sees the horrors and comes back angry, frustrated and not much hope and will to fight again, but that's all he knows how to do after all. That's why Gyala and part of Soto hit hard. They're tired, they don't know how to rest. Big trust issues? Or more about they can't let be seen weak and vulnereable. The important thing to know about Momo is that he wasn't Cardamomo at first. He starts as Caoimhe until the Departing. He dies, he comes back. He comes back different. I love the mirror theme so much he IS a mirror. A broken one. Caoimhe died, Cardamomo came back with less memories, some gone forever and a personality made to withstand the trauma just to fight Balthazar. Oops, Caoimhe took too much time to recover and now this commander has two pilots. They're the same guy still! Momo isn't a new different identity, he's more of...some aspects put together to give time to heal. Similar personalities to the point there's no much difference unless you know what to look for ( they have a slightly different behavior and manner of speech). It's like a fragment who learnt to be its own thing, while still following the main purpose of protector.
It's a toughie to describe I'll be honest, if I can finish that fanfic i'm writing maybe it helps understanding it (or i can simply ramble on another post <3) In Gw2 he's a dryad, beings born with a specific purpose ( in this case it's about balance). I'm still working on many details but he keeps the commmander "role" so to speak and absolutely gains the Caoimhe/Cardamomo duality again. Loss is part of his character in many ways too eheh. He's a bit more off putting and warms a bit slower than his gw2 alt though! Playing more on the fact this guy isn't human at all. I've been trying to keep both my ocs' cores for both settings with some modifications but more or less the alts end up being "what ifs" and explorations of a part of the main character that can't be explored easily in the main setting. They aren't as different as I make them sound probably.
Fun fact, dryads and fae are rivals, this didn't stop Cromo happening( one half didn't know, the other didn't care). The main alt i can explain is Dragonheart for Momo! Selkastra ( saltspray is just an appereance change and plays more on Crow being young but still... a dragon) Dragonheart is Momo's champion self? so to speak? That one transformation in EoD but what if we can access to it under circumstances and what if it follows the different aspects too? Otherwordly momo <3 Each aspect affects Momo differently and he acts as consequence too. Physically and mentally. If Aurene is the Prism Dragon, Cardamomo is the prism itself reflecting, each side something different. There's Fae Crow to explain too, but nothing too big changes apart from making him extremely ethereal and fey-like. Not to be mess with, fae are known to bend rules and twist them to their like. Even tho Starfall Fae are...a bit particular. I hope these are enough to answer your questions, which im so so happy u asked!! (it got so long he l p) I'm terrible at summaries but this made my whole day, thank you so much again !! <333
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thelockedasshole · 7 months
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Okay my brain is made of scrambled and the locked tomb is honestly too high a reading level for me to do a great analysis but also like
I see people talking a lot about Tamsyn writing about the horrors of love, all the ways it can be twisted and dysfunctional and unwholesome but also as a Nona the Ninth enjoyer especially I can't help but think...
isn't she writing about the wonders too? isn't she saying how beautiful and fucked up and simple and complicated and honest it is? how the unwholesomeness makes it more true and powerful? how the ways its twisted and it fails makes it so much more real? how the yearning and the loss and the "you can't take loved away" are all important parts of something that is good and bad and just is?
and not as "two sides of the same coin", either, in some weird ass mobius strip where they're all one and the same. fear is just a kind of arousal. horror is just a kind of wonder. love is just a kind of death.
idk man maybe that's my own bias because I've never really been able to separate those things either. pain is a type of ecstasy and the ecstasy of love is so much that it's painful and all the hard and messed up little bits don't make it less, they make it more, more love and more real and more true
just my messy thoughts on that
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genericpuff · 1 year
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have you watched pyrrhic_victoria's newest video of them critiquing lore olympus? they're currently being called out for invalidating persephone's sexual assault & doubling down on what they've said.
Ohhh boy, I have lol and it's pretty much what I was vague-posting about the last couple days `(*>﹏<*)′
TW: sexual assault, insinuations of victim-blaming, community drama, lil' bit of trauma dumping
So now that I feel sorta okayish talking about this, Pyrrhic & Victoria put out a new LO video recently with a take that wasn't so hot. I won't go into too many details but it was one that essentially attempted to invalidate the existence of SA in Lore Olympus. Which, let me just say, is a really bold but shit take to have because while we can criticize LO as much as we like, it should never, EVER be an excuse to invalidate what we all know was very obviously SA, whether or not P&V recognize it as such themselves.
It's been a bit conflicting for me because while I obviously disagree with their takes, they're in the ULO community and I interact with them on a regular basis. I've hosted them on my streams, I respect them as creators. But that whole schpeel... really didn't stick with me.
I feel like a lot of where this take (and the responses to it) is coming from is personal/subjective, but there's also a general argument between the ULO community and the main LO community when trying to discuss LO because often times, people will supplant their own experiences to defend shitty writing. A very good recent example is Demeter's character assassination - a lot of people defend the poor writing and mischaracterization as "well I had an abusive mom so this is good storytelling!" when it's like... that's neither here nor there. You can have experiences with shitty parents or SA (as I do!) but still separate those experiences from the media you're consuming and recognize when the media isn't being written well. I'm an SA victim myself and while I do NOT think Persephone's SA plot is being depicted well, especially when it comes to Persephone's internal headspace, that doesn't mean I'm justified in saying Persephone wasn't SA'd. That's a completely different line to cross and one that absolutely should not be crossed. Hence why I mentioned above that P&V seem to be conflating RS' shitty writing with the real life experiences of those reading it as their reasoning to criticize the writing itself, not much different from how we complain about the stans using their own experiences to defend shitty writing. It's two sides of the same coin - just because you've experienced the things that happen to the characters in a fictional piece of work doesn't mean that piece of work is actually well written; just because you're criticizing a piece of work for being poorly written doesn't mean you're allowed to invalidate the experiences of the people relating to that work.
All that said, from here on out, I won't be continuing to engage or affiliate with their content. They've explained to me in-depth how they feel about both the situation and the opinion itself and it still seems to just be something that we're gonna have to disagree on because they're failing to give RS even an ounce of credit for that scene. It doesn't matter how shit her writing is or how they think the SA "doesn't make sense" in the context of the story, we all know that scene was SA, even if it wasn't what Rachel originally intended to write, she chose to embrace it through the Eros/Persephone conversation and it's been SA ever since. It's not something that I'm going to debate here, ever. RS mishandling the subplot after the fact doesn't invalidate the nature of that scene whatsoever. And I say that fully as an SA victim myself, the "kind" of SA that often gets invalidated the way they tried to invalidate it - coercive, intimidated, pressured.
I won't blame P&V for being so aggressive with their takes, y'all know I'm pretty loud and outspoken myself. But they took it a step too far in their recent video and I'm not gonna entertain it any further. It's often said on their channel that they're "just two dummies with dumb opinions", but that doesn't mean their opinions don't have the power to hurt others or send toxic messages that are fully capable of being absorbed by and spread by their own audience. That's the responsibility one has to acknowledge when hosting any kind of platform with an audience of any size, and it's one that I take very seriously, both in what I consume and in what I create.
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I've definitely been getting that "maybe don't be such a snowflake" vibe off everything going on and I hate to see it. I genuinely want to see them learn and grow from this because I do care about them beyond just their Youtube rants, but so far it's not really looking like that's gonna be the case, at least not for a long while, best case scenario.
People fuck up. We're all human, and part of being human means making mistakes. But what defines our character is how we bounce back from those mistakes. How we hopefully learn and keep an open-mind to learn from others and strive to do better. I really hope they can take a bit to step back, actually listen to what people are saying, and do better. I don't want to see them encase themselves in the same kind of echo chamber they criticize Rachel for. But ultimately, I can't control what they do going forward, so I have to just focus on what I can control - and that's choosing not to engage with their content any further.
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sapphic-agent · 7 months
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Here my new ask. Its about Shiggy!
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I always will love the dream sequence and I do think it was better in the manga but is odd how Shig is saying "I forgive you Hana" and wake up to destroy everything and everyone.
I know people can feel more than one emotion. "I love Susan but I fear her" sure sure but Shig's only time ever saying those words of forgiviness ...should mean smth.
Yet...it doesn't.
Also...when in the dream sequel Shig kills his dad again...I dont see him happy about, he seems shocked and sad.
1) is Shig an unreliable narrator? To me, yes. But Hori wont explore this.
2) if afo was forcing those memories...for what reason? It was crucial for Shig to suffer and be mad forever? Does afo feed on hate? Bc I swear the amount of things Afo has done in canon towards Shig should have made Shig resent the fuck out of him
3) the ghost of his family try to save him(kotaro, who fandom sees as a monster while still cheering for Endy tries to do smth) and failed....what Izu can do here? Ge barely knows Shig.
4)Shig wake up serve cunt (that scene was cool. I give him that) and....as you said before is shallow. The dream sequence meant nothing, his family meant nothing to him. Actually his emotions meant nothing for the damn story.
5) afo made bold assumptions that Shig would still be his brainless pawn...and only works bc Hori says so. In true, Shig should have dessert him a long time ago (shig got shoot on the ua invasion. Shig got the hands of his parents and afo laughs)
It was such a cool sequence...it seems it would go somewhere but is hollow. Ita just a waste. Even more as he says he wont forgive anyone (while I get Izu saying "I wont forgive you" this line works way better for bk or aizawa. Feels strangely personal for a man Izu interacted 2 times only and shig canonically has Izu on his mind, knows he is quirkless and likes quirkless stuff never try to contact Izu)
1. Shigaraki is indeed an unreliable narrator! I forgot which user brought it up, but his narration and the actions taken by his younger self don't align. He says that he wanted to and reveled in killing his family, but the expression on his face through it all is broken. He doesn't look happy or gleeful, he looks horrified and desperate. Even with his awful father, he's shown reaching out for him and only changes when his father hits him. AFO's conditioning affected him in ways he doesn't understand, he's trapped by the undisputable (to him) fact that he's a villain who craves destruction
2. AFO is a master manipulator. He doesn't feed on hate, he feeds on how vulnerable and usable Shigaraki becomes when fueled by that hate. You'll notice he never scolds Shigaraki for his temper. He knows if Shigaraki stays petulant and full of anger, AFO can use it against him later. Shigaraki has started to realize that he's being manipulated, but it's overshadowed by the box AFO's forced him into
3. See, this is why we needed more interaction between Izuku and Shigaraki than we got. Other than the mall scene they barely interacted before the war. I've always said that Shigaraki was Izuku's parallel. They're two sides of the same coin. Izuku doesn't understand Shigaraki, he said so himself at the mall. You can't save someone you don't understand long-term. There should have been a scene- any kind of scene- where they're stuck together, can't attack one another, and forced to talk. Even if they can't (and shouldn't) come to an agreement, they still would have a better understanding of one another
4. Hori is too focused on making Shigaraki narrow minded and hellbent on destruction to give him any other emotion
5. Yeah... The lack of agency Hori forced on Shigaraki after just giving him agency wasn't the best. He isn't someone who's weak-willed. He's insanely stubborn and resilient
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agentravensong · 5 months
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something that struck me today while thinking about ragad (as i've been doing again recently): the way the players' ultimate fate parallels ros and guil's.
the players were tasked by hamlet to put on the murder of gonzago to get a reaction out of the king — something that the main player acknowledges in retrospect was "tactless, really". their performance so offended claudius that they had to flee and lost out on their payment. they did their job and were discarded (by the narrative), and, as such, are as good as dead.
to put it in simpler terms, they choose to fulfill hamlet's request at the expense of the king. they chose the side they thought would most benefit them. and if that's the game they were playing, they (the players) lost.
shortly before the players' return to the stage, ros and guil settled the matter of whose side *they're* on. the two of them chose to be loyal to claudius over hamlet. they don't know it yet, but they too have lost the game — in a much more drastic fashion.
r&g made the opposite choice of the players. and yet, here they all are, on the same boat. messengers facing down the barrel of a gun.
(if ros and guil had fessed up and warned hamlet, even if that had been enough to spur him to forgive them and try to get out this together... how long would they have had before the practical consequences of the king's vengeful wrath caught up with them? how long until hamlet decides they're more trouble than they're worth?)
it's a trap, being made to pick a side. when dealing with opposing higher powers, powers who view you as just a means to an end... there is no good choice.
...that's one way to read it, at least. as a matter of sides.
the other way is to say that the players and r&g both made the *same* choice: they were given orders, and they followed them, disregarding the impact it would have on the target.
and they made that choice for the same reason:
the players are desperate for patronage. r&g are desperate for, in varying amounts and ways between the two of them, direction/purpose/answers/favor with a higher power.
in other words: both the players and our pair of courtiers are desperate for an audience.
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in other other words: they're all seeking validation of their existence from someone(s) external to themselves. validation in the form of monetary compensation and/or social standing, but also just the sensation of being Seen and Acknowledged.
because they're characters. actors. performers.
and how does that kind of "person" get validation? by following orders. a script.
(in their quest for that validation, their best effort to be seen as full people, ros and guil trade away their humanity. they reduce hamlet to their level: a tool for their ends. they forget their place, and so he (and through him the narrative) must remind them of it.)
something something "they're two sides of the same coin — or, let us say, being as there are so many of us, the same side of two coins".
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fivie · 10 months
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hello! just wanted to say i so dearly love umw!!
i wanted to ask—how faithful do you think your umw versions of enj and r are to the book characters? how much do you consider your story to be original with canon inspiration, and how much do you think the characters you write are literally what hugo's characters would do if put in the positions you've put them in? is it both? neither?
I ask, i hope it's obvious, with the utmost respect—umw is the best fanfic i've ever read and literally the last time it updated and i got the notification, i threw my phone across the room i was so excited.
thanks so much!! I love the story!! i hope your summer has been going well!!
Hello! Ooh that's an interesting question 🤔
I don't think they're particularly close to their book selves? They're completely displaced from their original time period and context and Grantaire is now an ageless celestial being instead of just a regular sad drunk man 😂 I think (hope) that they retain certain core characteristics that would remain constant to them in any universe – e.g. Enjolras being an idealistic, big-picture, self-sacrificing kind of person, Grantaire lacking much personal sense of direction or belief but idolising Enjolras and putting all of his faith in him. But they also definitely have...fanon traits? I started writing UMW at the height of post-2012-movie Les Mis fandom, with all its fanon characterisations of Les Amis that are now widely disparaged, and I was definitely influenced by that. I think almost all the UMW characters started out with at least some of those extremely fanon traits, but the story has gone on so long that they've had a chance to evolve and grow along with me, which I think (hope) has rounded them out a bit 😂
Also, and very importantly – I think that, as a fanfic writer who wants a romantic element in my stories, it would be impossible to write Enjolras and Grantaire as completely canon-accurate and get the outcome I want. I'm struggling enough with their AU selves! I think it's central to their book selves that they can never truly find and understand each other until the moment of their deaths. They're two sides of the same coin, but that means they're always facing opposite directions 😂 I think that's why so many of us are so compelled by their relationship! If I think about it really rationally, I don't think there's really hope for a happy ending for their canon selves. Enjolras can never compromise on his beliefs to meet Grantaire halfway, or prioritise his personal wants and happiness over the fight for liberty. Grantaire can never get his shit together and stop self-sabotaging enough to earn Enjolras's respect on his own terms. And that's important, because in the book they are less characters and more symbols and they have a symbolic purpose to fulfil. But as fans, we obviously want to explore them more as human characters and imagine a different outcome for them, and their relationship is so compelling that we want to see it develop; we want to find ways that they could come to understand and appreciate each other and fall in love. But I think to make that happen, there always has to be a certain amount of compromise with their canon characterisation 😂 That's just my opinion though, others may disagree!
I hope that sort of answers your question?? Thank u for the kind message, I'm glad you're enjoying the story 😊💕
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eggsaladstain · 1 year
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I just love the way you write, so gonna pick your brain here: why do you think people are so drawn to Darklina? Is it the tragedy of it? The gothic aspect to it? The darkness (funnily enough) of it? Or is it just the chemistry between the actors? Thoughts?
hi anon, thanks for reading and thanks for the ask! i've been sitting on this for a bit because i don't really ship darklina and thus don't have many thoughts about them but then once i started thinking about them i couldn't stop so here we are.
i can't speak for anyone else but for me personally what i love about this pairing is the tension and symbolism and the epic two-halves-of-a-whole vibe they've got going on and there are also some interesting parallels between darklina and kanej, so despite not actively shipping it, i genuinely think it's one of the most interesting ships in the entire grishaverse and certainly the most complex and complicated relationship alina has.
i'll talk about both the books and the show because i think they each do a good job showing different aspects of their relationship, and i actually kind of think you need to take the books and show together to get the complete picture of this compelling if ultimately doomed ship.
please know, anon, that when i opened this ask, i had planned on a pretty short answer and then i ended up writing 2k words about this because yes, apparently i do have thoughts and yes, that is a threat.
let's dive in.
at its core, darklina is about the attraction and balance between opposites. he summons shadows, she summons light, they're two sides of the same coin, they're made for each other! but then we find out that the darkling is actually manipulating alina, that he's the one who created the fold, that he's her enemy, and instead of sinking the ship, it actually makes it even better because you get that added tension and forbidden attraction between good and evil, between the hero and villain.
in the books, their relationship goes from romantic to adversarial to the mutual understanding that they have a connection to each other that they will never have with anyone else. for all its faults (and there are many), the original trilogy does a fantastic job fleshing out alina's relationship with the darkling and showing the love, the animosity, and above all else, the undeniable pull between them. we really get a sense of alina's acute loneliness and desire to belong somewhere, not just before she discovers her powers, but even after she comes into her power and learns that despite her new tribe with the grisha, she's still different, she's still ultimately alone. it's no wonder then that she would be so drawn to the darkling, who understands her loneliness, who gives her the attention she craves, who looks at her like she is something special. even after she finds out the truth about him, she continues to reach for him through their tether because despite the manipulation and lies, he is still the only one who truly understands the weight that she carries, he is still the only one who truly sees and embraces the darkness within her. he's her mirror image, reflecting not only her capacity for good and her desire to save ravka, but also showing her her darkest desires and instincts.
their relationship doesn't have nearly as much nuance in the show, and i get it, they only had a limited number of episodes, but the decision to turn darklina into a one-sided obsession on the darkling's part in season 2 was a big misstep in my opinion. in the books, their relationship is built on a mutual longing between both of them and even when alina finally kills him, she still grieves for him, says his name, and sees him through his final moments so he's not alone at the end. i've written before how much i love the subversive ending of ruin and rising and i especially love the closure we get in the relationship between alina and the darkling. it's a pyrrhic victory, not a triumphant one, and the darkling's death is very much a loss for alina. she does not kill him because of vengeance or to save the world, she kills him as a mercy, to put an end to his relentless suffering. the final book also acknowledges, crucially, that while the evil is ultimately defeated, this evil was not some monster or demon but a flesh and blood man, a boy.
in the books, alina is in her late teens and while the darkling is centuries old, he looks to be only a few years older than her. i understand why they chose to age up the characters on the show and ben barnes is fantastic as the darkling, but the fact that they were visibly closer in age in the original trilogy means there was less of an overt power imbalance between them because while the darkling was still the leader of the second army, he was also a bit more approachable due to his appearance of youth. not only that, their relationship in the books has an innocence that it doesn't really have in the show because a 17 year old girl being friendly and flirting with a 20 year old boy is fundamentally different from a 25 year old woman pursuing a relationship with a 39 year old man.
a younger darkling is also SO much more tragic, especially since his entire character can be summed up in this absolute banger of a quote from ruin and rising: in this moment he was just a boy - brilliant, blessed with too much power, burdened by eternity. the tragedy of the darkling is that he was forced to bear the burden of his power and persecution when he was just a boy and he had to continue bearing that burden for centuries, and it's so much more tragic to see a life cut short at 20 vs 40 because of that innocence that we associate with youth, even if that youth is an illusion and even (and especially) if that innocence is a lie. the tragedy of the darkling is that he had so much power but at his core, he was just a lost, lonely boy, and it makes him a much better foil for alina because, had she not lost her power in the books, she may have gone down the same path and that quote could have just as easily applied to her.
now, having said all this, the show, for all it faults (and there are also many), does a much better job (more so in season 1) of humanizing the darkling. part of that is just due to the books being written in alina's POV, meaning we never really know how the darkling actually feels, so being able to see the darkling's actions and motivations through a more objective perspective in the show goes a long way in fleshing out his character. the other part is, of course, ben barnes and the way he highlighted the tragedy in the darkling's story and tried his best to elevate the character above a typical villain, despite the season 2 script doing him no favors. in the books, we only see the darkling through alina's lens so we don't ever truly know how he actually feels about her, but the show makes it very clear that the darkling's feelings for alina are real. maybe it starts out as manipulation, but the power imbalance between them very quickly turns in her favor as it becomes clear that he needs her, desperately, in a way that she doesn't really need him. alina may have felt lonely for 20-some years of her life, but for the darkling, it's been centuries. it's centuries of loss and persecution that have made him who he is, and it's no wonder then that he would be drawn to alina, a literal light in the darkness, and see her as his salvation.
as i mentioned earlier, the show makes their relationship much more one-sided with the darkling refusing to let alina go, even after she hurts him, even as she hates him. in their final confrontation after the fold, he knows she is there to kill him, but when his nichevo'ya has her by the throat, he tries frantically to stop it because in spite of everything he's done, all the atrocities he's committed, the one thing he will never do is kill her. he certainly doesn't deserve a pat on the back for this and his behavior towards her is objectively bad and creepy, but it also shows just how all-consuming his desperation is. after centuries of searching, he has finally found someone who is like him, and he cannot bring himself to give her up, no matter the cost to himself, no matter the cost to her. it's incredibly selfish, but it's also achingly human.
in the books, we don't really see this desperation until the end of ruin and rising when alina loses her power and the darkling realizes that he is now truly alone, that he has no longer has an equal, and alina herself realizes that his pain will be endless. in the show, we see this theme - his desire and his need for her - woven throughout his interactions with alina from the very beginning, culminating with her death at his hands, albeit under very different circumstances than the book.
this is why i say that the books and show complement each other when it comes to darklina - with the books, you see how alina was drawn to the darkling and how she genuinely cared for him in spite of everything, and in the show, you see how the darkling was drawn to alina and how desperate he was to save her from following in his footsteps.
there's even a set of complementary quotes that perfectly encapsulate why this ship is so compelling and why it's so doomed.
in ruin and rising, you have the darkling saying you might make me a better man and alina answering and you might make me a monster.
and in 2x08, you have the darkling saying let me be your monster. let me carry the hatred of this world. who will be there to save you? and alina answering, i will save myself.
the allure of darklina is that it's about finding the one person who makes you feel less alone, the one person who can save you and destroy you in equal measure, the one person who sees and accepts you as you are, even the worst parts of you.
the tragedy of darklina lies with the darkling, because he is driven by pain and loss and the desire to escape both of those things. this is a man who will never allow himself to love someone more than he fears the pain of losing them, and he only allows himself to love alina because he believes he will never lose her to the ravages of time, he only allows himself to love her because he thinks he will be safe from pain with her. now compare him to sankta neyar, another character who has also lived and lost for centuries. as i previously wrote about here, the darkling views love as a weakness while neyar views it as a strength, and it is because of this (and, you know, the atrocities) that he ultimately loses alina. and despite how much alina resists him, the darkling is unable to let her go, unable to stop himself from trying to save her, even when she makes it clear that she does not want or need him to do so. the tragedy of darklina is that this is the only way he knows how to love her.
now, let's look at kanej, which has more than a few similarities with darklina. much like the darkling and alina, kaz and inej also have twin traumas, they also understand each other in a way that no one else does, they have also seen and accepted the worst parts of each other. like calls to like applies to them just as much, and even the r&r quote fits them perfectly as inej does make kaz a better man and kaz does make inej a monster. in six of crows, kaz tells oomen, who stabbed inej, my wraith would counsel mercy but thanks to you, she’s not here to plead your case and in 2x08, we see kaz offering to buy out kesh and any other indentures after inej asked him to consider it in 1x01 (gifset here). and it's kaz who teaches inej to kill, who gives her the tools she needs to survive in the barrel, culminating in her vicious threat to pekka rollins at the end of crooked kingdom and her declaration that they destroy him in 2x03 when she finds out pekka killed kaz's brother.
kanej is such a great foil for darklina because where darklina said you might make me a better man and you might make me a monster, kanej said we will make each other better, and we will be monsters together. kaz and inej each put in the effort to overcome their respective traumas in order to be together and they each do violent, unsavory things in order to protect the other, and despite the fact that both crooked kingdom and 2x08 end with inej leaving, it's clear that the two of them will find their way back to each other in time.
alina doesn't end up making the darkling a better man, though on the show, she does become a monster, for mal by using merzost to bring him back, and for ravka, by using the shadow cut to kill the fjerdan spy. it's a really fitting evolution of her character on the show and the natural progression of her relationship with the darkling, that she would defeat him only to become him in the end.
as i said at the top of this, i don't actively ship darklina, but i am fascinated by the tension and complexity of their relationship and i love how the book canon and show canon build on each other to give us a complete picture of these two individuals who are so similar yet so different at the same time. they're parallel lines who will never cross. they're the sun and moon who can never share the same sky. they're the perfect tragedy.
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9haharharley1 · 5 months
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Having a dilemma because I would love to know 001 for Blackice but also 002 for Jack and Pitch individually 💦
Where do I even begin with this!!! Hold on to your hats!
001 | Blackice
When I started shipping it if I did:
Story time! So, back when I originally watched the movie in 2015 or 2016, I didn't think much of it. I thought it was cute, but I was battling heavy depression and dissociation, and so I didn't really think anything of it past that. Themes and characters meant nothing to me. Even the voices didn't stick, which is weird because I've been in love with Jude Law since I was wee. Fast forward to September 2022, I'm reading Apprentice89's entire pompep catalog, and, desperate for anything similar they might have written, I stumbled upon their only Blackice fic. Even though I remembered nothing from the movie, the summary was just interesting enough, and I love their writing so much that I had to read it. I read it, fell in love, had to go watch the movie again, and promptly watched it about ten more times that same day, and I've been obsessed ever since!
My thoughts:
They make me insane. I've always been a sucker for dark/light ship dynamics, Yami/Yugi (puzzleshipping) was my very first ship when I figured out what shipping was, so you can only imagine how I lost my mind when I found out Jack used to be a creature of light in the books! Black/White, Light/Dark, Black/Blue, two sides of the same coin, beings who complete each other if only they would let it happen! This stuff makes me feral. I was never gonna be normal about them when I finally figured it out, and I hate that I'm late to the party, but better late than never!
What makes me happy about them:
Where do I even begin with anything on this list?! They're just... ugh! They're perfect! They're comedy and tragedy and hope and despair and love all wrapped up in a messy box of internalized pain topped with a neat little bow of healing magic! They understand each other in a way that no one ever will! They have felt and experienced love and loss, have faced a lifetime, and then some of loneliness and heartache, only to have finally found each other when it all became too much, this other being who understands, who feels some semblance of the same bitter ache the other feels! Here is someone they can talk to; they can touch, they can exist together, and maybe, finally, be able to begin to heal together.
What makes me sad about them:
They're lonely. They are both so lonely, even Jack with his newfound place with the Guardians and among his believers- he will never be completely unalone among them. The Guardians will never understand the kind of ache and bitter loneliness he and Pitch have felt, Jack will never be able to explain that kind of torment to them. And now he has to worry about spreading belief in him when it seems only a handful of kids from the movie even know he exists. And Pitch has been alone for even longer. He's had nothing but shadows and the whispers of failures long past for centuries before Jack is even born. He'll forever be haunted by the things he's done, the lives he's ruined, and know that belief in him will only continue to fade with time. But when they're together, they're not alone. They understand each other in a way that the Guardians will never be able to. They can help one another, they can connect and heal, and maybe even tie themselves together enough that they can spread a shared belief in each other.
( I have no idea if any of this is even making sense, I've gone incoherent)
things done in fanfic that annoys me:
Pitch always seems to be too nice. He's too nice and too thoughtful, and Jack is sometimes too timid or even just too angry and aggressive. Jack being a little too confident can also be grating. I also don't like it when they're over-sharing their thoughts and feelings, and every little action needs to be picked apart and talked about, oh hey, here's what a healthy romantic relationship between these two should look like! It gets annoying to me.
things I look for in fanfic:
I read fics based on interesting enough summaries and worry about the tags later. I love it when there's a bit of conflict and drama, I love it when Pitch is possessive and needy of Jack's affection, I love when Jack doesn't realize how desperate he is for Pitch's attention and doesn't know how to reconcile his love when faced with the Guardians when they find out! I love when Pitch is not necessarily redeemed, but certainly not Good, and only willing to heel for Jack.
Who I'd be comfortable them ending up with, if not each other:
I love a good platonic relationship with Sandy for both of them. A begrudging friendship between Pitch and North makes me laugh. Gilly, you made that wonderful little doodle of them sharing a drink that just melts my heart! Jack and Katherine in the books also have a cute friendship, and that can stay platonic for me as well. I do like a little bit of JackRabbit, but I also prefer it as a cliche trope to make Pitch jealous cuz I crave a possessive Pitch. Basically, no, I don't ship them with anyone else.
My happily ever after for them:
Their happily ever after includes continuing to learn and grow together. Since they're immortal to some extent, they get to spend their days learning about each other, falling in love over and over again at some new quirk they never notice the other has, they get to heal as time goes on, they get to bicker and argue and kiss and makeup over and over while falling more and more in love until the heat death of the universe. Basically, they get to live their best married life forever.
who is the big spoon/little spoon:
Pitch is the big spoon usually. He tends to run hot, and Jack is just the perfect little ice pack to keep him cool in the dark of his caverns. Jack tends to sleep curled up - he's used to sleeping on tree branches or awnings, small tight places high up enough he won't be bothered, but also has had to learn to make himself small for so he won't fall. Pitch loves it, and since my Pitch doesn't sleep, he tends to use this time to me be creepy; touching and groping at Jack until his lover is squirming uncomfortably in his sleep.
what is their favorite non-sexual activity:
Honestly, they just like spending time together. They've both been alone for so long that idle conversation is enough for them as long as they're together, be it down in Pitch's cave or up in the world as Jack spreads winter. They're constantly touching - feet in laps, holding hands, hands brushing skin. They play games, they spar, and Jack often drags Pitch to the movies or a play or even the occasional concert. As long as they're together, they're happy.
002 | Jack
How I feel about this character:
I'm normal about him. I swear. Completely normal. No, his centuries of loneliness and isolation doesn't make my heart weep. What do you mean I'm crying over the resentment he so clearly harbors over the ignorance from his creator and the Guardians alike? No, I'm not sobbing over how he can relate to no one except the one person he's not supposed to feel kinship with! How dare you insinuate I'm tearing my hair out over his choosing to be kind in a world that has shunned him and being a good and decent person despite his pain and isolation when he would perhaps be justified if he had taken the devil's hand and unleashed a a second ice age upon the world!
All the people I ship romantically with this character:
Pitch. Obviously. Also Kozmotis. Obviously.
My non-romantic OTP for this character:
He and Sandy can be bros. As a treat. And I guess Katherine is a cute platonic friendship. I forget Twiner exists because I go off the movie mostly, so him to, I guess.
My unpopular opinion about this character:
Oh boy. So this kind of goes with what I said under the ship bit above, but I don't like it when he's too timid. Jack is not a timid person. He's insecure. Insecurity does not necessarily mean he's scared, but he's been alone for 300 years. He's interacted with very few people as far as we know (unless you go by the books, which I don't usually, but even then). He talks to himself, he talks to the Moon, he talks to Sandy , who doesn't talk back, and he's talked to Bunny, which has been historically antagonistic. His social skills come from studying the people around them, gauging what is right and wrong thru observation alone, but he's not entirely confident in himself. Which brings me to: I can't stand when he's overconfident. Once again, he's insecure. He's unsure of himself, of his place in the world, of his role with the Guardians. He's known no true loving friendship in 300 years, and suddenly regaining his memories is not gonna fix that kind of trauma. Can you imagine the mental break he'll suffer when he realizes his sister had to watch him die, knowing there was nothing she could do to help? That she had to go on with her life, thinking it was her fault her big brother drowned? I don't like when he's super happy-go-lucky, either, but also when he's this weird avenging spirit of hurting children, too? I've seen that, and it bothered me.
One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon:
What blackice fan doesn't wish for him to have reached out to Pitch at the end of the movie? I would have loved for him to be the one to chase after Pitch at the end, to have reached out his hand to the Boogieman the same way Pitch had in Antarctica, to offer him a place among friends. Maybe not as a Guardian because I firmly believe Pitch would hate that, but as equals and friends.
my OTP:
Blackice, of course
my cross over ship:
None that I take seriously, but I did use to really enjoy Hijack, and I still find it cute on occasion
a headcanon fact:
I know it's unpopular HC, but my own HC for Jack is that he's a virgin. As a human, he fooled around with a local friend, discovering together what these weird teenage hormones are all about, but they never got that far past frotting in the woods after dark. When he became a spirit, his internal and external temperatures were too cold for anyone short of winter fae to handle past embracing for a brief period of time, and Jack learned early on not to entirely trust the fae court, so he steered clear of them foe the most part. He figured if he didn't have the urges too much as a spirit anyway, then it wasn't a big deal. His body didn't miss it, why should he? Then Pitch came along, and suddenly, his sex drive is working overtime.
002 | Pitch
How I feel about this character:
I am SO normal about him. Please ignore my twitching eye. Tall, goth, creepy, handsome men with spooky shadow powers haven't all been my weakness since I was wee lass, stop looking at me like that. I'm not thinking at all about the broken legacy this man left behind, about how he was once a great hero, renowned and loved by all, how he loved his daughter above all things, only to lose her and what little he had in an endless war and become a shell of that great hero, how he lost himself to despair, became corrupted by the very shadows he vowed to destroy, proceeded to lay waste to his people, destroyed entire Constellations, and became the monster in the dark children fear. I'm not thinking at all about how this man became nothing more than a shadow himself, forced to prey on the fears of children who no longer believe in him in an ever changing world. I'm not frothing at the mouth that this same man found the only other person in existence who has felt even an inkling of his same loneliness, had pinned all his hopes for companionship on that being, only to be turned away, forced back into his dark and lonely hole, into the dark and away from a light he can never touch. What do you mean I'm clawing at the walls? I have no idea what you're talking about.
All the people I ship romantically with this character:
Jack Frost, and a bit of Nightlight thrown in for some flavor.
My non-romantic OTP for this character:
Sandy, of course. The idea that Pitch is the only one who can community clearly and fluently with Sandy makes me laugh every time and is one of my favorite HCs to come out of this fandom.
My unpopular opinion about this character:
Once again, it all comes back to characterization. Authors tend to make him too nice or too thoughtful. He's too neutral or too tame. I like my bad guys to be Bad Guys. Don't neuter him just so you can have a fluffy redemption thru sex. This man has had nothing to claim as his own for millenia. He's gonna be possessive and all kinds of red flags about it.
One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon:
I wish we got to see more of Pitch's power in the movie. I would have loved to see the spooky, shadowy shapeshifter from the concept art. I would have loved to see him be an actual nightmarish threat, with shadows and fearlings, sailing the skies on his Nightmare Galleon. I wish we could have gotten a hint of the terrifying Nightmare King we glimpse in the books and the fear his very presence strikes in those around him. It would have been an entirely different movie.
my OTP:
Blackice, duh
my cross over ship:
None
a headcanon fact:
Pitch spied on Jack over the course of the boy's 300 years. He sensed his fear when he died. He wanted to be there when he rose out of the lake, but the Moon's light prevented him from reaching out to Jack. Instead, he settled for being a stalker creep, feeding on Jack's fears when both of them were in Burgess. He never met Jack personally, but he watched him. He thought it a kindness to leave Jack out of the fight with the Guardians, but since Jack was playing favorites, Pitch decided he was fair game to try swaying to his side, especially since they had so much in common.
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antisociallilbrat · 1 year
Note
imagine the losers club facing off vecna
it could go two ways
either they're doomed because vecna's coming for the regret and fears they have (i have a feeling bill and richie is going to be vecna's favorite victims in the group)
OR
they're going to decimate him because they already fought pennywise, the eater of worlds, and won TWICE. (well, kind of.) and the losers club is going to be vecna's worst nightmare
yes this was inspired by your poll
- kori -
Kori I have been thinking about your question all day and I've never been so excited to answer something because I kept thinking, could they defeat Vecna? You probably weren't expecting this long of an answer but my brain went wild. Edit: my God this got so long I had to put a break in.
Before proceeding: Tw for mentioned s*icidal thoughts
Okay so first of all we have to establish how It antagonized the Losers and how they were able to defeat It (though there is speculation they didn't fully kill It but that's another story)
It used their fear against them while Vecna uses guilt. Fear and Guilt are two sides of the same coin and with the Losers there's many examples of this. Richie's fear of someone finding out his secret vs the guilt of being that way in the first place, Mike fearing what happened to his parent's vs the guilt of being the one to survive, Bill's fear over not finding Georgie/what happened to Georgie happening to other kids vs the guilt over not being there for Georgie when It got him. And to defeat It, conquering their fears, played a major part in allowing them to do so. And they all successfully did as adults, except for Stan. We're going to come back to him a minute though.
Anyways how It had to terrorize Bill as an adult is a little different. While the other Losers had yet to get pass their fear, as they would in the final battle, Bill was kinda already over his fear as an adult from the start, he knew Georgie was dead, and all that was left was his guilt. Which we see It use against him and adult Bill had to forgive himself in order to fight It.
Now on to Vecna. Vecna who uses his victim's guilt against them before killing them.
There was this very popular post that said something like: Richie Tozier could fight a demogorgon but Mike Wheeler could not fight Pennywise. So let's just say that the Loser's have fought and successfully killed a demogorgon in this universe. Vecna is no demogorgon so when he shows up it's a different story.
And while I agree with you that Vecna would torture Richie, I actually think he would go after Stan first. Stan who we know doesn't handle fear well. Stan would have had the same reaction if they had just killed a demogorgon and found out there was an eviler being coming for them. Like how he did when he learned that they may have to come back to Derry if It wasn't dead. In the book he makes as joke about cutting not just their hands, you know what I'm talking about, and while this is a joke we know there was truth to it for him. Because even as a child Stan feared having to go through that again that he would rather just end it. Now there is a theory that it was It that made Stan take his life and I do believe that to an extent but those thoughts were still Stan's own.
I know I've been talking about Stan's fear, but remember, guilt is the other side of the coin. Now we could reason that Stan would've felt guilty over wanting to just abandon his friends for them to fight for themselves. To 'take the easy way out' (I hate that term) Vecna would've eat that shit up and I hate thinking about how Vecna would've tortured Stan. I do fully believe that Stan would still die first if the Losers were fighting Vecna. He was the weakest link. (Stan bb I love you so much and you are brave but it's true.)
After Stan Vecna would target Richie, Eddie, or Bev. Not so much Bill because Bill's fear/guilt was over Georgie and asking if Georgie is dead in this universe is a whole nother thing.
The thing to consider to is that when fighting Vecna, the Losers didn't have years of research on how to defeat him. Also they don't have powers like El and possibly Will. (Season 5 I'm looking at you) Point is, there are different powers at play when the Party fights Vecna vs if the Losers were to.
But the Losers have Mike Hanlon who is so great. Mike who did the research on how to fight It. Mike would be the one to piece together about Henry Creel and he was probably the one who learned that fire was what was needed to kill a demogorgon in the first place. And based on what happened to Stan, I believe he would be the one to figure out the signs of Vecna's next victim. I don't know if he would figure out the music thing in time though but I would like to think he would. Mike Hanlon is a badass if you haven't noticed.
With Mike's research and Stan's death uniting them together (parallels to It) I think the Losers would have more of a chance.
But what defeated It was the Losers beating theirs fears (in Bill's case his guilt) and uniting together in love and friendship. The power of friendship ain't going to do shit against Vecna, I'm sorry.
So honestly to sum this all up, I simply don't know if they could defeat Vecna. They definitely would not be easy to take down, especially after Stan's death fueling them, but I don't know if they could beat him. There's also the fact we haven't seen how Vecna could be defeated.
Ya'll know I go feral for fandom discussion and if you read all of this, thank you. And a huge thank you to Kori for feeding my brainworms, do you regret it yet?
Now ask me if I think the Party could defeat It, I dare you.
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threadsun · 5 months
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Anonymous Asks: "Could you maybe if I asked really nicely have pictures or descriptions of your ocs appearances cause I’m having trouble imagining them while reading your fics about them also if it’s not too much trouble could you also just write any nasty little sex head cannons for them. If not completely fine! Stay safe ❤️"
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Oooh so all but two of the ocs I've written about have lil pics in my oc intro tag, Moon has drawn Zander a couple times (one with their oc/Z's spouse, Nik :3), and Lucky... uhhhh the best way I can describe him looking is kinda like Vinnie Jones 😂 I never know what to focus on in descriptions of how people look and little doodles and picrews can't fully do them justice, so if you have specific questions lmk :3
As for nasty lil sex headcanons >:3 gonna give you something for all of them so it'll be long and under the cut~
Zander
He's a complete switch verse, and very service oriented. All he wants is to make you happy. He'll forget completely about his own pleasure and is more than happy not to cum, as long as you're enjoying yourself. He's a god at oral, and has a major oral fixation. He'll suck on anything you give him and he'll take any excuse to get between your thighs. Generally he's amazing in bed because he's had So Much Practice catering to every kind of tastes.
Lee
He hasn't had much experience, but he's definitely eager. He's been 19 for a very long time and usually doesn't even have time to eat let alone do anything else. Which means he's very pent up when he eventually is in a position to have sex with someone. He can be a needy sub or a desperate dom, and either way he'll be a little bit feral about it because he hasn't cum in centuries. He's also interested in trying everything at least once!
Mavet
Mav desperately needs to turn their brain off, so when it comes to sex they just don't want to have to think too hard. This leads him to be a bit of a primal dom and a mindless sub. Anything that lets them stop thinking and get lost in the pleasure of being with their partner. He also loves to worship and praise his partner. Their main goal is to make sure you feel adored and special, because to Mav you are! He's definitely a softer dom.
Glitch
Rough tongue, barbed cock, and pointy fangs and claws. He's a catboy through and through! Not that he likes it, but it's just a fact. They're a rough, mean dom most of the time, especially because their desire tends to manifest as frustration and annoyance. If you can get them to sub for you, they're vocal and very pathetic. It takes a while to get him to let his guard down, but if you succeed (or piss them off enough) then the sex will be amazing.
Charles
I hope you like the most repressed lil freak in the world! Desire makes him feel almost as guilty as his hunger for blood. This means that when he finally snaps and gives into his desires, it's intense. As a dom, it's a lot of roughness and "punishing" you for making him snap like this. As a sub, it's lots of crying and apologising and guilt. You do have to deal with all the weird emotional repression and whatnot before and afterwards though. Good luck!
Lin
Dissection and sex are two sides of the same coin for him, and one frequently leads to another. While he can be a very cute, pathetic sub, he's a downright clinical dom. You're a specimen to him, something to be poked and prodded, to study your reactions and inspect you. His actual understanding of the language used around sex and whatnot are minimal, but he'll gladly indulge his and your fantasies whenever you want~
Etienne
Another one who gives amazing head! His injury leaves him with limited use of his legs and on his bad days he tends to experience erectly dysfunction. But there are so many more ways he knows to have fun with a partner (or multiple) that it doesn't make a difference to how good he is. He's up for anything if you can convince him it'll be fun! And honestly, there's nothing you can ask of him or do to him that'll surprise him, he's done just about everything.
Lucky
Lucky isn't as interested in sex as most of my guys. He's mostly interested in watching other people go at it, sometimes helping out if he's asked. But he's fond of groping and playing with people. Holding you in his lap and essentially using you as a stim toy. He'll absentmindedly use his hands on you, kiss you, grind against you. And if you catch him in the right mood or give him a good reason to fuck you, he's strong and rough.
Yofiel
The most notable thing about her (other than the way she'll make you feel like you've seen every face of god when y'all fuck) is that she looks beautiful at every moment. Seriously, they don't have a single bad angle, no matter how sweaty and messy and raw everything gets, they always look perfect. Not to mention every single touch from him reminds you that you're getting intimate with an angel, not just a mere human.
Yana
She's ace, and an exclusively dom sadist. Also she's stone. Don't you dare fucking touch her, just cry and let her beat you half to death. She's more into nonsexual kink, but if you really make it worth her while, she might consider touching you sexually. Specifically if she can use it to cause you more pain and/or discomfort. But really, that's all you're gonna get from her. And don't expect much in the way of aftercare either, she's straight up just an asshole.
Azza
Along with Etienne, he's your guy for intox stuff. You've gotta be okay with fucking outside though! Sure, he'll fuck in your house if he has to, but he definitely would rather find somewhere nice in nature. Predictably, he can get pretty animalistic. Primal stuff comes naturally to him. He's another switch verse, like almost all of my lil guys, and he's more than happy to take whatever role you want him to. He's all about the pleasure for both of you.
Aisling
Sex is one of the many things she finds fascinating about humans. It's so... weird and sticky and... honestly, she doesn't really understand it. But they're so down to try it! You've just gotta keep things novel and interesting for him or she'll get bored. But hey, that does mean he's up for anything! As long as it's new or fun or she can inspect you like a bug during it, she's happy. Though, admittedly, they have a fondness for hair pulling and biting.
Gin
Her favourite place to fuck is underwater, unsurprisingly. The fact that you can't breathe is a bonus! She's very fond of breathplay and fearplay~ She also has very sharp teeth and is a biter, and the taste of blood makes her a little feral. Generally, she's a good one to go to if you're into pain and fear and being toyed with like someone playing with their food. Don't be mistaken, though, there's no lack of passion from her. She's very vocal about being into you.
Missy
Physical touch isn't exactly... a thing she can do easily. If y'all can find a way around that, then things get easier! But if not... well, there's plenty of ways for you two to enjoy each other without touching. Mutual masturbation is one of their favourites. Or one of you ordering the other around, making each other do various sexy things for the other to watch. If you have a glove kink or any other sort of clothing kink, though, she's thrilled to oblige!
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starseneyes · 10 months
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Ineffable Husbands / Aziracrow / Crowley x Aziraphale - Good Omens - A Thought
Y'all, I am super late to this fandom. But, I devoured both seasons like Aziraphale with a plate of ribs and then went back for seconds, and thirds.
Up until now, WayHaught has been my favorite queer ship, but these two adorable beings have slithered their way into my heart and flown into my mind.
I'm not planning to Meta these (I'm still behind on the Spapel finale, the Chenford REWINDS, and never even got to start Nace). But, I do have a thought that I can't get outta my head.
SPOILER ALERT: There's no removing this once it's in your system. I will be talking about both seasons. So, if you're still unspoiled (as I was until very recently), and want to stay that way, proceed no further.
Again, this isn't a full Meta. Just my own weird contribution to the conversation based on uneducated observation and fanatical attention to detail. I might be way off in my interpretation, but I haven't seen this thought discussed elsewhere, so I thought it should be said.
Ready? Let's dive in.
Aziraphale Feels Love
We establish early in Season 1 that Aziraphale is able to feel love. We don't know if all angels share this ability from the show (maybe the book-readers can tell in the comments), but we know he can.
He feels it when they go to the former Nunnery. He feels it when they're driving right before they run into Anathema. Aziraphale feels love.
And, yes, the book is in my TBR pile. I promised a friend to give them script notes, and I've told myself until I fulfill that promise, no other reading. So, soon enough I'll be caught up! But, in the meantime, I treasure the wisdom of those of you who've gone before.
I could wait to write this until later... but like Aziraphale after doing a good deed, I'm about to pop!
Anyway, we also see Aziraphale reveling in the ball and the pureness of the perception of the era. He loves a slow-moving romance spoken through kissing hands and whispered conversation. While Aziraphale has not experienced physical love, he's no stranger to the concept of love in its many facets.
Crowley/[Insert Angel Name Here] and Aziraphale have been doing a dance since before the Earth began. The first time they met, Aziraphale was immediately keen on him. And The-Angel-Futurely-Known-As-Crowley was happy to have someone to share in his moment of triumph.
If we look at the Bible, there's the idea of companionship—that humans were not meant to be alone. I would argue that the same could be said of our favorite eternal beings.
The-Angel-Futurely-Known-As-Crowley was trying to crank all this up by himself. It's not that he wasn't capable. He could've held the plans between his feet, or something. But, an angel happened by who was willing to stop and help—a pure heart eager to lend a hand.
That's where it started for them. And I argue that at the Eastern Wall, Crowley wasn't sure how he'd be received by Aziraphale... but he had to try. And being the angel he is, Aziraphale chose kindness toward the fallen angel.
By the time we reach 1941 (which sounds like a very critical year for these two), they've been through a lot. They've formed "our side" and Crowley's loneliness got a little more bearable while the weight of Aziraphale's conscious increased.
They've traded temptations and blessings, flipped coins, shared meals, supped and sipped. But in their last documented interaction before 1941—in 1862—they had a fight.
Crowley asked for Holy Water. For insurance. And Aziraphale's poor word choice led to their first real breakup (that we've seen.. 1650 and 1793 had the "I Was Wrong" dance, so they might've broken up, then, too, for all we know).
"Look, I've been thinking, what if it all goes wrong? We have a lot in common, you and me."
They're still not putting a label on it. These cutie-pies have been doing this for 6,000ish years and they still don't know what to call it.
Now, to be fair, they're doing this in secret knowing that if either side finds out they'll be destroyed. So, can't really blame 'em for not knowing what to call it.
"I don't know. We might have both started off as angels, but you are fallen."
Gee wiz, Aziraphale! I get that you have to ground yourself in your deeply instilled rote morality, but way to alienate the love of your life, dude!
"I need a favor." "We already have the Agreement, Crowley..."
Before, Aziraphale didn't want to put a label on that, either. Now, we saw back with Shakespeare that Crowley's the one who came up with that label.
But labeling aspects of their relationship is easy for Crowley. Labeling them is another thing entirely. And it's the last thing on Crowley's mind—this time he's actively asking for something outside the norm.
This is a new layer to their trust in one another. Crowley is asking Aziraphale to take a huge risk, and Aziraphale is mis-reading the situation.
"Out of the question." "Why not?" "It would destroy you. I'm not bringing you a suicide pill, Crowley." "That's not what I want it for."
They're talking past one another. Yes, I know this is classic them. But before the bickering can get much further, Aziraphale drops this on him:
"I'm not an idiot, Crowley. Do you know what trouble I'd be in if... if they knew I'd been fraternising?" ... "Fraternising?"
"Fraternising" applies to brotherhood and friendship. To this point, the only one we've seen call them "friends" was an outsider at the Theater. Neither of them has yet adopted the moniker "friend" when addressing the other or speaking conversationally about the other.
And, yes, we're going with the English spelling on this one. No, the characters aren't actually English. But they've both chosen English accents for their existence, so we're gonna roll with it.
"I have lots of other people to fraternise with, Angel." "Of course you do." "I don't need you." "And the feeling is mutual, obviously."
Of course these two idiots need each other. They're utterly alone in the world without one another—both aligned with a side... as far as they can go... but also with each other.
But Crowley is lashing out. Because he's not ready to put a label on this, and he has to keep himself distanced from Aziraphale and anyone associated with his former bosses.
And Aziraphale's fighting to maintain his very black-and-white view of good and evil, here, so as soon as Crowley seems ready to walk away, so is he. Though, we all know deep down neither of them truly want that.
In a fit of anger, Aziraphale flings the paper at the water. And, in an appropriate measure of response, the scrap obeys the laws of physics and flits down to the water rather than sinking into it like a thrown stone.
That's how we leave them (so far as we know)... at odds and decoupled in 1862.
Then comes 1941. The blissfully gullible angel has tried to do right and found himself in the snares of a trap. Bless his heart. (Yes, I'm a Southern Yank—which sounds contradictory, but I briefly studied at Leicester, so I know what my Uni mates'd call me)
"What are you doing here?"
The last interaction of which we're aware prior to this is the one where Crowley dramatically announced he didn't need Aziraphale, and our angel boy responded in kind.
So, while there have been many scrapes before where Crowley played hero to Aziraphale's damsel-in-distress, our angel wasn't awaiting rescue this time. He's genuinely surprised to see Crowley there.
But Crowley has had time in the in-between to consider their friendship and what it would mean to him if Aziraphale were to be discorporated, and if that would lead to him losing his place on Earth. Crowley can't have that.
Aziraphale assumes Crowley's there with the baddies. But, no, he's there for his angel.
"I just didn't want to see you embarrassed."
Watch Aziraphale soak that in. He turns his head to the left, away from Crowley, as he often does when confused or struck by something his sweet demon has said.
"Anthony?" "You don't like it?" "No, no. I didn't say that. I'll get used to it." ... "What does the J stand for?" "It's just a J, really."
Without so much as an apology from either one, they've fallen into a familiar rhythm. And, yes, apologies are very important, and these two need to get the hang of them, someday. But we can clearly see why they've survived so long without them.
When you're about the be discorporated at any moment, time for apologies is short.
"And if, in thirty seconds, a bomb does land here, it would take a real miracle for my friend and I to survive it." "A real miracle."
Of course, we're all focusing on the fact that Crowley is saying, "I did the bomb, you're doing the saving". But there's also a key word in there... friend.
Not so long ago (in their time, anyway), Crowley was incensed at the use of the word "fraternising", yet here he is calling this angel his friend.
I think in the time apart, Crowley realized just how important Aziraphale is to him. He really doesn't get along with the other demons on a social level, and he's failed to make any lasting human attachments. In all the universe, there's one being he can count on—his angel.
So, while we all know "friend" barely begins to cover it with these two, Crowley is finally ready for that label. Friends.
"That was very kind of you." "Shut up."
There's Aziraphale trying to thank Crowley without thanking him, once again pointing out what he sees as angelic traces in the demon before him.
And there's Crowley rejecting those same traces with all his being because he's embraced his exile internally and can't sever from that headspace anymore than Aziraphale from his desire for Heaven's affirmation and acceptance.
"Oh, the book! Oh, I forgot all the books."
Because in this moment of importance, he's going to prioritize Crowley. He put everything he had into keeping them from being discorporated.
But Crowley's wearing a smirk with flare. While the angel flails, Crowley strides confidently to the waiting bag of books.
"Oh, they'll all be blown to…"
His words trail off as he sees Crowley's right hand holding the precious bag. The music shifts as soon as Aziraphale makes the realization—Crowley saved the books.
"Little demonic miracle of my own. Lift home?"
Their fingers barely overlap as they exchange the bag, Crowley looking to not make a big deal of this. But it is a big deal.
Much as Gabriel was smitten with Beelzebub for a gift, Aziraphale is swayed by Crowley's first true act of love towards him this side of Heaven.
Yes, Crowley has saved Aziraphale multiple times. They've crossed paths over and over. But something's different. This time, Crowley called them friends. This time, there was something extra.
And while I know we were all taken in by Aziraphale looking at Crowley like he'd hung the moon and stars in the sky... which he technically did... there's a little sigh there that makes me wonder—was this the moment Aziraphale felt love from Crowley for the first time?
Remember, Aziraphale feels love. And we can tell he's enamored with Crowley long before this moment. Remember how his eyes lit up to hear his love's voice when he was locked in the Bastille? Remember the heart eyes he gave Crowley in hopes that the demon would work a miracle for Hamlet?
Yes, I believe Aziraphale feels his own affection for Crowley growing... but in part because he feels Crowley's love for him.
Now, there are many types of love. It doesn't have to necessarily be romantic (though we all know it is). But it plays into Aziraphale's prevailing theory that the demon is at least a little good and capable of good things—including love.
I think it's easy to pass off waves of love from around you as something else when you're not touching the person who loves you. Because they did touch as they traded that precious bag of books.
And that was an act of love. Beyond saving lives, Crowley protected something material that held meaning for Aziraphale. We all know Crowley's repeatedly stated that he doesn't read books. He doesn't adore them as Aziraphale does—but that doesn't matter.
Crowley saved the books because no matter what they meant to him—nothing—he knew they meant the world to the one who means the world to him.
It was an act of love. And I fully believe Aziraphale felt it.
Slipping into Season 2 with that same night, we can see that Aziraphale's still reveling in that feeling in the car with Crowley as they race through the embattled streets of London during the Blitz.
I paused it at a particularly adoring look from Aziraphale to Crowley. I mean, he's basking in his love.
"You know, that was a very nice thing you did for me." "Shut up." "There must be something I can do for you in return?" "Forget it, will you?"
Crowley's not ready to talk about it. He's never ready to talk about it... not until it's too late. And it's always too late, right?
But Aziraphale is fully enamored and looking for a way to reciprocate. This goes outside their usual Arrangement, and you can tell he's filled with feelings and wants to channel them into an act of love for Crowley.
And Crowley's brushing it off. Because it's easier for him to act than it is for him to talk. If you label it or try to define it, he's going to jump ship. But if you let it be, he's happy to ride the wave of... whatever this is.
Rather than wait in the car, Aziraphale follows Crowley inside. They're both savoring the time together, this time. It's somehow different, and I love that.
"Um, I wonder if I might be able to help you on behalf of my... uh, good friend here."
And, there it is. Aziraphale sees a way to live one of his greatest fantasies and help out Crowley. He has nothing to give him, but this'll do the trick, eh?
Also, look at him adopting "friend" as quickly as Crowley was willing to claim it. While Crowley is the one pushing them forward in many ways, he holds them back in others. This was a case where Aziraphale was a little faster to move forward emotionally than Crowley.
And this is the first night they've spent together in some time, if what we know of canon holds true.
Why am I going into all this!? Because, 1941 feels like one of the bigger turning points of their relationship. Of course, Job was, too. But I spent so much time watching that final confrontational scene of Season 2 Episode 6 only to keep returning to 1941 in my head.
I saw folks positing that Crowley's confession was the first time Aziraphale felt his beloved's love... but I argue he's felt it in waves throughout the centuries and been able to dismiss it as coming from somewhere else.
When their fingers touched in 1941 as Crowley gave Aziraphale a most-treasured gift—his books' survival—it was undeniable. Aziraphale felt Crowley's love.
And he spends the rest of this night trying to return Crowley's affection.
"Cheers for getting me off the hook." "Oh, there's no need to thank me. That's what... friends... are for."
He's still testing it out. The last time he used a word even close to that, Crowley had walked out of his life for half a century. But this time Crowley isn't correcting him, and Aziraphale loves that.
"You're going to need a 100% reliable marksman. Someone you can really trust." ... "Oh, I've got the perfect man for the job. At least, I think I have."
There's no question in Aziraphale's mind that he trusts Crowley enough to aim a bloody firearm at his face, pull the trigger, and that he'll be just fine afterwards.
And Crowley knows he's never fired a gun, but he also knows that if he doesn't say yes to this, his angel's gonna try to find someone else who will—and he can't have that.
He knows he'll miracle it away if something goes wrong. Crowley has to be the one to keep his angel out of harm's way.
"Haven't you fired a gun before?" "Not as such."
You. Two. Idiots. Seriously gotta work on your communication skills. but watch how Crowley's trigger finger actually shakes as he feels the weight of Aziraphale's trust in him.
That's love. That absolute trust. And while Crowley doesn't fully understand what's going on between them, he knows he can't betray that trust. He can't let anything happen to Aziraphale, and he's going to find a way to protect him.
Afterwards, backstage they're sharing the evening like a pair of old lovers celebrating a win. Crowley's lounging on the chaise longue. A triumphant Aziraphale winds a feathered boa around his neck. They're reveling in this moment, and it's the most relaxed we've seen them together to this point.
They could have gone separate ways as soon as the trick was achieved, but Crowley chooses to stay with Aziraphale. He's spent the last 50 years without him, realizing just how much this angel means to him, so he lingers.
Afterwards, they're back in the bookshop sharing wine on what Crowley believes may be his last night on Earth. He chose to spend it with the person he most wanted to be near.
And, yes, Aziraphale knows that he switched out the photo, but Crowley doesn't. For all his anger at their last meeting about "fraternising", it's all he seems to want to do, now.
Aziraphale notes that Crowley's glass is empty and fills it—a small act of love... but it's there. Feeling enamored and inspired, he tests the waters of discussion.
"I, uh, I knew you would come through for me. You always do."
Crowley tosses it off, but doesn't completely ignore the subject, for once.
"Well, you said, 'trust me'." "And you did."
He almost whispers it, like the three little words a lover whispers affectionately to their dear one. It's trust.
For an angel to be able to trust a demon... for a demon to be able to trust an angel... that right there is so far outside the bounds of what they both have been told is supposed to be.
But in one another they found one being in existence that they know will trust them wholeheartedly, and whom they can trust in return.
"You could've walked away. If you were truly as evil as you like to paint yourself, you would've done." "Nah, that's the trouble with you lot. You tend to see things in black and white. Sometimes, you've just gotta blur the edges."
And, let's be honest, his lot tend to see things the same way. Crowley is unique in that he truly wishes to understand. It's not that he wanted to thwart the will of God. He wanted to understand what was happening, to question it, to delve deeper than unanswered, unwavering dedication to a "Great Plan" that didn't make sense.
In Aziraphale, he's found someone as close to his morality as he'll ever discover (someone who goes as far as he can, but ultimately has a separate moral code). But Aziraphale lacks Crowley's distance from Heaven, and thus lacks his perspective. That'll eventually catch up to them.
But, tonight, they're both savoring the seconds of shared security. In the safety of the bookshop, they toast to, well, them.
"Well maybe there is something to be said for... shades of grey."
Aziraphale holds out his glass to Crowley, inviting the agreement. And, of course, Crowley will drink to that. Because that's where their love lies. In the black and white, it wouldn't be possible.
But because these two beings are able to think in the grey, to live in the grey, to love in the grey... they have a snowball's chance in hell of making it. Because something majorly shifts between them in 1941.
Yes, they've been doing this love dance since the beginning. But I think in feeling Crowley's love, Aziraphale is that tiny bit more emboldened.
Yet even after all that... Aziraphale hasn't quite reciprocated Crowley's act of love. Yes, he got him out of a bind with the delivery, but we can argue that Crowley had to rescue him right back with the bullet drama.
Enter 1967. We can assume that these two saw each other again in 1941 based on the fact that the "I was wrong, you were right" dance was in-play and we didn't see it. But we don't know what else might've transpired before 1967.
All we know is that Crowley's planning a "caper" to get the one thing he thinks he needs for insurance... the one thing Aziraphale outright denied him when he asked as a favour.
Crowley slides into his Bentley as the familiar swish of Aziraphale's miracle magic fills the air. The demon's tail lands in his seat just as the angel appears.
"What are you doing here?"
He's echoing Aziraphale's words from 1941. This isn't one of their planned clandestine meetings, and Aziraphale clearly doesn't want to risk the tiniest chance at an audience overhearing or witnessing this exchange.
Where the bookshop is the angel's sanctuary, this Bentley is Crowley's. And they're about to have a very secret exchange.
"I needed a word with you." "What?" "I work in SoHo. I hear things. I hear you're setting up a... caper to rob a church."
In a very Aziraphale coded move, Crowley looks away from the angel at the mention of an uncomfortable topic.
"Crowley, it's too dangerous. Holy Water won't just kill your body. It will destroy you completely." "You told me what you think 105 years ago." "And I haven't changed my mind, but I can't have you risking your life."
Here's the thing, as much as Crowley felt fiercely protective of Aziraphale in 1941, that's how much more Aziraphale feels now. That level of trust and love builds and builds.
Because what Aziraphale is saying to Crowley right now is—I can't lose you. Even though I hate this. Even though I don't want this for you, if it means I get to protect you, I'll do whatever it takes. Because I need you.
Which is why Aziraphale gives Crowley the Holy Water without understanding why he wants it. It's a gift without strings, without conditions, without preamble. Because Aziraphale knows if he's the one to do it... Crowley will at least be safe for now.
Just as Crowley agreed to do the shooting trick... for the exact same reason.
And while Crowley doesn't feel love in the air the way Aziraphale does, he does feel it from his angel. He understand the risks that Aziraphale took for him. And it means even more that his angel took these risks without understanding the reason... simply because this angel trusts this demon.
Crowley's lips part as he accepts the gift, and the two are very careful not to let their fingers touch, this time. Perhaps Aziraphale already feels quite exposed and doesn't want to risk the rush of another wave of love.
"Should I say thank you?" "Better not."
Aziraphale can't even look at Crowley. He's terrified he's just given the love of his life a suicide pill, but also so thankful to know he's safe, for now.
"Well, can I drop you anywhere?" "No, thank you. Oh, don't look so disappointed. Perhaps one day we could, I don't know... go for a picnic. Dine at the Ritz."
And this scene really shows me that Aziraphale is not oblivious to what's going on here and how he feels. But, he's placing very clear boundaries on where he hopes they can someday reach... sharing meals together in public.
Because I tend to agree with those who say that celestial beings love differently. We saw with Gabriel and Beelzebub that there was almost nothing physical to their affection. Their connection was enough for them. Without labels. Without definitions. Just... love.
But I think Aziraphale and Crowley are different, still, from the other celestial beings... partially because of their long time spent on Earth.
They like to eat and drink. They both like to listen to Earth music (though on different ends of the spectrum). Crowley canonically likes to go to the movies. Aziraphale soaks up books like sunshine, and loves learning new "human" things the human way.
These two can love in a purely celestial way. But, I argue they both have formed ideas of love that are a little different from their peers. They experience so much of existence in the human manner that it's impossible for their perspective of love to not be thus colored.
And right now, Crowley is feeling the impact of Aziraphale's love, much as the angel felt his in 1941.
"I'll give you a lift anywhere you wanna go."
Crowley is willing to let Aziraphale set the destination, here. And he'll go. Anywhere. Anywhere with him.
But Aziraphale's not quite ready for it. He knows he doesn't want to lose Crowley, but he doesn't yet know how to move past his angelic programming to fully embrace what they can be to one another.
"You go too fast for me, Crowley."
My. Heart. Stopped. The first time I heard this sentence come out of Aziraphale's mouth, I had to immediately rewind and rewatch. Because the hardest part for these two is always going to be the boundaries they put up in their own minds.
They've spent a long, long time on "opposite sides" while sharing an existence built on half-truths and trauma. They're both traumatized and both struggling through it. It's a miracle (heh) that in all this they've found one another at all.
And when it all comes crashing down in that truly devastating confession/kiss at the end of Season 2... Oh, they're both breaking apart because that trust that has been the foundation of everything for so long finally feels broken.
Crowley admits what they are. Out loud. No more, "Shut up" or "Forget about it". He opens himself up in a way he never imagined to the one being he could always trust.
And David Tennant takes us on the ride of our lives. Look, I'm a long-time fan of Tennant, starting with when he took over the role of The Doctor. But, golly, he destroyed us all with this confession.
Crowley removes his glasses before his beloved at the start of the conversation. And once he realizes how lost Aziraphale is to the system, he could have given up and left. Instead, he gathers his courage to speak his truth.
They're a team. A group of two. And he wants to spend... every second with him. Just being... them.
And they can't really run away from it all. It'll find them, eventually. But they also can't go rushing into the lion's den wide-eyed and unprepared.
But neither's truly hearing the other right now.
Aziraphale wants to bring Crowley with him to change things from the inside. Crowley sees there's no changing anything, and wants to spend whatever time he has left loving Aziraphale.
And. He. Falls.
Aziraphale isn't there to catch him. Because our poor sweet angel has drank the Heavenly kool-aid and earnestly believes he can make Heaven better for his beloved fallen angel.
They're both so bitterly lost.
Crowley covers his eyes and stalks away, muttering "good luck" to his thoroughly confused angel. They're both confused, really.
Because they both want to ultimately be together, but they're talking past one another. The mixed messages that once shielded them through suspicion and scrutiny have sealed their undoing. At least, for now.
In a last-ditch effort to get through to Aziraphale, Crowley takes a truly human approach with "one fabulous kiss". But it's not loving or tender. It's hurt. It's angry. It's as broken as they are.
Crowley takes one step, two steps, hands land on Aziraphale on step three before he gather's the angel's lapel in his hands and tugs him in. The choreography probably had to be perfect for poor David Tennant to make his mark through the glasses and contacts.
As their lips connect, Aziraphale's eyes widen in confusion. But it doesn't taken long for them to close, and as he relaxes into the kiss, his brow furrows as he presses himself into Crowley, wrapping his arms briefly around him.
When the perspective shifts and we're looking at the kiss from Crowley's back, Aziraphale's hand slides down Crowley's shoulder blades, where his angelic/demonic wings rest, hidden from human eyes. The angel's answering Crowley, now.
But fear kicks in, and the angel starts to flail. He's terrified. He's terrified of what he feels. Of what he wants. Of what this means. And he's heartbroken that Crowley would do this now when he's already refused Aziraphale's offer.
But the angel never. breaks. away.
He doesn't shove Crowley off. He waits until Crowley releases him to step back, and once he does he's overcome with emotions. There are too many feelings, too many thoughts, too many possibilities.
And Michael Sheen takes us through all the heartache, the pain, the longing, the hurt, the love, the devastation... Oh, he gives us every emotion and then some.
His, "I forgive you" cuts in jagged edges along our souls, like a papercut shreds skin, but on a cosmic level. And it shatters Crowley, similarly.
They part ways... broken.
Aziraphale is gutted to watch him go. More than any other time, this one feels final. In his confusion and pain, Aziraphale's trembling fingers find their way to his mouth, the taste of Crowley still fresh on his lips.
He presses his fingers against his mouth, trying to figure out where that sensation came from, but all he can recreate is a dim memory of the feelings crashing through him when Crowley's lips met his.
But the one thing that gives me hope is how Aziraphale keeps looking out that window. He can feel Crowley there. He can feel Crowley's love.
I've often wondered how they constantly find one another. Can Crowley feel where Aziraphale is and makes sure to be close in case of calamity, claiming that he's in town for a temptation? Does Aziraphale feel where Crowley may be and maneuvers himself as close as possible while feigning nearby blessings?
Because in the wake of their heartbreak, it's clear that he knows exactly where Crowley is.
He steps back to look out that window because he know that's where Crowley will be. He knows that Crowley hasn't peeled out of there in his Bentley. He knows he's waiting for him.
He feels Crowley's love. And when the Metatron confirms Crowley's words by mentioning the Second Coming, the way that Aziraphale looks back that last time feels charged.
I feel like Aziraphale wanted to run back right then exclaiming, "You were right. I was wrong!" But he can't. I mean, the Metatron is standing right there and expects him to come up and run this thing. If Aziraphale backs out now, who will be in position to stop this thing once and for all?
And maybe, maybe Aziraphale can protect the being he loves most by being in the room where it happens. Maybe that's the key, right?
But this is all projection. I'm more clueless than most of you because I've yet to read the book (yes, I will prioritize it after I finish these script notes!).
These are just my uninformed thoughts! But, I really do think that Aziraphale feels Crowley's love. And I think he's felt it for a very long time, at least since 1941. And I really can't wait until we get our Season 3 renewal notice.
Will I ever write full Metas on this ship? Gee, I don't know. We shall see, I suppose (which is only marginally less annoying than "wait and see").
Be good to one another. Spread love. Choose kindness. Give yourself grace. And don't forget to breathe.
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95jezzica · 6 months
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Kakashi Shipping Musings
Tbh I'm pretty neutral/more of a multi-shipper about Kakashi's ships nowadays, but I do think it's interesting to see how many of the ships have the potential to provide different things for Kakashi.
"Jezz, what the hell are you talking about this time?"
Bear with me here, but well, Kakashi has more ships than I can count at this point, SO! Just to mention some examples:
First up we have Gai, who is Kakashi's constant. Kakashi's other side of the coin who never gave up on him. They've known each other since childhood, with all that entails, and I'd argue that Gai is likely the person who (in canon) knows Kakashi the best out of everyone - including past Obito and Rin. Gai has seen and BEEN with Kakashi at his absolute worst, but also seen and been there as Kakashi slowly worked through it all and came out alive on the other side. Gai might call Kakashi his rival, but it's obvious they're best friends, and they completely trusts each other to 120%.
Secondly we have Iruka, who I'd argue is perfect as Kakashi's grounding. The one who takes Kakashi down a peg or two when needed. Iruka has both called Kakashi out on his bullshit in the past and continues to do so as well, but it's still obvious they respect each other a great deal. Naruto is obviously something that connects them, but from the little I've watched the Boruto series it's obvious Kakashi and Iruka are also portrayed them as friends on their own.
(Which is honestly a great foundation of any relationship - start as friends before you see if you also want something else out of it. After all, why choose between getting a friend or a partner when you can get both in the same person?).
My last example is Kurenai. There's something bittersweet there, but I do think she and Kakashi could make a great couple. Something sweet, and in a sense a... calm lull of love? Especially compared to the other ones he's shipped with. Anyway, Kurenai lost her partner and father of their child when Asuma died, and Kakashi lost one of his good friends. But they made it through. They still live. Kurenai also has a bunch of moments where she shows pretty good insight into Kakashi's thoughts, and there's a lot of understanding between the two of them. I guess my bottom-line is that I see some great potential in a relationship between Kakashi and Kurenai. Additional bonus is that the thought of Kakashi accidentally becoming the bonus dad/older uncle-figure to Mirai is kind of funny, because he probably thought he was done with raising children in any capacity after the mess that was Team 7 (which honestly wasn't his fault). Like sure, Kakashi will do it and he loves the child (Mirai), but he sure as heck didn't plan for this. x'D
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There's obviously a lot of ships out there for Kakashi (such as with Yamato, Rin and Obito just to mention another 3), but my point is that different ships with Kakashi provides very different vibes of what they'd do and provide for Kakashi. None of them are wrong or better than the other(s), but I find them interesting to keep in mind.
Though Idk. Maybe my 4am musings won't make sense to anyone else. x)
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