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iheartbookbran · 3 years

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1/ Okay, this is going to be a bit of a long reply, but do you honestly think Jaime is comparable to Cersei? Cersei has never done a single good thing in her life, has been murdering kids since childhood, and hardly regrets a thing. But Jaime? Like, pre-AGOT, what great crimes has Jaime committed with Cersei, besides incest? It’s pretty clear from Cersei’s POV that she’s been acting autonomously on everything besides conceiving Joffrey. Jaime hasn’t been involved.

2/ Getting into ASOIAF, Bran: yes, totally unforgivable, but a classic trolley situation in which GRRM states most people would do the same. And Jaime has said he’s ashamed in-text, more on that later I presume. Arya: his absolute lowest point, and he acknowledges it as such. It comes at a time when he’s practically out of his mind following Bran, and disturbs the hell out of him later. But hold him to account for sure, this is the closest he ever gets to being like C.

3/ Baby Tully: personally, I think it’s pretty clear in-text that Jaime isn't going to do this. If you look harder at Jaime’s whole relationship with bluffing, the way bluffing is being discussed in these chapters, and Genna, an insightful character, saying Jaime is NOT like his father, it becomes obvious that this is just an ugly attempt at imitating Tywin, complete with trebuchet. It’s dark to threaten this at all, sure, but Edmure is expecting dark so Jaime serves it.

4/ Slut-shaming Cersei - I mean, his thoughts are pretty fucking unpleasant, but… he’s human? This woman has cheated on him, multiple times (and not just as a means to an end, see Taena) whilst asking him to throw away his entire life since he was 15 to remain loyal to her. But sure, let’s just call it slut-shaming lol, Jaime should obviously be proud of Cersei and support her in fucking whoever she likes?

5/ Jaime and consent: GRRM is appalling at writing consent, I totally agree (look at Asha and Qarl)… but he has outright said that the twins’ sex is consensual, whether it looks it or not. You are going to have to use death of the author here if you want to argue that it’s anything otherwise, but by all means call GRRM out for his bad portrayal of it. Tysha: Jaime already knows he was wrong, and it’s plagued him his entire life. But let's not hold him accountable for his dad's extremes.

Oh boy, ok, let’s unpack all this, shall we? Honestly if someone had told me even yesterday that I’d be reciveing Jaime anons out of all the characters, I wouldn’t believe them. Because, again, I’m no renowned Jaime expert and my investment in him extends to... he’s interesting alright, I hope he stays alive long enough so that Bran gets to fling some shit at his face at some point or another in the next two books, but that’s really it.

1. So on the “Cersei has never done a single good thing in her life, has been murdering kids since childhood, and hardly regrets a thing. But Jaime?” part of your ask. I don’t believe there’s much difference on when someone starts committing crimes and it makes it somehow less bad of you don’t begin in your childhood, Jaime could have been attempting to kill/maim children at 13 or at 33 and guess what I would still believe he’s an asshole for it. He’s made choices that involve harming others in the name of maintaining his precious affair with his sister and upholding his family’s crimes, and it doesn’t matter to me when he started on it. This is not a fucking “evilness” point accumulation and Jaime doesn’t get a pass just because Cersei got a head start.

2. “Bran: yes, totally unforgivable, but a classic trolley situation” Sorry, nonny, but did you just compared Jaime pushing Bran from a window so he could continue with his toxic relationship... to the fucking trolley problem? WTF? Jaime, a goddamn adult with critical thinking skills, chose to continue that affair for years and years while having full knowledge of what the consequences of being discovered could be. He chose to be reckless and take his chances anyways. He was between the sharp object and the hard place because he chose to put himself there, and he doesn’t get to say “well I had no other choice” now because he fucking did, for years, he had a choice, and he went ahead with the most selfish one and when the consequences of his actions almost caught up with him, he again choose to be a selfish jerk and harm an innocent bystander, a child, that had no part in any of it. And you could argue that he did it to protect his own children but lmao, Jaime really doesn’t care that much about his children, lbr; just remember how he thinks of Joffrey. Cersei never gave him the opportunity to connect with them that’s true, and he only starts to bond a little with Tommen during aFoC, but I just think that if Jaime truly, sincerely, cared that much about his children’s well-being he could’ve oh idk stopped having sex with his sister??? Instead of being in a position in which he has to ruin a little boy’s life so that he can go on his merry way, even if he feels bad about it, that will never be good enough for me. Jaime had a choice, Bran didn’t.

3. “Baby Tully: personally, I think it’s pretty clear in-text that Jaime isn't going to do this.” I mean, given Jaime’s track record of shoving children from windows so that he can cover his and his own family’s ass, I’m not so sure about that, but fine, that still doesn’t mean that threatening someone with killing their baby so that they will submit to your will any less of a jerk move. I also think you’re kind of missing the point: Jaime here wants to have his cake an eat it too. He tells himself he’s upholding his oath to Catelyn (he really isn’t) while at the same time siding with the fucking Freys and aiding them, he’s basically giving legitimacy to the Red Wedding, the one thing most people agree was a hideous unforgivable act. I just think that if I make the active choice to defend and side with criminals, then I’m not less of a criminal myself.

4. Lol, I made that slut-shaming comment with a clear tongue-in-cheek intent, I obviously know their relationship at present is far more complicated than that, and I do think Jaime has the right to feel betrayed, I just also think that Jaime has this tendency of glorifying Cersei without actually truly seeing her for what she is. At times I almost feel like he considers her the fair innocent maiden to his noble knight, and that’s a big farce to both of them. When Cersei inevitably fails to live up to his expectations he’s shocked, as if he hasn’t known her all their lives.

5. “GRRM is appalling at writing consent, I totally agree” yes of course, he’s the same guy who considers Dany/Drogo consensual, that doesn’t mean I can’t still call it out and see it as a flaw. But even more than that, as you say next: “Tysha: Jaime already knows he was wrong, and it’s plagued him his entire life. But let's not hold him accountable for his dad's extremes.” like, again Jaime recognizing something is wrong and feeling bad about it doesn’t magically absolves him of it. Of course he’s not responsible for his dad’s fuckery but he’s guilty of withholding the truth from his little brother, whom he claims to love, with the full knowledge that it was an extremely traumatic experience for him, and that it had plagued him all his life, while patting himself on the back thinking that’s the right thing to do, and Jaime rationalizes it believing that of course Tysha couldn’t possibly care for Tyrion, so she was doing it for the money, which makes her no better than a whore (because Jaime, too, can be a misogynist UwU). You know, Tyrion has a lot of bad going on for him, but my god he’s 100% right in being furious with Jaime in this situation.

Like as you said, Cersei’s big problem is her lack of empathy, but Jaime’s is his apathy. With some big exceptions like when he killed Aerys and protected Brienne, Jaime’s apathy towards what he fully well knows is wrong and yet choses not to do anything about it is my biggest qualm with him. It’s something I believe GRRM is working with his development, but so far as the story goes, he hasn’t really made any significant turn, so I’m not giving him a gold star for participation. I mean, I realize that I’m the minority here when it comes to my opinion of Jaime, and maybe, nonny, how you and other fans interpret him is how he’s meant to be interpreted, but I don’t care lol. Writing this made me remember what GRRM said...

“Sometimes he felt like showering after writing a chapter about Cersei, though, as her world-view is quite unsympathetic.”—In this article.

I honestly wonder why he had to take a shower for Cersei torturing people (who yes, is a horrible evil person, I’m not trying to defend her), but not for Tyrion strangling a woman or Jaime crippling a child for life, but oh well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

#well now let’s stop talking about jaime i’m sick of him #better tell me about ur day anon babe #ask #Anonymous #ask pam #asoiaf #asoiaf meta #a song of ice and fire #valyrianscrolls #meta #my meta

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gondorosi · 4 years

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The gradual separation of show!Jon from book!Jon - Part II

Magic

The showrunners deciding that magic is an unimportant part of the saga and to be relegated to the background is utter horseshit. There’s a bloody REASON direwolves and dragons reappeared in the world when they did, more or less at the same time. There’s a fucking reason why in Martin’s version Dany’s fireproof nature was a one-time thing, the dormant magic in her reawakening as needed BECAUSE dragons needed to be brought back into the world. Dany, Jon and Bran are the three most magic-sensitive characters in the whole story - and only one of them have anything to do with it in a significant manner (though significant might be stretching it). With Dany, her magical nature is only sporadically referred to (the dragons are the be all and end all) and Jon has nothing.

Show!Jon is a mortal man on every level, without a drop of magic in him. Book!Jon is no Bran, but there are three fundamental factors which show how deeply he is connected to the land.

Ghost: Removing Ghost's importance to Jon is akin to removing part of his soul. He isn't just 'big, white fluffy doggo'. Ghost is part of him, his familiar. Ghost is the physical personification of the magic running in Jon's blood, the proof of the Old Gods awareness running through Stark children's veins. Direwolves have a deeper, subtler and less apparent magic than dragons, but no less potent, and no less essential to Jon than her dragons are to Dany. Out of all the Stark siblings, Jon’s connection with Ghost and Bran’s connection with Summer seem to be the most symbiotic. All the siblings have strong bonds with their direwolves, molded to their own personality - Arya’s connection with Nymeria persists even across the sea in Essos, all legends of Robb in battle are accompanied by legends of Grey Wind and poor Rickon becomes so enmeshed in Shaggydog’s mind that there’s little to distinguish between boy and beast. However, perhaps due to the nature of their POVs and story arcs, none of the Starks save Bran and Jon have their journeys so closely aligned to their wolves. Which is why it’s nigh impossible to even consider Jon’s story moving forward without Ghost, especially post resurrection. The show omitted the obvious implication that Jon warged into Ghost before he died, had no role for him in the BoB, completely erased him in S7 and relegated him to a damn stray in S8. On the other hand, the show AMPED up the Dragon Queen part of Dany to the detriment of all other aspects of her character.

Warging: In a universe where Martin has tried his best to weave in strong magic with actual medieval politics, concentrating all Northern magic into one single character (whose surface they barely scratched) is utterly lazy storytelling. Jon's warging abilities are mighty and second perhaps only to Bran, though I hold the belief Arya is as powerful a warg. But unlike both of them, Jon seems to actively resist exploring his warging possibilities. Some of the resistance may be explained by his environment - with both the NW and the Freefolk considering warging to be something of a ‘black’ art or dark magic. Sure, the Free Folk are more open about it, with Varamyr envying Jon’s gift with Ghost in his thoughts:

“He had known what Snow was the moment he saw that great white direwolf stalking silent at his side. One skinchanger can always sense another. Mance should have let me take the direwolf. There would be a second life worthy of a king. He could have done it, he did not doubt. The gift was strong in Snow, but the youth was untaught, still fighting his nature when he should have gloried in it.”

The show makes NO mention of it. Jon being considered a warg is a major reason behind half the NW hating and fearing him. I don’t remember the show ever bringing up the fact that Jon was feared - they seemed to make Thorne and Slynt’s animosity out of sheer spite and disgust at his bastardy.

The Lord Commander's Raven: This is a favourite obsession of mine. Old Mormont’s raven pops out at Jon at seemingly random moments, but for the reader bursting with conspiracy theories, the raven is just another nod to the fact that Jon has a far greater role to play in the story than is visible to the eye. There's a popular theory that Bloodraven wargs him from time to time, since Jon is the secondary piece on his chessboard. The raven has come to Jon’s aid atleast twice that I can remember:

When Mormont is attacked by the wight:

Jon tried to shout, but his voice was gone. Staggering to his feet, he kicked the arm away and snatched the lamp from the Old Bear's fingers. The flame flickered and almost died. "Burn!" the raven cawed. "Burn, burn, burn!"

Spinning, Jon saw the drapes he'd ripped from the window. He flung the lamp into the puddled cloth with both hands.

During the election for Lord Commander when Mormont’s raven flying to his shoulder is used as a sign by Sam to argue for Mormont’s approval of Jon as the choice.

Bastardy

Jon's entire sense of self is centered around two things:

Ned Stark is his father

He's a bastard

His entire character arc is trying live up to one of those and distance himself from the connotations of the other. His bastardy is the formative lodestone of his character and moral compass but in the EXACT opposite of how Catelyn and Westerosi society as a whole expect it to be.

However, there's a twist to that. Jon's inner desire is EXACTLY what Catelyn feared. He DOES want to be Lord of Winterfell. He DOES harbour resentment that Robb (seemingly) has everything handed to him while the best Jon can hope for is to die at his post, unknown and unsung. He DOES want glory and power and to exact some kind of revenge on a society which deemed him vile and detestable for no fault of his. All the elements for him to become the Starks' own Daemon Blackfyre is already present.

But there's one difference - Ned Stark is no Aegon the Unworthy. Even more than all of the above heart's desires, Jon wants to be like his father. He wants to do what is right. He wants his father to be proud of him. He wants to be nothing like the greedy, vengeful and lusty creature he's always been told he is. He wants to help people and stand up for the weak because that's who he is. At the very heart of it, he just wants to be loved by Ned as much as his trueborn sons. And thus he takes Tyrion's words to heart and wears his bastardy like impenetrable armour.

In show!Jon, ALL of this inner struggle is lost. Jon's bastardy is rarely affixed other than as a side. Show!Jon is a 'good' man. Yes, undoubtedly. But what makes book!Jon a great man is that he masters his baser desires to focus on what's more important. THAT'S what Jeor, Mance and Stannis all saw in him. That's why the Free Folk follow him. That's why half the NW will die for him (yes I know the other half will kill him).

When you have spent most of the show without anywhere referencing how vital the armour of bastardy, and being Ned Stark’s son is to Jon's psyche and sense of self, even the best directors will not be able to depict WHY the news of his parentage will have ripped out the ground from under him. Dany's quest for the throne is out there glaring at us thus atleast on paper making sense that having her undeniable right threatened will rattle her (I personally hate hate HATE the creative decision that Dany's immediate reaction to find out Jon's a Targaryen will be paranoia and concern for HER throne but I digress).

Intelligence, ability and cunning

Up until S4 and most of S5, show!Jon and book!Jon exhibited similar levels of intelligence and cunning. One of my favourite scenes is Sam trying to stop Jon from marching into Mance's camp to try and assassinate him. Jon gets in his face with his frustration and despair boiling and asks if he has any better ideas. At this point he's done a superb job commanding the defence of Castle Black but has also just lost Ygritte, Pyp and Grenn all in one night, a significant portion of the meagre Castle Black forces and is fully aware that they cannot survive another charge. He's beyond desperate and aware that his efforts are likely suicidal but he can't just retreat, lick his wounds and do nothing.

The show labours under the popular delusion that truly good guys can't be really smart, as being smart means preserving yourself and truly good guys will always jump into danger first to protect other people. Politics is bad so if you're a good strategist then you can't be a good person.

Both book and show characterizations of Jon have been criticized for being examples of the ‘Chosen One’ the ‘reluctant hero’ who turns out to be the right man for the job, and for painting ambition and the quest for power as negative pursuits. In the book however, Jon’s ambitions never really had a chance to form. He’s prideful enough in his abilities to believe he would be an immediate select into the elite Ranger ranks and is devastated when that doesn’t work out. By the time he’s come to terms with the fact that being Mormont’s steward means being groomed for command, the truth of the White Walkers is in front of him and that becomes his sole consideration.

To many readers, Jon’s election to Lord Commander was ‘contrived’ though I do believe Sam played the long political game as he believed his friend being in a position of power would lead to an easier path for him. However, Jon doesn’t crumple under the weight of the responsibility - his actions as Lord Commander are revolutionary enough to completely destabilize his support. The show entirely omits all the strategic parts of his negotiations with both Stannis and the Freefolk. Unlike show!Jon, book!Jon does not allow the Freefolk through the Wall only on the account of goodwill and the fear of a common enemy. He takes their children hostage to ensure compliance. He negotiates with the Iron Bank for a loan to stave off starvation come winter. He repopulates the Gift with Free Folk. He shelters, counsels and aids Stannis. He addresses almost every logistical and material issue he can think except for the most fundamental - his people.

On the other hand, there’s no strategic and political angle to Show!Jon in S6 and S7, instead being posited only as warrior extraordinaire.

'The greatest swordsman in the North' - but too naive to not keep the sister who tricked him almost to his death at arm's length. Brave, loyal and courageous beyond belief - but completely befuddled by politicking. Immediately trusting a sister he’s never been close to and who has been Littlefinger’s pupil for a considerable time.

Book!Jon's abilities as a leader are sorely underappreciated, especially considering that his tenure as Lord Commander saw the status quo of almost every aspect of NW life upended. The previous LC is killed in a mutiny. The Wildling army launch an attack. The Others finally rise. A King/King Claimant FINALLY takes the NW's warnings seriously. The Wildlings are brought south of the Wall.

Despite being a new beginning for all recruits, the Night's Watch is the one order in Westeros whose traditions and rules have not changed in millennia. Understaffed, under-resourced and facing a threat the likes of which people would struggle to comprehend, Jon does the best he can. His major mistake is one most young leaders make, and that is assume all of those under automatically understand his reasons for doing what he does.

Relationships

Brother:

If there's one role Jon takes more seriously than 'Ned Stark's son, it's that of brother. Book!Jon is pretty much the pinnacle of brotherly love - Robb's right hand, Arya's champion and dutiful protector to both Bran and Rickon. There's a subtle tragedy in this too - despite how much his siblings love him, all of them, including Arya, have othered him. He's brother, but only half. Snow, not a Stark. The last in the list. 'The last brother left to me' - as felt by both Robb and Sansa.

Book!Jon and Show!Jon are both shown to be loving, dutiful brothers but once again the show is incapable of portraying more than one character at a time in a certain way. Thus all of Jon's brotherly love is concentrated on Sansa, the sibling he was least close to. Show!Jon never mentions Robb after his death mentions Arya not at all when book!Jon never stops thinking about the two of them.

Maybe, maybe if the show had bothered to flesh out Jon Snow's emotional attachment to his home and siblings, his dilemma between his family and Dany wouldn't have been so shoddy.

Friend:

Book!Jon, despite his aloof demeanour attracts fast friends. His staunchest supporters in the NW are those who he befriended when he first stepped within the gates. He's the only one to ever have stood up for many of them. And it's his NW friends who do become truly brothers, as they see and stand beside him during his rise to leadership.

Show!Jon is no different - he's got his loyal friends but there was no apparent discord after him being elected LC. Which is surprising considering that this is the moment that Jon effectively decides to ‘Kill the boy.’ The Gilly baby switch storyline is completely done away with, probably because it is the one decision that very clearly paints Jon as grey. The book Sam struggles to understand this decision - in his mind his best friend would never have done that. Maester Aemon is the one who sets him straight - Jon is no longer just a brother of the Watch, he’s the Lord Commander now. He can no longer be taking decisions just as Sam’s friend.

The show never really dwelt on the chasm Jon’s position as a leader would have created with his brothers who till them were his equals. Book!Jon knowingly starts distancing himself and this is a flaw that comes back to stab him in the chest - again a misstep in one raised to leadership at a young age.

Lover:

This part will be a bit of a cop-out since at this point the only common love interest between the books and the show is Ygritte. The show axed Val, who’s one of my favourite secondary characters and my main preference for a Jon pairing pre-Dany. And of course, there’s far too much plot to cover before Jon and Dany even meet in the book (if they’re ever finished).

There are factions of the fandom who don’t think the Jon and Dany romance in S7 was set up convincingly. Admittedly that’s going to be hard for me to judge fairly as I’ve been in the Jonerys camp ever since ADWD made it clear how Jon was growing as a leader and as a magical touchstone in direct parallels to Dany. It definitely helped that Kit’s portrayal of Jon had FINALLY started to appeal to me once The Watchers of the Wall aired. I’d been one of the many fans who had been waiting for these two to meet on the show - and though I personally found the Jon-Dany relationship progression to be one of the few good things about S7, I can perhaps get why many neutral fans (i.e not commited to any rival ships for either Jon or Dany) think its out of character for them to be so involved so soon.

There are plenty of popular assumptions perpetuated by the show which have no backup in the original material - one of them is ‘dumb, lovable idiot’ Jon paired with the ‘awkward and oblivious as fuck with women’ Jon. Now, I’ll not deny that the latter portrayal works QUITE well with show!Jon (Kit’s face is the perfect cast for this characterization) but I just don’t see it working with book!Jon. The boy isn’t seeking out women but its not like he’s not around them. Alys Karstark was quite obviously taken with him, and I doubt Jon missed it, but there were far greater things of import to consider for both of them - I saw no awkwardness in the text. Jon dislikes Selyse and manages to be both cordial and deferential as required. Melisandre makes no secret of her fascination with him - there’s no bumbling awkwardness there either. And Val - he’s quite smitten and there’s some awkwardness there, sure but its hardly the bumbling variety.

As for Dany - considering that at this point the 7 seasons of the show is all we will ever have, I somehow think the softer show!Jon makes a much better pairing with the more hardened show!Dany. Its as if certain aspects of their personalities were flipped in the show - book!Dany is definitely much softer and gentle without her power and strength being diminished, whereas book!Jon is far more calculated and ruthless without compromising on his honour and integrity.

#jon snow #book!jon #show!jon #ASoIaF #game of thrones #nights watch #asoiaf val #jonerys

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asoiaf-source · 4 years

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Fighting Hate with more Hate. That always works, right?

“Sansa’s fans are so defensive of her because of the rest of the fandom demonize her and hate her for no reason.” - helenakey

So then the answer is to demonize the other women characters for no reason?

Of course there are going to be ‘fans’ that hate on a character for no reason, I’ve seen people post unnecessary and unreasonable hate on many of the characters, not just Sansa, and they can be as annoying, but they are not representative of the entire fandom. Not ALL fans are hating on her, and some are just looking at the character critically. I’m new to the tumblr metas (avoided for a long time due to the toxic reputation), but i’ve been on ASOIAF forums for a long time and there are plenty of Sansa supporters, even if she is still quite a polarizing character due to how people wish to interpret her... but Sansa stans on tumblr take it to the next level!

I’ve never seen this side of her fans before, or at least so much nearly every day, and subsequently the many rebuttals! And how often they like throwing other characters under the bus, often for hypocritical reasons. Like the OP yendany said, they ignore the trauma in other characters or dismiss it as not as bad, when it is often much, much worse. They criticize and attack other female characters to prop up Sansa ‘better’ survival skills, or attribute qualities to her she doesn’t possess (I see this a lot in fanfiction, before I realized the self-insert aspect), or use her age as excuse when all the main characters are young or even younger than her. The line porcelain to ivory to steel... can really apply to any character that has to grow up and face the harsh realities of the world... so it is really hypocritical to think Sansa is special in some way for overcoming her situation, all the characters are going through the same struggle, and many have it much worse. That is where I think so much of the anti-sansa stans come from, the hypocrisy and the tearing down of other just as deserving of sympathy/empathy characters, especially other women characters. It is a weird juxtaposition, that anyone with a reasonable sense of objectivity can pick up on and often do.

I mostly see it done against Arya and Dany, the two more prominent female characters in the books (thus the 2 who draw more focus than #3 Sansa?). The two female characters GRRM is telling a lot of his story through and spending a large amount of the text (right from book 1) to develop their growth as characters and showcase their strengths, intelligence, determination, fortitude, agency, cleverness, resilience and so much more. It’s as if because the other women are not ‘pure’ or see themselves that way and stronger in personality and character that somehow their suffering doesn’t affect them as much because they are tougher and didn’t let anything that happened to them stop them from growing stronger. They aren’t dwelling in victim-hood too long before they pick themselves back up and move forward.

And yet, they cheer when Sansa starts to grow stronger... Sansa’s growth has been much slower, we are moving into book 6 and she is just starting to gain a bit of agency, but she is still heavily under the tutelage of Baelish. We will see how far she gains in the next book and if she will break with Baelish by the end of it and be a fully independent player. But her development isn’t nearly on the same scale as Daenerys and Arya. That isn’t to imply that she isn’t going to be important, but it is clear from the text that she is not one of the main focuses for GRRM, or he would have developed her faster and given her more to do. We will see how much ground he can cover in 1-2 books, but there is only so much he will be able to accomplish and have it be believable, especially with so many POVs and story lines that he needs to develop.

I actually think their attempts to (over) defend her backfire, as so many feel the need to point out the falsehoods and misinterpretations, especially when they are wildly mean-spirited and completely refutable by the text. As I traverse through the ASOIAF metas I often come across fans metas writing rebuttals to other posts, to ‘correct’ their conclusion or ‘facts’. I’ve read so many of these they are starting to get repetitive, I also read some of the Sansa-stan posts they are rebutting and, yeah I can see why so many get upset. If you don’t like it when others tears down or dismisses Sansa, why do you think fans of the other characters wouldn’t comment when you go after their favs, especially so mean-spiritedly.

I don’t think I ever felt so much negativity towards the Sansa character until I had to read so many skewed and biased metas turning her into some kind of saintly YA Disney princess type that is just too good for this cruel world. That kind of character has no place in a series like this. You can’t help but want to point out the wild inaccuracies, and it makes me feel a negativity towards a character I didn’t feel negative to before. And I don’t want to feel negative towards her, she is a Stark and I root for the Starks, especially the kids. I often defended her against those who (I feel) just don’t understand what it is like to be a preteen girl, I relate to a lot of Sansa’s weaknesses and how she feels, especially at that age, and that is her appeal (to me) - the fact that she starts off very weak.

Sansa is weak both physically and mentally, she cares too much about rank, privilege, and what others think about her, her desire to conform, for everything to be proper, and properly in their place. She has the luxury to think that way because she is a rich, pretty, noble girl who ranks at the top of society, of course she sees life as great and never questions it... she is already at the top and winning from birth. This is why (I think) she is so hard on Arya, she messes with her idea of what is proper/good/right. Arya isn’t pretty and doesn’t try to be, she acts more boy than girl, she plays with dirty, smelly, poor children, etc... Those are all an embarrassment to Sansa and go against what a proper lady of her rank should do and care about. Once they head south, all the things Arya gets away with at home will stand out even more and reflect badly on Sansa, by association. So, she criticizes and distances herself even more, because she wants to join the elite glamorous world of the nobility.

The other girls don’t have those weaknesses, that is why they are seen as better able to cope than Sansa does. They grow quicker and stronger faster because they are not as inhibited by what the ‘rules’ are. This isn’t a criticism of Sansa, this is an observation and I think it is the entire point of including a character like her in the story. GRRM could have followed the original outline for her, but he wanted to ‘reform/rescue’ her character and give her (I hope) a better path back to her family and happiness. I think it is GRRMs way to show how young girls should NOT romanticize noble life or being pretty will lead to a ‘perfect’ life. That thinking of yourself as a lady or being a princess/queen isn’t what is important. That marring a ‘title’ (lord/prince) or a handsome face is not enough to lead to happiness. It is what you do with your life, and how you care about others and who cares about you - that is what is important. But some Sansa fans seem to miss that and want her to have all those thing and more... they want it both ways, her to learn all those things, and yet still get all those things... a beautiful princess life clear of the harsh actions to gain it and also a happy family married to the best, more heroic and honorable man - a fairy tale ending. And that is not ASOIAF.

They are reducing her entire arc to becoming a nicer, more pure, and pretty, prize for a man to love, marry and make their queen. If so, GRRM will botch the ending of his series and all the points he *seems* to be making thus far.

A major theme (to me) in Sansa arc is her lack of value in her home and family. Sansa (to me) is like the small town girl who can’t wait to leave her family / Winterfell behind and to move to the big glamorous city (King’s Landing) and become royalty. But once she got there wasn’t able to accumulate with its more complicated and corrupt realities of the court. Even setting the cruelty of Joffrey aside (he is an aberration, not a normal example), how everyone else ostracizes or ignores her (except the hound, and to some extent Tyrion - although he isn’t all that great). The way the Tyrells treat her before and after her wedding is much more representative of how typical court life and nobility behaves normally (I think). Sansa never saw the true value of being surrounded by people who love and care about YOU and whom you can trust and rely upon - until that is all taken from her. She slowly sees how the people at court are corrupt and deceitful under all the beauty and glamor she so aspired to only after being fooled more than once, and (to me) no longer wants any part of it, but is forced to play, thanks to Baelish.

This is a point I find many of her fan miss, they think Sansa is going to learn to play the game, destroy everyone with her cunning and beauty and rise to the top to be queen or a ruler - a path which will ultimately lead to down a very dark and cynical path... but somehow they think Sansa will be different, and her rise will be more like a Disney princess story, one where she will gain power without having to sink low to do it. That is NOT the kind of book GRRM is writing.

”I’ll make them love me.” - another childish statement, you can’t make people love you, you earn love and respect. And Sansa hasn’t done that once the entire series, she hasn’t made a single friend. No one is looking to follow or fight for/beside Sansa, save Baelish, and we all know that plan is doomed to fail, as he isn’t to be trusted or relied upon and wants to use her. I would even question her friendship with Jeyne Poole as it is clear she never saw them as equals, and that is not real friendship... more like Jeyne was a companion/lady-in-waiting type.

The few people who care about her (other than family) either are working on behalf of an oath to Catelyn, or have their own ambitions/sexual desires/pity for her and not necessarily care about her for herself because she was a good and loyal friend to them. Maybe this will change in the next book, but with Baelish keeping close tabs and guiding her, who knows how well she will be able to make any genuine relationships with others given all the secrets she has to keep.

Her only realistic path to leadership is through marriage and that is hardly giving her agency as a heroic rise to a leader of a men... more like sleeping her way to the top. Not something I want for Sansa, and I hope her ‘marriage’ to Tyrion works as plot armor against her being used like that.

Besides GRRM has kinda stressed that ‘real’ leadership comes from understanding people, observation, and experience, and not just from strategics marriage (Margaery, Cersei) or inheritance (Joffrey, Tommen, Cersei - she could prove the point all on her own :). Every leader in the book so far has to make compromises, make hard decisions and even make harsh, sometimes very bad decisions and live with those consequences. None of the characters in the series have escaped this as much as Sansa has, since so much of her story thus far is about her lack of agency, and being a pawn used by others (and to some extent she still is with Baelish). For her to make it to the end w/o doing anything and staying ‘pure’ and that is how she ends up on top, by essentially not taking many large personal risks, allowing others to do all the heavy lifting morally, mentally and physically. If winning means standing on the sidelines watching everyone else do the WORK, and just giving suggestive nudges here and there to have things turn out in your favor so you can just coast to the top (that is the Baelish way)... well, that is kinda the worst message GRRM could leave us with.

If GRRM wants Sansa to become a leader, she will have to get her hands dirty too, she will have to take great personal risks to gain power and accept the consequences good or bad that result, learn from them and move forward... otherwise it defeats one of the main points of his series and turns her into a simplistic cliche version of a character. Every character with a POV has gone through this, it is one of the major themes in ASOIAF, a more realistic, less easy way of looking at how you obtain power and learn by experience and a series of victories and defeats. Thus far Sansa has also avoided examining her actions and how they have affected her, she either never thinks about them, changes the facts to suit her better, or blames others without seeing the part she also played... I’m not blaming her, but her action did contribute to the situation... she never seems to realize this and I feel it is going to eventually hit her hard, she has to mature and grow out of her ‘unreliable narrator’ eventually, and it must lead to something for GRRM to make it such a large part of her narrative of coping with her trauma. I assume he wrote her this way for a reason and is going to do something with it.

I’m looking forward to a darker more realistic Sansa who has more agency and understanding, and I expect her to make her own mistakes and moral compromises (well she already has, but there was some coercion - but it also means she is capable of doing so) just like all the other POVs have had to do. I also look forward to her finally owning up to her past actions and how they also contributed to where she is now. If she can’t take some personal responsibility she will never grow. That is a part of having agency, understanding how your decisions and actions affect you and others.

I wish all the back and forth would stop, cause I’m tired of seeing it in my feeds, but I guess it has been going on for years - the same arguments/rebuttals - so I guess it will continue, even after we get the next book... I think only the completion of the entire series will end some of these arguments, but who knows - after some of the meta I’ve read, there will probably be even more, lol.

Well, I wanted to comment and give my two cents, but it ended up being longer and I guess for me all this is still new and offsetting. I guess I had more to say that I thought, even though I edited A LOT out because I wanted to keep it focused. I’ve just started to dip my toes into this crazy platform, so I’m sure this is just the tip of the toxic metas that I heard can be found here... can’t wait to read the anti-dany metas... that is sure to fill me with a sad rage as well, i know the show did her no favors, sigh....

#topic anti-sansa-stans #topic toxic fandom #topic sansa stark stans

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malyen0retsev · 5 years

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A massive text of ‘Thank you’ amongst all of this MESS

I’ve spent the last six years on Tumblr, in this fandom, and I’m as heartbroken as everyone else that this is the way we all have to say goodbye to it. I never in my wildest nightmares thought that this would be the ending, or that we would all be in mourning/despair in this way. And sure, a part of me regrets getting so invested because of how it’s all gone down - but the much larger part of me doesn’t.

I am grateful, every damn day, to the people on here who’ve become my friends over the last few years. Who’ve been wonderful to be around when we’re all celebrating together, and have been such a massive support the last couple of weeks when everything feels like it’s crashing down. I can’t regret the last six years, because I will never ever regret befriending you guys. And so, without further ado, this is a post to say ‘thank you’ to all of you who’ve made this worth it, and who I love and am always grateful for:

@geekychemist - My first proper friend on here, who I’ve communicated with via shitposts for about four years. For always being one of the first people I message, for being someone I’ve had numerous stupid FaceTimes with, for sending me a fat ass book from the US because I couldn’t get hold of it in the UK. For making me go from hating Petyr Baelish to respecting him, and for being a Gendrya stan with me from day one. I love you girl.

@gendrywatersseaworth - MY G! I LOVE YOU! My ultimate Gendry/Gendrya defence squad RIDE OR DIE (who sends Christmas cards with the SWEETEST messages). For being someone I Skype for ‘10 minutes’ which turns into 2 and a half fucking hours. For giving TMI on the daily, and we take the piss out of it also on the daily. For being the person I run to yelling about every positive, negative, or downright stupid thing I encounter online, and we then destroy with a fuck ton of ‘OH MY FUCKING JESUS WEPT’

@aethelfled - The first person on here to go from ‘online friend’ to IRL friend; who would’ve guessed chatting about Arya and Gendry on here would turn into hanging out irl in Melbourne? Those four days in Melbourne with you were four of the best days of my year down in the Southern Hemisphere, and idk if you fully know how grateful I was for them. You’re one of the most passionate and strongest people I know, and your love for Arya is the ONE.

@villan3lle - One of the sweetest people on here, someone who’s always down to shout about OUR SQUID SON, and also sends adorable Christmas cards. Every time I see frogs I think of you, and that’s a damn good trait to have tbh! You’re such a supportive, wonderful, kind human, and your salty takes are always ones I bloody love reading. No matter how many times I turn up on Twitter or Tumblr essentially screaming at you, you’re always like ‘YEP GO OFF’ and I love you for it.

@gendrie - AKA probably THE MOST CYNICAL PERSON I KNOW I’m here for it and I love it. Always think of how we became friends back before S7 aired and we were piecing together all the screencaps and interviews like ‘WAIT IS THAT GENDRY IS HE COMING BACK’. Your love for Arya is bloody fab, and you’re one of the most talented people I know with your fics.

@insomniarama - Honest to god, idk anyone else who makes so ON POINT meme reaction posts; I’m thinking specifically of the bloody catspaw dagger with the Mickey Mouse screencap of ‘These are useful tools which will help us later’ SCREAMING. Always down for hearing your takes bc you reblog and post SUCH GOOD TAKES amongst the chaotic memes. Also, you listen to my general screaming, which is always a plus tbh.

@ariannenymerosmartell - Your slamming down of anons being ridiculous amuses the hell out of me, and also I have never come across anyone who so unfailingly defends and loves Petyr Baelish, and manages it in such a way that convinces ME it’s great. And your loathing of D&D is hilarious, your raging at them for the Dorne plotline specifically, your salty takes are always the bloody one.

@imjustasmith - Yelling about Joe and Gendry, does that summarise it basically?? We’re cynical but also cynical clowns, and we go into this void together. I love how much you love Gendry, and although he was ma boy already, you’ve definitely grown that love, bc you don’t realise how much you love a character till you scream about it with other people tbh.

@mhysaofdragons - The way you love and defend Dany is inspiring, and you’ve always done it from a totally rational standpoint, not just with stan goggles on. Also you’re a teacher with green hair, so I obvs have to respect that. Even amongst the mess that’s gone down, you’ve unfailingly spread love around for this character, and you’re one of the main people on here who changed me from going to ‘I like Dany’ to ‘I love Dany’ and I thank you so much for that.

@jonerys - Honestly, the same as above to an extent - you’ve been so important to me with making me love Dany so much, and I’m also grateful for the mass-screaming we’ve had via messenger about the show. Your love for Dany is extraordinary, and I love that you’re not ashamed of how fiercely you love this character and how much she’s impacted you as a person.

@elizabthturner - Mate I had the BEST TIME trawling through Reddit with you, and hell, we came up with an episode summary THAT REALLY WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER THAN THE WAY THAT SHITSHOW TURNED OUT. I love shouting about Jaime with you, and the last week of us just crashing ours heads against the wall trying to make sense out of this disaster - and I also love how though we stan different ships and different characters, we’ve never once let that become a toxic thing IN A FANDOM WHICH OFTEN VERY MUCH LETS IT BECOME A TOXIC THING.

HONOURABLE SHOUTOUTS TO @josephdempsie @freedvictors @madaboutasoiaf @jrrtolkiens @lizstargaryen @rabbitbaratheon @bethgreenesgf @gendryastarkers @fosterjane @fvrestlass @game-of-clowns @aryaofhousesnark @thorodinsvn - You are all people I’ve spoken to, not in depth, but enough times over these few years to deserve to be mentioned; because frankly, my dash and my experience on here would not be the same without you all on it. So thank you. Thank you for talking with me, for adding light and positivity from many different fandoms to my dash, and just being all round stars who I love seeing updates from, and I’m always glad to know you’re doing OK.

YEP THIS IS A LONG ASS POST. I DON’T APOLOGISE FOR IT. This fandom is hurting a lot right now, justifiably so, and many of us are questioning if we would be happier if we’d never got involved in it. But I don’t regret it, because my life would be a hell of a lot emptier without you all in it. So thank you. Thank you for being the reasons I’ve stuck around on here for so long, the reasons we’ve got through the last couple of weeks, and the reasons why at the end of the day, all of this mess has been worth it. <3

#you all are fab and i love you #and that's that basically #<3 #sarah rambles

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alternativewinxcontinuity · 4 years

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Don't mind me, just losing my mental sh*t

Has anyone else ever noticed it always seems to be the people who’ve never written/posted anything that leave the most unnecessary (and often meanest) comments?

Or the people who themselves write like they haven’t hit puberty yet but feel like they can comment like a professional editor by giving advice that is exactly the opposite of what they were just saying needs to be fixed?!

Not Winx Related, I just really needed to vent. I got a shit review on a non-Winx Story and as I bitch a little about that I'm finally taking the time to address a review I got on my GOT fic, which turned nasty that I want to pick apart, but not to his face because he is not the kind of reviewer who should be interacted with, so I'mma dump it here. (Rant un-beta'd.)

Like? You really want to leave a comment on chapter 2 of a part 30 chapter fic that you haven’t read saying shit like:

“I don’t see the point its basically a rewrite”

When, had you read even one chapter on, you would have begun to see the divergence that is about to slowly snowball out of control while the universe does its best to stay on track. (yes the 'its' typo is review accurate.)

Like buddy, I get it, you've never written anything in your life and you think this is okay to say to someone because, and this may surprise you: you're an asshole.

"The point" was that it was a fun idea, "the point" was that I was enjoying the crossover and figuring out how everything could go wrong by replacing a single major part, "the point" was many, many other people found it hilarious and so did I. Not "the point" but it was also a version of Harry Potter not written by a fcking TERF.

Or:

'This Character is just really out of character, you're doing a bad job of writing him.'

Okay *goes to check their fics to see how they wrote him to see if she can figure out where reviewer is coming from. they have no fics in the fandom.* 'hey reviewer, you say he's out of character, how would you go about fix him so he's more in character?'

'Oh well, he's just not very *season 1 characterisation despite the fact he's explicitly stated to be season 3 end of his character growth story arc*, you should have him do *a thing that is something he would never have done even in season 1*'

Or shit like (and this is a long one from 'Richard' who hid behind the Anon function):

"This is a great fic. It's surprisingly difficult for me to optimize the protagonist. So first,"

Like? excuse you? why would you need to optimize my character?

"I really hope Sansa chooses to mine the metric tonnes of valuable honey and wax from that beehive once she gets her inventory."

So I hate to admit that the honey and wax would be a good idea, and she will be getting a boon of that, but it will be because she'll be getting Bee Hives later, not because she'll think to strip mine a people in dire straights.

"Also, she has valyrian steel claws, which she now knows can dig into the rock very easily. Those crumbling ledges? She can dig new ones, she can dig a staircase. She can widen the entrance so that her soldiers come in to help mine the liquid gold. Especially since she appreciates the difference between currency and goods. Of course, maybe she'll establish diplomatic relations instead."

So I am going to look so fcking petty when I finally get the next chapter out, because I actually addressed this idea with reality. Trust me, I did some research, and while there's almost nothing easily found on how long it would take to do this sort of work by hand, what I found supported the idea that it's stupid. It takes (and I shit you not) literal days with a team of men using hand tools to carve through even a few metres of rock (the exact time depends on how hard the rock is and how large they make the opening/area).

Sansa would be literally clawing at the walls with her nails which, while yes they are Valyrian steel, are still attached to very human fingers and arms. and here's where my first hand knowledge kicks back in: I went on a mock archaeological dig when I was in high school, I spent several hours scrapping layers of compact sand to uncover artefacts, resistance levels aside, the repeated action is hell on your muscles, Sansa would spend as much time recovering as she would digging. to get all the way to the entrance would take her literal years with Richard's suggested method.

PLUS: the point of the adventures is for SANSA (and Arya) to have the spot light, to be forced to think and find ways to use the new Abilities they've been given, or to come up with new ones. It's part of my whole "Power is Earned, or it is Corrupted" mentality, if you don't work for it, you will sooner rather than later abuse it.

AND: of course she's going to use diplomatic solutions, she's Sansa, and that's what the clue of foreshadowing was saying! Literally everything you need to know to solve the Dungeons is in their individual clues!!!

"Secondly, medieval people already had long-lasting torches which burned for hours and hours instead of 5-10 minutes. Each torch looked like a pillar or stupidly elongated torch that was carried with the tip lit and burning down like a candle. They also didn't use candles as those were too expensive. They used rushes soaked in fat which could be made by the dozens to hundreds with a few hours' work. There's a youtube video on this subject entitled medieval misconceptions: torches and candles."

Oh. My. God. Such. Valuable. Information. If . Only. I had. Known. This. When. I wrote. about. reed candles. in this. very fic.

Literally of the four times I used the word candle, twice it was explicitly 'reed candles' (and guess what other name rushes go by?) and once it was a metaphor specifically about the smoke and not the candle.

As for the pillar candles, the ones that burn for hours are too heavy for someone of Sansa's size and arm strength and the hour candles, (if you've ever seen Avatar Last Airbender, the candles they used in the Secret Tunnel) are unwieldy and aren't so good for putting down in a way that doesn't risk them going out. (Putting them far enough into a wall sconce that it won't topple back out makes it very tricky to remove it.)

Which, why even bother with torches that are more effort to obtain when Sansa's powers make the 'advantage' obsolete anyway!? Not to mention: Displayed Content! If a show uses something even in the background, it exists in that world. Wax candles aren't that rare. (Also side note, because I do my fcking research: the majority of hives which supply the honey and wax to Westeros are owned by the Maesters of old town.)

"I don't really care about those things though. The latter is a mistake literally everyone makes and I didn't know was a mistake until a month ago. Which goes into my third point, how Sansa could optimize things."

Then why bring it up, especially since I didn't technically make said mistake??

"At this point she knows she needs people and she's already given her powers to someone trustworthy. She also knows that healing is a power she can give. And she knows they're going to need this at least as much as medics. And there are indeed people she trusts whom she hasn't approached with an offer of power. Ned Stark, Catelyn Stark, Lyra Mormont of Bear Island, and Tyrion Lannister. Tyrion Lannister can wait but not forever. Lyra should be approached as soon as possible."

NO. Arya was the exception, not the rule, Sansa isn't going to just go off and give her god-blessed powers to anyone else. I was hesitant to give it to Arya as it was, and only let myself because I could use the 'Arya's God is Death, there's more stakes than you thought' to fully justify it.

Tyrion as he is can't be trusted, and future Tyrion chose Dany over Sansa, neither Sansa nor Arya know how his story ended, so as far as they are concerned he's a good ally, but not actually trust worthy enough for this.

For those of you confused, Lyra Mormont is one of the daughters of the Lady Maege Mormont, and one of Lyanna's sisters. Lyra got maybe two mentions in the books and nothing in the tv series so I can only assume Richard meant Lyanna, who is currently 2 years old! But we'll come back to this, because Richard sure did!!!

As for the medic thing, I really hope Richard meant he was fcking off for good in his final word, because if he comes back, I really don't want him to think he's responsible for the medic corps that I've been planning and attempting to foreshadow with Sansa approaching Luwin, and Beth and Jeyne following Sansa's lead with archery.

Like, oh hey, guess which unfortunate field medic bride of a Stark might find her way to Winterfell if she hears about young women being trained in some basic healing to help Maester Luwin deal with any cases of over flow of patients. That's right, I'm planning for triage nurses! No magical powers required.

"I assume she's going to get glass from Lys through the Tapestry of Doors. For that she's going to need tokens. She's going to need tokens for everything, and she already knows it. So collecting and hoarding tokens should be a big priority for her. And that means going places where there are tokens to be got. Places she hasn't gone to yet, like The Wall and Bear Island. Just to get tokens."

No. Again, just NO! Sansa already stated that Tokens and relying on them were a thing that would come back to bite her, she'll horde them as she finds them, but she's not going out of her way to find them because she has things to do! Also: the Tapestry of Doors was a piece of Flavour text for way late in the fic if it ever came back, and like a Stargate, requires one at each end, so someone would have to travel to Lys anyway, which is dumb when Sansa now has a Loom which can copy any 'raw' material, and the ability to convert that 'raw' material' into any object she has the blueprint for, which she can get by 'scanning' with her console.

She just has to put 2 and 2 together!!

"She also knows there are dungeons in each place, and that she needs to get to them. And that it's better if she gets in with people. Like people Lyra trusts to whatever dungeon is in Bear Island."

The thing about the Dungeons is that the whole thing is for Sansa, some of them will have special requirements, but very few of them are crucial, they're just there so Sansa has a place and a trial to obtain Unique Items of game breaking power or ability.

"The last way to optimise her powers is one I don't think she'll take even though it has a lot of benefits. Going with a squad of soldiers into the Dreadfort's dungeon in order to confront the walking dead, with hit and run tactics slowly draining the population there. The main benefit and reason to do this is to harden and blood the soldiers to prepare them for the Long Night, so she should have the soldiers on rotation in order to expose as many as possible to the horrors to come."

Problem is the undead in the Dreadfort Dungeon aren't the same as the Wights and White Walkers, they can just be killed in the same ways. The idea of these kinds of fics is that by the time the Long Night Comes, Sansa and Arya can do most if the heavy lifting. You are right that Sansa wouldn't risk her people for some EXP though.

Sansa will be going back though, there's a pair of Shears and Needle in there.

"Also, the loot should be great. Perhaps another loom. But I would do it even for more bobbins. Or nothing at all."

Literally the Loom is a one off item. It is super powerful with what it can do in the context, so having more than one would ruin the power balance I've been trying to keep between Power Fantasy and OP Bullshit.

Someone of course pointed out that (Richard said Lyra, but responder said Lynna) Lyanna was currently literally 2 or 3 years old, she can't do shit. (they also brought up that 2 (actually 3) characters had already declined the super powers, because it included bad timeline memory downloads.) Guess how Richard took that?!

If you guessed "not well" you get a cookie!

Seriously, I was kind of annoyed at his review because^^^ reasons he was wrong about stuff, but also the arrogance of 'telling me how to optimize my character' was just, icky, so I was just going to ignore him.

But then he went (in response to the other reviewer):

"(snort) I think you need to recall what Lyanna Mormont is like at 10 years of age. She is a force and she is in charge. And what exactly is your objection, that Sansa needs consent or is preserving innocence?"

No moron, the objection is that she's literally 2 or 3 years old, what the fck is she going to do in her tiny little body? But yes, now that you mention it, Sansa (was assaulted and lost her bodily autonomy, she) would place a huge amount of importance on consent, it's one of the reasons she was so upset by Arya taking advantage of her sleepy state to get her to agree.

"Lyanna Mormont wouldn't care. Jon and Robb care, that's why their sister cares. Lyanna would never thank Sansa for trying to preserve her innocence, keep her ignorant, or keep her weak. She would be insulted."

Lyanna is literally 2 or 3 years old, she doesn't know enough to care or be insulted by not being told that she's lost the chance to remember several years of horrific shit before being violently murdered.

Also I notice you didn't say anything about the name correction. Got it wrong the first time did you?

"Which leaves only respecting Lyanna's will. Or her mother's will maybe. Or at least informing them of what she's decided to do before she does it so they can prepare. But Sansa gains nothing by not asking."

And what would she gain by asking? also nothing. Lyanna is 2 or 3 years old. Also the fic isn't about her. Why would Sansa even trust her? The child who thought she could judge Sansa for being unable to stab her way out of some horrible places? who scorned Sansa because she was femme? Because Sansa's strength isn't the same as hers so Lynna decided Sansa didn't have any?

Lynna chose Jon to lead the North over Sansa who had a better claim to the throne, Jon, who spent the entire 8th season saying how much he doesn't want to be king, Jon who legit just tried to walk away from the Command of the Nights Watch.

"And this brings up another issue, the fact Sansa never decided FOR Jon and Robb cuts both ways. She informed them of their choice and she let them make it."

"Sansa didn't keep them in the dark without informing them of the decision she was making for them, as you seem to want to do, since that definitely isn't the right thing to do. Mushroom management is a shit heap."

The boys were already aware that something was up, Sansa had nothing to gain by lying, and she made the offer before she realised the memories were a thing.

"The question to ask a toddler is "do you want to grow up?" it's not a difficult question to ask and it does have a meaningful answer. And that's the problem you have, because you already know Lyanna Mormont would say yes and you want her to say no. That's why you want the question never asked."

"You want to pretend that Lyanna Mormont, DEFINITELY in charge of bear island at 10 years of age, is a gormless wimp like 25 year old Jon Snow who refused to be king and refused to even THINK whether or not Daenerys would be a good queen by constantly uttering the refrain "she is my queen"."

Laynna was in charge because she was the last of her family, everyone else was lost fighting someone else's war. More importantly: she's not even part of the equation? Why would Sansa travel to Bear Island to ask a 2 or 3 year old if she wants to become an angry and traumatised 10 year old in a 2 or 3 year old body which will feel like a prison because she's not as tall or fast as she used to be, because she can't lift or climb or jump or ride or fight like she used to.

And for what? a few super powers she has to ask Sansa for? For mental trauma her family and friends cannot comprehend?

But no, have a look at the part where Richard really started to cross the line:

"No, Lyanna Mormont wants power, wants to grow up, that is obvious. And you're an obstacle in her way. She would hurt you for standing in her way, probably smashing a mace in your knees. And you're so weak that yes you would in fact be hurt by a 2 or 3 year old toddler. She killed a giant and she would have no problem killing you for daring to think you're a giant."

"Stand aside little man and let Lyanna Mormont have her glory."

Now I don't know what this guy's obsession is with Lyanna, but that sounded like a threat to me. Like, who tells people that a fiction character would physically maim or murder a real person just for pointing out said fictional character is 2 or 3 years old?

Lyanna doesn't want power? She's not that kind of person, even if she is fictional? More importantly:

Neither I nor the reviewer were 'standing in her way' because she's a fictional character who's not even in this fic!!!

But his behaviour was pretty shit, so I told him to knock it off or I was going to turn the review filters on.

That went about as well as you might expect.

So I was All:

[I don't know what you think you mean by 'optimize the character' but half of your assumptions are wrong, the rest run counter to my pre-existing plans and I don't care for your overall demeanour. I was prepared to leave your post be, but your recent reply is inappropriate and uses language which runs VERY close to sounding like a death threat, which I DO NOT APPRECIATE. I don't want to be 'that bitch', but I am going to ask you to please be respectful, or I will be turning on the comment filters.]

Because I don't Know if you know this but AO3 has three filters in the privacy tab of every story posted:

1] “Only show your work to registered users”

this means that you MUST be logged in to an AO3 account to even find it let alone read it

2] Disable Anonymous Comments

you Must be logged in to leave a comment

3] Enable Comment Moderation

doesn't matter what you say, with out Author OK, your review will not be showing up in the comment section.

(… tumblr just did that thing again where it refreshes in the middle of my thousands of words of text and loses all my stuff, it is literally making me want to kill myself. Because I have to retype all the responses from the next fcking section. It's my own fault for not just using a word document, but also: fck tumblr? For being stupid?)

So, from here Richard had three options:

1- Apologise and move one

2- say nothing and pretend it hadn't happened and move on

3- He went with this:

“Your Sansa Stark is weaker than canon Sansa Stark. It's true your Sansa Stark has a strictly higher level of ambition than Sansa Stark. But what she uses in order to achieve her goals, her resources, is weaker.”

“She uses actions, capabilities and skills. She uses embroidery, archery, learning (archery), she uses the people she already knows but not strangers. She uses and manipulates the people she can interact with, learn from, act upon. The level of people that is directly equal to skills.”“

She doesn't use language, nor does she use strangers. Strangers are the level of people that don't require interaction but DO require language to deal with. And your Sansa Stark's language is too weak. When she manipulates the maid in the Dreadfort, it's entirely accidentally and unintentionally.”

Sansa has seen what power does to people, she's seen what lies ahead for the manipulators of the world, she's been taught at the side of Cersei and Petyr, and she does not want to become them. For all the horrific things she's gone through, Sansa came out the other side with her compassion intact, possibly even stronger than before.

“She talks to Domeric only because she's already interacted with him, she's been healing him for days by that point. She fakes Green Dreaming to her father because she knows her language is inadequate and will achieve nothing. The way her father and mother treat her, they know mere words would be inadequate. And they would dismiss any words she said. "Haven't we told our children dreams can't hurt you?"”

She doesn't want to interact with Domeric, he looks like the man who violated her repeatedly, killed her brother and sacked her home. She wants to be as far away from him as possible. When she does end up interacting with him, despite being so sleep deprived it's a wonder she hadn't started hallucinating, she manages to win him over pretty easily.

She fakes Green Dreaming because “a god made me time travel” is not only a ridiculous concept but a foreign one as well. Why would Sansa tell her parents that when it would mean admitting to going through some horrific shit, to letting her family down and being let down by her family when Green Dreams are a known thing which explains her knowledge. It's not inadequacy, it's efficiency and an attempt to hide horrible things.

I need to point out that “Haven't we told our children that dreams can't hurt you?” is said by Catelyn in self-recrimination afterwards, and is said specifically to reference the reason Sansa might not have felt she could go to them with her problem was because it was based on dreams. Because what parent would take dreams as a serious threat unless they were a Nightmare on Elm Street survivor, especially since Green Seers have become so rare they've been relegated back to myths and stories by the time Jojen and Bran show up.

“Language requires actions such as mouthing, shouting, tonguing, but actions will never add up to language. Actions are necessary but NOT SUFFICIENT for language. This is why you can't write a single damned sentence with only actions. Try it, you won't be able to.”

I can't take this paragraph seriously if only because of the use of the word 'tonguing'. FFS, he sounds like a small child trying to convince people he's got a PhD. 'If I throw out some big words and phrase them right they'll sound 'academic' and I'll look smarter!

'I know this probably isn't what Richard meant but: Sign Language? Is literally all actions?

(Obviously real language requires thoughts and concepts to be communicated to be a language, but even the most primitive of body movements can express something: I'm hot, I'm hungry, I'm angry, etc. It might not be true language, but it is communication, which is the basis of language, the reason we made language in the first place.)

“Canon Sansa Stark had dreams, plans, and designs on what others have. She wanted to wed a prince, she had designs on the princess position. She wanted out of King's Landing. She wanted Winterfell. She wanted the Knights of the Vale to fight ... FOR HER.”

“People who had never met canon Sansa Stark in their entire lives fought and died for canon Sansa Stark's benefit. For the designs of a (her words) stupid girl. And sure, her initial designs were stupid. And they only rose up to being pathetic. But they were designs, they were dreams, they were plans.”

I need to talk about my interpretation of Sansa for a minute, because that's what I've been writing: my interpretation of Sansa.

Sansa was raised with an idea of how the world should be, not how it was. She was raised loved and protected and surrounded by men of honour. Fed stories of heroes, brave knights and valiant princes, where good always triumphed, or was romantically defeated and beautifully tragic.

She wasn't raised to expect dishonourable men and hidden motives, she wasn't raised expecting a (metaphorical) dagger in her back.

She didn't want the crown, she didn't want the throne, she wanted “the prince” from her stories, who would cherish her and care for her and give her a family filled with love. And yes the pretty dresses and the shiny jewels and the adoration and praise. But she never wanted power, that came later.

Later after she'd seen the cracks in the world and the grime beneath the gilding, when she'd learned friend and foe were often the same, that people with power would hurt her, use her, that she was nothing but a trophy to them.

Sansa wanted power because “if I'm the one with the power, then they can't hurt me any more, if I have the power I'll be safe, if I have the power then I can protect people, if I have the power I can stop people like that.”

But Sansa has never had power, it was always borrowed, an illusion that could vanish at one misstep. She had no money of her own, her blood made her valuable to others as a trade commodity, but gave her no personal power.

When people fought for her, it was never really about her.

Petyr gave her armies so he could win favour so he could use her as a proxy for her dead mother. Brienne fought to fulfil an oath to Sansa's dead mother.

The Men of the North fought for Winterfell, to get revenge on the Boltons. The Wildings followed Jon Snow. And when it was over, it was Jon who was crowned king, not Sansa the one who had to talk him into getting back their home in the first place.

Her parents and Robb fought for her, but their armies fought for House Stark, for the insult Sansa and Arya's capture and Ned's death presented.

“Your Sansa Stark has no plans, has no dreams, and certainly has no designs. She doesn't use language, because her language is too weak and has no power. She doesn't use her emotions or feelings because they are brittle and far too weak to be used. Weaker even than the emotions and feelings of a stupid girl. She doesn't use her mind or intellect because she doesn't cogitate. She uses skills and ONLY skills. To try to fake everything else.”

It's odd that he says this when he started off this response by saying my Sansa was more ambitious than canon Sansa.

First of all: I thought I was making it fairly clear that her goals were: save her family, save the North, stop the White Walkers.

Her dreams are to never be beholden to another man ever again.

Sansa wants her family alive, she wants to be safe and she wants to be free of all the political manipulations she had to sit through in the first timeline.

Second of all: Richard has clearly never been assaulted in his life in any way and I am so fcking happy for him. Really.

Look, people who suffer long term trauma, (or short term, it doesn't matter how long really) are not magically okay afterwards. The idea that sexual assault makes femme women strong is disgusting and so toxically prevalent in movies and shows and books these days its... horrific. You'll notice butch women like Arya aren't typically assaulted to be strong, because they're already so 'manly'. It was a genuine surprise when they tried to have Brienne assaulted, but that was more about showing how much of a 'good guy' Jaime was than Brienne.

You can really tell in several places that the tv series had non-con fetishists on staff.

Sansa is so brittle now, because she feels safe enough to let herself feel the fear she wasn't able to earlier, to work through the panic and the anger and all the emotions she couldn't before.

“Your Sansa Stark plans to use skills in order to change the world. And since it's obvious the world isn't run by woodcutters or farmers or archers or anyone else defined by their SKILLS, she will fail. She will fail abysmally, totally and catastrophically. She hasn't got the slightest sliver of a chance.”

Quick tally: Sansa has managed to convince her parents she had knowledge of the future, put them on track to realising Petyr Baelish was stealing from the Crown, got Stannis curious in Dragonstone, came up with a plan to gain favour for the North by helping to pay of part of the Crown's debt and has begun working on a plan to ensure more food is available for the Northerners when Winter arrives.

Not to mention, (and you'd easily miss this): Sansa has begun influencing a shift in the young women of the North who had previously been influenced by the South.

The thing is, Richard seems convinced its about the looting and the grinding, 'kill enough stuff and you become a God!' but it's not.

“So you stacked the deck in her favor. You put a high tier deity on her side. Now Sansa has a slim chance to squeak out a win, using the power she's borrowing. But here's the thing, it will never be HER win because it isn't HER power, it isn't HER plans. Your Sansa Stark has no plans, but her deity does, even if they're stupid plans of puerile amusement-seeking. So IF there is a victory at the end, it will never be Sansa Stark's victory, it will be her deity's. Because she is only a pawn, a tool, a peon, a minion.”

Richard doesn't seem to understand what the introduction of Arya's God means for the lore. The amount of death from the wars is causing Bad Things in the back ground of the original timeline.

Sansa isn't the Being's pawn, she's their start player, the Being is a sponsor who's giving Sansa the chance and resources to be greater than she was. It's not about 'puerile amusement-seeking', but how do you tell a young woman who's gone through what Sansa's gone through that the fate of the entire human race is in her hands, that if she fails it won't just be her family that falls.

If Sansa thinks the Being just wants amusement, then Sansa will act as she pleases and hope it's good enough, which puts her closer in line with saving the world than if she's actually trying to save the world, because that is a much bigger task than 'stop the issues that got my family killed'.

The Being is only victorious if Sansa is, it's their shared victory.

Now up until this point Richard has been an arrogant tool, but it might almost seem like he's being reasonable. This is where he loses the plot and just starts back on his favourite fall back: threatening people with violence.

“Now generally, when an author writes a protagonist who is a pawn, a tool, a peon and a minion of a higher power, when they write a protagonist who is WEAK, it's because they themselves are weak. Generally doesn't mean universally however, so I had to know. And now I do. You are weak Jasper.”

“You want to convince me of something Jasper. You want to convince me that I'm wrong, that my opinion is wrong, that my position is wrong, you want me to change my mind, you want me to know my plans and judgment are wrong. Because they're in conflict with yours. But how do you achieve this? By threatening me with your borrowed power. Exactly like your Sansa Stark.”

Did he have to google the list of synonyms there?

I don't know what it is about being referred to by name, but it bugs me that he chose to use only a portion of my pen-name like we were somehow familiar, rather than not using my name or referring to me as OP or something along those lines.

Also I really have to disagree that only weak people write about people being weak, but I don't think his opinions of weak and strong match with mine either.

He is wrong, but more importantly: he threatened someone with violence for daring to correct him.

I wasn't threatening him, I was warning him to stop being an asshole or I would disable anonymous commenting.

“You do this because you're weak. And what do we call weak people who complain about strong people's actions when they are the bitches of higher powers? We call them exactly what you "don't want to be", we call them bitches. You are a bitch to higher powers and you bitch about higher powers like me. You bitch about people who can use their intellects. And for a good reason too.”

“You fear my attitude because I am the bitch slapper. I slap little bitches like you all fucking day long every single day. It doesn't matter to me who it is, whether it's my own friends who are bitching, I slap them for it. And you will never ever convince me that you're right. Because you're weak. And because I don't respect bitches.”

Look, I've seen enough therapists of different varieties to pull off some impressive psych 101 bullshit so I can tell you right now: Richard is a man who has never held any real authority in his life, he has mediocre skills at best and often feels talked down to because he feels more entitled than he is and no one treats him like a god for breathing. He refuses to back down when wrong even in the face of evidence and then he pouts because the world didn't shift to match his delusions.

The worst part is I know this, and I know I shouldn't let this bother me. But it does. But it shouldn't and I can tell him to his 'face' via review reply why he's wrong, or he'll know it bothers me, then he'll feel validated, even though he's wrong. And he'll probably threaten someone with more violence and then I really will have to disable anon comments and effectively punish some readers who did nothing wrong.

“So what are you going to do to me that I care about? Stop me from reading your fic? You don't have that power. Stop writing it so that I can no longer learn how your mind works, my ulterior motive? That would be cutting your nose to spite your face. You would suffer far out of proportion to me. I would just move on to some other author. Report me? Go ahead, I don't care. Really, we're done here, so have a nice life.”

Yes I do, literally the first of the privacy filters would stop you from reading, but that would hurt my other readers who don't have an account.

'Ulterior motive'? Buddy, you apparently don't understand how any mind works.

Again: if you don't care why bring it up?

Are you really leaving though? Do you promise?!

“The only thing you could ever do to me is surprise me by ceasing to be a weak little bitch. Or even resolving to not be one. This would invalidate all of my predictions by rising to my implied challenge. That's what I like, win-win. (lol) I'm not holding my breath though.”

I don't have anything to prove to this douche tool and it bothers me that this is bothering me so much!!!! The worst part is, this review came at a time when my attention for the fic was flagging, so I'll never know if it was really this review or not that made me stop writing for the past few months?

Those of you with an AO3 account who drop by my profile to see if I wrote anything interesting may have noticed my recent 'for archive users only' locked fic. I can confirm that yes: to mental detox this review I went and watched a Chinese Xianxia drama that has become my new hyper-focus. Almost 100 plot bunnies are being posted into the locked fic in an effort to purge it rom my brain so I can get back to what I was doing. It seems to be working. I wrote about 1000 words for Episode: Sisterhood this week, so the chapter is almost done. At last!

#just blog stuff #i’m just bitching now #absolute aggro #swearing #op would like to die #not winx or alt con related #i'm just really angry about it even though I know I should know better #eleven pages of op being an angry incoherent mess

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killthebxy · 5 years

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a heap of headcanons, pt. 2:

the defenses of Winterfell + strategy for the battle

let it be known that i am writing these for a simple reason: i am greatly unsatisfied with how the battle was planned for episode 3. my portrayal is always book-based, even in show-only plots and threads, and book!Jon is a brilliant strategist --- he and Robb learned it all from Ned and, while it is true that Jon lacks real war experience when compared to Robb, it is no less true that this boy: 1) helped defend Castle Black from Styr’s attack, even if it meant risking to be the one to kill Ygritte, 2) was charged with the defense of the Wall, at age 16, by Donal Noye who believed him fully capable of such, 3) was named acting commander by maester Aemon, the sagest of men, and 4) held the Wall against Mance Rayder, 100,000 wildlings, mammoths, giants --- not because he had the numbers, but because of his exceptionally intelligent planning of their defenses. add to this the fact that Jaime Lannister, lord commander of the Kingsguard, a man able to battle Ned Stark eye on eye, is at Winterfell, and definitely there is no way i will ever accept how badly this battle was planned. i am no battle specialist myself, but i will try my best to make sense out of this. and also: i headcanon that these strategies were placed together by Jon and Jaime, with Tyrion’s supervision together with Jorah, Grey Worm, Dany’s bloodriders, Sandor, Beric, Tormund, Davos, Theon, and Brienne (i.e., characters with training and experience in battle strategy) --- and then shared, discussed, debated, and fixed as necessary together with everyone else in the castle. no one was left out, no matter their role.

first and foremost, while i do not personally agree with the suicidal plan of “let’s lure in the Night King and use Bran as bait”, i will accept it because otherwise i would have to change literally the entire episode and everyone’s own muses’ actions and this is obviously not my intention. the strategy is what will differ.

the Unsullied are the main line of defense and their purpose is to shield the castle --- if a single wight enters the castle, everything is lost. the Dothraki riders, on the other hand, are purely offensive and they need a vast field to perform their attacks. HOWEVER. whilst they are still the van, they are not pitched head-on towards the wights nor are they tossed carelessly like meat to be slaughtered. they will be placed on the sides of the field, so to speak, so that they can charge into the wights as the wights come forth. so, let’s envision it like this: there is Winterfell, right in front Winterfell the Unsullied legions are placed as a shield. the wights will charge right into this shield, as they are vicious and rely on ruthlessness only, therefore they attack in a block. this will allow, therefore, for the Dothraki to charge into them from the sides, supporting the shield this way and minimizing their deaths as much as possible.

regarding the dragons: this will build on my plotting with @zcldrizes and @perzyr. i write Jon as having no Targaryen blood (except for very few threads plotted otherwise), and he is able to ride Rhaegal only because of a bond they have built ever since Jon arrived at Dragonstone --- Rhaegal chooses Jon for his rider not because of blood, but because of the person Jon is. still, Jon is a much less experienced rider than Dany, and his initial plan is not to go fight in the air. for the initial part of the battle, Jon stays on the ground and supervises and commands from atop Winterfell’s walls, together with Arya and Sansa and Davos. Ghost is with him, because Jon knows his direwolf won’t make a difference in this sort of battlefield --- there is 99% chance Ghost will be butchered, and he will be much more useful within the castle walls, to help shielding from the inside out.

regarding the dragons, pt.2: again based on my plotting with Artie and Daisy --- while Jon stays on the ground for now, Dany flies off with Drogon and Rhaegal. considering everything i state above, too --- they begin burning the waves of wights, again as a way to keep casualties to a minimum, which allows the Dothraki riders to only charge in when it is safe --- and then retreat again, rinse and repeat. eventually, Dany spots the Others by the edge of the wolfswood and steers Drogon that way to go fight. Rhaegal stays behind and continues supporting the forces on the ground because 1) he refuses to fight Viserion (this is @perzyr‘s beautiful headcanon, with a lot more detail and depth to it than i am exploring here), and 2) he refuses to abandon Jon. after some moments of airborne fighting, Dany realizes she will be unable to bring down Viserion on her own and this is when she returns for Jon --- in this moment, Jon and Rhaegal together decide to go fight as well, and this is when everything else happens like we see unfolding in the episode.

on the other hand, this when the odds start becoming very tilted against everyone fighting on the ground. with the dragons gone off to fight Viserion, the armies do not have that protection anymore --- and they are greatly outnumbered by the wights. this is when the retreat begins.

unlike what we see in the episode, the walls are very well prepared to deal with wights trying to climb up --- this is literally what Jon had to face when defending the Wall, and he’ll put all this knowledge and experience to good use. atop the walls, there are boulders and scorpions and barrels filled with stone and ice and more barrels of oil and torches. everyone there is armed with longbow or crossbow, and fire arrows.

in the meanwhile, however, something else happens that definitely ruins all these preparations --- the moment when the Night King, after being knocked off Viserion and now face to face with Jon, rises all the dead soldiers. because this means there is now wights within the castle walls, no matter what.

regarding the crypts: i had a thought of headcanoning that, rather than the crypts, Jon would have everyone gathered at the great keep --- because he is not stupid, and he knows the crypts are an accident waiting to happen, as soon as the Night King brings up his arms. however i ultimately chose not to because 1) again, it is not my intention to change half the episode for everyone, and 2) in theory, the crypts ARE the safest place. not when the dead rise, yes, but at this point the entire castle is overrun and it will make little difference where you are. no place is safe anymore --- when the crypts fall, every other place is already gone before.

one final note regarding Ghost: as i said, he is NOT sent off to fight, as in my personal opinion this makes little sense. he stands by Jon for as long as Jon is on the ground. once Jon leaves with Rhaegal, he instructs Ghost to retreat to the crypts and guard everyone there --- exactly because he knows there is a real risk matters will go downhill. for this battle, Jon had a layer of armor made for Ghost, that covers his torso. around his neck, he wears a collar with spikes made of dragonglass, to both help him defend and attack against the wights. if anyone who writes the Staklings wants to join me in on this, i am more than glad to headcanon that Shaggy, Summer, and Nymeria (and Frost, ft. @clevrest) are also wearing similar armor.

tl;dr: if you look at the outcome, it is pretty much the same as what happens in the episode. a similar number of persons died. HOWEVER. they died because the odds were severely against them and because it was impossible to have done much more --- not because anyone in Winterfell was too stupid to properly plan this battle.

#GOT spoilers #long post #「ᵐᵉᵗᵃ ᵗᵃᵍ」ᵗʰᵉ ᶜʳᵒʷ ᶤˢ ᵗʰᵉ ʳᵃᵛᵉᶰ'ˢ ᵖᵒᵒʳ ᶜᵒᵘˢᶤᶰ #「ʰᵉᵃᵈᶜᵃᶰᵒᶰ」ᶰᵒ ˢᵗᵃʳᵏ; ᵇᵘᵗ ʰᵉ ᶜᵒᵘˡᵈ ᵈᶤᵉ ˡᶤᵏᵉ ᵒᶰᵉ

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shazyloren · 6 years

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The Room - Chapter 20 - Giving the Spirit

Link: http://archiveofourown.org/works/12710496/chapters/30176454

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Jon had never seen chaos like this before.

Girls on the hufflepuff table were trying to catch glimpses of their reflections in the clean silver plates that they'd later be eating off of, hoping not one single hair fell out of place on their heads. Like Durmstrang and Beauxbatons cared what they looked like, Jon thought. From everything that he'd heard they're all pompous enough to think they're the most attractive people in the world anyway. Not to mention half the girls who attended Beauxbatons had some form of veela blood - what's the point in worrying you look bad? You will to them anyway.

They were sat in their correct seats, all waiting for the students from each school to join them on the dinner tables and begin the welcome feast. It had been hard to organise such chaos. The hall only just fit the four tables with enough space for movement let alone another two tables for the travelling guests. Theon groaned as he finally took his seat opposite Jon. "I hope all the fuss has been worth it"

"Like you've done anything to contribute" Arya snorted.

"Extra prefect rounds, it's been hellish!" He argues back. Jon was inclined to agree with him. If he was not in lessons or in planning meetings with Daenerys about this welcome feast and it's decorations, they'd been patrolling. The school was having extra security thanks to the attacker that managed to get into the school, and that meant patrolling twice as long in groups of four covering twice as much area.

Daenerys had even huffed at all the bother, and she along with himself had been the ones to be attacked. She'd said it really wasn't that big of a deal and that Jon easily outsmarted the attacker in the security briefing they got as heads. Professor Lannister had the final say on the matter, and in the end they were cracking down on lax behaviour.

Jon hadn't seen anyone else much the past week and a half other than Daenerys. They had so much work to do as Heads of the school plus all the extra patrols with the tournament turning up that he'd sometimes forgotten what Sansa had even looked like. He'd received a letter from his father saying that his brother and sisters had all shared concerns with him via letter that he was over working.

He didn't feel tired, and he was only doing his fair share, even a little more to help out with Daenerys who was still needing time to recover from her mother's death. Jon had hoped to see her when she returned from her mother's funeral, just to offer support, but he had not been able to find her anywhere. It wasn't until the next day he'd seen her at breakfast where he managed to ask her if the service was well done.

She'd apologised for disappearing, they were suppose to patrol that night but he'd roped Theon into helping him even though it was his one night off patrol. Theon had complained but had shut up rather quickly when Jon covered for Dany and said he'd sent her to her dorm to rest following her mother's funeral, even if he had no idea where she'd gone.

She didn't say either, and Jon got the feeling she was up to something which worried him more than he already was about her. If he didn't calm down he was probably going to go grey before he hit twenty at this rate. All because Daenerys Targaryen was turning him into a worry wart. If someone had told him in the summer this would be the case he would've hexed them into next week.

And even now, as the whole school waited in heightened anticipation for their first glimpses of the other schools, Jon found himself looking across the way to the Slytherin table where she was sat with the Sand twins, laughing about something with her mouth but it never fully reaching her eyes. Perhaps he could do something to help put the spark back into them, to give her the fire back that she'd recently lost. Even though they argued all the time in a weird way he kind of missed it.

Here I go again, thinking about her, he thought to himself. Any time they had spent apart he found himself wondering what she wa sup to, if she'd heard whatever gossip was circling the school or perhaps what was on her mind. He liked to think she was sleeping, she needed it. She was always so tired. And she wasn't always looking after herself. Their days organising stuff fo the other schools arrival could take hours at a time but she refused to stop.

Jon had decided to take matters in his own hands. He made sure his bag was always stocked with some drewballs or chocolate frogs and a bottle of water so that whenever she wasn't looking after herself he could a least offer her something to eat. He'd even spoken to Pyp in the kitchens about leaving her the odd thing on her pillow in her dorm just as a reminder for her to eat.

She hadn't said anything about it but he hoped she was grateful that he was looking out for her. Just as he was now, watching her drum her fingers on the table as she stared into a candle. She wouldn't notice him, she never did. But he did not mind this, he was too worried about her than to let anyone else worry about him.

"All this nonsense for eternal glory" Robb tutted. Jon's eyes flickered from Daenerys' solemn expression to Robb's bored one. He raised an eyebrow.

"You want to be careful, Robb. You'll disappoint your mother completely if she catches you saying stuff like that" Jon joked. Robb stuck his middle finger up at him in return. Catelyn had sent more correspondence with Robb, urging him to put his name forward to compete. It was all so Jon's chances of being chosen were less and less. She didn;t want the bastard child of her husband to be the most successful member of the house.

Not that Jon would think of himself as successful, he just worked hard and Robb... didn't. Robb was capable, but he didn't want to go into the Auror world or the healer world. He always like writing instead, he fancied himself a poet. But that wasn't good enough for Catelyn Stark. "Here we go"

Jon looked up in time to see the big doors swing open, a flurry of sound erupted from the hall as they clapped before they even saw who it was. Blue uniforms filled his eyesight as the clap sounded loudly throughout the room. Jo felt his brain become drawn to a few of the girls who entered... part veelas. He shook his head and focused on the Head Mistress. A woman in a red robe and hood who's blue eyes pierced the room. She had a steely gaze that scoured the room for Headmaster Lannister.

He stood from his seat and walked toward her, a jolly stroll down the middle of the aisles. The Beauxbatons girls and boys stopped as their Head Mistress did so in the middle of the middle aisle. As the two of them approached each other, the clapping ceased. Headmaster Lannister spoke. "Lady Melisandre, so good to see you again"

"Thank you for having us" Her accent purred, Jon could not place it. It was not french. "Such a... quaint school you have here"

Jon side eyed Robb who was holding back a snort. Professor Lannister looked annoyed by her mere presence after that. He ushered her to the teachers table where she took her place next to Professor Marwin, the librarian. He was acting, on first glance, like it was the first time he'd ever been in such close proximity to a woman. However when you looked closer, they were smirking and laughing with each other as if they were already friends. Perhaps they knew each other...

The Beauxbatons students took their place on the table free next to the Ravenclaws just in time for the students of Durmstrang to enter. There was only a small quiet clap this time. People were afraid of Durmstrang, particularly after everything that had been going on that summer and since the attack. People were suspicious of the Durmstrang Headmaster, the steely gaze of Stannis Baratheon was enough to make anyone feel unwell.

How he became headmaster of Durmstrang was a whole drama that involved many people in the room they were sat in. Stannis was the shamed brother of former (and now also shamed) Senior Undersecretary for the Minister Robert Baratheon. He too had been a ministry official but after running an unsuccessful campaign to be minister against the current Minister Tywin, his brother's father in law, beat him by a landslide.

Stannis Baratheon was convinced it was a fix as he'd got a lot of positive response on his campaign tour of britain and did not believe the voted were correctly counted. It was still an unsure system since it was introduced nearing ninety years ago when Minister Grainger first introduced the idea of electing a leader the wizarding public wanted rather than whoever the ministry at the time deemed best.

For the most part it had been a success, and the wizarding public had always chose the smarter option. But this election some three years ago was one in which many people sat down and wondered what went wrong. Stannis Baratheon, led a revolt against the ministry and wanted change in how the votes were counted but was denied. He quit the ministry altogether and left britain to do a job he felt more suited too, controlling unruly teenagers and dealing with school governors rather than high achieving ministry idiots.

This was his first trip back to the uk, Jon found it strange seeing him walk around. And when he spoke to Headmaster Lannister, you could hear a pin drop in the room. "Professor Lannister, how's your father?"

Professor Lannister's eyes narrowed, Jon wondered if he was trying to figure out what game Stannis was playing. Robb was even quiet now, everyone's eyes were on the exchange between this man. "Still minister, and doing a good job might I add"

If Jon had been sipping his water he may have spat it all out. He'd never heard Professor Lannister talk about his father in a positive way before, or even in a way to help him have the high ground in a conversation. Stannis looked surprised at the bluntness. He managed to compose himself before replying. "Good, I'd hate for this country to be falling apart as soon as I leave"

The durmstrang students took their seats on the table next to Jon's then and Professor Lannister stood up to the owl stand at the front. "Welcome one and all, to those of you who have never been here before, we are Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry and it is my pleasure to announce that tomorrow night, we'll be picking the names of our three champions"

There was a small applause. The cup was unveiled once again, even though the Hogwarts students had already seen it.

"You have until six pm tomorrow to enter your name into the cup, in which after dinner, three students will be chosen at random. They will compete in three thrilling tasks and at the end of the school year, the winner will be crowned as such and win a promised one thousand and five hundred galleons" There was a sharp intake of breath, it was a lot of money. Even Jon was salivating at the thought of this money. "The first task will be on November the twenty seventh, and it will be being broadcasted across all radio stations"

There was more announces to follow including a horrible rendition of Hoggy-warty Hogwarts sung by the choir and the sorting hat to get through before dinner turned up on the tables. There was a mixed array of different food thing time, seafood and cheeses for those from beauxbatons and meat and spices for those from durmstrang. Jon decided he needed to try some of the other stuff and while not liking much of it, there was a few fish dishes he was particularly keen of.

Then before he knew it, the welcome feast was over and he, Theon and Robb were waiting for Daenerys by the front courtyard to begin patrol in their groups of four. She showed up after a few minutes and before he knew it he was freezing his bum off as he patrolled the edge of the forbidden forest with them.

"Jesus it's fucking cold" Theon mumbled as he had his scarf right up to just under his eyes. Daenery rolled her eyes but didn't say anything, Robb did though.

"Stop being a fucking wuss!"

"Well I'm sorry we're not all built like trains, I feel the cold, sorry!" Theon retorted.

Jon rolled his eyes and started marching ahead of them as they argued. Daenerys was wandering on her own and Jon was unsure if he should approach her or not. Do it, he urged himself. He sped up and walked side by side with her, she didn't say anything to warn him away. He held his wand in his hand as they checked all the hiding places Jon knew about while they walked. He looked like an idiot looking under rocks, but he couldn't remember which one covered a ditch you could hide in. Dany was about to say something to him until he hit jackpot and saw two first years hiding in the ditch, no, making out was more correct.

"Come on guys, back to your dorms" Jon raised an eyebrow. "Hufflepuff, should've known better than to be wandering the castle grounds at night"

"Ten points from Hufflepuff" Daenerys snapped. "And another ten for breaking the rules of fornication on school premises!"

"Daenerys..." Jon said confused. "Wait what?"

"Don't you read the school handbook?" She reminded him.

"We have a school handbook?" He was utterly confused.

"Jesus you amaze me sometimes" She said rolling her eyes. She sent the first years on their way, embarrassed and mortified. "Would it hurt you to read? No sexual activity on school premises"

"I hardly think kissing is classed as sexual activity" He laughed. She just scowled at him. He sighed. "But then what do I know, I've only broken that rule twelve times instead of once if we go with you standard instead of mine - guess ten points off of Gryffindor is needed then"

"For each offence" Dany demanded.

"Oh come on Daenerys, you surely have to have kissed someone at school" Jon asked laughingly as they turned back towards the school after checking the area. Her small smile dropped from her face completely and her cheeks went red. She hid her face from him but Jon knew he'd hit a sensitive topic. "Well besides me in the herbology greenhouse, but that doesn't count"

"Then no" She muttered shyly.

Oh.

#jon snow #daenerys targaryen #jon x daenerys #jon x dany #jon x dany fanfic #jonerys #jonerys fanfic #au #Hogwarts AU #got #game of thrones

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nyangibun · 7 years

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GoT S07E02 Thoughts

I am up at 2 in the morning for this shit and I don’t know how I feel about this episode. There was a lot happening and a lot not happening. But as always, here are my rambling, harebrained thoughts about the episode that may or may not make any sense whatsoever to anyone but me. Either way, here we go:

The scene with Dany and Varys continues to toe the line between Benevolent Hero Dany and Violent Conqueror Dany. I have never doubted Dany’s ability to care for the common folk. She is not an evil person; she has compassion for them, that’s always been clear from the start, but the question has always been, will her compassion win out over her desire for power? And this grey area feels really poignant in this scene with Varys when she’s pardoning him for once siding with another king who had tried to assassinate her.

While it looks like she’s showing him a great deal of compassion and demonstrating her desire to be loved by the people and bring peace to Westeros, I feel the conversation is actually quite foreboding. He’s already been by her side for awhile, so why was this conversation happening now? They could’ve easily cut this entire scene away and left us to continue assuming that Dany pardoned Varys when he arrived with Tyrion, but they chose to highlight it and have Varys give his whole speech about not caring who was king or queen of the Iron Throne and that his loyalty was to the people. This is important, as are these lines:

“If you ever think I’m failing the people, you won’t conspire behind my back... If you ever betray me, I’ll burn you alive.”

Once again, Dany threatens people for their loyalty. In contrast, the previous episode when Jon Snow pardons Alys Karstark and Ned Umber for the crimes of their house, he says:

“For centuries, our families fought side by side on the battlefield. I ask you to pledge your loyalty once again to House Stark, to serve as our bannermen and come to our air whenever called upon... Yesterday's wars don't matter anymore. The North needs to band together, all the living north. Will you stand beside me, Ned and Alys, now and always?”

The difference between them is quite clear. One demands loyalty, while the other asks for it.

And the focus of this scene with Dany and Varys being on how the people of Westerosi will receive her feels greatly foreboding and not in the good way for her. This scene was shot and chosen for a reason; this dialogue was written for a reason. And nothing in Game of Thrones is so black and white as this scene’s purpose only being highlighting how good and forgiving Dany is.

Anyway, I know people will call me biased for reading the scene this way and perhaps I am, as I still believe Dany’s narrative is of a fallen hero, but these are just my thoughts anyhow.

Moving on!

What was interesting to me in the scene with Melisandre was how Dany’s face lit up when she thought the prophecy might be about her. Oh, and the line:

“The prophecy belongs to me.”

Loosely translated to mean that the Seven Kingdoms belong to her. These people and their love belong to her. She is the one who was promised because it’s her destiny, her birthright. In direct contrast again, Jon reiterates in the same episode that he was chosen as their king, but he didn’t want it and he didn’t ask for it.

The way Jon and Dany rule and see the world are literary foils of one another. And I feel like as the season progresses, the more this will become apparent. I also don’t like the implication of Jon bending the knee to Dany or to anyone, but we’ll see.

Now back to Winterfell. The shot of children having archery practice while Jon and Sansa are atop watching over them is, as has been mentioned before, almost a direct parallel to Ned and Catelyn overlooking Bran’s archery lessons in Season 1. Like I’ve always said, nothing in this show is shot without a purpose, and it’s not the first time parallels between the two have surfaced. Whether it just means they’re supposed to be a formidable co-ruling pair in the North or a future marriage/romance between the two down the line still remains to be seen, but we all know what basket I’m placing my eggs. Both. The answer is both.

Still, I really love the way Jon looks immediately to Sansa for her opinion on what to do with Tyrion’s request for him to come to Dragonstone. Considering last week’s episode, this is a good sign they’re learning to communicate better, and I think it’s also telling how he’s asking her for her opinion on Tyrion because as he says, she knows him better than anyone, when last week he was dismissing her despite her firsthand knowledge of Cersei. It’s growth.

And actually I’m not going to go chronologically by scene now, so I’m going to skip ahead and address the moment in the Great Hall. When Jon says he’s going to accept Tyrion’s request to come to Dragonstone, he looks back to Sansa – yet another sign of him seeking her approval and support. But it’s more than that. The whole scene I kept noticing that even when Sansa wasn’t directly in focus and when Jon wasn’t looking at her, the shots of him more often than not had her in the background to his side. All of this really made them resemble a king and queen. This is only further emphasised by the following moment:

“I’m leaving both [the people and Winterfell] in good hands.”

“Whose?”

“Yours. You are my sister. You’re the only Stark in Winterfell. Until I return, the North is yours.”

Sansa may not be by name, but she is his queen. I don’t even mean that romantically. Jon sees her as his equal partner with equal right to the kingdom (so to speak) as he does. She is his most trusted confidante. This is such an incredibly significant moment in their relationship. While Sansa’s learned to trust him fully, Jon struggled with reconciling the woman she has become and the girl he once knew, but this feels like a momentous step forward as it clearly shows he’s accepted the woman she is now and that person is someone he trusts.

I also think Sansa’s immediate glance to Littlefinger is also important. She knows it as well. She is exactly where Littlefinger wants her, as the ruler of the North, as a queen, and we all know he wants to be her king. Sansa’s concern is therefore rightly placed. She may know what he’s up to, but he is still Littlefinger and as cunning as he is creepy. The question is, will she be able to outplay him? He is her proverbial beast to slay.

Now onto my favourite scene: Jon choking out Littlefinger. I actually had to edit this back into this post because I wrote it on a different document and forgot to place it back in, but here we are. Look, this scene is everything. We don’t get a farewell scene between Jon and Sansa beside from Jon’s little awkward wave towards her and her wave back, which is, by the way, so adorable. I know we were hoping for a Weirwood scene (and #treebang) but considering how tentative their newfound relationship is, this fits. Awkward, adorable and completely filled with unspoken words. That’s Jon and Sansa right now. It makes sense, as much as I hate it.

But instead of that, we get this scene:

““I love Sansa as I loved her mother.”

“Talk to my sister and I’ll kill you myself!”

The instantaneous primal reaction is just so fascinating to me. Jon completely loses his cool the second Littlefinger says he loves Sansa. He’s been fairly restrained up until that point. Such an instant reaction requires zero thought; it’s based purely on feelings and it’s evident Jon feels a primal and fierce need to protect Sansa. I don’t doubt he’d feel that way about Arya or Bran too, but there’s something so underlying about framing his fierce protectiveness over her after Littlefinger confesses he loves Sansa.

Take it what you will, but I got my shipping goggles on for this scene and I love it!

Back to the rest of the story, we’re given a scene of Cersei decrying all that Dany’s done. She talks about the murders and burning of those masters, trying to appeal to the Lords over how cruel and savage Dany is, which we all know is quite ironic considering she burned down an entire septa of people out of vengeance. Perhaps there’s a reason why we’re being led by this scene to compare Dany and Cersei’s actions.

Either way, the reappearance of Randyll Tarly makes me extremely nervous. There have been quite a few speculations going around about how the Tarly will play a role in the upcoming season, or more specifically, how Dany’s dragons are going to end up killing all of the Tarly’s, including Sam’s mother and sister. Randyll’s appearance here and his subsequent scene with Jaime about where to place his allegiance seems to support this theory. The death of the Tarly’s will put Jon in a very precarious situation, especially if he bends the knee to Dany, which is a plot line I hate and loathe as it is so completely uncharacteristic for Jon – yet for the greater good, I could also see it happening as Jon is the most self-sacrificing numpty in Westeros.

Speaking of Sam, I really hope he doesn’t die from treating Jorah. And also, why in the gods’ name do they keep giving Sam the most disgusting scenes? Seriously, that was so gross. I am curious though as to what role Jorah is supposed to play in the future and whether his being cured by Sam will have any significance, especially if he runs along back to Dany and she orders the kill on Sam’s family.

Missandei and Grey Worm!!!

Look, I know people are going to dismiss this entire scene altogether and say it was a waste of time because no one cares about these two, but you’re so wrong. I care. Maybe I’m one person out of a million, but fuck it, I care so much. There has to be a reason that recent seasons have started to flesh out Missandei and Grey Worm more and not just as characters who are unfailingly loyal to Dany, but as individual people. It’s been a subplot that’s been building for a long while and I don’t see why they would waste the precious time on a subplot for the sake of having some ‘romance’ between two of Dany’s most loyal subjects. What’s the payoff for that?

I personally doubt they’re both going to survive this upcoming war and I think the loss will either drive a huge wedge between Dany and the surviving character or cause reckless behaviour that will turn a significant plot a different way. Either way, I think there has to be a payoff for building them up for so long. Or maybe it is just some silly romance made to satisfy the audience who are so the type to want romance in their show.

Finally onto Arya! What can I say but YES SHE’S FINALLY HEADING BACK TO WINTERFELL!!! I was so worried for her going to King’s Landing just as the war was about to begin, especially if Euron is around. I couldn’t imagine her surviving if she did, but with Arya heading back home, I feel more at ease that she’ll survive the season for some time yet. But what killed me was her reunion with Nymeria. I practically squealed with joy then cried when Nymeria walked away, but what confused me was Arya saying “that’s not you” with a (if I’m not mistaken) smile on her lips. That was Nymeria, wasn’t it? And does she mean that Nymeria is not her pack, signifying Arya’s final journey back to her real pack (ie. the other Starks)?

Also, can we please appreciate Arya and Hot Pie together again? I love that whole conversation about how she’d been baking. Made me chortle.

Lastly, we have to talk about that final scene and my screaming thought of ‘what the fuck, Theon?’ because WTF THEON! I don’t know how to feel about that. On the one hand, as soon as I saw Euron attacking I knew he’d win, and considering how his actor said he’d make Ramsay look like child’s play, I was so worried for Theon and am glad he got away. But him abandoning his sister like that? It was so disheartening and sad to see. After how he helped save Sansa, I honestly thought he found that piece of himself again, but then it is a very unfair thing to say about a man who has been repeatedly tortured and abused. Although the Theon before Ramsay was a coward, so I don’t know. I just don’t know where his storyline will go from here on out.

But speaking of Euron, I just knew his gifts to Cersei would be people and I am so bloody worried about Yara, Ellaria and the last remaining Sand Snake. I hate how weak the show continues to make them look and I hate that we’re about to witness more brutality done upon women on this damn hell show. I couldn’t stomach Ramsay with Sansa and I really doubt I’ll be able to stomach the upcoming scenes with Euron and these women.

Anyway, these are my thoughts. So sorry it’s so unbelievably long and rambly. What did you guys think?

#jonsa #game of thrones #got s7 #jon snow #sansa stark #euron greyjoy #theon greyjoy #samwell tarly #game of thrones season 7 #got s7e02 #got s7 thoughts #gotspoilers #spoilers #long post

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christabellanikolai · 7 years

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The Untitled: Chapter 6

After Daenerys mourns her losses she may have to face the consequences of her previous actions.

Also available on [Wattpad] [AO3]

<– Previous Chapter

Sitting inside his chambers Jon could see the snowfall from where he sat on his bed. He found movement hard as he prepared for sleep. Removing his armor and shirt had been painful, and had taken longer than usual. Once they were off, he looked down at the bandages at his sides, noticing that the lacerations he received from falling were already scarring. Another mark, another reminder of everything he had been through, a reminder he really did not want. His thoughts were interrupted when his door opened and he found Daenerys staring at him.

Daenerys needed to find him, to be near him tonight. Men had always told her they would protect her, but none of them had ever made it as known. Not like Jon had, the only who could compare to him was her late husband Drogo. She had not even bothered to knock when she arrived at his chamber. There she found him shirtless sitting on his bed, examining his scars. The same scars she first saw when he had arrived in Eastwatch.

When Jon rose to his feet she stepped forward to stand front of him. She reached her fingers out trace each scar with her hand. He stood there unmoving as she examined each one, the gentle caress of her fingers soothing his rough skin. When she reached for the one that rested on his heart she remembered what Davos had told, what everyone including Jon himself, dismissed as nonsense. Tears welled in her eyes and she whispered, “What happened to you?”

He grabbed the hand that had been tracing the scar and shook his head. He wasn’t ready to go back to that night yet. She continued to look at him, silent and unmoving. Both of them already lost in each other’s gaze. When he saw that she still cried he brought his hand to her cheek, gently wiping the tears as they fell. “No, I am still here.” He whispered to her.

His touch, his kindness, everything in that moment caused her defenses to finally crumble. She reached up to draw him told her. Closing the gap between their lips, caressing her mouth to his. She heard herself give a weak gasp as he opens his mouth to hers, drinking her in. He placed one arm around her waist while the other ran through her hair, untangling her braids. His touch sending sparks down her spine. She rested her hand once again on his chest, while the other went to wrap around him, trying to bring him closer.

As they kissed through a new feeling invaded her bliss. It was one of dread and pure guilt. She shouldn't be happy, not right now. She remembered that her armies were gone; thousands had died because of her failures. Her child was gone; she would never see three dragons in the sky again. The man she currently held had fallen and almost died, she had been unable to save him. All of her thoughts became too much and she once again began to cry. The pain of what she had been through falling on her shoulders all at once. She would have fallen to the ground if Jon had not caught her.

He didn't say a word; instead, he continued to hold her. Guiding her to the bed he cradled her head to his chest. He allowed her to mourn her losses, providing her with simple comfort. Wrapping both of them in the furs he once again wrapped his arms around her. She felt him providing a safety net to let go, to feel the sadness of all that had happened. Wrapped in his arms, surrounded by his warmth, she found her shelter.

The next morning Daenerys awoke as the sun was starting to rise. Her head still lying on Jon’s chest, he still held her. They had fallen asleep together, in each other’s arms the night before. She looked up at his face as he slept, the rays of light illuminating his features. She had not felt this way about another in a long time, not since her first husband. He was different though, the way he cared for her was not like any man she had ever been with. She now knew without a doubt that she was in love with the King in the North.

He slowly began to stir; she lifted her head to bring to the smallest of kisses to his jawline. He smiled before his eyes fluttered open. As he looked down at her he returned her kiss before speaking "Good morning my Queen."

“Good morning my King.”

Later that day Daenerys sat at the training grounds trying to make it through another session with Brienne and Arya. The time she had spent with Jon had lit a spark inside her, giving her the strength to train harder. Arya had been ruthless though, and in a few hours, she was already being pushed to her limits. As she sat on a bench trying to catch her breath a leather bottle of water was handed to her. She turned to find that it was Sansa offering it to her. "Here," the redhead said. "You look like you could use this."

“Thanks.” Said Daenerys taking a sip from the bottle. “I really did.”

“Your Grace I must apologize," Sansa said as she sat next to Daenerys on the bench. “I have been cold to you since you arrived at Winterfell.”

“There is no need to apologize.” Said Daenerys as she took another sip of the water. “I understand that my families past might cloud the judgment the people of Westeros have about me.”

“But Jon is right, you shouldn’t be judged based on what they have done.”

“That is my goal, show people I am not my Father or my Brothers.”

“I do wish you nothing but luck with that.” Said Sansa, both women smiled, knowing how hard that was truly going to be. “Also I hope you continue to support the North in our war.” Sansa rose to her feet, before she headed back to get to work in her chambers she turned once again turned back to Daenerys. "Also thank you, Your Grace, for bringing my brother home.”

“Are you in love with her?” asked Arya as she walked into the main hall. There she found Jon and Davos sitting at the main table, looking over documents. Jon put down the raven he was about to un-roll and looked right out her. “Are you?” she asked as she pulled a chair to sit across from him.

“Daenerys?” said Jon, smiling at his little sister’s boldness. While a lot had changed with her, some things remained the same. “What gave you that idea?” He could see Davos smirking from the corner of his eyes. He shot him a look that immediately made the Onion Knight change his demeanor.

“I saw you.” Said Arya “Down in the cells, you were holding her hand.”

“I saw it to Your Grace.” Said Davos “Tormund did as well, he promised to keep it to himself though.”

"Well that is good but there is nothing going on," Jon said firmly.

“There are other things,” said Arya, cutting off her brother. “The way you look at her, how you protect her. The night she was attacked you even called her ‘Dany’.”

Jon was left speechless; he had not realized he had let that slip. While he had been so concerned for her he must have let his guard down. He wondered whom else in that room had noticed. “Arya… it’s complicated and I ask that you please do not speak a word of this.”

“You could marry her you know.” Said Arya “If she has so much of a claim to the throne it would be a good thing for the North, right?”

“Aye, you are right Arya.” Said Davos looking toward Jon. “The best alliances are the ones sealed by marriage.”

“I am not going to discuss this right now.” Said Jon returning to his work. “We need to prepare for the Night King.”

“Sometimes I think he uses the Night King as a deflection method.” Joked Davos, Arya laughing.

Jon held up his hand shushing both of them. His demeanor changing from light-hearted to serious as he read his raven scroll. "Arya, where is Daenerys?” he asked as he stood.

“Still on the training grounds with Brienne, why?”

“Excuse me.” He said walking past her, still holding the note. Davos and Arya quickly followed him. Once outside they found Daenerys, she to also had a scroll in her hand. "You got one too?" Jon asked.

“Yes.” Said Daenerys looking as serious as Jon, she handed him her note.

Arya grabbed Jon’s note out of his hand, reading it along with Davos they found what had stunned both the King and Queen. Cersei had written them both, informing them that she had rescinded her offer for a parlay unless Jon and Daenerys were both there. It also stated that she had sent the group back to Dragonstone with the wight.

“We have to go.” Said Daenerys, Jon nodded in agreement.

“Your grace, you still have not fully recovered from the excursion.” Said Davos “Traveling now may be too dangerous.”

“Davos I have to go, this has to be done.” Said Jon “Now prepare to ride for Kings Landing in the morning.”

“But your grace…”

“One of her children died for this!” said Jon pointing toward Daenerys “We are doing this, now get ready!”

Jon started heading toward his chambers, Daenerys not far behind him. As they made their way across the courtyard Jon stopped when he heard a familiar voice at the gate. “Please if you would just send for the King he can tell you who I am.”

“Sam?” he asked, stunned to see his friend and his family after such a long time. The larger man looked at Jon, a large smile lighting up his round face.

“Jon!” shouted Sam as he tried to come into the gate but the guards stopped him, saying something about referring to Jon as the King. Jon pushed past them approaching his longtime friend

“Seven Hells! I didn’t think I would see you again Sam!” said Jon hugging the man. “What are you doing here?”

“Jon I couldn’t stay there any longer.” Said Sam referring to the Citadel. “I know I promised to return a Maester but…”

“Aye Sam, do not worry about it," Jon said smiling. "Maester or not there is a place for you and your family in Winterfell.”

He went to hug Gilly and said hello to little Sam who rested on his mother’s hip. He then motioned for his guards to help Gilly and little Sam inside, telling them to find Sansa so she could help get them settled in one of the available quarters. Jon then led Sam toward the dining hall so the two could begin catching up.

“So the Maesters in the Citadel do not believe in the threat?” asked Jon, as the two sat at a table drinking ale. They had been talking for well over two hours, Sam mostly informing Jon of everything that had happened to him since he left Castle Black.

"No, they believe either Maester Wolkan has gone mad from the cold or Daenerys Targaryen made it up to lay claim to Kings Landing. I tried to convince them but they wouldn’t listen to me. I wanted to become a Maester to help you in this war, but since they wouldn't, believe me, I had to go."

"Do not worry about it anymore Sam." Said Jon taking another drink. "I will have a raven sent to the Citadel, they can come to Kings Landing to see for themselves that the threat is real."

“So…” said Sam changing the subject. “I still haven’t quite figured out how you went from Lord Commander to King in the North? I also hear Edd now has Castle Black?”

"It's a long story, Sam. One I would prefer not to tell you tonight.” Said Jon. The doors of the hall opened and both men turned around to find Daenerys enter, Brienne not far behind her. Jon rose to his feet, approaching her seeming concerned “Is everything alright?” he asked.

“Yes I just wanted to let you know your sisters, Davos, and I have made all the arrangements to leave tomorrow morning.” She said.

“Thank you.” said Jon “Why don’t you two join us for dinner?” he motioned for both of the women to sit at the table. “Gilly and my sisters should be here any minute as well.”

“Daenerys this is Sam, we were both brothers of the Nights Watch, trained together at Castle Black.” Said Jon as she sat at the table, pouring her some ale. Before Daenerys could respond or Jon could continue Sam looked at her, eyes widen in shock.

“You’re Daenerys Targaryen?” shocked that the Dragon Queen was now sitting right near him. “What are you doing here?”

“Helping Jon of course.” Said Daenerys smiling at the man’s candor. She took a sip of the ale, finding the drink hard to swallow. She made a face and both men laughed, even Brienne could not hold back a chuckle. “No it’s fine really, I am just not used to such a strong taste.”

“Maybe I can find you some wine.” Said Jon heading toward the kitchens.

"I am sorry Your Grace." Said Sam holding out his hand. "I never properly introduced myself. "My name is Sam, Samwell Tarly.”

Daenerys froze, doing her best she tried to hide her emotion. She rose to her feet, excusing herself from the table and immediately she went looking for Jon. She found him in one of the wine cellars of the kitchen. “He is a Tarly?” she said.

Jon turned to her, and when she saw that he had no idea what she was concerned about, she continued "Two members of House Tarly died while fighting me at High Garden. He couldn’t be could he…?”

Jon stopped, placing a bottle of wine back on the shelf. He had forgotten all about what happened when she had attacked the Loot Train and how Sam’s father had chosen to side with the Lannisters. “Aye he is, he told me that was his Father at the Wall.”

“Do you think he knows?” she asked.

“If not let me be the one to tell him, okay?” said Jon shutting the gate to the cellar. “We have been through a lot together. It would be better coming from me.”

The two walked back toward the dining hall. Both were prepared for what was to be a light-hearted evening, to turn into something darker. As they approached the entrance they heard Gilly say, “Daenerys Targaryen, isn’t she the one they said your Father and Brother died fighting?”

Both rulers stopped, shocked and not prepared for what to say next. Jon finally broke the silence. “Sam I…”

“Please,” said Sam, cutting him off and rising to his feet. He turned to Daenerys, who remained silent. “My Father was not a good man. Why he even betrayed the Tyrells I do not know. I do know he cared more about personal gains then loyalty. I wish to no longer discuss him tonight. For one night can we just forget that the world may be coming to an end around us?"

Everyone agreed with Sam and the rest of the night went on, each one of them at the table finding temporary escape from the weights of the world. For one night they did forget what waited for them outside. Each of them wishing this night would go on forever.

The next morning Arya arrived at the training grounds, hoping to get some sparring in with Brienne before it was time to see Jon and the rest of the group off. She was told by Brienne to instead go to an unused stable on the other side of the property. Confused she followed Brienne to the building, stepping inside she found it to be empty. She turned around to ask the blonde what was going on but when she did she found Jon standing there.

"Well, let's see what you can do." Said Jon, unsheathing his sword.

Arya’s face lit up with a smile. When she was younger the one thing she had always wanted to do was spar with her older brothers. Her Mother and Father had always forbidden her, saying it was not something becoming of a lady. Now though it was happening, and she couldn’t be happier that it was with Jon. She unsheathed needle from her hip before approaching him.

They continued to spar for well over an hour, each time finding themselves equally matched. Arya noted though that Jon seemed to be holding back. She hoped it was because of his injury and not due to the fact he was worried about hurting her. When it was over they both were dropped to their knee, swords crossed and pointed to one another. Both wore a smile, feeling happier than they had in a long time.

Both of them rose to their feet, dropping their swords. Arya hopped up, throwing her arms around her brother’s neck and shoulders. He held her, just like he had when he left for the wall all those years ago. She had to admit that this was the one thing she had wanted since she returned to Winterfell.

“Promise me you will come home soon.” She said. “and in one piece this time.”

He smiled and laughed, bringing her closer and mussing her hair. “I promise.”

Next Chapter --->

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