#I don't see him as anti destiel or anti romantic love for Dean | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

castiel-left-his-mark-on-me · 2 years

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I know a million people have already shared their opinions and thoughts on Jensen’s “brother” comment in regards to the confession, so this may be nothing new; but I can’t stop thinking about it so I wanted to write it down.

One of the main reasons I love (and kept watching) SPN over the years was because of Dean’s character-growth. He is just so human—and that is a testament to both Jensen’s acting, as well as Jensen’s age when he started playing Dean.

For fifteen years, we got to observe all those micro and macro changes within Dean’s character; much like a parent watching their child grow up. We noticed how Dean’s face changed, how his voice and confidence and openness morphed and grew … but we also got to see all the ways he stayed the same. We got to see his habits resurface again and again; and we got to see him make the same mistakes over and over. And even though it was frustrating to watch at times … it was also very, very human. It was natural. It felt real … and I think that was both intentional and unintentional on Jensen’s part.

But just like how our growing child can’t see all these changes within themselves, I don’t think Jensen can see them all within Dean—not like how we can. He’s too close; but that doesn’t mean he hasn’t psychoanalyzed Dean Winchester.

I think it’s become obvious in the last couple of years just how much Jensen has thought about Dean’s thought process, both individually as well as in the SPN canon—and he thinks of Dean as a real person. His answer at VanCon proves that. Like @pray4jensen said: it’s clear that Jensen doesn’t know where he ends and Dean begins. And how could he know? He started playing/shaping Dean in his late twenties; and science has proven that most people’s brains are still malleable at that age. He then went on to grow with that character well into adulthood—through all the formidable and pivotal moments in his own life … marriage, fatherhood, life and death. Dean IS part of him. He wasn’t just an “act” to Jensen. So much of his own development couldn’t help but sneak into Dean’s mannerisms, which made Dean feel very, very real on screen.

Think of it this way … so many of us have had difficult/complicated pasts. We have had to code-switch all our lives. There’s a version of yourself that you have to display in certain company and in certain environments; and sometimes, that version pops up without warning—when triggered by something familiar or traumatic.

Now, I’m not saying that playing Dean was a “trauma” for Jensen (at least—I hope it wasn’t), I’m just saying that we’ve all had experience playing a role in our lives; and even though we know that it’s just a role, we still think of it as a version of ourselves. We still feel like we’re just a moment away from reverting back to that person. But can you define all the qualities of that other version of you? Can you explain—in detail, just how and when and why that version pops up? No.

You can identify some things, sure, but not all. That’s why we seek out therapy. We need an outside perspective to help us find a way to bridge these versions of ourselves and make them whole again.

This is just human nature. It’s human psychology.

Dean Winchester is a version of Jensen. He is a real part of Jensen’s life. So, when Jensen answers on Dean’s behalf, he can’t help but put himself directly into that character’s boots—exactly where they stand, here and now.

And if we flash back to that confession—Jensen knows that Dean Winchester would not have been able to comprehend all the ways Castiel meant “I love you” because Jensen was Dean in that moment. And after Cas was taken, Dean still wouldn’t have been able to understand, because all the love he has ever known in his life—all the true, dependable, reliable love, has come along with the fight. Jensen knows—because he lived it all with Dean, that any love his character felt was a direct result of his battles to save the world. Sam, Benny, Mary, Charlie, Kevin, and on and on … all of them of course cared for Dean—Dean knew that, but since the constant fighting framed every one of those relationships, he couldn’t help but view them all the same way: as soldiers, fighters, products of war. They were family, yes ... but they were all still soldiers. Even those he tried to keep out of the war, Dean still knew the reality was … they had to fight in order to stay alive. That was just the way it was. That was the way of the love Dean felt. Any kind of love beyond that was impossible, because war would inevitably take it away too. That’s why he ended things with Cassie and Lisa. That’s why he only ever pursued shallow flings and one-night stands. And that’s why, when he saw hunters who actually maintained romantic relationships—he always stared at them in wide-eyed-wonder.

Out of all the impossible things Dean had witnessed in his life, that was the one that consistently shocked him.

Hunters … in love and happy.

It felt unreal, even though it was right there in front of his eyes.

He couldn’t understand it. So, even though it apparently was possible for others, he never believed it was possible for him. It had nothing to do with sex … sex wasn’t a part of love for Dean. Sex was just a physical movement, like fighting and eating. It kept his body alive and moving forward. This impossible love he saw others maintaining … it had everything to do with heart; and for nearly fifteen years, Dean believed his heart was worthless.

It wasn’t until an angel stood in front of him on the brink of death and said: Dean, you are not a weapon to be wielded. You are beautiful. You are a man full of love who deserves to be loved, and I love you, that Dean thought any different.

It wasn’t until he heard Castiel say Dean was more than just a soldier, that Dean actually started to believe it. But that realization was still a long way off from what Castiel was actually telling him.

And Castiel knew that Dean wouldn’t understand—he knew that Dean wouldn’t be able to fully grasp his words and take them to heart; but he hoped that if he at least said them out loud … if he said them to Dean’s face and saved the man’s life, that Dean would go on to live and grow; and then someday, he would see that someone did actually love him once. Cas truly loved him—not because Dean could protect him in a fight. Not because he was a good hunter or the savior of the world, but because Dean was Dean, and that was enough.

And you know, if Dean got to live to 100, he just might’ve realized that; but he didn’t. He died too soon. And so, he never got to truly grasp what his angel was saying, and I feel like that’s what Jensen understands about Dean the most.

He understands that Dean never got the chance to understand love.

Not in that way. Not in the way Castiel meant it.

Dean was still too naive, too broken, too jaded; so, he did what all humans do, he put the complex into terms he could understand, and that was that Castiel loved him the way that Sam loved him. The way that Benny and Charlie and Kevin loved him, the way that all his found-family love him; and after Cas was gone, he buried his face into his hands and wept because once again, he failed to protect his family. And even worse, he failed to at least let Castiel go knowing that Dean loved him too—in the only way he knows how to love, he was too broken to say even that.

He let Castiel down in every way possible, so he curled into himself and sobbed.

He should have said it back.

He should have held the angel close and said it back.

Dean realized it too late, and Jensen knows how much that hurt him.

It wasn’t about sex.

It wasn’t about romance.

It was about love and loss, and Dean was all too familiar with both—but only in the ways he had seen all his life.

The love of family and the loss of family.

He never had the chance for more.

He never got to see what else his own heart was capable of.

That’s what I feel Jensen meant with that answer, and that’s what I think he understands the most about Dean's character. We may be able to see the bigger picture because we're on the outside looking in; but Jensen was in Dean’s boots every day for fifteen years.

All he could ever see was what was right in front of him—and when Castiel made that confession, Jensen could only see it through Dean's eyes. He could only feel what Dean felt. He knows that when Castiel said those words to him, that was his best and truest friend in the world saying goodbye.

Another brother-in-arms was lost to him; but this time, it felt different. It hurt more, and if Dean just had a little more time—he would've been able to understand why.

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what-do-1000-swords-look-like · 8 months

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*logs in and sees even more anti-destiel posts*

Must be a day ending in Y.

Here's the thing: ship what you want, don't ship, whatever. That's your right. You also can have opinions on said ships or not shipping something. But for the love of God, can we please stop misrepresenting supposed facts and outright lying? Just because you don't want to acknowledge something present in the show? Or because one of you is super obsessed with Jensen while at the same time hating him because he married someone else and didn't come to sweep you off of your feet because you're his supposed soulmate? (which btw, while very weird in general, what does that even have to do with destiel? why are you even weighing in when it's clear that you're only saying what YOU believe while trying to speak for him as if you two are a single unit? It's creepy and makes no sense. Keep your obsession in check, please)

Alright, let's get started:

1) Jensen's actual words:

Firstly, if you're going to quote someone and state their opinion on the matter as FACT, let's not only get the source right but also list it so people can see what the person had to say for themselves so they can not only get the actual facts but come to their own conclusions (critical thinking, remember?). It's literally a link you can put into the post from YouTube, it's not rocket science last I checked.

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29:35 is where it starts

A woman asks when did Jensen know about Cas' "romantic, deep love" for Dean before 15x18. Meaning when he did know bts as an actor.

Jensen's answer: "I don't think Dean ever really knew until the very end there." -- not only does he not answer the question in its original form (and hey, it's a con, it's loud, tons of people there waiting for his answer, he probably wasn't prepared for this question, etc - so I get it, I'm not criticizing him, I'm just stating facts), he responds initially for Dean, not himself.

But in this initial answer, he even acknowledges what the woman just said. "Romantic, deep love" -> "I don't think Dean ever really knew until the very end there." LITERALLY RIGHT THERE - Dean didn't know it until it was said

No matter what comes after this from him, Jared, or even what Jensen has said at cons afterwards, his answer literally confirms what she just said, and that answer is what popped first into his mind.

Then, prepare to have your mind blown antis, he confirms it AGAIN: "In fact, I know he didn't, because I didn't play that." -> he played Dean as not knowing about Cas' "romantic, deep love"

Only then does he start to delve into talking about the term romantic with Jared interrupting. But he confirmed it TWICE with his own words. That doesn't nullify his opinion or his perspective on the relationship, but it does confirm that was the intention of the scene.

And again, the question was about when they knew bts about Cas' "romantic, deep love" for Dean, not what Dean felt, not what type of love Jensen considers it to be (or Jared), not whether romance was meant to be in the show or not. Through his own words, he confirms it. Twice. (watch it again)

2) Types of love:

I can't believe this is even a point some people have tried to make in attempting to invalidate the scene from 15x18 but it's 2023 and here we are.

Philia love is platonic/friendly love. (click on the links - since it was mentioned that Cas only has angelic/heavenly/brotherly love for Dean and Castiel's angel character is loosely based on Christian traditions, I chose the same Christian perspective in these links) Storge love is the love of family or brotherly love.

Agape love is NOT brotherly love. (if you're going to use these terms and claim you're an expert, perhaps learn what they mean first?) Agape love is a God-like love of humans, completely unfathomable.

All of this is easily searchable. Google is your friend.

Now agape is the closest to what Jensen says later in that panel (though it changes to philia mixed with storge in a later con) though he did not use that specific term. However:

The scene was written and performed with romantic intentions from Castiel's side. This is confirmed time and time again.

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And since a lot of anti-Destielers tend to be anti Misha as well (and accuse him of placating, lying, and being downright manipulative when it comes to this topic), here are some other confirmations:

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The script is available online (again, Google is your friend) and you can read it for yourself. Robert Berens, the screenwriter, wrote the script (and it was greenlit by Andrew Dabb, the showrunner, and kept in the episode with the network, Singer, and WB giving it the green light after reviewing it before it aired) with Castiel's confessing his romantic love for Dean. It's right there.

If it's not romantic, then why can't Dean "recriprocate"? Why is he shocked at the "declaration from his best friend"? Why is it Cas' "hidden truth"? If it's just platonic from Cas' side or familial or even a God-like love of a human then why all of these factors mentioned in the script to help guide Jensen and Misha in performing the scene? You know why. And one of these antis is the supposed acting expert in the fandom? Puhlease.

How's that for "script analysis"?

Not to mention, since it's clear these same antis don't know a thing about writing and how it actually works, why was this scene a part of Castiel's arc that connects back to his arc in season 15?

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3:49 - "I know who you love"

Yep, they weren't planning the confession back then, but when the showrunner and the writing team did start planning the end of the character's journey going into season 15, this ties up Castiel's arc neatly and it's perfect foreshadowing. Right down to The Empty's involvement. And they tied it up this way why? To make sense with events that came before it so a visible narrative is present for this character's journey as well as showing his development. (that's literally writing 101 btw)

There's a shit ton more I could throw into this post but I think I've made my point. So the next time antis decide to sit there and scold people who ship/celebrate Destiel and tell them that they don't understand "script analysis" like you do or how dare they twist Castiel's love for Dean into something it's not because you're playing megaphone-turned-into-a-wannabe-parrot for Jensen (aka your point of unhealthy fixation) because Castiel only meant it as an angel, perhaps don't. Or at least look up the facts first before you spout off any of that nonsense. You've had no problem saying Jensen needs to take an acting lesson or two because he's basic and dilutes his characters while also having one note acting, so maybe you should take a writing lesson or two. 🤷‍♂️ Seems fair.

Think whatever you want about Dean and how he regards Castiel's romantic confession, or how Jensen sees it, or whatever you need to tell yourself since it was left ambiguous, but don't you dare sit there and tell people they're wrong for reading Castiel's love the way it was written, performed, and intended to be perceived -> romantic. Or imply that they lack a basic understanding of love, condescend to them to have to explain it to them as if they're idiots, and falsely accuse them of maliciously twisting your fantasy beloved's Jensen's words. Especially when it's very easily proven that the only ones in the wrong here are you, and this is very clearly a "you" issue.

It happened.

It was romantic.

Get over it.

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kagesdumpsterfire · 3 years

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Listen, I'm not mad as a shipper, I'm used to having shipping questions shut down at cons at this point. It's been like that for years. I explained as much in an earlier post.

I'm mad as a queer person.

I don't hate Jared. I reserve hate for people I know and people I know for a fact are vile little piss ants. I wouldn't even go so far as to call myself an anti. Up until recently I was more of a neutral. Because you see, I watched the show long before I joined the fandom. I was in the fandom a while before I became a shipper. I was a fan of all the actors before joining the fandom. Followed all of them. Then, Jared started posting about service workers. I stopped following him after that. Just another privileged person complaining. I didn't hate him, just lost a little respect. I found out about the PSH tweet (made about a month before I joined the fandom) a little while later and lost more. Because addiction is a disease, not a choice and what he said (hours after the man's death) was disrespectful as hell. The things he has said and done since the finale have slid me firmly into "not a huge fan, but whatever" territory. His answer on the Destiel queston, that btw, was not asked of him, has me sitting in "don't really like your personality bro, thanks for the character you gave and all, but...yikes. No thanks."

Why? Is it because I'm a "bitter Heller who is just throwing a fit because my ship wasn't validated"? Naw, dude. Like I said, I'm used to disappointment. I've been a Doctor Who fan since 2006. I'm a queer who grew up with Harry Potter, the books, not the movies. I was excited for the first Sucide Squad movie. Disappointment and I are old friends.

It's because Jared sat there, on a stage, infront of a bunch of people, and equated romantic love to sex. He answered a question, (again that he had no reason to because it didn't involve him) that had nothing to do with sex, at all, and made it about sex. He sexulized LGBTQ+ community, like thats not one of the biggest stereotypes we have to defend against Every. Single. Day. I'm the B in that category, and the amount of times people have taken advantage of that...the amount of times I've been called a "whore"... the amount of times someone has assumed I will sleep with anybody just because I'm not picky about what is between someone's legs....it's exhausting. I've been in a monogamous relationship since 2012 and people still assume I'm loose. Also, the fact that people wouldn't consider it cheating if I slept with a woman...disgusting. And thats just me. Don't get me started on the fetishization of the queer community. A super hetero dude bro has no problem watching p*rn with two girls going at it, but god forbid they hold hands, or buy a house and adopt a kid. It's "funny" for a dude to act like a girl but the second that dude kisses another dude it's gross. Just, ugh.

Literally no one said romantic love is about sex. Literally no one said saying "I love you" means "lets fuck". Jared did. He brought his children into it. A mother, speaking about her queer children, asked when Dean found out Castiel's love was romantic and Jared replied with "saying I love you to my son doesn't mean I want to touch him." Dude, NO ONE SAID THAT! He said Castiel couldn't feel romantic love because he was junkless. Again Love is not equal to sex. Castiel had sex with April (which btw, means he wasn't junkless) doesn't mean he loved her. Castiel said he loves Jack. We know that doesn't mean he's trying to do him cuz...ew...that's his son. Again, nobody said sex equals love. But he did.

He sat there and said "LGBTQIA" and completely invalidated the "A" part of it. There is a whole spectrum of people who have no sexual feelings and still feel romantic love. There is a spectrum of people who don't even feel sexual feelings until they feel romantic love. There is a whole spectrum of people who do not eqaute love to sex AT ALL. There are nonbinary folks that feel sexual attraction without regards to gender and there are those who just straight up don't feel sexual attraction at all, but still feel love. And that man sat there and, with his whole chest, made a question about another character's love, about sex.

He brought i*cest into it. No one else did. No one said the show was about love and sex. He brought it up. No one said love couldn't be platonic, he's the one who went off on a tangent about it and AGAIN, on a question (say it with me this time) that WAS NOT FOR HIM! I'm not saying the man doesn't have a say in a show that he was on for 15 years, but Jared and Sam had no involvement in that scene at all. It was not about him. He had no place to answer that question and the way he did was....not good at all.

Now, dont get me wrong, Jensen has no place to speak on Castiel's behalf either. He absolutely has the right to talk about Dean, how Dean interpreted it, and how he played Dean's reaction, because Dean is his character. Castiel is Misha's. Misha doesn't speak on Dean's feelings as if he knows because it isn't his place to say. Jensen should do the same. And the thing is, he was actually doing a decent job answering it, until Jared interrupted. He was interrupted and backed into a corner of a PR nightmare, and backpedaled. That's it.

Like I said, not suprised it was tiptoed around. The show isn't about shipping, I get it. Being angry about it solves nothing. It will just make me bitter.

I am pissed that Jared went on a long rant about things he has no business speaking about. I am pissed that Jared invalidated an entire spectrum of people. If you are queer and have no problem with what he said, that's on you, but I, and I know many others, are not okay with it. He made a question into something it wasn't and I'm allowed to be mad about it for reasons that aren't about my ship.

I think I'm done for now, but who knows. Either way I hope everyone has a good day today.

You are loved, you are worthy and you are VALID!

That is all.

#dencon2021 #destiel question #anti jared #never thought id have to use that tag #being queer isn't about sex #love is not about sex #no one said it but you #big oof dude

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loveeachotherslikej2 · 3 years

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So, i made Jared's answer so why not Jensen's. It feels like he had to so i can't find myself to gif it. I just interpret his word ~ (My interpretation =/ "his word". We're good ?)

Jensen knows he can't be over with hellers who think that platonic love is less powerful that romantic love...

Fan : When did you know that the way Castiel loved Dean was in a romantic like deep love like when in the series did you know ?

He explains first that "Dean really ever knew until the very end there. In fact, i know he didn't because i never played that. But as Jensen, it was kind of discussed internally..."

"it's interesting because i think the term romantic is being used because there isn't a term that necessarily.."

he struggle getting to his point because he doesn't want to offend anyone.. and it's really hard with people who can't understand that the show wasn't about that. But like hey he have Jared here thanks. When he says that Dean knew in the very end (i assume he's talking about the last scene with castiel) he doesn't mean it romantically and this is what he will try to explain..

He finish saying that he don't think lust is involve..

"That the love that cass had is heavenly, he's an angel so he's able to love on a level and on a plane that human emotion doesn't necessarily comprehend and i think we might default to making it a romantic or a sexual love.."

He manages to take into account what misha said without refute him.. but as we can see it didn't prevent hatred.

He go to "destiel doesn't exist" to Mark Hamill style answer.. (X)

Did i think that's better ? Not really 'cause that's two different universe. Supernatural is about love, platonic love, family bonds about these two brothers willing to die, kill or do anything for each others it shows at each episode involving them (yeah i can pretty say every here😅) (platonic soulmates, you know). Interpret this love just makes it incest 🤷‍♀️

"The way i kind of interpreted it, and this is the great thing about the show and I think the relationships in some of these characters is that they're open for interpretation, if you find identity in a character because of whatever reason.. fantastic ! Great, if that encourages you to be a better person..."

But i kinda love what he said for all the people out there who (i can't understand yet why) find identity in a fanon ship. Just don't spread hate.

"And i think cass' love was a love that isn't identified by humans necessarily, it was a love that superseded that and we try to find words to describe that and I just don't think there are words."

So what he try to tell us is that Dean understand that love of castiel, because hey castiel isn't human it's not romantic love, either platonic. It was on other plane that humans can't describe it. So can we move on already.

#destiel isn't canon#but interpretation is welcome#even if the show was about platonic love#not really a rant#just anti destiehellers#and anti jared hate#castiel's more than just a ship#btw i love the no word to describe it#cause yeah you know it's dean#and castiel loving him in that way it's refreshing#we cover platonic and now we have heavenly#why not#long post#i'm really grateful to this actually#cause yeah it's good to make clear that destiel doesn't exist in canon#but to actually take into account misha's words for his character#makes me feel better to like castiel#it may seem strange but like i can now interpret Misha's words in Jensen's way without him being there❤

Thanks for reading

#jensen ackles #supernatural convention #supernatural #spndenver2021 #denvercon21 #j2 panel #last question #resume for people : ship it in silence #stop involving them #it's not anti #it's just anti hate #just wanted to do that before Jared's panel #cause honestly he deserves just love #feel free to ignore or even add something #anon hate will be blocked sorry #it's a dictatorship here #seriously contrary opinion are welcome #just no hate

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myfaveotps43 · 5 years

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Little Destiel Rant

(Spoilers)

Anti-Destiel shippers... let's talk...

Most people are saying that Dean and Cas are straight and just have a brother bond and shit... Well here's the tea sis... What they got AIN'T not brother bond.

First off, let's start with the basics, shall we? Cas doesn't have a gender, he's an angel. His vessel is a male, so he uses he/him pronouns (since he's using a male vessel, duh *Bad Guy beat in the background*). Castiel, the being itself, isn't necessarily straight because it doesn't have a gender, it's just a soul basically. Let's get that out of the way

Second off, Dean has been seen as a straight man since the beginning of the series which I can see, a macho man who loves porn, pies and cars, okay I can see it. But you can NOT deny the facts that over the seasons Dean has been somewhat more aware of the same sex. (The sailor he checked out when he time traveled, that man that was flirting with him and he didn't deny that he was gay but said instead 'I'm on a case right now', etc.) Dean seems to be getting comfortable with himself as he grows throughout the seasons, and that's a great thing for him! (Also, you have to be able to notice the way Dean STARES at Castiel, no one should be staring at their 'brother' the way Dean looks at Cas, just saying.)

And see it this way from my own personal perspective, Dean and Castiel have a love between them, a great bond that doesn't have to be labeled as brothers or partners or even boyfriends. They are soulmates. (Let me explain.) Being a soulmate doesn't always mean romantic, it means that two souls have such a great bond that they were meant to be with each other. As Castiel stated himself, he has a more 'profound bond' with Dean rather than Sam and why is that? It's not because Sam was 'the boy with demon blood.' It wasn't because Castiel saw Dean and just decided he cared for him for no reason. No, they have a stronger bond because he literally raised Dean out of Hell. Let me remind you, Dean was BROKEN in hell. His soul was shattered and Castiel had to manually patch him back up. Castiel saw Dean's bare soul and fixed it up himself, he didn't even use Jimmy's vessel at the time, so he was in his true form as he touched Dean's soul. Something like that is way too intimate for them to just be brothers or anything like that.

(There's a theory I love that I think you should consider. Castiel was in his true form when he saved Dean, the theory is that their souls fell in love in hell, but when Dean was fixed and sent back to his vessel, he forgot all about it, and that's why Cas always stares at him longingly and with sadness, hoping that Dean would remember their time in Hell.)

That's why they are so loyal to each other. That's why Cas comes 'every time Dean calls'. That's why Dean could trust Cas with something as powerful as the First Blade. That's why Dean was so INSISTANT on finding Cas in Purgatory and taking him home. That's why he reprogrammed his own memory to make it seem that Cas slipped from his fingers at the Purgatory exit rather than accepting the fact that Cas CHOSE to stay in order to let Dean go. That's why Dean almost lost it when Gadreel demanded Castiel to leave the bunker because he was a beacon to other angels. That's why Dean held Cas's trenchcoat in Baby's trunk. THAT'S why Dean said he needed Castiel, making break away from Naomi's brainwash. THAT'S why Cas couldn't kill the real Dean even when he was brainwashed.

And that's why they were both so TORN when they thought the other was gone (when Cas died S12 and when Dean said yes to Michael in S13).

So, in short, no, I don't see them as JUST brothers and neither should you. But hey, common sense isn't always available to some people.

#destiel #dean winchester #castiel novak #dean x castiel #castiel #supernatural #thats the fucking tea sis #dean loves cas #cas loves dean #dean and cas

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go-diane-winchester · 5 years

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Are people not allowed to ship destiel?

Thank you for the very pertinent question. I, like most sensible slash fans, have absolutely no problem with any ship. I don't have issues with tinhatting. When it comes to shipping, I am very tolerant. As long as you don't hurt people, go ahead and have your fantasy. Destiel is not a problem. The militant shippers, or hellers, most definitely are. Some people I know, used to ship Destiel, before getting fed up and moving on. We have made a distinction between destiel shipper and destiheller before, until we were blue in the face, but we have to keep repeating this because hellers don't circulate the truth, just their headcanons. I even did posts about it, but the hellers don't want to acknowledge that. I have come across destiel shippers. They are nice people. They ship their ship and ask for nothing in return, because they acknowledge what slash fiction is and they make no demands of any kind. Hellers are a beast of a different breed, altogether. A heller is someone who wants to control fandom's thoughts. Nobody is allowed to think contrary to what a heller thinks. And if you do, then you deserve to kill yourself. I, myself, was recently told to put my head in an oven.

So what kind of person is a heller?

A heller cannot understand that subtexts is opinion-based, and that not everyone going to see what you see and interpret it the way you interpret it. For example, the Dr Sexy scene. Jensen, and most fans, interpreted the scene as Dean was fanboying over meeting his on screen idol. The hellers insist, even despite Jensen saying otherwise, that Dean was ''crushing'' on Dr Sexy. The Destiel camp is very headcanon and meta heavy. Instead of just writing stories, indulging in fanart etc, they are constantly writing headcanon and meta. Other hellers, just reading the headcanon and meta, just accept it with question. No debate is held over the analysis. Why is that? They don't question meta writers because then they will have to question their ship and they cant question their ship because they want Destiel to be canon. They can't have it any other way. If an individual uses Destiel and canon in the same conversation, immediately I can tell this is a heller. A normal shipper doesn't want to change the entire show to suit her kinks. And she recognizes that its a kink, a fetish and nothing more. Hellers don't do that. They pretend that they are crusading for LGBT representation when they ask for canon. And why do I have a problem with it? Its shouldn't be my business what hellers blindly believe or don't believe in the heller section of the fandom, should it? Unfortunately, it is. Its everyone's problem, because the hellers believe the meta writers and then they ask questions based on the meta at cons. They harass J2 over the meta. The Dr Sexy question is meta-based. So is the Cas-Collette parallel question. The Js will be put in an uncomfortable position based on how thinly veiled the question is because they will have to answer honestly. The Dr Sexy question was a thinly veiled question. They answered honestly and got bashed on Twitter for it. The parallel question flew right over Jensen's heads. Myths and archetypes are something Jared is fascinated by, so Jensen told Jared to answer the question. And Jared answered the question positively from a literary standpoint. I guarantee that if he had asked the fan to elaborate on the parallel, his answer would have been vastly different. They use that as proof that SPN is queer baiting them.

They cannot differentiate between SPN fandom and Destiel fandom. When a heller speaks about Destiel, especially when harassing SPN execs on SM, they speak for the rest of fandom. They say that ''the fans demand a spin-off'' and ''the fans deserve Destiel to be canon''. And if someone points out to them that not all the fans agree with that statement, they are called a ''fake fan''. If you don't care much for Cas, you are fake fan. If you don't like Misha, you are a fake fan. If you are not ''Destiel positive'' you are a homophobe. Hellers are notorious name callers. Their name calling reaches epic proportions when they have to deal with J2 and wincest shippers because these two ships are their primary competition. They seem to hate sastiel and mishalecki too, but no so much. They rationalize their ship shaming by saying that shipping Destiel is the moral high ground. Because ''wincest is incest'' even though many wincest fans have said they just like J2's onscreen avatars and chemistry, and that they don't condone incest. But acknowledging that is too difficult so instead of doing that, hellers go on repeat insisting that wincest fans are liars and perverts. Shipping J2 is also morally wrong because ''they are totally like brothers''. So hellers essentially want to police fandom and how it behaves and what it thinks.

The Destiel fandom, primarily, only likes Misha and Misha-related stuff. They insist that Misha is a lead, and an equal to Jensen and Jared. They attack anyone who says otherwise, including Jensen and Jared. Remember, the Nolacon joke that got blown out of proportion? The only ones who screamed about the joke on SM, where the hellers. They were taking revenge from Jensen and Jared for saying that Misha not a lead or ''lead support''. Two people approached me about Misha fans [and these may just be minions and Destiel shippers] who said that they were attacked for not liking Cas or Misha. One was attacked online. The other is a kid who is attacked by a heller at school. They can't seem to understand that you can't force someone to stan a celebrity or ship. Its a common sense thing, that has to be explained to a heller. They don't realize that people don't like to be told what to do and who to love. People like celebrities who are their ''type''. I don't like Misha. He is not my ''type'' either physically or personality wise. I never liked SPN because of him. I like SPN because of the brothers and the story. Forcing me to change my opinion is kind of drastic, don't you think? I am certain that most fans who have a blind hatred for Misha now, used to be neutral fans who didn't have a negative opinion about him previously. By forcing Misha on everyone, constantly screaming ''where's the angel?'' and insisting talk show hosts invite Misha too, since he's a ''lead'', they have irritated these fans to the point where now the fans scowl and the mere mention of Misha or Cas. The same can be said for Destiel. They pushed Destiel so much into everyone's face that fans who were amused by the whole shipping thing previously, no hate anything related to Destiel because they are sick of it. I have seen Destiel in the AKF tag. Hellers are also notorious over taggers. In fact, that is where the rift began. With the tagging.

They don't acknowledge that slash is opinion-based. Although this is an understudied area, I have a hypothesis. Shipping is based on love. If you love both the people in the pairing, you will write slash about them, because slash fiction is an expression of love, primarily. There are some kinky bits and pieces here and there, but they are a byproduct of the love that the writer may have. Some people cant slash Jared for some reason. One fan [not a shipper, this is just an example] said, her brother [or was it her cousin] looks exactly like Jared. She posted his picture, and if I hadn't read the caption, I would have thought that it was really Jared. So I can understand if she doesn't want to slash Jared with anyone. It would be weird for her because then she will have to write about him romantically. One fan said [and this was years ago] that Jensen looks identical to her uncle. She would never ship him or his character with anyone, because she would be repulsed. I feel Jensen is one of the most beautiful men on Earth. That is my opinion. My cousin watched the scene where Dean is crying over Sam's dead body. He wipes his tears and when his hands were in the frame, my cousin said ''he has ugly fingernails''. Did I get offended? No. That is her opinion. To her, his finger nails really are ugly. And yet she thinks he has a handsome face. I read a Sevin fic where the writer said, ''Jared has such hot knuckles''. She is gushing over an obscure body part, because that is probably what she likes. Hellers don't understand that. They want everyone to like the same people, for the same reasons, in the same manner. No diversion from that collective opinion is allowed. People's desires are not uniform. How they perceive beauty is also not uniform. I call Misha ugly, partly because I don't appreciate being told to put my head in an oven and partly because [in my eyes] his behavior made me become sexually put off by him. I used to slash him before. Believe me, Misha only started to look ugly to me, when I started to really not like him. For eight years he was nice looking. Now I cant stand him and he is the most hideous beast I have ever seen. That is not just my thinking. I am certain other anti-Misha fans feel the same way. They used to like him and find him attractive, until he just put them off. I am sure if Misha did a 360 and changed his ways, he might start to look nice to us once more. So technically Misha lost fans because of his own behavior.

Hellers think that J2 fans are as crazy as they are. They think bibros love J2 the same way that they love Misha. Blindly. In the years that I watched SPN, I remember falling in and out of love with both Jensen and Jared [and Sam and Dean for that matter] based on something that they had done that I had liked or didn't like. Sometimes where I was emotionally, also played a part how I felt about them, or any other human being for that matter. People's opinions over an individual will change due to various issues. Just recently Jensen said something I didn't approve of. Sometimes Jared puts his foot in his mouth. They are human so they will mess up. If they make one stupid mistake, I let it go only because messing up is not something that they consistently do, unlike Misha who doesn't acknowledge or learn from his mistakes. If they consistently do things to cause a rift in fandom, then there are other celebrities out there. I don't need them. I will move on. So I acknowledge, that just because I like someone, it doesn't mean that he is perfect and will never mess up. It also means that because I like someone, it is not necessary for other people to like him too. Even amongst bibros, we have minor disagreements J2 but we don't hate each other based of differences of opinions. We don't insist that our opinion is the right one. In the heller camp, meta writers think for everyone. They decide how people are going to perceive a scene, or a moment during a panel. In fact, the lower level hellers leaving the actual watching of the show to the meta writers. They skip episodes that don't include Cas. That is a lot of episodes they are missing, because Misha, up till this year, was only allocated a fixed number of episodes per season in his contract. The meta writers watch the episodes through their shipping goggles, looking for what they would consider subtext, and then they write essays based on the episode, and the possible subtext they have found, including flimsy things like shirt colors. The lower level hellers read it and become affronted that SPN is queer baiting them so blatantly. They do the same thing with panels. Instead of watching the generously shared panels on YouTube, for free, they follow a high level heller on social media who attends the con, and tweets something they perceive to be slashily scandalous. They especially look for something to get offended by, when Jared speaks. So the lower level hellers were not forming their own opinion but basing how they feel on someone else's opinion. They hate Jared because of reasons listed by someone else. If they were smart, they would think for themselves.

There is nothing wrong with any of the ships on SPN. Do I believe all ships are equal? Well on SPN, to a certain extent, sure. If someone doesn't like wincest, because they are victims of incest, that would make sense. Wincest fans who acknowledge the abuse are friends of mine. Those that are cruel about it, are not. Its as simple as that. I am a victim of pedophilia. So I hate weecest. I don't go near weecest fic. If weecest fans acknowledge this and leave me alone, there wont be any problems. If they try to push their kink onto me by trying to tell me how wrong my opinion is, then they will be sorry. But you cant call yourself a victim, by going where you are likely to find a trigger and them complaining that you are being triggered. Not only are you looking for trouble, but you are making abuse victims and their triggers look trivial. Because now they appear like Divas, whom everyone else has to bend over backwards to please. This allows me to segue into a similar topic. I have heard complaints from fans, looking up a general SPN fan fic, investing time to read it, only for their enthusiasm to come to a screeching halt because as the chapters progress, Dean comes out as bi and in love with Cas. Shouldn't the writer notify the reader that she or he is reading a destiel fanfic. Not only are they mistagging their Tumblr posts. They are mistagging fanfiction. Essentially they are duping people into reading their stories. What kind of indoctrination logic is this?

Hellers need to understand that Destiel is not the biggest ship on SPN. If they insist that it is, then they have to quantify that opinion with a number. They wont because the last time they did that, the number went up to 8000 and stalled. That makes them 1% of the fandom and they hate being reminded of it. They have done debunking essays with regards to the number, but then why not do the census again. Don't debunk with your words. Use actual data. Prove to ''all the haters'' that there are millions of you, voting with your remote and contributing to the ratings in the USA alone. We will never bring up the number again. Hellers need to also understand that slash is not the point of SPN. The show is not about love and kinks and soap opera nonsense. It is about the supernatural, hence the name. Insisting on making Destiel canon and destroying Jensen's reputation by calling him a bigot because he refuses to do so, is a nasty thing to do, because hellers are not the only ones watching SPN. Everyone is, and they like the show as it is. They don't want change. In fact, it will surprise you to know that wincest fans don't want wincest as a romance, to be canon. They don't demand anything accept better storylines. The only people doing the demanding are the hellers. It is time for dialogue to open between the destiel fans and the hellers, because the hellers are ruining not just the ship but the show as well.

I hope this answers the question. Thank you once again, for the ask.

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tinkdw · 7 years

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Hey Tink I still dont get the whole Amara and Cas thing in S11, I still think they were sorta trying so hard to connect Dean to Amara, even when Mildred mentioned his heart pining for someone else all I could think was writers probably meaning Amara (don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Destiel shipper), I know you might've explained it before, can you link me to ine if your metas about that?!

Hi!

My friend you have come to the right place I LOVE AMARA’s ARC.

They didn't “try so hard to connect Dean to Amara”, it was purposefully done that she was set up as the ANTI CAS. She establishes a forced bond on Dean which is beyond his control and desire, she is trying to take away his agency though it’s not through bad intentions, she thinks she’s helping (WAVES AT ALL THE ANGELIC/JACK/PARADISE PARALLELS). In theory he cannot say no to her, that’s iterated again and again, yet he does, and every time it’s because of CAS, his chosen bond. This is set up right from the beginning.

As soon as Amara is set up as a love interest for Dean she is paralleled to Cas. IMMEDIATELY. Before this even she tells Dean that he REPRESENTS HUMANITY while we get a scene between Metatron and Cas interspersed with it TO REMIND US THAT METATRON SAID THAT CAS IS IN LOVE ... WITH HUMANITY.

She then proceeds to use Cas to get to Dean and it works.

Then she only contacts Dean through touching Cas’ heart and when Dean hears the word “Angels”.

Dean goes and puts himself in harms way with Amara to save Cas.

Dean reconciles Amara and Chuck through distinguishing familial and romantic love and what she actually wants.

Amara tells Dean that something is stopping him from having it all, what he wants and that she will give him what he needs.

Even the Amara shaped love monster and the ‘wise woman’ Mildred know Dean’s heart.

Then Amara resurrects Mary, enabling Dean to follow his path to self acceptance and starting to believe that he deserves good things, that he is allowed to have what he wants and coincidentally starts giving Cas mixtapes, telling him he is devastatingly handsome, worrying about him unashamedly and outloud for 6 consecutive episodes and acting like hunting husbands then worried husbands all season.

*Nothing to see here*

Here’s my long meta’s that I wrote that were some of the first things I ever wrote on tumblr so be kind :p

Screw it here, just have freaking all of them!

Main ones on Amara:

Amara and season 11 overall just don't work without Destiel

Chuck/Angels expose Cas’ feelings for Dean and desires and Amara/humans expose Dean’s feelings for Cas and his desires

Mary is the best mother figure they could wish for

Dean and self worth in season 12: also has my spec for s12 finale in here

My season 12 finale spec and confirmations which is relevant to Amara through Mary

My shameless post about all the speculation I made that was right at the end of season 12 because jeez, it was amazing, I loved it, they’re doing what we desperately want them to do for the characters and I’m so extremely ecstatic!!!

Other meta on Amara:

https://tinkdw.tumblr.com/post/162480211512/justrandomspnstuff-tinkdw-amara-mary

https://tinkdw.tumblr.com/post/162241871880/so-what-does-cas-want

https://tinkdw.tumblr.com/post/162322674652/misanthropicphilantropist-frecklesandfeathers

https://tinkdw.tumblr.com/post/163247589917/in-11x18-when-crowley-is-telling-cas-to-kick

I JUST REALLY LOVE AMARA’s ARC OK!

#amara #dean x amara #destiel #destiel meta #tinks meta #supernatural speculation #season 12 speculation #supernatural season 11 #Anonymous

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