#yeah this is all pretty much tommy's perspective so yeah it is biased

[bonesandthebees]

Ranboo and Aimsey. Oh, this one hurts, particularly because of Aimsey.

They understood! For a moment, Aimsey understood Wilbur! But they also deeply cares about Tommy and they don't excuse Wilbur's actions because of what he's been through. Which on a meta level is probably the right thing to do. But in viewing Wilbur as the villain, or the antagonist, Aimsey might have taken too far of a step back and now blames him for something unfair that's out of his control. Aimsey saying "You can’t just ask for something like that!" makes me think that they suspected that Wilbur wanted to be put in the personal wing before it even happened. Such a view makes Wilbur look more conniving and manipulative than he really is

Ranboo has a much more mellow view of Wilbur, I don't think he sees Wilbur as manipulative, but he's also more sympathetic towards Tommy than Wilbur (which I think is fair). Both of them care so much about Tommy. It's sweet. It just hurts to see from Wilbur's POV. I also feel like Aimsey hit the nail right on the head with their description of how Wilbur and Tommy are different. Trauma changes people. Wilbur and Tommy are both oh, oh so different than they were before

Quickly talking about Tommy before I go into more detail in my last ask: I'm just still wondering how he must feel about all of this. I can't even imagine. What Ranboo and Aimsey were talking about gives me a pretty good idea, but oh no, that kid must be in so much pain :(

You're too good of an author. You make me feel things and it's unfair/pos

🔥 (3/4?)

yeahhhhh the ranboo and aimsey conversation HURT. because the thing is, aimsey does genuinely care about both wilbur and tommy and wants to see things from wilbur's pov, but it's hard when the person you're trying to empathize with openly tells you he doesn't trust you and refuses to speak with you for more than a few minutes at a time. in fairness though, aimsey isn't viewing wilbur as a total antagonist at this point or anything. they're just very confused by the current situation and since they're witnessing tommy's reaction to the fight and not wilbur's, they're biased to his side instead.

also, yeah, from an outside pov wilbur getting moved to the personal wing doesn't look very good for him. from ranboo and tommy both, aimsey has heard about how wilbur has been meeting with phil regularly for months now. they know that he refuses to tell tommy what he talks about with phil, and they also know that he's been acting very cold and distrusting to everyone else around him. and now they know a horrible fight has happened between the brothers that they knew used to be so close, and wilbur suddenly gets moved to phil's personal wing? it absolutely looks weird. you can't blame them for that interpretation because a lot of people would come to the same conclusion they did.

meanwhile, ranboo has a bit more of an insider perspective thanks to how close he is with techno, and there's only so much he can tell aimsey as a result. so yeah, he has a bit more of a mild view of wilbur, but he also still doesn't know the full story. more than anything, they're both just really worried about tommy.

yup :) trauma changes you a LOT

tommy is... not having a great time right now. both the brothers are suffering really badly because of this fight

sorry not sorry for the emotions LMAO

#ask #flame anon #the stars and their children

[1randomperson15]

Very often in lore discourse, I'll see someone say "Did we even watch the same thing?" when referring to someone else's take that they find ludicrous.

I'd like to point out that the answer to that question is no. We did not. There is a very few amount of people who have watched every single vod of every single pov for any given event, much less any arc, much less the entire 2+ years of lore.

Yeah, sure, most of us have the gist of other character's arcs but we didn't necessarily watch them. The small details at the beginning or end of a stream that could make all the difference. We might not know them.

The order of which we watch them factors in too. Two people might have watched the exact streams and videos and come out with different opinions on how it went. There's biases - your favorite content creator before you knew anything, who you watched first, who you're familiar with, etc.

Do you think if someone only watched c!Techno's pov, and another person only watched c!Tommy's pov that they watched the same thing? Hell no. Even if that was just Pogtopia, where they were pretty near each other the whole time, it's still incredibly different.

The differing intimacy, exposure, and knowledge of any given character creates all these unique perspectives. It's what makes everyone's experience with the dsmp even just a little bit different different. It's what makes the dsmp so great. It's what makes it so infuriating. It's what makes the Dream SMP the Dream SMP.

#dsmp #my stuff #nonsensical ramblings #just some thoughts

[zeta-in-de-walls]

What's the most common misconception you hear about c!tommy?

Hey! Really interesting question, cheers. I’d say that there’s quite a few misconceptions floating around: that he never apologises, that he hasn’t developed, that his exile was his fault, that he’s the main source of conflict on the server, that all he does is steal, and plenty of other stuff.

But the one I probably hear most is how Tommy supposedly values music discs over people.

This one is such a mess of misconceptions. I’ve even heard it said that Doomsday happened because Tommy cared about his discs too much and he was wrong because you shouldn’t value items over human lives. I hate this one because it misunderstands Tommy enough so you can dismiss him because its such a weak position. 

Anyway, I understand why its so messy. Tommy throughout season 2 is frequently in a state of uncertainty and is being driven by emotions and isn’t thinking clearly after so much suffering. He says a lot of stuff he doesn’t mean and is very suggestible. Most of his talking about the discs is done when he’s lonely and thinks his friends don’t care for him anymore, that they’re better off without him.

Now, let’s be clear: music discs are something Tommy’s character loves. His happiness every time he listens to one feels very genuine. He’s had so many emotional moments listening to his discs with others and even considers his bench his happy space. He likes them and invites others to listen with him. These items hold no intrinsic value, they’re of no worth to anyone else besides how much they mean to Tommy. The only reason to take them is to try to control him specifically. That’s the original reason Dream took them in the original disc war - to punish Tommy after he caused some trouble. 

And the original disc war was fun for Tommy. He found the battle to be exciting and enjoyed trying to outplay Dream with his best friend Tubbo and anyone he could get on his side. It was like a fun game to him. One that, while chaotic, no one really got hurt from at all - the only one who really suffered was Tommy himself, who put stuff on the line for it and had his whole base dug up. (And Tubbo who got dragged in and lost items, but he was initially a very willing partner who found the conflict fun too.) 

And then we have Dream, who traded away L’Manburg’s independence for Tommy’s discs, an interesting decision which meant only Tommy really paid the price that day. Everyone remarked on how unusually selfless it was of Tommy. That day was a victory for everyone else, but bittersweet for him. Wilbur consoled him, saying they could get them back and then they’d have even more history and sentimental value attached to them, having been what paid for L’Manburg’s freedom. Tommy was encouraged and so the game continued.

Dream over this time became not just Tommy’s enemy, but his friend. They had fights and conflicts but it was more like a fun game. As they also did stuff like make a church together. Eventually Tommy managed to steal Mellohi back from Dream while Skeppy acquired Cat. At the elections, Tommy gives Mellohi to Wilbur who gives it back again when they’re banished. Months pass and they finally win back L’Manberg and its a wonderful day (until it goes wrong) but Tommy’s not done with his disc war. 

This disc war was always a personal thing for Tommy, he’s never wanted others to be dragged in and hurt by it. He kind of takes Tubbo for granted, but Tubbo’s also always been his partner in crime and Tommy enjoys having a war he can fight alongside his best friend - he and Tubbo against Dream. Dream at this point is still seen as a friendly enemy, in spite of choosing Schlatt and helping Wilbur blow up L’Manberg. Anyway, he rejects Presidency, giving it to Wilbur because he trusts him and also wants to focus on his personal battles after so long ignoring it. He doesn’t want others to be dragged in or for his interests to be divided. He’s leaving L’Manburg in safe hands he can trust. That’s season 1 of the SMP, but season 2 is where things get messier.

After the war, Tommy hears that Tubbo had been suspicious that Tommy might’ve been the traitor. In order to show that he trusts him, Tommy gives Tubbo Mellohi. It’s not just a disc now, its a sign of trust, a sign of their bond - at least in Tommy’s eyes.

Then Dream builds obsidian walls around L’Manburg and we first see Tommy showing that bit of selfishness. He states that he’d wanted to step away, that L’Manburg wasn’t his priority anymore. That he’d left it in safe hands so he could focus on the discs. But it doesn’t matter what Tommy intended. Dream is targeting him and is dragging the rest of L’Manburg into it by threatening to seal them in obsidian forever if they don’t comply. Tommy and Tubbo do have a disagreement here, but its not actually so much about the discs. 

-Tommy believes that fighting Dream is the superior option, if they ask for help from others in the server - because what he’s doing isn’t right - then they could defeat him, show him that he couldn’t just push them around. 

-Tubbo feels like that would get them killed and he doesn’t want to risk their lives. It would be better to appease Dream for now and secretly plot how to take him down later but Tommy’s being too hotheaded. 

Tommy brings up the disc to state how he trusts Tubbo and would consider being exiled a betrayal but Tubbo reminds him that they’re just discs and there’s more on the line and Tommy needs to be more cooperative. Anyway, Tommy’s hurt by Tubbo exiling him and think its a sign that he doesn’t care about him anymore. Tubbo meanwhile found it difficult to do but felt like there was no other option but did still care about Tommy. Tubbo would later come to regret doing it while Tommy would later say that it was the right choice when they finally actually talk. 

The discs here are kind of a symbol but Tommy doesn’t really value them over others, he’s being a little selfish for sure but that is mostly a result of being treated unfairly by Dream and feeling attacked and ganged up on by his friends, not seeing how they were trying to help him. Dream’s the one to blame here. At worst, Tommy’s being irresponsible in thinking he can just step away from L’Manburg - he didn’t value the discs over it, he just wanted to fight a personal battle without L’Manburg being involved for once. But too many things do matter to him and Dream realised he could attack Tommy through his friends. Its also why Tommy says he didn’t want Tubbo to be President, because he wanted him to be free to help him in his personal war too. There were some issues in their friendship that for sure got exploited and blown out of proportion.

So post-exile. Tommy is rather confused. He’s decided he doesn’t want to die and that Dream wasn’t really his friend, but he still feels abandoned by all his other friends. He still believes they didn’t really care about him after his failed beach party and everything else. And his feelings on Dream are mixed because he knows logically he should hate him but emotionally he still feels like he’s his friend.

Tommy at this point, begins clinging to the discs as some sort of tangible goal while feeling so lonely and abandoned. He has no real sense of agency and really wants Technoblade to give him guidance. Technoblade however wants to destroy L’Manburg and reaffirms his thoughts that Tubbo doesnt really care about him. Tommy is still...kinda(?) clear that he doesn’t want L’Manburg to be destroyed but is willing to compromise on minor terrorism. His remaining belief in L’Manburg is being eroded. You can see in his trips into L’Manburg he is rather unaware of the extent of his actions. He’s suffered and now feels right in lashing out. It seems to be the start of a villain arc even. Right at this point, the discs make more sense than people so they are his goal. And yet even in the midst of his uncertainty, he says the one Tubbo has is safe, he wants to get the one Dream has. 

The discs are Tommy’s way of saying he wants to fight Dream. It’s not really about the discs anymore, Dream went way too far with the exile and now Tommy wants to stop him and find it easiest to frame it as going after his music disc.

Then the festival. Tommy finally confronts Tubbo and sees him about to give his disc to Dream. It’s his worst fears confirmed, that Tubbo doesn’t really care about him and that he’s on Dream’s side. They fight and Tommy finally says the line ‘the discs were worth more than you ever were!’

And he regrets it immediately. The statement rang false. They were just discs and Tubbo was his best friend. He immediately tells Tubbo to give up the disc and changes sides then and there. The discs were not more important than people. He was being selfish. And he also remembered how much he cared about L’Manburg and didn’t want it to be blown up no matter what he’d agreed to the day before. He wants to fight for it, choosing his friends once and for all. 

In his argument with Techno on Doomsday, he does bring up his discs and words it kind of awkwardly. He tries to explain that ‘nothing had been taken from you, while the discs were stolen from me’ Tommy believes that Techno is destroying something people loved when he could’ve just walked away, he wasn’t fighting for something he loved like Tommy in his wars. That’s what he’s trying to get at, not that music discs are more important than people. Tommy doesn’t actually believe that and prefers wars that don’t hurt others, as the disc wars was once supposed to be before Dream brought in everyone else. Even saying that, Tommy admits he’d messed up so many times in chasing the discs. That he was wrong.

Tommy talks about going after the discs again but at this point it really means taking down Dream. Dream had expressed that he would not stop, he enjoyed their ‘game’ too much. Tommy has nothing left to lose as far as he’s concerned and needs to take down Dream for everything he’d done. 

During the disc saga finale, again Tommy always chooses Tubbo first. There’s this one moment where he has Mellohi and could run away forever but he stops and gives it up along with all their items before their taken to the vault and almost forced to watch Tubbo die while he gets thrown in prison forever. But he chooses Tubbo. He always does. 

Okay, summary over. I hope that better explains why I dislike the misconception that Tommy chooses his discs over people. He doesn’t really. It’s used to discredit him way too much, I feel. It’s only at his lowest, after being tormented in exile that he even gets close to that position and that’s when he’s on the bring of choosing a dark path and becoming what he hates. At the festival, he rejects that path.

Now that he has his discs, he hasn’t started trouble with them once. They’re safe and he can bring them out to listen to when he’s feeling low, not hurting anyone. They’re just something he loves and its okay to have attachments. 

#dream smp #tommyinnit #meta #analysis #replies #aah sorry for the long post #i got carried away #ilike to correct misconceptions #dreamsmp #yeah this is all pretty much tommy's perspective so yeah it is biased #exile arc #but thanks for the ask

[prismartist]

/rp

okay. if the c!tommy apologists and c!dream haters come after me for this, then so be it.

tommy shouldn’t kill dream. not just because of basic moral decency, but also because, from an outsider perspective, he quite literally has no reason to. because really, it will just do no good to anyone, including tommy.

(uh please keep in mind this is /nm, even if it doesn’t seem like it lmao i’m just a bit sassy for some reason)

tommy’s belief that he should get rid of dream comes from a mix of paranoia resulting from his trauma and the hero complex that was instilled in him since forever. he’s looking through an extremely muddled and biased lens. he’s convinced dream is going to break out when in reality, dream is fucking powerless! he may be unhinged and he may be dangerous, but he can’t do shit in the prison. he has no one to use the revival knowledge on, and they have stated time and time again that it is literally impossible for him to break out without assistance. and if any of y’all start to mention enderboo, let me remind you that the theory of enderboo being manipulated by dream isn’t canon. even if it was, you would think that he would have gotten out by now because really, dream would want to get out asap, yet he’s been in there for three months now.

and about what i said about dream not being able to get out unless with help? it’s actually quite possible that, in entering pandora’s vault, tommy might accidentally let him out. 

(there are wilbur parallels here! would you look at that! hey remember the last time wilbur gave in to his paranoia and ended up hurting a lot of people? hope that doesn’t happen again ahahah-)

also, doesn’t tommy realize that he’s deteriorating his own mental health in trying to achieve this? i mean that should be obvious the moment he tried exposure therapy. he always thinks he has to confront dream to make things even when he really doesn’t. like he reaaaallly doesn’t. he’s trying to keep up his hero complex even when it fucks him over. remember the last time he tried confronting dream? that didn’t work out so well now did it?

not to mention, tommy is just giving dream power but stubbornly facing him over and over again. because he keeps getting beat up! he keeps giving dream something to play with! and that’s been the case the entire time!! there’s a reason dream only ever targets tommy, and only tommy.

riffing off that, tommy thinks dream will hurt everyone on the server when that’s kind of misguided as well?? dream’s main priority has always been keeping tommy in line. anytime he targets anything else, it’s because he sees them as extensions of tommy. l’manburg, the discs, tubbo. even if dream does get out, even if he resurrects wilbur, it’ll just be because he’ll be after tommy. which, yeah that’s terrible for tommy, but he’s not endangering the entirety of the server.

“so what do you suggest we do about dream?” nothing! you can do nothing!! i mean quackity’s already doing a pretty damn good job of beating him up (even though he really shouldn’t) or you can give him some therapy perhaps?? someone unbiased to talk to?? just don’t send in the clearly traumatized 16-year-old to do the work himself!! he’s in no position to kill anyone, much less face his abuser.

also there’s the argument that killing anyone no matter what is unlawful but for some reason y’all don’t seem to take that as seriously as the other points. which, fine, i’m not going to try convincing y’all otherwise, i’m just going to say that there’s a weird dissonance in saying tommy’s murder isn’t justifiable while dream’s possible one is, when both are results of trauma build-up, muddled points of view and a strong belief that the victim is the cause of all their problems. but one is more correct than the other ig (/s).

also can we stop. othering abusers and treating them as irredeemable? there’s a good post that explains this in depth but basically targeting abusers doesn’t help anything because it’s not actually tackling the root of the problem, that is, the system that molded them into abusers, and so just by punishing the abusers themselves and making them worse that doesn’t help to prevent other abusers and dehumanizes them.

now i’m not saying it’s not understandable why tommy thinks these things. it is! as i said, it’s a result of his upbringing thinking that violence is the only solution to your problems as well as the hero complex forced upon him. plus the obvious trauma caused by dream and co. i’m just saying that he’s making a big mistake by targeting dream when he’s posing no threat at the moment. also murder is problematic. 

now the only reason why i would like for tommy to confront dream and attempt to murder him is that it would be an interesting storyline, and it would be extremely intriguing to see tommy’s train of thought while he executes his plan. but in-lore, i don’t think it’s going to be a positive experience in any way shape or form. he’s just endangering himself and dream rather than protecting everyone else. and i wouldn’t want dream to die from a meta standpoint; i feel like that’d be a waste of his character, that we weren’t able to see his pov before he gets ousted out of the storyline for good. especially since he’s the one who started the server.

TL;DR tommy shouldn’t murder dream, not only is it not supposed to be justifiable but facing him would probably have serious consequences on his mental health.

#tommyinnit #dreamwastaken #dream smp #mcyt #dream smp analysis #dsmp analysis #dsmp #c!tommy critical #unintelligible rants #long post #cursing #tommy apologists come @ me i dare you #but be gentle also im fragile #murder mention tw #abuse mention tw

[masked-puppetmaster]

hey, i saw you asked a while ago why dream & techno apologists are apologists for those characters (and you liked a bunch of my posts concerning that, actually) i was wondering if you still have any more questions - and also i wanted to ask if you wanted to talk a bit about c!tommy and what makes you like him so much? like is it just the emotional attachment to him? is it the trauma? anything specific about the way in which he is written? i've always watched his pov & i'm very curious! / - red

yo yo yo hey! I think I understand it a bit more now, for the dream & techo apologists, I think I’m still a bit confused when it comes to technoblade. I see a lot about people only using him as a weapon/ him not being able to trust people / no one sticking up for him and I’m not sure where it comes from? In all fairness, I only know him as the guy who executed Tubbo / spawned withers but im assuming that’s in large part because I came into the story so late (iirc I didn’t really get into the dsmp until around doomsday, and I got most information of past events just by like. osmosis or reading wikis) so I might simply just not have enough information on techno to get it. Like, he executed Tubbo under a lot of pressure iirc but that doesn’t take away from the fact he did execute him? or things with the withers, I know technoblade doesn’t like the government and I’d go as far as to say he has a point, but was it really necessary to destroy lmanburg (iirc, multiple times). I know he was mad, but I feel like he shouldn’t have taken in that far, like from what I see and understand it’s like yes he had his points but he hurt people and doesn’t seem to care that he hurt anybody, just kinda stands there assuming he’s right about everything and not rlly looking at the situation from anyone else’s perspective. That being said like I said I came into the story really late and so my arguments might be able to be chalked up to just a lack of proper context, and even if I’m kinda annoyed at Technoblade’s behavior I still like him as a character & when techno does stream I enjoy the content so I’m not like a technoblade hater or anything I just don’t see why people can be apologists for him bcos from my pov he’s just kind of hurt people and not taken any personal responsibility for it (I mean this as in acknowledging to himself he was ever in the wrong; ex. The whole Tommy / techno betrayal situation which I think was a p complicated matter to be fair he just keeps saying over and over how Tommy betrayed him and it doesn’t seem to me like he’s even bothering to look at the situation from Tommy’s pov or rlly reflect on his own actions at all)

I just rlly like Tommy! I think at least some part of it can be chalked up to Tommy being the first streamer I watched in the dsmp and one of the ones I watch the most from (half the time I’m watching the dsmp it’s a Tommy stream) so there’s just gonna be some inherent bias towards him there like there is with literally any of these streamers. As you put it, it is kinda the trauma, haha. trauma and emotional attachment lol. I think part of it is I relate to him a lot, and I can see where he’s coming from on a lot of things, and I also just like the way his character is written. Smthn abt him that people have pointed out is that his trauma isn’t pretty and romanticized it’s ugly and yk he acts out and all that, which I appreciate. I can see where he’s coming from on a lot of things or at least understand why he thinks the way he does. I like seeing him learn and grow I like seeing his arcs both personally with himself and with other people. He’s an interesting and complex character and he’s been through a lot and I think it’s just super interesting to see how what he’s gone though affects his mental state and his actions as a character, like just from like a mental analysis standpoint there’s a lot to talk about which I think is pretty cool. this isn’t to say that he’s never fucked up or done anything wrong, because he has, but to be fair so has everyone else on this server I don’t think there’s a single member of the server who’s done nothing wrong (except maybe like. Charlie. Charlie my beloved). He’s made his mistakes but every good character fucks up that’s what makes them a good character is their flaws and so with the ways that he’s messed up and the ways he’s hurt people I’m an apologist because I can see why he acts that way, where the feelings and actions are coming from and I can forgive him for it because I understand the why. Also I just think the punishments he’s received for his actions are rlly unfair, easy ex with exile he did something many people on the server have already done at one point or another and was exiled and mentally broken down over it and rlly it’s just been like one thing after another and even if he’s made mistakes he gets way more harshly punished than I think was fair. I’ve seen people talk about how annoying and selfish his character is and when I read the posts (not all of them, there’s a nice chunk of people who are civil about it) it just seems like they’re not rlly thinking abt his character and his experiences. I’ll see people explain his signs of trauma and say it’s annoying because it’s not soft crying trauma it’s messy acting out trauma which it’s just like you do not understand this at all, do you? Or with the discs, I’ll be honest with you here. I will defend Tommy’s attachment to these stupid little music discs till the day I die. Why can’t he have his discs? They’re his , they’re not even that valuable outside of the fact that they’re his, why can’t he have things? why isn’t he aloud to have items he’s attached to without someone taking them for the sole reason of he likes them. And all I see is people saying he is selfish and cares about the discs more than people, which is literally disproven in the rp. Ranboo flat out says he’s not selfish, when Tommy takes the blame for George’s house (also keeping in mind here tommy and ranboo barely knew each other at the time, and if Tommy was actually selfish he could’ve very easily dragged Ranboo down with him) and when it comes to the discs he’s given up the discs multiple times in favor of helping other people (he gave them up for lmanburg, and then for Tubbo I think twice actually) and the one time he told someone the discs were worth more than they were, that was the moment yeah made him realize he didn’t like who he was becoming and he immediately backtracked and allowed the disc to be handed over. TL;DR he’s not selfish he’s just got a lot of strong attachments and his attachments are both his greatest strength and his greatest weakness. And he’s a kid, he’s been though a lot of things, he’s got a lot of trauma he’s dealing

with and it’s not always pretty but he gets better, he has his arcs and he gets better and learns from some of his actions, and I think looking at him and his yk. Timeline and character development and arcs and his whole like mental deal and just general character choices are super interesting and I find it fun, as someone who enjoys character analysis, and all in all I love him I relate to him in some ways and some of it also might just be emotional attachment and bias towards him as Tommy being one of my comfort streamers

& it’s fully possible someone could have just as much of an argument for c!techno, my deal w looking at c!tommy making mistakes and c!techno making mistakes and being able to be an apologist for Tommy and not for techno is more about me understanding tommy’s character better and understand the reasoning and the why behind the things he says and does, vs. techno who i dont really get and i can’t be an apologist for him if I don’t understand anything hes doing or why he’s doing it and then seeing him over and over dismiss other peoples perspectives and never rlly reflecting on himself (not to say Tommy couldn’t use at least a little of that himself- I am Looking over at his relationship w Jack Manifold lol) can be kinda frustrating but as I said earlier that might just be me not knowing all the proper context

I could probably write more about Tommy especially when it comes to the whole technoblade vs Tommy thing but this post is already way longer than you probably ever wanted to read so I’ll stop now I’m sorry I’m just hyperfixated haha and yk if anyone wants to like add arguments or points or if you or someone rlly likes technoblade or dream or whoever and wants to talk to me about that go ahead I encourage that like I rlly enjoy having those conversations w ppl provided theyre civil abt it bc like we’ve all said a million times over before eveyone in the dsmp is an unreliable narrator and you’re just going to automatically have a bias towards a character if you watch their POV most and all that so. Yk I am a tommy apologist but I watch his streams most and I’m also just emotionally attached so anything I can say has to be taken w a grain of salt bcos I’m biased towards his character

#Long post #ask #anon #red #tommyinnit #c!tommy #technoblade #c!techno #c!technoblade #DSMP #dream smp #Tommy apologist #technoblade apologist #I’m so sorry I talked way more than I intended to whoops !!!! #That’s my two cents

[honkster]

Okay so I did miss a few things

Mainly stuff that either I didn’t think were important enough to address or I just didn’t think of.

Let’s get to it.

1. Techno betraying Tommy.

2. Ghosty bois coming back.

3. Tommy and Quackity as ab*se survivors.

<_><_><_>

I try to be as un-biased as I can whenever I say “From a writing perspective”, I kind of disassociate and look at the story how I would write it if I had to. You know, purely analysing the characters without the attachment I feel for them as a viewer.

But I don’t have to do that to say that Techno is not going to betray Tommy.

I get the angst – oh do I get the angst. I’m a fan of angst, I used to write only it for a while.

But Dream. You know how much Techno cares about Dream?

He’d rather read his donations than not risk Dream’s wrath at avoiding the admittance of Tommy in his house.

Techno has shown that he cares more for Tommy than he fears Dream (Fear is probably the wrong word here. Neutrality as he bides his time until he can strike – much more Blade. Because no matter what, Dream is just a temporary ally to Techno, much like what he started to view Pogtopia as.) He is shielding Tommy from him, he is reluctantly reminded the he owes Dream a favor, he dismisses his role as Lycomedes in this myth that’s so accurate to the story. Not even once in the streams Tommy and Techno did together (and the subsequent Techno or Tommy solo streams) did it seem that Techno was even considering a Tommy and Dream meetup. Yes, the favor is looking to be another Chekhov's gun, much like the TNT under L’manburg, but whoever said it means that Techno will succumb to Dream?

When did we decide that Dream cashing in his favor with Techno doesn’t mean that the pig will take that chance to betray Dream?

When did we decide that Dream cashing in his favor with Techno means that Dream trusts Techno unconditionally and won’t try to betray Techno?

Dream and Techno are in a unique stalemate currently. Techno can’t harm Dream, not when he has creative mode, and for Dream Techno is far more useful as an ally. That favor that Dream is holding over his head? That is the one-up he has on Techno. Until, perhaps, Techno pulls a Spirit and decides that Dream doesn’t control him…

Is this better anxiety than angsting over Techno potentially turning Tommy in? :)

(Bonus: I’m pretty sure that Techno and Tommy are even when talking about betrayals. Tommy established a new government in front of Techno, Techno blew the government up. Techno isn’t going to betray Tommy because he’s still salty. Tommy was slightly petty when he huddled under Techno’s house, but he seems to have gotten over that and now it’s just sibling banter.

They betrayed each other and then were angry at each for it. They’re even, stop the angst.)

<_><_><_>

Another thing I keep seeing despite everything…

The Ghosty bois returning.

Schlatt through possession, Wilbur through some method Philza may find months after the moment he first wrote it in a book.

My answer is… What’s the point?

Okay, you bring back Schlatt. What’s he gonna do, re-establish Manburg?

As if.

So he possessed Quackity/Tubbo. Again, what’s he gonna do? L’manburg is not the same thing that it was before, when Schlatt and Wilbur first found their power. It’s not a place where words mean more than weapons, where no armor is worn yet wars are won. Since L’manburg’s pacifist dictators have died/been changed to more violent ways, L’manburg has adapted to the landscape of the server and become just like every other faction – fighting wars with weapons.

So again, what would happen if Schlatt returned, in one form or another? The moment someone realizes what happened, he gets taken down. No one likes Schlatt, no one is on his side, everyone would stab him in his weak heart and twist the blade to “just make sure” he is truly dead. No one will rally behind him, he will have no power. You don’t gotta worry about that ghosty boi.

Wilbur? Well, if we dive into meta and what the cc himself has said, it’s going to take more than just a totem of undying to bring him back. And from a writing perspective, Ghostbur needs to come to terms with himself. Him just forgetting the things that he did, the people he harmed and just being wholesome – that’s not the end of his arc. It’s not even the middle. Ghostbur has a long way to go to be at peace with himself and stop haunting the server, to move on to the afterlife.

Him being brought back to life, to return to what he tried to forget, and then most definitely being killed again, quickly or after he’s able to do more damage, returning to his Ghostbur form… Well, that can do two things.

1. It could, possibly help him come to terms with Alivebur’s actions, being so suddenly dropped into his life again and forced to confront the trauma of it all. It could, possibly, maybe, slightly start him on the path to being at peace again.

2. It resets his progress so far.

I know which option is more interesting, more… character-developing.

Sadly, that one is the less likely option.

More trauma doesn’t help deal with previous trauma. Things would have to go a very specific way for Ghostbur being brought back to life to be actually helpful to him. Ghostbur isn’t an amnesiac, not in the way where his memories were just given a soft reset and his only job is to find things that would help him unlock them again. He’s a ghost, no one can fully understand how he works and what he needs, and how he may act if he is brought back to life after being dead for so long.

Not even another ghost.

Who’s to say that Schlatt, if he ever appeared in-character, in ghost form, isn’t just as confused as Ghostbur? Who’s to say he isn’t “traumatized enough” for selective memory? Who’s to say that Schlatt hasn’t moved on like Ghostbur hasn’t been able to?

Wilbur’s not gonna come back soon, if at all. His arc, coming to terms with making L’manburg the way it is now, has relevance to the current events happening (especially since L’manburg’s death seems to be inching closer and closer, and Ghostbur seems to be only related to it, out of all the things in the server.) but it has very little plot-changing importance. Who’s going to listen to the ghost of the man that made this mess happen in the first place? Definitely not the people making similar mistakes to him!

<_><_><_>

Oh I don’t like talking about ab*se. I’ve had enough of Dream and his manipulation of Tommy, it’s why I hated the bastard so much.

But this? Quackity and Tommy having the same mixed feelings towards their manipulator, a deep hatred and also a deep attachment, resulting in just a lot of confusion whenever the bad guy in question is brought up?

Yeah I got nothing.

Mainly because Tommy and Quackity haven’t interacted in that way just yet. Most people, in-character, don’t realize what Quackity went through (that’s a problem for a lot of the characters though, how their trauma is almost invisible, but very loud in terms of their actions.) or at least don’t realize that Quackity wants Schlatt back. Cause no one wants Schlatt back – what are you, crazy?

It is definitely an interesting parallel. How both of them were manipulated, then suddenly left the manipulator, how both of them were introduced to different ways of coping. Tommy with Techno, someone who cares about him and is determined to get revenge on their behalf, someone who is just sensitive enough to realize that you shouldn’t do certain things when talking to the traumatized person. Quackity with The Butcher Army and El Rapids, being given an outlet for his anger and confusion, a way to hide the pain he feels and focus on something entirely else, something he can actually understand and not question endlessly as he slowly goes insane. A way to do good, to try and do good things for other people, or at least fight the bad ones, even though you are utterly baffled at what is going on inside you.

...I’ve been dancing around this for a long time but uh… From experience, both of those ways are valid.

Listen, listen. Facing your trauma, going on the tough path of healing from it and coming out a different person, one not affected by whatever was done to you – that’s good. That is a good recipe for moving on to bigger and better things, this should be the path taken.

But (not) realizing your trauma, and instead deciding to flourish in spite of your manipulator, becoming stronger than them or even fighting them (or whoever you blame for your trauma) head on and WINNNING, purely out of spite and anger that you were actually that weak or that you didn’t notice what they were doing to you, remembering the things that you thought were normal and now being horrified at what your life was like…

The whole SMP needs therapy. They all need to have a sit-down, and a talk, and come to certain conclusions about themselves and whoever wronged them, and repeat that for a few days (weeks, months maybe). They all need to learn healthy ways to cope.

But this is the Curse. The Author’s Curse.

Therapy is boring.

Yes, we love these characters. Because we love them, we would much rather see them healthy and well-adjusted, and ending the cycle of ab*se.

...But the SMP isn’t peaceful enough for that.

More from the writing perspective – the foundation of the server right now is violence. Endless, gruesome violence, it has become the number one way to deal with whatever is plaguing you. Talking has worked once (The Pet War (?) ending), but even then it was after extreme violence. And this will continue, because any other way of dealing with things has just become… irrelevant. Some people can only speak one language, and it’s not one that is healthy.

So not only do all of the people on the server need to be shouted at for being so violent, bullied into considering more peaceful options for things, but also the people who cannot or will not change their mind, because they have become delusional with their power and only believe in that singular language, must be eliminated.

It all comes back to Dream. It all comes back to more violence. The Curse cannot be broken.

But… It can be, if used properly, a way to at least eliminate most of the evil in the server.

You’d need a whole guidebook for that though.

And the problem wouldn’t be fixed.

That server reset’s gonna be a huge part of the lore!

<_><_><_>

And I know I may be coming off as aggressive here like “Oh stop making up headcanons that will never happen” but that’s not my intention because if I truly took that standpoint I would be incredibly hypocritical. I thought Techno was going to be this battle-hardened warrior, able to detach himself from everything in this world to focus on war – mans turns out to be the most secretly caring person in the server. I sometimes dismiss characters that turn out to be actually really powerful (Ranboo, for one. BBH and Puffy for three.), I’m wrong on a lot of things.

So honestly, if you have an AU for Ghostinnit or Ghostbo (Toast) or Dadschlatt or Dream redemption arc, or just irl AU, Harry Potter AU, Starinnit – fucking amazing. You play out your canon-divergent dreams you funky little writers/artists. I’ll stay over-analyzing stuff over here, don’t mind me! Your ideas are super cool, and you can bully me for not having any hcs and never thinking of an AU of my own. /gen

#dream smp #dream smp analysis #dream smp theory #honkmeta #dream smp meta #gotta start using those tags #and as always #tell me im wrong on something! #debate! #i put this stuff out here to be ridiculed dont worry about hurting my feelings im too smol to bully you /lh

[bonesandthebees]

So many thoughts on the latest chapter. I'm probably going to send multiple asks about it. I've been lurking for a while and sent my first ask a couple of days ago (the question about planning vs intuition). Has 🔥 anon been taken yet? If not then I'll be going by it

Onto the analysis! Splitting this up into different characters (or rather Wilbur's relation to them)

Techno: Technoblade definitely knows that he messed up last time and he wants to fix things. He's smart, and he and Phil are almost always on the same page. Through talking to Phil and Tommy, Techno has a pretty good idea of what happened.

Would I be right in saying that out of all of the characters, Technoblade has the most objective perspective? He's obviously going to be biased towards Tommy, because he is to Tommy what Phil is to Wilbur. But it's not that simple, because Techno tends to think more logically while Phil thinks more emotionally (which is shown later in the chapter). Basically, I think Techno makes mistakes, but he's ultimately thinking about things in a pretty holistic view. That's my theory anyway

That's why I think he's so chill about Wilbur not wanting to talk to Tommy. He probably understands why Wilbur's upset, or at the very least, he seems to respect Wilbur's autonomy. He's not trying to manipulate Wilbur towards some goal. He just wants to be well informed about what's going on

(if this reading of him is accurate, then I respect the hell out of Techno in this fic)

Anyway, this all culminates in that comparison with Eret, where Wilbur draws attention to how what Technoblade is doing is very different from what Eret would've done. That brings me back to autonomy and manipulation. Technoblade respects Wilbur. That's the important thing. He respects Wilbur, while somebody like Eret was always somewhat disingenuous. Although it sometimes may be the better move to do what Eret did, pulling Wilbur aside and nudging him to apologize, Technoblade instead values Will as a person and as an adult. He's not going to make Wilbur do anything

When Wilbur is in a better place, I think he's going to end up trusting Techno because of this one small interaction

That was so much longer than I thought it was going to be, so splitting this ask up into parts about different characters

(1/?)

ohohoho welcome to the named anons club flame anon! I really gotta make a list of you guys now so I don't get confused lmao. happy to have you here!!

yeah, you're not wrong in saying technoblade has one of the most objective perspectives in the fic. although he's close with tommy, he also recognizes the situation at hand and is able to take a step back to view the reality of the situation. the thing I want to emphasize is it's not that techno is not emotional. it's actually that he's a lot more emotionally intelligent than phil is. phil feels a whole lot of emotions, but he doesn't really know how to process them. techno is a lot better at managing his own emotions in comparison. and he's definitely seeing things in a more holistic way.

regarding the respect thing, that's actually not something I'm going to confirm or deny. it could be that he respects wilbur's autonomy, or maybe he just doesn't want to get involved. because keep in mind, it's technically beneficial for AE to have the brothers fighting, since wilbur is the one who has been pushing tommy to refuse to join this entire time. not saying that's techno's motivation, but it could be :)

I love leaving things up to reader interpretation lol

#ask #flame anon #the stars and their children