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kaypeace21 · 2 years

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S4 part 2 predictions

Lol I don't feel super confident one way or another but... who Cares . This is for fun XD. Also Will mention some movies said to inspire s4.

- el probably does everything in her power to save her friends. Especially max who is still cursed and vecna's target. El may look through max's happy memories to save her- since a happy memory of el's defeated henry/vecna in the past. Vecna probably follows them through the dream scape and corrupts the memories . I know some leaks said max goes into a coma? Which is still possible-I guess. But I think it would make more sense for it to be el (for a myriad of reasons- post explaining the reasons/foreshadowing here). But the most obvious reason is henry (and 9 in the comics) when they pushed their powers too far- both fell into comas. And the fact rolling an 11 (in ep 1) doesn't defeat vecna is also foreboding. She'll probably push her powers too far trying to save her friends, close the mini gates, etc ... but by s5 she'll recover . I also believe given el's powers she'll be able to more easily infiltrate vecna's mind (aka the scene of el at the creel house in the part 2 teaser).regardless of what happens, the only real way to defeat vecna is through El AND teamwork of her friends. She can't do it alone.

- hawkins is probably destroyed or partially destroyed due to : vecna, hawkins angry mob (caused by jason), and or sullivan's troops.

- I posted this theory before part 1- and part 1 just made me more worried it's true. I'm worried joyce and co are stranded/stuck in the soviet union at the end of s4. Joyce threatening yuri that "we're in the middle of nowhere. No one for miles". Still applies to joyce and co too . Not to mention they repeat multiple times (like literally 5 times) that the soviet union wants to capture joyce after she sabotaged their usa operation (even paying others to capture her) . Also...because some s4 movies have the shitty dead beat dad get custody - I just start thinking a cliffhanger could be lonnie getting custody of Will. Like tokyodrift was inspo for s4: dead beat dad who is into cars, g*ns, and who hasn't seen his son in many years gets custody when he's a teenager. Yikes.

- I don't necessarily think Will will be stuck in the ud by the end of s4 even though i previously made a theory post about it (but I get it's still a decent possibility) . I still think it may be more likely he's stuck with the human monster lonnie (and his support system of family and friends is gone inbetween the time jump of s4 and 5). Because alot of the inspo films had the ab*sive parent isolate the kid on purpose. 😞

- it would be interesting for Will, jonathan, and mike to see hallucinations caused by vecna- that reveal more about their character's inner psyches (and the byers' pasts). The s4 movies kind of imply it-talked about that,and the possibilities, in detail here . And I mean- jonathan talks about his fear of becoming his dad, and argyle calls it a " nightmare cycle". And we have a nightmare monster (who has a habit of shapeshifting into teenager's family members- to mess with them ). Wasted opportunity for jonathan if nothing happens there. But who knows we may have to wait till s5. Since duffers said 'the ud being stuck on the day Will disappeared'- won't be adressed until s5. So we may have to wait till s5 for that + maybe the same for Will's (possible pyrokinetic?) powers too? But who knows maybe we'll see something in s4.A part of me still hopes Will lights vecna on fire lol- maybe while vecna is shapeshifting as lonnie . Literally only say this cause 3 movies (that are inspo for s4) incorporate someone in a dream world lighting on fire a dream version of their ab*sive parent. And will the wise has fire powers. Plus the fact- henry/vecna says a "cure" for him isn't possible. And el/Will are associated with "the cure": Will's "the cure" poster/ El being called "the cure". Plus all of their luke/leia twin parallels. And Will saying to El "we'll fix it together "- hopefully means something. Superpowered twins- please.

- at the very least Will's psychic connection with the ud will be mentioned again in s4. And be useful. Dustin in s4 "maybe the answer we're looking for is in this vague drawing. God we need Wiill." Max: "yeah, no shit" .

- high key mostly wishful thinking. But i also hope kali returns in s4 or s5 . Narratively would make sense. There's def some s4 foreshadowing that makes me think she may come back eventually. But we'll see.

- I talked about a lot of possible deaths , linked below in last bullet point. But low key think yuri prerending to be someonelse, and lying and saying a bear clawed at "yuri's heart " . May be a hint of how he's probably k*lled later by the demogorgan. Murray later to yuri : "bears... who knew you could see your own future ". Fyi in s1 and 2 the demogorgan was compared to a bear.

- eddie has a 50/50 chance of making it. Either he dies or (possibly?)ends up in jail as part of the bleek cliffhangers . Like , we had dustin in s3 mention a "patsy" (someone innocent to blame for crimes) . And we also had a s4 scene where a guy mentions "jail" and the " justice system being a joke"- then it pans to eddie. And I suppose it would go with the prison storylines this season (El/hopper's storylines).Also one s4 documentary film "paradise lost" - had a goth guy similar to Eddie arrested for m*rders he didn't commit (the small town blamed him due the satanic panic - they cited him wearing black, and liking: rock music, stephen king, horror books/movies, paganism ,etc as evidence of his crimes - I wish I was joking ).

- hopefully m*leven finally breakup- amicably. I don't think byler is officially dating by s4 ... but some romantic feelings will probably be heavily implied . Curious about Will's painting- hopefully it's a callback to the first time they met on the swings. Sigh ... if I have to wait till s5 to have confirmed reciprocated byler. Fine. But if this love triangle can end ... please let it be sooner rather than later. I'm so tired XD

- I feel like vecna may not have to curse all of the crew to cause illusions for them (similar to when he was little): so we may see him affect various characters this way, without full on cursing them? Pretty sure lucas hitting Jason is an illusion. But yeah given how jason's crew feels like Lucas is a "traitor" - they Def will come for him along with rest of hellfire. But I think lucas makes it out safe by the end of s4.

- so yeah s4 will probably end with some bleek cliffhangers. Joyce and co maybe are stranded in the soviet union at the end of s4. There may be multiple deaths (post about all the other possible deaths and why- here). Hawkins ,their home town, may be wrecked. El may be in a coma and ...taken into gov custody ? Will may be taken (away from his brother and friends), because Lonnie got custody? If eddie actually makes it out alive (50/50 on that) he may be taken into police custody . Honestly even if I'm totally wrong - I just don't expect a happy ending... that's reserved for s5.

#el hopper #max mayfield #lucas sinclair #mike wheeler #will byers #joyce byers #jonathan byers #stranger things #stranger things theory #byler

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kittenkatbar · 2 years

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i know like 80% of my volume two takes are not the current popular opinions, but i’m going to keep running my lil gay fingers across my phone keyboard lmao

i don’t think mike was written poorly. i think there’s a TON of factors into why he acted the way he did this season.

first, i’m operating on the fact that he wouldn’t have said any of those things to el on his own. if will hadn’t pushed him along and given him support and the words to say, i don’t think we would’ve gotten a monologue. at least, not one where he tells el he loves her like that. hell, he almost didn’t keep going until will told him to. i think that’s why they had him repeat the superhero stuff: that was mike being honest. he still hasn’t learned, he still is falling into hero worship, and now we’ve been set up for that to bite him in the ass in s5. that was mike doing what mike does every. single. time. someone he cares about is in danger: he panicked. he was frantic and grasping at straws for anything he thought he could use to help el. because he does care! he almost certainly loves her, too! just maybe not in the way he thinks he should. and i think el is learning that, as well. mike saying i love you didn’t make her win, didn’t keep her safe—by the end of the season she’s barely even speaking to him. we have that big monologue just to have mike and will have the last heart to heart? to have mike reassure will in a way he can only reassure el when he’s panicking? idk guys. he can open up to will, but he can’t open up to el without will’s help now?

i’m also still operating on the “mike was weird to will because he doesn’t understand his feelings for will and/or el” theory. because that wasn’t disproved? like at all. if anything it was reinforced every time he opened up to will a bit more and wasn’t weird, but seemed to hesitate to ask will to elaborate or push him every time will opened up. he wasn’t weird in the packing scene or the junk car scene. he was soft. he was soft in the car el-but-actually-will confession scene, too. mike is oblivious, canonically. he hasn’t understood his friends’ anger in the past, or el’s. i know we all think he is always attuned to will’s feelings, but that’s not true? at all? he’s attuned to will acting quiet. in earlier seasons he notices when will is scared because will shuts down, tries to hide his fear, is quiet but jumpy. he doesn’t notice will is pissed at him in s3 until they have their big fight, so it’s not out of character for him to be oblivious to will having big emotions. he notices will rolling his eyes and sulking in the beginning of s4 because he is pushing himself back from mike and el in those scenes. he’s distancing himself and in mike’s eyes that is what means will isn’t okay. it is also important to remember that mike also knows will doesn’t like people hovering over him and constantly asking what’s wrong. it makes sense mike wouldn’t do that. in the car confession scene, when will is pretending his feelings are el’s, he’s getting visibly upset. he’s not being withdrawn. mike can see that will is showing emotion, that he’s not pulling back and being distant, which in mike’s eyes probably means will is okay because he’s not shutting down. and because we know mike is meant to be oblivious (which tbh, par for the course for most teen boys?) he probably assumes will is upset in that moment because of everything with el too, which is not a a bad fucking guess? that’s his sister, it would make sense.

it also feels kinda like a lot of people like to pretend that mike is always soft? which is weird to me? like yeah he has a lot of soft moments, and is overall a good kid for sure.. but he has always had an attitude problem. like literally every season, lmao. he’s a dick to el and lucas and hopper and dustin and max and will. many times over. across all seasons. mike is a brat. he has always been! he puts his own feelings first, and sometimes puts his own shit aside long enough to give a fuck about the people around him. but it usually takes him royally fucking up for that to happen. he’s been a bit shitty and a lot oblivious towards will this season, but he hasn’t really fucked up enough to snap himself out of his selfishness? the closest we get to that is the monologue, but that’s still half him panicking and half will at best.. and not really him fixing a fuck up at all. like el being upset he won’t say “i love you” is valid, but not really a fuck up on his part? like he doesn’t have to tell her that if he doesn’t feel like it’s right. i know he does-again during a panic scene like he did the first time in s3-but it’s still not a fuck-up-fix, imo. mike didn’t do anything egregious this season outside of being a normal shitty teen boy sometimes? like i feel like a lot of what i’m seeing seems like we’re asking for a lot of emotional intelligence from a fifteen year old who is currently in yet another terrifying situation where other people are in danger? we even see him say that in the van (something along the lines of “i know with everything going on right now..”).

i think in season five we will get mike realizing a lot more—the painting, his feelings (exactly what they are for el and/or will), recognizing that will is in fucking love with him, how much will has done to help him and el be happy despite that.. and i think it’s going to be rough for him. i think mike will have to think about other people outside of his panic or his own fuck ups. he will have to be worried about will outside of will being in direct danger. he will have to understand emotions in a way that he hasn’t really had to before. in a more adult way, because he’s growing up and learning that a handshake doesn’t always fix friendships. sometimes you have to sit down and talk.

#st4 spoilers #stranger things spoilers #stranger things #stranger things analysis #mike wheeler #mike wheeler season four #michael wheeler #st4 analysis #mike wheeler analysis #byler

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archive2394934 · 1 year

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Wait, how do you think the battle is gonna happen...?

Ok so, thing is. Vecna has only two weaknesses: Fire/heat. And compassion/positive emotions. (For lack of a better way to describe) The fire/heat thing was obvious and already explored in previous seasons but we established throughout S4 that positive feelings/thoughts are very potent in weakening/disrupting "Vecna's curse" as well. That's what the music was all about.

I always think its funny that people in this fandom think coming at Vecna with sadness and hate and anger is going to Do Something and that he wont just eat that and spit it back in their faces because thats literally his thing. You cannot out-rage and out-hate the hate fueled rage-monster. No one wields sadness, hate and anger with more horrifying proficiency than Vecna. We've literally seen canonly that the only times in which Eleven has been able to get the upper hand on Vecna is when she is channeling positivity and love. The Mileleven antis are gonna hate this but Mike and Els scene in the piggy back was important because - no matter what you feel about them as a romantic couple - Mike DID do something GOOD with his lil speech to her. If Mike didn't start talking his ass off and helping Eleven remember all the Good Times, the happy memories and things and people she holds dear in her heart Eleven never would have got the strength to come back at Vecna and Max would have been dead-dead. Anyway, the thing about Will? Will is the cleric. In DnD clerics are healers and spellcasters - they're described to be in connection with a "higher power" and their trade mark is basically summoning fireballs.

This is not to say I think Will literally has some kind of literal pyrokinetic powers. But then again I'm not gonna rule that out completely, we've got a lot to see and cover yet. Anyway, Wills "powers" that we do know of right at the moment are in the fact he shares a whole psychic metaphysical connection with Henry presumably through the "higher force" they're both linked into.

Unlike Henry though Will has not been twisted and wholly transformed into something vengeful and cruel by his pain and suffering. Will has had love, support, people to help him and as a result Will is a supremely compassionate individual.

And like I MIGHT be being insane here but Will could very well be the first and only person to actually acknowledge Henry's pain, genuinely and to perhaps actually offer him a genuine sense of empathy that no one else ever has (Something that we saw Eleven try to do in the piggy back episode but failed.) and perhaps that's going to be the thing that makes all the difference when facing Vecna. Because we did see in the piggy back episode that Henry wasn't necessarily beyond reach, its just Eleven ultimately couldn't get through. But the fact he had such a reaction to hearing Brenner was dead, stopped, listened, and started conversing with her in a VERY human way that we had not seen from Vecna before that, imo it goes to show hes probably not entirely beyond reason. Some other “unrelated” canon moments I think could back this are: How fast Billy's "corruption" turned around just by him being able to remember his mother, who he loved. A brief moment of compassion rocked Billy's shit in a good way. How, Dart, a literal Demogorgon that was shown love by Dustin was able to turn its back on the ""hive mind"" because of this.

Other fun things to consider here are: Essentially Clerics aren't born they're made. Whether they choose to become a cleric themselves or they're CHOSEN by a "deity". We know Will is the latter. Interesting thing here is Vecna, via DnD lore, is also considered a deity himself. He's a supremely powerful demi-god. And I presume we're all aware of the theory that Vecna chose Will personally back in S1? But this begs the question why? Why did Vecna choose Will and essentially "create" someone who could maybe “defeat” him? Is this some kind of cry for help? What does this mean? We know he didn't go after Will to kill him because if that were the case there was no reason for all that elaborate bullshit. Homie could have just snapped the kid in two across dimensions. (( I personally am not 100% sure if I believe the theory that Vecna chose Will personally and that the S1 Demogorgon was just a poxy body for Vecna. I’m not ruling it out at all, because it could add up, and I do think due to the existance of the “hive mind” Vecna does kind of have an “influence” (even if indirect) everywhere, but I think it might have been more a ‘twist of fate’ type thing. Currently I feel more like the Demogorgon just happened to get through the gate and it proceeded to promptly do Demogorgon things (We have a hint these things are parasitic in a sense that it seems they use living bodies as incubators for their offspring) and Will ended up connected to the upside drown through “the vine” which linked him to the MF and then in turned linked him to Henry. (Perhaps without Vecna himself being fully aware?) My main point of reasoning here is I think there is something interesting in the flash backs we see in the piggy back episode when Henry explains his “transformation” to El and his “plan” and El has that moment of revelation that Vecna was always connected to things. There is no actual flashback of anything that happened to Will. To El, yes, but not to Will. It seems to suggest Vecna’s attempts to break though and make “doors” are different to the “doors” El “accidently” created that showed the Demogorgon and the MF trying to get through in S1 and 2. For whatever reason season 1 and 2 are shown separately to season 3. El says “It was you. Always you” Vecna nods and says “All I needed was someone to open the door. And you did that for me. Without even realizing it. Didn’t you?” We’re then shown a few flash backs of scenes in season 1. El touching the Demogorgon and the initial accidental opening of the gate in the lab that allowed the Demogorgon to get through and start Demogorgoning. Then Vecna says “And when you did realize, you chose to resist.” We’re then shown El dematerializing the Demogorgon in season 1 and closing the MF out in season 2. Vecna then says “So I sought a means to open my own doors. I sought... Your power.” This is when we’re shown scenes of season 3, dealing with Billy and the Spider Monster and Vecna says “So, don’t you see? Once again, you have freed me.” And again this might mean nothing and I’m being nuts but I find it interesting how the flash back scenes are separated and the initial attacks from the Upside-Down with the Demogorgon and the MF are separated from the attacks Vecna admits were his attacks to open “his own” doors. I’m coupling this with the fact theres very little suggestion of Vecna in S1 and 2 (the fans have made the theories and I’m not saying they're not fully believable but In s3 there is almost explicit suggestions of Vecna being there in some way when you look back after watching s4 where as the two other seasons his presence is much more... subdued at best) So why did Vecna only start taking an active role in s3 and more obviously in 4? There is a heavy suggestion Vecna was somehow incapacitated during S1 and 2 and even though his “influence” was there he wasn't there consciously/purposely. Which wouldn’t be hard to believe given we’ve seen our psychics fall into comas after exhausting their powers. We’ve even seen them loose their powers. And Vecna did explicitly say he needed El’s powers. Why did he need El’s powers when he usually has more than enough of his own? SO In the VR game, we’re shown Henry/Vecna Doing A Lot Of Shit since its all from his POV. I think they described it as “taming” the Upside Down. So this suggests that in doing all that, Vecna wiped himself out and couldn’t personally participate in the initial attempts to break into Hawkins. (This also might be the period in which Henry was fully “transformed” into Vecna bc we know he wasn’t all the way there when we first saw him make contact with the MF’s physical body) He was slowly building strength during S1 and 2 when El/the kids were dealing with the Demogorgon and the MF/Demo dogs. Which could be evidence to the idea that even though these creatures are all connected to a “hive mind” and can be seen as “one” they can also act independently of each other (I think we’ve almost seen this proven with the demo creatures on occasion. They do be just doing their thing until they’re specifically “called” on) Or at least even though Vecna and the MF seem to be “one”, (pun maybe intended) they can act independently of each other, since we also saw very little of the “MF” in season 4 and instead it was all Vecna. I mean not to say they don't have constant influence over each other but yeah, they don’t seem to have to fully be present in each others shit)) We also have a suggestion that Vecna has precognition. Eg: he can apparently see the future or some version of it. This is what is suggested in the scene with Nancy. He literally tells her this: "Now that you've seen where I've been, I would very much like to show you where I am going." We're also not sure why he chose Nancy in particular to show this “vision” to but I dont believe these things were done without reason on his behalf. I dont even think that Nancy, Steve and Robin got the upper hand on him by accident. I think he let them have that win on purpose. Heres another question though: dealing with the MF. Did the mindflayer “poison” Henry? Or did Henry perhaps “accidently” poison the mindflayer? This is not gonna sound very Vecna sympathizer of me but its possible the mindflayer was more neutral until Henry linked with it and his own anger and sadness got sucked into it.

This being said this doesn't entirely explain all the little suggestions that the MF reached out to Henry first and things occurred the more the opposite way around. (Not to say Henry wasn’t already angry and sad - but that just seemed to be what made him the perfect “target”. Also, in the original script of the scene for Henry’s “fall” into the upside down it seems more explicit that he was weirdly targeted by the entire environment in a way we have never really seen before. He was particularly targeted by tentacles that SOMETHING had to be controlling and that something WAS NOT him. This could prove Vecna didn’t “choose” Will personally and something else did bc Will is the only other person the environment of the Upside Down could be described as acting kinda weird toward ) SO Yeah did The MF choose Will or did Vecna choose Will? Its currently unclear WHY exactly in canon that Vecna/The MF would "choose" Will but the thing is we know Will has been chosen and he is connected to them/him. People think it was just to be used as a spy but no, I think its bigger than that. We know Will has pretty much always been likened to a "cure" while Henry/Vecna is likened to a "curse" and we've also seen the MF at least work as a type of poison/infection/virus in a very PHYSCIAL way (s2 and then s3, which seemed to be a team effort by Vecna and the MF together) while "Vecna's curse" has similar connotations in a metaphorical/emotional way.

When I personally draw inspo for Will and Henry I draw it from places like Silent Hill, with Alessa and Heather. And also places like the Ring with Samara/Sadako to a slightly lesser extent.

What they all have in common and relation to Henry/Vecna/Will is they were powerful psychics who had bad mothers, were horrifically abused and their 'deaths' resulted in their transformation to supernatural forces of rage and vengeance. This being said, due to the fact that none of them were inherently evil, they all have a soul that is split and/or connected to a "good" half- and there is a concept of being "reborn" and essentially living the 'good life' they were denied through this "good half." Its not uncommon with this trope (Not sure what its called as a trope but I know it exists in a couple different stories) for the 'good half' and the 'bad half' to come in conflict but they usually they end up "merging" somehow - whether this is like literal/physical or is completed with the "death"/neutralization of the "bad" half. And we know we have had this whole “concept” of “becoming whole” throughout the show. We also have the color theories with how Hawkins, the upside down and Vecna’s dimension are presented by primary colors of “Blue” “Yellow” and “Red” which typically stand for “Mind” “Emotion” and “Body”. We know that these are suppose to be in interdependence and harmony but in ST they’re kind of shown as “separated.” Maybe in some way these dimensions are meant to come together?

But that's all really just theory and in no way am I saying that's exactly whats gonna happen and I’m totally rambling kind of off tangent but I think at least the aesthetic references are there. What I do think is Will is going to have an impact on Vecna in an "emotional" sense, so to speak. And thats the "key" to "winning" not so much the the idea of winning in a "physical" battle, if a physical battle is actually going to happen at all, and part of me is a little doubtful because what do we really think Will is gonna physically do against Vecna? Probably not that much, being realistic. He might be able to molotov him someway for some reason like the teens did sure but I don't think the focus is gonna be a big physical fight between them, I dont think thats gonna be the “focus” or whatever.

#henry creel #vecna #001 #will byers #william byers #stranger things #once again I wrote up such a huge post about my s5 thoughts but It got eaten by tumblr #this touches on a few of things I wrote about tho so we're gonna pretend this is it #also i think its great that while I was writing this my playlist decided “The one” and “The gift” from the call of duty zombies sound track #was the correct musical/lyrical vibes for the post and you know what? It was very right #ALSO I should really post my whole crazy headcanons about Henry/Will/Zodiac signs/Elemental opposites etc #bc im really crazy u have no idea

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subterra-rose · 1 year

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hard agree with your toh concepts post... i literally think about what's going on with belos' goop curse and how it happened plus also palisman carving, how Exactly belos came to power, and collector and titan lore Every day of my life. and plus like. PLEASE. and i know it's Kinda implied i guess but HOW has peepaw belos survived for 400 YEARS!!!! Damn!!!!!!

and ik im also the anon who's sent asks about them before but every single thing grimwalker related im also insane about and slightly salty there's not more info on... plus like. hunters inner conflict with the whole Clone thing in general? and like hunter Literally was reading a book called The Grimwalker Extinction. Tf was going on with that!! i wonder do average folk in the boiling isles even know what a grimwalker is?? does it vary from person to person??

also. How did lilith get to keep her palisman in the emperor's coven. the people (me) crave answers. i love her silly bird. obvious disclaimer though im not actually mad about these things it's just. shakes fist angrily at cloud (mouse)

Okay anon I’m about to crazy under the cut

So first off, in my mind the deal with Lilith and her palisman is partly due to two factors: 1) Belos needs to make sure the time loop is complete and taking away her staff might have impeded that 2) I always HC’d that he kept a close eye on the Clawthornes (maybe due to Evelyn…?) because they were known palistrom carvers, so keeping a relatively neutral relationship with them would be better for him in the long run. Taking her palisman away might’ve have caused even greater tension and I think maybe it would be a risk he’s willing to take to make sure his plans stay secure. I also think Mike Socks the Raven has the strongest plot armour in the show. ( Lilith is also badass as hell so she would’ve whipped Belos’ old ass like she did 370 years ago if he tried taking it /j)

The theory I tend to stick to for Belos’ aging and extended lifespan hinges on the speculation that palisman are shown to have longevity (ie Flapjack). Personally, I’m ascribed to the idea that every 10 years is about 1-2 years physically for Philip at this point? However, given he can possess the grimwalkers and other living things, I kind of feel like maybe this might not be his original body? Or at least he might have used a previous grimwalker to heal himself in some way. I wonder if there was a certain point in his lifespan where he started doubting if it was worth it due to the havoc he was wreaking on himself (probably not lol)

Hunter and the extinction of the grimwalkers is super interesting to think about bc it’s like? They’re clones, how could they really be going extinct? I sort of figure they were regulated at a certain point because it could get messy. I kind of think of it like how pet cloning is a thing as bad as it sounds. You’re not guaranteed to get something that was 100% the same as the original because of the assortment of genes. Maybe after a while it got banned because it was an unpredictable science? I feel like a lot of the books we see in the Bonesborough library kind of imply you can find these topics, but I’d imagine witches who are more specialized know about them? I don’t think Hunter would’ve snuck back to the castle to find books about grimwalkers, so that’s probably the safest bet imo?

My Belos goop HC kind of has to do with the grimwalker recipe? Palistrom is known to act as a source of keratin which supports the skin mainly (and epithelial cells) and heals wounds. I think because of this, palistrom not only acts as a stabilizer for his form, but the magic he absorbs acts as a conduit for the glyphs until it’s metabolized if that makes sense? I kind of wish there was something about how he discovered they would help though? Maybe he saw a witch get injured and a palisman heal them, then attempted to do the same?? We don’t really get any sort of implication like that outside of Belos I think except in Thanks for Them? And even then I assumed that’s because Hunter was a grimwalker at first, not that it was an ability that palisman had in the first place.

I could go off more, but I’ll leave it at this rn lol

#asks #anon #toh hcs #long post #anyways this is my rant for the day I til I’m off work LOL

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beepboop358 · 3 years

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My Byler theories/predictions for S4

Since s4 is already confirmed to not be the last season, I don’t think Byler will officially get together in s4. I do think that we are definitely going to get a large amount of Byler’s development in s4 though, we just aren’t at the finish line yet. Since Byler has been being developed all through each of the seasons, I think the writers are playing the long game with Mike and Will. I really appreciate a queer romance that is so well developped, especially in something so popular! I think the season will end on a note where it’s understood what Mike has been struggling with, It’s made known that Will is gay, and that Mike has feelings for Will, and Will has feelings for Mike.

My predictions/theories for Byler in s4:

Mike might be acting a little off at school and Dustin is going to notice his odd behavior and ask what’s up

I think Mike will be getting in trouble at school and at home (based on whenever he doesn’t have Will/El around he does stupid things - like graffitti the bathroom wall, plagiarize essays, curse at adults, etc.) I don’t know if Mike knows about Eddie dealing drugs, but he might and he might get drugs from Eddie and do them to cope with everything he is struggling with. His parents might ground him for doing drugs, and forbid him from going to visit the Byers, and then we could get our runaway smalltown boy montage! LOL

Lonnie might come to visit the Byers in California for Will’s birthday. He will probably show up because he thinks they have money now, or he wants to sue Starcourt like he wanted to sue the quarry in s1. Mike will also be there visiting for Will’s birthday. Lonnie will mock Will and make fun of him like he always did, but he will also hate Mike. Lonnie will definitely notice Will and Mike’s dynamics and he will definitely comment about it. He might even call them homophobic slurs like we know he used to do with Will when he was younger. Lonnie will probably make Will cry and Mike upset. Lonnie might possibly “out” him and Mike before they are out and confirm it themselves. Some of the movies on the stranger writers twitter for s4 also hint at this, as well as having the baseball references. There are also hints to Will’s birthday throughout the show: The rainbow happy birthday mug seen in the crazy together scene, the “sorry i forgot your birthday card” in Will’s room from Lonnie, and Joyce’s speech in the shed discussing Will’s 8th birthday and his “rainbow ship”. Jonathan also mentions how Lonnie made him kill a rabbit on his 10th birthday and he cried for a week after, just more hints that if Lonnie shows up for Will’s bday, it’s gonna be bad.

Mike might get Will a watch for his birthday. This would reference the clocks being central to the s4 plot, and “not wanting things to change/turning back the clock” in Hopper’s letter

Will is being homophobically bullied at his new school again, possibly references to Will having HIV/AIDS because the height of the epidemic was in the 80’s and it was very stigmatized

Mike will call Will more than he will call El. Will might be slightly surprised by this, El’s frequent calling will annoy Mike and he might turn off his walkie talkie. (basically the reverse of what Mike said would happen in the s3 ending mileven scene)

Mike and Will will be in the same location for most of the season, like s2. They will not leave each other’s sides for the majority of the time they are together.

S4 Group Predictions:

- El, Will, Mike trio together with Jonathan and Argyle. (we will get some obvious tension between El, Will, and Mike, and Mike will hate Argyle at first)

- Robin, Steve, Erica, Max, Dustin, Lucas, Vickie, Eddie, Nancy

- Joyce, Murray, etc?

- Hopper and the other Russians (Dimitri, etc)

The rift between Mike and El will continue to grow.

When Mike comes to visit, she will notice he seems much more interested in Will.

El will ask why the bullies call Will those things (queer/fairy/gay/homo, probably f slurs too), what it means and if he really is “a queer”.

I don’t know if Will is going to come out to El. They have never interacted before, and I doubt Will trusts her or really likes her much mainly, because of Mike. Unless they get super close during the time not portrayed on screen between s3 and s4, or by being all each other has in California, I don’t know if he will come out to El. I could see this going either way depending on how their friendship develops. I definitely do not think Will is going to tell El he likes Mike, even if he does confide in her he is gay. I think she will find out eventually but in some other way, probably just from Mike’s behavior towards Will.

El will eventually realize she doesn’t actually love Mike and let go of the ‘romance’ aspect of their bond, but still highly value him as a friend.

Mike might be called homophobic slurs at school as well. Mike will definitely be teased (regardless of his sexuality) because he is in the hellfire club and since satanic panic is sweeping the town, people look at D&D as if it is a satanic game, and he will be teased because of that.

Based on the leaked bts pics, I have a theory a cheerleader, or someone else, might show interest in Mike. Mike will not reciprocate and she will call him out for it asking why he doesn't like her because “any other guy at this school would” or something like that, maybe even ask “what are you gay or something”. It would certainly be good for Mike’s narrative but idk if it will happen.

Will may confide in Jonathan about his feelings for Mike and the things the bullies say to him at school. Jonathan will be supportive of Will, as will Joyce. I think he will also try to protect Will from Lonnie and they will both defend Will to Lonnie.

I think we need a scene of Mike with his Mom telling him to follow his heart, like who you like, etc. because life is too short to waste it being miserable or something like that. This could be inspired by Mike’s parents seperating, but idk. This could also encourage Mike to initiate more romantic things with Will.

I would love to get a scene of Will confronting Mike for “Joining another party”, after Will said he wouldn’t.

Will and Mike need to discuss what was said in their fight.

I think since Mike's been holding in a lot of turmoil and struggling with his sexuality for so long we might get a small breakdown scene from him, of him telling Will he’s really sorry for how he treated him last summer, and for all the things he said to Will. Mike will profusely apologize and also hint at how he’s confused and been dealing with a lot.

I think Mike will be the first one to break down and confess he has feelings for Will and has been struggling with coming to terms with his sexuality.

Once Will has confirmation Mike is also struggling with his sexuality, Will might come out to him. I would love for him to reference the fight being like “You were right. I don’t like girls.” (from @itsonlystrange ‘s 4x07 byler script it’s so good!) I don't know if Will will confess he likes Mike to his face or not. I don't think it's likely given how shy Will is and how afraid he is of Mike not reciprocating, but who knows.

Mike may initiate a kiss between him and Will - towards the end of the season probably (eyewitness parallel - explained in my byler proof google slides)

I think Mike and Will might write letters to each other, with some love-y connotations. There is a lot of evidence for this in the canon comics of them writing notes to each other, and that cryptic tweet from stranger writers twitter with a blocked out message and the date Will went missing saying it wasn’t about a couple or hopper. Maybe byler related? This tweet may not be a letter but it might be. The most popular theories are that the message is to Will, “love mike”, which I love. https://twitter.com/strangerwriters/status/1184945905973153792?lang=en

Will has a new haircut (bts pics) and Mike will gush over it. Maybe some gay-panicking too hopefully

I think El will be either physically or at least emotionally distant the entire season from the other kids (again following the pattern of even and odd seasons) El needs some personal development this season, since she didn’t get any in s3.

El might confront Mike and ask if he is gay and if he likes Will, which could be El’s motivation to go off on a journey of her own to learn more about her own life. I don’t think it will be a huge fight, but El might make some references to him always lying to her. I think Mike might just kind of try to talk his way out of it at first, but he will eventually break. This might be a two part discussion and Mike doesn’t admit she is right until later. I don’t think it makes sense for El to be heartbroken (explained in my byler proof slides), just slightly annoyed. This is based off of the movie Tootsie which they borrowed the “gift” idea from in s3 already. In the movie, the girlfriend then after receiving the gift asks “Michael” if he is gay.

I really think eventually El will realize it’s okay because she doesn’t love him romantically either, and once she realizes that her own personal development can really begin.

I think we will see a noticeable change in Mike’s demeanor. I think Mike will mainly just be trying to hide that he is gay now. He joined the hellfire club so we know he’s playing d&d again meaning he is reverting back to his true self, not the weird act he put on in s3 trying to be straight and change himself. He is still struggling, but he knows he likes Will. Regardless that doesn’t mean he is going to be super clear about how he feels. He is going to be extremely afraid of opening up and then getting hurt by Will. He will probably do some of his usual ‘lead Will on and then shut it down’ thing. And I really want Will to call him out on this. This could also lead to Mike breaking down in front of Will and confessing. I think we are going to get a lot of 'Mike gay panicking' moments, he's going to be extremely afraid of being found out/suspected.

Byler things I really want to happen that we may get because they would have narrative significance:

I really want flashbacks to those 3 months of summer between the starcourt explosion and the Byers moving, of moments between Mike and Will when they hang out alone together, with some obvious romantic tension. Like where they are super playful and almost kiss, or they are kind of touchy, or something in the realm of that. I think we need a flashback of something that explains Will’s flirty nature at the very end of s3 with Mike, because he doesn't normally act like that. I want noticeable “is something going on with them?” vibes. This could also happen during the thanksgiving/christmas flashbacks.

I hope we get flashbacks of Mike going to the Byers for Thanksgiving, and the Byers coming back to Hawkins for Christmas. Preferably of some Mike and Will moments that hint at Mike’s confusion or how he feels “so alone” without Will, maybe with some “crazy together” references too! I’d also love some tension between the 3 of them, maybe this is when El starts to get suspicious of Mike liking Will.

Hopefully we get some shots of Mike biking past the byers old house and going to look at castle byers and reminiscing.

I’d love to get a flashback of Mike the day the Byers moved away, of him crying or being upset, alone in his room/basement while looking at Will’s drawings or pictures of Will and him together. Mainly to confirm for people that Mike was upset about Will moving, not as much El.

This one does not seem super probable, but it is a very popular theory. Idk if it’s possible because of location logistics, but if they spend enough time together, I’d love for Mike to get to know Robin better, and Will too. Maybe once everyone comes together at the end of the season, she will notice their dynamics and could help guide and inspire them to be themselves. Hey maybe thats for s5 :) But I do think it’s a possibility that Mike may work at the video store with Steve and Robin, and she will pick up on Mike’s behavior and understand, whether she communicates that to him or not.

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hawkinsschoolcounselor · 3 years

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Just wanted to swing by and say how much I love your blog! It's rare to get such a grounded, adult perspective on ST. Even rarer for Byler. Blogs run by younger fans are often too modern in their expectations - I've seen people claim Byler will openly date or even marry. In the 80s! And there's a lot of tumblrspeak about "disaster gays" and "smol beans" that just makes me uncomfortable. Maybe I'm too old for it but it feels fetishizing and demeaning of the characters. You're much more respectful

“ I appreciate that would be a divisive thing to post, but I just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate you being the adult in the room. You know what you're talking about, and it shows. Even the way you go back and forth on how canon Byler will be matches my own feelings and is refreshingly honest, in a landscape that demands people pick a side and pretend to know it all. It's an annoying feature of Tumblr and I like that you resist it and just give your honest opinions in the moment.” I don’t know if these two Asks are from the same person, but they’re similar and came in around the same time, so I figure I’ll respond to both together.

First, thank you. I appreciate that I can bring a different perspective to the fandom and that you enjoy it.

I make no attempt to be “the adult in the room,” but I do try to be an adult in the room. I feel like everyone has a perspective to bring to the discussion. Some may be, hm, more superficial than others, but I don’t think that makes those posts any less valid, per se. Still, I can see where you’re coming from. I’m not going to condemn the younger fans, as I probably would have been somewhat similar were I still that age, but I would be lying if I said there weren’t posts that I found frustrating and/or counterproductive.

To address concerns specific to the first post, I’ll say that the attitudes of younger Byler fans reflects a modern acceptance of gay teens. I can’t say that I get on board with the terminology, but I can see some nuance behind it. Sometimes it might be minimizing the characters into tropes, but other times it might also be a sort of identification with the characters. If it helps people explore themselves or the world of LGBT identity, then I’m all for it.

At the very least, I don’t think most of those people are trying to be disrespectful. They really don’t have a good understanding of what it would be like to be gay back then, but I see that as a good thing. When I stop to think about it, I feel pretty good seeing that people are so comfortable talking about gay teens that they’ll use such casual language about it. Yeah, it does seem like they don’t take the issues seriously, but that means there’s an opportunity for learning that I hope they’ll take.

Byler may not openly date or marry in the “present” time of the show, but I find it nice that younger fans see it as normal enough to think so. I think older fans such as myself should take that as a point of contrast that tells us that even if Mike and Will would have to be together in secret, the modern climate would allow the writers to show us. Besides, there could always be a epilogue.

Regarding the second post, I think the stubbornness (for lack of a better term) of many people online comes from the fact that we tend to create our own echo chambers. We use tags and join communities to largely target an audience that we think will support us. Dissenting views become less and less common, which results in an echo chamber that serves to reinforce itself. I’m not directing that at any person in particular, rather it’s an observation of social media itself. I actually think Tumblr is a bit better with alternative ideas than, say, Twitter or Reddit.

Still, I think there’s room for improvement. There’s always room for improvement. People can get carried away with criticism or take things too personally, or there can be a combination of the two. We need to be able to disagree without it being personal. I know that I’ve personally adjusted my opinions on many Stranger Things theories based on the thoughts of others here. I thought I was right, but someone else’s take just made more sense and had more support. It didn’t mean that I was stupid, or that the other person was an ass.

I’ve been on the wrong side of it before, though. One time, for example, I pressed someone too hard for more and more support for their theories to the point that they became frustrated with me. I meant no offense, but I still had to accept that I was being a problem, even if I didn’t mean to be. I was simply unconvinced and was hoping they had more to reassure me, but I did a poor job of getting that across. I apologized, and I think we’re still cool, but it was a reminder to me that I can offend without meaning to, and that still warrants an apology and being more careful with my words.

I know some people think changing opinions is a sign of weakness, but I see it as a strength. It’s a sign of intelligence and humility to be able to acknowledge that you’re wrong about something. I started out early on feeling that Byler should be canon, but probably wouldn’t be. Over time, however, through analyzing the show and discussing it with others, I grew to be more confident in it. People were able to show me evidence that I just would not have been aware of had I not come to Tumblr. I’m not the type of person to watch and rewatch scenes to pick them apart or spot the tiniest details, but those who can do that allowed me to use my own skills to get into the psychology of the show.

I think we all have something to add to the conversation if we’re willing to listen in return. I appreciate being called an adult in the room, but I think we all could be if that just means being mindful of one’s words and how they affect others.

#stranger things #byler #online discourse

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0aurelion-sol0 · 2 years

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I really like your color theory posts. If you had to associate each character with a color, how would you assign them and why?

Interesting question!

Sorry it took so long to answer.

The thing is I have something called synesthesia. Synesthesia is when you hear music, but you see shapes. Or you hear a word or a name and instantly see a color. Synesthesia is a fancy name for when you experience one of your senses through another. For example, you might hear the name "Alex" and see green. Or you might read the word "street" and taste citrus fruit.

The word "synesthesia" has Greek roots. It translates to “perceive together.” People who have this ability are called synesthetes.

I can also associate certain things with musics, shapes, feelings or other things or even multiple things at the same time. For example the letter A is associated with the month of August, the number 3 and the color Red. January is purple for me, 0 is white and when I see yellow, I think of drums. When I see browns, I think about the taste of cooked chicken. When I hear a music, I can think of a color.

I don't know why I have that but it is there. It may explain why I am so interested and obsessed in the little details such as acting, camera work, music and colors and see patterns everywhere. My brain is just wired that way.

That's why I also do my own playlists for the show because I associate a lot of things with it when I watch it.

But...back to your question, xD. I am just going to do the main characters so that we don't have to much to go through.

I guess I assign them based on what I see in the show. There is colors here you will probably agree with because you have seen these characters wearing these specific colors and it got stuck in my head.

Or it can be based on their personalities and everything surrounding that. It can even be their stories and how I associate this color with their stories. There's multiple of factors so I can't really give a specific one.

Sometimes I don't even understand why I associate certain things.

But here we go:

_____________________

Joyce Byers is a light brown. It's a color that symbolises appreciation, stabilization and support. It's also a natural color quite like Joyce. She is also very much honest to me and comforting. I think it fits her and who she is.

Jim Hopper is a greyish brown and golden golden yellow. Again same meaning as Joyce but the greyish part is unknown for me, maybe his reliability, he is someone you can count on that's for sure. And golden yellow, I know why, it's because of The Last Of Us especially Joel because he is connected to that color and he has a lot of parallels to Jim.

Mike Wheeler is a neon purple. Gay, Just Gay. No more seriously it fits with the fantasy aspects of Mike and also his superficiality/mask kind of thing sometimes. It also fits since that color is associated with compassion and immaturity.

Eleven is indigo. I think it's because she is associated to that color a lot. For a lot of the positive side that El has, she has a negative side that balances it. It's also quite an unusual color which quite like Eleven who is unusual but there's a certain beauty and strangeness to it that cannot be really matched by any thing. It's also in the comics the name of the project of the numbers. So it fits quite well.

Dustin Henderson is a forest green. I think it fits with his aventurous nature. He is always the hopeful kid in the group. The one who seeks to resolve the problems. I think it fits him well.

Lucas Sinclair is a dark red. He wears a lot of this color. He's a very energetic character. He's always in the action but he had an impulsive side to him in season 1 that fitted with this color. Now it fits more with his vitality.

Nancy Wheeler is a light mauve for me. Intuition and intrigues is heavily connected to this color. Which does fit with Nancy but it's also quite a sensitive and even distant color. Could fit with he self-centerness. It also fit with her "wealthy girl from the perfect family" vibe, it's a very specific color for it. Like cakes or decorations, all these kind of stuffs...

Jonathan Byers is a dark green. Oddly enough, I don't know why... It's meaning wouldn't really fit with him. Maybe because he is a very grounded character... Money, perhaps because of his job issues and financial issues of his family. But I don't know for this one. He would fit more black and grey but I get dark green. Interesting.

Karen Wheeler is amber. It's avery positive energy which I think fits her. It's protective, friendly and warm. Even sensual. But it can irritating or upsetting. Which fits her well, I think.

Martin Brenner is a dark metallic grey. It's quite an unemotional and uneasy color which fits with him. There's domination and power in that color. It intimidates. There's also authority. So yes it fits.

Will Byers is a bright red and black. Definitely has worn a lot of red. Sensitivity, courage, passion. Love definitely. Definitely connects with the color of the ST logo. Sadness and pessimism is definitely part of it too. There's even a mystic feel to it that I think work with his character.

Max Mayfield is orange. She is spontaneous, youthful and optimistic. A very positive character I must say. But she can be quite impatient and even have a certain dominance over others. It's also a warm color.

Steve Harrington is a deep blue. Protection, confidence, reliability. You can trust him and you feel safe with him around. But he can be a bit predictable at times that's for sure.

Billy Hargrove is a light blue and bright red. Just like Will, he is associated with red. Blue is a masculine color which fits for Billy, it's a sad color which does fit in a certain way. It's a pitiful color. A certain loyalty, it's a trait that he has. Red is quite simple, anger, danger, aggresive, impulsive. Confidence definitely, strength and sexuality.

Bob Newby is khaki. Inviting, casual, down to earth, warm, simplistic but in a good way. It is just full of positive traits just like our dear Bob the superhero.

Sam Owens is a pale grey. Again, reliability for this one. Intellect is definitely a no brainer. Mature but can be a bit indecisive. He is quite neutral sometimes and can be controlling, compromising even but he is a comforting figure nonetheless. And it fits with the scientist/doctor aesthetic.

Robin Buckley is a neon pink and a deep blue. For deep blue very much the same meaning as Steve. As for pink, very much gay that is for sure. She is very playful that is for sure. And she's definitely a breath of fresh air and warmth.

Erica Sinclair is a bright pink and a bright yellow. Immaturity that is for sure with some form of playfulness. She seems to have a good intuition. She definitely amuses the crowd that is for sure but she can quite absorbed in herself. She is creative when she needs to be and cautious but in a good way.

And for last Murray Bauman is a dark brown. Obstinant comes to mind for that man. Even to the point of being irritating but you can rely on him. He is quite honest which is a quality. There's also modernism which does fit with hil in some ways.

__________________

There it is you have it! ☺ I hope you enjoyed that. It was quite long, sorry it took that long.

Why not music, letter, number or even an object next time ? Or something else entirely ? Let's see where my synesthesia can go. But please not with all the characters there's too much. So yeah if anyone wants it with something let me know. These are fun even if they take a long time to make.

#stranger asks #stranger asks things

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doomonfilm · 3 years

Text

Review : The Tomorrow War (2021)

HBOMax and Netflix both had entries for the weekend of July 4, so it only makes sense that Amazon Prime would make sure that their presence was felt as well. After the swing at big budget glory that was Infinite, Amazon Prime’s recent science-fiction offering starring Mark Wahlberg, another big box office presence finds himself as the face of an Amazon production in the form of Chris Pratt, the household name whose fame grew after a stint in Parks & Rec and a star-making role as Peter Quill in the MCU’s Guardians of the Galaxy franchise. Based on the trailers, the film has all the trappings of a big budget, special effects and action-driven popcorn flick, so I decided to give it a shot.

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If it weren’t for the deep science-fiction premise, The Tomorrow War could almost be mistaken as a commentary on the Military Industrial Complex, like an inverse take on the Starship Troopers approach. Watching Dan Forestor instantly transform from a teacher and family man into his former war-hardened soldier form feels noble in terms of its intent, and maybe it’s just the cynic in me, but it immediately puts a coldness on the entire future war affair, as if pure detachment is needed to survive a threat that draftees are given zero time to comprehend. The fact that a worldwide draft is implemented to subdue a universal threat is oddly timely for the conspiracy theorist in me, especially in light of the fact that there seems to be an interesting sea change on the horizon in regard to the political stance on public knowledge of extraterrestrial existence. Even with this otherworldly threat standing as antagonist, the film doesn’t hesitate to play on the beat that having the enemy emerge from within is a strong possibility. Despite the way that I’ve rambled about this particular spectrum of The Tomorrow War, Chris McKay and company balance these threads quite well, and all while ramping up the energy and momentum of the film from story beat to story beat.

With Infinite standing as Amazon Prime’s other attempt at rolling out a blockbuster (as previously mentioned), one can garner that a fascination with time-based narratives is becoming a common thread. The Tomorrow War borrows the best aspects of the Terminator franchise and Shane Carouth’s Primer approach to build its framework, which allows the logic needed for this particular suspension of belief to be sold due to concepts that seems easy to explain at face value, but above the head of standard comprehension upon reflection. For example, the acknowledgement of the generational gap that would exist between the young military force from 30 years in the future and the middle-aged draftees helps us dispel the worry for potential time paradoxes due to meeting yourself in the future, but it also sets up a slight John Connor mythos once you realize the Forestor father and daughter relationship will boomerang back and forth through time, at least from Dan’s point of view. Positioning time as fluid and always moving allows McKay and company to implement the fixed point theory of time travel, which instantly raises the stakes of the story due to the built-in ticking clock that comes from making sure you don’t miss your return window. With these two foundational points strongly set, a sort of narrative tuned mass damper is built which allows you to stack all types of realistic and imaginary science on top of what the audience has already accepted.

There seems to always be some sort of indistinguishable gap between the historic big budget releases in theaters and the small sample serving of streaming service attempts, but The Tomorrow War is a huge step in closing that gap when it comes to production value. Viewers will immediately notice the impressive use of effects for both the time travel and the Whitespikes, and when we are given moments to view the post-apocalyptic world, it is stylized enough to have an emotional impact. The combat is appealing to watch, much like the previously mentioned Starship Troopers, as a good mix of novice, survivalist and pure military approaches are mixed in among our characters, with as much adaptive learning being present as there are unfortunate casualties. There are a number of powerful allusions to Vietnam present in the film, such as the use of choppers and air strikes, the post-traumatic stress and shattered worldview of returning soldiers, deserters, and much more. The overall tone of despair and danger weighs heavily on the film, and using unconditional familial love as the driving force of hope rather than traditional romantic love is a nice change of pace.

Chris Pratt does what he does best, mixing his natural charm, humor and ability to symbolically and literally gather the troops in his role as the leading man of The Tomorrow War, while also being one of the most believable members of the combat force. Edwin Hodge matches Pratt’s intensity in terms of combat while providing an edge that stands in opposition to Pratt’s warmth, which makes them a formidable dynamic duo. Yvonne Strahovski manages to present a façade of military leadership to mask a clearly volatile presence of love that must be held in check in order to make sure her mission is successful, which echoes the adoration shown by Ryan Kiera Armstrong in her role as the younger Muri Forestor. Betty Gilpin remains hopeful (and even mentally sharp) in the face of a threat that would cause many similar characters to go to pieces and play their characters as fragile, one-note worried housewives. Sam Richardson provides a solid mixture of comic relief and scientific knowledge, which is welcome within the midst of a very heavy soldier presence that dominates the film, giving the average viewer someone they can latch on to. J.K. Simmons makes a couple of notable appearances (I wouldn’t mind seeing him work with Chris Pratt again in the future), while Jasmine Mathews, Keith Powers, an interestingly cast Mary Lynn Rajskub, Mike Mitchell and Seth Scenall round out the supporting cast.

The Tomorrow War reminds me of my time working at the movie theater back when I was in high school, specifically the summer that Independence Day was released. I’m not saying that McKay has found that Roland Emmerich magic, but he has managed to match the spectacle of Independence Day in a way that modern day audiences can relate to. If streaming services can match the quality of films like The Tomorrow War moving forward, I may have to stop mentioning the movies in a light that makes them sound lower tier.

#ChiefDoomsday #DOOMonFILM #ChrisMcKay #TheTomorrowWar #ChrisPratt #YvonneStrahovski #JKSimmons #BettyGilpin #SamRichardson #EdwinHodge #JasmineMathews #KeithPowers #MaryLynnRajskub #MikeMitchell #SethScenall

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clericbyers · 5 years

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1/4 I keep seeing people comment about how byler won't be canon because the regular audience would see it as coming out of left field. While I understand the thought of not wanting to be disappointed, there is a way I can see for the writers to make it not as sudden. It all comes down to the theory that Will created the Upside Down due to internalized homophobia. What if the reason El's never been able to fully close the gate is because Will's still channeling his suppressed feelings there?

(2-5) He’s undoubtedly linked to the continued attacks through his association with the Mind Flayer. I’m of the full belief that Will has powers and is the creator of the Upside Down. El just intuitively found it when Brenner pressed her to approach the monster. She didn’t create the realm or monsters, she just opened the gate (which seems like a metaphor for Will’s jealousy of her, when I think about it). Or maybe it was combined effort. Either way, if Will’s repression caused any part of the Upside Down to be built, there would be no way to finish the story or destroy the Upside Down and its monsters without addressing Will’s sexual orientation and, by extension, his relationship with Mike. That would be how the writers could ease the regular audience into the reveal. I’m not saying I’m right, and I completely understand not wanting to face the disappointment so many other stories caused, but I also don’t think we should give up hope. At the very least, the writers don’t seem to consider Mileven an endgame couple, and there was an early cast interview (the Build series) including Finn where he said something along the lines of “the relationship arcs get better”. He could have been referring to Mileven, but the way he’d described his and the Duffer Brothers’ view of Mike’s feelings for El just seconds before makes me doubt that. Sorry for the length, I just don’t want people to give up hope. There is a way for everything to be resolved with a byler endgame – or at least addressing byler through Will’s feelings – and make sense to regular audiences.

ALRIGHT let’s get into this!

I too have seen a rise in comments about Byler not being canon because the regular audience has their Mike/El glasses on and basically just preparing for inevitable disappointment when a ship as coded as Byler is ends up not being canon. I absolutely support people believing strongly in Byler being endgame and people who ship but also understand that it’s not gonna happen. Before I begin, I’d like to offer a middle ground that Byler is already canon. Nothing can change the fact that Will does have a crush on Mike and Mike did at some point love him back (though I believe he still does). You don’t have to be reading between the lines or writing up theories when ST3 point blank gives us jealous!Will and ST1 and ST2 gave us Mike’s visceral reactions to Will’s “death” and then Mike being so dedicated to Will throughout his Mind Flayer possession for days on end and the entire shed confession scene. The big question then becomes if Byler will be endgame. That means bringing not just Will’s feelings to the forefront more, but also Mike’s own, which have been in the background and so far requires deeper analysis to pick apart compared to the easy pickings of Mike’s feelings for El, which is what the casual viewer (and Netflix) focuses on.

So, how do you make Will’s sexuality a new centerpiece for the story? You have a good idea already of how to do so and I agree completely. It has to do with the Upside Down being some representation of internalized homophobia. I like the idea of El never fully closing the gate because Will’s suppressed feelings are still haunting him. Given ST3 focuses on reopening the gate and one of the most dramatic moments in the season with Will and his connection to the Mind Flayer is after he tried to basically destroy his feelings for Mike with the Castle Byers scene, this can be a reasonable conclusion. Will having powers is, like, my M.O. so bring that up and I’m so game! Now, Will being the one who created the Upside Down interests me. I’ve personally always been of the mind that El created the Upside Down (a place of trauma) but Will created the Demogorgon, the Demodogs, and the Mind Flayer, where the monsters represent his sexuality issues rather than the Upside Down itself. El being the one to open the gate when pressed to do so being a metaphor for Will’s jealousy can make sense. She defeats the Demogorgon, but an even worse monster lurks in the shadows and possesses Will for a good year until he can’t escape it’s power and it consumes him. Noting here that in the shed scene when Mike tells the story of how they first met, Will comes alive from under the MF’s influence for just a moment longer. I think it’s combined effort in the end.

But yes, the Upside Down can’t truly be defeated until his sexual orientation is addressed if the Upside Down is supposed to be a physical representation of his internalized homophobia, and that in turn is tied to Mike and brings their relationship to the forefront as necessary to get casual viewers on board. The fact also that Mike can pull Will out of the Upside Down repeatedly in ST2 shows only gives more proof I guess to the point that the Upside Down can be very well tied to the internalized homophobia they both have (more on Mike’s here). No matter what, Will’s sexuality is a topic of discussion to casual viewers now, so the Duffers (and Netflix) must address it since the whole garage argument and destroy-Castle-Byers scene never got fully resolved. People are talking about it now, everyone is suspecting Will is gay not just hardcore viewers, and so that gives ST the opening for addressing how the Upside Down relates to Will, Will’s powers with the Upside Down, and of course, his feelings for Mike and Mike’s feelings for him in turn.

I said this in a different ask already kinda but yeah, Mike/El wasn’t meant to be endgame and that’s totally fine, and marketing is pushing it to be endgame, which is what makes it all the more disappointing about if Byler won’t be because, well, it’s marketing. Gotta roll with the punches on this one. But, I think it’s equally important that people don’t berate themselves or others for wanting Byler to be endgame, and hoping that maybe Netflix will let the Duffers pull through. Will’s sexual orientation has to be addressed and that is inevitably going to put his and Mike’s relationship in the spotlight. It’s only then we get to what happens about Byler on Mike’s end, which I state previously has been subconscious action that requires analysis to understand, and hopefully when brought under the microscope, it won’t be shot to shit for the sake of keeping the marketed couple alive. Time will tell.

And no worries about the length, I like discussing these things with you all and I’m glad you want to discuss it with me, too! Here’s to endgame Byler and if not, then hey, fandom had fanfic for a reason lol

#yams answers #anon #thanks for the ask #byler #byeler #meta #otp: palaric

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strawberrystan · 6 years

Text

Richie finding Will’s drawings of Mike (Byler)

Imagine Will and Richie sharing a small, cheap dorm and being dormmates and one day Richie comes across all of Will’s drawings of Mike

[Mentioned/Implied Reddie, stenbrough and benverly]

Richie was in search for his wallet in their messy dorm and was looking on Will’s desk. That’s when he saw them under piles of paper.

Richie has a small heart attack because Will has at least ten drawings of him and they clearly made with a lot of care

And then it really sinks in and all Richie can think is ‘shit’

Yeah he was flirty with Will but he was flirty with everyone and he didn’t think Will took him seriously!

The panic sets in and he’s got no clue what to do because this is Will Byers the softest, sweetest person Richie’s ever met and upsetting him would be like murdering a bunch of fluffy kittens

Richie calls Stan because he’s ‘Stan the man, the jew with a plan’ and he’s Richie’s best friend, he’s helped clean up Richie’s messes more times than anyone

Stan comes over begrudingly but only because through Richie’s incoherent babbling he hears Will’s name and now he’s curious and slightly worried

And because Stanley Uris has a soft spot for Will Byers

Stan comes over and Richie explains everything. Stan sees the pictures and he’s stumped because what the fuck? What the fuck

Richie’s still a mess and all that Stan really manages to get from Richie is the he’s flattered, thinks Will is great but not like that and loves his boyfriend Eddie a “Shitfuck ton” in Richie’s words not his own

Basically he’s not ready to turn down the nicest person he’s ever met.

Stan is still trying to process all of this

He’s confused as shit because Richie?? Richie Tozier??? Really????

Stan’s decided he’s finally learnt Will’s only flaw. He has shit taste in men

“What the fuck am I gonna do Staniel?!”

“How am I supposed to know?”

Stan does noT fEeL pRePaReD tO DeAl WiTh ThIs ToDaY or ever

“What do you mean you don’t know what to do??!” “Well what do you think I can do?!” “Tell me how to fix this!” “Sew your stupid lips shut Trashmouth!” “Yes, thank you Stan that’s perfect.”

They’re both at a loss and at this point they’re just arguing so Stan calls Bill

Clearly Bill will know what to do, he’s their fearless leader and he’s always been good at guiding them in the right direction in Stan’s eyes

Bill’s quiet, just staring at the art for a long time. Stan and Richie both assuming he’s coming up with some sort of master plan

Bill looks up at them suddenly, his expression unreadable and then speaks “He- He’s a g-good dr- drawer”

Stan’s lost his faith in Bill and ten years are taken off of Richie’s life.

They decide to call Mike and Ben for this

They feel stupid not having gone to them first. Afterall, Mike is the go to for emotional support and Ben’s got a way with words unlike any other

Ben of course, brings Bev who is a laughing mess at the whole situation

“This is- This is just to good! How did this even happen Richie?” “He was born. It all went down hill from there.” “Now is not the time for your fucking attitude Stanley”

Bill’s still being incredibly unhelpful, flipping through all the drawings instead of assisting in anything “Why isn’t Richie wearing glasses in any of these?”

Ben, always optomistic and nonjudmental gives a theory, “Maybe he can’t draw glasses very well?”

Stan, the fucker, has his own opinion “Richie’s less ugly without glasses”

Richie flips him off “Shut the fuck up Stan, you had a thing for me when we were thirteen and we all know”

Stan fake gags but doesnt deny it and Richie’s smiles smugly

Luckily Mike’s there and gets them back on track

They’re in the middle of discussing what to do when a pissed off Eddie Kaspbrak enters

Richie was supposed to meet him almost an hour ago for coffee

All the loser go quiet, even Bev which is a testament to Eddie’s power when angry.

Everyone knows that shits about to go down. Eddie gets jealous easily and really, who could blame him with Richie’s flirty nature.

Eddie’s annoyed but also confused at the group gathering “What the fuck is going on here?”

Mike, the saint that he is, steps up and takes one for Richie the team. His voice calm and soothing as he explains the situation

Eddie stomps over to Will’s desk and is practically glaring holes through Will’s art. Which honestly, Eddie thinks are beautiful.

If the situation was any different he’d probably be asking Will to keep one. However the situation isn’t different

And of course Richie was going to get himself in shit eventually and of course it had to be with Will

Eddie’s feeling a mixture of anger towards his boyfriend and sympathy towards his new friend Will, he’s been in the same boat as Will with Richie in the past and it was not fun

“Richard,” And holy shit! Eddie had only ever used Richie’s full name twice in all his years of knowing him. Richie is screwed, so very, royally screwed

“My sweet spaghetti let me-”

“Shut up.” Richie has never closed his mouth so fast in his whole life “I like Will Byers, we have english together. He’s my friend and he’s a wonderful person. I swear to god if you are an insesitive prick about this or crack some goddamn joke with him I will cut your dick off and feed it to the birds.”

Stan looks thoroughly disgusted and offended by that threat and Beverly is gone, her cackles filling the room

Mike looks tired.

Very, very tired and he finds himself thinking he should have stayed on the stupid farm

Richie is a mixture of terrified and turned on, Eddie always got this look in his eyes when he was mad that made Richie a little weak in the knees

Now the seven of them are all crammed into the room, writing out ideas on what they can do. Stan complaining about the lack of space and Bill, who is practically sitting in his lap, agreeing

They suck it up though. Because a loser and and a newer but still good friend are in need

When Richie hears keys jingling and a muffled but undeniably Will voice laughing and saying “That makes no sense at all Mike” he panics and crumples up the page of ideas, shoving it into his mouth

Eddie smacks him hard and forces him to open his mouth so that he can grab it by the very tips of his fingers, attempting not to gag

Ben’s a sweetheart and takes it from a disgusted Eddie

When Will opens the door his eyes widen, confused beyond belief at what is going on

Will’s eyes are darting everywhere trying to grasp the situation at hand.

Bill is sitting in Stan’s lap giving him a sheepish grin, Beverly silently laughing to the point of tears and Ben trying to calm her down. Eddie was glaring at his hands and agressively scrubbing them together

Richie was looking anywhere but at Will, the oposite of Mike who was starring directly at him as if he was in The Office

“Uhm... Richie? I thought you were... going out today?”

Richie didn’t say anything, avoiding eye contact and Will’s eyebrows furrowed in confusion

“I was gonna hang out with Mike here. But if you’re busy.”

At his name Mike Wheeler peered into the room and everyone had to do a doubletake at the lanky guy standing next to Will

They were all caught in the middle of an awkward starring contest beore Richie blurted out “Oh thank fuck for Mike!”

The losers decided to make their exit now, all saying an awkward hello to Will and his friend as they left, Stan stopping to apologize to Will before leaving with the others (he may have tidied up Will’s desk a little. But just a little.)

Now the only people left were Richie, Eddie, Will and Mike. It was quiet for a moment

“You have no idea how glad I am to have a doppleganger right now. See, I saw all your drawings and I thought it was me and that you were madly in love with me”

Will’s face was unbelievably red and Mike’s face was twisted in confusion. Eddie starred at the two, eyes widening as he realized Mike didn’t know

Mike didn’t know

“Turns out you’re just hella gay for Mi-” Eddie elbowed Richie a little harder than necessary

“We should go Richie!’ The two practically flew out of the room leaving Will and Mike on their own

“So... you draw me?”

Will is a flustered mess but he manages to nod

“Can I- Can I see them?”

Will goes over to his desk, legs feeling like lead

When he sees that Stan has organized his desk he thinks he should be uncomfortable or annoyed but a warmth settles in his chest, calming him enough to scoop up the pages and bring them to Mike

When Mike sees them he’s speechless, they’re stunning

“You... You really think I look like this?”

Will looks up at Mike a little confused and sees the insecurity in his face. “Well kinda... I think you look better.”

Mike’s head whips up to stare at Will who gives him a small shy smile

“I hope one day I’ll be able to get at least half of your charm and allure into my pieces.”

It’s quiet after that before Mike blurts out “Can I kiss you!”

Will’s eager and so is Mike and so there heads bump at first but on their second try their lips are brushing together and Will lets out a happy sigh as Mike pulls him closer a mantra of finally running through both boys heads

They’re interrupted by the door opening, Richie’s head popping in

“Forgot my wallet!” Richie at least looks a little bashful but that’s soon gone as he calls out “Get some Byers!” Before slamming the door behind him

Mike and Will can hear Eddie scolding him as they walk away

The two look at each other and burst into laughter, Mike wresting his forehead against Will’s and looking at him with affectionate eyes

Will thinks that next time he’ll highfive Richie when he makes a terrible joke. But just the once. Just so that they’re even

Before Will can think into that much more Mike’s lips are meeting his again

Okay maybe two highfives

Wow this ended up getting really long and out of hand!! I was only thinking of writing a small paragraph worth but now there’s this... hope you liked it though!

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kaypeace21 · 5 years

Note

Do you have any meta/theory on the significance of the cleric/paladin d&d characters vs wizard/dungeon master. Is maybe one more Will and Mike's relationship and the other their role in the story as a whole? Sorry if you already mentioned this and this is redundant

Yeah, I’ve talked about it before. But why not talk about it again? It’s been a while- and Will’s recently published journal (plus st tweets) added more to this symbolism

The Duffers used Will and Mike’s d&d classes to say they’re soulmates! XD

Will in all 3 seasons identifies as a wizard- he even writes on the mixtape he makes “will the wise- wizard mix” (which is a different class than clerics). Even in s1 Will’s castle byer’s password was “rhadaghast” a lothr wizard.

But in s2 Mike (the paladin) says that Will is a cleric. Meaning this reflects how Mike (alone) actually feels about Will. In d&d, they have similar moral values, powers, and generally need and depend on each other in the lore of d&d. Mike says Will is a cleric,despite Will still identifying as a wizard in s3, since it shows how deeply Mike actually feels about Will.

It shows he views Will as one of the only people who understands him and views him as a his moral compass

“ strength of conviction gave many paladins a sense of common fellowship but did not always endear them to others. In many cases, paladins did not get along quite as well with other non-paladin adventurers, with the exception of clerics with similar beliefs.”

“A Paladin tries to hold to the highest standards of conduct, but even the most virtuous Paladin is fallible. Sometimes the heat of emotion causes a Paladin to transgress his or her oath (of honesty, courage, compassion, honor ,and duty). A paladin who has broken a vow typically seeks absolution from a cleric who shares his or her faith or from another paladin of the same order…

“The paladin might spend an all-night vigil in prayer as a sign of penitence, or undertake a fast or similar act of self-denial.”

“After a rite of confession and forgiveness, the paladin starts fresh.”

“Using the ‘lay on hands’ power, paladins can grant their comrades (or themselves) additional resilience with a touch of their hands and a short prayer, though they must give their own strength to do so.”

And Mike calls El a “mage” which wasn’t even a class in D&D (in the 80s)- A line he says to Max about zoomer (who he doesn’t like) …so… how much do you want to bet Mike was the one who made him and Will matching by giving him and Will “lawful good” (since this is writen in his starter kit). And he already ignored the fact Will is a wizard.

But in Will’s recently published cannon journal he also does this- he keeps Lucas (Ranger) , Dustin (Bard) and his own character (a wizard) …but he changes Mike to a cleric !!!

Because Clerics have the strongest of healing abilities

Mike thinks Will brings out the best in him. And Will thinks Mike as someone who helps him heal. So they both call each other clerics.

D&D also represents their romantic relationship

when they fight in s3 Mike says “I’m not trying to be a jerk. We’re not kids anymore. I mean…what did you think? That we’d never get girlfriends. Play games for the rest of our lives?” And the truth is that’s actually what Mike wants- which is why he was upset about Will trying to give away the d&d game . And why he still has all of Will’s d&d pictures on his basement’s wall (which he’s kept on his wall for years- despite removing the old poster from the wall). And during Hopper’s speech, when it pans to Mike , Hopper says “I miss playing games every night.”

* He also caresses Will’s d&d drawing- when he thinks he’s dead- and has a binder filled with every d&d drawing Will has ever given him.

In the first ep - Will admits he rolls a 7 (since he couldn’t lie to Mike)- and in the last ep of s1 (they show us Mike smiling at Will right before Will rolls a 14- since they’re 7s together.) Mike even apologizes to EL saying “sorry I sound like a 7 year old.” When talking about how all 3 can play with toys & right after talking about Will visiting to play. and mentions Will’s rolls as a way to convince Lucas to help him look for him.And Mike even mentions Will rolls as a way to convince Lucas to help him look for him in the first ep.

Mike in the last ep in s1 ,writes a d&d story for Will. in ep one Will tells Mike “it was a 7, the demogorgan it got me.”At the end of the season Mike writes a whole story of him and his friends killing a 7 headed monster, and showing the decapitated head of the monster to king Tristan (Will). Similar to how at the hospital he tells Will to not worry cause “it’s dead now”. This is right after Will rolls a 14 (cause Mike and Will are 7s together). And Mike who is a fan of starwars has King Tristan give them medals after killing the monster. Cause he wants Will/king tristan (instead of Leia -a girl) to present him with medals and be his romantic love interest (and praise him for being a hero)…

In the pilot, they even say Will uses d&d to “escape” his insecurities about his sexuality “like mike” & Mike uses d&d to “escape” his insecurities about not having a gf. * And no, dustin & Lucas didn’t use d&d to “escape” anything- in the pilot script.

Mike angrily yells “El’s not stupid. It’s not my fault you don’t like girls” to himself- cause Will hit a nerve when saying mileven was ruining their friendship - because a part of Mike is trying to use El to put distance between him and Will . Dustin in s1 foreshadows the fight, saying “all you want to do is spent time with her… and you know it and he knows it. And nobody says anything until you’re yelling at eachother like goblins with intelligence scores of zero.” (Another d&d ref/ ‘love makes you stupid’ ref.).

And also, maybe a part of him resents how Will is making him feel. So he says this whole speech , in the garage, to himself - to keep his romantic feelings for Will under control ( expecting Will to agree with the heteronormative statement). Which is why he was so shocked when Will (who he assumes is straight) and he expects would agree - instead says “yeah, I guess I did. I really did.” (about never getting gfs but instead being together for the rest of their lives).

And the “crazy together” scene (which is romantic since both Mike & Flo both equate love making you ‘crazy’. Flo says “ only love makes you crazy and that damn stupid”). And the ‘crazy together’ scene also has a zoom-in on Mike’s d&d game.

(x)(x)

Mike and Will both love each other (and El is just confused). He wants to be with Will- but he’s scared. The Hopper dialogue even says “Lately, I feel like you’re pulling away from me or something? I miss playing board games every night.” Mike was upset when Will gives the game up- but Will says “I’ll just play with yours when I come back… if we still want to play?” In other words- the ball is in Mike’s court- if he wants Will, he has to initiate it. Because Will assumes he was “stupid” to think he had a chance. Mike is also acting “stupid” because he’s pushing away Will despite loving him, and hurting him in the process (the opposite of a cleric).

But Mike in s4 will admit his feelings to Will… since after Will says this line, Mike asks

“Yeah, but what happens if you want to join another party? ” (find someone else (‘another’) before that- the other ‘species’, or just someone else: girl, guy or otherwise?”

But Will decides to make himself vulnerable and just be honest, and shyly admits “Not possible” (much to Mike’s happiness)

so yes- this tweet is about byler

They even answered the question of ‘what makes Mike crazy’ with one’ joke’ response - of Will asking about d&d. And in a separate post made fun of mileven by ending it with “can we just play d&d?”

And when, Mike and Will open up to each other about their mental-health issues, that’s when they both agree that no matter what they’ll be together- “crazy together”. It’s a double entendre - they’re crazy cause they’re in love- but also “crazy” and will be “together” to help each other through their issues. This theme is double-downed on in Will’s cannon journal (where it’s established “crazy together” is shown to be Mike & Will’s thing- not mileven’s). As Mike tells Will to tell him when he’s having ptsd episodes since- they're “crazy together”.

*Will draws Mike’s d&d character next to the sticky-note. And we also see throughout Will’s whole journal- Mike’s d&d character is always by Will’s (d&d character’s side). And on the cover of his journal Will ONLY draws his and Mike’s character- cause they’re “crazy together”.

Mike specifically says to get him when he’s having ptsd episodes about the mf (which represent Will’s se*ually abusive father- theory here/ here).

That’s what love is - like Flo said only love makes you “crazy” and “stupid” and this is only applicable to byler. Mike and Will love and bring out the best in each other- heal each other. Being “crazy together” to Mike is about being selfless and wanting the best for you partner’s happiness no matter what- with mileven it was simply a way to excuse his poor behavior to El (under the guise of ‘love’).

For all the supernatural stuff to stop , Will has to face his trauma and heal. This involves having a strong support (of friends and family) and Will learning to not hate himself any longer, because of his past abuse and sexuality. And to stop correlating his love (for Mike) with his past abuse/trauma (represented by the monsters. And Mike and Will have to embrace their love for each other. And let go of their shame. When Will ‘dies’ in s1, Mike hugs his mom ,and Heroes plays, and the lyrics are “and we kiss as though nothing could fall and the shame… was on the other side.” In s1 the term “other side” was used to describe the upside down. So it’s saying Will’s shame relating to Lonnie will eventually be on the other side, and so Mike and Will kiss ‘as though nothing could fall’. In Will’s journal he even draws Mike’s d&d character again with the caption “never Kenny Roggers”. This is because Jonathan asks ‘who would you rather be friends with David bowie or Kenny roggers?”. And Heroes was originally sung by David Bowie- making the byler hint of this being ‘their song’, more apparent. The cannon Will-comic is even titled the “other side” and Mike is on the opposite end (‘the other side’ waiting for Will who is trapped in the upside down looking up at the imposing figure of the demogorgan). The demorgogan in blue light and mike in opposing red light. The monsters Will created are based on the d&d game and his prior abuse at the hands of lonnie. But byler’s love is also represented by d&d- and thus the only way to stop it.

gif credit: cath-avery

#byler #byeler

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aviewfromtheclouds25 · 6 years

Note

I've missed your Rebecca theories! Not that there's been anything to salivate over lately. Her sketchiness has died down a bit. I still think she's sketchy but that may be residual bias. But this rebooted Ross connection is suspicious. Did they really need her to be his unsuspecting drug dealer? I'm sure he can steal pills from other people who he didn't sleep with and possibly fathered a child with. Had no idea she even took painkillers.

I’m glad you sent me this, anon, because I have too many thoughts on all of this right now so was planning on making a post anyway haha!

I just want to note first though that I’m actually really enjoying everything with Ross and Rebecca these days - individually and together. I’d always liked them as a pairing (admittedly they were never on the scale of Ross and Donna, but they worked far better together than Dross ever did for me), but I’m genuinely loving this dynamic of these two lost souls supporting each other right now. It feels very natural and I feel invested in both storylines. I think Ross’s storyline has been really strong and moving, and Mike Parr’s been giving some really compelling and heart-wrenching performances. It’s nice to see him be given something proper to get his teeth into again.

And as for Rebecca - theories aside - I’m actually really enjoying / appreciating the direction they’re taking her character in nowadays. (I’m not saying I’m suddenly a Rebecca fan haha, but I’m appreciating her as a character nowadays.) Again I feel invested in her storyline and it’s actually really nice to see Emily get to do more, she’s having to highlight all these different sides to Rebecca’s personality right now and I think she’s doing a really good job. Because you know what they’ve done, anon? By actually taking Rebecca’s character in a direction, rather than just leaving her floating neither here nor there because they just never committed one way or the other, they’ve actually given the character some substance. And that’s why I’m now able to enjoy / appreciate her as a character. Because now she actually feels like one. To me at least. That substance, however, still doesn’t seem to extend to Seb and this brings me to the theories…

So this is where I currently stand on Theory Realm - I kept saying before that I’m not going there because personally I’m enjoying the narrative the way it is and have never wanted a twist for the sake of it. For me, a paternity twist and The Theory always went hand in hand as it was the decision to make Robert cheat in the first place (rather than the presence of the baby) which I found disappointing because I just didn’t feel like that was Robert at that stage (although a couple of days after The Incident, I wrote a mammoth post trying to get into the mindset of the storyliners/writers as they got into the mindset of Robert in order to make sense of why they felt like it was how Robert would handle the situation - yet another post which was never posted but I found it helpful at the time to understand the decision haha.). But I’ve also always maintained that the best way, for me, for The Theory to play out would have been as part of Robert’s breakdown and therefore by Christmas. So personally I’m quite happy for the narrative to continue the way it is now - saying that, I poured so much into the theories they’re always going to have a little piece of my heart and part of me can’t help but still want The Theory as @itwasjustmisplaced and I dedicated so much to it and of all the theories we discussed constantly, it’s the only one not to happen onscreen. So for the sake of myself and Taryn, and our sanity, it would still be quite nice and exciting haha! So that’s where my confliction on Theory Realm lies and why I’ve said I wasn’t going there, but it’s all still been going on in Theory Realm throughout and with each passing episode it feels like the show itself is literally trying to drag me back there… So, here we go, anon…

Rebecca’s relationship with Seb. I said her character feels like it has substance which it was lacking before - which is evident just in her interactions with other characters being far less about plot, but this doesn’t extend to Seb. Apart from her breaking down when she handed Seb over to Robert, we didn’t see any more of that time from her perspective - and we are actually seeing her perspective these days, so why not with Seb? Why not show her struggling without him, particularly as he was the one constant in her routine and structure which would surely be crucial and have a big impact on her symptoms? Instead we got Robert’s perspective and Aaron bonding with Seb, while Rebecca disappeared until she popped up in the pub (wearing that grey jumper) looking for a job (with Charity commenting on her lack of blinking, I hope you all picked up on that haha)… So is this because Seb is staying as a permanent fixture with Robert and Aaron, or because he’s going to be taken away from them and therefore it was necessary to build that bond as a family (which was always part of The Theory and one of the reasons the break-up parting didn’t make sense to me at the time.)..? (Or alternatively was it a simple matter of timing because look at Vanessa - she got suspended but we haven’t seen anything since of how she’s coping with being in a different role, how Paddy and Rhona are coping with the workload without her etc. Sometimes it is just down to screentime and other storylines taking precedence at that point.) Because what we are getting with Rebecca and Seb is Lachlan feeding her the line that Robert would still try to take Seb away from her. Are we due that custody battle that was prematurely speculated about after all..? And if so, will Joe Tate play a role as - sadly - he’s also been a poignant connecting factor in all of this…

The Ross connection. (They had already planted the painkillers seed by the way - when she left Seb on his own it’s because she’d run out of painkillers for her headaches so went to get some from the shop, but forgot when she was there and came home with only a magazine and some chocolate.) Now, on the surface, it kind of looks like they’ve just re-established the connection between Ross and Rebecca but actually their storylines have been connected throughout. Even as far back as January, when Robert was planning on taking Seb, Ross was there (with Moses) buying into the situation with his quips about Adam not being able to run forever… Also note, Ross has actually only been onscreen with Seb once - helping Robert with the pram and his stuff outside the café. That’s it. But actually, the biggest connection is that they’re both going through health storylines right now and these have been intricately linked from the start…

Ross hanging around making jibes shortly before the crash;

The day of Ross’s attack, Rebecca had a turn and fainted;

Which brings me to the first point of the Joe factor - obviously it was Joe who was supposed to be in Ross’s shoes, but instead it was he and Graham who found and helped Ross;

The day Robron reunited - alternatively known as that time Robert left the front door open for a whole night - Ross was alone at home, unable to open his front door and afraid when the pizza delivery guy came knocking, while two (I think) doors down we also had a shot of Robert closing the door, not wanting to open the front door on which Aaron was knocking - except eventually he did, and he left that door wide open (intentionally or not haha)… The door to Rebecca and Seb’s home…;

Point two of the Joe factor - Rebecca went and attacked Joe - who was the one supposed to be on the receiving end of the attack on Ross - and when he discovers the cctv footage of Graham with Simon (aka clues to Ross’s attack) we think this is the footage he’s about to show Graham but instead he plays Rebecca’s attack on himself;

Point three of the Joe factor - Joe had Rebecca arrested to get one over on Robert. Note, Rebecca was wearing her blouse from The Incident night for the first time in a long time and obviously there was quite a big focus on it at the police station… Now, Robert went after Joe for this, as predicted, so does that make the speculated custody battle seem more likely..? Personally I don’t think Joseph Tate is above manipulating an ill and vulnerable Rebecca (with the help of Lachlan’s whisperings of course) to try to take Seb away from Robert and maybe due to the legality side that’s how the paternity test finally comes about to prove Robert’s rights - imagine Joe’s delight if it turned out Seb wasn’t Robert’s son at all…

And then of course Rebecca and Ross finally started sharing scenes together again…

Rebecca and Charity defending Ross against those awful girls - two exes: one, the mother of his son who was revealed to be his as a “Who’s the daddy?” twist and who has proven to be Ross’s anchor and purpose to get him through all of this right now (there’s been such a heavy focus on his relationship with Moses and lines of dialogue like “Am I still your daddy?” which could be read into if you want to go there, but personally I don’t want to detract from the actual story they’re showing with Ross as I’ve found it all heartbreaking.); the other, the mother of a son who could have been his except the question of “Who’s the daddy?” never came…

Their bonding and hanging out together, so supportive of each other, but Ross alluding to something more happening and saying “It’s not like you’d remember it anyway.” Which on its own doesn’t seem like anything more than a Ross quip, but this was while Rebecca was wearing The Incident blouse…

Now, add all of this to the fact that Lachlan used the line the other night about “all of our secrets” - plural, not just the truth of how the crash happened… And remember Rebecca said, “The thing about secrets is you have to be comfortable keeping them.” Well Rebecca isn’t comfortable with that anymore, she no longer has that level of control over the information she reveals… And on that front, isn’t it cruelly ironic that we, the audience, are being treated to a trip down memory lane for Rebecca while she herself is struggling to remember anything? Not just with Ross, but with Debbie (responsible for Ross’s attack and discussing Joe - connections) and also bringing up Vic’s “obsession” with having a baby… If there was to be a twist, they’ve set it up perfectly to allow themselves to be a bit creative with it… Maybe we will get that Memento style flashback we all asked for after all. :P But if that were to happen, why not go a little further and give us an extra big twist? Maybe Rebecca’s initial injuries were sustained much earlier and the crash exacerbated them - perhaps that bonfire night when she was knocked out and Chrissie left her for dead was the start of it all, maybe this is why there has been inconsistencies with her character, maybe this is why she regularly told people different stories, maybe she never slept with Robert at all but like him she just assumed because she couldn’t remember..? And maybe this is why she keeps wearing that black and white coat again which she wore that bonfire night but hadn’t actually been around much last year… I mean, this is just a wild bit of theorising for fun, but with the situation they’ve put her into almost anything is possible haha.

So yeah, I still don’t know how I feel about the prospect of anything happening, anon. Literally all the signs are still there, it’s just how we choose to interpret them. And I’m just not sure at this stage because I’ve moved on with the narrative, but still there’s a niggle. Alas.

#I did forewarn you that I had a lot of thoughts right? :P #haha I hope you were prepared for an essay anon!#but bless you for missing the theories - consider this a collection of all the posts I wasn't around to make :P #discussions on everyone's favourite fictional village #the realms of neverending theories and overanalysis #The Theory speculation

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beepboop358 · 3 years

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"S4 Sneak Peek" Teaser - SECOND PART

This is my second post about the st4 sneak peek teaser, regarding the second half of the st4 sneak peek teaser, which contains the new images for s4.

(the first part of this s4 sneak peek discussion regarding the first half of the teaser can be found here.)

The California group; Will, Mike, Argyle, Jonathan (and El for part of the season), are not shown in the s4 footage, neither is Joyce, who we also know is in California for at least part of the season. There are several possible reasons why they aren’t included, one being that they are waiting to release any content surrounding Joyce and Will’s storyline until both of their individual teasers are released, or that their storyline contains major spoilers too sensitive to reveal at this time.

Now getting into the images…

The Grandfather Clock:

It is striking midnight, which could be a reference to the doomsday clock, or just time running out until something catastrophic happens.

This clock has been seen several times in promos:

My running theory is the clocks represent memories, which will be re-visited through the powers of the upside down/the void, essentially “time travel flashbacks". If you want to read more about this theory it's in my post here. I think the grandfather clock being positioned in the upside down, further supports this theory.

A clock was also seen in the "Eleven are you listening?" teaser, striking 3 a.m., aka "the witching hour".

Eleven in s4:

In the first image, Eleven looks like Joyce. She has the same hairstyle with the bangs. Whether she is mimicking Joyce after getting closer and more attached to her, or Joyce gave her this haircut, she undeniably looks like Joyce. She is wearing Hopper's flannel, but her clothing style also looks similar to Joyce's, just like her hair.

Eleven has obviously been kidnapped by the “bad men”, probably government agents for Hawkins Lab. From her facial expression and lack of movement, she isn't struggling or trying to get away from their grip on her, and that the black van behind her has its doors open and she is facing away from it, which means they probably just took her out of the van. Her facial expression indicates she is looking at something, full of disbelief and confusion. The tan ground and blue sky tell us this is obviously California. It was confirmed by leaked set pics of Joyce and Jonathan's cars license plates that the Byers move to Cali. I have a theory Dr. Owens/the gov. paid to re-locate the Byers to keep a low profile for Eleven, or at least gave them some money to use to re-locate to a place far away from Hawkins, because Joyce can not afford the kind of house they are living in there in Cali by herself with the kind of job she previously worked.

The second image of Eleven in the lab could be a memory/"time travel flashback", or it may not even be El, it could be another test subject that just looks like her, since they all did have shaved heads, but I feel like the person has very similar facial features to Millie, so it is probably Eleven.

The Hawkins group:

We have Nancy, Steve, Robin, Max, Lucas, Dustin and Erica left in Hawkins to investigate what is going on there. They are in the Claremont house, rumored to be "Vecna's lair" (the rumored new monster in s4)

The group appears to be looking at the grandfather clock, but we don't know for sure.

Usually all the couples are visually paired together in shots (which is especially prominent in s3) but here in this shot Max and Lucas are not standing next to each other, and in the bike riding shot they aren’t riding next to each other either. Max and Lucas are always breaking up and then getting back together in s3, so I wonder if them not standing together and not riding next to each other indicates a more permanent break up between the two.

Max is also at the center of the formation, and everyone stands around and behind her. I have a theory Max will be more central to the plot this year in discovering whats going on in Hawkins. Steve also appears to be looking directly at Max, as if he is reacting to or going to respond to what she is saying or has been saying.

Max, Dustin, Lucas and Erica riding their bikes could be them running away from something, rushing to get somewhere to deliver news/show up to something that's about to happen, etc, we really don't know.

The Dice:

The number 7 can be seen as one of the prominent numbers in the middle of a dice roll during a D&D game with the hellfire club. The number 7 is associated with Will and Mike, but also could allude to the "Eleven are you listening?" teaser where a puck was dropped on the number 7. 3 and 5 are also prominent numbers here.

I think the hands with the ring is Eddie or another new character. Neither Mike or Dustin's hands look like that. The person sitting next to him could be anyone. This person is seen wearing a hellfire club shirt, and we have seen everyone we know to be confirmed members of the club - Eddie, Mike, Dustin, wear this shirt in bts pics.

Hopper:

This shot is most likely of Hopper in the Russian prison, using a flame thrower as a weapon for his escape, or to defend himself from someone/something.

The car on fire:

If you slow the teaser down to 0.25x speed, you can see the mysterious figure is walking towards the flaming car, approaching it. This means this person was most likely not in the wreck. Although it would make sense for it to be Joyce's car because she drives a Ford Pinto which was an extremely flammable car due to design flaws Ford neglected, the back of the Ford Pinto is rounded, and this car does not seem to have a rounded back. During the scene in the woods in s3 after Joyce and Hopper kidnapped Alexei and Hopper's car won't start, it blows up. Joyce makes comments about how she could have died in the car explosion, which could be possible foreshadowing.

The mysterious figure appears to be a man, I'm guessing a young adult/teenager based on the stripes on the sleeve of their shirt - it just feels like something a teenager would wear, not a middle aged adult. My bet is that this figure is either Will, Jonathan, or maybe Mike - just based off of the body shape of the figure and that they would fit the age group.

The one thing we know for sure from this picture is that the car explosion happens in Hawkins. The skinny, tall trees that can be seen on the side of the road, only grow in certain places, mainly in the southeast of the US, and the Hawkins portion of ST is filmed in Atlanta, GA where these trees grow. These kinds of trees can’t grow in New Mexico where the California portion is being filmed, and definitely not in Lithuania, where the Russia portion is being filmed. In the show these trees only appear in Hawkins, Indiana. These trees are seen during Hopper's letter - when the Byers drive past the "Leaving Hawkins" sign. The slight curve in the road right where the skinny trees can be seen is very suspiciously similar.

Chrissy:

Described as the most popular girl in school hiding a dark secret, Chrissy's death/disappearance will probably be what sparks the suspicion, action, mystery, of the Hawkins storyline. It will be the event that triggers the Hawkins group to investigate what's really going on, and if the upside down is back again in Hawkins.

Steve under water:

He seems to be looking for something, it's unclear what, why, or exactly when in the season this scene will occur. Water has an underlying significance in the show, and last year the stranger writers account kept tweeting reminding everyone to drink water, and tweeted that Steve wasn't drinking enough water. There's definitely something going on here with the water references. That tweet about Steve not drinking enough water could allude to his possible death/serious injury. Steve is a popular contender to die this season, but I wonder if/when Steve dies, Dustin will also die because of the comment he makes in s3 to Steve saying, "If you die, I die."

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hawkinsschoolcounselor · 5 years

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Were we Gay-Baited? The Issue of Will and Byler/Byeler, a Discussion of Apophenia, Identification, and Empathy

I’ve been struggling with my own feelings since finishing Stranger Things 3. Curiously, I find myself being overcome with rage and disappointment, which isn’t how one is usually meant to feel about a TV show. It wasn’t a bad season by any means, though I do think it was the weakest of the three so far. The one biggest point I find myself stuck on is the treatment of Will Byers, not just as a character, but as a reflection of my own experiences and feelings. Identification happens all the time when we engage with fiction. Sometimes we are meant to do so, while other times it is due to how we interpret otherwise ambiguous aspects of a character or story. It’s an aspect of empathy, as we’re feeling the emotions (or at least what we believe to be the emotions) of a character. I identified with Will back in Season 1. It looked like they were building, slowly, but surely, towards Will being gay, and I let myself build this idea that his struggles with the Upside Down and the Mindflayer were a metaphor for him coming to terms with these feelings he had for his best friend. I saw the Upside Down as an allegory for being in the closet. A dark, lonely, scary version of the real world. I don’t know if Barb was meant to be seen as a lesbian, but I latched onto that as support for my theory. It was after being left alone by Nancy that she is captured and killed by the Demogorgon. She felt alone and rejected, and subsequently was consumed by the despair that comes with hiding. Will, however, was able to get out due to the overwhelming love and support of his friends and family. Was I wrong to make this assumption? Possibly. Then Season 2 happened, and I don’t know what else we were meant to think.

For reasons we never really find out, at least in the show itself, Will finds himself being stalked by the Mindflayer roughly a year after escaping the Upside Down. This creature wants Will, and apparently only Will. The simple explanation, I suppose, is that it wants what it sees to be his. Will got away, the Mindflayer isn’t ok with that, and this all ensures that our main cast are at the center of the story. I read into it deeper though, which was probably a mistake. This happens during an election year, and Reagan signs are prominently displayed. The AIDS crisis was in full swing, and still mainly seen as a gay disease. Will still doesn’t feel safe, and doesn’t even fully understand how he feels. He flashes back into the Upside Down, feeling targeted and watched. Mike is generally able to pull him back out, and Will seems to seek out the safety of his best friend. Mike is the only one he trusts. Mike is safety, comfort, and unconditional love. He’s special, at least to Will.

It is again love that saves Will. Joyce, Johnathan, and Mike get through to Will by sharing stories meant to express how they feel about Will. Joyce loves her son, and is proud of his rainbow ship. This was unnecessarily specific if it wasn’t meant to be gay coding. Johnathan shares the building of Castle Byers, Will’s safe haven, after their dad left, The same dad who would call Will a fag. We see Will start to waver, ever so slightly, as they start to reach him, but the kicker is when Mike starts. Mike shares the story of when they first met. He remembers it in surprising detail, and it’s the oldest memory out of the three so far mentioned. Mike is barely keeping himself together as he relates walking up to Will on the first day of kindergarten. He’s so overwhelmed by the memory himself, repeating that Will said yes to being his friend, as if he cherished it immeasurably, and goes on to say it was the best thing he’s ever done. Despite the Mindflayer’s control, Will himself is barely holding back tears at this moment and we see emotion on his face for the first time since being fully possessed. He’s able to start with the morse code. Mike is the one who ultimately broke through. I read this as him being the single most important person in Will’s life, but was it that, or was it simply that he was the last to speak? It’s hard to tell the intent here, especially as Mike’s attention leaves Will as soon as Eleven returns shortly thereafter. All we’re left with is a look at Mike when Will is asked to dance, and his fake smile faltering as he glances at Mike dancing with Eleven. More curious decisions that could be something, or may be nothing.

This brings us to Season 3, where my confusion, annoyance, and anger boil over more with each episode. We start with scenes that I felt did a good job showing an emotional conflict set up by the end of Season 2: how does Mike find room for both Will and Eleven? Mike is shown obsessively attached to Eleven, which is reasonable given his age and his fear of losing her again, and we also see him going to the movies with Will, Lucas, and Max. The latter scene is oddly double-date like, to the point where they don’t sit together, putting Mike and Will separate from Lucas and Max as if to highlight the two separate couples. Lucas and Max get some playful banter in (pretty much the last we see of their relationship this season), and Mike is shown still harboring concern for Will. I found it odd when Mike asked if Will was ok, as Will hadn’t really done anything unusual. The suggestion, at least to me, was that Mike is still paying close attention to Will, and this made sense, as he would have a fear of losing Will the same as he does with Eleven. After this we see Will mope over the amount of time Mike spends with Eleven, but he has no complaints about his other friends. His obsession over D&D is over the top and jarring, and very much out of character. He’s a fully fleshed out character with multiple interests, but all he wants to do is D&D, why? I don’t really have a great answer for that beyond it being bad writing just to set up a later scene. That brings us to their fight, which fully ignited my hopes that they’d continue this build-up.

Will loses it when Mike and Lucas seem to mock his campaign. They don’t really dislike it, they just aren’t engaged due to girl troubles. His anger, though, seems focused on Mike. Will feels betrayed, and laments his loss of the Party due to girls, but he never blames anyone but Mike, even though Lucas and Dustin are similarly focused on girls. He calls El a “stupid girl”, and that wouldn’t be unusual given the situation had we been shown any interactions between El and Will or given exposition to inform us that the two of them get along. Indeed, I got the impression that Will still hasn’t had any meaningful interactions with her, since it’s implied she’s constantly with Mike and only Mike. The only time we see her out with the Party, before the crisis begins anyway, Mike bails with her very quickly. Will resents El. She’s stealing Mike away from him. That’s how I saw it anyway, and I remember feeling that way many a time at that age. At this point, you might still be able to argue it was just Will mad he’s losing his best friend, but then that one line comes. “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls!”

This line could have been done in any number of other ways if the implication was anything other than Will is gay and has feelings for Mike (any maybe thought Mike might like him as well). Mike could have told Will he needs to grow up or that it’s not his fault Will doesn’t have a girlfriend. But, no, Will simply doesn’t like girls. Will’s reaction speaks volumes, despite him not being able to talk. Up to that point, Will had been jabbing Mike with accusations, but as soon as Mike says this he’s stone silent. Lips quivering and eyes watering, he stares at Mike in disbelief and fear. To his credit, Mike immediately realizes he crossed a line and softens his approach, something we never see him do when he fights with anyone else. The damage is done, however, and Will’s final words “I guess I did. I really did.” screamed of a breakup to me. Will thought it’d be him and Mike forever. He destroys Castle Byers in a rage, berating himself for being stupid. It’s no longer a safe haven for him, as it is filled with memories of his childhood. A childhood spent with Mike.

This whole scene is never addressed again by the two of them. Lucas is shut down in an attempted apology, and I saw this as Will not wanting an apology from him and not willing to discuss the situation. It still felt very aborted, as if that quick scene with Will and Lucas was meant to tell the audience that, nope, we’re not getting into that. He and Mike have no real significant interactions throughout the rest of the season, though Will is shown reacting negatively anytime Mike expresses his feelings for Eleven. Our attention is never really drawn to it, but it’s there. This takes us to the finale, where Mike’s goodbye to Will is oddly quick for friends as close as they were supposed to be. Mike expresses worry that Will would move on and replace him, and Will reassures him that such a thing would never happen. I like how they had Mike smile perhaps his most genuine smile of the season here, but it still felt odd. When they hug outside right before the end, it’s again quick and not indicative of the emotion that should be there. Will seems to linger in the hug a bit, but Mike staggers away to Eleven. Mike’s attention seems to be solely on Eleven as the Byers leave, though he glances back at the house that he shouldn’t really associate with her. The final scene is a near perfect mirror of Season 1 when he thought Will was dead. It was confusing, possibly intentionally so, but why?

Mr. Clark brings up apophenia when speaking with Joyce. It’s the tendency for humans to spot patterns where there are none. As humans, we like for there to be explanations for everything. There are no coincidences, we just haven’t figured out how things fit together. Part of me wonders if this whole line of conversation was targeted at fans, such as myself, who read too deeply into Mike and Will’s relationship, and possibly Will’s possibly homosexuality. I could understand how it could be used to cast doubt on Joyce’s fears. However, it ends up having no real bearing on the plot, as Joyce is relatively quickly shown to be correct in her suspicions.

In the end, I’m left to wonder if this whole idea of Will being gay, and possibly Mike and Will being subtextually written as a couple, was simply a case of apophenia. My empathy for Will and identification with him could have caused me to misinterpret things to fit my own personal experiences and unfulfilled adolescent wishes. The dissonance caused by what I thought and what I’m now seeing is what is causing my anger and disappointment. It’s having me relive what I felt so long ago where all I wanted was to see a boy like me happy on TV or in movies. I thought this was going to be what I never had, but, though we still have Season 4 yet to come, it looks like it was simply a case of seeing what we wanted to see. Still, the way they did it reeks of gay-baiting, and I feel used.

#stranger things #stranger things 3 #stranger things 4 #will byers #mike wheeler #byeler #byler

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lollercakesff · 6 years

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Time & Again 16

I’m avoiding packing, so here’s some smut. AO3

“We’re starting to be of the opinion that the changes El has been experiencing are tied with the hormonal changes of adolescence,” Owens explains as he sits behind his desk, El, Hopper and Joyce sitting awkwardly in the chairs across from him.

“So like, her growth spurts and stuff?” Hopper asks as he leans forward, expression tight.

“More like a nuanced version of premenstrual syndrome - “

“PMS?” Joyce scoffs, a nervous laugh escaping from her.

“Exactly. We did an analysis of the symptoms journal El’s been keeping for the past couple months and it lines up loosely with a 28 day pattern. It also works with the theory that this is happening because of a change in the body chemistry that comes with growing up - her peak presentation of her abilities was well documented by Dr Br - “

“Don’t,” Hopper interrupts and threatens, his hand finding his way to El’s shoulder where he squeezes it slightly in support. The mention of Dr Brenner was not something they did lightly - the man’s name often the cause of a recurrence of nightmares that were unpredictable.

“Apologies. As I was saying, her abilities were traced back to link directly with her developmental stages, so it would make sense that they would be changing again to correspond with her major hormonal shifts to adulthood,” Owens stops and looks towards El, leaning onto the desk and crossing his hands together. “Does this make sense to you?”

Both Hopper and Joyce turn towards her, all three of them waiting as she frowns. “Are my abilities going to go away?” She asks quietly, her face guarded.

“That we don’t know. It’s possible, but if I were to make an educated guess I would say that they won’t, but they may evolve, change and become something different over time.” El nods and closes her eyes to take the information in. When she opens them again she has steeled herself once more.

“And what about the seizure?” Joyce questions as she slips her hand around El’s, the silent support speaking volumes.

“That’s the one piece that doesn’t really fit into the theory. If we go with this - and all signs say we should - then it could have been spurred on by high-stress or a moment of peak hormonal changes - “

“I was with Mike,” El interrupts and shrinks in her seat, her body trying to disappear into the chair.

“Yeah, but that shouldn’t - “ Hopper starts, looking between El and Owens.

“We were kissing,” she whispers and covers her face with her hands.

“Oh.” The admission makes Hopper pull up short, his spine straightening as he realizes that there was likely much more going on between the two of them than he’d realized. A thousand things flood his mind and internally he cringes, a cold sweat coating his skin as he tries to keep his mouth shut. Now was not the time to discuss this.

Maybe never, to be honest.

Looking across the desk, Hopper watches as Owens shuffles his papers uselessly. He turns and catches Joyce’s gaze, his eyebrows raised to his hairline as he tries to communicate without words.

“Okay then. Perhaps we know one of the reasons then,” Joyce murmurs, her hands clasped together in her lap. Hopper watches as she settles, her motherly instinct kicking in. Without a doubt he was thankful for her then - her experience with these conversations, with raising boys, and her playbook to these topics. He didn’t know what he’d do without her.

“Will we still be able to - “ El starts, sitting forward in her chair with a jolt as she realizes the opportunity to ask under the guise of surprise was quickly fading.

“El - “ Hopper hisses, biting his tongue and jerking to his feet. “I’ll be outside.” He leaves the office with a burst of movement taking extra care not to let the door slam as he exits.

When El and Joyce step out after him a few minutes later, Hopper has his hat in his hands as he stands in the hallway. “Look - I’m sorry,” he mumbles, unable to meet either of their eyes. Joyce steps to him and gives him a quick hug before resting her hand on El’s shoulder.

“Don’t worry Hop, your girl is smart,” Joyce says with a smile, her expression beaming as she looks down at El. Hopper watches the interaction with his heart in his throat - not for the awkwardness of the conversation he’d avoided, but for the way his girls were building their own relationship of trust and reliance.

“Do I have to like, setup ground rules now?” Hopper groans later, his hands sliding across Joyce’s chest to her collar. Her inhale is quick against his neck as she laughs.

“You want to talk about this now?” Joyce whispers as her teeth nip at his ear, her hands working at his belt buckle.

“God no, I don’t know why - “ She stops his words with her mouth, her hands letting him springfree as he pushes the cups of her bra out of the way. The touch of her hand against his length makes the words disappear from his mind, his attention focused on only her and the heat of her capturing his attention as he strains up towards her.

They’d dropped El off at school before making their way towards the store where she was supposed to be starting her shift. Now they were parked in the alley behind the store, their breath having fogged up the windows as they pressed together. Instead of heading inside to work, they’d gotten distracted as he evolved the goodbye kiss into a makeout session which was quickly dissolving into a quick fuck in the front seat of his truck.

He regretted nothing.

Clothes pushed aside, mouths trailing over exposed skin, Hopper groans when he finally releases the zipper on her pants and slips his fingers between her folds. “When did you get so wet?” He sighs into her mouth as he pushes his fingers inside her. She shivers at the contact and rolls her hips towards him instinctively.

“I wish I didn’t wear jeans today,” she moans in response and Hopper chuckles.

“We can work around them - “

“I just hate fucking in cars,” Joyce interrupts and shifts to get the steering wheel away from her ribs.

“Overly familiar with it?” He jokes and lets go of her as she turns. She kneels on the bench facing the passenger door, her hands struggling with shucking her pants as her arms are bound up in the mess of half-removed shirt and bra. Grunting in frustration, she collapses onto her stomach on the bench.

“Hop,” she whimpers as she twists her head over her shoulder to look at him. He grabs at her jeans and jerks them down until they’re past her thighs, her legs still half covered by them. Entranced by the look of her, he lets his hand slide over the curve of her ass before giving it a light slap. When she closes her eyes and groans at the contact, his body lurches forward and pulls her hips up until she’s leaning on her forearms, his chest pressed to her back.

“Is this okay?” He asks softly, pausing before leaning down to kiss her shoulder through her shirt. His body is on fire and while this was supposed to be quick and dirty, he couldn’t help but check to make sure she was ready.

“So okay,” she hisses as she pushes back into him, her heat drawing him closer.

Moving one hand to her hip and the other to his length, he slides into her with a groan, his body near jumping out of his skin as she envelopes him. She keens on the contact, her hips struggling to stay in place as he rocks into her again and again.

“Jesus, Joyce,” Hopper breathes as he slips a hand under her and against her clit. He can feel his release building and he’s determined to bring her with him but he can barely contain himself with the way her body squeezes around him. “You’re so fucking tight like this. It’s killing me.”

She laughs lightly as her body shivers. “Would you stop talking and just fuck me?” She mumbles and rests her head down on her hands with a moan. He shuts his mouth and takes the hint, pushing his cock in deeper with each thrust until she starts to cry out, her orgasm rolling through her body and taking him with her.

He tries to catch his breath on his hands and knees over top of her, tries to keep his body from collapsing and trapping her against the bench seat, but when she pulls his arm around her shoulder he loses the fight and falls beside her in a cramped mess of limbs.

“Sorry,” she murmurs. “It’s getting cold in here.”

“You’re right. And you’re a bit late for work.” Hopper smiles as she jolts upright, her hands struggling to right her clothing.

He tries to help but she slaps at him, her frustrated growl warning him off. “Where’s that handkerchief you always have shoved between the seats?” She asks as she pushes him into a seated position while he tucks himself back in his pants.

“Why?” He frowns and watches as she sits on the edge of the seat, her pants still down at her knees.

“I need to wipe up!” She grumbles and digs her hand between the cushions. Hopper let’s out a bark of laughter, his hands digging in his coat pocket until he pulls out the piece of cloth. She grabs for it but he pulls it back teasingly.

“Let me,” he whispers as he leans in towards her, his lips at her ear as he slides the cloth between her legs slowly. Her resulting moan goes straight to his loins and he savours the smell of her hair, her shampoo with a hint of sweat mixed in, before he sits back.

She’s slow to pull her pants back up, her gaze locked on his as he slides the cloth back into his pocket. When she leans into him, her lips hovering against his, he can practically feel the way her body thrums with want. The kiss she gives him is soft, light, and far too short, he thinks as she slides out the passenger door. She’s halfway into the rear door of the store when Hopper rolls down his window to watch her go.

“Will I see you tonight?” He calls out to her, half of him wanting to get out of the truck and drag her home for an afternoon alone.

“Yes. We should probably talk about those rules,” she winks and let’s the door slap shut behind her. His girls were going to be the end of him.

#jopper #time and again #joyce x hopper #jopper fanfic #stranger things fanfic

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