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archive2394934 · 1 year
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Just letting you all know this blog is an archive now, I'm not going to updating it or posting on it any more. I will be active on my side blog @figureone and my rp blog, but I've soft blocked most of this blogs followers as I plan to deactivate it once I'm confident I've saved all my theories / headcanons, etc from it that I feel like I want to keep / reference at a later date. ( I think I've already saved and reposted most of my (especially import) stuff but haven't gone through and checked yet! ) I'm also no longer going to be posting those (theories/headcanons/analysis etc for the fandom to see.) I'll obviously still post headcanons and theories and other content like that on my rp blog but yeah, I will not be posting them into the fandom for the fandom to see.
If you're seeing this post that means you're neither stupid nor annoying, congratulations!
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archive2394934 · 1 year
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More of Jamie’s thoughts if he thinks Henry was born evil (and if anyone in general is)
Jamie number one Henry defender rises again
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archive2394934 · 1 year
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Weird genre of person is when fans of media with actually complex and interesting characters get scared by any level of moral ambiguity whatsoever like why are you buying purity at the nuance store
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archive2394934 · 1 year
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just read that one article abt the ways eleven could redeem vecna in s5 and how hes much more complicated (and tragic) than just a “born evil” villain.
“s5 could end the show by showing that redemption is possible instead of making violence the answer” hell yeah i love it when ppl have a big brain AND good taste.
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archive2394934 · 1 year
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"How was old blind dumb Victor? Did he miss me? I've been meaning to check back in, but I've been busy."
I really hope this means there will be a confrontation between Victor and his son in S5. And preferably face-to-face. Or like, psychic-face-to-face. I wanna see how Henry reacts to something like that.
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archive2394934 · 1 year
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Interesting
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archive2394934 · 1 year
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The worst, dumbest, delusional and most out of touch fandom takes about Henry Creel / Vecna: 340 notes. Posts about Henry Creel / Vecna that actually make sense, reflect his canon and are true to the show and its themes: 5 notes.
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archive2394934 · 1 year
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listen in season 5 they're gonna do whatever they're gonna do with characters and relationships and I'm either gonna like it or I'm not just the same as every season but I SWEAR. if they don't give me some SICK AS HELL UPSIDE DOWN LORE-
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archive2394934 · 1 year
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tired of villains always losing, dying in the end of almost every piece of media, especially when they just want to fix the broken system, are the ones who actually make sense, whose trauma/pain is valid and relatable to most people irl, while the heroes just want to save the world because “that’s what heroes do🥰🥰🥰”. not every movie/tv show has to be Disney. sometimes it’s the villains who actually are, in fact, heroes. also… let my pathetic little meow meow of Blorbos win for once. just let them be happy for once in their lives. they deserve it.
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archive2394934 · 1 year
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No big smart thoughts, just wanted to mention roses heavily symbolize secrecy or something hidden / secret, the saying "sub rosa" or "under the rose" comes from this. It links to Greek and Egyptian mythology. HOWEVER, while I'm here, Rose Red was likely a big inspo for s4. Its by Stephen King (ofc) and its basically about a haunted ol' mansion that a group of young psychics are brought to and wild shit happens. "The mansion" or the evil enitity in the mansion, gets a particular interest in a canonly autistic psychic child called Annie, who has strong telekinesis and is basically able to draw things into reality (bc yes shes also an artist) and briefly it seems like shes working with the evil house but she gets free or something- dont quote me its been a long while since I saw it, its from 2002, but anyway the "house" or the evil entity within the house, is also thought to have given the psychics their powers, its also known for creating visual and auditory illusions to fuck with its victims. Like I would be stunned if this series wasn't a source of inspo for the Duffers with season 4.
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Like. Yeah. Check it out of you got the time!
You know... There's something very sus about the rose imagery in the creel home, particularly in the entry way. Because there's no rose wallpaper in the dining room and in the bathroom or any of the other places we see other than there and the stairway (that leads up to the attic among other places). However when we do see shit go down, props with possible rose designs are placed strategically around the supernaturally affected things (the possible rose-y lamps and tupperwear around the radio in the Virginia death scene although the camera never goes close enough to tell for certain).
(and I could even go even more about the abundance of lamps/lights when we see rose imagery in the creel home).
When Victor takes his kids and runs, we takes them into the entry way surrounded by roses and then trances on front of the rose door, facing it. Victor mentions an 'angel' saving him, and switching to Henry's POV for a moment here, when Henry falls to the ground and Victor wakes up we get a shot from up the staircase, which again rose wallpaper, which is an unrecognizable pov.
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archive2394934 · 1 year
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far too old to care about fandom opinions i am an adult with a *sees a take* hm. never mind actually. i am in fact so blessed to have a huge brain and correct inconsequential opinions on fictional characters. there but for the grace of god go i
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archive2394934 · 1 year
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Also I will NOT be normal about the symbolism of Victor having gouged his eyes and that one newspaper saying that HENRY was found with his eyes gouged out. As if gouging ones eyes out hasn't been used as symbolism for Oedipus since forever. Upon realizing he had fallen into his inevitable fate regardless of his best efforts not to, he gouged his eyes out of shame and despair.
Victor killed a family in WW2 (albeit on accident), but it still happened. His PTSD is symbolized by the image of a child being harmed. Upon learning that Henry, his own child, has succumbed to his coma, Victor attempts does what he does. He killed a family. Now his own family is gone and he's alone. An eye for an eye.
But also eyes are a window to the soul. Gouging ones eyes out, or ones eyes being masked, is imagery of someone hiding who they are or losing themselves. They use this in particular in Heriditary, when Peter Ballard Graham finally gets "replaced" by Paimon, the demon.
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I refuse to believe that the duffers would write a season about the horrors of family trauma and not take inspo for this movie. Originally ari aster was going to have Peter actually stab his own eye(s) out but they took it out for whatever reason and settled for the picture. This symbolized Peter "getting out" (ie his soul being ejected) and Paimon replacing him in his body, Peter's inevitable fate. In fact everything about this movie is pretty inevitable as it's revealed that there is an outside force (Ellen's cult) that was orchestrating the demonic ritual the entire time without them knowing.
Henry's eyes weren't actually gouged out, but this little inaccuracy in the reporting is still telling. "Henry's" soul is dead. A demon has taken over, replacing him. A shadow self perhaps?
But also Victor's strange mention of an "angel" that we see no explanation for in Henry's POV. Someone Victor described as having "saved" him, contrasted to his very liberal use of "demon" all throughout his POV to describe something that has cursed the entire town. Henry doesn't mention this, we don't know where the music in Victor's vision came from. Henry most likely didn't do it as he passes out shortly before Victor wakes up and Henry notoriously can't multitask so it's a wonder how he even vecna-d Victor while killing Alice (Henry is definitely leaving stuff out from his story).
Like the cult in Heriditary, there is an outside force perhaps manipulating events- ie staging a demonic ritual for a desired outcome:
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archive2394934 · 1 year
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Ok, I don't know what Pennywise is doing in the lead and thats not even the Vecna fan in me talking thats the horror movie / monster fan, but this fandom disappoints me every day so I shouldn't be surprised. When I think about it theres probably nothing funnier than the people on this thinking Vecna would get pwned by IT when the popular fanon take is that Vecna's a mean heartless asshole psychopath who excels in being a mean asshole psychopath and all the Losers had to do to beat IT in the movie was be mean to IT, like you don't think Vecna could roast IT with far greater and crueler conviction than some awkward adults who just called it a "Dumb fucking mother fucking stupid clown" to get in a kill shot, be for real, this whole scene exists. Like I'm just going on what was shown in the IT movies and novels here vs what we've been shown in Stranger Things. IT needs its victims to fear it to be able to harm them, why would Vecna, a lover of spiders and terrifying monster in his own right, be scared of either a clown OR a big fucking spider? He loves big fucking spiders and UNLIKE IT, Vecna doesn't NEED his victims to fear him. There is no requirement that his victims feel any type of special emotion for Vecna to be able to attack them. He just targets those with guilt / shame and trauma because [insert a big explanation here so for now we'll just say its relevant to his personal interests to save time] but actually he can kill anyone he wants just because he FEELS like it. There is NOTHING actually binding Vecna to any one type of target for any reason. His powers are his to control, they don't rely on anyone else's emotions BUT his own. And what's IT suppose to do to kill Vecna exactly? Whats IT suppose to do to strike fear into Vecna exactly? Vecna doesn't even have to physically be present to fuck with IT. IT has no real remarkable powers outside of being a big toothy spider who can create illusions based on its victims fear. Its dangerous to humans, especially children because of this and its size but its not some invulnerable god who can't be killed with physical force either. If I remember right, in the novel, the Losers were essentially able to crush its heart to kill it after finding a way inside its body. Thats all they had to do. That was the feat of normal humans with no special powers.
Vecna has insane powers and is likened to an undead demi-god. We don't even know if he can be killed, because setting him on fire and filling him with shot gun shells didn't do it, so he's looking a lot more durable than Pennywise at this point. (Just based on how IT died vs how Vecna has yet to and the punishments they endured from the protags to get from A to B) So not only does Vecna cast powerful illusions himself that DONT need his victims to fear him or even know he exists, but he can snap bones and pop organs with just his mind as well. He has such power he was killing people literally across dimensions. He wouldn't even have to get inside IT to crush its heart or be mean enough to it to shrink into a weird helpless larvae. He could fucking waste IT without even leaving his attic with all that in mind. Personally though I think game recognizes game so they would have no reason to beef anyway. Like the fact is Vecna just wouldn't want to kill a big cool monster spider and once IT realizes it couldn't make Vecna fear it to make him easy or worthwhile prey (and probably also wasn't feeling hungry for undead demi god anyway) they'd be at a stalemate. And thats how Vecna and IT became best friends and began to terrorize the multiverse together.
Please elaborate if you would! This is for science! Also I know the It fandom is smaller than the St fandom but I’m asking for you to actually think about who would win and not just vote for your fandom’s monster!
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archive2394934 · 1 year
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I've decided I wanted to share something I was talking about on my rp blog recently because I just wanted to write a post something like this anyway so below is copy pasted from a section of headcanon stuff I wrote the other night: Note that a big chunk of this is MY PERSONAL HEADCANONS, like Henry's birthday for example, and not anything I would say with 100% certainty is gonna be an actual thing (though I'm sure I'm pretty damn close with stuff) but since I'm drawing everything from canon I thought it would be fun to share so here we go!: To start off I'm sure I've mentioned it a million times before but March is a "special" month in Hawkins according to me. Not only is it the month of Henry's birthday, but its the month the Creel's moved to Hawkins. This is how I'm explaining the repeating theme of March in the Stranger things canon. (Including Will's birthday, Billy's birthday, and the entirety of Season 4 beginning in March and, as an update, I think its very interesting that the reveal about the stage play being focused on Henry's childhood was announced in March, right on my birthday actually! (Well it was my birthday for me bc timezones lol) The March theme specifically surrounding Henry continues! I do stay winning.)
I don't know how canon is going to explain any of that, if its not just a coincidence, but since I'm insane and I love creating patterns and symbolism I've already decided to go a little nuts with it and so here are some more thoughts on that: I'm putting the date the Creel's officially moved into the house in Hawkins as March 2nd, because thats my birthday and I'm allowed. Henry's birthday is March 8th, which is also when Henry had his first "encounter" with "The Shadow" (The Mindflayer.)
March 22nd is Will's birthday and also the day Henry discovered his extreme psychic abilities, *(This would be around the time the scene with the rabbit and Henry moving the hands of the clock occured) and March 29th, which is Billy's birthday, is the day Henry killed his mother and sister. Something else I also mentioned in other posts is the fact that Stranger Things, particularly Season 4, drew a lot of inspo from Western / Christian mythology and its my insane provocative to mirror this and this is no different.
March and April tend to be thought of as significant months therein because of the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus, March being the preparation for Jesus' resurrection and April being the month in which that took place. I'm mirroring this with Henry in March as the period where Henry encounters the MF and develops his powers and April being the month when Brenner kidnaps Henry and he wakes up from his "coma" in Brenner's care. I also think I mentioned this once before in passing but I wanted to mention it again. In my headcanon, the one and only time Henry was ever actually “diagnosed” with anything despite having a long history of difficulties with school and thus repeated doctor’s consultations, was after moving to Hawkins, fairly late into the month, maybe more around the middle, after Henry's encounter with the MF. They diagnosed him with childhood schizophrenia. Obviously this was a misdiagnosis but it was the 50s and it was common for ASD to be misdiagnosed this way back then. That being said, one of the big factors in Henry’s diagnosis was his “strange thinking” and “unusual perceptions.” If you’ve read my post here you know I have a running theory that the being known as the Mindflayer by the party ( Who I perceive to be the Stranger Things version of The Serpent from DnD ) was able to “commune” with Henry long before he ever got to the Upside Down thanks to Henry’s latent psychic abilities and this was thus what really woke those abilities and certainly amplified them in a way we haven’t seen with any other psychic character in the series. ( Once again, look up DnD Vecna and “The Serpent” from DnD, I promise it all makes perfect sense) In my headcanon Henry kind of... Did try to express to his parents what he was “experiencing” but of course this was extremely difficult for him because unlike Will, Henry’s environment wasn’t a loving, open, accepting one. Henry’s mother didn’t believe him or take him seriously on anything and this was a pre-established thing which made it hard for Henry to actually try to communicate anything with his family in the first place. He was seen as suffering delusions and mental illness.
No, He didn’t really know how to explain it but most pressingly the knowing that no one would understand or even want to understand or believe him meant Henry was withdrawn, defensive, deflective and standoffish even if he really did want to talk to his family and be “more cooperative” with them, so to speak. On top of this, Henry found himself frustrated by his family's “superstitions” particularly when his own attempts to explain where thought of with such concern. Victor was the only one who kind of gave Henry any heed but even then Henry wasn’t taken very seriously by the family at large and again, a lot of the goings on of the house were blamed on a “demon” which Henry had a lot of contempt for given he knew a lot of the things in the house that were upsetting his family were coming more from him and his anger with them, but he couldn’t really explain how or why he suddenly knew the things he did or could do the things he could do, or could see the things he could see. In his retelling in the show, Victor explicitly confirms that he could see “[Henry] knew something was wrong.” And we also know Victor went to the EXTENT of having an exorcist preformed on the house. When Will is “possessed” by the Mindflayer in season 2, he talks about how he suddenly knows things, things that he didn’t know before but he doesn’t know how he knows them. I imagine Henry encountered a similar phenomenon when he was subconsciously linked to the Mindflayer entity in his childhood. Henry began to know things he couldn’t explain and he did “SEE” the Mindflayer cloud in dreams / visions as well. *( Given I think its clear the MF is a metaphor for the Shadow Self this is another nod to that from me personally, btw) None the less, Henry's “diagnosis” at the back end of all this was the big factor in his mother getting into contact with Brenner, who at the time was labeled a leading “expert” in the “human mind” as back in the 50s, neurodivergence and mental illness was not well understood and due to the societal and political climate, particularly in the US, Virginia saw institutionalizing Henry as the “best option”. WHICH brings me to a post I made last night that I'm going over really quick because I think its relevant. From this point on I'm largely talking about explicit canon rather than my own thoughts / headcanons. There is a lot of supernatural repetition in Vecna's "curse" and his behaviors. He often repeats moments on his trauma, projecting them onto this victims who then live them too, and the scene with Max in the Piggy Back episode seems to be an INCREDIBLY interesting instance of this. (Heres a shitty video I made with my phone for emphasis.)
Why ? Because Vecna says this: ❝ Is that… All true? You wanted Billy to die ? You ever have thoughts like that about me? Normal people don't fantasize about killing other people, Max. You realize that, right? I thought you were getting better - but you're not, are you? You are sick. Maybe it is good he takes you. Maybe its for the best. In fact, I'm glad its going to be you. You will be the chosen one. The Fourth. The final sacrifice! Its going to be you that BREAKS THE WORLD.❞
(*Also because I noted it when I originally mentioned it the other night I just wanna say its very interesting that every time Vecna has done this that we know of, ie when he uses an "illusion" of himself speaking through another character, the prime examples being Billy in this scene from s3 and Lucas here, he's, FOR SOME REASON, always shown speaking through tears. Why? If this is a remorseless, emotionless, monstrous psychopath why does he display it this way? Because this isn't Billy Or Lucas in these scenes, this is HIM. This is an illusion he has complete control over. And I wouldn't say hes displaying it that way just to distress the victim, because Eleven didn't really have any emotional attachment to Billy to be particularly hurt by seeing him in tears/hurt. Just something to think about anyway.) And on the topic of that supernatural repetition, this is displayed CONSTANTLY. For me "Vecna's Curse" is as much about Vecna "being cursed" and the things HE has suffered, (perhaps as a result) as it is about the "curse" he places on others.
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This gif from this post for another example. Like the examples of this are absolutely everywhere. Now let me just direct you all back to the scene with Will and Joyce in season 2 when Will begins to explain the thoughts he's having and the things he can see after being "contacted" by the Mindflayer. He begins to talk about killing people and people dying, and the horrible things he's seeing. Joyce reassures him and protects him, like a good mother would - but you know who has been HEAVILY suggested to have NOT had a good mother, and instead, canonly described his mother as hating him and who seemed to just want to blame him? Who just wanted her son "taken away" by a doctor to be "fixed"? And thus would have ultimately sacrificed him to maintain her ideal of normal, happy family? Henry. Who is the one who has actually been "chosen" to "Break the world"? Henry.
More than that, the way he explicitly called Max a "sacrifice" is interesting, particularly when you put it with the scene in season 3 when flayed Billy, who is widely believed to have been under the control of Vecna at the time, (*Which I do believe) incapacitates Eleven and instead of just killing her he goes to the effort of taking her to the mindflayer's Proxy body and offering her to it, as if an act of propitiation. And we had a previous scene of Flayed!Billy, talking to Flayed!Heather, in which SOMEHOW Flayed!Heather knows who Eleven is, but Flayed!Billy is furious because this is his first experience with her and Flayed!Heather has to reassure him that "they'll" win. (*Which I actually made a whole post about in the past I'm too lazy to go find it lol) Again... Just some interesting shit to think about here.
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archive2394934 · 1 year
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Hi op! Hope you don't mind me "butting in" to this one but I read it and now I got thoughts I'm gonna vomit here. I really like a lot of your posts btw. Read-morning my fat ramble also because its heavy shit.
But anyway in this fandom there has been a lot of discussion about C/SA and the strange vibes and undertones the show seems to give about it. A lot of the fandom has linked this back to Henry with the gross ol take that he's the child rapist. Though this often also comes from them acknowledging that they believe HE is a rape victim too. And I just wanted to say, I think, ultimately, this is the real source of where the rape / csa vibes Venca gives off with his curse comes from IF that is ACTUALLY suppose to be some type of canon factor. Outside of the mindflayer and the alien creatures of the upside down that seem to be the things committing the actual bodily "rape" even if in a metaphorical way through possession and creepy alien tenacles, Vecna does say and do some things that seem allude to some type of rape as well but I don't think its suppose to be a manifestation of him being a rapist or committing actual rape. ( I mean come on, why people think they can say he's literally raping anyone when he never does is wild anyway ) But the thing for me is when Vecna does this he's almost ALWAYS showing or supernaturally "projecting" the emotion of SOMETHING that was done TO HIM so rather than him ACTUALLY doing that exact thing to someone else he does something that invokes a similar feeling of helplessness and fear etc because he seems doomed to repeat this over and over- I've mentioned before but I'll mention again: I think "Vecna's curse" is as much, if not more, in regard to the suffering of Vecna as it is of the "victims" that are marked. When it comes to characters outside of Nancy, these characters were not raped, they were literally killed and Vecna seems to think he's saved or freed them from their own suffering, HOWEVER, the thing with Nancy is interesting because I think its what most highlights this idea of Vecna being a victim of some type of sexual abuse. Vecna shows Nancy a very disturbing vision of him as a child where hes strapped to a chair while Brenner forces the 001 tattoo on him against his will. Child Henry is clearly afraid and in pain but he's forced to undergo this as Brenner creepily reassures him its fine and not so bad, while he casually tattoos his arm, holding Henry's wrist still all the while as Henry squirms and struggles, clearly showing this isn't fine. Vecna then catches Nancy in the chair in a similar away, holding her there and showing her a frightening vision of the "future" of Hawkins which disturbs her. Therefore Nancy is forced to experience a similar scenario of fear and helplessness and perhaps even violation that Henry experienced, but just not entirely in the same way. Vecna doesn't do anything to actually physically harm Nancy. He doesn't cause her pain like that, its just the similar emotional impact. So yeah, I can understand things coming across as SA allogories but its not because Vecna is committing SA, or we're suppose to think he is, I think its more because hes supernaturally bound to repeat and project a similar FEELING of helplessness, pain and violation HE actually suffered in a literal sense. So yeah, if this is true and something the audience was suppose to pick up on it wasn't suppose to be in the sense of representing or suggesting Vecna is the rapist but more to the opposite of suggesting or representing that Vecna has suffered either actual rape or something similar. (We dont have any canon to actually show Henry suffering an actual instance of SA, but we do have him being brutally tortured as a regular occurrence and so therefore suffering from other cruel, oppressive, demeaning and violating situations in the lab would not be out of line and seems to fit perfectly here with the few things we have seen.)
And thats why I think, if he did suffer any actual literal rape, its linked to the lab and THIS very twisted and disturbingly believable theory about Henry being the sire of at least some of the lab kids, if not all. Whether Henry knew about his status as the children's father or not I HIGHLY doubt he was an active, and certainly not consenting party and even the "solo explanation" is horrifying as a matter of just harvesting sperm from him. Which is what I was kind of wanting to mention here in regards to this little discussion because it would literally make the lab kids the physical products and the living mockery and reminder of his rape, especially if he does know about this for whatever reason. So yeah, you're so RIGHT there because I think it would be fucked to suggest that he has to be kind to them based on the virtue of them being his "biological" children or there was anything particularly evil about his decision to off them as a result. If anything at all I think it only would serve further justify Henry's mindset when he saw it best or just to annihilate those kids. I cant imagine the trauma and psychological distress of knowing you were repeatedly raped from as young as 12 to produce a bunch of super-babies who will be the biggest threats to your safety and freedom as they were raised, not by you, but by the facility and the men and women that raped, exploited and abused you for most of your life and continue to do so, as weapons to be used against you and anyone else that they liked. Tbh, if that was the canon case, and for anyone who believes in this theory, then yeah, Henry has never been more justified in killing those kids to be fucking for real, the horror and psychological toll of that is absolutely immeasurable and if killing them was his only option for safety and freedom, (Which I think is canon fact REGARDLESS to if they were his kids or not) why should we instead expected him to sacrifice that to "protect" and be "kind" to them on the virtue of being biologically related to him? Doesn't feel right to me. And innocent though they may have been in what happened to him to produce this fact if that is true- they still would been a massive danger to him.
Also Henry being the father to all the lab kids is more disturbing when you think about the fact he had no problem killing all of them
right!!!! it's fucked up!!!!
but like, this does also make me wonder if he... doesn't know that they're all related to him?? like i guess if all of the women bearing his offspring were under the influence of drugs, he also could have been?
but i think he's smart enough that he would have figured it out anyway even if Brenner never really made it clear to him, so yeah, even if it was just an unconfirmed hunch on Henry's end, it's sooo gnarly that he was so angry that he not only decided to kill a bunch of kids, but a bunch of kids that are his.
like, his motive for killing everyone at the lab is founded though. not to condone mass murder LOL but this guy just scooped him up out of his potential newfound freedom away from his family, trapped him in this lab-prison for his whole life, and when he didn't obey orders, Brenner decided to steal from him and create new life and new power without his consent.
like, if all of the kids are related to him, it almost makes even more sense that he killed them, bc he'd look at them and see his own freedom being stomped all over. it's his power being ripped away from him and being shared in a way he doesn't approve of.
and then like, it's just the immediate and direct way to get back at Brenner. to literally tear apart all of his hard work and blatantly show all of the blood Brenner has on his hands because of Henry.
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archive2394934 · 1 year
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“i’m gay” “i’m straight” okay well im bringing all that is fear and all that is terror and all that is the awful dread that crawls and chokes and blinds and falls and twists and leaves and hides and weaves and burns and hunts and rips and bleeds and DIES. girl im opening the door
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archive2394934 · 1 year
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