#the chantry thing | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

v-arbellanaris · 1 year

Text

on divine justinia (pt 3)

Justinia V will be remembered as one of the most progressive Divines in the history of the Chantry. Before her untimely death at the Temple of Sacred Ashes, she made strides to break down barriers for both mages and elves, as well as encouraging free thought among the Maker’s many children. For her views, she won as many enemies as she did supporters.

-- World of Thedas Vol 2.

PART THREE of a series, exploring Divine Justinia’s political stance. Was she really as progressive as people claimed?

Firstly, before we even dive into looking at Justinia as a character, we should define ‘progressive’. In the most base of definitions, it implies progress -- a gradual betterment. As a widely accepted definition, someone whose politics advocate for social reform.

PART ONE - LELIANA'S SONG. / PART TWO - DRAGON AGE II. / PART THREE - THE MASKED EMPIRE.

The Masked Empire

As always, before we begin, here's some contextual factors to this story that are necessary to know/things I'm going to emphasise here out of relevance:

There are three weeks in-world between the events of TME and Asunder -- that means the Order is still bound to the Chantry, and the Circles are still very much in-tact.

One year after the events in Kirkwall, Fiona is elected as the new Grand Enchanter and immediately proposes to secede from the Chantry. In response, the Chantry disbands the College of Enchanters and stops them from meeting, despite the fact that this vote did not go through (in large part due to the urging of Wynne).

The War of the Lions hasn't yet started in earnest, though tensions between Gaspard and Celene are running high.

For the most part, I'm going to focus specifically on two scenes, both involving conversations between Celene and Leliana, who is acting as a representative for Divine Justinia.

Well! Let's dive right into it -- in this first scene, Leliana and Celene meet to discuss the growing mage-templar tensions, and what Justinia will do about it.

Celene: The templars have become even more restless since what happened in Kirkwall, as have the mages, for that matter. What does Dorothea intend to do? Leliana: The Divine does not wish to assume that what transpired in Kirkwall was anything more than the actions of a single mad mage driven to tragic action by overzealous templars. You know that in some Marcher city-states, mages face more restrictions than they do in Orlais.

"A single mad mage" is an obvious reference to Anders. Anders was not "mad" -- some strange writing decisions seemed to conflate his shared body with a spirit of Justice to having bipolar disorder. Even if you do interpret that as Anders also being bipolar, that wouldn't make him crazy. More than that, Anders protested Meredith's treatment of mages -- and he was right about all of it, in the end. Alrik really was making mages Tranquil to rape them -- and he really did propose a Tranquil solution to the Divine, who rejected it. (Unsurprising, considering the looming threat of the Qunari invasion in Act 2; I've written here about how the Circle functions primarily as a military resource and how the only time you see mages let out in Kirkwall properly is during the Qunari invasion when the templars instruct the Circle mages to defend the city). Meredith really was turning Harrowed mages Tranquil -- Karl Thekkla, for example, but she also turns Maddox Tranquil and can turn all of the surviving Starkhaven mages Tranquil as well -- against Chantry law. Most damningly, Meredith had already called for the Right of Annulment in Kirkwall long before Anders took any action at all -- she really was going to kill all of the mages and had taken the steps necessary to facilitate that action. Anders' actions were a direct response to Meredith asking the Divine for permission to slaughter the entire Circle. Cassandra interrogates Varric in 9:41, and it's unclear where that fits into this timeline, but Varric does say that he was brought to Haven after his interrogation. I'll give Leliana (and Justinia) the benefit of the doubt here and say that maybe they don't have the full story just yet.

But Leliana also says "overzealous templars" -- overzealous templars that Leliana and Justinia had plenty of opportunity to censure or bring to heel, and never did. Overzealous templars -- because of course, they're just very passionate when they're sending death squads to hunt down civilians accused of helping "apostates" and murdering nobility trying to organise an election of a new Viscount. They're just very passionate about their beliefs in the Maker when they make mages Tranquil to rape them, when they beat Tranquil mages over things they can't control, and making eleven year old children Tranquil. They're just very passionate about their beliefs in the Maker which is why they refused to investigate the actual serial killer using magic in Kirkwall, because they wanted to remain in favour with the nobility. And Justinia knows this because this was going on for three years, during which Justinia did nothing until the mages started to rebel.

More importantly, this is ... the direct opposite of what Leliana said in DA2. In DA2, Leliana explicitly states that they (both herself and the Divine, who she speaks on behalf of) attribute the unrest in Kirkwall to the Resolutionists -- an offshoot of the Libertarian Fraternity, who are interested in freeing mages from the Circle. Not that the unrest was a result of horrific abuses in the Circle, or even the untenable political situation in Kirkwall. There was certainly no indication that Justinia suspected or agreed that the templars overstepped their bounds -- there was no directive from Justinia, who would have overruled Elthina on the matter, forcing Meredith to back down. There was no statement ever claiming that the templars were wrong to act as they did. If anything, Justinia threatened an Exalted March to help the templars maintain their control of Kirkwall.

So why phrase it like this? I think the interesting thing to note here is actually Leliana's use of the phrase "the Divine does not wish to assume". This seems to indicate that at this time, Justinia is trying not to treat the situation as a mage rebellion - she is treating Kirkwall, not as the start of a mage rebellion, but rather an isolated incident involving a single crazy mage and some passionate templars. There is some indication here that she's reluctant to consider Kirkwall or the mages voting for secession as indicative of a wider problem but...

“I do,” Celene said, “and I also know that you have not answered my question. If Dorothea proposes to do nothing to unite the templars and the mages, she is following in the footsteps of Grand Cleric Elthina, who waited and prayed while Kirkwall tore itself apart.” She turned and faced Nightingale directly. The other woman had reacted again at the use of the Divine’s given name. “Justinia wishes to see this world made better, Your Radiance. We gain nothing by acting capriciously.” “Sometimes events do not allow us the time we wish, especially when magic is at play.” Celene looked at Nightingale, who sat as a proper lady, relaxed and poised in her simple robes, and made a guess. “I understand that during the last Blight, the Circle tower in Ferelden was nearly lost when one of their senior mages became an abomination. After killing the creatures, the Hero of Ferelden was forced to decide on the spot whether to kill every remaining mage in the tower.” Her barb struck home, as Nightingale blinked, then said with heat, “We are hardly in the thick of battle, Your Radiance.” “We are always in battle,” Celene said. “It is only that some of us do not always realize it."

Following on from the thread of the previous conversation, to me, Celene seems to be urging Leliana to tell the Divine to take more definitive action against the mages. She deliberately creates a parallel between Elthina insisting she had control of the situation and not taking direct action to Justinia insisting Kirkwall was a single isolated incident. She directly draws parallels between how Elthina's lack of action led to the situation in Kirkwall and how Justinia's lack of action could lead to a similar situation with the mages and templars.

More alarmingly, however, is Celene's next, far more subtle proposal. To me, I was always baffled by why Celene suddenly started to talk about Kinloch Hold, but after looking at this context, I actually think Celene is suggesting a much more permanent, direct resolution to the mage problem, similar to the kind of decision the HoF had to make - whether or not to annul the entire Circle.

To me, I think this reads as Celene proposing the Chantry goes to war on the mages. She chooses the specific example of Kinloch Hold because Leliana was there - so that Leliana will not misunderstand the kind of action she expects the Divine to take.

To Leliana's credit, she does retort that the conflict hasn't escalated to the point where that's necessary yet, and that the Divine does not wish to act "capriciously".

“Perhaps I might,” Celene said, and smiled before lowering her voice and continuing. “Divine Justinia must know this: I have nobles begging in private salons for the throne to take direct action in this matter.” At Leliana’s shocked look, she nodded. “There are men of Orlais who would sooner see us march upon our own people in the name of safety. I would despise that. Dorothea knows that I would. But I must offer them some alternative.” Leliana stood, frowning in thought. “You wish the Divine to make some overt show of ameliorating the situation.” Celene let out a breath. “In truth, any overt show will bring complaints that I have allowed the Chantry free rein to rule this empire for me,” she said, and Leliana nodded wordlessly. “But if Justinia can calm tempers before I am forced to turn the blade of the empire upon itself, then I will pay such a price willingly.” Leliana smiled. “You think less for yourself and more for Orlais than I had expected, Your Radiance. It is a fortunate quality in a ruler, and one I have not seen enough.” Celene stood as well, and for a moment her gown was bathed in the crimson light of the stained glass. “Tell me something. How large was the Archdemon?” Leliana laughed the delicate cultured laugh of a noblewoman or trained bard. The effect made her sister’s robes look like a poor disguise. “Large enough, Your Radiance, that after having seen it, most problems seem small by comparison.” Her face turned serious, and she added, “I will ask Justinia to consider acting directly. She will want your support, to head off accusations that she might be attempting to steal power for herself.” “Of course. Perhaps if she made a statement at a ball thrown in her honor?” Leliana considered it. “It is not the place where one would expect her to make such a pronouncement…” “Which is why you like the idea,” Celene said, smiling.

Celene makes it clear here that the Orlesian nobility is restless about the growing mage/templar situation which is quickly growing unstable. I specifically want to draw attention to Celene's phrasing here - "march upon our own people in the name of safety" - because I think the implication here that she considers the mages as "her own people" is an appeal to Leliana to get the Divine to act.

But how does she want Justinia to act? At a first glance, it seems reasonable here that Celene is asking for Justinia to try and talk to the mages and templars and settle things between them. Except, when Leliana specifically asks whether Justinia should "make some overt show or ameliorating the situation", Celene's response is that "any overt show will bring complaints" - which reads to me as a decline. She is declining that Justinia should try to reason with both parties.

On top of that, there's some more ambigious phrasing here. ".. if Justinia can calm tempers" - Celene makes no mention here of whose tempers she means. From a first glance perspective, or even from Leliana's perspective, it might seem like she's referring to the roused tempers of the templars and mages, following on from the actions in Kirkwall. But with the context of the previous paragraph in mind, where she very much points out that the nobility of Orlais are not happy with the state of the mage/templar situation, I think she's referring to Justinia doing something that will calm the tempers of the nobility of Orlais.

Later, she follows it up with the phrase "I will pay such a price willingly", referring to the public loss of opinion with the nobility if Justinia can calm these tempers. To Leliana, I imagine it reads as something magnanimous - indeed, Leliana even says that Celene thinks "more for Orlais" than herself, which was unexpected.

But to me, it reads as Celene promising Justinia that if the situation worsens, if Justinia calls for an Exalted March on the mages, Orlais will answer the call. Orlais is willing to march on the mages, if only Justinia calls for an Exalted March, and Orlais -- through it's Empress -- is willing to lose the small amount of public opinion - that people might whisper she's allowing the Chantry free reign of Orlais (and, presumably, all it's resources, for the purposes of this Exalted March, which is actually... an interesting perspective for Orlais to take. But I will not get sidetracked here) - if it accomplishes the greater goal of resolving the mage/templar tensions directly and definitively, because the lack of resolution is causing a negative reaction from the Orlesian nobles, which we know Gaspard is taking advantage of.

(Important to note: at this point, an Exalted March is still entirely feasible; the Order is still bound to the Chantry by the Nevarran Accord. Justinia has been considering an Exalted March since 9:37, though Leliana's dialogue suggests she's hesitant to go through with it. Historically, Orlais has contributed to the Exalted Marches and has been the sole contributor of at least one Exalted March.)

But Vee, I hear you say, this is absurd. Surely, this is a bad faith reading of the situation, no way Celene would propose something like this. No way Leliana or even Justinia would agree to this.

I have several counterarguments to this: firstly, the Grand Game of Orlais relies on complexity of word play and layered meanings. It relies on saying on thing and meaning, at the very minimum, three other things. It's entirely plausible for Celene to be appealing to Leliana's sense of empathy and justice, to seem to be proposing that Justinia soothe the tempers of the mages and templars to prevent something worse from happening, using the same words that she's actually proposing something entirely different - and more violent and direct - to Justinia with.

Secondly, by the time Justinia calls for the Conclave at the Temple of Sacred Ashes, she already has a writ for the creation of the Inquisition prepared and Leliana already has agents planted in the Hinterlands, only minutes away from Redcliffe, where the mage rebellion is seeking refuge. The Inquisition was planned and I am fairly sure that the Inquisition was created specifically to march on the mages. This is not a last minute thought - that writ is huge - this was planned. This was in the works already - why isn't it feasible that this is where it starts? Justinia was already considering an Exalted March on Kirkwall. Why is it so unfeasible that she'd consider more direct action to deal with the mages?

Thirdly, there's actually a follow-up conversation with Leliana about this that I think pretty much confirms that this is what Celene and Leliana (and as she's a proxy for Justinia, also the Divine) are discussing here.

Take the next excerpt:

Celene shut her eyes. “And what does the Divine think about this?” Leliana smiled. “The Divine has never had a very high opinion of the theater, Your Radiance.” At Celene’s silence, the Divine’s representative sighed. “The elves are the children of the Maker, just as we are, and just as deserving of His grace.” “But the Divine will not say that,” Celene guessed. Leliana looked away. She had been trained as a bard, so every movement she made was likely deliberate, but Celene thought that her discomfort was genuine. “I have … been comrade-in-arms with elves. I would not see them harmed. But you did not ask for her support in that matter.” She looked back at Celene. “You asked for her support calming the templars and the mages.” “Indeed.” Celene nodded. “And will she give that support?” Leliana let out a breath. “She will,” she said, nodding slowly, “but in return, she needs to know that this matter with the elves is under control.” Celene felt her heart break inside her, for all that she had known within moments how the conversation would go. She breathed a tiny sigh, and then said, “Of course. I could hardly ask the Divine to keep her affairs in order were I not willing to do the same myself. I hope you enjoy the coming ball in Justinia’s honor. I fear I will not be able to attend in person.” “The Divine understands,” Leliana said, and in a soft, sad voice, added, “Walk with the Maker’s blessing.”

I've written a little bit before on how Justinia doesn't seem to care very much about the methods that Celene uses to resolve the situation with the elves -- it's Leliana who hopes for a peaceful resolution. It's Leliana who believes elves are children of the Maker.

But I actually think what's happening in this scene is more horrifying than I initially thought. This is the second interaction between the two -- and with the context of the first scene, it feels like this is Leliana saying the Divine has agreed to more drastic measures for the mage rebellion if Celene will also deal with the elven rebellion. That the Divine will accept Orlais' support and march on the mages if Celene can deal with the elven rebellion quickly.

This is Leliana passing on Divine Justinia's agreement to a more permanent solution to the mage rebellion. This is Divine Justinia agreeing to an Exalted March on the mage rebellion, and agreeing to support Celene if Celene will support her. Justinia's support here is conditional on Celene maintaining control - and Celene's support is conditional on Justinia maintaining control.

That's...horrifying. But why else would Leliana sound sad, unless she knew exactly what Celene was going to do? What the Divine was allowing Celene to do? What the Divine was telling Celene to do in exchange for the solution Celene proposed? Celene herself explicitly states that she cannot ask the Divine to take action without also being willing to take kind of action herself.

And as we know, the direct action Celene takes to deal with the rumours in Orlais of her sympathising with elves, to solidify her political position, is to slaughter all the elves in the Halamshiral alienage. That is the clearest indication to me that what Celene was proposing was an Exalted March on the mages - and the Divine agreed.

i want you to keep in mind that, at this stage, the College of Enchanters has been dissolved. Fiona has proposed seceding from the Chantry but the vote did not pass. For the most part, there is no mage rebellion currently; they've been cut off from each other, their right of assembly has been revoked, and the templars are still very much aligned with the Chantry. What Justinia is agreeing to here is if the situation gets worse, she will take action, and Orlais will back her up on it.

This sets up the background for Asunder; the Divine's last ditch attempt at resolving the situation before she takes definitive action against the mages.

Could they be with Gaspard, countering Celene’s plan? Unlikely. Ser Michel would never have turned traitor, and while Melcendre had lured him out with blackmail once, he was still too ashamed to allow such a ruse to work twice. They had come from Celene. Had Gaspard done something to force the empress’s hand? Had the Divine made a new demand? What had changed Celene’s mind? Then, as she came past the torches, Briala saw the night sky, glowing a sooty red. She smelled the smoke of Halamshiral’s slums burning. After that, Briala stopped thinking.

#i think this is going to be the most controversial one yet #my da meta #dragon age: the masked empire #divine justinia v #da the masked empire #celene valmont #leliana #justinia critical #celene critical #anti chantry #edit: added an extra sentence for clarity #the entire justinia/celene thing is quid pro quo. and it relies on them keeping in power #edited x2: for some spelling errors and a missing hyperlink #on divine justinia meta series

116 notes · View notes

vigilskeep · 1 year

Note

Do you understand how Kirkwall politics work? Ik theres a viscount but like…is it just viscount and Templar’s? Three people?

i don't know a lot off the top of my head but let's take a look!

kirkwall is ruled by a viscount. it does seem to be a hereditary position, but if the viscount has no heirs or the line is otherwise removed from power, kirkwall's nobility have the right to elect a new viscount. so there's definitely an established noble class who have a powerful say in what happens. world of thedas lists the amells, the threnholds, and the reinhardts as the most powerful hightown houses at the start of the dragon age, but both the amells and threnholds collapsed before da2. (prior to their collapse, the amells were one of the foremost noble families in the whole free marches, with four centuries of history to their bloodline.) we interact with families like the harrimanns and de launcets in da2 and leandra mentions the reinhardts still being around.

viscounts' lines don't seem particularly long-lasting; marlowe dumar is the first in his. his predecessor perrin threnhold inherited the role from his father, but the father was also first in his short-lived line and "took power through a campaign of intimidation" rather than just, like, inheriting it. (this is confirmed by a codex stating the threnholds only came to power less than a week after maric retook the fereldan throne.) the implication is that saemus dumar would have been a potential heir to marlowe had he lived, but i don't remember anyone taking this possibility seriously in the game and given his politics i'm sure the nobility and templars alike would never remotely consider allowing it

the title of viscount was introduced by the orlesians, who ruled kirkwall from 7:60 storm to 8:05 blessed after liberating it from a four-year qunari occupation. they also introduced the kirkwall city guard, a force answerable to the viscount. the people of kirkwall threw out the orlesians but kept the title and the associated guard.

the templars have no official control of the city. however, the viscount's office is effectively so weak by the time of da2 that it is impossible to hold without templar support. this is because of what happened under viscount dumar's predecessor, viscount perrin threnhold. brother genitivi refers to perrin as "even worse" than his "vicious thug" father. perrin used those ancient chains in kirkwall's harbour to block orlesian ships and charge exorbitantly heavy taxes on them. this was naturally a poorly received move in orlais but also in kirkwall, as it limited trade, the lifeblood of the city. divine beatrix iii, who the codex claims was acting "as a friend to the emperor", ordered the templars to pressure the viscount into stopping, despite knight-commander guylian having refused similar requests from kirkwall's nobles and insisting even to the divine that their place was to protect the city from magic not from itself. perrin responded by hiring a mercenary army—odd that it wasn't the city guard, possibly implying they turned against him in favour of the nobles?—that ultimately stormed the gallows and executed guylian, with the intention of expelling the templars entirely from the city. in the end perrin was arrested, and presumably executed, if his successor being gifted his blood-encrusted signet ring as a threat is anything to go by. this seems to have been well received in kirkwall; the templars "were hailed as heroes". guylian was replaced with meredith, who personally directly appointed marlowe dumar

meredith's choice is an interesting one. the dumars were noble, but considerably modest compared to other noble families, with some of their income from trade that the dumars personally oversaw (traditional noble income tending to come from landowning, with actually having a job being looked down upon). marlowe's wife wasn't noble or an arranged match, only the daughter of a prosperous cartographer. meredith told marlowe that he chose him because he was "humble" as opposed to the "entitled degenerates" she considered the rest of the nobility, but it's obvious this wasn't merely her respecting the value of hard work. she openly threatened him on instalment to the office she had chosen him for. instead of appointing a strong viscount who could restore the office, allowing the templars to step back, meredith had none of guylian's scruples, and appointed a weak one the templars would continue to control. "the knight-commander's influence was evident in almost every one of marlowe's decisions."

this turned into more of an essay on recent kirkwall history than an explanation, but hopefully some of it's helpful in fleshing out the landscape. as a further note as well as the nobility i would expect merchants, guilds, etc. to hold massive influence in a city built on trade. there's a reason for example that the dwarven merchants' guild is visibly extremely well-established in kirkwall with its own large area in hightown; not the most trustworthy source but varric also claims they have "fingers in all these pies" in the lowtown market and own every tavern in hightown. i very much doubt human merchants are letting the dwarves have all the fun so it can be reasonably assumed they hold similar influence

#marlowe dumar is one of my fav da2 npcs i think he's really compelling #kirkwall #marlowe dumar #perrin threnhold #knight-commander meredith #merchants guild #i wasnt totally familiar with how perrin and guylian's thing went down until i went through this just now #REALLY good stuff here for my points abt chantry and orlesian imperial power being interlinked. crunchy #also isn't guylian a brand of chocolates #long post

62 notes · View notes