#so that we could enter into s5 with some actual stakes | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

tommybaholland · 3 years

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Hi! I love you blog. May I have a one shot where Todoroki has a huge crush on the reader and has no clue what to do. So he goes to the flirt of 1A Denki. And can it be fluffy with a hint of suggestive. Thanks! 💓

setting up shoto

featuring: todoroki

was inspired by the first ep of s5 and really ran with this idea so i hope it’s okay! this turned out pretty long so get comfy and enjoy the read! x

todoroki had felt many intense emotions before, but none as intense as a romantic love. he didn’t know what he was feeling whenever he saw you. he felt as though it was just simple admiration, that you’re his friend and he is your friend. nothing more and nothing less. he wrote off the pang in his chest when he would suddenly see you as a surprise, like he felt when he watched you walk outside the grounds of the dorm building. however, he didn’t feel the same feeling when another voice appeared behind him.

“hey, todoroki! whatcha doing? oh, spying on y/n i see. planning to make a move?” kaminari observed.

“i wasn’t spying, i was just passing by. and what do you mean? i am moving.”

“no, dude, like, tell them you like them.”

“why would i have to tell them that? they’re already my friend.”

“no, like, more than friends.”

“i’m not sure that it’s like that.”

“so you don’t like y/n? you just stare at them all the time on purpose?”

“i don’t stare. and of course, i like them. i just told you that they’re my friend.”

kaminari looked at him in disbelief. “you can be really dense sometimes, you know that? look, man, i have a sense for these things and you like them way more than a friend.”

todoroki never took the time to let his feelings marinate and process them properly. he didn’t need people to tell him how to feel but it could be difficult to compartmentalize when many years of your life were spent in spite and anger. he considered that kaminari could be right about this. if someone else could play witness, he feels as though he can’t be wrong in liking you more than a friend.

“besides, i think if you tell them you like them, they can’t say no!”

“why?”

“because you’re like a babe magnet! and that’s coming from the guy with an electricity quirk.”

“why me?”

“i’m pretty sure most, if not all, of the girls secretly fawn over you. also, i’d be lying if kirishima and i hadn’t talked about who’s the best looking guy in the class, not including ourselves, of course.”

he had heard this once before, but he couldn’t really care less about who’s the ‘best-looking’ in their class. not to mention that todoroki had absolutely no idea why they would pick him. he could say he is strong and has a pretty good handle on his quirk but other than that he’s pretty regular and nothing out of the ordinary. the fact that he’s hearing this from no one other than kaminari makes it even less credible.

“look, man. i know you’ve been pining after them for three years now, ever since we all joined class A! i think it’s time you guys get together! and you came to just the right guy.”

“you came to me.”

“so you’ll let me help you?”

“uh, sure?”

“yes! okay, you won’t regret this. actually, you’re probably going to be thanking me so you better practice now.”

“...thank you?”

“okay, come by my room later tonight. by then, i’ll have a plan that is sure to work for you.”

todoroki didn’t really see the point of this and he almost didn’t go but he said he would let his friend help him. so that’s how he found himself out front of kaminari’s dorm room, not knowing what to expect.

he knocked politely on the door. there was some shuffling around and then he heard a voice through the door.

“password, please.”

“denki, it’s me.”

“i texted you the password.”

“yeah, but i don’t really want to say that--”

“just say what i texted you!”

“i don’t even know what it means.”

“it’s okay, you don’t have to know what it means! you just have to say it.”

todoroki sighed, preparing to humor his friend. “uh….big dong boys?”

“password accepted.” the door opened and as he entered the room, todoroki was greeted by another familiar face.

“hey, man!”

“hope you don’t mind that i invited kirishima as well. he’s good support,” kaminari explained.

“so todoroki,” kirishima began. “i heard about your crush on y/n.”

shoto liked these guys but sometimes he really didn’t know how to interact with them.

“uh, sure?”

“that’s awesome, dude! i’m sure they’ll love to go out with you. kaminari and i have been brainstorming for a bit and we think we’ve come up with something good. you wanna explain?”

todoroki looked over to denki who nodded. “thank you. alright, so you and y/n are at the same work study, right?”

“yeah. it’s me, them, and camie.”

“okay, good-- wait, CAMIE?! that chick from shiketsu?”

todoroki blinked in his pause. “yeah.”

“why didn’t you say anything? that girl is so hot. oh my god, dude, you have to help me after this--”

“alright, man, can you just keep going with the plan?” kirishima chimed. todoroki appreciated that at least one other person didn’t want to completely waste his time.

“right. right. so we were thinking that you and y/n could go on a mission together to ‘fight a villain’ or something dangerous like that.”

todoroki was perplexed by this seemingly simple solution. “but...we always go out on patrols together.”

“yeah, but this time, you guys will apprehend a villain and save people together and they’ll see how totally awesome and manly you are!” kirishima added.

“i still don’t see how that’s any different from what we do normally.”

“hmm, yeah, now that i think about it, there doesn’t seem to be a lot of stakes here.” kaminari thought out loud.

“hey, wait, remember that thing we read about earlier?”

“oh, you mean that quiz about which haikyuu boy would hate you? i already told you, man, atsumu would definitely have beef with you. no question.”

“no, not that!” kirishima refuted. “although i do agree. he’d be pretty jealous of me.”

todoroki was rethinking about trusting these two with something like this.

“but i’m talking about that thing we read about with the bridge?”

“oh, yeah...but can you explain it? i’m still a little lost by it,” kaminari admitted.

“okay, so earlier before you came in, we were doing some research on how to make someone more attracted to you and we found this study where they had people walk across a super tall bridge and rate photos of people. and they monitored their heart rate when they were on the bridge so they figured out that there’s, like, a connection between liking people and dangerous situations.”

todoroki grimaced while trying to work it out in his head. “so...you want to put y/n on a bridge and then they’ll...be attracted to me? i don’t get it.”

“no, i’m saying that there should be some kind of danger to them and then you save them or something--”

“and they’ll be like, ‘oh, todoroki, i love you! kiss me!’ mwah, mwah, mwah.”

kaminari made kissing noises at todoroki, very close to him, in fact.

“okay, i think i see now,” he replied, pushing kaminari out of his face. “so do we just wait for a villain to show up or?”

“no, that’s part of the ruse!” kaminari clarified. “don’t worry, dude. we got it all sorted out. you just have to be your icyhot heroic self!”

“but you’re not actually going to hurt them or anything, right?”

“no, because you’ll be there to help them!” kirishima jumped in again. “i think we all know you’re pretty capable of handling anything.”

“i’d at least like to know what i’m up against.”

“no, that’ll ruin the fun! then it’ll be more like a real fight,” kaminari justified.

it was true that most villain encounters are a surprise and you never really know what you’re getting yourself into as a hero. in fact, that’s the majority of being a hero entailed: being ready for anything. however, todoroki could not escape the feeling of something going awry, despite this being planned out. but he figured that it could be worth it to try.

“alright, let’s do it,” he agreed with the other two boys.

“yes! don’t you worry one bit, man. just leave it to me and kiri,” kaminari promised as kirishima nodded in agreement.

they told him that they would shoot for two days’ time, after they got the villain or whoever set-up and it was during a shift at the agency. however, not even a day had passed until word got around the dorm of what was going to happen.

“todoroki,” yaoyorozu caught his attention one day in the common area of the dorm, while some of the class was eating dinner together. “is what kirishima and kaminari been talking about true?”

suddenly, almost everyone’s eyes were on him. luckily, you weren’t in the room but this conversation seemed to take place at an unfortunate time.

“uh, what have you heard?”

“that you’re trying to woo y/n by saving them from a villain,” ashido interjected. “as if they couldn’t already save themselves!”

“i know they’re capable and strong, but kirishima and kaminari said it would help,” he explained, recalling what he could of their conversation from the night prior.

“that sounds like something those idiots would come up with,” jiro pointed out.

todoroki shrugged. “they said it was based on science.”

“yeah, hold on a second, jiro,” called out the electric boy himself, who entered the room with mineta. “it’s backed by science, so it has to be legit!”

jiro only rolled her eyes while uraraka tried to de-escalate. “it just sounds really dangerous, that’s all.”

“gosh, it’s like you guys have no faith in him. i mean, this is todoroki we’re talking about!” kaminari refuted. “try telling me you guys wouldn’t want to be saved by him! that’s right, you can’t.”

“listen, it’s not that your plan won’t work, kaminari,” yaoyorozu reasoned. “it’s just that he might want to try something more practical and...sensible.”

“yeah, like take them out on an actual date!” ashido exclaimed.

“but that’s so boring!”

“guys, why don’t we ask todoroki what he wants to do since he is the one involved,” yaoyorozu offered.

“okay, yeah. you have been pretty quiet. what do you think, todoroki?” kaminari questioned.

todoroki blinked a few times, thinking lightly on his options. “i’m not sure. i agreed to let them help me but--”

“BUT,” kaminari interrupted, getting in his face again.

todoroki pushed him out of the way before continuing. “yaoyorozu and the others do have a point.”

“yay! now you can let the girls help you out!” ashido declared.

“oh, yeah! we could set you and y/n up on a cute date,” uraraka chimed while the other girls nodded in agreement.

“okay.”

“what?! you’re just going to let them take over? ugh, fine. i guess it’ll be better this way. but don’t blame me if their plan gets completely messed up,” kaminari huffed.

“yeah, but imagine if it does work, dude,” mineta spoke up. “it’d be so hot to watch them kiss and feel each other up.”

everyone ignored that comment and continued to help form a new plan for todoroki. while he appreciated the concern and help from his friends, the girls did ask a lot of questions.

“what do you like about them?”

“should we tell them that you like them?”

“have you thought about tonguing them down yet? c’mon man, we need details!”

todoroki had half a mind to freeze the perverted grape. nevertheless, thoughts and feelings had crossed his mind many times. he had more time to think it through and at this point, his feelings cut through him deep. he tried to express everything he could about the subject at hand.

“well, i feel different around them. different than i do around everyone here. even though they’re my friend just as much as any of you, my body feels...weird around them. there’s this pang in my chest when i see them and even when i know i’m going to see them, i feel these tingles throughout my body. sometimes i find myself not being able to speak around them and it’s harder when they’re looking right at me. i don’t know what it is, but their eyes just make me lose my words. my face gets warm whenever they smile or laugh or even when they talk, i feel different. despite that i feel like this, i never want them to be too far from me because i kinda enjoy the feeling they give me. i hope that all makes sense.”

everyone just stared at him with expressions of awe. there was no other way he knew how to say it.

“oh em gee,” ashido finally broke the silence. “you sound like you’re in love, todoroki!”

“yeah, this is more serious than we thought,” kaminari added with everyone nodding in agreement.

love?

“are you sure? i thought i just had a lot of admiration for them,” he replied.

“while a lot of admiration is one thing, having a physical reaction to their presence seems to be another,” yaoyorozu analyzed. “you seem to like them a great deal and that could be something comparable to love.”

he had never considered the possibility of being in love with someone. sure, he had felt love from other people in his life like his mother, his siblings, and his friends. however, those were different kinds of love; familial and platonic. those were types that he was comfortable with or grew to be more comfortable.

romantic love, though, was completely beyond him. there was a time when he barely had any friends, let alone romantic prospects. but now he has many friends and the fact that out of all his closest friends that you were the one he has immense feelings for, must mean it’s love.

after replacing the fake villain ploy with a date idea, todoroki thought he might feel a little more at ease. but that was not the case.

he had been trained his entire life to be the strongest, greatest hero of the new generation. although part of that had been an ulterior motive to spite his father, todoroki felt more natural in situations where he could put all that work into practice. he wanted to be a hero so that’s what he was meant to do.

he never imagined he’d be sitting alone at a small side street restaurant waiting for you. the plan involved you meeting up with him for lunch after you finished getting a few extra work study hours at the agency. the girls urged him to ask you out and with a little more encouragement, it seemed to work out alright. although it was a little awkward, considering he decided to ask you right after you came from a shower.

“hey, y/n?”

“yes, todoroki?” you replied as you shifted your weight, standing in front of him in nothing but a towel, your hair damp and your shower kit held against your chest.

“uh,” he tried his hardest not to stare at the idle droplets of water still resting on your shoulders and chest. “do you like noodles?”

“well, i like pho. you know that,” you smirked in response.

“right. of course,” he shook his head, almost forgetting where he was going with this. “there’s this noodle bar place and it's kind of in a weird spot in town but they have really good soba and other types of noodles so...i was just wondering if you wanted to go or something? maybe tomorrow for lunch?”

“oh, um, yeah. i could do that. i have a small shift tomorrow at the agency. camie and i are doing some teamwork building type stuff but i can meet you there after that. is 4 too late? we should be done by then.”

even though he likes hearing your voice, he almost blacked out after you said, “yeah.” it wasn’t until he heard your voice again that he caught himself staring.

“todoroki?”

“oh, um, i’m sorry. what did you say?”

“it’s okay,” you let out a small laugh. “i asked you wanted to meet up at 4 after i’m done at the agency.”

“oh, of course. sounds perfect. i can text you the address.”

you nodded in response, turning slightly on your heels to leave. but he wanted a little more confirmation.

“so i’ll see you tomorrow?”

“yep! see you.”

he had been texting you ever since then but your messages had slowed down due to what he assumed was your start of your shift at the agency. he checked the group chat that kaminari had made called ‘setting up shoto’ which included everyone who became involved in this whole thing. kaminari said it was where he could tell them the ‘deets’ after you and him had met up. he didn’t really think he would need to tell them but even if he did, there was nothing to report. he did show up thirty minutes before your agreed meeting time, but he wanted to make sure you didn’t show up early somehow, therefore making him the late one. he felt like he’d rather be safe than sorry.

4pm came and went. soon fifteen, twenty, and now thirty minutes had gone by without a message from you or the others. he thought about texting you to ask if everything was alright, but knowing how strict the agency was with phone use, you probably wouldn’t answer right away. he figured everything was probably fine and that you were just running late. he couldn’t argue that there were several occasions in which you all had to stay a little later because things just happen sometimes.

although, he admitted that he wished that you would show up soon so the hard part would be over or he would stop feeling so ‘lovesick’ as ashido would say. suddenly, his phone vibrated loudly against the steel table, making him jump in his seat.

it was kaminari.

“hello?”

“DUDE!”

todoroki pulled the phone from his ear, wincing at his loud voice coming through the speaker.

“ow. that hurt my ear, you know.”

kaminari seemed to ignore him as he frantically continued. “todoroki, you gotta get downtown. there’s a freaking huge, scary villain here and y/n is--”

todoroki sighed. “denki, i thought we agreed that we weren’t doing that anymore. i’m sitting here waiting for them to eat with me but they seem to be running late.”

“that’s because they’re here fighting this thing!”

he heard loud background noise that was comparable to screaming.

“wait, are you serious?”

“yes, i’m serious! kirishima and i came out to make sure they were on their way to you but then we heard screaming-- wait, here i’ll show you. hang on.”

todoroki pulled the phone from his ear to watch the screen change from audio to video mode. kaminari’s face showed up for a second before flipping the camera to show the view of the street. they seemed to be hiding with several civilians behind a building as the camera creeped around the corner. todoroki watched and his eyes widened as he saw a huge, black, slimy-looking villain which was filling up the street and trapping people in its path. the quality wasn’t great but he could pick out what looked like you and camie trying to stop or distract it from causing any serious destruction. however, it seemed to only be provoking it more. todoroki stood up from his seat as he recognized where this was all happening.

“can you see him?”

“yeah. i--”

“you have to come help us, todoroki! i don’t have my support item and kirishima can’t land a good punch on him without getting stuck in this gross tar stuff. you have to hurry!”

“okay, i think i know where you are. just try to stall until i get there and get people to safety.”

he quickly hung up and focused on getting to the scene as soon as possible. he was still only a student, a hero-in-training. he’d probably get in serious trouble for taking matters into his own hands but he couldn’t sit back and watch his friends and you get hurt. he didn’t have his hero costume, support items, first-aid, nothing. he also didn’t have time to run back to campus to get his hero costume or any supplies. he’d have to make do with just his quirk alone.

he arrived at the scene from the alley where kaminari and kirishima were gathering civilians to safety into an entrance on one of the sides of the buildings. kaminari and kirishima exclaimed simultaneously at his presence.

“oh, thank god. you’re here!”

“alright, todoroki!”

todoroki tried to quickly assess the situation. “did you call the police or any pros?”

“we reported it and the police should be here soon,” explained kirishima. “there are also several pros but this thing is really putting up a fight. even fat gum couldn’t handle him!”

“looks like i’ll just have to freeze him--”

“wait, dude, no!” kaminari grabbed him. “that’s why this has been taking so long. he’s able to hold hostages easily!”

todoroki observed the scene in front of him. the sticky goo was everywhere and seemed to have no limit as to how far it could move. there were several civilians still trapped, along with you and camie at the center of it all.

“trust me, i thought about electrifying it all but that wouldn’t be fun for the people who are, you know, trapped.”

“we need to get everyone to safety before we do anything drastic!” kirishima reasoned.

todoroki kept quiet as he tried to think it through. there wasn’t going to be enough time to try to save everyone and stop it from taking anyone else.

“i think i have an idea but we’re going to have to be fast.”

maybe he couldn’t freeze all of it but his fire could be just as powerful as his ice. he started at the back, where the goo seemed to end and couldn’t move much further. he used his fire to put pressure back on it while freezing any parts that tried to attack him. kirishima and kaminari quickly collected the freed civilians and the pros that were there followed suit to help them out. camie was freed at the base of it with the rest of the hostages and helped to distract it from what todoroki was trying to accomplish.

“wow, shoto. it’s like you have a sense for danger. so cool!” she complimented brightly.

the thing was holding you up high, presumably to keep you from attacking, which made it more difficult to free you. todoroki decided it was time to freeze the rest of it so it could be stopped. he used ice that wouldn’t freeze you to death and stopped it so the ice wouldn’t completely cover you.

the goo stopped moving and seemed to be fully imobile. you were safe but todoroki still had to free you. he sliced through the ice with his left hand, detaching you from the whole. he had kirishima catch you, as you were still caught in ice and goo.

“i’m going to melt the ice away now,” he explained as he was back at your side again.

you nodded, too cold to speak, and he placed his left hand on top of the ice, melting it away quickly. unfortunately, the goo was still intact underneath and apparently could still move when detached from the source. it looked like it was expanding to cover your entire body, which made you begin to panic.

“todoroki! what’s happening?”

“i, i don’t know but just relax, okay? we’re gonna get you out of this.”

he looked around to see the top that was left exposed in the ice detached itself and moved over to where they were.

“todo-- mph”

“y/n!”

he looked down to see that the goo was slowly covering your face. he tried to pull it down but the sticky, thick substance was almost unmoveable. suddenly a deep, ominous voice appeared.

“release the rest of me or they die.”

todoroki gritted his teeth, an angry scowl on his face. “you have no room to make threats.”

“and you have no room to compromise. they’re going to suffocate if you don’t make a decision.”

he looked down to see that you stopped struggling, your eyes closing as the goo had almost covered your entire face.

“fine. take it and leave,” he replied, angrily throwing a fireball at the ice. steam flew into the air as the body was released.

“much obliged,” the villain snickered before snaking into one of the sewer drains.

the rest of the goo on you had moved up and off your limp body.

“y/n?”

you opened your eyes with a jolt, your brain fuzzy for a moment as you took in your surroundings. it looked like you were back at the dorm in your room. it was strange as you last remember seeing todoroki’s face.

“are you awake?”

you gasped at the sudden voice.

“todoroki!”

“sorry. i didn’t mean to scare you.”

you didn’t know what question you should ask first. “why-- where-- what happened?”

“well, you were unconscious so i brought you back here. i wanted to make sure you woke up so i waited,” he explained. “are you feeling alright?”

“um, yeah. i’m okay,” you replied as it was all coming back to you. it also explained why you were still in your hero costume.

“what time is it?”

“it’s late. almost 11. are you hungry?”

“yeah, a little-- wait, we were supposed to go to that place, right? you and i?”

he grinned at your sudden thought. “yes.”

“i’m sorry i missed it! i really wanted to go but didn’t think we’d have to take care of a villain.”

“it’s okay. it happens, right?”

“yeah, that’s true. do you want to order something and eat now? i know a place that delivers late and i’m pretty sure they have soba,” you offered.

he felt that pang in his heart when you grinned at him.

“yeah. i’d like that.”

he ordered the food and remained in your room as you went to wash up and change out of your costume. when the food arrived you simply ate and talked. he was grateful that you did most of the talking, as he was a bit sleepy and he was normally in bed by this time. nevertheless, he enjoys listening to what you have to say even if he’s a little out of it.

“by the way, how did you know about the villain?”

“what?” he asked incredulously.

“the villain, how did you know?”

“oh, um, well, i, um, kaminari told me.”

“oh, right. i remember him and kirishima being there too. what a coincidence, huh?”

“actually, it wasn’t,” he admitted, causing you to look confused.

“what do you mean?”

“they were there because, um, because…”

“because?”

“because i love you.”

your expression kept him talking. his heart was talking.

“i really admire you and kaminari and the others think that i’m in love. today was supposed to be part of a plan to get me to spend time with you. i don’t want you to blame yourself for what happened though because to be frank, i’m happy wherever you are. even sitting here while you were lying unconscious in bed. sorry if that’s weird. i practiced how i was going to tell you what i feel but it’s so complicated. now i am thinking that there’s only one way to say it. everyone was right. i’m in love.”

todoroki had felt free only once before now. when midoriya told him to claim his power as his own. claiming his love for you felt the exact same.

“i love you too.”

it was his turn to look shocked.

“y- you do?”

“yes. and i’m so glad you told me. i could never really gauge how you felt so i hid it for a long time and tried to enjoy just being as close as i already am with you.”

his head was a mess upon hearing this but in a good way. he didn’t think he’d come this far or have this result. he’d admit that it was a bit overwhelming.

“can i...can i hug you?” you asked, breaking the pregnant pause.

“oh, um,” he stuttered. he really, really wanted to hug you. he’s held you before but that was different. that was when you were unconscious. this time would involve awareness. something about the thought of touching you in a rather sensual way made him even more rattled.

“it’s okay if it’s too much right now. you can let me know when you’re ready.”

“i would like that. to hold you, i mean,” he answered.

“okay,” you grinned before slowly moving over to him.

you wrapped your arms around his shoulders to pull him against you. no matter how prepared he thought he could be for this, he wasn’t at all. he gasped softly at the impact of your body against him, part of his face slightly smooshing into your neck. his arms slowly came to wrap around your waist, his fingertips barely touching your back. soon enough you felt his arms tighten around you and his face nuzzling deeper into your neck. he gripped the back of your shirt lightly and the noises emitting from him sounded like he was crying.

“are...you okay, todoroki?” you questioned, concerned that you were making him uncomfortable. you pulled back slightly, your eyes meeting with glossy, familiar ones.

“yeah, i,” he chuckled to himself, wiping the stray tears. “i think i love you more than i thought.”

“me too,” you agreed.

“can you say my name?”

“todoroki.”

“no, my first name.”

“shoto.”

“i like that,” he mused, his eyes bright and cheeks red. his hands trailed up your back, pressing you back into him.

“and i love you.”

“i love you too, sho.”

he planned on never letting you go.

bonus:

“what a beautiful sight,” kaminari observed, watching the young couple hold hands as they walked in the distance.

“yeah, they’re so cute,” agreed kirishima.“i can’t believe it’s already been almost a month since they started dating.”

“yeah,” kaminari concurred, wiping a fake tear from his eye. “our little shoto todoroki is growing up so fast! i’m still gonna credit myself for that, even though he hasn’t thanked us yet.”

“well, y/n did almost die, dude. i don’t think he’d be too happy to hear that we were behind it,” kirishima point out.

“maybe so...but like i said, he had it all under control!”

“i still can’t believe you went through with that, just to get to talk to camie.”

“that was not the only reason! i did it for todoroki and had complete faith in him. it only proved how much more he loves them, really,” kaminari justified.

“yeah, i guess i can’t argue with that.”

“and besides, i guess karma has come. camie already left me on read.”

“aw, that sucks dude.”

“but thanks for helping me set everything up with rappa. how did you repay him for getting the asphalt guy?”

“oh, i put in a good word for him at the reform program at fat gum’s agency and he seems to really like it.”

“that’s so cool! you know, i always believed that most villains could turn around. it’s like-- oh my god, dude! camie just texted me!”

“well, what a coincidence. maybe now you should be the one thanking todoroki and y/n.”

“yeah, yeah, yeah. whatever.”

last one for tonight’s bnha night! requests still welcome..

#mha x reader #bnha x reader #todoroki x reader #todoroki fluff #todoroki one shot #request #tommybaholland

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addictedtostorytelling · 4 years

Note

I was reading Sara’s letter to Grissom again (I’m revisiting season 8), and I wanted to know if you could expand on this part: “No matter how hard I try to fight it off, I’m left with the feeling that … I have to go. I have no idea where I’m going, but I know I have to do this. If I don’t, I’m afraid I’ll self-destruct, and worse, you’ll be there to see it happen.” Mainly, how Grissom seeing her in season 5 could be different than seeing her at her state in season 8 (if she had stayed). Thanks!!

hey, anon!

so the short answer to your question is that withdrawing when she is in emotional pain is one of sara’s oldest modes of operation.

that m.o. certainly comes to bear as she struggles with depression during s4 and s5, but it does so to an even greater extent within the context of her relationship with grissom in the midst of her mental health crisis in s8 mostly due to the increased connection between them.

simply put: while sara certainly cares about how grissom might react during her s4/s5 mental health crisis, she cares even more during her s8 mental health crisis because, at that point, the stakes are higher.

as an engaged couple soon to be married, her and grissom’s lives are intertwined, and she fears how her (potentially prolonged or even lifelong) mental illness might adversely affect them as a couple and grissom as an individual.

whereas during her earlier struggles in 2004 and 2005, she is “just” grissom’s employee, in 2007, she is about to be his wife, and she doesn’t want to lock him in to a lifetime of misery. though they know each other better and are closer than ever before, she is still wary of letting him witness the full extremity of her crisis, realizing that his loyalty to her may (in this case) do him injury, as he will be unwilling to walk away from her, even if doing so is in his best interest.

ultimately, she doesn’t want him to become collateral damage in her meltdown, so she places physical distance between them in an attempt to keep him safe.

for a more in-depth discussion, i’ll first refer you to this post, which serves as a primer for everything i am about to say below.

more analysis if you click the “keep reading.”

_________

as mentioned in the post i linked above, one of sara’s oldest tendencies is to conceal her wounds when she’s hurting.

growing up in an abusive household with mentally ill parents, from a very young age, she learns not to trust others to solve her problems for her. not only does giving voice to her needs not necessarily result in her getting those needs filled, but there may even be times when, in the sidle household, asking for help actually causes more harm than good.

one can easily imagine how little sara posing a question or making a request of her parents at “the wrong moment” could lead to them reacting with spiraling, ranting, melting down, bickering with each other, or even resorting to violence.

that sara eventually comes to believe that she is better off suffering in silence and taking care of herself (no matter how severe her problems) is no surprise---and particularly when we consider that after being removed from her family home, she then enters the overburdened and under-resourced u.s. foster care system and is never subsequently adopted, meaning that she likely never gets the chance to “learn better” and be taken care of in the way that children need to be if they are to come to rely on others within the context of prosocial relationships.

so, again, no surprise that standoffish “i’ll deal with my own shit or die with it” behavior is what we see from sara in s4 and s5, when she is deep in a depression.

despite there being occasions when her friends and coworkers confront her about how unwell she seems (such as in episode 04x15 “early rollout,” when brass tries to talk to her about her being drunk in the workplace; or in episode 04x23 “bloodlines,” when grissom implores her to take some time off from work to stave off impending burnout), sara always flatly denies that there is anything wrong and refuses to take hold of the lifelines they offer, instead stubbornly insisting she is fine.

even back then, she is adamant about not wanting to involve anyone else in her problems or advertise the fact that she is unwell.

her reasons for feeling this way are multifarious.

on one count, she fears rejection---that if anyone knew how bad off she was, they would “cast her out,” either socially (by ostracizing her) or professionally (by suspending or firing her).

on another count, she worries that even if she were to tell someone about her troubles and that person did not reject her out of hand, they nevertheless still might not being able to help her or at least wouldn’t be able to deal with her in the long run, which could be disappointing, embarrassing, or even heartbreaking for her and might potentially damage her relationship with the person in question.

along those same lines, she worries that even if she solicited help, the help offered to her might be intolerable. for instance, what if the helper determined that she needed to go to therapy or take medication or do something else that she didn’t want to do and which could potentially negatively affect her career? what if she were given an ultimatum?

she also hates the idea of being pitied. as she talks about in episode 05x13 “nesting dolls,” she had enough of being “the girl whose father was stabbed to death” when she was a kid; she doesn’t want to repeat that experience as an adult. losing the respect of her coworkers would kill her. seeing the way they looked at her change would be something she couldn’t bear.

finally, she doesn’t want to make anyone else responsible for her, as, deep down, she feels that she is a lost cause and that to invite anyone else to care about her and her problems would be to set that person up for disappointment and loss.

so she remains silent, concealing her dissatisfaction with her career, drinking problem, heart-brokenness over grissom continually rejecting her, and depression until her cumulative unwellness finally manifests itself in some highly conspicuous way (such as first when she is pulled over for drunk driving in episode 04x23 “bloodlines” and later when ecklie suspends her for insubordination and threatens her with termination in episode 05x13 “nesting dolls”).

in both cases, she probably never would have chosen to draw attention to her suffering except that she is “caught” and someone takes notice---namely grissom.

of course, that grissom is the one who takes notice of and involves himself in those situations is at first a very nerve-racking thing for sara, as he is simultaneously the one person she is perhaps willing to let help her but also the one person whose judgment (and possible rejection) she fears the most.

she cares so much about what he thinks of her.

on the one hand, deep down, part of her always wanted him to be the one to finally break down her walls. while she has by now become accustomed to concealing her trauma, she has nevertheless been lonely and felt isolated in so doing. because grissom is the love of her life, she has longed to share with him in a way she has with no one else.

that’s why---when he shows up on her doorstep, asking all of the right questions, showing how fiercely he cares about her, and not accepting her reflexive attempts to dodge him in the same way that every other person in her whole life always has done---she finally relents and confesses to him the sad, awful story of her upbringing and the truth about her lingering issues.

but, then, on the other hand, being forthcoming with him still isn’t easy, precisely for the reason that she does fear driving him away.

rewatch that scene in episode 05x13 “nesting dolls,” right before she finally tells grissom her life story---all of the hedging and calculating on her part, how carefully she weighs the decision to reveal herself.

he is the only person she has ever met who has believed in and fought for her---keeping her on in the department, even when others wanted her gone; challenging her to become better and more skilled in her profession; praising the parts of her that others have traditionally considered her rough edges; always going to bat for her in their cases and showing up for her in her moments of duress---and she desperately desires that he remain on her side.

she hates to think that if he learns the truth about her upbringing and mental illness, his opinion of her will be damaged. she fears that he will be scared off once he realizes how flawed she is.

that’s why she never tells him the truth about her before he presses for it.

that’s why she only tells him the truth once he has proven beyond a doubt that he can be trusted with it.

she doesn’t want to lose him.

thankfully, all of her fears notwithstanding, when he finally learns her full story, grissom does not reject her, and neither does he give up on her, force her into doing anything that makes her uncomfortable, pity her, or change toward her in his esteem (and particularly not for the worse).

in fact, he does just about everything right in terms of proving that he cares about her unconditionally and that she can trust him to be there when she needs him, even when she’s at her lowest.

his attentiveness and love does her immeasurable good.

he is literally the first person in her whole life she has ever been able to count on to hang with her when the going gets rough.

but, unfortunately, sara retains one very deep-seated fear that grissom cannot overcome, no matter how many right steps he takes to earn her trust, namely: her fear that she is irreparably broken (and therefore patently unlovable), and her corollary sense that to make him responsible for her in her irreparable brokenness is unfair to him.

though she comes to believe in his loyalty to her very much, instead of taking comfort in the fact that he won’t forsake her no matter how bad things get, she cannot help but feel guilty about and anxious for him.

though for two years, life goes generally well for them as a couple, the question always lingers in the back of her mind: what happens if shit hits the fan again? will grissom end up saddled to her while she mentally implodes?

that underlying concern carries with her, all the way up to s8, when she faces fresh challenges to her mental health.

as i discuss in the post i linked at the start of this response,

remember: sara has had depression her whole life and has gone through various “ups and downs” over the years.

back in 2004-2005 (during the events of s4 and early s5), she is at a low point, feeling stalled in her career advancement, lonely without adequate personal connections, and bereft of the companionship of the man she is in love with and whom she knows to be in love with her, but who refuses to be with her (because, apparently, he is more afraid of ruining his career than he is motivated to spend his life with her).

but then she opens up to grissom (see episode 05x13 “nesting dolls”), and things get better for a while—for long enough and to such an extent that she even starts to believe that maybe everything will be okay from there on out.

she starts to find joy in her work again, first in serving as greg’s primary trainer and then once the team is reunited following the events of episode 05x25 “grave danger” pt. ii. her friendships at work deepen and become realer to her—even with catherine, with whom she had always experienced a certain degree of interpersonal friction before. most importantly, she commences a romantic relationship with grissom, who shows her unconditional love and support, just like she had always needed but never had previously.

so between 2006 and 2007, she is on an upswing. she feels happier than she even realized that she could, and she allows herself to start thinking that maybe the good times can last forever—

until she is abducted by the miniature killer and left for dead in the desert (see episode 07x24 “living doll”).

though she escapes the ordeal alive (see episode 08x01 “dead doll”), her depression and cptsd return with a vengeance thereafter.

she tries to tell herself to just snap out of it—she has made it out alive! she still has her job! she still has her friends! she still has grissom! and now she doesn’t even have to hide her relationship with him anymore!—but she can’t just snap out of it, and the fact that she can’t panics her, because if she can’t be happy now (with the dream career and the dream man and the found family and the support network and the high-end condo with a dog and 2.5 academic libraries’ worth of books inside), then how can she ever be?

is she destined to just feel shitty forever? is there no escaping her trauma?

this harrowing line of questioning leads to an even more harrowing question still:

what if she can’t deal?

she had been on the brink of a real breakdown before, back in ’04-’05, and had grissom not taken an interest in her mental state after she got pulled over for driving drunk, who knows where she might have ended up?

best case scenario: fired for coming into work loaded. worst case scenario: possibly in jail; possibly dead.

that was supposed to be her rock bottom.

but what if this time around she goes lower? what if she gets back to the place where she’s out-of-control again?

god knows grissom will try to save her—because he always tries to save the people he loves, especially when what they need saving from is themselves; because he’s always saved her before; because he’s her knight in shining armor; because that’s just the kind of person he is.

but maybe she can’t be saved.

maybe she’ll end up hurting him, not in the very literal way that her mother hurt her father, but in the sense that she’ll say or do something so horrible that it will break him. she has a tendency to act out when she’s hurting. (recall the cat lashing out with its claws when someone invades its recuperative hiding place.) she can make herself really repugnant sometimes. she wouldn’t necessarily intend to, but she might go for the “sucker punch to the feelings” on instinct. she might say something she couldn’t take back.

she doesn’t trust herself not to.

—but even if she were to keep herself in check, there’s also the possibility that she could hurt grissom in another way: by simply not being salvageable.

even if she never said or did anything actively horrible, what if he poured all of his love and devotion into fixing her, but she still didn’t get better? what if she never was able to be the person she was back in ’06-’07 again? she knows from personal experience how draining being a caretaker for someone with long-term debilitating mental illness can be and how much having to care for a loved one can alter the shape of your relationship with them, not necessarily for the better. she would hate to hold grissom back or deny him the kind of happiness he so fully deserves. she would hate to pull him down into the darkness with her. she remembers what happened between her mother and father, and the last thing she wants in the world is for her and grissom to go that same route.

so even beyond being conditioned to mask her pain due to her childhood experiences, sara also has this additional motivation to conceal how she’s feeling from grissom: namely, she doesn’t want him to feel guilty over her or to think that he has any kind of obligation to save her. she doesn’t want to make him party to her suffering.

sara wants so much for grissom to be happy and to experience life to the fullest, but as her mental health continues to deteriorate throughout during s8, she becomes increasingly concerned that “a happy, full life” and “life with her” are two conditions which are mutually exclusive.

throughout s8, she remains a functional depressive, able to hold down her job and continue in her daily activities, despite her inner turmoil, but the possibility is not lost on her that someday she may become dysfunctional---unable to get out of bed or care for herself or carry on a conversation---and so she wonders: what sort of fiancée or wife will she be for grissom then?

she doesn’t want him to have to give anything up for her---to forego career opportunities because he has to limit his work hours so he can stay home and care for his sick wife; or to become isolated and cut off from his support network of friends because she is never up for company and he is never willing to leave her side; or to have to make important life decisions (about having children or moving house or choosing when to retire) based on the chemical imbalances in her brain rather than what he truly wants in his heart.

she fears what might happen if he were to make any of those sacrifices---that he might feel deprived and grow to resent her.

as i explain in the above-linked post,

she also secretly fears that for as wonderful, patient, and loving as grissom is, even he has his limits, meaning that he might eventually become disgusted by how “broken” she is and reject her. (her father got to the point where her mother disgusted him, after all.) if grissom were to leave her, she doesn’t think she could survive. she wouldn’t necessarily blame him, of course. but she would wither.

if she ever saw that love in his eyes go out, she might actually die.

she doesn’t want to become a burden on him or his conscience, and neither does she want him to feel obligated to “save her,” particularly when doing so may not (from her perspective) even be possible.

after all, if his love could have cured her mental illness, it already would have done so.

that she is currently in the most stable, supportive, affirming, healthy relationship of her life and is still incredibly mentally ill is proof positive to her that she is beyond any kind of help.

of course, the truth that sara doesn’t recognize is that even love and healthy relationships don’t cure mental illness. while having someone who unconditionally supports you can be a great benefit as you pursue treatment (whether through therapy or medication or lifestyle changes or some combination of the above), being in love with someone isn’t a panacea. there are plenty of people who are in wonderful and fulfilling romantic relationships who are still depressed or have ptsd. she’s missing the mark by thinking that she “should be happier” just because she has grissom. it’s not a simple one to one transaction that way.

frankly, the idea that she is beyond any kind of help scares the hell out of her.

as her conversation with grissom in episode 05x13 “nesting dolls” reveals, she has long feared that being broken is a genetic trait---something she inherited from her abusive, alcoholic father and schizophrenic, alcoholic mother.

despite her best intentions, she worries that she is biologically destined to end up like they did---not necessarily in the sense of perpetuating their cycle of domestic abuse, which culminated in murder, but rather in the sense of “becoming trapped.”

by her late thirties, she has mostly outgrown the possibility of experiencing a schizophrenic break a la her mother, and she has done everything in her power to escape her father’s legacy of violence, but that’s not to say that she won’t repeat their same mistakes in other ways.

yet another reason why sara feels she cannot remain in vegas is because she fears replicating her parents’ relationship, where her caretaker father eventually grew to resent her mentally ill mother, and their relationship crumbled over time.

while she knows better than to think that grissom would ever become violent toward her in the same way her father did to her mother, she is nevertheless wary of “sucking grissom into her darkness” and making him stand by and watch (helplessly) as she spirals out of control, as she knows that he might very easily become repulsed by or frightened of her if he were to do so.

she doesn’t want to embarrass herself in front of him or put him off by acting “too crazy.” she is highly aware of her tendency to sometimes be “too much”---to speak out of turn, to make a scene, and to shame herself particularly when she feels backed into a corner.

when she was alone, these self-induced humiliations were her own cross to bear, and she lived with the consequences, however awful. but now that she and grissom are engaged and soon to married, he would be dragged into them, as well; just by virtue of being her partner, he would be party to every reckless, heedless, mortifying thing she did in the depths of her unwellness.

and in her mind, that’s no grounds for a relationship.

that’s not a real marriage.

that’s a hostage situation.

she doesn’t want grissom to have to deal with her the way her father had to deal with her mother.

she doesn’t want decades and decades of her being out of control and unable to truly partner with him, and him hanging on without hope for relief.

so that’s one of the biggest reasons why she leaves in s8: because she thinks she is saving grissom from getting stuck with her in an untenable holding pattern. in her backwards way, she truly believes she is being kinder to him in the long run by leaving him before he winds up trapped in a dead-end marriage to her, doomed to watch her flag and fail for years until someday the sweet release of death does them part.

for anyone keeping tabs at home, ironically, grissom has a very similar rationale for divorcing sara come s13.

it’s worth noting, based on the contents of her letter, that when she first leaves las vegas, sara seems to intend to cut off contact with grissom entirely, in addition to physically separating from him. though she and grissom are shown to be back in touch by as early as the events of episode 08x08 “you kill me,” which, within the universe of the show, take place just five days after the events of episode 08x07 “goodbye & good luck,” initially, she seems to have it in her mind that she is “setting him free” and that she may not speak to him again for a long time or even ever again. one imagines that she probably only relents after he calls her many times in a row, leaving frantic voicemails. but, in any case, her first impulse (to go dark) seems to suggest that she is trying to grant grissom some autonomy from her. she doesn’t want him tied up in what she is attempting to do. she’s trying to give him an independent life.

another reason why she leaves is because she is aware that grissom has a tendency to blame himself even for things that are not his fault, and she fears that he won’t be able to cope if she hits rock bottom while they are sharing their lives with each other.

even back in s4 and s5, she was cautious of letting her troubles become visible to grissom, as she sensed that he would take them personally and suffer for her suffering, but now that her condition is perhaps even more hopeless and she and grissom are in a relationship, she knows that his guilt over her would be so much the worse, and the last thing she wants is for him to self-flagellate due to her being “broken.”

she wants to spare him of seeing the worst of what she is going through and deny him fodder for his self-blame.

hence why she mentions in her letter that she is afraid of him seeing her “self-destruct.”

she has been dealing with mental illness long enough that by this point in her life she knows what her unhealthy coping mechanisms are: she doesn’t sleep; she drinks; she acts out at work; and she behaves recklessly, tempting death.

the show never really broaches the issue of whether or not she ever becomes actively suicidal, and i would argue that i don’t think she does, but, in any case, even if she doesn’t fantasize about ending her own life, what she does instead is show a blatant disregard for her own personal safety---drinking and driving even though she knows better than to do so, confronting armed suspects with no backup, and playing russian roulette with explosive devices in the name of securing evidence.

so while she may not have an active death wish, she also isn’t careful with herself.

she’s almost asking the universe to kick her ass.

and that kind of behavior isn’t pretty to live with.

grissom glimpsed her being careless with her own life from a distance in ‘04 and ‘05, and he was deeply concerned then---enough so that he confronted her on at least two different occasions (in episodes 04x23 “bloodlines” and 05x02 “down the drain”).

now that they’re together and he would actually be witnessing her spiral up close, she can imagine how torn up he would be---how much he would worry for her and go out of his mind trying to keep her from doing something stupid.

to date in s8, she has so far held off from engaging in her typical self-destructive behaviors, probably largely for his sake. but she doesn’t trust herself to keep cool forever. at some point, some case is going to trigger her, and she’s going to end up getting into a gunfight with a perp or doing 105 mph driving down a canyon road, and grissom is going to freak out.

he’s going to worry himself sick about her.

he’s going to blame himself for not being “enough” to fix her.

and she doesn’t want that outcome for him.

she doesn’t want that worry and heartache and grief and agony and uncertainty to be his.

so for all of these reasons, sara feels she has to go.

she has to leave grissom to “save him” from tying himself to her sinking ship and to give him a chance at a happy life without her;

she has to leave him because she doesn’t want to ruin his opinion of her or cause him to resent her (as her father did her mother);

she has to leave him so that he won’t be able to see how badly she is faring and (wrongly) blame himself for her suffering;

she has to leave him so that if worse comes to worst and, through her impetuous behavior, she gets herself shunned from their profession or in trouble with the law or hurt or killed or god knows what, he won’t have to see the event from up close or be made to reckon with the fallout.

and, of course, she ultimately has to leave him because she doesn’t know what else to do.

she is scared, and she has the poorest of poor coping skills. she never learned how to ask for help, and she never learned to trust herself to be vulnerable with anyone---even the man who loves her. for a while, she thought she was recovering, but now her mental illness is back with a vengeance, and she lives in dread of the possibility that she may never actually get better.

of course, she doesn’t want to lose grissom.

but at this point, she feels that losing him is inevitable.

either he stays with her in the long term, playing the part of the dutiful husband, and eventually becomes repulsed by her, no longer loving her but still feeling obligated to stay for fear of what she’ll do if he doesn’t,

at some point, his patience runs out, and he leaves, rejecting her because she disgusts and frightens him, and he doesn’t love her anymore,

she preempts these other two possibilities by leaving before he can witness the worst of her, breaking her heart and his, but sparing them even worse heartbreak in the future and at least preserving their good feelings and fond memories of each other, while also giving him a chance to pursue new happiness elsewhere.

it’s a lose-lose-lose situation, but at least one of those losses is one where sara can exert some kind of control and pick her own (and grissom’s) “poison,” so to speak.

so wherein lies the difference between how sara behaves in s4/s5 and how she behaves in s8?

well, in truth, the difference isn’t perhaps as vast as it might look like from afar.

while sara never actually leaves vegas during her 2004-2005 depressive episode, she does try to distance herself from grissom in other ways, all for the sake of sparing him from feeling responsible for her.

based on their conversation in episode 04x16 “getting off,” we can consider that sara doesn’t talk to grissom much throughout s4, and when she does talk to him, she only does so concerning work.

certainly, she never tells him that she overhears his confession to dr. lurie during the events of episode 04x12 “butterflied” (much less that what he confesses to dr. lurie breaks her heart into a thousand pieces). certainly, she doesn’t confide in him that she’s drinking.

she tries to keep up a façade of “fineness” and never give him any reason to question if she is unwell.

she may drink herself into unemployment or unto death or run herself into the ground, never sleeping and always working; she may put herself in the middle of one too many close calls and someday lose out for doing so; but dammit if she’ll ever lets grissom know that she’s hurting in the meanwhile.

she never wants to burden him that way.

and that m.o. just gets magnified after they are together.

all of those feelings from s4 and s5 of wanting to spare grissom of her drama (and preserve his high opinion of her, if possible) are dialed up to the max come s8, when the stakes are higher because they are in closer proximity and tied together in a more formal and emotionally intimate way.

sara views herself as a ticking bomb, and whereas before grissom was standing many yards away from her (clear of any potential explosion), now he is in the blast zone with the detonator strapped to his chest.

he’s opened himself to loving her. he’s sharing his life with her. at work, everyone knows about them, so everything she does reflects on him. there are a million ways she could hurt him, and she doesn’t want to inflict the most heinous of those ways on him.

so she tries to spare him in the only way she knows how to---which in this case requires her to take an even bigger and more literal step back from him than she did before.

just socially withdrawing isn’t going to be enough this time around.

she has to put physical distance between them.

she has to get the hell out of town so that when the bomb goes off, he won’t end up as collateral damage.

which brings us to grissom, who in both s4/s5 and s8, notices that something is incredibly off with sara but lacks the necessarily context to understand (or to do anything to help) until something catastrophic has happened.

while he respects sara’s decision to leave las vegas and tries his best to honor her wishes by not pursuing her (see episode 08x08 “you kill me”), i don’t think he ever fully understands why she couldn’t stay or at least why he couldn’t go with her if she had to leave.

to float some hypotheticals, if sara had stayed in vegas past episode 08x07 “goodbye & good luck” and had just kept suffering in silence, then, well---

she’s in a really bad place in s8, and i’m not certain for how long that center could hold before something were to break.

my guess is that eventually something would have tipped the scales.

maybe a meltdown at work.

maybe her threatening to quit.

if a crisis scenario such as those ones happened, then certainly grissom would have approached her about what was going on, and i think he would have tired to offer her help and support---though whether or not she were receptive would be entirely dependent on the circumstances of their conversation.

if she were to have talked through her thought process with him, he likely would have objected to the notion that his wife being mentally ill (even severely so) was something that he would be unwilling to face with her. he probably would have encouraged her to seek some sort of outside treatment, and then, at that point, if she had still wanted to go away from vegas, he would have offered to follow along so that she wouldn’t have to face down her ghosts all alone.

she likely would have argued that he was setting himself up for a lifetime of care-taking and said that she didn’t want to burden him or overtax his love.

then he probably would have responded with a line that, if not a direct quotation from euripides, at least approximated the sentiment of the anne carson translation,

or maybe just said, “in sickness and in health.”

and things wouldn’t have magically become easy from there, but i think they could have gone differently.

if sara had eventually relented and either agreed to stay with grissom in vegas or to permit him to leave vegas with her, then i’m sure there would have still been some very difficult days ahead for them, and i’m sure that seeing her so depressed and traumatized---no longer attempting to mask or conceal how poorly she was faring---would have gutted him and caused him to feel helpless, impotent, and heartsick in turns.

if she got therapy, there might have been things that came out during her sessions that were hard for her---and by extension him---to deal with. if she started taking medication or had to switch to day shift to fix her sleep schedule for the first time in years, then there would undoubtedly be some adjustments, many of them uncomfortable. trial and error stuff, you know?

maybe she would have had to switch professions.

maybe they would have had to make some major changes to the way they were living.

but the bottom line is i’m sure that grissom would have been willing to try, if sara had been willing to let him.

as things happen in canon, she just isn’t ready.

she doesn’t know how.

so she makes an executive decision for the both of them.

again, though her logic is skewed---what she fails to realize is that no amount of physical distance will keep gilbert arthur grissom from caring about what happens to her, and, in fact, not having regular access to her only causes him to himself spiral---her intentions are ultimately good.

noble, in a way.

she loves him, and she’s trying to do what’s best for him.

she just misjudges, is all.

thanks for the question! feel welcome to send another any time.

#csi #csi cbs #gsr #gil grissom #sara sidle #sara x grissom #otp: gsr #**#my meta #meta: csi #meta: sara #answered #anon #asks: csi #let's talk shop #season eight #csiverse

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aeruthien · 4 years

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Wonder... about your thoughts on Kleya? Klaus & Freya.

I love Kleya, especially in late s2 and early s3. After that, their relation became stagnant, and most of their interactions became plot related, so that’s a shame.

But they had a lot of great moments, which I have partly listed in this post about Freya, but I am happy to talk about them again.

Klaus was highly suspicious of Freya in s2, which was fair. In a way, Freya was a lot like Klaus before Hope entered the picture. Lost, afraid, trusting only him/herself. While Freya did want to join the family, her main goal was freeing herself of Dahlia, and she was willing to go very far to reach that goal. Klaus of course, recognizes this. He says as much to Elijah and Rebekah: 'simple, that's what I would do.'

But it also works the other way round. When Freya went into Klaus' mind, she saw his insecurities, and she immediately tapped on to them. That speech in the bar? "The voice that whispers, 'Why am I all alone?'" It works for both of them, and it hurts.

Interestingly, they were shaped very differently in response to being betrayed by their parents. Freya has painted an ideal picture of her other siblings in her mind, especially Finn and Elijah, and she holds on desperately to that image. Klaus, on the other hand, will always doubt the love his siblings have for him. He doesn't see his family as a strength, but also as a weakness.

While they were similar, they also didn’t truly consider the pain of the other, because they were to blinded by what happened to themselves. They both saw each other’s pain as an excuse. But in the moment when Klaus is daggered, and Freya tries to kill him with the white oak stake but he stops her just in time, seeing her crying? That’s when they both truly understood each other.

Klaus even added her into his 'grand plan' of having his Sisters look after his child (which thankfully was shut down by Rebekah really quickly. Your Sisters are not instant nursemaids Klaus.)

I also love their interactions in early s3. The scene with Bradd/Brody? Gold. Their plan to distract Lucien and her pink outfit? So great.

But also that little moment with the post-its shows their growth, and it was really sweet.

And then of course Freya is captured by Aurora, and Klaus goes in search for her, and later reassure her that she is part of the family, while family is part of the prophecy. They could have reused the Klaus thinks his family will kill him because of the prophecy storyline but they didn’t and I am very grateful for that.

But sadly after mid s3 their interactions are more plot related. And they didn't have a lot of scenes in s4, and I don't remember s5 enough to talk about their relationship, but Klaus walking her down the isle with Elijah was very fitting.

All of this said, they don't inspire me as much as the other relationships on the show. Like I mentioned, their relationship was pretty solid from mid-s3 onwards, and it didn't change that much afterwards. And while I love Freya, she is also the most one-dimensional of the Original siblings. Her character only started to evolve when she met Keelin, which was also the time where she didn't have many scenes with Klaus. Not to sound like a broken record, but s4 and s5? Yeah...

Now I really wish Keelin was introduced in s3. Then the tension between Freya falling in love with this wonderful werewolf woman and her desperately trying to stop the prophecy would hold far more weight than the stuff we got in s4.

Also, I found it strange that Freya spend so much time with Hope in s5, even more so than Hayley and Klaus, and Klaus never seemed to mind that much if I remember correctly, except that he of course wanted to be with Hope himself. At some point, Freya seemed more of a parent to Hope than her ACTUAL parents. And then Legacy comes around and Freya is nowhere to be seen, because they wanted to push the Sad Orphan Hope TM backstory, even though Kol, Marcel, Freya, Rebekah and Keelin are sitting just outside of frame with popcorn going, Wait Centaurs Exist? What The Hell?

So tl;dr: I love Kleya, when they actually have meaningful interactions like in s2-early s3, but they get overshadowed by the other relationships, like Freelin, Klarcel, Klebekah, Freylijah, Freya x Finn. So basically, my only complaint is that I wanted more of them, lol.

#the originals #kleya #klaus x freya #freya mikaelson #klaus mikaelson #thank you for the asks!#evanescentrainbow

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sol1056 · 6 years

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arcs & story pacing in vld

So I mentioned in an earlier post that I think there’s something else going on that has people kinda uneasy about where VLD is going. I’m still kinda noodling on this, but the short answer is that I think it has to do with the way stories are most commonly structured.

There’s no way to say from here whether the cause is the EPs are unaware and pushing the writers into different pacing, or just the entire VLD team throwing it all out the window. Or maybe just not doing a good job respecting the pattern.

If you’re not familiar with the core western storytelling arc, it goes roughly like this:

act I: ‘normal’, characters’ status quo

catalyst: turns normal world upside-down

act II: characters struggle/fail to keep up

mid-point: total loss, alternately, a false victory

act III: learn the lesson, get proactive, prepare

finale: defeat antagonist (tragedy: be defeated)

act IV: reset to normal, or enter new normal

(In a three-act structure, act two is twice as long as one and four, and contains #3, #4, and #5. I prefer four-act but it’s personal taste.)

For most American long-arc shows, this kind of arc will begin and end in a full season, with the denouement overlapping slightly with the ‘normal world’ that begins the next season. In a multi-season arc, it’s usually treated like the separate books of a series: each book has a complete arc, but when you look across them, you can see the full arc that links them together. (This is also why a middle-story in a trilogy will end either on a small victory with a backdrop of a larger defeat, or just feel generally unfinished somehow.)

Since S3/S4 was originally intended to be a complete season, I’ll treat it that way here. Behind the cut: breaking each season into act 1 + catalyst, act 2 + midpoint, act 3 + finale, and pacing within seasons, and the progress of an implied multi-season arc.

normal world + catalyst

S1E1, S2E1, and S3E1 each begin with the team divided in some way. In S1, half of them haven’t met before. S2, they’re all over the universe. S3, four are together, and the fifth is gone. That’s the ‘normal’ they start with.

The catalyst turns everything upside-down. The best catalysts appear to solve a problem, yet turn out to be a whole lot the characters didn’t bargain on.

In S1, Shiro’s return appears to promise resolution for Pidge’s and Keith’s searches -- which leads the team to find the Blue Lion, and the story kicks into gear. In S2, the catalyst is the healing pod putting Shiro back together -- but the result is memories of Ulaz, which drives most of S2. In S3, the catalyst is Black accepting Keith, which resolves the can’t-form-Voltron issue. Open question whether we’re supposed to see this as throwing the characters head-first into situations they never expected.

learning + midpoint

The first-half of the middle (act two) is where the characters will mess up the most. They’re doing their best to learn without much clue of what they face.

In S1, they’ve gotta learn to form Voltron, learn to fight, hold off Sendak while keeping the team together, all the way up to Lance getting his lion stolen. In S2, their failures stem mostly from Zarkon’s tracking system. In S3, they’re dealing with new roles (with Lotor as highlight for the team’s fails).

The midpoint -- and yes, it’s almost always right around the halfway-point -- is the first chance for the character(s) to apply what they’ve learned. There’s two ways this usually goes: either they get their asses handed to them outright, or their apparent victory... was actually defeat, or a draw at best. It’s winning the battle but destroying your mecha along with your right arm, or thinking you’re about to strike the final blow but you’re playing into the antagonist’s plans, etc.

By that measure, S1′s midpoint should be Return to the Balmera, but is probably Crystal Venom, where the team barely pulls off a victory against the AI but loses Sendak’s intel in the process. S2′s midpoint is Space Mall, specifically Shiro’s showdown with Zarkon; an incomplete victory, it demonstrates Shiro isn’t quite ready to take Zarkon on. S3′s midpoint is a hollow victory: they can’t hold their own against Lotor’s team, and they barely eke out destroying the teludav.

The midpoint’s purpose is to demonstrate the characters haven’t had a clue what they’re up against. The antagonist is bigger, nastier, more powerful; it outranks and outflanks them at every turn, so it’s time to get proactive.

learning better + finale

From that midpoint to the finale, we should see the characters learning from that lesson. In S1, that midpoint comes awfully late in the game, so we really only get a single episode of proactive (find the space base) before we hit the finale. In S2, from the midpoint, the team makes allies, comes up with a plan, and gets the pieces together; structurally, S2 is a pretty solid arc.

And there’s S3. We get a flashback ep, followed by the team breaking apart (Keith’s departure), then another tangent for Pidge, then we get humor but no forward movement other than noting Zarkon’s banished Lotor, then an ep that’s filler, and then... a two-parter finale. If you buy the argument that S4E4 is being needed to gin up the populaces, then that and Pidge’s galra finder in S4E3 are probably the only proactive points.

Okay, so using beat sheets is kinda formulaic, but putting the ‘fun and games’ segment before the midpoint makes sense; it’s when the characters don’t realize the full enormity of what they face. So things can be a bit more lighthearted -- yet in S3 every episode that might qualify as lighthearted happens after they get totally played by Lotor.

Which incidentally makes Keith and his ‘we need to focus on Lotor’ the only proactive element. We get humorous, light episodes, while Keith’s offscreen trying to actually, y’know, move this story forward. And then whammo, finale.

pacing in-season

One of the harder parts in long-form writing has got to be that slog called the middle. Sure, you’ve got the midpoint in there, but getting to that (and recovering from it) can feel like it’s taking forever. The characters need to ramp up, but not so fast it’s unbelievable, and not so slow they're standing still.

One way to look at S1 is to say it’s dominated by a massively long pre-midpoint stretch. Lots of learning to do, after all. But alternately, we could say from S1E2 to S1E9 is actually an entire act (sans midpoint) that’s a try/fail cycle. It helps that each new threat is either unfamiliar (the robeasts) or taking advantage of existing weaknesses (Sendak, Rolo/Nyma). Each victory comes at a cost, or is barely won. For the first season in a multi-season arc, this works.

For S2, it’s pretty solid: team comes together, we have catalyst, we get 3 episodes of the team reacting more than acting, until Shiro’s breakthrough with the Black Lion. And then it’s total proactive from there to the big showdown.

S3 starts off promising: team is broken, catalyst brings them together, and they face an unfamiliar antagonist, which requires ramping up (again). We get an interlude for Shiro’s return, and we hit the midpoint...

And then it just stops. The second half of the arc -- the place where everyone should be saying, “we know what we’re up against, we need to ramp up so we’re prepared” -- is gone. The issue with nested and braided arcs is one-half of the problem, but this pacing is a significant other-half.

In other words, a story’s pacing at start is casual, after the catalyst it gets jogging, and the midpoint marks a sprint to the finish line. But in S3, we get the catalyst, and we’re immediately into a sprint; the midpoint is more of a draw, and then it’s a casual stroll for five episodes, followed by a mad dash for the finish line. No wonder some viewers got whiplash.

pacing across seasons

Across seasons, the arc is subtler, but it should still be there. Pretty sure VLD was originally meant for six seasons, so going by the usual proportions, Act 1 would be S1, Act 2 would be S2-S3 with midpoint as the finale of S3; Act 3 would be S4-S5, and we’d get S6 for the final showdown plus a few episodes for denouement, wrap-up, return to normal (or new normal).

Which... doesn’t work too well.

Where’s the catalyst at the end of S1? The team being split up? The realization that they can’t win without someone helping them? The catalyst is supposed to lock the characters into a new normal, and set them on a path towards the conclusion. In terms of impact on the story, Shiro’s disappearance at the end of S2 is far more of a major catalyst, overall.

Which is kinda the longest establishing ‘normal’ I can think of, across all the series and stories I’ve seen/read. Plus, both S1′s semi-failed escape and S2′s losing-Shiro would make great hollow victories -- okay, mark those down as try/fail (and therefore Act 2, post-catalyst). Yet the spot where we’d expect a midpoint defeat is -- at the end of S3/S4 -- actually a victory?

Here’s the problem: with Shiro’s disappearance coming so late in the game, it’s hard to tell whether this is meant as the catalyst at the end of Act 1, or as part of the try/fail of Act 2. And the difference between those two, in terms of story-impact, is massive.

Let’s take a really simple story to compare. Girl meets boy: catalyst. Girl tries to woo boy: Act 2; make sure to insert lots of ‘this is true love’ here so we have stakes. Girl loses boy: midpoint heartbreak. Girl works hard to win boy back: Act 3. Girl wins boy: finale. Now, imagine a story where all that happens, but at the midpoint, the girl decides to find someone else, instead.

Which you could do; I’ve read a few who’ve tried. But I have yet to see one actually succeed, because it requires they spend the first half of the overall arc convincing me that this is twu wuv, it’s worth the character chasing this goal so completely. And then the writer is gonna turn around and effectively say, actually, that wasn’t love at all, but this other one? This is the real love, this is what the character will chase. Totally for serious this time.

That’s why the pacing matters, because in one, the first boy is just part of the normal world, and is left behind; in the other, chasing a second boy completely undercuts the first half of the story. VLD practically hammered home a kind of OTP: ‘chosen ones’ and ‘bonded with lions’ and ‘immediately simpatico’ and all the hallmarks of that Act 2 establishment, post-catalyst, of true love. And the breakup (girl loses boy, Shiro disappears) is the midpoint.

But if Shiro being gone is supposed to be the catalyst (in the overall arc) -- then S1/S2 is the world we’ve left behind; the real story is about adjusting to this now upside-down world.

For comparison, note that Gandalf disappears at roughly the midpoint of LotR. The mines of Moria is a major turning point, and the result (safe passage) comes at a huge cost. Gandalf’s loss is felt keenly, but he is not left behind; he is very much part of this upside-world of the story. That’s part of why his return feels inevitable, and why he plays a major role in the finale.

VLD’s messy pacing has created an ambiguity that’s slamming up against viewers’ intuition, based on so many other stories. We need to know: catalyst or midpoint, or else we have no idea where the story’s at, what to expect, even what to feel, and the result is this strange uneasiness.

#writing #story structure #voltron legendary defender #voltron meta #sol thinks about stuff

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aeruthien · 5 years

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Klaus’ redemption: part 3

As the title implies, this is a continuation of part 1 and part 2.

Now we finally get to the Point!

So how does subjective morality and the narrative of the Hero’s journey/ villain to hero relate to Klaus’ redemption?

In the Vampire Diaries, at least in s2 and s3, Klaus was very much a personification of 'evil'. The first time he is mentioned, it is immediately made clear that he is to be feared and that if he ever comes to Mystic Falls, it won't end well for the protagonists (or at least Elena). Even his own brother is trying to kill him!

And the show makes good on that promise: Klaus' first act is giving a horrible history class (that was in the seventies, Klaus, not the sixties! omg). No wait, I mean, his first bad act is killing one of the protagonists loved ones: Aunt Jenna (but no one cares about the werewolf chick whoops). He then proceeds with compelling Stefan, turns Tyler, etc. He is very self-centered and doesn't give a damn about anyone other than himself and his own plans, not even his own family. Also, he is without remorse. This basically continues until the Originals starts, although we do get to see why is is the way is is in some way through his interactions with Rebekah and Mikael.

Now, as I mentioned, the hero's journey is often kickstarted by the appearance of a mentor. In Klaus' case, this mentor is Elijah (although Cami has some mentor qualities too). He is the one who challenges Klaus to accept his ‘destiny’ (being a father) and keeps pushing him throughout the series.

Interestingly, though, Elijah was also a villain, or at least an antagonist on TVD. His motives for wanting Klaus to accept his destiny are entirely subjective. He doesn't care about the people in Mystic Falls, with the exception maybe being Elena. He cares about Klaus, and about Rebekah. In the first episode, he states that he wants Klaus to experience unconditional love and happiness. Klaus has to change because his actions are self-destructive, and drive those that love him away, not because Elijah thinks that he has necessarily done something morally wrong.(Illustration of this point: When Klaus tells Elijah that he killed Tyler's mom, Elijah is more like, ugh this is a nuisance because we got an angry puppy going after Hayley, instead of oh no, killing moms is morally bad!)

So, I think that from the start of Klaus' redemption arc, his redemption has never been about the greater good. It's not about atoning for past sins, at least not the ones we have experienced through the Mystic Falls gang so far. The sins Elijah wants Klaus to atone for is are those against his (extended) family.

I am not saying that this is a problem in any way. Actually, I think that this much more interesting than the 'greater good' perspective. I also believe that the show was aware of this and actively played with these two notions, at least up until s3 and arguably s4. By juxtaposing Finn's world view to Cami's, for example, they forced the audience to think about these things as well. (And then s5 happened).

Over the course of the first 3 series, I think Klaus does go through the steps I mentioned in part 2, although reluctantly. He kind of realizes that his actions are destructive and hurt the ones he loves, the one of the first most poignant scene being when he lets Rebekah go in s1. Then in s2 he starts to get the message, by trusting Kol and allowing him back into the fold, but then reverts back to old behaviour when pushed to extremes. He realizes the repercussions of his actions at the end of s2. His arc finally accumulates in the sacrifice he makes at the end of s3 to save his family. At this point, I think Klaus has redeemed himself in Elijah's, Rebekah's and Hayley’s eyes (and maybe Kol’s).

Now the final step in his growth should be that Klaus keeps up his intention of good will towards his family. He is ‘redeemed‘ for past sins, now let’s not add any others.

Here it becomes more muddy, because we enter s4 and s5 territory. In s4, I don’t think that Klaus changes that much. He is worried about Hope when she is in danger. He is worried about Elijah when he is in danger. He sacrifices himself along with his family for Hope in the end, looking properly teary eyed (ok to be honest here that moment wrecked me, I was already ripped to shreds due to Haylijah and then that happened and then Elijah lost his memories and like tearsss if anything this show can is capable of emotional punches, THEIR FACES urgh. Anyway, I digress).

Cami is gone, so his world view isn't challenged in any particular way. He doesn't kill Marcel, which is a step forward, but he already argued against sacrificing Davina in the end of s3, so that is consistent. Klaus in s4 suffers from the same problem as Hayley: his beliefs are not challenged, he is not asked to put any of his family members in danger to save Hope, and his character remains stagnant.

Then in s5, Klaus is shown to have gone 'back to his old ways' when he kills 'his enemies'. In the first scenes with Caroline, they seem to question if this is because he has gone crazy or not. However, he does genuinely say: "I'm no good without Elijah".

I don't think murdering all those people are his 'old' ways. In the s4 finale he gladly burns the followers of the Hollow alive, so he isn't opposed to mass murder. Once again, the thing he reverts back on is how he treats his family. Hope sees him kill people and he proceeds by shunning her for five years. Then, when amnesiLijah tells him to sod off, he nearly murders amnesiLijah's new girlfriend (remember Celeste anyone?). He reverts back to lashing out at the people who love him the most, because he is afraid to lose them, and in the progress loses them all over again.

Here, the show could have made this a final point of growth for Klaus. They raise the question: can he be good to his family without Elijah there to help him? Remember the death of the mentor in the Hero’s Journey (for example Obi-Wan, Gandalf)? In a certain way, that is what happens to Klaus here. His mentor is gone, so can he stand on his own two feet?

The answer the writers give is a big fat NOPE. Klaus refuses to help amnesiLijah in any way, and instead continuously blames him for Hayley's death. He risks the plagues wiping away NOLA to be with his daughter while he refused to talk to her for five years before. He is totally ready to let Antoinette die, as an eye-for-an-eye situation. And then Elijah is back (against his will!! and not that Klaus was any help), and Klaus has his older brother around to kick his ass into gear again, and his previous actions are not questioned at all, except for like two(?) scenes with Hope in which he kind of says sorry?

I already talked about Elijah's ending, and the shift in morality and toxic codependece and how Elijah is narratively blamed for the above situation instead of Klaus. But I do think that this part of the story hurts Klaus’ character as well. He is never allowed to grow beyond his dependency on Elijah. He isn't allowed to be a good father, or a semi-good person in his own right.

But then they do another 180 in the final episode, saying, look! Klaus is such a good guy now he sacrifices himself for his daughter and the greater good! To hammer in the point (or the stake ;) ), they even have Klaus ask Elijah explicitly: do you think me redeemed? Of course, Elijah says yes, but Elijah is kind of biased, isn't he? If Klaus had asked Vincent, he would have laughed in his face.

So to finally get to the point. Basically I call it Klaus’ non-redemption because of two things:

The first is that he is actually redeemed wrt his family, in their very biased and subjective eyes, but then they screw things up in s5, without ever resolving it.

The second is that they want us to believe he is redeemed in the more universal sense, but that is just not the case.

#the originals #to meta #klaus mikaelson #original family #redemption series #part 3

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