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torgawl · 21 days

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there's so many connections tying the moon, seelies and the jinn, but more concretely between the goddess of flowers and guizhong!!! by connections i mean they always appear associated with the moon and one another. as i was reading through the lore attempting to gather some of the moments these ties could be drawn, i ended up noticing other patterns that seemed to fit a similar narrative with other entitites as well. it quickly transformed into a post about the sun and moon symbolism in genshin. although i'm probably missing a lot of things, this is what i found while reading in-game information.

"records of the gallant"

this book is a compilation of stories and legends of many knight-errants in liyue, the second volume specifically is very obviously about guizhong. the association starts with the title “dust”, as she was the god of dust, and goes on to her description as “a maiden in a long indigo robe”, which matches perfectly her appearance. she is very often connected with the night time and the moon, and in this specific instance with seelies as well. seelies are described specifically as having had “beautiful physical forms and (…) great wisdom” in the past in the book “records of jueyun”. this book also talks about the seelie ancestor who once met a traveller from afar with whom they swore an oath of union in the presence of the three moon sisters before disaster struck and they were punished. both seelies and the moon are, throughout the game, always hand-in-hand with each other when it comes to symbolism and references and moments with guizhong like this one are no exception. i think it’s relevant to mention that at the end of the tale when this maiden disappears, the only thing left is a pile of dust mirroring guizhong’s “death”. dust in genshin can easily be tied to life (specifically as the base of all life) through albedo and rhinedottir who, consequently, are connected to khaenri’ah and the art of khemia – one of the factors behind the fall of the nation.

memory of dust

memory of dust is a stone dumbbell gifted to zhongli by guizhong and its description is about one of their conversations. guizhong standed among a field of glaze lilies, flower associated with her, as she talks about humans and compares them to dust.

this scene also includes an allusion to her death with guizhong dissolving into dust and with her, the glaze lilies disappearing.

glaze lilies are said to transform the memories of the land into its fragrance during florescence and legend has it that the flower will open at the sound of pure, beautiful music. the interesting thing about this flower is that it only blossoms during the night time, being this way indirectly connected with the moon. this excerpt or circumstances are very reminiscent to another character in this game, nabu malikata, also known as the goddess of flowers.

the goddess of flowers

the goddess of flowers is very likely to have been a survivor of the seelie race, if not the seelie ancestor herself. this was revealed through us by an aranara, arama, who said “there was once a survivor of that race seelie deep within the golden desert who was friends with queen aranyani and the ruler of valuka”. queen aranyani and the ruler of valuka are titles given to greater lord rukkedhevatta and king deshret, respectively, and, as we know, they were both really close to nabu malikata. the goddess of flowers was also said to have horns by nilou, whose head piece is inspired in this detail, and when traveler sees her in liloupar’s memories they describe her appearance as being "ineffably beautiful”, comparable to "the totality of her jinn". all these characteristics are also associated with seelies.

the “flower of paradise lost” artifact set tells a lot of the story of the goddess of flower. the flower piece tells the story of how she was cast aside by the heavens and her kinship was punished by being stripped away of their minds just like what happened to the seelies and their ancestor, confirming her identity.

she was said to wander for a long time, her wounds gushing streams that transformed into gardens of which blue water lilies sprouted. lilies those that originated jinn, a mystical race of elemental spirits considered, just like seelies, creatures of wisdom. the goddess of flowers was also said to make purple flowers bloom wherever she stopped, more specifically padisarahs. much like glaze lilies and guizhong, padisarahs also went extinct after the goddess of flowers’ death.

nilotpala lotus

the one other flower that resembles the glaze lilies is the nilotpala lotus. they also only bloom at night and in its description, we learn of their connection to the three moon sisters.

although the moon sisters perished after the same disaster that struck the seelie ancestor and the solar chariot (that created the chasm with its fall), the flowers turned to serve a new master yet the nilotpala lotus continues to remember those happy days of the past. something interesting regarding the name niloptala is that it refers to "blue lotus" or "blue lily" and represents one of the several "attributes" or "accessories" of a deity commonly seen depicted in hindu iconography, defined according to texts dealing with arts and crafts, known as shilpa shastras. i think it’s pretty logical to parallel these flowers, that grow in the forest wetlands in sumeru, to guizhong, someone very known for her mechanisms and who is deeply tied to blue lilies.

goddess of flowers and king deshret

a long time ago, the goddess of flowers, king deshret and greater lord rukkedhevata were all very close friends who looked over sumeru (any resemblance to the liyue consortium is pure coincidence, or not). “flower of paradise lost” continues to tell the story of the gof and contains the depiction of what happened that led to king deshret obtaining forbidden knowledge. through king deshret's aspirations, she saw the possibility to transcend the absurd shackles that governed this world (heavenly principles) and so she helped him in his goal, leading to her sacrifice and consequent death. she is said to have turned into dust in the “vourukasha's glow” artifact set, once again paralleling guizhong.

she once again refers the punishment casted upon the seelie race by the heavens, warning king deshret of the consequences his actions may have. the most interesting thing to me in this passage is the fact she is depicted as being “wreathed in darkness” when guiding deshret towards discovering “all there was to know about the skies and the abyss”; this and the fact she could foresee future events. it actually makes a lot of sense as nabu (who shares a name with her) is an ancient mesopotamian god of literacy, the rational arts, scribes, and wisdom (can you see the pattern?) whose name means "enlightened" or "prophet". she reminds me a lot of sibylla, who met king remus “below the abyssal depths”. knowledge beyond what the heavens allow seems to be connected multiple times to the abyss. this comparison with sibylla gains even more strength when, in the same artifact set, she tells deshret “you seek but to chain the winds. upon the tombstone of divinity shall humanity become the god of gods”. this was also remus’ goal, something he strived for so much that he was willing to ignore prophecies of disaster as long as he could attempt to break the chains of fate.

oasis garden's mourning

this ascencion material with the image of a flower in the center tells us the goddess of flowers and king deshret built ay-khanoum together, also known as “city of the moon maidens”, for the jinn. it’s this material that tells us padisarahs went extinct after the gof’s death and that these gem discs lost their original “glad purpose”, much like what happened to the padisarahs as depicted in the artifact set mentioned earlier. yet, there’s another version of this story told in “the shepherd and the magic bottle”. in this book (told by a jinn) it’s believed that king deshret learned about the jinn's story as well as the story of the “dismal moon and the driving morning star” (likely connected to the seelie ancestor, the three moon sisters and the solar chariot) after capturing them and, afterwards, built ay-khanoum as a gift to commemorate them; in return, the jinn built the entrance to the mausoleum of king deshret. according to liloupar, deshret had deceived the jinn to gain their servitude, telling them that the goddess of flowers had not perished but was instead locked in a deep slumber in the orchard of pairidaeza (created by deshret as a cemetery for the gof), and that he could awaken her with the jinn's aid. there’s an interesting detail in “the shepherd and the magic bottle” where the jinni says that at the end of the city of the moon maiden’s play “everything was reduced to dust”.

sun and moon dichotomy

guizhong’s color is, as referenced earlier, blue like the moon. whenever there’s a deity associated with the moon or the moon-sisters (gof and guizhong) there’s also one that symbolizes the sun (deshret and zhongli), usually coming to form a duo. this traces back all the way back to the solar and moon chariot, their gods and the disaster that led to their separation. it’s interesting to note the fall of the solar chariot, as i mentioned earlier, was what led to the creation of the chasm. although according to what we have access in game the text implies this entity to be different from zhongli, there’s actually a lot of things tying him or creating that parallel between him and the sun or the sun god (who might have been a shade of phanes). we can also consider traveler and paimon as another example of this constant duality within the story, as the traveler is almost literally the morning star and paimon is symbolically connected to the moon and seelies too.

“before sun and moon”, that tells the story of enkanomiya, includes an interesting parable.

this parable clearly references the sakura tree in inazuma’s story but it also intertwines with the heavens and the entities related to the primordial one. tokoyo ookami is istaroth and she’s referred to as the king’s priest. if the king is the primordial one then it makes sense the king’s gardener would be another of the shades. it’s hard to interpret some text when everything is told in metaphors and sometimes information isn’t actually that reliable but the concept of love here reminded me of the solar and moon chariot as well as the seelie ancestor and traveler from afar from the kingdom of light (descriptions in “records of jueyun” and “the pale princess and the six pygmies”). it’s also a bit impossible to read of a tree spirit heavily linked to time and planted by the heavens and not think about irminsul. this concept of gardener or protector of the tree is also somewhat recurrent and can be linked to sibylla as well, a prophetess.

the triquetra has a lot of different meanings but it’s usually connected with three goddesses, three sun positions or three moon phases. another item that has a triquetra on it is mora, that also can be used for alchemy and transmutations. we also know mora was, at least in the beginning, created from morax’s own body so it’s interesting this symbol appears in the coins. “earth is where the alchemy gets its name” and the art of khemia (alchemy from khaenri’ah) literally meaning “art of black earth” in chinese also seem to point to a connection between the terms.

khaenri’ah connections

guizhong had a particular interest in mechanics: the guizhong ballista was one of her handiworks, built with the aid of the adepti, and she apparently collected khaenri'ah technology such as ruin machines for research. as i mentioned before in regards to her (god of dust) “death”, dust can easily be connected with both the art of khemia and concepts such as birth and life. as albedo says: “soil and chalk, the universe and earth, pure dust and the birth of human life”.

in the hidden palace of guizang formula domain, the challenge called voyage to the sanguine sky has the description: "this is the realm of clouds. guizhong, its former ruler, acquired several ancient and evil artifacts during her research into mechanics. the adepti created this realm to contain them." curiously, the fight in this domain is against two ruin guards and a ruin hunter. guizhong was presumably researching khaenri'ahn technology before she died in the archon war. considering ruin guards didn't start wondering teyvat until after the cataclysm, we can propose a question of how exactly she got them. mentioning remus again, the golems he created with the souls of his people within the golden ichor are hinted to be what referenced khaenri’ah to create ruin machines. the link between having the want to defy the heavens and the fall of nations is something we’re already aware, but the way these nations or people connect with each other is also very consistent.

“perinheri”, a book very obviously about khaenri’ah during the crimson moon dynasty, was the talk of the town for multiple reasons but one of the surprises in it was the mention to deus auri (zhongli) by angelica. her nation was defeated by deus auri but she refused to submit to the new god. the orphanage in khaenri’ah – that ties itself with the house of the hearth – seems to have collected children that could classify as descenders, looking for some sort of potential. khaenri’ah anticipated the arrival of "beings who could transcend the gods" and this seems to relate to the concept presented to us during one of sumeru’s archon quests that the traveler’s twin isn’t a descender despite traveler being considered one. it also fits rene’s description of a descender being those with “wills that can rival an entire world”. i can’t make a connection between these concepts but zhongli’s mention is definitely intriguing.

deshret was depicted in genshin animations as an 8-pointed star and the speculated door to khaenri’ah, below sumeru, also has the same star on it. there's two stars that could be in association to this symbol, the star of lakshmi and the star of ishtar. in both cases, the 8-pointed star is associated with the goddess venus, who was worshipped as a symbol of fertility and love. the star can be seen as a representation of the eight phases of venus, which includes her appearances as the morning and evening star.

lakshmi ('she who leads to one's goal') is one of the principal goddesses in hinduism. she’s associated with maya (illusion) and along with parvati and saraswati she forms the tridevi of hindu goddesses. the tridevi are considered consorts and auxiliary deities to the more eminent masculine trimurti gods (brahma, shiva and vishnu). saraswati is the goddess of learning, arts, and music, and the consort of brahma, the creator; lakshmi is the goddess of fortune, fertility, light, and material and spiritual fulfillment, and consort of vishnu, the preserver; and parvati is the goddess of power, war, beauty, and love. she is the consort of shiva, the destroyer of evil.

lakshmi, as his consort and divine energy, accompanied vishnu whenever he descended on earth as an avatar; she's the supreme goddess in the sect and assists vishnu to create, protect, and transform the universe. lakshami is associated with the lotus flowers, in reference to spirit liberation, and her iconography also depicts her with four hands, representing the four aspects of human life important to hindu culture: dharma (moral values), kama (pleasure), artha (prosperity), and moksha (final liberation, humanity’s ultimate goal).

the tridevi are the manifestations of mahadevi, the supreme goddess and the primordial power behind the creation of the universe (creator and destroyer). all hindu gods and goddesses are considered to be manifestations of mahadevi and she’s known by many names, some translating to ‘she who is primordial matter’, ‘the great illusion’, ‘the life force in all beings’, ‘she who is supreme knowledge’, ‘she who transcends the universe’, and ‘she who destroys’. mahadevi's is also called ‘night of death’ and ‘she who is death’, reinforcing her destructive nature.

the star of ishtar or or star of inanna is usually used in association with the heavens and is specifically connected to the planet venus. the eight-pointed star is sometimes shown alongside the crescent moon, which was the symbol of sin (god of the moon) and the rayed solar disk, which was a symbol of shamash (god of the sun). the morning star may have been conceived as a male deity who presided over the arts of war and the evening star may have been conceived as a female deity who presided over the arts of love.

inanna (or ishtar) is an ancient goddess of love, war, and fertility and her primary title was "the queen of heaven". many of her myths involve her taking over the domains of other deities. she was believed to have been given the mes, which represented all positive and negative aspects of civilization, by enki, the god of wisdom. she apparently took over the eanna temple from the god of the sky, an. alongside her twin brother utu, inanna was the enforcer of divine justice. in the standard version of the epic of gilgamesh, ishtar asks gilgamesh to become her consort. when he disdainfully refuses, she unleashes the bull of heaven, resulting in the death of gilgamesh’s friend, who has a subsequent grapple with his own mortality. inanna's most famous myth is the story of her descent into and return from the ancient mesopotamian underworld, ruled by her older sister ereshkigal. after she reaches the throne room, the seven judges of the underworld (whose function was to decree the fates of humanity) deem her guilty and strike her dead. three days later, someone pleads with all the gods to bring inanna back. all of them refuse, except enki, who sends two beings to rescue inanna. they escort inanna out of the underworld but the guardians of the underworld drag her husband down there as replacement. he is eventually permitted to return to heaven for half the year, while his sister remains in the underworld for the other half, resulting in the cycle of the seasons.

as genshin is a bit of a cocktail when it comes to mythology and any historical references, it’s hard to say if the stories of ishtar or lakshami can even be a straightforward parallel to the higher beings in genshin. but i think if there’s one thing to take from everything so far is that there’s a very meaningful recurrence of trios or the number three (e.g. triquetra, three moon sisters, evil trinity), as well as the constant appearance of sun and moon elements together and dependent of one another (either in regards to their roles or their personal connections), the sun always being the masculine and the moon always being the feminine. we know there was a time in which these elements co-existed together in heaven, although they seem to be fated/doomed to separate from one another (the tragedies referenced in this post being an example of that).

enkanomiya

there are three very interesting achievements with interesting names you get in enkanomiya. one is kairos' constancy, and is the one you get from completing time trial challenges. kairos, as we already know, is one of istaroth’s (god of time) names. this name is based on the greek god kairos, the god of moments. the other two achievements, which also have greek names, are hesperus' boons, for opening chests, and phosphoros' guidance, for following seelies. if these are names of deities with close relations to phanes or at least celestia, as it would make sense because it would follow the pattern for istaroth, then would it be that out-of-pocket to think these might be the names of the other shades or of the moon sisters? phosphorus (bearer of light, often translated as lucifer) is the god of the planet venus in its appearance as the morning star. hesperus (son of dawn), on another hand, is the evening star. (planet venus in the evening). venus, as mentioned before, relates to the eight-pointed star and we know this shape is also used as the symbol of istaroth in enkanomiya (light realm sygil).

which, by the way, are used in hilichurl camps. the hilichurl camp in front of the thousand wind temple in mondstadt was already a hint that they worshiped istaroth but i think it’s safe to say that with certainty. it’s just curious that they don’t really recognize the archons, thinking of the elements as that which is deserving of worshiping, yet recognize (at least one of) a shade of phanes. the name istaroth is derived from astaroth, one of the three demons in the "evil trinity" alongside beelzebub and lucifer, connecting istaroth and the morning star once again.

i don't plan to drag this any longer as this is already way too long but to finish it off, and summarising these ideas: i'd say the one of the biggest patterns present in the game is the constant mention of entities in heaven seemingly converging into the duality of sun and moon, the moon sisters and the sun god. i haven't properly dwelled on this to come to a any sort of definite idea but there’s too many details creating a consistent pattern for my brain to disregard these ties as non-intentional. obviously, all these characters i have mentioned throughout the post aren’t going to all be the same handful of beings, and that’s not what i’m trying to say, but i do believe the repetition of the same themes has meaning. maybe the same way mahadevi manifested herself as three other feminine gods who worked together with male deities, the heavenly principles or phanes also created the shades as a manifestation of the sun and the moon. or maybe ishtar, alongside utu as enforcers of divine justice, taking over the god of the sky's (ishtar's father) temple could mirror the twins and their journey. maybe kairos, phosphorus and hesperus are indeed the moon sisters or even shades of the primordial one. maybe guizhong isn't meant to be more than a parallel to other entities, but maybe she was truly more than what was originally presented. i don't think it's impossible that even if she isn't one of the big figures - goddess of flowers or a moon sister - that she could have originated from one or be related to one (nabu malikata having seelies as her people and jinni or khvarena as her daughters). similarly to how venti is hinted to have originated from istaroth (as he was originally "a single thread of the thousand winds", istaroth's title). or perhaps not. regardless, it’s fun to notice that many theories in the fandom sort of intertwine together to make a fuller picture based on scattered information across the game. i'm not sure if i'll go more in-depth regarding some of these "theories" as there's still a lot to expand but i hope all of this made at least a little bit of sense. thank you for reading this far!

#the day we get to know more about guizhong i'll be so happy i didn't even go through the contradictions regarding her death that are so sus #anyways a random click in my brain while going through the genshin wiki led to this mess of a post #i write posts because i'm really forgetful and i want to put my ideas into the same place so i can come back to them. i don't even know if #these were obvious things or not but i thought it was interesting. maybe someone else will too.#still brainstorming about whatever is happening in the havens what's up with the primordial one and who the twins are #the answers are probably right under our noses and yet my single braincell is about to explode lol #guizhong #goddess of flowers #zhongli #deshret #genshin impact #genshin thoughts

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brookheimer · 1 year

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other speculation about tonight's episode for those interested (aka throwing shit at the wall, seeing what sticks, etc. the usual. also i'm bolding the TL;DR stuff bc it's long):

jimenez lead, ATN/roys [do something], then mencken wins. (talked about this here)

connor splits the vote for a bit but eventually drops and endorses mencken

mencken agrees to block the deal, jimenez refuses to work with the roys. i feel like this is pretty clear already but i think it'll be made explicit. the election will be not just ab ideological issues but the company, obviously, and anti-deal anti-ideology roman just sees mencken as their best option and doesn't give a shit about any political beliefs, shiv is the least anti-deal of the three which helps her because she wants jimenez anyways bc she's the Liberal Good one (sure, shiv, sure), and ken is trapped in between the two. basically, roman pro-mencken, shiv pro-jimenez, kendall unsure (jimenez will not block mattson deal/work with kendall and mencken will, but ken's performative liberalism makes it difficult for him to back mencken). i think ken will end up backing mencken anyways because he cares far more about his own success than america's, and i also think he would justify it to himself by saying, like, 'look if i'm in charge at waystar i can make actual change, i can't do that if i'm not CEO, so i gotta back the person who will make that happen so that way i can help society' or whatever it is he tells himself lmao

there's gotta be something with shiv pregnancy. the two biggest threads left dangling rn are shiv pregnancy and kendall-sanctioned logan smear campaign, and i'd be v surprised if the latter doesn't make some sort of appearance in the funeral episode, and idk if they'd try to work in both those threads in the same hour when so much else is going on. i also don't think they'd mention the pregnancy in ep4 and never again until the finale which meaaans something happening with it this episode. idk if it means reveal or not (because frankly it will not be shiv's fucking focus rn lmao) but it's gotta come up somehow

honest to god no fucking clue what the shocking thing will be. i don't think it'll be the election outcome itself (either mencken or jimenez, both expected) so i feel like it has to be in either the way it plays out or some sort of roy-related reveal. something i can see happening, maybe, is some sort of ATN fuckup -- they call it too early, they send out false information, some minions get the wrong order, idk -- that they have to scramble to either fix or lean into. like, their action decides the election, but it was a fuckup. it could work, i think, because it would show how unstable american 'democracy' is -- it rests in the hands of people like the roys and companies like waystar and news media like ATN, and one mistake could quite literally decide the future of america. that's how unstable things are. idk, maybe an anchor misreads a prompter and says something that's taken as an incitement to violence, maybe a phone call cuts out and orders are misheard then followed, just something that shows how terrifyingly flimsy our entire political process actually is. again this is literally ALL JUST SPECULATION i have no fucking clue how things will play out i'm just trying to figure out how things could maybe go

i think the election will be a backdrop for other huge developments in roy family life but not to the extent that con's wedding was -- i think there are probably big things that happen that are unrelated to the election, but i do think it's going to be election focused, mostly just bc i would be kind of disappointed if it wasn't lmao. but seriously though succession is such a political show (even when it's not explicitly about politics) that i'd be very very surprised if they eschewed it entirely to focus on family matters, especially bc so much of succession is about the interrelation of familial abuse, capitalism, and political fascism. this episode is the perfect fucking storm for them all to come together.

rome/ken fight from the teaser possibly this ep? just looks like they're wearing the same clothes/in the same room based on the episode trailer. not sure though

again really don't know what the Shock will be. i can see a nailbiter but a Shocking Twist? we shall see...

#will update and post other thoughts if i have them but for now i need to go work on my finals #lmao #i know this is long and excessive but i've gotten like five asks today asking for it so this is for yall #TLDR: mencken win after rough start and ATN intervention. connor eventually endorses mencken. rome and (eventually) ken back mencken bc he #will block the mattson deal. shiv refuses to back mencken on moral principles (and also she's the least set on bombing the deal so there's #less of a conundrum for her). probably shiv pregnancy returns -- either a reveal (in the context of abortion bans under mencken? tbh idk #that feels a lil on the nose for me) or a mention of/reference to it. overall ATN/roys/etc are the deciding factor not votes/america #MAYBE: ATN has a fuckup that snowballs into deciding the election somehow. miscommunication or smth that has drastic consequences #could see that being a nailbiter/shocking thing/etc. that's just pure guessing though irdk #THOSE ARE MY PREDICTIONS FOR ALL WHO HAVE ASKED. IT'S 2:21 PM 5/14/23. I WILL CHECK BACK TONIGHT #really this is so ridiculous bc u can't predict succession but it's fun speculating and now it's become a Thing i do so. here we are #succession #succession spoilers #(except as always not really)#long post #succession speculation #ok im starting a tag for this lol

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