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doufudanshi · 2 months

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ON GHOSTS AND DEMONS: Wei Wuxian's "demonic" cultivation?

There are a few big misconceptions I have repeatedly seen in English-speaking fandom about things that are fundamental to the story of MDZS. One of them is this—

Wei Wuxian is not a demonic cultivator.

To prove this, let's take a deep dive into the original Chinese text of MDZS.

(Adapted from my original gdoc posted on Twitter on May 27, 2022. All translations my own unless otherwise stated.)

Demon vs. ghost

Let's start from the very basics. In addition to orthodox cultivation using spiritual energy and a golden core, there are two other forms of cultivation that are mentioned in the novel:

魔道 (mó dào), or “demon cultivation/path.”

鬼道 (guǐ dào), or “ghost cultivation/path.”

To be clear, 魔 mo "demons" and 鬼 gui "ghosts" (and thus their respective cultivation/paths) are not interchangeable because of the in-universe worldbuilding within MDZS. Using the characters in the term 妖魔鬼怪 "monsters," MXTX created four distinct categories of beings, each of which has a strict definition in the novel. From chapter 4 (jjwxc ch 13):

妖者非人之活物所化; 魔者生人所化; 鬼者死者所化; 怪者非人之死物所化。 Yāo (妖) are transformed from non-human living beings; mó (魔) are transformed from living people; guǐ (鬼) are transformed from the deceased; guài (怪) are transformed from non-human dead beings.

And of course, WWX hoards all the ghost-type pokemon monsters at the Phoenix Mountain tournament, and he only exerts control over corpses, spirits, and the like (aka people who have already died). (As opposed to Xue Yang, who appears to have been actively trying to make 魔 "demons" out of living people with those "living corpses" of his, perhaps.) (And, ironically, in order to avoid showing necromancy / zombies on screen, CQL technically does show WWX practicing demon cultivation because everyone is "supposedly alive" even when they're corpses? Which is, funnily enough, far worse morally in the MDZS universe, lol.)

So, intuitively at least, we know that WWX must be practicing ghost cultivation—now let's look at some concrete examples from the book.

Running the numbers

1) 魔道 (mó dào) means “demon cultivation.” As such, it must use living humans.

魔道 appears one (1) time in the novel.

Yes, once. The only time it appears is in the term 魔道祖师 modao zushi, or the namesake of the novel, in chapter 2. This is a title the general public has given him through rumors:

魏无羡好歹也被人叫了这么多年无上邪尊啦、魔道祖师啦之类的称号，这种一看就知道不是什么好东西的阵法，他自然了如指掌。 Wei Wuxian wasn’t called titles like “The Evil Overlord,” “The Founder of Demon Cultivation,” and so on over the years by others for nothing—he knew these sorts of obviously shady formations like the back of his hand.

2) 鬼道 (guǐ dào) means “ghost cultivation.” As such, it must use dead humans.

鬼道 appears 12 times in the novel.

Here is the first instance that 鬼道 appears, which I believe is the first time Wei Wuxian's method of cultivation is properly introduced. From chapter 3 (jjwxc ch 8):

蓝忘机 […] 对魏无羡修鬼道一事极不认可。 Lan Wangji […] had never approved of the fact that Wei Wuxian practiced ghost cultivation.

Here's another quote from chapter 15 (jjwxc ch 71) for funsies:

蓝忘机看着他，似乎一眼就看出他只是随口敷衍，吸了一口气，道：“魏婴。” Lan Wangji looked at him as if he saw through his half-hearted bluff. He took in a breath, then said, “Wei Ying.” 他执拗地道：“鬼道损身，损心性。” He stubbornly continued, “Ghost cultivation harms one’s body, and harms one’s nature.”

3) 邪魔歪道 (xiemowaidao) means heretical path/immoral methods/evil practices/underhanded means/etc—e.g., lying, cheating, stealing, bribery, and so on.

It appears ~24 times in the novel.

I mention this last term because it is often used to refer to Wei Wuxian's cultivation, but as a pejorative. Every instance of 邪魔歪道 is said by or to quote someone looking down upon Wei Wuxian’s cultivation (Jin Zixun, Jin Ling, etc.) and referring to it derogatorily, whereas every instance of 鬼道 guidao/ghost dao is said by someone discussing it neutrally and/or factually (Lan Jingyi, Lan Wangji, Wei Wuxian himself, random cultivators at discussion conferences, the narration, etc.). Here is a pertinent example with Jin Ling (derogatory) and Lan Jingyi (neutral) in chapter 9 (jjwxc ch 43):

金凌怒道：“是在谈论薛洋，我说的不对吗？薛洋干了什么？他是个禽兽不如的人渣，魏婴比他更让人恶心！什么叫‘不能一概而论’？这种邪魔歪道留在世上就是祸害，就是该统统都杀光，死光，灭绝！” “We are discussing Xue Yang,” Jin Ling said angrily. “Am I wrong? What did Xue Yang do? He’s scum that’s lower than a beast, and Wei Ying is even more disgusting than him! What do you mean ‘don’t make sweeping generalizations?’ As long as those practicing this kind of demoniac, heretical path are alive, they’ll continue to bring disaster. We should slaughter all of them, kill all of them, annihilate them once and for all!” 温宁动了动，魏无羡摆手示意他静止。只听蓝景仪也加入了，嚷道：“你发这么大火干什么？思追又没说魏无羡不该杀，他只是说修鬼道的也不一定全都是薛洋这种人，你有必要乱摔东西吗？那个我还没吃呢……” Wen Ning shuffled around. Wei Wuxian gestured at him to stay still, only to hear Lan Jingyi also cut in loudly, “Why are you getting so riled up? It’s not like Sizhui said Wei Wuxian shouldn’t have been killed. All he said was that people who practice ghost cultivation aren’t necessarily all like Xue Yang. Do you have to go around breaking things? I didn’t even get to eat any of that yet…”

Tl;dr—Wei Wuxian does not 修魔道 practice demon cultivation. When Wei Wuxian’s craft is discussed in a neutral and factual manner, it is referred to as 鬼道 ghost dao.

In fact, Wei Wuxian’s imitators are also referred to explicitly as 鬼道修士 ghost cultivators.

魏无羡早就听说过，这些年来江澄到处抓疑似夺舍重生的鬼道修士，把这些人通通押回莲花坞严刑拷打。 Wei Wuxian had heard a while back that over the past few years, Jiang Cheng had gone around snatching any ghost cultivator suspected of being possessed or reborn, detaining them in Lotus Pier to interrogate them using torture.

So why the confusion?

Of course, there is the matter of the novel's title, which I will get into in a second. But the real issue is a matter of translation.

The idea that WWX uses "demonic cultivation" is a misconception in English-speaking fandom due to issues with the translation of terminology. Of note, EXR actually did translate 鬼道 guidao as "ghostly path" most of the time, though there were at least 3 instances of "demonic" and 1 instance of "dark," especially regarding the first few.

However, this misconception was perpetuated (and arguably worsened) by 7S's official translation, which not only mistranslated additional terms as "demonic cultivation/path" (at least in book 1), but also consistently mistranslated every instance of 鬼道 as "demonic cultivation/path."

So why is this book called 魔道祖师, commonly translated as "Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation?"

One possibility is one posed in Chinese-language meta online, which often cites that WWX himself is a sort of 魔 demon. While this may be true—after all, he can hear the voices of the dead—it doesn't quite explain the fact that the title sets him up to be the 祖师 or "founder."

My take is that this novel is very much concerned with hearsay vs. truth. This is one of the many monikers WWX is given by the public, who collectively view him as evil. (Also of note is that the non-cultivator public is not aware of all the nuances that cultivators learn re: distinctions between the 妖魔鬼怪 monsters.) In the quote from earlier, note that the first title we're given is actually 无上邪尊 “The Evil Overlord,” then 魔道祖师 "The Founder of Demon Cultivation." Like, what can that be other than MXTX telling us, "please take both of these with a HUGE grain of salt, lol."

(And not only the title, but the very first line—"魏无羡死了。" / "Wei Wuxian is dead."—is a lie.)

I think the title is genius, honestly. It intentionally makes readers come into the novel with preconceived notions that Wei Wuxian practices 魔道 demon cultivation and evil techniques—just like the public in the novel. What better way to tell a story warning about the dangers of how easy it is to fall for misinformation and jump to incorrect conclusions?

(Though, in our case, perhaps it worked a little too well.)

#魔道祖师 #mdzs #mdzs meta #mdzs translation #wei wuxian #wwx #demonic cultivation #ghost cultivation #mine #doufudanshi translation #crossposted from twitter #(sort of)

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bloomeng · 24 days

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One thing I will never understand is why most mdzs fans are so pressed about Jin Guangyao. I understand disliking him if you’re a huge fan of the canon characters he’s hurt, but so many of the people who hate him are only here for wangxian. And like wtf did he do to wangxian? To me, his biggest offense is killing Nie Mingjue who was literally already dying. But if you see any discussion online from people who don’t like him it’s only about how he married his sister. And it drives me insane.

Lemme spell it out (I say arguing with the wall)

1) When he is introduced to Qin Su he has no idea and accepts the engagement because it's expected of him to marry.

2) His father is a horrible abusive man.

3) Jin Guangyao sleeps with her once for the sake of propriety before he knows.

4) He finds out right before the wedding meaning that calling it off would be suspicious.

5) If he called out his father the best that would happen is him getting thrown out and losing everything he’s worked towards and the worst is his father killing him and Qin Su and even maybe her mother.

6) He never touches her again.

Whether MXTX meant it or not Meng Yao’s struggle is a foil to Wei Wuxian’s. This idea of severe classism controlling who gets to survive and prosper in this world is integral to the story. Wei Wuxian is lucky because he happened to be brought into a sect due to connections he had before his birth. Meng Yao isn’t so lucky. His mother being a sex worker is crucial to his whole story. I don’t say this lightly but because of his mother Meng Yao suffers from this anti-sexwork rhetoric. And I don’t say this lightly but a lot of his struggles in life are rooted in the misogyny towards his mother. So when people pick on him for marrying his sister— something he was forced into— and mock him for it… it feels tone-deaf. It’s similar to the way real-life misogyny effects the way people hate Madame Yu, but that’s a whole other can of worms.

To be clear it is not misogynistic to dislike Jin Guangyao that would be a crazy thing to say. It’s the way people go about it. When factors of his birth, his mother, and classism, in general, get mixed in, is when the conversation goes sour.

Jin Guangyao’s actions are not excused because his life was hard but neither are Wei Wuxian’s. People get so wrapped up in the POV of the novel they forget it’s biased. If the story were from Jin Guangyao’s POV I bet people would not loathe him to this extent. Which is so frustrating. Blah Blah Blah reading comprehension buzzword.

#txt #mdzs #jin guangyao #mdzs jgy #jgy

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esoteric-oracle · 9 months

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//long rambles ahead!

I think what really lingers with me about MDZS is that it's not a novel with a cathartic ending at all. It's a bittersweet story that leaves you slightly hollow. Yes, it's a beautiful and epic romance. It's a piece of social commentary interwoven with a love story and murder mystery. It's a cautionary tale. But it is also very much a tragedy. It's a story about being too late, second chances, and moving on.

By the time the truth of everything JGY and JGS did comes to light, it's 13 years too late. Everything that mattered has already happened. Jiang Yanli and Jin Zixuan are long dead. Jin Ling is still an orphan. Wen Ning is dead, and sometime in the future, his death will be permanent. Wen Qing was burned to death at the stake for no fault of her own. Nie Mingjue has already spent ten years in a no-doubt agonizing state of un-death, and Lan Xichen will have to bear the guilt of loving both Nie Mingjue and Jin Guangyao, and by doing so, forsaking them both. Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng's once-close bond is irrevocably broken, and the woman who sowed the seeds of resentment when they were still children will never face the consequences of her vitriol.

People sometimes say MXTX was too hard on the side characters, and only gave the Wangxian a happy ending, but what stuck with me after finishing the story is how… sad things are. Yes, Wangxian finally get the happy ending they've deserved for nearly 20 years - but at the same time, it's not a happy ending where the people who've wronged them get the consequences they deserve.

Wei Wuxian will spend the rest of his life haunted by guilt and loss, over what happened to Jiang Yanli and Jin Zixuan, over the loss of the Wen remnants. The rest of his years won't even be lived in the body his parents gave him.

Lan Wangji will spend the rest of his years wondering if he'd chosen to stand with Wei Wuxian when it mattered - would his son have had to grow up without his birth family?

Nie Huaisang is left wondering if his brother had been a little less trusting and had never taken Meng Yao in as a Nie deputy, would his brother have died a less wretched death? Would he have been forced to stoop to ruthless machinations and manipulations to seek some semblance of justice?

Wen Ning will have to live with the knowledge that if he'd been a little less kind, if he'd let Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng die that fateful day - his family would still be alive. The Wens would've won the war; Wen Qing might've even succeeded Wen Ruohan.

No one really gets the ending they deserve. MDZS isn't a story where good people get happy endings, and bad people get their dues. Sure, Jin Guangyao's crimes are revealed and he faces the consequences of his actions. But what about the people who stood by and made him into a monster? If anything, the side characters and antagonists who survive get better than they deserve. The real villain of MDZS - society - will never face retribution. Those cultivators who always believed in their own bigotry and righteousness over and over again, will never face justice.

Do you think those cultivators and the public will ever feel any regret for the innocent people they condemned to death in their own prejudice and blind self-righteousness? Do you think the people who gathered at Nightless City to call for Wei Wuxian's death considered for one second that he was the biggest reason they won the war? When the cultivators who sacked the Wen settlement at the Burial Mounds threw the bodies of the Wens into the blood pool, do you think that was a sign of shame?

Do you think Jiang Cheng will ever regret leading a siege on a small settlement of innocent farmers? Do you think he's haunted by condemning to death the same people whom he owes his life to?

Do you think those people like Yao-zongzhu will ever feel an ounce of remorse for so easily believing rumours and hearsay, and spreading speculation and vitriol about innocent people?

Do you think that unnamed cultivator out there will ever lose a single minute of sleep over smashing in Wen Popo's head?

In the years that follow, Wen Ning will have apologized a hundred times for lives he did not take, crimes he did not commit, because of the name he bears. People, both in-universe, and even readers, will condemn him for actions he could not help, for doing the right thing. But did Jiang Cheng ever apologize for killing his family? Did the Jins ever apologize for their horrific treatment of people in the labour camps?

People will continue to demand that Wei Wuxian apologize for causing the deaths of their friends and family. But how is Wei Wuxian meant to do that? No one ever apologized to him for taking his family away. No one ever apologized for condemning the Wen Remnants to death for crimes they took no part in. The Wens were his family too.

There's so much potential for bitterness and corruption in MDZS. Instead of saving everyone, Wei Wuxian could've stood aside and let the people who tried to kill him die. MDZS could've been a story of succumbing to hatred and grief, but it wasn't. MXTX could've gone on and on about how society wronged the protagonist, but she didn't. The narrative is one of forgiveness and moving beyond past grievances. The story chose to close the story on a positive note. I truly love that aspect of MDZS, where MXTX leaves just enough room for hope and love at the end.

A-Yuan will finally get his closure about the family he lost as a toddler. Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian get their happy ending together after being separated by nearly two decades by war, miscommunication, cruelty, and death.

Wei Wuxian will never regret protecting survivors of an attempted genocide, because it was the right thing to do.

And Wen Ning will still stand in the way and take a fatal blow meant for Jin Ling, despite everything the Jins and Jiang Cheng did to the people he loved.

Because they chose love. Characters like Wei Wuxian and Wen Ning and Lan Wangji have the chance to move on and live a happier life because when they could've succumbed to hurt and fury and resentment, they chose to be kind and do the right thing. Wangxian get their happy ending because they learn to recognize the toxicity of the cultivation society's self-cannibalizing prejudice, and chose to pursue righteousness above personal benefit.

MDZS isn't a story about good people getting good things. Just look at what happened to Xiao Xingchen. There's really nothing satisfying or cathartic about everyone's fates at all. There's no promise about society facing the consequences of their mob mentality or Wangxian actually changing the world together. Even in TGCF, for all its makings of a love story, we get the promise of societal change once Jun Wu is deposed.

It has all the makings to be a tragedy or tale of vengeance of epic proportions - but instead, it's a love story. It's a story about making the best of what you've got, and staying true to yourself and your morals, even if that's sometimes a bitter pill to swallow. It's a story where everything that could go wrong went wrong, but the characters still managed to fight their way to a better ending by choosing kindness. At its core, MDZS is a testament to choosing compassion over cruelty no matter how tragic and hopeless life gets, no matter how long the journey gets. Even though the happy ending is more personal and only applies to the specific characters, even though we don't actually get the promise of their society becoming a better place - we still have the hope that Wei Wuxian's second chance brings. The hope that sometimes, no matter how cruel the world is, some people who deserve it still get their happy endings. That's what makes MDZS such a memorable work of art. That's why it stays with you.

#mdzs #wei wuxian #lan wangji #nie huaisang #jiang cheng #wen ning #musings #Can you tell I really love the narratives MDZS took?#tragedies #mdzs thoughts

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web-novel-polls · 3 months

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MXTX Side Characters Tournament

[Image ID - two images. The first is a cropped image of Shang Qinghua from the cover of the English Scum Villain novel. He has brown hair tied up in a loose bun. He is wearing a light blue-gray ribbon in his hair the same color as his robes as he glances over his shoulder at the viewer.

The second image is a drawn image of Jiang Cheng from MDZS looking at the viewer with apparent disgust or contempt. He has long dark hair tied up by a silver hairpiece with bangs framing his face. His eyes are a pale blue. /End ID]

Shang Qinghua / Airplane from SVSSS

Submission: He's a sidekick and he's so sidelined that despite creating the universe he's treated as an afterthought - doubly a side character! But also? So relateable. He would absolutely have been on tumblr in his first life, he gets so excited about his blorbo who treats him terribly (until they finally get a happy ending in the extras - also! he has to wait for the extras to get his happy ending! very side-character of him). He holds the fascinating position of being mostly irrelevant to the story and yet without him the themes would totally fail. He deserves a win on something for once, okay?

Jiang Cheng from MDZS

Submission 1: Extremely traumatized yet also somehow the most normal and functional by the end. Huge bitch but I (and at least one of the other characters) think he deserves to be even worse after everything he's been through

Submission 2: Simultaneously badass and the most cringefail man. Extremely funny and stylish but still manages to be very uncool. Cries a lot. Also he's lost a lot of tumblr polls—let's give him another shot! We definitely love him more than his dad did!

Submission 3: He's got mommy issues AND daddy issues. He loves his sister and his shige so much. He's traumatised and incredibly competent. He rebuilt his whole sect! He's an asshole (affectionate). He's purple! He's got the coolest weapon ever conceived. I'm so worried about his blood pressure basically all the time.

["Anti-Propaganda" that attacks other characters is NOT allowed. Please only give reasons to vote FOR a character.]

#shang qinghua #svsss #jiang cheng #mdzs #mxtx #polls #mxtx side characters tournament #mxtx side characters grand finals #queue

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twilightarc-gm · 2 months

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hello :D can you tell me why you like chengxian?

A Non-Comprehensive Guide to Twi's Love of ChengXian

Yes I spent time making this edit. I love them and I'm not an artist so sue me.

Short Answer: I love these two self-sacrificing assholes and their aesthetics and I think they should kiss and get a happy ending for once. If MXTX doesn't want to do it, I'll write it instead! 😤

Long Answer: Click the Read More

"As long as we both live in this world, we'll meet sooner or later." -- Vol1 Chap6

👏 MDZS literally doesn't happen without Yunmeng Shuangjie, it doesn't happen without the huge sense of debt and love and envy and pride and duty that comprises everything about the relationship between Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng. They must meet because their stories are so wrapped up in each other that where one ends and the other begins is a blurred line at best.

MXTX put in so much work to separate these two for the happily ever after she wanted and if you think about it too much you start to wonder if the Wei Wuxian we grew to love with this story, that says this kind of line, is ever going to be really happy without Jiang Cheng in his life.

💗It's not incest, but the boys wish it was. I am half-joking about this, but also absolutely serious. The vague labels on their relationship is a very big part of the point!

They are very much the Shixiong/shidi(mei) xianxia/wuxia romance trope. The talented and wonderful shixiong. The shidi(mei) that adores their shixiong but can't be honest about it. Childhood friends to sweethearts. MXTX uses this trope and subverts it by not making it endgame or letting the story just end with the tragedy of the First Siege.

She uses the power of this trope to feed into everything in and around the secret of the Golden Core Transfer. It ends up affecting the entire cultivation world as the greatest token of love, of devotion, of sacrifice, of consequence, of dubious consent, of the crux of the very story itself... which is just incredibly powerful.

And the rest of MDZS flows from that.

He had always thought Jiang Cheng would be the one standing with him, and Lan Wangji against him. He'd never imagined that reality would be the complete opposite.

This is literally errata from vol1 official pg 262 and I swear it wasn't put in the first time because it feeds ChengXian too much. You say that Wei Wuxian thought Jiang Cheng would always be by his side? He couldn't imagine a world where that wasn't true?? That now he's in a reality where it's the opposite??? Omg???? Like this is the sum of the ChengXian tragedy right here because MXTX made a reality where they couldn't be together! 💔😭

Like LOOK!

“When you become the family head, I’ll be your subordinate. We’ll be just like our fathers. Who cares about the Twin Jades of Lan? Our Yunmeng has Twin Heroes! So—just shut up. Who said you’re not worthy of being family head? No one’s allowed to say that, not even you. Say it and you’re asking to get beat.” --Vol3 Chap12

You see for me it's about the strain between love and duty and all the points where those two cross.

My actual favorite romance trope is king/lionheart - lord/devoted - leader/subordinate - patron/agent - master/servant - 知己 (zhiji)

this relationship of knowing is one that is worth dying for

“So when Wei-gongzi returned to seek us out, my jiejie was reluctant to even attempt the procedure, at first. She warned him that writing an essay was one thing, but actually doing it was quite another. She wasn’t even confident she’d have a fifty percent chance of success.

“But Wei-gongzi kept pestering her. He said fifty percent was fine; the chances of success and failure were equal. Even if it didn’t work out and his core was wasted, he wasn’t worried about his future—but that wasn’t the case for Sect Leader Jiang. He was too competitive, too focused on what he stood to gain and lose in this aspect, since cultivation was his life. And if Sect Leader Jiang could only ever be an ordinary, mediocre person, his life would be over.” --Vol4 Chap19

Wei Wuxian was willing to risk his life on a 50% chance if it meant Jiang Cheng would Live. Yes yes Wei Wuxian's patent assholery here about how Jiang Cheng is so competitive etc, classic fooling himself. The point is that Jiang Cheng wouldn't be Jiang Cheng anymore and Wei Wuxian would rather die than experience that. Would rather cut himself apart than fail to protect his shidi.

Speaking of failures...

Perhaps there was this:

“I didn’t get caught by the Wen Clan because I insisted on returning to Lotus Pier to retrieve my parents’ bodies.

“When you went to buy rations in that small town during our escape, a group of Wen cultivators caught up to us.

“I noticed them early and left the spot where I’d been sitting to hide in a corner of the street. I didn’t get caught, but they were patrolling, and they would have surely bumped into you while you were getting us food.

“So I ran out and lured them away.” --Vol5 Chap22

Jiang Cheng never wanted Wei Wuxian to die, let alone die for him. He breaks down at the shrine coming to terms with what he will ultimately think of as his fault. We know this because when he feels at fault he doesn't speak of his good intentions. So, he distracts the Wen-dogs from Wei Wuxian > Gets caught and survives, broken > as far as he knows he's miraculously healed > only to find out that Wei Wuxian was taken by the Wen-dogs anyway 3 months later > Jiang Cheng never speaks of his failures, so will never say how lost his core in the first place > a war and 13 years later he finds out that not only did he fail to protect Wei Wuxian from Wen-dogs, but now also knows unequivocally that Wei Wuxian's descent into heretic cultivation was his fault... again.

As tears streamed down his face, he hissed through gritted teeth, “…Why…why didn’t you tell me?!”

And he begs to know why Wei Wuxian would do this!

“Consider it a repayment of my debt to the Jiangs,” Wei Wuxian added.

Jiang Cheng raised his head and looked at him with bloodshot eyes. “…To my father, my mother, my sister?” he asked in a hoarse voice.

Not him. Wei Wuxian won't admit it's for Jiang Cheng--the shidi he meant to protect as a good shixiong, the master he was meant to support, the heir and symbol of the clan and sect he loved so much he would readily lose a hand to protect.

The way Wei Wuxian tortures Wen Zhuliu by leaving him whole and standing while his charge Wen Chao is torn up bit by bit... The delicious parallels of -- you made me a failure, now see how you like it, watch the one you are meant to protect be torn asunder.

...

Hold on I need a moment...

...

How about some cute stuff?

Wei Wuxian waved him off and then hooked his arm around Jiang Cheng’s shoulders. -- Vol1 Chap4

He put his arm around Jiang Cheng’s shoulders and dragged him over to the veranda railings to sit down.

[...]

Jiang Cheng was quiet, but he seemed to have calmed down a little. Wei Wuxian put an arm around his shoulders again. --Vol3 Chap12

💗Wei Wuxian is always all over the person/s he likes and loves. Jiang Yanli might have been the first to carry Wei Wuxian but Jiang Cheng's were the first shoulders he chose to hang off of. Jiang Cheng stands so straight because he is used to bearing Wei Wuxian's weight! (Also he's of the gentry, and you can make arguments about a rod in places where the sun doesn't shine, but Wei Wuxian benefits regardless!)

Among all the kicks and shoves and rough housing and sparring, they are just so tactile.

Gif from this post.

… Jiang Cheng, walk slower, you’re gonna throw me off.”

Not only did Jiang Cheng want to throw Wei Wuxian off, but he practically wanted to bash his head into the ground to create a human crater. “So fussy even though I’m carrying you!”

“I didn’t tell you to carry me,” Wei Wuxian reasoned.

Jiang Cheng flew into a rage. “If I didn’t carry you, I think you’d hang out at their ancestral hall all day, rolling around on the floor. I can’t afford this embarrassment! Lan Wangji took fifty more strikes than you, but he walked away on his own, and you’re not embarrassed, pretending to be an invalid? I don’t want to carry you anymore. Get the hell off!”

“No, I’m wounded,” Wei Wuxian said. --Vol1 Chap4

💜 Yes I am bringing back this quote from my Jiang Cheng appreciation post.

Hnng, I am trying to be more concise, but like one of the things I also enjoy in romance is how two imperfect people choose to be together and that choice that they make is the gold and solder that fits the pieces together into art. Sure MDZS didn't want to go there even though that's where it started, but to me it will only ever be the story of Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian.

Honestly even Yi City arc is YMSJ | CX to me.

Song Lan = Jiang Cheng

Xiao Xingchen = Wei Wuxian

Baoshan Sanren is involved

Eyes = Golden Core

Baixue Temple = Yunmeng Jiang

GUILT

RUNNING AWAY

Xue Yang = Yuan Qi (Resentment) Modao/Guidao

CORRUPTION

A-Qing = lwj being obsessed with WWX and fighting his use of guidao like a-Qing is distrustful of XY and XXC being friends with him.

XXC kills SL = WWX kills JC (figuratively, JYL's death destroyed the last of the JC from their childhood and all the trust he had in WWX (you cannot tell me that WWX doesn't feel like he caused JYL's death (he couldn't control the corpse that hurt her, he didn't sense the sword coming for him and she had to protect him)))

XXC's suicide and shattered soul is thus my grounds for headcanon to what actually happened to WWX at the First Siege, just sayin'

...

Anyway that's a bunch of canon stuff how about the realm of fanfiction/art?

Meme Format Reasons Twi is unwell about ChengXian:

From this post (yes that's my same edit)

Art Commissioned (So Far, more on the way and some I can't share yet) for ChengXian:

Happy ChengXian with Wei Wuxian in Purple by @robinade

Supportive ChengXian in pretty clothes! by Sugar_Shoal

Some more points for consideration:

💗 Point 1: They can't be normal about each other, due in large part by the people who raised them being unable to be normal about them either.

💗 Point 2: Their opposing ideologies, duties, and priorities make for the best drama, but in a better narrative, would balance each other.

💗 Point 3: Martial sibling romance ➡ tragedy! They fought together! Thought the future would be them together always! Then everything in the narrative tears it apart and all they're left with are the ashes of their choices and the lies that buried them.

💗 Point 4: Every AU where they end up happy instead!! 😭 I can't wait for @twinclownsoflotuspiers next CX Happy Ending event! Thankfully there is also @omiixcx coming up this APR 21st-27th! 👀 Yes that was a promo and prod.

💜 Point 5: ChengXian Pros = Zongzhu-shidi getting to love and protect his shixiong fully and truly without restraint.

🖤 Point 6: XianCheng Pros = Overprotective shixiong merciless in his affections for his Zongzhu-shidi.

💗 Point 7: Ship them for tropes based on miscommunication, acts of service, there was only one bed, boundary issues, genderfuckery, soul bound by choice, bickering, bantering, finishing each other's sentences, married-divorced-never-were, childhood shenanigans, cutting oneself on the other and denying the blood ever was...

...

I am not even getting into the monster/monster-maker aspect, am I? They are both at the same time!

JC makes WWX a monster by being the recipient of the golden core and believing WWX has control of guidao so encourages its use.

WWX makes JC a monster by lying to him until their relationship is broken irrevocably at the Bloodbath and years after JC is known for hunting demonic cultivators.

If you want to get really dark with it, there's also the cannibalistic aspect. WWX becomes a part of JC with the transfer. JC unwittingly consumes WWX and his fortune. The golden core is in the lower dantian, the belly, behind and below the navel. The symbology..! XianCheng is really good for the more gothic themes of the ship.

Let's be real, the vibes are straight up Wuthering Heights in multiple facets. MXTX recently admitted to that novel was one she read so insert conspiracy theory red string board meme here!

...

I spend a lot of time readdressing the themes introduced with the YMSJ dynamic and are exacerbated by the golden core transfer and the way Wei Wuxian handles and fails to handle that situation. I like how destructive they are about each other. There's a lot of potential there to create something together as well, but they were never given the chance.

Ideally, after the Jiang parents were gone and not influencing them anymore, or if they aged up enough to just stand on their own—and Wei Wuxian has his cultivation intact... Well in that scenario they could have easily stayed the Twin Prides/Heroes of Yunmeng and they would have been so happy being in the home they both loved and making the most of their lives one step at a time and arguing the whole way.

...

That's what fanfiction is for! 💜💗🖤

Hey, you made it to the end! I hope that was entertaining at least there is so much going on with this ship sometimes my brain just goes brrrr about it, y'know? Take care! Happy CX thoughts to you!

#chengxian #jiang cheng #wei wuxian #twi posts

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least-carpet · 4 months

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If you want, 10, 11, 12, 13! (mdzs)

Hello!

I answered 10 here, but here are the other ones!

11. What is your most sinful headcanon?

It occurs to me that I don't really know what this means. Like, sexiest? Most violent? Are thoughts sinful?

Once again, I bow to Ms. MXTX. I can't compete. But I guess, off the top of my head, I would say that Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng's relationship was Weird. I can accept many expressions of that Weirdness, but as teenagers they should be Weird and Intense about each other in a way that's invisible and quite natural to them and a little strange to other people, not straightforwardly romantic but also not immediately familial. This can run the gamut from "Wei Wuxian climbs into Jiang Cheng's bed whenever he's lonely and wants a cuddle" to "they have wrestling matches where they take turns holding each other down" to skinny-dipping together to "I'll show you mine if you show me yours." If they were teens now, Wei Wuxian would take chewed gum out of Jiang Cheng's mouth to share and not even think about it. He would drunkenly sit in the bathtub at a party and watch Jiang Cheng pee instead of pausing the conversation. (Tell me you have seen some intense teenage friendships without telling me you've seen some intense teenage friendships.)

Oh, and Wei Wuxian, Jiang Cheng, and Nie Huaisang fooled around a little while drunk in the Cloud Recesses. The exact amount/degree is flexible.

12. What is your cutest headcanon?

Jin Ling may not have many friends his age, but that's because there was period where most people in new Jiang Sect were generally not having babies post-war. There just aren't that many kids his age in the sect. But he's doted on by the older disciples, who have contributed in no small way to his spoiling.

ALTERNATELY THAT WEN QING IS ALIVE. NO BODY, NO CRIME. (This is maybe just denial.)

13. What is your heart-breakingist headcanon?

Hmm, I'm not sure! How about this: Jin Ling liked Lan Xichen a lot, and—once things slow down a little after the main story—he worries about what happened to him. Not that he can do anything about it, and his seclusion is not even in the top three worst things that have happened lately, but he misses his xiao-shushu's nice friend around Jinlintai quite a bit.

Ask me fandom trash questions!

#asks #fandom trash ask game #wei wuxian #jiang cheng #nie huaisang #jin ling #wen qing #lan xichen #yunmeng shuangjie #chengxian #one braincell trio #mdzs +#least-carpet thoughts #ask game

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ninjakk · 1 month

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I'm the anon who's been reading ur SWaK fic! Thank you for answering the qi deviation question. it's making me see mdzs in a whole new light. I recently saw a post (askSythe on here) about the significance of the blood pool and how throwing bodies in there removes them from the reincarnation cycle and that's what the clans did to the Wen Remnants and JC is rumored to have led this siege and my heart HURTS. continuing this in next ask -

Hey there anon 👋🏻

I'm glad you're enjoying my fic ☺️

As for the post you are referencing, I had not come across this until you mentioned it in your ask and have since went in search of it in order to reply. From what I can gather from the notes, it seems to have garnered a lot of controversy and subsequent backlash against the person who posted it originally.

I don't want to criticise other people's posts (especially when they have already received so much negativity from it), but with all due respect, I don't feel this was MXTXs intention with the blood pool. There's no mention of it in any version I have and I've also had my friend check the entire original novel for the phrase '永不超生', which is quoted in the original post, and we can't locate that in the Chinese text either. Regardless of that, I don't feel such a claim fits with the rest of the novel.

I could be completely wrong, as it's not something I've really thought about, nor do I have the cultural knowledge of the specific concept the original post is referring to. But, if the Wen remnants were forever barred from reincarnating due to their corpses being thrown into and essentially trapped in an apparent 'unbreakable prison' (which they managed to escape), why would WWX set an array around the blood pool to stop corpses escaping when he lived there back in his first life? 🤔 How were all the corpses able to crawl out and run amok the minute a rampaging WN broke the seal around the pool? It just doesn't make much sense to do that if the fierce corpses residing within are already trapped there.

There's also the fact WWX uses the blood pool as well. Which makes me question this theory even more so. It goes against WWX's character and ethics to stop souls from reincarnating, when his very cultivation method involves empathy and 'spending' resentment so the entities can move on. Granted, WWX used the blood pool to nurture corpses resentment so he was able to harness it and direct it where required - in this case, I think it's most likely to replenish those guarding the base of the burial mounds and keeping the Wen remnants safe. In theory, the corpses residing there would eventually use up their resentment and their souls would move on. Hence the need for a supply of new fierce corpses he can utilise - which he helps move on in turn. I really don't think WWX would do such a thing if the blood pool was anything other than a collection of water that held strong resentment due to being contaminated by the many corpses already present in its depths. If anything, it's a similar situation to when he found the sword in the Xuanwu of Slaughter's stomach, which had been practically marinating in all the resentment of the beast's past victims.

Obviously the Wen remnants were unable to move on after being mercilessly slaughtered, but that is simply because they were denied a proper burial and unjustly murdered in what was a most violent, unprovoked attack. Once the blood corpses had spent their lingering resentment, saving the very people who had killed them and the man who tried so hard to protect them, they finally moved on and turned to ash - which WN promptly collected to ensure they could finally be put to rest respectfully, as they should have been long ago. I see no indication that they would not move on because they were left in the blood pool specifically.

Of course, the way the cultivators involved in the siege not only murdered innocent people, but then treated their victims corpses with such disgusting disrespect is utterly appalling. Even though there is no evidence that the blood pool acted as a type of supernatural prison of sorts, it does not subtract from what the cultivators did. They still made sure the Wen remnants could not rest in peace by their heartless actions regardless.

As for JCs involvement in the siege, it's not actually a rumour that he led the siege, he most certainly, unequivocally did. It's actually outright stated a few times in the novel. Even when WN mentioned as such, WWX did not correct him on that specific accusation. Later still JGY also mentions JCs involvement, right in front of the man in question no less, with no argument to the contrary. Finally, MXTX has also spoken about JCs involvement in leading the siege and confirmed he had indeed formulated a plan based on WWX's weaknesses, as the text suggests. He was very much the driving force of the whole thing, despite knowing the Wen remnants consisted of innocent people who were either weak, old, or a toddler. He is responsible for many people being brutally murdered and shows no remorse for it either - which speaks volumes about his character.

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi #mdzs novel #wen remnants #canon jiang cheng #burial mounds #anon ask #answered ask

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lryghe · 8 months

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MXTX thoughts; conventions

The long awaited (not) analysis of MXTX conventions is here! I’ve literally been meaning to talk about this for months but it got sidelined in favour of vicious arguing on PDB about MBTI. Anyways! Obviously this post will contain spoilers, and something I wanted to touch on was 3rd person limited in MXTX, but I already have a post on that here, so feel free to check that out for a better explanation of it. Beware of mediocre analysis ahead, I’m a little rusty (also shoutout to the person who liked some of my posts this morning, you reminded me to actually write something!).

THE AGENDA since this post is long:

Non-linear storylines

Dying and resurrection

Colour symbolism

Character tropes

NON-LINEAR STORYLINES

An interesting thing that follows MXTX’s more thought out works, is the non-linear plotlines she follows in them. This itself is a really good convention of writing in general, especially if it’s done well, and I can safely say that MXTX did it astoundingly well in TGCF. The clear cuts between time periods in relation to each book is an incredible feat, and is something that easily trumps MXTX's other examples of non-linear storylines. Through the use of the jumping back and forth in time, specifically in TGCF, creates an excellent cause and effect, something that is definitely central to the novel. Everything done has an effect, whether that be on the continuation of the plot, or even as a characterisation point, so the non-linear narrative cements that sense of foreboding hanging over everything. A simple sentence said when Xie Lian 17 somehow amounts to a complete upheaval of the heavens 800 years later, unveiling a conspiracy well over 2000 years old. A friendship group dissolving due to difficult circumstances results in a really horrific friendship confession later in the novel. Shi Wudu trying to save his sibling ends his own demise, the crippling of said sibling, and a vengeful ghost with nothing to do anymore. This nonlinear storyline is definitely used in MDZS as well, but I found it a bit more complex, and actually, now that I think about it, is a really good reflection of Wei Wuxian in general. The thing with MXTX, is that all her novels are in 3rd person limited, so they follow our protagonist in 3rd person, but it’s tinged with their own personal views and biases that limit the omniscience of 3rd person. And with MDZS it would be a fair assessment to say that the unordered mess of time leaps in the novel are an excellent indication of Wei Wuxian’s bias leaking through the 3rd person. The incessant jumping is difficult to follow in places (don’t say otherwise), but it’s actually a genius idea because it’s an accurate assessment of the thought process that Wei Wuxian probably follows anyway. I wouldn’t say that this was definitely on purpose however, as MDZS was written before TGCF, so it could just be MXTX growing alongside her writing, but hey, maybe it is a stroke of complete and beautiful genius! Don’t bother mentioning SVSSS, it’s definitely an interesting novel, but it’s not non-linear, at least not as wholly as MDZS and TGCF are. The most you’ll get in SVSSS is like a two line flashback, plus the extra’s, but I think that’s a reflection of when MXTX wrote it.

DYING AND RESURRECTION

Moving on from serious conventions, MXTX’s trope with one of the main characters dying and then coming back later is a really funny kind of convention, because it’s not funny in the moment obviously, but the fact that it’s done at least once per novel is hilarious. Wei Wuxian’s initial resurrection after 13 years of being dead, Shen Qingqiu’s return in his plant body 5 years later, and then his return back to his ‘original’ body, and Hua Cheng’s little death defying stunt at the end of the novel. Then there’s the use of cliffs and such, like Binghe’s fall into the Abyss, Hua Cheng’s fall off that wall (forgive me its been like 3 years since I read TGCF), and if we’re being inclusive, then there’s always Wei Wuxian’s death in The Untamed. Maybe there’s a hidden meaning in there somewhere, but it’s fine to look at it from a surface level, which amounts to ‘MXTX got bored and needed some drama’. A perfectly reasonable deduction.

COLOUR SYMBOLISM

Another thing I wanted to touch on was the colour symbolism that MXTX uses because I think it’s pretty cool, AND it has the added benefits of adding symbolism and contrast to each novel's main character and their love interest. It’s mentioned in the novel’s obviously, but it really shines in fan content and fanarts. I like the symbolism of Luo Binghe and Shen Qingqiu’s robes both being green before the time-skip, because Luo Binghe was a disciple at the time and a little white lotus, so the green was used to directly align him with Shen Qingqiu. After the timeskip he’s obviously got his big boy pants on and swapped to a stunning black and red ensemble, fitting of the protagonist, and that itself contrasts Shen Qingqiu’s majestic and lofty green robes, because Binghe means business with this fit. A fun thought is how green and red fit together on the colour spectrum, because they don’t, they’re contrasting colours which is some real obvious symbolism. Do I really need to spell out Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian? I feel like this one is rudimentary. White equals noble and virtuous, pure and holy, and black is evil, demonic, cruel, and scary. Simple! And Hua Cheng and Xie Lian’s red and white are a very cute mixture, because although it gives them a Bingqiu style christmas tree vibe, it’s interesting in comparison to the previous two love interest and main character dynamics, considering red and white are a lot more complimentary than black and white or red and green. And it’s a testament to how similar Hualian are with their complimentary robes, how like-minded they are throughout the novel, especially considering their predecessors. Or maybe I’m overthinking it, who knows?

CHARACTER TROPES

In regards to tropes of MXTX, I think her character tropes are incredible and have the addition of being really funny. She’s consistent enough with her conventions that clear links can be drawn with her side characters across all 3 novels. To begin with, there’s Mr Angry. I think you can guess who that is, but it's Jiang Cheng, Liu Qingge, and Mu Qing. All have a really close relationship with their related main character, all are angry or harsh where they probably didn't need to be, and all three are good fighters. Then there’s the guy who’s always smiling, like Yue Qingyuan or Lan Xichen. Complacency is a key part of their characters, and excuses aside, it’s interesting how it played out. You could argue for Jun Wu to be a part of this circle, but I’ll keep that to myself. Finally, there’s the fodder characters, only useful to further the plot in a miniscule way. Gongyi Xiao (MAY HE REST WELL), Xiao Xingchen, and once again, I don’t have a very good TGCF equivalent. Gongyi Xiao dies after the events of the water prison, and Xiao Xingchen was really just there to highlight how fucked up Xue Yang was. Rest in peace our beloved fodder, especially Gongyi Xiao, MXTX should have treated you better…

I think I’ve typed myself out honestly. Kudos to whoever reached the end of this post, I haven’t written this much since my Team 7 analysis when I got back into my Naruto phase briefly.

Word count: 1271

Reading time: 4 ½ mins

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lancabbage · 10 months

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Thinking about fandom and how some don't really understand the novel's setting.

I think a lot of people in this fandom view the MDZS through a modern lens. It's ancient China... Where ancient Chinese culture is at play. WWX was entitled to his revenge, specifically what happened to him coming back on WC in turn. WC left him for dead in a literal hell hole. Starving, fighting for his life. MXTX gave us the Yi City arc to show us exactly WHAT was accepted in terms of revenge back then and in the MDZS universe. XXC is not bothered if XY took the other man's finger (or even his whole hand!) in revenge for his losing a finger - because it's expected of him. XXC knows this and has no qualms with it. His anger lies in how out of balance his revenge was - not that he took it, that he valued his little finger more than a whole clan's lives as a collective.

WWX did what was expected of him. Yes, it was gruesome, but he's traumatised! And also, I once read this meta on WWX using the ghost and how it is more personal to the ghosts he is using - he uses their resentment against WC, and the meta poses that's because they are known to him. Very interesting and incredibly compelling.

#mdzs #wei wuxian #people need to stop judging mdzs as if it's setting in modern times #yi city arc is there in the novel for many reasons #and one of them is to show the justice system back then #an eye for an eye #it was expected of WWX #it would actually be dishonourable not to

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i-bring-crack · 3 months

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Self talk here but if I were to do a crossover of MXTX's works I would absolutely have Shen Jiu and Wei wuxian meet. Not only due to the vast, horribly vast differences in their personalities and their ideals (caring for the rest at the expense of yourself vs. hiding the crimes you've done for your survival) but also because Shen Jiu is the prime example of becoming a great cultivator despite your humble beginnings, yet it also reassures him that to become such a cultivator, he must hide away everything that has made him different in the first place.

For the most part, MDZS is talking about the classism within the martial arts world, this wuxia world specifically. But upon bringing Svsss(PDIW to be more accurate) and TGCG into the mix, Wei Wuxian is no longer the only character that has humble beginnings. And even if Wei Wuxian knows about Jin Guangyao, it keeps being a constant reminder that he can only be someone respected if he agrees with the rest. If he become someone he isn't.

And yet when Shen Jiu starts to open more about who he really is, probably having nowhere else to go now that the one and only Emperor of 3 realms is out for his ass, Wei wuxian and him have some common differences that makes them stick to each other and bring out the best for the sake of everyone's survival.

(Beware this has somehow become a drabble idea below)

I'd mostly put their meeting of Shen Jiu being a ghost that just walks around the burial mounds (former Qing Jing Peak before Bingge decided to release hellfire him here alongside his body.) Unable to find peace for all the things he had done in life that made him regret everything. And then one day, finding this boy, exhausted, to the brink of death, and yeah, absolutely should have died where it not for whatever cultivation he is doing right now. He tends to the boy, having nothing else to do in this desolate place, and with the knowledge of his former peak, as well as the rest of the knowledge he has done while trying to escape Luo Binghe for the remaining years of his life, he knows a thing or two about refining resentful energy (heaven knows he is using most of it right now to never be under the Emperor’s clutches) so he helps the boy live, and the youth thrives on that survival.

A few months in as he lives, as he learns to play his flute and gather enough strength, Wei Wuxian tells his story to his sort-of-master, from the new clans to the hatred to the stories of his family, his last remaining siblings. Shen Jiu can no longer resent anyone else, so he doesn't become jealous of the boy and instead finds these new stories somewhat, amusing. Boring to a man who lived many things, but something worthwhile as he lives here, alone.

Shen Jiu never had a reason to eat and he doesn't plan to, but he has to get food for the boy, so he haunts some places here and there, scaring weird loons while this child laughs about the way they screamed and fled from his sight. He often wonders to Shen Jiu why he doesn't reveal that gloomy face of his, and Shen Jiu, after much pestering (and somehow the boy never pushing the line, as though he has dealt with someone like this before), he relents to tell his story, not his background, and leaving a lot of details here and there, but Wei Wuxian gets it, this tired, worn down ghost was once the most famous cultivator from the most famous peak lord of his era. Shen Qingqiu, the Xiuya Sword of Cang Qiong peak. Oh, no wonder he knew so much about martial arts.

But he can't believe it at first, such a deflated ghost once the most beautiful and prestigious man, until his secrets where found that is. He is likely more remembered for that than the rest, although Wei Wuxian developed over the months a bit more of an interest for those hints of a humble life than for the dramas that are heard in all 3 realms.

Half, unable to leave this place and half unwilling to be recognized by anyone else, Shen Jiu is left to ponder about his life again in the silence of the Burial Mounds, sometimes finding new corpses to bury, other times finding the ash of his past sect. He does ponder whenever or not it is a good idea for him to have raised yet another revenge filled lunatic and set it free in this world, but at least he feels calm knowing that the youth isn't out to kill him in any way.

However, it seems the youth, no longer so youthful though, is absolutely out to irritate him when they find each other again. And with no explanation whatsoever, Wei Wuxian delivers him some 50 or so people under his care. His and Wei Wuxian's care.

Everything then starts to bring him back to those days in Qing Jing Peak; A-Yuan's playful attitude the same as Ning Yingying when she first entered his peak. Wen Ning's respectful obedience like that of Ming Fan. The small herbs slowly being planted, turning back the green from a long lost bamboo forest. The kindness of the Granny Wen and Si-shu almost reminiscent of his assended Shizun.

And that fight between Jiang Cheng, who Wei Wuxian informs him of being the same brother he once gave the golden core to, the same brother he live and fought alongside for many years. It almost strangles him to see a vivid picture of Bai Zhan's peak lord in him. Shen Jiu, while dealing with his new disciple's injuries, slowly unwraps everything he sees in him, the path of revenge Luo Binghe has taken, the path of glory Shen Jiu has taken, all of that is what Wei Wuxxian is slowly becoming.

But unlike Binghe, he will not last any longer, and he doesn't want to become a resentful ghost like his master, he has to find a way to leave his demonic cultivation all behind. Ironically, the same man and the same teachings that made him live had been the same ones to ruin him, just as he had ruined himself and the Emperor’s mind forever.

#this went prose really quickly.#im so sorry #svsss #shen jiu #luo bingge #wei wuxian #canon divergence #crossover #haha wei wuxian having a friendship with a horrible cold front ghost #“its like ive found lan wangji's old self!”#and then get slaped with the knowledge that shen jiu is more alike to him than to wangji #mdzs #if we are fully on the crossover with tgcf #then hua cheng considers Shen Jiu more of a calamity than Qi Rong. but Shen Jiu always likes to be cooped up in his little mounds #so he never gets to do anything too popular to earn the eyes of anyone in the ghost realm #Hua Cheng just knows him bc he was trying to find to find details about all the resentful energy gathering in that place #if you ask me about who the heaven emperor is Bingge or Junwu? Yes #mxtx mdzs #mxtx crossover

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mxtxfanatic · 1 year

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I know chapter 1 of mdzs is full of contradictions about Wei Wuxian’s actions that you don’t even know to look for on your first read, but I am obsessed with the immediate backpedaling this section does:

Once dead and buried, Wei Wuxian’s reputation was set. Everyone’s opinions were much the same, whatever the differences in the details. Even if someone had the temerity to voice an alternative view, they were immediately met with such fierce opposition that it was rapidly extinguished.

—Chapt. 1: Rebirth, fanyiyi

“Everyone agreed” says the first sentence, followed immediately by “anyone who disagreed was bullied into silence, so basically everyone agreed.” Mxtx telling us from the very beginning that there is room for doubt in the rumors and that we should not be taking the dominant story—told by people who had not witnessed the events, themselves—as truth when the powers that be are also working overtime to suppress dissent.

#human reads mdzs: take 2 #i will not be adding all translations #unless I'm doing a deep-dive #if I only have one translation up #it's because the others say practically the same thing #mdzs

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gurggggleburgle · 1 month

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So this is one of those things I think about once a blue moon but I remember when I got back on my fujoshi trashbin and into mdzs and svsss that I read a blurb and never cared to double check about mxtx writing d.gray-man fanfic and I kinda just went this feels true but I won't say it is.

I remember seeing people discussing the fact mxtx doesn't state Liu Qingge as being gay and etc on pairings and debating on why and I never said anything because in my head the answer was obvious:

Well yeah. It's cuz that's just Kanda. I have never seen a character more that's just Yu Kanda in a wig. It's not even wig. And Kanda is a deeply weird character to discuss when it comes to romance or even liking people.

Anyway I'm probably completely wrong on this but literally the reason I never dug deeper was both that I didn't care and as a d.gray-man fan it just made sense.

#svsss #svsss shitpost #mxtx #svsss meta #liu qingge #scumbag system #scum villain self saving system #if you told me mxtx was a laven shipper i would believe it

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web-novel-polls · 5 months

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MXTX Side Characters Upper Bracket

Shang Qinghua / Airplane from SVSSS

Jiang Cheng from MDZS

["Anti-Propaganda" that attacks other characters is NOT allowed. Please only give reasons to vote FOR a character.]

#shang qinghua #svsss #jiang cheng #mdzs #mxtx #polls #mxtx side characters tournament #mxtx side characters upper bracket #mxtx side characters upper finals #queue

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layzeal · 2 years

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i said 5 months ago i was gonna share my thoughts on this scene and never did, so it's time to dig this out

what did wei wuxian mean by asking shijie "why would someone like another person" and why i.... don't think he's talking about lan wangji (i know-- i know. just bear with me)

or more accurately: an analysis of chapter 71, wwx's thoughts on love, and how mxtx utilizes parallels between past and present!

(Ch 71 of MDZS web revised edition //// ExR translation)

okay let's get straight to the point that's gonna make y'all want to call me a stupid bitch who can't read: i legitimately do not think wwx was talking about lwj in this scene! here's why:

first and foremost, let's remember what the status of wangxian's relationship was at this point after sunshot ended

first, phoenix mountain: a callback to their teen dynamic. wwx's silly and flirty personality is back, he teases lwj by throwing a peony at him then asking to borrow his ribbon. lwj is frustrated, etc. lwj forcefully kisses wwx then gets angry at himself. wwx finds him and gets worried that something happened to him. they walk together and talk in very friendly manner until the xuanli incident happens. by the end they part on good terms

then, yunmeng teahouse: the first scene of this chapter. wwx is feeling quite upbeat about seeing lwj as they had a nice chat last time they met. he does a lil phoenix mountan callback by throwing a peony at him, then asking him to come upstairs and hang out. lwj does but it.... doesnt end well. he's worried about wwx's worsening temper and fears he's starting to show signs of loss of control, and asks him once again to go to gusu with him. that severely sours wwx's mood, to the point of snapping at lwj when lwj implies that he'll regret it in the future. lwj realizes his mistake and they become polite again, but the atmosphere is significantly strained, and wwx even comments that he was presumptious and shouldn't have invited him over, which lwj dissents. wwx parts with a cordial but distant "thank you", and on... not great terms

what i think really makes the above hurt though is that, when wwx comes back to yunmeng and jc asks who he met. wwx answers this:

worse than jin zixuan.....oof. im so sorry hgj

so, it really is quite tragic. wwx had a nice time with lwj in phoenix mountain, and because of that he wanted to try and wash away their bad blood, ask him to hang out, recall some stories of their youth, maybe mend this relationship that became so strained during the war! what happens instead is that... he gets the harsh reminder of what (in his mind) lwj thinks of his cultivation, thinks he's not in control of it, that it's dangerous and he should be locked up. with that, they're all back to square one :(

the thing is, MDZS is quite known for being non-linear and having a humongous amount of flashbacks, and they're all set and positioned at the time they were for a reason! the thing is, as most read the novel once and then proceed to only revisit scenes separately, naturally forgetting about the grand-picture and the scenes that come before and after, we might misremember how some events play out or the state of the character arcs and relationships, and i believe the popular fanon interpretation that "omggg wwx was asking yanli this bc he likes lwj but can't admit this yet!!!! 🙈" is quite of a great example of this

but!! it's not for any bad reason, after all both the Audio Drama and CQL kinda play up this moment with some beautiful background music. this is, in the end, a romance novel! but let's put a pin on that for a bit and analyze what led to this scene, and why WWX came looking for shijie to ask her this

so as you see, the scene right before was wei wuxian and jiang cheng talking about jin zixuan, with jc asking wwx to not pick fights with him anymore since he's the heir of lanling jin. wwx is baffled because up until that point he and jc were trashtalking buddies when it came to jzx, but there's nothing they can do about it if shijie still likes him

that... makes wwx quite speechless, and he goes searching for her to get an answer. in his mind, jzx is still an awful, undeserving person! so why would shijie like him so much?

why would someone like another person?

of course, he's not as shameless to ask shijie right to her face why she likes someone like jzx, esp since she's already well familiar with his poor opinion of him, so he tries getting an "unbiased" answer by making a vague question, which in turn makes shijie think wwx is in love with someone else

now here's the thing: i feel like fandom tends to flanderize wwx when it comes to his unreliable narration, awareness of his own feelings or lan wangji's. we don't have time to get into that now, but if you've followed me for a while you know my thoughts on this

but here, specifically, i do not think wwx is in "denial about his crush" or "waving off because he doesnt want to get caught". his answer feels genuine, and honestly? really sad once you think about it

"I won't like anyone, at least not too much. Wouldn't it be like putting a rein on my own neck?"

this isn't strange once you consider the types of romantic relationships he grew up observing. other than his own parents', which he's mostly forgotten about, a strong love and attatchment sounds more like tying a rope around your neck. even though wwx is a romantic at heart who flirts easily but had been saving his first kiss for 20 years, he's still never felt this type of love for anyone before, and can't imagine putting himself through it

"So, wait... just because WWX said so you think you should believe it? You're telling me the curtains are just blue? If he's not talking about Lan Wangji, then what's the point of this scene?"

glad you asked!

you see, something that MXTX does quite often with the flashback placement in MDZS is contrast the moments where wangxian's relationship was at its best with moments where it was at its worst. As wwx recall these memories, his pre-conceived notions about lwj get challenged and his actions and words get recontextualized! my favorite example is probably the ending of the flashback of wwx's return, to him waking up in the cloud recesses

no i'll never shut up about this flashback placement. my goddd

so, when looking at the "why would someone like another person" scene, i ask you to not look at it by itself, but as a part of the literary work that mdzs is! because, as the wangxian of the past are stuck in this cordial, but strained relationship, do you remember where the wangxian of the present have currently been left at?

if you ask me, there is something incredibly sweet about leaving these characters at their most tender --- when one is finally beginning to not only understand his own feelings, but to suspect that those feelings are requited, in which he's allowing himself to imagine a calm and happy future with him right as they march inside the lion's den --- and meeting them again when they're younger, and strained, and not fully knowing how to communicate that they care for each other, which in turn only hurts them both.

there is something very sweet about seeing wwx who is slowly realizing that he's in love, testing the waters of that, seeing how much he can take, in what ways he can ask for affection, and then seeing him again as he says "i won't ever like someone, at least not so much. wouldnt it be suffocating? wouldn't it be an impediment? wouldnt it be shackling yourself?" because you, like a cheeky grandma, can look at him and think: you don't know yet, but i've seen you then. you will like someone very much, and it won't be restraining. in fact, you'll never feel more free...

and that is the biggest thing, about revisiting this scene after you're done. because you'll look back this 20-something WWX who genuinely believed loving someone to much is like putting a rein around his own neck... and knowing he'll know a love that not only will not feel like a restrain*, but will be there to catch him whenever something does

*okay, except in bed, but that's only a bonus for wwx

#i kinda miss literary analysis class. this is a love letter to my literature teachers #mdzs is a beautiful literary work and deserves to be treated as such!#anyways uhhh. wangxian is poggers #i feel like sometimes in people's attempts to make wx more tropey and traditionally romantic #it makes them lose what actually makes their romance so special #and the brilliance of the flashback placements in mdzs #i already wrote a lot today so no tag essay lmao. enjoy!#modao #lace speaks #do i put this in the tag? ehhhh #demi wwx

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