#meta by effie

[lordeasriel]

What don’t you like about the tv show version of Marisa

Well, it's not Marisa, for one thing. It's a very crude and poor attempt at bringing her on-screen. Talking about what I dislike about her means this gets intrinsic with the show's greatest flaws, because they are a big part of what is wrong with her portrayal.

First issue I have is that she is a very washed down version of what Marisa is. She's soft, purposeless other than "Lyra is my daughter" and overall she is a dull character. Had Book! Lyra ever met her, she would have found Show!Marisa boring.

Marisa's lack of purpose is deeply tied with many narrative problems, such as shallow worldbuilding (the non-women scholar bullshit from season 2, for one, and the lack of daemons) and even with Boreal, they played it very safe and boring. When Marisa deals with him in the books, she is power-playing and very strongly too; he isn't a nobody. In the show is very meh, Boreal is almost on even grounds with her, which makes her scheming silly and uninterested. Worse than that, she whines and cries so much in front of him (in episode 5, season 2 specifically, and this is where I left the show and I do not intend to come back lol) that it makes no sense. Marisa's vulnerability is only seen in specific moments of the book — with Asriel at the bridge, then later at the abyss, once with Lyra in the caves. There is a reason why she is vulnerable in those instances, and only then. Making her open herself to Boreal is utter garbage, plain and simple.

Second issue I have is how they set the tone for her to be a scorned mother. The show plays, again and again, the "I've always wanted you Lyra but--" card. They make it seem like Asriel stole Lyra from Marisa's throbbing chest and disappeared into the night, and oh! how desperately she has looked for her beloved child. Honestly! All the fucking books, even TBOD, show how she didn't want Lyra then and when she finally did, it was out of self interest and vanity. Only later, in TAS, is when she finally warms up to Lyra. They erased her character development for the sake of some motherly tears and I loathe it.

This pair's with Sami's latest post which just proves what I've been saying since season one: they took a great, leading character female character and they made it all about motherhood. It's insulting. Marisa is so much more than a mother. She never wanted to be a mother.

Third issue is the "She is bad because of how oppressed she has been" issue. Northern Lights, chapter four - Lyra dines with the women and the master and you have a whole discussion on female scholars and how Lyra felt pity for them and so on and how Mrs. Coulter was very different. Like, anyone who had actually bothered reading the novels could tell you that Lyra's world is a patriarchal world, but the women still find their way around, as they have since forever in our world.

Now for the show, this pisses me off on many levels, but my main issue is with how they try, so hard, to have Marisa say - and this is important, it's never shown, it's only ever said by her - how men get the better end of the deal, how she had to work so hard to get where she was and blah blah blah. Honestly, this is very true for the show; they bothered very little to write meaningful women into it, the one change I would have appreciated very much, but as in regards to the truth of the character, it's just nonsense. This whole shenanigan could have been fixed with Hannah Relf's presence, because she alone would prove that Marisa's cruelty and malice are innate traits, not a byproduct of her world being sexist. It makes no sense.

If you're looking for more insight into that, I recommend Gaslight, gatekeep, girlboss which is an analysis of episode 5, season 2 and this patriarchy business on the show. It's very good and insightful and more reasonable than I will ever be discussing the show lol

There's no excuse for Marisa's poorly written character. It's a waste of Ruth Wilson's acting and a damn shame for a studio that so often claimed to have learned from the movie's mistakes (which they, very very obviously did not as Marisa from the show and the movie are very, very similar). That's why I've only stuck with books since season 2, because while Philman sometimes does stuff I don't entirely agree with, he has a great grasp on the woman he wrote, which is why I leave you with Madame Delamare's own words about Marisa, something the show writers failed utterly to understand and therefore could never truly bring her to screen:

"Delicately and subtly," she mocked "Marisa would know how to show some force. Some character. She was all the man you'll never be."

#marisa coulter #meta by effie #hdm meta: marisa coulter #thanks for the ask! sorry for the rant!

[amphorographia]

I think one of the reasons so many people love the Hunger Games Trilogy is the fact that it actually acknowledges and grapples with the effects of trauma when so many other series (YA and adult) just sweep it under the rug.

#hunger games #the hunger games #catching fire #mockingjay #hunger games trilogy #katniss everdeen #peeta mellark #effie trinket #haymitch abernathy #hunger games meta #meta #suzanne collins #mental health #mental illness #trauma

[orchidbreezefc]

i wanna talk about haymitch abernathy.

well, first i wanna talk about the treatment of chemical addiction in the hunger games trilogy. because it's good. a lot of characters, including katniss, struggle with it. it gets explored in considerable depth, and not once is any character looked down on for it (well, aside from some eye-rolling with haymitch and perhaps pity for the 'morphlings' in book 2).

no one is infantilized, dehumanized, or considered weak for their dependency, even when they're incoherent from inebriation or withrawal. addicts are treated with dignity,  and there is only ever respect, understanding, and sympathy for their struggle and for the trauma that led them to this position. the story has no interest in scrutinizing how they got there or whether their behavior is sufficiently justified, only in meeting them where they are.

everyone has suffered at the hands of the capitol, and some people have resorted to substances to cope--even and especially smart, competent people. it's unfortunate and painful for them (and the focus is always on the addict's suffering, not anyone else's) but it's always understood as doing what they had to do. survival is a crucial theme in these books, and this is just another form of it.

this understanding extends to the point that katniss and peeta independently hoard liquor in case haymitch runs out. he's fucking annoying and rude and at that point they have no reason to believe they stand to gain anything from helping him, but they do it anyway because abandoning him would be cruel. it's not ever a question of enabling an alcoholic, it's a question of not letting a man fucking die of withdrawal.

see, rough around the edges is an insufficient description for haymitch; he's rough all the way to the middle. he is a messy, sloppy drunk. he is rude, obnoxious, and venomously cynical. he is also the smartest character in a series full of extremely smart characters.

in the first book all that is said about haymitch's victory is speculation from katniss and peeta. they note that he isnt a standout physical talent and doesnt have any specialized abilities, and deduce that he must have won by outsmarting the others. this is innocuous enough and supported by the shrewdness of haymitch's sponsor gifts and his coaching outside the games.

the recontextualization comes in book 2 when we learn haymitch was the victor of the 50th hunger games, the last quarter quell--which had twice as many tributes as usual. haymitch didn't outsmart 23 other people, up to a third of them having trained for this exact purpose until age 17. haymitch outsmarted 47.

haymitch abernathy? is a big fucking deal. that man waltzed in from The underdog district, unmentored and presumably earning approximately zero sponsor gifts with his winning personality, and won the hardest hunger games there has ever been. haymitch is the most impressive bitch in panem. between this and our increasing insight into how the victors are treated, the alcoholism gets recontextualized too.

imagine how frothingly fucking pissed the capitol is that haymitch is impossible to leverage for any PR purpose whatsoever. like, this is The victor, but what are they gonna do? show off the victor of the hardest hunger games of all time and he's fucking haymitch?

he shows up to every public appearance fall-down drunk and pukes on someone's shoes. every time he's on screen he embarrasses everyone. he makes the hunger games look like a joke and undermines the whole premise. he's supposed to be the capitol's biggest asset and he's pissed all over it. he's useless to them. the best thing they can do is leave him alone.

that's when you think, wait. that's kind of a rebellion in itself, huh? he defies the capitol's efforts to use him as 'a piece in their game' better than anyone else outside district 13, maybe them too, when he should be their favored pawn. he's about as free of their influence as anyone can be. that seems... smart. haymitch-typical smart.

haymitch's alcoholism is real and no doubt a legitimate result of his trauma, but it's also a weapon. he probably plays it up. gets extra trashed for every public appearance, the earlier in the day the better. asks himself what he could do that would horrify effie trinket the most and then does that.

at the same time, haymitch seems to get it together more as the series goes on. from the sound of it he was content to drink himself to death and blow off every tribute in his district before katniss and peeta came along and he recognized in them the potential for revolutionaries and, more importantly, the potential for victors. for the first time he had a real chance to achieve a goal, and the real necessity to be sharp for it.

my guess is that haymitch started making actual efforts to manage his alcoholism from then on. getting sober is pretty much impossible to do on your own, and indeed he has a relapse for every time he improves. but haymitch would have known he'd need any scrap of competence he could snatch. and i think, away from our heroine's perspective, he did. you can play drunk for a camera; you can't play sober for a planning session.

the one thing that really helps with addiction is a support network, and that's the one thing haymitch can never have. it is made blisteringly clear that your loved ones are so much ammunition for the capitol to use against you, and they desperately need some for haymitch. he says his loved ones are all dead, but one wonders if there were more that he made damn sure were no longer loved ones before that happened. maybe haymitch saved some lives by driving people as far away as he could, and doomed himself to succumb to the alcoholism in the process.

on a sillier note, i imagine during katniss and peeta's games haymitch would have needed someone to manage his intake and keep him sober enough to strategize the sponsorships without sending him into withdrawal. and i like to think it was effie trinket.

she'd disapprove at first but dosages and scheduling would be her JAM. plus haymitch would always cave in to her sanctimonious lectures before she caved in to his demands for more. it would be really motivating, actually--"i can endure this. anything's better than hearing one more fucking word from effie goddamn trinket about my health." truly the dream team.

tl;dr i fucking love haymitch abernathy. he's one of the characters of all time. thank you, suzanne collins, for this smart, competent, callous, mean, complex alcoholic who is vital to the revolution. thank you for writing addicts and addiction with the depth, seriousness, complexity, and respect they deserve as human beings.

#the hunger games #haymitch abernathy #just finished the books let's goooooo #addiction cw #alcoholism cw #alcohol cw #substance cw #meta #sage speaks #sage original post #long post #thanks to wyn and hazel especially for helping me hammer out these thoughts. and for the effie headcanon it is actually genius #thg #spoilers through the end of catching fire i guess #hunger games #i do meta now maybe #greatest hits

[desperatecheesecubes]

Thinking about how in The Hunger Games the management team was dressing and presenting Katniss and Peeta as a set from the start, even before Peeta told anyone he was in love with Katniss and that became then going strategy. It becomes clear throughout the series that all of them were or become active in the rebellion so it seems clear to me that the intention was just to be subversive. ‘Just the perfect touch of rebellion’ as Haymitch says.

And then of course it all helps them sell the love story.The prep teams would have probably mentioned how Katniss and Peeta reassured each other after the opening ceremonies, how Katniss kissed Peeta on the cheek. Any of the trainers could have spoken about how they were always together for all three days of instruction. There were almost certainly guards watching the two of them on the roof, talking to each other, Peeta giving Katniss his jacket when she’s cold. And there’s no way none of their classmates noticed the two of them watching each other in school through the years. Hell Peetas whole family probably knew about his crush, we know they all knew Katniss.

‘Peeta must have been playing that angle all along’ ‘mostly Peeta really, there’s no question he’s carrying this romance thing on his shoulders.’ Katniss just didn’t get to see all the interviews they did that were telling her side of the love story.

#mine #hunger games meta #the hunger games #literature #I feel like I’m making two seperate points here but fuck it this isn’t an essay they’re going in one single post #katniss everdeen #peeta mellark #haymitch abernathy #anyway you can’t really tell but this is part of my ‘Effie was a rebel’ propaganda #I forgot about how Haymitch could have talked about how the both of them IMMEDIATELY started bragging about each other accomplishments #completely normal behavior for two people who don’t feel any particular way about each other and are definitely totally strangers #nailed it you guys!!!

[sunshinechay]

Sorry not sorry you NEED to info dump me on prapapski I need to be convinced to watch this show. Im on the edge of getting into it, but im feeling lazy LOL. Push me into the void! Im ready!! Im immune to spoilers, just lay it on me XD

Well, you asked for it. Haha XD Putting it under a cut because this is long! sorry not sorry

First of all, PrapaiSky has, in my opinion, god tier relationship development. Prapai starts off as a total fuckboy, who is creepy to say the least, who becomes just the best boyfriend one could ask for to his Sky. I’ve described Sky before as a traumatized little bumblebee and I think it holds up. He can be prickly, standoffish and even downright mean, but he is also funny, fierce and an extremely loyal friend. He actually goes through the trouble and trauma of calling his ex to find out where the illegal street race is supposed to be taking place because Rain wanted to break in so he could fuck some shit up for Phayu. Sky, underneath it all, just wants someone who will love and cherish him. He has so much fear and anxiety and even depression linked to his romantic past. The way he acts is helpful in deterring most people, but Pai is not most people. XD

They start as a one night stand, that only happens because Prapai makes a bad (semi) joke/proposition after Sky chases Rain into the illegal race track. Sky needs to be able to leave without security taking him away and, it is implied, doing him physical harm/possibly killing him. Pai says he can get Sky out of the race but Sky has to do something for him. Implying but never outrightly stating that what he wants is sex, to which Sky agrees because he doesn’t want security to get him. This in itself does boarder on sexual cocertion, which is a big ass yikes, though it is clear through context clues that while Sky might not be happy to be put in this position, he definitely enjoys the sex, though he does not have a high opinion of Pai afterward. Which honestly, would anyone? I know I wouldn’t haha. Of course we realize later than even if Sky had said no to Pai, Pai would have gotten him out anyway because Pai is a lot of things but he is not that kind of asshole.

Ngl, Prapai is pretty creepy towards the beginning of his persuit of Sky. Like the first episode or so of their story (ep8 for the series as a whole), I want to smack Pai across the head and tell Sky to run very far away. But that does not last long and as soon as Sky realizes that Pai is just your home grown, organic, garden variety fuckboy rather than the actual scum of the earth that his ex is, he is more open to at least spending time with him, since Pai is so persistent in his persuit.

You see Sky is a domestic violence and sexual assault survivor, a fact he has told literally no one since it happened. Not Rain, not any of his friends, not even his dad. It’s often why he acts the way he does. He is very afraid to let anyone, including his friends, get to close to him emotionally. Prapai blatantly doesn’t listen to any of this, and keeps pursuing Sky because he genuinely wants to know Sky and wants to be with him. He is so tight lipped about it that he hasn’t even told Rain his ex is a guy. He doesn’t tell Pai about his past until the last episode, after Sky’s ex attempts to sexual assault him.

It’s around the time that Sky gets sick that you really start to see the kind of couple they will become. Sky gets sick due to his trauma. Sky begins to have nightmares around this time, which starts to cause panic attacks as well as insomnia. It is in part because of Pai insisting he be allowed to woo Sky. Pai still does not know about Sky’s trauma and thus thinks that Sky is just a tough nut to crack but if he keeps going he can do it. His smile is just so adorable that you mostly forgive him for his crimes, though I did side eye him a lot during these first few episodes.

One of the things I love about this part though is that, if you pay attention to what Sky is thinking about the whole situation, it ultimately isn’t even really about Pai, more the idea of history repeating itself. Sky’s self esteem and self worth, understandably, takes a pretty big nose dive in the wake of what happened to him and the things that Sky says to himself point to him not believing that someone like Pai could actually have feels for him, that there is no way Pai is serious about all of this. He just wants to have fun and get some sex out of the deal. Which is a big problem for Sky, because he, a) already knows exactly how good at sex Pai is and (I think anyway) would definitely be down for a repeat performance and b) is actually starting to really like Pai. He likes that Pai had an easy going guy who, on the surface at least (not just on the surface Sky), just wants to get to know Sky and have fun with him. He likes that Pai doesn’t react when Sky is mean to him, just teases Sky about it. He likes that Pai tries to bring him meals because he knows Sky is a college student in a really competitive faculty. He is terrified that he will get in too deep and fall in love again only to have the rug ripped out from under him and be left more broken and more damaged and more unloveable than he already believes he is.

Sky ends up fainting in class, which freaks the hell out of his friends, which are another friend group that I love, though they do not have enough development in my opinion. The problem is, because they are all in the same faculty, they have a lot of responsibilities in terms of school work and getting everything they need done. Sky can be excused because of his illness but the rest of them can’t. Rain ends up calling Pai to come and take care of Sky because someone needs to stay with him and Sky’s father doesn’t live close enough to Bangkok to come and Rain has too much school work that he won’t be able to finish if he tries leaving to get it and coming back. To Rain, Pai seems like the more logical option, since Prapai isn’t in school and thus doesn’t have those responsibilities. As well, Sky knows Pai and Rain thinks (only somewhat incorrectly) that they are close enough that Pai is an ideal choice to be Sky’s caretaker.

Pai gladly agrees and proceeds to take the best care of Sky he knows how to provide. Dude literally googles how to take care of sick people at home and even calls his mother because he doesn’t want to fuck anything up. The sick montage is so fucking adorable. As Sky starts to get better and better, the two spend more and more time together. Like Pai actually calls the president/CEO of his company (aka his dad because of course haha) about needing time off and ends up doing a whole bunch of work at Sky’s dorm so he doesn’t fall behind but also doesn’t want to leave Sky. The man dotes on Sky like Sky is the more perfect being in the universe (as he should!). Sky, for his part, starts to realize that Pai isn’t like his ex. That Pai is much better than his ex. He’s still not sure how much he’s willing to believe but oh boy is Sky falling even harder than he was before. It is definitely a “Prapai fell first but Sky fell harder” situation going on. It’s the best! At one point, Sky wakes up in the middle of the night to see that Pai has fallen asleep next to him on the bed, laptop open, papers everywhere, because Sky was holding his hand (because nightmares) and he didn’t want to go anywhere. Sky goes to touch Pai and ends up accidentally waking him up. Pai realizes the way he fell asleep and goes to clean up his work papers, only for Sky (who was pretending to still be asleep) to grab his arm and pretend to be having another nightmare so Pai wouldn’t leave. Don’t try and tell me my boy isn’t already completely gone over Pai, because you would be wrong! Boy wants to be close to Pai, but at this point, doesn’t have the words or courage to ask for the kind of physical and emotional closeness that he craves. With Pai caring for him though, he is slowly starting to find the words/build up the courage.

The funny thing is that Pai basically ends up a squatter in Sky’s dorm. He ends up there all of the time. To hang out with Sky, to eat with Sky, even just to sleep (which Sky makes him do on the floor haha). At one point, he manages to get Sky to agree to go out on a date with him and they still end up back at Sky’s dorm after. This also leads to one of the best of their romantic scenes. Prapai tries to draw wind on a piece of paper, and later Sky’s hand, but can’t because he was a business major, not an art student. He doesn’t know anything about art (Prapai’s brother, even makes a comment to him about how Pai would skip art class when he was in high school). Sky ends up also drawing an image of wind on Pai’s hand and Pai literally traces an image of it and gets his brother to make him a lapel pin of it. Boy is so fucking corny that when Sky sees it for the first time, Pai tells him it’s so everyone will know who Pai belongs too. Corny, but effective I suppose because while playfully embarrassed, it is VERY clear how much Sky loves the idea. Boy even shows up at Sky’s school during the end ceremony for the freshmen week, just because he heard from Phayu that it was going to go on all night and he was worried about Sky getting sick again because he is still recovering (which to be fair, literally all of Sky’s friends are worried about the same thing).

Even the rare time he ends up actually going home, Pai still ends up at Sky’s dorm. Granted it was because he thought something bad was happening to Sky…well he wasn’t wrong, just not the kind of bad that Pai was expecting. Sky got an extra assignment that day that was due the next day and that he will definitely not finish in time if he doesn’t have help…so he calls Pai, who races over because he thinks Sky’s hurt or dying and yeah no, he’s neither of those things. It’s also the first time we see him get angry with Sky and even then, boy manages to keep an absolute lid on the whole thing. It’s easy to tell he’s angry, but he keeps calm and explains to Sky that Sky needs to explain better when he panicking and he calls Pai. You know, cause Pai is very glad that Sky would think to call him and will definitely come no matter what, but god damnit don’t scare him like that next time Sky! Haha. Healthy communication! That’s the way to do it. And of course because your boy is a simp, he still helps Sky’s complete his assignment and even drives him to school the next day.

According to Pai, the whole thing is worth it because Sky kisses him. It’s a really cute scene where Sky asks what he can do to make up for making Pai panic and Pai jokes that as punishment, Sky should kiss him. He very clearly does not expect Sky to do anything of the sort, which leads to an adorably shocked expression when Sky actually does kiss him, pictured below. Boy even manages to score some more points when Sky tells that a single kiss, especially from Sky, sounds like a shitty rewards for helping him. Pai tells him that different people put different value on stuff and Sky is priceless to him. 👍👍 You go Pai, you win over your boy with corny lines and earnestness.

All of this happens around episode 10, which along with episode 11 are two of my favourite episodes of the series. These two episodes are, for the most part, the two of them existing in their little love bubble, getting to know each other and learning how they fit together. We get to see them develop their communication skills with each other a lot more, though it definitely isn’t perfect. In episode 11, Sky makes his last ditch effort to drive Pai away…by making him clean the bathroom in Sky’s dorm XD. Despite not really knowing how to clean a bathroom, Pai does it anyway, and then, on Sky’s orders, tidies up Sky’s entire dorm room. Pai wants to prove that he committed to Sky. But honestly who wouldn’t be, Sky is fucking amazing. Pai is committed to showing Sky that he’s in for the long haul, that he isn’t going anywhere any time soon, no matter how much Sky tries to push him away. He wants to be around Sky for as long as Sky is willing to let him be. It’s to the point where he almost refuses Sky when Sky finally says he’s giving in and is willing to have sex with Pai.

Sky literally gets on top of him and takes off his shirt and ya boy Pai is still trying to explain that he doesn’t want just sex from Sky. He wants Sky’s everything. He gives in though and the two of them have sex (read make love) because of course they do. Pai might be a lot of things, but he is not going to turn down sex with Sky, ever, for any reason. If his Sky wants sexy times, sexy times they shall have. This is also the nc scene where my icon comes from. It’s my favourite shot in this entire show. Fort and Peat act their asses off and you can really feel about much they love each other even if Sky is not ready to admit that he loves Pai just yet…and all they do is stare into each other’s eyes. I’m an deceased, bury me now, I am so gone for them it’s insane. I have no rational mind left. Leave me in this second, to stare at them as they looking into each other’s eyes. So much love unspoken but both know it’s there, even if they aren’t ready to fully talk about it. (I am in a glass case of emotion!!)

Episode 12 is…a wild ride. There are happy times, blow jobs if you watch the extended box set version of the episode but there is also the final test of their relationship which is literally Pai’s fuckboy past coming back to haunt him and Sky trying desperately to detect himself from Pai as a result. It all in the end leads to the endgame of the episode, which is Sky (after breaking up with Pai earlier in the episode) going back to his dorm for the first time in days, to find Pai has somehow got in (my money is on Joy, the dorm manager and grade a gossip who has been enabling Pai since day one, though Pai says he ‘found a key’ 😒), waiting for him. Turns out, yeah he found Sky’s journal and ends up reading out loud.

It’s a scene that I love because it completely lays bare what Sky has been thinking the entire time. How much he loves Pai, even though he doesn’t have the courage to say it out loud. I also hate it because it is completely heart breaking as Sky spends so much of it desperate for Pai to stop reading it out loud because he doesn’t want to be reminded of what he was thinking when he dared to be happy with Pai. Poor boy believes himself to be so unloveable that he genuinely questions if there is even a way for him to get Pai to only pay attention to him, to not get bored of him, to only love him. Like he could almost believe Pai was before he saw Pai seemingly cuddling close to someone on a couch at a party they had gone too. It was definitely a bone head move on Pai’s part, to allow his old hook up to get that close to him, but he also spends the entire scene attempting to gently disengage the other boy from himself so he can get back to Sky. Pai might have a master’s degree but he is also dumb as hell sometimes and is often nice to a fault and doesn’t want to be rude to the other boy. But remember, Sky is very traumatized little bumblebee who jumps to conclusions because his trauma takes over…trauma Pai still doesn’t even know he has!!! (Seriously, at this point the only thing Pai knows is that Sky dated someone in high school, that that boy is responsible for the nipple piercing that Sky no longer has in and that the relationship between Sky and his ex ended badly…that’s it!) (Side note, Pai is just obsessed with Sky’s nipples. This never goes away, not that Sky seems to have much of a problem with it beyond token protests lol).

This is also their “I love you” scene. After he finished reading the journal, Pai tells Sky that he loves him, after faking him out by saying he doesn’t like him anymore. (Seriously what is it with Pai and Phayu. Both used this tactic when telling Sky and Rain that they liked him. Rain almost cries, Sky actually cries.) Despite it all, I can’t get too mad at Pai for this. Again, Pai is many things, but his patients is not infinite and a little petty revenge when he’s still angry enough to say it, well I get that. After he confesses, he asks Sky how Sky feels about him, to which Sky, still kind of sobbing, though in relief at this point I think, admits he is also in love with Pai. Such a happy scene but even then, it still does break my heart a little as Sky also begs Pai not to leave him. Pai answers that he never will, and we as the audience definitely knows that’s true but it is still sad to hear Sky say it. Pai is a simp, there is no other word for him. Boy exists only to love Sky at this point…well he also works for his dad’s company and loves motorcycle racing but really that’s all secondary to just how much he wants to shower love and affection on Sky.

The two talk it out. Love to see them engaging in that healthy honest communication (takes notes Kim!). Sky might not be over his trauma, but even if Pai doesn’t know about it to reassure him and help him tackle it head on, Sky knows that he’ll be able to get through it as long as he has Pai and as long as he knows Pai is committed to him and loves him. Pai is never not going to be committed to you Sky, you have nothing to worry about.

We even get a shining example in episode 13 when after having another nightmare, Sky calls Pai and asks if he can come over. Pai literally drops everything (he was racing that night and if I recall correctly, doesn’t do a race because of Sky’s call. Not a big deal, but it definitely shocks Phayu) and races over (hehe). This show actually has one of the only real aftercare scenes I can remember seeing in a bl, as Pai help Sky to clean up after they have sex. Score another point for Pai over the asshole ex, as the ex never did this for Sky ever and always made him do it himself.

Look at the smile on those boys faces! They are so blissfully in love, it’s rotting my teeth as we speak! Of course this means that something else has to come in a fuck shit up and boy does the asshole ex ever fuck shit up. The first time Sky wants to go an watch Pai race, he runs into the asshole ex (who’s name is technically Gun, but I’m sticking with asshole ex). We get lots of flashbacks about their relationship and we get the full picture and turns out that not only is the ex an asshole, he also could be considered a groomer…As he was a fully grown ass man when they met, while Sky was 15-16. I think the asshole ex is about the same age as Pai and Phayu. The ages in this whole show are funny but if we assume that Pai is about 24-25 in present, than the asshole ex can’t be older than that, but is likely around the same age…which means he was at least 21-22 to Sky’s 15-16 when they ‘dated’. (The ages in this show really are fucky. We know Rain is 19 at the beginning of the series, but we never find out if Sky is older or younger than Rain. I’m inclined to say older but who the hell knows but they were likely born the same year. That puts Sky at 19, but also time has pasted since the start of the series, and they’re in their second year of uni now but no birthdays have been mentioned so ahhhhh! This is also one of those times we can’t use the actors ages as Fort, despite playing the older Pai was 21 when they filmed this series while Peat, playing Sky, was 25).

Long story short, the asshole ex all but kidnaps Sky. He comes up with an extremely convoluted plan to get Sky away from Pai, by tricking Rain into believe Pai is asking him via security guard, to take Sky back to his condo as Sky was saying he wasn’t feeling well (which after seeing the asshole ex, I would have said the same thing). Rain goes back to the race and Pai, being the absolutely amazing attentive boyfriend he is, realizes that someone lied to Rain in an effort to get Sky alone and together with Phayu and Rain, races to condo to save Sky.

There is a heavy trigger warning for abuse/IPV and sexual assault in this episode. While what happens in episode 8 is mild and could be considered either way depending on how you interpret Pai’s intentions and Sky’s reaction/actions, there is no such confusion with this episode. The ex gets Sky alone with the express purpose of fucking with him and assaulting him because he really is just that horrible of a person. Despite saying he “threw Sky away because he was bored of him” he still wants to continue to ruin Sky’s life because Sky finally felt safe enough to begin the long process of moving on. There isn’t any actual assault, the weather boys manage to get there before anything happens and stop him. With Pai almost beating the asshole ex to death. The only reason he doesn’t it because Phayu begs him not too. (You should have just done it Pai, the fucker deserves it.) There is however a flashback where we see the beginning of when the asshole ex’s friends (yes plural) assault Sky while asshole ex watched. It is difficult to watch, so proceed with caution.

Sky has gone kind of catatonic and Pai is the one who manages to get him to respond. He also takes Sky home, like to his family home, not to Sky’s dorm, where Sky is finally able to be honest with Pai about what happened to him. It’s a heart break but also heart warming scene. Listening to Sky explain in his own words what happened is heart breaking (like I cried the first time I watched this scene), but Pai’s response is heartwarming. Sky spends a lot of time insult himself and I absolutely love that Pai never tries to tell him he’s wrong. Like Pai knows Sky is wrong about the way he sees himself. He knows Sky isn’t broken or trash or any other awful thing he might call himself, but Pai also knows that just saying “no Sky you’re wrong, you are not those things” isn’t going to help in that moment. Sky will not respond well to being told that. So instead he is quiet and he listens. Really listens and affirms that he is there for Sky, that he isn’t going anywhere, that Pai loves him and Sky can love Pai. That Pai is the only one who gets to have Sky while they are together. (Another trauma by the asshole ex is that the ex tells Sky, right before he’s about to be sexually assaulted, is that he is bored of Sky and so he is letting his friends have his now broken toy…I really hate this man so much. Side note though, the actor who plays the asshole ex does such a good job. I really want to see him in more things, though hopefully not in a villainous role this time haha).

It’s a really amazing scene and once again Fort and Peat (especially Peat) brings their absolute a game. You really feel for Sky. Like I always wanted Sky to have nice things the whole time, for him to be able to move on, but after that scene. It increases tenfold, especially when you realize that while Sky’s life is not magically going to get better, he is not going to just wake up tomorrow and not be traumatized, he is going to be able to move forward. He finally has the support, space and feeling of safety he needs to truly be able to move on, not just for Pai or his father or his friends, but for himself. He wants to get better for himself and Pai is committed to making sure he is there every step of the way. Pai is committed to making sure that Sky knows that “the wind will always protect the sky” (not sure if that’s the direct quote from the show, but I’m pretty sure it’s pretty close).

(Actually footage of me approximately 30 seconds into episode 8.)

I really honestly love both couples in this series, but something about PrapaiSky has me in a chokehold. The growth the two of them have, not just personal growth but the growth of their relationship. They go from being this couple where one doesn’t know if he actually even wants to have sex with the other/wants to have him around/feeling like he needs to push him away to protect himself and the other is pushy and only barely respects the others boundary to a couple that understands each other and are there for each other. They figure out how to communicate with each other in a healthy way. They learn about each other, to respect each other. They confide in each other. While PhayuRain seems to be aware of some details of Sky’s past in the special episode, I definitely get the feeling that Sky never really tells them the whole truth about what happened to him. They know the broad strokes but nothing in detail while means that for better or worse, the only person Sky ever tells everything too is Pai. I know that Sky will have the courage one day to tell his father, and probably Rain as well, but that day hasn’t happened yet.

Prapai actually does a pre-proposal to Sky in the special episode. Telling him that he wants to marry Sky one day, really marry him. Pai really hopes that same sex marriage will be legalized in Thailand soon because he wants to be married to Sky in the eyes of the law too. Partly to get married but also partly to make sure he can continue to take care of Sky in the future, the way any legally married couple can. Pai also tells Sky that he is completely willing to wait until Sky is ready. Whether it’s after Sky graduates from school, or after he gets his first job or builds his first house, he doesn’t know, but when Sky is ready, he’s going to proposal for real. The thing that endears me to it even more, is that Sky even asks what will happen if he’s never ready. Pai just tells him that that’s okay because he’s going to take care of Sky forever.

Pai makes it clear from day one that he wants to be with Sky. By his own admission, it was mostly about sex at first. Sky was that one night stand that he couldn’t forget, but Pai realizes very quickly that he doesn’t just want sex from Sky. He wants anything and everything that Sky is willing to give him. It might take Sky a little while longer to really admit that he feels the same, but he does get there.

Pai is, in my opinion, in a lot of ways, the perfect match for Sky. He is pushy, but Sky needs someone who is pushy sometimes, to force him to confront things he knows he needs too, but would rather ignore. He needs someone who reminds him to take care of himself, to make sure he eats when he’s working and sleeps when he’s tired, even if he is in a time crunch for an assignment. Sky needs someone who will occasionally worship the ground he walks on, to remind him that the things he tells himself in the darkest parts of his mind aren’t true. That he has people who love him. That Pai loves him unconditionally and will not hesitate to show him.

Sky conversely is also perfect for Pai. Pai needs someone who is willing to call him out, who is doesn’t put up with his bullshit but can also be equally as playful and daring as he is. (I’m looking at you board room sex from the special episode and the implication that Sky planned and prepped for the whole thing.) Pai needs someone who forces him to mature a lot, to develop the kind of good communication skills you need if you want a working relationship. Pai needs someone to worship. He needs someone who will take charge occasionally, someone who knows who Pai is and knows how to interact with him better than he knows himself.

I am so not normal about PrapaiSky haha. They are just so good and while they may not be everyone’s cup of tea (and that’s okay) they definitely are mine. Both Fort and Peat do such a good job with these characters and are able to make me believe in these two in a way I don’t think other actors could. I’m going to be rewatching Love In The Air for a long time, and obsessing over PrapaiSky for equally as well haha, and I’m definitely okay with that

#captain-effy #love in the air #prapaisky #skyprapai #fortpeat #is this meta? #not probably not #it is however #long #so i apologize in advance #i suppose the tldr is #these two make me feel all the emotions #i love their journey #it’s not perfect #they’re not perfect #but they mean something special to me #so thank you letting me ramble on at you #i hope i managed to convince you to watch it #phayurain is also equally entertaining so definitely check them out too if you do #also if you have it #try watching it on viki #the subs are better/more accurate #i think anyway #cap answers asks #cap speaks

[loungemermaid]

I am here to speak truth to power. Effie Trinket is autistic.

Yeah lots of people agree now that Katniss is autistic, and her and Haymitch are similar so the case can be made for him as well.

But Effie is too.

Her Capitol accent is stronger, more clipped, and her “big big day” is probably echolalia (side note, Katniss “mocking” the Capitol accent is her using echolalia)

She loses it if they get off schedule. Truly inconsolable sometimes if the schedule goes awry.

Manners are Extremely Important, probably because she made the effort to study them inside and out so she wouldn’t mess them up.

She mixes up metaphors, which might mean that she doesn’t understand them well to begin with (“coal into pearls”)

She is never seen with her natural hair out. Maybe that’s a sensory thing? And she just doesn’t want to cut it? Maybe she just can’t style her hair the way she wants it to look and needs it to be perfect, because if she doesn’t look perfect she’s broken the Rules.

Rules are very important to her, as well as stations. She gets mad when Katniss tries to help Darius clean up because it’s not her job

This part might just be a result of Capitol brainwashing, but she’s accidentally very rude/says the wrong things.(bringing up the previous tributes’ bad table manners, saying she might get bumped up to a better district)

Her special interest is architecture! She goes to look at the Justice Building in Eleven to see how it’s built and says she’s something of an expert. (Everyone but Portia blows her off for this, page 69 in the hardcover first edition of CF((nice)).)

Conclusion: Peeta is the emotional support allistic of the group. (Don’t think he counts as full on neurotypical after MJ but he’s not autistic.)

#text #mer.txt #effie trinket #hunger games meta #thg trilogy #thg meta

[antoine-triplett]

What's your opinons about Effie Trinket characterization :

In the books :

In the movies :

Do you think Effie was oblivious about her privilege?

Do you like Elizabeth Banks portrayal of Effie?

Thank you :)

@curiousnonny

In the movies she definitely becomes more aware of her privilege, but in the books it’s unclear. She’s barely in the last one besides a little bit at the end where Katniss notes that she’s still alive, though less lively looking, so we can assume the rebellion was tough on her, but she didn’t actively do much to help the cause. Katniss basically laughs at the idea of her being a rebel, even after everything. She was imprisoned but made it out in much, much better shape than everyone else who was in a similar position with any kind of connection to Katniss. Effie spends most of the books complaining and being tone deaf and though she seems to mean well most of the time, I do wonder if she would have supported the rebellion at all without a personal connection to Katniss and Peeta. Part of me doubts it.

Elizabeth Banks is a charismatic actress and I think she captured the over-the-top mannerisms Effie is supposed to have, but I wish they had made Effie less likeable like she is in the books. In the last two movies, she essentially takes the place of the prep team from the books, but its very watered down (ie Plutarch makes a “joke” in the movie about how Effie’s not a POW, when in the books the rebels actually have the prep team imprisoned in horrible conditions; Effie complains about missing coffee but it’s immediately undercut by a tender speech about Cinna, etc.). Her character change feels after-school-specialy in a way that’s kind of boring and, like many other changes from the books to the movies, removes some of the social and political nuance from the story.

#effie trinket #jessie speaks #curiousnonny #thg meta

[mathgirl24]

What's your opinons about Effie Trinket characterization :

In the books :

In the movies :

Do you think Effie was oblivious about her privilege?

Do you like Elizabeth Banks portrayal of Effie?

Thank you :)

@curiousnonny

Effie is quite different to me between the books and the movies. Movie Effie is much more relatable and more empathetic. Book Effie seemed much more settled into her privilege and her feeling of superiority. Reading the books, I never had any sympathy at all for Effie. She never seemed to have much depth to me. But Elizabeth Banks' portrayal as well as the change in the plot made her much more sympathetic to the audience.

*Controversial opinion alert* Neither version of Effie should ever be shipped with Haymitch. Just a hard no.

#thg meta #effie trinket

[deepdonutkid]

What's your opinons about Effie Trinket characterization :

In the books :

In the movies :

Do you think Effie was oblivious about her privilege?

Do you like Elizabeth Banks portrayal of Effie?

Thank you :)

@curiousnonny

Okay, it took me quite a while to answer this one, because I kept postponing it. I'm sorry 😅 hehe, my life is a mess

But I loved the question tho!

I don't have strong feelings about book! Effie, but I would say, she does bring some light hearted moments to the story, which wouldn't happened with any other character. It's also funny, that Effie being older than Katniss, it's always portrait as her being more naive and a bit silly. Which shows the big impact our upbringing has on our critical thinking skills.

Effie seems to lack it, due to her being a Capitolite. And I myself know a few people just like this. They have been born rich and seem to not think about anything that serious. Just lately, I have been introduced to a group of guys in their mid-20s, who actually believe having a dialog in your own head makes your crazy.

Everyone has met a Effie in their life at some point. A person that makes you think: "How did this human survive on their own?" And somehow they just did.

Due to Katniss' narrative, we rarely see Effie accomplish something other than bringing Katniss and Peeta from A to B on time. There is one other time and it's only mentioned from Effie herself, where she is actively helping Katniss and Peeta. She, just like Haymitch, was talking to the sponsors, since there was no second victor from 12 at that time.

I like to imagine her being dead serious then, even if she makes playful little jokes to charm the sponsors. Now she had two tributes she cared about and I think she really tried her best helping them in every way possible.

This shows that you don't have to be smart like Haymitch or eloquent like Peeta or strong like Katniss to be part of the team. You just have to put in effort... which almost sounds like Effie.

Sometimes I feel like, book! Effie didn't get enough scenes with Katniss, because I would have loved to see more of her. And the movies actually did it quite well. I would even dare to say, that Effie was one of the aspects of the story, whose didn't got worse in the adaptation.

Elizabeth Banks did such a great job at this and I think she is the reason people love Effie so much. (Imagine movie! Effie and weird Barbie- both played by Elizabeth Banks- would meet)

And I would say, Effie was oblivious about her privilege up to the point, where the quell was announced. And if she wasn't aware by then, she definitely was after the quell ended prematurely.

Okay, thanks for the question! Keep them coming and I try to answer faster q.q

#effie trinket #the hunger games trilogy #thg meta #the hunger games #elizabeth banks

[lordeasriel]

I had this thought last night but couldn't elaborate on it because it was very late and I had to go to work this morning. HOWEVER--

Truth is: I think Lyra and Pan are better off separated.

Heresy! I know, but listen: I think that even if they had never separated in TAS, I still think TSC events would have happened, with minor changes to account for them not being separated. I think Pan would still have walked away on Lyra, he was quite miserable with their situation and so was she, and we learn throughout TSC that some people are just very unhappy to the point they abandon their daemons and vice-versa. And they were unhappy because, over time, Lyra stops being subjected to Pan's will and starts becoming more independent of him.

If we go back to NL, we can see how much they clash with each other! They rarely agree with each other and when they do, we're talking about very strong core values that they share. And yes, as time goes by, they change places and opinions - Pan becomes more careless and impulsive, while Lyra becomes cautious and fearful and uncertain - and I think this could be because Pan tries really hard to connect with Lyra by becoming more like she used to be (and, obviously, it doesn't work because her wounds run much deeper than just that).

For Pan, it must be very difficult to see Lyra grow more and more detached from him and he tries to fight this inevitable experience. He goes about all the wrong ways of trying to mend their relationship: he puts all the blame on Lyra's shoulders, he refuses to accept any viewpoints other than his own, he doesn't let Lyra process her feelings and he feels attacked whenever she has an attitude he dislikes. Pan is not ready for Lyra to grow up, and because it is such a slow process, and she is so hurt from her past, that for him it is a very slow-motion torture session.

So, while I think separating added to their griefs, I think ultimately Lyra and Pan were bound to have a big fight where one would storm off on the other and sever their bond. They were always quite different from each other and their relationship always suffered from their different views; the difference is that child! Lyra was far more susceptible to Pan, though she argued more often, whereas adult! Lyra is exhausted by her own depression, and therefore she refuses any council he offers, which frustrates him and invalidates him.

Thus, I think their relationship can only grow if they remain separated for a time. Because the severed bond allowed them to actually see each other independently and handle the world in independent ways too, making Lyra see Pan's views as valid as time goes by in her journey during TSC.

#meta by effie #hdm meta: lyra belacqua #hdm meta: pantalaimon #hdm meta: daemons #dont mind me i have thoughts and i suck at voicing them

[ellanainthetardis]

helloooooo!!!! i just wanted to know what is your favorite effie moments? being from the books or the movies… thank you!

Hands down the tokens. I don't understand how anyone can think Effie is naive or blind when there are the tokens to take into account. It's not just a silly team thing, we're talking about a woman who, to get where she is, must have a very keen appreciation of PR. She knows what she's doing with those tokens, she knows it's a declaration of intent of sort. She, Haymitch, Peeta and Katniss are a team, she's throwing her whole lot with them when it would be safer to keep a low profile. That token thing for Effie's character, I think is pivotal.

And I just love that she gives Haymitch the ugliest one XD

#ask #anon #meta #effie trinket #sweetheart

[saintsenara]

opinions on bill/fleur/draco, remus/molly, and a little gross, but in my opinion, a god-tier, superior ship- luna/garrick ollivander

i am absolutely shrieking at these, pal - not least because it's absolutely beautiful [i think...?] to find another person suffering from the lollivander delirium.

[or it's a sign that hell will never be in want of sinners to fill it...]

fleur delacour/draco malfoy/bill weasley

bill and fleur are demonstrably a hot pairing, and i am sincerely invested in the combined power of them overawing draco, who is canonically weak-willed and annoying and would, i think, rather enjoy being told that in a safe and consensual environment.

fleur's brandishing a riding crop and telling him to stop pretending to be the sexiest blonde in the country when he isn't even the sexiest one in the house. bill's demanding a lifetime of service [wink wink] in exchange for the whole "letting greyback into hogwarts" thing.

they're very happy.

remus lupin/molly weasley

i'm actually very taken with this one, on the basis of @whinlatter's excellent meta on lupin and molly's canonical relationship. as she notes, molly is the person who is there most for lupin in the period from the end of goblet of fire onwards - and lupin is someone whose life has been so unstable and so devoid of [above all] domestic comfort that molly's provision of exactly that is something which clearly means a tremendous amount to him.

i am on the record - as any good tomarry girly must be - that the series really overlooks the value of love-as-comfort in its prioritising of love-as-sacrifice, and that the transformational power of being warm and well-fed and appreciated is something which deserves more respect as a concept in fics.

molly being able to offer this to lupin really has the potential to be something quite beautiful - not, perhaps something epic and exciting, but something which is love nonetheless.

and, of course, if you're less inclined to sincerity/prefer your beauty laced through with mischief, you can just make it a sort of mammy-kink thing. slay.

luna lovegood/garrick ollivander

the three of us who back this ship are eating good!

my justification for it - as i've said here - is that i think luna's whole... vibe works best in ships which pair her with a condescending older man, in a trope used with great effect throughout the western literary tradition.

my belief is that luna and her eventual canon husband have a friedrich bhaer/jo march meets bella baxter/duncan wedderburn flavour, but i also think you can take it sadder and more messed up in a sort of maxim-and-the-second-mrs-dewinter or effi briest/baron innstetten way - and have her patronised to by and in thrall of an older man who has taken advantage of her transparent naiveté...

ollivander is a really interesting character because - as harry notes in philosopher's stone - of his slightly voldemort-ish attitude towards magic: that is, the idea that the character of magic [i.e. whether it is dark or not] is of secondary important to the power of the person performing the magic. i can definitely see him using luna's more spacey beliefs as a springboard for him to convince her of this worldview...

#asks answered #asenora's opinions on ships #unhinged and deranged ships

[silvyysthings]

The fact that armie and his team are asking meta for the deleted messages vs effie who refuses to get her SS verified and harassed anyone who insinuate that they are fake says a lot.

Also the dude who was presented by 🦎 as a witness, how desperately pathetic for her to include someone who cant even recollect anything of his alleged "abuse"? And why as a witness for the child custody and not as a plaintiff for a SA case instead? Same goes for all her "witness".

For me all these women are pure garbage , simply garbage .

Armie has been the victim of the most absurd accusations in recent years ever, and although I respect his thoughts for not wanting to continue given the trauma he has suffered over the years, I hope they all pay for what they have done

#womenlietoo

#armie hammer #anon ask

[etrinkett]

nosta the way you write effie (and every muse you touch) is soooooo on point it’s insane. plus your analysis and metas??????? 10/10 i’m in love 🥰

HOW´S MY PORTRAYAL?

SFJS mavis you're an absolute legend, i am honored !!!! tysm !!! @70th

#annie defense squad 2024

[akajustmerry]

who would you cast in a hunger games tv series 👀

oooooooh, well, i reckon all the characters under 18 should be played by actors the same age. one of the reasons i think the movie doesn't hit as hard is because the actors are so much older than the characters are meant to be. so, i think age-accurate and ethnicity-accurate casting would be great and new fresh faces works even better. Katniss absolutely should be played by someone Native and so should Gale and Haymitch because they're from the Seam. the only major cast choice i have in my head for any of the adult characters is kj apa or manny jacinto for Finnick because on a meta-level....oh, man. i also would love jessica chastain for effie because i am not a huge fan of Elizabeth Banks. idk its hard because i do like a lot of the casting for the films (just not the whitewashed/bad colourblind casting) so i'd have to think. i reckon willem dafoe would be a fucking terrifying president snow. he'd have SO much fun. i'd keep stanley tucci as caesar flickerman because he's so fucking good. his caeser flickerman laugh is always imitated in my house 😂

#anon

[the-fall-of-armie-hammer]

Effie is on fire and refusing to accept this bullshit PR interview without a fight. She's posting the FB convos that he claims META won't allow him to access on her Twitter feed. She leads with this one:

ARMIE: "But I think I am a problem for society now…only have rape on the brain."

LMAO at his lame ass comment "If I still had these messages, I would have been able to put this to bed in .5 seconds."

Yeah right. Clearly he will never post his side of the exchange because he cannot deny he said those things.

He is burnt toast.

Also -- Billy Bush is going to interview the "journalist"? Will he ask if Armie grabbed anyone's p*ssy? Shades of Trumpy.

Why is this man allowed to just walk around as if he has done nothing??? Fuck. Him.

#armie hammer