#like. the only thing the Church ''does'' against Claude is... be willing to take in minor noble houses

[butwhatifidothis]

Ngl, I think "Claude that kills" is not inherently in and of itself uninteresting or bad. It is kinda basic as a "shocking character twist," but I could in some ways buy Claude being forced to "make hard decisions like these" in times where his foe absolutely refuses to back down and it being more prominent in Hopes - the guy might've offered mercy to Eddie, but she refuses and dies (by Byleth's hand, but still), and kills both the Death Knight and Hubert (plus Ladislava and Randolph) without really pausing.

...but they just... don't explore anything of that idea to make it work in Hopes. He's forced to kill Shahid when Shahid makes it clear he won't stop until he's dead, then... he aligns with Eddie (and while he pays lip service to not trusting her, he then proceeds to parrot her words and become Ede-lite...), callously abandons an ally to die just to make a fight easier (and then this is used to make him learn the lesson that he should totally trust and help Eddie in the future), and enflames a border conflict (which *should* really be a point he'd hesitate over, but naaaah...) just to make his invasion easier...

Like, I could buy a "Claude becomes more willing to kill to protect those he cares about," its a tad lame but sure, but... there's just nothing to explain why he would just become a much worse person in ways that don't make sense to his character. Or, put another way, "morally ambiguous Claude" is fine... But that character SHOULD still be Claude, not "Eddie but worse because we really whitewashed her this game."

Well, there's also to keep in mind that at least with Hubert, upon receiving his letter Claude does lament on being unable to talk with him due to Hubert's stubbornness, after admitting that Hubert might have been a better man than he gave him credit for due to said letter. And however much sense it makes for him to care this much about a classmate he barely knew, he did still get saddened over having to outright kill Edelgard. He was willing to kill them, but only because they were unwilling to compromise and they were so committed to inflicting violence - if he had it his way it would've never come to this.

But, yeah, I do see what you mean otherwise lmao - I didn't mean to say that there's no instance at all where Claude becoming more willing to kill is a bad thing. It's somewhat predictable, but it is one way to get a new experience from Claude for the player to appreciate. But here, it's just all over the place.

It's bad for Claude to sacrifice people who barely a week ago were trying to murder him and his friends and his people so that his own people get out a battle safely. He's throwing away lives, he's no better than nobles who see mercs as disposable, he's broken the GD's trust in him! Invading Faerghus? Bringing in Sreng? Those innocent lives that Claude actually threw away? That's fine - doesn't have to get chewed out for that! People might can mumble about being uncomfy about it in camp, but no more criticisms to Claude's face - not bad enough for that, unlike with Randolph which was obviously worse! /s

It's, like, backwards pretty much. I say that the Randolph Sacrifice is more about him breaking the GD's trust in him than it is about the sacrificing thing even though the scene is mostly about Claude being wrong to sacrifice lives... because that's the lesson that makes more sense to take from it in the long run. It's makes no sense for "sacrificing lives in needless conflict" to be the main cause for concern and upset from the GD regarding Claude's actions, when he goes on to sacrifice way more lives in way more pointless conflicts and they barely give a shit about it. The Sreng shit is fuckin' laughably and infinitely more serious than letting Randolph die, and yet they do not care nearly as much about the former as they do the latter.

And, like, the supposed catalyst for this change in Claude's demeanor is killing Shahid. The guy who was trying to violently conquer Fodlan and was trying to kill Claude in order to do so. So, like... instead of Claude going after Edelgard with this newfound violence - you know, the person who is trying to violently conquer Fodlan and tried to kill him in order to do so - instead he... goes after the Kingdom and Church. Almost completely ignoring the Empire, save for the one thing he does against it... which is the one thing he is actually criticized for doing in his route.

So instead of Claude continuing the fight he had with Edelgard - that fight he was doing pretty damn well in before he Becomes Violence - Claude just mindlessly believes her when she says that Church Bad and focuses all of his giga violence onto it. Isn't it convenient for Edelgard, that Claude had this drastic change in character that pretty much exclusively benefits her? Even with her behaving exactly like the supposed catalyst for Claude's violence, nothing happens to her save for a few generals dying - she even gets her ass saved from the hot water she threw herself in by Claude despite him being more inclined to violent/callous methods of winning now and despite her death allowing for Leicester (and Fodlan) getting peace, lucky lucky!

It's just, like, so obvious that Claude was written to service Edelgard? Like, very, very obvious. Damn near everything he does in GW's Part 2 does nothing to help him and everything to help Edelgard. This isn't a story about how Claude gradually grows more violent before becoming a better version of himself - like I said, he just becomes violent, stays violent, and stagnates completely. This is just the writers making it to where Edelgard can get what she wants at the expense of a group of characters they clearly did not care for

#ask #anon #clyde discourse #fire emblem warrior: three hopes spoilers #fire emblem warriors three hopes spoilers #like. the only thing the Church ''does'' against Claude is... be willing to take in minor noble houses #that INDEPENDENTLY chose to leave the Federation. since Claude's way of ruling made them toothless #that's it. it's not nearly enough to justify what Claude does to them #and nothing else in the story properly explains Claude's decisions or methods or conclusions #and why they differ SO drastically from his 3H counterpart #there IS a way to do that. it'd inevitably take away a charm to Claude's character but it DOES still exist #but that is DAMN sure not what Hopes did lmao not by a long shot

[fantasyinvader]

Last night's post didn't quite sit well with me. Something seemed to be missing, and as it was shaking around in my head today it clicked into place with something else. And then, it began clicking with more stuff, to the point it explains some of the weak parts of the writing such as the recruitment and no one ever challenging Edelgard.

I'm going to go over this again. The basis of this was the Crest of Flames and who bears in the game. We have Nemesis, Edelgard and Byleth all having it, alongside it's origin Sothis. The thing was how Nemesis had people believing he was a hero despite historical texts making him out to be a tyrant.

“Under the tyranny of ruthless disorder, the people endured a long period of suffering. The vile Nemesis, who proclaimed himself the King of Liberation, delighted in war and bloodshed. Rather than rebelling against his persecution, the people of Fódlan fell to his depths in a mad scramble to attain power through murder and theft.” The History of Fodlan Part 1.

Adding to this is Seteth's own claim against Edelgard following taking the Bridge. However, his statement is subject to localization changes.

Seteth: It is clear that Edelgard is not some cruel emperor who holds her people in a vice-like grip. There is something more driving our foes.

This line is pretty consistent with translations into European languages, but translating the Japanese, Chinese and Korean all reveal that something was added to it. Their lines are more “Edelgard isn't just/ is more than a tyrannical Emperor...” It does point to how there seems to be something else at play with her troops fighting to the death and unwilling to retreat. The lines saying she isn't cruel or ruling with an iron fist are added. And the thing I connected it to was how before taking the Bridge wegot a letter from Claude, saying that there was something about Byleth that made him trust them.

Claude's Letter: I don't know exactly why, but I feel that I can trust you. So I'm going to do just that. To that end, I propose an exchange.

Claude's symbolism points to his Poison/Flame being aversion or hatred. As he makes out in his supports, he's adverse to religion and is shown to blame the Church for keeping Fodlan isolated resulting in his outsider status. He's not willing to fight with the Church here, won't ask them to join him at Gronder and doesn't leave the Alliance and Failnaught in their care after he gets his ass kicked, but he is willing to create a diversion for them so that they may take the Bridge in order to march on the Empire (ironically, if he had joined them the Church wouldn't have suffered the same level of casualties, being able to join him at Gronder and preventing the Alliance army falling to pieces. On top of that, considering Dimitri sent an envoy seeking support at well, if Claude had done this we would have ended up with Church, Alliance and Kingdom united at Gronder. But then again, if Dimitri had waited than chances are the Empire would have steamrolled the Alliance and marched on Garreg Mach due to the lack of chaos there... really shows how important the three-way clash at Gronder really is. Byleth is only able to defeat Edelgard because Dimitri and Claude acted on their respective poisons/flames of ignorance/delusion and hatred/aversion.). Yet despite this, in SS where he never really interacted much with Byleth but is still willing to help them out despite his neutral stance (though Edelgard has begun attacking the Alliance so that neutral stance doesn't hold up much.

Alois Part 1 Death Card: Disappeared after the battle of Garreg Mach, in an engagement between Imperial and Alliance forces.

Likewise, Hopes has Edelgard imply that her attraction to Byleth is a result of their Crests interacting. So the main take-away here was that the Crest of Flames seems to attract people to it's bearers. Nemesis was a tyrant, yet people still viewed him as a hero following his death. The people of the Empire are against the war, yet we got Seteth's above observation that they refuse to surrender or fall back. And then we have Byleth.

Attraction does seem to be a fitting word for it. The third poison/flame is greed or attachment, while the Japanese name for Crimson Flower is Safflower. Safflowers, a type of thistle and therefore a far cry from a red rose meaning love (thanks again translators), symbolize attraction and say that the giver is trying to ensnare a relationship or good luck. You could also argue that by naming the route Safflower, the developers make it an attractive path of thorns and therefore it's a sinful route.

I argued that when you looked at those unable to be recruited, it seems to suggest that the influence of the Crest of Flames does not seem to override free will. Dedue's loyalty to Dimitri prevents him from joing Byleth outside of AM, even when he survives storming the palace with them, and you can't do much with Gilbert outside of that route either. Catherine, Seteth and Cyril won't go against Rhea, while Flayn will abandon the Black Eagles if they go Flower. Hilda notices something is up with Edelgard during the school year and refuses to join her as well. Claude and Dimitri won't join you in Silver Snow for already explained reasons, while Edelgard breaks her attachment to Byleth and the Academy to go through with her plan. Hubert won't leave Edelgard and her Crest of Flames' side, while Jertiza can't be recruited in the main game (but his relationship with Mercedes allows him to do so in Azure Gleam. As his mental status hasn't deteriorated quite as much at that point). Byleth themself is pointed towards Edelgard, and will only join her due to having enough of a support level with her and on top of that abandoning their class for a week at her request. Even then, Byleth can still opt to not join her.

But here's what clicked for me today. Remember that FEH comic where Edelgard went looking for “pawns?” What was her criteria again? “I need people easy to manipulate, with low sense of self...” and abandons the plan when she deems it too much trouble after seeing that the Fallen units have too strong-willed. Strong-willed, I feel is the point here.

It takes a strong-will to ignore the attraction to the Crest of Flames, and the fact that Edelgard seems to recognize this shows she banks on this. All the people who fight for her do so because they're weak-willed.

Let's go back to Nemesis for a second. Notice the use of the word “persecution,” yet the document acts like rebelling against him considering the disorder, war and bloodshed of his rule as it would be the most sensible course of action. Instead, the people followed his example which in turn led to Emperor Wilhelm starting the War of Heroes, intent on unifying the continent, stopping this madness, and crushing clans that sought to increase their own power and instead installed a meritocracy based around, according to the Hanneman/Dorothea support (though again, altered in the translation to make the following Hanneman's own definition of merit rather than the ideals he sought to embody), knowledge and protecting the people. What's more, when we fight Nemesis Claude has this line when fighting an Elite (his ancestor).

Claude: Hey... Can you speak?

Reigan: ...

Claude: Just puppets controlled by Nemesis... Well, they're the strongest puppets I've ever known.

That last map is know as "For the Freedom of Fodlan."

Then we look at Edelgard. We know she's targeting the faith, but a NPC in Flower reveals that in doing so has created unrest within the Empire. A line removed from the translation mentions an “information campaign,” but that's not the end of it. Ferdinand and Lysithea's Paralogue also reveals people are against the war but being conscripted in order to fight...and executed if they resist.

Lysithea: Correct. And he (Arundel) imposed even heavier taxes on the people, squeezing them painfully dry. The people were conscripted for duty. Any who opposed were killed on the spot.

Then look at Edelgard's support with Balthus in Hopes, where she lays out her goals.

Edelgard: I've set out to unite all of Fodlan. I've started a war over it. That means destroying any who oppose me and protecting all who stand with me. If you believe in me and share my ideals, I will never abandon you.

So, Edelgard is willing to destroy any who oppose her, only protecting those who believe in her and support the ideals she, in her own words, is hopelessly committed to. We have Hubert killing those who oppose her in his endings, with his Shamir ending mentioning rebellions against Edelgard being put down from the shadows. Imperial soldiers kill all that don't surrender. We know the people are conscripted to fight, executed in at least two regions (Hymr and Arundel) if they resist, and the commoners are oppressed according to an Edelgard-aligned Shez. Yet people still fight for her, unwilling to call her out or back down.

Edelgard is linked to the idea of hegemony, which means something (such as a political state) having dominant influence or authority over others according to Merriam-Webster. Dominant influence, and Edelgard is looking for people who are “easy to manipulate, with a low sense of self” while being turned off by those too strong-willed. She shares the same Crest with Nemesis, whose followers are mindless puppets in Verdant Wind's last map. They both are characterized as oppressive tyrants, persecuting the people and pushing the remaining people into following their beliefs. We even have some starting units say in Scarlet Blaze that Edelgard asked them to join and they said yes without thinking.

Dorothea to an Edelgard-aligned Ferdinand: Oh, Ferdie. You opposed Edie for so long... I had real hopes for you, you know? Now you're following her. Is that your duty as a noble? Follow your master when they say to heel?

We see characters aligned with Edelgard acting in ways that goes against who they were in White Clouds. Ferdinand above is one such example, ditto stuff like Petra saying she is the will of the Emperor. Edelgard herself makes opposing her a choice her enemies made.

Edelgard: This has nothing to do with where you were born. That we are fighting now is only a result of the choices you've made. So I'm going to give that the response it deserves. I will crush you with everything I have!

Edelgard seeks the weak-willed, and crushes those who oppose her. See what I'm getting at here? The Crest of Flames Edelgard bares doesn't just attract people to her, it manipulates them unless they have a strong enough will. Nemesis was the same. This is likely why the Agarthans gave her that Crest, as they weren't expecting to find the Sword of the Creator, linked to the Crest of Flames, in the tomb of Seiros. They expected to find the remains of Seiros, remains they could have made into a relic attuned to Edelgard's natural Crest. Instead, they make the Crest-stone weapon Amyr with a Creststone of Maurice, linking it to The Devil tarot. The Devil depicts people standing before Baphomet, a devil with curved horns, wings, boobs and making the same hand sign Edelgard's staff does in Flower's ending, and through the influence of that devil become more like him. It's symbolizing Edelgard can make people more like her just by being around her, and as FEH seems to indicate she knows this.

Stay around her too long, you get folks like Monica and Hubert. This could even apply to Hopes!Claude working with her, and how the Alliance members will accuse Claude of betraying the Alliance if he points out she attacked them and fights against her. Or you get cases like Byleth post-Flower, fighting to bring about “true peace” while Caspar's Japanese ending with Dorothea outright says the Empire is invading other countries through expeditionary warfare. Hell, look at what Edelgard says when Byleth is affected by the loss of their father, crying for the first time in their life. For Byleth to be ready when she's ready to move forward.

But what about Byleth and Sothis, you might ask? I think they're supposed to be using that power in another manner. Rather than directly control or influence people, they merely act as a guide and teacher. Look at what Emblem Byleth says in Hopes. Their level is called The Instructor.

Byleth “Depending on the wielder, power can be used for good or evil with equal ease. That's why the heart of the one controlling the power is important.”

That's Byleth's big lesson to Alear, one that Seteth also says in Houses. Now look at what Byleth needs to recruit people.

A B support with them, or,

Enough proficiency with two fields they want to be taught in or,

A vagina in the case of Sylvain.

Either Byleth has to have a close relationship to them, or they want to be taught by Byleth. Or Sylvain being horny. That's enough for them to join Byleth. If Byleth flees the Holy Tomb with Edelgard, they will join her side in the war. If Byleth rejects Edelgard, everyone but Hubert will and they'll come to Garreg Mach to reunite at the promised date. But you can't recruit people who weren't your students post-timeskip. They'll fight Byleth to protect their country. Their will is stronger during the War Phase, unable to be swayed.

Sothis wasn't forcing people to do anything back in the day, but that's probably how the Agarthans saw it hence why they view non-Agarthans as less than human. But it's not like Sothis couldn't manipulate others if she wanted to, look again at Hopes!Claude fighting against Edelgard. Likewise, Byleth's willpower is enough that Sothis can't take complete control of their body. She could have just brainwashed the Agarthans into playing nice if she wanted to, but she didn't.

What's more, look at Byleth's flag with the Crest of Flames. The devs called it the Fire Emblem of the game, representing the belief everyone has in Byleth. Belief, while Edelgard wants to crush those who don't believe in her.

It's the heart of the wielder, how that power is used, that's important. Edelgard uses it to twist people in service to her ideals, Sothis and Byleth uses it to guide the people like a Bodhisattva. Claude and Dimitri can attest to the effectiveness of this in their routes, routes that like Silver Snow lead to a changed Fodlan according to Flayn's endings whereas Edelgard's approach is supposed to represent Hadou. Rule through military force.

But this also means that the Imperial forces you fight, the guys who won't back down or surrender, they're not in control. Their free will, while weak, is compromised by Edelgard, unable to defy her orders. They're mere pawns under her control. It just kinda shows that Edelgard isn't making a world for the weak, she's making the world weak. Anyone with the will to oppose her is killed, that's the Fodlan she seeks and she's not even going to stop at Fodlan according to Caspar's endings. She wants to rule the world, says so herself at the end of Azure Moon.

Yet despite this, the party doesn't want to kill her. They want to offer their hand to her, make her see the light, but in the end her refusal to budge makes it so they have to kill her. One last example of either Dimitri or Byleth's will being enough to do what needed to be done, rather than let her kill them.

Don't be a pawn. Do the right thing, no matter how much it stings. Fight Edelgard for a brighter tomorrow.

#Youtube

[raxistaicho]

Who GW Claude really is

Spoilers!

As we’ve seen by now, certain people - mostly Edelgard detractors - are raising a gigantic stink over the way Claude is portrayed in Golden Wildfire. I believe this is the result of three year’s worth of a misunderstanding of who Claude is being brought crashing down.

As I said in a few months-old post of mine, Claude is not an ally of Dimitri or the Church except when convenient;

So what of Azure Moon? That’s Claude at a desperate moment, and it’s not Dimitri Claude trusts, but Byleth. Similar to Edelgard, Claude seems to naturally want to trust Byleth regardless of route. This is most notable in Azure Moon and Crimson Flower, where Claude yields to the side Byleth has chosen.

But the route where the misconception that Claude and Dimitri would work together is most obviously expressed as false is Crimson Flower, where Dimitri is available for an entire five years for Claude to conclude an alliance with, and yet he doesn’t. Claude does not actively assist Dimitri or Rhea in toppling Edelgard; he instead feigns neutrality with the intention of playing kingmaker.

So what does this have to do with Golden Wildfire Claude? Well, he’s essentially Crimson Flower Claude but playable. Who was Crimson Flower Claude? He was a person stuck in the unenviable position of commanding the weakest country and caught in the middle of a war between two powers he simultaneously didn’t want to win.

In the other three routes, he’s only able to soften up to the Church of Serios,

because he has faith that Byleth can curtail in the worst aspects of it. This is true no matter the route; Byleth simply has a magnetic effect on all three Lords, regardless of the route. See how Dimitri pleads to know why Byleth sided with Edelgard in Crimson Flower.

Conversely, he understands - and he expresses this in his support with Edelgard in Hopes - that if she crushes the Kingdom - which she intends to do because it’s too interwoven with the Central Church to leave as-is - then she’ll be in a position to do whatever she likes with the Alliance, and Claude needs the Alliance to be strong, as it’s his only source of influence in Fodlan. Without it, he can’t fulfill his ambitions.

Of course, he does end up losing in the end, so he’s forced to cut his losses and leave (and this is a post for the future, but he seems more at-ease giving Edelgard his goodbye than he does Dimitri).

But in Golden Wildfire, Byleth is on neither side. He wants neither Edelgard nor Rhea to win. Edelgard will conquer the Alliance, as I discussed earlier, and Rhea will come down hard on the Empire and expand the power of the Central Church. Neither of these results are something he wants.

Therefor, he, being the person in control of the weakest nation, has to essentially stalemate the war by taking out the Central Church with the Kingdom intact. That way, the Kingdom remains as a buffer against the Empire, but the Central Church can’t further its power. This is also congruent with his nature as someone who tries to find the least-bloody way that he can,

But naturally, in two routes this doesn’t work and he’s forced to just cut his losses and hope for the best by siding with the stronger power. This is different from Three Houses, where he’ll take the weaker side of the war, because Claude’s willing to take a gamble when the chips are down and he’d rather whichever side Byleth chose wins than allow Edelgard without Byleth to win. If he has to choose between Edelgard without Byleth and Rhea without Byleth, he’s essentially being forced to choose between two equally bad outcomes, so he just chooses whoever seems most-likely to guarantee his survival so he can try to make something work in the aftermath.

So yeah, people who perceived Claude as someone who would side with Dimitri or the Church when it came down to it misread him. Just like Edelgard and Dimitri, he’s someone who wants to do things his own way, and he can only do that in a world where those two don’t win. Though, that said, he does seem more amenable to choosing Edelgard over Rhea, for understandable reasons; their ideals are fairly similar in ways.

#three hopes #claude von reigen #Edelgard discourse #edelgard critical #claude discourse

[dmclemblems]

A lot of Rhea's dubious actions are normally done in self-defense/reaction to something that happened to her and the people around her. And I guess for a majority of people, self-defense is no defense?

To be fair that’s... also how Faerghus gets treated in both games. In general these games have a bad message about being conquered. Rhea does a lot of stuff you could side eye, and a lot of that is from trauma caused by things TWS did... and surprise, Edelgard is allied with those same people and has their exact same views and ideas about humanity. It makes it easy for them to manipulate her when she hates Rhea as much as they do.

Even if I don’t agree with everything Rhea does, she’s in a similar situation to Dimitri and Claude when it comes to reacting to experiences that hurt them. Claude has been known as an outsider and hated for his heritage, and because of that he doesn’t trust people. Instead of being cheerful and fun, he just uses that as a coping mechanism while he takes advantage of people in the academy phase of Houses, even pushing aside people’s feelings for his own gain. His end goal is to attain power for his own desires and not anyone else’s out of the pain that came with being isolated in Almyra. Sometimes he’s pretty cold, but he’s like that out of being hurt and left in danger his whole life until recently.

During the timeskip and for a while post timeskip, Dimitri is completely closed off and stopped behaving like a normal human. He reached the point where he decided it wasn’t worth it and that he only needed to focus on revenge. Like Gilbert said, he was left alone too long with just himself and his guilt. Eventually the voices he hears drove him into so much guilt that he couldn’t handle it without killing the people who killed his family and the people from Duscur. After going through so much, he just snapped.

Similarly, Rhea had things happen to her just because. Just because she existed and wasn’t the same race as the Agarthans. Just because she existed and had been a child of Sothis’. Once the battle against Nemesis was over, she rewrote history, but it was at the detriment to herself, her family and other dragons. Nemesis was labeled a hero (meaning Edelgard believes the false history Rhea decided to put out into the world) and she left out the fact that the Relics are the bones of her siblings. When she was able to rule and had influence over people, she was quick to eliminate potential threats (ex. the Western Church). She reacts out of fear, similarly to Claude worrying after his own life because he knows if his heritage gets out, people will target him. Rhea, in the same vein, would be targeted if people knew her identity and hated for her race. With not many dragons still alive, she wanted to keep the last few innocent dragons left safe, and to do that she was willing to do shady things to prevent more tragedy.

People don’t like Rhea so they don’t compare her to the other lords or want to recognize that she’s very similar to them. Her story is a mash of Dimitri and Claude’s, effectively. It’s just a bit less in the forefront because she’s not a main lord. SS is “her” route (really more Byleth and Seteth’s route, but you know), and Dimitri’s ghost shows up to explain his feelings and regret to Byleth (Byleth specifically, who has a deep connection to Rhea).

In VW, Claude defeats Nemesis just like she once did, basically clearing Fodlan of her lie that Nemesis was a hero and in a sense, freeing the dragons from the forced lie she had to tell for the dragons’ safety. If Byleth and Claude have leadership over the new world that Claude was making, the dragons would no longer be outsiders and wouldn’t have to fear for their lives, even if the truth got out (especially because Claude understands what it’s like to be different and thus targeted).

In AM, Rhea retreats to Zanado and leaves Fodlan in Dimitri’s hands. Byleth only controls the Church, ultimately. If Rhea thought Dimitri’s rule would bring problems about, she wouldn’t have just left and lived quietly. Rhea was kind of like the guide for Fodlan to most of its people, and Dimitri strongly believes that a king is a guide for his people, not someone who is specifically meant to rule and have all the say. He believes the people are the future and should be protected, so his role is to be a guide for them to find the future they’re looking for. Rhea acted in a similar way, but her leadership was different because of her fear.

The only chance you have for Rhea to rule the same way as Dimitri is by S supporting her in SS, i.e. she reaches the conclusion of her story the same way Dimitri does in his own route (as otherwise she dies so the full, proper conclusion of her story changes slightly. She either dies in redemption or steps down and lets Byleth rule while ruling on the side with Byleth but in presumably a new way).

Rhea... really is not that different from the other lords. Unfortunately she’s Edelgard’s main enemy, and since Edelgard is super popular, loads of the Edelgard fans hate Rhea simply because Edelgard does (and yet may like Claude or Dimitri).

#DCE Ask

[travelling-on-the-octopath]

Tweet I found: "Fire Emblem takes one of the most beloved FE protagonists and makes him live up to the promise of being a morally gray genius who plays both sides ON TOP of giving him a character arc."

I'm sorry, WHAT? One, Claude was only ever originally thought of as anything CLOSE to that; the """""promise""""" of him being anything other than what we got in 3H... never existed past the rough drafts. Like sorry-not-sorry to this fandom that insists so hard on making Claude way more morally dubious than he ever was in 3H, but Claude is for the most part a soft-hearted sucker. He was never half as bad as either he tried to say he was or the fandom ever treated him. And this is partially proven by even the eastern fandom being outraged at Hopes!Claude - the eastern fandom, who was never subject to Meme Man Claude portrayals of him! Like yes he can be underhanded, but the dude's just... nice, overall.

Two, if Claude was ever really someone who "played both sides" in 3H like this person said was """promised""" to us, then why doesn't he ever directly try to willingly help the Empire at any point in 3H? You know, like he does with helping the Kingdom cross Gloucester territory undisturbed, or how Claude gives Dimitri Failnaught, or how the Alliance lords willingly decided to fold back into the Kingdom, in AM? Even though the Empire, on CF, has Byleth to make them seem legit, and even though the Church would've still had the same dogma that Claudelgard insists they have that made him become an asshole?

Three - and I'm cupping my hands around my mouth for this one - A CHARACTER DOING BAD THINGS DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN THEY'RE ON A CHARACTER ARC. Claudelgard is not on any "arc" - not on one that's any sort of competently written, at least. Him killing his brother and him saying he's willing to get his hands bloody afterwards does not, by ANY means, signify that that now means he's willing to COMPLETELY THROW AWAY ANY CHANCES HE HAS AT HIS AMBITIONS FOR BETTER FOREIGN RELATIONS, or that he's willing to believe someone he KNOWS to be a liar on just her word, or that he suddenly gives a shit about expanding his power (when THAT has NEVER been a concern of his, either in 3H or even in 3Hopes before that moment) to the point that's he's willing to help the Empire in any way in order to leech off their influence. Really wished that the people who like Claudelgard would stop throwing around the term "character arc" as some kind of gotcha against those who see the very clear breaks in Claude's character that needed to happen for him to do pretty much anything he does post Chapter 9.

And would, like, just stop being so rude in general actually?? Like, the amount of times I'm seeing say things like "the people who don't like Claude in hopes just don't like him making mistakes" "they flanderized his character and forgot that he can be bad too" "oh to be a Claude fan who knows how to read (<- ACTUALLY SAID)" is enough to make me wanna scream lmao, like holy shit

This got . . . long. Oops.

I'm not going to pretend I haven't said things similar to "they just don't understand"; I've said it about the Lions, and I've said it about Claude, because while it does feel gross to say (who am I, a little clown on her corner of the internet, to go after someone's interpretation of a game), after a certain point it's very clear that the text does not matter to certain consumers nearly as much as their own conceptions of the character, which is . . . irritating, to say the least. It's less about proving right and wrong, and more coming to the conclusion that being selective regarding canon is a consumer's choice, but after a certain point their interpretation cannot be taken seriously because of how little care they give the facts in the original media. Which is to say: People can enjoy this version of Claude if they want to, but I would heavily encourage a breakdown of what they enjoy, and if that's really something that was present in Houses or if it's just something they wished were there. Because people can holler until they're blue in the face about the character Claude could have been, should have been, would have been better as, but at the end of the day, I don't give a shit about the original draft of this game's writing beyond a cute little "huh, that's interesting," because it, frankly, does not matter. It can certainly provide a frame of reference to how they bastardized his character in Hopes; and if you were going to write an essay on how writers treat characters who don't fit into their franchise's usual tropes, and how that result interacts with their consumer base, sure, you could cite the original plans for Claude as a case study, in that he was going to be some sort of conniving middle ground between Blue Lord and Red Emperor--but from a narrative standpoint you cannot reach into the writers' hard drives and say "See! This was the plan all along!" because I think if someone did that to Princes I think I would fucking implode. Intention is not product; there is a reason drafts exist. If the writers really, honestly cared about giving us a morally loose character, they would have taken care to keep him that way instead of allowing his character to become one who's firm enough in his morals to trust the Blue Lord with the state of affairs--and his family heirloom!--while he fucks off back home. The writers made choices; Claude von Riegan, AKA Khalid somethingsomething (WHEN ARE WE GOING TO GET A FAMILY NAME, INTSYS?), is the result of those choices, and while he doesn't get to shine nearly as much as we all would have liked in Houses, he's sure as fuck consistent: He always has a backup plan, he doesn't take well to people using violence to get their way, he very much cares about those closest to him, and above all he treasures his ambitions and protects it with everything he has, without feeling the need to throw away his life. People are more than within their right to want something different but . . . oh well? Like I'm sorry, I really am, but that is not what we got. Frankly, that's what fanficiton is for.

And......I'm going to ask this in the most respectful manner I can, but:

What fucking character arc? Because Claude remains tragically one-note on Golden Wildfire. He's made to work for the plot, again, instead of having it go the other way around. That means he can never be confident in his plans, because the plot needs him to get to a certain point to make Decisions(TM); that means he has to throw aside common sense and his stance already established in this game to make an Alliance that makes absolutely no sense for his character, but it necessary for the plot for . . . *checks notes* reasons. There were no ups and downs for this Claude, because he was little more than a plot device instead of a full-fledged character.

The reality of it is: Claude in Hopes was poorly written, and he is by no means comparable to Claude in Houses as a means of saying what should have been. He's not even allowed to walk away with the title of smartest dude on the board because half of the decisions he makes are just straight-up idiotic. I can't look at this guy and cheer that this is the guy we were supposed to get because a) the guy we got in Houses was flawed without being insufferable, and b) you can't just undo a whole game's worth of canon because you want to. Hopes, as per the developers, is not meant to override Houses, which means they're meant to co-exist, and as we've established by this point, these two guys are . . . nothing alike. If people want to look at my takes and the takes of others and say we simply never understood Claude, or that we can't appreciate a scheme-y schemer . . . well, sorry, but no.

#i really wanna play VW but like #can I go through a game without the Lions? #do I wanna let dimitri turn into a porcupine? #fe #fe3h (the remix) #s dunks on clyde #s responds #fire emblem warriors: three hopes spoilers #fewth spoilers #fea-and-fehf-headcanons #anyway thank you for another ask that let me word vomit gdlkfgj #i do like rotating claude von fire emblem in my mind all day

[faroreswinds]

Tumblr had originally deleted my answer to this ask here. At the time, I was really pissed and just throw out an answer because I had spent a good hour writing it up thoughtfully.

But now let’s try this again, with proper answers this time. However, these will still be short because I have lost the energy to give a more thorough answer. This isn’t nearly as nicely written as my original answer was. 

It's not supposed to be propaganda.

Edelgard’s speech and general rhetoric is propaganda. 

Propaganda- information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.

This isn’t even really controversial. 

Not sure what she means. Deny the people power? 

Nobility came from Nemesis, not the Church. Also, the Church was not involved with making the Alliance at all. No idea why she mentioned war here. 

This is the only point that may have some truth, but any organization needs money. Governments tax, businesses put costs on goods and services, and non-profit organizations get donations.

And if this is an issue, the leader of the church Edelgard does endorse does actually care about living in wealth, so she’s being pretty hypocritical here. 

Now we can’t be sure what she actually tells Claude since the game only tells us she sent a letter and doesn’t tell us the contents of said letter:

But Claude in this route barely ever says anything about the Church or Dimitri up until this point. In fact, he only says these two things:

Even Judith calls him out on suddenly buying into the Empire’s words without so much as questioning it. 

And the Empire clearly didn’t elaborate on what their words because Claude is surprised Rhea is a dragon. So he apparently never asked any more questions. 

Claude is planning to bring down the Church even before he talks to Edelgard. See: Azure Gleam.

This is never stated. This is only assumed if you believe he always wanted to kill Rhea himself or something. He only ever asks if Dimitri will continue to buddy up with the Church. 

Claude cares more about gaining the upper hand against the Empire so that his nation gains influence and power. 

And he is also super willing to betray Edelgard too:

In Houses, Claude wanted to depose Rhea as well but only didn't because Houses!Edelgard was a worse threat (Hopes!Edelgard is tolerable to Claude), because (of avatar-worship) Byleth is going to succeed Rhea and because Rhea goes through a bit of development due to her time as Edelgard's prisoner which made her more reasonable.

This is never stated. What happens is you gain support points if you suggest if he hopes Rhea is dead. 

This only implies he disliked Rhea, not that he wanted to kill her himself. He even wonders what a world would look like without Rhea. 

And Claude's criticisms of the Church never change. There is no moment Verdant says that Claude was wrong about the xenophobia stemming from the Church. He just learns Rhea's backstory, that's it, and in a support with Cyril, he learns that maybe it's possible to talk to Rhea.

He says this before they even talk to Rhea or rescue her. He starts to realize that the school, ran by the Central Church, actually had all sort of people there. 

Here he starts to realize that maybe it’s not the teachings. Again, we haven’t even rescued Rhea yet at this point. 

And then after rescuing Rhea, he realized his dream was going to take more work than just winning the war. 

Not to mention that we get Church NPCs being racist in Three Houses 

Everyone side has a racist, not necessarily all the religious ones.

or other NPCs pointing out how the Church lets the nobility do what they want

You mean how the Church is strong-armed by the nobles? Either the Church is too strong, or not strong enough. Which is it?

Do you choose to ignore the criticisms made against the Church? Do you find them all invalid? There are plenty of characters that agree with what Claude says about the Church including Dimitri, Lorenz, Marianne, Hapi. Holst etc.

No. There are some legit criticisms. What I want is proof. Characters can say all they want, but if the game contradicts them or doesn’t support their claims, it means nothing to me. 

Like, the Church sent assassins. And we have proof they did. Boom, that’s a legit criticism. 

The Church keeping the borders closed? Uuuhhh, I need evidence of that first. Which there isn’t any. At all. In fact, it’s the opposite. The Church is AG was rebuilding a Duscur town without even making the residents convert. 

I don’t take characters at their word. Especially if the game contradicts them.

#Three Hopes discourse #Three Houses discourse #Claude discourse #anon asks

[queenlua]

finished Golden Wildfire route

off-the-cuff thoughts:

* when someone told me Claude kills Rhea in this route, my first reaction was, “that’s fascinating.”  indeed, that was the “push” that got me to try the game out.  like, while Claude-as-presented-in-Three-Houses doesn’t really have much against Rhea (though he’ll approve if you speculate on her death), and Claude-at-end-of-Verdant-Wind certainly doesn’t begrudge Rhea (hearing her whole backstory is super sad!)... i’ve always thought you’d only have to push the pieces around a bit to, say, set up a situation where Claude letting Rhea die is convenient, or you could get Claude more fussed about the church earlier on, etc, and it was fascinating to me that Three Hopes was willing to actually go there with a darker take on the golden boy.

* ...unfortunately they didn’t actually set it up as Claude making a cunning play, lol, instead we are just very determined to kill Rhea because of Reasons TM.  in general, this route seemed to want you to take it on faith that the Central Church is not only evil but punish-by-death-able, which puts it somewhere between “Saturday morning cartoon villainland” and “tonally bizarre”

* lots of fun ideas that they didn’t really follow through with.  Claude and Edelgard using each other is rad, but we never actually see Claude get anything out of their alliance.  (having Edelgard in your “debt” because you saved her one time means nothing if you don’t have leverage, dude!)  Claude actually fucking up something once in his goddamn life is cool, except the whole Randolph thing was 100% a nothingburger to me, it’s called tactics and Claude was looking out for his own interests, why was everyone giving him so much shit about it, lol

* mostly this game’s story was a bundle of very interesting ideas with shit execution.  which, uh, is not a bad description of Three Houses, actually, but here they’re bungled it in totally different ways which is kind of hilarious

* i’m still very lmao at Fire Emblem’s general royalist streak.  “democracy annoying, replace with king” and then we just never really revisit that thread again huh

* Dimitri deliberately using Claude to get rid of Rhea is one of the few actually-fascinating political machinations going on (Dimitri! of all people! there’s hope for the boy yet!), but it happens mostly offscreen so waaaah

* shez >>>>>>> byleth

* i’m kind of glad i wound up killing byleth, if only because two more chapters sounds kind of insufferable; the route was already feeling kind of overlong (i was so OP i was just cruisin’ through battles near the end), and you tell me the other route has more?  dear god

* though at least all the animations were fly as hell.  near the end i was just swapping around characters to see how fucking cool they’d look on the battlefield (claude is coolest/flashiest by far, and also i got a soft spot for the bow knights in the house; watchin’ ashe’s horse fuckin do ballet while i was steamrolling enemies ruled)

* though i never quite got the hang of using mages?  i, uh, think i had a bad habit of just diving into hordes and taking the damage rather than “dodging” or “blocking” or “using a strategy” so maybe that’s why

* i was also super amused at how many of the paralogues were just blatantly filling in backstory that they decided to skip over in Three Houses.  can’t tell if they’re stuffing in stuff they always wanted to include, or if this is just padding stuff out, but hey now we know how Claude’s uncle died ig

* damn balthus is so good.  loved his supports.  why have i been sleeping on this himbo i need to write some more ashen wolves fic haigelhagil;e

* also: all of hilda’s supports are so gay.  good for her

* liked the bit where claude had to murder his brother, but damn could they have given him a less cartoonishly arrogant/moronic brother... did they even BOTHER to consider consulting my headcanons for his fam... smh

* does anyone play this game without playing Three Houses first?  they must be so confused rn poor dudes

* oh right, the lil animation that Yuri gets when he’s performing his ult or whatever? and he shouts “BOW BEFORE ME”?  fuckin 12-year-old-kid-winning-at-Mortal-Kombat energy, right there, i fuckin cackled, what a charmingly dweeby one-liner

* in conclusion, Three Hopes is a game

#lua plays three hopes

[somepinkthing]

Is edelgard a racist and/or xenophobic? Yeah definitely a little bit. But you gotta frame it in the context that about 90% of the characters we meet are too. Tbh I wasn't aware people really focused in on this aspect of her character until recently. I am not denying or dismissing it, it's an important theme, but for edelgard it's more in the peripherals of her story arc. However, the fact that it exists so casually perhaps makes a point in and of itself

Fodlan is isolationist. It has been isolationist for as long as its people can remember. That has created a mindset that is very distinct amongst people born and raised there. Them vs us. If you are not for us, you are other. Something else. Unacceptably different. That logic applies to broad political topics such as race and to more personal issues as well. That’s the norm of fodlan. Edelgard is not immune to racism; very few in the cast are. We see it in lorenz with his blatant distaste of outsiders. We see it in ingrid with her assumption that people who are different are the enemy, guilty without any proof and guilty to each and every person. We even see it in people like hilda and sylvain, who harbor no ill will but simply don’t think too hard about their actions or attitudes towards sreng or almyra. We see it in how people treat petra like an interesting commodity, dedue like a danger to society, cyril like mud beneath their shoes, and claude like a violent interloper. This is the environment edelgard fits into. That’s not an excuse by any means, but it does provide a certain context for the scale of the issue. The problem isn’t that it’s rare, the problem is that it’s the norm. Xenophobia is so ingrained that even people that might be decent otherwise don’t see the system as wrong

Now, if we are comparing, amongst the lords edelgard is definitely the most ignorant of this issue and, arguably, might not always pay problems outside of the crest system the attention they deserve. On this front especially, she can’t compare to dimitri who has seen the aftereffects of such hatred firsthand. And neither of them will ever know how it is for claude to live it every day of his life. Edelgard is more or less on par with hilda or sylvain. She holds no malice towards people from outside of fodlan and is open to seeing them as allies and friends. She’s even willing to consider opening peace talks with almyra. It's not that she's entirely intolerant, it's that she just doesn’t think too hard about her learned biases and her own position of power. The best example of this? Petra and claude

Edelgard treats petra like a friend and equal but, at no point, does she ever really seek to understand petra’s situation. In her letter to petra before the timeskip, she reminds petra so easily that Brigid is under imperial rule and, in the same breath, tells petra to make her own way and choose for herself. That's where the disconnect comes into play. Edelgard likely meant every word she wrote but given their situations? It’s disrespectful at best and a threat at worst. Edelgard never asked petra what her opinions of the empire are, about her situation, about her aspirations except to compare them to her own, or about brigid at all. Again, their interactions held no malice but it also lacked consideration. It's not that edelgard was being cruel but she didn't understand nor did she think to ask

Then there’s her words to claude in verdant wind and to byleth her paralogue. The irony of criticizing almyra for its invasion when she invaded another sovereign state just last month is not lost on me. And her words to claude in verdant wind? Honestly even if she had never said anything out loud, her attitude towards claude throughout the game more than spoke to her mindset on that front. But I think people latch onto it too much as a sign that edelgard is extraordinarily racist while I feel she was meant to represent a norm in those moments. “You can’t possibly be good for fodlan you weren't raised here,” is an unfair assessment which implies a lot of untrue things about immigrants, but comparatively? Edelgard’s opinion is downright tame and it's entirely possible that she even didn't understand that this is discrimination. I'm aware that claude spent at least seven years intensely studying fodlan's history, customs, and people and that he's more than proven himself as a leader—I'm not saying edelgard's right, don't misunderstand. I'm saying that the takeaway isn't that edelgard is singular in this. Rather, this opinion is fodlan's norm. The point is that even edelgard, who preeches against allowing one's birth to determine their future, would accuse claude of being unfit for a role simply for being born elsewhere and see nothing odd. In her mind, there's no reason keeping an "outsider" out of leadership roles should contradict her ideals. This scene exists to showcase how deeply intolerance is ingrained into all of fodlan's people, not to imply that edelgard is the outlier

Now, there is ofc one other thing that can’t be overlooked when talking about this topic: edelgard’s view of the nabateans. A million things can be said about that. Perhaps the agarthans whispered lies to her that she believed. Perhaps her hatred for rhea blinded her. We know for a fact she at least never knew the whole story. Whatever the reason, edelgard undeniably views nabateans as Other. They are not human, not like us. She heavily implies that they do not deserve to participate in fodlan’s future in part because of rhea’s mistakes, but also in part because they are not human. That they've lived on this earth just as long as the current human race has doesn’t seem to occur to her, only their relation to rhea. And yeah rhea had no right to use the people's faith the way she did and someone should say it, but we know for a fact that rhea isn't the only nabatean. Of the ones we know, only three have anything to do with the church! To decide that all the nabateans are overlords based soley off rhea is... something

The way I see it, edelgard's questionable takes on the nabateans are as likely to be due to xenophobia as it is a mixture of her being understandably angry, her relationship with rhea, the empire's history, and TWSITD's influence on her. However, whatever the case, there's no denying that it's messed up for edelgard to view an entire group of people this way and I know some people don't like CF partially because of this—and that's fair! To me though, it’s another aspect of her character that plays well into her backstory and all-or-nothing viewpoints. As for the rest of it though? If you dislike her for buying into fodlan’s crap about outsiders that’s definitely fair too, but don’t forget that her degree of ignorance is hardly the exception. It is very much the norm and, yes, that statement probably includes some (or a lot) of your faves

#edelgard von hresvelg #fe3h meta #fire emblem three houses #fire emblem #fe3h #long text post #edelgard #its weird to single out edelgard as The Most Intolerant One when #thats a) not true #and b) not the point #edelgard is smart and obsessed with change #edelgard believes in a merit system #edelgard believes in not judging based off what u were born as #... except claude #except the nabateans #almyrans are annoying when they invade #and brigid's situation is a blind spot #the point isnt that edelgard is evil here the point is that #she's never had to challenge these viewpoints #and the issue with the nabateans is ofc highly nuanced but it still def is generalization. which edelgard hates

[iturbide]

I think I remember seeing somewhere that Edwlgard was the smartest of the three lords for a) wanting to tear down the Crest system and b) taking out TWSITD, and to that I say: the ends do not justify the mand because holy F uck man this route is hHHHHH-

HA

HAHAHA

HA HA

yeah no sorry I do not buy that Edelgard is the smartest of the Lords.  Not by a long shot.  She does the stupidest thing possible in the stupidest way possible -- throwing her own personal forces into the conquest of Fodlan, substantially weakening her armies in the process of these hard fights and effectively leaving the now subjugated nation as easy pickings for the Twisted.  If she expects that she’s going to have forces from the Kingdom and Alliance to bolster her weakened forces, let’s not forget that she subjugated those nations: they’re not going to fight out of loyalty to her, and I wouldn’t be surprised if forced drafts lead to mass desertions.  I honestly think it’s outrageous to think she managed to take out the Twisted at all, considering how little forethought she seemed to put into the long game (and the fact that it’s just a footnote in end cards instead of actually showing how she did it is highly suspect to me personally).

[[MORE]]

Also, who in their right mind thinks that Edelgard is the ONLY one that wants to tear down the Crest system?  It might not be Dimitri’s top stated priority, but he very clearly wants system reform, and the system is based on Crests.  Changing the system requires dismantling the Crest bias -- and not only that, he himself and more than a few of his childhood friends have been negatively impacted by that bias (Sylvain and Ingrid in particular, but it’s not hard to see how Mercedes has been harmed by it), so he knows intimately how harmful it is.  The only reason Claude doesn’t have Crests on his top priority list is because the Alliance doesn’t operate the same way the Empire and the Kingdom do, and their reliance on Crests is different -- on top of that, the Eastern Church is considered the weakest branch with the least authority in its embedded region.  The system might be uncomfortable in the Alliance, but it doesn’t have the same stranglehold on governmental operations.

Also, who takes down the Twisted?  Black Eagles end cards make only the briefest mentions of it, but we never see her do the thing: the game literally ends after she murders Rhea.  Meanwhile, Claude not only infiltrates the Twisted home base and forces them to destroy it, he also helps murder Nemesis, who even Seiros couldn’t kill.  And this is a man who was completely in the dark about them, unlike Edelgard, who’s been intimately aware of them and their operations for most of her life: Claude takes the new information that Hubert’s note provides, generates a cautious plan, and then completely uproots them.  That’s incredibly badass and I feel goes to show just how effective he is as a tactician (and while Silver Snow goes the same route, don’t forget that Seteth is there, and he had first-hand experience with them -- Claude is flying blind, so his success is notable. 

Also, just taking a step back to get a broad view of Edelgard’s plan and the long-term consequences shows how unfeasible it really is.  Besides how ill-advised it was to take her own forces to war with only Twisted ‘support’ against the Church, the Alliance, and the Kingdom, her entire plan seemed to rely on bolstering her numbers through conquest, since she doesn’t hesitate to send her own people through the meat grinder known as war and would likely be hurting for soldiers and support when the whole campaign is done.  Beyond unrest in her own nation after five years of war they never asked for and that has likely left the Empire in a rough spot, conquered peoples generally aren’t all that willing to line up and fight for the people who subjugated them: she will likely be dealing with rebellions and unrest for years if not decades to come from that move alone, both within the Empire’s original borders and without in the territories she claimed by the sword.  Not only that, she kills the King of Faerghus, effectively making him a martyr for the Kingdom loyalists; add onto that the cryptic and completely unexplained line from one of his talks with Rhea before the Tailtean battle -- something about how ‘the Blaiddyd bloodline lives on’ -- and either he has a child on the way himself or possibly young relative with a Crest who’s been sent off into hiding.  So that’s probably gonna come back to bite her if that kid starts rallying Kingdom forces. 

And then there’s Almyra.  Whether you kill Claude or not (and let’s be real, Edelgard probably would prefer to kill him and it’s only Byleth that can potentially stay her hand), Almyra’s probably going to become a major threat in the not so distant future.  Spare him and he goes home, but his father is still king and could easily mount an invasion whenever he so desired; kill him and now the Almyrans have a blood vendetta because she murdered their prince.  Add to that the fact that Hilda very likely died in the battle, meaning the Gonerils have lost family to the Empire’s invasion and aren’t terribly likely to play nice, and they might even be willing to ally with the Almyrans and let them in through the Locket, perhaps even rallying scattered Alliance resistances and rebellions to swell the Almyran forces as they go.  On top of that, there’s even the fact that the Twisted city is literally in Goneril territory: even if Almyra took their sweet time preparing for an invasion force, what’s to stop the Twisted from reaching out to Holst -- the man who has been leading Fodlan’s whole defense against Almyra -- and trying to draw him to their side with the promise of revenge against Edelgard?  They make frequent use of pawns, so there’s nothing stopping them from finding a new one even before Edelgard turns on them (since she very unwisely telegraphed her intent at Arianrhod when she took out Cornelia: the fortress’ destruction was meant as a warning, but the Twisted group isn’t the type to sit idle either). 

Beyond all that, let’s not forget exactly how Edelgard intended to do away with the Crest system: tear it down completely.  But she had no plan in place for what to replace it with, which is painfully obvious from her A support with Ferdinand where she hadn’t considered the option of public schooling as a place to foster growth.  Her plan is literally ‘I want to make a world where merit is rewarded,’ but she has no plan for how to do that, and what counts as merit is a vague and intangible thing...until it’s taken in the context of her wider words and actions.  She praises Miklan as a man who could have been a great asset to the world had the Crest system not undermined him -- and remember, this is a man who tried to kill his younger brother and eventually rebelled against his family by taking charge of a bandit group that murdered and pillaged its way through the Kingdom.  Is the Crest system fair?  No, not in the least -- but the system didn’t make Miklan commit assault and murder: he made that choice for himself.  Edelgard seems to value combat prowess and potential military application far more than anything else -- even in her supports with Linhardt she berates him as wasting his talent by doing things for his own personal enjoyment, rather than to further magic theory -- so her ‘meritocracy’ is likely going to favor scientists working on combat magic and technology...and soldiers: obedient and unquestioningly loyal.  Which, in all likelihood, she’ll need given the environment she cultivates for herself in CF.

So no, I don’t think that Edelgard is the smartest lord.  I think she’s the most stubborn and bullheaded of them, instead.

#answered #anonymous #fire emblem: three houses #fe:3h spoilers #headcanon #look there's a lot in here and it's edelgard critical to the extreme #please read at your own risk if you support edelgard #but frankly what she does and how she does it is so poorly planned #it's verging on outright stupidity #but she refuses to believe that she could be wrong or tha there could be other options #and it's one of the things i dislike most about her character #how she actively resists change #that doesn't foster any kind of good results #edelcourse

[agent-cupcake]

Adding on to the Claude discussion, I feel like he’s not nearly as compelling as Dimitri or Edelgard because 1) Golden Deer’s writing isn’t as good and 2) the Leicester Alliance is kind of ancillary to the war in Fodlan. I found Claude less compelling than the other lords because he doesn’t go through the growth that they do. I haven’t finished BE yet so I don’t have much to say abt Edelgard, but Dimitri has to have his whole world view upended in order to succeed and win the war. (1/2)

(2/2) Dimitri has to change the way he views his purpose in life and change the way he acts in order to succeed against Edelgard, but Claude is never wrong. Claude finds new information about the Church and has his understanding of Fodlan’s history change, but his approach to life and his beliefs never felt like they were challenged the way Dimitri’s was. I want to like Claude as much as I like Dimitri and Edelgard, but compared to them, he‘s too static to be as compelling as his fellow lords.

//

I’m not sure I agree that Verdant Wind’s writing isn’t as good as I think it might be the most coherent narrative plot the game is able to tell, but Claude’s lack of a character arc is a bit jarring and the Alliance does kind of feel like a support role, cleaning up the mess afterward. It’s strange, because apart of me instinctively feels that Claude is a bit out of place in the game, but then you look at the themes and the things the game is trying to say and he almost seems more cohesive with the Church/Edelgard story than Dimitri does. In a world where Edelgard was the official antagonist, I think Claude and Dimitri would have been more balanced story-wise, representing a different form of opposition to her actions. Seriously, out of any of them, Claude was the only one ever interested in the actual truth that Edelgard and the Church outright covered up (as compared to Dimitri’s equally bad flat out ignorance of the truth). But that doesn’t matter, not really. If anything it’s just more exposition instead of attempting to show anything and, like you said, it doesn’t change anything. 

I, unfortunately, agree with you about Claude. I wish I didn’t. He alludes to having a certain moral code and be willing to do whatever it takes to achieve his goals, but you never see that side of him because the game isn’t interested in pushing him to make those calls. Really, the story takes it easy on all of the Lords. I love Dimitri and Edelgard but their own routes baby them just as much. The only difference is that Claude wasn’t allowed to have the internal conflict that gives Dimitri and Edelgard tension and drama to make up for it. Like I said before, I disagree with the idea that you need to be a mentally tortured ball of trauma to make an interesting character... But come on. They expect us to believe that five years of playing a wartime politician didn’t give Claude a new perspective or in any way challenge his bright-eyed ideals of what trying to fight discrimination would actually mean? Intelligent Systems is telling us that he was already fully prepared for what war would mean for him mentally, what being a leader after a lifetime of being an isolated outcast would do to make him grow?

The tragedy of Three Houses is being frustrated as you read between the lines and see hints of what the story and characters might have been only to know that it will never be. That said, I love Claude a whole bunch and I maintain that Verdant Wind is probably the most coherent story-wise. I talk such mad shit about this game considering my entire life spins on its axis

#Anonymous #FE3H spoilers // #FE3H #fire emblem three houses #claude von riegan #i hope this doesn't come off as unduly negative

[butwhatifidothis]

Do you think it'd be in character for Claude to fake an alliance with Edgey in GW Pt 2 so that he could undermine her while seeking an alliance with the Kingdom behind her back? I mean, that way, he could ask Rhea directly about what Edgey told him instead of blindly believing her.

It would be more in character, but not as much as it looks at first.

Because yes, Claude is very familiar with not exactly telling the truth, and he is also familiar with working around people who inherently distrust him. And something somewhat like this kinda happens in 3H, with Erwin - Claude has Nader create a distraction for the army to pass through Gloucester territory to Myrddin so that Erwin's forces don't intercept them (he does this in all the routes in fact, save for of course CF). So it's not like he isn't capable of some form of trickery, even when it comes to people he considers allies.

What becomes an issue though is that those sort of trickery means are mostly used for last-resort, fairly specific situations - Plan A wasn't to make Erwin think his lands are being attacked, it was the only option Claude had available due to the very landscape of Leicester necessitating going through Gloucester territory, and due to Erwin's stubbornness about aligning with the Empire (whether or not those reasons were self-serving or for self-preservation). Again, with Myrddin we see that he's willing to openly help the Kingdom/Church, despite the act of doing so breaking any neutrality the Alliance could have held onto. Communication with Erwin had already failed (due to, again, his stubbornness to align with the Empire), but Claude also explicitly says that he doesn't want to engage in actual combat with House Gloucester, so lies were the only way to go forward.

With the Empire, however, there was never any worry about engaging in combat with them - they invaded his lands, and he fought back. If Edelgard had started with negotiations with Claude first, that'd be one thing - if there was an attempt at an assurance for peace from Edelgard's end to start everything off, it'd make the idea of him joining her to betray her later have some ground to stand on logically. But with him doing absolutely nothing to provoke her she attacks his lands, which has two reasons for her doing so in specifically Claude's mind: taking Garreg Mach to use as a base, and getting rid of the Alliance and Kingdom at the same time.

To the first reason: while Garreg Mach is a good base, it's arguable that having to defeat the Alliance on top of fighting the Kingdom for it makes taking the base moot to begin with. Even for the symbolic nature of it, since Rhea has already been booted out at this point. The trouble would be more than its worth, essentially. And the second reason is... fairly obvious as to why that isn't gonna work out lmao.

Then there's also also the fact that Claude was handling the Empire pretty damn well - he is a young leader and is tricksty in his antics which means skepticism from his more experienced peers, the Alliance is known for its weaker military strength, and he had to deal with Shahid looming over his head, yet Claude still manages to hold off the Empire pretty effectively. So with Edelgard invading Claude's lands off rip and his shown proficiency at fighting back against her without much non-Alliance help, there's no benefit to siding with her, even falsely - none that would outweigh the benefits of siding with a party that has given him no misgivings, in any case. She's not a force that is too big to take on from the outside and so needs to be taken out from the inside, so going through the effort of getting inside is meaningless.

So, would falsely siding with Edelgard while secretly siding with the Kingdom be more in character? It certainly can be, if one plays the cards right. But given how Claude's handling of the Empire and Edelgard's actions against the Alliance are written, it'd be far more in character for him to just side with the Kingdom outright at that point

#ask #anon #clyde discourse #like at that point it's better to just cut the fat #there's no pretense of neutrality from Claude; he's already fought back against her #there's no pretense of peace from EdeIgard; she's already invaded his lands #the Empire is not an impossible force; Claude is dealing with them extraordinarily well given his circumstances #the Kingdom isn't a potential threat to Claude; it has done nothing to garner any attention (positive or negative) from the Alliance #and if the biggest issue was the Church/Rhea then Claude can just. snoop around? to find shit out? like he always did in 3H? #(hell with the war going on he - as leader of the Alliance - is the only one with fairly safe access to the ONLY SAFE WAY into Garreg Mach) #(so he could literally just like. have spies get in and snoop around? or even walk in himself if there's no one there? like hello) #and not side with the girly trying to kill him and who is responsible for the deaths of many of his people. just a thought #so there's nothing to really gain from pretending to side with Edelgard that couldn't be found in allying with the Kingdom

[fantasyinvader]

I was thinking about the events of the prologue again. We know that Edelgard hired Kostas with orders to "kill as many noble brats as possible," but I think the game does give us a clue as to why. And no, it's not teacher theory. An NPC says afterwards that if any of the students had died, it would have hurt the image of the Academy, Knights of Seiros and the Church as a whole. Now, remembering that Edelgard is someone who uses propaganda, I mean, information campaigns this would be a perfect opportunity for her. If a bunch of students, "noble brats," die it breeds animosity towards the Church. Animosity that can be used to seek allies, after all the month after Kostas is dealt with we have to deal with Lonato raising an uprising against Rhea over the death of his son. We know that the son and Lonato were manipulated by the Western Church into doing this, pawns of TWSITD for Edelgard's benefit.

And when Claude fled, Edelgard followechasing her d him and was even trying to point them to Remire. Why? We know that Claude's fleeing is meant to be an Almyran trait, that his people believe it's better to flee and survive rather than fight to the bitter end. The game also wants us to believe Edelgard and Claude aren't too dissimilar before Claude's character growth begins, ergo Edelgard fled to save her own life. She does the same thing at Gronder, throwing wave after wave of troops at her enemies while she stays in the back and eventually flees while Dimitri is overwhelmed and dies.

Actually, there's a bit of character growth for Claude there. Notice at the Battle of the Eagle and the Lion he does the exact same thing she does, while at Gronder he charges with his troops like Dimitri does. Even if we don't pick the Deer House, Claude still grows somewhat because of White Clouds, possibly why he tries to stay neutral rather than join Edelgard to take out the Church because he hates her methods and the lengths she's willing to go to (though will still hand the Alliance to her if he loses in Flower if he's allowed to flee).

Anyway, back on topic. This also means that not only did Edelgard put a hit on her classmates, she did so when Hubert got caught up into it. Considering she laughs as his confession, or how he always dies away from her, this is foreshadowing. Like about her using Bernie as bait, then setting the hill she's on on fire, or how Hopes revealed that Edelgard knew the real Monica who was very loyal to her, knew where Monica was held but did nothing to save her because the opportunity never presented itself. It shows how little Edelgard actually values him or the lives of those around her in pursuit of her goals.

On the other hand, any students that manage to survive would also have proven their strength. It's a quick and dirty way for Edelgard to discover who the strong actually are, and who to potentially sway to her side. Considering how Byleth or Shez take Kostas out, she instead focuses on them. Maybe that's why she wrote Monica off, because Monica couldn't save herself. An early hint to her real ideology perhaps?

[crystalelemental]

To me, Edelgard vs Dimitri is the difference between gradualism and revolution. I dont hate Dimitri, but I think his beliefs are nonsense. To think that forcing your beliefs on others is just self-indulgence... sometimes, forcing your beliefs on others is the only way to save the people those others are hurting, imo. I think Claude is also right, of course. It's just that class inequality isn't really a main focus of his, but regional/racial inequality. Which is also very worth addressing.

There's a lot to this, and I'm gonna do my best at it.

I think it ties in a lot to that sense of "what are the limits of free speech?"  If someone is actively causing harm with their speech and beliefs, then is it acceptable to let them continue?  No, of course not.  Unconditional freedom will eventually lead to restrictions placed on the most vulnerable.  In a scenario like with the Church, they are fairly permissive.  People can sort their own shit out, as long as their shit sorting doesn't rock the boat too much.  Which, by inference, means that things like the Tragedy of Duscur and blood experiments taking place in the wake of the emperor's loss of power, were permissible.  They're allowed within the Church's framework.  The Church itself may not condone the actions of the seven noble houses, or of Faerghus' decimation of the Duscur people, but those in power didn't intervene and indirectly permit these atrocities.  Allowing that to continue is definitely the wrong course.

In terms of how each route handles it, I still think Claude is the most correct of the three.  But I'm going to go in reverse order.

Dimitri's absolutely the least interesting, and frankly, least correct of the bunch.  He's purely the status quo route.  Nothing at all is addressed in his route aside from the immediate conflict.  None of the context that addresses what happened is ever talked about, the route solely focuses on Dimitri and his trauma.  Which...is weird, considering how much trauma every other kid in the house should also have, but never really gets to express in the main story.  Particularly with Dedue, but that's a different talk for a different post.  Dimitri's route just doesn't actually address anything.  It's a powerful personal story, but for the world at large, his outcome is the worst.  Nothing with the church is addressed.  Nothing with the Agarthans is resolved.  Nothing changes, at all, aside from a very standard "good guy beat bad emperor" ending.  Which in any other game would be fine, but in this game stands out as the least compelling.

With Edelgard's route, I see what you're saying, and agree for the most part.  You can't let injustice keep happening, and sometimes you do have to push for change.  Taking it to war is the extreme route, but is Edelgard's inherent philosophy incorrect?  Well...no, not really.  The people of the church are generally all nice people.  I like Rhea, I love Seteth and Flayn, and a lot of the knights are interesting too.  But an institution that's going to sit back and allow tragedies to occur, solely because they're about not intervening beyond what directly challenges them?  That can't be allowed to stand as a power, and Rhea's made very clear that she's not about to let go of that control, unless it's passing the baton to someone else who would continue to hold that control (Byleth in pretty much every ending).  I think Edelgard's right in that the Church needs to be dismantled, or at least its control over Fodlan removed, but...I think Claude did it better.

You mentioned that Claude's racial inequality wasn't the main focus.  And that's true.  But that's because, like he states, the story is taking place within Fodlan.  Fodlan is incredibly wrapped up in its own internal politics, and doesn't interact with the outside world in any capacity.  Hell, Claude even comments that the Church preaches against coexistence with other nations, likely so Rhea can keep Fodlan as a safe haven for the remnants of her family.  Outside interference could mean humans seek power again, and that could lead to harm for the few that remain of her people.  So it's understandable why Rhea's like this, but it's not the correct course of action.

I'm getting off-topic.  My point is, consider Claude's goal with opening the borders.  Free flow of goods, but also of ideas.  Of philosophy.  Almyra has its share of troubles, but also has things going well for it.  Claude believes that, if Almyra and Fodlan could make peace and communicate with one another, that they'd not only come to understand each other, but also the systems they live in.  Think about that.  For an isolationist territory like Fodlan, they'd have no means of grasping what could be different.  This is just how things are, you either continue to follow what's been done (Dimitri) or, as a radical with no outside reference of what's needed, go full on anarchy and decide the only thing to do is smash the whole system (Edelgard).  Claude offers a compromise that can avoid this binary choice.  Open your frame of reference.  The Almyrans don't have the Church.  They don't have strict doctrine.  Nor did the people of Duscur.  Yet they're societies, with some kind of power structure that, while it has problems, is working in other ways for them.  If the ideas are communicated freely between territories, perhaps the people of Fodlan can find that, hey, this other place is doing really well in this area, why aren't we doing that?  Instead of a pure "Smash the system" approach, there could have been a non-violent way to approach the problem, as Claude believes.  Better still, his solution, if it works, is one that helps expand the worldview of the populace.  If successful, it's not just expanding ideas about race relations, but about all sorts of issues, effectively allowing people to address every issue in due time.  His immediate concern isn't exactly the same as Edelgard's, but I feel like Claude's solution would eventually lead to a solution for Edelgard's problem, while Edelgard's solution would not do the same for Claude's.

For Edelgard to purely be in the right, I think what we'd need is the proof that the populace of Fodlan seeks that change, but the Church refuses.  That the Church is an active authoritarian structure itself.  But that also completely changes the context for Edelgard's character and actions, and I'd think for the worse.  That would create a simple black/white morality binary, and that's not what makes this game so good.  It's the fact that everyone has a point but also has their faults.  Dimitri's well-intentioned and thinks very carefully about the lives of his people, but that comes at the cost of ignoring pretty much every societal issue in Fodlan.  Edelgard recognizes society's problems and is willing to do whatever it takes to change them, but at the cost of instigating a war for the entire continent.  Claude's route seems the best on the outside, but I think his drawback is that his solution is based on a lot of faith.  There's no guarantee it will work.  People may not assimilate well, and exchange of ideas may not result in mutual improvement, but could become mutual digging in of heels that their way of life is better, and reinforcing the isolation.  Claude's route is correct in the moment, but long-term it's hard to say.  Edelgard's addresses the problem immediately, but...well, barring the ending cards (which I don't believe), would likely create equal problems with a central, unchecked locus of power for the entire continent once she dies.  Successors could easily unmake all her progress.

For me, I think Claude's the most correct in terms of context for this reason.  The Church does seek to keep Fodlan under control, but hasn't turned against the people's wishes just yet.  A non-violent approach is preferable in this situation.  If it didn't work, or if the Church tried to reinforce its authority by rejecting these changes, then Edlegard's route would have a bit more merit.  But I think setting up a situation in which she in the right, is only possible when the other sides aren't, which ruins the balance of morality the game is playing.  It's far more interesting to have the extreme approach pulled at this point in a societal change, because it raises that question of when a revolution is appropriate, and when is it something that’s just serving whoever’s going to inherit power in the aftermath?

#fire emblem three houses

[dmclemblems]

IMO Lonato is a symptom of the fact that the plot of 3H only works if communication does not exist. Lonato doesn't believe Christophe was involved in the tragedy of Duscur or involved with a plot to assassinate Rhea. But instead of really trying to discover the truth, he unilaterally assumes Christophe cannot be in the wrong therefore Rhea BAD therefore let's raise an army of civilians and march on the church. He's basically a mini Edelgard in his actions (no truth, only violence). Part 1/2

That's probably why 3H Edelgard even says she'd "do the same thing as Lonato" aka raise an army of civilians she doesn't care about sacrificing just to fight against Rhea/the church. And in Hopes, Edelgard legit saves Lonato unlike in 3H where she kills Lonato (as everyone does in 3H chapter 3). If you hate the church, that's really all it takes for Edelgard to think your life has value. Disagree? Then she believes you're an easy sacrifice to her goals too, just like with Lonato. Part 2/2

I think it really depends what part of the plot, since you’d still have things like TWS and Edelgard’s personal issues with the Church or what have you. To a point there’s still plot going on (and in Hopes Edelgard doesn’t hide that Thales killed Dimitri’s father from him and just outright mentions it). It’s usually when people are more in gung ho mode that there’s a lack of communication, like how even Dimitri was like that for a while until Rodrigue died.

There are definitely a lot of communication plots involved in the game though and ironically I think that’s what frustrates people. A lot of them are such extreme circumstances to not be making sure of what you’re (the characters are) getting into.

I’m not sure if Lonato did or didn’t care about the people he brought with him, but Edelgard makes it pretty clear that she’s completely willing to sacrifice the populace and commoners. For Lonato it’s possible he just didn’t care what the truth was and wanted revenge for his son regardless (because it was his son regardless of the facts).

I do wish they gave him more than they did even just a bit more because for him to be an important part of Ashe’s story, and in Hopes Catherine says Christophe was a classmate of hers. It feels like it should’ve been more in depth than what we got, but unfortunately Lonato was a black and white case of like... there’s no refuting his intentions. I feel like in that way communication for him was a matter of him not even caring by the time he made the decision to raise a militia. In theory it should be important, but... well, it’s Three Houses lol. Dimitri and Claude like communication but most people just... don’t really consider it (Rhea also isn’t really one for communication. Even if I like her, I mean, I can’t say she was willing to give people a fair trial even if they implicated that they were lied to by someone and acted out of believing what ended up being a lie).

#Three Hopes Spoilers #DCE Ask

[jtavington]

Crimson Wind: Hegemon

In which there is absolutely no foreshadowing. Not a bit

The sound of wings filled the air and a horrible shriek made Byleth's blood run cold. A...thing rose over the line of the trees. It was larger than any Beast she had seen before, it's great skeletal wings almost blotting out the sun. It's flesh was corpse pale, with dark patches on the face as if it were rotting away. Red eyes glowed as it flailed vaguely human limbs. The color drained from Edelgard's face. "No, oh no.” She pushed Byleth to the ground. “Get down!”

Byleth lay pressed in the dirt as purple energy arced overhead. She heard the crack of tree limbs and the breaking of stone. "What is that thing?" she whispered.

"Something that will take all of us with your Relics to defeat.” Edelgard said. “We need to lead it back to the others.”

She could do that. Byleth drew the Sword of the Creator as she rose. It glowed with power. Bone stretched and swirled as she whipped it toward one of the Beast's forelegs. It shrieked again but didn't slow as it dove toward her. Byleth rolled out of the way and used the time it to the Beast to turn to make off through the undergrowth. Edelgard panted behind her. Branches and thorns tore at their cloaks, but she didn't dare move to more open ground while they were alone.

They stumbled into the clearing. "Your Relics! Now!” Byleth shouted to the others as they stared.

Mercifully, they didn't ask questions because they had only enough time to ready their weapons before the Beast appeared. One look at Seteth and Flayn told her that they didn't know what the thing was either.

Claude struck first, with a shot aimed at the eye. Magical power engulfed the arrow. Byleth had seen Failnaught kill a man from half a battlefield away, but the creature wreathed itself in purple flame, and the arrow fell harmlessly away. But the purple flame didn't vanish. Instead it moved along the Beast's limbs. The forelegs pulsed and eddied as if they were made of liquid. Another shriek. It almost sounded like fear.

"It's not stable,” Edelgard said. "We have only to force it to expend energy, and it will destroy itself. Cornelia, you fool.”

Claude readied another arrow. "Just so you know, I expect some answers in exchange for being bait.”

“Not now, Claude!”

Lysithea sent forth another blast of silver light, this time aided by Thyruses. The purple flame swallowed the magic, but the creature's face blurred into an indistinct mass before righting themselves. Again and again it absorbed attacks that had felled the strongest foes and each time the body seemed to lose more of its form. Just what was this strange Beast and how did Edelgard know so much?

The Beast was little more than an indistinct blob when it shot its last volley of purple light toward Seteth, He dodged but not quite quickly enough and the magic grazed against his leg. He grunted in pain and fell to one knee. The Beast or what was left of it sensed blood and lumbered toward him.

Edelgard stepped in front of it, silver but mundane axe at the ready. "The power you hold it wasn't meant for you. I'm sorry. She threw the axe. The creature engulfed it without even the need for a barrier. A useless blow.

Almost. Byleth circled around behind while it was busy with its prey and let fly the Sword of the Creator. The purple flame arced and died as the blob creature became nothing but a pile of white liquid and screams before evaporating into nothing.

Byleth's breath came in ragged pants. None of them could speak. She had thought she had seen every horror the Agarthans had to offer, but clearly they still had a few tricks. She stumbled toward Seteth and Edelgard, but Flayn reached them first and knelt beside her father with a sob.

He ruffled her hair weakly. “It's all right, Flayn.”

“It is not all right! First Mother and then Rhea and now...” She summoned healing magic and put a hand over the dark, oozing gash. "You can't leave me alone. You can't.”

"I won't. I only need a moment to rest."

Edelgard stiffened. "So very human, " she muttered.

“We'll be happy to give you a few minutes.”Claude's voice seemed as superficially light as ever, but Byleth had known him long enough to know when steel lay beneath the silk. "It'll probably take a bit for Edelgard to explain what that thing was.”

Edelgard stared at the remains of the Beast and at the cairn. "Thales name for it was the Hegemon. A Beast almost impossible to kill and who retained its mind and ability to speak. It could command both humanity and Beasts, hence the name."

Claude whistled. "That would be really useful, if you didn't mind becoming hideous. And if Thales wasn't lying through his teeth. That thing couldn't speak, and it practically blew itself up." He furrowed his brow. "Wait. You said the power wasn't meant for it. Who was it meant for?”

A heavy silence descended over them, and the hairs of Byleth's neck stood on end. She knew the answer. She wished she didn't. "It was meant for the Hegemon of Fodlan. For you."

Edelgard met her gaze. It was the Emperor who stood before her now. “Does it shock you? I was always willing to do what must be done. If I spared myself, how could I looked at the families of the dead in the eye? Your church already thought me a monster. I saw no reason not to take the form of one."

"Because you could have killed yourself!" Her heart was as still as ever but Byleth's pulse thrummed erratically. "Are you so anxious to commit suicide that you would discard your humanity?”

Her eyes were hard and her voice was ice. "I thought I was supposed to be the one whose views were too narrow. Or does every person with the misfortune of deformity discard their humanity as well? I would not have been what we fought.” Her gaze landed on the Crest Stone. "My twin Crests would allow me to maintain control instead of becoming a Beast in truth. It still could.”

“That thing was repulsive.” Lysithea shivered. "But if the situation ever became truly dire and a twin Crest could truly control the transformation, perhaps it would be worth it. I don't have very long anyway."

“No!” Byleth and Edelgard said at the same time.

Byleth moved so she could look at both of them. Her precious student, her once and current infatuation, both of them had suffered so much and lost so much that they imagined the only way they could redeem it was to throw their lives away. "Neither of you will be transforming into anything. That's an order. Your lives matter far too much.”

They stared at her with guilty looks, not believing her but trying to pretend they did. Byleth frowned, If I am a goddess, let me give them a desire to live.

There was no answer.

#crimson wind #fanfic #wip #edelgard

[cielleduciel]

okay okay, Black Eagles/Crimson Flower. this is very long and very rambly bc i was mad and i probably repeat myself a lot but whatever

keep in mind going forward that this was my FE3H first route and the only one i've played so far, and it was... disappointing. i really, really want to like Edelgard as a character bc she seems interesting and she has so much potential, but fact is the game never allows her any sort of true depth, and never lets you interact with her in any meaningful way

and i hate to say it bc i ALWAYS go to bat for complex underappreciated female characters, which is what i was expecting out of this, but that's not... even what she is. none of her potential is ever realized. she's one-note and static and the writers seem to think that just throwing in a traumatic backstory (that never gets explored, even as it very obviously relates directly to her worldview) and a few cute/quirky character moments will give her depth, but it doesn't

the game really LOVES to try and play up this special bond between Edelgard and Byleth and how much Byleth means to her, but it never feels earned. she always says that she feels like she can tell Byleth anything and everything, but she doesn't. i have no better understanding about why she felt like she needed to do the things she did than i did at the end of part 1. all she ever says is that she has to do it all in the name of her ideals and a better future and it's the only way, and all i ever wanted throughout the entire route was to ask WHY ? WHY is this the only way ? WHY do you feel like this is the only thing you can do ? WHY are all other options off the table ?

she's cooperating directly with Those Who Slither In The Dark (TWSITD), who not only experimented on and tortured Edelgard herself and killed her siblings, but also killed Byleth's father, but we never explore the implications of that. hell, Edelgard's issues aside, Byleth themself has their own stake in this, their own very good reasons to question Edelgard and the lengths she's willing to go to in order to achieve this future of hers, but they're NEVER given the chance. if you choose her route, the game apparently assumes that you've decided to follow her without question or reserve, regardless of everything that happened, even though it makes no sense in context. at the end of the route, Edelgard even admits that she couldn't understand why Byleth wound up taking her side, and i wanted to SCREAM !!! LIKE YEAH, I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT EITHER ??? i was HOPING we would get to explore that at some point but I GUESS NOT ????

at most, Edelgard offers platitudes by saying that she too hates TWSITD and regrets everything they've done but still maintains that her alliance with them is necessary for the time being, because they are the best allies she has against the church, and she needs their strength. again, my question is: WHY ? because while i can see how they may have been useful to her in part 1, i didn't see them do ANYTHING to help her during the entirety of part 2. they had literally zero presence in any of the battles, were not even shown or mentioned aside from the moments where they were being CLEARLY ANTAGONISTIC towards her, like when they NUKED ARIANRHOD AS A "WARNING" as soon as Edelgard captured the city bc they were mad she killed one of their officers,

and yet she felt like she needed to spin the story to say it was the church's doing so as to like, save face and rally morale while maintaining their alliance, i guess, but why ?** even in the FINAL BATTLE AGAINST RHEA HERSELF, Arundel shows up ONLY to literally say "yeah i'm just here to watch lmao". so like, as far as i know from everything i have physically seen, we defeated the church without their help at all--in SPITE of their "help", even--which does not help me understand why her alliance with TWSITD is so necessary that Edelgard has to just grit her teeth, bear it, and cover for them until the war is over so that she can finally turn on them

(**i get not telling the entire army about Arianrhod to avoid panic and questions, but what was the point of lying to the rest of the Black Eagles ? why is it that Byleth, Edelgard, and Hubert seem to be the only ones allowed to know about the empire's workings with TWSITD ? like what was even the point of Edelgard revealing herself as the Flame Emperor at the end of part 1 ((which was also a totally botched scene but i'm not even gonna get into that here))? i thought the reason for that scene WAS to reveal the truth to everyone that she was working with TWSITD, we even had that whole dramatic battle where Edelgard had to fight her own house and professor bc of it ? but i guess it wasn't, bc none of them ever bring it up again, and the game still treats it like they should all still be in the dark about it, so ???)

on top of that, i still don't understand why she felt like she needed to antagonize the Alliance, or even the Kingdom, when her enemy is the church. like i get it, there’s no negotiating with the church as it is, violent conflict with them is inevitable and i’m not against that, i understand it and i can get behind it. but why didn't she ever try talking to the other two factions or working together w them or FORGING ALLIANCES instead of resorting immediately to violence ?** maybe i can believe that Dimitri and the Kingdom are a lost cause, but for example--and again now i haven't played the GD route, but from what i understand-- Claude's values are fairly similar to Edelgard's, and he does a lot of digging into the church on his own and is able to discover much of the truth. her alliance with TWSITD is apparently "necessary" but it never occurs to her to reach out to GOOD PEOPLE like Claude who would share her interests ? why ? why can’t we even bring it up ?

(**my confusion with this is best summed up by that one interaction she has with Dimitri in part 2, where before they're about to fight, he asks her, "Must you continue to conquer? Continue to kill?" and her response is literally, "Must you continue to reconquer? Continue to kill in retaliation?" like WHAT ? WHAT KIND OF CHILDISH "NO U" NONSENSE IS THAT ? YOU'RE LITERALLY THE AGGRESSOR HERE, ARE YOU REALLY TRYING TO TELL HIM HE SHOULD'VE JUST SAT BACK AND LET YOU TAKE THE KINGDOM WITHOUT EXPLAINING ANYTHING ? HE'S TRYING TO REACH OUT TO YOU, WHY DO YOU ALWAYS REFUSE TO GIVE HIM A STRAIGHT ANSWER. WHY ARE YOU BEING SO OBTUSE ABOUT THIS. WHAT IS THE REASON)

this isn't even getting into the fact that it becomes very obvious that Edelgard does not have the whole story behind the church and TWSITD, but there's no way to call that into question either. from what i understand from a few spoilers i've been given, she even gets some parts of the story flat-out wrong. this is The Story that she uses to justify all her actions, to herself and to others, and yet she's clearly missing key details, but we never get to question it, or investigate it further, or do anything about it

and what makes it suck extra is that, as i said, i really wanted so, so badly to love Edelgard. i wanted that bond between her and Byleth to feel real, and earned, and substantial. i wanted to work together and interact with her, to  understand her, bc i genuinely sympathize with her goals. let’s erase inequality, abolish the nobility, destroy the crest system that sustains it, and tear down an oppressively intolerant religious institution ? hell yes sign me up bitch !!!! i don't like that we can't GUIDE her in her pursuit of that, or at least even try to understand why she's so committed to this horrific warpath she's on. bc why else would i have chosen to join her side and play her route ? why else is Byleth there, as her teacher ?

or maybe i'm not even supposed to sympathize with her or her cause, but they never make that point either ! like let's ignore what i want and entertain the notion that perhaps Edelgard's meant to be seen as clearly, dangerously radical and beyond all reason, that her route is supposed to be as close to a "bad" route as this game gets and you're supposed to feel guilty for helping her. i mean there definitely are points that made me go “uh, hey, what we’re doing here is kind of terrible”. the thing is they could've easily made that point at any time during her route, had moments where they highlighted the destruction left in Edelgard's wake as she "carves a bloody path" to her future with Byleth by her side, had her experience some kind of consequence for her actions or a "falling from grace" moment, exposed all the flawed logic behind her actions and examined how she came to be the way she is--but nothing like that ever happens. it’s just like “hooray we successfully invaded and conquered an independent nation :) on to the next one !” even in the epilogue, there's no downside to helping her win, no sort of realistic consequence like, idk, malcontent spreads, people aren’t happy that Edelgard took over their nation by force despite the reforms, riots flare up, etc etc., nothing that asks the player to stop and think about all this. they play everything straight but then refuse to give it meaning or make sense of any of it

and there's PLENTY of ways to make sense of it. even i can imagine some potential in-universe explanations to a lot of the "why" questions i have about Edelgard--why does she preemptively isolate herself from everyone that hasn't already demonstrated unconditional allegiance to her, why does she refuse to seek other allies or reach out to her peers like Dimitri or Claude for help and yet continue to associate with the dangerous group that is the source of her trauma, why does she rightly question one narrative while she never thinks to question the other, why does she resort to violence so quickly and easily even as she laments it, etc etc. the problem is that *the game itself* doesn't even THINK to try and address any of this, and so it's never able to make a point about any of it

so yeah, the point COULD'VE BEEN that she is too stubborn, too far gone, too caught up in her own narrative to comprehend that her actions are not as necessary as she thinks they are, too self-righteous to see the parallels between herself and Rhea as she needlessly sacrifices countless lives for her cause while she claims that HER life is too important to lose, too stuck in her own head to see the hypocrisy in her denouncement of the nobility and church and their treatment of the masses while SHE, Miss Imperial Royalty herself, throws others' lives away for her war--BUT the point is never made !! there's no statement from that point of view either ! there is literally no message ! Edelgard goes through no character development, positive or negative, despite all the groundwork for it being laid out plainly. she does not get a chance to grow, nor does she ever regress, nor is she ever faced with the consequences of her actions, and so no statement is ever made about her character or anything she represents

all the potential was there for Crimson Flower to have been a really good story, and that's why i'm so frustrated that i'm writing an essay about it. and it didn't HAVE to be a positive one with a happy ending, or even a mixed, bittersweet one, which i think would've been best. it easily could've been a tragic story about like, Byleth witnessing the fall of their misguided student firsthand as they try and fail to reach out to her, powerless to save her from herself as she drifts away from everybody, being forced into a position where her death becomes necessary in order to preserve the lives of others, or something--but it didn't try to do anything like that. it didn't try to do ANYTHING ! in fact, i would say her character is much more compelling in all the other routes where she DIES, if only bc at least then it feels like SOMETHING is being said about her character

the real kicker is that, at the end of Crimson Flower, it's said that Edelgard goes on to abolish the nobility, and yet in the epilogue she remains the emperor, and all your other units of noble birth still...... have noble titles and landholdings. not to mention i can't even be sure if the scene where Byleth's crest disappears is supposed to represent the disappearance of all crests, or just Byleth's ? so like i don't actually know what i'm supposed to think Edelgard accomplished ? what was the point of mindlessly helping her commit war crimes ? if not a character arc, or a plot resolution, or some greater message, or even the world state i was promised to get from siding with her, what exactly am i supposed to get out of this route ???

i keep thinking about how it feels in contrast to her progression in every other route, and to how Dimitri is written. bc when Byleth joins anyone else, Edelgard always dies, as Dimitri does. but unlike with Dimitri, intsys didn't adapt Edelgard's progression to Byleth's presence, beyond the simple facts of whether she wins/loses and lives/dies. what i’ve gathered from the other routes is that they portray her as a senselessly violent, incomprehensible, self-righteous kid with too much power who became consumed by it and then dies/is killed as a natural consequence of her own actions. i was expecting the difference in her route to be that we get to explore her side more and understand her inner workings and what could have led her down this path, and then to either get the chance to make a difference, or to be dragged down with her as a cautionary tale. but she STILL comes across as senselessly violent, incomprehensible, self-righteous and power-trippy, except now i get to enable her, and that’s presented as like, a genuinely wholesome thing ?

my gf has said that it feels like you're not meant to side with Edelgard, just from how poorly written and constructed her entire route is**, and i've been getting the same feeling. having finished it, the whole thing felt hollow. her actions and choices always feel absurd and frustrating because we never get any insight into what she's thinking, there's too much Telling and not enough Showing to back up any of the Telling, there are so many aspects of the route that don't make sense, and there's no ATTEMPT to make them make sense

(**seriously the production value felt so low at times that it got embarrassing to watch. like after part 1, Jeritza just dropped off the face of the planet with no explanation, and no one in the game ever brought him up again or even wondered where he was, not even Edelgard. then the recent game update suddenly added him to my roster right before i was about to finish the route, again with no explanation, and no in-game acknowledgement of this. which can only lead me to believe that Jeritza was actually SUPPOSED to be there the whole time but intsys.... forgot about him ? LIKE... THEY FORGOT TO WRITE THE DEATH KNIGHT INTO EDELGARD'S ROUTE ? WHAT)

in fact, it feels to me a lot like death was always the intended resolution for her character and everything was always written around that, but then they decided that wasn't an appropriate tone/direction to take for a route in which Byleth joins her, but then they weren't even bothered to really revise the route in any meaningful way so they just went "fuck it" and gave us.... whatever this mess is. but if so, if intsys really was so set on having her be this tragic misguided villain, i don't understand why they didn't commit to that narrative in her route as well, instead of just half-assing everything and doing nothing meaningful and wasting my time. hell i don't understand why they even bothered to include an Edelgard route if their hearts clearly weren't in it to begin with. just let her be the villain that you guys obviously wanted her to be and go

but, whatever. at least all the OTHER Black Eagle characters were great

#blog chatter #fe3h chatter #fe3h spoilers #feel free to chime in with thoughts or to fill in any missing information or whatever