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charlie-minion · 3 years

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Could the same SPN finale make a little more sense with some additions/changes?

I’ve had the idea for this post stuck in my head for days now, but with every new conspiracy theory and every new eventuality in the fandom, it became difficult to cool down enough to write something less ship-related and more narrative-focused.

What Supernatural and non-SPN fans have to understand is that a lot of us have expressed disappointment and frustration after 15x20, not because of Destiel (that’s just one part of the whole problem), but because the finale doesn’t make sense. Everything was leading up to something beautifully crafted until the end of 15x19. Beyond that, it’s hard to understand what happened. The story rendered all the character growth irrelevant, invalidated the themes of free will and “family don’t end in blood”, regressed to the original brother codependency they spent 15 years trying to overcome, made a queer non-binary character in a male vessel and a deaf female character basically disposable, and kept the show’s reputation of queerbaiting and misogyny until its very last breath.

That’s not going out with a bang! At least not a positive one. We all were ready to mourn Supernatural, but we wanted to feel proud of its legacy, and somehow TPTB managed to tarnish that legacy in less than 45 minutes. What a way to ruin the other more than 13,600 minutes of story!

It doesn’t matter who is to blame (The CW, Robert Singer, Andrew Dabb). It doesn’t matter why it happened (homophobia, censorship, marketing for Walker, bad writing). What matters is that at the end of the day, the finale that aired is what we got and that’s going to hurt for a long time. It hurts even more when we realize that the same finale could have easily made more sense, even without being perfect.

That’s what I want to do in this post. I want to show you how things would have been less jarring (for the fandom), while still keeping the goal to please the general audience.

Before I begin rewriting 15x20, I have to mention that I talked to my conservative boomer sister about the finale. She hasn’t watched the second half of season 15 yet (she’s waiting for Netflix to have it), but she’s been watching the show for a long time (she introduced me to it 8 years ago). She’s the perfect example of a viewer from the general audience. Loves the show but doesn’t give a second thought to it and definitely isn’t paying attention to character development or themes. Doesn’t engage with fandom, actors, or any of the show’s social media. Pure GA! When I told her the series finale had aired, she asked me about it and I refused to give her spoilers. Because of that, she told me the ending SHE wanted. She said she would be happy with either of two possibilities: the boys retiring and finally living a normal life OR they going to heaven and finding peace at last. She saw Sam and Dean as a unit, which means: both retiring or both going to heaven. AND she saw Cas as part of that, too. She wasn’t so sure about Jack. And for her, we could use the “Eileen who?” and it wouldn’t be a joke. She didn’t remember her.

NOW IT’S TIME TO WRITE A NEW VERSION OF 15X20 (KEEPING 15X18 AND 15X19 EXACTLY THE SAME AS THEY AIRED). This will be a very long post:

The opening remains almost the same. No “Carry on my wayward son” to induce feels. Too soon and too predictable! (Reasoning: Everyone was expecting it to play right there, so it would bring more tears at the end)

In the opening, after the scene where Jack says “People won’t need to pray to me or sacrifice to me”, we also see the scene from 15x19 where he says “I won’t be hands on”. Then we see the rest of the opening as it was. (Reasoning: People needed to be reminded that Jack would NOT intervene and that’s why later on, he would NOT save Dean).

We get the same montage, but when Sam takes a break from his morning run, we see him reading a message on his phone. A simple: “Hey Sam, what’s new?” from Eileen. Sam smiles fondly and begins to type a response we don’t get to see. The next scene continues the same, Sam making breakfast. (Reasoning: A text was a very simple way to show that Eileen was alive and still in communication with Sam).

The montage slowly ends as Sam enters the library (not after he sits down). He seems to be talking on the phone but we only hear an “I’ll tell him. Bye”. As he walks towards the table, he tells Dean: “Charlie says hi. Mentioned something about Stevie’s perfect scrambled eggs we have to try.” Dean’s answer is “Awesome!” (Reasoning: Just ONE line was needed to unbury Charlie and her girlfriend. ONE LINE).

Sam sits down, opens his laptop and everything continues the same. The title card shows for the last time.

YOU SEE? In the first 4 minutes they could have acknowledged that THREE WOMEN were alive and safe: Eileen, Charlie and Stevie. It wasn’t hard! Don’t blame bad writing on Covid! Now let’s continue.

Sam and Dean arrive at the Pie Fest just the same. Dean goes to get some “damn pie” and Sam takes out his phone. He dials and when someone picks up, he says “Hey, Jody, how are ya?” We don’t hear the rest of the conversation. The scene moves to Dean coming with his 6 portions of pie. Dean sits down and Sam tells him, “Talked to Jody. The other hunters haven’t had much work lately.” “That’s good, isn’t it?”, Dean says. All we get from Sam is “Yeah.” So, Dean looks at him and asks “what’s wrong?” like it happened in the episode. (Reasoning: Again, a couple of lines to make sure the people that were killed in 15x18 are safe and remembered by the boys in 15x20. Why is this important? Because they’re family!)

The conversation about Sam’s sad face happens the same. Sam is the one that mentions Cas and Jack. (Reasoning: Because this episode was so Sam-centered, it’s obvious he was the protagonist in the finale. If we see him communicating with Eileen, Charlie, and Jody, then it’s NORMAL, even expected of him to be the one to bring up Cas and Jack). Without these additions, it’s harder for people to understand that most of the finale was NOT from Dean’s POV but from Sam’s.

Dean’s “if we don’t keep living, then all that sacrifice is gonna be for nothing” stays the same. (Reasoning: I believe it’s necessary that the show sticks to the importance of “letting go” and “what is dead should stay dead” for the first time ever because the message is “even when you lose someone you love, you can still find some form of happiness and keep living, for you and for them, because that’s what they would have wanted”. Bringing someone back means “I can’t live without you”, and that’s just more codependency. It’s how the demon deals began in the Winchester family –Mary being the first one to do it. This would explain why Dean didn’t ask Jack to bring Cas back, as he asked Chuck. He understood Jack was NOT going to interfere anymore and accepted it. Besides, when Cas saved Dean from hell, Dean thought he didn’t deserve to be saved. This time that Cas saved him, Dean finally feels worthy enough to accept that YES, HE DESERVED TO BE SAVED ALL ALONG, just as much as he deserved to be loved by that angel of the Lord. In this scene, Dean also says that the pain is not gonna go away, which means that from HIS PERPECTIVE, it still hurts that Cas is not there. The problem is that the finale is not showing his POV but Sam’s.

Sam pies Dean on the face just the same. (Reasoning: That part was just to avoid ending the scene on a sad note).

Everything related to the case happens exactly the same. (Reasoning: At this point, people don’t really care about the MoTW, they care about Sam and Dean).

NOTE 1: The case is important to show that even when the Winchesters are finally free of Chuck’s influence, they CHOOSE to keep hunting. It isn’t something they do out of revenge or because it is their destiny anymore. Maybe they were forced into the life at first, but they’ve learned to find joy in saving people. Being hunters is who they are. However, the fact that a job application was shown on Dean’s desk is also important because it means he was willing to explore what else was there for him besides hunting. Maybe he could find a balance? Maybe he was thinking it was time to quit? We will never know! The thing is that Sam only finds out about it when he goes into Dean’s room after his brother is dead, so maybe that’s when it hits him that Dean wanted to explore his options, and Sam starts to think it’s time for him to do the same.

NOTE 2: I believe the masks the vampires are wearing is something we can blame on covid. If they had their faces covered, it was easier to use people from the SPN crew for some scenes, instead of using more actors unnecessarily.

NOTE 3: When Sam and Dean arrive at the barn, we get 3 visuals to remember Cas in the same scene (those are for the fandom, not for the general audience): a) the barn, obviously; b) the bag that resembles Cas’ trenchcoat so much that many people thought that’s what it was; and c) two feathers hanging on Dean’s right when he opens the trunk.

The scene with the throwing star happens the same. (Reasoning: The episode is still told from Sam’s point of view, so it makes sense that he fondly sees his brother as a man child).

Jenny the vampire? Uhhh… I mean, it’s not the best piece of writing I’ve ever seen, but it’s not the worst, so okay. That stays the same. (Reasoning: There is none, but she’s not what really ruined the finale, so whatever!)

Dean still dies impaled on a rebar. (Reasoning: OK. HERE ME OUT!!! I hate as much as everyone else that Dean is killed. I think it’s lazy writing, but that’s what we got and I can’t change that in this re-write, so if killing Dean is what we have to work around, then, memes aside, death by rebar is better and here’s why. There’s no one to blame for Dean’s death: no Chuck (the boys were willingly hunting even after Chuck was defeated), no vampires (they were all killed and were no real threat, so it was impossible for Sam to begin a quest for revenge against all vampires. What was Sam going to blame? A rebar? Can you kill it? Hunt it? NO. It was an ordinary death, a stupid accident. Just like any person can die at any moment by slipping on a banana peel. Is it a good death? No, but it’s good to know he doesn’t die trying to save Sam or Cas, because Dean Winchester is NOT willing to give up his life in exchange for anyone else’s anymore.

Sam takes out his phone and says he’ll call for help, but his phone is more visible to the audience. He dials and it’s almost to his ear when Dean stops him and Sam hesitantly hangs up. (Reasoning: People have complained that Sam didn’t call an ambulance, but actually he tried to. It’s just that people missed that part, maybe?)

After Sam puts his phone back in his pocket and says “OK” to Dean, he adds, “I’ll pray to Jack”. Dean’s immediate answer is: “No hands on, remember?” “But Dean”, Sam says, and Dean interrupts him with “OK listen to me” and tells Sam what to do with the kids they rescued. (Reasoning: Jack is God now and how come Sam didn’t remember? The viewers remembered, so it was necessary to include a line that ruled the option out and that showed Dean didn’t want Jack to intervene. The rest was fine).

The lines “You knew it was always gonna end like this for me. It was supposed to end like this, right?” disappear completely from Dean’s monologue. (Reasoning: This is the most problematic part of Dean’s dying speech. He fought God and earned free will, he is no longer controlled by fate or destiny. Accepting that he is supposed to die on a hunt regresses his character development and denies his desire to keep living. This was a total mistake and should be removed).

Instead, if going to heaven is the ending TPTB wanted to give Dean, at least he should say something more empowering. Sam tells him that both of them are going to take the kids somewhere safe. Dean answers and the scene follows like this: “No. Sammy, we made our choice, didn’t we?”, he smiles with difficulty. “We were free to write our own story and we did. We decided to keep saving people, hunting things. Because it’s what we love despite the risks.” (Reasoning: If Dean’s going to die it doesn’t have to feel like it was always meant to be that way. He should die knowing that he exerted his free will until his last breath).

The rest of the dialogue between Sam and Dean happens almost the same. Except that instead of Dean saying “‘cause when it all came down to it, it was always you and me. It’s always been you and me”, he says “’cause when it all came down to it, we’ve always had each other’s backs. Always.” And instead of Sam saying “Don’t leave me”, he says “I still can try to save you.” (Reasoning: It sounds way less codependent without diminishing the importance of their love and support for each other).

Besides, let’s change Dean’s “I’m not leaving you” for “You don’t have to be alone. You’ve still got family.” The rest stays the same word by word. (Reasoning: Dean reminds Sam that “family don’t end in blood” and there are still lots of people out there who love Sam and will be with him).

“I love you so much, my baby brother” stays exactly the same. (Reasoning: Dean always had trouble to express the big L word. I always believed and said many times that before Dean could say “I love you” to Cas or any other character, he had to say it to Sam. So, this is important as part of Dean speaking his truth).

The last part when Dean insists Sam tell him that it’s okay stays the same. (Reasoning: It’s the final moment when the codependency cycle breaks. No more running in circles).

The forehead touch between them stays the same. (Reasoning: I think I would do something similar if my sister were dying. I know there are w*ncest shippers out there, but it shouldn’t matter because the moment feels appropriate for that kind of goodbye).

See? There are changes but not too many. That’s why I’ve been saying that it was easier to get it right, yet they still managed to screw it up.

The second montage stays the same. (Reasoning: Life goes on, but of course Sam has to mourn).

The call about a case in Austin remains the same. (Reasoning: It’s the only part of the episode where someone from the found family is mentioned, so I think that Donna’s name is perfect in that moment. However, without the other additions I’ve made in this re-write, that off-hand mention feels too little. Its purpose was to tell the viewers that if Donna was alive, so were the others, but the way the episode was executed gave us an isolated Sam, incapable of having friends and a family without Dean).

After 30 minutes of Sam’s POV, let’s finally see the last bit of Dean’s POV that we’ll ever get.

Dean arrives in Heaven and Bobby receives him. All their conversation stays almost the same, except that after mentioning Rufus and before saying “and your mom and dad…”, Bobby adds an “Ellen and Jo let me borrow their place”. (Reasoning: If you’re gonna put the man outside the Harvelle’s place, at least mention them for Jack’s sake!).

Besides, after Bobby tells Dean that Sam will be along and that time in heaven is different, Dean gives a small smile and says, “Well, there’s no rush. I want him to have a long, happy life.” Bobby answers with: “I would expect nothing less from you, boy” and tells him he got everything he could ever want, etc., just like it happened in the episode, and finishes by asking “What are you gonna do now, Dean?” (Reasoning: It’s important we know for sure that Dean is NOT codependent anymore and that he doesn’t expect to have a miserable afterlife just because his brother is not there yet).

Instead of saying “I think I’ll go for a drive” Dean says, “I think I know what I want” and walks towards baby. Bobby still tells him to have fun. (Reasoning: “Know what I want” is ambiguous enough to help us introduce the last piece of the puzzle, the one thing Dean’s wanted for many seasons and has never been able to express).

The biggest change is coming:

Dean gets on the Impala and has a moment of silence while he contemplates the wheel. He begins to pray: “Hey, Cas, you got your ears on? I hear you’ve been busy working on this updated Heaven with Jack. You were right about him, Cas. You had faith in him and he saved us all. You could always see the best in everyone, even when they couldn’t see it themselves. Even when I couldn’t see it myself. There’s so much I want to tell you. Maybe you can visit sometime. I hope prayer’s still a thing up here.” (Reasoning: Dean’s side of the confession was unaddressed and that was terrible writing. If there was no way to get him to speak his truth textually, at least take him as close to it as possible).

We listen to a flutter of wings and a “Hello, Dean” from the back seat. We don’t see Cas, but the camera shows us Dean’s cocky smile and he says “Took you long enough.” He turns around slowly. End of scene. (Reasoning: The flutter of wings confirms that angels have their wings back and ties that loose end. The final “hello, Dean” was highly anticipated and it made sense. If Misha couldn’t be there to film, for whatever reason, or if the problem was the kind of conversation Dean and Cas would have, then don’t show it, but leave the door open. Let us know that the two characters were reunited and will talk, but whatever Dean has to say is so private that it’s not for us to hear, only for Cas.

We finally hear “Carry on my wayward son” and get a montage that begins with Sam playing with his kid. Then we see Dean driving, super happy, and Sam living his life to the fullest. We still get Sam’s Blurry Wife, BUT… we see pictures of Eileen in the living room (not just of John, Mary, Sam, and Dean). We also see photos of Jody, Donna, Charlie, and AU!Bobby. (Reasoning: FAMILY DON’T END IN BLOOD).

The scene where Sam is wearing the party wig and looks miserable inside the Impala is cut and nobody talks about it ever again because it never existed. We get a scene of Sam teaching his son how to fix the car instead. (Reasoning: First of all, don’t give Sam a life where years later he’s still in pain. Second of all, the fucking wig was a crime).

Sam’s dying scene stays the same. The only thing is that his son signs a couple of phrases to him before actually speaking. (Reasoning: More confirmation that Dean Jr. is Eileen’s son).

We hear the final “Evanescence-like Carry on my wayward son”. Again we see the photos and there’s family other than the Winchesters there. (Reasoning: Obvious at this point).

The rest is exactly the same. The show began with two brothers and it’s okay if the last scene is with the two brothers reunited in Heaven. At this point, the other parts of the story are acceptable enough for us to feel happy that they get to see each other again after years of a happy (after)life.

Now look me in the eye and tell me this was too hard to execute. I still think that bad writing is a thing we can’t deny here, adding to the possible meddling of the Network. Maybe Dabb wanted us to hate the finale because he couldn’t get away with what he truly wanted. If that was his intention, then kudos to him. He and The CW really gave us a finale that only 30% of the fandom liked.

I hope you guys have enjoyed this and it helps to give you some peace of mind. In my heart, this was the finale we got. It wasn’t perfect, but it didn’t drop the ball either.

#supernatural #15x20 #spn 15x20 #spn finale #rewrite #dean winchester #dean deserved better #cas deserved better #destiel #the characters deserved better #we deserved better #it was easier to get it right #yet they screwed up big time #alternate ending

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assassinshadow17 · 3 years

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Alright so we lost big, not even a hug or barely interaction at all. Also wtf is up with Oliver’s regression these past few episodes? I swear the poor boy is getting shafted for no reason! I’m keeping him as my 3rd fav because I know he’s a good kid(see S4 and other previous moments) and cares for Cooper the most of ANYONE. All of a sudden he is more concerned about the flunking of his SAT’S? And his whole life goal is now thrown away(Harvard) just because the app is a huge success? I’m just not actually lol.

But Cooper, poor boy, I felt so bad for him. But am glad Katie stood up for him in the end and Cooper got to stay.

We really need a Season 6 after this. Well decent season friends!

Rankings for Top 3 episodes:

Numero uno - Episode 1 was my personal favorite of this season(funny cause it wasn’t even supposed to be apart of Season 5) It was emotional and very opening for Oliver, he cares a ton for Cooper and it showed. Cooper cared for Oliver and his family. The hurt was shown and we all felt it. 10/10 best episode of the season.

#2 - Episode 3, need a I say more? Coupling? Heck yes! Lmao middle-aged couple fighting all the time lol.

#3 - Episode 9, I loved how Oliver cared for Cooper in finding his passion. Also Anna-Kat/Franklin helping too. Funny moments and Cooliver content! “Defend my honor” “Your outfit looks fire” Personal as well with Cooper always having a kind heart to him, even if he was at his weakest back in Season 1. Oliver mentioned how Cooper became friends with him, and the Cooper back in Season 1, was much more rude and really care-free of others’ feelings.

Further rankings:

#4/#5/#6 - Episode 8, Episode 10, Episode 5. Fine episodes, but in terms of plot direction, I found it kind of weak(I know I said I loved Episode 10, but looking back it could have been better, especially with Cooliver) Episode 5 was an underwhelming bore too, even if tried to be serious. Episode 8 was super wholesome and I loved how Cooper was shown to appreciate his In-Laws!

#7/#8/#9 - Episode 2, Episode 13, Episode 7. These weren’t terrible episodes, but they just were lackluster and this Finale could have been ALOT better. Oliver was shafted as hell and not even a hug(seriously writers?) Episode 2 started the App storyline, wow who cares lmao. Although it did give “Not my boyfriend” so that’s funny. Episode 7 didn’t have Cooper either so dunked points for that lol. No seriously that episode moved nothing and I forgot what the point of it was LOL. Taylor was funny and a good sister to Oliver though!

#10/#11 - Episode 6, Episode 4. Pretty weak episodes, Not much to say but nothing really happened. I did love how Cooper’s growth shined more though. And Oliver/Cooper shaking each other LOL.

#12/#13 Episode 11, Episode 12. Should I say more than beyond Lindsay and Audra?

#cooliver #american housewife #rankings #cooper bradford #oliver otto #katie otto #taylor otto #anna-kat otto

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supercharmed-forever-mine · 3 years

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On the rating of 10, how do you rate the writing of each legacies characters, why and who deserves better? What aspects should be improved?

I updated some of the opinion for clarity and also added Finch because I forgot her originally

I'll just make a list and go down it and I'm sorry in advance I love responding but I'm horrible at grammar/punctuation and also I might tend to ramble but I'll try to be as concise as possible. It should also be noted anything I state that might possibly relate to ships is a personal opinion and I have nothing against any ships/characters gay or straight/Good or Evil. However would it be said that I definitely mean more towards the gay/Badass with a Golden heart side of shipping with any fandom.

Hope Mikaelson- As of now I would rate her writing at about a 6. And I only say that because as we know a majority of her characters personality slightly has always but this season especially related to her relationship with Landon. And I wish we would see the Badass Tribrid Hope we've been promised since season 1 I mean sure there are no lack of examples of her bravery and martyrdom. But I am tired of her always feeling down on herself and like she's a cosmic mistake when it has literally been proven by Lizzie's wish in season 1 that their life would be infinitely shittier without her. What they can do to improve it is have her focus on friendship and herself instead of trying to always focus on Landon. She deserves more than just to be a boy obsessed character I mean she's the daughter of Klaus F****** Mikaelson for Pete sakes she literally descends from the most powerful supernatural family ever to exist and is rightfully the most powerful being on the f****** planet.

Note: I found Handon's relationship cutesy in season 1 but now not so much especially since they use him dying as a plot line way too often it just doesn't have the same effect that used to***

Josie Saltzman-As of now I would rate her writing at about an 8. I like how her character at least for a while had her own storyline going off the mystic falls High School plotline and how she lived with delena because it was a good call back for us TVD fans but I think it could have definitely lasted longer than a few episodes. We all know it was just used as a lot device to introduce Ethan as a series regular and as an introduction for her to Finch's character. But overall I feel throughout the seasons she has experienced at least some personal growth as exhibited even in 3x15 where she admitted she has to stop saying sorry especially to Lizzie for not always jumping to do what she needs / she wants all the time. Whereas before Android AU version aside because she literally had to do what she was programmed to do. She has an exhibited that she's starting to do what she needs to do for Josie before others most of the time or she's trying to. And as far as her relationship to Finch well I don't see them being endgame I have no problem with them and I do see Finch being one of her major loves of the series that teaches her whatever lesson she needs that leads her to whoever her endgame love is. With her relationships I will always miss Posie and I wish they could get Lulu back at least just for one episode. Also I feel these last two episodes of the girls being a trio they have a really Been serving Hosie with the looks but also I feel like in general Josie and Hope have been really in f****** tune. In conclusion I just don't know because Kaylee's acting skills and just turning general I would rate a billion she could choke me and I would literally thank her.

Lizzie Saltzman-as of now I would rate her at about a 7. I feel as if she has had great personal growth over the series and hell even this season. I also like hell despite everything in her life especially her eternal struggle with her mental illness she is always trying to do better and not just for herself but mainly for others and some people would say that's not good but I like it because it truly shows what she stated in 1x03 during the gargoyle incident that she never wants to be the bad or evil one. She has all this s*** thrown at her being called broken, being seen as the lesser than sister, and not to mention the absentee parents. Yet through all this she manages to only get stronger especially once she builds a genuine friendship with hope. However what I will say is that I don't like the regression of her friendship with Hope in correlation to her progress of especially her mental illness. And what I mean by that is it's almost been shown that once she had even the seeds of a true friendship with Hope that Hope would never give up on her hell not but like even an episode or two into their newly formed friendship in S1 Hope went to Josie when she Lizzie was on the verge of a bad episode and "sweet" Josie was basically like fuck her she needs to fall on her ass for once and Hope ass was appalled y'all she was like Lizzie can't control her brain chemistry and was so defensive/protective it's like once they got over that hurdle that mainly Josie gave them everything clicked into place and they were almost instant bff's. So for them to do so good in season 2 and then it seems like it showed especially in these last several episodes black magic incident to bring Landon back aside that Lizzie's old issues of resentment and jealousy towards hope are starting to come back and I don't like that because the more Lizzie had A Friend in Hope it seems like the better she got at coping and doing better mentally.(sorry if this has been a confusing several sentences). And no by that I do not mean that Lizzie is mental progress has solely relied on Hope but I do think it has helped significantly for her to have a true friend. Also let it be noted now out of every ship though I should Hosie too HIZZIE is my #1 ship on Legacies two phenomenally beautiful woman also the enemies to friends to lovers trope *chef's kiss*which might be plausible as I always wondered what they meant in the Hosie crush confession scene of season 1 when Josie said that she always went after everybody josie liked hinting that Lizzie might be at least bisexual or maybe that was just what Josie perceived at like 12/13 years old. Also on the note of relationships Mizzie was a cute concept at the beginning but I do love the fact that MG is finally finding himself and standing up for himself but he did also do it and I kind of a******-ish way towards Lizzie. And that's all I can say for her. Actually I could probably write a novel on this women and also Hizzie but I won't lol.

Alaric Saltzman- As of now I would give him a rating of like a 4 . In the last several episodes I think he's been trying to make progress at being a better person but that's about all I can say I'm not an anti. But he definitely will not be winning the father of the year award anytime soon and like many people have pointed out he was a great guardian to Elena and Jeremy so he has the potential in parenting he obviously just ain't using it or lost it over the decades. I don't hate him but I do believe they're doing a discredit towards the better man he was in The vampire Diaries especially at the beginning.

Landon Kirby-His writing is like a 3. He is just there to be arm candy for hope. Until the last couple episodes where he became this for once realistic not optimistic hardened badass he literally brought nothing to The season other than someone for Hope to obsess over. And to be someone that they repeatedly kill for shock value even though it literally shocks no one anymore. I don't hate his character but he doesn't tickle My Fancy as much anymore. His character has a lot of potentialy especially if they ever bring back in his Phoenix side and truly explore it beyond his almost endless ability to revive and being a "Bird Boy" lol. I mean truthfully they're doing him a disservice Aria is a phenomenal actor who could take his character places if they just let him be more than a basic ass plot device. Also can we talk about how gorgeous of a man Aria is especially in these last few episodes looking love it and fine as f***.

As it has become apparent to me I ramble too much and I just don't have the capacity as it is now almost 1:00 in the morning my time to do anymore characters in depth so I will be doing a simple excerpt for the rest now that I have done the main 5 people.

Kaleb Hawkins- His writing is a 8. I do like how he's coming to himself over the years and is a a right hand man to Alaric now instead of being just a uncontrollable vampire(the only hate on this part not towards Kaleb but Alaric is that it shows he will virtually mentor/uplift almost any teen that ain't his own daughters). Though in my opinion he always kind of had a point on some things especially about the hypocrisy of Alaric in season 1 especially on the bmood drinking thing. Him and Mg's relationship is awesome I'm glad they made up in the last episode and our brothers again. Also I was rooting for him and Cleo I think they would be a cute little couple. Also I need his backstory immediately especially after saying to Cleo the last time he was vulnerable he died I need to know how he turned.

Milton Greasley(MG)- His writing is a 9 the season. I say that because he is really came into his own and stopped being the punching bag. Though I think the idea or used to think at least that him and Lizzie would be cute together I am proud of him for standing up to Lizzie finally even though I liked him always being there for her I was tired of him being a fallback for her when it didn't work with whoever however I do think he could have went about the rejection a little bit gentler especially with how he knows of Lizzie's emotional problems. And don't even get me started on Alyssa that was just a disaster that should have never even been brought to fruition her cheating with Jed was probably the best thing that could have happened. I liked his little side adventure with Ethan though I do think they could have wrote it a little better I was sad when he had to compel the memories away like they still could have been friends he just couldn't have known about the supernatural stuff also I'm still not convinced Ethan won't become supernatural later in the series if he stays on. And that's all I have to say on that one love my baby.

Jed Tien-His writing I can't really give a writing I don't think it's horrible but I do think overall they could give him a better plot line as a series regular other than just being used for the comical relief eye candy/mentioning how he's the alpha. Though it was funny the whole pool tournament to decide who was alpha will Finch was just exactly that so bad it was laughable. However I do respect the fact that he even admitted to her that he knew she threw the game and that he is a genuine man of his word and has become better over the series from like this dumb jock stereotype to this genuine dude the Alyssa incident aside. He is a cinnamon roll and I will protect him at all cost.

Ethan- Again as he just became a series regular this season and barely showed up in his premiere season. I will not be rating him in any traditional sense. His writing is not totally horrible I liked his adventures with mg they could have been written better and they still could have let him be MG's friend without supernatural knowledge instead of compelling the friendship completely away. And I am still not convinced he will not become supernatural in some way depending on how long he stays in the series truthfully it's actually almost inevitable unless they go the whole route of making him the Matt/Token Human of the show which I really hope they don't I mean he can stay human but don't make him a supernatural hater.

Cleo-her writing is 10. I say that because she has been a phenomenal character and I've never seen the actress before but she is obviously phenomenal as well. I like her whole connection to Malivore and how it's a legitimate one that seems to be interwoven with the story that's already been presented and add something new. I also like how she tried and really wanted to genuinely be friends with all the characters especially hope but at the same time she was also very realistic and new probably and truthfully the only way for Malivore to be defeated was for Hope to Go full Tribrid and she wasn't above actually trying to murder hope to save herself and just get rid of Malivore which I can't blame her.

Malivore-after the end of season 3 / the first couple episodes of season 4 which were supposed to be the original ending to season 3 I better never hear the name again I am so tired of it this should have ended like at least a season ago at this point it's dragging on. This was supposed to be a monster of the week type of series which is okay me personally I have always appreciated having one big bad of the season and then a couple of minor baddies that get their characters arcs and take a few episodes to defeat or something as like a B or C plot. Point being is that this character and plot line has gotten stiff as can be. To be honest I think half of us aren't even here for plot line anymore we just want to see which of our ships get together.

Finch-I am loving her character and I do think she's cute with Josie. Also I stan anyone who is a sarcastic b**** Queen. I think it's nice how her will backstory was different than the traditional one but also I hated how sad it was like she literally didn't even know what she was doing. Though I will say calling Lizzie the "evil" twin that she can fight me because you don't talk about my blonde cinnamon roll like that is based on one impression from something that was only meant and done out of a good place and Lizzie's heart trying to find out her backstory. But other than that I have no real qualms with this character and it is too early to have a real in-depth analysis/opinion of her.

Thank you for reading this long rant hope I answered your question well enough if not PM me on anything specific.

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mythoughtsaretroubled · 4 years

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Haven and Leverage and OT3s

Leverage has such a competent ot3 and Haven had such a dysfunctional ot3… honestly it’s almost like they are on opposite ends of a spectrum

Spoilers for both shows ahead

Obviously, Leverage has the better ot3. For one, the creators confirmed they are canonically in a relationship. Secondly, they are all alive in canon. Third, they communicate, which may sound wild but it’s true.

But Haven… Haven has the perfect set up. A more traditional love triangle, where two men are in love with the same women with the added bonus of a complicated history and amazing chemistry. So it’s right there. Dare I say, it could have been epic. But instead of growing together as individuals and as partners, they form a very unhealthy relationship with no established boundaries where not everyone is viewed equally.

(disclaimer: I actually haven’t finished s5 of Haven, although I do many spoilers. I’ve also been in the fandom for a significantly shorter period of time.)

So here is a look at what Leverage did to succeed and Haven did to fail.

(this got very long)

In Leverage, Parker and Hardison have the traditional romance in Leverage. They don’t rush into a relationship and Hardison respects Parker’s boundaries. He repeatedly let’s her know that he is her friend and her partner and never makes her feel uncomfortable about their relationship. In season 1, The Stork Job, when Parker expresses self doubt, Hardison tells her he likes how she turned out. He also tell her that their crew is “a little bit more than a team,” a line she repeats back to him at the end of the episode. His support of her has been unwavering from the start and he has never made her feel like she should be anything other than herself and never uses his feelings for her to manipulate her or guilt her into any choices.

Parker’s support of Hardison looks different. She constantly talks about how smart he is, how competent he is, and at one point, how empathetic and good he is. She admires him and respects him. She brags about his hacking skills to even Nate, who knows how competent he is. He is the first person she calls for help to contact the team in The Inside Out Job. She trusts him and he has given her every reason to and never doubt him. They are stable and consistent and neither one prioritizes their feelings over the other.

Now we add in Eliot, and his relationships with Parker and Hardison. Eliot and Hardison bicker like an old married couple, but when they are in a serious situation, they work together and trust each other’s abilities and take the lead from the other when the situation calls for it. While they might tease each other and snipe at each other, it’s never with any malice. They don’t manipulate each other and have honest conversations. They also grow more open with physical affection, when Eliot is at first shown adverse to it, he knows it is comforting to Hardison, and even a few times, to himself. And, like with Parker, Hardison never pushes Eliot into any vulnerable positions and instead allows Eliot to know he is there for when he wants to open up further, like in The Low Price Job, where Eliot shares his past with his dad with Hardison. They also trust that the other will help them if they are ever in need, full stop. And if there is a shared adversary, they always gang up on them together, like with Sterling, although they do this as early as The Homecoming Job (1x02). They never doubt they other is on their side.

Eliot and Parker have a relationship that reads the least romantic to the outside observer. They don’t have many one on one scenes, unlike Parker and Hardison and Eliot and Hardison, but they do have more in common with each other than Hardison. As the hitter and the thief, they have the most physically demanding jobs and the darkest pasts. They also have the most implied trauma in their past, Parker in her childhood (see The Future Job) and Eliot in his life as a solider (see The Experimental Job). They understand the darker side of the other because they share that. In The Long Way Down Job, Parker tells Eliot she wants to do the right thing. And Eliot tells her that looking out for themselves is not a bad or wrong thing. He says, “it’s what makes us us.” He doesn’t make her feel guilty, he just states facts, which Parker understands. Their bond is incredibly strong and filled with understanding.

As a team, all three of them work together. They have inside jokes, they spend time together outside their jobs,

Their relationship started with respect for how competent each was at their job, which grew to trust, and then grew to love. They became a family. There was no jealousy of their relationships with each other, no one tried to undermine the relationships of the other two. And while they may not spend much time on screen talking about their relationships, we do see them have very important conversations that explicitly state their feelings, which are supported by what we have previously seen.

Now Haven.

Audrey and Nathan start out as adorable. They have a friendship where they tease each other and push each other out of their boundaries, but always with their support. They are great in season 1 and season 2. They even support each other’s romantic relationships (ie Jess and Chris). There are hints of jealousy, like in Roots, when Nathan is a little on edge that Audrey is with Chris, but nothing outward and toxic. But here’s where it starts to go off the rails. As cute as it is that Nathan can only feel Audrey, he becomes fixated on her (who can blame him, he’s touch starved). While this isn’t a big deal in the first two seasons and rather a romantic tidbit, this friendship and fixation turns into an obsession by season 3, so much so that he takes away agency from her. Now she does start by pushing him away when she finds out she is leaving in a certain amount of time, so she is also to be blamed. The lack of communication between them goes both ways in season 3. And he starts dating Jordan, while still prioritizing Audrey during their relationship. So much so, he cheats on Jordan with Sarah, the previous incarnation of Audrey. While there is an ongoing level of trust and respect between them, the lack of communication in season three completely derails their relationship, causing Nathan to reverse Audrey’s decision to go into the Barn by shooting Agent Howard and then trying to convince her to shoot him in season 4.

Their relationship would have been more meaningful and powerful had we seen them stay partners who leaned on each other and listened instead of bulldozing over the other’s choices and acting like their love was justification for doing bad things.

Onto Audrey and Duke, who were set up to be the foil to Nathan and Audrey. There are episodes in season 1 where Duke is absent. They were set up to fail. And despite Audrey’s affection towards Duke, she takes her lead from Nathan and uses her power as a police officer to get him to talk to her from the beginning. While she eases up on using her power as an officer, she does use his feelings for her to manipulate him, like in The Farmer, where she guilts him into killing a man. The narrative pushes this idea that Duke has unrequited love for Audrey, and then shows how she uses his feelings. While we see them trust each other, Audrey proves she doesn’t respect Duke to make his own choices. Duke is also expected to put Audrey first and himself second but condemned whenever he tries to put himself first. Their relationship has a huge imbalance and is quite unhealthy in the later seasons.

Their dynamic could have been solved if Audrey spent more time considering Duke and his point of view instead of her own perspective and the greater good. If she acknowledged his feelings and they communicated what they wanted and needed from each other, they would have been a solid couple.

Now Duke and Nathan are up next. Out of all the dynamics, this had the most wasted potential. Even ignoring the fact that they are not acknowledged in or out of verse as romantically involved, there is a fair amount of what can be interpreted as queerbaiting. Ignoring that and looking at what happens in canon, Nathan and Duke have an undefined history. Duke carried Nathan to the hospital when he broke his arm and they were 8. The same year, Duke bullied Nathan by putting thumbtacks in his back. Duke also attempted to put a snake in Nathan’s locker when they were teenagers. That’s all we know about the events of their past of 25 years, so they don’t trust each other at the start of the show. They don’t respect each other and they certainly don’t communicate. However, there are moments throughout the show where we see them become friends and support each other, like in Resurfacing or Friend or Faux. Every time their relationship develops, Nathan reverts back to the grudges he held and the pain Duke caused as a child. In Sins of the Father, Duke rejects his father and tells him he stands with Audrey and Nathan cause they are his friends. Then we see in 301 that Nathan got the tattoo that is supposed to be on the man who kills Duke. All of their moments are undermined by not acknowledging their growth and reverting back to the dynamic they had in the beginning of season 1. By season 4, when they are finally consistently friends, Nathan takes Duke for granted and invalidates his feelings and his relationship with Audrey, particularly by claiming Audrey loves Nathan most so killing him would destroy the Troubles.

If their relationship had steadily progressed instead of consistently regressing for the first three seasons and Nathan had valued Duke as much as Duke valued his, their relationship would have thrived. and could have been one of the foundations of the show.

None of the dynamics within this trio are healthy, and together they only exacerbate each other’s flaws. If they had grown together, progressed as a team, trusted and respected each other, and communicated their feelings, as an ot3, they could have been unstoppable, even without canon confirmation. Not to mention, Nathan and Audrey often worked as a unit and then clued Duke in instead of him being included from the start, creating unbalanced power dynamic and fostering jealousy and exclusion within.

The relationships in Haven were not treated with the same respect and consistency as the ones in Leverage so the negative emotions overflowed the positive ones and never let the characters flourish in their relationships. However, the essence of their dynamics and many of their scenes lead viewers to find solace in fixing these dynamics and letting them flourish in fanfiction the way they never did in canon. Haven had all of the potential and none of the follow through. In Leverage, the characters came first and the relationships came second, which made the relationships richer and more dynamic as well as stable. There was also more consistency in how they developed.

While all relationships, ot3s included, should be unique, if creating the one in Haven had looked to Leverage for guidance, there could have been more hope for a functional and healthy dynamic within the show.

please feel free to comment, add or contradict me, I’d love to hear other people’s thouhgts.

tagging: @leverage-ot3 @clearskiesandmistyeyes @honoraryplantking @kitsparrow @abstractfondness @music-rider @would-we-be-friends-if-i @doctortreklock

#haven syfy #leverage #havensyfy #alec hardison #audrey parker #duke crocker #nathan wuornos #eliot spencer #parker #this is 1875 words in case anyone wanted to know #this is also very on brand for me #dont trust english majors to watch shows #i tried to tag everyone #but some names didnt show up #sorry #my writing #my meta

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edelweiss123 · 4 years

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It still baffles me...

...that the writers of a kid's show who were willing to blatantly address various heavy topics on-screen such as revenge, war, torture, racism, famine, sexism, ableism, child abuse, abandonment, and fucking GENOCIDE, with gravity and aplomb...

...still somehow thought that "literal 12-year-old doesn't end up with his first crush" would be a deal-breaker. Like...?

Okay. First, a disclaimer. I am a die-hard Zutara shipper. I'm also really fond of MaiLee and Taang, independent of that, and really don't care for Maiko, but that's topic for a different post. None of the points I’m going to go over have anything to do with those pairings.

But EVEN IF I didn't feel that there were far better canon characters for Katara and Aang to end up with respectively...

Kataang, as it is written in canon, is sad and weird and uncomfortable to me, and here's why:

The Dynamic

Maybe if the characters had been, say, 16 and 18 when they first met, this wouldn't be a problem. But Aang is 12 and Katara's 14. And their maturity gap is far larger than a mere two years.

Aang, despite being well traveled and the burden of Avatarhood on his shoulders, is also a very *young* 12. Remember, up until the iceberg, he's lived a pretty idyllic, mostly responsibilty free life. He's only known he was the Avatar for like, a month, tops, before that. Sure, the other monk children don't play with him after this reveal, but it's well established he has friends all over the globe; he's a prodigy, yes, with all the pressure that can bring, but it doesn't appear he was pushed to master air so fast? He just very much enjoys airbending. And Gyatso is a loving guardian.

Which is why he runs away at the first sign of something difficult in his life--the possibility of losing Gyatso.

Compare this to Katara, who was born in a hostile landscape amongst a struggling people. She is, as far as she knows, the last of her kind, with no teacher to guide her. She suffers a traumatic loss young, and it is *explicitly stated in the show* that she stepped up to fill her mother's shoes at what, 7? 8? While her family grieved. Her father leaves, possibly to never return, when she is 11. She is laden with responsibility beyond her years. Her time and energy are not for her to spend on herself--she has too much to do. *She is not a child*

So of *course* she starts mothering this wide-eyed cheerful boy, who got taken away by the same people who murdered her mother within a day of meeting him. He's the Avatar but he's also an innocent kid in need of protection and care.

Now, does that mean she never acts immature? No--she *is* still a teenager, and prone to occasional bouts of typical teenager dumbassery. (see: waterbending scroll). But she does most of the chores and nags the others about their misbehavior and tries to console them when when they're down. She literally poses as Aang's mother at a PTA meeting. For fucks sake, at the end of Season 2, when she's holding a dead Aang sprawled in her arms and looking pleadingly at the sky, there is NO WAY you can convince me all those art students storyboarding that scene WEREN'T making an intentional reference to *La Pieta*--You know, that super famous statue where Mary is cradling her dead Savior son (before he gets resurrected) and that is widely considered one of the most poignant examples of MOTHERLY LOVE AND GRIEF in the whole WORLD.

And I don't know about you... but it's really, really creepy to me for a *romantic* relationship to result from something with that much mother/son energy deliberately coded into the show.

The Lack Of Development

At what point does Katara reciprocate the crush? It's very well established that Aang has a crush, of course. But we've got 61 episodes and basically no definitive evidence that Katara feels anything for Aang beyond platonic affection. There's the time a fortune teller says she'll marry a powerful bender and she's like, 'huh' (let's ignore the fact that Aang at the time is like the only powerful bender she really knows). There's the time she (almost?) kisses Aang in a cave because, you know, she thinks they might stay lost forever and starve to death if she doesn't (romantic!)

The other two times Aang kisses her--she's just kind of shocked after the first one, and gets mad after the second one because she *had just expressed a desire to not do so seconds before* And the fourth kiss is in the literal last 30 seconds of the show, with no dialogue, no lead-up, just a fade to black "welp this is happening, aaaand, SCENE." It very, very much has the feeling of "hero gets the prize/girl" instead of "two people who have been mutually longing for each other come together", and that's really, really gross to me. It does such a disservice to both their characters, but Katara's especially. It feels like she had no agency in this result, that they got together because Aang wanted it so much, but it matters so little what she wanted that we don’t even need to bother showing her wanting it.

The Stunting/Regression of Character Growth

What does Aang sacrifice? The answer? Nothing. 'Now, wait a minute', I can hear you say, 'he lost his entire people and culture! How can you say he's lost nothing!' I didn't say he's never suffered *loss*. But having something taken away from you and giving something up for another's sake are two entirely different things. Aang, in the end, gets everything he wanted--the girl he wanted, his pacifist morals intact and unchallenged, his culture eventually restored. Hell, he even somehow gets the Avatar State, despite never explaining how he manages it when it was EXPLICITLY STATED he couldn't do so without letting go of certain attachments. Wow, guess it turns out he never needed to sort out all of his emotional trauma to acheive inner peace and enlightenment after all--just needed a good acupressure session to get those chakras flowin'! One quick magic whack to the back!

I don't think 'the hero is always right' is a good message. The theme of 'just because you want something doesn't necessarily mean it's what's good for you, or others' is a pretty recurring theme throughout the rest of the show, and having the universe warp itself to accomodate the beliefs of the protagonist (lookin' at you, deus-ex-machina turtle) so he is always right, no matter what, means that he never has to reevaluate his beliefs, never really has to *grow* as a character.

Kya, Ursa, Yue, Iroh, Hakoda, Katara, Sokka, Zuko--hell, even Toph, who makes the decision to let Appa get taken so she can save her friends...

Over and over it's shown that Love is Sacrifice, and I think Aang should have been shown making some personal sacrifices for the sake of the world, instead of showing that the power of clinging to his absolutist morals is enough to solve all his problems.

I understand why the writers, despite showing many characters die off-screen, hesitated to show Aang killing someone, even someone unredeemably evil, because there would be no way to do it OFF screen, and it IS still a kid's show. (On that note: couldn’t they have just somehow...idk, trapped Ozai in the Spirit World or something? Have him literally sent to not-hell?)

BUT, that doesn't mean they couldn't have shown Aang doing something that made him realize that, as the Avatar, even if a necessary action went against his personal beliefs or wasn't what he wanted, his needs are superceded by the needs of the world he claims to love. He ignores this in S2 and nearly pays the ultimate price... but it's never properly addressed again. And thus, because that never happens, I honestly don't consider 13-yr-old Aang all that much more mature than 12-yr-old Aang, and I think that's a waste of potential.

And as for character regression...

Katara? Master Waterbender and war-hero? Who grabbed onto the first opportunity to explore the world beyond her tiny home, who fought for every scrap of skill and recognition she had--against a world determined to see her as lesser because of her race, her gender, her age? Who never backed down from what she thought was right, even when her own family and friends didn't support her? You're telling me that, according to canon, *that same Katara* was perfectly content to retreat to the South Pole and do nothing of note for the next 70 years except for being a good little housewife and healer? Get the fuck out of here with that misogynistic horseshit.

IN CONCLUSION

I could go on. I could talk about the unequal division of emotional labor between the two--with Katara constantly having to be mindful of not upsetting Aang too much lest he fly away and/or have an Avatar State tantrum. With Katara constantly reassuring Aang, but Aang, for instance, offering unsolicited advice about revenge instead of trying to understand what she needed, or kissing her without asking--twice!--and expecting them to be together without him ever even asking if that's what she wanted. I could talk about Katara not taking Aang to task for things he does wrong and Aang not being willing to see that Katara isn't perfect--how he puts her on a pedastal and Katara is afraid to leave it and break his illusions by being her real self.

But ultimately, what it boils down to, it that the most unrealistic thing about AtLA was not the magic, or the spirits, or the hybrid animals.

No, the most unbelievable thing about this show is that the ending was ruined just because more than creating a consistent thematic and emotional throughline, a couple of white dudes wanted to vicariously live out all of their "hot-for-babysitter" childhood fantasies.

And that's all I have to say about that.

#avatar: the last airbender #atla #meta #critical #anti-kataang #don't like don't read #a decade's worth of salt #and i might as well tag #zutara

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amillioninprizes · 5 years

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An entirely too long post on how to fix Veronica Mars

So, anyone who has followed this blog for any length of time knows: 1) What a massive Veronica Mars fan I was and 2) how distraught I’ve been over the most recent season that debuted on Hulu in July. I’ve been pretty angry about it since it dropped, but the first month after I was pretty occupied with real life stuff. Now that I’m more settled, I’ve found myself getting sadder and angrier over time with just how terrible S4 was and what an obvious fuck you to longtime fans it was. It feels dumb to be so upset over a tv show, but this show got me through a lot over the past 8 years, and I feel like it’s been taken away from me.

It’s anyone’s guess as to whether there will be a new season. Ideally it would end here with maybe an alternate ending filmed to avoid alienating fans further. On the one hand, the botched release, overwhelmingly negative response, and silence from the creators after initial interviews don’t look good for renewal chances. On the other hand, Hulu doesn’t have a lot of streaming hits, it probably did relatively decent numbers, and there are rumors floating around that its pickup chances look good. On a personal level, I hate the idea that this is where the legacy of Veronica Mars ends, while at the same time being extremely wary of what the creators have planned. I think a big part of the disappointment with S4 was that the movie and books set up what could have been some really interesting storylines and situations, all of which RT and co. squandered for cheap drama and to apparently turn the show into an entirely new vehicle; additionally I had hope that S4 would be a chance to rectify some problems the show has long had, but again, S4 exacerbated them. At this point I don’t expect anyone higher up in the creative process or at Hulu to give a fuck about the fans or making the show better as long as they hit streaming targets, but here are some suggestions:

Fire Rob Thomas

While he created the show, it’s become clear that not only has he lost touch with the audience and the original spirit of the character, he doesn’t seem too keen on putting much effort into writing the show (as I will discuss below). Then you have his clear misogyny: his views that women in relationships can’t be interesting, that what makes Veronica interesting as a character is her trauma and how much she can endure, and the fact that basically every female character in the history of the show has a history of sexual victimization. He thought that making the Mexican cartel hitmen “philosophical” was subverting expectations (which says a lot of what his expectations of Latinx characters are). Then this is the way he essentially exploited his long term fan base to earn a new season of the show, only to turn around and tell us that we don’t matter. From a business perspective alone keeping him doesn’t make sense; selling a streaming platform on your loyal fanbase and then proceeding to purposefully piss ~80% of them off would be pretty questionable to me as someone in charge. The sheer cruelty with which he treated not only the fans who have supported him for 15 years (I fucking used to liveblog iZombie y’all. iZombie!), as well as how he callously dismissed long time cast members in favor of celebrity guest stars should not be rewarded. He’s admitted in interviews that he would be ok with younger writers doing a reboot many years in the future; why not just let him have a producer credit and then hand the show over to someone who’s invested in making it good?

Put a woman in charge and diversify the writing staff

A big problem with a) Veronica’s characterization in S4 b) RT’s ideas about what makes female characters interesting c) the show’s long history of problematic treatment of sexual assault is that it comes from a man’s conception of the female experience. The Veronica showcased in S4 and that RT wants to write in the future is very much a male fantasy: hates marriage and children, traumatized, DTF, and is too cool for other women. RT stated in interviews that he wanted to show Veronica at a “crossroads” this season in a way he claimed had been shown for men but not women; many female viewers found this depiction to ring false (few women are spending their time fretting about how committing to marriage after five years in an established relationship will bar us from strange sex going forward). In addition to having RT at the helm, most of the show’s writing staff for the majority of its run has been white dudes, which doesn’t bode well for telling the story of a female PI in a diverse community in today’s political climate. Putting a woman in charge would hopefully help rectify these issues to make the character feel more true to life and put a damper on the misogynistic storytelling. The show has a natural candidate in RT’s second-in-command Diane Ruggiero-Wright (despite her problematic history, never forget #KeisterEggGate), who has admitted to not being able to watch the last episode. Jennifer Graham, who wrote both of the books, would also be a worthy addition to the writing staff; while the books had a mixed reception, most fans agree that she got Veronica’s character right. And with the show’s problematic historical treatment of minority characters, adding more POC writers going forward is also necessary.

Bring back Logan (alive)

You don’t have to be a LoVe shipper to recognize just how integral Logan has been since the inception of the show, not just as Veronica’s partner but as a character is his own right. Logan’s journey in many ways parallels Veronica’s, and shows a contrast in how different characters respond to similar trauma. The most critical plot line in the show’s history, the mystery of who killed Lilly Kane, simply doesn’t work without Logan’s importance to Veronica. RT and his defenders like to claim that Logan was holding her back from true growth, which is frankly bizarre as he is the only character to consistently challenge her, like when he tells her that she obviously isn’t happy this season. Additionally, Logan’s scenes this season were the lone highlight of what was otherwise a painful slog of a season. Of the people who have said they would watch a potential S5, a good portion are only interested because they believe that the ambiguity of the last 10 minutes of the season means he’s not really dead (despite what RT has said in interviews). Then there’s what Logan’s death does to Veronica’s character, effectively cutting off what would have been an interesting character arc and stagnating her forever. No matter how much they try to shove Leo the pedo creep and other milquetoast RT self-insert love interests on us, no one else can possible measure up to Logan’s level in terms of being able to match Veronica as a character, intellectually or as a result of shared history.

Plus, the fact that we haven’t had a Weevil/Logan interaction since S3 is a goddamn travesty and should be rectified immediately.

Bring back Veronica

As sad as I am about Logan’s death, for me the most upsetting aspect of S4 was the assassination of Veronica’s character. For many viewers (including myself), the character we saw Kristen Bell portray in S4 wasn’t Veronica Mars but a different character with the same name. Between her abusive behavior towards Logan, her general indifference to her father’s medical condition, her dismissal of Wallace, and her racism towards Latinx characters (using a kid’s lawyer to threaten deportation: not a good look!), she was lacking the marshmallow-y center that always balanced out the pricklier aspects of her character and made her compelling. This change in characterization was especially jarring given that she was not this way when we last saw her in the books, where she mused about having children and sent her half-brother Hunter to summer camp (side note, but does he even exist anymore?). Many of us who had grown up with Veronica were hoping to see her grow with us as a character; instead we got an extreme regression lower than we’ve ever seen her. It would be one thing if they were trying to depict a PTSD storyline, which would make sense given her background, but since her change in behavior is never addressed by the narrative, it just makes her look like a cruel asshole and makes it impossible to root for her. This is exacerbated by the fact that RT has made it clear he has no interest in portraying her inner life, as shown by his wanting to avoid showing her grief over Logan’s death because it would be a real downer compared to the entertaining but ultimately hollow banter and quips he wants to focus on. Veronica this season was also just plain dumb: you mean to tell me that the girl who nearly got killed by Aaron Echolls in her back seat wouldn’t think to check her backseat every time she gets in a car? (And let’s not even start with RT’s bizarre assertion in an interview that she apparently votes Republican). Not helping matters was Kristen Bell’s performance, which felt very flat for me this season compared to S1-3 and the movie; I don’t know if this was due to personal limitations or a reflection of the bad writing. Writers of future installments and KB herself would be wise to revisit S1, the movie, and the books to figure out what makes sense for Veronica’s character, leading me to my next point:

Get reacquainted with canon, develop a show bible, and hire a continuity director

This show has long had a problem with dropped plots, timelines, and continuity issues. Shelly Pomroy’s party has two happened either in the summer, or the fall. Then we have the movie paradox: Veronica graduated high school in 2006, which means her 10 year reunion should have taken place in 2016. The movie was released in 2014 and the books seem to keep to 2014 dates. Then S4 states that Keith’s movie accident took place in 2013, and mysteriously ages Veronica up to 35 when she should be 32 in 2019. Logan mentions an Aunt Naomi in S4--why didn’t she take care of him after Aaron was arrested (and what happened to Trina)? How the hell is Leo working as an FBI agent when he presided over the disappearance of the Lilly/Aaron tapes? Veronica is shown to be tentatively forgiving of Weevil taking the settlement from the sheriff’s department in Mr. Kiss and Tell, but is then shown to be extremely angry towards him for it in S4. This is just a small selection of the inconsistencies within the show. Plus there is the problem of repeated plot lines: Veronica rejects Leo in favor of Logan in S1, then rejects Leo in favor of Logan in Mr. Kiss and Tell, only for her to...reject Leo in favor of Logan in S4 (and RT says he wants to leave the high school plots behind). This sloppiness doesn’t bode well for a series that is supposed to be about mysteries, which require tight plotting. It would behove TPTB going forward to once and for all determine a timeline of Veronica’s life, keep a detailed record of past plot and character points, and have at least one person on staff who thinks to remember this stuff (RT notoriously has only a “solid, not spectacular” memory of the show, no matter what Kareem Abdul-Jabbar says).

Make an effort (and do your fucking research)

Moving on from continuity issues to more general problems with the laziness of RT’s writing. He has basically admitted that he doesn’t care much about facts or characterization when writing plots--he shoehorns details to fit the plot rather than have it evolve organically from the characters and prior canon. I know that when writing it’s often impossible to make every story detail 100% accurate, but the extent of RT’s sloppiness is alarming. This excellent Reddit thread details a lot of the problems with S4 in particular, but this has been a problem since S2. Did anyone ever understand exactly why the Fitzpatricks were invested in framing Logan for Felix’s death? In the movie, it makes no sense that if Cobb and co. wanted Carrie silenced, they would add the complication of framing Logan for her murder--given her history, it would have been a lot easier just to make it look like she had accidentally overdosed. Given his previous patterns of villain writing fans were able to guess the identity of the S4 bomber based on casting alone. The mysteries in both Mr. Kiss and Tell and S4 are both ripped from the headlines, which indicates that RT wants to turn VM into the next Law and Order. Meanwhile, he complained about how hard including Logan in the story in S4 was, while Logan arguably had the best lines and most interesting scenes this season--apparently when you put an effort into things, they work out! This laziness extends past storyline issues and into factual problems that detract from the quality of the plot. Longtime fandom pals are probably tired about hearing me go on and on about how there’s no way Aaron’s lawyers could have gotten Veronica’s medical records due to HIPAA laws. Logan’s career change from naval aviator to intelligence is highly unlikely (and unnecessary, given that they changed it only to fridge him at the end of the season). Meanwhile, I know fanfic writers who have spent hours on the phone with strangers in order to research what type of firearm would cause a specific type of bullet injury. It’s very puzzling to me that RT wants to take the show in the direction of being mystery-only when apart from that one time he is piss poor at writing mysteries and puts no effort into them. I shouldn’t have to tell television writers to, you know, do their job but this is what we’ve come to in 2019.

Know your audience

A majorly annoying thing about the promo for this season is how in every single interview Rob Thomas did he was always talking about how he wanted VM to be like other shows and movies: Fargo, True Detective, Game of Thrones, Chinatown (which is apparently the only noir movie he’s ever seen). The thing is, if I wanted to watch those shows, I would; I watched Veronica Mars specifically because I enjoyed its unique qualities, and I would say most fans agree. The general perception within the fandom is that with this season Rob Thomas seems to have been aiming to dump the old, majority female, CW fanbase in order to achieve what he perceives as a cooler prestigious male fanbase; the issue is, new people aren’t going to take up a show in its fourth season if they didn’t watch or didn’t like earlier seasons. Also, trying to write a prestigious show doesn’t make your show prestigious. Considering that based on anecdotal evidence most of the people who like S4 seem to be male, he may have succeeded in the first part of his aim. However, this majority female fanbase he was so willing to cast aside are the ones who have run fansites and rewatches during fallow times (i.e. between S3 and the movie and then between the books and S4), so drumming up interest among fans (and therefore streaming views) in the future may be a challenge. Plus, women are a better advertising demographic since they are more likely to be in charge of household purchasing decisions, so maintaining us as a fanbase makes business sense as well. He may have tricked enough people into watching S4 that S5 is given a go, but I wouldn’t be surprised if streams are weak beyond that. If the show is to succeed as a commercial endeavor, better to go with appealing to a known quantity than trying to make a generic show that very few people have expressed interest in watching.

Bring back the mystery of the week

This is a more minor thing I felt was missing from S4. I think after the criticism of S3 not having a season-long arc RT overcorrected in focusing on one mystery. However, the mystery of the week had the following benefits: 1) giving chances for the characters to interact and telling us more about them 2) helping to modulate the pace of the season-long arc. With better writing a season-long standalone mystery could maybe work, but in the case of S4 specifically the mystery was kind of dull and repetitive and could have stood to include a couple of diversions in the form of a smaller case here and there.

Re-evaluate the creators’ interpretation of the word “adult”

Much of the promo and reviews for this season noted the more “adult” content to be expected this season now that Veronica’s grown. Many fans hoped that meant seeing Veronica act like, you know, an adult with adult problems rather than a teenager less mature than the actual teenager she was. Unfortunately, the show’s interpretation of the word seems to be more in keeping with a television rating sense of the word--meaning sex, drugs, and gratuitous violence (But apparently not the word “fuck.”). Look, it was expected that as the show moved to a streaming service and given the overall dramatic scope that there would be an upgrade in some of this sort of content (and I’d be a liar if I said I wasn’t looking forward to steamier LoVe moments, which were sorely overpromised), but the way it was included this season felt like RT and co. included this stuff just because they could and not to serve the storyline. For me, personally, the biggest example of this was Veronica’s drug use, which I know didn’t necessarily bother everyone. Given her history as the daughter of an alcoholic as well as someone who had been the victim of two roofie attacks, not to mention the fact that her character never seemed to be into partying, I found it very out of character (and book writer Jennifer Graham agrees). It felt like RT included this just bc they thought it would be funny to see Veronica on drugs without considering whether it made sense for her character. Also, were the beheadings strictly necessary? Plus there’s RT’s little temper tantrum over not being able to use curse words this season--they weren’t present in the original show, no one was going to miss them now, and the “cuss” thing was just annoying and reminiscent of The Good Place.

Dealing with a parent who maybe has dementia--that’s an adult storyline. Too bad RT ended it with a dumb excuse about “mixing meds” (another factual error! Pharmacy software would have caught it!) rather than actually exploring what it would mean for Veronica to see her father in decline and take over the family business (and give Rico Colantoni the exit he appears to want). This is the kind of adult content I would hope to see in future seasons.

Adult is not a synonym for “unrelentingly bleak” either. The original show, while dark, always had an element of hope that was completely removed from S4 (no matter what KB might claim). And would it have killed the writers to show Veronica wearing disguises and going undercover like she used to? There was nothing fun about this season (and no, I don’t count the multiple partying scenes as fun, more like sad).

Kill your darlings

It’s cliche, but it’s true. Another issue the show has long had is the writers keeping around characters or inserting jokes and references for their own personal amusement rather than for the story. The most notable example of this is the continued presence of Dick, a highly problematic character considering he pushed Beaver into the room with Veronica the night of Shelly Pomroy’s party, among a whole host of other racist, sexist, and generally obnoxious actions over the years. But because Ryan Hansen is so widely beloved among the cast and crew, so he stays. Then there’s the matter of the infamous Keister egg in 3x08, which the writers and KB have all expressed love for, despite the fact that said Keister egg is an example of sexual assault--which, even if the victim is a douchey fraternity president, is never funny.

Also the constant Big Lebowski references are tiring. Watch a new movie.

Improve Neptune’s gender ratio

Veronica Mars, despite having a female lead, has always been a male-dominated show; other than Veronica herself, the only consistent female character over the original show was Mac (and she didn’t even come back this season). This is unacceptable in 2019, for any show. The books introduced promising female characters in the form of Marcia Langdon and Petra Landros, but Marcia’s character was was watered down for S4 and Petra was nowhere to be found. Additionally, Veronica and Mac have always been written as “cool girls” who looked down on other women for their femininity, which isn’t a great message. Almost every other female character, even the innocuous Parker, is portrayed as somehow bad or incompetent. I would love nothing more than a season centered on the women of Neptune and their interactions with each other. While we’re at it, stop giving every woman on this show a background of sexual victimization.

Treat VM as an ensemble show, not a Kristen Bell vanity project

A major complaint from Burnt Marshmallows and S4 defenders alike was how little time was given over to the original core cast this season. While Veronica may be the protagonist, a large part of how the show became so beloved was her relationships with the other characters. Yet RT has decided that going forward VM will be a KB solo project, with her traveling town to town quipping and sleeping with strangers. This seems strange, given Kristen’s recent interviews talking about how difficult it is to shoot VM and how she never wants to be first on a call sheet ever again, not to mention how she asked for less screen time all the way back in S2, which resulted in the Weevil-Logan storyline, which was way more interesting than Veronica’s storylines during the first half of that season. (The traveling detective thing also seems weird considering that KB is pretty insistent on shooting in LA to be near her family.) Additionally, if this is truly the last season of VM with all the original characters, then no one got a proper sendoff.

I’m not sure how willing much of the cast will be to return for future iterations, given how uncomfortable many of them seemed during promo as well RT and KB’s treatment of them (insensitive at best, deliberately mean at worst) this season (shout out to Tina Majorino for recognizing what a shit show this was going to be), but bringing back all the original characters into the fold and giving them significant storylines would go a long way to mending fences with fans, improving the show from a character arc perspective, and would also give KB the break she apparently wants.

Recourt the fanbase

What has VM always been renowned for above all else? It’s incredibly loyal fandom which not only got it renewed twice during its original run but also put up their own money to get the movie made--I know many people who donated when they really couldn’t afford to. RT basically owes the last 6 years of his career to VM fans--the success of the Kickstarter arguably got him the iZombie show running gig, and the fourth season likely wouldn’t have even happened if not for it. Thus, the blatant cruelty and disregard with which RT and KB have treated fans during the promotion of S4 has been incredibly insulting and hurtful; I still can’t fathom what in the world possessed RT to think that throwing away this 15-year relationship was a good idea. It’s not a good sign when the 2 fansites most active during the post-movie period (VMHQ and VM Confessions) cease operations in the wake of S4, and when at least 3 out of 8 board members of the oldest running fan group, Neptune Rising (who were dormant during the post-movie period but played a critical role during earlier fan campaigns and in the S4 promo) resign. A fandom this loyal that was betrayed will not stand idly by if the S5 RT wants to make goes ahead; given the number of tweets the official Hulu VM account has had to delete in the wake of S4 due to the overwhelmingly negative response as well as the controversy over editing out Logan from S4 promos, I imagine that S5 will be a PR nightmare. Even if future seasons are amazing the trust can probably never be fully repaired, but it would be helpful for RT (or fingers crossed, a new show runner) and KB (as star and EP) to go overboard in reaching out to fans and at least admitting they made a misstep with the entirety of S4. Back in the day, the old Mars Investigation fansite was invited to set to conduct interviews; maybe do that again. Also someone should get KB some sort of VM fandom-fluent media trainer because I don’t think she has conducted a single interview during her entire stint on the show that didn’t anger fans (it might help if she actually bothered to watch the show).

Map out an endgame

Look, this can’t go on forever. As long as RT keeps leaving every installment open ended with the hopes of maybe getting renewed again five years down the line, the story is going to keep running into the issues the movie and S4 faced with having to shoehorn the characters into nonsensical plot lines to reconcile those endings and deal with actor availability issues. Either plot another 2-3 seasons to wrap the show up with a satisfying conclusion, or map out a greater timeline of Veronica’s life with spots where a mini series or movie here and there could fit in.

#Veronica Mars #still angry #mainly written for personal catharsis #need to stop being angry about this and focus more on studying synaptic transmission #Burnt Marshmallow #we use to be fans

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entamewitchlulu · 7 years

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Homura’s Top 15 GX Characters

And next, my favorite GX characters!!! Under the cut so that it doesn’t take up too much of everyone’s dashes cause it’s loooong lol

15. Ryo Marufuji “Kaiser”

I hate him but I love him tbh haha. He’s not the best brother and his whole Hell Kaiser thing actually made me a little less interested in him as a character, but I still like him a lot for his aggressive presence and his interesting character arc, which is really out of the norm for a lot of character arcs in general. You don’t often see the kind of change that we get to see in Ryo. I also still do always remember that moment where he decided he would rather surrender than watch Shou get hurt during his duel against Camula, and that more than anything endears me to him. Despite his harsh demeanor, I think in the end he really does care.

14. Daichi Misawa

It’s my nerd son ;w; What I love the most about Misawa is just how amazingly analytical he is, but he’s still a lovable person who seems to get along with others easily. Most of the time, math nerd characters like him are shown as completely socially inept, but Misawa was almost always shown as someone who was really easy to get along with, and everyone liked him (at least until ignoring him became a running gag... ;w; he deserved better). He’s a cute little nerd.

13. Fubuki Tenjoin

God look at this fucking nerd. My favorite thing about Fubuki is that he’s just...so dorky?? And this right on the heels of his first appearance as Darkness, when we’ve been waiting for a significant amount of episodes to find/meet the cool Asuka’s missing big brother...and we find out he’s a fucking NERD. Just surfing around with his hawaiian top and his ukelele and stealing all of the girls’ hearts while dealing out stupid love guru advice. He’s just downright fun to watch because he’s so dorky!

12. Rei Saotome

Rei is just...cute okay? I don’t really have many deep reasons why I like her because she doesn’t really have much of a character on screen, which I do mourn often ;w; But I’m the kind of person that attaches to the female characters for better or worse, and I just find Rei an interesting potential for character if nothing else. I actually don’t mind that her driving force tends to be romance, and I like that she takes initiative to find what she wants. I also love what a mom friend she is with Martin, and how she’s a little almost aggressive with it XD

11. Takuma Saiou

Yeah, he’s definitely a divisive character, but I can’t help but care about him. He’s a misguided soul that falls off the path because of an unfortunate string of events, but I don’t feel like he ever tried to act like he never did anything wrong. He was willing to take the consequences for his actions and fight to right them alongside Edo, and I’ll admit that most of my love for him comes from his interactions with Edo, especially when they’re children. He’s a tragic sort of character who fought hard but ended up falling prey to evil in the end anyway. And yet, in the end, he does manage to come back to himself; and that’s often why I choose to ignore his final appearance in season 4, cause it just feels like a regression of his character.

10. Haou

I guess this character is basically Judai, but I suppose for these purposes I’m considering him separately. Idk I just find him to be the kind of villain that I tend to like; he’s dark, looming, quiet, and eerie, even beyond the fact that he’s Judai, our protagonist, become the villain. He’s absolutely merciless and for the short time that he’s an antagonist, he’s legitimately frightening for the characters that have to face him.

9. Shou Marufuji

what a precious boy?????? Shou Marufuji deserves the world, honestly. I love him for how he overcomes his vulnerabilities and anxieties, and he becomes honestly one of the strongest characters in the series courage-wise. I love his character arc and his growth, and he’s just such a sweet, precious boy and I love watching him grow up.

8. Yubel

Yubel is fucking cool okay?? Her design is amazing and I love the way that her voice changes in the middle of sentences to make her truly androgynous. I also adore her for her fascinating character motivation; we’ve certainly never seen this before or again in Yu-Gi-Oh where the villain’s motivation is undying, obsessive love with the protagonist. She brought GX into a really fascinating time for story telling, and even after she’s defeated and assimilated into Judai, the few bits we get of her paint her as an amazingly sassy spirit partner that I wish we had gotten to know more about.

7. Jim Crocodile Cook

God I’m such a sucker for this guy. He’s just a fun dude, and I love his almost Steven Irwin kind of look/personality. His interactions with Karen are a joy to watch, and I love his laid-back, adventurous personality, and his immense loyalty to his friends and his unwillingness to back down or give up.

6. Austin O’Brien

This precious, precious dude, I love him so much it hurts sometimes ;w; O’Brien is just...great??? He doesn’t get as much screen time has he deserves, but what we do get I think is so great. He’s just so incredibly human. I love his arc, when he first appeared I thought I wouldn’t like him, but his enflamed passion from dueling with Judai, and seeing him decide to take his own path outside of the job given to him really endeared him to me. Watching him overcome his own fear in order to sacrifice himself to save Judai and everyone from Haou was a really powerful moment, and I was so glad to see him come back and be Judai’s bff/info specialist.

5. Jun Manjoume

God, what is there not to love about Manjoume? His character arc is actually one of the best in the series; I love watching his internal and external struggles and coming out on top in the end every time. One of my favorite things about GX in general is how he and Judai seem to have an inverse relationship from usual shonen series; while Judai ends up being a quiet individual who fades from the scene, Manjoume ends up taking on the role of being the face of Duel Academia and the pro that everyone knows about. I just love him for how multifaceted he is; he has his serious side, his irritable side, his downright dorky side, and his legitimately caring side. My favorite scenes with him are his arc with Edo, where we get to see what kind of person he’s going to be as an adult, and I just felt so proud of him in those moments seeing how much he had grown since the beginning.

4. Asuka Tenjoin

What an absolute bae tbh. I love Asuka’s tough personality and her take-no-shit attitude. She’s a strong girl who sets an example for others, and takes good care of the people who look up to her, even when she’s under the brainwashing of the Society of Light. Her determination and self-confidence are really a joy to watch on screen and almost all of her duels are just so cool!

3. Judai Yuki

Judai is honestly one of the most dynamic protagonists in Yu-Gi-Oh. He starts out as this typical, laid-back shonen protag who just floats through life and gets by with his incredible luck, but circumstances force him to deal with his own buried insecurities and I think he’s one of the most fascinating depictions of a legitimately depressed character in shonen media. His growth is great to watch and I love how out of the ordinary it is for a shonen show. His duels are fun and his confidence + vulnerabilities are incredibly fascinating to watch him as he goes along on his character journey.

2. Edo Phoenix

I’m straight for Edo tbh like damn son, what a pretty person you are??? But beyond that, he’s also a fascinatingly fun character to watch on screen. I love him for his superior attitude and his smug confidence, but also for his rare moments of letting his actual kind heart show through. He’s a precious child that I loved getting the back story on which really sealed the deal for me loving him.

1. Johan Andersen

god i love him so goddamn much ;w; Johan is just so incredibly earnest and sincere. I love how strong he is in his convictions and how excitable about life he is. He’s legitimately cheerful about almost everything, and gets excited about things even when the situation looks dire. He’s strong in his beliefs and is more than willing to lay his life down for others, and in fact, it was his hope and dream that he could do something with his life to help other people, even at the cost of himself. I love him for his devotion to his spirits, and in fact all spirits in general, and how badly he wants to protect everyone. He’s also fucking adorable and I love how smiley and happy he is no matter how bad things get. He always believes, in himself, in others, and in that the world is a fundamentally good place.

#yugioh gx #lulu talks #tbu

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