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slothkittfunsies · 2 months

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Deep Dive into the issues on Alastor.

CONTENT WARNING: Racism, Aphobia.

Now that I created a blog specifically for stuff like this, It's time for the dive.

Alastor is a character that resonates with me, because this guy is supposed to represent me and my people (aspec/aroace community) and I liked his pilot personality. (That went to shit)

This man got so many issues, that i have to take the pen myself and scribble what Vivzie has wrote. So, Let's start, shall we?

THE DESIGN

The first time I saw the Hazbin pilot, I got confused about what Alastor was supposed to be. I thought he was just a grey human wearing some kind of animal ears until the fandom said he is a deer.

A deer. Let that sink in.

(Images for comparsion)

As someone passionate about the arts, this upset me. Sure, I haven't been to art school, but even I know you need to put the backstory and features in mind when designing a character.

Character design is NOT throwing things at the wall and seeing which sticks. It needs actual critical thinking. If your audience is confused about your character's species, it's time to go back to the drawing table (unless you have a reason for making it mysterious.)

Second, the overabundance of red is awful in terms of color theory. This guy is in Hell, which is also red, causing an eyesore. I got a headache when trying to focus on him on a red background. And also, colors have meaning. People associate red with danger, so the fact he even managed to get victims to kill makes me puzzled.

Also, the fact he's supposed to be mixed/black makes this design even worse. Why is he grey instead of brown, perhaps? Vivzie has a pattern of making POCs grey-skinned, which is, again, awful.

I think Vivzie only made him a POC due to the voodoo issue. I mean, just remove the symbols and you are done. But nah the symbols are too "aesthetic" to remove. So gotta change his race.

She could have used another symbols, like THIS for example:

Since, you know, he's the "Radio Demon"?

THE BACKSTORY

Ok, this where I'm very confused.

Alastor is a radio host, and also a serial killer. He was born in the USA, got killed by a deer hunter by mistake, and lived in the 1920's.

This is what I gathered from being a superfan back then, and it sounds unorganised/cluttered. And the years he lived in make his design even worse. (Again! His clothing doesn't speak the 1920s!)

The fact he's from an old era, and yet speaks in modern slang is weird. He's supposed to hate anything modern, and yet he does it anyway? His saying "fuck" multiple times is so out of character for him. I guess the "If made by Vivziepop" memes have some truth.

Putting the fact he's mixed, makes the backstory more confusing. How did he manage to be a popular radio host at the time before the civil rights movement became a thing? He will have been put down like the rest of the POCs in America. Either that he's white-passing, or it's VERY difficult. Adding the fact he's a serial killer makes me think how the cops didn't get to him (the mere fact he's black should have got him questioned in 1920s America)

Now, for his identity. I'm mad he's the only aroace character in the sea of gays and bisexuals. (I'm not saying gay men and bisexual people should not have representation. I have to say that due to tumblr's piss poor reading comprehersion)

which made me go through on why Vivzie made him aroace in the first place. I don't know if this is true, but I heard she made him aroace because "he only loves himself"

Um. Here we go again with allos assuming we are non-empathic psychopaths for our lack of sexual or/and romantic attraction. I hope that's not true at all, but knowing Vivzie's past, I wouldn't be surprised.

Alastor would have been a great character if another person took care of it instead of Vivziepop. What I'm gonna say is, wasted potential.

#hazbin hotel critical #vivziepop critical #hazbin critique #hazbin critical #spindlehorse critical

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etaleah · 9 months

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Absolutely sucks that your blog is ravaged with proshipping apologia. Like yeah enjoying dark subject matter in fiction doesn't mean you condone it IRL (I myself am an avid gore and kink fan and use that to express my feelings in art) but uhhh there's a difference between depicting pedophilia in a story and actively jacking it to child porn which is what most if not all proshippers are trying to justify.

The Venn diagram between proshippers and anime lolicons is a circle. "Ohhh it's not real" yeah sure technically but that's still very much a child being raped on screen you're getting your rocks off to. Being in the second dimension doesn't negate that.

Most proshippers don't actually care about properly depicting complex subject matter in art. They just wanna write their incest rape South Park fics and call anyone who calls them out on it "puritans." (I doubt any of you really understand what that word means. If not liking child porn makes me a puritan then call me the Virgin fucking Mary.) It's all excuses, excuses.

Fiction affects reality more than you think. It's why propaganda is so effective. It's why Jim Crow and minstrelsy was (and still is tbh) so harmful to African Americans. Why do you think POC care about how they're depicted in media so much? It very much influences thinking, how people see the world.

(There is an argument to be made about the rampant racism in fandom, but that's a whole other conversation.)

Don't dismiss this ask. I want you to read it very carefully and get yourself out of the echo chamber you've put yourself in. Consider the points made at the very least. Use the "critical thinking" you claim to love so much.

I have considered the points you made and read them very carefully, and I have found them incorrect, relying on faulty logic, and full of unverified assumptions and false equivalences. I now bring you a full breakdown of exactly why, though I’m putting it under a cut in case anyone wants to avoid the Discourse™ because this breakdown is a long one.

*cracks knuckles* Here we go!

You clearly have a different definition of “proship” than I do. I and those that I have reblogged or liked (as far as I can tell) are “proship” in the sense that we’re arguing for the freedom to read what you want and write what you want because thoughtcrime isn’t real, no one gets hurt inside your head, and the ability to read and write what we wish is vital to a free society. That’s my definition of “proship,” and if you have a different definition and are determined to stick to it, there’s not much I can do about that. I can only tell you what my definition is so that you know what I’m referring to when I talk about it in this post or reblog posts mentioning it.

If you’re referring to what’s on AO3 (which is what I am mainly concerned with, as I don’t talk about other fanfic sites on my blog), that is not child porn. It’s not. The term child porn refers to sexual photos and videos of real children, not text-only stories about fictional ones. AO3 does not allow users to upload videos nor does it allow users to upload photos except for their profile pictures, and it is literally written into their Terms of Service that they do not allow child pornography on their site. You couldn’t put child porn on AO3 if you tried. Text by itself with no photos or videos accompanying it is not child porn, and that’s true no matter how disgusting and immoral you find it. I don’t support or justify child porn because I don’t support or justify real children being hurt, which is what actual child porn involves and requires.

What I do support is the freedom for everyone to read and write what they want, and I am not going to stop supporting that.

How do you know that the people reading or writing a fic are “getting their rocks off to” or “actively jacking it” to what's in it? Did they tell you? Have you developed telepathic powers and read their minds? How do you know that people “don’t actually care about properly depicting complex subject matter in art?” Don’t dismiss those questions, answer them. You don’t know why someone is reading something and you don’t know why someone is writing something. I have no idea whether the person checking Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation out of a library is a racist who agrees with everything in both works or a scholar doing research for a paper on racism or just an average joe who wants to see what’s in there for themselves and form their own conclusions, which is a perfectly fine and intellectually healthy thing to want. I don’t know which of these is the case and I’m not going to automatically assume the worst-case scenario, nor am I going to demand that the person checking out those works provide me with an explanation because they don’t owe me one. You don’t know why someone is reading or writing a rape or incest story. Maybe they find it sexy or maybe they’re a victim themselves, working through their trauma by expressing it via the written word. You don’t know which one it is, and they don’t owe you an explanation. I’d advise you not to automatically assume the worst-case scenario either.

Because you know what happens when people assume the worst of an author’s intentions and assume they know what a work is doing? You get situations like Isabel Fall’s and Lindsay Ellis’ where people were sure they knew that the former was being transphobic with her short story and that the latter was trivializing rape with her “rape rap.” They were so sure, as sure as you are in your ask, not a doubt in their minds, didn’t think it was possible for there to be any other reason or interpretation, and so they felt totally justified in harassing those women. I’m sure each of them convinced themselves they were doing this because they were an ally who just cared so much and that those authors deserved the hate they were getting because (gasp!) they wrote something bad and if you write something bad, you should expect to be called out. And then they found out—oops! Turns out Isabel Fall was a trans person and not a cis person being transphobic after all, and was actually writing a story about a subject she had plenty of experience with, and—oops! Turns out Lindsay Ellis was an assault victim herself and she was coping with her trauma in the best way she could because making a lighthearted rap about the subject made it more accessible, easier to deal with, and not as scary and she wasn’t making fun of victims after all. Whoops!

How do you know the people writing these fics you find so horrible aren’t doing something similar to Ellis and Fall? How do you know they aren’t victims working through their grief and trauma in a way that helps them? How do you know you’re not misjudging and assuming the worst of them just like Fall’s and Ellis’ haters misjudged and assumed the worst of them? Don’t dismiss those questions, answer them. How do you know?

Why do you get to be the authority who decides what “properly depicting complex subject matter in art” even looks like? Maybe someone else read it and decided it was properly depicted; why does your opinion and interpretation matter more than theirs? Why is yours the correct one? Don’t dismiss those questions, answer them.

I don’t know what anime lolicon is, so I’m not gonna comment on that, though I will say it disproves your point about the Venn diagram being a circle since I am technically a proshipper and yet I don’t even know what that is. I’m sure if you look hard enough, you can probably find someone using the proship label who has done something bad or supports something bad, but the same can be said about antis. You get assholes in every group. Doesn’t mean everyone in the group is a bad person.

(Also I know this isn’t the most important point here but the fact that you’re more worried about the content of South Park fanfics rather than the South Park show itself says to me that you care more about finding an easy target than about minimizing harm because that show has plenty of racist and anti-Semitic “jokes” in it that are being fed to a much larger audience than any fanfic of it could ever have, yet I don’t see you being worried at all about that. Wonder why.)

(Another less important point but one I’m still going to indulge in: I find your line about “if that makes me a puritan then call me the Virgin Mary” funny in an ironic way because in trying to claim that people don’t know what the word puritan means, you proved that you yourself don’t know what it means by implying that puritan = virgin. Puritan and virgin are not the same thing. Virgin is a state of being that could be voluntary or, if you want sex but can’t find anyone to give it to you, it could be involuntary. One could be a virgin and still be sex-positive just like one could be a religious fundamentalist with ten kids who’s had all the sex required to make those ten kids but still be sex-negative and think that only the straight married baby-making kind is okay and all other kinds are impure and gross. Unlike virginity, puritanism is a mindset, not a state of being, and therefore it is always voluntary. You can be one without being the other. Again, not a super important point, but I thought the irony of that line was funny.)

You do know that Jim Crow was a set of laws and policies set down by the government and enforced by police and courts and not, like…a dirty fanfic or book, right? You do know that? It was and still is a legal framework that’s baked into the justice system and has been the driving force behind everything from mass incarceration to drug policy to redlining and housing to voter disenfranchisement. Bitch, I fucking wish that Jim Crow was nothing more than a bad fanfic or a bad story; that would make it a hell of a lot easier to fight! Acting like any one (fan)fiction writer or any one piece of (fan)fiction has the same amount of power as the fucking US government is some insane false equivalence.

As for the representation argument, you’re misunderstanding what that movement is about and why the founders of it cared about the state of media. We Need Diverse Books and organizations like it did not start their campaigns because they were disgusted by what White writers were doing and wanted to stop them and make sure they could never do it again. They started their campaigns to empower and encourage authors of color. It began when a few Black mothers were looking for books for their kids and realized they couldn’t find any with a Black child on the cover, not because they read something a White person wrote and were so horrified by it that they had to put a stop to it. Being so horrified by something in a story that you have to put a stop to it is what Moms for Liberty does. The goal of the representation matters movement is to diversify the publishing industry since it’s still majority White, to publish more authors of color because most of the authors being published are still White, and to update school curriculums so that students of color can read about and study characters like themselves. All of which are good and reasonable goals. It is not and never was about telling people what they were and were not allowed to write or read, or saying that they’re bad people because of what they write or read.

“Influences thinking” and “affecting reality” are not the same as controlling or determining thinking and reality. If fiction really does affect how people see the real world, then why, in a time when we have more positive books/movies/TV shows/plays of and by POC and positive queer books/movies/TV shows/plays than ever before, are we still dealing with vicious racism and homophobia? If fiction influences thinking and affects reality and how people see the world so much, then why, in a time when we have Drag Queen Story Hour and trans characters are being featured positively in popular TV shows and trans actors are winning awards, are we still dealing with some of the worst transphobia we’ve ever seen? Don’t dismiss those questions, answer them.

Fiction doesn’t make things happen. Playing violent video games doesn’t make a person violent. Reading or writing about an immoral act does not mean you agree with, get off to, or are going to do the immoral act. And that’s true regardless of what the immoral act in question is, whether it's gore or kink or rape or incest.

The problem with “you can read/write what you want except for X because X is gross/morally wrong” is that the bigots and mean-spirited folks of the world will find a way to make anything they don’t like into X. That’s the part antis don’t think about. But we’re already seeing it play out in school board meetings.

“We don’t want to ban Maus because it talks about the Holocaust, we want to ban it because uhhh it has pictures of naked prisoners in the camps and therefore it’s pornography.”

“We don’t want to ban Beloved because it talks about slavery, we want to ban it because uhhh it has a slave getting raped in it and therefore it’s pornography and sexually explicit and won’t someone think of the children!”

“We don’t want to ban all of these books because they have Black kids on the covers, we want to ban them because uhhh they’re critical race theory and indoctrination that teaches White kids to hate themselves!”

“We don’t want to keep drag queens out of libraries because we hate them and are transphobic, we want to keep them out of libraries because uhhh they’re sexualizing minors and teaching them to mutilate their genitals!”

Those are real examples. And they will happen to fanfiction too if we’re not careful. Someone doesn’t like Sonadow? Well they’re not against it because they’re homophobic or just don’t like the ship, they’re against it because uhhh it’s pedophilia since Shadow is 50-65 depending on how you count it and Sonic is 15. If it can happen with books, it can happen with fanfiction.

We’ve already seen cases of people running for board positions on AO3 who talked about “cleaning up the site,” and each time it turned out they were homophobic and were very much including queerness in what they considered “dirty.” That’s going to keep happening because antis keep falling for it and getting swept up in a manufactured moral panic without thinking through what the enforcement would be like. The whole reason AO3 has the policies that it does is because these kinds of purges happened regularly on other sites. Every time, people insisted it was “just the bad ones,” “just the immoral ones,” “just the underage ones,” etc. And it never was. And after every purge, there’d be a lot fewer queer love stories in the world.

How are you going to make sure that doesn’t happen again? How will you decide whose definitions of terms like “pedophilia,” “grooming,” “underage,” “sexualizing,” “fetishizing” get used? That’s the part antis never think about, is what enforcement of what they want would actually involve. Some people think “underage” is anyone under 25 or under 20 and some think it’s anyone under 18. Which one is right? Who gets to decide? Which country’s age of consent is the correct one that fanfic writers around the world all have to abide by regardless of where they’re from, and why is that country’s age of consent the correct one? Whose interpretation of a work is the correct one? And whoever ends up making these decisions, how will you stop this decision maker who gets to say what counts as “properly and improperly depicting complex subject matter” and what doesn’t from shifting the goalposts and abusing their power? How will you stop them from applying those negative labels to just any work they don’t like? What checks and balances will be put in place to keep whoever does the fanfiction gatekeeping from abusing that position? Don’t dismiss those questions, answer them. I’ve yet to see an anti have an answer to these questions.

I know propaganda is effective because you’ve fallen for it. The idea that peoples’ ability to read and write what they want must be restricted because Think of the Children™ and because “only bad people would ever want to read/write something bad” is the same talking points used by Moms for Liberty, Ron DeSantis, the people protesting Drag Queen Story Hour, and so many others. Every single time an attempt is made to restrict the freedom to read and write, it is always couched in the paternalistic language of protection, safety, just looking out for kids, and the fearmongering language of “that stuff is freaky, dirty, and gross and only a pervert would ever have a problem with it being banned.” Every time, it is discussed with the language of protection and safety, and every time, it is a lie.

I support the right of everyone to read and write what they want because I don’t know their situation, don’t have the right to demand an explanation of their situation or a detailed account of their very private and personal traumas, and have seen what happens when people try to excuse banning and censorship of written text or harassing authors with the excuses of “it’s just the bad ones,” “we’re just protecting kids,” “we just have a few concerns,” “we’re just being good allies,” and “if I wrote something gross I’d expect to get called out!”

So. Now that I have responded to your points, I hope that you will very carefully read and consider my points at the very least and get out of your echo chamber and use some critical thinking too. The fact that you put the phrase critical thinking in quotes like it’s a fake thing that doesn’t exist instead of a real and very important skill reveals a lot more than I think you meant it to, but still I hope you try.

I’ve disabled anonymous asks because I want to see if you’re brave enough to respond without hiding behind anonymity. I’ll be interested to see if you or anyone who agrees with you actually provides thoughtful, well-reasoned, and well-articulated answers to the questions I’ve asked instead of replying with a thought-terminating ad hominem like “That was a lot of words to say that you’re a [insert bad thing here]!” or “Just say you [insert bad thing here] and go!” And if you can actually provide evidence for your claims, if you can provide non-anecdotal, verifiable studies and data that are not from a religious or rightwing think tank that prove your points about proshipping and proshippers, then I’ll really be impressed.

I’m not holding my breath though.

#anti nonsense #anti censorship #my thoughts #book banning #fandom #ao3

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ndcultureis · 2 months

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nd culture is having an controversial thought or moke like wondering, and reasons why the term "glass child" rubs me the wrong way, so i'm going to vent here??

tw: mentions of ableism

glass child: siblings of a person with a disability,that get neglected bc thdir sibling get more attention.People often perceive them transparently, especially when children seem resilient but are actually vulnerable

I feel majority of ppl who are "glass child", even before the term was created, resented their sibling and their disability bc of the neglect or if the siblings happens to be an awful person,show their ableism and excused it under their "rage". It feels like they be waiting the term to be created(?. ( I have seen many of them on the internet or irl)

"But glass child is necessary term for our experiences. It's not ableist, even if most ppl used it that way, it means we don't get taken care of bc we strong when we aren't"

I don't want to invalidate ppl's trauma neither come off as insensitive..but it happens to many neglected kids, they are viewed strong when in reality,they are vulnerable, only difference is the experiences and context, doesn't make it less valid or less painful even if there's a lot of ppl in the same situation,I get why new terms exists: to talk about topics and experiences ppl have in common, it can be helpful and all that but..why creating more terms? It's basically neglect. It can be different situations but at the end of the day, is still neglect, which it has many non excusable reasons,no matter what situation, is a form of emotional abuse. and it can happen to anyone:all genders,POC or white,lgbtq or cishet.

Many parents exhibit toxic and abusive behavior influenced by culture, generational trauma, or personal issues. This can include favoritism toward one child over another based on shallow reasons like appearance or arbitrary characteristics. Similarly, neglectful parents justify their actions with excuses like being tired, working, or caring for other family members. Such behaviors are harmful and unjustifiable.

In various scenarios, disabled kids may be viewed as burdens, facing neglect or preference towards non-disabled siblings, while a similar pattern unfolds with daughters overshowed in favor of sons due to internalized sexism,and for the dark skinned folks are ignored by their family, just to favor of their lightskinned sibling

Surprisingly, there seems to be no coined term for neglect based on ableism, colorism, sexism, etc., in these instances. (as far as I know,if someone does know those terms. Pls do tell. Idk, my first language isn't english so).

#i had no idea that was a thing #i'd have to look into more. it doesn't sound like a term created with malicious intent #but i can definitely understand why it would rub people the wrong way #neurodivergent culture #mod milo #also thank you for using the different colours. not sure what its original purpose was but being someone with adhd #it helps a LOT when reading long texts

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mbslost · 2 months

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hi. yes i came back for another yapping session, ironic.

i would like to express some of my feelings towards... some interesting things.

1. The Strade nazi drawing

i talked about his before, i am aware, but later (while reading other opinions as well) i got reminded about EP (Electricpuke for those who dont know him). did we all forgot HOW MANY nazi drawings he made? dont you believe that's an influence as well? if i remember correctly, Gato cut ties with him because of his abusive behaviour (there arent many people talking about this but some user are aware about his actions. sadly i wasnt in the community when that happened)

literally there are people calling Gato a nazi when she doesn't support the ideology. why did no one act the same with EP? different standards? the fact he left (probably) for good? still its not an excuse to call Gato a nazi. also she apologised multiple times. again MULTIPLE TIMES. even in the callout post in twt you can see the fact she IS sorry for drawing that. that she REGRETS it

edit: kay found a ss on tt from the user @/gorturic where Gato said this as well

again, she doesn't support any nazi shit :/

2. The way others silence opinions that they dont like

im not saying you should be forced to agree with it, but when you make a callout account, normally, you let multiple people say their opinions over that thing. you can even show proof when you see someone is wrong. thats how argument work, crazy ik.

i start to see that if you defend Gato or just leave the community because the fandom its on thin ice, you'll be harassed and bullied for your choices. first of all, HOW ABOUT WE LEAVE PEOPLE THAT DONT WANT TO ASSOCIATE WITH BTD/TPOF ANYMORE ALONE. good? literally saw multiple users being harassed by this. its THEIR decision, suck it up. also can we stop SENDING DEATH THREATS???

or the fact that if you do have a point, they'll immediately cancel it with the "oh but its not important". it can be if you have some proofs for their misinformation (just like i proved the variety of poc characters Gato CREATED. didnt talk about Ren since he's another story)

3. Lack of proof for the side allegations.

if people noticed mods harassing people sm, why didnt they talk? why arent there ss of their conversations? we dont even know (most of us) what they even commented about (aside of Pussyspieler drawing). or the twt user that was wronged. that situation was like.. kind of a "im more autistic so you should shut up" (i have to add that i asked people on the spectrum about this and that was their point of view) of course the mod shouldn't have said it like that but.. its more of a misunderstanding really.. that doesnt mean you cant be upset. you absolutely can. everyone can react differently so dont harass them for feeling down or for being frustrated.

also the spanish (or mexican idk) users that just copied and translated @/renhanasgf posts with little to no new information. just the same thing. (although they said something of Gato not sending merch to latin America. probably because of the laws back then or the fact that the transport fee would be high af. im still searching for the reason tho so ill need some time for that one).

4. This fandom is messed up

people when fans of horror porn games are problematic 🤯. i agree that some people are being like extreme with their reactions, but no one is perfect here. just like i approached the situation completely wrong, they did the same. of course, now if you go around and be a racist piece of shit, you shoudl just stay off the internet for a while. luckily more approach the "like the art not the artist" thing.

look. you can always block users that you dont like (just like i do to those who are either into csam,thanks for telling me ab this term anon!, or incest). i know. shocking that people can block others.

after all these fandoms are not for the weak. there may be some safe spaces in it as well but... lets be real... its still going to be problematic. if you cant handle the community or how others act around here, then id suggest for you to not have a close interaction with others. like uhm, just, appreciate the content, not every person around here. just be aware of the users, stau safe okay?

5. Will i stop yapping?

not until i will see an agreement in the fandom. Gato is a human, of course she will do mistakes. especially if she's anxious or tired. having hundreds of people around you its hard and i can imagine it. having supoortive people only to wake up with people hating you. i hope she's safe and that she wont have to go to the hospital again. i pray for her well being, and to others that got spammed with those disgusting comments.

im not saying we should forget about this like.. her poor management and emotional way of responding to things, but is it truly worth it? to force a person to apologise just because they tried to fix things?

i also dont think ill stop because i just feel like im the only one that does talk here (trying to even prove wrong on some things). if others do it as well, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE TAG ME I WANNA SEE THEM😭 also because most people are still so confused about EVERYTHING. for some reason this drama its only getting more popular on tt for some reason.. which is a big no no since there are a lot of YOUNG people. i believe this should be talked here, and on twitter. (idk what to say about telegram)

ill stop here since my sickness got me. i will edit it later to add or correct myself but *sighs*

please stay safe and try to view more opinions over this. DONT SPAM OR HARASS ANYONE WHO ONLY WANTED TO EXPRESS THEIR FEELINGS. we'll see on Sunday how things will turn out.

(if i missed something out or said something wrong please correct me)

#gatobob #btd #boyfriend to death #tinr #btd2 #i also got tired of this or the multiple hateful messages that i had to delete since there were full of kys #untill then we'll see. i also wish to take a break because i got ill and this axiety aint helping much #whatever happens i wish Gatobob will be safe and will come back without any more backlash.#i do realise that me talking too much wont help either but.. i cant help it. the voices are winning

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thetimelordbatgirl · 23 days

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So I watched the teaser for Red and I have lots of questions:

Why Cinderella’s hair and Chloe’s hair blue?

Isn’t the actress for Chloe half white?

Why there’s a Merlin Academy hall of fame in Auradon?

Why Queen of hearts have a beef with Cinderella? Isn’t that supposed to be Lady Tremaine?

Why Uma is principal?

Why didn’t they change Beast’s statue to Ben’s?

Isn’t Wonderland an imagination in Alice’s head?

Why the Villains are considered VKs?

Why the heroes are in school with the villains? Especially Jasmine, Aladdin and Cinderella?

What’s going on with this?💀

Answering in order here:

*Honestly no fucking clue- I assume its because they want their main characters to have colorful hair like the prior main characters in Descendants 1-3, but even their hair looked better then Cinderella's, both young and old, and Chloe's blue hair. I really don't get why they were allergic to just, letting Brandy and Malia keep their normal hair instead of shoving ugly blue wigs onto them, but... *I do not know about Malia Baker's ethncitiy, I just know with the ugly blue wig and the lighting on that photo shoot, she looks light- not as light as Audrey did at times in D3 with her blonde hair, but you know, its up there. I do know Descendants fucked up when announcing this whole film, aka implying Dara Renee was casted as Chloe, but nope, turns out Dara is playing Ulyana, Ursula's latest younger sister, and Malia Baker is playing Chloe...so don't know what the fuck happened with Descendants there but....and if Malia is half-white...yeah I guess I wouldn't be surprised with Descendants and their track record with POC....or actually Hollywood in general, sufferer of Fate the Winx Saga here... *I can only assume its because Auradon Prep took Merlin Academy's place when Beast established it and such. How it affects what Ben said in D1: "Auradon prep, originally built over 300 years ago and converted into a high school by my father when he became king." can only be described as contunity/timeline breaking....aka Descendants favorite past time- but because of this, I just guess they count Merlin Academy students as ones to honor, since they learnt here once as well. *I have zero fucking clue WHY Cinderella and Queen Of Hearts have beef beyond someone in the Descendants writing room likely threw darts randomly and whoever they landed on would be parents of main characters and also have random as fuck beef- though bold to assume they'd allow Tremaine and Cinderella to have beef, D3 basically at the end was pro-forcing victims to forgive their abusers so like...

*Uma's teaser established that she was asked by Mal (no D*ve means get used to Descendants finding ways to mention Mal in this film) to become principle of Auradon Prep, so uh, that's why- no clue where Fairy Godmother is but she is confirmed to be returning in the movie so like- personally, I don't think Uma as principle makes sense character wise, but I do also see the reasoning other's have used for this character decision so like...its not the worst thing in this film. *I'm pretty sure the statue is less of a current ruler thing and more of a founder thing, since Ben said his father wanted it to remind people anything is possible when Beast founded Auradon Prep. I also don't really see Ben caring much for a statue of himself, since he doesn't give me the vibes of that. Plus, bold of you to assume Descendants films would give Ben a statue, they'd give Mal one over him with how Ben was treated in D3 in comparison to Ben, the actual ruler, during the meeting scene. *In terms of the animated film only? The vibes are that yes, Alice imagined Wonderland after dozing off, since she wakes up back in reality just as shit is hitting the fan. But let's be real, Descendants stopped caring about keeping to the animated films a while back, so they just gonna make Wonderland a real place and roll with it basically. *Answering those two together really on the VKs thing and the school thing: because Descendants is now entering EAH/SFGAE rip off terrority really, aka the idea of future fairy tale heroes and villains attending school together basically. Therefore, all animated films stuff and Descendants contunity/timeline is thrown out the window in favor of this. Like Jasmine and Aladdin logically should not be meeting at this point because they meet first time in animated and Jasmine was kept inside the palace her whole life?? Cinderella at this age would technically be being forced to be step-family's servant and therefore not likely allowed to attend school even? FUCK IT- rip off time! Not like EAH can do much since Mattel basically killed it in the end and SFGAE is doing god knows what right now...

And to that last question: "What's going on with this? 💀" Good question! I do not fucking know. I just know I wish someone would put the dumpster fire out already, but when this movie was announced, it was two movies, so god help us if they go ahead with the second one...

#disney descendants #descendants #descendants the rise of red #the rise of red #again i need to emphasis on the malia thing i have zero clue what her ethnicity is #i just know shes definitely looking light in that wig and shit #also like if your curious if im watching...i dont really plan to #while i joke i torture myself with shit like this i really have no reason to want to check this mess out beyond maybe uma #but china confirmed her part in the film is small so like #i manage to avoid watching the mcu nowadays which i used to watch for torture in the end so like #for the weird space all i can say is ask tumblr why i kept getting an error when publishing before i decided to put the space in

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looosey · 11 months

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Movie Review: The Half of It (2020)

Okay @notesoncrocs! I've finally watched it, and got dang!

Synopsis: Chinese American high school senior Ellie Chu lives in suburban seattle, and makes pocket money writing her classmate's english papers. She doesn't know much about love, just literature and music, and has a crush on the only girl who might understand her... but she's also the school's it girl. When a jock Paul asks her to write love letters to this same girl, she says yes to just ONE letter. But one letter becomes two, and messy messy messy friendship, lovers, and love of all kind.

Rating: ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️/5

Movie Review

So I watched this with my mom. So I was simply grateful to see queer asians represented on American film.

Ugh!! Paul and Ellie's friendship, and how they are, in real time, forming their young, naive, understanding of what love is, is so... precious. So coming of age. The two of them are like characters from a YA book you grew up with and never want to let go: flawed, cringy, but already cozy in their place in your heart.

The movie itself was beautiful as well, in terms of color palette and camera placement, and I don't think the art ever got in the way of the story-telling. And the references to literature, movies, and philosophy never got too obnoxious, but was just enough to understand the world of Ellie and the writer. All this to say, the movie was natural and not forced at all.

My Thinklings

I really really liked what the characters had to say about love. Paul and Ellie continuously circle the idea that love is the effort you put into letting the other person know they're loved, as opposed to magically finding your destined other half. This idea seeps through the movie, into the romance and the friendship and family: for example, Ellie and Paul start in a pay-for-play relationship, but do so many small things for each other with no expectation of any return at all.

The same idea must've struck @notesoncrocs because she mentions that last scene of him running by the train tracks, futilely... but for her to know. I just sit here now, wanting more out of my life, especially to DO more personally for others around me. Like if this is not the meaning of life/How can I say I have lived?

I'm basically done, but also a small thinkling I have is about liking white men. In general, Ellie and her dad are the only non-white characters in the movie, which is such a strange choice. Is that just what seattle is, or was this isolation a necessary simplification for the deep-rooted dissociation that goes on in a POC with a crush on a white person in high school. Paul is a straight white jock, i.e. Hollywood's default love interest/America's default high school heart throb. This movie did good for me in terms of "reverse representation"(?): seeing this type of guy be a genuine friend for an Asian gay nerd girl was strange in a good way, and made me think for the first time in a while that white men could be... friends.

The Half of It (2020) is on Netflix. I recommend to iHouse!

#the half of it #actual ihouse reviews #film review #renge #lgbtq #washington

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showtoonzfan · 1 year

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Honestly not every person of a race needs to sound a certain way I know like two black ladies who sound white as hell I was surprised when I seen one of them in person it's rare but it happens just like some white people sound black also rare sorry if it sounds rude text is a bitch when it comes to tone sometimes

I think it suits Alastor I know you don't blame Bosco but yeah I say just keep his ass white because that's what he comes across as 😂 but honestly that cat doesn't look black either he just sounds it if he's black make him a brown or black cat to make it obvious and idk why but Mordecai is it? He gives me Asian vibes but I highly doubt he is IF they're supposed to be of any race let me know if you know

It’s okay, you don’t sound rude. Here are my thoughts. For me personally, I give Viv more flack when it comes to designing her characters (in this case her POC characters) because despite these characters being demons, her style is very humanoid, meaning she clearly has the power to change the hair style and make it look more like the race of the person. This would be a different story if her demon characters were like…blobs or big monster types but most of them (especially the main cast) aren’t, and we end up having Alastor’s Karen haircut, and Velvet’s standard boring hair, when it’s easy as hell to give them different styles, it wouldn’t change a thing. It’s different with Lackadaisy because……they are cats after all, you can’t make animals a race, which is why people use the term “black coded” instead, for characters that can’t be a race. I revert back to what I said before, why not give Alastor a POC voice actor? Even if he does come across as white, his character clearly isn’t, and it really isn’t that hard to get a POC person and perform an accent, so we can get a sense of where he’s from and what heritage…..again….representation is important.

And yeah, you’re right, not every person of a race needs to sound a certain way but like….if Viv went out of her way to establish that Alastor has the voice of an old 1920’s radio, WHILE also saying he’s mixed French creole and from New Orleans in the 20’s, I’d expect him to have more flair than just a Caucasian voice with an Atlantic accent. But again, that is just me.

#vivziepop critical #spindlehorse critical #Hazbin critical #reply #ask

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lesbonym · 27 days

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okay so I have a few questions if that’s okay? 😅

~ what’s the difference between masc and butch?

~ I met this girl on hinge last year and she made such a big deal over the fact that i basically knew nothing 🥹 she laughed at me at first and then she started explaining the “types” of lesbians?? I was so confused, she started by trying to explain what a U-haul lesbian was and got then never explained anything else??? would she have meant “types” as in like, femme, masc, butch, pillow princess etc terms like that?

~ also I’m really worried because most of the community goes on about how lesbian relationships go really fast… and I’m worried because I don’t know if anyone is gonna want me or want to deal with me, you know? Or be bothered with taking it slow because (Really exposing myself here,) but I’ve never been in a relationship. Never held hands, never kissed anyone, still a virgin. So most I know is from ppl around me, movies and fanfiction- PROBABLY NOT THE MOST RELIABLE SOURCE OF INFORMATION?!

sorry if this is really long idk, I’m gonna be 19 in a month and I just feel that people are gonna treat me differently… but not in a good way if that makes sense?

🕷️

It's okay, baby. I'm glad you are asking. I might not give perfect answers to these so I would also check comments or reblogs for other answers! I'll also try to link some good articles I found and I recommend people tag some good blogs that fall under these categories. Questions are under the line cause this is a bit long lol

1. Okay, I'm definitely not butch but I hope I can answer some questions. Butch is an important part of lesbian culture that's often viewed as a masculine protector, it's an identity. "Masc," means masculine and can be more viewed as the aesthetic or how someone looks. There's another term called "Stud," which refers to masculine POC (Black, indigenous, Hispanic, etc.) lesbians, and white masculine lesbians can not identify with this identity. But not every POC masculine lesbian will identify with Stud. All of these identities are equally valid and wonderful alongside Femme.

It's always important to just ask what a lesbian identifies and what it might mean to them. (Again anyone can come and add more info to this or correct me on any info.)

Article written by Stud lesbian

Butch blogs I recommend that I follow: @butchxdaddy @daddyisatitlenotagender @wanderingbutch (I need more studs to follow, please recommend some)

2. That girl should not be laughing at you and I'm sorry she did that. "U-Haul" lesbian isn't even really a type of lesbian, it's a stereotype that lesbian tend to move in together quickly. People are all learning many things at different times and you making an effort to learn is what matters. And yes, there's many labels that lesbians can fall under, but don't have to. Types or labels could include butch, femme, stud, and masc, though I personally view pillow princess as more as a sexual term, but I might be wrong about that.

3. Sadly, there's a lot of hate towards lesbians even in the community (POC and masc lesbians especially). Many lesbians are viewed in the stereotype of always moving quickly, moving in and moving on. My own personal relationship is slow moving, a decision mutually agreed upon. I would definitely say that while fanfic and movies is an okay starting place, I learned much more by talking to other people on tumblr, finding posts and articles. You could probably try to find some good educational videos to learn more. That was a lot but I want to say that it's okay to ask questions and to never feel afraid to not know something if you just don't know. You should be allowed to take it slow and anyone that doesn't respect that is an ass. People that laugh at you (maliciously) or make you feel dumb are not good for you. While they aren't obligated to educate you, I think it's important to help baby gays <3

#🕷️ anon #emoji anons #emoji anon #lesbian #wlw #sapphic #nblw #butch #masc lesbian #butch lesbian #lesbian questions

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genericpuff · 1 year

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Fun fact, the story of Hades and Persephone has actually been romanticized since long before Twilight came out. Never mind antiquity, but in terms of modern media, the earliest example I can think of comes from Hercules: the Legendary Journeys, where the episode that retells the Homeric Hymn to Demeter came out in 1995! And if we do account for antiquity, the Ancient Greeks themselves saw the marriage as ideal and there actually are a few ancient sources that basically have Persephone preferring Hades and the Underworld to being aboveground with Demeter, but it should also be noted that these sources are Roman and not Greek (specifically Virgil's Georgics and Lucan's Pharsalia).

Don't get me wrong, Twilight definitely had a lot of influence here, I just thought I'd point out that this interpretation of the myth has been around for way longer than most people probably realize.

Oh I know, but that's sort of next to the point I was trying to make in that previous post. When I compared it to Twilight I guess like... I'm comparing it to the entire genre and trend of shitty manipulative romances being both romanticized as well as turned into "global phenomenons". Like they were romanticized before but at least they were just shitty cheap books in the back of the bookstore, you know? Now that they're turned into these big Hollywood fiascos, it makes it even easier to normalize these types of relationships and concepts. Even if we look back on Twilight and 50 Shades now and call it out for what it is, there are still a lot of people who absorbed those books/films in incredibly damaging ways (especially younger audiences in Twilight's case). You are what you eat, is what I'm saying. And it's a much bigger problem than LO but I do think LO is a symptom of the problem, which is - instead of stories being written by men through a toxic male gaze in which women are objectified and hypersexualized and men are told not to cry, now we have stories being written by woman through a toxic female gaze in which women are "empowered" by being carried around like dolls by an emotionally stunted man who wants to cry but just whips them in the bedroom instead.

It's still pretty much the male gaze but with extra steps.

IDK if I'm explaining that well though LMAO Obviously I don't want to generalize and reduce the entire dark romance genre to its worst writers but this is why it annoys me to no end that stories like Twilight, After, 50 Shades, and LO keep getting propelled to the forefront of the genre zeitgeist. It makes the people who aren't a bunch of creeps writing their kinky self-insert power fantasies look bad just by affiliation. And it sets an incredibly shitty standard for those who are introduced to the genre through these works.

The reality is (and I'm speaking very candidly here from my own experiences so take with grains of salt if you must, you don't have to agree) being a woman - or being an under-represented minority/individual in general, whether you're LGBTQ+ or neurodivergent or POC - doesn't mean you're magically protected from thinking or writing the same stuff as the problematic majority. You are what you eat. If you grew up consuming toxic heteronormative content (which EVERYONE does because it's FUCKING EVERYWHERE LMAO) then of course you're gonna go on to write the same stuff unless you challenge it in some way, either by reading other opinions that don't "play it safe" just to look good, or reading other content entirely that isn't subject to the norm of "what's popular". Always be willing to broaden your horizons and don't forget - just because it makes a lot of money doesn't automatically mean it's good.

#that turned into an essay oops-#lore olympus critical #lo critical #anti lore olympus #antiloreolympus #ama #ask me anything #anon ask me anything #anon ama

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aeternallis · 2 months

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I have an honest, genuine question here, if only for the sake of the fact that I would like to hopefully inspire some polite conversation about this very sensitive topic: what genuinely makes people in this fandom believe that by "watching the live-action drama only," it enables them to think they're free of any responsibility in contributing to these authors' platform and pockets?

(Lindsay Ellis talked about this with JK Rowling and how the HP fandom are struggling with this same exact issue, and a lot of her talking points can apply to the KP fandom too, if you'd like to watch her video on Youtube.)

And before I go any further, I know I may come off obnoxious and mean af, but I'm really really trying not to be. :'D This is honestly just a question I'd like to present to the KP fandom at large.

This question is not meant to be a jab at any of you nonnie(s) or to be provoking in any way, but I'm really just wondering if it somehow got lost in the sauce that DAEMI's involvement with this production was quite extensive (namely, with casting and the script). While I don't know the terms of how royalties are distributed from this show towards the original authors, what they may or may not gain financially, they do gain undoubtedly in platform and notoriety.

Because the way I see it, no matter how much we hate it, the fact still remains that DAEMI are still the original authors of the KinnPorsche franchise. Not reading the novel and/or pretending it doesn't exist won't erase that. If anything, pretending this novel series doesn't exist, or that DAEMI are not the original authors, only whitewashes this IP and the way I see it, not exactly the most conductive way in actually trying to have a meaningful conversation around this series.

Let's not even delve into the fact that by trying to erase DAEMI's name from this IP, people are essentially trying to steal an original creation of POC(s), give full credit to the production company of the show (who based their script on DAEMI's novel), all in an effort to make themselves feel better about engaging with it.

And don't get me wrong; DAEMI being POC does not exempt them from criticism and outright boycott.

Having said this, I may not like DAEMI as much as the next person and do not condone any of their harmful actions, but it also doesn't mean I condone stealing what's rightfully their written work and their monumental contribution to the show.

That, to date, KinnPorsche the Series is still arguably the biggest BL show to come out of Thailand, that this novel was undoubtedly the roadmap for which the drama was based off of.

That to sabotage the success of this novel license series also means to disregard the hard work of both the translators and the artist, to take away credibility from the original cast members who made the live-action drama such a large success that this novel license is even possible today?

That to sabotage the success of this novel may also mean to potentially close an avenue for other SE Asian queer media to succeed down the line?

Because I assure you, when it comes to this sort of thing, money talks. When the execs of SevenSeas looks at the performance of KinnPorsche the novel series and how the pre-order numbers are doing, the numbers tell them whether it's viable to invest in SE Asian queer media or not.

Because believe you me, considering SevenSeas most likely has a social media team, the vitriol being thrown around right now only tells them the VERY unflattering picture that the KP fandom (or any Thai BL community that has a fairly successful IP behind it) is volatile af and also incredibly BIASED, considering at least half of the people outright condemning this license and want it gone are also Build stans.

That at the end of the day, the only real, truest way to fully take away DAEMI's platform for good is to just flat out drop KP-both the novel series and the show-and let it disappear into the annals of entertainment history?

Now, am I pressuring you nonnie(s) or anyone to spend money on the authors? HELL NO. Do whatever you want with your money, I won't judge you.

But is it really not possible for the mindset of, "I do not condone these authors' horrendous actions in the past, but I would like to support the novel series in honor of the artist and the translators, as well as help contribute in bringing in more SE Asian queer content to a wider audience in the near future. My support of this novel series is not a full reflection of my own character, and I refuse to let online randos dictate it otherwise" to exist?

And honestly, nonnie(s)? That's something you all have to figure out for yourselves.

#kinnporsche the series #kinnporche the series #vegaspete #kimchay #on fandom #anon asks

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thatlittleegyptologist · 2 years

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Is it possible for you to have a dialogue with this person please? She appears to be a real Egyptologist and not intentionally transphobic, but denies you can call any ancient Egyptians trans and calls that western and basically seems (to me) to imply it’s racist. She also cited things making it seem like that is the main academic view.

https://rudjedet.tumblr.com/faq

Honey, I don't know how to tell you this, but none of what you've said is factually accurate and I can say that having known @rudjedet personally for over a decade.

a) She is a real Egyptologist. She has been the entire time I've known her.

b) She does not deny that trans people have always existed. She specifically says we cannot use modern western terminology and apply it to an ancient poc civilisation. They didn't have or use these terms. The Ancient Egyptians specifically didn't use any terms, which means using terms outside 'possible queer/gnc/wlw/mlm person' simply doesn't work within the cultural framework to use them. We can't even use cis because they don't know what that is either! It *is* racist to insist that we should shove a white western framework onto a decidedly non white ancient civilisation. You're basically telling ancient poc you know more about their lived experience than they do. Can you see how that's racist? Because it's pretty damn racist.

c) this does not mean that gnc people did not exist, and your extrapolation of that from her posts is incorrect. She does not deny they exist, she simply states that within the cultural framework for Ancient Egyptian understanding of gender the Pharaoh Hatshepsut is very clearly the Ancient Egyptian understanding of female. To our modern eyes, there appears to be gnc stuff, but to the Egyptians this is completely within cultural norms and Hatshepsut isn't even the only female King to do these things. She wasn't even the first or even the second! In fact every female ruler of Ancient Egypt does this, so we can in fact identify this as working within Ancient Egyptian ideas of gender: male when they express their kingship, female literally every other time they speak about themselves.

d) Rudjedet firmly admits that some of the older posts on this were not always worded in the best manner, and has addressed and apologised for this on multiple occasions. Her later additions, and I'm absolutely certain you're coming here from Controversial Truths because we're endlessly dealing with people who only see something from 2018, and assume the worst without reading the newer and better explained additions. She even edited earlier posts so they were worded better, but left them up so it can be seen how she's grown and developed better language for talking about this.

e) I had a 'dialogue' with her privately, wherein I showed her what you sent me and what you accused her of. In doing so, I saw your anons to her where you outright accuse her of being a transphobe, one of which was from a post that she never even added to that was posted, by someone who's agender (and you can take your problem with that post up with the agender person who posted it), so you can come here all 'she's not intentionally transphobic' all you like, but I know what you sent to her where you just directly accused her of being transphobic and you weren't as polite to her as you have been with me. In fact you didn't even attempt to ask her to clarify any of her points and went straight onto the attack, yet you want me personally to engage in 'dialogue' on your behalf when you behave like this? No.

Finally, just anonymously asking someone to 'go have a word' with someone else who they may or may not know is incredibly passive aggressive. You're the person with the problem here, so if you want to talk to her and discuss the issue like adults, then you can go over there and have that conversation. Do not seek to involve me in your disputes.

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ladyimaginarium · 1 year

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%100 understandable if you don't have the energy or desire to answer this genuinely no pressure here

But I was wondering if you had anything you wanted to talk about in terms of anti native racism in the plural community, if there's anything you could get non-natives to internalize what would that be etc that kinda thing

hellooooo sweetling, thank you for asking !! :3 I& hope you don't mind me& answering, we've& been quite switchy lately !! Now… sit down and listen up, nonnatives, especially you, white settlers, class is in session !!

I. Don't name yourselves after our spirits and/or our nations !! I& cannot express enough how infuriating this is !! There was a time when we& had to deliberately tell a white bodied system to change their alter's name from W**dig* to something else, not just for their safety, but ours& as a Native bodied system !! W **dig*ag are NOT spirits to mess with, let alone to use as a name if you're nonnative, especially if you are a white settler !! These are Algonquian and Anishinaabe sacred spirits, and, no, sacred does not always mean good, and quite frankly, to use our sacred religious figures or any of our nations as your name is cultural appropriation !! And, no, your "w*ndig*" headmate is likely not a w*ndig* at all, it's not a deer creature !! It's very insensitive, our cultures, practices and religions have already been stretched far and thin over the years to the point where we have been imprisoned or murdered for practicing them in the past until only a few decades ago, so be respectful !! Don't be a loser !! 🖤🖤🖤🖤 II. Native bodied systems don't care about your white guilt !! Listen... we& know most people's intentions are well, but at this point, we& don't care, we've& often been forced to listen to white people whine and bitch about how sorry they are, how bad they feel about the way their ancestors treated ours, and will often overstep their boundaries and their place when speaking with us& !! Yes, we& want you to acknowledge who's land you're on, yes, we& want nonnative, especially white settler allies, to be there with us and uplift our voices, but don't speak over us, you're not solving anything by venting to us&, a Native bodied system, about your ancestors' guilt, if you are white. We're& not here to hold your hand, we& won't coddle your feelings, we& won't give you a cookie for expressing and doing the bare minimum and be your palatable native system !! III. Having an exoethnic Native headmate doesn't make your body Native !! I& don't know how else to say this ... simply because you have an exoethnic Native headmate doesn't make your body Native and as such that doesn't give you the right to speak our languages, practice our medicines or call yourself Two Spirit if you are nonnative, especially if you're white bodied !! If you're a system of color and you want to learn our languages, depending on what the language is because some languages are exclusive only to members of that nation, even to other natives, we'd& be more flattered, but if you're a white bodied system who has an exoethnic Native headmate and think that automatically gives you the right to come into our spaces and learn our languages and ceremonies?? Think again !! :3 There are teachings by our& elders and knowledge keepers from different nations that we& are literally forbidden from sharing with nonnatives !! I& understand how frustrating this can be, but respect is essential !! IV. White bodied and nonnative systems of color are not immune to antinative racism and Native erasure in plural spaces !! Native bodied systems, let alone Native singlets, aren't often included in the table on how to make things better in our spaces and are treated like an afterthought even on our own lands !! This happens so often that this led to the term called Native erasure which is extremely common in the media, even in POC spaces !! Don't demand we do your homework for you. Don't hesitate to check up on your Native friends !! V. Our cultures are not homogenous and there is no one "Native look"!! I& don't want to repeat ourselves& but our cultures and peoples are so unique, special and distinct from each other !! We can have any skintone, any hair type, any eye color, we can look like anything !! — 🖤 / Bellatrix& / Beretta&, she/her.

#written in blood.#🖤.txt #there's likely more i& can talk about but i'm& rather exhausted so hopefully this'll suffice !! :3 #anyway please don't reblog !!

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we-are-inevitable · 2 years

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it's time once again for unsolicited newsies opinions with jac! on the chopping block for today: a look into David Jacobs being the "mom friend", featuring classism in the newsies fandom. yay!

disclaimer: this is purely my opinion and i am not trying to start discourse. i don't really care if you don't agree! it's fine to have your own thoughts. these are mine.

moving right along, the biggest thing- and something i talk about quite a lot- is that it's interesting that people see Davey as the mom friend.

ok first of all, i feel like to be the """""mom friend""""" you have to be really well established into the group as someone who has been, is, and always will be a caregiver.

and davey does not fit this description!

also: "mom friend" is just a weird term in general; it just feels like a backhanded title for a friend to have. most "mom friends" are forced into- or force themselves into- the role because all they're """good for""" is caring for others and pushing themselves to the side

anyway! moving on

you're not just going to make a new friend and immediately label them as the mom friend, because you don't know their personality or how they mesh with the group, yet this is what the newsies in fanon seem to do with davey.

is davey loyal to the cause? absolutely! does he want what's best for the newsies? yeah! but he's never going to have the same history that jack has with the boys, since jack has been taking care of them for a while. if anyone is going to be the "mom friend," it's jack.

there's a difference between Davey making a speech at the rally advocating for workers rights and united boroughs, and Jack taking care of all of the newsies for as long as he's been the leader.

Jack is more of a family member, Davey is more of a spokesperson. joining the strike and coming up with the rally- which failed, as @jack-kellys pointed out- doesn't mean that Davey automatically replaces Jack as the parental figure of the group.

also, as @roideny pointed out in a conversation on discord, it's kind of... sketch? seeing people replace Jack with Davey?

Jack is undoubtedly the "parent" of the newsies. a lot of them don't have families, and he's had to step up. he's been stepping up. he's responsible, he has the newsies best interests in mind, and sometimes he can be a little selfish in his wants- hi, Santa Fe!- but it's because he's under so much pressure.

so why does the fandom take Jack and replace him with Davey as the "mom friend" ??

i think we know why!

it's interesting to see that people will see a smart kid who uses big words and is somewhat more well off than the other newsies and say, "yeah. he's the one who takes care of everyone."

as if Jack hasn't been doing that for YEARS.

wow !! the kid with an education and more money is the one who steps up and acts as a "parent" to the poor kids !! because the leader is a "disaster dumbass" who is also a poor orphan !! isn't it funny how that works out !!

and this idea coupled with the rising popularity of poc jack kelly........ do you see where i'm going with this? the connotations are there.

all i'm trying to say is:

there's so much in this fandom that just shows that everyone is only paying attention to the actors and the characters, not

how the characters interact with the world and class systems around them

how the characters interact with each other as products/victims of the systems around them

there's no denying that David Jacobs is a good and loyal friend. but you can't sit here and say that he's the one who tries to "tame" or "parent" the kids who are less fortunate than him. it just leaves a sour taste in the mouths of the audience.

Jack Kelly is more of a "mom friend" than David Jacobs will ever be (even though "mom friend" is a sketchy way to describe it). he's not constantly a disaster- he's a stressed teenager with the weight of the world on his shoulders, in charge of a huge group of kids who deserve so much better than what society is giving him. cut him some slack. he's not stupid, yet the fandom paints him to be this wild, impulsive, dumb guy who cant tell left from right. are we really going to ignore the entirety of canon? are we going to ignore everything Jack did for the newsies? intelligence doesn't equal education. as @the-calvarys-coming-out put it: Jack would've been unstoppable if he had the same resources as other kids.

in conclusion: our fandom as a whole needs to reevaluate the fact that this show isn't just about characters and fun friendships onstage. this show is about classism and class inequality. just be mindful that some of your opinions, headcanons, and ideas can are liable to go against this core meaning of the musical, and understand why.

and again, big thanks to @roideny @jack-kellys and @the-calvarys-coming-out for helping me get my thoughts in order! love you guys very much 💙

#again im not trying to be a bitch #im just saying that sometimes critical thinking is a good idea!#and i'm not excluding myself from this. i used to be a HUGE fan of mom friend davey. and then i took a look at *WHY*#and i realized that something needed to change because i was being inherently and unintentionally harmful.#this isnt a call-out post. this is just a reminder to be mindful of any internal biases you may have!#we can all grow and learn!#also i left katherine's character out of this because this is purely focused on jack and davey's relationship in the show #usually when we talk about classism in this fandom its important to bring up katherine but for the sake of this post im holding back #anyways. thanks for listening to the rant!#newsies #newsies live #livesies #newsies on broadway #newsies broadway #newsies musical #davey jacobs #david jacobs #jack kelly #davey newsies #jack newsies #javid #javey #jac txt.#fansies #newsies 1992 #92sies

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quetzalpapalotl · 10 months

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can you elaborate on “quote unquote poc artist”? im glad you’re sharing with people that kahlo wasn’t a good person, just got curious about that phrasing

I made that post in a moment of frustration because I saw something about how Frida hated white people and I'm just tired of the way foreigners (and even Mexicans) talk about her. I'm not trying to say Frida was the worst person to ever live or that you can't enjoy her as an artist and relate to her struggles, because there are far more deplorable artists hailed in the canon of art history. But just... you know, she's not a perfect feminist progressive icon and you shouldn't treat her as such if you don't understand the context she hails from. But really this is just more than just her. I will try t explain but keep in mind that I'm trying to summarize very complex matters that I'm not even used to talk about it in English and I'm only just one Mexican.

I feel like the term POC should not be aplied outside of the US. I mean, I'm not a Usamerican, I don't wanna say what terms minorities there should or shouldn't use. But from my perspective, the way gringos talk about this sort of stuff is oddly fixated on skin color and blood percentages which doesn't realli make sense to me and is a poor framework to speak about ethnical and racial issues here.

But people still apply them and that's US-centrism, generally, Usamericans are very bad at recognizing their own US-centrism or that in an international conext they do have privilege, or that being Usamerican is in itself an ethnic identity, but people treat it like it isn't and the US is devoid of culture because they think of US culture as default.

So, English colonizers in what's now the US didn't exactly mix with the Natives. "White people" in the US are descendants from those colonizers or immigrants from other European countries, there was always a clear distinction between them and Native Americans. Spanish colonies worked differently, pure-blood Spaniars were at the top, but eveyone was having children with everyone and that was a part of society to the point they had this whole system to name every combination of whether you come from a mix of Spaniard, Indigenous people, Black slaves or a mix of a mix. So nowadays, most of us have indigenous ancestry. Some have light skin, some have dark skin, colorism is still very much present. Frida's skin was on the lighter side and her dad was a German, is she a POC???

So the fact that most of us do have Indigenous Ancestry makes us feel uh, entitled to prehispanic culture, but really, blood doesn't make us Original People, that's more of an Ethnic matter, because there are still Original People that maintain their culture, or a version of it that has changed over the years since the Colonization. There are many groups with different names and traditions that are supposedly legally protected and are also heavily discriminated against. When someone like Frida dresses with a tehuana, she gets praised for "connecting with her roots", when a Zapoteca woman does it, she's mocked,

Mexicans are children of rape, as Octavio Paz desribed us, which is a complicated baseline to create a cultural idetintity. Our culture is a mix of what was here and what was imposed by the Spaniards, there's the tokenization of prehispanic cultures with a sense of entitlement, the fact that the Mexican identity is in large part a post-revolutionary manufacturation, there is the hatred and idolization of Europeans, the heavy colorism, the classism, the struggles of globalization, the neo-colonialims with the intervention of foreign capitalists, the gentrification due to foreigners coming here, and, of course, the Anglo/US cultural imperialism that erodes the culture inherinted from both the Indigenous and Spanish people.

There is a whole lot going on that I have neither the words or time to unpack, but I hope it makes you understand why it bothers me so much when Usamericans try to apply their frameworks here. I really don't have a point, I just want gringos to understand that they don't understand and that blood doesn't magically make you understand. I don't even know if this makes any sense.

Anyway, uh, please don't dress up as Frida Kahlo and her clothes are a marginalized culture's regular clothes and not a costume. If you wear traditional Mexican clothing make sure you're buying them from proper artisans and try to at least learn what culture they belong to.

#also idk where to put this in this thing but like #as an example of how m is not theirexican conceptualize ethnicity #there is Chavela Vargas a singer who was born in Costa Rica #but she considered herself mexican we consider her mexican #she lived here she integrated herself to the culture she is not part of the culture #anyway did you know that i have had people from the north tell me day of the dead is not their culture #because we are not a monolith #god i'm sorry this all doesn't really explain anything

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