#impel down spoilers

[the-furthest-city-light]

My unhinged thoughts on Luffy and Garp's relationship post-Marineford

Y'all have a very lovely comment on one of my fics to blame for this rant on Luffy and Garp's relationship and where they stand after Marineford:

Luffy and Garp as they relate to each other is so interesting because I think despite his absences, Luffy acquired a lot of his ideas about what family is and isn't from Garp. And, maybe, learned to separate what a person is to him from who that person is, too. In a way I think that's why he imprinted so hard on Shanks--he's the first person Luffy met whose role in his life matches who he is as a person and it's why he builds himself a family by acquiring people whose goals match his own so that there IS no conflict. Fast forward to Luffy as a teenager, we see that when Luffy is confronted by a person who has a conflict with his own ideals and goals, it doesn't present an inherent issue for him--that's the primary way he relates to people anyway (for ex: Coby).

Garp is also the one who modeled for Luffy that presence/time spent doesn't correllate to the strength of a relationship, that just because Garp wasn't there all the time doesn't mean they don't have a bond. And yes this gave Luffy all the abandonment issues but it's clear that Luffy has accepted it by the time canon comes around. At some point he clearly decided to view it as "Gramps gave me what he needed and made sure I had a family to grow up with and that's plenty, of course he loves us," and not "Gramps abandoned me and never loved me."

On top of all of that, whatever else Garp did or did not think about him, Ace, and Sabo, and their dreams, Luffy grew up knowing that Garp valued them and their lives above the letter of the law and his job. Luffy never cared who Ace's dad was, but he grew up knowing that Garp also knew and always thought he deserved to have a chance to live, and always loved Ace even if he never approved of the kids' desire to be a pirate. He knows that Garp values family over the law.

And then there's Garp. Garp who Sengoku describes as "a family man more than a marine." Garp who refused (multiple!) promotions to the Admirality because he didn't want to serve the Celestial Dragons, Garp who Roger trusted with his very own kid. His parenting techniques might be...questionable (read: If this was a real man he would have CPS called on him so fast but we're going with the intended reading of him from the manga) but it's clear he loves the kids. We also know the man has a flexible view of the law, he's a Marine because he believes it's where he can do the most good/help the most people. He views the rules as things he can bend if not break (a quality that clearly gets stronger as the generations pass lmao). He doesn't seem to respect authority, but he DOES seem to respect the need for the perception of it, or at least the role the Marines need to play in the eyes of the public. He believes people need heroes to believe in, and he believes the Marines should fill that role, and that's what he spent his life trying to embody.

And then Marineford.

Garp is caught between these two things: his family, and the institution he devoted his life to. And it sucks, obviously. He goes to visit Ace in Impel Down and he tells him a few things, but Garp says 1) No one can stop the war (not even him), 2) he's proud of Luffy for everything he did at Enies Lobby and Sabaody, (which also tells Ace that he's not condemned in his eyes for being a pirate--the condemnation of his life is coming from the institution Garp works for, not from Garp as a judgement of the man he became).

Ace responds by saying Whitebeard is the only father he has (ouch--Garp is the only father figure Ace grew up with), which is the last exchange we have until this:

Garp believes in the need for the execution and the war in general--the problem for him is that this is his family. This is the baby he took responsibility for, a kid he's loved for years. So Garp doesn't do anything in the war, doesn't object or condem. All he does is take a seat next to Ace, keeps him company. And to be fair to Garp? It doesn't seem like Ace expects anything more. And it seems like he appreciates it.

So he's got one kid on the execution stand, and he's resolved to let him die for the sake of what he thinks is the greater good. And his other kid, the one chasing the same fate that's getting Ace killed now, is trying to save his life. And he just...watches it unfold, because he's trapped by his own convictions--another thing he passed down to both of the boys, so how can he betray what he told them and not hold steady to his own beliefs?

I think for Luffy, he probably didn't have much time to process Garp's presence at Marineford or his role in Ace's execution at the time. In fact the only time they really interract directly is this moment from a chapter literally titled "The Execution Platform":

The title obviously refers to the literal execution platform Ace is on that Luffy has been trying to reach the entire arc but metaphorically? It's also about this. Luffy, being confronted with a grandfather who is for some reason putting his job over his brother's life, and Garp, making a last ditch effort to stand by his own conviction.

There's no way Luffy can understand this decision in the moment--he already made the same one on Amazon Lily, where he was faced with the option to either go and meet his crew on Sabaody (keep following his dream) or go after Ace. He chose Ace, because Luffy always chooses people over his own goals. I think he would understand Garp more if he had been present for Garp and Ace's conversations on the scaffold, but he wasn't.

There's an argument to be made here that Garp is giving Luffy the opportunity to save his brother by stepping in himself and letting Luffy punch him. It would be more plausible except for the fact that Garp calls Luffy "Straw Hat" here instead of "Luffy." He drops the familiarity, and he sets himself in Luffy's way, even when Luffy begs him. I don't think Garp knew he was going to let Luffy knock him away until the very last second. Not until Luffy committed to punching him.

He gives Luffy this one last piece of advice, this one last chance to be his grandfather, where he says "this is the path you have chosen, and it will be difficult, but you're on it now and you have to commit.":

And he remembers Ace saying he wants to live, and lets Luffy hit him to get to his brother.

This is the last we see of their relationship. Luffy doesn't mention him again except to tell Chin Jao off in Dressrosa. Presumably he processed how his relationship with his grandfather has changed in the aftermath, but what he thinks about it? Mostly a mystery. All the things he got from Garp are still true, and I think he still probably manages to compartmentalize most of it as a person vs. dreams/conviction thing. Luffy wouldn't judge Garp for his decisions, and he wouldn't hold resentments either. Whatever he feels or doesn't feel toward Garp, it's definitely overshadowed by Ace's loss.

For Garp's part, the man retired immediately after the war. Luffy literally says "If I don't do everything I can to save Ace, I wouldn't be able to live with myself" a few chapters before the execution stand, and Garp didn't live with himself, at least not without changing his circumstances. He gave up his commission to run escorts for royalty and train people. We do know he's still proud of Luffy, like he told Ace in Impel Down, and he laughs when Luffy's New World exploits are brought up. Garp's the one with regrets, not Luffy, and I think if they ever speak again (who knows, with Garp being...y'know), it'll be about those regrets.

What else do you talk about with estranged family?

#one piece #luffy #garp #meta #long post #tp #marineford spoilers #dressrosa spoilers #impel down spoilers #reverie spoilers #egghead spoilers #tbh I felt a lot more sympathetic to Garp by the end of this than I expected #I mean he's still an idiot #what kind of grandfather doesn't fight the military to save his grandkid when he has the chance #but this is one piece and in the eyes of the series #Garp is not a bad guy because he was suffering a conflict of ideals #Luffy deserves to be mad at him but I doubt we're gonna get that/doubt he IS mad #just disappointed

[the-orion-inexpirience]

Day 4:"Ex-Roger pirates"

Augh he makes me cry- like on a regular basis,,,,

Throwing in some general spoiler tags in there,

Just bc I got spoiled to almost everything that has to do with this clown doesn't mean I'm dragging other people down with me

Bonus close up

#buggytober #captain buggy #one piece buggy #buggy the pirate #buggy pirates #op buggy #buggy the clown #buggy one piece #buggy the genius jester #buggy the flashy fool #one piece #one piece spoilers #impel down #impel down spoilers #right? #yea wtvr let's go with that

[beththemudkip]

Really ganna miss these guys when the show goes back to not showing them all the time again!

#anime #anime spoilers #one piece spoilers #one piece #luffy #buggy #captain buggy #mr 3 #sir crocodile #spoilers #impel down spoilers #impel down

[chimaeraonwards]

learning to swim through the one piece fandom is so strange cause there is already so much history and established fan theories like what do you mean crocodile could be luffy's mom??? and then i'll get a million video essay recommendations/scholarly essays/starchart readings on why crocodile is in fact, luffy's mom.

i thought that whole convo croc had with iva was cause they were bitter friends/exes who had different ideas on what utopia looks like??? but now you're telling me that he could be luffy's mom?????????

#i feel like im small fish in the one piece fandom #theres already so many things and im getting ~overwhelmed~ #BUT ITS FUN #and funny #just a bunch of goofiness #one piece spoilers #impel down #impel down spoilers #op spoilers #one piece

[samstronomy]

OH MY GOD BON CLAY MY GOAT IS BACK OH MY GOD OH MY GOD

TODAY IS A GOOD DAY

#impel down #one piece #impel down spoilers #one piece spoilers #? #bon clay is unironically top 3 characters for me i love him so much #dude i have been binging one piece #it’s been so great #ALSO BUGGY IS BACK HELLO MY GOAT???

[fleurdemonio]

// finished impel down and i have,, some thoughts

They had no right to make Crocodile that hot??

Buggy is babygorl ✨

BON CLAY IS BEST BOY i'm SOBBING

Robin sarcastically flirting with her captors is fkn iconic

But why are her tits all the way out in that prison uniform

#—OOC: TALK TO ME GOOSE. #impel down spoilers

[buckysxgal]

So I'm watching One Piece with my mom (im re-watching, its her first time watching) and we are at the end of Impel Down Arc almost to the Marineford Arc and my mom is 100% certain that Ace gets saved and lives....

I- this is gonna hurt...

#one piece spoilers #one piece #marineford spoilers #impel down spoilers

[dittobooty]

THERE GOES MY HERO

#bon clay #impel down #impel down spoilers #one piece #me liveblogging shit

[lukore]

QUEEEEEEN

#jospe-aks #one piece #impel down spoilers

[kookoofufu]

I re-read summit war saga for the millionth time, started making these as a joke then got way too into it

#one piece #one piece meme #one piece memes #one piece fanart #monkey d. luffy #bartholomew kuma #buggy the clown #op spoilers #one piece spoilers #marineford #impel down #shitpost #jimbei #jinbe #jinbei #whitebeard #marshall d. teach #i am actually so proud of this it's MY badly drawn garbage #i redrew some of these when i discovered the smooth tool. i am fucking dedicated to quality memes #please clap #op fanart

[ltenie]

To true friendship! - Bon Clay

#anime art #art blog #procreate #female artists #anime fanart #tiktok #one piece #one piece spoilers #bon clay #impel down

[belleski]

WHY IS THERE A GAY BAR IN PRISON??

[image description] image 1: A greyscale comic of a person drawn from the waist up. In the first frame, they're looking at their phone with a thought bubble that reads 'Oh, One piece has queer rep in it?.' The next pannel has the figure looking to the side dismissively with the thought bubble reading 'Let's be real, It's just going to be that two guys are roommates or smth... Fandoms exaggerae a lot w/ these things...' Image 2: The person now sits with a shocked expression in front of a computer screen with a rainbow originating from the screen stabbing them in the chest. A speech bubble coming from the computer reads 'WE'RE QUEER & WE'RE HERE BITCHES!!' [End ID]

#i knew a little bit about cannon trans character happening but um........UMMM???? #im not against this btw im just........very suprised.... #one piece #one piece spoilers #impel down #belleskiart #image description

[beththemudkip]

Loving how this joke of a character has become one of my favorites!

#one piece spoilers #one piece #anime spoilers #anime #impel down spoilers #impel down #captain buggy #buggy the clown #spoilers

[tinycurlyfry]

Thinking about how Buggy and Shanks parallel Zoro and Luffy but if Luffy dropped his ambitions. The agreement between Zoro and Luffy was that Zoro would follow Luffy, be his first mate, be his swordsman, the first member to join his crew and set sail to achieve Luffy’s dream of being Pirate King IF Luffy never got in the way of Zoro’s dream of being the Strongest Swordsman in the world.

Buggy and Shanks were “apprentices” to Roger (and really more or less they were his sons). They were learning from Roger and learning what being a pirate SHOULD BE. So as apprentices, it would go without saying (at least as far as Buggy is concerned) that that means they need to be the ones to carry Roger’s Legacy. That they should be the ones to get their captain’s treasure and carry out what he wanted for the world. We see it in what Buggy is CURRENTLY doing. That he wants to inspire people to achieve their dreams. Crocodile sees piracy as a business, and Mihawk sees his position as a power pirate as a means to live a peaceful, lazy life where no one would dare bother him. But they don’t have the  ROMANTICISM of a dream anymore. And all those years ago Buggy heard Shanks say he was no longer throwing himself into the romanticism of pirating and adventuring anymore. He’d be a pirate sure, but there was no drive, no DREAM behind it anymore. 

And then he asks Buggy to still be a part of his crew. I can only imagine what that request must have felt like to Buggy. For Shanks to tell him “I won’t be the pirate king you saw me as. I’m not seeking any dream. But come be a part of my mediocracy. Just settle for less, Buggy.”

Now of course, Shanks still went and became a HUGE big name pirate. One that achieved Emperor level. But in that moment? In that moment it felt like Shanks was asking Buggy to give up on his dream, settle for being a pirate simply to be a pirate, and betray what they had learned from Roger.

Luffy was never going to get in the way of Zoro’s dream. Zoro’s desire was Luffy’s desire and vice versa, because as they said themselves in the show- the pirate king shouldn’t have anything less than the best swordsman on his crew. But Buggy’s desire was not Shank’s desire. I’d argue it probably still isn’t! I know Shanks is now making his move for the One Piece, but I honestly don’t know that that is his true objective. I think he thinks his place is to BE THERE when the battle for the One Piece happens. He placed a bet on the new generation and he is going to be there to see that bet come to fruition.

And I think part of that conversation between Shanks and Buggy was how they were each grieving. They had both lost a captain, but also a father.

But Buggy has not given up. His own dream was rekindled this most recent chapter (yes partially because he believes Shanks finally wants to be pirate king too), but partially because he finds himself SURROUNDED by people who know longer believe in the child-like wonder of adventure and treasure and the DREAM of becoming PIRATE KING. I think Buggy HAD also given up down the line. I think we saw a Buggy who’d lost his way at the beginning of the series. I do think Buggy doesn’t have the... best morals... But whether it’s intentional or not Buggy is not who we saw at the beginning of the series and he’s rallying so many people under him, and giving them sanctuary, and honestly? Reaching a king’s status to so many people. 

But honestly? If Luffy suddenly went “You know what? I’m happy with what I’ve got here. I don’t need to be pirate king anymore. We don’t need to get the One Piece.” The Straw Hats would be SO LOST. Sure maybe they wouldn’t all get immediately angry or upset as Buggy had and asked “Well, what DO you want then?” But they are a crew made from the collection of DREAMS. And everyone’s dream is their own dreams. Zoro’s ambition became Luffy’s ambition, but that would never had happened if there was even a small chance that Luffy would be satisfied with anything that fell lower than reaching their dreams.

All this to say I’m proud of Buggy and support him as Leader of Cross Guild LMAO I hope he continues to fail upwards.

#One Piece #Buggy the Clown #Shanks #Zoro #Luffy #FryTalks #Cross Guild #Mihawk #Sir Crocodile #Gol D Roger #The funniest thing about all of this is that I did not like Buggy before this chapter #I was one of the people who would chuckle at the fun people were having liking Buggy so much after Impel Down/Marineford #but I did not care about the clown #I care about the clown now #I hope he shows up and pulls a fast one on Shanks and Shanks just beams at him with a big ol smile #OP Spoilers #One Piece Spoilers #Egghead Arc #One Piece 1082

[moongothic]

You know I was wondering if Crocodile ever did have any kind of involvement with the Revolutionary Army in secret (lest the Government finds out and revokes his Shichibukai status), what kind of involvement would that even have been

And now, with both the Vegapunk/Ohara flashback and Kuma's flashback, it's being made very clear to us that the Revolutionary Army was broke as hell 22 years ago. Like the fact that this has been brought up twice now in a relatively short span of time is interesting to me, that's usually a sign it's not an unimportant plotpoint

But you know who would have had money to help fund the Army

A funny little warlord who would eventually go and build a fucking casino to run for funsies. A warlord who had to give the Government some of his Pirating Income to keep his warlord-status

Like Crocodile hated the Government anyways so why not help fund the Revolutionary Army in secret, out of spite if for no other reason

Vaguely related, but I keep on remembering this scene (post-Enies Lobby), which at first glance just seems like a basic Lore Dump

But then there's the

"Yet..."

(Or "however", she says "no ni" in Japanese and you could translate that in many ways, I would probably have gone with "however" but that wouldn't have fit into the speechbubble)

Mind you, the conversation just kind of ends there, next we see Garp realize he probably shouldn't have mentioned Dragon infront of such a massive audience, so wherever that "yet" was going to lead to we will never find out, because Oda conveniently changed the subject before we got to it

And you know. Like yes, Robin could be just expressing her shock over finding out that the leader of the Revolutionary Army had a child with someone

But also, Robin was a part of an organization that was trying to overthrow one of the founding countries of the World Government in an explicit attempt to go against said Government (compared to like, Blackbeard, who currently wants to make Fullalead into a "pirate country" that's a part OF the World Government)

Like you don't have to be a genius to look at Crocodile's ultimate goals and compare that to what Dragon is doing and find a few similarities here and there maybe

(Also like, Crocodile's equivalent in Romancing SaGa 2 is meant to be Wagnas, the queer-coded leader of the Seven Heroes (whom the OG Shichibukai are based on) who "hoped to help the world". You know, an interesting detail and all.)

Not to mention, during the time Robin spent with Baroque Works, if Crocodile was ever in contact with the Revolutionary Army at all, considdering she has the ability to easily spy on people and that she didn't trust Crocodile one bit, it wouldn't be unsurprising if she ever spied on Crocodile and/or just overheard a phone call or knew about Crocodile having secret spending habits or something

(Mind you, I'm not saying "she knew" Crocodile was involved with the Revolutionaries, more that she might've been Suspecting Things, that "yet" being about her connecting the dots while unsure if her conclusion was right or not)

Of course Crocodile's plans can't have been Dragon Approved by any means, especially considdering the Army had been looking for Robin for over 10 years (pre-timeskip)

Four years of which were with Crocodile. Like if he was FULLY allied with the Army and KNEW they were looking for Robin, surely he would've called Dragon and been like "hey I found the kid from Ohara, wanna come hang out" or something. But no, he had bigger plans and kept Robin a secret from the Revolutionaries and the Government alike

Also like, I have seen people question why the Revolutionaries weren't involved with Alabasta's rebellion at all, and "Oda hadn't come up with the Revolutionaries yet at the time of writing" (/"OP was meant to end at Alabasta at one point so there would've been no reason to introduce the subplot at that point") aside Between Baroque Works being a secret organization working undercover (thus the Army might not have been aware of the civil war being manufactured), the framing of the King making him look bad and very much the type of monarch that deserved to be overthrown in the Army's eyes, and Crocodile maybe lying through his teeth about what was happening in the country... Yeah, the Army's lack of involvement with Alabasta suddenly makes sense

EDIT Minor addition: Just realized that because Crocodile was technically working for the Government, if the Revs ever did send forces to participate in Alabasta's civil army and taking down the throne, the Government could've easily ordered Crocodile to step in to stop the rebellion and take down the Revolutionaries, right? Because he was supposed to be on the Government's side, right? And surely the Army wouldn't have wanted to fight against Crocodile if they were secretly allied (Croc's secret betrayal aside), and if Crocodile refused to fight the Revs the Government could've seen that as a reason to revoke his Shichibukai rights (which wouldn't be great if they wanted to keep Crocodile in a position where he could fund the Army?). So it could've also been a case of it being for the best for everyone's sake to let this one play out "naturally"

But my point is

I'm just deeply intriqued by these little details and wonder if I'm Actually Masterfully Connecting The Dots Like a True Genius or just seeing a pattern where there's none. Like this is far from confirming the theory, I'm just saying, the pieces do kinda fit together do they not

#Moon posting #OP spoilers #chapter 1097 #I'm just saying Crocodile being the Revolutionary Army's Secret Sugar Daddy would be hysterical #Not me having to tag this as OP spoilers because of one and a half panels from the latest chapter lmao #Also Croc and Iva knew each other etc etc everybody remembers that I don't need to point it out #((Although in Impel Down Iva-chan does actually tell Bon-chan about Crocodile being imprisoned at Level 6)) #((Saying ''he's crazy too in his own way''. Which is an interesting comment. IDK what to make of it. But it's there)) #((Like Level 5.5 was able to access news from outside Impel Down to the point they knew Bon-chan had worked under Crocodile)) #((To the point Iva-chan was like ''weren't you and Strawhat enemies''. So like. IDK I'm just Intriqued)) #You could also make an argument that this could also tie into Crocodile's good ol' trust issues #'Cause if his involvement with the Army was ever found out he'd have his Shichibukai Rights revoked etc #Also interestingly the Kuma flashback has very much skipped completely the period of time during Luffy was born #Going from the founding of the Army 22 years ago to Ginny's kidnapping 14 years ago #Crocodad Real etc (jk) #You know the derangement is bad when I look at one irrelevant line of dialogue and go like ''is this about my blorbo'' #OP Meta

[cursed-onepiss]

the way my ass was not prepared for shanks rolling up to marineford, immediately intimidating every still-conscious major player on the battlefield including gd sengoku…

and then whipping around like a soap opera protagonist the second he realized buggy was there

*:･✧BUGGY?✧･:*

i don’t have to ship them when shanks does it for me

#happy shuggy day according to that one person i saw mention it on twitter #they are clown4clown (affectionate) #shuggy #one piece spoilers #also LET me tell you i still love the fuck out of buggy his parts of impel down and marineford were so fun #CURSED by the plot of become a better person #i love disaster pirate barbie i can’t wait to see him suffer from success even more #also yeh i did take these screenshot off youtube videos on my phone we live in a cursed time period where i cannot screenshot netflix