#if i'm being queerbaited just put me down frankly | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

jewishbarbies · 7 months

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Hey so I'm the anon from earlier with the long essay about the closeting thing and sorry I came across very angry but it wasnt directed at you as much as everyone in general who say queer celebs have a jollie good time in hollywood being queer and don't need beards because all's well in utopia and that frustrates me and I directed it at you which I shouldn't have

But I still stand by the general opinions I said and honestly, if you ask me about taylor, I am queer and when I hear her lyrics, I feel quite strongly that certain songs couldn't have been written unless she has experienced some deep longing for a woman. But what a lot of ppl seem to think is that just because she might be queer means she is a good person and that simply is not true. I mean look at Ellen DeGeneres. She is very gay and she is also an asshole. Taylor Swift, in my view, is very much an Ellen kinda queer

And her being queer doesn't erase her racism, her anti-Semitism, her white feminism none of it. I just think we can criticise her without saying she "queerbaits" because sexuality is not something that exists in a box like a costume that people can just try on. Sexuality is not a political thing, it's human nature. If you ask me, none of us are probably totally straight and I understand that there's a lot of heteronormative societal structures that prevent people from understanding this but when it comes down to biology, it's really as simple as that. That's why i do loathe the accusations being leveled these days at real people for queerbaiting because that's not the definition of queerbaiting nor has it ever been.

And I think if she chooses to be closeted, she is going to behave like a closeted, publicly straight artist like many others do. I also don't think she chooses to hide because she is afraid of discrimination but I think it's cos she is so attached to her fame and the attention she gets from dating men, she wouldn't sacrifice it by revealing certain truths about herself. She is too narcissistic for that imo

There's no shortage of problematic things taylor has done without needing to bring up the sexuality aspect that's all

Sorry this got long, I've had this on my mind for a while now

that very well could be true about her, but as long as she identifies as straight I’m going to also identify her as straight and I feel like it’s leaning into problematic territory not to. she could’ve felt something for a woman at some time in her life but still identifies as straight. I don’t think we’ll ever know and frankly it’s none of our business. all you should know is what she tells you, and she’s straight up told us that she’s straight in interviews. so no matter what she writes about, I’m not saying OR speculating that she could be anything else. I think that’s the biggest issue with saying not to speculate is that most people still speculate anyway to some degree, and it just needs to stop. you’re more than welcome to hear her music however you hear it and have the opinions you have. but as far as taylor specifically is concerned, she identifies as straight.

the way I view the queerbaiting situation with taylor specifically, is there’s taylor the person and Taylor™️ the brand. Taylor™️ the brand makes money. she can be whatever she wants in her personal life. the problem is when Taylor™️ the brand is putting out a song about herself with one or two throwaway lines that are either just ambiguous or are intentionally placed to make the song seem ambiguous and claims it’s a queer anthem, during pride month, and then never again is just straight up rainbow capitalism at best. but the songs she releases and only claims later they’re from the pov of a man when questioned if it’s about her expressing queer feelings because The Brand, that’s queerbaity to me. she seems fine letting fans praise her and hail her as a queer icon when it benefits her until it stands to affect her perception to her conservative fanbase, and then she tells the truth that’s it’s from the pov of a man. does this make sense? like things like that feel deliberate. there’s a couple she hasn’t spoken on to my knowledge, but for those specific two instances, it feels like rainbow capitalism and queerbaiting as Taylor™️ the brand that makes money off of people like gaylors who obsessed over her sexuality and “hints” she may be queer.

I can’t speak to other situations with other celebs, this is just my perspective on taylor specifically, and it’s totally okay if you disagree.

#Asks #anonymoose #anti taylor swift #swifties dni #thank you for the apology though

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tuiyla · 2 years

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I do think a lot of what is considered Faberry queerbaiting was, in actuality, just super clumsy love triangle writing. The Glee writers were always in this weird space with Quinn, where they both only cared about her as a Finchel roadblock, but also didn't want anyone to really be concerned about her as an actual threat. So they'd throw in these Fuinn crumbs, that just frankly never landed, because they never actually wanted them to have any impact. I fully believe in S3, we're meant to think Quinn is conflicted over the Faberry marriage because of FINN. But absolutely no one but the writers bought it. And I'm including Dianna and Lea as skeptics here. Because by then they had two and a half seasons of playing scenes where Fuinn was never given a real chance and they were repeatedly pushing that Finchel were soulmates. S2 prom? That's about Finchel, it's about Rachel's pain and selflessness...from helping Finn with the corsage to brushing off the slap and comforting Quinn. A lot of Faberry scenes are much more about propping up Rachel than they are Faberry as a relationship, imo. S3 Skanks scene, the writers thinking Rachel is the voice of reason in talking Quinn down from turning in Shelby, etc. And on Quinn's side? Her giving Rachel prom queen is her mea culpa for being an EVIL, TREACHEROUS Finchel saboteur, both in regards to their wedding and almost ruining their prom night.

Anyway, did it work? Not really. And I'd say it's 75% because the writers hated/feared Fuinn too much to even half-ass sell it, 5% legit queerbaiting, and 20% because Dianna took matters into her own hands. Bless.

I think you're right on the money.

So true about Fuinn because I just don't buy that anyone actually shipped them. Precisely because so little thought was put into it, they were so bad for each other from the beginning and a parallel to the Will-Terri marriage. You could argue that they try to turn Fuinn into more of a threat and "genuine" thing in season 2 but it starts off by cheating (on Sam) and then it largely feels insincere and like it's under constant threat from Rachel. I never bought that they had feelings for each other. Quinn more obviously so didn't but do you really think Finn loved this girl and hesitated whether to be with her or Rachel? No! He just thought she was hot.

And you're so right that this is why the love triangle stuff doesn't work and it just makes moments that are supposed to be about Fuinn/Finchel seem fruity between Faberry. Rachel telling Finn what to give Quinn was, in the writers' mind I'm sure, a gesture towards Finn and them saying Rachel loves him so much she'd break her own heart by giving him good advice. But of course we consider just how exactly Rachel knew what went with the colour of Quinn's eyes, etc. And I appreciate that despite moments of rivalry the Faberry relationship had this air of wanting the best for each other from very early on, despite the writers' best efforts at centering Finn in all this.

As always, they wanted to have their cake and eat it. But you can't dangle Quinn as a legit threat while developing Faberry a lot more than Fuinn. And, romantic aspects aside, I think it's hard to deny that Faberry was overall a much more engaging and well-developed dynamic. I do disagree on the topic of the wedding partly because of this, because I think by season 3 the writers gave up on Fuinn and instead legit wanted Quinn opposing the wedding to off as a her caring for Rachel thing. Which it did, though I don't think they intended for it to come off as fruity as well.

I see your point about Faberry scenes being about propping up Rachel and to a degree I agree. I think it's about showing how forgiving and gracious Rachel is, but it comes across as genuine to me and I love that about her, plus I think it was well acted enough, at least, for their concern about each other to be mutual. Faberry scenes land (and land with those looking for shipping material) because there's much more of a genuine emotion behind them than Fuinn ever had. Rachel has always been highly forgiving towards Quinn and in return Quinn quickly learned to care for her and urge her towards a larger destiny, which also happened to be away from Finn. That doesn't mean a romantic interpretation between the two of them was intended but it certainly was capitalized on in terms of advertising. Don't tell me that notorious twitter troll Ryan Murphy wasn't aware of Faberry's popularity in the year of our lord 2011. So despite my earlier post on the topic of queerbaiting, I do agree that 5% of it legit was exactly that.

It's so funny that yeah, ultimately it didn't work. A lot of things they intend with Quinn in particular didn't work. But after a point the writers really don't have anyone to blame but themselves because you can't have someone go through what Quinn did and not elicit sympathy. And you can't half-ass Fuinn the way they did and then do all those Faberry scenes and not expect people to be more invested in the latter. So many funny things about this complicated world of the Fuinnchel triangle.

#you're so right that they messed up with fuinn first and foremost #so right anon very big brained #that's their doom the underdeveloped relationships #glee asks #anon #faberry asks #fuinnchel #fuinn #faberry #finchel #kinda not really it's not about them

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agent-snowflake · 8 months

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What are your expectations about the eventual 3 season of GO? Do you think it’ll have a happy ending? Neil said it won’t be romantic and i’ve seen a lot of queerbaiting and retcons before in other shows so…

Thanks for the question! :)

It‘s not that easy to find an answer and I hope you didn't expect a short one, because while I was writing some thoughts down, a lot of other things came to my mind that I would like to share.

So:

On the one hand, I would like to get surprised so that I don't have the feeling of being disappointed because I had imagined or wished for something different, but I think by now everyone has come up with one or more theories for themselves.

Of course I want a happy ending, I think we all do, but unfortunately I don't yet know what that happy ending should contain for me.

I’ve seen several posts in which it was stated that some people have the fear that Aziraphale and Crowley could lose their immortality and become human. I wouldn't be very enthusiastic about it myself, but I trust Neil and the ending that he and Terry came up with.

Even though it may not be the ending we want, I'm still sure that it will fit the characters and the story perfectly.

In my opinion there is nothing to worry about as Neil hasn't given us any reason to be upset.

He always makes decisions in the interests of the characters. Whether these are decisions that fans like or not is an open question.

And mostly I trust the abnormally good acting talent of Michael and David:

You bet, they will act their hearts out…and give us so much more than we‘re prepared for!

I want to be completely honest. The point: queerbaiting has of course now become a big topic (rightly so). However, I would like to keep it short: everyone who has seen the series knows that it feels different and there is no need to be afraid. You can tell that everyone who works on this show puts their whole heart into it and is very protective of it. For me it would be a huge surprise if it came anywhere near queerbating.

The second season felt like a break to breathe (let’s just forget about the last 10 minutes of episode 6 for a moment) and, in my opinion, was also very different from the first season.

The final season will be about so much more than just the relationship between Aziraphale and Crowley. It's about the ‘relationship’ between good and evil and the war between heaven and hell, with Aziraphale and Crowley as representatives in the center.

It’s about the story and the show coming to an end.

As you said, the third season, which is still up in the air, isn't supposed to be romantic and frankly, after what happened at the end of the second season, it wouldn't make any sense. Neil said that the story of the second season is a transition into the third and that's exactly how it will feel if we are lucky enough to experience it.

That's why I think the third season (story-wise) will be very similar to the first season and everything will fall into place in the end.

It will again revolve more around external events than just focus on Aziraphale and Crowley.

A lot of things that happend in the second season will definitely make more sense and become clearer when we see the third one.

It would feel wrong to have a completely harmonious season 3 because there is a lot that needs to be resolved between Aziraphale and Crowley. Only then there is a possibility for the romance that we want so much. For this reason, I hope that even if the third season is not romantic, we get to experience at least a small part of the romantic relationship between the two before we say goodbye to the characters and the show.

Instead of an open ending, I’d like the last twenty minutes of the last episode to be an insight in what life could be like for Aziraphale & Crowley without their responsibilities from Heaven and Hell.

Just them

I also want both of them to be successful independently of each other but of course also with each other.

That would be my personal wish.

There are so many possible scenarios for the third season and I've read so many theories but there wasn't anything that made me think to myself: This is exactly what will happen in the new season. And that's what I love about the show! You can't prepare for it and still the expectations will be exceeded.

I'm looking forward to experiencing everything with an open mind and seeing what lies ahead of me. There are so many directions you could take this show that as a fan you can't do anything but think up theories yourself.

I also have a few scenarios that I could imagine, which I would like to explain again in another post if anyone is interested.

I hope that answers your question a little bit. :)

I guess it’s like Neil said:

We really have to wait and see

#thanks for coming to my ted talk #feel free to add your thoughts #good omens #Good omens 2 #good omens 2 spoilers #good omens 3 #aziraphale x crowley #aziraphale #crowley #michael sheen #david tennant #neil gaiman

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orionsangel86 · 7 years

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1) Hey Saz, this is the person from Tink's long-ass 5-parter ask. This is going to be even longer. I'm on anon because of shyness above all things but I am willing to message you off anon if you want me to do so! I saw what you wrote about that ask and I agree.... to the most point. All the 'characteristics' of Destiel that differenciate it from other ships that you listed were actually applicable to some the ships I was talking about, especially Johnlock. -->

--> 2)The other ships, yes, you may be right, but for Johnlock I felt even more wronged intellectually when it crashed to the ground than I think I'll feel if the same thing happens to Destiel. I'm going to sound like a Johnlock shipping troll, but I'm not, I ran away from the mess of a fandom it became post-season 4. So bear with me. I really can't explain what my experience was at the time if you aren't familiar with tjlc and what the pre-season 4 sherlock fandom was like. -->

-->3)But let me assure you that it was extremely alike the spn/destiel fandom right now. I want to point out the similarities of the fandom and the ship but that would basically mean me explaining why Johnlock should have been canon, and I don't think you are here for that. So let me just point out a few things. By the end of the honest-to-god fanfic-y 3rd season, the GA were taking notice of it as well, to the point where, yes, the show is being called the worst queerbait ever even to this day.

--> 4)It frankly deserves it. And it was 2017.... we thought it was due fucking time. Guess it wasn't. When looking ay bibro blogs I can't help but be reminded of Johnlock antis. At least when that was a thing, you know, because you can't be an anti of something when it turns out you were right. We made fun of them, because how the fuck can you see jealousy at weddings, literally killing for the other the day they meet, -->

--> 5) having something secret to say that they can't bring themselves to say even after the other's death, being broken over the other's death TWO YEARS LATER AND ON THE DAY YOU FUCKING PROPOSE TO YOUR GF, prefering the other over your string of girlfriends, counting the texts a woman sent the other, COMING BACK TO LIFE AFTER LITERALLY FLATLINING BECAUSE THE OTHER IS IN DANGER, and, you know, constantly making both of them have shitty relationships and be unsatisfied romantically.... -->

.... and read it all as platonic? The show literally falls apart if you take away Johnlock... sounds familiar. You know, one of the writers for Sherlock is gay. So I believed in him, after all gay writers won't queerbait, how could they? (turns out they could.)......But I digress. I won't blame you if you just glossed over what I ranted above. Actually some of the reasons I'm still holding out hope for Destiel is 1) How atrocious the last season of Sherlock was, worst than Supernatral at its worst. 2) The sense that everything is coming full circle in this season(which we didn't get, btw, in even the last season of Sherlock). 3) Misha fucking Collins. And you know, although i heatedly ranted above in response to your response, I did it only because I wanted to justify what I spent near three years on. I didn't want to leave you thinking that a ship like this didn't exist before, because in my opinion, it did. So sorry. I was being spiteful.About the 'Greatest Love Stoty Ever Told', which was in fact the big fandom tagline for Johnlock as well....... I think I'll wait and see. If it is endgame, then I agree that it really is the greatest love story ever told. And I also agree that the show seems to be going that way

Hi Nonny,

So this is all in relation to this post and I think that the easiest way to answer this is to say to anyone still doubting, including nonny, to just read the various replies and reblogs on that post, because the answers are perfect.

Also nonny I know we have spoken in private already and you said that you were feeling better after reading the responses on that post as well so I won’t go into too much depth here, but I still wanted to post your asks in case there are still people out there feeling the way you do.

This is going to be my opinion on the matter, which, of course, is just that. There are many many people out there who were greatly upset by Sherlock and I feel for you all. Its not fair what happened and what that show put you through. Your feelings and your views on the matter are 100% valid and real and nothing that I say here is trying to contradict that. You saw a love story between those characters. That interpretation, like any interpretation of a text, is real and never let anyone say you were wrong. Johnlock still exists within the text of that show, just because it didn’t end with a kiss or a love confession doesn’t mean that it isn’t a valid reading.

I started watching Sherlock before I ever got into Supernatural. When it came out in 2010 I LOVED it. My film student lizard brain picked up on the Johnlock subtext pretty much straight away and aside from some very brief thoughts of “ooh that would be a different spin on it” I didn’t pay much more attention. I continued to watch Sherlock second season in 2012 and again I noticed the subtext, but at this point recognised that it was all done for humorous purposes. I never thought they would go there. I didn’t “ship” it because I didn’t even know what “shipping” was at the time let alone thought John and Sherlock were more than friends who happen to get mistaken for a couple. That was the gag. It was what made my very typically straight male young brother giggle like an idiot because apparently being mistaken for gay was funny. (It’s not. I hate those jokes. They don’t work outside a Carry On film and I don’t even like Carry On films).

When season 3 came out in Jan 2014 I side eyed the series because I had had enough of the gay jokes. I thought it was getting weird and could see that there was a beautiful bond between the characters that imo was being twisted for cheap laughs. I pondered on whether this Sherlock was in fact in the closet, Were they trying to tell us that he was secretly gay? I didn’t get it because it was never clear enough to me that this was the case and yet they continued to play around with the concept whilst the character of John is off with his fiance. My brother continued to find the whole thing hilarious. It was never taken seriously. My musings on Sherlocks sexuality were pushed aside because it seemed clear to me that the writers were not taking it seriously.

Then over the summer of 2014 I binge watched 9 seasons of SPN. I struggled with seasons 1 and 2, made it through 3, watched 4 and fell in love with an Angel of the Lord. It took me 10 episodes to figure out Cas was gay. It took me a further 2 seasons of umming and ahhing in my own head to conclude that yes, Dean was definitely Bisexual. It took until 6x20 to realise that this was legit something in the text and not my imagination. It took until season 8 for me to believe 100% that they were going there. (I wavered a bit on that belief in seasons 9 and 10 but season 11 pulled me back and I haven’t looked back since.)

In the early seasons, 4, 5 and 6, I recognised the patterns used between Dean and Cas were the same used in Sherlock. I re-watched Sherlock at some point in 2015 and remember thinking damn yeah they really were shoving the subtext in our faces a bit. But I still didn’t ship it, even though I was 100% shipping destiel at that point. I again pondered Sherlock’s sexuality, had a brief thought of “I’d like to see that take on the story” but again discarded any thought that it would actually be textual in a show that imo seemed adamant in keeping it all about the humour. If they weren’t going to take this characters sexuality seriously, then the story was never going to seriously be explored.

See if Destiel had always remained the way it was in seasons 4, 5 and 6, then I wouldn’t have any belief that it was going canon. I would probably still ship it (the sexual tension in season 4 was insane) but the idea that it would go canon would have always been a pipe dream. So many shows use the queer subtext as a source of humour. So many shows tease their characters as queer and use homoeroticism for titillation. It delights my idiot brother to no end. I hate it. I think it desperately needs to stop. I have never ever watched an episode of Sherlock and thought that it was doing anything other than just that. (I didn’t particularly like the 4th season though because nothing made any bloody sense and I think they kind of butchered the characterisations - I did say this would all be my opinion though so please don’t take offence).

You say that the show falls apart if you take away the romantic love story and make it platonic. I guess if I was to watch it again I could try to consider that reading, but my own experience watching seasons 1-3 is certainly not from a romantic view point and it all made sense to me. Season 4 didn’t make sense at all, and by the time that was on I was deep in destiel fandom and frequently writing meta, so I DID see the romantic reading in the text and yet still didn’t understand the story. (Again, I stress this is my opinion and is in no way trying to invalidate your own). However, with Destiel, the last three and a bit seasons narratively don’t work without it. I have tried to watch them and ignore every romantic moment, or hint at a romantic love between them, and in doing so, it confuses the fucking plot. I need to sit down and catalogue all the ways seasons 10 to 13 don’t work without destiel to evidence this but it would be a pretty epic job because there are ALOT.

I understand that you feel that Johnlock and Destiel are similar ships, but my opinion is that they drastically diverted course from each other when SPN went into its eighth season. Since then, there has been nothing quite like destiel in terms of build up and story structure - unless you start comparing it to the straight ships.

Where we are right now, destiel is deeply ingrained into the narrative of the show, and it is never used as a gag. It is never poked fun of in a way that reduces Dean and Cas’s relationship. Something that I believe Sherlock did right up until its last episode. I also 100% believe that the SPN creators and cast have a much greater respect and love for their fans than the Sherlock writers and cast ever did. (I’m not much of a fan of Bendydick Cucumberpatch and I have never been comfortable with Steve Moffat... dunno why the guy just gives me the creeps (then again so does Bob Singer)). They have been so positive towards Destiel recently that I am constantly stunned whenever new media or PR comes out. I am also of the belief that someone as wonderful as Misha Collins who is a champion for the LGBT community and cares deeply about making the world a better place would never ever involve himself in something that if it didn’t happen, would be considered the biggest queerbait in TV history. Breaking the hearts and severely angering millions of fans all over the world. Misha is a very smart man. He knows exactly how much this means to us and what it will do to us if it doesn’t happen. He doesn’t exactly look worried though. He doesn’t ever look like he is guilty over encouraging this ship? He looks like a fucker who knows whats up and can’t wait til we finally get to be in on the joke so he can tweet about it 24/7.

If destiel doesn’t happen, then Misha, of all people.... well... I’d have to rethink my entire opinion of him... the idea is so unfathomable for me, so impossible, it hurts my head to even consider. Did you ever feel this way about BC or Martin Freeman?

I just can’t believe that the people behind SPN would do that to us, but the people behind Sherlock? Well it didn’t exactly surprise me when it didn’t go canon. The BBC isn’t exactly known for being progressive. It’s known for playing it safe. If Sherlock was on Channel 4 I reckon they would have gone there. The Channel 4 execs probably would have encouraged it from the start. They would have considered it ‘edgy’.

I know that the CW isn’t exactly the most progressive network either, but its a young network, with a younger demo compared to the grumpy old pensioners who sit and watch BBC every night and complain that their tax payer money shouldn’t be going towards anything other than gardening shows and Eastenders. Soooo I think that has something to do with it too. The CW has a greater chance of pulling something like this off.

I’m so so sorry that Sherlock burned you. But don’t give up hope on destiel just yet, the factors are all currently in our favour. No two ships are alike, and in my opinion, Destiel is the motherfucking Symphony of the Seas compared to all others. It’s bigger, better, and hopefully, due for launch in Spring 2018.

#yeah i'm still on a cruise buzz #im sorry if i havent explained this well #but this is purely my opinion #destiel #johnlock #personal opinions #ask #anon #Anonymous

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postmodernmulticoloredcloak · 7 years

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I'm really curious about what thoughts you've been having regarding fandom dynamics, but if you don't feel like talking about that rn that's cool, too :)

Well it’s more like that it’s a very complex topic and I am a very small potato and I tend to write things out if I can explain my thoughts in full and clearly and nicely. Also I don’t have much first-hand knowledge of fandom culture and dynamics, most of what I know comes to me through reflections and refractions so to speak, so I’m afraid that I won’t be able to make the topic justice or really manage to express my thoughts clearly and correctly.

Basically, I have read a post about shipping culture especially in regards to what has going on with the Sherlock fandom, which I am not a part of - I have watched the show, I follow some people who post some Sherlock, and I am generally aware of things, but I can’t call myself an expert of the dynamics of the Johnlock fandom. I know that some not very healthy things, to put it mildly, went down there, and I’m not going to say that everything is kittens and roses but I can’t really make statements because as I said I am not fully knowledgeable about the topic.

That said, I think that there is a discourse going on about... shipper entitlement, we could say? I guess that in recent times the relationship between fans and creators have changed, and fans have more chances to interact with (and impact on?) creators. And I guess that among fans there has been a phenomenon of “losing track” of the distance between fandom and the so called Powers That Be, you know? And some Bad Things(TM) have been happening, especially in regards to some fans undoubtedly feeling entitled to the producers, writers, actors choices/opinions/private lives, in various ways.

Now I think there is a discussion about (against?) this kind of “entitlement” from the fans, but I am wary of it. Like - shippers have lost the sense of what “shipping” is! It should be fun and separated from the canon/creators!

I understand the “shipping should not be about stomping your feet until the ship becomes canon” sentiment, or the “shipping should not be about fighting with shippers of other ships” sentiment too. Of course.

But am I the only one that feels that the “protection” of fandom from “entitled shippers” risks to be a form of policing against queer fans’ desire for representation, among other things?

And first of all, this kind of discussion seems to treat every kind of creators as the same. But there is a difference between, let’s say, Moffat and Dabb. Or, let’s say, BBC and a conservative-led American Hollywood franchise. How is it possible to make general statements of what is the correct/appropriate/respectful/etc approach to “TPTB” when every franchise, network, producer, writer, actor etc has their own way to approach the fans, the issues fans are sensitive to, LGBT issues, etc? I think it’s wrong (and inappropriate and disrespectful, and, well... silly) to assume that every creator is the same, some kind of entity that fluctuates above the entertainment media industry.

Second, are we sure that it is a good thing that “shipping” gets confined away from the territory in which fans meet creators? Or is it a way to tell people who “ship” same-gender couples, that’s not canon, it’ll never be*, so stay in your lane? Don’t we just end up in a situation where creators are allowed to queerbait and then it’s the fans’ fault if they’re upset because the creators never said they meant for them to be a couple! Despite them writing a story that was blatantly queercoded, in a way that queer fans have learned to decode for decades of queercoding in visual media production?

*I get the difference between “you can’t be entitled to have your ship become canon just because you like it” (which is totally right) and “shut up you delusional, that’s not what the story is about stop pestering the creators to make the story about it”. Which is usually directed to people who ship couples whose relationship is heavily framed as couple-y anyway. And composed of people of the same gender, which makes me think the problem is not fan-creator dynamics, or whatever, but a way simpler queerphobia.

I am not saying “shippers” are all queer fans that long for representation. There are frankly disgusting things in shipping fandoms and I (a queer person, not straight, not cis, definitely not the kind of “straight girl who fetishizes queer men” fan) will never pretend they’re not there. There are a lot of cases of violation of of boundaries. Yes, fan entitlement is a problem. There are a lot of problems and we can see them from our little corner of the fandom.

But I am wary of a discourse about shipper entitlement.

Just to mention one case I am vaguely more knowledgeable about - I have seen shippers of Steve Rogers ships other than Stucky complain about the fact that the hashtag #GiveCaptainAmericaABoyfriend was dominated by Stucky shippers. I may be biased but how can you call that “entitlement” when the franchise purposely wrote a love story there and then spat in people’s faces? Can you say that every ship is equal when one ship was queerbaited and then brutally denied (let’s not talk about how)? Can you say that Stucky shippers are “entitled”? To what, not being mocked? I wouldn’t call that entitlement.

I hope I have made sense. Feel free to tell me your thoughts!

#fandom issues #shipping culture #destielonfire

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