coming out as a passive jopper hater bc the insane level of capitalist pandering they did with s3 (with ERICA who is like. one of the worst, stereotyped portrayals of a black girl ive ever seen, bless her heart) was truly crazy. combine that with the copaganda and the general attitude of hopper in s3 which was played off as 'awkward loser guy doesnt know what to do with Feelings more at 8' was a bit .... Eh :/ to me. because it is so obviously a fictional character and show but like. disliking hopper/jopper bc of the ideals st is perpetuating and the fact that they arent compatible at All in s3 (to me, atleast) is valid. some ppl might just think that jopper is unhealthy and/or 'overrated'. because they do sort of pay a disproportionate amount of attention to jopper, compared to the other canon romantic ships (afaik, bc of the screen time counter) and that can be Weird, esp with the... how should i say this? balancer/savior role hopper takes in the relationship (we constantly see him placating joyce, sometimes even being slightly patronizing, and also they place a lot of importance on him saving joyce from a lot of stuff, which is cool and sick if it wasnt for the fact that it directly correlates with him being a cop, yk). and the general power imbalance bc he's a Cop and abuses his position of power constantly, and that is exactly Why anything that joyce does is seen as a #insane girlboss category 5 woman moment because she simply has the short stick in the power race and when she does manage to make an impact DESPITE her economic/social/'general uselessness in say in Major decision-making when it comes to authorities' shortcomings it is seen as an amazing win. hopper on his own is extremely fleshed out as well, because we get to see his arc play out with his relationships with his daughter and ex-wife and el and re-learning how to be a parent and how to not let love allude him, and that is lovely! it's so great to see the adults in the show being focused on! but joyce is absolutely disregarded and underdeveloped as a character of her own right outside of her relationships with hopper or her kids. we see that she is determined and a force to be reckoned with and that she cares very deeply for the people she loves and would go to insane lengths for them but all that doesn't Mean anything, because we never see a backstory for her. we never figure out who she is without her family or hopper, or what her motives and aspirations and emotional shortcomings and stumbles and mistakes are. for a character to be fully fleshed out, they need to be an interesting, refreshing and palatable character On Their Own without their relationships with other characters, and we just don't see that with joyce. like u have Thee winona ryder on ur show, and u forsake developing her character in favor of developing hopper's character with /not the best taste/ and causing her to be a blank slate of a mother, lover, woman and friend, but not a PERSON. all she's been reduced to is a Mother and Hopper's Girlfriend, and honestly, that's the worst decision they could've made in relation to her and her relationship with hopper.
anyway, all this to say; these are my thoughts on the matter, but i'm definitely not hating on people who enjoy jopper passively and DEFINITELY not any by/ler (the most predominant fandom im part of in the parent fandom of st) who enjoys them as a ship with their own dynamic separate from canon. because the by/ler fandom is NOT a monolith and nobody is obligated to agree with me or change their opinion if it doesn't align with mine or be forced to look at my opinion and feel bad for shipping anything. im not going to act Holier Than Thou for expressing my opinion and u should definitely continue shipping jopper if it makes u happy! as long everybody recognizes the copaganda and capitalist mindset grind propaganda shit in st (which is Pretty Obvious) and respects that while shipping what they want, i have no problem with it. all that is to say; peace and fucking love. can we (the by/ler fandom) stop fighting abt jopper we all have our own opinions this is bc we are Not a hivemind or a monolith and not obligated to have the same opinions relating to all aspects of st just because we happen to ship one thing. i am a hater and a lover
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Okay, y'all. Let's talk about shipping, and I'll even expose myself, fuck it, let's go:
I don't ship or like Reylo or Dramione, and yet I am a slut for Anidala and Buffy/Angel, who are easily just as Problematique when you unpack all of canon
I don't ship or like SessRin, and yet one of my favorite "love stories" of all time is low-key the most Grooming one of all: The Phantom of the Opera
I don't ship or like InuCest, Kaname/Yuki, Elsanna, let alone incest pairings as a whole, and yet one of my favorite manga of all time is Angel Sanctuary. AND I also ship Cesare/Lucrezia!! (both in the TV show The Borgias, and the manga, Cantarella)
I generally don't do cross-species/monsterfucking ships, and yet. Ancient Magus Bride exists. Beauty and the Beast exists. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I generally dislike Adult x Minor pairings, and yet CLAMP's Chobits has one of the cutest side pairings that is incredibly fucked up in the real-world setting (Ueda x Yumi; ikyk). But then again, CLAMP created another Large-Age-Gap pairing in Cardcaptor Sakura that I absolutely DESPISE (Rika x Terada ugh), and yet, in the SAME SERIES ALSO wrote one of the most Wholesome Ships Imaginable (Sakura x Syaoran) AND one of the earliest examples of an Iconic Gay Pairing (Touya x Yukito)
Hell, despite my issues with Large-Age-Gaps, I have a soft spot for Amu/Ikuto from Shugo Chara!, and Nephrite/Naru from Sailor Moon. And yet, I'm squicked the FUCK out of Snape/Harry, Snape/Hermione, etc. Nope. Not my thing
I'm also generally not a fan of the "Male Love Interest consciously/openly threatening to harm/kidnap/assault Female MC" trope and yet!! My biggest guilty pleasure is Alice in the Country of Hearts!! Not to mention several other manga/anime titles I could name!! It's a common trope that I like in some stories, and hate in others!!!!!! Shocking!!!
My point is, you can dislike certain "problematic" ships/media all you like, but don't cast stones in glass houses. We all have our Problematic Faves, peeps, whether you want to admit it or not. Just because You Like It doesn't make it morally exempt from the ones You Don't Like. Ship and let ship, don't like don't read, learn to curate your fandom experience.
And honestly? As a former Puritanical Anti, embracing my trash without needing to justify it (however tame it is by comparison to some, or weird it is to others) has been the most liberating thing in my fandom experience. Give it a try; I highly recommend.
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I was reading The Monkey King's Daughter (you can read the whole book for an hour) and apparently the protagonist is also Guanyin's grandchild? Can Guanyin be shipped?
I mean I can’t say like what are like the moral implications of shipping GuanYin itself cause that is so not my place but I’m still going to answer this cause it kinda of interesting when it comes to modern media. First off saying that like I have never really seen romance done with GuanYin. At least in a serious way. But if I had to take a guess it can be seen as 'possible' as much as like shipping anyone in Chinese mythos, in that isn't really taken seriously at all. In a lot of modern fan spaces there are a variety of crack ships for more humorous or hypothetical situations like I have seen literally the Star of Venus shipped with Jade Emperor just cause. But I don't see much with buddhas or bodhisattvas in either post-modern media nor in fan spaces. At least that isn't Wukong or Sanzang since they are both Buddhas. And I have done a whole thing about how Wukong for decades wasn’t seen as a romantic figure until like there was a huge character reconstruction, but that isn’t usually the case for most characters.
I would say that the most mainstream instance I can think off the top of my head is The Lost Empire (2001) where it had the main character has a romantic plot with Gaunyin herself. Of course, that wasn't really a masterpiece within itself but this was considered like a 'bad choice' more so that it was just a very strange and awkward romance at that.
Funny enough I think I see more romantic for humor's sake on Guanyin in comic books or games as likes gags at most. Like in Westward comics (later a tv series) Guanyin has a celestial-turned-demon trying to pursue him that he always rejects. Another is more play for laughs but Guanyin in the Fei Ren Zai where people just don't know it's Guanyin and think she is so attractive.
I've seen some games that have Guanyin as like a pretty boy/girl but otherwise nothing even close to a romance plot. Those are more just for like aesthetics of making every character look overly attractive to sell it.
The best I can say is that is just kinda strange and a little strange personally but I can't say that it can be taken seriously. I mean Wukong is supposed to be a Buddha by the end of the novel, so if The Monkey King's Daughter has it that a buddha can have a daughter then there wouldn't be anything stopping the author from having a bodhisattva having kids.
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you guys should really mix special interests/hyperfixations together it's very satisfying. especially if they're not supposed to work together or have much in common. getting things to work out despite it is very fun
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