#i see a lot of bad uses of intersectionality

[aro-barrel]

too many anti-transandrophobia arguments fall back on a framework resting heavily on "the Patriarchy" as the central cause of gendered oppression with intersectionality tacked on as an afterthought.

yeah, they can acknowledge that men face oppression, but they say race, class, sexual orientation, gender identity, or abledness should be discussed instead (as modifying the "man" label) because those modifiers may contain "real" and "valid" oppressed identities. according to this argument, men are not affected negatively as a result of being men/masculine because masculinity offers inherent privilege. they posit that trans men, GNC women, butch women, masculine people are oppressed only due to their proximity to womanhood/femininity, so the discrimination they face is transmisogyny and not transandrophobia.

such an argument runs the risk of placing "men" as a neutral category from which we theorize oppression around (i.e., having an identity farther away from being a man means more oppression). you can't treat masculinity as a vacuous hole or some non-identity/default identity. masculinity exists. and masculinity itself is not always inherently privileged. someone gender-nonconforming can be oppressed for their presence of masculinity in addition to the presence of femininity. masculinity isn't always going to grant privilege—it's circumstantial. the image of "man" as this inherently privileged creature inescapably centers manhood around one type of "default" man (probably a well-off, able-bodied, white, allocishet man untouched by discrimination). do i need to explain how problematic it is to center theories around one particular kind of man?

frameworks that view "the Patriarchy" as the most important system in formulating oppression dynamics tend to be rather white-centric, through the creation of a default woman and man. if intersectionality of race is even taken into consideration, it is an intersectionality that tries to cleanly divide identities to prescribe oppression. for example, if you're an asian man, the asian part of would get separated from the "man" part (so that only the asian part faces oppression). but reality doesn't work like that. people's identities cannot be ripped apart, hence intersectionality. multiple identities are always in conversation with each other—one identity does not exist without the other. with intersectionality, no identity rests in stagnant position ready to be analyzed in a vacuum. thus, a man's masculinity affects and is affected by their race (among other things), even if it is a feminized masculinity (as with east asian men). masculinity then, can take many forms—privileged or unprivileged.

i am personally a little wary of certain people who only discuss intersectionality by cutting down the blurry edges of identity so they can discuss "axes of oppression." it's hardly ever that clear-cut. i don't think anyone can definitively outline a hierarchy of oppression using identities. when we try to separate someone's identity into discrete identities, we might end up denying them their holistic experiences.

it is important to discuss patriarchal systems when we discuss gender, but we can't make "the Patriarchy" the primary lens through which we view gendered oppression. gender and race (among any other "identities") are inseparable through the lens of intersectionality. you don't make your white feminist analysis less problematic by adding a half-assed intersectional analysis.

#i'm sorry i'm going insane #i see a lot of bad uses of intersectionality #and i've always wanted to write stuff on it #i don't think this is the last time i'll discuss transandrophobia either #i think bad intersectionality is leveraged against transmascs quite a lot #aro-barrel

[transmascpetewentz]

One Challenge For People Who Deny Transandrophobia

I have one challenge for anyone and everyone who denies transandrophobia for any reason that has to do with transmasc advocacy allegedly harming trans women. Seeing as you all are very adamant in your stance against trans men demanding basic respect in queer spaces, this should not be difficult for you to do if you have thought about your reasoning for holding such opinions.

My challenge for all of you is to answer this one question:

What is one way that transmasc activism harms trans women directly, or is transmisogynistic in some way?

Now, because I know that some people will put together words that don't make sense to avoid answering the question but sound intellectual, here are some logical fallacies that your answer must avoid for me to consider it completing the challenge:

You must not include any criticism of the word transandrophobia that does not meaningfully engage with the activism and discussions that trans men have been having.

No comparisons to any sort of hate groups (MRAs, TERFs, etc). Point out the specific ideas that you disagree with instead of saying "this is just like [x]."

You cannot cherry-pick the concept of intersectionality or cite any particular white woman's interpretation of the ideas proposed by Kimberle Crenshaw to discredit transmasc advocacy without engaging with the new ideas we have put forth.

No whataboutisms; do not base your argument around the idea that trans women should be centered in trans men's spaces and discussions.

Avoid making use of a strawman. Try to think of the most compelling argument you've seen for the existence of transandrophobia and refute that instead of trying to attack the weakest possible argument (that probably hasn't been made in good faith).

Acknowledge the fact that closeted, non-passing, and passing trans men exist, and do not treat non-passing trans men as having a less legitimate male or trans experience than those who pass. Don't bring up passing trans men to say that all trans men have male privilege, because just like trans women, trans men who pass still face transphobia.

No projection of cisgender dynamics of gender and sexuality onto trans spaces, as while those aren't totally irrelevant, they are irrelevant to whether or not transandrophobia is a thing that exists.

Acknowledge that trans men are oppressed by misogyny, just like trans women and transfems are. Also, acknowledge the existence of intersex trans men and trans men of color.

Don't bring up individual trans men who have done certain bad things that do not implicate the entire area of transmasc activism or transandrophobia theory.

Do not mention Israel or Palestine, or bring up other irrelevant issues that you may disagree with me or other prominent trans men in these spaces on.

As stated, all that I am looking for is one (1) argument. I have searched through a lot of posts, a lot of articles about this subject, yet I have not found one coherent argument that avoids basic logical fallacies and doesn't just throw words together to sound like it's refuting anything. I can and will respond to all of the arguments that I get that fit this criteria. You can send them to me in asks or in the notes of this post.

#wentz.txt #transandrophobia #queer discourse #intersectional feminism #feminism #long post #i'd love to see people attempt this #i'm willing to have a good faith discussion if you are able to outline literally one talking point that makes any sense + avoids fallacies

[lacewise]

Hey. I’m still seeing near daily hate speech on my timeline, especially to Jewish and Israeli people (minding their own business!!!). Stop it. Get over yourselves. People other than you also have a right to live.

Hate speech, bigotry, and threats are never acceptable behaviour. There should especially never be a time when intersectionally marginalized people don’t feel safe in communities meant for them on the basis of one of their other identities. I thought we went over this. That includes Jewish people. That includes, explicitly, every group that you think “deserves” it, because discrimination against them is “for a reason” (the only reason is discrimination). If it doesn’t, you have biases you need to unpack and grapple with… yourself. A good start is a lot of listening to Jewish people who explain how it’s discriminatory (which they shouldn’t have to do). No arguing. Just listening.

I’ve seen this about Black people, I’ve seen this about Romani people, I’ve seen this about Muslim people, I’ve seen this about Latine people, I’ve seen this about trans men, non-binary people, ace people, aro people, he/him lesbians—and I could go on. Right now, most often, I’m seeing it about Jewish and Israeli people (which are not interchangeable groups). It needs to stop. It needs to never have begun. You need to deal with this, now.

Unfortunately, I think I need to include some examples of antisemitism: sending Jewish people unfounded conspiracy theories and allegations is harassment. That includes using tags meant for in-Jewish community use.

Spreading the unfounded conspiracy theories because they “sound like” what you think about Jewish people is antisemitic discrimination.

Making Jewish people “prove” to you they have the “right opinions” before you’ll let them into spaces they have a right to access is antisemitic discrimination. Which you’d think a group of people who just learned collective punishment is bad would know.

Saying things like, (and I really hate quoting discriminatory language, so I won’t forgive anyone who made this necessary) “But so-and-so is Jewish” or “Did you know so-and-so is… Jewish…?” is monstrous. It’s antisemitic discrimination, and it’s pretty actively trying to cause harassment campaigns (or worse) against specific Jewish individuals. If you see that, you need to report and block whoever is doing it. I really don’t care what the current euphemism they’re using for Jewish people is, euphemisms have a history in discriminatory practices going back hundreds of years.

Trying to dox Israeli people, trying to mass report them off the internet, telling them to “Go back to their country” (really?), are all active and organized harassment campaigns I have witnessed. Which, after October 7th, strikes me as both violent threats and a support for terrorist attacks.

Some of you were platforming people who are clearly calling for progroms for months and then demanding to know why any Jewish person deserves to live in Israel.

This cannot keep happening. This cannot happen.

Don’t harass Jewish people. Don’t harass Israeli people, especially using antisemitic conspiracy theories. Not every Israeli person is Jewish, and every Israeli person cannot be constantly and individually held responsible for the failures and violence of the Israeli government. If people are committing crimes, you need to focus on the individuals and groups directly and provably responsible, and the government itself. And you still shouldn’t engage in hate speech or harassment campaigns. I shouldn’t have to debunk multiple conspiracy theories at once to say, “Don’t harass Israeli citizens.” You just… shouldn’t be doing it.

Don’t spread hate speech. Don’t engage in hate speech. Don’t engage in harassment campaigns. Don’t justify or defend other people doing it.

#off topic #not fiber arts #this is a daily thing!!! #it should not be happening AT ALL #I just… who raised you and why do they sound like Nazis #I just want to make pretty fabric!!! #antisemitism #leftist antisemitism #discrimination #harassment

[fleapit]

Look, a lot of the trans women "bitching" about trans men don't hate trans men, and I won't deny that you probably face different strains of transphobia than us. The issue lies in that trans men often wield intracommunity privilege over trans women and many refuse to recognize that. Worse, it's been weaponized against trans women seen as undesirable far too many times. I know you're a good dude, I just ask that you think a little critically about why the divide exists and listen to women's grievances rather than boil it down to bitching.

nothing i say is anti trans women. i love trans women. some of my best friends in the entire fucking world are trans women and i take every chance i can to uplift them and to support them. my beef is NOT with trans women. it's about people- ANY person, regardless of if they're trans or not, regardless of if they're a woman or not- saying that trans men do not face oppression both in and outside of the queer community - mocking and denying our experiences, making fun of ANY word we coin to describe it, and acting like were just trying to earn pity points by complaining.

this is NOT me saying that trans women oppress trans men and i have literally never said that. i have never said that trans women have any privilege over trans men- and im not saying you're accusing me of that, anon, but people have in the past.

i think that every single argument about why trans men have privilege over trans women is either misconstrued or perpetuated by bad actors and terfs trying to divide the community. we do NOT have it any better than trans women do, we do NOT suddenly gain 'male privilege' when we socially transition, and while i do understand women's grievances, it is NOT FAIR to accuse RANDOM TRANS MEN of oppressing you/having privilege over you just because we are hyper-invisible and you do not see the harm that comes to our community.

we are ALSO run off this website. just nobody talks about it. we are ALSO murdered, raped, abused. just nobody talks about it- and if they do, we are women in the news. women in reports. women in statistics. even historically evident transmascs are CONSTANTLY erased and reduced down to 'lying about their gender' because it was safer to pass as a man, or being lesbians. even when the person themselves says in manuscripts and letters and historical records that they identify solely as a man. we are easy targets. extremely easy targets. nobody will defend us but ourselves - and in turn, we have to be everyone else's defenders, or we are worth nothing in the eyes of the community and the world.

we are NEVER taken seriously as men, so to say that we have inherent male privilege- and ESPECIALLY inherent privilege over our trans siblings- is disingenuous at best and dangerous at worst. it erases any concept of intersectionality, of how every trans person's experience is different because of differing factors- identifying as a woman or a man is not the be-all end-all of oppression. our abuse is systemic, and it targets all of us, no matter how we identify, because our transness is seen as undesirable regardless.

any infighting we partake in is just an engineered distraction so they can slaughter us easier.

#asks #Anonymous #im so sick of this idea of a 'ladder' of oppression #with cis men at the top and trans women at the bottom #this isnt a food chain! it doesnt work that way! #EVERYONE suffers under capitalism and the patriarchy in different ways unique to them #unique to their specific combination of desirable and undesirable traits #we CANNOT let them strip our connection to eachother away! #transandrophobia #queer #fleapits patented rants

[attackpunk]

Hi, what does transandrophobia truther mean? I tried to look it up on google but I got more confused

The short answer is that I believe transmasc people experience oppression and that misandry is bad and in fact helps the patriarchy maintain its power over us all

The longer answer is that a lot of the time (on this site especially) you'll see people essentially shitting on transmascs and parroting TERF rhetoric for the purpose of "owning the men"

This manifests in dogwhistle phrases like "transmascs aren't oppressed because they are men and therefore have power over all women" which is incorrect because it completely ignores the intersectionality of transness and masculinity

Tl:Dr transandrophobia literally is antagonism/bigotry towards trans men and a lot of people don't think it exists because of their own misguided views on masculinity which usually mirrors TERF talking points. So, as a "transandrophobia truther" I believe that I, as a transmasc person, can experience oppression due to being a trans man.

I can go into more detail if you would like but this is the gist! Thanks for asking!

#i got mail! #transandrophobia #trans

[transfemininomenon]

Every time I see somebody use the acronym "tme" (transmisogyny exempt), I can't help but see how little you fuckers care about anything except your own victimhood

That you have to use a phrase to say "this person is EXEMPT... from our suffering" says a lot about how much you value that suffering rather than see it as something inflicted upon you that can also be inflicted on somebody else.

It also says a lot about how little you value intersectionality. The acronym here is being used as a derogatory one. It's an othering of people, specifically trans men, that you should otherwise stand in solidarity with.

I'm unfollowing and blocking you now, of course. I don't want that shit on my feed. Especially when it's coming from a fellow transwoman.

But I ask you to consider why it's somehow ok to label a group of people as exempt from your group's suffering, and as an alien other to be shunned as bad by default.

Because isn't that what radfems do to us as transwomen?

wow that's crazy check this out

#literally the funniest message I've ever gotten on here thank u

[enbycrip]

I need people to stop telling trans binary and nonbinary people who vent about their family forgetting or not using their pronouns or chosen names to “just cut them out of their lives if they can’t respect who you are”.

*Lots* of us are disabled. I really depend on help from my folks to manage my life when things are bad.

But, frankly, even if I didn’t - I’m not going to cut my folks, or the rest of my family, out of my life, because things they do hurt me. Because they do, sometimes right to the heart for things I don’t think they realise mean a lot to me, but that *doesn’t* stop me loving them. Nor them loving me. My folks are also right at the limit of their capacity caring for three people to different extents, and that doesn’t give them a lot of capacity to spare for learning or processing stuff they don’t necessarily see as all that important.

Trans folk, and disabled folk, which have a big crossover in the middle of the Venn Diagram there, are socially marginalised and isolated. Lots of trans and disabled people are literally cut out by their families for being who they are, and that is a big, big cause of marginalisation and isolation.

The idea that the rest of us should just do that to ourselves when people we love hurt us by not understanding who we are - and this stuff *isn’t* actually that easy to learn for people outside the queer, disabled or queer disabled communities if they’re not incredibly motivated to do so - is incredibly fucking damaging and, to be absolutely honest, a complete cop-out by people who are not willing to put up with the emotional labour of understanding that most lives are not simple, and marginalised people have to constantly deal with trade-offs in most areas.

I don’t remotely mean that people should put up with abuse if they have the capacity to leave that situation. But people need to expand their understanding to a) behaviour that hurts us is not necessarily the same as abuse, and b) marginalised people *are* frequently stuck in abusive situations, and this sort of absolute “leave or shut up” attitude people are so keen to put out online further traps and isolates marginalised people who are stuck, instead of giving them emotional support and, hopefully, physical and informational support too.

The idea that we can simply and easily withdraw from parts of our social network without it costing us something vital is incredibly privileged, and incredibly dangerous.

We talk so much in environmental and social movements about building community. We always talk about it in this purely positive light. I need people to start engaging with the fact that real, as opposed to idealised, community, is a multifaceted thing, and all the more so for people who are intersectionally marginalised - anywhere at the crossover point of queer, disabled, BIPOC, trans, neurodivergent, migrant, and other things. We are communal creatures by nature, but, frankly, capitalism has done a *lot* to break that up, and to prevent us from learning the skills of negotiation and existing in community as equitably as possible. And that includes in small communities like families.

Part of that, frankly, *is* letting people have vent spaces. Without necessarily jumping in to problem solve unless people *ask* for that. Venting is literally one of the ways that people move towards problem solving themselves - it not only lets them express emotion they may not have the space to express properly in the situation that’s causing it, but it starts letting them lay a situation out and put it in perspective. And online venting is great, tbh. It stops individual people from becoming sole venting spaces, the emotional labour of which falls disproportionately on women and femme-read people. And it means that, if you don’t have the spoons to hold that space for people, you can scroll by.

I absolutely do *not* find this stuff easy. At all. I am *way* too autistic for that. That’s why I work *hard* at this stuff.

We *need* communities. We are communal primates. It’s what we are and what we do. And, frankly, we need to get better at being in community with each other to build the future we need to survive. Capitalism and oligarchy has been far too fucking effective at pushing a narrative of individualism which ignores our responsibilities as humans - to each other and to the planet we live on. We need to learn to see the costs of isolation and being isolated, and learn the skills of supporting each other and negotiating with each other.

And, absolutely honestly, if someone *is* in a situation where they do need to walk away from a relationship (of any kind), they will be *so* much better able to do so if they have a community of genuine support from others around them.

#disabled #disability #trans #nonbinary #trans nonbinary #marginalised #community #community building

[ftmtftm]

Response/Addon to the "The common argument that goes "Well the men in [xyz]..."

I remember seeing a post that denied transandrophobia that tried to make a point against it with something along the lines of "so should we have terms for disabled men? poor men? black men? immigrant men? what about men who are oppressed in multiple ways, should there be terms specifically for men disabled AND poor?" etc etc that was clearly intended to prove a point about how we don't need terms for every little thing.

But reading it all I could wonder was if I was supposed to disagree that making terms to describe specific experiences is a bad thing. Making terms makes things easier to get across. Imagine how difficult I'd be if you had to define homophobia whenever you tried to talk against it. And theres people who'd deny that it exists solely due to lack of consistent words to describe it.

Anon genuinely you have explicitly articulated one of the base goals and intents of intersectionality as a theoretical practice.

Microlabeling things can absolutely cause confusion and issues if it's done without intent, but ultimately helping people find language for their experiences is a good thing because a lack of language is often used to deny marginalized people space for their experiences.

It's about giving voice and power to disadvantaged groups of people. Specifically it began in a racialized context, giving voice to Black women and the ways in which they are targeted as "Black women" not separately as "Black" and as "women". That's especially important because a lot of the time it's marginalized POC who are harmed and further marginalized the most by these voids in language.

#asks #anon

[comradekarin]

That last ask you got here, just reminds me of the fact that while TS fandom claims to be all about feminism and women supporting women, it surely lacks intersectionality and it SHOWS and this is in great part because that’s the kind of advocacy they get from the celeb they worship, that’s why is dangerous to just pander to one kind of feminism as if everyone had an universal experience, when it couldn’t be further from the reality, we need to have those conversations we need to learn from one another and whoever has a privilege, should make good use of it to uplift those who can’t at the moment

Yup!! That’s basically the point I’m trying to hone to be honest. Again, I absolutely believe we should support female artists in the music industry, especially when they will be held to higher standards than other male artists (even in that area we can have a conversation about the dynamic race plays between male artists, too). However, it’s imperative we discuss how Taylor and her fans only use feminism to tell other people they can’t be mean to her, or critique her. Are these group of people the minority in the fan base? Maybe, sure. But should we sweep it under the rug and let it fester just because it’s the minority? No.

Do I believe the average Taylor Swift stan is normal and doesn’t hate black women? Yes. I believe there’s a lot of them who just enjoy her music and don’t feel the need to bash other black female artists in order to prove how much better Taylor is. Nonetheless, there’s still a large group of her fans who claim to support all women but will not hesitate to degrade and shut out the voices of woc making valid criticisms against Taylor. Just look at the Matty Healy situation. A white woman’s partner is exposed for making disgusting racist comments about black women, and the responses are not “this powerful rich white woman is continuing to date this man and is being complicit through her silence, which is enabling his repulsive behavior and she needs to be held accountable” but instead “we need her to stay away from this bad man!”. Yes, because the image and reputation of this white woman is more important than the dangerous rhetoric her partner is spreading about the same women she claims to support! Yes, because this white woman can have a collab with the same woman (ice spice) her boyfriend was making racist remarks about and everything is ok! Yes, because it is the white woman who is the victim here, and if you can’t see that you’re a misogynist!

Taylor’s silence during the wave of transphobia, the criminalization and banning of drag shows, the uptick of hate against black women, and so much more just makes sense when you look at the company she keeps. Didn’t her team try to sue a journalist for stating Taylor constantly toes the line with conservatives and white supremacists a few years back? Just look at the CO2 emissions drama where everyone was like “man I hate privileged white millionaires” and then she dropped an album and everyone forgot? Any critique for Taylor is met with these responses: A) Taylor isn’t the worst apple out of the bunch so why is she getting attacked like this B) Y’all would never do this to male celebrities so just say y’all hate women C) Why is Taylor blamed for the actions of other men or D) [justifying anything Taylor has done].

So, what you’re saying is correct anon. We can not talk about feminism and supporting “all women” while also trying to lump the struggles of all women into a single category. The initial Feminist movement itself excluded other women of color, it was something only meant for white women. White women have a level of privilege over other women of color, and we can’t pretend they don’t because they’re just “women, too”. White women and their fake white tears have done so much harm to marginalized communities, especially my own black community. I want this conversation to actually mean something, for it to be a moment of self reflection, for it to actually be about supporting, advocating for, and uplifting the voices of all women. I don’t want this talk of “support all women” to only be brought up when someone attacks your white fav.

#ask #sorry this was so long anon but thank you so much for this ask #we have cannot pretend we support all women when our silence and inaction says otherwise #anti taylor swift #anti swifties #anti blackness #white feminism

[olderthannetfic]

re: https://www.tumblr.com/olderthannetfic/724959298787131392/to-the-person-in-the-replies-of-the-one-ask-saying

it’s always been a feature of the people trying to claim that 101 feminist statements like “men are a privileged class in the same way white people or straight people are, yes not every man benefits from sexism or in the same way and men can support feminism, but as a class they benefit and are privileged over all women including trans women” is somehow “terf rhetoric.”

terf rhetoric? not necessarily. radfem rhetoric? absolutely. partly because it strips the conversation of all possible nuance and relies heavily on a lack of intersectionality (something of a cornerstone to entry-level White Feminism tbh) for it to make even a lick of sense.

privilege is not actually a zero-sum game. a black man may have 'male privilege', but a) it does not function for him the same way a white man's male privilege does, and b) it does not actually trump white privilege, so you can't say that he has privilege over any given white woman who could pretty easily get him killed with a phone call and some crocodile tears.

similarly, trans men do not access male privilege the same way cis men do, so pretending that you can just use 'male privilege' as a catch-all ("i meant trans men too, obviously!") without examining the way it intersects with other identities or marginalizations to claim that 'all men are privileged over all women' is ignorant at best. that's why you'll see people calling such statements radfem rhetoric--because it is.

in a lot of people's minds, terf and radfem are interchangeable terms. while i admit that this is not accurate (all terfs are radfems but not all radfems are terfs), i will also push back against the idea that 'tirfs' (inclusive as opposed to exclusive) actually exist, because radfem rhetoric is, at its core, hostile to trans people given that one of its major tenets is bioessentialism, and pretending that it's inclusive of trans identities to be like 'when we say men are inherently evil oppressive forces of women we mean trans men too!!!!' is a deliberate obfuscation of reality.

--

Yeah. There are forms that remove the overt "Trans people are bad" statements. That doesn't make them actually friendly to trans people.

[autogyne-redacted]

tbh, your recent post about transandrophobia synthesizes my thoughts about it very well, and im surprised you're getting backlash. the only additions i would make is that the gender/sex binary in the west was originally very explicitly a white supremacist creation, even down to the categories of male/female, and lionizing any aspect of that tends to get really racist really fast no matter how feminist or well intentioned. i guess you'd call me a trandandrobro bc i hang out in the tag and sometimes use the word for specific things (like when the lab threw out my cervical cancer test cells bc the cup was labelled M) but, i genuinely don't disagree with a single one of your points. i've been getting uncomfortable with the increasingly reactionary nature of the conversation on transandrophobia and i appreciate your take a lot.

Rambling about transandrophobia

Tbh It's been really surprising to see transandrophobia types interacting with that post all around.

And mostly it boils down to me having had windows into transandrophobia discourse that makes it seem bad*. And other ppl treating these aspects as exceptions to a discourse they see as basically good.

And I recognize that in part this is just how polarized internet discourses work. Like, if my windows into transandrophobia are largely when something egregious gets said and passed around in my circles, that's gonna give a way different impression then if ppl are part of the discourse and curating a slice they agree with.

And the consistent overall harassment of any attempt to talk about transmisogyny and constant bad faith engagements (eg attacks on agab and cagab language, cafab attempts to ID as trans women and as direct targets of transmisogyny) mean few of us are still in a position to assume good faith with internet strangers we run into who identify with a discourse that very much seems to have a massive transmisogyny problem.

.

My slightly more extended position on transandrophobia, since I've been thinking about it the past few days is:

1) I'm broadly supportive of ppl talking about their experiences and trying to find common ground even around shared ~privilege~, so long as it's done with a commitment to broader, collective liberation. (Eg cis men getting together from a feminist perspective to talk about patriarchy = good, cis men doing so with no specific opposition to normative masculinity = fashy).

2) the general attitude I've seen from transandrophobia world is to say: this has nothing to do with anyone other than trans mascs ppl other than trans mascs aren't welcome as part of this discourse: it's by us for us. Intentionally creating an insulated discourse especially around a point of (partial) privilege has a terrible track record. But regardless of relative positionality insulated discourses are just going to be more limited. They can create theory that's empowering for the creator group but it's probably not gonna get much mileage beyond and it's easy for it to be actively harmful.

3) I've thought for ages that trans masc experience seems ~under theorized~ and that transphobia is rly under theorized too. And it'd be really cool to see this addressed in a way that isn't rife with transmisogyny. It does seem like transandrophobia discourse is addressing a real hole, it's just doing in a way that rly sketches me out.

4) really I think gender discourse overall is just not in a great place rn. It was 1990 when Judith Butler questioned whether it makes sense for women to be the sole/primary subject of feminism, and we had major interventions that I'd say reached a peak in the early to mid 2010's (criticisms of white feminism, of cis feminism, intersectionality becoming a dominant framework).

There's a strong tendency to say that we're basically in a post gender world, or that race is just a more fundamental framework (which I strongly disagree with)** and I do think we really need a rebuilt gender theory that has teeth to it. Trying to build theory around transmisogyny I've found it necessary to do a lot of general theory building around gender. How normative masculinity and femininity work, how gender is policed. I don't think we're gonna be able to make a clean break from identity politics until we can have a strong theory framework that lets us talk about this shit from outside identity politics.

5) this is v rambly but I'm inclined to engage with transandrophobia discourse a little more than lots of my circles in part because I really want there to be more good theory building going on around gender, from different positions and across positions. One day, maybe.

*full of transmisogyny/denials of transmisogyny, trans masc exceptionalism and a failure to recognize and be in solidarity around shared issues with trans fems and cis men.

**getting back to the part of your ask about the history of gender and white supremacy, there's a huge entanglement between gender and race, gender and civilization. Normative gender differentiation has been a classic way the civilized set themselves apart from those they deem savage.

Broad claims like the one you make in your ask anon get messy tho. Like, a largely binary model of gender is older than history but you can also talk about the modern binary having really only come about over the past couple centuries (and obviously it's heavily contested and changing rn). Similarly you could say the modern concept of whiteness came about through the trans Atlantic slave trade (and then has been constantly shifting and getting redefined ever since) but there's obviously much older histories it's building off of.

I'm realizing now that maybe you meant the binary divide between sex vs gender as opposed to the male vs female binary but I can't tell which. Either way, my position here is mostly that it's really really messy to make big historical claims. It's such a high level view you can tell a lot of different stories with the available historical evidence. Ideas about gender and race have a heavily entangled history tho and it's certainly gonna go poorly if you treat either as natural.

#transandrophobia #discourse #gender #transmisogyny

[mamaangiwine]

Hey about your post on the Barbie movie. Totally open to you still disagreeing and hearing why but as someone who saw the movie I just wanted to give perspective.

Obviously the consequences in Barbieland are just cute and funny but ultimately bad but I'm having a hard time seeing how comparing smallpox blankets (a tool of imperialism used to kill people) to infecting a place with patriarchy (another system of oppression that also kills people in real life) is a harmful metaphor.

I agree in a lot of ways the movie completely fails to actually address things like race and class to solely focus on sexism and it has been heavily criticized for being libfem. However, is it not analogous to compare two systems of oppression that obviously work differently but are both very bad?

I appreciate you reading my ask and hearing me out. I look forward to understanding your perspective better.

Thank you for being respectful.

So firstly, as you said the movie has been widely criticized for not touching on racism or classism- which is honestly something I expected. It's The Barbie Movie, after all. I wasn't expecting a particularly in depth exploration of that kind of intersectional feminism. No... Barbie's "intersectionality" lies in its optics. There is a trans Barbie, disabled Barbie, and various woc Barbies. Which begs the question- in a movie that wishes to show case its inclusivity and celebrate that inclusivity via the diversity of it's Barbies...in a movie that wishes to suggest "intersectionality" through the diversity of its Barbies...who then is missing in this film?

There were no Native Barbies.

Honestly, that's not unusual for me as a Native. I didn't expect to see Native Barbie. I don't expect to see Natives in much of anything that doesn't take place in "the old west" or some kind of historical drama (that is, if it isn't being written and/or made by Ndns). Up until recently, people didn't even question why we hardly got to play indigenous roles in films (Johnny Depp as Tonto comes to mind).

Which is why it's so sad that the only representation we get in a film that is trying to tout its "inclusivity" is a throw-away line that references our suffering and the genocide we endured...and are still feeling the effects of to this day.

Tragedy is not one for one. Oppression is not one for one either. I don't agree that small pox was a "tool" of imperialism. Small pox, once colonizers realized they could weaponize it, was a failed "means to an end". It was just genocide. Plain and simple. Also, "patriarchy" is a broad concept that affects multiple people differently (going back to intersectionality) whereas Native genocide only affects Natives. Including the imposition of western, white patriarchy on both Native women and men. If one is going to make comparisons, they need to be prepared to take responsibility for ALL of what that comparison implies.

Let's not forget though, this wasn't just a "comparison". This was a part of a joke. Granted the joke didn't center around smallpox, but it was still placed within an exchange of dialog in which, yes, they are discussing patriarchy, but still funny-silly-goofy things are happening. For one thing, even if you could make the argument that there is an analogy to be made, there is a time and place for things- and it certainly isn't in a comedy centering around two white actors.

There isnt an analogy to be made though. The truth is, this "joke" is apart of a long problematic history of white women (like Greta Gerwig) using the history of minorities as a means to compare their own oppression to atrocities that they were also historically complicit in. White men were not the only one who stood to gain from Native Genocide. It's also a way for white feminists to wiggle their way out of discussions of their own privelege and take accountability for a system that they benefit from.

I would like to posit a question here, if I may... Would you have felt comfortable with a reference about the Holocaust in the Barbie movie? Would you have felt comfortable with a reference about Jim Crow in the Barbie movie? Particularly refenced via a line that had no bearing to the plot or any real attatchment to a character's world view or identity? That could have gone unmissed from the final product as a whole? If the thought made you pause or cringe, that's understandable. That's how it should be.

Personally, I feel Greta Gerwig felt she could make this comparison because Natives are not always treated as a living group of people suffering under colonialism, racism, and patriarchy- it's for the same reasons we are only seen in movies set in the "old west"- we are often thought of as something from the past. As though we are already gone. This makes it so Ndns have to work especially hard for our voices to be heard sometimes, because the genocide we experienced wasn't just about exterminating us but convincing people we had already been exterminated.

For all these reasons, Native voices should be elevated, Native actors should be hired, and Native History should be respected.

#ndn #native americans #barbie

[verana115]

Who I am, what I do, and why I do it :)

Hello people of Tumblr!!! My name is Vera and I'm a trans woman who spends her time hiking a trans pride flag up many mountains. Two years ago, I hiked the flag up 115 mountains in the Northeast of the US, and last spring I followed it up with another 202 mountains in the Southeast of the US. Currently I'm working on a more expansive list of 131 peaks in the Northeast of the US. This post is kind of an intro to me, and if you have any more questions, feel free to send them my way! Also do be aware that I'm a Reddit refugee who's new to this site, so if you have any helpful advise, please let me know because I'm still figuring things out as I start to transition away from that dumpster fire of a website! :)

Who am I???

My full name is Veronica Ashcroft (she/her), though I usually refer to myself by my nickname, Vera. I am a transgender hiker and aspiring mountaineer from the Northeast who spends a lot of time outside. I recently bought a van and have converted it into a little mobile-living space, and that combined with my recent decision to do seasonal work means that I have a lot of free time on my hands – free time that I intend to spend hiking and peakbagging as much as I can!

What is peakbagging?

Peakbagging is a style of climbing mountains where the goal is to summit a peak. This can take on many different forms, from just generally trying to summit peaks as a goal of climbing/mountaineering, to religiously pursuing lists of mountains grouped together because of their height, significance, etc. The way I personally approach peakbagging is to summit as many peaks as I can within a given timeframe, usually following some list that I either created myself or borrowed from an outside source. Most people who peakbagg do so over the course of months or years, so I'm definitely on one extreme with how much time I put towards my peakbagging projects

Which mountains have I done, which am I working toward, and what will I tackle in the future?

Last year I took a trans pride flag up the Northeast 115 4000fters list, which is a rather descriptive name, given that there are *basically* 115 4000ft mountains in the American Northeast. This spring I bagged the New Southeast 202, which includes the tallest and most prominent peaks in the Southern Appalachians. Currently I'm working toward the New Northeast 131, which comprises a number of the 1000ft prominence peaks in the American Northeast, including all of the remaining 2000ft prominence peaks that aren't on the 115. This one is a fair bit more challenging than the previous two I've done, and will involve me learning/developing various skills to complete hopefully by the end of the summer. After that, who knows!? I'm taking life one step at a time!

Why take a pride flag up mountains?

The simple answer is because I was already going to do these mountains anyway, and taking a pride flag up them allows me to promote trans visibility in the outdoors and spread some positivity in the process. And we trans people need some positivity in the world right now. Politicized transphobia is on the rise, and trans people have become one of the key targets of right-wingers. It was already bad a few years ago and it has gotten worse - I invite you to look at the news if you wanna see what I'm talking out. Obviously taking a flag up some mountains isn't in the same league whatsoever as these political assaults from the right, but we really do need some positivity to stay sane and hopeful in these times. And I'm certainly not going to single-handedly do that - I'm neither that arrogant nor ambitious to claim something like that. But even if my projects positively impact only a small group of people for a brief period, that will be good enough for me

Why take a trans pride flag though?

I'm trans, and I'm also a lesbian and sometimes gender nonconforming - I like to joke that I'm a couple different flavors of queer. Intersectionality is important, and when I started these projects last year, I choose to emphasize my trans identity by taking a trans flag up because that was the part of my identity most under-assault. Truth be told, I was originally planning on using a rainbow flag for my current work for the reason of trying to have my projects appeal to a wider queer audience. But then, the onslaught of anti-trans laws intensified last year, and I was being reminded daily that a lot of people really do hate me for who I am, and I know that those people would already be angry to see a queer person taking a rainbow flag up mountains - but they'd be livid to see a trans woman doing the same with a trans pride flag. Or to put it another way, on a personal level, my trans identity is the target for most of the bigotry I face, and so that's the part of my identity that I want to push back with the most

Why am I not doing something more useful with my life?

With the onslaught of bigotry showing no signs of relenting, I see queer people all over wondering what we can do to fight back. And to be entirely honest, hiking a pride flag up a bunch of mountains definitely isn't the most efficient use of my time and energy right now in that political context. It would probably be a much better idea for me to join one of the many political groups and organizations fighting back against this onslaught of bigotry, rather than doing projects like these. And I know for a fact that some people will look at my project and be disappointed that I'm choosing not to do that. But honestly, hiking makes me really happy, and I've spent the majority of my life profoundly unhappy dealing with issues of depression and gender dysphoria. And now that I'm in a position where I can actually do something like this, I'm gonna, because for most of my life I couldn't even imagine myself having agency over my own life. And, although I'm well aware that the scope of my project is ultimately quite small, I've had enough people both online and irl come up to me and tell me that my projects helped inspire them, or at least just brought some trans positivity in an era that is increasingly frightening for queer people - and, to me, that makes it worth my time

What can you do to help?

If you enjoy my project, please reblog and share it with other people - the more people who view/follow what I do, the more effective I'll be in getting the message across!!!

Is there anywhere else you can follow me?

Yes! I also have a reddit and an insta that I post to, along with an account on peakbagger detailing the nitty gritty of my hikes. Additionally, I have a personal website where I put detailed trip reports and lots of photos, so be sure to check those out!!!

What if you have any other questions?

Reach out! I love it when people message me! Do be aware, I do spend most of my time in mountains with spotty reception, so I might take a few days to get your message!!!

#lol flag time #vera posts

[unhinged-diaries]

So someone asked me where I find my hypergamy groups. Tumblr didn’t give me enough characters for a full response so here it is. Bear with me I’m high rn but honestly these are my most philosophical moments if I can type them fast enough lol.

Ok so it really doesn’t matter. There’s no one specific platform that houses all the best creators. I used to think it was TikTok, then Reddit, then tumblr. The truth is each platform has good and bad, it’s your job to sift through them.

Reddit is for situational analysis. People explain their scenarios and other ppl give their suggestion on what you should do based off their experience or expertise. Since it’s anonymous things get really detailed which is good for you. If you have anxiety like me this is great because i can practice what I’d do so that I’m prepared for any niche scenario. Tumblr obviously has an anon question feature but it’s more one on one between the patron and the creator. It’s not like a giant group chat the way Reddit is. I like r/MarryRich and R/sugarbabylifestyle

Facebook is where a lot of genx and boomers live. Mainly because you can say fucking anything on Facebook. You could pledge to hler and they still wouldn’t flag you. As a result you get a lot of cut throat ladies. Some people think cut throat is good, raw and unfiltered information is best, right? Wrong. In my humble opinion a lot of “bluntness” and “honesty” is just nastiness and bad communication disguised as something good. They definitely have the advice that comes from the experience of old age however you gotta sift through a lot of bs to extract the main points. Not for the faint of heart. I follow suha deeb and Maria al massani

TikTok is great for girl tips. You know, the things your mom was supposed to teach you? Grooming, hygiene, fashion, etc; It’s a great place to physically turn yourself into the perfect girl/woman. You’ll be involuntarily fed different makeup styles and hairstyles you never even considered. I didn’t even know what a color analysis or kibbe body type was until TikTok but now that I do I feel like I’ve up leveled my look so much.

YouTube university will obviously be on this list. I love watching breakdowns and simplifications of high class topics like politics, economics, business, art, and philosophy. I love hyper fixating on niche subjects that I can bring up to make myself more interesting, adding a layer to my overall feminine aura. Fave YouTube channels are kidology, modern mba, Patrick Boyle, big think, Micheal sugrue, duke universtity department of political science, James jani, bloomberg originals, usuli institute.

Instagram ain’t got nothing for you.

Of course there’s going to be intersectionality. For example I see tumblr as a compilation of all these different platforms. It just depends on which creators you decide to follow.

This took a lot of power to type.

#level up #glow up #luxury #blackgirlglowup #spoiled heaux #hypergamy #black women

[dearreader]

the thing that’s annoying about the barbie oscar’s discourse is that people are now using og as an excuse to be racist or are trying to defend margo not getting nominated for one reason or another. but that’s not the point. like yes i’m overjoyed and thrilled that the front runner is an indigenous woman (who is the first indigenous woman to be nominated in this category) and i’m hoping she wins. but that doesn’t mean i’m not pissed about the back that ryan goslings ken is getting more praise and admiration then margo robbie’s barbie is.

like the film is very much so feminism 101, which despite people bitching online was always the point as it’s meant primarily for children and it helped a lot of teens and women be introduced to the topic of feminism because they’d never learned it before, there were woman leaving bad relationships and teenagers crying because they felt seen in america ferreras monologue. yes, the film didn’t go to heavy into intersectionality but it still showed a lot of woman what they needed to hear and is also going to show young girls that it’s okay to not be perfect. this film was always meant to highlight woman as a whole.

so why is it that everyone is going crazy over ken? why are there 75 remixes of “i’m just ken” or the “kenenough” sweaters everywhere? why is ken getting more love and praise than barbie? THATS THE ISSUE! if ken hadn’t been nominated for best supporting actor i don’t think as many people would be upset (though their still would be discourse), but it’s the fact that KEN was nominated over BARBIE. the male antagonist is being given for love and appreciation than the actual lead or the director. like even ryan gosling is saying this is BS.

this is just a pointless rant but i’m just genuinely annoyed that everything i’ve seen is either racist or trying to call out how everyone upset is just angry because white feminism (which there is a lot of that, see the LA times article about this) when it’s actually more about how a film that’s feminism 101 is being snubbed and only praised for its male achievements.

like, whether or not margo or greta deserved to win is a whole other conversation to have. but the fact their not even nominated is a big issue with hollywood and the academy as a whole and it’s literally being perfectly demonstrated.

again, im excited that lily gladstone is the front runner because that is a HUGE achievement for feminism, but we can still acknowledge the elephant in the room

#pointless rant #kelly babels

[emmalouloubean]

This probably a little ramble-y, but whatever. I watched Barbie today and ngl I was disappointed. It's not a bad movie, it just didn't live up to the hype for me. i was expecting to feel a certain way when it finished, the way seemingly everyone else felt, but I felt kinda... isolated and empty. I'm disabled and I can't go to the theater (we're still in a pandemic and if you don't still think so, then honestly you can stop reading here) so I watched it at home, by myself. And it was lonely. All over social media, it was made abundantly clear that Barbie was more than a movie, it was an experience. It was an experience for everyone else that I didn't get to have and it seemed like it kinda made the movie better for everyone. It felt like plain feminism without intersectionality. Yes, the casting was diverse, but there was no substance to any of it. And I can't speak to all facets of that diversity, but the disability representation just felt so hollow. The barbie in the wheelchair was there for what two scenes? And it's not that I don't appreciate it I just wanted something more. (And weird barbie also felt strange, like she felt disabled-coded, but not at the same time? idk) It was like, they wanted us to see that cared about it, but it didn't feel like they did, it just felt slapped on. I hope this makes somewhat sense, I just wanted to get my thoughts out cause I had a lot of mixed feelings.

#barbie #disability #disabled #genuinely not hating on this movie #intersectionality