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#guess it's going in the broader

chicago-geniza · 1 year

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immediate echolalic template - inverted commas, like vogel's white words, to denote/demarcate a purely utilitarian phrase, so overused as a cliche or discursively circumscribed it had become wholly instrumental and voided of meaning!!! - '"as a survivor" of actual child abuse i have the moral and epistemic authority to tell you to shut the fuck up'

#guess it's going in the broader #philosopher polycule tag #dvoyre tag #rolling your eyes at the standpoint epistemology of the politics of identity but invoking it for the sake of argument #we love to see it

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writeouswriter · 2 months

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Started watching a show with one character that my friends just absolutely hate, like truly despise, they think he's shallow and see no sense of redeeming qualities or characteristics or anything, they cannot *stand* him, but I... think he's so far the most complex and compelling character of the series.

Like, sure, he's done some questionable things, he's very much the product of his terrible upbringing, perpetuating the cycle of abuse; he's not quote unquote "good," but he's interesting *as a character,* you see how he cycles between doing good things and bad, you understand why he is the way he is, you see how he digs himself deeper, and my friends said well, they prefer characters who *break* the cycle, who dig themselves out of it, which, yeah, that's fine, sure, but... you do realize it doesn't always work like that, right? Some people don't break the cycle, some people can't, and not always for lack of trying. And even if it did work like that, you do realize the difficulty of that task, right? Breaking that cycle doesn't just happen overnight (or over the length of a single episode or even several), it's messy, it's ugly, it's gradual, it takes time, and this particular show is still very much in its infancy.

Even then, if that really is their caveat, in this case, in the little details, even if he screws up more often than not and isn't directly shunned, even if it's not in conventional, accepted or huge ways, you can clearly see this character actually *is* trying? To be a better father, to care for his friends, amidst his own issues and his fear of being seen as vulnerable or taken for granted, underneath a very obvious mask *designed* to make people see him one way or be disgusted by him, but audiences have no patience anymore... and no ability to sense when a mask *is* a mask, even when it slips, even when presented on a stage.

I mean, I'm not saying they have to *like* this character, to each their own, he's weird, he is occasionally awful, I understand the distaste on that front, but it's genuinely disheartening to see all the other details of his personality just completely fly under the radar or over everyone's heads because no one wants to look beyond the surface, and no one wants a "damaged" character anything less than pure or palatable in specific ways. No one wants a less than perfect victim.

And yeah I know I'm overreacting a little, again, I reiterate, you can like or dislike any character you want for whatever reasons you please, god knows I hate plenty of characters and some don't have any redeeming qualities even writing wise, but... sometimes looking at things just a little longer or through a different perspective can give you a whole new respect or understanding you might never have thought of.

Characters are complex. People are complex. And sometimes, it really *is* that deep, and you can't expect every character or piece of media to hold your hand and directly spell out its moral code for you like it's made for children.

#media #character analysis #media analysis #blorbo from my shows #this almost word for word could weirdly apply to two separate characters i've been watching 😭#but it's actually not about the usual character i go on vague rambles about #anywho...#on writing (sort of)#tv shows #media literacy #this is a long rant for a character i don't even particularly have strong feelings for but it applies to other things in a broader sense 😭#and just going in braced for the worst with this one from everything they said of him... actually seeing him and how he acted was just like #wait hold on now this doesn't match up #anyway posting this now because if i don't i'll probably fret over it in drafts for months #i'm not even saying the media is good i'm just saying some things are a little more complex than given credit 😭#and it's sad we're losing that #long post #i guess

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statementlou · 19 days

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So you think he didnt know he was going to be asked that question? To me it looks like both the interviewer and Louis knew what the next question would be about

I don't know and we never will! I tend to automatically bristle a bit at people saying everything is planted planned fake etc because I really just... disagree. So so much of the time. And I don't find it remotely unlikely that an interviewer in LATAM (where like... everyone is a larrie) would ask that and I don't find anything about any of it strange, including that he would be able to answer the question the way he did and without a reaction. But who knows? If they did plant that now I wouldn't find it weird at all (though I don't think they did); however it came about I'm sure they're very interested in taking the temperature of the fanbase around this, seeing what the response is. The fanbase is going through a lot of growth and changes, especially around this stuff! I'd give a lot to know what they're seeing tbh to have that data, it would be truly fascinating. I will say however that I really do not think they arranged for this to drop at the end of his press tour as I've seen suggested (and I imagine there are still more interviews that haven't dropped yet so it isn't even the end? I'm not keeping track but probably?). It was recorded on the very first day of the junket- and having seen this I would guess that NOT knowing when it was going to drop is why Louis has been so very Online these last days monitoring the progress of his little junket tour, knowing that at some point things were going to blow up with this and checking to see if it was happening yet (especially as he probably thought it was going to drop while he was still face to face interacting with fans every day and he'd certainly want to know when it had dropped for that.)

#god to have access to their data and conclusions WHAT I WOULDN'T GIVE #lets say they did plant it which again I'm not saying I buy into at all I really just don't think they DO that #but IF THEY DID #I bet it would have been with the intention of it dropping while he was still on his little tour and out there #I have been fighting the impulse to call it a rainbow tour for days I'M SORRY ARGENTINIANS #I used to listen the evita soundtrack a lot when I was really young I'm not proud but it is IN THERE😞#also I'm really not saying it was planted or that I think so BUT #either way #nice that it was just about harry and not 'are you gay' ALTHOUGH #telling that he ofc answers the broader question as if that was what was asked #in fact I think in some ways his stock answer that addresses a lot of things that were NOT brought up at all #is evidence it was NOT planned #like to the casual observer who knows nothing... what the heck does his kid have to do with that?#I guess the gP would assume the question is are you gay or straight (only choices) maybe... but they sure wouldn't know #about the kid stuff #and actually if they were going to plant something surely it would be more vague and not so HARRy STYLES #yeah no I REALLY dont think they did any of that

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apoptoses · 1 year

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“In Venice, he’d looked out of his room at the Danieli, to see Armand staring from a window across the way.“

The hotel Daniel checks into early in his and Armand’s relationship, the Danieli, is fascinating.

The original structure was built in the 14th century by the wealthy Dandolo family, and then later in the 16th century was divided into three separate sections for different members of the family. It was turned into a hotel in 1822, and joined with two other grand buildings: Palazzo Casa Nuova (previously the site of the Venetian treasury) and the Palazzo Danieli Excelsior (a building erected in 1948 when a structure separating the Palazzo Dandolo and Palazzo delle Prigioni was torn down to make way for the expansion of the hotel).

It’s situated near the entrance of the grand canal, the same canal Marius and Armand lived on together, and overlooks the lagoon.

When you walk inside it looks like this:

The grand steps into the palace, which were once outdoors, are now inside, protected by a great 19th century glass ceiling.

The front desk is made of beautifully carved, renaissance style linenfold paneling, retaining the original design of the hotel from 1822.

Every common area in the hotel is pure luxury, filled with antique furniture and artwork. And the rooms themselves?

Decorated in a baroque-meets-victorian style, every single one is to die for.

Even the simpler rooms are beautifully attired.

In the book, however, it says that Daniel sees Armand in a window across the canal. I did some digging to figure out exactly which canal it would have been talking about and which rooms have that view (and thus exactly how much luxury Daniel would have been treating himself to)

The canal view rooms are some of the more expensive rooms. While not as ostentatious as the suites with their mural ceilings, they’re still listed just a tier below the suites. Through the balcony door there you can see the windows Armand might have been in. Across the canal is a more budget friendly hotel, the Venice Ca’Rosy.

The canal Daniel’s room overlooked is a lovely place all on its own. In this photo the Danieli is on the left, the Ca Rosy is on the right.

Current prices for rooms at the Danieli start at $700/night. Unfortunately the Danieli has changed ownership and will temporarily close in January, and undergo ‘extensive renovations’ over the next two years. What that means for the decor it’s hard to say.

I think it says something interesting about Daniel that he stayed here. When he had the money from his advance for Interview in his pocket he ate at the Copley (within another luxury hotel that he possibly was staying at) and then chose a hotel that’s amongst the priciest in Venice and paid for one of their finest rooms. It makes you question whether Armand introduced him to an expensive lifestyle or if he always had a taste for fine things, just sometimes when his life was falling apart he couldn’t afford them.

(There’s also the fun question of did Armand not speak to him in Venice because this is a building he has memories in but that’s a whole other meta post)

#daniel mollloy is a bougie bitch you heard it here first #i've been going through a slowly compiling images of all the places named that they went to #and it's a whirlwind of luxury #i think it's really easy to assume that all of the stuff they did was because armand liked it #and daniel was along for the ride every time #but i think daniel has a broader range of interests and tastes than we give him credit for #he even admits that on night island he loved the luxury everywhere they went #things to chew on i guess #daniel molloy #the vampire chronicles #armand/daniel #vc meta

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grymmdark · 3 months

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my sister just dropped a whole rant on how she's not gonna vote in the next election and how everything is fucked politically etc. and it was all so depressing and nihilistic i just dont know how to respond. like yeah that stuff sucks i agree but giving up isn't gonna make it suck less.

she went on about how if the republicans do win that'd somehow make the democrats actually get their shit together when in reality it wouldn't cus it'd only make them look better without having to put the actual work in.

and yeah unfortunately the Democrats know that people will vote blue no matter who and so can get away with shitty and mediocre candidates, but part of the issue is that the democrats have so little power that people dont get to be picky. if people didn't have to scramble for whatever democratic candidate to attempt to stop republicans, and instead we could be more confident that a democrat would get elected then they could get to be picky.

#grymms spectacular fucking posts #i really do get where she's coming from in terms of not wanting to vite for biden but the thing is if he's the dem canidate then it's eithe #him or trump probably. and biden is terrible but trump is so much worse. not just in himself but also his supporters both in and outside go #if he wins we're guaranteed fucked. if biden wins we're slightly less fucked #we're fucked either way but still #i was also hit by how different our worldviews actually are during this conversation. like we're similar in both being trans and disabled #but those things effect our outlooks and experiences in such different ways #like i feel like those parts of me help me understand the world in a broader way and therefore help in a broader way even if they also do #make me oppressed. i find joy or at least strength in some way in these parts of me #but she just kinda is isolated by them. and i am too but not nearly as much mostly because i fight against the idea that i have to be #isolated by them and that the world is always cruel to people like me #it kinda reminded me of the ''you are a tar pit'' thing but in a different way #like idk how to put it but being stuck so far in ones own depression that being around them is inherently depressing i guess #like a tar pit. sucks you in

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shopcat · 1 year

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i think Perhaps like remember toast potent and that massive public breakdown about the surgery scars and all their favourite anime boys have huge dicks and swinging balls. i think maybe people find it hard to seperate being trans from their own dysphoria and so seeing a character they have found comfort in or even projected some sort of ideal self or gender envy on as trans is upsetting bc then they imagine them with the same dysphoric mindset does that make sense. like a switch flips somewhere and suddenly that character is now "a girl" "as well" because of.. dysphoria. and everything else reminds them of it. BUT FOR ME personally it just adds to it and they're still the same GUY just also yknow. Like me. and it's always small stuff too like in the same way it's not a big part of MY life it's just A part LIKE top surgery scars or a binder or hrt or literally just dialogue or clothing. and i tend to get most of my own positive thinking towards transness through the filter of these characters so in a way it's been like a certain kind of foundational in my own self image other than other real live trans ppl just existing obv. but it's fun it's just a headcanon end of the day like anything.

#🐾#was talking abt trans hcs like 30 different times today seems to be a hot topic #like i've never not seen trans fanart that hasn't made me like so insanely over the moon it gets me every time without fail and always will #also i think that particular line of thinking is well obviously not healthy and can backfire very quickly #and i've seen hundreds of transmascs project their own dysphoria and then get mad when WE get mad #like YOU feeling bad about something doesn't acruallg mean ANYTHING not to be harsh it's just true. it only matters to you #like that ridiculous bullshit where someone will be like seeing people with top surgery scars just upsets me bc it reminds me of my own #chest dysphoria OR because i can't get it at this time or maybe ever like okay go gargle some rocks idc . loser #IDK i guess end of the day this all ties into real gender issues which vary from person to person and no one has any authority on #let alone ME !#i just personally think when ppl perhaps idealise the cis body too much it can obviously end up in self esteem spirals and such #and i personally try to focus more on how every body as in Physical body is .. unique and different holds fat different #there's no one way to be fem or masc even if there's a society typical way #and even that society typical way is far broader than u would probably think or assume idk #plus how i've seen way more cis men w my body type than not even pre t #Agh... Wwll this got long 👍

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yarrowleef · 2 years

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making sense of starclan will get a lot easier once everyone accepts that despite the way living cats talk about it, starclan is not and never has been a single cohesive deity or god, they are just a collection of individuals with different agendas. they just let living cats talk about them like they are One-God-Like-Force because they think it's better to keep everyone's faith absolute if they seem in control, and starclan's only unifying opinion is that they are terrified of cats losing faith because it might mean their afterlife will fall apart (since belief and memory is literally what they run on in this world)

so if you're wondering why some starclan cats said one thing while other starclan cats said another thing, its because they are individals as prone to disagreeing as living cats (spottedleaf and yellowfang are two examples of cats i personally believe often meddle and do things without asking/ever telling the rest of starclan)

#warrior cats #yarrow speaks #this is part of my growing 'making sense of starclan' document #sometimes starclan knowing lies or says things they are unsure about for the sake of what they think is the greater good #like canonically-thats not just an assumption #starclan is a slave to fate and whatever intangible force actually gives them prophecy #they dont know how it works they just know they are afraid of going against it too hard #because rocking the boat could fuck up their sparkly ghost forest #like how ashfurs wild rule breaking literally started melting the afterlife. thats what they are always afraid of #(in my long theory doc. i know the actual authors have no plan but idc what they think)#a big central part of this is starclan doesn't fully understand what they are either and they dont know what would and wouldn't ruin them #so they are deeply afraid to change anything #starclan theory #they are all just guessing all the time. maybe many of them believe their own bullshit. i mean most of them probly do #in a 'well fate wouldn't have placed us here if our opinions weren't meant to be treated as correct!!'#the rest are just 'fake it till we make it we cant let the clans know how confused we are'#think how often a starclan cat will admit to some protag that starclan doesnt actually know and see everything #even though the broader religion of the clans does not acknowledge that and the average cat talks about them as if they are all powerful #lissen i'll put all this together eventually

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unproduciblesmackdown · 2 years

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just a like medley smoothie of jared-centered / deh thoughts

haunted by this post i saw the other day just going like “um if you’re too non confrontational stop thinking it’s b/c you’re so nice & kind, actually it’s an Issue & sounds like Someone needs to work on themselves” like first of all i think if the conclusion of your post is just “have you considered your individual responsibility??” re: anything connected to you know, the concept of mental health, yes, i think people have, & just leaving it at that is like okay not sure how that’s even theoretically helpful for the non confrontational masses who might be wondering how to do that (although great to not make up Advice just based on guesses / vibes ig. forever recall some incredible post of yore telling everyone if they had interpersonal issues that Could hurt people they just needed to isolate themselves until they were past all that...) like well i guess it helps the op celebrate their clear-eyed perspective here

anyways of course another part of it is like uh i’m sure it Could apply to Some people but do you think any & everyone who might be like, non confrontational, which is a vague concept there, has that quality b/c they are like “this is really nice of me” lol vs that people are Aware they’re like hindered in some realm here / the idea that the behavior will be received Positively isn’t in a “what a polite young man” expecting way....i.e. like pretty sure it’s more broadly relevant that Other People who are observing someone being nonconfrontational who might go “wow guess they’re just Too Nice” or whatever lol which yeah not a helpful perspective to see Anything abt what’s going on with anyone else merely in terms of whether it is convenient or inconvenient to you & read into (your idea of their) motivations & react to them accordingly, such as that people might end up “nonconfrontational” b/c of other ppl’s negative treatment first and foremost, not b/c they’re primarily chasing being seen as like this extra kind person all the time

clearly the transition to deh there was like, well, just like the interpretation of evan’s anxiety as being you know, not something Unhelpful to him & to his relationships, not something defensive / counterproductive to vulnerability & connection for him, it’s actually just that he’s obviously cinnamon roll too good too pure & thus too nice or kind to not be nobly putting everyone’s feelings before his own, is totally what’s happening here, plus he thinks sex drugs language & violence is all shocking & too much for him or whatever.

it’s always funny b/c like i swear jared is the character who avoids confrontation / conflict the hardest, given that he does it with everyone, including evan, while evan is more willing to confront(tm) and/or hold his ground with jared than jared is back at him, but this is like, a Secret Fact & instead idk there he goes getting interpreted as someone who’s always pushing evan around b/c jared must be overly confrontational since he doesn’t seem Too Nice/Kind or anything

i mean of course it’s like F for not only flattening the characters to be paper thin but also inaccurately so lol like ah jared seems Rude to me on the surface vs evan seeming Nervous so time to just make those their One defining trait & go wild extrapolating their internality from that, evan must be too damn soft to be so anxious, jared must be callous to malicious to be so mean; vs that like, when they’re being more spontaneous / earnest, evan can be a fun rude little guy & jared can be hesitant / [fear]......like what’s next, alana Just either living for homework & overachieving b/c she’s a nerd who is fueled by it &/or a killjoy goody two shoes & all in all like, incapable of reflection / questioning anything & there’s only [self-righteousness] in there like....yeah that is probably next

like you know interpret anything however but it’s always wild with fan stuff like, so this is character appreciation motivated And working with the theme-relevant concept of like, what if these similar characters could Connect, how could that happen for them.......bit limiting & disappointing when it’s like “why are not only the characters really flat & imo inaccurate but also those ways in which they could all have a better time are not only Still imo inaccurate by extension of the weird characterization but also like, really flat and ‘here’s the one thing everyone Should Do to fix this other person, and not only that, but they absolutely just Can and Do all consistently do that thing so we can speedrun the end to problems-having’” like yeah it’d be a whole Story / more involved & ongoing thing to explore more involved & ongoing ways that people connecting / realizing helpful things about themselves & each other could go down, but it’s then one thing to go “ok a premise of this story is that they’re all already friends” and another to like, bother to go “and then evan just needs someone to go ‘there there’ as he curls into an armadillo ball & shivers for half an hour at least once a day, that’s litchrelly it” type of stuff like. are these the conclusions here lmao

naturally what with like the huge focus on connor / him Living in many explorations out here it’s like. good for him but my god lmfao sure can be pertinent to “why are we treating jared’s character like this even if “””””sympathetic””””” towards him” when they’re so often juxtaposed and like. we barely know who connor is so a shit ton of room for interpretation but i hardly think he’s things like the “i need to keep my friend stoned 24/7 otherwise he kills people” or that he’s Just Misunderstood(tm) & sure he’s this mysterious grumpy loner but Actually that’s b/c he’s the Visionary out here who’s keeping it real & doesn’t give a fuck in a righteous way that’s so perfectly helpful to say, evan, wherein he can be like “oh it was a misunderstanding & you’ve been nice to me for two days? i’ll keep jared from shoving you over & taking your lunch money forever” where suddenly connor’s whole like. outward aggression defense mechanism is now like “well if he had a weed & evan’s there to calm him down he can just be Firm & Insistent & Truth Telling actually, & jared will either fuck off forever b/c he Doesn’t Deserve Evan or else will go ‘damn connor’s right i guess :/ sowwy’” like. this is useless lmao

& i mean i’m mostly [shruggg] towards connor’s character in general personally but it sure seems like, as with All the teens here, it’s a shame to go like oh yeah you gotta tamp down his Issues / make them something else & then also determine that One nice friendship or soulmate romance with a nice boy who he can channel all his angry energy into Protecting in a beautiful soft/edgy(tm) dynamic? well that’s what can fix him.......like oh you gotta go ahead and Tone Connor Down to explore what-ifs about him not dying, & he has to have found his high school soulmate also. like yeah sure it’s a way more daunting task that ppl might not exactly feel they can explore like “how could canon connor start having a better time & more of a handle on things” but that’s....allegedly what everyone’s exploring anyways lol, so. anyways to bring it back to jared specifically & how it’s like “time to juxtapose him with connor” it’s also Something if/when jared’s the one who’s now like seen as Blatantly Out Of Line all the time whereas connor, by contrast, is like oh actually i’m minding my own business at least & not lashing out ever especially in loud / violent ways as canon demonstrates has Been a pattern, i’m chill now & stoned so i won’t kill, & that’s upping everyone’s (evan’s) standards so any & everyone can be like “damn jared, constantly being an asshole much” & jared can be like =( how do i get your approval............which is also funny re: any characters who just sagely point out jared as being Too Mean when like. do you think any of these people are even all gonna just Say That even if they think it. are characters now just gonna go around declaring to each other what their problem is, as they so totally do in canon. and do we think that having some hypothetical Problem declared to them by some peer is gonna make anyone go “oh they’re just so right, i guess.” like if we have a notion that jared going “stop throwing printers” wouldn’t be that constructive for connor, don’t think connor being like “you are coming across rudely” (actually that would be more measured & potentially helpful lol) “stop being an asshole to me on purpose obv” (which is not necessarily obv, from jared’s theoretical perspective) may not be likewise constructive re: jared never coming across as rude/hostile again. to take it back to the top like connor is more prone to Creating confrontations due to wrongly interpreting other’s perspectives/motivations, & to react to it super defensively & with like, the threat of / displays of physical violence, vs that jared as i argue & am right about is the most avoidant of confrontation in the first place, even with evan who definitely isn’t throwing shit at him with that broken arm, and jared Specifically remembers things like connor throwing printers as reasons evan should be worried about what connor might get up to. and even if jared wasn’t worried abt the tendency towards violent outbursts from a specific guy, i don’t think that jared being booed & pelted with tomatoes enough is really what he’d need to realize he has to be “nicer” either

like first of all it’s not established that jared Doesn’t expect shit he says to be taken as Just Jokes at least sometimes, as he claims to connor, like, handier for diluting them to “evan’s bully / evil bf” to “evan’s champion / soulmate” if jared’s just lying & Was after connor’s lunch money &/or to crush his soul but like. again that’s just one interpretation, & a convenient one, & how far is jared getting menacing everyone when he starts trying to pull back / recover the exchange simply b/c connor is going :l about it, and only gets more like “uh....fuck you” to bail on the exchange entirely rather than idk that apparently being his goal From The Start, so kind of implies he didn’t expect to get just this strong negative reaction in the first place....second of all, looking at this same [one canon interaction observed between jared & connor] i’m like why’s there this like fanon thing also where it’s not quite “connor either pwns jared away forever or at least does it so hard he Repents & Reforms to become worthy enough" but the bit of like, oh see the Main Problem of jared & connor's dynamic would be that they’d always be arguing / bickering, probably too much in earnest / too insultingly or whatever.....like if they were Both bickering regularly that’d probably be the Conclusion of like “actually we understand each other better / are secure in this dynamic” b/c jared’s gonna want to avoid provoking connor if that’s what Actually keeps happening b/c he comes off as rude & connor’s own issues exacerbate that, & other side of the coin being that connor can only keep blowing up at jared if he both interprets everything jared does w/as much hostility/antagonism read into jared’s intentions as possible & reacts to this by you know, blowing up or at least being threatening when jared knows he can & does do the [throw printer] types of reactions. whereas if jared can needle him on purpose b/c he knows that Won’t happen And connor can know the needling is a version of connecting with him / a friendly gesture actually, then that kind of exchange would be like, well that’s great then, vs like oh we need evan the mediator / peacekeeper to be like “noooo the violence, stop you guys ;m;” or what have you lmao

which you know. part of it can be And Is [jared doesn’t know how he’s coming across / doesn’t know that some element of “i am rude on purpose” might be a bigger deal to someone else than he means/expects], but none of that’s unilateral, nobody knows how they’re coming across exactly b/c a) who can, ever, & in all cases and b) they’re all like seventeen & struggling & the fact that their own survival is taking up so much priority / seems to require these defensive strategies is kind of like, impeding their Flexibility re: dropping some of that defensiveness when they feel they need it as much or more than ever....like as though i’m ever gonna be like “yeah the only thing that’s happening here, or the only thing that Matters about it, is that jared’s misinterpreting how his communication / connection efforts are coming across, and it Does Not Matter whether other people are in turn Misunderstanding jared / failing to communicate with Him on His Terms at all, All that matters is that jared learn how to immediately & superficially & with universal success Come Across As Nice” like hello i’m autistic are you kidding lmfao. sure have jared navigating these specific relationships he has, like that connor as an individual he knows & ever interacts with may be Especially inflexible with joshing, or be made aware of xyz factors he hasn’t learned abt already b/c again they’re all like seventeen & figuring it out re each other & themselves & everyone in general, but are you kidding if like jared just has to be put up on a podium & booed & roasted by everyone he encounters b/c they think he’s Being Too Rude, & this experience is what’s necessary to teach him to act right & finally deserve relationships / be liked by anyone. no lmao....and turn to canon where we Know evan understands what jared’s Really communicating / what his actual motivations are beyond what jared’s theoretically saying, even as jared is getting more outright antagonistic on purpose over act two and evan’s like “eh i know he wants to provoke me into an exchange abt something else but also i’m avoiding everything rn so i’ll ignore that too”....like obviously None of their approaches are like the key to their success lol but it cannot be unilateral, these interactions / dynamics / relationships can’t be unilateral.....at least not if you’re intending for these things to be like theoretically constructive / helpful for everyone involved lol. and jared like has his own tendency to just get more upset & run away lol like he would not stick around and marinate in things like “oh evan should just bravely insult him a few times” or “or connor does that” like it’s not a case of like oh, see, if you just strip jared of his bravado enough times you will chasten him into being nicer. like, that’s his defense strategy lol he’ll be freaked out & flee the situation, he wants positive attention like anyone else, he’s not just like, fueled by [say a meme] or Only saying rude shit “unfiltered” like, yes he could exercise some more discretion based on Having More Information / Knowledge he doesn’t now, but he’s trying to be perceived as funny more than trying to wrest the lunch money away from everyone (or Only b/c he’s covering up a crush / covering up not being straight either lol, see also the “really, is the only way you can conceive to interpret jared’s [discussing that shit can be gay] is ‘ah, homophobia’” post lol) like, cue the point of like Society If Evan Just Earnestly Laughed At Something Jared Said Ever llsdfj or you know, simply see Sincerely, Me, where jared’s just trying to get more attention from evan & is having a great time / being more straightforwardly cooperative once he does

and like another sidenote re: the fleeing is just like. idk funny if the idea re: a theoretical jared & connor dynamic is that any Impasse would be because of some change jared has to make whereas it’s like. probably neither of them would exactly seek each other out but jared is Just Some Asshole to connor whereas connor is Guy I Know Is Especially Volatile & Will Throw A Printer & I Hate Confrontation More Than Any Character We See to jared, like, think jared would bail / refuse to interact w/connor more so than the other way around, while connor’s out there thinking that evan is also Just Some Asshole but willing to put himself out there like hey well sorry about that anyways. and like in all of this, the whole [this character has a tendency to get violently angry] factor is one that’s gonna become most urgent if an issue arises that might make it relevant. not like people Necessarily go “wow zoe’s Mean i guess” b/c she doesn’t wanna deal with connor much at all. i mean, they do, i know they do lol. but.

anyways lot of addressing this juxtaposition here lol but yeah it’s like. “funny” when an idea is like oh jared just needs to have people consistently Reject & possibly punish his Being Mean & then he’ll have to choose to Be Nice. like none of the characters need that approach lol, who does, ever. then there’s the fact jared’s the most nonconfrontational (& apparently that means he thinks he’s being so nice....lol. it also does not mean that, actually, same as it doesn’t mean that for evan) & it’s Something to presume that like oh some harsh truth intervention Confrontation would really be the guidance he needs. & further Something to decide connor is like the mvp of realness around here to allow evan to be Soft & call jared’s rudeness bluff, but when connor does Blunt Honesty Call It Like I See It it’s good actually, or at least deserved. anyhow clearly this is “jared is a Relevant Connection with a peer who knows & loves him that evan could start actively pursuing / discovering along with jared if he chose to do so after realizing the potential there, & this is thematically relevant so Why evan just has to connect with his mom & be abstractly dateable to his ex & we call it a day, i don’t know” Central & “connor is a deh character to me, certainly” lol but like the Concept of jared & connor having a more successful dynamic would certainly be Fraught in a potentially compelling way but that’s b/c they’d Both have the hardest time getting along, between jared’s “tends to say things that come across ruder / harsher than he intends” and connor’s “tends to interpret things ruder / more hostile than intended” clashing & that jared will then bail entirely over confrontation vs connor escalating it, potentially into violent behavior....like they would both have Needed to get more of a handle on their own things / have more options/flexibility they reliably partake in &/or specifically better understand how the other operates to feel they have more control over their interactions, which can be of potential interest/relevance certainly when it’s like “hm how could these characters connect constructively w/each other” exploration time but. instead the notion that evan just Hasn’t told jared He’s Rude b/c evan is himself simply Too Nice (he’s not) or Too Nonconfrontational (maybe, and there’s sure too much of that Between the both of them rn, but jared’s still the More nonconfrontational one) but if connor steps onto the scene he can be tough & reveal The Truth that jared is simply too rude & jared Must go “smh :/ ya got me i guess” & become worthy or die

anyways it all gets away from me as zillion word text posts do but it’s like. boy i love when it feels like solid characterization with any depth is happening and when people get that jared and Anyone in theory, certainly him and evan, can one on one learn to connect more successfully w/each other, and it’s not going to be unilateral / where one person has to admit they were entirely in the wrong or that they may as well take on all the wrongness / mistakes / failures between them to keep it simple. like we don’t need to keep it That simple, which feels like enough of a tl;dr / conclusion here lmao

#connor coming up a lot lol but sort of abstractly. & to go ''why would he be like this / why would material ft him like this work''#i don't think i Know what his character would be like b/c who does for sure b/c that's part of the point of what we get in canon but #i can go ''well it wouldn't go like this'' lmao. why should it #always going like Lmao at the idea of connor as like well he can get a bit grumpy / sulky but then if you have a nice chat with him #he will reliably cheer up; this being if you're evan of course (nvm that alana would get along w/him most easily i'm sure & has apparently #most of an actual positive history there even if she Is mostly just acquaintances w/everyone) like. that's more jared you realize lol #he's getting irritable & resentful throughout act two but damn if he isn't gonna still try to invite evan to hang out one day please....#deh #a categorial / organizational tag for one's own references but it occurs to me there's the broader tag ppl use i guess...#not like that's a problem necessarily lol like. any and all these scrolls nailed to the doors #and really in the spirit of things:#kleinsen #it's pretty much the inherent framework any & all my posts mentioning jared will be in...

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