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queering-ecology · 2 months

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LGBTQ America: A Theme Study of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender and Queer History—chapter 09. Sexual and Gender Diversity in Native America and the Pacific Islands by Will Roscoe. part 2

Two Spirits in Native Tradition: Roles, Genders, Identities and Diversity cont.

In the twentieth century, ‘berdache’ “became the standard anthropological term for alternative gender roles among Native Americans. By the 1980’s, however, there was call for a change among scholars. In 1990, at a gathering of Native American and First Nations people, the term ‘two-spirit(ed)’ was coined. “Today, the term is used to refer to “both male-bodied and female-bodied native people who mix, cross, or combine the standard roles of men and women” (09-5).

The author acknowledges in a footnote that the term has its limitations (translation errors, and the fact that many tribes believe that all of us have the essence/spirit of male and female in us). But none of his reasons for these limitations match with my main critique both with the term two-spirit but mostly with the way it is often spoken of. Even within the acknowledgement of individuals who do not conform 100% to the Western concept of man or woman, the people are still fit into a binary. They are referred to as ‘male bodied’ and ‘female bodied’ two-spirited people.

To me, this often feels like an easy way for people to ‘short cut’ their understanding of native genders—as soon as they understand the way someone is sexed, they can still fit that person into a category, even if those categories are imperfect. Intersexuality is a ghost when topics of sex and gender arise. More and more, we understand that sex is not immutable, it is yet another social construction—the process of someone developing in utero and then continuing to grow and change in their lifetime is so complex that very often people do not fit neatly into either the distinct category of male or female.

(See the link below for a better image of this)

Whether that is their very chromosomes, hormones, secondary or primary sex characteristics—all these things and more combine to create a person. A person whose very sex is unique to them, as their gender is unique to them. Who knows the true reality of the two-spirit’s biological sex? No one—unless they are given extensive expensive testing that has only recently become available.

The truth is that intersexuality is natural and is common in humans, even in the Western world with its biopolitical control and its dualisms. The reason two-spirit people were and are held so special is because they do not fit neatly into these categories. To me it feels a kind of modern colonial erasure to try and sex the bodies of people who often very clearly and blatantly blurred all barriers. It feels as if it misses the entire point of the term two-spirit, as least as I understand it. But, I have not read much into what other two-spirits (especially elders) think about this concept. “Two-spirit males have been documented in at least 155 tribes; in about a third of these a recognized status for females who adopted a masculine lifestyle existed as well”. (09-6) But as Roscue later adds, “absence of evidence cannot be taken as evidence of absence” (09-8).

In general, the lives of “native women have been overlooked […] and obscured by Euro-American sexual and racial stereotypes. Taking a broader view reveals that women throughout North American and the Pacific Islands often engaged in male pursuits, from hunting to warfare and tribal leadership, without necessarily acquiring a different gender identity” (09-8). Roscoe then offers some examples of Indigenous women being awesome. The author then lists examples of traditional terms for two-spirited people across various tribes and explains that many of them cannot be literally translated into gender binary terms like ‘man-woman’. “These terms have lead anthropologists, historians, and archaeologists to describe two-spirit roles as alternative or multiple genders” (09-6). In fact, “many native societies are capable of accommodating three, four, and possibly more genders, or having a gender system characterized by fluidity, transformation, and individual variation” (09-7).

The author discusses how two-spirit children were identified often as youth by the certain type of activities they liked to participate in. Oftentimes ceremonies ‘marked’ people with two-spirit status. He then goes on to discuss the other ways two-spirits lived in society. “In many instances, male and female two spirits were medicine people, healers, shamans, and ceremonial leaders” (09-8). Certain ceremonial functions were specific to two-spirits and they were often seen to hold great power (09-8). “Because two-spirits occupied a distinct gender status, their relationships were not viewed as being same-sex” (09-9). !!!! This feels so important for some reason!!

Sexual and Gender Diversity in Native Hawai’i

This section further emphases that indigenous peoples have had genders that go beyond male or female, man or woman and also that colonial violence is a tragedy. While I respect and love the people of Hawai’i and their struggles are so, so similar to Native Americans, I believe that the vast majority of Native Hawaiians do NOT consider themselves Native American (or American Indian or even just American) so my covering on this topic will be limited.

Roscoe speaks about the mahu stones that have extraordinarily sacred significance—these stones have a powerful history and connection to the mahu people (their gender diverse term). (This summary is literally so terrible and not at all a true representative of how important and beautiful this topic is, I apologize). Like the people, the stones faced colonization and were figuratively and then literally buried—“in the 1920s they were buried beneath a bowling alley” (09-15). They have since been reclaimed and are now being properly respected but, for the native peoples, “the Land inheres as sacred—beyond human perception and conception, beyond our capacities for belief and imagination—in and of itself” (09-15) and “If there were no humans on earth, they would still be sacred” (09-15). The stone’s spiritual power ‘has never been interrupted’ (09-15).

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aikoiya · 2 years

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This is ridiculous! I've been seeing a lot of librals saying that the idea of there only being 2 sexes, man & woman, is a western colonial concept & I'm just like, "Do you have any idea what you're saying?"

The idea of 2 sexes has existed for far longer than colonialism. It's literally in the Bible, which according to the History Channel "the original texts are believed to date back to around 120 A.D. The Book of Judas was found in Egypt in the 1970s," while Big Think says it's "about 3400 years old."

As much as people like to relate Christianity & the Bible to caucasians & the west, the reality is that Christianity & it's sister religions, Judaism & Islamism, all originated in the Middle East. They're called the Abrahamic religions & they're called that because they all split off from the same monotheistic belief system; a.k.a. Judaism. It isn't even just the Middle East, the entire LGBTQ movement is actually the one that's a western concept.

Now, I understand that a lot of Jewish people follow the Talmud for their daily lives & it says that there are 6-8 sexes, but as 1/4 Jewish myself, I don't trust the interprative works of a Babylonian scholar over the closest thing we have to th he word of the Almighty. If I were to choose a Jewish text to follow, it'd be the Torah itself. Yes, the Talmud attempts to interpret the Torah, but honestly, I trust God's actual word far more than I will ever trust some scholar's interpretation of it because it's liable to be affected by personal bias. Not to mention, the laws given in the Talmud were put there by Rabbis, not God's word. Rabbis are just people like everyone else & can therefore make mistakes. There are no mistakes with God.

Also, the Torah contains the first 5 books of the Bible, which were written by Moses, who was following God's word. Making it the closest thing to literally speaking with God ourselves. Meanwhile, the Talmud directly contadicts a few things in the Torah, meaning those things can't be trusted. One such thing is the myth of 6-8 sexes. The Book of Genesis said that "God created man in his image, in the image of God He created him, male and female He created them.” He did not create androgynos, tumtum, aylonit hamah, aylonit adam, saris hamah, or saris adam. The ones who recognize multiple sexes are the Rabbis, not the Torah &, therefore, not God.

But that's just my own personal biased opinion.

However, at the same time, the Talmud can be used to determine that the Jewish people have believed in 6-8 genders for a very long time, which is what this conversation is about to begin with. So, despite my reticence, I'll make allowences for that. It still doesn't invalidate the fact that the Christian people who split off from the Jewish faith believed in a gender binary, which is my argument. Yes, Judaism is older than Christianity, but that's not the point. The point is proving that the belief in 2 sexes, itself, has existed since long before colonialism & that it didn't manifest in the west.

As for intersex, that's an exception, not the rule. And even they have a single, defined sex based on which is more prevalent in the body & which set of genitals are viable, because only one or the other can be fertile.

Now, even if you don't believe in the Bible or its ideals, the important thing here is the timeline & place of origin. The Bible originates from the Middle East (again, can't stress that part enough) far before colonialism. So, no, the concept of there only being 2 sexes is not a construct of western colonialism, nor is being straight something cooked up by white men to 'oppress' people who don't 'fit their narrative.' Because heterosexuality is something that's existed since humanity's foundation or at least since more than 3000 years ago because it's, again, mentioned as being the ideal in the Bible which is theorized to be over 3000 years old & the people who wrote the Bible were not white, say it with me, "NOT WHITE," they were Middle Eastern.

If you want me to use a different example to get my point across, how about China? While I don't like a lot of what they're doing these days, ancient China has a very clear sexual binary. Just look at their philosophies. Especially the concept of yin & yang. EVERYTHING is separated into terms of male & female & Chinese culture is even older than the Bible. It's at least 6000 years old, not to mention an eastern culture. Therefore, my original argument still stands.

Not to mention, sure, people who identify as a sex other than what they were born as have, possibly, existed in pretty much every society since the beginning, but the fact of the matter is that the trans community only makes up 1% of the population & almost all of the rest since the beginning agree that there are only 2 sexes & that they simply could not give a shit.

As Matt Walsh pointed out once, a kitten is thought to only have one head. However, just recently, a kitten was born with 2 heads. Does that mean we should redefine our concept of kittens to suggest that they may have multiple heads simply because of this singular fluke of nature?

The thing is, why is it that we must change the definitions of words to conform to 1% of people? Why change literally everything we know about biology & language in order to coddle the exception? Yes, you're a minority. Yes, your community has suffered, but I refuse to treat you any different than I would anyone else. If you're upset with me not putting you on a pedistal & treating you like glass, then congradulations, you're not looking for equality or respect. You're looking for preference, special treatment, & superiority, which you will not find from me.

You think that includes always getting your 'preferred pronouns' correct even if I don't know them & you not only look a certain gender or sex, but you also wear clothes of that sex. It's called a mistake & if you're too butthurt & sensitive &, honestly, insecure about yourself & your decisions to be able to let such things slide, then maybe the intolerant one here is you.

In fact, these days, straights & especially caucasians are becoming some of the most discriminated against people on Earth just because we're the majority. Newsflash! Discrimination is still discrimination regardless of who it's directed at!

Another thing, why do people get so caught up in pronouns? If gender is a 'social construct of oppression' then why does it matter what someone calls you?

#anti-wokeism #facts #logic #history #reality #biology #Youtube

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chaos-in-one · 1 year

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tbh also saying as another trans native system.. i’m really uncomfortable with people comparing being a system to gender because that completely erases the colonial violence against genders that fall out of the white western binary. like there has been actual, genuine attempted genocide against the beautiful and diverse indigenous genders from all sorts of cultures all over the world and transmedicalism inherently upholds that because these gender identities aren’t rooted in a disorder, they’re cultural, and it’s a white concept that diverse gender identities are inherently disordered. and if any white person tries to argue that this history is in any way comparable to keeping a mental illness medicalized i might finally snap

^^^^ THIS

#ask #asks #syscourse

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burning-bubble-tea · 5 days

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The comments on an Israel Palestine video passed the vibe check so hard I’m so happy.

The video was trying to “critique” the one state solution with a multicultural angle to avoid Palestine becoming an ethnostate of any kind and this persons rebuttal was that… Jewish people must have an ethnostate and that if the one state was implemented there would be more Palestinians than Jewish people because of all the refugees that would return to Palestine.

Zionist propaganda failed and I’m so happy, the comments were full of people being like, you could have said the same thing about South Africa apartheid that white people needed a place away from all the dangerous black people like what the hell, this Zionist needs to do some serious self reflection.

Like we see this replacement therapy bullshit everywhere. Oh the Asians are coming and they’re going to outnumber us and steal our jobs and then our precious white supremacy will be over!

Well I live in an area with majority Asian and guess what? White supremacy is still alive and well. Just because they’re are more of a people doesn’t mean that race becomes the superior race.

Because the concept of race was thought up by colonizers!! We don’t have to think hierarchically. We can unlearn it to the best of our abilities!!

People fear affirmative action and diversity because it feels like power is being taken away and given to the other but no, it’s being redistributed!!!

Now can the redistribution go wrong? Totally!! We’re all fucking human and yes, we can be really fucking mean to people because they’re white!! Now some social justice scholars think you can be racist to white people others say no, I can see where scholars who think white peoples can experience racism are onto something but also I hesitate to call it racism per se in the sense that I do believe white people are also oppressed because we all suffer under colonial capitalism. But also intersectionality I feel correctly points out how there are different flavours of bad that can layer on top of each other to make a gross oppression cake.

Trans black women often have to eat a transphobic, racist and misogynistic cake because they embody those positionalities.

But also a cis white guy also suffers under that same cake but it’s bad in a different way.

Cis people face transphobia in the sense that if they ever slightly veer off of rigid binary gender norms they can also face harassment, to gain white privilege white people (and those who try to ascribe to whiteness via internalized racism) literally become cruel people and when you hurt others you hurt yourself. You become heartless and inhumane if you try and ascribe yourself with white supremacy. Men struggle under patriarchy in the sense that patriarchy puts men on top sure but also the hierarchy is harmful as they are pitted against other men and are barred from emotional connection as western ideas of hegemonic masculinity demands them to fulfill impossible standards and failing to meet those standards is met with ridicule.

My oppression is your oppression is our oppression. We are not free until we all are.

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significantouther · 5 months

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About classifications such as neutral being used universally as abinary. Etymologically neu means neither, and utrum (tral) means either, grammatically denominating common gender in lexemes.

So I believe it's justified at least to group unaligned with neutral and nonbinary. Neutrois used to mean nonbinary and nonbinary used to be a nongender (negation of binary).

I tend to be generalist about my gender so I believe it's all intertwined.

I also experience an identity that's often classified as simply transfem third gender by minimalists. And there's an overlap in certain cultures that orientation nonconforming people were also grouped with third sexes, just because they deviated from norms and had lexemes to describe such experiences way before homosexual and transgender were coined.

So it's binaristic/dualistic not just genderly but also orientationally. It enforces a currently false rigidity in concepts.

But at the same time I feel the need to describe a neutral aliagender (or a singular/monogender/single/monolithic nonbinariness) that isn't otheringly

Words, specially such that are complex as gender words, are more than their etymology, but "neutrum" is actually the Latin term for neither and it's formed by ne- (not) + utrum (whether, both, either), so basically "not either"

When I came out neutrois was one of the few terms those outside the binary had to describe our genders beyond terms relating to male or female, fem or masc, or terms like bigender, genderfluid, demigender, etc (that describe the how and not the what), but it wasn't synonymous with nonbinary

There was a clear division between androgyne (which encompassed anything in between/a mix/ a combination between male/masc and female/fem) and neutrois (which emcompassed anything unrelated to male/masc and female/fem)

Nonbinary wasn't a thing yet. Terms like genderqueer and intergender (og non-exclusive definition) were used instead

And there's an overlap in certain cultures that orientation nonconforming people were also grouped with third sexes, just because they deviated from norms and had lexemes to describe such experiences way before homosexual and transgender were coined.

Orientation and gender have always been interwined, even in western binary cultures. not queer person is fully inside the binary (although they can be aptobinary), because the binary not just legitimate maleness and femaleness, but specific types that are cis, gender conforming, perisex, allo and peri-hetero. The difference is that while western society still tried to binarise the very same people it excluded, these societies recognised and still recognise queer people as distinct social categories with different roles than pericisallohet men and woman.

(we could also discuss how gender is always cultural and how the universalisation of man and woman are also part of colonialism and binarism and that gender actually shouldn't be translated, but 99% of people aren't ready for that conversation)

Colonialism not only affected gender expressions, but also orientations that diverged from western binary ideas, and "third gender" was an easy way to clasify all these divergent identities, not only to easily study them, but also to easily and legally erase and persecute them.

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writingwithcolor · 3 years

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hi! I am writing something with elements based off of inuit/native canadian culture, and one of my characters is a trans woman. I was wondering how to incorporate her place in society and the way she interacts with her culture/identity( especially things like tattoos, which can have meanings related to gender--ex. signifying menstruation) without being insensitive. I want to explore different aspects and opinions, but I don't want to say something about a culture I'm not a part of. Thanks!

Trans Inuit, Incorporating Culture

Important note: Native Canadian cultures are very broad, and include way, way more peoples than just the Inuit. Canada’s borders are well below the Inuit’s ranges, and calling it “Native Canadian” culture is just as unspecific as “Native American” culture. Remember to pick a nation or WWC will be hard pressed to help you.

Not Inuit, ten buckets of salt for this, Inuit followers feel free to correct me.

My first suggestion is to begin decolonizing your concept of gender and to imagine a society where assigned gender at birth is less of a thing, if it’s a thing at all. Would trans women even exist in this world, or would they have no assigned gender at birth to be “trans” from? Would children be able to self identify in toddlerhood, when most children develop a concept of gender? Would they use the label for other cultures who do have a more binary gender system? How many genders are there? What sort of privileges and rights would they have if colonialism wasn’t forcing a gender binary to exert social control over the people?

Indigenous cultures are a lot less biologically essentialist than colonizers would have you believe. A lot of Indigenous languages don’t have gendered pronouns, and a lot of Indigenous populations have some sort of two-spirit identity (or multiple 2S identities), including Inuit people. Try to find Inuit stories centred around third gender identities and see what happens.

That being said, two spirit trans people exist! It is very much a common thing for Indigenous people to use Western labels for any reason they want (from working in a colonial society to just preferring it), and it could very well be a thing in your culture as well. It’s up to you to decide that, just be mindful that despite a lot of biological and historical revisionism that says the past was binary based on assumed gender at birth, Indigenous peoples very much were not that. We had allowances for the wide variety of who people were.

Opening this to Inuit followers: how would a not-cis (by western standards) person be treated in a society without colonialism? What sort of position would they hold?

~Mod Lesya

#pissywillow #Canada #inuit #two spirit #transgender #lgbtqia #worldbuilding #asks

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justmenoworries · 3 years

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Not Up For Interpretation - An Essay On Nonbinary - Erasure

(Trigger Warning: Misgendering, Transphobia, Nonbinary-phobia)

If you’ve been following me for a while, you probably know this was a long time coming. I’ve made several posts about my frustrations concerning this topic and how much it hurt me just how socially accepted erasing an entire identity still is. While representation marches on and things have become better for nonbinary people as a whole, we still battle with a lot of prejudice - both intentional and unintentional.

In this essay, I want to discuss just how our identities are being erased almost daily, why that is harmful and hurtful and what we all can do to change that.

Chapters:

What does Non-binary mean?

Nonbinary- representation in media

So what’s the problem?

How do we fix it?

1. What Does Non-binary Mean?

Non-binary is actually an umbrella term. It includes pretty much every gender-identity that’s neither one or the other so to speak, for example, agender.

Agender means feeling detachment from the gender spectrum in general. If you’re agender, you most likely feel a distance to the concept of gender as a whole, that it doesn’t define you as a person.

There are many identities that classify under non-binary: There’s gender-fluid (you feel you have a gender, but it’s not one gender specifically and can change), demi-gender (identifying as a gender partially, but not completely) and many others.

Sometimes, multiple non-binary identities can mix and match.

Most non-binary people use they/them pronouns, but like with so many things, it varies.

Some nonbinary-people (like me) go by two pairs of pronouns. I go by both she/her and they/them, because it’s what feels most comfortable at the moment. But who knows, maybe in the future I’ll switch to they/them exclusively or expand to he/him.

There is no one defining non-binary experience. Nb-people are just as varied and different as binary people, who go by one specific gender.

There are non-binary people who choose to go solely by she/her or he/him and that’s okay too. It doesn’t make them any more or less non-binary and their identity is still valid.

If your head’s buzzing a bit by now: That’s okay. It’s a complicated topic and no one expects you to understand all of it in one chapter of one essay.

Just know this: If a person identifies as non-binary, you should respect their decision and use the pronouns they go with.

It’s extremely hurtful to refer to someone who already told you that they use they/them pronouns with she/her or he/him, or use they/them to refer to a person who uses she/her.

Think about it like using a trans-person’s deadname: It’s rude, it’s harmful and it shows complete disrespect for the person.

Non-binary people have existed for a very long time. The concept isn’t new. The idea that there are only two genders, with every other identity being an aberration to the norm, is largely a western idea, spread through colonialism.

The Native American people use “Two-Spirit” to describe someone who identifies neither as a man nor a woman. The term itself is relatively new, but the concept of a third gender is deeply rooted in many Native American cultures.

(Author’s Note: If you are not Native American, please do not use it. That’s cultural appropriation.)

In India, the existence of a third gender has always been acknowledged and there are many terms specifically for people who don’t identify with the gender that was assigned to them at birth.

If you’re interested in learning more about non-binary history and non-binary identities around the world, I’d recommend visiting these websites:

https://nonbinary.wiki/wiki/History_of_nonbinary_gender

https://nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Gender-variant_identities_worldwide

https://thetempest.co/2020/02/01/history/the-history-of-nonbinary-genders-is-longer-than-you-think/

https://www.teenvogue.com/story/gender-variance-around-the-world

Also, maybe consider giving this book a try:

Nonbinary Gender Identities: History, Culture, Resources by Charlie Mcnabb

2. Non-binary Representation In Media

The representation of non-binary people in mainstream media hasn’t been... great, to put it mildly.

Representation, as we all know, is important.

Not only does it give minorities a chance to see themselves in media and feel heard and acknowledged. It also normalizes them.

For example, seeing a black Disney-princess was a huge deal for many black little girls, because they could finally say there was someone there who looked like them. They could see that being white wasn’t a necessity to be a Disney princess.

Seeing a canonically LGBT+ character in a children’s show teaches kids that love is love, no matter what gender you’re attracted to. At the same time, older LGBT+ viewers will see themselves validated and heard in a movie that features on-screen LGBT+ heroes.

There’s been some huge steps in the right direction in the last few years representation-wise.

Not only do we have more LGBT+ protagonists and characters in general, we’ve also begun to question and call out harmful or bigoted portrayals of the community in media, such as “Bury Your Gays” or the “Depraved Homosexual”.

With that being said: Let’s take a look at how Non-binary representation holds up in comparison, shall we?

This is Double Trouble, from the children’s show “She-Ra And The Princesses Of Power”.

They identify as non-binary and use they/them pronouns. They’re also a slimy, duplicitous lizard-person who can change their shape at will.

Um, yeah.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Did I mention they’re also the only non-binary character in the entire show? And that they’re working with a genocidal dictator in most of the episodes they’re in?

Yikes.

Let’s look at another example.

These three (in order of appearance) are Stevonnie, Smoky Quartz and Shep. Three characters appearing in the kid’s show “Steven Universe” and it’s epilogue series “Steven Universe: Future”.

All of them identify as non-binary and use they/them as pronouns.

Stevonnie and Smoky Quartz are the result of a boy and a girl being fused together through weird alien magic.

Shep is a regular human, but they only appeared in one episode. In an epilogue series that only hardcore fans actually watched.

Well, I mean...

One out of three isn’t that bad, right?

Maybe we should pick an example from a series for older viewers.

Say hello to Doppelganger, a non-binary superhuman who goes by they/them, from the Amazon-series “The Boys”.

They’re working for a corrupt superhero-agency and use their power of shape-shifting to trick people who pose a threat to said agency into having sex with them. And then blackmail those people with footage of said sex.

....

Do I even need to say it?

If you’ve paid attention during the listing of these examples, you might have noticed a theme.

Namely that characters canonically identifying as non-binary are either

supernatural in some way, shape or form,

barely have a presence in the piece of media they’re in,

both.

Blink-and-you-miss-it-manner of representation aside, the majority of these characters fall squarely under what we call “Othering”.

“Othering” describes the practice of portraying minorities as supernatural creatures or otherwise inhuman. Or to say it bluntly: As “The Other”.

“Othering” is a pretty heinous method. Not only does it portray minorities as inherently abnormal and “different in a bad way”. It also goes directly against what representation is actually for: Normalizing.

As a general rule of thumb: If your piece of media has humans in it, but the only representation of non-white, non-straight people are explicitly inhuman... yeah, that’s bad.

So is there absolutely no positive representation for us out there?

Not quite.

As rare as human non-binary characters in media are to find, they do exist.

Here we have Bloodhound! A non-binary human hunter who uses they/them pronouns, from the game “Apex Legends”.

It’s been confirmed by the devs and the voice actress that they’re non-binary.

Nice!

These are Frisk (bottom) and Chara (top) from the game “Undertale”. While their exact gender identity hasn’t been disclosed, they both canonically use they/them pronouns, so it’s somewhere on the non-binary spectrum.

Two human children who act as the protagonist (Frisk) and antagonist (Chara), depending on how you play the game. (Interpretations vary on the antagonist/protagonist-thing, to say the least.)

Cool!

......

And, yep, that’s it.

As my little demonstration here showed, non-binary representation in media is rare. Good non-binary representation is even rarer.

Which is why those small examples of genuinely good representation are so important to the Non-binary community!

It’s hard enough to have to prove you exist. It’s even harder to prove your existence is not abnormal or unnatural.

If you’d like to further educate yourself on representation, it’s impact on society and why it matters, perhaps take a second to read through these articles:

https://www.criticalhit.net/opinion/representation-media-matters/

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/arts/why-on-screen-representation-matters-according-to-these-teens

https://jperkel.github.io/sciwridiversity2020/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2019/05/22/why-is-equal-representation-in-media-important/?sh=25f2ccc92a84

https://www.theodysseyonline.com/why-representation-the-media-matters

3. So What’s The Problem?

The problem, as is the case with so many things in the world, is prejudice.

Actually, that’s not true.

There’s not a problem, there are multiple problems. And their names are prejudice, ignorance and bigotry.

Remember how I said human non-binary representation is rare?

Yeah, very often media-fans don’t help.

Let’s take for example, the aforementioned Frisk and Chara from “Undertale”.

Despite the game explicitly using they/them to refer to both characters multiple times, the majority of players somehow got it into their heads that Frisk’s and Chara’s gender was “up for interpretation”.

There is a huge amount of fan art straight-up misgendering both characters and portraying them as binary and using only he/him or she/her pronouns.

The most egregious examples are two massively popular fan-animated web shows: “Glitchtale”, by Camila Cuevas and “Underverse” by Jael Peñaloza.

Both series are very beloved by the Undertale-fanbase and even outside of it. Meaning for many people, those two shows might be their first introduction to “Undertale” and it’s two non-binary human characters.

Take a wild guess what both Camila and Jael did with Frisk and Chara.

Underverse, X-Tale IV:

(Transcript: “Frisk lied to me in the worst possible way... I... I will never forgive him.”)

Underverse, X-Tale V:

(Transcript: “I-It’s Chara... and it’s a BOY.”)

Glitchtale, My Promise:

(Transcript: (Referring to Frisk) “I’m not scared of an angry boy anymore.”)

Glitchtale, Game Over Part 1:

(Transcript: (Referring to Chara) “It’s ok little boy.”)

This... this isn’t okay.

Not only do both of these pieces of fan-art misgender two non-binary characters, the creators knew beforehand that Frisk and Chara use they/them-pronouns, but made the conscious choice to ignore that.

To be fair, in a video discussing “Underverse”, Jael said that only X-Tale Frisk and Chara, the characters you see in the Underverse-examples above, are male, while the characters Frisk and Chara from the main game remained non-binary and used they/them (time-stamp 10:34).

Still, that doesn’t erase the fact that Jael made up alternate versions of two non-binary characters specifically to turn them male. Or that, while addressing the issue, Jael was incredibly dismissive and even mocked the people who felt hurt by her turning two non-binary characters male. Jael also went on to make a fairly non-binary-phobic joke in the video, in which she equated gender identities beyond male and female to identifying as an object.

Jael (translated): “I don’t care if people say the original Frisk and Chara are male, female, helicopters, chairs, dogs or cats, buildings, clouds...”

That’s actually a very common joke among transphobes, if not to say the transphobe-joke:

“Oh, you identify as X? Well then I identify as an attack helicopter!”

If you’re trans, chances are you’ve heard this one, or a variation of it, a million times before.

I certainly have.

I didn’t laugh then and I’m not laughing now.

(Author’s note: I might be angry at both of them for what they did, but I do not, under any circumstances, support the harassment of creators. If you’re thinking about sending either Jael or Camila hate-mail - don’t. It won’t help.)

Jael’s reaction is sadly common in the Undertale fandom. Anyone speaking up against Chara’s and Frisk’s identity being erased is immediately bludgeoned with the “up for interpretation”-argument, despite that not once being the case in the game.

And even with people who do it right and portray Frisk and Chara as they/them, you’ll have dozens of commenters swarming the work with sentences among the lines of “Oh but I think Frisk is a boy/girl! And Chara is a girl/boy!”

By the way, this kind of thing only happens to Frisk and Chara.

Every other character in “Undertale” is referred to and portrayed with their proper pronouns of she/her or he/him.

But not the characters who go by they/them.

Their gender is “up for interpretation”.

Because obviously, their identity couldn’t possibly be canonically non-binary.

Sadly, Frisk and Chara are not alone in this.

Remember Bloodhound?

And how I said they’d been confirmed as non-binary and using they/them pronouns by both the creators and the voice actress?

It seems for many players, that too translated to “up for interpretation”.

(Transcript: “does it matter what they call him? He, her, it, they toaster oven, it doesn’t matter”)

(Transcript: “I’m like 90 % sure Bloodhound is a dude because he could just sound like a girl and by their age that I’m assuming looks around 10-12 because I’ve known many males who have sounded like a female when they were younger”)

(Transcript: “I don’t care it will always be a He. F*ck that non-binary bullsh*t.”)

(Transcript: “Bloodhound is clearly female.”)

(Transcript: “I’m not calling a video game character they/them”)

(Transcript: “exactly. The face was never fully shown neither was the gender so I’d say it means that the player is Bloodhound. So it’s your gender and you refer to “him” as yourself. It’s like a self insertion in my eyes.”)

So, let me get this straight:

If a character, even a player character, uses she/her or he/him, you can accept it, no questions asked.

But when a character uses they/them, suddenly their identity and gender are “up for interpretation”?

This attitude is also widely prevalent in real life.

Many languages only include pronouns for men and women, with no third option available. Non-binary people are often forced to make up their own terms, because their language doesn’t provide one.

Non-binary people often don’t fit within other people’s ideas of gender, so they get excluded altogether. Worse, non-binary people are often the victims of misgendering, denial of their identity or even straight-up violence when coming out.

People will often tell us that we look like a certain gender, so we should only use one set of gendered pronouns. Never mind that that’s not what we want. Never mind that that’s not who we are.

Non-binary people are also largely omitted from legal documentation and studies. We cannot identify as non-binary at our workplace, because using they/them pronouns is considered “unprofessional”. We don’t have our own bathrooms like men and women do. Our gender is seen as less valid than male and female, so even that basic thing is denied to us. I’ve had to use the women’s restroom my entire life, because if I go into a male restroom, I’ll be yelled at or made fun off or simply get told I took the wrong door. It’s extremely uncomfortable for me and I wish I didn’t have to do it.

And since non-binary people aren’t seen as “real transgender-people”, we often don’t receive the medical care we need. This often renders us unable to feel good within our bodies, because the treatment and help we get is wildly inadequate.

It’s especially horrible for intersex people (people who are born with sex characteristics that don’t fit solely into the male/female category) who are often forced to change their bodies to fit within the male/female gender binary.

And you better believe each of those problems is increased ten-fold for non-binary people of color.

We are ignored and dismissed as “confused”, because of who we are.

Representation is a way for Non-binary people to show the world they exist, that they’re here and that they too have stories to tell.

But how can we, when every character that represents us is either othered, barely there or gets taken away from us?

We are not “up for interpretation”.

Neither are the characters in media who share our identity.

And it’s time to stop pretending we ever were.

For more information about Non-Binary Erasure and how harmful it is, you can check out these articles:

https://everydayfeminism.com/2015/08/common-non-binary-erasure/

https://www.dailydot.com/irl/nonbinary-people-racism/

https://nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Nonbinary_erasure

https://traj.openlibhums.org/articles/10.16995/traj.422/

https://medium.com/an-injustice/everyday-acts-of-non-binary-erasure-49ee970654fb

https://medium.com/national-center-for-institutional-diversity/the-invisible-labor-of-liberating-non-binary-identities-in-higher-education-3f75315870ec

https://musingsofanacademicasexual.wordpress.com/2015/05/11/dear-sirmadam-a-commentary-on-non-binary-erasure/

4. How Do We Fix It?

Well, first things first: Stop acting like we don’t exist.

And kindly stop other people from doing it too.

We are a part of the LGBT+ community and we deserve to be acknowledged, no matter what our pronouns are.

Address non-binary people with the right pronouns. Don’t argue with them about their identity, don’t comment on how much you think they look like a boy or a girl. Just accept them and be respectful.

If a non-binary person tells you they have two sets of pronouns, for example he/him and they/them, don’t just use one set of pronouns. That can come off as disingenuous. Alternate between the pronouns, don’t leave one or the other out. It’ll probably be hard at first, but if you keep it up, you’ll get used to it pretty quickly.

If you’re witnessing someone harass a non-binary person over their identity, step in and help them.

And please, don’t partake in non-binary erasure in media fandoms.

Don’t misgender non-binary characters, don’t “speculate” on what you think their gender might be. You already know their gender and it’s non-binary. It costs exactly 0 $ to be a decent human being and accept that.

Support Non-Binary people by educating yourself about them and helping to normalize and integrate their identity.

In fact, here’s a list of petitions, organizations and articles who will help you do just that:

https://www.change.org/p/collegeboard-let-students-use-their-preferred-name-on-collegeboard-9abad81a-0fdf-435c-8fca-fe24a5df6cc7?source_location=topic_page

6 Ways to Support Your Non-Binary Child

7 Non-Negotiables for Supporting Trans & Non-Binary Students in Your Classroom

If Your Partner Just Came Out As Non-Binary, Here’s How To Support Them

How to Support Your Non-Binary Employees, Colleagues and Friends

Ko-fi page for the Nonbinary Wiki

The Sylvia Rivera Project, an organization who aims to give low-income and non-white transgender, intersex and non-binary people a voice

The Anti Violence Project “empowers lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, and HIV-affected communities and allies to end all forms of violence through organizing and education, and supports survivors through counseling and advocacy."

The Trans Lifeline, a hotline for transgender people by transgender people

Tl:DR: Non-Binary representation is important. Non-Binary people still suffer from society at large not acknowledging our existence and forcing us to conform. Don’t be part of that problem by taking away what little representation we have. Educate yourself and do better instead. We deserve to be seen and heard.

#non-binary #agender #demigender #gender identity #essay #erasure #lgbt representation #misgendering #undertale #she ra spop #apex bloodhound #doppelganger #steven universe

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normal-thoughts-official · 3 years

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I would have loved to see more interactions with the seelies- people who can’t lie but are crafty and secretive sounds fascinating. Think of the dialog! Alec going to magnus for advice since he has centuries of experience talking to them, Alec playing mental chess while trying to maintain peace. Would have loved getting more- but let’s be real, Cassaundra and the show writers weren’t clever enough to actually make any conversations like that of value.

SAME!!!!! honestly i would have loved to see so much more of the seelies. like bro do you understand that their culture predates the VERY EXISTENCE OF HUMANITY??? they are the ONLY kind of downworlders whose culture is completely detached from any human culture, not only because of predating it, but also because of the relative isolationism - which means human culture barely had any influence on their culture and history AS it developed

so like you can literally go fucking bonkers??????????? you can make ANYTHING. they have a whole ass society that doesn't have to have ANY ties to mundane concepts or history AT ALL. complete creative freedom. you could do ANYTHING! and don't get me started on the potential this has, within storytelling, to contextualize a lot of stuff modern western culture sees as natural or timeless as actually pretty fucking specific - like monogamy, cisheteropatriarchy, the gender binary, racism. all immortals have that potential of course since they can come from an array of different cultural and historical backgrounds but seelies in particular have SO much potential that is NEVER! FUCKING! USED! it all goes to waste and they are just a generic vaguely monarchic society that behaves literally exactly as modern western cultural standards. WHY. i'll never stop being salty, especially within sh where all this potential was there and instead they just villainized the seelies like no tomorrow for nO FUCKING REASON, and included a whole plotline about their ruler being a terrible power-hungry person and then proceeded to act as if that would have no influence on the seelies under her rule? thanks for nothing

like i know the seelie queen was so badly written that her own motivations even as a power-hungry wacko didn't make sense or were consistent (like why give simon the mark of cain for example, and for god's sake what kind of power-hungry crazy bitch gives their main enemy the power to literally kill her and destroy everything she has at the blink of an eye, like??? she literally tried to assist in her own genocide, it makes no fucking sense, i fucking hate it here) but if they are going to make her Terrible the least they could do was show how that impacted the people under her rule, especially if they are going to have meliorn be fucking tortured and either forced to display the marks of said torture or choosing to display them themself, like? please give your plotlines one singular thought

but of course it's easier to villainize seelies and reduce them to their obviously tyrannical ruler so they can go back to focusing on the shadowhunters and their issues. nevermind the fact that seelies are obviously equivalent to native ppls/third world countries resisting colonialism/imperialism in sh's stupid ass racial metaphor, which makes making their ruler a big bad unequivocally evil villain that is ruining everything A Choice. and a particularly choicy Choice considering they cast a middle-eastern man to play the most important seelie character. but if they are going to do that they could at least address how the people under her rule suffer and how that's a direct consequence of shadowhunter colonialism and interference, but why would we fkcnig thdo that!!!! when we can have love triangle drama or whatever

and tHEN there is the whole aspect of being unable to lie which is bound to have such an impact on their culture and history since they have to rely on other forms of communication to protect themselves - and considering the whole "tyrannical rule" plotline, to further the queen's agenda in the first place. and how telling the truth without preamble would probably be considered a huge display of trust in a society that has culturally developed so many ways of talking around things. like again the potential of the cultural and historic background for that society! it makes me go insane!!!

anyway all of that to say #JusticeForSeelies and #SeeliePlotlinesNow 2021 and forever. and YES i would have loved to see more interactions between them and other characters, particularly magnus because 1- admittedly i'm a hoe; and 2- magnus was clearly the one that had the most experience talking to seelies and that others relied on for that communication. he also seemed to be the most comfortable with them, which indicates there is either some sort of history there, or magnus just happens to feel relatively at home with the workings of their culture. which makes sense, because magnus also had to develop pretty similar defense mechanisms due to his, A- work as a warlock representative who has to interact with shadowhunters on the regular; B- history with having to deal with asmodeus, which required him to be very smart about what he disclosed and how, especially considering that he had to have been planning banishing asmodeus for a long time before he got to do it; and C- just history with abuse in general. we've seen the way he closed his heart off to new people; but at the same time, magnus is obviously an extrovert and likes to be around people in general. this meant that, in order to be able to both be in the kind of environment where he thrives and protect himself/his heart/his feelings, he had to learn how to interact with people while putting on a convincing façade, which requires pretty much the same sorts of wordplay and defense mechanisms that seelies use

magnus is good at wordplay, he's good at using talking to his benefit; we've seen that. he is also good at hiding and deflecting. he is notably not good at directly lying - every time he directly said A Lie such as "i am perfectly fine and not bothered by this at all :)" it was way less convincing than it was a clear display that he wouldn't budge. even alec, who has difficulty with social cues, noticed the lying and seemed concerned about it. so like. clearly his defense mechanisms were less lying and more dancing around subjects, directing conversation to safe topics, and guiding people to making certain assumptions and seeing sides of his that were safer and he preferred

so in that way it makes sense that magnus is somewhat in his element when dealing with seelies. i think "comfortable" is a strong word because this whole song and dance takes a huge toll on anyone's mental health and energy (which i think is something that could be very interestingly explored in seelies, their collective psyche, and their culture, the way they build relationships, etc. let meliorn have partners they feel 100% comfortable talking without preamble with 2k21), but it's something he is used to and a dynamic he can fall into without as much effort as others who would be second guessing themselves more and going slower, which clearly gives the seelies, who are used to it, an advantage

and like i know that i'm implying a confrontation or sort of situation where they are on opposing sides to seelies here, which i kind of am because i am thinking mostly about magnus' interactions with the seelie queen specifically, since she was the seelie he had the most meaningful interactions with. his interactions with meliorn were very few and almost never relevant, i barely remember them happening outside of generic downworld cabinet interactions tbh. but i don't just mean that because again, stop villainizing seelies 2k21

i also mean just generally that magnus would be in a more comfortable position talking to seelie strangers and slowly working into building a relationship and mutual trust. and just generally understanding them and the workings of their culture because he can empathize with the way they have built their social defense mechanisms. no one is 100% truthful to strangers, but seelies always seem kind of- analytical. and the cultural difference + anti-seelie racism makes them seem untrustworthy to most people, but magnus Gets It, so the potential for friendships! and the mutual understanding and the relative comfort around each other! and both parts understanding the enormity that is letting their walls down gradually and being more direct as time goes by. like.... aaaaaa

and yes magnus becomes a sort of reference on talking to seelies, mostly because he is good at "playing their game", but also making it a point to humanize seelies and making the other parts understand where they are coming from and how they feel :) and just improving their relations, particularly with other downworlders

im not going to get into alec because 1- the relationship between shadowhunters and seelies is already filled with oppression and a lot of complications, and particularly now that the seelie realm is politically fragile due to the loss of their ruler (however terrible she might have been), it would play into either white savior narratives or just straight up colonialism, especially given how alec as a leader already has a history of trying to build tutelage over downworlders (i don't care what his intentions were, it's still true, and although he's learning... well. he's learning, continuous action); 2- that would be more a relationship of opposition and i'm not that interested in that. but i would love to see seelies rebuilding themselves and their relationships and alliances with other downworlders particularly, and all the better if magnus is playing a part in that :)

in short:

more seelies

more magnus with seelies, especially friendships

more focus on the politics of seelies now that the seelie queen is gone

more seelies

#sh #shadowhunters #lore #magnus bane #meliorn #seelies #the seelie queen #seelie culture #seelie history #meta #magnus bane meta #meliorn meta #in a way #ask #anonymous #long post #salt #a bit #ok maybe a lot but mostly to add flavor to my lore ramblings

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sanstropfremir · 3 years

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So I have opinions on the other stages but like most of us I can’t stop thinking about the SF9 stage. Hanya said it really well in her response but I think we have to break up the members into the ones who tried to emulate Taemin’s androgyny and those who just flat out didn’t try. So in order I’d put it Taeyang, Jaeyoon, Zuho. Those three stood out to me the most as really pushing into more feminine ways of carrying themselves and dancing especially Jaeyoon-like where did that man come from it was very unexpected. Then Chani and Inseong were both more neutral. I can’t put Chani in the first category mostly because of the contrast between his dancing and style with the female dancers that made it obvious that he was still trying to be more masculine despite having certain moves that definitely lend to a feline style like all the hip movements(whether consciously or unconsciously). And last Hwiyoung, Youngbin, and Dawon. I think this is the distinction that some people were making with “sexy” and “Taemin sexy”. Like everyone just associates him with sexiness but opening your shirt to show off your abs doesn’t fit with Taemin’s usual sensuality. Taemin seems to be more focused on movement (throwback to your post on his dancing style) so in order to emulate him there a certain attitude and way in which you carry yourself through movement is necessary. Also youngbin’s rap part did not fit with the concept either-it was too energetic and chill (too much swagger?). Like the way he moved compared to say Zuho was more in line with his usual stuff rather than fitting the way he moved to the stage and song. It’s also interesting to see that the outfits seem to also keep in line with this. Zuho and Taeyang have their midsections showing in a way that’s more common in women’s fashion then in men’s, Chani and Inseong are almost completely covered (so neither in one direction or the other) and Hwiyoung has his arms bared to show off his manly, manly biceps. And of course there’s Dawon. It’s fascinating to compare the members with the more revealing outfits. Like they all have their midsections uncovered but to be more feminine it’s only just a crop top and to be more masculine you open the shirt up completely. It makes sense. Also I’ve been obsessed with Jaeyoon and I can’t exactly pinpoint why he stood out so much especially when Taeyang is RIGHT THERE (though I don’t really think Taeyang got a solo scene but rather was center on the group dances which kind of dilutes his parts). Like his outfit is pretty plain but I love the cutout and the fact that he has long sleeves but they aren’t mesh. It’s simple but effective. I kept thinking this was the Hetero man’s Move especially during Youngbin and Dawson’s parts.

ok this took a really long time because honestly i changed what i was writing about like four times in the middle of the process and i changed my mind like four times because this is a very complicated topic and i could not settle on what the best way to come at it was. tbh i dont think i did the best job even though this is over a thousand words but i have no clue how to make this any more coherent without re-reading all of my flatmate and i's gender theory books and that's just way too much. but here we go.

EDIT: here is hanya’s post about the stage for reference!

where i'm at right now is that i think we are overlaying taemin’s current gender antics with what the actual move was. move has transformed along with taemin, and as such we look back at it with the understanding of what it becomes, but if we take a moment to forget that context, well... let me show you. here’s the 171019 comeback stage. and the 171027. and the 171029. now, here’s the 190223 stage from sketchbook. and from almost a year later, at the 2019 mbc music festival. and now here’s it from a month ago on the tiktok stage. it’s changed a significant amount not only in how he performs it, but in how the costumes and his body affect what it looks like. the cutoff muscle shirt of october 2017 absolutely has a different connotation than the lace back and velvet princess glove and the diamonds of december 2019.

i still do believe that sf9’s cover is missing a huge dimension because it comes from a fundamental non-understanding of what people who present even the slightest bit outside of the gender binary go through, i don’t think they were wrong in interpreting it as ‘man doing non-aggressive but seductive dance moves’ because on the surface, that’s what it is. taemin has actually spent a significant portion of his solo career doing what you described as traditionally 'masculine' dressing; he did famously rip his shirt off for the first non-music show performance of danger, after all. what we associate as 'taemin sensuality' is relatively new for him, it's more prominently a post-want mannerism because pre-move (and for a lot of move itself) he was very focussed on being perceived as masculine.

if we look at sf9's costumes individually, the breakdown looks like this:

chani - skinny trouser, chiffon shirt, and a cropped wrap suit jacket with a tie back

dawon - straight leg trouser, open silk shirt

jaeyoon - asymmetric open shoulder mock turtleneck, wide leg trouser

taeyang - wide leg trouser, faux leather open shoulder crop top

inseong - silk/silk blend shirt, cropped asymmetric suit jacket with a crossover back, tailored trouser

hwiyoung - sleeveless mock neck faux leather vest, straight leg cargo pant

youngbin - mock neck asymmetric crop top with a mesh underlayer, wide leg trouser

zuho - skinny trouser, mock neck crop top, cropped suit jacket with a pointed front

taemin has worn most of these looks. cropped wrap jacket? ngda beyond live velvet suit. open silk shirt? the move album cover. asymmetric shoulder cutout? several want performances. the only exception is that he doesn’t often wear non-skinny trousers, but even then he did for his beauty and the beast moment with the jinro frog. and sleeveless was the whole costume concept for move in the first place. even youngbin’s look is very similar to this outfit from the offsick concert series. but silhouette is only one factor of a complete costume design - you have to take into account the performer’s body, and how that silhouette is perceived on that body. it’s interesting that you specify that hwiyoung’s biceps are ‘manly’ and grouped him in with the more ‘masculine’ of the sf9 members; as i showed at the beginning of this, taemin was at his most physically muscular for move promotions. hwiyoung has just as pretty a face as taemin, but we perceive him differently in this outfit because his body is categorized as more masculine because his muscles are bigger. and this is fundamentally a gender essentialist argument because bigger muscles are not actually ‘more masculine,’ muscles don’t have gender they’re just how humans move around. it’s just our societally impressed gender binary that makes us think that.

another costume point i want to make is how you describe chani and inseong as being completely covered so ‘neither one direction or the other,’ which i would like to break down a bit. for starters, jaeyoon is also essentially fully covered, but you perceived him as being one of the more androgynous ones over chani or inseong. why? because his silhouette was more form-fitted? because there was an uncommon area of skin showing? chani has a tightly fit silhouette as well, and you can see a fair amount of his skin because his shirt is chiffon. why is a suit neutral but something cut to follow the contour of a body not? the fact of the matter is, the suit is the most symbolically gendered garment in the world; it is loaded with western colonial and patriarchal implications. we just view it as 'neutral' because we’ve been normalized to see it as neutral. now neither of the suits chani or inseong are wearing are traditionally cut, and chani’s especially is quite subversive in its construction, but taemin is no stranger to using the implications of a suit for move, here’s the stage from 171105. grey double breasted pinstripe suits were the most popular style for businessmen in the postwar west, and still maintain a prominent indicator of class and power to this day.

you are correct in pointing out that the movements and mannerisms of the members don’t all match the same level, but i want to specifically talk about the intro moment with chani, because you mention him as trying to be more masculine, which i very much disagree with. chani actually does the best at retaining the body neutrality of the original choreo because the original choreo as a stand alone isn’t that seductive or ‘feminine.’ yea he doesn’t have the attitude down pat but the guy’s 20 and is clearly not as comfortable with being this kind of sexy. the reason why you’re perceiving him to be more ‘masculine’ in his movements is because the backup dancers are frankly, being pretty aggressively sexual in a feminine coded way around him. of course he’s gonna look out of place! part of what gives move its uniqueness is that the backup dancers are doing the exact same choreo as taemin, at the exact same intensity. not an altered version where they slut drop behind him.

like i said at the very beginning, i think taemin’s been tipped into the ‘feminine’ category under false assumptions, so it’s doing a bit of skewing of the responses to this stage. if i were to make a very reductivist diagram, i think a lot of responses have been (taemin) <- neutral -> masculine, with the implication that taemin is the feminine analogue, but in reality what taemin is and is aiming for is feminine -> (taemin) <- masculine. because we have been socialized to see things in such an aggressive binary, it can be very difficult to pick out what a true neutral is.

#clothing bodies and mannerisms are all genderless and gendered at the same time #it is the context that makes them gendered and you have to deconstruct and understand that context in order to get closer to neutral #personally i think most of taemin's solo career has been more 'deconstructing masculinity' than aiming at neutral #but ngda and advice have been much more pointed in their use of 'femininity' and get him much closer to that neutral #taemin very specifically uses costume mannerism and body as subversive tools against his perceived gender #and sf9 did not use them in the same way #the mannerisms are the main culprit but also those are the hardest to divorce from gender #and you dont really know how to unless you sit outside the binary #ctrl f how many times i fucking use the word gender in this response but dont tell me i dont wanna know #god this is so barebones and unclear theres so many things i didnt cover #i am all over the MAP with this one #i hate writing analysis about gender because it can be highly subjective #but also it relies on systems that need to be dismantled and analysed FIRST before you can even get to the fun stuff about clothes #ok im done with this if people have questions lemme know but i cant promise my explanation will be any better because my pea brain is mush #kingdom #sf9 #taemin meta #text #kingdom asks

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