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emblazons · 16 days

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i’m about a month late to the ffvii rebirth fanfare but i saw your study/shot comparison for the ending while scrolling through some tags and was really curious to see if you had come up with any more conclusions since then! i just finished it a couple days ago and still reeling from it and have been enjoying hearing people’s thoughts about what the heck they think is going on. obvs cloud is not ok, but i’m still trying to decide just how much of what we’re seeing is due to his sanity going out the window and how much of it (if any) is aerith actually speaking to him and/or sephiroth messing with him. the way he tells the rest of the party to not look up at the sky though and none of them see what he sees, just clues them all in to the fact that he isn’t entirely all there anymore. a collective very concerned side-eye lol. somebody help him pls.

!!! oh friend, you're in a TON of luck: I actually started a few different commentaries on how I saw the ending on this weeks back, but didn't post them because I got distracted by other fandoms? I'm more than happy to share them though—not as developed as they could be, but some congealing of where my mind went upon finishing the game and rewatching the gameplay.

forewarning: FFVII ending spoilers + a long af post lmao

So I wrote this on my twitter (where I go to see things only on twt lol) the other day because of a bunch of concepts were clarified by the Ultimania + translators, which kinda sums up where my thoughts are:

Which...yeah. As I see it: as of the ending, Aerith is in fact dead in our current world (the one of the player narrative). How I see it, she's died in our primary timeline—though likely "alive" in the same way Zack is in some other timeline, in addition to her connection to every "universe" through the power of her connection to the planet as the last Cetra.

The white whispers (which represent Aerith/the will of the planet) as well as the “confluence of world” colors we see with Sephiroth are all around when Cloud supposedly “sees her alive" during the classic death scene—

—an indicator that the event itself was the "confluence" Sephiroth was trying to achieve, with Cloud experiencing several versions of it due to his own connection to Sephiroth/the lifestream/his fragmented mind. We see this both in what Sephiroth says around the event itself....and also the contrasting experiences of our party with what Cloud sees in the moment (+ through end of the game).

As I see it, Cloud’s consciousness by the end of FFVII:R-II is fully fractured; throughout both Remake & Rebirth he is already seeing visions affected by Sephiroth’s influence on the planet (the black whispers, the way hooded men and thin air turn into Sephiroth before his eyes)—and now, during the “confluence of emotions / worlds / reunion” mentioned (Aerith's death), Cloud’s already broken mind is slipping further into seeing “the middle space” of the worlds joined and prepared for destruction by Sephiroth in real time, rather than following the timeline of events in the world we play—a la the post that inspired your ask. :)

All that said: the reason he’s seeing Aerith (not just sensing her the way Red does in his own Lifestream connection) is because she’s a Cetra, and now (in death) the embodiment of the positive!Will of Gaia across worlds—so because of Cloud's connection to that "middle space" / ability to traverse different versions of reality because of his connection to Sephiroth, Cloud is interacting with her presence…despite it not being there for anyone else.

It’s also why he can see the sky split no one else can.

ADDITIONALLY:

The Aerith we see fight alongside Cloud in the final battle and the one we see walking around everyone as Cid fixes the plane…that’s the spirit of her person (think the Aerith of Advent Children). Aerith didn’t live this game—her spirit can communicate because of Sephiroth's successful confluence, though she’s ALSO "alive" in the same way Zack and Biggs are to us: aka she died in the world she was in but still exists in others, which Sephiroth confirms/explains both when Aerith pulls Cloud into another “doomed” world—

when he’s trying to manipulate Cloud in the Lifestream—

and when you’re fighting Sephiroth alongside Aerith in the void during the final battle (after she’s died).

Even so, Aerith “living on” as the last Cetra/the spirit of the planet + someone with access to multiple worlds through the "reunion" means she’s now as able to infiltrate Cloud's ongoing visions as Sephiroth is...and is likely trying to keep him even somewhat present despite his clearly fractured mind.

I think that’s implied repeatedly by through the hollow Holy Materia (implying both Aerith is no longer “there,” but still present + that cloud himself is now hollow)—

—and why/how the Black Materia (Sephiroth) is still manipulating him and very much driving his fractured thoughts, visions and actions.

As for the rest of the party: it's because no one but his “vessel-connected-to-Sephiroth” self (+ now dead-but-living-on-in-the-Lifestream Aerith) has any idea what he learned about worlds in the Lifestream that what’s happening to Cloud is lost on everyone (and why they look painfully concerned), and also why spirit!Aerith repeatedly gives him reminders to 1) not listen to Sephiroth and 2) focus on finding himself again.

All that said: because Cloud’s actual self is already slipping away from our present game TL by the second half of the game, it will have to be retrieved and rearranged—which we know will happen in game 3 (assuming you know the original FF7 plot where Tifa rearranges him in the Lifesteam) but that has to be changed from “Cloud finds out about Zack and finally cracks" because Cloud already knows about Zack in some capacity by the middle of Rebirth.

I personally think this sets us up for a really interesting resolution in that Tifa is going to probably have spirit!Aerith’s help putting Cloud back together in the Lifestream in game 3—and that she will likely play a bigger part in helping Cloud “find himself” in his own world again because it’s been made more apparent that she’s a full consciousness in the Lifestream/able to affect multiple worlds now because of Sephiroth completing the first step in his plan. That's more just hopeful on my part going into the next game than something rooted in analysis though.

But yes! those are my thoughts! I hope this gives you (more than a little) something. Feel free to ask if something isn’t clear though lol this was like 4 different half-done drafts combined 😂 Regardless, ty so much for the ask / giving me a reason to post them!

#I hope this made even one (1) iota of sense. I can clarify in a full post later if you'd like because this was a lot of bits and bobs LOL #still. its been made clear by Nomura and Co she is no longer with us at least in THIS world #and context clues as to when cloud sees her + the streak in the sky + the visions of sephiroth etc...his connection to Sephiroth #through Mako/SOLDIER/something similar to the Sephiclones is why he's out here going THROUGH IT #as Sephiroth converges the world. at least in MY reading #cloud strife #aerith gainsborough #sephiroth #ffvii analysis #ffvii spoilers #ffvii:r spoilers #ffvii #final fantasy #the me tag #asks

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breakfastteatime · 1 year

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(People completing Crisis Core who've only played the Remake must be just wait, WHAT??)

#lololololololol #crisis core #crisis core reunion #ffvii:r #i am SO curious about what it's like to have only played the remake and not the original #HOW are you avoiding spoilers???#because the entirety of crisis core is just one GIANT spoiler for what was one of the best twists in the og #at least it was to baby me

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butter-and-too-much-bread · 4 years

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‪Wow I can’t believe Zack Fair overshadowed Jesus this Easter.‬ He is risen indeed.

#ffvii:r #ffvii:r spoilers #spoilers #ffvii spoilers #final fantasy remake #final fantasy vii remake spoilers #final fantasy vii remake #zack fair

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militaaris · 4 years

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Here’s a fan theory: (FFVII and FFVII Remake Spoilers!)

What if the 7 seconds Sephiroth mentions has to do with a live action cutscene where, when Aerith is at the forgotten city, you have 7 seconds to decide whether to save her or save the planet but if you save her, the planet dies and/or Aerith ends up resenting Cloud because its ‘not what she would have wanted” and if you save the planet (or don’t react fast enough), the game continues like the original? it would be similar to the ending of Life is Strange?

#ffvii #ffvii remake #clerith #cloud #aerith #ffvii:r #ffvii: remake #ffviir spoilers #ffvii spoilers #ffvii:r spoilers #ffvii remake spoilers #ff7 #ff7 remake #ff7 spoilers

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back-to-rose · 4 years

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FFVII thoughts on Sephiroth

Thoughts on Sephiroth and Cloud under the cut.

I really don’t get the obsession Sephiroth has with Cloud. I forgot why Cloud plays such a big part in Sephiroth’s existence after the Nibelheim massacre incident. I’ve read that Sephiroth’s hate for Cloud kept him conscious in the Livestream. Yet to me, Sephiroth seems so otherwordly that he doens’t experience emotions like hate anymore, jet he still hates which makes him human and yet he’s so alien.

I’m so torn over his character. He wants to get rid of Cloud, yet spares him. He hates Cloud’s gut, yet he kinda needs him to fuel his hate so he can keep existing?

It makes for an interesting story narratively speaking.

Maybe it’s just me, but I’m a bit confused by it.

It’s been a very long time since I’ve played FFVII, and I only watched FFVII:AC and Last Order and read the “way before a smile of certain characters. I’ve never played any other game of the compilation of FFVII (I only watched the whole gameplay of Crisis Core and a part of Dirge of Cerberus but that’s not the same as actually playing it). So maybe that’s why I can’t seem to grasp it.

#FFVII:R #Sephiroth #Cloud Strife #final fantasy VII #I use this blog now to pose my most inner thoughts #Call it my personal journal #of sorts #thoughts #text #spoilers #ffvii:R spoilers #spoiler alert

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tcookies · 4 years

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“Zack lives” theory

Everybody keeps talking about how Zack is alive in a parallel timeline or whatnot because of Stamp’s changed appearance in the chip bag that breezes by with emphasis... but what about the fact that the Whispers appear around Zack when he enters the battlefield?

Now, in the 1997 FF7 game, 3 Shinra soldiers are supposed to appear and shoot Zack shortly after Zack finishes off the army and is carrying Cloud to Midgar. But the 2007 Crisis Core has a slightly alternate ending in which Zack finishes off 98% of the Shinra army and is confronted by the last 3 grunts right after. He fights them, loses, and they shoot him up while he’s lying helplessly on the ground. In this alternate ending, Zack had Cloud hidden safely away around the corner compared to the OG when he’s carrying Cloud, stops to fight off the Shinra soldiers pursuing them, returns to Cloud to continue carrying him, and is then shot. I want to say that Crisis Core is the more accurate and canon ending since it’s the most recent version of Zack’s death, and also CC was written by Nojima who also served as writer of the OG FF7. However, with Remake, it’s not clear which details remain canon and which details are no longer canon (i.e. Aerith’s ribbon). Anyway, back to the theory - Now, Whispers appear whenever a major plot point or character diverges from their fate, and work to preserve the OG timeline. That’s what we know so far. So why would they appear for Zack? Because they know he is about to diverge from his fated death and are waiting for the moment when he is supposed to die so that they can swoop in and ensure that he does meet his fate. If he was sure to die as he does in the OG, then there would be no reason for the Whispers to appear for him. Their presence implies they are there to kill him off just like he is supposed to after his fight with the army.

Except Cloud and co. defeat Whisper Harbinger and destroy the Whispers just in the nick of time.

I’ve seen people say that only those who have touched Aerith (who somehow supposedly has knowledge of the OG timeline) can see Whispers (i.e. when Aerith grabs Cloud and he suddenly sees the Whispers). However, others like Rufus Shinra and Zack are able to see the Whispers just fine on their own. I think it’s not touching Aerith but simply that those who are changing or have diverged from their OG fate are able to see the Whispers. If you believe that Aerith is aware of the OG timeline, then it’d be reasonable that she’d be the first to know about & see the Whispers because she is the first to be actively diverging from her OG fate. So all the more reason why Zack is able to see that Whisper storm and the bright light emanating as a result of the Whispers being destroyed. So now, Zack is also free from his fate. Now that the Whispers are destroyed, they’re no longer around to ensure Zack dies, assuming that he did survive the last 3 soldiers. But again, why would they have appeared to him in this pivotal moment if it would’ve already been a guarantee that he’d die by the Shinra soldiers?

I’m not saying it’s confirmed that Zack is alive in this parallel timeline - or wherever the hell this Zack is from. I’m just saying ‘hey, stop looking at the bag of chips for a moment and looky here’ if you’re looking for more evidence of the “Zack lives” theory. I know some of ya’ll hate this popular theory because of many great reasons, but it’s still fun to theorize, right?

#ff7 remake #og ff7 spoilers #crisis core #zack fair #final fantasy 7 remake #ffvii:r #theory

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avaantares · 4 years

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Imma rant for a minute. (This is me being critical of a thing, so if you’re eschewing negativity right now, feel free to scroll on past.) :)

Sooooo I took a break from replaying FFVII:R tonight (last night, by the time this posts) to watch the stream of Andrew Lloyd Webber’s Love Never Dies, a show I already knew to be terrible (but hey, you can't argue with free musicals, right?). Long before the musical opened, I’d read The Phantom of Manhattan, the book it’s based on, and that was... like... Hmm. Think of a bad fanfiction you've read. I mean a really bad one, one that gets every single character wrong, has the stupidest of stupid fiction tropes, includes ridiculously contrived scenarios to kill off characters and weird medical "science" and historical inaccuracies and a totally implausible plot, all mashed together just to reinforce someone's OTP which was kind of an unhealthy relationship to begin with and got considerably more unhealthy in this story, AND it includes a lengthy author’s note in which the writer bashes the author of the original work his story is based on and explains everything that author did wrong and how it should have been written, using examples from the fic writer’s own work to demonstrate.*

Then picture that as a $24.99 hardback.

So I knew the general story already, and I'd seen a couple of clips from the stage show, and from what I remembered it was all pretty forgettable. But like I said, free to watch, right? Nothing to lose but a couple of hours.

Oh. My. Goodness. I was not prepared for the full experience. It's like Phantom of the Opera and Cats had a (secret) baby that got shoved in a blender with all of circa-2004 Fanfiction.net and then pasted back together by a YA fiction editor’s intern. Despite a truly exceptional cast and some strong visual and set design, it wavered between cringe-y and I’m-going-to-hurt-myself-laughing levels of bad.

Mind you, it’s still better than the book, in which (SPOILER ALERT if anyone cares, which you probably don’t because if you’re the type of fan who would, you’ve probably already seen the show) Christine’s son is not the byproduct of a willing affair she had with Erik after she became disillusioned with her marriage, but was conceived after he kidnapped her at the Opera House, and... let’s just say consent was dubious, at best. (IIRC she was “half swooning” and not entirely aware of what was happening.) Also there’s some nonsense about Raoul being impotent from a war wound and never having consummated their marriage... But broadly speaking, the story is the same as the musical -- by which I mean it completely negates everything good and symbolic and meaningful about ALW’s Phantom of the Opera, to which the book was as much a sequel as it was to the original Gaston Leroux novella.

Love Never Dies fails as a sequel for a number of reasons: Every character you liked in the original? Assassinated. Raoul, who was willing to sacrifice his life for Christine in POTO, is now an abusive, alcoholic wastrel who has gambled his family into crippling debt. Christine cheats on her husband with a guy who has made a habit of kidnapping and threatening her, and who has actually murdered a number of people. Meg, Christine’s dearest friend and confidante, is now a washed-up burlesque dancer who -- again, SPOILER ALERT -- tries to kill first Christine’s son, then herself, then finally succeeds in killing Christine. The broadest take-home message of POTO, that kindness and love can heal even the deepest wounds, is undercut by these dramatic character reversals. Even the show’s title anthem “Love Never Dies” is contradicted by the love triangle at the center of the plot. Maybe love never dies, but that doesn’t stop Christine from cheating on her husband, Raoul from walking out on his wife and son, Erik from threatening to kill Christine’s child if she doesn’t do what he wants, Meg from betraying and murdering her best friend... yeah, let’s not take relationship advice from this group.

But beyond that, LND is just bad structurally. The Phantom’s opening number builds up to be a “Music of the Night”-style anthem -- a dubious choice, since it makes everything he sings for the next half an act feel flat by comparison. Then we go into a surreal Coney Island segment for a while, then a bunch of really awkward dialogue exposition gets crammed in, and then twenty minutes into the show we finally meet Christine and her family, which kicks off the actual plot. The pacing is uneven. The tone is all over the map, too, bouncing between Phantom-like operatic ballads and Jesus Christ Superstar-esque carnival rock numbers. (All of which, I have to say, the Melbourne cast knocked out of the park. The vocal performances were definitely not a weak spot in this production.)

While I really like a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber's stuff -- I've seen a number of his shows on stage, some of them three or four times -- his titles seem to be hit-or-miss. For every Phantom, there's a Whistle Down the Wind. Some of that isn't his fault; a mediocre lyricist or book writer can do a lot of damage, even with good music. This musical had two lyricists and four writers, and it shows. But IMO, this is also not Lloyd Webber’s best work. Apart from the title song, which I’ve heard often enough to know it outside of the show, I can recall the melodies of... two songs? The score isn’t bad, it’s just not as instantly memorable as Sunset Boulevard or Joseph or Phantom. And a weak story plus average music doesn’t equal a great show.

I’m sure I’ve complained more than anyone cares to read, but I have one final rant about something that caused me to startle my dog by making some very screechy noises: When Christine arrives by ship, the Phantom sends a horseless carriage to pick her up at the pier. Mind you, this scene is specifically stated to take place in New York in 1905. The crowd of onlookers is utterly SHOCKED by a vehicle that moves by itself. “There are no horses!” someone exclaims. "How does it work?"

Apparently all four of the credited writers slept through history class, and also couldn’t be bothered to Google a photo of New York at the turn of the century. Automobiles have been around since the 1880s, and by 1905, New York had so many cars on the streets that the New York Supreme Court had to hand down a ruling guaranteeing that horse-drawn transportation still had the same right-of-way as motorized vehicles, because the motorists didn’t want to share the road. Heck, my own great-grandfather owned a car by 1895! Glaring, easily-avoided errors like this jar me so far out of the story -- even good stories, which this one wasn’t -- that they actually bother me more than other, more significant failings. At least do your basic research, people. Use Google. Grrr.

Anyway, I’m just rambling now because I can’t sleep and I'm on prescription narcotics for pain and my dog is tired of listening to me grumble. Don’t mind me; I’m not actually this negative in real life. 😅

----------------------------------------------------

* I am not exaggerating. In the foreword, author Frederick Forsyth bashes Gaston Leroux and gives examples from his own works to explain how Le Fantôme de l'Opéra could have been written better. Like. DUDE. NO.

That book went straight into the donation box the moment I was done reading it. When Love Never Dies came out, I briefly regretted getting rid of it, but then I remembered how bad the story was and stopped feeling bad.

#Love Never Dies #andrew lloyd webber #phantom of the opera #musicals #Review #insomnia writes #long post

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rhystheceo · 4 years

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FFVII:R Cutscenes

As is my custom with games I play, I’ve started to upload the cutscenes from FFVIIR to my YT channel, for the editors and whoever else is interested.

[find them here]

It goes without saying that the link leads to MASSIVE SPOILERS, so click only if you’re sure that’s what you want to do.

Happy watching/editing!

#ffviir #ffviir spoilers #tag:resources #ffvii #here's to hoping square doesn't kill me #i did wait for the official release tho

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tina-nina · 3 years

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Aerith FFVII

I haven't actually finished Remake (or the original for that matter... thought the spoiler train for that game has long since passed) as I have been separated from my PS4 by a large ocean but from what I HAVE seen of Aerith

Why I like her: She’s spunky and sassy and will absolutely punch a bitch out, but is still incredibly kind and selfless with a drive to make the frankly horrible place she lives in at least a little bit better.

Why I don’t: again haven't finished either OG or Remake but At least in the OG she just seemed a bit... passive? Which isn’t bad in and of itself, and this could just be a flaw in my own understanding of the game and her character for which I apologize for my ignorance, but like. I would have liked to see her do more I guess? please don't flambe me

Favorite Scene:

Favorite line: “Permission to kill?” GET EM AERITH

Favorite Outfit: honestly her base FFVII:R outfit is classy and I want a copy of the whole thing for myself, it's so pretty.

OTP: tie between Zack/Aerith and Tifa/Aerith, both of those ships are very cute

BroTP: Cloud and Aerith, sorry dudes, they have mad bro energy and i don't really ship them together

Headcanon: It was very difficult for Aerith to react to present stimuli when she was younger cause the Planet wouldn't shut the fuck up and even now, even if its a lot better, there are times when she loses time because she didn't ignore it successfully enough (Not a unique headcanon by any means but what can you do)

Unpopular opinion: honestly I don't know enough to say anything about this *shrug*

A wish: I want her to punch Sephiroth in the face, please and thank you

An oh-god-please-dont-ever-happen: uhhhhhhh I guess having her role be diminished to the “needs to die” state and having her not be important for anything else. Which will never happen from ive seen of Remake but that is a Fear

5 words to best describe them: Kind, mischievous, secretly-feral, sassy, brave

My nickname: Aerie

#final fantasy 7 #snowflake-of-destruction #Aerith Gainsborough #what a queen #let her punch sephiroth

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prince-noctisluciscaelum · 4 years

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I will stop using the spoiler tags for FFVII:R after this week. All posts will still be tagged as “final fantasy vii remake” and “ffvii remake” if you want to keep those tags blocked.

#about my blog

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moodysnowflake · 4 years

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First of all, gigantic

SPOILER ALERT

'Cause everybody shoud say it before starting.

Sure, it's not really a spoiler by definition, 'cause it's been 23 years, but still.

It's almost like with Harry Potter. Who read the books knows, and if you just started, it would be a really mean and dickish move to say anything.

Just because you've played FFVII, it doesn't give you the permission to rob the experience from new players, if they try not to get spoiled. Even if the game has been out there for two decades.

It would be like if, knowing the actual plot by Nomura-san himself, I will leak it you, old player.

You wouldn't like that very much now, would you?

Also, please let's keep it human and reasonable, this is just a stream of consciousness and my personal thoughts, I'm not going to insult anyone, nor players, nor Square Enix, so I would appreciate the same respect. Thank you.

I've already written stuff so far in order not to reveal, and if you, knew player, are insisting on continuing...well, what can I say? You've got a big storm coming; you just decided you didin't care, I'm not going to be responsible for ruining your experience. I warned you, you've spoiled yourself, and I'm sorry for that.

That being said.

This is exactly what it looks like, a huge steam blow, to get all my convoluted trains of thoughts out of my head, and see if someone else is perceiving the same things as me or, if not, is able to discuss it in a civil and constructive manner.

What I think about FFVII:R story and ending.

To start, I will be referring to the gameplay's events as timeline 2, and the original as timeline 1. You'll get why.

I think that, despite the dubious ending, we've all been already played, and what we think being the first destiny's divergence, a.k.a. Zack's survival, is actually a flashback of timeline 2. So yes, something that already happened in the actual game and influenced the story so far.

Why is that?

Let's start from the beginning. Or the end, depends on how you look at it.

Aerith.

'Not Sephiroth?' you might ask.

Nope. Not Sephiroth. Aerith indeed.

In timeline 1, she died, and become one with the Life Stream. We know it. That's okay, I'm not trying to argue with that.

I'm considering it for its very meaning. Aerith became one with the planet, so one with destiny itself.

Let's try to look at this perspective: if you were given the power to change destiny, anywhere you want, for everyone you know...Would you really not give it a try? If you were ever given the chance to save the person you love, and everybody who died because of your fuck ups, would you not even consider to change things? Not even once?

Aerith has always been energetic, sometimes naive, so full of life and hope, especially HOPE, despite everything, even being afraid of freedom and the unknown, but giving it a go anyway. So why couldn't she have tried? I can see that happening.

It wasn't Sephiroth who destroyed the Whispers of Midgar in that shiny, golden, big-ass explosiong which knowcked Zack off of his feet. It was her.

Zack was not supposed to reach Midgar, and Aerith interfered, saving him...for what time we're allowed to see until the end of the game.

Being the Whispers a sort of "defence line", I don't think that she got rid of them for good, because they're part of the very backup system of Gaia, so I'm more inclined to think that she just managed to temporarly shut them down.

Hoping to give Zack more time...but, in my opinion, not that much.

Let's be real; Zack's death has been one of the most tragic and emotional ones of the compilation, because Zack Fair is as near as you can go to the definition of Best Boy and everybody should love him. Yes, he was not immune to the SOLDIER's madness, because he was obsessed to become a hero, to be able to save someone.

But we have to thank him if Aerith decided to sell the flowers; if it wasn't for him, Aerith and Cloud would never have met (in every timeline).

He was the reason of the Seventh Heaven's name. He's the reason of that goddamned squatting minigame (yeah...you didn't think about that, did you?).

And naturally, he's the reason why our adorkable Cloud Strife not only is still alive, but also the source of his combat abilities.

Sure, Spike was trained and filled up to the brim with mako, but where do you think he was pulling all of his batshit crazy stunts from, if not Zack's memories?

e.g.: the very first landing in Crisis Core is e x a c t l y the same movement, the only difference being Zack touching the ground putting the weight on his right side while Cloud did it on his left. The only reason I can think about is because Zack wasn't holding the Buster, and that is how you would handle your balance if you were rigth-handed.

First digression done...it's gonna be painful...

Nobody is forcing you: don't like, don't read.

Feel free to stop whenever you like, I'm not gonna get offended.

So, Aerith tried, because she is the ultimate cinnamol roll and she wants to believe. She's fantastic and hopeful, and she firmly believe in trying to change destiny, saving as many people as she can. Why wouldn't she?

So she tried (why not from his mother's death? She could have tried, but Ifalna migth have said she didn't want to be saved. Who knows. I definitely don’t.), but it simply didn't work, because Zack had to die anyway, the Whispers de-bugged themselves and everything spectacularly backfired.

The question is how he's gonna die. If Crisic Core’s death was the worst, how could it go more bananas? I have some alternatives:

- Cloud (by Sephiroth intervention) killing Zack with his own hands without realizing it until the very end, Zack accepting it and trying to comfort him while drifting away [the less likely one for me];

- Zack dies again (maybe in the sewers?) because of Cloud's fault, either giving him the Buster to defend himself (remaining disarmed) or because he physically shields Cloud from a bullet shower or an explosion (something has to get rid of Shinra's troops to let Spike escape);

All of these theories imply that Zack still dies like a hero and knowing it.

- Let's go Cruelty: Full Cowling. Let's shatter even that one joy, the most important thing Zack managed to accomplish in his mad chase, reaching for his dream: die a hero. He could have managed to hide Cloud, giving him the Buster, running in the opposite direction and getting captured instead of insta-killed. Returning in Hojo's nightmare, this time dying a slow, agonizing, dark death. What if the bastard, in Zack’s very lasts moments, will deceive him, telling him they found Cloud, even if they haven't, just to mess up with him? That would be devastating: Zack would die feeling completely useless, absolutely worthless, even if he's not. He's still a hero, but he will never know.

This is where Sephiroth might come along.

Specifically, Advent Children's Sephiroth.

Who, at some point, gave/activated/infused/whateverisgonnabe timeline 1 Cloud's memories into him. Because Cloud has friggin’ Jenova's cells within him, so Sephiroth can do what the heck he wants and toy with the guy as long as he sees fit. As he has done throughout the game.

When could we see it?

- "I've killed you with my own [hands]...": Sephiroth is doing a vibe-check, to see how much Cloud remembers, and simply goes masterfully along with it, starting to fuck with him right then; he needs for Cloud to be as mentally unstable as possible, because of Black Materia reasons. He is one of the best manipulators in the game, after all. If not the best one.

- "But that is then, and this is now." Criptic af, could be interpreted as both Cloud canonically remembering in a modified timeline 1, or timeline 2 innest. Being Sephiroth, the jackass could be referring to both of them, just becasue he can.

- "Promise you'll come and save me" scene. Timeline 1 Cloud shouldn't remember it at that point in the game. Also, this wouldn't lead to the heart to hearth with Tifa right after. If it's not a modified timeline 1, to show that spiky boi is not a total socially awkward blond artichoke.

- Aerith's death and Holy's flashes. What could possibly confuse you more than that, together with a blasting migraine? I think this is Sephiroth not-verbal way to say "You're not gonna be able to save her. Ever. You didn't succeded then, you're not gonna make it now, not even if she knows it. It's gonna happend anyway."

- At the Edge of Creation, when he asks for Cloud's help, Cloud has a blink-moment in which his right hand seems to move towards him, an uncoordinated gesture, but still there (memory of timeline 1...when he sort of did it)

*What about Zack's name being said in Emerald Park and nothign really happening to Cloud? Well, if you have been innested another timeline's memories, things would be pretty screwed up in your head, wouldn't they? That could be why Cloud had just a crippling aneurisma hearing it: his brain was probably trying not to melt in a puddle. Also, Aerith could have been interfering with it (but I'm explaining that later), blocking his possible messed up recollection, because that would have been quite the situatuion both for Spike's sanity and the players'.

Advent Childrend's (AC) Sephiroth? Why not another one? Come on, we've got plenty of evidence of it during the gameplay (I'll be referring to both English and Japanese [coming from the Italian adaptation, which is the closest one {yep, I’m Italian, but I think the English adaptation is still the best in terms of localization and conversations’ management}]):

- The very first thing he says to Cloud, when he blabbers "You're not real...You're...dead.", is the trolling (and perfect) "I am?"...I mean...has he ever really been? Cloud's words implies (because this is Japanese) that you might also read it as "This is just my PTSD fucking with me, you're a memory".

- Aaaand which line hits you like a truck? "I will never be...a memory." (last line of Sephiroth in AC before smiling and disappearing)

- Last Sephiroth's line of the cutscene, which in English is a very uncospicuous (but very menacing, almost Itachi-like) "Hold on to that hatred.", in Japanese is "Never forget me." That's pretty different.

- Aaaand which line hits you like a wrecking ball again? Never forget me..."I will never be...a memory."

- While you, old player, are still wondering what the fuck just happened, 'The Promised Land' (AC soundtrack) starts playing...

If all of this wasn't enough to let your plot bunny run like it was on a carrot high, let's talk about the scene in Hojo lab's corridor, when Cloud, seeing Sephiroth materializing, yells in pain and grips fiercely at his left arm. Which happens to be the very same arm that is gonna get Geostigma (Sephiroth's lovely life-threatening plague-ish gift to humanity in AC).

And the three glowy whispers in chapter 18? Have you noticed that they move like Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo, and have the same weapons (one-handed sword, a gauntlet and two guns, respectively)? With a lot less whining, fortunately. Colors' scheme seems to make sense as well: Kadaj should be Sephiroth's hatred and rage (red), Loz his strenght and speed (yellow) and Yazoo the coldness and detachment (blue/green).

I’m leaving the last variable at the end, ‘cause this way I don’t seem a complete paranoid, even if it has been there all the way: the black feathers. The flippin’ black feathers. Which Sephiroth has ONLY at the end of FFVII: Advent Children. Then, and just then. Not everywhere else. Nowhere.

They’re there from chapter 1, joyfully swaying in the wind, Cloud sees one and it doesn’t seems to have that much of a significance, like for new players (meanwhile old players are screaming for their life, looking for cover), and they keep coming up, up, up, up, all over the place. And at the very end, the player sees that gorgeous black wing and they think “Oh! Holy crap, he has been there the whole time.”...and the old players yells “Fuck! He’s AC Sephiroth? We’re screwed. We’re done. This was his plan from the very beginning. Crap, crap, crap.”

This is the game tellying us “Shall I give you dispair?”

All the other interactions could easly come from timeline 1 events, up to the end of the game, and that's okay, because they make you realise that Sephiroth knows shit he's not supposed to have knowledge of at this point. He’s in total control, he has been through the entirety of the game, the sexy bastard.

So yeah, after making his last elegant and terrifying threat to AC's Cloud, our favourite one-winged angel decide to go back to the first checkpoint and retry in Critical Mode.

Fancy meeting timeline 1 Aerith there, in timeline 2, already fucking shit up in his stead. I can see him in my mind's eye, witnessing her intervention and thinking "This is actually really nice!". Since destiny has to be restored, he would have destiny itself playing by his side; he seriously couldn't ask for more.

Do I think part of Aerith is coming back from future too? Yes, she behaves like she knows too much stuff:

- "It's good for nothing at all" when you met her after projectile-crashing from the upper plate; if Zack dies like I hypothsized, this line would get all the more meaning, having her failed to save him;

- When Cloud is on his merry way of vivisecting Reno precisely in half, in English she yells "Stop!", but in Japanese she actually says "No, it's wrong!". How could she possibly know that Cloud shouldn't kill the Turk?;

[short digression over Cloud murderous behaviour towards people (a.k.a. Johnny and Reno) compared to the original game: why not, since he’s been bombarded by splitting headaches, seeing the man (who was his hero and destroyed his life) he killed with his hands very much real (to him but not to anybody else) and messying around, driving him cracker day by day. Anyone will lose their cookies.]

- On the highway, she and Sephiroth have an educated banter, in which she clearly knows something's up with the Sephiroth who's standing in front of them. He's the wrong one. But, at the same time, he's the true one too; He's not a projection channeled by Cloud Jenova's cells, nor using a copy to be seen by the others. So he's not using someone else from timeline 2, he's not part of timeline 2, that's why he's wrong. Not just because he wants to, you know, eradicate life from the planet. Despite him being his true self, the last one existing, he's from timeline 1, so he doesn’t really belong in timeline 2. That's the biggest hint we have about Aerith coming from whatever happens after, together with the next point;

- When asked how the heck she knows about destiny’s crossroads, she answer with a nice "I'm not really sure.". She's not really sure...anymore, due to the Whispers trying to reset her consciousness and memories back to square timeline 1. She says she loses something everytime they touch her.

I imagine the scene of Aerith feeling Zack's death, again, while she's at home, at night, among the flowers, feeling useless, realizing she couldn't do anything in the end: that is gonna be nerve-wracking.

Sephiroth would appear, maybe using Marco's body (or maybe even his own body), emerging from the darkness of the alley. They would look at each other while he slowly walks down the wood stairs and glides over the surface of the pond, speaking while never breaking eye contact, both knowing where and when they really are from. He would probably say, in his soft velvet voice, something along the line of "I told you it was not meant to work. You're playing with powers you're not able to control, and you're destined to fail. I'm going to ruin him (Cloud) and everything else you cherish. You will experience what true despair means (because why not, let's throw another AC reference, shall we?)." A very Sephiroth way to say "You did such a good job. Here, let me help you screw this up more, Aerith."

He would lift from the pond, silent and tall and silver and monstrous, smiling with his jade eyes pinning hers down, stretching his black wing out, towering over her, before folding it around himself and disappear (like in AC), leaving only Marco behind to collapse over the bed of flowers.

That would be a heck of a war declaration.

Last, and least, the final confrontation at the Edge of Creation, a.k.a. Sephiroth ultimately fucking with our sanity.

Paraphrasing his first senteces, ”I’m not gonna die and I won’t let you die as well”, should be the very final hint which shows he’s AC Sephiroth, as he used Cloud’s memories of him to create a core indipendent from the Life Stream (this is how he managed to bounce back); he needs Cloud to remain alive in order to exist himself. That’s why he feels (to the very confused new players, and the grumpy old ones who think Remake Sephiroth is not coming from the future) so obsessed with Cloud now; he wasn’t in timeline 1 until the last part. This would make sense for now to be timeline 2, because he understood how important it is to keep Spike alive and as insane as possible.

Cloud tries to open Sephiroth up like a can using Omnislash, the original killing blow, and Sephiroth parry and deflects it. Smirking, probably thinking “Nope, I’ve already seen this happening before, not gonna fool me twice.”

The bloody "7 seconds till the end. Time enough for you...perhaps. But what will you do with it? Let's see"

Which in Japanese is - 7 seconds remaining until the end. But you're still in time. The future is in your hands...Cloud -

The flippin’ end. Which one, Aerith or Meteor? I personally think it’s Meteor.

The future is in his hands because he was the one shutting down the Whispers with the final blow? Are they really gone this time? I don't think so. The future might be in Cloud's hands, but Sephiroth is gonna make sure to have his strings tightly wrapped around them.

The fact that he appears way more in the remake makes sense because of what he’s doing (at least what I and other people think he’s doing), and it doesn’t make him less dreadful. Not one bit. Cloud’s reaction seeing him for the first time should set the mood for the new players (I don’t know who this big-ass silver tree is, his voice is so soft it’s disturbing, his eyes are making me really uncomfortable and apparently he should be dead, but still scare the main badass character shitless, so I should watch out for him as well) as much as the old ones (Holy fuck, what the heck are you doing here, Seph?! How? It’s impossible [you do realize you and Cloud had the same emotional response, yes?{Chadley pun perfectly intended}]).

Anxiety is not resolving during the game; he’s still intimidating and scary as fuck whenever he comes out of fricking nowhere, creeping all over you.

I think the only one who knows what's up is him, and he's not gonna give anything away anytime soon. He's just gonna smile, drop an emotional bomb whenever he can and flutter away, leaving behind utter confusion and sheer panic.

Is Aerith gonna die? I really hope so. Don't get me wrong: I love her to the very bottom of my heart, but FFVII is not only a story about love, courage and fight against destiny, it's also about loss, suffering and death. As much as I would really like for her to survive, she shouldn't.

Like Sephiroth, she's a singuarity too, and at some point, she will have to met her fate, regardless of what’s happening.

Did they really have to show Zack? Everybody was secretly hoping to see him, nobody could make me think otherwise. And again, this is another surprise effect, recreating that same impact that old players got: “who’s this guy that looks like Cloud and has his sword (and he’s probably the guy Aerith is talking about)?”, while we are freaking out looking at him dragging spiky boi, limping towards Midgar, criminally handsome and very much alive.

New players don’t really need to know more, because that’s exactly what we knew back then.

As for Sephiroth’s presence in the game. In the original, he appears way later. Here, it’s conceptually the same; he’s there because of Cloud (mind, body/cells, memories) and the copies. He’s the real, complete one only at the very end, that’s why One Winged Angel is playing only then, and it’s just a faint presence here and there, merged in previous tracks (interestingly, it’s also the very first musical phrase we hear in the gameplay, and I think that’s because Aerith sensed him coming from somewhere. It wasn’t because of the whispers, I think it was because of him).

Same for Sephiroth’s backstory, which is none existent, for new players: that’s okay. you see him, you get that he’s unhinged and awfully strong. He’s a cold, collected bitch and he’s clearly plotting something.

That’s okay, it’s enough for now, they’re gonna get the rest in the next rounds. And boy, do I dread that day, ‘cause that’s gonna hurt.

Am I forgetting about Stamp? Of course I am. Not.

Barret stated in chapter 5 that Shinra changed the breed for the military propaganda, and that’s okay. We saw his graffiti, and he’s a beagle. In Zack’s scene, an empty chips bags flies around, clearly showcasing a different Stamp, a terrier of some sort. With a big-ass “Original“ claim in the top left corner. This might mislead you to believe that you’re looking at a different timeline.

Well...too bad the very same bag is laying on the table of Jessie’s parents...

The hint has always been there: Original. Barret said they changed the breed form the original one...so, yeah, this might prove Zack’s scene is a flashback.

Is Wedge alive? Probably yes.

Is Jessie alive? Probably yes.

Why Bigg's still alive? I don't know.

But I know that you don't build characters up that way to let them live a long life and die peacefully. Someone in this story is really good at giving hopes and then crushing them in the blink of an eye...

The Remake, as it has been said, is incorporating The Compilation, and it’s evident througout the gameplay, from Before Crisis all the way to Dirge of Cerberus and the novels (Leslie and Kyrie come from those. Still waiting on Evan).

I don’t think it has been made to rewrite nor modify FFVII, but to create a definitive end which organically weaves within it.

The story is still alive, kicking, and is the very foundation of the remake. You still have to play the compilation to have the ultimate understanding, because that is the destiny trying to be defied by Aerith and Sephiroth.

You can’t try to change fate, if you don’t have one to mess up with in the first place.

Lastly, if Zack will ever be playable at some point, I hope with all of my heart and soul to find myself beating the ever loving crap out of someone with a white and blue parasol.

*End Of Rant*

I'm forgetting something for sure, but well, this is the majority of the stuff that I needed to get out of my system.

If you managed to reach this point, thank you for dealing with me and my madness.

If you want to share your thougths you're very welcome to do so, as long as you can articulate your opinions in a civil discussion.

Have a good day/night.

Finger crossed for 2023.

#ffvii remake #ffvii #ff7 #ffvii compilation #ffvii theories #let's see #this may hurt #like really bad #ffvii spoilers #i warned yall

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less-than-hash · 4 years

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Point(s) of No Return

I finally got real internet in France, so the first thing I did was purchase Final Fantasy VII Remake.

A few days and 10 million Cura spells later, I finished it. (Term used loosely. I got to the credits.)

It’s fantastic in many ways: gorgeous, obviously (I didn’t experience any of the texture issues (beyond some occasional pop-in) that others have complained of); charming and funny; deeply stylish.

I never knew how much I needed more Moulin Rouge in my FFVII.

I’m perfectly comfortable with what the ending did, though I’m not wildly impressed by the execution. And I’m excited for what comes next while holding considerable reservations about how it’ll be handled.

I also found it an incredibly frustrating game in a lot of ways: every time FFVIIR surrenders camera control to the player, for example, you can feel the game’s resentment; there’s a fair amount of repetition of spaces that doesn’t serve the action; while a lot of people seem to like the combat, I found it pretty messy, inconsistent, and frustrating (though loads improved from FFXV), to the point that I turned down the difficulty towards the end just to spend less time fighting battles.

But none of that’s what I’m here to talk about today. I instead want to discuss a suite of specific design decisions that, in my opinion, really hampered the narrative flow of the ending of the game.

SIGNIFICANT SPOILERS under the cut.

Many games, especially RPGs or other games with open worlds, display a confirmation UI or impress upon the player through dialog (or both!) that the player has reached what we’ll be calling a Point of No Return.

Though sometimes awkward to experience, this is a Very Good Thing (tm): it lets the player know that they’re about to depart the meat of the game for its conclusion and that if there’s anything they’d backburnered and want to take care of, now’s the time to do it.

Theoretically, this also allows the developers to pace the ending of their story in a way that builds towards a climax, something that’s otherwise difficult to do in an open world game due to the player’s nigh-complete control over the pace of play.

And while FFVII:R is by no means open world, it has some open world elements, especially towards the end of its second act. It’s no surprise that it fires the expected Point of No Return bulletin.

But later it does so again.

And again.

The first of these is frustrating for a number of reasons, not least of all its dubious accuracy.

When the characters decide they’ll go after Aerith at the beginning of Chapter 14 (IIRC), the game suggests that doing so will instigate the endgame. This is not true.

What this moment actually serves to highlight are a bevy of new sidequests. Thing is, there should almost certainly NOT be a bunch of new side content dropped on the player at this point. Not because that content is bad (some of it is quite nice), but because the game has just significantly increased the stakes and the pace of its main narrative, and taking time to futz around the slums looking for things to do dramatically undermines that pacing.

I’m not suggesting that this content shouldn’t be there at all - if the player takes time to explore and find sidequests, it’s nice if there’s something there to reward them; otherwise the world might feel empty and unreactive (to the massive tragedy that just occurred). Alternatively, this content could have been placed between (or before) saving Wedge and deciding to go after Aerith (in the period of the game that’s actually focused on the fallout (no pun intended) of the Sector VII Plate).

But having the game beat the player over the head with it right after saying “we’re gonna go storm Shinra now!” (and using Tifa, a character almost as invested in saving Aerith as Cloud, as the mouthpiece to do so) strains character verisimilitude and kicks the legs out from under the story.

But I suppose that’s kinda her bag.

The second Point of No Return comes after returning from, er, the return to the sewers.

This is the actual Point of No Return from the open(ish) world, and the game does a very good job of stating both explicitly through UI and dialog that that’s the case (while going so far as to justify it in the fiction). Had it not been for what came before or after, I’d’ve said “well done” and been on my way.

(I could be wrong here - it may be that some of the Chapter 14 sidequests close off after the return to the Sewers, but if that’s so, it doesn’t seem necessary. Certainly one of those sidequests requires the player to do the return to the sewers, making that initial Point of No Return warning misleading.)

The game then progresses into its Final Dungeon, a sequence at turns confounding and at others fun and impressive. A few hours (and sixty flights of stairs) later, Hojo traps you in his lab and makes you jump through hoops to get out. I have a lot of issues with this section in general, the one most germane to this conversation being the obliteration of the pacing. The game has quite literally told the player to “get to the choppa,” but instead throws them through a pretty low-stakes series of trials without much sense of pressure from time.

Like this, but forever.

Still, the designers manage a couple of tricks towards the end of this sequence to ramp the energy back up (Red XIII’s fall, the big fight with the blade fish).

Then you hop in the elevator, realize that Jenova’s missing, find a trail of alien goop to follow, and make your way to the exit...

Only to hit Point of No Return #3: This Time, For Reals Though.

I like this one as a teaching example, because it’s very clear what the intention is and how it might tweaked to flow a bit better:

What the devs needed to accomplish, in no particular order:

Let the player know that they’re leaving the more open area of the Shinra Building. (Or possibly just Hojo’s lab... you might not be able to backtrack to the lower floors. If that’s the case, I’d argue for cutting this Point of No Return entirely.)

Set up the encounter with Jenova in the next space.

Raise the tension and the stakes. Jenova is clearly an entity of horror. Horror is about tension.

How FFVIIR approached this in the shipping game:

The player finishes the lab area’s final fight, the two parties are reunited, and they take an elevator to Jenova’s tube in the central lab.

Player finds Jenova missing.

Player locates elevator to Shinra’s office.

Game produces a “Point of No Return,” explicitly telling the player that if there’s anything left to do below, they should go do it.

Player may go looking for new stuff to do (or stuff they left undone), ballooning the time between step 2 and its pay off while dramatically undermining tension.

I’d argue that this flow could have been made dramatically better by setting the point of no return prior to returning to Jenova’s tube.

Like so:

The player finishes the lab area’s final fight, the two parties are reunited, and they find the elevator that will take them up.

The game fires the Point of No Return. This makes a lot of sense narratively, too, because last time the party was up there, Sephiroth was up there, too. (This elevator also goes up or down from this floor - the only elevator in the lab that does so - making it a perfect place in the level to put this kind of choice.)

Player can put off the return upstairs for a time if they want.

Player takes elevator up and finds Jenova missing.

Player takes elevator up to Shinra’s office and 4 pays off without the loss of tension.

BAM!

Anyhoo...

We can play backseat developer all day. I’m sure there were reasons this choice was made the way it was, and I’d be surprised if this exact conversation didn’t happen in someone’s office at some point.

I don’t know what the various moving pieces were that led to the choice that shipped. It’s just not the choice I’d’ve made in a vacuum, because I’m confident in saying that - whatever the decision was made in service to - it harmed the narrative’s pacing.

And that’s something that happens. Development is give and take, and sometimes (often) narrative hangs lower on the priority pole than other things.

The last Point of No Return occurs right before the final boss.

Like the first, I’d argue that this one’s unnecessary. The player’s forced by the level design to pass immediately by the very vending machine the Point of No Return suggests that they use, and there’s nothing else for the player to do in that map prior to confronting the Big Bad. The narrative has made it plenty clear that there’s no telling what’s on the other side of that light.

(I actually thought it was a portal to the ending cinematic and credits prior to seeing the Point of No Return text, and would have been very pleasantly surprised by the twist of facing another challenge. Albeit frustrated said challenge was yet another combat in a system I was entirely over by then.)

An autosave at that point would have protected the player’s experience without interrupting flow.

Like whatever hidden trickery moves Cloud from that hole to the top of the slide.

So to bring this to its conclusion:

Points of No Return, while wildly useful, can dramatically interrupt the player experience and undermine narrative tension. They probably shouldn’t be viewed as an opportunity to unlock a bunch of side content, and they should definitely be placed prior to a series of interconnected events rather than in the midst of them.

Until next time, <3 <3 <#

#ffvii remake #final fantasy vii remake #ffvii #gamedev #game design #narrative design

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