#cwilbur crit

[t4tpumpkinduo]

🪦 and/or 💥 and/or ♟️ for ask game ^-^

🪦 - are certain characters functionally dead?

i'm not too sure whag this means or how to answer i fear OTL so sorrey. i think all characters are have an opportunity to impact things especially because of the limboisms + ghosts. i guess maybe alyssa? especially cuz her bigger tethers like callahan also aren't around much so theres less opportunity for her legacy/memory to be carried. wait speaking of ghosts where are cvik n clazar's ghosts. hope there's not an evil asshole who would purposely keep them from leaving frm smwhere to make sure they don't tell anyone what he did to them. lol. lmao. l

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💥 - should c!niki apologize to c!clingyduo?

i mean i think so? cniki did super scapegoat and try to kill ctommy in a slash srs way and as interesting and well written as it was that's still naottttt. v cool. and uhh. also she helped release cdrm from prison. i donnie think she's irredeemable at all and i don't think she had to grovel but. zero concern abt the fact she's directly assisting a group of overpowered assholes in releasing sm shithead abuser who ruined HER AND ALL HER FRIENDS LIVES so he can run around and do it again is pretty crazy. imo. to be clear ☝️‼️ ilove cniki i absolutely do but like. cmon.

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♟️ - was c!wilbur a dictator for trying to rig the vote?

oiuwhUWGH I'VE BEEN WAITING TO BE ANNOYING ABT THIS. HELLO. OK.

to start, no, i don't think he's a dictator for it at all 👍 i think dictator is a pretty specific thing that people LOVEEE to throw around incorrectly in dsmp discussion. BUT, while he may not be not a dictator, he IS a MASSIVE LOSER 🗣‼️

my hot take abt it is that uhh. i think people tend to have an incredibly reductive view abt cwilbur. specifically in wilburian circles which i've complained abt lots before but. idk the strange incentive to sand down all the shit that makes him interesting or deeper to form this bland, more easily palatable/defendable mush of a character makes me insane in my head.

the reason i bring this up here (and how it relates to my point/the prompt) is: acting like ctommy was solely and selflessly cwilburs only motivation for making lmanberg is. imo. a retcon. if i am to be honest w you. because it's Not Textually True.

like yes, he does deeply, deeply love tommy, that's undeniable. yes, he clearly built it w him squarely in mind but it was also for everyone! lmanberg was a family! his literal actually son lived there. they all loved eachother, they wanted a place for themselves. and it was Also for power and Also sticking it to the man!! (And completely justified to be clear!! he was being smarmy abt it, of course but thts not a bad thing!! he was 100000% right.). not to even mention the cphil letters and what that entails. and to act like it can only be the one that makes him look "the best" is. annoying.

compare to ceret. if we act like ohhh poor baby eret was just manipulated into betraying lmanberg and that's the end of it no need to dig deeper. man shut UP. IT'S LAME. things can be complex! she was manipulated, textually, of course she was, but she was also selfish! she betrayed the people she loved most, and she wanted the crown, the kingship, he wanted power. and of course, you can't ignore that in a server where power is one of the only ways to achieve security, for both himself and her friends, it makes total sense tht she would go for it! it can be multiple things.

another example i'll use is uhh election era q to narrow it down. during the election arc, he super wanted to help people!! he was earnestly pitching that they wouldn't need an iron fist bcs they could just all learn to be niceys to eachother. he really took what ppl said to heart and wanted to make lmanberg the best it could be, away from someone who he thought would abuse his position and WAS abusing his position. and he was also a HUGE TOXICA CUNT. he stabbed people and shot them and was a huge bully, and more often that not was encouraging and participating w cschlatt's more assholey actions when he also. an asshole. because they both are. 😭 q wanted power. again, power = security in the dsmp. so you can rlly understand his throughline. while also going hey, shooting people with horse tranquilizer is also super his own stupid evil little choice. things can overlap.

so to the ctommy is cwilbs only priority there line. if it's all for him. if he secures the country at the expense of two of his little brothers lives.

for the lack of better term, why does he leave it up for grabs for his ego.

there's no power to secure at that point. they won. there's no thing he needs to overcome right now, there's no current threat. (to be clear cdrm is always a threat but at the time no one is really aware how far he's willing to go and the seeds he's planting) and again, i understand that he was paranoid, and wanted validation, but point blank canon this is a fully lucid bad decision.

and even then, if you wanna say ohh well maybe he didn't realize smone could stop him maybe he never realized smone would intervene. that's still. annoying and bad. 😭. to not even give the people the chance? i don't think it's irredeemable At All but it's purpose in the narrative is undoubtedly short sighted and selfish.

even Then, he had another chance to bag it smhow. and he fumbled that too!

(pretty good breakdown of what i will be adressing can be found here, w timestamps -> https://www.tumblr.com/stellocchia/661878977008467969/stellocchia-thespoonisvictory-s1-elections)

in the convo, cwilb offered cq the opportunity to do a coalition w him. his offer is they pool their votes together and whoever gets the most votes in between them is allowed to keep the whole country.

cq calls him out, rightfully, and goes hey man. you can act like you think i have a fair shot all you want but you are out of your dome if you think people will somehow vote for me more than they'll vote for you.

cq even tries to compromise when wil falters, and say why dont we split power and run it together. and wilbur tells him NO‼️ even if you believe that cwilbur believe that cq loves lmanberg, which i do, and even if you believe it when he says that he would be ok w it in q's hands, which i don't considering he refuses to meet him in the middle, q Does calls him out for him. he says yr just using me. this is a scam.

and ctommy and cwilb reply 'YEAH IT IS ^__^" like man cmonnnneudhdjk. and that's what makes cq join cschlatt!

so to cut myself off, no. he's not a dictator mm mm, just short sighted and selfish and unwilling to compromise. 👍 unrelatedly does anyone else think it's crazy that in the canonical pogtopia wins au wilbur was gnna jail schlatt after he lost over "commiting voter fraud" (despite cwilb trying and failing to do that as well) and was just leave him there. like. he was also gnna make cq build a second layer of the lmanberg walls and cq was going to leave a secret tunnel in it on schlatts behalf. huh. what. anyone else think that's crazy.

#TYSM FR the question delilah smile this was really fun to formulate #askatraz #quackitytheduck #ask games #cwilbur crit #<- LIKE I GUESS.

[feralsylph]

the urge to write a full blown research paper on how lmanburg shares similarities to jonestown and the cult of personality that surrounds it and cwilbur

#cwilbur crit #research #i want to write it but im about to start a new semester so i have no idea how much time ill have for it

[fagtainsparklez]

y’know what i think is interesting. when c!wilbur has his mental breakdown/spiral in pogtopia, the fandom as a whole is able to recognize it as that. his actions weren’t okay, obviously, but there’s a majority consensus that he was severely mentally ill. he didn’t turn into a villain, or became purposefully evil, he was struggling with his mental health and it took a toll on him and his relationships with others.

but when c!niki has her mental breakdown during doomsday and onwards, she’s treated as a girlboss. a villain. someone who’s evil now because?? fuck if we know, but she’s a girlboss for it. her spiral is rarely recognized. nuance isn’t attributed to her behavior in the way it’s given to c!wilbur, and she’s instead either painted as a total villain or a #girlboss who should be allowed to do whatever she wants.

and i wonder why that could be (/s)

#icarus speaks #fandom crit #fandom neg #by interesting i mean infuriating ^_^ #and yes i know vilbur is a term that exists. for villain wilbur. #but even then most people recognize it stems from mental illness. #cniki doesn’t have that mental illness acknowledged. she’s just evil bc wooo girlboss villain arc #like no. shut up. she was (is) fucking mentally ill and had multiple breakdowns. #she’s not a girlboss. treat her the same way you’d treat cwilbur or die by my hand #i’m also not excusing her actions. nor wilbur’s. but you can’t cherry-pick here #treat the female characters with the same goddamn respect you do the male ones. #misogyny

[quackitytheduck]

I love ctnt but only as a vessel to show how hot cq is like this guy who was a formative part of your past comes back and he sees your glowup and becomes obsessed with you but you're too busy having your own hot girl issues to actually care about him anymore? slay. perfect. everyone should be obsessed with quackity actually

THIS!!!!! holy shit idk how to express to u anon how based and qpilled u r at this time. i really only pay attention to tntduo when cwilbur is 1. in the lore directly 2. nikis birthday party hehe (i really like this one) (its one of my fav streams) and 3. scenes like "i dont think about u at all" like HOLY SHIT!!!!!!! i had to step back from my phone (i was at school) when he said that i was losing my fucking mind YES BITCH!!!!!! YES!!!!! HE DOESNT GIVE A FUCK!!!! hes worried about soo much bigger things than u like. yk. THE NARRATIVE.

i would like to state however that like i said i am only a tntduo when fanon cwilbur is bringing out his inner simpbur likeee. maybe its just bc i love simpbur that lil fucking creep but it really gets a kick out of me EEEVVVEEERRRYYY time

its like. cwilbur was nothing but a stepping stone during the election. absolutely nothing. he was something at the top of the mountain for cq to push the boulder towards. and then once he was vice crimeboys were exiled and he had SO. much bigger problems on his mind than that little powerhungry rat

#asks #thanks anonie i love talking about how much i hate ctntduo #sorry this sounds like cwilbur neg i promise its nit #prommy prommy prommy #i just. uhmm. no i havw no excuse #anywya sorry for not answering this yesterday i was put on post limit for the 3rd day in a row hehe ^-^ <- full of rage #wilbur neg #wilbur crit #c!wilbur neg #c!wilbur crit #<- NOT REALLY I JUST USE INSULTING LANGUAGE FOR HIM #i love cwilbur i PROMISEEE!!!!!!! #tntduo neg #c!tntduo neg

[ctommy]

a lot of the cwilbur crit rn can just be boiled down to "sometimes your older brother sucks and doesnt realize it". i learned this from real life

#txt #is it crit??? idk. the cwilbur meta

[recookerator]

Previous reblog;

The sentiment is. Nice, I like the different view point but I can’t help but disagree… idk, if we’re thinking in terms of the post, there was too much emphasis on the “subversion” part of it all and less on the cohesiveness that kept everything put together. I guess it’s not clear enough to really talk about Wilbur’s intentions with his character since he hasn’t really talked about it himself, but it still feels funny to me; like he was just trying to push this project to the past to focus on other things.

​that and no where in the story did it imply that people become better after trauma.. this story has been about trauma, yes, but it’s also about healing, and that’s where becoming better comes from. And it isn’t implied that anyone “becomes better” either, in fact it’s very clear with the fact that there have been irreversible changes to these people and that they’ll have to work through it with themselves to accept who they are and how to grow past their traumas

Sorry I can keep going but my brain is frying and I don’t wanna sound annoying

#and like no disrespect to that do what you love but eh #dsmp crit #cwilbur meta #wilbur crit #a

[catboy-quackity]

I'm so ignoring the toxic part of the stream and the selfishness of c! wilbur here, the man did wrong but is hard to acknowledge for some reason, i wont fight anyone on it tho, yes c! wilbur is flawed but maybe that's why i like him, he's dumb

#cwilbur crit made me anxious lmao it's the first time it happens #ctommy crit is the one that makes me anxious the most usually #he did nothing wrong ever #and people is so mean to him

[cupcraft]

One of these days I really wanna write a vampire sbi au that isn't just classic dark sbi (no crit just I want different kinds of vampire fics/prefer different fics) like I want vampire comedies. I want exile to Doomsday vampire au, I want to write cwilbur as this Lone Human Guy or even ctechno. I want vampire au drama/period dramas. Like I have so many vampire au ideas! It's an unexplored tag imo.

#my musings #gotta finish my god au chapter and ashes before i can ethically start another longfic wip

[cquackity]

sorry for bringing it up again when its over and feel free to answer privately/ignore me, i just wanted to explain why i find the eret stuff upsetting. i think its fair to think c!eret didnt need an apology from wilbur; thats just not the entire picture of what eret fans see when people go after her for that stream so we might be a little defensive.

i think to me the issue is that c & cc!eret crit cant be separated-- after the apology stream i literally couldnt be on here because people were being so awful about eret and consistently c!eret neg is tied in with people being assholes to the cc. also to me it reads as disrespectful to place all the blame for disliking that stream on eret when wilbur was on that stream, participated, and co-wrote that lore. i have never once had to avoid the dash due to cc!wilbur neg the way i have for eret, and thats pretty telling. not that ccwilbur deserves that, just that its interesting how bad eret gets it in comparison. even the post-utah stream didnt make me as upset as the way people talked about eret did and i am by far more of a wilburian than anything else.

to me, the apology was more for cc!eret for how poorly shes been treated for the last two years and because the fandom treats wilbur (c and cc) like the ultimate moral & narrative arbiter (despite the fact that a key element of his character is being an unreliable narrator); only his apology would make people actually think about how badly eret has been treated. and then it all backfired and everyone was so heinous about it that it was genuinely painful to be on here as a wilbur and eret enjoyer.

besides that meta element i genuinely liked that stream and felt like cwilbur did need a knock in the right direction, as i felt much of the apology tour was an empty gesture that externalized his need for self-forgiveness. not that he deserved to feel guilty or that his apologies were hollow, just that he wasnt going about his efforts to forgive himself in a healthy way, and hearing from someone who already got through it was super helpful.

im sorry folks sent you awful asks (and im also sorry for vagueing, i just couldnt figure out how to lay out my own feelings) but to me it feels really hurtful to see people shit on eret, c or cc, bc shes worked so hard and was the key to a really core moment on the server and gets very little recognition for it from other ccs (constantly being shut out of lore) and from the fandom.

sorry if this is a jumbled mess feel free to ignore it i just wanted to explain a little bit

hello bell! thank you for explaining i genuinely do appreciate your point of view! there is a reason i didn't unfollow you for vauging me lul, i find you to be a reasonable person who has reasonable standpoints on things. but like this goes for everybody who sees this: if you have an issue with me, just send me an ask like this! or a dm. or whatever. i'd also like to think i'm a pretty reasonable guy. i'm also pretty sure i tagged that post with the proper tags to be filtered too? at least i hope i did 💀

first off i'd again like to reiterate that i have literally nothing against cc!eret. i never mentioned cc!eret in my post, i have never posted cc!eret neg before, and the only point i made was that i don't believe c!eret deserved an apology from c!wilbur. i had more good things to say about c!eret in that post than negative. what other people are saying, that's not what i'm saying. i think it's unfair to group me in with people who have/are posting cc!eret neg. at the end of the day even if that's what you've seen that's not what i was talking about in the slightest. regardless of what content creator made the decision to have c!wilbur apologize i think it's a bad one. i stand by that.

nor do i think that it's entirely fair to treat that stream as some sort of meta on the cc!s lives instead of the characters. i've just never thought about that stream like that before, and it doesn't really make sense to me to do so. if either cc!wilbur or cc!eret have alluded to the apology being more for cc!eret i would be open to seeing a clip like that

i also disagree with c!wilbur needing to be "knocked in the right direction" mostly because i think there's several other more compelling turning points for his character post-revival, but i do respect c!eret fans wanting to enjoy a moment between the two of them.

tldr; i wasn't talking about cc!eret at all, and it's unfair to take my words that way when it was never the intention, and not separate them from their original meaning. please separate my discussion of the c!s and the cc!s

#if you don't want me to answer this publicly i can take it down #but i think several ppl need to see it #thes answers #c!eret crit #discourse

[areus-in-a-little-cave]

single sword (phil kill cwilbur one) and double sword (syndicate right thing). Hey areus...(/lh im just gen curious bc youre my cemerald moot or at least cphil moot)

🗡 - Was Phil killing Wilbur justified?

ohhhhhhhhhhhhh okay..................................................... cup 😁 we all like me here right. okay hmmm my personal thoughts on it.

no... but also a bit yes.

not in the like "grr phil's so evil he did a horrible thing and I hate him!!" way or in the "yeahh wilbur needed to die!!" way.

but more just like the "it was not justified but also. yknow his son just asked him to murder him, a country exploded right in front of him, he found out he'd been lied to for months so. I can see why he might have yknow. been a bit on edge" type of way. I think he shouldn't have done it and it was a bad thing but I get why it happened yknow

idk when it comes to lore conversations like these I tend to just think of the characters' morals and thoughts rather than just like. my pov of it.

think of it like this:

⚔️ - Are the Syndicate doing the right thing?

girl what have they even done in canon 😭 they investigated snowchester then became a book club fr I just genuinely think we haven't seen enough of them to say. like literally bring them back to me. they had techno's birthday then dipped

wait shit I forgot about the prison break okay

what were their morals again. hmmmmmm.

yes and no. they're an anarchist group who want to bring down any major government or individual control over a group of people and they have no problem with group run places. so something like l'manberg or the prison vs snowchester

it's very complicated because they do stuff right but they also do a lot of stuff wrong. so I think for them to do the Fully right thing they'd have to do a lot more investigation into the personal affairs of the situation they're dealing with. also maybe help the people they effect by dismantling the systems of power

but like we really just have not seen them do anything so overall I'm pretty okay with them and what they've done from a narrative sense because in universe they have no reason to think they're doing the wrong things. they're all very strict when it comes to their morals too

okay rereading that that makes like no sense anyways I think they try to do good but fall short of it due to a lack of personal connection to the situations they are in. also I think they get unfair crit and neg. hope that helps.

#areus rambles #ask #ask game #ask box #thank you for the ask! #cupsmp #mutuals tag!!!

[nansensus]

Okok I watched the recent lore stream... oh god where do I begin

Sooo cWilbur knows about exile now, that's great news buuut... weeell idk what about the whole nonverbal "I'll fix everything up for you want it you or not" cWilbur thing... that whole stream was so quick paced for me. Like the minute cWilbur learn about what cDream did to cTommy he already had the plan, didn't ask cTommy.. just went and did the thing. I am not going all #ccwilbur lore writing crit unless that will be the way Wilbur and Tommy's characters "heal". Idk if anyone's going to understand me cus I'm not sure if I'm verbalisingmy thoughts right.

Ooh and the "come and dance with me" thing was like straight out of crimeboys healing fanfiction. That was so sweet my chommy

#ctommy #cwilbur #crimeboys #dsmp lore spoilers #dsmp lore

[t4tpumpkinduo]

ctnt for the ask game devil emoji

😈🤘 YESS it's so sucks it makes my skin crawl i dont ship it. hater nation rests for no one.

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Why don’t you ship it?

man because it's bad............................................ because it's not good because i'm tired of seeing it no matter how much i blacklist things. everyday i log on and see takes and portrayals so awful and strange and ooc it makes me take genuine pause. who even are these characters anymore i'm asking seriously. completely unrecognizable in the service of the lamest blandest version of a ship ever. the "white fave"ification of wilbur tht notoriously makes my blood boil and the fucking constant racism against cq jesus christ. tht gets in the way too lol!!

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What would have made you like it?

WELL my dark secret is i actually think ctnt is pretty good. in a Vaccuum. if i think of the cwilbur in my head i do get considerably less angry, it's just always tamped down by so much of the gunk around it.

if cq was treated differently and not like an object but a person with opinions and rightful reasons to be angry. if cwilb was treated like a person with flaws and not a sanded down uwu baby ant w rutsack. if the final streams didn't make me want to grab cwilb and like. spin him at mach speeds and swing him directly into the sun. maybe someday in the future i will be able to set stuff aside but rn i'm constantly surrounded by those awful aspects that set me off and there's no sign of any of tht changing so. the despiser i remain 🗣‼️

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Despite not shipping it, do you have anything positive to say about it?

i do think some of their back and forths are pretty good :] the parallels the l'manbergisms the comedy the desire to prove and be recognized. even the lnv bitchiness was pretty fun until people started lying abt all of it. again, i don't think this ship is awful at it's core i just think it's like. a little ruined for me at this point.

#huri.txt #askatraz #quackitytheduck #ask games #tnt neg #cwilbur crit #<- jic

[fagtainsparklez]

c!techno and c!wilbur will be like “i was as clear as possible about my intentions during pogtopia” meanwhile c!niki is standing behind them with a metal bat and a thirst for blood

#icarus speaks #ctechno crit #cwilbur crit #idk why i got to thinking about this #but yeah #niki only found out wilbur’s plans by accident bc he didn’t realize she was listening #and techno literally never told niki a crumb of his ideals despite training her #why do men 😐😐😐

[othersidedisc]

okay finally actually watching cwilburs apology to cfundy. bestie you know you're not supposed to say "augh this is so hard :(" when you're apologizing to someone right. you can see how it gives off the wrong impression right.

#dream smp #cwilbur crit

[embermc]

No but like this bird guy really told someone who literally commit suicide because “everyone wanted him to (die)” that he should just “let everyone heal without him” like. what.

#tw c!phil crit #cwilbur please you deserve better than this dude

[recookerator]

I just wish the Wilbur finale didn’t end so. Negatively… I wish he didn’t finish his character off at all actually because it would’ve been nice to see things slowly get better for him and the relationships that still needed betterment, and maybe the sense of community within the story would’ve been salvaged… God idk. I have such a terrible habit of thinking up different ways the story could’ve gone and getting infinitely more sad that they didn’t go the way I would’ve liked

#plus he still had a mild amount of relevance to the story #cwilbur #dsmp #dsmp crit #dsmp critical