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thegeminisage · 3 years

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So like, I was just thinkin bout Dean n John today and if Mary and him were in the boys adult lives again (as per the latest season,) what wud the dynamic be?bcus John doesnt NEED Dean like he used to so I think certain pressureswouldn't be there anymore but hed still be controlling of Dean and try to dictate or manipulate his independence, right? Like those abuse dynamics don't rlly go away but manifest differently, I'd assume?

YES yes yes yes sorry in advance this is going to get so much longer/more off-topic than u bargained for, but like okay i’ve said before i think that half of john’s problem is that he didn’t have mary to be there and be his “john don’t” person for when he’s being a huge asshole. and it’s actually really wild writing this fic i’m doing rn where they’re all under the same roof again bc now that john has mary most of his REASON to be such an asshole is gone, but it’s already sort of solidified itself as habit. so i’ve actually been having a really wild time trying to figure out where he’d push things and be his worst self and where he’d sort of agree to stow his crap because mary is standing next to him and What Else Matters Except Mary

i like to think that since mary was such a distant, hard person sometimes, that to match that john before her death was someone who was very kind and giving and emotionally available - that sam and dean’s natural aptitude for empathy and kindness, in a terrible twist of irony, came from the person who was arguably the one to treat them with the most cruelty

it’s more fun for me if john really was a genuinely good person once upon a time, not because #johnrights or anything but because it’s sort of an example of how easy it would be for sam and dean, who are also good people, to lose themselves and turn into the kind of monster he was. and they ARE capable of being terrible - in fact, i’d argue that john makes sam and dean the worst versions of themselves. when he’s around, kind gentle mild-mannered sam’s temper is on a very shouty and aggressive hair-trigger, and stubborn determined asshole dean becomes a passive people-pleaser. many times when sam and dean fight, it comes back to the different ways john raised them and repeatedly inadvertently pitted them against each other

and also on that note, i do think, for all that i rage about hating 14.13, that john’s character was done best out of any of them - he was teary and fully prepared to self-flagellate (a form of deflecting guilt by making the person you’ve hurt want to stop airing their own grievances so they can console/reassure you, and we know from his journal john is a master at deflecting guilt) and also he was not at all mad about anything anymore BECAUSE HE HAD MARY BACK

it’s sort of like dean in season 13 - in the span of just a few episodes, he goes from wanting to kill jack and kill himself to being the happy-go-lucky fella we see during the brokebacknatural episode. cas comes back and it’s like a switch flipped - it’s practically a full 180 overnight. john and mary’s love story is as real and important to them as dean and cas’s is to us. so once john gets mary back, yeah, no, not only does he not NEED dean anymore, but the source of his pain (losing his wife) has almost completely dried up. so like.......god what is he even LIKE now, you know? what is he like with sam and dean??

you know how in season 12 dean is talking on the phone to cas and he’s like “please help me i literally don’t know how to act around my own mother”? probably like that, except in mary’s case there was no old habit to fall back on, and in john’s case they do still have their old dynamic of drill sergeant/soldiers

(it’s also important to remember i think that john is only Nice John WHEN HE HAS MARY. if uh for any reason mary takes some issue with his parenting choices and decides she needs a break, i think it’s very likely john would immediately seek out dean to be his mary-replacement again, and lean too hard on him just like he did for all those years she was gone)

but even though john’s MEANNESS is reduced to almost nothing (comparatively lol) when mary is around, i don’t think his levels of ENTITLEMENT would change. that’s a hard 22-year habit to break. like he’ll come back and boo-hoo about how sorry he is about sam and dean ending up where they are (again, this is self-flagellation/deflection) but he’d also feel he had every right to know all about their lives now, what they did when he was gone, a right to tell them what to do now - less in an “ordering” sense and more in a “i know best” sense, but the result is the same. bc of course he would also still think he absolutely knows better than they do even though at this point they’d be practically the same age.

and like: obviously sam would push against that assumption bc he always has, but i think dean would struggle a lot bc he’s grown up and grown out of his dad’s shadow, and he has people in his life besides john and sam now so he doesn’t have to white-knuckle them so tightly, but he also doesn’t know any...other way to be. like when mary comes back. wtf do we do now, you know??

and speaking of sam: i definitely don’t think dean’s going to be the mediator between sam and john anymore. firstly because sam is old enough now and has had enough distance to understand how that all screwed dean up and is not the sort of person who would want to add to his brother’s pain, but ALSO because i think grownup sam would see letting john piss him off as letting john “win.” post 5.22 sam has sort of mastered his anger issues, and he values self-control so highly as a way to cope with his trauma that letting john provoke him into losing that control would upset him and he’d do everything in his power to avoid it. so no more fighting for them, and no more mediating for dean.

so like, to answer your question finally, i think it would probably be like the old dynamic, but less earnestly. it’s something that’s a fallback, not something that comes so naturally anymore. so it’s the same except there’s all these stops and starts and moments where it chafes. and instead of dean stepping in between john and sam it’s sam (and possibly mary) stepping in between john and dean - not because they’re fighting, but because john is always going to be overbearing simply by virtue of their loaded history, and dean’s family would want to protect him from that (i really dug the way they triangulated around him when he was having a crisis in 14.12, so that’s the vibe i’m aiming for in my fic anyway)

[spn masterpost]

#liz answers asks #anonymous #liz watches spn #liz's spn stuff #liz's meta #broken road #i guess #long post #sorry i answered this in the MIDDLE of the night so i'm scheduling it to go up when you're awake and will hopefully see it #br meta

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the-goddess-of-mischief-writing · 3 years

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Okayy you said you liked qs like these so... What do you think would have happened if Lucifer won the fight in season 5? And bonus question, do you think there would have been a way for canon lucifer to actually change for the better? If so, what would've had to happen for that to be possible?

I’m putting my answer after a read more tag, bc this is gonna be looong, so strap yourselves in...

What would've happened if Lucifer won? Jeez, that’s really hard to say, considering I have no idea what the writers of the series would’ve wanted it to go after that. Although, I think that maybe we would've seen something along the lines of what Crowley mentioned, that Lucifer wouldn't only wreak havoc and plague humans, but also demons and other supernatural beings.

If so was the case, maybe we would've seen a much earlier cooperation between Crowley, Dean and Cas (with the belief he still would be brought back to life). Their goals would've been kinda aligning. However, we would see one big difference between their characters throughout the season. Crowley would do everything to save himself and Cas save heaven/earth from the apocalypse. While Dean would do what he does best and try to save Sam from Lucifer's clutches (now when Luci actually still has his true vessel in possession)

To build further on the last mention idea, maybe we would follow Lucifer/Sam’s storyline quite closely, as well. Perhaps we would witness how Sam continues struggling against the devil and all the things Lucifer would do to hurt people. Further, it would be interesting to see similar Lucifer hallucination scenes here as in season 5, but in a far more intricate way, perhaps in Sam’s mind (as we see when Lucifer occupies Cas).

On top of this, it would be fascinating to see Sam’s trauma afterward, like how would he cope with having seen so many people killed by his hand, etc. Even the fact that people who encountered the devil would just have thought it was Sam Winchester (much like the idea of Demon Dean)

And, to the bonus question, which I find really compelling. Because, even if canon continued to play Lucifer as the big bad, there is one moment I think many of us noticed and reflected over how it could've been a possible waypoint to make the devil less... devilish. I'm speaking about season 13 when Gabriel speaks to Lucifer.

(for those who need to jog their memory, I’m speaking about this scene)

youtube

It's hard to say if Lucifer's reaction was just a ploy all along. However, concerning Gabriel's aloof and slightly "uncaring" attitude towards voicing his irritation about his older brother's old and continuing ways of acting, I don't think it was. They have a special relationship, at least more than the hatred that boils between the other archangel brothers.

As we see, Lucifer actually listens to Gabe to a certain extent, enough to get emotional, at least. We need to remember that the only time Lucifer did the exact same thing and become as emotional, was in season 5 when he thought he killed Gabriel. If this doesn't speak volumes that this was the moment his character could've changed for good, I don't know what else it could've signified. Gabriel outlines Lucifer’s whole arc in such a good way not even he has anything to say in rebuttal. That following silence in the end of the clip is one where he actually considers, I think the closest Luci ever has been, to change his ways. To a certain degree, he also does. He acts better, but we see through it quite quickly regarding how everything is an act to impress Jack and all that.

To give my last personal opinion (as if this whole post hasn’t been my own thoughts), I like that Lucifer remained evil. He was the devil and remained the devil. He had a substantial amount of chances to change, but he didn’t, and I actually applaud SPN for daring to not choose the cowardly way and ending his storyline with smiles and rainbows.

I don’t know if many agree with me, but I think it just would've felt wrong if Lucifer became good in the end. Since it isn’t his story. He is written as evil and is such a good evil character because he has the opportunity to change, but time and time again chooses not to. Not even when he decides to work with God in season 15 does he do it for the good of all, nor to take the chance of getting on his father’s good side one last time. I see it as the last act to show how evil Lucifer actually is. He doesn't work WITH god until god has become as bad as he.

Finally, I’m done with my rambling, sorry dear anon for it getting this long. But please, share your opinion. Do you guys agree with me on some points, or do you think I’m speaking absolute bollocks? I would love to hear your thoughts!

(I just need to throw this in there. I’m a firm believer Lucifer's final death was the most anticlimactic thing I've ever seen. JESUS CHRIST I did NOT like it)

#supernatural season 13 #lucifer supernatural #lucifer spn #dovie answers #supernatural #supernatural discussion #discuss with me #supernatural season 5

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bisexualoftheblade-old · 3 years

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how many wips do you have? like what are they all, and not the number of wips in a fandom? what are all the names?

okay. fuck you. fuck you so much. fuck you.

i’m putting this under a read more cut no one else deserves to see this shit. a lot of these are requests, and for those i will just write out the request itself

Shadowhunters:

domestic polycule fluff with tem, jessa, and will because im not a coward

Supernatural

- hehe hoho i request destiel hehehe

- request 61/? cai cai cai cai i need you to rewrite the destiel scene but yk. GOOD. not like i'm in the know about the spn fandom or anything, it's been years for me. but DO IT

Bright Sessions

- caleb/adam grisha AU

- mark bryant vs. united states aka sue the AM

- caleb/adam college fluff

Umbrella Acaademy

- request 31/? i want a ben and klaus drabble please spare me some brotherly bickering

- AND SO BEGINS NIGHT 4 with request 13/? oooh oooh can i get a raymond and allison playlist??? i think their vibes together would SLAP

- hi there night 2 is technically morning 3 but who's counting not me anyway request 5/? can i get a ben moodboard? gotta rep my tua bb

Percy Jackson

- request 9/? can i get a percabeth moodboard or quote edit?? like god they're the og couple goals take me back to high school cai

- For the 100 follower things :D Jercy getting caught in the rain

- request 29/? a drabble about literally anything to do with pjo. i’ll be happy with anyone and anything i’m love these children

- *somersaults in like I’m a real fancy acrobat* hello ello ello may I request some camp half blood chaos possible involving *does a flip* ✨side characters✨ <3

Penumbra Podcast

- request 52/? drabble about the penumbra podcast. this is for ren bc ren likes it and i don't actually know anything about it. juno? i think? that's the one ren likes. write it for ren

- Tpp ghost hunting / buzzfeed unsolved au

- sad juno smut

- final resting place fic go brrrr

Marvel

- request 6/? i'm going to my roots y'all can i get a spider-man playlist? if not a playlist then i'd honestly be happy with literally anything involving spider-man

- request 15/? i'm going crazy this is recorded evidence of me actually losing it ANYWAY can i get a quote edit for something from iron man? literally anything that man says is gold so cai's choice :D he deserved better in endgame i'm still bitter

- request 42/? do another spidey thing that differs from the other spidey thing

- request 73/? you have Opinions. rant about infinity way and/or endgame. go.

- request 74/? quote edit for deadpool!!

- spideytorch relationship character study

- peter parker as a tired grad student monitoring the young avengers (send help)

Six of Crows

- okay listen i wasn't going to request anything bc i worry about you but also? if you want to/have the time hit me with a playlist for our girl nina zenik

- request 43/? fuckin give me the ending anya should have had. she is alive and with her new son and having a great time

- request 45/? inej moodboard?

- request 47/? will you make literally any meme of your choosing for six of crows?

- request 48/? write a drabble for kaz, my favorite bastard

- okay so i don't actually like nina or mattias that much but i still wanna hear about your thoughts (and also see if you'll change my mind)

- kaz brekker turning 18 fic. birthday party, everyone singing, whole shebang. i need it stat

- religious trauma fic aka i started shipping kaz/alina/inej and i can’t stop

- kaz trauma soup (he has D.I.D. and you can’t prove me wrong)

- my two redacted fics for @grishaversebigbang

- wesper fake dating

- six of crows bright sessions crossover: everyone gets therapy

TMA

- uhh... s1 gang having a nice time? melanie getting to have some Pride™️? some "fun" horror thing?

- request 7/? spare steph and jason bonding? please sir? spare some for a humble child such as myself?

- okay so this was meant for night 3 but i had midterm shit SO this is honorary night 3 let's DO THIS request 8/? i want a moodboard of extremely out of context magnus archives shit like i mean confuse the FUCK out of me i don't go here i know Nothing about it

- request 11/? OKAY so i need tim stoker meeting tim drake now i need my timmy to meet your tim plus i want to see character differences no i'm not trying to create a tim stoker in my head so i can read a's fic while NOT thinking of tim drake whaaaaaat you're crazy

- request 18(i think)/? i need a quote edit of every time within the first like. 15 eps of tam where jon is like “sounds fake but go off” thank u bb

- request 40/? i challenge you to write a tma drabble based only on the episodes i've heard. i'm currently halfway through episode 23

- Jon being lovingly bullied into taking a break. I'm aware this has been written a million times but it is one of my favorite things.

- spiral!sasha AU

- extinction martin go brrrrr

- high school era timsasha. they've both been friends for years, and everyone always asks when they will be a couple. they decide to fake date, to prove everyone wrong and show what a bad couple they would be. turns out that's a bit trickier than they thought

- after sasha comes back, tim is broken. he can't let go, scared that if he looks away for even a minute he'll lose her again. sasha suggests shibari as a way for him to give up control

- sasha pov mag 19 au, sacrificing herself to save the others, knows that if she gives herself up to the not!them it will let the others live

- this is the "tim finds a polaroid of sasha" trope

- early archives days,, long nights in research,,, clothes sharing,, somft. late nights and falling asleep at their desks warm and safe in the other's presence

- two parts: timsasha as kids, each picking a constellation that is "theirs". just soft kid antics. tim at sasha's grave glancing up to see their constellations

- continuing your job’s a joke (you’re broke)

DC Comics

- TIMSTEPH HADESTOWN AU,,,

- my redacted fic for @batfam-big-bang

- request for you to get a decent amount of sleep? serious answer, dickkori, SAL's Venus

- request 4/? timsteph morning after 👀 mayhaps?

- a concept: nonbinary stephanie brown

- teehee hi mom, you don’t have to do this if you don’t want to, but can i request damian angst for your accomplishments 100 followers?

- hi you can ignore my first request if you want, or you can ignore this one. but bls possibly write some bikini ra’s? -the bikini bitch

- request 27/? jay is asking through me for a jondami playlist but tbh i also want it so win win yk?

- "I don't know how to help you but I can help you find someone who does" with bruce and jason? im just craving bruce being a good day to jason for once

- “I am putting you in time out because you need to understand the consequences of your actions.” with steph and jason as dumbass disaster bi best friends pretty please?

- request 32/? timsteph patrol date!!!

- request 33/? timsteph *gala* date? mayhaps??

- request 37/? tim drake drabble but make it Edgy cai

- request 39/? drabble of a prank war between tim and damian

- joyfire cuddly fluff please? or like just any outlaw fluff if joyfire isnt your thing (feel free to add every member of the outlaws, dont feel like u gotta stick with jason, kori, roy i love them all)

- barbara and robin! jason fluff? bonding over books or something?

- request 62/? i need a drabble about the chaotic trio jason, tim, and steph i'm love them ty

- request 63/? batfam x mcu crossover. batfam meets ironfam. give me ALL the cliches. ALL OF THEM

- request 64/? young justice x young avengers - jay cuz idk SHIT about the young avengers

- request 66/? jondami moodboard pls and ty

- request 67/? timsteph moodboard!!!!!!

- request 69/? HEHEHE kinky 😏 i would v much like a timsteph drabble of the almost first time. does that make sense? like i don't want you to go all the way NSFW cuz i know that's against the rules and i'm a rule follower. but like they *almost* go all the way. this could be fade to black or some shit i don't care just make it a lil steamy and have Fun

- i request damian angst! all of it

- hmm... maybe i request? jondami?

- mayhaps,,,,some batfam,,,,,committing crimes? ily be gay do crime <3 - lu

- How about a ficlet with Steph and Cass?

Found Family Bingo Prompts

- no powers au

- tunnel

- first day

- join the club

- hurt/comfort

- experiment

- playing favorites

- hold on

- possession

- 10 o’clock

- singing

- road

- snitch

- curfew

- timer

- fantasy au

- zombie au

- dreams

- campfire

- are you okay

- movie night

- games

- scared

Miscellaneous

- a request: Write A Drabble, Coward

- is it too late to request a moodboard for me?

- request 20/? i’m going off book because i’m in a Chaotic Mood™️ can you just absolutely vibe check me like go off cai demolish me

- request 21/? i formally request that you pick a favorite cai. i don’t care what that favorite pertains to, just pick a favorite something

- request 23/? roast me

- request 24/? can i have a buzzfeed unsolved spoopy playlist but spoiler alert it’s not spoopy bc shane doesn’t believe does this make sense it has been a Day™️

- request 25/50 i want a jake and amy fic make it Soft cai i’m love them b99 is so good

- request 28/? i know nothing about the lord of the rings so make something that will confuse the shit out of me

- request 34/? malvie and jaylos moodboards 😈

- request 35/? a moodboard for the bbb mods!! perceive all of us!!!

- request 36/? moodboard for the tua mods too???? mayhaps??

- request 41/? doctor WHO? idk but i want a drabble of him and the one character i know from doctor who which is rose

- request 46/? make an alignment meme with our group, have fun!!!

- request 49/? i want you to kin assign me a character from every fandom you can/want to. go feral

- request 50!!!!/? this is a special request. the most special request. can you make a bastards tbh playlist? i want our vibes encapsulated. i want us in music form. i want to hear those songs and be like "that's me and cai" and smile.

- requests 51/? i know jack shit about good omens. explain it to me in the most confusing way possible. make me know less by the end than i know now

- request 53/? can you write a mel aesthetic? i'm Curious

- request 54/? give me a list of book recs cai i want some good book recs pls

- request 56/? edit a picture of US together too

- request 58/? oooh can i have a disney edit? like. hm. i just really love disney and i want anything to do with disney. like a quote or an aesthetic or an aesthetic edit i just want disney.

- request 59/? i would v much like a recipe for carbonara. i've never had it but it sounds fucking delicious

- request 60/? ooh hey can i get a makeup tutorial? i know you like makeup, i'm shit at doing makeup. teach me

- request 65/? i need the most emo playlist you can make that vibes with dear evan hansen thank you

- request 68/? i want a superwholock moodboard. this can be serious, with the actual fandoms in mind, or literally what the era felt like. the insanity. the horror.

- request 70/? ooh ooh ooh do you have a good bread recipe?? i wanna get that bread

- request 71/? i want a playlist with the vibes of summoning a demon. please don't ask questions. i don't have answers. and if i do, no i don't.

- For the requests, how about writing something based on a friend?

- request 75/? MMMM i want literally anything to do with natasha, pierre, and the great comet of 1812

- request 76/? i want some healthy recipes. help a girl out

- a feral bbb quote or two?

- you perceive my plant but now I dare thee to perceive mine own visage

- okay this is a two for one request. 1. you did the bee movie script so now we need a shrek two script edit 2. sleep please

- Pansexual mb for my lil queer soul?

- my (probably) final request is just for you to ramble about something, i don't really care what

- HI ILY CONGRATS AS WELL CAUSE IM LATE BUT CONGRATS. could i request a pirates of the caribbean (or just pirates) or whatever you what to do, free range.

- mood board for the beluga whales who got brought to the animal sanctuary in Iceland please?

- 100 follower request: Moodboard for my stuffed cow Oaky?

#cai's 200 #asks #mininacl

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charlestrask · 3 years

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dean or sam for the character thing depending on if sb sent one of them already or whoever u wanna do more 🤠

hiii it took me so long to do this lawl but i will do both since im bored at work

dean:

how i feel about him: what can i possibly say about dean.... he planted himself inside my mind in elementary school and i have thought about him ever since. he checks like every box for things that interest me in a character.

romantic ships: well theres the obvious answer of cas. my position on destiel is that i DO believe in it im just not super invested purely bc i dont really care about romantic relationships. but when im in the right mood i do enjoy them. deancassie of course.. deanvictor.. will i get cancelled if i say deanalastair.

non-romantic otps: john obvs. sam as well i suppose although im not as compelled by sam & dean dynamic as i am by john & dean. deanbela is not an 'otp' per se because they do not get along but i could see them interact forever. OH and tessa/death. 😖 they are so gentle with him.

unpopular opinion: uhhh lets see. i am not that compelled by deans like.. gender/sexuality issues. like im sure they're there but frankly nowhere near as extreme as most posts on here read it. perhaps its because ive never really been compelled by internalized homophobia stories but its really like. the least interesting of deans list of problems.

things i wish happened/were different in canon: okay well 1) obviously more preseries content. i want to see dean like after school special-aged but with better characterization than he had in after school special lol. 2) one thing that annoys me EVERY time i think about it is that deaging ep they did in s10 or whatever it was and how much they wasted it. like. it didn't add anything to our understanding of dean and if you're going to do a deaging ep whats the point of physically deaging someone and not also mentally deaging them it's just BORING. 3) more consistency and focus on his trauma around hell & alastair

sam:

how i feel about him: i think i appreciate & understand sam a lot more now than i did when i first got into spn. im not super invested in him most of the time but when his arcs get me im more emotionally impacted by them than any of deans stuff. i have like a pavlovian response to lucifer rising im in full tears the second any of the church scene plays.

romantic ships: hrm.... i guess ruby? although it makes me very very sad whenever i think about samruby. i haven't seen enough of eileen yet to have an opinion on her either way...samwena IS hot but im not invested in the later seasons enough to like..actively care about them.

non-romantic otps: well, dean and i think cas too. im not on board with all of that sam and cas secretly hate eachother or dont care about eachother stuff. they are friends!!

unpopular opinion: hrmm... i dont really know what the popular or unpopular sam opinions are... i do dislike the sentiment that goes around that sam was like completely protected from johns abuse by dean when like. its established in s1 that this is not true we know it isnt. oh this is more an unpopular opinion about sam & dean than specifically sam but honestly i think an ending where they both die together is less interesting than an ending where one dies and the other is forced to live. but not in a carry on way where we see like the rest of their life. more like a swan song way where it just ends at that.

things i wish happened in canon: much like everybody else i do wish sam had died at the end of s5 or s8 and also that sam had gotten to go more darkside in s3/4. i haven't rewatched s4 recently enough to remember exactly how the show frames it/what actually goes down but i wish sam was like more objectively in the wrong in s4 bc i think him being pushed and manipulated into doing bad things for some alleged greater good is more compelling. and i think that's what s4 was trying to go for but it just ended up like framing fairly reasonable/neutral actions as wrong without actually backing it up. but again i haven't seen s4 that recently.

#ask #antecriste

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soysaucecas · 3 years

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oooh for the ask game 24, 30, and 44!

MAGPIE MY BELOVED HELLO

24. What are your favorite episodes?

The only episodes I've really watched are TMWWBK (which is my favorite episode and I'm certain would still be my favorite if I watched every single one because it has the only SPN character and the only SPN line), The French Mistake (which was funny enough but honestly in the Just Okay category for me, which makes me pretty sure I wouldn't enjoy actually watching SPN if this is one of the funniest/highest-rated eps), and Reading Is Fundamental (my best friend was watching it and asked me if I wanted to hop on Discord, I thought it might be fun to see Kevin's first introduction but instead this ep found the two of us taking like 90 minutes to get through it bc we kept pausing and screaming (derogatory) as the model minority stereotype jokes piled up and up and up... Unfortunately not a favorite even if we got Meg AND the "pull my finger" joke AND the "Sorry" shot). Other than TMWWBK, from clipping and transcript-reading, I like Wayward Sisters (who doesn't?), The Things We Left Behind (Claire!!!! Cas trying to be a dad! The diner scene aka my favorite destiel scene of all time bc being in love just looks so good on Cas! Also the parallels between Claire and Randy and teen Dean and the adults at that club in his story... woof.), Golden Time (Eileen gets to be HERE and be sad and loved and fight people with ghost powers and Cas gets to do a cool speech and a stabbing and do the Asian community a favor), and Lucifer Rising (just immensely sexy on all counts for Ruby, Sam, Cas, and myself). Also I am SO fond of Steve!Cas so I'll add Heaven Can't Wait even if I barely know anything about it.

30. What is an unpopular opinion or headcanon you have about the show?

Ooh okay hm I think. So I adore confession scene, but I don't think the "I cared about the whole world because of you" is like. The Objective Truth the way that most bloggers seem to take it. Cas was lobotomized tons of times before he met Dean, he was described as coming off the line with a crack in his chassis, he's always been the weird little angel who likes humanity too much! I don't think Dean came first, and although gay love was part of what helped Cas invent free will, he *Ruby voice* didn't need the feather to fly, Dumbo! I do think Cas believes what he says in the moment, but I also think he sorta... made himself believe it? This is probably just me deciding that cas-coding should go both ways, but like. I very much crush as a coping mechanism and I very much overascribe my actions to love because it simply seems more noble/poetic to do so. Being miserable because school is hard is cringefail but being miserable because of unrequited love is Good Shit. And I have been in unrequited love with my best friend for at least 7 years (probably 9 but I didn't realize it earlier) and if you asked I would 100% say that she taught me love and defined love for me and that she will be my first and last, but I also know that that is not entirely true; it's just the narrative that I like for myself. And I think that being in an Empty deal contingent on whether or not he LETS himself feel happy would lead Cas to do plenty of mental maneuvering, which I think involved intentional self-poor-little-meow-meow-ification via overascribing his choices and happiness to Dean (and I also think he'd already been doing that for a while just because of personal self-worth issues and because it's a nice narrative). I know as Cas's last Moment on the show it was probably written to be The Objective Truth, but I am perceiving him and I say no.

44. If you could write an episode of Supernatural, what would happen?

Oh scream okay! This is a fun one! I am going to start out with two ideas from other people:

1. Months ago Nate from the pocnatural discord had the idea of an episode from the "monster"'s perspective where the Winchesters are just clearly the antagonists while not doing anything different than they usually do. I think the idea was that all these supernatural beings live in a self-regulating community together and we have one Very Likable pov character who's a member of this community, but one of the newer members messes up one day and kills someone and the Winchesters come on a case and wreak havoc on this Very Much Functioning (there was going to be a whole rehab and reparations thing for the new member who messed up!) system and kill pov character and in the end you just HATE Sam and Dean for it.

2. It's hard to adapt anything from bad moon rising (aka my favorite spn fic) very well because the point of an Arab Winchesters season 1 rewrite is that it doesn't really work with the white characters we have now, but I think I could see a version of chapter 2 adapted as long as Haley (an Ojibwe hunter who lives in the area affected by what Sam and Dean are hunting) takes the lead. I'd especially like to see this section:

Dean laughs, a little disbelievingly. The question has never crossed his mind. “Do you like it?”

This gives Haley no pause at all. “Yeah,” she says. “I mean, it’s not really about killing monsters, though, for me. Or, it’s not always about killing monsters. It’s about community. Not violence. It’s a spiritual thing to build a home, you know?”

“Oh,” Dean says. He can’t think of anything else to say. It has never crossed his mind before that hunting could be compatible with a community.

I don't have any original episode ideas to add to the hunting discourse, so we're on to my ideas about character-driven eps. I think I would like to see a version of my sastiel possession fic (ty again for beta-ing that! you're a real one) as an ep around the time of 9.11 because Sam deserves to work through their trauma, but idk what the Dean plot should be for that. Another thing I would like very much is TFW drunk history storytime (so like. Tall Tales bass boosted), where for some reason they all need to go over what they were doing during Stanford era but each of them is telling someone else's story. It's gonna be either Sam->Dean->Cas->Sam or Dean->Sam->Cas->Dean. It starts out very funny (they all have terrible wigs and makeup in the flashbacks. Cas is Jimmy wearing a giant mask with googly eyes on it.) but as it goes on it gets increasingly sad how much these three don't really know each other.

In the Sam->Dean->Cas->Sam episode, Sam's telling of Dean's past veers wildly between "crushing pussy and killing things" and "feels like absolute shit all the time" and it's funny but Not Right and afterwards Dean goes "I didn't know you thought of me that way" and Sam says "... I am basically reading off the voicemails you left me back then" and Dean has to sit there and contend with the mythology he himself wrote for Sam to believe in. Dean->Cas provides the comedic beats for the episode as Dean awkwardly narrates Cas's Life As A Weird Little Guy who watches trees grow and heals babies and in the end Dean goes "so how did I do" and Cas is like "well actually I was either getting lobotomized or murdering people so like 3/10?" The moral of this plot line is that Dean is bi. Cas gives a fairly faithful retelling of Sam living her trans little life at Stanford and veering between trying to be Normal and being a total weirdgirl and feeling guilty and angry and happy and free. It becomes clear that Cas admires Sam a lot (but also feels like. guilt and some self-recrimination for not being that) for rebelling from their dad and exploring their queerness during a time Cas was still to his knowledge in total soldier mode, and Sam is having an a_good_soldier's Thesis 5 moment about how she failed the kid she used to be and how very sorry they are about all the things that happened to them, and Dean hates that this is the first he's hearing about so much of this but is also quite emo about the parts where Sam is struggling. The ep ends with them all in the same room not looking at each other and not knowing if they want to group hug or never talk again.

Dean->Sam->Cas episode is similar but the storytelling dissolves a lot faster as it becomes clearer way faster how much their own emotions are getting in the way. Dean is upset that Sam could leave their family so easily and probably swing a normal life, Sam keeps wondering what it would be like to live millennia just KNOWING that you were right and good and clean, and Cas is gay and veering between fitting Dean's life into a larger Righteous Man narrative and just being very tender (and sad and angry) about Dean's pain. Episode ends in a rather cathartic shouting match where they all end up apologizing to each other for many things.

Oh also I would like to see Cassie again but I don't have an episode in mind there. Also would love to see Kaia adjusting to life in Sioux Falls and befriending the others and dealing with Bad Place trauma.

tysm for the questions sorry for taking so long!

(ask game)

#ask #long post

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helianthus21 · 4 years

Text

Heli’s Fix-It Rec List

So a while ago I was asking for some fix-its for the Casifer storyline and got some amazing recs. And because they were all so good for my bitter heart, I decided to compile a list of spn fix-it recs by the season. The hashtags give info about whether the fic is gen or has a ship (which would be Destiel bc. you know me) and what issue the fic is trying to resolve or fix, as well as other things that I thought should be mentioned.

Here we go:

Season 8

A Room Of One’s Own by NorthernSparrow All Dean wants is a little privacy. Cas doesn't understand.

#destiel #explicit #post-s6 guilt #closure for godstiel

Season 9

Human Perspective by skydark Post 8x23 AU. After the fall Dean realizes he's not trying teach Castiel to be human for purely selfless reasons; he hopes to gain something from it, too.

#destiel #human!Cas #endgame angel!cas #trueforms #team free heaven

There Are Many Things by imogenbynight In which Dean and Castiel learn, through trial and error, how to be together.

#destiel #9x03 #human!cas

My heart is beating from me by Enochian Things (Salr323) After Rexford, Castiel tries to live a normal life and Dean tries to let him go... But nothing’s ever that easy.(Canon divergent from s9e06 “Heaven Can’t Wait”)

#destiel #human!cas #Daphne Allen #suicidal thoughts

Forgotten by NorthernSparrow Sam and Dean are working a case in Wyoming, but are distracted by news of a dangerous angel called "Castiel" who they can't remember ever having heard of before. The name seems a little bit familiar, but neither of the boys is sure why.

#gen fic #team free will #amnesia #human!cas #you will cry ur eyes out #i’m not kidding

Flight by NorthernSparrow Sequel to Forgotten. A/U from mid season 9. Castiel is human and wounded, and Dean and Sam need to get his grace back - and his wings. Things do not go as intended and Cas faces a difficult road.

#destiel #team free will #wing fic #suicidal thoughts #Sam/OFC #you will sob

Season 10

Playing With Fire by aini-nufire When Charlie unearths the Book of the Damned, she draws the attention of the notorious Styne family, who will stop at nothing to get it back. And even with the help of an angel and a phoenix, the Winchesters might have bitten off more than they can chew…

#gen fic #Charlie lives

The Forever Crown by whichstiel Charlie's back on earth after being dead for over a year. As she investigates her mysterious resurrection, something lurks near her old Michigan stomping grounds.

#Charlie lives #Charlie/Gilda

The Most Important Thing by NorthernSparrow Jimmy Novak remembers nothing of the last six years. Reunited with his troubled daughter Claire, he's struggling to raise her on his own. The most important thing is to make Claire happy. But why does he keep having these dreams of wings, and of two men in a black car? (Canon-divergent from S10E11, when we first met Claire again and Dean was still struggling with the Mark of Cain. Takes places several months later).

#destiel #amnesia #team free will #Cas & Claire

Season 11

What is Hidden, What is Seen by ExpatGirl The Darkness has descended, and Castiel must make a choice. What, in reality, is the nature of Free Will, and where does love end and self-effacement begin? And why didn't Castiel know about the Mark of Cain and its relation to The Darkness in the first place? This began as a one-shot called "The Hanged Man" and has turned into...something else.

#destiel #s11 rewrite #Charlie lives #Hannah lives #Cas deserved better #trueform

Pieces by Castiel_For_King Castiel switched places with the Devil to give the world one last chance. Almost a year after taking his place in the cage, Sam and Dean finally manage to get him out. Unfortunately, some pieces got left behind.

#post-casifer #trauma recovery #wing fic #team free will #temporary amnesia

There’s An Angel In These Woods by Castiel_For_King "It had hurt, Dean remembered. It had hurt deeply whenever he would snap out of worry or raise his voice in frustration and Cas would shrink away from him with fear flashing in his eyes and move instinctively towards Sam – where he felt safe, away from the threat, away from Dean. It was that – seeing Cas looking at him like he was the dangerous thing that made his wings tremble and spread – which had been the driving force behind Dean’s quest to temper his ingrained reflexes and make an effort to act less like…well, a hunter. Because he’d only just recently learned that it made Cas feel like prey. Even if the angel didn’t understand what it was that he was feeling."

#destiel #post-casifer #trauma recovery #wing fic #team free will #Jesse/Cesar

Favorite Son by aini-nufire Coda to 11x18: Amara's plan to get God's attention works.Now with follow-up chapter after 11x20

#post-casifer #gen fic #team free will #Chuck & Cas

We Band of Brothers by LadyWallace S11 AU—Amara must be defeated, but Sam and Dean can’t do it alone, thus some unexpected help arrives in the newly resurrected archangels. But figuring out how to save Cas and Lucifer from Amara and creating a trap that will hold her might be too much to handle. Will they survive the final fight, or will the world fall into Darkness? Gen-No Slash

#gen fic #casifer #team free will #angel brothers

Three Angels Walk Into A Bar by 29-pieces Lucifer can't take on Amara by himself. Michael is useless, but there's another archangel that he might turn to - one who is none too happy about his big brother parading around in Castiel's body. Oh, or that whole thing where Cas is being tortured instead of left alone. Even if they beat Amara, how are they supposed to rescue Cas when the Devil holds all the cards? S11 AU

#gen fic #casifer #team free will #angel brothers

Season 12

The Choice by aini-nufire Post 12x19 “The Future” - It takes them a year to find Cas.

#brain washing #gen fic #team free will

The Sum Of My Regrets by procasdeanating “A quick trip to the past, that’s all. Look Cas, I know we can’t do anything about all the innocent people getting into the crossfire of our battles, but this I can do. Let me rescue this child and give Lily Sunder back her life. What can possibly go wrong?” In which Dean Winchester travels through time, learns a thing or two about best laid plans and falls in love with an angel – all over again.

#destiel #minor character undeath #cas in a female vessel #Lily Sunder

#spn #fic rec #fix-it fic #destiel #gen fics #charlie lives #hope sb appreciates this as much as me^^#casifer #godstiel #brainwashing #cas and claire #human!cas #angel!cas #9x03 for ts #chuck and cas #depression #happy ending #which all of them have obviously #this took me way too long haha i forgot about it tbh:'D

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nyxelestia · 7 years

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1 My interpretation/headcanon on 6x1 if you are interested (sorry for my english). First, they're in the parking lot bc of the boy who said strange things and boy's memory, and we can see Scott is worried what going on as well after he see it. Nothing says they're here bc Stiles asked them to come. Malia and Lydia used their senses and not interested enough to look for more,but Stiles' intuition tells him boy's story is too weird so he stays longer, and he and Scott see smth strange in the end.

2 Next day Stiles is ready to go solve a new mystery and Scott would have gone to an abandoned house with Stiles after school even without him showing a blue glass bc why not, he is curious too, just worried about school. So nothing in this particular case in 6x1 tells me that Stiles is paranoid and his friends are patiently listening to his worries, it's just Stiles' intuition and his enthusiasm, and Scott and Stiles are being normal friends like it always was.

3 Now, about what Lydia said. I'm not sure what she meant by dragging out of bed, maybe Stiles calls her in the morning before school and asks if she's feeling someone's death, but likely Stiles asks her to go at the crime scenes with him since he knows about all accidents (he chooses most suspicious and ignores boring ones). So I think Stiles is not right or wrong these times 3 months simply bc he didn't really thought these were all supernatural threats in the first place,

4he just wants to check IF they are (as if he made it his job) with Lydia's help, like she's "supernatural metal detector".And Lydia agrees bс she can help and she loves solve cases just like Stiles and she likes spend time with him,just 3 months maybe a bit too much bc nothing happens and she seem like doesn't want supernatural anyway(unlike Stiles).And Stiles wants to check it bс his father "can't help if it's supernatural"(Stiles wants to tell him it's not his department right from the start)

5 and he wants to help the police and he likes to solve cases and it not bc he sees threats everywhere,more like he wants to know if threat is spn so they can solve it. And also possible the sheriff asks him to check crime scene/evidence, as we see that he calls Stiles once smth strange happens, and Stiles' reaction to his call "They need us" like he knows what is about. And we know by the end of S5 their relationship has grown and the sheriff welcomed him in law enforcement. Sorry this is long)

Hey, nonnie - no worries! I love long meta. ^_^ Sorry for taking so long to respond, I hope you still see this!

Anyway, in all this discussion about the first episode of Season 6A, I think a lot of people forget what happens in the last episode - Scott and Stiles realizing that this town will always need protecting, even if it's not from them.

This goes all the way back to 3B, when Derek told Scott that Beacon Hills had always had someone around to protect it - that it used to be his mother, but now it was on them. Derek was passing on the metaphorical baseball bat torch to Scott - which in turn he shared with Liam, who had his own pseudo-alpha narrative in 6A. Liam also learned to step up, take initiative, and make/accept sacrifices to become a protector and leader in his own right - which is why Stiles passed on the literal baseball bat to him and Mason.

Lydia accuses Stiles of wanting something supernatural to be happening, because then that's something he can deal with. I don't think it's fair to say that it's that something, that Stiles just wants to be needed by the down and wants it to be a supernatural problem so that he is needed. But she does have a point about him seeing supernatural problems anywhere and everywhere.

Stiles' arc is being fed into by three factors:

1.) Paranoia - he's always been an at least slightly anxious, and always been suspicious of everyone. Seasons 5 and 6 basically turn this up to eleven, largely because of...

2.) Trauma - all these kids have been through hell and back (that was literally the tagline of Season 5B). They are all traumatized, but that trauma manifests in different ways, and in Stiles, that way is paranoia, anxiety, and universal suspicion. This is in large part because of...

3.) Law Enforcement Background - Stiles is a cop's kid, and getting ready to become a cop, himself. It's in Stiles' nature to get his interest piqued by something, and then go careening down that path to learn more. In the early seasons, we saw this parlayed with humor surrounding his ADHD - i.e. writing an essay on the history of circumcision instead of answering his econ test, or his research binges. It's this same process that drives his paranoia in Seasons 5 and 6 - he sees something, and he follows it. But now, instead of seeing an interest and following it by research, he's seeing something suspicious and follows it to look for something wrong.

A lot of fandom has fallen into this dichotomy that either Stiles is always right, or always wrong. The thing is, he is neither of them, and neither is anyone else.

Statistically speaking, it's stated that Stiles is wrong about these more often than he is right - there are several months in between supernatural problems, months during which Stiles is still paranoid, anxious, and suspicious, yet nothing happens. However, we only ever see him, as the audience, when he's right about something.

Let's reverse the argument, though. Statistically speaking, more of the times than not when something doesn't look right, it turns out to not be a supernatural problem. Imagine, though, how ridiculous the argument would be if someone posited that this means Scott is right, always right, and no one should ever be suspicious or anyone or anything because of it?

It's about as stupid as assuming Stiles is always right, so his friends should always be suspicious of everyone and everything, and should be happy about getting dragged out of bed every week to investigate his latest suspicions.

Reality is a bit of both.

Supernatural problems happen often enough, and severely enough, that despite all the times Stiles has been wrong before (several months of being wrong, over a dozen instances of being wrong vs a handful of times being right), they still come check out whatever it is that he's suspicious of. But, they are also right to not pursue his suspicions of they don't see any evidence.

This, by the way, is how policework, well, works. Cops get suspicious of all sorts of things, all the time. But they're only supposed to pursue or investigate it if there is a reason for it. Most issues with police brutality and police abuse of authority trace back to cops crossing this line too far or one too many times, and being suspicious even when there is no need to be (and then acting on that suspicion even when there is no evidence or reason for it).

Stiles knows this, so he investigates, and Scott tries to keep him from going too far or getting too caught up in his paranoia...but also listens to Stiles, and pays attention, and when there is evidence of something weird, he joins Stiles in trying to figure it out. He's the one who first realized that there was something weird about the attacked car and the broken windshield. He's the one who took a piece of glass to an expert (chemistry teacher) to ask what they can tell him about it, to try and gather more information.

And something else to remember is that all of this is coming on the heels of one of the boys' attempts to help ultimately doing more harm than good (re: the guy trying to steal all those helium tanks). They have very good reason to want to be careful about how much they "do" - but despite this, they still investigate what might very well be a supernatural problem.

After all, this town needs protection - and it always will, whether it's them, their next generation of werewolves, or someone else altogether.

This is how police work, too - they're around to protect a town, even when it's not in danger.

tl;dr - Stiles has been both right and wrong before. He's right to investigate things that cause him suspicion, but his friends are also right in not wanting to go further unless there is evidence for it. It's a system, and it was working.

#stiles stilinski #scott mccall #teen wolf meta #teen wolf #nyxie answers #Anonymous

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trueheda · 7 years

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fandoms; the 100, penny dreadful, star wars, star trek, & harry potter

POSITIVE ‘SEND ME A FANDOM AND I’LL TELL YOU’:note: please use this meme to be positive about all your favourite fandom things !!

THE 100

what character caught your eye when you first watched: john murphy

your first favourite character: john murphy

what is your favourite character now: bellamy blake

describe why you love your favourite character: bellamy is... unique. his character he’s incredibly complex and his history even more so. having to raise his baby sister and then taking up a leadership position not because he wanted it but in order to survive, and then being burdened by the responsibility of it. and having to grow so much, he’s a character we see grown from someone who cares not exclusively but so much more about his baby sister and himself than anyone else in early season one to the man he is today and it’s wonderful, bellamy easily has some of the best writing on the show, some of the best development on the show, and he’s a relatable and loving character to have as a favorite. i don’t see how anyone could not love bellamy blake.

what is some development that you wish they had implemented on the show ( keep it positive ): honestly anything where they explain why azgeda stopped using blood in their warpaint would be great. jk jk no but i actually do wish they’d dove a little deeper with the mountain men, and with azgeda as villains in s2 and s3 respectfully. nia and ontari especially were characters that had so much potential built into them but it was cut down prematurely, ontari especially being a nightblood that was taken from her parents, she was raised by a queen but as a soldier for her a servant for azgeda in many regards, she believes so deeply in the flame and that she was meant for it. the end result excusing the means in which it takes to get there etc. idk man just maybe not having killed them off would have been such a better way to go ?

a ship that never got together but shipped: season one bellamy &. clarke, i don’t so much ship them anymore but i really liked bellarke in season one.

a ship that did get together and wanted it to be endgame: wick &. raven, it really made me sad that they wrote the character off when they fired the actor, i was really hoping he’d get recast, because wick was very good for raven she doesn’t need him and thats 100% true, but he was very supportive of her and he was good for her, and i think that it would have been nice to see them develop further.

what is your favourite season: season one.

what is your favourite episode: murphy’s law.

talk about an episode that was significant for a favourite character: day trip is incredibly important to bellamy blake as a character. i think murphy’s law however is such an important episode for EVERYONE in season one, we get to see for the first time real consequences for the actions that the delinquents do to each other on the ground, the mob mentality that can so easily form in these situations. and the dangers of not having an effective rule in even such a small group of people. i really want season four or five to have a parallel to murphy’s law at some point because it is such a good episode that highlights so much of the raw simplicity of having to survive on the ground.

what is one of your favourite headcanons about one of the characters, it can be canon or fanon: * points at literally all my azgeda headcanons *

if your favourite character could crossover into another fandom, what would that fandom be: bellamy and octavia as the winchesters would be cool, put clarke griffin and eric jackson in grey’s anatomy please and thanks, john murphy in law & order: special victims unit as a victim. azgeda in game of thrones, the ark as part of the expanse. grounders &. mad max

if any character could date someone from another fandom, who would your otp be: ontari and ivar might like destroy the entire world but that’d be hella fun to see come to light ( would be highkey the most unhealthy bullshit ever please never let this happen ). and i already said this for spn but sam &. clarke.

STAR WARS

what character caught your eye when you first watched: han solo

your first favourite character: luke skywalker

what is your favourite character now: luke skywalker &. cassian andor

describe why you love your favourite character: how can you not love luke skywalker. i think i liked him because he symbolized all that is good, but wa still capable of making mistakes and he didn’t let that stop him from being as amazing as he knew he could be. he was himself, that was all that mattered, and i think that counts for a lot.

what is some development that you wish they had implemented on the show ( keep it positive ): i think we deff needed some more anikin x obi wan information ike they kept hinting they were brotps af and never showed us shit in the prequel trilogy and i was like ??? um dudes.

a ship that never got together but shipped: im hoping for jedistormtrooper because i really fucking liked it but i’m here for stormpilot too.

a ship that did get together and wanted it to be endgame: han &. leia

what is your favourite season: the original trilogy

what is your favourite episode: new hope or rogue one

talk about an episode that was significant for a favourite character: rogue one is the single most significant episode ever and i don’t need to explain why.

what is one of your favourite headcanons about one of the characters, it can be canon or fanon: luke having to get over the trauma of having kissed his sister and not being able to look her in the eyes afterwards for like a good year and a half when he finally realizes what happened.

if your favourite character could crossover into another fandom, what would that fandom be: please put cassian andor in the star trek movie verse.

if any character could date someone from another fandom, who would your otp be: luke skywalker x luna

STAR TREK

what character caught your eye when you first watched: spock

your first favourite character: james t. kirk

what is your favourite character now: james t. kirk

describe why you love your favourite character: because kirk is amazing.

what is some development that you wish they had implemented on the show ( keep it positive ): i really want them to go into more info on like how ships get passed along bc i dont htink they explain that at all.

a ship that never got together but shipped: i dont have any tbh

a ship that did get together and wanted it to be endgame: n/a

what is your favourite season: i never watched the series tbh WHOOPS

what is your favourite episode: the first film of the new cast

talk about an episode that was significant for a favourite character: BEYOND was great for spok and krik tbh.

what is one of your favourite headcanons about one of the characters, it can be canon or fanon: james likes to listen to classical music and only classical rock music ( * remember tho that like classical music for them is like 20th century music )

if your favourite character could crossover into another fandom, what would that fandom be: JAMES T. KIRK IN ALIEN PLS

if any character could date someone from another fandom, who would your otp be: spock x lexa

HARRY POTTER

what character caught your eye when you first watched: harry potter

your first favourite character: hermione granger

what is your favourite character now: draco malfoy

describe why you love your favourite character: um can i not ? these are getting long.

what is some development that you wish they had implemented on the show ( keep it positive ): less slytherin as evil peoples please and thnx

a ship that never got together but shipped: draco x hermione, hermione x harry

a ship that did get together and wanted it to be endgame: hermione x ron

what is your favourite season: the goblet of fire

what is your favourite episode: the chamber of secrets

talk about an episode that was significant for a favourite character: no.

what is one of your favourite headcanons about one of the characters, it can be canon or fanon: no.

if your favourite character could crossover into another fandom, what would that fandom be: draco in peaky blinders would be fun.

if any character could date someone from another fandom, who would your otp be: no.

#Anonymous

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elizabethrobertajones · 7 years

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About Destiel... Someone close to me who loves Spn and chat with me and all that but doesn't involve in Tumblr, or fanarts or whatever bc of man stereotypes (those are crap, really) told me yesterday that Dean was egocentric. I was like Are you fúcking kidding me, but he explained that there is a very thin line between hate and love, and for Dean to hate himself he had to have loved himself before, or something like that. I think it's interesting, so i wanted to know your opinion about this

Pfft, Tumblr cooties.

I have to say I didn’t expect that logic to go where it did :P

I think Dean has a lot of anxiety and obvious self-esteem issues, but if I was going to look at him as being egocentric I’d be much more interested in examining his personal relationships than that… I’ve been musing on this while drinking my morning coffee (and sorry, this is going to be a headache & coffee reply :P) and thinking about Dean would ever have loved himself for that to turn into hate by that logic.

I could think of 2 suggestions for how you could get to self-hate from there - the acceptably selfish love he’d have learned for himself as a kid while Mary was still alive (someone deserving of hugs and having the crusts cut off his sandwiches) and would have been destroyed under the burden of having to put himself second or third in the family unit, especially to Sam, once they’re on the road and he’s sort of raising Sam as the stand-in mother from age 4 onwards… Dean suffers from more and more extreme arcs about the loss of self, but the first “version” of Dean is one he lost early on and might have been the only Dean really able to uncomplicatedly love himself and believe himself worthy of that love, even if it’s in that way where to a 4 year old of course they’re the centre of the universe :P

There’s also a more complex thought I had and sorry, this is first thing in the morning for me so I hope I can explain properly… (Also this reply gets really long because of that… Sorry :P)

Looking at Dean’s self-loathing backwards, in how he ever expresses positive things about himself, I’m coming up mostly with all the snarky cutesy comments about how awesome he is and so on, which is pretty much always a great big helping of performing Dean. His self-worth is tied a lot into being a hunter (and he is occasionally sincerely proud of himself there), but overall that’s another persona, and the one he grew up into instead of the happy Dean with a normal childhood who might not have so many reasons to hate himself (Dean in 2x20, what you can gather about his personal life in the dream, is still completely affected by Dean’s own perception of himself so I don’t think it’s good data on how he’d live his life if he grew up with no monsters).

Performing Dean, which that sequence at the end of 3x10 still shows best of any moment in the show, is all (when it comes down to it) something Dean acts under the expectation of what John would want or self-policed by what he thinks John would approve of. There’s an idealised version of Dean in his own head who is basically John or what Dean thinks John would have wanted him to be, and Dean’s lack of self-esteem is sometimes (dramatically) expressed in relation to feeling like he’s disappointed this spectre of John’s memory, and a great deal of his self-loathing comes from falling short of these standards. He’s definitely got better over time and learned to express himself more (by Dean standards) but his progress is always being interrupted, and this is such a core part of Dean I don’t think he can ever completely change it without altering his life in such a way there wouldn’t even be a show any more :P It’s not strictly “love” but it’s an idealised version of himself and also a key part of Dean’s sense of self and at least in the early seasons (before 3x10 let’s say :P) the version of himself he would want to love and live up to.

Anyway… idk about linking any of that directly to Dean being egocentric? I mean, that’s a reading you can make of him, I’m just not sure what part it plays. I should probably say immediately that I think Dean is very empathetic, and so that necessarily means in general he’s putting himself in others’ shoes when we’re looking at generic interpersonal relationships, plus the whole saving people thing, mean anything else I talk about, I’m giving Dean huge allowances here because I do think he’s kind and IN GENERAL puts others first, all the time.

I know I have a tag about Dean being the centre of the universe, but for the most part I treat that as a joke on Dean where he doesn’t know it. On the other hand, the one major major time he exerts that power, in 5x22, he absolutely makes the entire apocalypse about him and his feelings and his need to talk to Sam before Michael and Lucifer fight, and uses that to save the world, so… Idk :P It’s not strictly a bad thing at all on a grand scale? Staying in season 5 for a minute (and sorry, Superwiki is not working right now so no quotes >.>), 5x11 explores Dean’s sense of the burden of the entire planet, and I think you could argue either way that he has an altruistic sense of having to save everyone, or focus on the “but why does it have to be him” thing, about how much he’s internalised that burden and in a way made it about himself. I feel like between his conditioning growing up to save people (and in season 1 he was altruistically the “saving people” side of “saving people hunting things” while Sam was the latter and revenge-focused) and the huge burdens the world puts on him, I don’t really think it’s fair to consider that Dean just happened to absorb this message because he’d be inclined to the idea of the world being on his shoulders, but that he is what the world made him especially with all the talk of Destiny and the feeling like no one else is remotely stuck in the cross hairs like they are. His reaction to being resurrected in 4x02 is skin-crawling horror that he’s been centred out for this sort of attention. When in big plot situations, his response can be read as egocentric, it’s not necessarily a criticism, especially as Dean is usually right, and it mostly gets the job done.

… Dealing with people, though. Idk, then it gets tricky :P Dean’s got a very strong moral centre and he expects others to hold up to his standards all the time. (I just watched through the end of season 6, and for example Dean arguing with Cas after the reveal is asking Cas to trust him and do as Dean says just because Dean believes it’s completely right and Cas is wrong. He doesn’t have any answers to help Cas this late in the game when they’re so deep into all these plans and disaster is looming and they’re out of time to deal with it, but in a way it’s almost like in 4x21 where Bobby’s telling Dean that Sam will die if they keep detoxing him, and Dean yells that at least Sam will die human - better to go out honourably than to betray yourself/Dean’s expectations of you. Being the moral core of the group DOES make it revolve around Dean’s principles, especially as he has a natural leadership to him and he can get used to what he says, goes. Like, in the latest episode, he makes the deal with Billie, and expects it to be about him when it comes to time to die… Mary getting between that abruptly shatters Dean’s centrality there, because the family unit is bigger than Dean and with so many more people involved in it, Mary and Cas hog all the drama of that moment, and in a way Dean only brought it to them. (And Sam, who only agreed to the deal, aside from badgering Dean to talk about it and getting shut down because Dean would clearly not want Sam to be the one to die, is also most used to operating under Dean’s rules and as the assumed survivor in Dean’s ideal scenario for that deal, had basically nothing to do with it aside from agreeing to a sketchy blood pact in the first place >.>)

Anyway watching through as far as I have (just watched 7x03) I do feel like I’ve been watching Dean’s moral authority grow and grow - as a response to trauma and to all the unimaginable situations he’s found himself in. Like the other characters, all the stuff that got them to the finish line in season 5, once in season 6 becomes much more dangerous and under the microscope for character development in a different way as the story switches from being sort of mythical to more about the interpersonal stuff. Dean by 7x03 has been shaken up by the ongoing problems with Sam, and Cas’s betrayal, and monsters that they don’t know how to kill, to the sort of place where his need for control, which was nurtured by all the apocalypse arc stuff by putting the burden directly on him, kind of now is definitely crossing over from a positive to neutral character trait to a definitely bad one… Honestly I feel like him ditching Sam and driving off to kill Amy because he doesn’t trust Sam is the real moment Dean snaps and sets off his arc that eventually leads to the Mark of Cain stuff, or Gadreel, which were all about Dean’s sense of control and his problems maintaining it that all play into his downfall arc as demon!Dean. (I honestly believe he’s so much more well-balanced in season 11 and 12 after all the character development Dean went through in season 10 - he was getting alarmingly zen and full of self-acceptance just before they pushed him back over the edge… although it really needs a long view on it, like, I wasn’t certain for sure until 11x23 about how this was going for Dean, and he keeps doing stuff like these deals so it’s sort of like… he’s getting BETTER I’m not saying he’s perfect now :P)

Anyway when it comes to Destiel, which I guess was the original reason you asked this based on your opening line… I think Dean DOES sometimes come across as egocentric - times when he puts himself or his problems first (the worst example being kicking Cas out of the Bunker). I’ve seen it argued a lot that Dean doesn’t really understand Cas to a certain level of Cas being vulnerable and/or someone he can really hurt this way, mostly because he has expectations literally to high Heaven about what Cas is and what he can do, and Cas is getting more and more human (only sometimes literally) but Dean has a lot of trouble bringing Cas down to his level. That “applications for sainthood” line about Dean and relationships is one of the best for looking at Dean and interpersonal relationships. That mixes HIS expectations (the egocentric side) with adoration and an expectation from others that he projects onto them, which is a much more selfless love but I guess no less dangerous when it comes to people disappointing him, because it comes as a blow to his entire world view. Like in 6x20 where Dean refused so long to think that Cas would betray them. Not just because Dean selfishly thinks everyone should do what he says (which is how it can come across) but because he truly believes those he loves would not do bad things. (Which also can explain his really extreme reactions to the bad stuff Sam does and Dean’s absolute reactions to it. In 4x22 when Dean’s moping about Sam to Bobby, Bobby calls Dean out on sounding like his father, which I think says a lot about where this behaviour in general comes from, again, all the absolutes and black and white thinking.)

Anyway Dean said himself in 11x23 to Cas in the beer run, that he and Sam can get very caught up in their own stuff and forget to care about the things outside their problems, acknowledging how Cas had got a bit left to the wayside. I think that means Dean does genuinely struggle with this - and it’s now finally something that maybe they can really address after it was allowed to escalate so far over many seasons… historically almost every time there’s something wrong with Cas, Dean is slow on the uptake or it comes to smack him in the face he can’t be objective about it and generally makes the situation worse before it gets better (or swept under the rug into the growing pile of trauma Cas deals with >.>)…

Now we’re getting some real Cas-focused episodes/a whole arc, and Cas’s problems are really out there again, I hope that means for Dean getting to face them properly as well and NOT reacting in the same way he often does. If there are far fewer issues around because all the plot has de-escalated a bit, HOPEFULLY that will let him focus on stuff outside himself? Like, though he didn’t react great to Cas leaving afterwards, when Cas actually announced he was going, Sam and Dean chased after him, and it was clear in that moment Dean genuinely was tuned in to something being up with Cas and without any other major problems to worry about that could take priority over that, and was concerned about Cas.

I’m really hoping when it comes to Dean’s awareness of Cas’s issues he’s just had a huge wake up call, especially about how much Cas cares about them all, and while that was all about “the Winchesters” the show endlessly puts Dean n Cas just a little notch above everything else in that dynamic (Dean getting the more dramatic reaction to seeing Cas, sitting with him in the car, being the one to phone him, Sam as an outside observer to that and what Dean did and didn’t tell Cas… Even when all the language seemed to be very generically about the family as a whole, they are still singled out within it…)

But yeah, I’m not at all a bitter Cas fan who thinks Dean is cruel to Cas so I’m saying this out of wanting them to be better than they already are, not like this is a barrage of accusations levelled at Dean for being self-centred :P I try to always follow both their perspectives on a thing because there’s always huge misunderstandings. And sadly when Dean has a misunderstanding with Cas he often lashes out at him, and that also makes it look in a lot of circumstances like Dean is being self-centred, where from his perspective he feels just as wronged by Cas and is already desperate and angry when they start a conversation (still thinking of season 6 and I guess their epic miscommunication in the end of season 7, or Dean’s lack of understanding in season 8 after the crypt scene, which is a moment that piles on a huge mess Dean’s already feeling so he doesn’t react out of the blue to randomly be angry with Cas when he shows up again…) Dean’s kind of terrible all round at interpersonal relationships… I’m very sympathetic to him there so it doesn’t upset me as long as I can understand WHERE he’s gone wrong.

… I should probably stop talking here because I have no idea what you actually wanted here but I have been spewing way too many thoughts at you to no real conclusion… This reply is way too long but I can’t think how to cut it down aside from just not making entire points or not answering :P

#Asks #Dean analysis #long post for ts #erk :P

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