#arianne martin

[randomestfandoms-ocs]

Olivia Rodrigo Edits ✤ Arianne Martin

Guts ✤ Making The Bed: I got the things I wanted, it's just not what I imagined

Tag List: @airwolf92 – want to be added?

#arianne martin #ocappreciation #fyeahteenwolfocs #girl on fire #*guts #*orodrigo #my work #my edits #my gifs #my ocs #teen wolf oc

[alienoryva]

"The eldest child"

Arianne Martell—Rhaenyra Targaryen

[great-granddaughter & great-grandmother]

#arianne martell #house martell #princessariannemartell #rhaenyra targeryan #queen rhaenyra #house targaryen #asoiafman #asoiafwomensource #game of thrones #house of the dragon #george rr martin #targaryen women

[bestofgrrm]

Certain things that happened on HBO will not happen in the books.   And vice versa.   I have viewpoint characters in the books never seen on the show: Victarion Greyjoy, Arianne Martell, Areo Hotah, Jon Connington, Aeron Damphair   They will all have chapters, and the things they do and say will impact the story and the major characters who were on the show.   I have legions of secondary characters, not POVs but nonetheless important to the plot, who also figure in the story: Lady Stoneheart, Young Griff,  the Tattered Prince, Penny, Brown Ben Plumm, the Shavepate, Marwyn the Mage, Darkstar, Jeyne Westerling.  Some characters you saw in the show are quite different than the versions in the novels.   Yarra Greyjoy is not Asha Greyjoy, and HBO’s Euron Greyjoy is way, way, way, way different from mine.   Quaithe still has a part to play.  So does Rickon Stark.   And poor Jeyne Poole.   And… well, the list is long.    (And all this is part of why WINDS is taking so long.   This is hard, guys).

Various characters mentioned in the new NotaBlog, July 8, 2022

#asoiaf #grrm #george r r martin #quotes #notablog #twow #the winds of winter #victarion greyjoy #arianne martell #aeron greyjoy #asha greyjoy #jon connington

[kemihaydeestantonva]

Since the A Song of Ice and Fire community seems really cool and active on Tumblr here's some audiobook practice I did a while back from one of George's winds preview chapters!

#asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #winds of winter #arianne martell #game of thrones #george rr martin #dorne #voice acting #voice actor #audio drama #pls be my friend #i love these books so much #SoundCloud

[maeveknows]

"Words are like arrows, Arianne. Once loosed, you cannot call them back"

#doran martell #game of thrones #dorne #arianne martell #bookworm #george rr martin #a feast for crows

[inlovewithquotes]

Anger was better than tears, better than grief, better than guilt. Someone told, someone she had trusted. Arys Oakheart had died because of that, slain by the traitor's whisper as much as by the captain's axe. The blood that had streamed down Myrcella's face, that was the betrayer's work as well. Someone told, someone she loved. That was the cruelest cut of all.

-Arianne Martell

#quotes #book quotes #literature #books & libraries #life quotes #relationship quotes #george rr martin #asoiaf quotes #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #a feast for crows #affc #arianne martell

[sylvanlore]

Winds of Winter speculations

Cersei, Arianne and Jon Connington:

Oldtown will fall to Euron Greyjoy. Willas Tyrell will have to send forces south to fight the Ironmen. The Reach defences will be spread too thin, Highgarden will be virtually defenceless.

News of f!Aegon and the Golden Company taking the Stormlands gets out. The Merryweathers, Tarly, Redwyne of Arbor, and many other Reach lords will betray the Tyrells and join f!Aegon.

(These are suspected former Blackfyre supporters, and many lords in the Reach think the Tyrells are upstarts, and that Highgarden and overlordship should have gone to one of them when house Gardener went extinct.)

Myrcella returns to King's Landing together with the sandsnakes; Nymeria who takes Oberyn's place in the small council and Tyene who infiltrates the High Sparrow's inner circle.

Cersei's trial by combat. Robert Strong easily wins. The charges are dropped.

Margaery's trial by the seven. Tyene influences the trial against Margaery to remove her as queen (allowing Arianne to take her place) and splinter the Lannister-Tyrell alliance. Margaery is declared guilty of high treason and locked up awaiting execution.

Arianne joins f!Aegon in order to seduce him and become queen of Westeros. Dorne joins the fight on f!Aegon's side.

Highgarden surrenders to the Golden Company and joins their forces in order to save Margaery. The Golden Company, Dorne and the Reach attacks King's Landing.

Lady Nymeria murders Tommen.

Cersei flees to Casterly Rock with Myrcella and crowns Myrcella queen.

f!Aegon is crowned Aegon the VI on the Iron Throne.

Margaery is demoted from queenship. Epic tug-of-war between Arianne and Margaery for who will marry f!Aegon.

(The sandsnakes WILL NOT assassinate Margaery, because then f!Aegon will loose Tyrell's support and start a civil war within the Reach, which will weaken f!Aegon's side.)

MEANWHILE:

Sansa:

The tourney of the Vale. Alayne gives her favor to a Mysterious Knight.

The Mysterious Knight wins the tourney. Harry the Heir feels humiliated.

During the festivities the Mysterious Knight kidnaps Alayne.

Turns out he's Timett son of Timett, the war chief of the Burned Men.

Timett has recognized Sansa from their time in King's Landing. Tyrion promised the Vale to the mountain clans, Sansa is Tyrion's husband and Littlefinger's (pretended) daughter.

Also, Timett is the son of one of the lost Arryn sisters, his mother being the elder sister of Harry the Heir's mother, who was abducted by the mountain clans years ago. Ergo, Timett is higher in the succession order than Harry. And he wants his birthright. (Possibly his mother is alive among the Burned Men, and can vouch for him.)

The Vale rallies to rescue Alayne on Sweetrobin's orders. Harry the Heir intends to regain lost pride by leading the rescue.

Harry the Heir is promptly killed.

Alayne is revealed as Sansa Stark and manages to parlay a truce between the Burned men and the Lords of the Vale.

Littlefinger finds out Timett is another heir (albeit a problematic one) and thinks "Useful!".

The Lords of the Vale are not happy to have the war chief of the Burned Men as Sweetrobin's heir or the Burned Men as allies. But as long as Sweetrobin won't die and the Burned Men don't do trouble in the Vale, let's agree to the damn truce.

Also, holy shit it's Ned Stark's little daughter!

The North is by right hers, she's the heir to the Riverlands (until Roslin Frey gives birth to Edmure Tully's child), and she's a potential bride to Robert Arryn (according to the Vale Lords) or Timett (according to Littlefinger, who moved his plans from Harry to Timett. And this heir comes with a lot of clansmen!).

Epic tug-of-war between the Vale Lords and Littlefinger for Sansa.

Sansa COULD deploy the clansmen to free the captive Northern and Riverland men and lords from Frey captivity. But Edmure is still imprisoned in Casterly Rock.

f!Aegon and Cersei both demands fealty from the Vale and the Riverlands. With Lord Edmure Tully in a Casterly cell, the Riverlands are forced to submit to Cersei. Littlefinger in the Vale submits to f!Aegon.

Littlefinger plans on having Sansa seducing f!Aegon? Some kind of proof/witnesses of Sansa's innocence in king Joffrey's murder needs to be revealed/fabricated so the charges of kingslaying against her are dropped. (Is this still necessary if one dynasty is replaced with another?)

Cersei still believes Sansa is guilty, and is NOT happy she's getting off free for murdering her son.

Sansa needs to take charge in the Riverlands against Cersei while Edmure is imprisoned. f!Aegon travels to the Riverlands to offer his support against Cersei.

Yup. f!Aegon falls head over heels in love with Sansa. Arianne and Margaery are not happy. Sweetrobin (if he is stil alive) is not happy. Cersei is NOT happy. She starts to suspect Sansa is the younger, more beautiful queen.

Lots and lots of more things will, of course, happen. Something with the Freys (pretty sure it will involve Arya and Nymeria's wolfpack, or Lady Stoneheart). Euron Crowseye, Oldtown and Sam, the Nights Watch, Stannis, Daenerys, and so on. But this is it for now.

Also:

Jon Connington will go mad upon hearing the city bells chime (either when the Golden Company capturing King's Landing, or in a later battle). He falls into a well during a duel, and King's Landing is poisoned with greyscale.

#game of thrones #a song of ice and fire #winds of winter #george r r martin #cersei lannister #arianne martell #jon connington #sansa stark #littlefinger #petyr baelish #f!aegon #fake aegon targaryen #speculations #predictions #margaery tyrell #robert arryn #sweetrobin #asoiaf #westeros

[randomestroleplays]

𝔴𝔞𝔫𝔱𝔢𝔡 𝔭𝔩𝔬𝔱𝔰: 𝔞𝔯𝔦𝔞𝔫𝔫𝔢 𝔪𝔞𝔯𝔱𝔦𝔫

multifandom / teen wolf / oc friendly (X)

tropes:

boarding school

celebrity

childhood friends to lovers

road trip

roommates

secret celebrity / royal

secret relationship

holiday fling

friends with benefits

reality show

age gap

fake dating

canon plot ideas:

void ari x stiles

supernatural crossover

buffy the vampire slayer crossover

hollywood

musical inspiration:

girl on fire, alicia keys

it girl, twirl

cherry bomb, the runaways

bubblegum bitch, marina 

white rabbit, jefferson airplanes

i want my innocence back, emilie autumn

carmen, lana del rey

new romantics, taylor swift 

you should see me in a crown, billie eilish

bad at love, halsey

prom queen, mary kate kestner

oh no!, marina

no shame, 5 seconds of summer

sue me, sabrina carpenter

#oc roleplay #roleplay blog #roleplay plots #rp blog #teen wolf rp #teen wolf roleplay #wanted plot #wanted #𝔩𝔬𝔬𝔨𝔰 𝔩𝔦𝔨𝔢 𝔞 𝔤𝔦𝔯𝔩 𝔟𝔲𝔱 𝔰𝔥𝔢'𝔰 𝔞 𝔣𝔩𝔞𝔪𝔢 #━ ♡♤♡ ━ arianne martin #𝔟𝔢 𝔶𝔬𝔲𝔯 𝔬𝔴𝔫 𝔞𝔫𝔠𝔥𝔬𝔯 #⋘ ─ ∗ ⋅◈⋅ ∗ ─ ⋙ teen wolf

[jozor-johai]

Dorne, Shown not Told: how Darkstar is more than his reputation.

Darkstar used to bug me as a character—not necessarily because of his edgy dialogue, but because the way he was written: he's not on-page for very long, so we're really told much more about him than we are shown anything.

I've seen this same complaint voiced before, and almost always it's brushed over as an inherent failure of Gerold as a character, or other arguments that presuppose a lack of faith in Martin.

I can understand why, without deeper analysis, some people try to make the Doylist argument that Darkstar must be lazy writing by Martin, something along the lines of "I have to introduce this guy quick, so here's a bunch of backstory told by a bunch of characters". Instead, though, I argue that this situation of being "told" so much about Darkstar is actually the Watsonian perspective of his character; it is Arianne who has been told so much about him, and we're experiencing her misconceptions.

I've come to realize that the feeling of being "told" about Darkstar, with a focus away from what we're "shown," is fully intentional. With this different approach to interpreting Darkstar's character, I've found that not only do I like him so much more as a character in-universe, but I also like him so much more as an element in George R R Martin's writing. Melisandre might be his "most misunderstood character," but I think Gerold Dayne must be up there too.

I don't understand why it took me so long to see it: ASOIAF is all about the way that information—or misinformation—spreads and changes the course of action and history. Of course this would be a theme to look out for. Once I started to dig more into this idea in relation to Darkstar, I realized just how prevalent this theme was in the Dornish arc, which is entirely about the way that people are told something, and the way that being told these things—even without evidence—has such an impact. That's what the companion post to this one is about.

If you've read that post already, and now I've got you on board to doubt the reputation that Darkstar has, and to doubt the story Arianne was told about him, this is the post where I rebuild Gerold's character from scratch, and convince you that he's actually an alright guy, a trustworthy one, and possibly even a true knight. Maybe, even, he's worthy of Dawn, and the title of "Sword of the Morning."

I'm sure I'm not the first to suggest this, as it's been so many years, but it's exciting to experience a moment of realization that makes me see the writing itself in a new light, so I wanted to share my thought process here.

2.0 Gerold Dayne, shown not told.

In this part, I attempt to look at Gerold Dayne as if I were Areo Hotah, not Arianne: to watch what he does and says, on page, rather than take anyone's word for it, and rather than interpret his actions against a prejudice that he is as dark and dangerous as Arianne thinks. This way, I want to see what kind of man Gerold Dayne actually shows us he is, through his actions and interactions, rather than who we're told he is.

Beyond just doubting Doran's story because I don't believe Doran to be trustworthy, here I'll be explaining why I think that once we get to know Darkstar as best as we can, maiming Myrcella doesn't even really sound like something he would do.

This is a long one too, like the other one, so the rest is after the cut

2.1 Early good impressions—by being early

We don't see very much of Darkstar on-page, so let's start with our very first impression of him, in the second paragraph of the chapter:

Arianne Martell arrived with Drey and Sylva just as the sun was going down, with the west a tapestry of gold and purple and the clouds all glowing crimson. The ruins seemed aglow as well; the fallen columns glimmered pinkly, red shadows crept across the cracked stone floors, and the sands themselves turned from gold to orange to purple as the light faded. Garin had arrived a few hours earlier, and the knight called Darkstar the day before.

We don't know when they arranged to meet, but I think there's room for a symbolic meaning to Arianne arriving just as the sun goes down. Symbolically, the day ending as soon as she arrives mirrors the way that her plan is going to end as soon as it begins.

In addition, it's a signature of Arianne's character this chapter, moving just slightly too slowly. In this way, Arianne is already more like her father than she wants to admit—remember the overripe oranges falling in The Captain of the Guards, or how Areo knew that Doran saying they would leave at dawn meant midday. Arianne is the same—she arrives to her own plan at dusk.

Even without that comparison, Arianne's late arrival is emblematic of her inability to structure a plan as carefully as she believes she can, which is also something that haunts her for the rest of his arc. Consider the meaning of this for her: she is the head of this plan, and yet she and her two companions are the last to arrive. Garin beats her to the rendezvous place by a few hours... and Darkstar is almost the opposite extreme. He gets there a whole day early.

Perhaps that's suspect, perhaps that's responsible; this alone is not enough to say. For a certainty, though, this clearly positions Darkstar as someone who is, say, the opposite of the "Late" Lord Walder Frey. He's a man who comes early, not late.

As the chapter continues, it's not the only time that Arianne lags carelessly while Darkstar vouches for a more responsible course of action, so keep this in mind. This passage sets the tone for the rest of the chapter.

2.2 What makes a man "Great"?

The next time we see Darkstar on page, we get his first line of dialogue and his first actual on-page action. He juts in while the others are talking about the storied hero who is Garin's namesake:

"Garin the Great," offered Drey, "the wonder of the Rhoyne." "That's the one. He made Valyria tremble." "They trembled," said Ser Gerold, "then they killed him. If I led a quarter of a million men to death, would they call me Gerold the Great?" He snorted. "I shall remain Darkstar, I think. At least it is mine own." He unsheathed his longsword, sat upon the lip of the dry well, and began to hone the blade with an oilstone.

There's a lot to unpack here for such a short passage. To begin with, we can interpret some of Darkstar's values from his additions to this conversation. He clearly has a certain pragmatism, because he chooses to see through the veneration that the stories have afforded "Garin the Great", and points out that his cause was actually poorly met. In this way, Gerold might come off like a humorless spoilsport, but we can also consider the fact that he's already learned some of the lessons that other characters, like Sansa, have been forced to face: reality does not match the songs, and not all "heroes" are good people.

Gerold also shows a concern for the ranks of the military. It's not about one man's veneration for him, it's about the success of the plan—and the survival of the men who act on it. This is actually the same concern for Dorne that Doran is obsessed with, at the end of The Watcher:

"Until the Mountain crushed my brother's skull, no Dornishmen had died in this War of the Five Kings," the prince murmured softly, as Hotah pulled a blanket over him. "Tell me, Captain, is that my shame or my glory?"

Doran has spent a lifetime hemming and hawing over this notion, unsure of whether to act or to wait, and choosing inaction over decision. By stark contrast, Gerold speaks with a casual certainty: "Garin the Great" was no good at all, because all his men died, and he lost. It might make him sound like a cynic, but Dayne knows what he believes in. Leading men to their death is no greatness at all.

2.3 Choosing one's own name

And, now knowing his thoughts on blind veneration, we might reinterpret his decision to invent his own nickname. Rather than grasping for approval from in songs (like Tywin's Rains of Castamere), his act of naming himself could be seen as a sign of honor, not blind pride.

"If I led a quarter of a million men to death, would they call me Gerold the Great?" He snorted. "I shall remain Darkstar, I think. At least it is mine own."

He does not believe in misjudged "bravery" for the sake of a title, and therefore is unlike so many others who we see across ASOIAF ready to die fighting in their desire for glory. Rather than dreaming of becoming immortalized in a song, Darkstar has no lust for public approval—he's given himself his own title, and means to prove himself against his own standard.

And at least it is his own. ASOIAF is a story where so much weight is put into names and epithets—Arya and Sansa losing their names and even their chapter titles, Brienne and Jaime fighting against the disparaging nicknames they are given. Here, Darkstar has already proven himself past all of those troubles with this one action—regardless of whatever names others should call him, or even remember him by, he shall go by this one, the name, and the fate, that he chose for himself.

2.4 Honing the blade

And then, immediately, Gerold starts caring for his blade.

He unsheathed his longsword, sat upon the lip of the dry well, and began to hone the blade with an oilstone.

Interestingly, the list of people who hone their blade on-page is surprisingly short. This shared action puts Gerold in league with the likes of Brienne:

I will, she promised his shade, there in the piney wood. She sat down on a rock, took out her sword, and began to hone its edge. I will remember, and I pray I will not flinch.

And also the likes of Yoren, Arya, Jon, Meera, Barristan, and Hotah himself; all of whom are dutiful if not also generally good-hearted. Ilyn Payne and Rakharo, care for their blades on-page, too, and though I'm not sure if they get enough story time to argue whether or not they are good-hearted, they are certainly pragmatic, skilled, and committed. Bronn, too, hones his blade on-page, and even if not good-hearted, he's these other positive qualities, the ones that make him likeable even in his scoundrel status: Bronn is skilled, pragmatic, dedicated to his craft, and even committed after his own fashion (he does name his adoptive child Tyrion, after all).

Better tying this to a morality case, the first time we see Sandor Clegane caring for his blade is after the Red Wedding, after he fully commits to taking in Arya. Similarly, Jaime is only seen caring for his blade in Feast and later, after he begins to have his own character turn towards searching for honor.

In stark contrast, Theon pulls out his blade to "sharpen" it before facing his father in Clash, but he only "gave it a few licks" with the whetstone ... what a total poser.

(It's a silly thing, but the most minor character we see sharpening a blade is a stray Blackwood... so you know these are the good guys, haha. Oswell Whent, too, which I don't make much of myself but I know others have.)

So, when we see Gerold Dayne start to sharpen his blade as his first on-page action, we might think: here is a man who is responsible, who is committed to duty, who believes in taking care of his person and his honor. Tying little actions like this to character qualities is the kind of thing GRRM does frequently.

2.5 Sober attitude

To a similar end, we also see that Gerold Dayne doesn't drink, preferring water with lemon.

Once the kindling caught, they sat around the flames and passed a skin of summerwine from hand to hand . . . all but Darkstar, who preferred to drink unsweetened lemonwater.

Which puts him in league with Brienne again:

"I would prefer water," said Brienne. "Elmar, the red for Ser Jaime, water for the Lady Brienne, and hippocras for myself." Bolton waved a hand at their escort, dismissing them, and the men beat a silent retreat.

As well as Stannis, paragon of "duty":

But not today, I think—ah, here's your son with our water." Devan set the tray on the table and filled two clay cups. The king sprinkled a pinch of salt in his cup before he drank; Davos took his water straight, wishing it were wine.

Again, this is the kind of quality that is associated with people who are attached to their sense of duty. (Note also that as Brienne feels increasingly lost during her search for Sansa, we see her increasingly drink wine. Roose, for his part, doesn't just drink wine, but wants wine sweetened with sugar and spices, which, like Littlefinger's minty breath, covers up his harsh reality).

So Gerold Dayne, in word and action, seems to have more in common with duty- and honor-bound characters, rather than being the heartless rogue which the Martells seem to believe he is.

2.6 Arianne's imagination versus Gerold's reality

Arianne asserts that Gerold would go so far as to exterminate an entire clan... but it's while she's fantasizing about ruling Sunspear with Myrcella as Queen:

Once I crown Myrcella and free the Sand Snakes, all Dorne will rally to my banners. The Yronwoods might declare for Quentyn, but alone they were no threat. If they went over to Tommen and the Lannisters, she would have Darkstar destroy them root and branch.

So we know what Arianne thinks he's capable of, but we also have heard Dayne's own thoughts that war for its own sake is not laudable. Would he really be the type to eradicate a whole family, like Arianne says? So far, he seems otherwise like an alright guy, and potentially even a true knight, so far: he takes care of his sword, he stays sober, he arrives early, he's not searching for glory from others, and he doesn't believe one should be rewarded for idiotic wars.

If I were to put this in a single quote—if I could create a single moment where I might show that Arianne's mental image of Darkstar is one way (hard, dangerous, mean) and his reality was a different way (dutiful, pragmatic, and good-hearted)—I might show it like this:

He has a cruel mouth, though, and a crueler tongue. His eyes seemed black as he sat outlined against the dying sun, sharpening his steel, but she had looked at them from a closer vantage and she knew that they were purple. Dark purple. Dark and angry. He must have felt her gaze upon him, for he looked up from his sword, met her eyes, and smiled.

Does he have a cruel mouth, and dark, angry eyes? Or does he have an easy smile? Arianne tells us the former... but so far, we are shown the latter.

And what does Gerold himself say with that "cruel tongue"? What counsel does he give, what courses does he suggest?

2.7 Gerold's bloody suggestion

Before Myrcella arrives, Gerold Dayne has the chance to offer counsel to Arianne. This moment comes directly following that moment where all of Arianne's other conspirators confide that they don't trust him, and that they don't need him for the plan. Immediately afterward, Darkstar returns and suggests that the plan isn't very good to begin with.

Dayne put a foot upon the head of a statue that might have been the Maiden till the sands had scoured her face away. "It occurred to me as I was pissing that this plan of yours may not yield you what you want."

While all of Arianne's friends have warned her of Darkstar, why is it that Darkstar is the only one to warn Arianne that this is a poor plan? It's important to remember that he's right, after all, because this plan gets thwarted, and as he goes on to say, was ill-concieved to begin with. If he can see it, why have none of Arianne's other allies considered this? Or, more interestingly, why have none of them told her?

This conversation continues, and notice how Arianne is never straightforward with Gerold about how she feels in response to his questioning. She says one thing, and then thinks another to herself. Already, we are being shown how we might be distrustful of what we are told—and again, Arianne has more in common with her father than she thinks. She knows how to speak carefully when she really has another objective.

"And what is it I want, ser?" "The Sand Snakes freed. Vengeance for Oberyn and Elia. Do I know the song? You want a little taste of lion blood." That, and my birthright. I want Sunspear, and my father's seat. I want Dorne. "I want justice." "Call it what you will. Crowning the Lannister girl is a hollow gesture. She will never sit the Iron Throne. Nor will you get the war you want. The lion is not so easily provoked." "The lion's dead. Who knows which cub the lioness prefers?" "The one in her own den." Ser Gerold drew his sword. It glimmered in the starlight, sharp as lies. "This is how you start a war. Not with a crown of gold, but with a blade of steel."

At first blush, it's easy to get caught up in the notion that Darkstar is simply offering to kill Myrcella for the ease of it all. We're told the whole chapter that Darkstar is a violent man, and here's the evidence.

Arianne herself only considers this interpretation, and it's how she remembers the conversation once she's imprisoned:

He wanted to kill her instead of crowning her, he said as much at Shandystone. He said that was how I'd get the war I wanted.

However, this conversation, though brief, is not so simple as that. Instead, while Gerold's advice to Arianne here at first seems unnecessarily violent, he's actually displaying wisdoms that we learn elsewhere in the story.

For a start, we see Gerold's disdain for vengeance for it's own sake—and his suggestion to Arianne that this quest of revenge and authority will not actually get her what she wants. In Gerold's words, she wants "a taste of lion's blood." He knows this song, as he says, as well as Ellaria, who gives an identical warning with far more impassioned language to the same audience ADWD The Watcher:

"Oberyn wanted vengeance for Elia. Now the three of you want vengeance for him. I have four daughters, I remind you. Your sisters. My Elia is fourteen, almost a woman. Obella is twelve, on the brink of maidenhood. They worship you, as Dorea and Loreza worship them. If you should die, must El and Obella seek vengeance for you, then Dorea and Loree for them? Is that how it goes, round and round forever? I ask again, where does it end?" Ellaria Sand laid her hand on the Mountain's head. "I saw your father die. Here is his killer. Can I take a skull to bed with me, to give me comfort in the night? Will it make me laugh, write me songs, care for me when I am old and sick?"

Gerold says it more simply, and more harshly: this quest for vengeance and lion's blood will not get you what you want.

He then tries another angle, saying that "Crowning the Lannister girl is a hollow gesture. She will never sit the Iron Throne. Nor will you get the war you want." This sounds, at first, like a complaint of the plan's futility, but he offers a suggestion of how to achieve said war instead: "Not with a crown of gold, but with a blade of steel."

I have to point out the metaphor at use in this moment:

Ser Gerold drew his sword. It glimmered in the starlight, sharp as lies.

A blade as sharp as lies—yet another allusion to this constant Dornish theme of lying and deadly misinformation. Seen from another perspective, we might put it another way: that lies are as deadly as a blade. This, too, is Doran's message: that the grass which hides the snake is just as deadly.

This too is Gerold's message, because in combination, his suggestion that crowning her is empty and to kill her is simpler sounds like an allusion to another wisdom we learn later in ADWD Tyrion I, given by Illyrio when Tyrion alights on the same bright idea as Arianne, to crown Myrcella:

"In Volantis they use a coin with a crown on one face and a death's-head on the other. Yet it is the same coin. To queen her is to kill her."

Gerold understands this, and he displays it in this conversation. His offer here, then, is to skip the trouble in between—the girl will never sit the Iron Throne in any case, so Arianne should just kill her and be done with it, and have your war that way.

Rather than a threat against Myrcella's life, the way Arianne remembers it, we might see this as a challenge: if Gerold sees that both acts end in Myrcella's death, and both in war, he's presenting Arianne reality of the lack of choice.

In a way, this is consistent with his earlier complaints about Garin the Great—was it worth it to make Valyria "tremble" at the cost of so many of his own? Gerold's question, though harshly put, makes Arianne face that question now, before they start off with the plans.

Like her father, though, Arianne defers the problem, preferring not to address it this night.

I am no murderer of children. "Put that away. Myrcella is under my protection. And Ser Arys will permit no harm to come to his precious princess, you know that."

Arianne makes the choice, but she does not say it aloud. Why? Because even she sees that it's contradictory to raise her up and expect her to live?

As we see so often with Arianne, she foolishly answers that it's not her responsibility. Myrcella may be under her protection, but Arianne relies on Ser Arys' action to keep it that way. Arianne tries to argue that the weight of this threat to Myrcella is not Arianne's burden to take, but rather Arys'.

Darkstar disagrees, pointing out the longstanding rivalry between the Dornish and the Marcher Lords.

"No, my lady. What I know is that Daynes have been killing Oakhearts for several thousand years." His arrogance took her breath away. "It seems to me that Oakhearts have been killing Daynes for just as long." "We all have our family traditions." Darkstar sheathed his sword. "The moon is rising, and I see your paragon approaching."

Finally, though, actions once again speak louder than words. Rather than pull his sword here against Arys, like he was just threatening to do, he sheathes his sword when he spots Arys, obeying Arianne's command. So far, whatever he's said, Gerold is still committed to following Arianne's wishes.

His threats about Daynes killing Oakhearts has another layer of meaning, though, in this complete context: Daynes have been killing Oakhearts, yes, but it's not just Daynes who wouldn't blink at killing a Marcher, it's all of the Dornish—as Arys is so intimately aware of in his one chapter.

As much as Arianne is dodging responsibility, she's also right that Arys is the final obstacle in anyone's way should they wish to do harm to Myrcella. Note, though, that despite the story Doran and Arianne later tell the Sand Snakes, it is not Darkstar who slays Arys—it's Areo Hotah. If we say that actions speak louder than words, hear this: Gerold sheathes his sword when Arys approaches, and it is Doran (through Areo) who kills Myrcella's most leal protector.

Given all the trouble Doran later goes to in an attempt to smooth over Arys' death, Gerold is probably right here that a dead Arys means war. Once again, Gerold is a pragmatic thinker, in theory. In my opinion, despite the cruelty of his suggestion, his conversation about the death of Myrcella is a reality check, not a call for wanton violence.

2.8 Gerold's good counsel and care

Later comes the second time where Arianne lags carelessly... and here, Gerold steps in to give Arianne good counsel.

Arianne had hoped to reach the river before the sun came up, but they had started much later than she'd planned, so they were still in the saddle when the eastern sky turned red. Darkstar cantered up beside her. "Princess," he said, "I'd set a faster pace, unless you mean to kill the child after all. We have no tents, and by day the sands are cruel."

Here, contradicting the stories of Gerold Dayne as a cruel man, Darkstar seems to show more direct concern for Myrcella's wellbeing than any of the other plotters. Arianne—like her father—moves to slow, and Gerold wants to make sure that the girl isn't killed. He's not just pragmatic in theory, he can also be pragmatic and considerate when it comes to the young girl with them.

Here, also, we see that Gerold does not actually mean the girl harm. The accusation that Darkstar slashed Myrcella implies this narrative where Darkstar took advantage of the chaos to finally take his chance to kill the girl and make good on his threat. If that were the case, then here Darkstar could have simply said nothing, and let the girl suffer or even die from the heat. Instead, he speaks up in order to spare Myrcella from the sand's cruelty.

2.9 Gerold's opinion of Arthur Dayne

With all of this context, I'll finally take a look at Gerold's opinion of Arthur Dayne.

As she led the princess to the fire, Arianne found Ser Gerold behind her. "My House goes back ten thousand years, unto the dawn of days," he complained. "Why is it that my cousin is the only Dayne that anyone remembers?" "He was a great knight," Ser Arys Oakheart put in. "He had a great sword," Darkstar said. "And a great heart."

He clearly loves the Dayne house, but seems to have less respect than most for Arthur. Many and more have taken this to be a sign of petty envy, that Darkstar is questioning Arthur's skill at swordplay, perhaps in comparison to his own.

But consider the quote another way: we know from his opinion of "Garin the Great" that Gerold resists the idea of blindly idolizing heroes only because they have become great in the telling. This newer hero, Arthur, is no more special to him. What has he actually done, not what stories have been told of him?

Once again, this is a return of our theming: being shown, not told. Gerold is quick to resist the allure of the songs of Arthur Dayne—to Gerold, there are plenty of other Daynes just as special, or perhaps even more so. This is not a lack of love for his house, nor for honor and glory—quite the opposite. Like with choosing his own name, Darkstar wants to create his own context to see Arthur in, as part of a ten thousand year old lineage of great Daynes (ha) and not some special, magic knight.

Perhaps Gerold Dayne is pointing out that there is more to a knight than having a sword; perhaps he is condemning the idea of equating "swordplay" with "greatness".

What we hear about Arthur is more often than not about his prowress with a sword, but consider the context in which Arthur Dayne was brought up in this chapter. When Myrcella brings him up, his reputation is marred by the fact it's own existence:

"There was an Arthur Dayne," Myrcella said. "He was a knight of the Kingsguard in the days of Mad King Aerys."

Not the most good-hearted of details to remember him by, truth be told.

I suggest that this passage instead serves to suggest that Gerold has a stricter sense of what is valorous than most. Even the great, seemingly infallible Arthur Dayne was a sword in defense of the Mad King. Does serving the Mad King still make for a "great knight"? Or only a "great sword"?

Of course, there's another interesting aspect to this quote: despite his disregard for the particular qualities of Arthur, Gerold is more than willing to acknowledge the greatness of the sword Dawn. I'll get into that at the end.

2.10 Gerold sues for peace

Finally, in his final appearance on-page, we get a last word from Gerold Dayne, who, this time, says exactly what Arianne is thinking... when she, again, is too slow to act, and is unable to say anything herself.

You reckless fool, was all that Arianne had time to think, what do you think you're doing? Darkstar's laughter rang out. "Are you blind or stupid, Oakheart? There are too many. Put up your sword."

Darkstar suggests to all that they surrender. He suggests they put up their swords. Yet again, this is a consistent characterization for Darkstar: a man who speaks against the honor of leading others in a death charge, a man who is a sober thinker, a man who plans to arrive early, and a man who considers heavily the consequences of the actions at hand, especially when they end in the death of a young girl.

After all this, I don't think it sounds like Darkstar to make a wild, reckless, opportune grasp for Myrcella's life, no matter whatever Doran says. Instead, Gerold Dayne has all the trappings of a dutiful knight, and even his brusque edges come from a certain brutal realism, not a sense of jilted pride. He may even be a good and caring man at times.

3.0 My predictions for TWOW: GRRM's next moves

I used to really not like Darkstar. I don't mind him being a little cringe, because this whole series, as well written as it is, still has plenty of pulpy 80s underpinnings which I love just as much as the highbrow stuff. I can handle a little melodrama, fine... but why is Darkstar so flat, I wondered. It felt so incredibly—uncharacteristically—clumsy to have this hurried introduction of a character, and have everyone in the chapter rush to tell the reader how dangerous he is, just so he could do the "dangerous guy" thing and run off to become the next MacGuffin of Dorne.

That is, if everything, or anything, that we were told about him is true.

If we understand that not all we're told is true, then GRRM hasn't actually spent a whole chapter telling without showing. Instead, he's been consistently playing with the same notions of actual reality vs. stories and lies that the rest of the Dornish plot revolves around (and the rest of the series, for that matter, but I'm staying focused here).

In addition, all of that telling we got about Gerold Dayne wasn't at all for the purpose of giving us a quick, surface level introduction to the character (which makes sense, because George is otherwise so good with character). Instead, all that telling is part of a larger, longer plot about Doran's scheming and lying, and Arianne's own susceptibility to Doran's stories.

Finally, and most of all, it all sets up one of GRRM's favorite things to do: a subversion of a character in a twist that involves a sudden change of perspective.

If Arianne and Doran have spent 4 (or 5, including TWOW previews) chapters now telling us what a nasty guy Gerold Dayne is, won't it be a shock once he's granted Dawn rightfully and is named the next Sword of the Morning? What's even better is that, looking back, it will be clear to see how much he isn't a nasty guy—he's actually a pretty good candidate, dutiful, smart, aware of the consequences. He's the kind of guy to take care of himself, keeping his mind and blade sharp, and to be considerate of those lesser than him, as with Myrcella or Garin's army. He may not be a nice guy, but being nice and kind are not always the same. That character of Darkstar, the knight worthy of Dawn, was there all along—except that it was all obfuscated under Arianne internal narration and Doran's repeated lying.

After all, he is of the night... which sounds super edgy, but is foreshadowing too. What comes after the night? The Morning.

Being "of the night" might not be Darkstar being an antihero, but instead being anti- heroes, he's against the concept of the overinflated hero. Like Sandor Clegane, who starts to seem more and more a true knight despite despising knights, Darkstar may be set up to take on a legendary mantle, like Sword of the Morning, despite his utter disdain for legendary heroes, like Ser Arthur and Garin the Great.

And actually, I suspect that Darkstar is quite familiar with Dawn already—after all, despite his cool words about Ser Arthur, Gerold Dayne does seem to recognize the greatness of Dawn. I expect that he's seen its value for himself.

Gerold is the type of man to take himself seriously ... and while that's very easy to make fun of from a reader's perspective, it's a very admirable quality in a knight. It's the same trajectory Jaime has been on: everything used to be a joke to him, but no longer: Jaime is learning how to shed that shield of humor and to take himself and his honor seriously. Can we begrudge Ser Gerold the same?

Rather than hunting down a villain, Areo Hotah, Obara, and Balon Swann are on Doran's truth-suppression mission. For after all, as Lady Nym pointed out, loose ends make for exposed lies. If I replace some of the names of her cautionary message from The Watcher:

If Gerold Dayne is alive, soon or late the truth will out. If he appears again, Doran Martell will be exposed as a liar before all the Seven Kingdoms. He would be an utter fool to risk that.

And so Doran sends his unbeatable Hotah, with his massive and lethal axe that already killed one Kingsguard and might well kill another. How is Gerold Dayne going to match up against that?

Well, he'll have a great sword.

#jozor thoughts #asoiaf meta #asoiaf analysis #Doran Martell and Gerold Dayne #valyrianscrolls #twow speculation #darkstar #Dorne Told not Shown

[sayruq]

I find it interesting that GRRM decided that two different times in history, both the Vale and Dorne were kept out of life changing events. First there was the Great spring sickness where only vale and Dorne were kept safe and quarantined while the other kingdoms suffered. And then during the war of five kings, vale and dorne remained neutral while everyone else was fighting someone. Is that meant to be a coincidence or is Martin wanting to make a connection between them?

It's probably done on purpose. The War of the Five Kings was written first, then GRRM went back and added in the Great Spring Sickness because GRRM loves his rule of 3. Either things come in threes or they come in twos with the third time diverging.

Aegon and his sisters, Dany's 3 dragons, 3 Baratheon Kings, 3 Martell siblings, 3 Lannister siblings, 3 Starks who died before and during Robert's Rebellion, etc but there's also

2 Martell-Targaryen marriages (1 successful, 1 disastrous, 1 more potential marriage between Aegon and Arianne that could go either way),

two Starks going south to join a civil war (Ned Stark joining Robert's Rebellion with his side winning, Robb fighting the Lannisters ending with his death, which means the Northern army is going to leave the North for a third and last time this time ending with a Northern victory. I don't think Cregan Stark really counts as Rhaenyra was dead while Ned and Robb went south as the war was ramping up),

and 2 plans by sacrifice a child with royal blood (Edric Storm who escapes, Mance's baby who is hidden and sent away, which means that when they decide to burn Shireen, they'll go through with it)

This tells me that if Dorne and the Vale were spared war and sickness, then the third time must be different. This is why Dorne and the Vale are going to be instrumental in 2 different concurrent wars: the War against the Others and the Dance of Dragons 2.0 between Aegon VI and Daenerys.

Both kingdoms have fresh armies eager for war. The Dornish army will join Aegon VI in TWOW and the Vale army will go to the North for Sansa Stark (who is Aegon's narrative twin. Seriously, go read ADWD and tell me Aegon doesn't follow the same narrative beats as Sansa's ASOS and AFFC chapters. The main difference is that Aegon was hidden as a baby, he has open supporters while Sansa's are still looking for her or waiting for an opportunity to step up -*ahem* Yohn Royce - and he is ahead of her rn because he's invading Westeros while Sansa is still in hiding).

#Anonymous #dorne #the vale #house martell #house arryn #asoiaf #asoiaf speculation #asoiaf meta #song of ice and fire #aegon vi targaryen #young griff #dance of dragons 2.0 #Sansa Stark

[randomestfandoms-ocs]

Taylor Swift Edits ✤ Arianne Martin

1989 ✤ Blank Space: Cause, darling, I'm a nightmare dressed like a daydream

Tag List: want to be added?

#arianne martin #ocappreciation #fyeahteenwolfocs #girl on fire #*tswift #*1989 #my work #my edits #my gifs #my ocs #teen wolf oc

[aegonbeingfakeisracist]

hi!

Can you talk more about Arianne and Daemon ? Seriously they are my favorite couple I even have a headcanon that Arianne will be pregnant with Daemon I mean it's more a parallel with Asha's possible pregnancy (pairs between Martells and greyjoys) and Daemons are so fertile hahahaha (Daemon Targaryan Daemon Blackfire) even begin another family but Martin chose the same name and Daemon Sand's father has twins in addition to him...

Anyway I don't see any chance of marriage/ engagement or Arianne's love interest in Aegon it just won't be happening,I see them having a friendship relationship and a strengthening of the family bond , with Ari being a guide for his cousin ( so much potential). This is a bullshit she doesn't want to be queen but Dorne anda her father love. I just want Arianne to be able to be happy white someone who respects her and see her more than just a pretty body and face, and Daemon strikes me as perfect.

I really don't want Arianne to be pregnant because it seems to me like needless drama and just all around bad timing – she's serving as an envoy. There's a war going on. And I feel like her words to Elia kind of apply to her, as well – kiss all the boys you want when you're home in Dorne, but this is so not the time. Sure, she propositions Daemon, but she didn't actually sleep with him. Also, Arianne canonically uses moon tea for birth control. So I'm hopeful there will be no baby unless she lives to the end of the series.

But I think her relationship with Daemon is just so unique in terms of all the relationships we see in the series – they were children doing this entirely on their terms. They were the same age. They just liked each other, and so engaged in a relationship without fear over consequences.

I think in recent years, there's been a weird rise in people forgetting that tropes are tools and not fundamentally good or bad. One of the ways this manifests in particular is hating "childhood friends to lovers" or people winding up with their first love. I don't have hard stances on the kind of relationships in fiction I find interesting or boring. Mostly for me, it's contextual – what is compelling in ASOIAF to me is not the same as what's compelling in another work. And while I certainly agree that there are situations in which a childhood friends to lovers angle may be boring, I think in the ASOIAF context, Arianne and Daemon's childhood sweethearts angle is actually extremely compelling.

For a start, this isn't a people-staying-with-their-middle school-boyfriend-forever scenario. It's the fact Arianne and Daemon had a relationship, broke up, lived near a decade having separate lives with Arianne certainly having other relationships and Daemon probably also doing the same, and are potentially coming back together.

For another, I really, really like what Arianne/Daemon would mean for Arianne as a character. I've said before that she's my favourite ASOIAF character. But even outside of my own personal bias, think about the type of fics that get written about her. It's hard to identify this for certain, because AO3 tagging is just so messy, and navigating through Arianne's tag is a lost cause, but mostly, fic!Arianne is just three sliders of stupidity, horniness, and ambition. Which is just so, so not book Arianne, at all.

Arianne is unique amongst the most important female characters of ASOIAF. She's is not the heir presumptive, she's the heir apparent. Dorne will be hers. And she is a descendant of Nymeria, the most recent in a long line of rulers of Dorne. Her family is central to Dorne's cultural memory, as it was Nymeria and Mors that turned the collection of states into a unified nation. So unlike, say, the Tyrells or Freys, who determinedly pursue these grand matches in a way of compensating for their relatively recent history, Arianne...doesn't really need to do that? Like, she can just marry a bannerman and it would be totally fine.

Furthermore, Arianne clearly has more rights of refusal than most women, and she is not shy about using them - these are real rights she has. I can imagine her feeling more pressure to accept if offered a candidate that wasn't clearly a joke, but given the setting, this is true for everyone. The fact remains, Arianne has options, and since she's going to be a ruling princess, those options are broad.

But despite all of this, her marital prospects are a huge theme. Doran offers her elderly suitors. Daemon and Drey wanted to marry her. There was an entire marriage pact that no one bothered to tell her about. Arianne intends on bartering her own hand, and thinks about how whoever she weds would rule Dorne by her side.

How does all this connect to Daemon? Because he's a nobody. Okay, sure, that's a little extreme – he's a knight, the son of an important lord, and the former squire of a prince. But even though that is the case, he is still a bastard. His father has at least two legitimate children. This isn't a case like Ellaria, in which the set up makes it extremely reasonable to think that her father's land and title will one day fall to her and her daughters - Daemon will not inherit anything. Meaning if Arianne were to marry him, or even just obviously choose him as her partner without a marriage? It would be for her.

There might be some political benefits, given that Daemon is clearly on good terms with his father, but very indirectly, and not nearly to the extent that would be the case with other marital candidates. It cannot be considered anything resembling a political move. So Arianne choosing Daemon would be her taking control over her life, making the choices she wants, for her. It would be her choosing a Dornish spouse that has ties to her family beyond just her alone. It would be her in a position where she can safely choose to make her life with a person that she loves, that isn't the best political choice.

It would be her choosing someone that is deeply, fundamentally tied to Dorne - not just because he's Dornish, but because he is a bastard, because he was once a child in the Water Gardens, because he attended the feast for Balon Swann and did not drink upon the toast to Tommen. Arianne drank. Doran drank. But Daemon did not. Daemon is clearly still in love with Arianne. There is a reason their relationship was never the same after Doran rejected him for her. He loves her enough to serve as her sworn shield and beg her to allow him to go into a dangerous situation in her place. But he has his own mind, and his own beliefs, and his Dornish identity is a big part of that.

We've seen very little of Daemon. But from what we have, he sees Arianne in a way that few do. Doran didn't understand what was going on with her at all. Arys and Areo both clearly had images of her in their heads that didn't quite align with reality. But Daemon, despite their relationship having never recovered fully and despite Doran being so much like Arianne that one would really think he should understand her more than he does, gets her more than anyone else. He understands the strained relationship with Quentyn and that Arianne maybe isn't so desperate to have her little brother return. He sees bits of Arianne in Elia. He literally finishes some of her sentences.

Of all the people Arianne could ever engage in a relationship with, I think Daemon, more than any other character, represents her making her own choices and coming into her own as the ruling princess of Dorne.

#A Song of Ice and Fire #Arianne Martell #Daemon Sand #moongirlgodness #replies

[esther-dot]

just saw a dany fan on twt ''absolutely convinced" that grrm only gave sansa pov because he needed a stark pov in KL umm... sansa was a pov even in agot, when arya and ned were present in KL and there was apparently no need for her to be. grrm isn't suddenly ''forced'' to make her a pov in acok/asos since there are no other starks in KL, she is a character written by grrm, she didn't spring out of nowhere in the story, he himself has her deliberately trapped in KL by the end of agot while arya escapes. the fact that she replaces ned as the stark pov in acok/asos in KL makes her very important as KL is arguably the most important city in the series and the starks the most important house and the heroes. its just... dany fans actually use no brain.

(another really old one, apologies!)

Every now and then I see posts floating around that attempt to remind people that characters aren't people who act without any direction, they're created by the author, everything they do is at his will, and therefore, regardless of how much a reader may like or dislike them, the author has a specific intention for them. I know people were calling Sansa a camera at one point, to minimize her role in the story, but Martin discusses his themes in her chapter too.

I mean, as entertaining as it is to pretend that Sansa (a fictional character) somehow forces Martin to write her, it's through her eyes we experience the beauty of what knights/chivalry are meant to be, the horror of what it has become. I think that’s missed by a lot of fans who never idealized any of that in the first place, but Sansa isn’t stupid, we’re meant to be disillusioned and horrified right alongside her. It is Sansa's direwolf that is killed to show us the weakness and injustice of Robert, the failure of Ned to adhere to his own ideals. It is Sansa who performs to every high expectation and still suffers, assuring us that it is not rebellion or noncomformity that is the problem, but their world.

The juxtaposition between her and Cersei, the eventual comparisons between her and Dany (this is not a shipping thing y'all, foils are just part of lit), that's where we're getting Martin's discussion of female heirs, power, leadership styles (obvy, with Asha and Arianne too), so yes, Sansa is an important perspective on the corruption and cruelty of court life and KL, but the idea that Sansa is present primarily in service of that, not really? She's important in her own right, a unique form of influence in a world that could really benefit from her ideals, even if we haven't gotten her rise to power yet.

#dot chat

[atopvisenyashill]

i’m loooving asoiaf but i’m disturbed by the way martin describes the girls’ bodies, do we really need to know that dany/marg/jeyne have small breasts? do we really need to know that sansa’s are “ample for a girl her age”? do we really need to know the color and size of arianne’s nipples? must they all come with a bra size?

ya, imo it’s a combination of

there were a few time jumps/events he thought would take longer that didn’t work out and when he abandoned them timeline wise, he didn’t like, abandon the characters acting older lol

george tends to focus on the extreme youth of the characters as a form of tragedy (the infamous “she had just turned 14” line) but because george himself is interested in the way war, identity, power, etc affect sexuality, it also unfortunately means he focuses in way too much on the bodies and sexualities of barely teenaged girls.

the “payoff” of all this is the ending of the series which we will never get, so i think people think the extreme levels of skeezy behavior will be ignored like they are in f&b - see: rodrick arryn being a sweet doting husband to his child bride, something that just doesn’t happen in the main series. the only “functional” couple we get with an age difference like that is fat walda and roose bolton, and roose is a villain and they are about to get merked by ramsay anyway so! every other teenager/adult sexual or romantic relationship has some obvious level of abuse on display, even Lancel/Cersei - you can really see the relationship damage his sense of self as it progresses!

he is a 75 year old white man named george from jersey. him being an amazing writer does not negate the fact that he has his own blind spots & will write things that don’t land. also sometimes, because he is interested in sex and sexuality, you will see him just get distracted by his own kinks when writing. i would be more willing to forgive him for this if we at least had twow and some form of "pay off" but alas. we're all doomed to have this half finished story lol.

#valyrianscrolls #grrm #grrm critical #it's a critique with love. #asks #gender politics in asoiaf

[asongofstarkandtargaryen]

Martell’s stans hypocrisy drive me INSANE, how can they hate Rhaegar and Daemon, but stan Oberyn, a 42 years old man who fucked a 16 years old Alayaya ?? Oberyn slapped a prostitute he impregnated and stole their daughter from her because he could, the end result of all this is that Obara’s mother basically killed herself and died of a broken heart via the bottle. Oberyn killed her as much as if he’d impaled her with a spear.

Maron Martell was an adult when he married a 15 years old Daenerys.

It’s not about the age it’s about the characters and whether they want to hate them or not. People genuinely don’t care when Martell men are predators, abusers, and misogynists. 

I noticed that Martell’s stans are the only people who can compete with Robert’s, Alicent’s, and Sansa’s stans for the title of worst stans. Dornish world building in general just kinda sucks, full of plot holes, hand waives, and inconsistencies, but they get the delusional fans arguing. No one is responsible for Oberyn’s death, the duel wasn’t rigged, he only has himself to blame. Arianne is the only well-written and interesting Dornish character.

I have to disagree with you because I really love Dorne! I love their unique culture, geography and history. I believe that Martin's strong suit is world building and Dorne is no exception. He really makes it believable than people live there and have lived there for ages.

And Oberyn Martell serves as the introduction to this fanscinating region. He's the Martell character we meet before we get pov on Dorne. I think that's part of what it makes him so endearing to the fandom; the fact that through him we are introduced to an interesting place and its people. He's certainly among fan favourites non pov characters and I can see why (as I'm also fond of him).

You are accusing Martell stans of hypocrisy (and I've encounter some of them who fit those criteria) but you are overly harsh on your criticism of Oberyn. I'm not even gonna touch the points I disagree with you on your characterization of him because I sense that your dislike of him and anything Martell related has more to do with the fandom than the characters themselves.

I think a major problem of this fandom is always taking sides "Martell stans", "Targaryen stans", "Stark stans", "Lannister stans" etc. Who says that we can't enjoy characters from different Houses (even those who are at odds)? Targaryen and Martell aren't even opponents, they are on the same side as they were during Robert's rebellion era. Which makes the need to "take sides" even more absurd.

#asoiaf ask #house martell #oberyn martell #all mediterraneans love Dorne; it's in our dna lol #valyrianscrolls #a post of ice and fire

[inlovewithquotes]

"And the Dragonknight? The noblest knight who ever lived, you said, and he took his queen to bed and got her with child."

"I will not believe that. The tale of Prince Aemon's treason with Queen Naerys was only that, a tale, a lie his brother told when he wished to set his trueborn son aside in favor of his bastard. Aegon was not called the Unworthy without cause."

-A Feast For Crows

#quotes #book quotes #literature #books & libraries #life quotes #george rr martin #asoiaf quotes #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #a feast for crows #affc #arianne martell #arys oakheart #aemon the dragonknight