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riverstixxelf · 1 month

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I love the SPN fandom but honestly it’s so stressful sometimes 😭

For example earlier today I googled “Misha Collins girlfriend” because I heard a rumor that he has a girlfriend, I couldn’t find much besides stuff talking about Vicky so I scrolled down and saw a tumblr post saying something about Misha being attracted to men (which I don’t necessarily disagree with, but I don’t want to tell another person what they are) and women so I clicked on it and it was a huge post (like, a couple paragraphs) talking about some strange things. I don’t remember exactly but at one point the user brought up the “fact” that Misha makes jokes about women and sex?? As in making jokes at the expense of women… and I was like… are we talking about the same Misha here? He DOES make jokes about sex but I don’t recall him ever making jokes at the expense of women. Only thing I can think of is that one story about one of his earlier acting jobs and he didn’t know the “no tongue rule” but that was mostly at the expense of himself. Then I scrolled and found another post that was pretty disturbing…

Someone had screenshotted a regular instagram caption that Jensen posted just talking about how he just got done traveling, he wanted to take a nap, something like that—nothing sexual about the post at all or anything that would suggest that—and someone captioned it with something talking about him and Misha rubbing their [babymakers] together??? I audibly laughed out loud because wtf 😭😭

I don’t want to shame Jenmish shippers (I say Jenmish because Cockles is just a… very interesting name), even though I think it’s the slightest bit strange to be shipping real people… but again I never want to put anyone down for anything because I myself have said some stuff about Jensen and Misha that might suggest something between them.

Another thing is just the amount of hate for various cast members. Mostly the hate I see is for Jared and Misha; J2 fans who hate Misha, Jenmish fans who hate Jared, etc. There’s a lot of love in this fandom but ohmygOD there’s so much hate too. I guess that’s true for any fandom, but it’s so tiring sometimes.

Also, in this fandom, you’ll get hounded for any opinion you have. If you don’t like destiel, you’re homophobic. If you do like destiel, you’re also homophobic for some reason because queer bating or whatever… for the record i’d like to state that I am a proud destiel shipper just fyi. But I see so many people take it to the extreme, make little things into big things or something along those lines. Same thing with cockles shippers I was talking about earlier. I feel like I have a pretty neutral viewpoint on stuff regarding destiel; I see most things how they are, and I make my assumptions based on CANON things. I don’t say “Dean and Cas are definitely fucking”, I say “Dean and Cas love eachother but they cant express it, because Cas wasn’t even sure what love was and Dean’s highest ideal of love is family, which is why he says Cas is like a brother to him”. Now, if you don’t agree with me, guess what… that’s okay! If you don’t think destiel exists, that’s a valid point, and i’m not gonna dox you just because you have a different opinion than me. Because that’s just it, it’s an OPINION.

I could get into Sam haters and Dean haters and stuff… but I’m tired. Actually, you know what, screw it. I WILL GET INTO IT!!!

I’ve had a few experiences with Dean haters especially, and most of the time they just ADORE Sam and thinks he’s done nothing wrong. Let me clarify that I don’t hate Sam- like- at all. Then again, Dean haters who happen to be Sam stans have warped my view on Sam a little, but I won’t let that get in my way of honest judgment.

Sam. has. done. bad. stuff. DEAN. has. done. bad. stuff. Please don’t compare their trauma, they both have their own issues, one isn’t better than the other.

I might be biased because I relate to Dean so much (like a crazy amount it’s not even funny…), but for the millionth time in a row I DO NOT HATE SAM. I saw someone saying how Dean was the cause of almost every single world-ending event that happened in SPN… like honey no. Another person replied to their comment listing all of the world-ending events… and guess what… Sam was the cause of most of them!! Does that make him a hate-worthy character? No!!

I don’t know what point i’m trying to make here. I just think there’s so much in-fighting within the SPN fandom and as much as I love being in the fandom sometimes you just gotta have a break from all the drama. If you made it this far… go outside or something don’t pay attention to me i’m chronically online.

#supernatural #destiel #jenmish #deancas #spn #discussion #idk how to tag this

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shallowseeker · 3 months

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okay so, yesterday I found your spn meta by chance and fell in love with them 'cause more than writing they're like images, like they really depict things and I just immediately understand what you mean instantly + I started to rewatch Steve Yockey's episodes 'cause I feel like I like his writing (lots of queer! lots of rom-com references! but it's all done so intellingently, I love it!) but ALSO sometimes it doesn't translate to me + I just saw you wrote about "Optimism"= I GOTTA ASK: what's your take on "Optimism"? I don't understand what the Zombie story and the Musca one should reveal about the characters. Visually, it looks like the Musca = Charlie, so Harper and the zombie are ??? I'm mad at myself 'cause I don't seem to get what the show is telling me so I'm hoping you can share what the show tells YOU and, vicariously, I can get it as well (lol). THANK YOU!

Hi! Hello!

Oh, really? That's so cool. I still have trouble thinking of myself as a "meta writer." I don't mean to be. I just like to ramble. But cool! It's probably mostly that we think alike and are sympatico in some key ways. :-) Always fun to find kindred spirits!

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O P T I M I S M

I have so many thoughts on Optimism. It's one of my fave episodes! I actually did a re-watch-slash-convo with some friends on Discord and just transcribed the very, very, very LOOONG bulk of it today!

I haven't written much on the Musca. After spending a lot of time of @scoobydoodean's blog, I've just about decided the Musca plot is actually a Sam's emotions-through line more than it is a true dark mirror. Even AU Charlie is cheeky about it:

AU CHARLIE (annoyed at Sam, about the Musca): Your nifty metaphor has holes.

Basically, Charlie is saying that mirrors aren't one-to-one, and that trying to force-fit them into being one-to-one can be super annoying sometimes.

CHARLIE - Every two hundred years there is "bad egg". When a male fails to find a mate, he abandons his community and starts using peoples bodies to "nest". Binding them together with a viscous goo. And when the goo fits...

The Musca/fly is at face-value:

A) A bodysnatcher plot: In that regard, it could be like all angels, demons, or anyone inhabiting a body. (Cas, Lucifer, Michael, Crowley, etc.) Ergo, it's a dark, uncharitable Cas mirror the way Dave Mathers outlaw wraith was in Tombstone. It could be saying that Cas "failed" among "his own people" and cruelly took up space in a human body. But that would be grossly oversimplifying the whole situation, saying that Cas "should have stayed with his people," which ofc doesn't work.

It, as Charlie says, "has a lot of holes." @ilarual has written a lot about the totalitarian structure of Heaven. And Sam himself wants Cas around. As far as metaphors go, it's a dud for Cas.

B) It's a failure to thrive plot: Because the Musca "failed" in The Real World with its Own People, perhaps failed to live up to The prescriptive Dream of Success (TM), now it's wreaking havoc on others.

Sam himself "failed out" of Harvard. He "choked." Kevin Train and Patience Turner are also Failed Gifted Students. Losers who didn't live up to their potential. This could even apply to Chuck, binding together his characters because he's a Loser with a capital L.

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ANYWAY, I feel like the Music plot is a "red herring" for a few reasons.

One: The main Harper plot is about breaking narratives, about not relying so much on books. And then Charlie says this:

CHARLIE: Goo. So, yeah. I'd say this is the right place. Now, I'm just trying to figure out what we are dealing with. Thus, books.

Aside: Later Cas says sarcastically in Ouroboros that Sam and Rowena, "Have many, many books."

So, there's this niggling indictment of trying to find too much truth in books...

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Two: Sam has a tendency to see something and, like, imprint on it. He tends to fall into "It's just like me!" instead of speaking frankly about the present situations and emotions.

*In American Nightmare, he sees Madga Peterson, an abused child* -> "She's just like me!"

*In Somewhere in Between Heaven and Hell, he sees someone lying about something completely unrelated to his current situation* ->"Omg, they're lying to them, like I'm lying to Dean! It's just like me!"

*In Lost & Found, he meets Jack Kline, who is Lucifer's son "OMG, he's just like me!" -> *spoiler alert* Jack is not in fact much like Sam at all. -> Sidenote: instead of speaking frankly about how Dean is grieving, how Lucifer killed Cas and likely killed Mary, he uses complex euphemisms with Jack, ones that actually obscure the reality of the situation! This winds up annoying Jack and making him pull away from Sam.

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IMHO...Sam isn't...naturally all that great with emotions.

He tries really, really hard, and he loves patterns, but he's always seeming to force-fit situations and scenarios into neat little boxes so he can passively-aggressively use it to indirectly communicate something he feels about himself.

He has a very cognitive empathy style. Bless him.

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So what's REALLY going on here?

Well. In this episode, he wants Charlie to stay. He wants Charlie to stay and fill a void the other Charlie left behind. He wants Charlie to stay really, really badly. And he beats around the bush about it.

At first, he sidesteps his own emotions by passive-aggressively implying that it's Dean that in fact needs her.

CHARLIE: He'll be fine. Your brother, I mean. He's got other friends, right? SAM: Plenty. Uhm, he used to have a pretty damn good wingman. CHARLIE: So call that guy to check on him. SAM: That guy was you. CHARLIE: No, it wasn't. SAM: Right, I, uh, sorry. I didn't mean that.

And then by trying to make the case fit her.

He's very indirect and weird about it. Because he's Sam. (It's a contrast to the effortless, awkward-but-honest communication style we see from characters like Jack and Dean in this very episode.)

SAM: Charlie, you can't just quit and go live on a mountain somewhere. People need people. CHARLIE: Why? Cause they're the luckiest people in the world? SAM: Look, come on. We just do. We're social animals. CHARLIE: Emphasis on animals. SAM: Yeah, but you're also a hunter. The things that we've seen, it's not so easy to just walk away from it all. Believe me, I've tried. Our Charlie tried. CHARLIE: Yeah, well again, she ain't me. It's my life, Sam. Not hers. And not yours.

Ah, yes. Instead of saying, “I want you here,” it’s, “people need people.”

And Hell, sometimes indirect communication works! Like how Dean and Cas use Felix the snake to indirectly communicate with Jack in Peace of Mind!

But the difference with Sam is...he's not using this indirect communication style to find out how Charlie feels (the way Dean and Cas use the snake to suss out how Jack feels).

No, he's using the whole thing to try to tell Charlie what he thinks is best for her! To tell her things, not find out things.

Eventually, he breaks and says what he actually thinks, but only after AU Charlie is starting to lose her patience with him:

SAM (faux-sadly): Got to say, I do feel kind of bad for the Musca. I mean, he could have been happy if he'd stayed with his people. Didn't have to go off on his own just because... CHARLIE (exasperated): Okay, I get it. I am just like the bug and I shouldn't go out on my own.

OMG, Sammy! It's okay if we want to hit Sam sometimes, right? I too wanted to hit him after he said this to Charlie.

CHALIE: But your nifty metaphor has holes. I wasn't looking for love. I found it and I lost it. And I didn't kill people and literally nest in their body parts so...(Scene cuts to other Musca removing the body of the dead one) SAM: Okay, yeah I know, I know, How about this? Don't leave.

(Aside// I think this is a cheeky nod to the fact that Cas and Dean weren't looking for love either. In fact, they tried (and keep trying) really, really hard not to love each other. Their real life was faaaar more complicated than some simple "bodysnatcher plot.")

But thank God--Sam finally says outright what he needed to say to Charlie: Don't leave.

Now, it probably would've been better if he's gone a step further: "I don't want you to leave," but for Sam, this is pretty good progress.

SAM: Hear me out. Sure some people can do bad things when they're desperate or scared. But the guy we just saved, he has a wife and children. I'm not saying that all people are good people or even that most people are but if we help people then maybe they'll help people and all that. And that's worth it. Even with all the tears and death. It's worth it. CHARLIE: Just to be super clear, I am not like the fly monster. (Sam chuckles) But, I'll think about staying.

So I think OVERALL the Musca plot is really about highlighting Sam's difficult communication style, and I think it's intentionally being cheeky about it how it's using a "really "dumb metaphor" with gaping holes!

It's about how Sam tries to force-fit the case of the week into saying what he wants it to say...instead of just saying it.

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I think Sam has a little bit of a "mental main character syndrome." He sees a scenario and moves directly into cognitive empathy, reading the situation and thinking:

How can I apply this to myself? Or make it a stand-in for either something I want to believe about myself or a stand-in for something I want to say indirectly?

Sometimes you'll see ppl insist that Sam is the "MC" because every storyline tells you "something about Sam." But I'm more in the camp that it's Sam's inherent cognitive style of empathy at work, desperately reworking anything and everything to make it apply to himself.

Whereas Cas and Dean (and Jack) have a truer emotional style of empathy, connecting with people for who they actually are, as they are.

That's not to say that both styles can't be manipulative when we want them to be. But Sam really struggles with his style in a way I feel like Dean and Cas do not. Dean and Cas perhaps don't even realize what effective communicators they actually are!

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My other thoughts on Optimism:

#asks #sam stuff #spn optimism #harper sayles #jack stuff #jack kline #spn season 14 #spn 14x06 #spn steve yockey #jack relationships

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hornystiel · 17 days

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hiii again gen z mutual from the other day here, i wanted to let you know that yes i did read everything and enjoyed too!

regarding the issue of using "old" too loosely and using it to make weird ageist comments, i understand your concern and i agree. although i haven't seen that much towards other people in the spn fandom but more towards actors like to wish a happy birthday to them i saw people saying "grandpa" and that was very odd (wasn't on tumblr though). also about your point about how busy adults have time for fandom, the way you wrote that was quite moving and very real.

regarding destiel you had a super insightful answer, which i was not expecting but was super appreciated i'm gonna try to reply slightly more in depth, sorry i don't remember the order but several points were made:

- 40 is absolutely canon dean age and in no way old and dying at any age below like 80 is quite young so yeah absolutely dean is not old

- regarding them getting old and being put in a heteronormative box, i agree on that so much and i hate those stereotypes with a passion too. i will say i get the appeal of the more white picket fence life, the suburban lifestyle or baby jack in art, it's downright delusional but it's the kind of dream that leads to seeing them happy which is heart-warming. thankfully there are wonderful exceptions that are realistic enough to want to indulge in them especially for AUs. i'm not immune to high quality fluff is all

- i LOVED the super realistic headcanons you had for dean and cas and i need you to know how incredibly interesting and CORRECT they are (the cas being too frustrated to garden too real)

long story short: no offense taken i appreciated your in-depth reply and if you read all this you're the hero ;)

(re this convo)

i am genuinely so happy my thoughts didn't look smth like 'old woman yelling at cloud' :') your answer is very sweet, thank you

the 'old' thing i mostly see on twt because here i follow those who'd never say smth like this in an ageist way but well even here some posts like this can still reach my blog through the vine but usually it's people already rightfully grumbling at the op so <3

about destiel - thank you again, usually people don't really like my way of thinking about them or are simply not interested in that (no offense to each their own) and i'm just doing my thing with a close circle of weirdos but sometimes it do be lonely. so you saying you find my thoughts interesting means a lot 💜 and of course, there are works (fics, art etc) that nail even the happy-fluffy-white-fence concepts and i enjoy them despite me not being a fluff loving person really. and sure, aus are literally for this - discovering different paths for the characters and if it's done in a compelling way - cheers

i can talk for a long ass time about all my hcs (hashtag just girl things) it's just i usually don't receive a lot of feedback on them so i keep them to one on one chats mostly, but you're always welcome to ask me stuff or just chat, i love chatting (even tho i guess i can be seen as an angry intimidating person sometimes because...well. i am angry at a lot of things sighhh)

anyway thank you again, i really enjoyed both answering your asks and reading your reply 🌷

#asks #anons #destiel hc #made my evening tbh

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angelsdean · 1 year

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nah dude i did read it all! very interesting tbh, thanks for indulging me. and taking the time lol. i do slightly disagree with a couple of points but i think that's mostly because i DO sort of view dean as a... i don't wanna say bad person, but definitely not good. and tbh i like him for that. i will say: i do think dean became the angry man in the house, because it definitely wasn't sam or cas; but i think there's a lot of nuance to it too, because for me becoming and being haunted overlap so much for dean specifically.

i do think dean was at least trying to be better, but i think we all sort of agree his journey def got cut short. not to mention i think it's hard to analyze dean as character (and john by proxy) because of the sheer layers spn has; ie is john abusive because of him or because of god; is dean like that because it's inherent (used loosely) or because of god, etc etc etc. not to mention these guys are NOT real people so we can't exactly put real standards on them - plus, they're so far removed from the fictional society as well since they're hunters. just a lot of things go into it tbh. like would dean still be the same if they weren't hunters? is john inherently violent or prone to using that kind of discipline against his sons? (the song remains the same says no, but i still wonder...) is anger inherent to dean or was it all circumstantial?

and i do agree that sometimes people ARE needlesly harsh, but sometimes stuff is just true and. as a deanlover. hes my GUY. i will say that i do think he crosses over into abusive behavior a lot, especially in the later seasons.

about the jack/children comment; i agree that they're isolated, but to me that's still... johncore if you will. and dean is very patient with children, i will give him that.

john&dean nuance is all very kind of complicated and i don't like john much either, believe me, but... dean was still threatening jack and pointing guns at him. to me, at least, that is the same as john and the canonical-not-canonical abuse implications. obviously there are differences, but i think of it like this: even if most of the bad things dean does are mirrors of john, i think the good parts are also mirrors of him. because like you said: john was not a flat character. and he loved those boys. he did very very wrong by them, but he loved them. maybe it didn't count for much in the end, but i think it did.

overall, i think I'm just the type of person to not like woobifying my fav characters (which is completely me, no hate to those who do) so i kinda get the ick when people erase and or defend dean's bad/abusive actions, because ultimately that's a big part of him, yknow?

(there's also the sam&dean dynamic which i havent seen you post a lot about, but in regards to sam and how dean treats him, espcially in the laters seasons... well, i won't bore you with all my thoughts about that can of worms cause then this ask would never end.)

thanks for answering, and making it so long lol. i love reading people's thoughts and i hope you read all this, too.

hi again! sorry i'm about to go to bed so i might not address everything here, but i think it's okay if we disagree on some things and interpret things differently.

i wrote a little bit more abt dean + john here and where i think they parallel and diverge.

i guess for me it's just that i don't think a lot of dean's actions, even the "wrong" ones make him a bad person. i think people can act imperfect and irrationally sometimes, especially in high stress situations, and then later regret and feel remorse for them. and i think dean is suffering through a lot himself and deserves a little grace, compassion, and forgiveness.

i also don't like when characters are woobified. which is why i also am not a fan of people acting like sam (and sometimes cas) are the perpetual victims to dean, as if they also do not make questionable choices and actions that have consequences. or also can just, disregard or fight against dean's actions too. they are not powerless or weak.

lastly i'd say, i don't think dean HAS to be the angry man in the house. you say you think he became the angry man because you don't think it was sam or cas but i guess i'd ask, why do any of them have to be the angry man in the house? why does there have to be one out of the three of them? for me, the angry man IS always john, even when he's no longer there. especially when he's no longer there. he's a ghost and he's in both dean and sam. (early seasons sam was very hotheaded and prone to anger too and paralleled john a lot). i think yes, being haunted by john can overlap with acting like john, but acting like john, reverting back to internalized habits is, at it's core to me, the manifestation of that haunting. that is john. and dean has to fight against that ghost. but anyway, for me, dean can never really become john, and therefore the angry man, because the angry man isn't someone you become. the term has morphed in this fandom but when i use it and talk about it it's in its original context, where it's literally the father figure. first the you grow up with him. then you are haunted by him when he's gone, still feel his presence. and then the cycle continues by inviting another man like him into your home. so in that context, dean (and sam) is the child who grew up w/ the angry man. and the child in the quote is a woman, so there is no becoming the angry man for her. i think, even still, regardless of gender, it's...idk maybe a little cruel? to say that a child that grew up with an angry man in their home is somehow destined to become that same man. that's not what the original quote meant and i don't think it's the framework we should have when thinking about dean and his complex relationship with john and his traumatic childhood.

(also just thinking abt the question of if dean would be the same + angry if they weren't hunters and while we can only take it w/ a grain of salt the show does show us two scenarios of dean not being a hunter: dean smith and djinn dream dean. and both times he seems pretty normal, well adjusted, if not a little sad and lonely)

i think the chuck stuff does complicate things and pose more questions but if we believe that chuck really does like to watch his favorite show rather than micromanage (set up the obstacle course and let them run it as cas framed it), then it's possible not everything was a chuck play-by-play. also i have to say, i personally think all of the young!john stuff we see in spn was massively angel-manipulated. (angels love their illusions and simulations after all). john felt just a little too polished and goody-two-shoes for me in those flashbacks.

anyways, this once again got long, sorry. but i think we might just have to disagree abt some of these things. which is okay!! but i definitely don't think dean is perfect or has never done anything wrong. i just love him despite those things. and when i look at his whole situation + all his past trauma it's very hard for me to blame him or be angry with him for his actions because like, dude is struggling so hard. he needs everything to stop, needs a minute to breathe, and then needs a ton of therapy and maybe some vitamin d and 8 hours of sleep lol

#replies #dean studies #mymeta #long post

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mollmom · 2 years

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Hey! I’m fairly new to the fandom, and within the past couple of weeks saw my first J2 post and was reeled in haha. I had no idea about any of this (and am still learning a lot of course) but it felt so crazy that right away I was like damn okay I can actually see this being true lol.

Your blog seemed like one of the most knowledgable and your answers are always very kind and you explain things really well, so I figured this might be a safe space to ask this because I don’t think I’ve seen much on it!

I’ve seen the timelines of things that happened in the past, and read the “speak the truth” blog that looks like it ended in 2013 or so. Of course a lot has gone down from then to now, but I guess I was wondering is there anything that points you to feel like they’re still together today? I’ll readily agree that their marriages don’t look happy (Jared’s wife’s post are big time cringe), but I feel like I don’t necessarily see a lot of those intimate touches or slips or anything from recent cons as I’ve seen scrolling through old ones.

And if they are together, what do you think keeps them from coming out? And I’m not asking from a standpoint of just society’s perceptions impacting careers because I intimately understand how that can unfortunately change things (especially with how different the world was when they first met), but do you think that it’s just gone too far for them to get out? Or do you think they’re worried of how it might impact the perception of the Supernatural series? Or do you think they’re just waiting for the right time?

Hey there! Welcome to the craziness that is Supernatural and J2! It’s a unique experience and it can be a roller coaster!

I’m glad you took the time to read “Speak the Truth”, it has a lot of tinhat history and is a good jumping off point for the J2 tinhat story.

To answer your questions, yes, I absolutely think they are together still. Last con’s main panel (Torcon) really had a lot of clues if you know what to look for, ie: why did Jensen’s shirt “fall off”? Protective Jensen was also out in full force as Jared was feeling emotional. Also, if you start following their patterns, there are blocks of time where neither of the boys are seen at all. These are times you can pretty much assume they are together. You may not know it then, but inevitably some fan posts a pic of of one or the other and you can sus out where they are. Of course most fans don’t pay much attention.

As for them coming out, I think there are many pieces to the puzzle of why they aren’t out. Some have to do with TPTB at CW way back when, when they couldn’t be together in the open bc they played brothers. SPN is also very popular in countries where LBGTQ + community is unfortunately illegal. This would definitely effect distribution, etc. Hollywood is also not the greatest for the LQTB+ community (although they think they are). Many people are still not out and HW has a bad track record in regards to bearding. Then you have the marriages and kids to consider, the lies they have to tell, etc. Also, a lot of fans just think they are hetero and have a visceral reaction to anyone saying they aren’t. Frankly, that’s a lot to face for anyone, and they may never come out. Only time will tell. I hope that someday they will be able to overcome all the obstacles and be free to show their true selves.

In the meantime all we can do is support them and their careers and if they do come out let them know we love them ❤️.

Thanks so much for liking my blog! I’ve been on a bit of a hiatus, but I’m back! Thank you for your question!

#mollmom answers #j2tinhat

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cooloddball · 2 years

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I think Jensen's daddy kink stems from his daddy issue. He has a lot of unresolved (maybe they are resolved now, I wouldn't know) with his father. He has shared how his father would beat him with a belt to discipline him. He has also mentioned how his father would call him after every episode of supernatural aired and tell him what he thought of his performance. I am not a psychologist but people cope with trauma in different ways.

this may not be everyone's cup of tea so keep scrolling otherwise

yeah i recall he at a con mentioned that his dad would beat him with a belt. about his dad watching spn episodes and giving him feedback about it, he mentioned that on the red carpet. he also mentioned that he was kind of scared directing his dad on spn because he's not easily impressed or something akin to that.

i'm not american, or texan, and neither am i a man, nor did i grow up in the 80s so idk if that's how sons are treated by their fathers in texas but i can agree that all seems like too much for anyone and that must've been traumatizing for him and it still is if he still talks about it.

onto the daddy kink thing, yeah, as i was reading this ask i was unsure with where you were going with it but i can see him trying to seek approval from an authority figure, someone he holds in high regard and getting such kind of approval from people he holds in such a light would please him. hence also why praise makes his knees buckle etc but that's a topic for another day.

i mean i could be wrong and to reiterate what you said i'm not a psychologist either just a tumblr dweeb trying to answer asks and make sense of things.

ps, i love jensen, he's my ray of sunshine and this is in no way a ploy to disrespect him. this disclaimer is to all the a**holes who like making drama out of innocent posts

#asks #anon #j's daddy kink #i'll tag it that way in case anyone wants to blacklist it or whatever

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hologramcowboy · 1 year

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In my opinion regarding Jensen’s career, I feel like if he would put in the time to ask for an acting coach and rebrand his image fully, he would be where he wants to be today (A-list famous). It’s obvious that is all he cares about when it comes to his career. He’s not for taking projects that he is genuinely interested in. He wants projects that would gain him exposure and that would lead to bigger things. And being a “one trick pony” (his own words) is not going to get him the roles he wants. He’s typecasting himself by limiting himself and not putting in the effort. I agree with what you and prev. anon said about his acting on Spn coinciding with the writing. He got very comfortable with his role, and as time went on he stopped putting in any effort. And you can’t place all of the blame on the writers, because it is the actor’s job to bring THEIR own version to the character and bring it to life. The Dean we saw in the later seasons was not the same Dean we saw in the early seasons. A lot of Dean stans love to talk about how smart he really is and degrade Sam in the process and saying the writers did Dean dirty, but they need to ask the question, why Dean was dumbed down and a completely different guy? Jensen has described many instances where he talked to the writers and saying Dean wouldn’t do or say this, but why didn’t he do more? I get that you can’t go against the writers on everything, but you can’t blame the writers, when it was evident that Jensen didn’t care too much as long as he had a steady job/income. Nevertheless, if he doesn’t change his ways, then he will be stuck. He needs to listen to his PR team, but if we’re being honest, I think he only used them for TB.

Even from the interviews I've read, past and present, it's clear he is in it for the money and name recognition and never truly intended to explore the craft. It's gotten to a point in his career where this is limiting him greatly as not only is he a "one trick pony" by his own definition but he is also an actor without an effective toolbox to access, therefore, an actor that is bound to stagnate. What I don't get is, why isn't anyone on his team making him aware he needs a career upgrade? Usually Actors receive yearly if not monthly/weekly advice from their talent agent/managers/coaches regarding their set goals for that time period and the next tier they are aiming for. For example a co-star is going to do everything requited to get to Guest Star tier and so on and that might mean hitting the gym, switching agencies, new classes, new on brand headshots, marketing materials, website, workshops, self produced work, etc. With Jensen either no one cares or he is too self centered or maybe arrogant and ignores the feedback he gets which, before anyone bites my head off, would be your standard HW Diva lol In other words, a difficult actor, every agent's worst nightmare. I'm hoping he is not the latter but i find it VERY hard to believe his team gives him no feedback since the whole industry is structured a certain way. I'm really curious what is going on behind the scenes

#jensen critical

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bustyasianbeautiespod · 7 months

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The Them taking out the Horsemen narratively and thematically important for GO’s view on humanity and love and community… but I do always find it a little underwhelming tbh. This is also true for me in the book, but the book makes the visual parallels between each of the Them and their respective Horseman clearer so it made more sense. In the book we also have the Them gathering play versions of the Horsemen’s summoning items.

And no for sure “cheek” was about the “gentlemen” comment. You bring in Brian Cox for the absolute gravitas and you make him do that, smh.

Speaking of the ladies, to your point about Pepper being a feminist but her hold on what that means is unclear… do they kind of write Anathema like that as well? Is it ok because basically everyone except Adam is an idiot, so the women should be silly as well? Like even our main ethereal girlies are wildly incompetent and that’s what spurs the whole story (but hot, important to remember they’re both insanely hot and in love, and so they are forgiven because I have principles).

What I’m saying here is thank you for making a 3+ hour ep that I am 1/3 of the way through lol

HI!! agreed on the underwhelmingness in both show and book. it's more disappointing for it to be eh in the book bc you'd think that gaiman - who has written a lot of quite good children's books - would be able to capture the whole power of belief/fairytale logic idea behind that scene while imbuing it w actual intrigue, but ig that's just not rlly the tone the book was going for? and i like that they braided a crown out of grass and got a stick sword and everything! and that wensley swung the play scales around like a weapon it's a fun visual!

THANKS FOR THE CONFIRMATION. he literally made death sexist. he made DEATH sexist. that wasn't even in the book he just wanted to make death sexist. DEATH!!!!!!!!!! spn-ass writing (i don't even know if death is sexist in spn but uriel feels sexist sometimes and it's like. that is an entire angel who hates humanity and the earth so so much that he actually wouldn't develop an understanding of gender or the patriarchy imo)

yeah, i do think anathema is written similarly to pepper regarding her beliefs- she feels them very strongly but some are misguided or based on misinfo. it does make sense that everyone's incompetent bc i think gomens is about how it's not the best of humanity who save the world, it's some cringefail weirdos with a passion for something and who are trying, which is quite nice! but it does feel different when wensley's quirk is saying "actually" a lot and pepper's is... being a feminist? like everything is political but anathema and pepper's things are more directly political. and it is perfectly fine to make fun of feminists/lefties who don't rlly know their shit through specific instances of character writing if the show at large still values feminism and leftism, but given how the women are written (also HE MADE DEATH SEXIST????) and the things grey and i mentioned about the use of north africa in ep 2, gomens also falls short there. it's all a mixed bag though - obv pepper's "i do not endorse everyday sexism" is part of her Hero Moment, so we are supposed to admire her for her beliefs there, but we're clearly supposed to laugh at "another deluded victim of the patriarchy" and the did-you-just-assume-my-gender-esque exchange during the bike convo in ep 1. and obv you don't have to Make An Unambiguous Statement through clapping and cheering every time one specific char says things, but when you make one character The Feminism Character, it does feel like you're making a statement even in places you aren't. but again, this rlly would all be fine and forgotten if the women were written better

damn that got long but i loveee that you called aziraphale and crowley "our main ethereal girlies." they rlly rlly are. and thank YOU for this ask!!! it was a joy to answer <3

- Crystal :)

#asks

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eisforeidolon · 2 years

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After watching the trailer of TW in was quite natural that Jensen would get some heat as somehow he has put himself into that spot but now things are again going out of hands. My dash is filled with posts like Jensen is backstabber, Jensen is cunt, Jensen is just like his unhinged fans, Jensen and Misha are no different etc... To an extent where it is frustrating. Maybe I am wrong to think like that, but I cannot dismiss someone without giving him benefit of doubts just by judging his one wrong decision. Also, Jared posted something supportive for Jensen, his stans think he did that because he is great and classy which is very much true- but also I believe he is smart enough not to extend his support over a backstabber if there was no mutual understanding between themselves regarding the scenario. Or he can do it to avoid controversy, I don't know if that was necessary. However, I was damn angry and frustrated on Jensen and still am, but haven't found any reason to think he is the worst person ever till now, but this kind of posts mentally forces to believe that which is tiring. It makes me think whether I am being blind to certain truths because I don't want to handle them, but also I don't want to be judgemental on someone I don't know for his offense on someone else because I necessarily don't know the whole story. It's a strange conflict. You are one of them most sane peoples of this fandom whi are extremely rare nowadays, so coming to you for rescue. Hope you don't mind.

I think it's important to remember that SPN fandom is ... really super extra about everything. Prequelgate both set off brand new conflict and brought a lot of previously subterranean stan resentment up to the surface.

I'll just say again, consider the biases of the blogs you're reading. Compare what they're saying to direct sources and available facts. Consider what seems reasonable given everything you know.

For example, when a blog talks about a new development, do they frequently leave details out that don't fit with their opinion? Do they state what are clearly their interpretations as facts? Do they drastically contradict themselves from one post to another, depending on what will spin better for a consistent underlying agenda? Is their response to what they're reacting to actually proportionate? Can they admit to even the possibility of being wrong? Do they spend a lot of time claiming to be superior and uninterested while constantly diving into the wank they're supposedly above and the topic they don't care about? Does their opinion depend on believing some kind of underlying reason that doesn't actually make much sense if you follow the logic through? Does their version of events require whoever they stan to be a moronic, helpless blob that needs their protection? Or whoever they don't to be an idiotic mustache-twirling villain?

I'm not going to tell you who or what to believe, but I think if you consider the overall picture any given blog is painting in terms of the factors above? It might help you determine how seriously you should actually be taking what they say. Especially when it doesn't agree with your own impressions from the original context without the extra stan spin on top. This fandom is full of a lot of very heavily invested, very opinionated people. A lot of whom have very specific pictures built up in their heads of who J2 and each J individually should be. I think it's good to examine other opinions, but in doing so it's very important to consider how much weight they actually deserve. I personally have no more interest in digging for hidden clues in J2's positive statements and interactions with each other since prequelgate to prove they're fake than I ever had in searching for clues in the show to secret hidden storylines.

One last consideration in terms of dealing with all the negativity? Despite considering myself a wank blog, I actually officially follow only a small handful of SPN blogs that are largely wank free. I enjoy interacting with a much wider circle of blogs, but sometimes I find it very helpful to be able to check into the fandom on my dash without also having to check in to the wank, if that makes sense.

#askboxery #anonymous #anti actor stans #minor anti prequel sentiment #long post

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kagesdumpsterfire · 2 years

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The Winchesters: Season 1 Episode 1

I don't know if any one else prepared themselves for the pilot like I did (probably so) by watching all the important John and Mary lore centric episodes. I'm glad I did though, because it gave me a nice refresher on important elements of each of their pasts. Not to say I didn't already know their story (I've watched every episode, minus 15×20, at least 4 times so...) but it was like having a good cram session before a test. That being said I have a few thoughts on the pilot that I wanted to write down. Mostly for me to go back on in the future to see how my opinions may have changed. Anyway, SPOILERS AHEAD

CHARACTERS

ADA

Starting off with Ada because the least is known about her, but I like her so far. Strong, mysterious, smart, has worked with MOL before, owns a rare bookshop (which, let's be real here, for a black woman in the early 70s is impressive as hell). Vey much looking forward to seeing more of her.

MILLIE ( Momma Winchester)

Definitely giving Ellen Harvelle vibes. Strong, Independent but bitter. I sympathize with her, of course. She thought her husband ran off on her then her son goes off and lies about his age to join the military, not knowing for 2 years if he would come back alive. I'd be bitter too. But between her and Henry, it's easy to see secret keeping and lying to "protect loved ones" is definitely a Winchester genetic curse. Honestly I'm nervous to see what is going to happen to her, considering she's almmost never (if ever) mentioned in SPN.

LATIKA

I like her. She's vey sweet, if not a bit naive. We know that Samuel saved her life somehow which is how she got involved in everything and that she's known Mary for over a year but inexperienced in actual hunting. She's a pacifist and easily frightened, which doesn't bode well for her hunting career, but very eager to get out onto the field. Of all the characters so far though, she's to one I'm most concerned about. Her devotion to Samuel, coupled with her naivety and pacifism is a combo that could easily get her killed. I hope I'm wrong, but this is the SPNverse so...

CARLOS

Love him. He definitely felt like the most in-place character for the time setting. And being openly bisexual in the 1970s? Legendary. He's very aloof, obviously a player, hippie "free love" vibes. He got into hunting after his family was slaughtered by a gouhl. Something happened between him and Mary ( macking on her ex and bailing on a hunt of some kind) but he apparently carries a torch for her. I like that he has a takes charge vibe and obviously believes in a "hands-on learning" approach when it comes to hunting. He seems to have a lot of faith in people's abilities to suprise themselves. My only concern is that his additude is going to get someone killed. I also feel like there is going to be some tension bettween him and John regarding Mary in the future.

* note: This is about the character. When regarding Carlo's actor, they are nonbinary and use They/Them pronouns*

MARY

She's vey much Mary Winchester. Some people might not agree, but I think most people are looking at Mary the mother, Mary the wife, not Mary the young daughter of a hunter. Mary the young girl who wanted nothing to do with hunting but had no choice. Mary the young girl who is still in mourning over the death of her cousin, a death she blames heself for. Pre John, Pre Sam and Dean, Pre Azazel Mary. We're seeing a Mary who isn't responsible for anybody but the people she saves. A Free Mary if you will. But still her. She's a badass fighter, which she always has been. She has a caring quality to her but is still standoffish in a way. She would rather walk away from human confrontation than talk it out (Same ole Mary) and she definitely acts before she thinks. Now, I've had a multitude of mixed feelings on Mary ever since season 12 of SPN, mostly veering towards frustration. She's not a simple character, she never has been. She has layers and not every layer is all that likeable. But one thing about Mary that I do respect is consistency. Did she try to be a good mom, a good wife? Yes. Did she always succeed? Hell no. She has always had a layer of defiance and selfishness hidden under whatever mask she was wearing at the time, even when it came at the expense of others. But she also has always had a need to protect. I'm not going into how I felt about her abandoning S&D in SPN because that's an essay in and of itself, but overall I can say I definitely feel like they got Mary's characterization right in TW. Hopefully they'll grow with that.

John Winchester

*deep aggravated sigh* John motherf*king Winchester. The hardest thing we are all going to have to accept about this series is that this is pre Azazel John and therefore, not the ruthless SOB that we love to hate. Truth is, when we first met the Wichester parents in season 4 of SPN Mary described John as sweet, kind, and someone, who despite everything, still believed in a happily everafter, everything a hunter isn't. That is the John we are going to be seeing. Now, I am , in no way, trying to be a John apologist. I personally think he should have stayed in hell after what he did to his children. I will make no excuses for the man he became. However, this is him before he became that man. That being said, I'm still not sure I like him. He's obviously suffering from severe PTSD after watching his friend get blown up and needs to talk about it. Not just say this is what happened, but actually sit down with someone and talk about it. I realize it's the 70s and therapy wasn't as readily available as it is today (which casued a multitude of problems irl after 'nam with messed up soldiers but I digress) but jesus christ Winchester, get some therapy. Because of this he has an obvious death wish. Right off the bat he puts himself in danger without any knowledge of how to handle what he is facing. He also has a "White Knight" complex that I cannot stand (and again have seen in real life soldiers fresh out of combat so bravo for accuracy there). He is very cocky, and sure of himself, which is going to put someone in danger. He's flirtatious (we all saw the Latika scene) and while not neccesarily a bad trait, it will most likely cause a distraction that isn't needed in a time where focus is necessary. I definitely see traces of the John we know. Looks like he always had trouble of letting go of the past at the expense of others, very on brand. I can definitely see where Dean was coming from when he said Sam was just like their father. It's interesting for sure and I'm reluctant to say this but, I'm ready to learn more about him.

STORY

It's alot. Like a lot. It feels like they did their damndest to pack as much exposition in as possible which made for and extremely fast pace3 pilot. There wasn't a whole bunch of down time in the episode to reflect on things which can be a good thing, midseason, but was a little wonky for the pilot. We got introduced to a few new characters as well as reintroduced to some old ones with some glimpses of backstory and it honestly could have been split into two parts to ease the pacing but overall I'm intrigued.

Some key points:

John's PTSD is definitely going to bite them in the ass, though it was interesting to see he always had a willingness to bleed for mary when he cut his friend's cross out of his arm.

Samuel leaving Mary and Deanna alone to go off on a hunt seemed off. I realize it was used as a plot device to tie in with SPN but it felt...hmmm....I'm just not sure I like what certain fans will do with the " finding Mary's dad narrative. Iykyk.

The man who handed John his dad's letter and dissapeared was 100% an Angel. You can't change my mind

Driving to 3 different states in the first episode was a lot but apparently this group is used to it, John however seemed so willing to leave home and travel with them, which made me feel sorry for Millie.

They have a monster box and a lot of info on how to use it due to the library and the MOL club house, which was cool and I want to know more about this stuff but everything was so sped up I couldn't get a grasp on everything they were doing and saying. I'm sure it will be explored more.

While it isn't the first time we've seen that the MOL have used monsters/creatures as guard dogs for their things, I almost wish it would have been a previously known monster. I actually have a lot of complaints about the loup-garou but that's neither here nor there.

I hope to see more of Carlos and Mary's beef regarding that hunt and they don't leave it slightly vague like they did with Bobby and Rufus. I also want to know more about how Samuel saved Latika.

The Akrida. Are we talking Aliens, dimentional creatures, or underworld here? I have a feeling they are going to be a key plot point in why John seems oblivous to everything once we meet him. I'm definitely intrigued, if not a bit apprehensive, but we'll see.

I, personally, enjoyed the little details about John and Mary's first meeting they put in there. Slaugher house 5. Cup of coffe. All that good Jazz, it was nice. I'm still bothered by Zachariah saying they hated each other at first and forever bothered by the random patron of the diner from In The Beginning telling John to say hi to his old man for him, when Henry dissapeared when John was a child, but it's still the pilot so, there's time.

DEAN😭😭😭😭😭

I'm not going to sit here and predt3end I didn't tear up hearing his voice. I'm sure as hell not gonna pretend I didn't cry actually seeing him on my screen again. I was born into this fandom a Dean girl and since nothing in the SPNverse never truly dies, it looks like a Dean girl I shall remain (with occasional Castrash moments obviously).

PRODUCTION

Glorious. The shots in Louisiana were beautiful, I enjoy the music accompaniment and that it isn't so loud that it overtakes the dialogue *coughcough* but gives the scenes a nice ambiance. Hearing Dean's song over John's dialogue made me feel a type of way but I'll let it slide. The lightning is very bright and Campy but that's just how most everything is shot now. And it wasn't terrible. Literally my only complaint from a production stand point is some things about Mary's costume (she looked more like Claire Novak's twin sister that Mary Winchester. We need the Farrah Faucet hair) and the damn loup-garou. It looked like and ROUS from the Princess Bride. There is no known lore on it other than how to kill it. I get that it's a pilot and budget sacrifices have to be made somewhere but it was just...ugh. literally my only real complaint. I could deal with every minor detail that didn't fit my expectations because this is the pilot and really, who am I to be picky, this show wasn't made SPECIFICALLY for me and me alone, but that damn loup-garou was not it. Overall production, not just "for a pilot", but as a whole, was stunning when you consider that Jensen and Danneel have NEVER done this before. Bravo.

ACTING

I've already seen people commenting about the acting in the tags and some of it hasn't been terribly kind. I saw someone liken it to disney acting. Which, IDK couldn't have anything to do with the fact that Meg was a Disney channel actor, could it? Give them a break guys. They did a good job. Acting isn't easy and I, spending the majority of my childhood and teen years being a stage actor, saw no glaring issues. I was very impressed with the acting for a pilot. Let's face facts here guys its not like the SPN actors were ALWAYS on the ball either. Jensen was a soap opera star ffs! This is their first episode together. You gotta give them a chance to get to know each other. Damn, it's not like they stared into the camera or broke character or gave middle school play vibes. I'd be more concerned about their acting skills if they had been doing this for umpteen seasons and were internationally known super stars, but they did better than A LOT of CW actors on tv today. They did good. I'd like to see some of you go out there and do better. It's a pilot not a finale.

Final thoughts

Overall, I really enjoyed it, and not just for it being part of the SPNverse. I honestly think i I would probably watch it as a stand alone for it's subject matter and genre. I think Jensen and Danneel did a wonderful job. I'm looking forward to putting my bias against John aside and actually learning more about the Winchesters' past. Definite 7.8/ 10 for a stand alone pilot (-0.2 for the pacing and - 2 for the damn loup-garou) and a solid 8/10 for something from the SPNverse.

Will we learn more about the The Akrida and their plan to destroy existence as we know it?

Will we get more backstory on our new characters?

Will anyone ever explain why the random patron told John to say hi to his old man for him when Henry had been missing for years?!?!?!?

Tune in next week for: Kage rants about The Winchesters To Almost Nobody But Themselves, to find out.

#the winchesters #TW #the winchesters prequel #spn prequel #pilot #kage rants #review #kratwtanbt

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hauntedpearl · 2 years

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Regarding your last ask. Turning your anger against random spn bloggers is really not changing the system IMO. There needs to be an open conversation about racism in this fandom, but nothing is gonna change if you alienate everyone who is willing to listen to your righful anger by harassing and guilt tripping them. The We vs. Them mentality is not helping the cause at all.

okay. see..now i feel like you're misinterpreting what I said in that post.

let me reiterate so it's clear: people of colour don't owe white people their forgiveness. we don't owe them our time of the day. we don't owe them any kind of accommodation.

we should definitely be compassionate, because that's something all people should be, but that is not something that should come at the cost of our discomfort or pain.

and in most cases, when we call people out, it is because we're hurt. anger isn't without hurt. that much, you should know.

i do agree that things can spiral very fast and it becomes an us v/s them thing, but, AGAIN, the reason we have to seek other poc and band together IS BECAUSE OF WHITE PEOPLE. LIKE.

the onus of making this situation easier to deal with is 100% on all the white people in the fandom.

i mean, sure, poc could stand to be a little more "easygoing" or less "reactionary" but think critically for one second. why do you think we are like that?? why do you think we get tired so easily!? why do you think we lash out, are so quick to anger??

look around you, man.

I'm used to this kind of conversation and i do it willingly, so my tolerance for white bullshit is very high. which is not and should not be the norm!! there should not be any white bullshit to start with!!! that was the point of the post!

don't say that poc are alienating you. maybe understand that they're lashing out for a reason and try and not take it personally. do better. and if you find yourself wanting to stop this situation from spiralling, and also feel like you have a good grasp of the situation, insert yourself into it and moderate the conversation you are asking for. like. take responsibility. don't get mad at kids on the internet who are tired of seeing people like them get shit on in every imaginable way every time they go online.

like..please don't let that be the takeaway from my post.

i do understand where your frustration is coming from because i also experience it all the time. and the mudslinging is. like. oof. exhausting. but we gain nothing from turning on poc. we gain absolutely nothing!!! yes, there needs to be an open conversation, but i think maybe, there also needs to be a lot of private acknowledgement of problems and conversations at the same time. like if you feel like you cant approach poc, approach the white person you think can help you best. that's all. like. idk how else to say this, but don't blame the righteous anger. definitely not when it comes to this particular situation.

(also there's an intersection to. like. the social media attitude towards what's moral and what's not and that's a whole can of worms i don't wanna touch and that contributes to what you're talking about too but again!!! we need to work on those things but we can't be mad at poc anger that's just not it)

#doe's inbox #anon #ANON LIKE. IM SORRY IF IT'S COMING OFF A LIL MEAN BUT WE CAN'T BE DOING THIS OKAY LIKE.#let people be angry i promise it's not always bad #tw racism

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lannisterdaddyissues · 1 year

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I thought I was the only one who was a little annoyed about folks being hostile towards Ethan in regards to Benji's trauma!!!

I'm an active Benthan fan and I can kinda see how as a fic writer it could be interesting to explore that idea-- that since we didn't see Ethan comfort Benji onscreen at the end of RN after he was kidnapped and almost killed by Lane, that maybe Ethan didn't comfort him and maybe Benji has feelings about that-- but to act like Benji's trauma in the M:I series is a result of Ethan being a bad friend or a bad person is a huge stretch.

It takes away Benji's agency as a character. He chose this really dangerous job that frequently goes off the rails, and honestly Benji's trauma in RN is more directly from Lane's actions than anyone else's. Sure, Ethan's not perfect, he makes mistakes and those close to him get hurt, but Benji specifically knows the risks. We know he knows this because he shouted this at Ethan (and all of us) in the movie. At that moment he actively opted in to the danger of being an intelligence agent. I think Benji in particular is the only character in the film franchise that moved into active field agent work from an office/desk job position-- he put himself in that situation.

(If anything Ethan would blame himself and Benji would tell him it's not his fault. Because that's kind of the argument they had after the opera house. "I can't protect you" meaning, "if something does happen it'll be my fault because I know I can't stop it" vs "that's not your decision to make" meaning, "It's my choice. I choose what I do and what happens to me, not you.")

Far be it from me to yuk someone's yum-- We all have our pet head canons-- but there is a lot of woobie Benji in the fandom, and I think fanfic readers and writers can forget that their interpretation is just one interpretation of many possible fan interpretations and is not in fact canon.

ahhhh so true anon!! sorry it took me a hot minute to get to this, and i DO have so much more to say on this but alas i am Very busy at the moment with school and i don't have the time to be writing up long rant posts LOL (but i wanted to say this now in case i waited too long and you never saw it asgasdfashgs)

but i fully agree about taking away benji's agency as a character... it's really the whole reason why i stopped reading benthan, i just got tired of the same trope over and over again where he's a blushing virgin and the damsel in distress ... i also don't want to yuck someone's yum but surely benji has more character than that...

and aside from that the post just felt so... entitled? idk? like they were saying that they thought ethan should've comforted benji on-screen instead of ilsa being there with him at the end of fallout, and look i get that these people love their ship but they sound just like spn stans when they call benthan queerbait. it is not queerbait. they aren't canon! (and just because the scene doesn't happen on-screen doesn't mean it didn't happen off-screen! that's what fanfiction is for: write it yourself! ethan isn't such a terrible friend that he wouldn't check on benji after two near-death experiences. if they think that he's neglecting benji then that's a massive character assassination on their part.)

#ask #reply #anon ask #this is so clunky and i didn't string my thoughts together very well sorry #i absolutely have a better argument in my head but i have to grab dinner like right now so i can take my exam tonight

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blanketforcas · 3 months

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https://blanketforcas.tumblr.com/post/741697452561825792/sincerely-mr-garza-one-of-many-co-exec-producers

thank you for including the entire transcript, rather than conveniently cut parts that are elsewhere!

perhaps i’m wrong, but given the context of the entirety of what he said i do believe in this instance the “open for interpretation” is in regards to what happened next for castiel, as he does say “and we find out what happened after what happened happened”

there was a lot of expectations put on tw, but not the space within the storyline to organically include a dean and cas reunion in the way it deserves. which does correlate to what misha said, about how he and jensen spoke about how just a cameo wouldn’t do cas justice. it’s clearly something they both want for the revival (thinking of jensen and his “can we talk about that goodbye a little bit?”)

(i do think it sucks that apparently even acknowledging castiel is considered a “can of worms”!)

re open for interpretation: yes but also, what happened to cas does include the confession, and especially with him mentioning the "can of worms" thing one sentence before he talks about the show leaving stuff open for interpretation - imo the confession is clearly on his mind there

& yes ultimately i agree with jensen and misha's decision not to bring cas back for spnwin, i can't see a way they would've given that storyline the attention and spece it deserves without completely derailing and overshadowing the main plot. it really is better suited for a spn revival

i agree it sucks that some people still consider that to be opening a can of worms. if he means purely wrt to spnwin though, ig i can see that, depending on how he'd explain it

#are my words even wording today

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lesbianelphie · 2 years

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Okay forget I submitted that other one my hand slipped. So I loved your analysis about that question!! There are def a few things that I didn’t even think about lol. Cuz you said that I can add my own addition so that we can discuss this, it might be long because I’ve been thinking about it a lot and like I said I loved your analysis. You’re so right they would get along in that regard of wanting to protect their friends and that they are huge dorks!! Okay so I hope this doesn’t come off as mean/too critical but I’m going to be disagreeing a little bit here so I might be annoying right now. Okay so I think they would get annoyed about Sam and dean’s job enough that they wouldn’t fully be able to get along. The reason I think this is that Sam and Dean actively go to seek other supernatural people and oftentimes their goal is too kill them because they’re oftentimes shoot first ask later (which changes over the course of the seasons but in every season they flip flop a ton which also just concludes to terrible writing but overall they do that). And while the supernatural does go after them their jobs also do require them to search for them. And I think that the st characters who have been shown to have empathy and excitement to this supernatural(besides the upside down but that does get thrown at them and they have to have be on the defensive all the time). While they are hesitant towards el at first which makes sense with how they found her and what was happening, they also accept her for her powers and all. And even find her powers to be amazing! Dustin showed compassion towards dart even after finding out that it was from the ud. I think them finding out that witches, werewolves, and vampires would be so exciting to the party/gang. While I do think they would be terrified of some things and go against them I think they would want to know about this stuff. I do think they would be nervous about some supernatural people killing other people but they would also really want to help the other supernatural people too because essentially the gang is all about helping their friends/other people. They have a ton of survival guilt and I honestly don’t think they would want anything to do with the hunting jobs so idk I think that would be a huge conflict between all of them. Idk what you think of this is let me know if you disagree or have some parts you agree with and others you don’t. I love discussing with other people!!

Also I loved your tangent about John coming with little Dean and Sam. Especially because you’re so right Joyce and hopper (and legit the rest of the gang) would go nope to seeing that happen. They would straight up want to take the two from John. Also you’re right I could see hopper getting along with Bobby and Jody (especially Jody idk they would be cute best friends also I think they would be so healthy for one another). Also joyce would totally hang out with Jody and get along so well with her. I’m already thinking about them gossiping and doing bonding activities.

Ohhh about the healthy vs unhealthy thing you’re so right. I didn’t even think about the colleges i kind of just thought with the dynamics themselves. Because Sam and dean’s dynamic reaches to a certain level of high toxicity meanwhile Will and Jonathan’s is healthy. No sibling dynamic is perfect (saying as an older sibling) but Jonathan and Will’s relationship is so good compared to Dean and Sam’s co-dependency (especially dean’s actions towards Sam idk if you’re a huge Dean fan but as an older sibling some of his actions made me so pissed off). But I def like the different dynamics like that! Also the college thing is so interesting cuz you’re so right. Like even though it was difficult sam decided to leave meanwhile Jonathan is stuck on staying.

So true like spn's hypocrisy regarding which supernatural things are okay and which need to be killed drives me up the wall especially given monstrosity/queerness/deviance parallels so I totally agree that the hunter mindset would probably piss them off especially with regards to El. Like I can see them definitely trying to hide her from them just in case they come to the same conclusion that the government in st4 came to (that she's the one behind the murders/happenings and needs to be taken out). Like they do generally seem to have a much greater appreciation for understanding and responding compassionately to what's happening (i.e., when they find out dart was from the UD they want to take him to Hopper rather than just trying to kill him then and there).

Lol I am a bit of an Eldest Sibling/Dean Girl (gn) but definitely in a "he's got issues that need to be resolved but is also a soft dork" way as well as a "secret good spn in my head where he didn't actually do like half the shitty stuff he did" way. So yes to all of this ✅️ I think maybe he and sam might see the way will and jon are and have a little bit of a crisis about what they could have had if they hadn't been raised by j*hn </3

#ask #steves-ozzy-moment #strangernatural #anyway so true

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cogentranting · 3 years

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7, 13, 14 for SPN ask game

Thanks!

I think that there’s a lot about the season 5 ending that is sort of tighter and cleaner-- the season arcs all flow one to the other very naturally so that the themes and the character arcs and plot feel very unified and well thought through. And the seasons after season 5 don’t have that same level of unity and foresight. And I think that the first five seasons present a very clear, fairly simple, and satisfying arc for Dean and him getting a sort of happily ever after with Lisa and Ben and a normalcy he never could even admit that he wanted. So on the one hand I think season 5 is a good ending on most counts. Sam sacrificing himself in a final defiant triumph over the destiny that everyone has predicted for him for so long, is also I think a really good crowning moment. But you’re also presented with the problem of the aftermath not being a satisfying ending. I’m totally fine with characters dying but your options with Sam would be dying and going to Hell to be tortured by Lucifer forever (not a good ending), leaving it on an ambiguous note of Sam’s back but how and does he reunite with Dean or... ? (not a satisfying ending because it is way too ambiguous and pretty much any prediction of how it plays out casts the rest of the ending into doubt too), or you send him to Heaven and at that stage in the show that’s not even a good either.

Add on to that all the things that would have been lost if the second 2/3rds of the show weren’t there and I end up really favoring the season 15 ending. I think Sam and Dean get such a chance to mature and grow and regain some balance in their life after that point and all that makes such a difference. And I really do like how things ended.

BUT I might move that ending we got and make it a season SIXTEEN ending. Not from a position of “I didn’t want it to end yet” but because of how the end date affected a couple arcs. While I like the season 15 ending, I thought season 15 as a whole was pretty lackluster. There was a lot of missed potential, a few things I really didn’t like, and overall just not that much that I was particularly attached to. But season 14 had so much potential. Dean being possessed by Michael, the Malak box, Jack losing his soul. But all of that fell short in the last handful of episodes, and my theory is that came as a result of deciding to end with season 15 and meant that they had to switch gears into setting up that final season arc which I think they’d been holding in reserve for a bit. So Michael ends up being kind of anticlimactic, Jack losing his soul happens and then never really gets fully dealt with because season 15 didn’t seem to want to dive into all those complicated emotions . But if there was one more season, season 14 could have ended with a big confrontation with Michael-- allowing more of the consequences of what Dean went through with Michael at the beginning of the season to be felt, more resolution for what it meant for Dean to try to cage Michael himself, the consequences of choosing not to use the Malak box (and why Billie was so sure that was the ONLY way), another appearance of Michael Dean (who I really enjoyed), and then have Jack lose his soul at the end. Then you have all of season 15 to deal with what that means, letting maybe the moment when Jack goes completely off the rails happen around midseason and then at least half a season to work on fixing the relationship between Jack and Sam and Dean (especially Dean). Then you could even end season 15 with Jack still dying, and being brought back part way through season 16 then regaining his soul, all the same, But that final season wouldn’t have the burden of trying to fix the damaged relationship. It would just be there. Because my least favorite part of the last season is that it doesn’t do nearly enough to fix the relationship between Jack and Dean. So yeah. Give season 14 more breathing room. Then copy and paste 15x20′s ending but put it onto the end of season 16.

13. My favorite arc is probably the Mark of Cain. Which is a long arc since it’s a full season and a half, but I really like how all of it plays out. I think it’s really interesting to dive into that darker side of Dean that has been present since season 1 (I think of the end of the season, him telling Sam that it scared him how he didn’t hesitate to kill the possessed man in order to save Sam and John, and that he’s scared of how far he would go for either of them) and that just kind of kept getting amplified over the seasons, with his time in Hell, and then really became even stronger after how he had to live in Purgatory for a year. But the Mark of Cain stuff draws on it in this really interesting way of making it a curse on him and while simultaneously pulling Dean down into the worst, darkest, most twisted version of himself (which is so fun to see), it also highlights a lot about what is best about Dean-- how strong he is in fighting against the Mark, how deeply he wants to do the right thing and protect people, the force of his determination, how much he cares and how intensely he feels the weight of every time he ends up hurting someone. And it confronts this image of himself that Hell and Purgatory and everything in between have given him that he is dark and damaged and a killer and warrior and that’s it but ultimately makes all about how much he is willing to sacrifice to protect the people around him (especially Sam) and about everyone else around him-- Sam, Cas, Charlie, even Crowley-- loving him so much that they’d go to the ends of the Earth and cross all these lines just to save Dean. It’s one long extended character study of so much of what I find fascinating about Dean and it’s dripping with angst and I love it. I also really like the arc in season 2 of Dean coming to terms with the fact that his father died for him. The arc where Jack is dying is really good too, because I love seeing Sam and Dean and Cas being paternal.

14.

Agh. I don’t know. I think Jody probably reflects a lot of things I’d like to be. But overall my gut reaction is to say that I’m more Sam than anyone else. I can’t even put into words exactly why. Certainly I wouldn’t say that I identify with Sam’s struggles-- more like, if Sam had a led a more normal stable life we would have a lot in common. As it is I wouldn’t say I really identify with Sam (or with any character really. most of the shows and stories I like I don’t have someone I really identify with) and that it may actually be why I don’t find myself very drawn to Sam or his storylines. I like Sam (probably more as I’m rewatching now than I have in the past) but its not often that I’m super invested in his individual arcs or storylines.

#supernatural #spn ask game #also i think there's a lot i agree with you about regarding spn #but i think with the last two questions you managed to ask me the things that elicited me talking about some of the points #where our opinions most diverge

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