#Would they count as trans?

[empress-leo]

Okay so I just had to do some research into Tiresias, a generally minor character from Greek mythology. These days he's mostly known for being a blind prophet and for also turning into a woman for seven years as a punishment, but it turns out that there is so much more to their story than that. Because it generally gets confusing about what gender they are, I will be referring to Tiresias (T) as they/them for the sake of clarity.

So first of, the two main stories that are in modern day mythology books are these:

That T was born a man, came across two snakes having sex one day and hit them with a stick, which angered Hera so she turned T into a woman.

That T was born a man, and accidentally saw Athena bathing, so she blinded T and turned T into a woman, but felt bad so gave T the powers of prophecy.

But T may have a much more interesting and longer story than this, including not one, not two, but eight sex changes throughout their life. Now we don't know too much about the actual content of the story, as the only surviving records of the six to eight sex changes that T goes through are either from fragmentary works from Hesiod or pseudo-Hesiod, and a summary of the lost elegiac poem Tiresias by Ptolemaeus Chennus or Sostratos of Phanagoria.

There are references to the story of Tiresias in the Bibliotheca, however this one simply tells the Athena story, which isn't referenced by earlier writers.

However, reconstructing the story of Tiresias as told by Hesiod and Ptolemaeus Ch. we get something which looks like this.

T was originally born female, and early on in life Apollo took a fancy to T, and so went to have sex with them. T agreed on the condition that Apollo teach T how to play music first, which he did, but then T refused to sleep with Apollo, which made him made so he turned T into a man 'so T would feel the arrow of Eros'.

Having been turned into a man, T was asked to mediate an argument between Zeus and Hera, about who had more fun during sex, men or women. T said, having been both, said that women have more fun. As punishment, Hera turned T into a woman.

After been turned into a woman, T laughed at a statue of Hera and Hera turned T into a ugly old man as punishment.

Zeus took pity on T, and turned T into a woman at the 'bloom of her youth'

When T was bathing one day, a man called Glyphius tried to rape T, but T is too strong and strangles him. Since Glyphius was a favourite of Poseidon, he takes T to court who turn T into a man as punishment. They also took away T's skill at prophecy.

T attended the wedding of Peleus and Thetis (The parents of Achilles. This is the wedding which kicked off the trojan war) and judged an apparently unrelated beauty contest to the one with Eris and the golden apple, this one between Aphrodite and the Graces, Pasithea, Euphrosyne, and Cale. T chose Cale as the most beautiful, and as punishment Aphrodite changed T into an ugly old woman, though Cale took pity on T and gave them a really good head of hair.

[...] at this the goddess became angry and changed T into a mouse, and this is why mice eat very little, as they had once been an old lady, and also why mice are prophetic.

Now this gives us with some questions, but one main one. How did T become a prophet? Well, this ties into the version of the story with Athena, recounted by Ovid in his Metamorphoses. As a man, T sees Athena naked and makes T blind as a punishment. T's mother, the nymph Chariclo, begs Athena to change T back, but Athena refuses. Chariclo then washes T's ears, which gives T the power of prophecy, because T can now understand the cries of the Augury bird.

Another question is why, if T had judged that women have more fun during sex, would she turn T into a woman as punishment. Now you could argue a certain more assaulty reason, but the punishment makes much more sense if we put the story about the snakes before T mediates the argument.

The story goes that T, as a man, comes across a pair of snakes having sex and hits them with a stick, causing them to break apart. Hera objects to this, and so turns T into a woman as a punishment and T becomes a priestess of Hera. Then T mediates the argument, and T turns into a man. This isolated version of the story is one that survived to most modern mythologies.

Now there are several more things, but we really don't know too much about anything to do with Tiresias really, as the best work we know of which details his whole life is fragmentary at best and completely lost at worse. There are a ton of miscellaneous notes and facts about him. Apprently Zeus gave T a lifespan seven times longer than that of a human. He might've been blinded for knowing the secrets of the gods. He frequently communicated with the dead in order to tell his prophecies, and when Odysseus went to the land of the dead T was the only person that recognised him. Not even Odysseus' mother could recognise him without drinking a special drink. The word Tiresias was also a by-name for a prophet in ancient Greece. He was a reoccurring character in Greek Tragedies, most notably in the Bacchae, where he joins in the bacchic revels. He also assists Oedipus in the murder investigation of Laius, the previous king, and dies after drinking tainted water and getting shot by Apollo.

Tiresias is characterised as an extremely old prophet who communicates with birds and the dead, and has knowledge of the lives of Men, Women, and the gods.

That's fucking badass, and it pains me to know that'll we'll never know more than that.

source: Supplimentum Hellenisticum

#mythology #greek mythology #long reads #long post #ancient greece #ancient greek #tw: r*pe #Oedipus #Tiresias #genderfluid #trans #Would they count as trans? #I suppose they're not willingly trans #so maybe not #characters #funnily enough at the end of the passage about Tiresias there's a footnote #*apparently something similar happened to Caenus as well #like what #how often do the gods changes people's gender on a whim #moral of the story #piss off the gods to get a free sex change #or wash your ears to become a prophet #or both!

[gay-otlc]

The people who think gay trans man have straight privilege because they have the "option" to "escape" homophobia and live as straight women are blatantly disregarding the fact that for a lot of trans people, the options aren't "gay trans man" or "cis straight woman." It's "gay trans man" or "dead."

#this post was inspired by my friend (mostly stealth trans man) who has dealt with a lot of homophobia from his bf's parents #and transphobes might make the argument that the homophobia he faced doesn't count because he could have just lived as a woman #and then dated his bf more safely #but i genuinely don't think he would be alive right now if he hadn't been able to transition #so yeah. just being a woman to escape homphobia isn't really an option for a lot of trans men #transandrophobia #apologies if this is not my place to speak about as a straight trans man. i was just having thoughts and wanted to share

[transmascissues]

“people who present hyperfemininely but repeatedly point out the fact that they’re men are transphobic” i just KNOW these people are incapable of being normal about feminine and non-passing trans men.

i feel like the venn diagram of “people who get upset at other people for looking too much like women while still openly identifying as men” and “people who called us trenders back in the day and now spend their free time shitting on trans men who use the women’s bathroom for safety or talk about how being raised as girls affects us or talk about experiencing misogyny or consider our attraction to women sapphic or call ourselves femboys or are multigender and also women or…” has to be a circle.

i could not care less about a twitch streamer i don’t watch or the discourse surrounding them, but i do start caring when i see the discourse descend into a bunch of trans people calling gender nonconformity transphobic and saying people who look like women aren’t allowed to assert their identity as men.

#im sure there are things that he should be criticized for bc no one is perfect #but this? is not one of them #these motherfuckers would shit their pants if they saw how historically intertwined trans and crossdressing communities have been #transandrophobia #transandromisia #transmisandry #virilmisia #virilphobia #anti transmasculinity #transmascphobia #trans men #transmascs #examples of transandrophobia #<- it’s indirect but i’m still counting it bc idk how else to tag it

[sonknuxadow]

#sonic the hedgehog #sth #vector the crocodile #my art #i guess this counts as art. #for the record hes not cishet hes literally a trans man i know because i know him personally #i just thought he would be the funniest character for this

[sangthael]

bonus additions from when i was binging dan vs s1

#dan vs #dan vs revival #dan mandel #chris pearson #elise pearson #dan* #what would elise chris and dan even be called. i don’t think i’ve seen them with a name #i’m going to name them #wheelshipping #bc of dans pride in being the third wheel in s1e17 #idk but they’re all gay and in a polycule i think #also dan is trans and rage autistic #my art #buddyshipping #idk they’re holding hands whatever it counts #cuddleshipping

[neos-nero]

* SANESSS AFFIRMS YOUR GENDER

I made this for trans day of visibility and I felt silly

#utmv #sans au #does he even count #i might be going crazy #trans #trans day of visibility #I WOULD LIKE TO CLARIFY I AM TRANS #art #digital art #SANESSS #sans #yes it’s that sr pelo meme sans #the gender is gendering #the gender affirmer #silly little guy #the tags are all over the place

[ro-ro-bbbi]

Hobie and gwen are besties and they're so cuteeee 🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️

They would have so many silly fake arguments and fight and then they cuddle and kiss eachother's noses and play together and make songs together and make fun of eachother's crushes and they bond so much bc they're both queer and they have very serious conversations about gwen's dad and her peter and her whole 'no friends' thing and hobie's family and his canon events and he being touch straved and all the trauma that he has that we still don't know about and they have actually arguments about her lying to herself and isolating herself and believing miguel's bullishit and maybe after she made peace with her father she would go back living with him but hobie doesnt agree bc he scared and he doesnt like george bc he literally pointed a gun to her head and he saw how many of his friends have been killed or hurt by the police or by their own parents and he wont let that happen again and he cares so much and he is so protective of his lil drummer and gwen loves him so much but also just wants a father and they would have so many nicknames for eachother and-

#I have way too many thoughts about them #Like- i did thhink about the nicknames they would give to eachother #Gwen calls him plushie and hobie too many to count #Giving nicknames as love language #Physical touch love language #love langauges #physical touch #I said bestie but they can also be lover #My fav tho is a queer platonic relationship #qpr #queerplatonic relationship #queer platonic partner #But i just love them in any shape and form #Trans solidarity #Pls so real #hobie brown #across the spiderverse #spider punk #gwen stacy #atsv #spiderverse #spiderman across the spiderverse #spider gwen #ghost spider #trans gwen stacy #genderqueer hobie brown #trans hobie brown #transness #queerness #atsv spider punk

[astranauticus]

Ad astra per aspera

#rolling with difficulty #vr-la rwd #mr-sn rwd #rwd #uhhhh im bad at tagging #anyway ive wanted to draw something with this specific composition for AGES so thanks for the excuse #and also for getting to use that caption #man. i have like a soft spot for that saying cuz its the motto of my sec sch science club #and man i loved that dumb club so much #i was already kinda loving just the 'ship called per aspera' bit but once the whole phrase became relevant? oh boy #unrelated side note but like 4 of my friends from that club later turned out to be specifically trans/nb #(5 if you count myself) #which is. so bloody funny to me #youd think all the queers would end up in theatre or some shit but no! science and math. for some reason #i was like 'i should probably keep polishing this' and then i realised my ipad was at 10% so nevermind. also i have no impulse control #art I made

[catgirlknighted]

Roommate Walks in on You 😳

What if you just kinda were lazily touching your cock and a roommate walks in, sees you quickly hide it away all flustered, & insists you stop hiding it immediately while sitting on the couch with you. After all if you were confident enough to just have it out for the world to see, what’s wrong with them seeing it?

Shouldn’t have had it out in the first place if you didn’t wanna get caught! Such a little pervert, give me that! Let me feel it, wow so throbby all the sudden! Now you’re leaking on my hands too? What’s wrong with you? You must be enjoying how my hands feel, perv! I think you’ll like this even more since you’re such a slut. Mmmm wow you taste great! You’re out of breath? So pathetic, make more noises for me. If my mouth feels this good you should just cum inside! Cmon loser! Fucking cum in my mouth, squirt, take responsibility for making me see your cock! Good little pervert cumming for me. Such a good little thing! Okay, see you later! 💖

#I was sitting on a couch airing my thing out & just had this thought & instantly my body reacted #roommate walking in on you fantasy real I guess o/////o #if any of my current or future roommates find this no worries I’m not gonna do this unless we talk about it before hand #I’m not going to argue with random strangers about the morals of playing pretend with my fellow adults lol #but yeah anyway this would be really hot #imagine if a roommate took advantage of you like wow 😵 #so who wants to be the special roommate? :3 tell me in the tags on replies #humiliation kink #degredation kink #slight cnc #trans cnc #exhibition kink #slight exhibitionism #not sure if this counts as that but tagging just in case #rose.txt #my writing #ns/ft trans #trans nsft #nsft trans #trans sub

[uncanny-tranny]

If the only people who laugh at your jokes or respond to you positively are bigots - and you yourself disavow those opinions - maybe it's time to analyze why it is that they feel safe around you. While you might not be intentionally bigoted in those ways, there is still a reason that somebody who's transphobic, anti-Black, whatever it may be, really, feels it is okay to be open about those bigotries.

#politics #like i can't count the amount of trans people with like 'trans lib NOW' in their bio who post things that transphobes react to positively... #...as in like 'i agree with this statement because [transphobia from their end]' like. please analyze why they feel safe around you!! #like what i'm talking about is attracting those people (bigots) because they've interpreted statements as a signal that you are Safe to them #would there be some things transphobes agree with me on? i guess so *but* i do not tolerate any transphobia... #...so typically even if they agree with something i have said they still realize this community/myself will just... not entertain it #there's a difference between 'bigots have found my account/me irl and are harassing me' and 'these people feel safe to be bigoted' #('because they think i am bigoted too')

[the-save-star-anomaly]

New hyperfixation kicked in, so I drew our vessel in the style of the game. Kind of

it isnt very polished, it's been a while since I really drew something

#cultist simulator #self portrait #plural artist #trans artist #queer artist #brazilian artists #artists on tumblr #digital artist #small artist #drawing #art on tumblr #digital drawing #my art #digital art #original art #art #I'm proud of myself #fanart #(I think it counts?? since I drew what the vessel would look like if it was in the game) #singletsona #(kind of)

[sorrowfulwill]

comfort art because I’m constantly gender sad

I wanna be him sometimes

#would this count as slight nudity I don’t want to make anyone uncomfortable #if it makes you uncomfortable just tell me in my ask box and I’ll add a cut before the art #transmasc #trans #trans tape #comfort art #digital art #will cipher #art #doodle #reverse falls

[someguythatdrawsstuff]

I'm going feral I want these outfits so fucking badly

Thanks Pinterest

#pinterest #not my photos #sfw femboy #transmasc femboy #trans femboy #alternative #would these count as alt fashion? #finding my style

[bugbuoyx]

I think it's funny when people say trans men don't experience misogyny. I experience it alot as an out and proud and obvious trans person. Most folks are good, they don't blink an eye (even in the rural south) but for some you can see it like a switch. The biggest tell in my experience is they start treating you like the world's biggest idiot. Like you couldn't possibly know more than them about anything. I also tend to get babied, people stop letting me do things I was doing previously such as lifting heavy stuff and outdoorsy type work.

I just think it's ridiculous that the most basic elements of misogyny, elements that have been defined and discussed for years, no longer count as misogyny because it's directed at a trans guy. How do people even claim it's "misdirected" (which is such a bullshit word irt oppression) it's all very clearly directed at me for having formerly been a woman*. And what of my time spent living as a girl? Does all that misogyny mysteriously disappear, all of my former experiences rendered moot by the fact I'm now a guy*.

I haven't even gotten into how cis men can be misogynistic towards each other but rad fems and people who pretend they aren't rad fems but boil misogyny down to "woman only oppression" like to ignore that. What do you call it when a cis guy shames another guy by calling him a pussy? "You hit like a girl" anyone? You can't explain this away as "misdirected" because the intended target is not a girl, is not mistakenly being perceived as a girl, it is a deliberate act of misogyny in order to enforce the patriarchal status quo.

#misogyny #transmasc #transphobia #im bad at tags negl but w/e #i bet if i sniffed out the origins of “misdirected” it would come from rad feminism #like i dont think people realize exactly how much radical feminism has invaded queer spaces its so bad its literally everywhere #its in the heavy separation of gender in the accusations that certain peoples (depending on your flavor of radfem) experiences dont count #its in the black and white view of the world #of misogyny being the only oppression that matters and everything else is coincidental the idea that men cant be oppressed at all ever #of the idea that theres one person who is the most oppressed and collecting and wielding identities like oppression points #except your points dont count if you are actually oppressed such as black trans folks who are regularly silenced #seriously though the idea that no man ever has ever faced oppression especially from a woman is so funny like i live in the rural south -- #-- and i still learned in school that there were black men who were violently murdered bc cis white women accused them of rape #but yallre like wasnt misogyny wasnt a girl he deserved it for being a nasty stinky man uwu #which is disgusting racism but if you point that out youre a misogynist not allowing women to “vent” about their oppression #transandrophobia

[championsofthegate]

//I haven't talked about Gale being trans much on here mostly because I don't have any super solid thoughts about it yet and also I don't exactly know how being trans would work in dnd but

*waves hands in the air* that wizard is trans baby

#down by the river || ooc #Elminster was a woman for a while but I don't know if that counts lmao #if anyone was gonna trans their gender with magic it would be Gale lmao #this is my way of reminding everyone this is a trans inclusive space lmao #transphobes need not apply

[tiredsoundsofagnes]

felt cute some days ago! have some pics!

#tireddiary #trans punx #that’s me #transsexual #transfem #transgender #would this count as a goth fit #INFERNÖH #one of Malmö’s finest bands #Spotify