#IS THAT I JUST RELISTENED TO THE BEGINNING OF S2 | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

cookinguptales · 4 months

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So... Dante's Inferno. I promised my second post would be a deep dive into the parallels and allusions being made to Dante in s2 of Malevolent. In other words, I'm going to finally make my case for you.

I think it's a pretty good one! But I guess whether you agree with me is up to you.

I'll preface this by saying that the last time I read the Inferno cover-to-cover was about fifteen years ago. I did some skimming to reacquaint myself while relistening to this season, but I didn't do a deep dive. So let's just call this an inexhaustive list, okay? I'm sure there are more examples than I'm going to throw out in this post, but I figured that I'm writing a tumblr meta not a dissertation, so it would be okay if I didn't have every single potential allusion.

I'll also say that any quotes I make are from the Mandelbaum translation just because it's by far the easiest to understand. I'm not going to be doing citations or anything (again, not a dissertation) but if you want to know any of my sources, just drop me a line and I'll be happy to drop the canto.

(cw: discussions of suicide, violence, and general Christianity)

As I said before, I believe that the Dreamlands, as Arthur Lester experienced them, were a manifestation of Dante's Dis that The King in Yellow used specifically to give Arthur a path towards penitence and salvation, hoping that he would eventually allow himself some sort of "divine forgiveness."

In other words, the KIY forced Arthur to face the punishments of the last four circles of Dante's Inferno in the hopes that it would cause Arthur to let go of his guilt, and therefore his attachment, to Faroe. And then, of course, he could make his move.

(In plainer English, sometimes a person who is dreaming wishes that they were dreaming, not knowing that they already are. Like that, Dante wanted to be forgiven for his actions not realizing that he already was. Dreamlands, penitence, guilt, etc. It's a whole thing.)

I'm going to try to stay on track in this post because there's a lot to cover. I'm going to talk about some of these concepts and themes a lot more in-depth later, but for now I just wanna lay out some very surface-level observations.

Dis is a gated section of Dante's Hell that includes circles 6-9 -- in other words, the circles dedicated to punishing the heretics, the violent, the fraudulent, and the traitors.

We should probably technically start with 6 and make our way down, but the ordering gets a little fuzzy as we go, so I'm going to structure this a little differently.

This is my meta so frankly I'm going to do what I like here. I'm just going to talk about these in the order I find them most compelling.

The first part of s2 that really made me sit up and take notice was the living forest that Arthur and John pass through near the beginning of the Dreamlands. Dante's forest of souls in the seventh circle is one of the most famous and lingering images of the entire poem, so it immediately caught my attention.

I'm going to be dedicating an entire post just to this forest, so I won't go into too much detail here, but there is a forest in the seventh circle where the trees are black and gnarled, like the ones in the Dreamlands, and like the ones in the Dreamlands, they were watered with blood.

These are the bodies of souls who committed suicide, and Dante is told that when the end times come and Hell is emptied out, when all of the other souls are reunited with their bodies, these souls, in punishment for taking their physical bodies for granted, will be forced to carry their own corpses hanging from their branches.

These trees can speak and bleed, and -- I mean, there's a lot to say about themes of suicide and self-sacrifice in s2. There's even more to say about this concept of protecting your physical body, not giving it up, and not allowing yourself to be separated from it. And then what does it mean when John and Arthur sacrifice a piece of themselves to this living wood in the end...?

Those are questions for a later post. But the parallels between the Dreamlands forest and that in the Inferno seem clear -- and that's before the winged monsters come. Yes, that happens in the Inferno, too, and they're Harpies.

(*looks into the camera like Kermit the Frog*)

There is also depiction of dismemberment in this section of Inferno, which is another pretty crucial similarity to Malevolent.

Ugh, I did get bogged down in some details. Let's be brief with the rest of 7.

Other key punishments found in the seventh circle of Hell and also the Dreamlands: a sea of red sand in a desert that is so hot that it constantly burns you, a vast ravine, an incredibly painful storm, and various red bodies of water surrounded by black rocks. Different water does different things, but none of it's really good. It's probably good that John and Arthur didn't go in the red or purple lakes.

(Perhaps more of a stretch, when Dante and Virgil are taken to the next circle of Hell, it's via a huge serpentine creature that can sting people. It's not exactly the same as the snake in the boat... but well. It is a serpent and a boat is a method of conveyance.)

Circle 8 -- fraud. Circle 8 is comprised of these things called "malebolge", and I've seen a lot of different translations of that word. The male- part is easy -- it's the same one that we see in "malevolent". Evil. The -bolge part I've seen translated as pouches, ditches, trenches, and... well, pits.

There is this really, really, really long part of the poem where they go around to all the pits to see all the different kinds of punishment for fraud. I'm not going to be exhaustive here, nor do I think that all of it lines up quite as 1:1 as it did in circle 7. Some of these things I'm about to point out I think are stretches but others I think are pretty clear.

The two main parallels to circle 8 that I see in Malevolent are the giant pit that they fall into (where they encounter the creature that's being fed) and the smaller prison pits that they're later trapped in by the KIY.

Let's talk about the cave system first. When Dante and Virgil first enter Dis (and in other parts going forward) they struggle with a lot of uneven, gravelly terrain that Dante occasionally falls on. (Created by earthquakes that happened because of Jesus, but that's not important.) That does seem to correspond to the gravelly ground that gave way beneath Arthur and John to send them into the vast blackness that has quite a bit in common with a few of the malebolge. One malebolge is an endless black void that Dante eventually realizes is filled with black pitch. (See: the endless darkness of the pit.) Another is filled with stench and refuse, like the rotting remnants of the creature's dinners. Another involves heads being wrenched from their place and turned around in their sockets, reminiscent of Arthur's dislocated arm.

Other malebolge seem to align with later experiences, like when they are in the ritual halls and in the prison pits themselves. There are two malebolge that seem to speak to Arthur's concern that John will either be separated from him or take over his body: one pit contains dragon-like snakes that bite the punished sinners, then slowly transform into the sinner as the sinner becomes the snake; the other pit involves people being quite literally cleaved in two.

(From the part where the dragons become one with the sinners, then take their bodies. Sounds familiar!)

A third malebolge contains sinners who are being tortured with incessant thirst, like Lorick the cana.

So I do think that the actual contents of these evil pits come up fairly often throughout Arthur's travails, but I think the much bigger issue, and the one that maps more clearly onto Arthur's time in the Dreamlands, is the concept of pits designed to punish prisoners in the first place. The description of the malebolge (circular pits surrounded by a huge wall that encircles all of them) is similar to that of the prison pits (many circular pits that are encircled by a huge wall) and, like the sinners bound to their malebolge, John and Arthur are being tortured in their prison pit as well.

Even more interesting, I think, is a particular sinner that can be found later in the 9th circle. (Forgive me for jumping ahead a bit, but you'll see in a moment why I'm doing it.) There's a man named Ugolino that Dante encounters in the lake of ice who is frozen to another man -- and Ugolino is eating that man's head. Why? Because in life, that man held Ugolino and his children prisoner and purposefully starved them.

Now -- this next part is argued over by both translators and scholars (one of the translators I consulted for this had a whole diatribe about this in the middle of his translation, lmao) but what I'm about to say does seem to be an accepted interpretation of the text. I even checked Sparknotes and it's the only interpretation they give, so I assume that regardless of what Dante intended, this is a common modern understanding of the scene.

Ugolino, after his children had died (arguably due to his own actions), was forced to consume their flesh.

(Some scholars say he just starved to death, but again, even Sparknotes is a big proponent of the cannibalism theory. lmao)

So... we have a story about a prisoner being denied food specifically to demoralize him and force him to feed on the flesh of his fellow prisoners. That sounds familiar. :')

(And "Faust", of course, is an allusion to another literary figure who dealt with the devil...)

I think that regardless of how well the specific punishments of the pits fit Arthur's journey (I'd say... so-so, depending on the punishment), the concept of punishment pits in general is strongly associated with the Dreamlands, and what happened to Arthur in those pits is uh. Let's just say that Dante did it first.

Now... before I go onto the ninth circle, one of the clearest, most obvious, and in some ways most fascinating allusions to Dante, I'll quickly backtrack to the sixth circle of Hell, heresy.

Heresy is a complicated thing in a universe that contains both Christianity and a lot of other gods, and I think it's certainly dealt with in s2, but maybe in not quite the same ways...

The description of the sixth circle of Hell is pretty quick and pretty sparse. Essentially, it's a vast plain of open tombs that are surrounded by fire. They're made of stone and the people inside them are supposed to be dead, but they are unable to rest, instead being roasted alive inside of their tombs.

I puzzled over this one for a while, and I think it's still entirely possible that it was meant to be skipped altogether in Malevolent. But. There is a part at the very beginning of s2 that never quite seemed to tie into the rest of the narrative, and I wonder if, in a way, it was meant to be one of these stone tombs.

A stone building, like the stone tombs indicated by Dante. Roofs of red iron, like the stone heated to "glowing heat" that Dante likened to hot iron...

A large hole in the ground. Perhaps a stack of firewood...

Inhabitants thought to be "departed" but clearly still very much still here...

I don't know. Could be an allusion to the fiery tombs of the living dead. Hard to say.

It's hard to know where he was going with this portion, honestly. I get the impression that something might have been headed off by an audience decision here, so idk where it would have gone if it had found its logical conclusion. The souls in the sixth circle can see the future (but not the present), so it could have been something pretty cool.

Ah, well. Hard to know.

I'll get back to more solid ground. The ninth circle.

The ninth circle of Hell, home of traitors (including Satan himself), is one of the most well-known parts of the poem. At the bottom of Hell is, quite infamously, a frozen lake of ice.

I mentioned poor Ugolino before, but there are other prisoners of the ice who are also very interesting.

One in particular, Branca d’Oria, seems thematically important. This was kind of a weird addition to Dante's Hell. See, Branca d’Oria was a real-live person who was still alive when this was written. How is a living person in Hell? Well, Dante asked him that in the poem, too.

According to The Inferno, Branca d’Oria's crime (the murder of his father-in-law) was so terrible that his soul was taken down to Hell while he was still alive, and his soul was replaced with a devil who took control of his body.

(If you think that a simple murder doesn't seem worse than all the other stuff in Hell, I guess... this is kind of Dante being a true crime girlie...?)

Regardless of Dante's writing choices, I think you can see why this one caught my eye. Once Arthur and John get to the lake of ice, their imminent confrontation with the KIY has them both wondering if just that will happen to Arthur. Will a devil (John) take control of his body and cast his soul out?

There are a lot of passages of Dante that are concerned with the attachment of the soul to the body, so I'll probably do an entire post on that. Lot of stuff about whether souls can be severed from their mortal form, whether they can be replaced by other spirits, etc.

Kayne specifically brings up this question (as does the KIY) in the lake of ice, which brings me to the other really fascinating part of the ninth circle.

Caina.

(Yes, named for that Cain.)

Caina is the portion of the lake of ice that is reserved specifically for people who have killed family members. It's part of the realm of traitors, not murderers, and is considered particularly heinous. Dante finds two brothers who are being punished by being quite literally frozen together.

(Again, two souls, one body, one whole, there's a vibe here.)

I talked a little bit about Kayne before... I don't think he's bound to this part of the Inferno, or even an organic part of it, but I do think that he's consciously playing along with it. After all, he chose to meet Arthur and John in the frozen lake. He chose to call himself Kayne. It's not his real name. That seems pretty clear. But it's what he chose to call himself.

He lured Arthur in with the music box symbolizing his dead daughter. He dirtied it with blood. He purposefully leaned into Arthur's guilt about "murdering" his daughter. And he called himself Kayne.

Feels pointed to me.

And I do think Kayne very certainly belongs in the ring reserved for traitors. lmao. I cannot imagine that he's not fucking the two of them over somehow.

Side note, I'd also say that the description of amphitheater-like rooms feels like an allusion to the Inferno right there. Its circles are shaped like an amphitheater with the lake of ice right in the center!

And just to be clear, it points both up and down. When they get to Satan and fly past him, the same shape is going out the other way. (Through the earth's core.)

The final really big allusion to Dante is not an allusion to the Inferno at all, but to Purgatorio/Paradiso. I am speaking, of course, of the garden.

A garden that his followers can't enter... A garden where things are presumably safe... A garden where Arthur finally comes to true understanding...

I mean. It's Eden, right? Of course it's Eden.

And Arthur, in his own way, is partaking of the fruit.

Eden is actually where Purgatorio ends and Paradiso begins, in Dante's travels. There's... a lot to be said here, about "Earthly Paradise", as it's called in Dante, and how it's a symbol of regaining innocence, its connections with Beatrice, etc. But I'll leave that for another post.

The reason why it's important here, though, is that it symbolizes an escape from Hell. It's what Dante found after going through all the punishments of Hell, after meeting Satan, after regaining his metaphorical innocence. It's what the KIY was dangling in front of Arthur as escape, both from the Dreamlands and his own guilt.

The fact that it was used to manipulate, to hurt, to fake Arthur out, is actually such an interesting twist on the source material. I kind of love it.

(I'll also just say real quick that I believe that the selenine (while existing as a cure-all in other Lovecraft literature) is actually a parallel to the waters of Lethe, which can also be found in Dante's Earthly Paradise. This is water that makes you forget your past and all past sins so you can become purified and continue on to heaven! Or get your ass snatched by the King in Yellow! I'll talk about this more later!)

And then... y'know, there's Daniel.

I have a lot to say about Daniel in the future, but for now... I think this is what it all kind of boils down to.

Like yes... on a surface level, there are a lot of Dantean punishments in this book. Yes, Arthur starts rambling about the Minotaur, who guards the seventh circle of Hell. Yes, there are tons of little asides and allusions to the cosmology of this universe.

But I think this here is the key. This whole dream is about judgment from a god that Arthur no longer believes in and absolution that will never come.

Arthur is, quite frankly, out of options. He's been clinging to this guilt and shame for a very long time now, and he sees no real possibility for forgiveness from God or anyone. Only punishment.

So... the KIY gives him God's punishment. But do the tortures of the Inferno really make Arthur come to terms with his own guilt? Not in the way the KIY wants, obviously, but... I mean, I do think there is some growth there. I just don't think it came from the torture.

Arthur wanted to be tortured. He thinks he deserves to be tortured. To be punished. That comes up... many times throughout the podcast. But it isn't punishment that helps him come to terms with his own actions, that help him come to live quietly with his guilt.

It's love.

And Dante's Inferno, at its heart, is about love. According to Dante, the deepest depths of Hell are frozen because ice is the lack of warmth, and a lack of warmth is the lack of love.

Because here's what Dante's Commedia is about, from beginning to end. Dante is having a crisis of faith and his lost love, his dear deceased Beatrice, orchestrates this journey (and eventually becomes his guide) from her place in heaven and saves his soul on earth -- through her love.

I'll talk about this more later, I swear I will, but for now... The KIY gave Arthur the Hell he thought he deserved because he wanted Arthur to find grace through penitence. The King wanted Arthur to give up his past so he could steal his future.

But what Arthur actually gleaned from this awful experience is perhaps closer to what Dante actually intended his message to be. That closing yourself off from others, that hurting others, that betraying others, these are all the worst sins. In the end, it's a violation of human connection that will damn you.

And the only real way to salvation is through love.

I feel like in some ways this is the largest allusion of all, opaque as it is. This is what the entire poem is about. Not just gawking at punishments but finding growth through love.

It's about learning that shame can't fix you, y'know? Love and support are an awful lot more effective if you truly wish to change.

And that, my friends, is Dante's Divine Comedy. :')

#literary analysis like this is the equivalent of giving me a kong toy full of peanut butter jsyk #malevolent podcast #long post #really really long post

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lycanlovingvampyre · 1 year

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MAG 123 Relisten

Activity on my first listen: putting up a new fence (moved again to a different part of the property... I've been patching that fence for years and I got so much done during TMA!)

Web Development, ha! (I know, I know, I'm easily amused...)

JON: (salty) "Coma, great! Let’s rearrange his office. Sleeping people don’t need – pens." [HE STEPS IN SOMETHING WITH A SQUELCH!] JON: "Euagh! What –" Up until this point Jon (and first-listeners) doesn't know what happened yet. Seems like there is still some residue from the Flesh attack, hehe. That’s also the reason they *had* to throw Jon's cloths out. Interesting, that the jar of ashes survived. I'd guess Martin still was there for the clean-up? My headcanon is, he was the one who wanted to go through Jon's office, trying to salvage things and managed to sufficiently clean up the jar to keep it. It gave Jon some closure and feeling of safety back then, I'd totally understand, if Martin wanted to preserve that.

MELANIE: "Tim is dead. Daisy is dead, and you – what, you’re just fine?" JON: "What – no! I’ve been in hospital for six months!" MELANIE: "Something has been in hospital. Something that’s got your face" Even though Melanie and Basira weren't too affected by the Not!Them (Basira almost not at all, she never met the real Sasha), that trauma still sits so deep with all of them. They know the Fears are not benevolent, and one of those things got Jon to wake up. (Also yeah, Slaughter bullet)

MELANIE: "I warned Basira; I said not to let you back in here, but she just" (increasingly angry; starts slamming [the wall]) "doesn’t! listen!" Lydia really nails the rage here. How the voice begins to break.

MELANIE: "Oh! Okay, so it’s what, hi Jon, how are you, get anyone killed lately?" JON: (dumbstruck) "I – I –" MELANIE: "Wipe that look off of your face. Like you’re not the reason all of this is happening! (she takes a breath) Like you’re any better than – than him!" This is hurtful on so many levels. And Jon and Melanie let us know what an impact this had on Jon (Jon being speechless and Melanie making a comment on the look on his face). Jon hasn't been the friendliest of people, but since MAG 22 he’s been on a steady path to change. All of his actions have been either hypervigilance from being traumatized as a kid (which is a defense mechanism. Learn all about everything, you'll hopefully be a step ahead and things can't hurt you - in S2 this really ended in bad actions. Like I understand why he's been paranoid, but the others also don't have to tolerate this from him) or (and this has been all of S3) trying to keep others safe, including Melanie. He just didn’t know how to do it. Mr. Spider taught him if other people get involved, they’ll get hurt. And then Elias, comparing Jon to Elias. As if Elias hasn't hurt Jon enough as well, even if it wasn't that obvious, especially not for the others. Elias' grooming Jon into things he never wanted is just so disgusting to me.

MELANIE: "No! You don’t, do you? He’s still alive. You are still alive. So this place is still –" See above. (The worst of this: She's kind of right! If Jon dies, they'll go free.)

JON: "Okay." [HE TAKES A LONG, SHAKY BREATH.] JON: "I’m sorry." T_T (Yeah, if it wasn't clear from the first two episodes of S4, this is going to be one huge punch to the gut after the other.)

BASIRA: "Alright. Best I can understand it, Beholding, or the Eye, or… whatever you wanna call it, we’re one of the only powers that hasn’t taken a shot at a ritual. Yet. And everything out there knows it." JON: "No – I mean, we can’t be the only ones, surely." Funny thing, this about the Eye haven’t taken a shot at a ritual yet stayed very strongly with me the first time around. So much, that I ignored all the clues that Elias is trying to do exactly this (Gerry in MAG 111 about the Watcher's Crown, Basira later to Elias in prison about him kicking off his little ritual from a jail cell). I bunched the Eye up with the End and the Web (because they also don’t have a ritual as we'll later learn) even though my sister already went "No no, the Eye has the Watcher's Crown" and then I went full Surprised Pikachu Face when things finally happened.

BASIRA: "Yeah, it was bad. We took them all out. Melanie did most of them. She was… she got a knife from somewhere and –" JON: (overlapping) "Basira I-I don’t know if that’s a good sign?" BASIRA: "She saved my life, Jon. She saved all of us. I won’t forget that." Oh, the hypocrisy of this. But we know, that Basira's heavily playing favorites in this season. Jon being back is not a good sign, but when Jon points out Melanie's unending rage and superhuman knife strength, it's okay because sHe SaVeD BaSiRa's LiFe? As if Jon wasn't part of the saving-the-world-from-the-Unknowing-crew, does that not count? (Speaking from a point of their knowledge at this time, of course.)

BASIRA: "Don’t be too hard on him, Jon. Your, uh, situation. It hit him. Hard." JON: (sighs) "Yes. Well, I’m sure there are better ways to deal with it than getting – cozy with Elias’s successor." Jealous? :)

BASIRA: (sighs) "Rumor is a couple of researchers up on the third floor decided to ignore some of his new directives, and… whoosh." I think it'd be really funny to see TMA from the eyes of someone not working in the Archives (or Rosie). Like all those people who have no idea what this place is. And how would they explain this event though. Two researchers suddenly disappearing...

JON: "Oh." [HE LAUGHS, BUT IT, TOO, IS HUMORLESS.] JON: "The more things change… So, we’re under siege, Melanie is aggressively unstable, Martin is working very closely with – The Lonely, who is predictably enough isolating him, and, oh, yes, uh, Tim and Daisy are still dead. (laughing) Which is at least easy to keep track of." There goes his sanity...

"As he told it, she was young, rail-thin underneath an oversized brown hoodie, which she kept pulled up, trying to cover up a network of pale stitches that stretched over one side of her head." Ha, totally forgot Annabelle was already in this. From what we heard about her from MAG 69, I don't know if this was even very obvious to spot when first listening? At that point, all we would know was that she got her head bashed in and dressed in vintage clothes? Oh and spiders of course...

"She just mumbled something about custom requirements and told Greg to drink his latte, which he did, so he tells me, though he can’t stand milk in his coffee." So subtle!

Chelicerae is btw what the "mandibles" or "fangs" of arachnids are actually called.

"According to those who followed such things, all you had to do was start a new thread as a Guest, something Greg had been instructed to make sure was possible, and the title of that thread should be the name of someone you want dead." A digital death note, gotcha! xD Okay, jokes aside, I love this and MAG 65, those internet creepy pastas!

"He rarely goes out anymore, and, judging by the cobwebs, he definitely doesn’t clean his house like he used to." There's no such thing as random cobwebs in TMA.

JON: "Another gap. And whoever took it didn’t do any follow-up, just… filed it away. I may be the first person to actually read it, so… (same mirthless cough of a laugh) Sorry, Angie. I suppose." There has already been some speculation about this as part of a mag a day. About the Archivist's dreams, how it works, who end up in there. This "Sorry, Angie", is it meant as an apology for the fact that their statement has been ignored for 2 years? Or is it meant for the possible situation of Angie now ending up in Jon's dreams, since the statement's been given after Gertrude's death and Jon is the first Archivist to read it. This would make Jon's diet even more complicated, having to resort to statements which Gertrude has already consumed in an attempt to not "curse" more people.

JON: "It’s unclear if they were meant to be users or victims, but I cannot help but note that there seem to be the names of several statement givers who found their way to the Institute, including noted arachnophobe Carlos Vittery." The name of the person who set the plot into motion. This should be a very loud clue about the Web pulling its strings all this time!

@a-mag-a-day

#a-mag-a-day #mag 123 #tma #tma spoilers

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pierogiinspace · 1 month

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Dungeons and daddies s2 [spoilers]

Long post thoughts after some time I took to think about it

So… It wasn’t bad but I feel like they really lost their footing midway

The ending felt rushed, we didn’t get any closure or big climax fight or anything. It just… stopped in the middle.

The beginning was cool. Monster of the week. Getting to know all of them. Interesting concepts, new characters. Worldbuilding

And then it… stopped? We circled back to just teens and old characters. Completely forgetting about everything that was new - like daddies hq

Not to mention that they did the same thing twice including backtracking (anchors and daddy juice)

S1 had a clear structure of

1. Gather kids

2. Gather anchors so you can leave

With additional shenanigans and growth in between

S2 was so messy you cant even explain it

1. Monster of the week (which was cool. We got to feel the vibe of teens and school and meet new characters)

2. Break anchors and destroy them with love or hate (still cool. But we lost the footing and started relaying only on old characters. Basically the end of them being actually kids and everything that had to do with that. Kiddads apprar but they are utterly useless with no explanation why)

3. Gather daddy juice to send dood home (basically the same thing, some even in the same locations, same characters, some literally 5feet away from eachother)

4. Get dood back and get rid of Willy

The next point is that Willy was both too powerful (somehow escaped them the first like 3 times) and too weak to matter (he didnt cause any threat really. He had to start failing because of “reasons” just not to spoil the plot).

And the ending

Literally nothing got resolved (except maybe Taylor getting fine with him not having dad). It just sopped. And I understand how people dont change immediately (like Normal suddenly made his dad(s) proud of him??) but its a fun story not real life. And our characters didnt really feel… completed. I feel like we could use some time to breathe between plot points to really feel the situation. I think a great example is the trial/prison arc in s1. It stops the main plot of going back but really expands on the characters (not only Glenn. As the dads have to also show their point of view)

Choosing teens instead of adults also felt short. They both felt too old and too young for actually being 14. And it was very compeling and unique in s1 to have coming of age story for adults.

I kinda wish the second half of the season would be teens vs Willy vs their parents. But their parents should be like “oh no you are not risking your life you are too young” and the teens avoiding them or spoiling their plans. And trying to prove they are grown up and still save the world the “right way”

I really enjoyed the first half of this season (I guess somewhere up to the church of Doodler episode)

And later it was ok. It had great moments because it is still made by the same people. Jokes were funny. The crew has the chemistry. But the overall thing was kinda… I will not be relistening for sure (except maybe first half. Especially the episode with FBI chase. Top tier episode and also the first episode I got to listen “live”)

I am open to discussions if anyone read it at this point. I am not writing that in hate. I am a patreon subscriber and I love the show and the people who create it. Its also why I hid it under read more. I dont want easy hate on the crew. But I am a little underwhelmed.

#dungeons and daddies #dndaddies #dndads #original post

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hermanunworthy · 9 months

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!DNDADS S2 EP40 SPOILERS!

ALRIGHTY PEOPLE. its time to enter a new arc! the fact that this episode is a longer one AND ALSO a two parter is so intimidating. what big stuff will happen i wonder

- HOW IS THE INTRO NOT HEY JUDE. WE WERE ROBBED

- IS THIS. ABOUT THE FUCKING MCDONALDS BIT. THE FUCKING OUT OF CHARACTER BIT THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO W THAT SUPER IMPORTANT EPISODE 😭😭 GOD

- I HATE THISSSSS WHYYYY

- that was the WORST intro. help.

- TAYLOR CAT FACT???

- NOOOOO TAYLOR IS A TIKTOK NPC LIVESTREAMER NOOOO

- WAIT WAIT WTF IS HAPPENING W LINC WHAT

- LINCOLN MR KICKS I CANT DO THIS HELPP

- this lincoln fact is actually very sad esp since ive been relistening to the earlier eps lately 😭 HE USED TO LOVE HIS DADS. MY SWEET LITTLE BOY.

- normals rad fact. this is just like that one drawing i did w him and linc w the garfield and odie hoodies except its garfield and nermal

- we better get tenmoku content this episode!!

- the message is coming from the school??

- god this is a disaster already what is going on

- is this crazy back and forth the reason why this episode is so long /hj

- i love dood

- A PERSON SUIT??? OH MY GOD WHAT IF THEY PUT DOOD IN THE TEENY COSTUME. PLZ PLZ PLZ

- YESSSSS LETS GOOOOO I WAS HOPING THIS WOULD HAPPEN

- OH SHIT THE COSTUME IS STILL IN GOOFS REALM HUH

- NORMAL HAVING A SPARE TEENY DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF HIM WEARING IT ALL THE TIME TO DEFEND IT FROM CHAPARRAL

- "fuck taylor u stupid fucking idiot" WHOA DOOD???

- its been a while since we gotta a good ol "ill kill u" from taylor

- HERMIE I SCREAMED. why am i like this

- ROLLING INSIGHT ON HERMIE FINALLY.

- NORMALS FINALLY QUESTIONING WHY HERMIES STILL THERE OHHHH MY GOD WHY IS THIS HAPPENING NOW OF ALL TIMES

- PLZ GOD SOMEONE ROLL WELL ON HERMIE IM DYING HERE

- this lincoln and grant thing is PAINFUL.

- HOW LONG IS THIS JOHN BIT GONNA GO

- BOSS KICKS.

- BACK TO SCHOOL YIPPEEEE

- SCAM!!!!!!!

- okay well the sign is talking about 5 of them but do they mean the pcs and dood or the pcs and hermie?

- ohhh hermies not on the sign. excluded once again

- whoa hermie achieved normals dream. being a Normal Teen

- SUCKY. SUCKY BOND. IM SCREMAING

- THIS PODCAST IS SO STUPID!!!!!

- THE FACT THAT NOW LINCOLN DOESNT EVEN BAT AN EYE WHEN PEOPLE GET KILLED. god he HAS changed since the beginning of the season

- HERMIE STFU (i love hermie and scary as a duo actually but HERMIE STFU)

- WILL AND FREDDIES BONDING MOMENT LMAOOO

- WHY IS ANTHONY MAKING THE SOUND EFFECTS FOR IT UGHHH

- hermie steals the mascot costume once again.

- i have no idea whats happening what is their plan im so confused

- GRAAANT he makes me so sad

- THE WILSON HANDSHAKE.

- LINCOLN IS SO FUNNY THIS EPISODE

- i was really hoping theyd be at school longer tbh

- i feel like im not commenting enough on everything happening im so lost

- HOLY SHIT THEY CAN CHANGE THEIR CLASSES NOW. OH MY GOD THEYRE ACTUALLY GONNA DO IT

- i. what even happened in that episode. okay

#dndads #dndads spoilers #dndads s2 spoilers #siren says

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chronically-enthusiastic · 8 months

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HI ELIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

you like podcasts, right?

do you have any recommendations? so far i've been listening to all vampires are gay and it's pretty cool but you have a great taste in Things so i thought you might have some suggestions :D

i love you <3

A;S.DKLJFASKJDF SO MUCH EXCITEMENT RIGHT NOW AND i CANT COPE HEHEHEALKSJFHALJ AGAGGGGGHSDFSFFFFFFHHHHHHHHHHHHH

*dies*

Okay.......... *composes myself, adjusts blazer and tie, pulls out a briefcase and begins*

Hmm this post got a lil out of hand so here's a read break for anyone who doesn't want to hear me talk for *copies and pastes into google docs to count the words* 800 words about fiction podcasts :DDDD

Sooo! I have not listened to all vampires are gay, but have read the podcast description so I know a little about what you are looking for....

Audio dramas (In order of how similar to AVAG I think they probably are):

Where The Stars Fell is a dark supernatural podcast (I had to stop listening bc it got too dark....) that seems very similar? I don't remember much and didnt listen enough to get a proper feel for it.... check it out and see!!

I listened to a like 20 episodes of Welcome to Night Vale before that one got too dark - but it is very popular on this website and each ep is kinda like a news report. Its set in a weird town where lots of supernatural things happen and almost every conspiracy theory is true there.

The Unseen Podcast has a *very* cool format. Each episode is kinda a monologue from a different person each week. It talks about their individual experiences in a fantasy world and it has SUCH a cool magic system!! Please listen to this/do more research..... I've spent like 45 mins on this post at this point (I haven't written it in order, this is one of the last parts im writing) and I'm tired so can't really explain it properly.... Sorry!!! But I loved the non-dark episodes of that!!! (they had content warnings so I only listened to the ones with reasonable content warnings)

Civilised is an improvised science fiction dark comedy show about a ship stranded on a planet and strange things ensue. I listened to the first few series but then from what I remember it got a little too dark for me. (my threshold is very low fyi). I listened to that one a while ago so don't have much else to say, check out the first few eps if it sounds interesting!!

We Fix Space junk is again a dark comedy sci fi show (also a dystopia kind of) about scavengers in space! Again, listened to it ages ago so I don't remember much....

The amelia project is kind of a surreal (maybe?) show about a company that fakes people's deaths. Each episode is framed as an interveiw. So far it has 72 episodes, and it has just come to the end of the 2nd part of the 5th series! The first series is very much a collection of semi-unrelated stories but the plot begins to unfold in S2, and *lots* of things start to happen in S3 onwards!! My personal favourite!!!

Wooden Overcoats is a comedy podcast about a funeral home run by Rudyard and Antigone Funn, two probably autistic, probably a-spec, characters. Eric Chapman opens another funeral home and its kinda about their rivalry but also how they kinda cant live without each other and if any of that sounds even remotely interesting please please please listen because it is truly hilarious and excellently written and produced!!!!! It is finished with 4 seasons. My other favourite!!!!

Alba Salix is a fantasy show that is very very fun!! Again, I listened to it a while ago so I don't have much to say bc I can't remember, but it has quite a similar feel to BBC Merlin I think? With more fairies and magic though. I remember loving it very much. I should probably relisten soon!! This is from the website:

"Farloria’s Royal Physician has her work cut out for her. As head witch and the only regular staff member at the new House of Healing, Alba’s got an endless lineup of patients and a bickering King and Queen to please. Fortunately, help is on the way. Unfortunately, that help is from Magnus, a troublesome young ex-monk and aspiring surgeon, and Holly, an accident-prone fairy herbalist."

Forgive Me is a comedy about a father (the religous type, not a parental figure) who runs a church and each episode is framed as a confession in the catholic church. It's not very religous-y and does point out some of the problems with religion etc. Its quite lighthearted from what I remember? The amelia project did a crossover episode with them!

WOW this post got very long! I will put a read break to shorten it........ oops!! I like podcasts very very much.... heheeeee

These are all the fiction podcasts I have listened to (I think? there are probably more that I have forgotten about....) but if you want any non-fiction ones I have a lot more to talk about heheee!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Love you too Echo!!! And thank you for inadvertently letting me infodump about a special interest for this long!!!!!!!!!!!!

#ask #echosghoast #podcasts #am i really going to tag every single podcast ive mentioned?#yes #where the stars fell #welcome to night vale #unseen podcast #civilised #we fix space junk #the amelia project #wooden overcoats #alba salix #forgive me

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skayafair · 4 months

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Podcasts against gender stereotypes (yay!)

I made a post about the way gender essentially doesn't exist in Arcane, but I also wanted to say a few words about two podcasts I've been listening to lately.

In The Sheridan Tapes, I was struck by the way Bill Tyler and his partner, Robert Quincy, became the emotional and caring core of the searchers team. Sam Bailey was also allowed to be vulnerable, his "Heart" episode was soul-piercing, and his power relies mostly on intuition, on feelings. He literally needs an emotional connection for it to work in a certain way.

Kate Sheridan and Maria Sol, on the opposite, felt more like the action members of the team for the most of S2, very determined and tough when needed, holding themselves together at all times.

Things shifted to more neutral in S3 and 4, but S2 had me pleasantly surprised, because the traditional gender roles were sort of reversed but not driven to the extremes (like a lot of movies deal with 'tough women' nowadays). I'm agender so I like when gender stereotypes are treated as non-existent and the authors write people, not "men and women".

It's pretty much the same with Syntax Podcast. There's no clear devision gender roles wise, but I liked how Silas - not Lizzy or Alyx or even the most sociable of the group and the team leader Cassius - became 'the caring one' for the team: despite his stuck up attitude at first (or it just sounded that way to me in the beginning, I'm relistening and it feels way less so now), seemingly being more of an introvert and just 'on his own wavelength', it's Silas' trailer where everyone ends up gathering when they need support, Cass goes to him right away from the very beginning when they want to have some advice or just to discuss anything, any time a team member is having a hard time he makes sure to come up to them and give some reassurance or ask if they need help, and it was him who was making rounds to ensure everyone was ok when they were waiting out a siege. All this, considering that they have a leader, a medic and a security head on the team as well. So it wasn't strictly necessary, but he ended up taking this role all the same, just like he used to care about his mother's wellbeing since childhood after his father died.

Greg, being the "papa bear", also never shows any callousness despite serving in the military for the most of his life. In fact, his supernatural experience story is concentrated on moral support of his fallen comerades families. Moreover, although he tries to act tough like his place in the team demands, he's still allowed to show vulnerability and takes the chance. Same with J - military experience and no toxic masculinity whatsoever (I mean yes there were a few jokes but he was lightheartedly picking on Alyx and paid for this right away XD).

The girls are never damsels in distress and do a lot for the team.

(I don't mention enbies since I'm not aware if we even have any stereotypes going on for us, assigned gender at birth aside? Anyway, there's none of that bullshit either.)

Well, I may mention Greg being "papa bear" and June behaving like a mother hen but these traits aren't toxic, at least in their case. They feel very nice, and actually these two (I'm in denial S3 ending-wise, I have a fix it au in my mind OKAY) act pretty similarly in their care for the team, although they do it in different ways. Plus, I don't mind gender existing at all, only the expectations related to it being perceived as mandatory.

Everyone is written just as people, and they don't shy away from things that traditionally may be attributed to the opposite gender. I love to see - well, technically, hear - this. Please, more.

As a side note: I'd love not to pay attention to such things in general because to me people are just people as is, but in the society I live in every day gender stereotypes are still shoved in everyone's faces. In my country visibly not conforming to them is edging on committing a crime now. Plus gender socialization is still a thing, sadly, so toxic masculinity and femininity still exist and show up often enough, so I have to consider this as well. All this makes pieces of media like Arcane, TST or Syntax all the more enjoyable as they show the world the way I see it and would like it to be in reality.

#the sheridan tapes #syntax podcast #arcane #gender stereotypes #agender #I'm just so so grateful to both podcasts #they went straight to my faves right away

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lichfucker · 8 months

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turns out all it takes for me to catch up on a podcast is to get a new phone, never remember to put my music on it, and then spend a lot of time on public transit. including the ep that just dropped today, I only have two left until I'm fully caught up on dndads, and this was a full s2 relisten from the beginning bc it had been so long

#bluh bluh #dungeons and daddies lb

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humanmorph · 9 months

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vague woebegone thoughts. im actually just kind of tired but dont want to sleep yet

am now 40 episodes behind on woe.begone and i while i think i could start listening again from where im at bc i have a pretty good idea what was going on still im thinking about relistening from the beginning. im kind of curious just how weird season 1 feels now. everything past then blurs together a bit for me (i could not tell you where the s2 and s3 or anything after breaks were) but it just becomes a different story. i think that happens multiple times probably but i feel the past few seasons(?) its been kind of stable? like oh this is what were doing. except i never really knew where the plot was GOING ever. i think its actually probably quite noticable when the story takes another turn and it’s just blurs together for me because i was bingelistening to. probably most of it. and also i havent listened in 10 months

with timetravel or different timeline bullshit you have to write in a way so it doesnt get too confusing or gets hung up on itself and stops making sense. and the thing is i kinda extremely dont gaf about that with woebegone. literally do whatever. and like there IS stuff that made me pause sometimes andwonder about how this thing is written (as in the process). but i mostly just dont care im just here for the ride

anyways what i REALLY want though is cowboy michael supercut i just gaf about him. ik hes a fan favourite and theres a good reason for this hold on i had tweets about that

and i love when different mikes are mean to each other with like a. ‘cant fucking stand this guy’ vibe because man that guy is YOU (you hate yourself). and when. they do start to care about each other(some of them). they also still hate themselves its just good stuff

#rosa rambles #<- accurate.im ltierally just saying words #oohh different versions of a person that are the same but really not.my beloved

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somuchbetterthanthat · 10 months

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Okay so. Leon dies. At least a few months pass while Charlotte and Montgomery organize the referendum for the Redline City (how far was Charlotte in her pregnancy when she decided to join, after their initial discussion? We know the baby was three weeks late -- THREE WEEKS LATE this is insane -- but she was aalready at least pregnant enough when Mallory saw her on the rollercoaster, before Leon died, that she was like "mmh, should not have let ride but she looked so badass")

Then, shit fucks happen when the "yes" wins and Redline is born as a city. (end of season 1)

According to dear Chuck Octogon, seven months go by while Charlotte handles things pretty well, considering - and that's seven months in that the weird things start to happen. So I think that's where we pick up S2... (yes i already need to relisten. that's how faulty my memory is.)

Emily and Isabelle enter the race for Mayor then. I don't know how a mayor races is supposed to last especially for a newly created city, but it last long enough for 1. all the lottery events to happen, 2. Isaiah's arrest and the followed protests 3. Nica deciding to spy on Emily 4. Michael gets kidnapped (Sending a message to Louisa, Finding Leon, getting mindmeld with Leon, managing to let go of Leon, sending cryptic messages to more people, getting Philipp arrested, then almost dying). Point n°4 is said to have lasted something close to a year. But then again, all those events are like, S2 and beginning of S3 if I recall proper.

Emily wins mid-S3. End of S3 Dimitri is apparently 30 but he left when he was 24 and it's been a year since he was gone when the podcast starts which made him 25 when his brother died.

Listen.

I'm sorry.

But I am deciding Dimitri just spent way more time away because of weird Atlantis magic. I legit can't believe Monty is five. At best is like. 3 at the beginning of S4 at least. I suppose at some point he DOES stop being strapped to his mums's chests for ill-advised adventures, so.

Maybe S4 is another year/year and a half, enough for Emily and the resistance to both have been properly organized on each side.

#DO MONTY GO TO SCHOOL.#greater boston #again very falty memory i'm basing this on the whole recap episode at the end of s3 rn

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dathen · 3 years

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Okay I have some complicated thoughts following Melanie’s arc that all build on top of each other and hinge HEAVILY on unreliable narrator interpretations so bear with me

In my relisten I’m at the beginning of s3, and it always shocks me a bit at how quickly she interprets Martin’s interaction with her as hostile. I’m going to skip over the “it’s understandable, Melanie’s had a hard time in her career” disclaimers since there’s plenty of meta on that already, and instead follow the effects of this tendency: not on others, this time, but on her

(This got absurdly long and covers so many episodes so I’m going to split it into separate pre- and post-bullet surgery posts)

Rewinding a bit, the last time she was at the Institute, she was starting to get along with Jon before he seemed confused about her comment on “the other Sasha.” It takes her a split second to interpret that confusion as him suddenly deciding to gaslight and mock her, gets angry and tells him there is something seriously wrong with him, and leaves before he can ask what she means. Given how tenuous their truce was and the fact she and Jon had mocked each other in the past, it’s an outburst that at least has some personal history behind it.

But only a couple episodes later, we learn that it’s not just Jon she responds to in this way. In TMA 84, she meets our Martin Blackwood! Customer service voice opposite-of-Jon politeness extraordinaire! And as soon as he gets confused about the two Sasha comment, she.......immediately assumes that HE is also trying to gaslight her. She insists that “I’m not doing this again” without giving him a chance to ask or explain, so they miss the opportunity to piece together the deal with the Not!Sasha. Her doing this with someone she just met shows a much broader pattern than her interactions with Jon.

That very episode, Elias offers Melanie a job, and she accepts despite Martin’s protests. Later, she accuses them all of them being an “old boy’s club” because she interpreted Martin’s warnings as sexism rather than trying to protect her. As the audience, we see the unreliable narrator of her perspective at work: we know that Jon and Martin were genuinely confused, and we know that Martin was trying to save her, and that all of these instances were her seeing it as people being out to get her.

Hop forward to the notorious gossip scene in TMA 106. Here, Melanie complains about Martin being hostile to her. My first assumption was that this was all offscreen, but after this parade of misinterpretation and comparing to her and Martin’s actual interactions, I have to wonder:

TMA 84, after Martin tells Melanie about the murder, and right before Elias interrupts:

Martin: Are you sure you’re alright?

Melanie: Yes! I just got… God, I’m kind of at the end, you know?

Martin: The end of what?

Melanie: Everything. Friends, clues, savings. Everything. Options. There’s nowhere left for me to go . I don’t know why, but… I just, I just felt that perhaps coming here might help. And talking things out with Jon. I mean, I mean he’s awful, but at least he listens, you know?

Martin: (soft) Yeah. ...I’m sorry. Um, is there anything that I could, like, maybe...do for you?

They get interrupted immediately after this, so this was the first impression Melanie was given. Then, when Elias offers the job, she...assumes Martin’s “I don’t think that’s a good idea” is from sexism, when he’d just been talking about murders and disappearances that caused that very job opening.

TMA 88

Melanie: Are you alright?

Martin: Yeah… Sorry, just a lot of change recently, y’know. You and John and Sasha and… everything’s gone a bit wrong. It’s the not knowing, you know? I mean, Jon’s still alive. Not sure why, but I’m sure of that. But Sasha, I…

Melanie: Yes, it’s… it’s probably, um…

Martin: Sorry, sorry, I’m... What do you need?

Next interaction! Oh this one HURTS. Martin takes her question literally, and starts telling her why she’s not alright, a reverse of their earlier exchange. But Melanie came by for a question and wasn’t prepared for an honest answer, so Martin quickly reels it in and asks what he can do for her once again.

Skipping forward a bit in that same scene:

Martin: Oh, you weren’t here when we took the place over from Gertrude! It’s been over a year just to get it like this. I mean, I think the database was on Jon’s list, but--

Melanie: So how do you track someone down?

Martin: Oh, oh well, y’know, we’ve a few contacts in various record offices around the place. Aside from that it’s just… just a bit of detective work, really. Tim used to do a great line in impersonating people to utility companies! Heh, the number of times he got them to give him ‘his own’ address--

Melanie: Right, right… Um, this one, the name is 'Jude Perry.’ Doesn’t mean anything to you, does it?

I LOVE THIS EXCHANGE. I TREASURE IT. Having bottled up his emotions, Martin is going in full Friendly Helpful Coworker mode. There are so many little details here signaling that he’s embracing her as part of the team, sharing anecdotes about Tim’s shenanigans and Jon’s old plans, looping her in as One of Them as he helps her get what she needs. This is the kind of approach you go to management trainings to get, to help new hires feel welcome and part of things. But alas, Melanie is in a hurry and wants to cut to the chase, so all this is lost on her.

TMA 98 - I won’t copy it all in here because it’s long, but this is an overwhelmingly positive interaction. She asks if he’s okay, but he bottles it up and says he’s fine. This time, she presses, and he admits it’s because of the statements. Martin ends up asking for help!! and Melanie agrees! She’s on the way to murder Elias, but she still gets credit for “I’ll ask him to cut you some slack.” Then she invites him to drinks!

And then.... TMA 106

Melanie: Anyway, Martin’s always been lovely to you.

Basira: Hmm. I don’t know, I mean, you should have seen him when I turned up last year. I think he thought I was trying to steal his precious Archivist.

Melanie: Ahhh. I got the exact same when Jon was hiding out, and came to me with his “source on the inside” stuff. Martin was not impressed.

WAIT WHAT

We just looked over all their interactions! They were all soft and lovely and welcoming!! But then we hear Melanie with “well unlike how he is to me, Martin is nice to you.” This was taken at face value for years, but when you line up all of the above, I feel there is a strong basis to say this is another case of Melanie’s first impressions + over-defensiveness gone wrong. Just like we saw her initial bickerings with Jon solidify into series-long hostility, her interpreting Martin’s confusion as gaslighting and warnings about the job as sexism seems to have doomed her opinion of him long-term. We hear Martin being kind and concerned and welcoming, then hear Melanie contrast it as bad treatment.

Recently, a mutual considered this even further to how she talked about losing all of her friends with the Ghost Hunt UK circles:

Melanie: Even back then, I could feel all my old friends starting to distance themselves from me. ... I stopped asking the others for help, and I kept my research to myself. I talked to them less and less. By the time I was arrested, I think a lot of them had already given up on me.

I have to wonder...did this sort of dynamic play out here, too? Did she assume that her friends’ concern was judgment or hostility? Were they giving up on her, or did she lash out and push them away? Either way, it’s easy to see parallels to s2 Jon in her description, here, with her withdrawing and diving alone into increasingly risky research without asking for help. And s2 Jon definitely shared Melanie’s tendency to see offers for help and support as hostile. (Aside: I interpret her and Georgie as not very close at this point, like a networking contact rather than a friend; Melanie comes to Jon for someone to talk to about her struggles above her, and Georgie seems to be unaware of all of Melanie’s encounters pre-s3)

And on that downer note I am ending part 1...but PART 2 IS GOING TO BE WAY HAPPIER THAN THIS. Here, we see Melanie with a lot of people who would have supported her if she let them: Martin, Jon, possibly the friends she said abandoned her. But in her effort to protect herself and not let history repeat for how she’d been hurt in the past, she ends up alone and spiraling.

#tma #the magnus archives #tma spoilers #melanie king #tma meta #I had to stop myself from just rambling All Melanie Feelings in Every Direction to stay on track #but hoo boy writing this gave me a lot of feelings for the martin melanie friendship that could have been

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cookinguptales · 4 months

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So my relisten of Malevolent continues, and my followers know that I’ve been rambling a lot about the connections between s2 of Malevolent and Dante’s Inferno.

Put simply, I believe that Arthur and John are trapped in Dis when they’re in the Dreamlands, which is the area comprising the last four circles of Hell in Dante’s cosmology. There are simply far too many similarities for it to be anything but purposeful.

I’ve started writing this post several times, but it’s hard. There is just so much to talk about that it’s difficult to know where to begin. Initially I thought I’d just go over the dozens of parallels and allusions that I caught while listening before making separate posts with more nuanced discussion of each circle and its implications for Arthur and John, but…

I think, actually, what’s more important to start with is whether it really is Dis at all.

I’m fully convinced that Arthur is exploring Dante’s Hell, but that doesn’t mean that it actually physically is Dante’s Hell. I’m not saying that Dante was describing the Dreamlands in this universe, necessarily. I think what’s more likely, the more I think about it, is that The King in Yellow used Arthur’s conceptualizations of Hell as received from Dante to create the Hell for him that Arthur believed he deserved.

Like… we know that the KIY is familiar with human writers like Shakespeare. I really don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility that he knows Dante, too, and can feel that knowledge there in Arthur’s mind as well.

Arthur doesn’t specifically talk about Dante, which is a bit odd for a character who canonically loves poetry as much he does. He never says, “hey, this is weird, this is definitely Dante!” like I did when I was listening to it. But both John and Arthur make some odd statements, Easter eggs almost, that seem to refer to details from the poem.

Things like John saying there might be ice at the bottom of the pit. Things like Arthur bringing up the Minotaur for no real reason. It does feel like, at least subconsciously, this information exists in both of them the same way John subconsciously absorbed information about Arthur’s modern world.

I don’t think that Arthur realizes that the KIY has created a Hell from his memories for him to traverse, purposely creating a narrative of penitence and redemption to make Arthur let go of his guilt, but I think the whole thing is working on him all the same.

I won’t go into too much detail about a lot of my ideas in this post (there’s genuinely just too much for one post) but I think that Arthur needs a Virgil and a Beatrice. He needs to confront his sins and experience the punishments assigned to them. He needs to work through his past and make sense of the guilt he feels.

The King knows that, and he takes advantage of it.

It almost works, too. There are times when Arthur almost gives in and accepts some form of divine forgiveness, so to speak. But due to his own stubbornness, lack of faith, and perhaps some outside influence, he does manage to refuse that temptation and eventually escape the Inferno.

As for the outside influence, I think… I mean, I’ll talk about Kayne and Dante’s Caina more later, but I think that… I don’t think that Kayne was supposed to be a part of the KIY’s Inferno. He think he actually invaded the dream and put his own spin on it, which is partially why the KIY ended up losing control of the situation.

That said, I do think that Kayne was well aware of what was being built and delighted in playing with the themes he found there. I think he was like “hey, crazy how there’s a portion of Dante’s Hell in the lake of ice called Caina that is specifically designed to punish humans who killed their own family members” and decided to use that to his own benefit.

That is in fact a large part of why I believe that the Dreamlands are not fixed in their shape, nor are they actually literally a Dis that Arthur must traverse. Because Kayne was able to use the frame for his own purposes and change it. He was not a permanent part of it, but an interloper who could come and go and who purposefully chose a location and name that would suit the themes. That seems to imply that this is a fiction that outsiders are not beholden to, but can play with as they please -- not an actual physical and immutable space.

There’s also this line in E18…

I’d argue that what Arthur is experiencing is all a dream that the KIY created specifically for Arthur, specifically to try and manipulate him, and that the Dreamlands are not fully fixed. It’s not just his hallucinations in the garden that are the King manipulating his surroundings to drive him to madness; it is everything that he and John experienced from the moment they entered the Dreamlands. It was all designed to resemble a Hell that Arthur would recognize and respond to emotionally.

Noel/Charlie also mentioned the way the Dreamlands appeared to change constantly as the KIY tried to manipulate him, which really feels like the nail in the coffin here. I don’t think the KIY controls every aspect of the Dreamlands, but I do think he can at least control how certain parts of it manifest to those who are trapped within it — and that’s what he’s done to both Noel and Arthur.

So all that, along with the fact that Kayne does not seem to be a permanent fixture in the dream but continues to ape its themes for… fun, I guess, makes me think that Arthur is not literally traversing Dis, but is instead descending through a version of it that the KIY is using to fuck with his concepts of faith, morality, penitence, and guilt.

(And I think meanwhile, John is just genuinely confused.)

I have a lot more to talk about, from all the specific allusions to ideas about psychopompery to the repeated allusions to being separated from one’s body to guilt/salvation to… well, I just have a lot to say. lmao

I’m about to be very pretentious about all this, and I apologize in advance lmao. Next post I'll talk in more depth about the living forest, the burning sands, the lake of ice, the malebolge (evil pouches/pits), and many, many, many more allusions to Dante's Inferno.

#malevolent podcast #I'm sorry guys I'm gonna be so annoying about this #since I graduated from college meta like this is how I get my cage enrichment

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lycanlovingvampyre · 1 year

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MAG 132 Relisten

Activity on my first listen: putting up a new fence.

Although there's not sooo much going on in this episode, it's in my list of favorites. Daisy hit me like a train in this episode... I hated her in S2 and S3. Pretty much everybody did, I guess?

Fun story, when I recommended TMA to my father in law I told him to start at episode 1, that it looks like individual stories, but they're not and it's important to get the full scope of the story. Some days later he told me he started TMA and listened to that one episode "where they're in a cave or something"... My brain scanned through the episodes, first I thought he meant MAG 15, but then he was like "no like, two characters, one in search of the other" and it clicked that he meant THIS episode and I’m just like "WTF, you started in S4???" Without any context it fortunately was not enough to really act as a spoiler, and he then proceeded to follow my instruction and started from the beginning.

JON: "But I know what I’m doing; this time I do. I, I hope." The "I hope" kind of devalues the "I know" ^^'

JON: "I have her voice. I think that should be enough to find her" There is so much focus on voice in TMA. Yeah, it's a podcast, so all we really have are their voices, but other aspects can be described if needed. But the Not!Them couldn't alter voice recordings. Jon's voice is essential to his compulsion ability. Jon uses Daisy's voice to find her. (Further down the story Jon's voice will bring the Fears through. The Web took Jon's voice to tie the Fears together...)

JON: "but if this goes wrong, all you lose is – (abrupt) I’m not risking anyone else." Does he now think he made the wrong choice to wake up? Because since he has come back to the Archives, he doesn't sound like he thinks he's worth enough to live, not when compared to the others.

JON: "Not if I – can’t find my way out. When I first came down, I could feel it, the – the part of myself I left outside, but – (inhale) But it’s been getting fainter and now…" I'll believe he could feel specifically the rib when he first walked in. It's like climbing down a rope. But the moment the rope ends and you lose it, it's not prominent enough to find it again, not that far down. The tapes however were made to bind the Fears. Connections are what the Web's about.

After the first few lines of Daisy you already know she's different. The edge to her voice and that fierceness is gone.

JON: "Sorry. Obviously. No, I just meant – Y-You sound – okay." Yeah, that's what I meant xD

JON: "No. I know where we are. There is n-no out, not here. This is – This is forever deep below creation. Where the weight of existence bears down. This is The Buried, and we are alive. There isn’t even an up." Yeah, way to go, I'm sure that's gonna help Daisy xD (I know, if the practical claustrophobic part won't get you, then the existential dread might do it for you^^ Like me, I like this kind of horror more.)

DAISY: "N-Not alone, though." JON: (barely a whisper) "No. No, not alone." <3

DAISY: "I thought – thought I’d (breath) I’d ne-never see the sky again, never – (close to breaking) never s-see Basira – (she composes herself) But – But – But now – you – you’ve got out of, of, of other stuff like this; maybe, maybe you’ll get out of this, and, and then take me with you. (heavy breathing) But I don’t know what I’ll be out, outside." Yeah, that sort of stuff can keep you going! Like in MAG 66. That little rays of hope which the statement giver just wouldn't allow to get his will crushed when they faded again. The Fear loosens its grip when it's not getting fear, when you're not fueling it.

DAISY: " I just know that I – I don’t like who I was, back outside. I don’t want to be her again. I want – to be – better. (breathing) Mmm – (more breathing) Y-You know what I thought, when I woke up here? I thought this was hell. I wa– I was dead, and I was in hell. And I – (sob) I knew I deserved it. (strain) I don’t want t-to b-be a s-sadistic predator again. I-I don’t want to hobble around like some – pathetic wounded prey either. I don’t know which would be worse. But I’m sc-scared now. That I won’t ever get the choice." That was the same with Melanie. Those things make you want them, even need them. And sometimes you need something else to take it away from you to see what's it like without. A sneaky surgery without consent. Being entombed without any connection to other forces. Trying to cut that connection yourself just takes an enormous amount of effort, so you don't even start. Or it will actually make you lose yourself (like Gertrude said in MAG 130, they fade without purpose), if that is the only thing that you define yourself with. It reminds me very much of a debate going on in art circles. Romanticizing suffering, the desire to be sad. A lot of motivations come from suffering, from trauma, depression. And it has always been fueling art. But what happens, if artists think they will run out of fuel when they run out of hurt? They don't want to get better. People have been in this kind of placed for so long, they don't even know how else to do it... You're stuck, just continuing in the same way somehow (like in the coffin, heh!). There is something you have to be willing to let go and you don't know what happens to you, if you do and that's scary.

JON: "One thing I’ve learned, Daisy, is that we all get a choice. Even if it doesn’t feel like one." That is the question of the whole story... Do we?

DAISY: "I realized – you were in my dreams. R-R-Reliving – this. T-The coffin. You were there." JON: "Yes." DAISY: "Didn’t think it was real. Not really. Just my mind putting you there, because I hated you, but no. One night, you turn up in a new shirt. Didn’t fit you. Not your style.(shaky breath) I-I didn’t think much of it, just a-a dream. Then you come back from the States, and guess what you’re wearing." 1.) Not really-counter of S4: 3! 2.) Jon's "Yes." More like "I know"... 3.) What shirt do you think Jon was wearing? Go! (I’m on board with something like 30 & flirty xD)

JON: "M-My, My, My anchor, my – the, a rib; I can f– I can feel – I know the way." I think this is kind of up to interpretation. My personal preference goes like this: He doesn't outright say "I can feel my rib". His first words are "my anchor", so he feels something connecting him, doesn't have to be the rib. He can't describe it, what he feels, he just knows how to follow it. He’s right to assume it’s the rib of course, that why he got it out in the first place.

JON: "Tape recorders. Must – must be dozens of them." What's preeeetty certain that it's actually doing something are the tape recorders, otherwise it wouldn't be the narrative device for the whole podcast + particularly in this instance here. Already said above, their purpose is to bind. The Web is about connections and how to influence them, weave them together or bring them apart, depending on what it is the Spider wants. And the Spider wants Jon to make it out. More on that in MAG 134, because we learn more about what happened here and also I think this post already got pretty long, sorry for that, I hope you like reading?^^

@a-mag-a-day

#a-mag-a-day #mag 132 #tma #tma spoilers

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jewishmarkbryant · 2 years

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I have not stopped annoying @pro-daydreamer for about twenty-four hours about my Pasithea Powder thoughts and theories both before and after the s2 finale came out, so I’m going to brain dump them here. Let me know if anyone wants to hear more because I am BURSTING and do not have time to write all the new fics I want to tackle right now.

Do we have confirmation that Evelyn is dead? Just saying. I don’t believe we ever saw a body and I don’t trust the PSA.

Even if we DID see a body… I dunno, I just don’t trust those fuckers

What is the DEAL with George and Medea oh my god where do I even begin

Let’s start with Medea and culture because I keep envisioning it like. Very Spartan. Fight for your spot and your pride. Lots of pride and honor and loyalty and shit. George can throw a punch but they sure have received their fair share too

“I haven’t fired a gun since —“ SINCE WHEN GEORGE? You’re a civilian… you’ve had training… were you always a civilian? Is this just how Medea is? Are you just very paranoid? FINISH YOUR DAMN SENTENCES.

I need to know why Molly and Jackie named Dr. Moreau after. You know. The infamous Dr. Moreau. Don’t get me wrong, I adore all references to the vivisecting villain, but.

Um. Also, I’m getting back into Leverage right now so there are far too many Moreaus in my life.

I know that nobody really realizes that they’re friends now, but Moon didn’t mention George at all in her plot except when saying they’d be blamed with Sophie. Is this because she assumes they’ll escape? Or that Jane won’t care what she does to them? Does she have something really grisly planned either way? What is happening

Amita. I haven’t stopped thinking about Amita in ages, I keep relistening to the mind meld. (Gonna assume she/her pronouns going forward but I could be wrong because that mind meld bit was intentionally confusing). Buckle in cuz the followinf is only vaguely based in canon fact:

I figure most things in the mind meld section could apply to either or both Sophie and Amita, which means “I always knew she was going to leave” (paraphrased) could be Amita too

Worrying about the situation on Letnos and not knowing where Amita was… followed by Pheris being safe… Pheris watching the hummingbirds… yall I think Amita is dead

Plus the “little cuts on her face” could be either Sophie or Amita if Amita was in the war zone

Why was Amita in the war zone? Was she working with the same group as Evelyn? Is this why she had to leave? Was she for peace when George was for war and this is why they haven’t fired a gun since? Is Sophie partially responsible for both their deaths???? My brain is Buzzing.

#the pasithea powder #this is mostly about George tbh #george moreau #sophie green #jane gonzalez #s2 e22 time to go #the pasithea powder spoilers

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gayspock · 5 years

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(tma anon here!) i just started season 3! the main trouble i'm having is remembering the names/connecting early dots with later ones and such. i know there's something about different concepts or beings or something like that being powerful and linking stuff? but also i just. Don't get what's going on in the archive like. what is jon doing. who is daisy. what do the books do with anything. my tiny gay brain can't piece things together rip esp cuz i haven't listened in awhile...

READ MORE TIME BC... FRANKLY THIS IS LONG IM SO SORRY ANON F

NAMES ARE ALWAYS REALLY DIFFICULT!!!! like, i dont blame u at all & i had a lot of the same issues - bc there REALLY IS a lot of them and they don’t get repeated enough. i would suggest, if theyre talking in depth about someone who only sounds vaaaguely familiar, to perhaps check them out on the wiki?? it’s probably your best bet, for a small refresher that u can access whenever u can.

moreover. this is obviously HARD bc ur not up to date, but? sometimes engaging with the fandom helps process things (it did for me) bc ppl’s discussions help connect things together. perhaps... try digging up old reddit threads, of when the actual episodes first aired? i suggest reddit specifically bc u can actually restrict ewhat u see to be only discussion about a specific episode in its specific thread (something u cant do on tumblr). seeing ppl discuss what happened in an episode, and what is/isnt important rlly can . do wonders if ur like me and things all kind of blur together.

AS FOR YOUR SPECIFIC QUESTIONS.. (first of all. might i suggest u go over the season 2 finale? JUST BECAUSE that explains most of what you’re asking, i think!? and has a lot of the important info, in terms of immediate plot. however... that being said, maybe if ure still struggling after that u could relisten to more episdoes? it wouldnt hurt, and if u want i could point u to all the relevant (relevant meaning: ones that will have follow up in the future) ones but- but to be honest, even then, there are a LOT of relevant episodes. so u gotta prepare uraself for that.)but i can answer the things u asked, to my own ability !! which?? i HOPE HELPS

1. what is jon doing

good question. mans gone wild!! im not entirely sure what u SPECIFICALLY mean by: what is he doing, but if u mean in GENERAL? at the very end of the s2 finale, he was framed for the murders of both Leitner and Gertrude by elias (who is the one who actually killed them both) after the former’s body was found in his office and he ran away. consequently, he is on the run from the law and is staying low at his ex-girlfriend’s (georgie) house, who doesn’t know what has happened (just that something is clearly . wrong with him).

in episode 1 he’s just recounting one of his own childhood experiences (essentially giving his own statement) which explains why he 1. hates the name leitner and 2. pursued a job at the magnus institute despite his cynicism. if you’ve made it to episode 3, yet, he basically starts getting statements sent through the mail to him (which is weird, because no one is supposed to know where he is) and he interprets this as someone sending him clues. THAT’S BASICALLY WHAT HE’S DOING IN THE BEGINNING, ANYWAYS!

2. who is daisy

she’s first mentioned in episode 43, and gives an actual statement firsthand in episode 61. do you remember basira? she’s the police officer jon was in contact with, and who gave him certain tapes that had been taken in as “evidence” by the police after gertrude’s murder. she is sectioned, which as explained in episode 43, basically means: she saw some weird supernatural shit once, had to sign a section 31 form, and is now assigned to any case which entails supernatural shit. daisy is essentially her partner on the force. she is also a sectioned and therefore also works on any and all supernatural cases. given the institute’s reputation, all cases concerning it are automatically given to section 31 officers - including gertrudes murder. which is actually why basira and daisy showed up in the first place, and why basira gave him so many tapes despite them being evidence: because they already suspected that he had killed her at that point, and were banking on the fact he’d expose himself.ANYWAY. therefore when jon was framed for murdering his predecessor, daisy steps in. she’s currently trying to find him, so she can “deal with him”.

3. what do the books do with anything. https://the-magnus-archives.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_booksthis might. explain a little bit??anyways the books were also something i was like “whahththeusdhisdhgd” about too, so big mood with that one. BASICALLY: the books have an unknown origin, and we still don’t know how they exist, or their original source. all we specifically know is that 1. they all correspond with at least one entity 2. they are especially powerful artefacts, even more so than most and 3. interacting with them has bad consequences that are variable. within the show, most people (and we ourselves are led to) believe that they were the work of someone called jurgen leitner - including jon, himself - hence why they’re referred to as leitners. however leitner turns out to be nothing but Just a Self-Absorbed Prick, who simply collected them, and added them to his library - branding them, as if they were his own, in the process. he believed that he could “protect” people from them, by keeping them in this fashion. instead this ... did not exactly work out, and instead given the fact he’d slapped his name on, like, all of them most people instead think he’s the one who put them all into the world. which, given their abhorrent nature, kind of put a big target on his back (which is why he went into hiding)

otherwise..... the books, unless something else is revealed later on, aren’t IMPORTANT-important? with regards to plot, at least. they appear every now and then, causing Situations(tm) but it was more like... a misdirection, i guess? might be the best word. as in, they were presented as the cause for a lot of shit, and thats true, but ACTUALLY: there’s a much bigger picture going on, and the books are less the root of the problem, and moreso a consequence of the problem if that makes any sense?

#anon #egg yells back

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