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warriorofthesky · 10 months

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more unhinged destiny theories. i'm sorry in advance.

if we assume that:

*puts tinfoil hat on*

(this is long. oops?)

the winnower as a being exists

the veil is the winnower or at least a way to commune with the winnower

the winnower "convinced" the witness that light is bad bc it is too chaotic by giving it a probably biased version of the creation of the universe (the unveiling)

the traveler didn't garden before the witness. the witness' people was the first civilization it uplifted

we can maybe theorize that:

the veil and the traveler were damaged/diminished because they had just left the "garden" and were thrown into the universe they created without much thought/intention

this damage manifested in what defines light and dark now: the winnower was reduced to memory, emotion, consciousness - the veil has no mass, apparently isn't capable of movement, it's just a big disco with a lot of thoughts, etc - and the traveler lost much of its own consciousness, becoming a force of physical change and growth

the universe was created but the winnower & gardener were crippled, incapable of actively interfering in it

until the witness' people found the traveler. i find it interesting that the traveler was buried and rose as the witness' people rose. maybe there was some sort of exchange going on there? i don't know, but anyway it isn't necessary. the traveler finally started interfering into the universe/affecting the flower game

... but then the witness got an existential crisis and found the veil aka the winnower who, through the witness, finally got the opportunity to interfere with the universe as well. see list of assumptions: the winnower started said interference by convincing the witness that the traveler was too dangerous bc the light was too chaotic. the winnower's goal is to go back to the final shape they had in the garden, and that can only happen if the traveler isn't allowed to interfere any longer

the witness, under the winnower's influence, wants to link the veil with the traveler bc it thinks this will allow them (they were still a people at this point) to rewrite reality into the final shape the veil/winnower showed them.

that's where i think the winnower & witness' goals might differ. every time the winnower talks to us (or to oryx or anyone else) it doesn't seem to want the universe to not exist. the witness has very "no death no life i want nothing to exist ever" vibe. the winnower is the sword logic. the witness is nihilism.

either way, i think the winnower is using the witness and once it has more power it will have no use for the witness anymore.

but also:

maya sundaresh heard the veil tell her its name in her own voice. that could be the winnower, once again trying to corrupt someone else into believing its story. this is what chioma says about maya & the veil:

she's convinced this thing - in her own words, she says - it'll be our "salvation."

which of course its what the witness says it is when it talks to us in shadowkeep. also the children of sol cry out for salvation yadda yadda

this could be them both (the witness & maya) drinking from the same source aka the winnower. the winnower could be tempting maya the same way it tempted the witness.

i also need to point out that maya was more or less on her way to creating a network of human minds... the witness ended up as collective consciousness merged into one being... the darkness is emotion, consciousness, memory... *wiggles eyebrows*

the unveiling could just be the witness passing on the winnower's message or the winnower itself trying to tempt us too. the unveiling has a certain "believe me, im right and you could be right too!!" vibe to it.

i think this theory is interesting because it evokes the garden of eden a lot. which the unveiling already did just by coming up with the concept of a garden before time. this would be just leaning into it a bit more, with the winnower as the snake tempting humanity/the witness.

but

many things in this ^ dont seem to work with the established lore

the sword logic is heavily implied to be nonsense. it's just something the witness used to control the hive & mold them into what it needed to work towards the final shape. the witness itself never mentions anything resembling the sword logic ideology bc it has no interest in it. see how each of its disciple had a different idea of what idea the final shape is, bc the witness told them what they needed to believe to further its goals. the sword logic was what the hive needed to believe. the end.

the latest purpose entry gives more credibility to this ^. xivu arath might mention the sword logic and the final shape as the same thing but the witness never does. it lets her believe it, but we never see it defend the sword logic itself.

the darkness itself is not bad!!! or so the game has been telling us for years now!!! it makes no sense that the darkness entity would just be bad again, after all the trouble they went through to establish the witness as a voice in the darkness and not the darkness itself. why would they make sure we understood that the witness is not bad because it uses the darkness only to make the darkness bad again anyway?

the whole idea of the winnower being a believer/creator of the sword logic makes no sense in a universe where the sword logic is implied to be nonsense.

... which gives a bit more weight to the idea of the witness having created the concept of the winnower.

not exactly the winnower of the unveiling (though this one too) but a winnower. it would see itself as said winnower and also create the winnower the hive/oryx and maybe us needed to believe existed. if the unveiling is a recruitment attempt, its version of the winnower might just be the one the witness thought would tempt us more.

the winnower beyond the veil doesn't exist in this case. or if it does, it's in a very low consciousness/individuality state. it just shows the witness stuff, it does not have an active will.

the witness did see the history of the universe when it communed with the veil and maybe it interpreted it in the wrong way as well, but there was no outside influence to this interpretation. it desperately needed purpose so it made itself one.

that would mean that the unveiling - the garden, the gardener, the winnower - is just propaganda

but not propaganda the witness believes in. the unveiling would not be its people's creation myth, it would be something it came up with to tempt others

but:

what about the voice maya heard? ok, i can understand the veil itself saying it since it is ~the mind and memory of the universe~, so maybe it just has maya in its hard drive by default

but the talk about salvation? this stinks of the witness. if we agree that the winnower - the author of the unveiling, the thing that became the darkness, the big bad behind the witness - does not exist in this way, it makes no sense for it to speak of or influence someone to think about salvation of humankind the way maya says it. the witness is the one who could have talked with maya.

but how would the witness talk to maya through the veil when it had just lost the veil and didn't even know where it was? when it approached the traveler it saw where the veil was and was actually surprised - or expressing emotion, what it usually doesn't do - so it makes no sense that it could have talked with maya through the veil. i mean, i guess it could maybe have just talked with her without knowing where the veil is, but i find that highly unlikely.

trying to mesh these two theories together is... an interesting thought exercise. but let's try:

the winnower as in the unveiling exists. it is either the veil or something beyond the veil.

the unveiling was written by it and it is recruitment propaganda. it did the same with the witness, the hive and even maya. not using the unveiling directly (it seems to just have showed stuff to the witness and talked with maya) but the idea is the same: find people, tempt them, use them to further its own goals.

this means that the witness doesn't necessarily has to believe in the sword logic. in the similar way that the witness gives people what they need to believe so it can use them, the winnower could do the same. the witness needs to believe the final shape is nothing? ok, let it believe it then. lol.

another interesting alternative to the unveiling is that it is written by the witness and that the witness believes it to be nonsense/made up stuff but it isn't. who knows!

the traveler noped out when the witness tried to strengthen its link to the veil because it does not want the universe to be rid of paracausality. the witness might think it would rewrite reality to be nothing, but i'm pretty sure in this case the winnower would just uno reverse card it and rewrite reality to not have paracausality.

now, let's try again in another way:

the winnower as an extremely conscious being does not exist. there is something beyond the veil and it could be the winnower from the unveiling but it is just like the traveler: mostly dormant, like a pond where people can drink from but not something that will reach out in return.

the unveiling was written by the witness as propaganda because it thought it was the best way to tempt us. the witness was the one speaking to oryx as the persona of the winnower aka a believer in the sword logic.

the traveler noped out because it didn't want the witness to rewrite reality into nothingness. the winnower/veil isn't an agent here - it's a tool.

the same way the witness came up with the final shape when it communed with the veil, maya came up with an idea of salvation when it listened to what the veil had to say. again, the veil is not an agent here, it has no intent of corrupting anyone - it has a LOT of information and memory, and both the witness and maya can interpret this information & these memories as they wish. the witness found the final shape aka a purpose. maya (probably) found salvation she wanted for her people.

there is a theme here of people communing with the veil and getting what they want to see from it, not necessarily the truth. it might be a facet of the truth or a warped interpretation of it, but it is not the truth in its purest form.

maybe because mortal beings - or once mortal beings - can't handle it?

i like this one better because it doesn't seem to directly contradict established lore as much. darkness isn't necessarily bad, light isn't necessarily good. both can be used in bad ways (the witness, warlords) and good ways (the ecumene, guardians).

there is an explanation for maya's interaction with veil as a parallel to the witness' interaction with the veil instead of maya speaking to the witness or to the winnower. both - witness and maya - came to the veil for answers and it gave them what they wanted to hear.

it stills leaves a lot open for the future of the franchise - the traveler and the veil are still unexplained, for example. they could be a version of the gardener and winnower from the garden, but they could not. the mystery of why the traveler is diminished even before interacting with the witness' people is still alive and well. we still don't know why it was buried in that planet. or why the veil was chilling in outer space. once we are done with the witness we can turn to these questions - or to something else entirely, who knows.

i guess i can believe this one. the one problem is that the conflict depicted in the unveiling was, in my opinion, much cooler. i guess it can still be true - who knows what the veil might reveal some day, if it really is the equivalent to the winnower of the garden. i mean, something still hurt the traveler. but idk.

it's interesting to note that light and dark as we now it didn't seem to exist in the garden. maybe we will still find out more about these forces if the garden was in any shape real.

but you know what? none of these theories explain this:

Xivu's will soars through the Ascendant Plane and crosses the barrier between this world and the next to find communion with the Witness. Within a distant hollow, they converse.

(from the last entry of the seasonal lore book, purporse)

the next? as in the next world?

what

how would "a next world" fit in *gestures to this mess of a post* this?

what is the witness even doing in whatever-it-is? i mean, apparently it takes a long time to reshape reality. the witness will hang out there for a whole ass year. so what or where or when is there? and why/how is the witness still able to talk with people in this world?

i'm just

i mean i've got ideas

the witness is back in the garden(tm)

or trying to get into it

our universe is just one of many created by the crash between gardener and winnower (WHATEVER THEY ARE) and the witness needs to ascend to the higher universes/worlds to reach the beginning of everything

the tree of silver wings is somehow involved in this, i just don't know how

there has to be a reason why it takes the witness a whole ass year to do what it needs to do but we apparently can chase after it quite fast once the expansion arrives. are we getting a shortcut once the final shape (the expansion, not the end of the universe) is released?

... unless we don't.

take a shortcut i mean.

we don't know what the next seasons will be about. there is nothing set in stone about us entering whatever the hell is on the other side of the portal only when the final shape arrives. we are waking up savathun next season, as far as i know we could be into that portal right then or on the season after that.

season 22: we wake savathun up, she comes up with a plan to get into the portal, we spend 3 months doing just that.

season 23: we enter the portal and now we need to make our way up bc the witness has got a hell of a head start.

the final shape: we reach the garden and now it is time to stop the witness.

profit?

does that mean the traveler is just... part of what the gardener was? since there are a billion worlds/universes, maybe each one has a piece of the gardener (and/or the winnower). this would explain the fragmented state of the the traveler's mind and the... inactivity, i guess, of the veil (if it is the winnower. big if there).

maybe thats why the witness can still communicate with xivu arath. the ascendant plane is just... a layer between us and the next universe and the witness is kind of astral projecting. could also be why it is still worried about us trying to figure out a way into the portal. it doesn't want us trying to race it to the finish once we are in.

or i could be completely insane. that's an option too i guess.

#the witness #the veil #the traveler #destiny 2 #destiny 2 spoilers #spoilers #season of the deep #season of the deep spoilers #ren.txt #i should be sleeping #or writing my crow x guardian fanfic smh #2.7k words of nonsense yall are welcome!!!!!!!!!!!#ren.wtf

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heartsleybyul · 2 years

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Hiiiii, i would like to ask for day 5 with Vil if that's possible? Thanks beforehand and have a great day!! <3

⌕ CLOSE TO YOU ; halloween event

— day 05 , vil shoenheit

› content : gn reader, you are on the verge of falling asleep, you sleep in Vil's room whoa

› summary : A new horror movie was recently shown, and what better way to watch it with a movie critique whilst sleep deprived?

› a/n : i wanna try watch a horror movie while sleep deprived w my friend MWEHEHEHEH

Recently, a talk of this new movie "Haunted" was going around NRC. Some saying this was a good movie and some saying it was bad, it certainly did catch your interest but it seemed like you weren't the only one.

After classes Vil invited you over to his dorm to critique this supposedly "award-winning" movie. As you happily agreed, you didn't want to be stuck with school work.

Arriving upon the dorm, you messaged Vil because you weren't to keen on just randomly entering. Thankfully he came to get you, heading onto his room he opened his laptop quickly and searched up the movie.

"You don't have to like, pay or download the movie?" You asked, while he answered with "I have my ways."

The movie started and a flash of its title appeared while the background had the main character walking through a city.

｡･:*:･ﾟ★,｡･:*:･ﾟ☆

30 minutes in and the story was half-decent although the build-up and suspense wasn't there enough it was fine, but it seemed like Vil had very contrasted opinions.

The scowl on his face was getting more and more noticeable, so aswell with his feedback.

A bit more through the monster was chasing after the main character and your sleep deprived self had your heart beating through your chest, the music, situation etc. seemed way too real.

Once the jumpscare finally came you clung onto Vil's shoulder, suprisingly he didn't make you let go. Instead he looked at you and let out a soft laugh, you were cute.

｡･:*:･ﾟ★,｡･:*:･ﾟ☆

The movie finally ended and you definitely underestimated it. Now that it was 1:34 you definitely needed sleep and it was getting more obvious with your frequent yawns and blinks. And it seemed like a certain someone also noticed.

"Well, that was fun Vil. Goodnight, I'll head off." You said heading for the door when he stopped you. "Ah [name], do you think you can really just walk back to Ramshackle? Your state is worsening, its quite obvious." He said tauntingly with hints of worry

Heeding his warning, whilst Vil also offers to let you sleep with him. There was really no other choice. You two settled in the bed while you clung once again on his shoulder drifting to sleep.

#aespa yeppi im gonna love #funny how im writmg this at 12 HAHAGSGSGSG #i should really sleep fr #our school is asking us to wake up at the crack ass dawn of 6 to go to mass smh #twst #twisted wonderland #vil shoenheit #vil shoenheit x reader #twst x reader #twst vil x reader #✦ — eventful times #✦ — written works #✦ — anonymous

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