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faislittlewhiteraven · 16 days

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Been having some ISaT tech level and timeline (as in 'when backstory things happened') thoughts and want to ramble a bit:

Tech

ISaT's setting is based on your classic sword and sorcery fantasy JRPG so its easy to assume that tech wise everything is 'fantasy medieval' and call it a day but consider:

Body Craft is at bare minimum is magic sex changing surgery (earliest known equivent in our world dating to 1930) that any old person can learn to do safely on themselves in only a few months, and more likely has many many broader applications like regular old surgery, the 'combat healing' Mira and Sif use, etc.

Cameras and photos are rare enough that Odile comments on it (namely she's happy the group get a photo in the House due to them being 'so rare') yet are also common enough that everyone in the party knows about them and doesn't question the existence of a camera beyond being surprised that the mirror was one. (In our world cameras date back to the 19th century, with the earliest manufacturing of them being in 1839).

Printing presses and ways to make plenty of paper to feed those presses given absolutely everyone in this game can read, expects everyone else to know how to, and both mass produced book series and newspapers are a thing. (Note: Printing presses have existed since waaaay back but it's the mass paper manufacturing that makes newspapers and The Cursing of Chateu Castle possible that really has my eyebrows raised here, especially since neither Siffrin or Odile find either odd in any way, indicating such things are common everywhere, and while newspapers have been around since 1604 in our world, mass produced fantasy books didn't really take off until the start of the 20th century).

Food production and storage: despite being in the middle of a national disaster that almost certainly cut off trade networks and access to most suppliers for literal months now, Bonnie, a small child, is able to easily get their hands on fresh Pineapple, curry ingredients (for samosa), potatoes, plantains etc with no issues or anyone commenting on this being unusual or lucky. Oh and the only character who even brings up the concept of potential starvation is the Fishing One, and only in a sort of 'we're not at risk now but sooner or later...' kinda way due to noticing that the fish they fish up for fun are disappearing and likely being frozen. So yeah, that heavily implies Vaugarde has very good food storage tech/Craft (possibly better than ours), and likely also good food production and harvesting tech/skills also.

The Island's incredible knowledge of the stars: while the oldest known orrery in our world is dated from around 205 to 87 BC (ancient Greek, earth centric model), the fact Sif -who would've learnt this as a child/teen- is so very certain that stars are big balls of fire made up of gas is interesting as that's something our world couldn't prove the theory of until around the 1900s (note: it'd been theorized a LONG time but Sif talks like its complete facts to them . Additionally the earliest existing record of a telescope in our world dates to a 1608 patent and we see one of those in game.

Post posting EDIT: A wonderful user qds-place pointed out that Mirabelle has anti-anxiety medication in her room. This is in both ISaT and SAaP and though we're not sure what form the medication takes (pills? Valium? Megitech esc Craft boosters???) the fact they specifically have 'anti anxiety' medication at all (as opposed to idk dragging Mira off and drugging her through the gills) is kind of impressive and if it IS modern anti anxiety pills those could be as recent in creation as the 1950s! So um. Some high levels of tech implied in chemistry there <3

So... yeah. All this, plus the fact that the highest tech implied area, The Island, literally specialised in the study/Craft of turning wishes into reality (for a long enough time period that Wish Craft is culturally so ingrained in the King and Sif that they do it without thinking and it seems intertwined with their nation's religion) has been completely erased from memory to the point anything heavily associated with them has been forgotten, and also we only ever see Dormont aka a little village well away from the cities, it's not hard to conclude that you can basically justify giving the ISaT world any level of tech you want, so long as you lock any of the truly 'setting breaking' stuff like planes and rockets behind The Island's forgetting curse (I would've said trains too but thinking about it trains were invented in 1802 so it's honestly easy to imagine that they totally exist in the ISaT setting/Vaugarde but aren't ever on screen because rail is way too dangerous to consider using while the Curse is active and potentially time freezing things on the tracks).

Side note: We know absolutely nothing about Vaugarde's transport system but as a fan of fantasy RPGs it is honestly a travesty I have yet to see a fic that has flying dragons/wyverns or other fantasy mounts in setting. Like, ok yes, the party would probably have wanted to use those but maybe they don't like the Curse and fled? Maybe the King's Curse targeted them first? Maybe all their handlers dropped the heroes off in Dormont and said 'Well Saviors it's been fun, but well me and Scales here are off to Poteria until things wrap up so best of luck to you' before buggering off?

This isn't really a serious complaint just. Me reminding myself/potentially other fanwork writers out there that there's a lot about the setting we just don't know about and limiting all travel to walking, horse drawn carriage and boat is not actually required. (Also please mix up travelling to the Island. Boats are a wonderful classic and have great thematic vibes for Sif's original leaving of the Island but like. Imagine the sheer in-universe wtf of the memories of The Island suddenly coming back and people on the north coast suddenly realising there's a massive bridge, subway or underwater tunnel leading there that everyone just forgot about - potentially filled with all kinds of Sadnesses that need taking down. Or Warp Panels in a House of Change, idk XD).

Timeline

Canon notes first:

Bonnie is a preteen (8 to 12), Mira and Isa are in their early to mid 20s (with Isa slightly older), Sif is late 20s to 30, and Odile is 40+ Nille is stated to be around 18 to 20.

Siffrin ran away from home when they were a teenager (13 to 17? 18?) and this is heavily implied to be when the Island was Forgotten.

Bonnie (in ISaT specifically*) says that Nille told them that when it happened all the adults were talking about it, hence why they think The Island is close to their village. *In Start Again a Prologue, Bonnie says that they themself remember the adults talking about the Island disappearing, which er. Is a bit impossible given they likely weren't even born yet when that happened but that can be explained away by AU differences, InsertDisc5 still finalising details between SAaP and ISaT, and/or OG Siffrin having been in the loops so long they weren't actually listening when Bonnie was talking and just 'scripted' in their head something 'close enough' to what Bonnie was saying to get the idea (note: mentioned that idea before in my post here on the differences between the House and King in Start Again vs In Stars and Time for anyone curious so er please feel free to give that a read if you haven't already).

Odile mentions remembering 'when it happened' as well and has been 'travelling for years'.

The King 'appeared out of nowhere' sometime in his adulthood, and lived in the city of Corbeaux for a few years before he became the King.

The King became the King as was freezing people in time long enough before his attack on the House of Dormont that everyone inside knew he was coming, there were a wall's worth of newspaper articles about him, and everyone was expecting Euphrasie to defeat him.

Mirabelle's quest began 'almost a year ago' and Sif lost their eye 'recently'.

Thoughts on the above:

Calculating when The Island was forgotten:

Sif being mid 20s to 30 and having run away from home as a teen means that The Island has to have been forgotten somewhere between 9 to 17 years ago with nine only possible if he ran away at age 17 and is only age 26 now, and seventeen being the far opposite if he ran at age 13 and is currently 30.

To narrow down the timeline: Given Sif ran away from home because he 'didn't want to eat his veggies' and 'just wanted to scare [his] parents a little bit' it's probably safe to assume Siffrin was likely on the younger end of the teen spectrum (teens run off all the time sure but with loving parents and over veggies? That screams 'kid who has not yet learned that freaking out the parents will get their ass grounded and/or yelled at a LOT and is therefore best saved for doing fun forbidden stuff that ideally the parents will never find out about' XD) Additionally given Siffrin can't remember his age/birthday etc but Isabeau outright says near the beginning of the game "But you're older than most of the people here?" meaning Sif must be visibly older than Isa or Mira, so he's probably closer to 30 than not.

Those alone would imply the Island likely disappeared closer to the '17 years ago' side of things BUT Nille (tops 20 years old) told Bonnie that "[the Island's disappearance] was all the adults would talk about for ages" and kids usually can't remember anything prior to 4 years of age so with that in mind...

I'd say The Island most likely disappeared between 13 to 16 years ago.

Nille stuff:

This is more a general mention but. Nille is tops 20 years old. Bonnie is between 8 and 12 and doesn't remember their parents at all.

This means Nille ran away with Bonnie and gained emancipation and custody of Bonnie (if Vaugarde has formalised that kind of legal stuff) while she was at most 12 years old herself and could have in theory been as young as 6..!

Regardless, it's very likely the original home situation was that bad, Nille deserves a ton of credit for raising Bonnie as well as she has and I'd say it's very VERY likely she had a lot of help from villagers in Bambosche and/or the local House of Change in doing so. ...But also Bonnie is very adamantly 'my sister and village' and not 'my sister and [specific names who live with us]' so there's clearly by the time Bonnie was 4 or so they were living in their own place so... Yeah. Lotta drive for independence there too it seems (so the party might have more trouble adopting Nille into their group post ISaT than Bonnie might expect).

King stuff:

Already an adult 13 to 16 years ago so at bare minimum 33. Given his vibe probably much older though.

Newspapers get printed pretty quick though for there to be so much speculation and research done into his background so quick, either Vaugarde has some form of fast messaging system (something like a Chappe telegraph on top of the Houses of Change? Odile I think does mention that they'll have a message sent to let Nille know they'll be returning Bonnie...) or the King was freezing stuff for IDK around a month or two before reaching Dormont? Alas can't find out how long it takes to walk across all of France out very easily (I'm sure the numbers are out there but my brain is pudding rn) but if we had those numbers we could probably make some guesstimates based off the rough sketched map of Vaugarde InsertDisk5 did... Which I would link but apparently the tumblr post I had it linked on has been deleted???? 'wails at this very unhappy development'

Mira's journey and Sif's eye:

We really don't know a lot but almost a year ago gives us somewhere around 9 to 11 months to spread the journey out along and after eye removal surgery the patient can out and about as soon as 2 to 6 weeks after, maybe sooner with magic healing (though full recovery/growing used to the changed spacial awareness -which Sif clearly does not have- probably can't be sped up and takes around 3 to 6 months) so um. I'd guestimate Sif's eye injury is really recent; like two months ago tops recent. ...Which sorta explains a lot of why Bonnie is not dealing with it right now and also why the others might be trying to avoid bringing it up (since Sif clearly loves avoiding the issue but they haven't yet realised that maybe they really should bring it up even if it annoys them anyway?)

Odile with some Ka Bue speculation:

When it comes to The Island, how did Odile, presumably living in Ka Bue at the time, remember 'when it happened'? Was the Island well known enough even on the other side of the world that it's disappearance made waves? Or was Odile herself or someone she's close to paying attention to the region? (Like maybe her dad or a friend is/was into politics or trade, keeping up with overseas news and got concerned it could happen to Ka Bue? I'd say 'I remember when it happened' line implies it was more immediate knowledge than being informed by a messenger much later though...)

As for Odile's 'years of travel' I have to wonder, what's left behind for her in Ka Bue? She brings up going back there quite a bit, might just miss home and possibly her father if he's still alive, but given it took her years to get here for something so personal rather than idk 'materially rewarding' I think Odile might have some kinda family estate or something back in Ka Bue... Something she wasn't worried about potentially losing while far away, but solid enough to want to return to, beyond her father who she'd definitely want to see again if he's still around. (...But given how open she is to chilling about Vaugarde a few more months with the others, I really don't think he is alive, since well, given their respective ages and travel between Vaugarde and Ka Bue apparently taking years, there'd definitely an uncomfortably high chance of him passing away while she's gone and that seems like the thing that'd stress Odile out so... Yeah. Probably got an estate in Ka Bue she'd like to take the Family to visit/possibly sell off if she decides she'd like to live with them in Vaugarde so... Just my off the cuff headcanoning here and hoping that gives others ideas or something).

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Anyway that's all the ramble I've got in me so... yeah! Hope this was interesting and useful for those needing a bit of a 'possible tech'/timeline calcs breakdown for the Island + a few more vague things and um. Probably will post a long winding ramble about my attempt at a ISaT Selkie AU fic I've been working on next <3 (Not to be confused with looped-140-and-counting's already existing and quite wonderful Selkie Siffrin AU which already has a completed oneshot fic, a snippet of sequel, two snippets of prequel/Sif flashbacking and I believe a comic too, all of which I highly recommend <3)

#isat #isat spoilers #useful notes #in stars and time #speculation ramble #isat timeline notes #hope some of my isat fans out there find this useful for their fanworks <3 #I know its pretty basic stuff but I find having things laid out clearly handy for working out backstory and what to change in AUs so yeah =#i link interesting things. read selkie sif fic rec plz #isat nille #isat siffrin #isat bonnie #start again a prologue mention! (sorry there's not more than that XD)#thinking too hard about what I can and can't get away with in the big beautiful void that is 'left open to speculation' worldbuilding <3 #the forgotten island allows so many shenanigans people are not taking enough advantage of and I will call this out XD #also isat features a surprising amount of 'more modern-ish' tech or magitech that can basically do the same or better so like #Also had way too much fun wiki walking and going 'ohhh that's more recent than I thought. Cool!' and would highly recommend it #please ramble back to me your own random thoughts and notes as I love them even if I'm never sure as whether or not (or how) I should reply

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infriga · 9 months

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I convinced my mom to try the live action One Piece, because she's the type to like this style of show even though she isn't into animation and would never read manga, but I didn't think I'd be able to convince my dad because he's usually a stickler for more grounded and realistic stories (his favourite genre is war movies, his favourite movie is Saving Private Ryan, for reference). But, when I brought up with him how I figured it probably wouldn't be his thing because it was fantasy, he mentioned to me that he does enjoy some fantastical stuff if it has like an internal universe logic, like Star Wars, and the more I thought about it, the more I remembered that he also enjoys campy fun action adventure stuff that doesn't take itself too seriously like Indiana Jones or Pirates of the Carribean.

And One Piece has both that internal logic for why people can perform crazy feats (even if it isn't explained right away) which I mentioned to him (just that there is a reason why people can do crazy things in this world), as well as the campy fun action adventure thing going for it, especially in the Live Action (the fight against Morgan's base even has a major Indiana Jones vibes ngl). So I explained that to him and asked if he wanted to try it, and he agreed to watching the first episode with me to decide if he'd watch it with my mom and me.

AND HE ACTUALLY SAID IT WAS INTERESTING SO FAR!! Like, he is NOT the kinda guy to enjoy anime or manga or even western cartoons, always refuses to watch anything anime and doesn't show any interest when I talk about it (I've managed to convince him to watch a few movies like Sword of the Stranger but it's obvious that even when he's not bored or doesn't hate it, it still doesn't catch or keep his interest), and he's really picky about anything fantasy or SciFi, if it like sets off his bullshit meter too much he starts nitpicking the logic behind certain abilities, or decisions, or explanations, etc. I once tried to get him to try Gravity Falls and he wanted to stop after the first episode. He's THAT picky.

So the fact that he actually laughed several times while watching the first episode of OPLA with me, commented about Luffy's character positively several times (he seems to think Luffy is really funny which surprised me cause I thought he'd be the most entertained by Zoro but I mean I can't blame him it is Luffy after all), never cringed or criticised or said anything about how ridiculous it was, means a lot coming from him cause he's always really blunt and honest about his opinion on this sort of stuff (which is fine I don't want him to pretend to enjoy stuff when he doesn't). He actually watched the whole first episode without it losing his attention, and seemed to have fun! And he agreed to watch the rest with my mom and me!

This sort of thing is one of the reasons why I dislike when people just dismiss the idea of live action adaptations entirely. I get that people are jaded with past failures, and don't like when live action is treated like a replacement for or improvement from animation when it isn't. But it is a valid medium just as much as animation or comics or writing are, and can be used to produce some amazing things. And the fact is, there are people who have a hard time connecting with other mediums who will otherwise never engage with this media in its original forms. Live Action, when done well and done right, can reach new audiences and welcome them into the fold in ways the original formats never can.

One Piece didn't need the live action to be popular, obviously, and the live action cannot and will not replace the original, nor should it. But I love that we get to have it alongside the manga and anime. It's just more of what we love, it's the cherry on top of an already stellar multi-layered cake. It complements the original rather than taking anything away from it. And for the first time in over a decade I might be able to share One Piece with my parents, who would only ever have a chance of experiencing it and enjoying it in live action. There's just something so awesome about that for me personally. I just wish more live action adaptations would understand what the One Piece live action understood about the adaptation process, and that's how to keep the heart of the story in-tact, so more people from more fandoms could have a chance to share something they love with more people who it would otherwise not reach.

Anyway, thank you Oda and the OPLA cast and crew for doing live action right for once!

#one piece #one piece live action #OPLA #When Luffy was talking about breaking into the marine base my dad was like #'he seems like he's got a lot of confidence going for him' with a grinnand a chuckle #And then when Luffy was talking to Nami in the base my dad said something like 'other people seem to have a hard time saying no to him'#Also with a grin and a laugh #And bro if my dad becomes a Luffy fan too I will explode #Like he did laugh at Zoro and Nami a few times but he had the most to say about Luffy and none were complains #He didn't even seem to blink an eye at Luffy calling out attack names lmao #Long post #Just your regularly scheduled post where I gush about OPLA for too long #Tv show thoughts #It's not even that my parents have anything against animation they just for some reason have a really hard time getting immersed in it #Or connecting to what's happening #Even when they try something for my sake they just can't really get enthusiastic about it the way they can for live action stuff #Which I mean some people just don't vibe with certain mediums and that's okay

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puppyeared · 4 months

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i feel like. theres designing a character with certain themes and motifs in mind, and then theres making a gijinka for the water bottle on my nightstand

#me when im the only person on the bus wearing a mask: i should make a furry plaguesona #its hard to explain bc. most of the time i try NOT to give my characters a 'strong' theme like making their whole design around #one thing like apples or even broad stuff like baking or cottagecore.. idk if its partly for flexibility or because i cant imagine them #making it their whole personality. not bc i find it cringe or overblown but more like ive learned to associate design with character depth #i had a cutesy uwu persona for most of highschool because i thought it would make me more. likeable? easy to remember? since #memorable character designs are easy to recognize. and one way of doing that is simplifying it with a theme or symbol so you form an #association. but since im a real person its exhausting keeping up that appearance all the time and denying myself things when they dont #fit my 'aesthetic' or 'theme.' i think ive grown past that bc i just collect stuff because i think it looks cool and dont let myself dwell #on how it might 'fit' with my image. but i cant help feeling bad doing it to my own characters bc it feels like im making them too one #dimensional. despite knowing that theyre not real and design alone doesnt reflect depth i cant help feeling like its wrong #despite that i love seeing motifs because it feels like it reflects the characters soul and paradoxically gives them depth. it makes them #interesting to look at too and honestly its pretty fun combining things that fall under a similar category when designing #i struggle find a balance between those two things #actually this reminds me of noelles christmas theme.. i dont remember her saying anything abt liking christmas despite a lot of #her design and character tying back to it. it makes me wonder if she would have feelings about that or doesnt think abt it too hard #or if its like a matching family shirts situation and shes just going along with it??#maybe i should just do whatever i want with my character designs since theyre not real and im thinking abt it too hard #although. this probably has something to do with deep seated identity issues huh #yapping #oc talk #oc

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indigo-constellation · 2 months

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the Pathologic essay I wrote last year about why I think the Haruspex route Utopian ending is the overall best ending, I still stand by what I said however this somewhat structured essay holds less than half about how much I care about this ending.

In the game Pathologic there are three different routes, each corresponding to each healer. The story also has several endings, one for each of the bound (characters which as the name implies, are bound to their individual healer) as well as a bad ending if the player fails to find any sort of viable solution for the plague. This ability to choose the ending belonging to another healer is an incredibly telling one on the part of the characters, especially when it comes to the Haruspex, and his ability to choose the Utopian, and the Bachelor’s ending. This ending also works quite well when considering the wider narratives of the Haruspex’s route, including the future of the town, his role and sacrifice, and the metanarrative of the story.

In all three routes there lays quite a large weight on the future of the town, as of course it is the battle of the ending, of which vision of the town would become reality. The Haruspex’s bound is known as the Termites, a collection of children who learned from Isidor Burakh, Artemy Burakh’s father. Their ending is the one in which the Polyhedron is destroyed and the town stands, ready to be developed by a future generation. However, it is discovered in one of the other routes of the story, the Bachelor’s route (we will get to him later) that the source of the infection lies underneath the town, in the pockets of blood which have collected beneath. This means that the plague can never be fully defeated unless the town itself is destroyed, as the Polyhedron has already pierced the ground, meaning that there is no returning the plague to its dormant state, trapped underneath the earth. On the other hand, the other side of the river is entirely uninhibited, clean of the plague. This complete lack of prior development also means an ability to create a new town.

The new town built after the Utopian ending is one made, as the name implies, by the Utopians, however, the asymmetrical narrative changes depending on which healer is the one being currently played by the player, so following that logic, the endings would be influenced as well. This would hypothetically mean that the vision Capella has for the future of the town, one in which the Haruspex is a leader of the kin, and the town would be led by the children, could still find its place within the new town. There are also direct connections between the Utopians and Termites as well, such as Casper Kain, also known as Khan, of the termites, being a termite while also being part of the Kain family, which means that despite the rocky relationship amongst the family, he is still a heir to that power. Capella as well, is the sister of Vlad the younger, who at that point is the eldest Olgymsky remaining, and the projected leader of the town’s industry in the new town, she has also planned her engagement to Khan, meaning that she would then have a connection to Kain family as well. Apart from these direct connections, the entirety of the bound is important, each member, independent of faction, still able to impact the future of the town, and in order to achieve the Utopian ending in the Haruspex route both the Termites and Utopians must be fully healed. However these are the more hypothetical results of the ending, in the game itself the cutscene remains the same for whichever healer chooses the ending, which can imply the uniformness of the ending. However even though the Utopian ending described in differing routes can still serve the Haruspex well, the utopia described in the Bachelor route is explicitly stated to need the Earth, “…it's all about what's down below. It requires dirt. A ruby firmament needs something to sit atop-otherwise it'd topple.” This coincides well with the future Capella predicts, with the Haruspex taking his place as the foreman of the Abattoir, showing that there is, in fact, a place for the “earthly and the humane” in the new town. The connections described within the route, the needs of the utopia, and especially the influence of the Haruspex himself, would allow the Utopian ending to be a fitting future in the Haruspex route.

Another very present aspect of the Haurpsex’s route is that of his sacrifice, the idea that he must destroy, kill, something or someone in order for his ending to occur. This concept is mentioned a few times, however it is only fully explained by Katerina Saburova, “You will make a sacrifice. There will be rivers of blood, and that will be your doing.” While I can go into a whole other essay about the ideas of the sacrifice (and I do), we will for this essay’s sake, take the sacrifice as it’s surface level in pathologic classic, and how it’s implications mean that choosing the Utopian ending would have better long-term effects and also complete the Haruspex’s journey.

The Haruspex’s story follows a more classical hero’s journey rather than the Bachelor’s tragedy, with the abattoir symbolising the other world, and Oyun assigning the quite literal trials the Haruspex must go through. Once the Haruspex defeats the Foreman and becomes the new Foreman of the abattoir, however, he is still not respected by the butchers, who require a sacrifice from him. This duality of both the mistress’ prophecy and the requirement of the butchers also shines a light on the Haruspex in Pathologic Classic, someone who knows that he is of two worlds, however also a person who takes pride in both of them, and brings them together.

In the Termite ending the sacrifice is not fulfilled, the Haruspex is not allowed access to the blood, the plague looms as a remaining threat, and the Polyhedron still falls, for nothing.

Unlike in Pathologic 2, where the Polyhedron is quite literally piercing through the heart of the Earth, slowly killing her, in classic it is nowhere near that fatal, still harmful, but not fatal.. This important distinction is also important to make with the fact that while the blood would still seep out from the open wound if the tower were to fall, it would be limited, and would dry out at some point, while on the other hand, completing the sacrifice would allow the Haruspex access to the blood in the Earth, as the butchers would allow him to find the hidden reserves.

The sacrifice herself, Aglaya Lilich is someone already doomed by the powers that be, a doll loved by their mother and so hated by them, she dies in every ending but the Termites’. There is, of course, a point to be made about the theme of a woman having to die for a man’s journey is not a good one, and choosing this ending would feed into a harmful cliche, however, her death is something she herself understands, and although she urges the Haruspex not to make it, she acknowledges that she is meant to be the sacrifice, that choosing this choice will be enough, “If you lead him to victory, you may consider your sacrifice made. You return to the exultant butchers, triumphant.” Her death is not regarded as a simple shock factor to the end of the story, it is the pivotal choice the Haruspex must make. This is also shown in the Changeling route, where saving Aglaya is seen as an act of deceit, as even Clara’s ending, which saves the town, requires Aglaya to die, as Aglaya is a ‘queen’ an important piece on the board at the end of the game, her life only allows for the Termite ending, only allows for the Haruspex to lose his standing within the kin, and only allows for the sacrifice of the Polyhedron.

The Polyhedron is viewed as the sacrifice in the case that the Haruspex seeks to save Aglaya, however would it even work as one? The sacrifice needed is one of equal value to the Udurgh, the body that contains the world, and if the Utopian route is the one followed, the Udurgh is Simon Kain, and so the sacrifice must be someone who is more than human, and yet human. The Polyhedron, on the other hand, contains no human element, yet, it is the container for a human soul, a chimaera of living and nonliving, however in the Termite ending it is empty, and therefore cannot serve as sacrifice. Both Katerina and Capella’s opinions support the Bachelor’s argument in favour of the Polyhedron standing as well, Katerina outright claiming that “ I know for sure that you are to destroy a woman…” However, seeing that Katerina’s prophecies are often wrong, this statement must be taken with a pinch of salt. On the other hand, Capella clarifies that while Simon is merely a man in the current time, however, “Had Simon been reborn though, had he transferred his spirit to a new vessel-a body huge, perfect, and able to let others in... then he could have been called that.” Well, that rebirth, that new vessel she describes just so happens to match up incredibly well to the Polyhedron, this means that for the Udurgh to exist, for the Haruspex to fulfil his purpose, he must let the Polyhedron stand, must let Simon become the Udurgh. These ideas of sacrifice, of fate, and most importantly, of duty and purpose, greatly define the Haruspex’s story, and the Utopian ending is the only ending which gives it the needed satisfaction by its end.

All of the prior points about the town and the sacrifice have been made with the greatest levels of constraint I was able to amount, this paragraph, admittedly, will be much more personal, as the reasoning it presents was the initial reason for my appreciation of this ending. Simply saying, this paragraph will discuss this ending and the Haruspex’s connections, specifically the connection to the Bachelor. This entire essay could have been written only about this, specific subject, however, there was much more to be said about this ending, and the exercise in restraint was appreciated, despite the, challenges (No Zero I cannot give into the g urges early, fruit.) This paragraph will discuss the relationship between the Bachelor and the Haruspex (of course) as well as the metanarrative of Pathologic classic, especially when it comes to the ends and in considering the Bachelor route in comparison to the Haruspex one.

During the Bachelor run, there is not a single chance to access the abandoned workshop the Haruspex works in, even trying to teleport into the workshop will fail, This comes with the precedent that as the Bachelor, you will not meet the Haruspex until the fifth day, from which point on he is only truly present for days 5,8,9, and of course, day 12. This is of course, a great disservice and the Pathologic 2 route should really have more Haruspex in it, however on a less tangential point, it a great difference from the haruspex route, in which the Bachelor appears for almost every single day of the playthrough, The Bachelor is likely to be the character the player interacts with the most, and over the game the connection between the two characters grows over time, with the Bachelor switching to use Artemy Burakh’s first name. However this closeness between the two is present throughout the entirety of the route, from the very first line the Bachelor speaks to the Haruspex (We will get to that later) to even the descriptions of quests and locations which the Haruspex takes note of, even I was surprised at just how much there was between these two in my first playthrough. All that builds to the point in which these two characters, at the very least, care for one another, deeply enough that the Haruspex has multiple dialogue options which are explicitly supportive of the Utopian ending within his Cathedral discussion with the Bachelor, with all but two of the dialogue branches allowing him to ask the Bachelor for his advice, and only one serving as a direct rejection. And that is what choosing the Termites ending in the Haruspex route is, a rejection, all throughout the route the Bachelor will attempt to convince the Haruspex of the validity of his ending, and in the Haruspex route, the Utopian ending is incredibly tied to the Bachelor, to Daniil Dankovsy, with the implication that if tower, if the last remainder of his research will not survive, that neither will he. Much like Aglaya, his fate is tied to the aspect of the town he is bound to protect. The Bachelor, who, while still placed as more antagonistic, still has his choice, his option for the ending still weighed as equally as the Inquisitor’s, the story places them as equals, “Two diverging pairs of decisions. Both pre-determined…” Which also clarifies that the Utopian ending was never less free than the Termite one, as they are both pre-written, scripted.

This leads into another extremely important aspect of Pathologic Classic HD, the meta, not only can you be reminded twice per round that the story is not real, but multiple characters and scenarios note that this is still a game, still a story the player is playing a part of. A big part of the meta story is the fact that the town is in fact, a sandbox, and the characters are merely dolls. The Polyhedron is a water container which was stuck into the sand, and the water within it had caused a mold, causing the sand pest within the reality of the characters. Removing the tower would help nothing; the mold has already spread, the only option forward is to remove the sand, or play somewhere else, which is what the destruction of the town means, the Utopian ending is the only one which actually, truly addresses this.

Another very meta aspect of the story is the relationship between the Haruspex and Bachelor, which is seen in the very first line spoken from the Bachelor to the Haruspex. The order the game suggests the routes is to begin with Bachelor, continue to Haruspex, and end with Changeling, and viewing the story as one continuous thing in that order adds a lot of depth to the story, with, “ Yes... Far be it from me to call myself a person of mystical inclinations. However, when I look at you, I get the feeling that nature is playing jokes on us. It's as if both the left and the right hand have clutched the head to realise for the first time that they are two parts of a single whole.” The Bachelor quickly disarms the player, not only is this statement a clear representation of the fact that they are two parts of a single whole, they are all healers, all part of the role the player plays, but this line is just plain out not something to say to someone you just met. Dankovsky continues his, less than normal interactions towards the Haruspex throughout the route, to the point that two of them have the closest connection here than almost any other two characters in any route, to the point even the developers themselves reflect upon it in that same dialogue I mentioned before, “Two diverging pairs of decisions… And then, you see, there were also feelings involved... Love.” While this can be applied to Aglaya instead, in the context of the conversation, which is Clara asking the developers about the two other healers specifically, that simply would not make sense. There is a lot more textual and meta evidence about these two, but I am straying off course too much already and this paragraph is already very very long, so we will just move swiftly back to the actual point of the essay :) (BUT YES I COULD WRITE A WHOLE ENTIRE THING ABOUT HOW DANIIL IS WRITTEN AS A LOVE INTEREST IN THIS ROUTE)

Let us not forget, however, a reason as to why the Bachelor wishes to destroy the town, and that is that Daniil is incredibly petty and jealous of Aglaya, from the initial curiosity at their initial meeting, “...She was so impressed by your dignified demeanour … What did you tell her that touched her so much?” To the outright spiteful, “My dear Burakh, she is your sacrifice! I don't think it is at all necessary to slit her throat with your own knife … if the town is destroyed, the head of Aglaya Lilich will be separated from her shoulders in less than a day.” He also partially agrees with Artemy that he seeks to keep the Polyhedron out of spite. However one must take into consideration the Bachelor’s route, in which he is consistently used and betrayed, the biggest offender being the Inquisitor herself. The only person who does not do so is the Haruspex, so it makes sense he would do quite literally anything to keep that being the case.

The fact is, Daniil Dankovsky suffers, in almost every single ending he is not at a good place, all of the endings from his own route for one, as that route is quite literally a tragedy, as well as the fact that Eva is dead in it, that also goes for Changeling route endings, as well as the fact that in that route he is in general incapable of a happy ending, which only leaves the Haruspex’s route for him to have any possibility of contentment (sorry g boy) Immediately we can also rule out the Termite ending in the Haruspex route, and in the Humbles ending he is the only one without a place, the Haruspex, as the Foreman, would still have a role to play, but Daniil would not, her victory is also the least rational one, and therefore, the hardest one for him to agree with. That leaves, of course, one ending, the Haruspex route Utopian ending, in which the Bachelor is not left in misery.

Other than that, this ending, just like all endings in which the player picks the ending of the bound other than their healers’ is a direct victory over fate, over the ‘set’ ending for the route. The executor, the stand-in for the developers in the ending of the game says as much, “The only enemy, the only evil in this story, you see, is called Inevitability…” This also lends itself to the idea that the belief that there is only one ‘right’ ending for each healer, that they should only be considered by their bound’s choice, is a wrong one. This refusal of fate, refusal of the ending implied to be the ‘correct’ choice of the Haruspex since the very beginning of the game, is the ultimate victory of the player, and of the characters with them.

In almost all discussion of the Pathologic endings, the only possibilities considered are the ones given, each healer choosing their own bound’s end, but Pathologic is far more dynamic than that. The story is asymmetrical, and so are its endings, which is why Bachelor’s route Utopian ending is quite possibly the most tragic, hopeless one, and the Haruspex route one is the complete opposite. There is no ‘good’ ending, of course, no, that would be too simple, however, there are some which are clearly better than others, and due to the future of the town, the impact this has on the Haruspex’s story, and arguably most importantly, the meta and interconnected aspects of this ending, it can be considered as a good ending. It is a belief that the Utopian ending in any context, is a bad one, however, in the words of the Haruspex himself, “Any choice is right as long as it’s willed.”

#pathologic #daniil dankovsky #artemy burakh #pathologic classic hd #burakhovsky #implied #a lot of the rest of my thoughts can be boiled down to “i kinned danko too hard oops”/hj #but there is so much to be said about this one particular ending and the way it does have the longest term good impact on the world #unlike most other patho endings which when considered outside of a vacuum would be really bad as things to happen to the real world #don't want to get into how the termite and humble endings are kinda conservative but utopian is the only one driving the world forwards #under artemy's influence it's even better

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frootbyethefoot · 2 months

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thinking about chapter four this fine afternoon (<- never not thinking about chapter four)

#i actually really like the doodle i did with gonta and ouma #the spotlight is getting to me. i might make it a full piece #anyways thought too hard about ms iruma and it devastated me #chapter four is a tragedy on all sides #especially with chapter five in mind...#i'd give anything to see more of ouma and mius alliance pre chapter four #i have a lot of thoughts on them. frenemies that almost trusted eachother in a very Odd way #drv3 #joeys art #miu iruma #kokichi ouma #gonta gokuhara #image described

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mae-i-scribble · 3 months

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I'm doing a very slow reread of orv with some friends, but since I can't talk about my spoilerous rambles with them too much I have decided to make a post here to get my thoughts out. Up to chapter 25, I've been surprised by the amount of little hints we're already getting for larger plot points and the things that are recontextualized now that I'm looking with hindsight rather than experiencing it for the first time, which really speaks to how phenomenally written orv is on a fundamental level. By the time we get to the 3rd scenario, we've had Dokja mention his mother once, when he briefly worries over her safety. Then we get this line:

"I looked around at the people. The first scenario was original sin. Thus, none of the people here were innocent. That made it more disgusting. Those who trampled on someone else to survive, who couldn’t even bear responsibility for their own life."

Of course it's firstly talking about the lack of morality in this world, when faced with the truth that between the major and minor groups of Gumho station, one fact makes them equal: they are all murderers. The use of the phrase "the original sin" caught my eye because when looking at Dokja's life, murder is his original sin- the murder of his father. That is what sparks the events leading up to this point. It is the true original sin of this world. However, that being followed by "That made it more disgusting...who couldn't even bear responsibility for their own life," is rather hypocritical in that regard. We have no way of knowing exactly how much of that night Dokja remembers at this point of the story, so there are 2 ways to interpret this in regards to his father's murder. 1) Dokja does not remember that he murdered his father, but remembers that his mother had taken responsibility for her crime and served her sentence. In regards to here the people of the minor are far inferior because they cannot adapt the way Sookyung did to their crime. 2) Dokja does remember that he murdered his father, and this disgust is equally leveled at himself, because he knows his mother is innocent but that she took responsibility from Dokja. Thus Dokja of back then is just like these people, unable to take responsibility for his crime.

Then, later on, we see the text, and Dokja specifically, focus on this particular pairing in the minor group.

"The people started to move. All in all, they were people who had already killed. “M-Mother!” “Dayoung, come here! Do this! Just like what you did on the subway with Mother!” Children and mothers."

Then in Chapter 25 we have:

"I honestly admired that the mother and child survived the bloody fight. If she had that much strength, they might be able to survive without going with us."

The English translation doesn't exactly lend itself to identifying the gender of the child, and I am miserably monolingual so I'm not sure if the original text specifies Dayoung's gender, but for thematic reasons I'm choosing to imagine them as a mother/son paring. In that regard, Dokja choosing to notice them out of everyone else, when he's an extremely apathetic person in these early chapters who doesn't care much for those not directly related to him or the story/his survival is very notable. I can't help but think he sees himself in that, as both the son of a murderer and a murderer himself. It's also notable that when complimenting the pair, he only focuses on the mother's strength. Which like. The subconscious projection is so real. To Dokja the child didn't do anything it seems, it's only because of the mother's strength that they will be able to live on. I'm sure I will be back to add more info on this as I trudge through the novel because Dokja and Sookyung's relationship makes me mentally ill all the time but for now I shall simply lay down and ponder(tm)

#orv #orv spoilers #kim dokja #lee sookyung #i think the manhwa has covered this but just in case #anyways holy shit ss went way too hard with this novel #the fucking layers #IVE HAD SO MANY DISCORD CONVOS ABOUT THE FIRST 20 CONVOS ALONE #thats how fucking dense this novel is #maybe i'll put more of the thoughts here on tumblr because sometimes i do have good thoughts and opinions actually #and my friends' viewpoints are very fun to get since they all focus on different things

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