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fumifooms · 17 days

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"Marchil? I guess I can see it on Chilchuck’s end, but what about Marcille’s? What makes you think she could develop feelings for him?" I’m glad you asked!

The first thing to note is that she does think highly of him

In the page on the right, literally defending his virtues and literally comparing him to Dalclan. And oh…

She does love a brooding mysterious guy who closes himself to love. But surely, Chilchuck isn’t her type at all, right? He’s not princely or knightly at all. In apperances certainly not, both looks wise and demeanor wise, but then that’s why she seeks to know him on a deeper level, to not only look shallowly.

And hmm. Chilchuck really is quite selfless isn’t he? Always looking out for others, and saving specifically her often, always making sure himself and, staying in or even running towards danger for her sometimes. Modesty is often considered heroic…

And can we talk about that drowning one… You can definitely frame the special attention as him knowing she tends to hesitate or be clumsy, and then his insistance on pulling her out of danger that she’s the healer aka the most important to keep alive, but. From the one who says that he just keeps his ass out of fights and won’t help this is a lot of risk to take, and he does die trying to pull her to safety in the dungeon rabbits chapter. And the drowning bit??? That’s when the dungeon collapses. The only reason they DON’T die of drowning here is that the water then gives way to outside. There was NO hope of pulling her to safety here and resurrections would likely not work either, he truly preferred to die with her than try to survive himself.

Sit your ass back DOWN you are in no state, self-sacrifical hero much damn

And Marcille definitely noticed this imo, after all she loves learning all she can about him, remembering things like how he hates waiting on people too. She pays attention to him and what he does and what he says. This to say that it’s notable, whatever reason for it you may think (though we know by this point at least she was already aware he was an adult though it wasn’t internalized), out of everyone it’s Chilchuck’s bed that she wants to sleep in during the Golden Kingdom stay. He’s safe and comforting to her: dependable, the defining trait in her view of him as is shown by the relationship chart in the Adventurer’s Bible.

^ Lending handkerchiefs is a romance trope btw and handkerchiefs have irl history of being used for courting. Especially in old English literature and plays like Shakespeare’s Othello, and personally I do see a lot of Shakespeare in Dalclan (nobility political drama with some romance). There’s how his cowl is a dearly beloved souvenir from his family too, there’s a lot of aesthetic tropes you can apply to him.

All this to say you can 100% romanticize Chilchuck into a princely noble guy if you try and that’s exactly what Marcille does with the wife roleplay. She doesn’t need much in the first place, she latches onto crumbs and makes aesthetic narratives out of details, give her an inch she’ll take a mile.

But what’s interesting about the shift throughout the arc of her and his relationship is that she starts out idealizing him into a little angel of a kid (shapeshifter), and she ends it idealizing him as a virtuous husband and family man instead.

And what’s doubly interesting is that in the former, she’s actively warping who he is personality and demeanor wise to fit the aesthetic, he doesn’t have that bitter pride of not asking for help and the edges have been smoothened. But what she does during the wife roleplay is something else, she acknowledges the flaws and just… Accepts them, rolls with them. She’s aware of his flaws and implements them into the narrative, but the reason why his wife left doesn’t capitalize on them even, rather Chil is chilblivious and his wife loves him very much still, she’s just testing him after having had a night of feeling out of place at his side.

And this is what separates the idealization vs romanticization, she’s not twisting him into someone else she’s just uplifting what he is and focusing on the good sides.

Marcille: "he has a shitty personality sometimes but if he was my husband I’d still cherish him" "If I were your wife I’d be overjoyed to go out with you and would get myself prettied up while you complain about me taking a long time, your friends would tell me that I’m nice and that’d make me happy, but I’d also be sad because you wouldn’t tell me that you love me enough"

He’s angry and his wife left him, he’s *flawed*, but he’s still worth hyping up, still worth having his own romance story, still has a shot of winning back his beloved. She sees him for what he is, human and real and not a carefully scripted character that fits an aesthetic, and she thinks it’s still worthy of love and admiration and fighting for

And what’s funny too is that you might expect her to cool down on him once she learns more about him but actually she only gets increasingly into his business. You tell her your age and next thing you know you promise to introduce her to your family. Give her an inch she takes a mile. And too the thing is, Senshi is equally mysterious but she doesn’t pester him like at all, asks him ONCE about his succubus and he doesn’t even answer and that’s like… It. With Chilchuck it starts off innocently enough with her wanting to know his age, hometown, the stuff she mentions having asked pre-canon. But it just keeps and keeps going and escalating. Think she’ll be satisfied now knowing you have a wife and kids, maybe she’s disillusioned now? Wrong! She wants to know their names and ages and occupations and hey how did you propose to your wife? Do you think she’ll stop after meeting them? What’s next? What will she want to know next????

She’s… Like it’s not a reach that Marcille is all over him. Like it doesn’t mean it’s romantic but she just is. She is not normal about him idk. Can you not ask him about what tongue technique he used when first kissing his wife, give the man breathing room

Marcille could literally go "if I was Chilchuck’s wife" having deeply pondered and thought out the hypothetical and people would still ask where anyone sees any romantic potential between them. Oh wait

There’s a platonic explanation for everything (almost?) in Dungeon Meshi don’t say I’m saying otherwise, but it’s definitely not like there’s nothing here to read into lol

Going off a bit more under read bc it’s my fave topic

Marcille has a whole theme with the charming prince trope with her idealization and storybook motif and Chil is kinda the "Well someone perfect like that isn’t very realistic and romance is usually more complex and that’s ok and good and flawed people can still be ✨virtuous✨" catalyst

Do you see do you see she starts canon thinking the most romantic thing is a prince charming but her arc in the end has her romanticizing an average, flawed, real and realistic family man, who’s on the poorer side and is on the verge of divorce. And that’s what he needed, too, seeing the positive of himself and the situation instead of focusing on the negative is explicitly what inspires him to hope that he might be able to reconcile with his wife, gives him the courage and self-esteem to shoot his shot.

He IS a prince figure instead that now it’s not about idealizing the grand and overt it’s about romanticizing the small things in real life!! About finding joy and beauty in things that seem normal or mundane and uplifting them to make the world feel kinder!!!!

He’s the devoted virtuous man that she wantsss not the storybook prince that’s unrealistic and could crumble like a script at any time. He’s the perfect example of a flawed realistic but virtuous & devoted & loving man. Far from a prince charming, but not fully detached from it either. Something worth fighting for despite the flawed cracks. Like literally, flawed romance being worth fighting for is literally the finale of Chilchuck and Marcille’s arc on the matter, where their separate arcs and issues intersect at the most crucial moment.

Marcille is important to Chil’s arc not only because of her optimism, but also because of her interest and knowledge in romance & matters of the heart, and that’s what he needs to both open his heart up to hope and to try to reconcile with his wife, like idk sounds gay

Their arc together is literally learning to 1) see each other for how they are and not undermining their qualities capacities etc etc while still not leaving flaws unchecked either and 2) opening up to people. Marcille LITERALLY makes Chil open his heart up to hope like idk man. What do you want from me. He’s literally the guy helping her through deconstructing novels and fantasy and rose tinted glasses and like. Deconstructing the prince charming figure into something more real but still romantically beautiful like KUI KUI STOOOOP STOP I’M ALREADY HOOKED I’M ALREADY-

Ok fine that’s me reading into the tropes too much forgive me for being storybook brained but like. Speaking his heart out to a lone woman on a balcony, Romeo and Juliette shit, asking if she, too, doesn’t want to meet his family, madly blushing. And like she’s learned with Chilchuck it’s all in the little things, all the implications he cannot speak aloud. She does reciprocate, does blush madly back, and the first thing she does is shower him in flowers and jewelry and what in her heart is coded as romantic gifts

A lady, stashed away in a high tower by her lonesome, waiting for someone to call out to her from below… Romeo courting type shit with an offer, a heartfelt spiel, implicit confession from underneath her balcony. Offering him flowers because he succeeded in calling out to her heart…….. And they have to climb to her too…. Crazy

Doesn’t it sound like a proposal. One that’s both so storybook-like and not, contrastedly real and grounded, all about the implications rather than in your face grand gestures, "Don’t you want to meet my family?". They literally have an arc about the topic of romance and this is the climax/pinnacle of it like god?? This is @ the woman who said "Chilchuck is a shy/bashful man so I know he wouldn’t tell me he loves me, but…" btw

To quote a friend, truly the shiny secret unlockable dating sim capture target : THE DUNGEON LORD BIT WAS SO FUNNY BECAUSE HE KNEW SHE'D TAKE IT HOOK LINE AND SINKER HES THE ONE WHO GOT HER TO TURN AROUND COMPLETELY SHES LIKE. WIDE EYED FLAG RAISED???? FLAG RAISED WITH CHILCHUCK 👀👀👀‼️👀👀‼️👀

And the way that this is the culmination of their arc together… Like people are not ready for the ‘Chil calling out to dunlord Marcille on the balcony has Romeo and Juliette romance novels imagery’ take. Or the ‘their arc is about growing to see beauty even in the non-idealized, in the flawed and in the real’ take which makes it so so perfect if she were to lower her ideal from a charming elven prince to a virtuous halfling man (which she does end up romanticizing)

So there, you got to witness in real time what happens when I think about marchil for longer than 2 minutes, there are so many layers it’s a deranged rabbithole. I saw the necronomicon of subtext and it’s driving me to madness with forbidden knowledge that no one else sees

……. Like what if I told you she implicitly picked Chilchuck over a "unrealistic prince charming who’s actually disingenuous" much earlier in the story already. If she was given the choice to think through going with a guy that seems perfect and chivalrous like her succubus she’d pick Chilchuck over the other actually. If I sound insane rn tune in for my full analysis on them coming this month hopefully thank youu. Interwoven arcs of fantasy vs reality and idealization vs pessimism I love youuu

So now you know the general thesis of my planned analysis about the importance of the prince charming figure in Marcille and Chilchuck’s arc, where she romanticizes things to a sometimes worrying degree or idealize people into something easy and digestible and poetic (like Chil being a kid, and then him being a virtuous ✨✨✨husband), and how she needs to value aesthetics less and actual acts and facts more, be more grounded (like seeing people for what they are flaws and all, and accepting that people need money and not pulling through on principles of honor or unity shouldn’t get Namari shamed) and a part of that is accepting that Chilchuck is BOTH flawed and virtuous, a loving husband that still has shitty moods and fumbled his marriage so bad etc etc. So it’s like, her image of perfect prince charming that will whisk you away on an ethereal romance -> realistic flawed middle aged dad with personality issues and a failing marriage but he still is worthy of love and having his cute grand romance story and his happy ending. Ik I keep repeating the same point through this but I need it to be burned into everyone’s brains it has its grip on me I can’t do this. They are so special……

#Someone did ask (on discord) btw i’m not just being a smartass though I do love being that too #This is stuff I cover in my upcoming marcille & chil arc analysis except here I can go full romo and don’t keep the strictly platonic angle #It’s at like 15k words rn I think. The 30 pics limit is killing me which is why I started asking my friend to do collages of panels for me #Sob #I keep alternating between it and the Falin analysis save me. Should be dropping soon idk i might test out having a beta reader for that on #Marchil foreplay is 2 years of being coworkers and slowly worming personal questions out of him until he blinks and she has #a key to his house #Dungeon meshi #marchil #marcille donato #chilchuck tims #like they’re so so funny look at this shit. Nonconsensual romanticizing of you as a person. Obsessive interest in your personal life #She’s latched so hard onto the “mystery” of him they’re deranged #MAYBE ITS ALL COMPROMISES MAYBE ITS ALL SWEET INBETWEENS <3 #maybe we'll take our vision of what we thought we could be and make something new together. something for just us #Fumi rambles #Maaan Marcille’s ‘idealizing him into liking him even for all his flaws bc his personality is often kinda shitty’ arc’#and Chilchuck’s ‘prejudice against elves and mages and optimism into respect and trust’ arc are everything to me #Meta #Spoilers #Dungeon meshi manga spoilers #Tagged this so late oops #It’s so funny. She’s canonically wondered how Chil would be like as a lover #No no but like do u see. Fantasy is a key part of her chrcter and arc and he’s the foil to that he’s the thing that comes challenge it

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fagmegumi · 2 years

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generally beginning to realize that most people who thirst for the jjk men are doing so incorrectly and for the wrong reasons like just making up a generic archetype of a really cool hot guy from those het smutty self published amazon novels and pretending theyre the jjk dudes. when you can say anything about gege akutami but he gave us such a diverse & fascinating cast of hot dudes who are losers in such specific and different ways but always so devastatingly that none of them get any hole whatsoever

#like gojo is this hot super strong unflappable cool guy but he only had 1 friend who tolerated him bc they were both the most insufferable #guy around and ever since he died he’s been annoying hapless teenagers who cant do anything about his obnoxious presence and thats his #whole social life.#toji is a badass action hero who also in his head has the Action Man backstory of yes i may have been a shitty deadbeat dad… but i did it…#to Protect My Family😤 but his legacy is that megumi doesn’t remember or think about his and when he does its ‘oh yea that loser’ and also #as previously mentioned his only employable skill is Can Cut Down Big Monsters; Fast and he looks like he uses dish soap on his hair #sukuna would be the closest to the idealized hot powerful guy image at least if ur a monsterfucker which i know many of us in the lgbt #community are. but he’s also an apocalyptic maneating entity who’s tied to the whims of a chaotically good teenager who would eat an entire #jar of mayo on a dare and summon him to ask for an opinion on his new hair dye.#which is both a hysterical premise that should be used more in fanart/fic for comedy AND profoundly pathetic on his part.#only exception to all this is nanami but thats bc he is textually canonically there to offset the swagless vibes of the main adult cast esp #gojo with his dignified huge dick energy.#to be clear i dont profoundly care about any of this like i think its funny im not mad about it . but as a known pathetic guy desirer i had #to say my piece #personal #jjk

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fruitsaladc0wboy · 11 months

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I think the thing a lot of people are misunderstanding the “everything post s13 is just a simulation run by epsilon” thing is that like. yes it’s just a simulation but it’s also a probable future of something that COULD happen to the reds and blues. like I feel like the route they’re taking is less “none of this matters anymore because it wasn’t real lol” and more “here are some more things that COULD happen to the reds and blues but there are also a million other adventures they could hypothetically go on and it’s up to you to decide what’s real” so really everything post 13 is as canon as you want it to be. I could be totally wrong but that’s just the vibe I got from the trailer and also my own wishful thinking

#im also totally fine with those seasons being retconned personally but this is like. my ideal rvb ending LMAO #also consider the fact that it is extremely funny that zero is now canonically church making a marvel movie with his friends #bc he thought it was cool #zero is now equivalent to the sarge movie from the psas. and I think that’s beautiful #rvb #red vs blue #babble bee

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jamlabs · 5 months

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Being a GG fan in queer spaces is so exhausting sometimes bc every time I try to talk about it transfems always make some sort of joke about Bridget like. Okay I'm glad you like her and I WILL fight transphobes to the death for her but she isn't even in my top 15 gg characters?

Like can you guys maybe stop enjoying this media at a surface level and making the same jokes at me, a person who is known to be insane about their interests? Me talking about how much I love guilty gears music is not an invitation to ask "is the town inside you" like no. That's a super mid song. I am talking about the metal, the hard rock, and the fucking pipe organs . I was literally talking about how much I loved Necessary Discrepancy? And love letter to the future? HELLO?

Idk I'm just. So fucking tired of people engaging with GG on the most shallow level and then attempting to joke with me about it. Yeah haha brisket whatever

#j.txt #this has happened in queer spaces so many fucking timed im just. tired.#i bring up kum haehyun as another trans girl and get ignored i bring up the transgenderism and transhumanism of gears and get ignored #but hahaha BRISKET!!!! so funny!!!#like all the ppl in my personal life who are like this dont even care about her story just that shes trans #and its so. weird to me. to have this fixation on 'rep' and ignoring everything that doesnt fit in with the imagined ideal in your mind #bridget is reduced down to funny soft meme tgirl when shes actually very cool !#i think this is just a widespread instance of why fanon sucks and is bad bc it sands characters down into a single character trait #and then propagates so much that it feels like a completely different thing these people enjoy

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bumblingbabooshka · 11 months

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Ok. Get closer why don’t you.

#Chakotay opens the door to Janeway's ready room and the two of them are literally in each other's laps #but they're talking very seriously about work business and seem unperturbed by Chakotay's entrance #<- my ideal (bc I think it's funny)#Chakotay: What are you and Tuvok to each other?#Janeway: ?? He's one of my dearest friends and most valuable officers.#Chakotay: Right. No..it's just that I saw you kiss his hand the other day? As if pledging loyalty to a monarch but more tender than that -#there was a glitter in your eyes like love but to call it 'love' would cheapen it so you leave it unnamed? I just saw that and was curious.#Janeway: That's just a friend thing v_v are we on for dinner?#Chakotay: Sure (later) Hey Tuvok what is Janeway to you?#Tuvok: She is one of the greatest individuals I have ever had the honor of knowing - someone I consider a friend - family -#and a piece of my very soul can be found within her. Why?#Chakotay: Aren't you married?#Tuvok: -equivalent of sighing- it isn't romantic. (right. yeah of course.)#<- my ideal (bc I think it's hilarious)#It isn't romantic Chakotay my God...Have you read any poetry lately? Once you get 1000 hours into ancient poetry THEN maybe you'll get #what's going on #Also sidenote this crew is fucking doomed mental health wise HEHEHE they tried therapy ONCE (after trying 'literally just erase the trauma')#and the therapist FELL ASLEEP #I love these bastards HEHEHEHE #Janeway: Doctor I'm going to do my best to help you...I allowed you to evolve into a being greater than a mere hologram and I owe it to you #to let youzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzsnorkmimimimi #tuvok cam

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aghhtdraws · 2 years

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random phone sketches: Leo teaches Usagi about console games (2nd time ever the farm boy has seen games like that)

#rottmnt leo #yuichi usagi #usagi chronicles #samurai rabbit the usagi chronicles #yuinardo #yes that is my new tag for the ship sdfsdf #bc clearly i am a genius /really tho i just think it's a funny ship name #leosagi #crossover ship #can be friendship ideally too lol #phone doodles #just finding older sketches and posting #too lazy to draw anything #aghhtdraws

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anghraine · 1 year

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I was thinking about character flaws and their interrelationship with character growth—like, yes, these can make characters more realistic, dynamic, and sometimes (where relevant) more relatable. For me, flawed characters with actual character growth are almost always improvements from idealized characters who are never allowed to make misjudgments or mistakes.

But that's pretty obvious, and I was thinking some more about why I'm drawn by significantly flawed characters who are still clearly good people and who do remarkably heroic things when push comes to shove. They don't just feel more interesting to me because of this mix of real flaws with a strong and admirable ethical core. To me, they actually feel like better people, even though they are clearly more flawed than the idealized type.

Sometimes it's because their virtues lead them to more drastic heroic actions—often some kind of reversal/amendment of a previous mistake—so there can be a stronger impression of goodness on some audiences even if they aren't literally more virtuous. But I think that's something else going on, too.

I said above that flawed but essentially noble characters can feel like better people even though they are definitely more flawed than idealized ones. But I'd correct that to: because they are more flawed than the idealized ones.

The thing is, I don't quite believe idealized characters unless there's some kind of edge. Fandom sometimes refers to this as "chaotic energy," though I don't think it's necessarily chaotic in a literal sense, just sharp and often unexpected. Usually, these are among my favorite moments for a noble character—like Luke Skywalker losing his shit on the second Death Star or Faramir blaming Denethor for Boromir's death.

I especially don't believe idealized characters as main characters. Their virtues and trivial flaws (when they have them) are just kind of meh to me. A flawed character whose flaws are significant but still considerably outweighed by their virtues, especially if they actually grow over time, feels like a better person to me, because in this odd way, their clear flaws let me believe the virtues are real.

I understand why the uniform everyday niceness of more idealized characters can be very appealing for some people, and the strongest evidence of good character—not how someone acts in flashy extreme situations, but how they act in day-to-day life when they don't have to be nice to everyone, but just are.

I am not one of those people, in part because I grew up in a conservative community that puts an extremely high premium on day-to-day niceness. You should be courteous to everyone! You should take compassion on the unfortunate, and be helpful to your neighbors, and blahblahblah. They're super nice! And part of growing up as a lesbian in that community was discovering how little that niceness ultimately meant.

It's not that all nice people turn out to be bigots supporting horrific policies (though mostly they are in that community). But day-to-day niceness does not in any way prevent that. So when I see characters who are really nice and idealized for the persistent niceness rather than any more pronounced action, my instinctive response is "maybe." OTOH, if someone screws up here and there or has to overcome an inclination towards some major flaw, but can be depended upon to come through when it's super important—that's what good people in my life look like. So I suspect that's part of why it tends to be the heroic type I'm most drawn to and find most convincing and moral.

#maybe it's also bc i'm from the pnw and spent a lot of my adult life in progressive parts of it #so 'chilly to strangers but progressive and ride or die when it counts' is just 'aww' to me #my real people :)#anghraine babbles #long post #general fanwank #i got started thinking about the way more idealized austen heroes get compared to my fave (darcy)#and it's always like ... yeah they're nicer but also i don't care and i don't actually believe they're better people.#but also my best friend and i have been discussing the limits of niceness based on our hometown experiences #(he's a jewish atheist and has also dealt with nice people who turn out to be horrific bigots)#when people talk like the most important thing in a partner is being persistently soft and approachable #or super nice and funny with everyone #rather than common intellectual interests or similar ideologies (things i've seen specifically referenced as inferior concerns)#or handling urgent situations well #i'm just ... damn. couldn't be me #austen fanwank

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pinkopalina · 2 months

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as a huge batjokes shipper i want batman and joker to hate each other in the sense they dont really hate each other, they just have really different goals and see their own version of potential in the other and right now hate is the best word for their situationship. they both love the other for what they could be but neither of them wants to be what the other one wants, and that's equally as frustrating as it is necessary for them to keep existing in their current roles. they're deadlocked and that fate surrounding each other is kind of the point -- we both have to be like this, the opposite of what the other wants, for us to keep existing at all, and for giving me that gift i both love and hate you. it's an agreement. i think the hate that's there now is born from an intense underlying love.

i think batman "hates" joker for being so amazing and smart and cunning, for being able to create grand gestures and schemes, to pull people together under his charisma and make them all believe in something, for being as extraordinary as he is but batman hates that he uses it to hurt people. he hates that joker can't channel his energy into doing something good for the world, that he hurts himself and others just because he wants to be batman's greatest enemy. i think batman wants to help joker but also hates him at this point for joker exhausting him, constantly getting hurt both emotionally and physically by him, joker never trying to improve his situation, throwing away other people's lives, showing batman he loves him by lashing out and hurting him. batman hates joker because he loves his rogues, he wants to help them, and he knows they can do better. he wants to live in a gotham that doesn't need batman but he still needs to be needed, because when there's no batman, what is bruce going to be? without joker, he will continue being batman, but it's an empty crusade. some of my favorite interactions between harvey and bruce are the ones where harvey thanks bruce for "always being there for me, never giving up on me, my very best friend." even with someone like harvey, bruce can still hold onto that hope for his rogues, never give up on them, keep going for them, even if it puts them through the cycle one more time.

i think joker hates batman in the most toxic way possible, but it's still love. i just think he's selfish and doesn't want batman to think about anyone else but him, the same way he operates for batman, but if he must think about other people then joker will make it as amazing as possible! i think he hates batman for wasting his time on ordinary people, people who are so boring that batman claims he has to protect and serve and love them but joker thinks it's all surface-level. batman won't kill joker but he'll leave room for people dying in his crusade. it's a choice he allows, and even if joker knows that's a morally fucked up way to put someone in a box, he doesn't care. batman is the type of person to train himself mentally and physically for decades and dress up in a half-silly-half-menacing costume so that everyone can have an idea about him. batman himself is not normal, and joker knows that and loves that! why is he wasting his time trying to save people that use him, abuse him, don't want him to be the best he can be? i think joker's motivations for loving batman and lashing out as if he hates him lie somewhere in between extreme admiration -- like i truly believe in your cause and that you're the right person to do it, but i'm so angry at you for wasting your time on other people and i'm so hurt and jealous that you choose them over me, just so you can be a hypocrite and let them die if i want them to anyways -- and anger at his hypocrisy -- like it's easy for joker to dedicate himself to chaos and just being in batman's life by putting batman in situations that force him to be a better and better hero, but how can batman sit there and choose and pick what morals he'll uphold and who gets to live and who gets to die?

i want to be your greatest enemy because you are the greatest hero ever, and the only way you and i can keep being the best at what we do is if we do it together, because of what we both believe in.

#does this make sense. they love each other because theyre perfect for each other #but in order to create that perfection they have to do things that build resentment #and in order to ebb that resentment they have to be in constant flux. back and forth. ebb and flow. good and evil. chaos and order.#obsession and indifference.... the two themes i think we miss out on the most bc it hurts when indifference is the opposite of love #and obviously these two cannot be indifferent toward the otther #but when they have plots that do they really fucking hurt!#like when lex luthor comes into the picture and helps joker and joker starts to make batman a little jealous #like okay maybe i dont need you to obsess over maybe any strong ideals can overtake me if u lnow what i mean #and then suddenly batmans gotta prove how well he knows joker and has to be on top of him at all times #um anyways i hope these kind of! made sense!!!!!!!!! djhdkjghijsdfhksdfh #like ideally i think joker just wishes he had batman all to himself but knows he has to share #and hes such a jealous baby that he makes it hard for batman bc of it #and batman is like yes joker jesus fucking christ i love you too but you have to let me have friends #and u have to stop killing people #and jokers like why are you friends with murderers and liars and thieves but IM BAD?#and batmans like bc i actually love everyone and want to help you all and that includes u #and jokers like jo fuck you hypocrtie hahaha see at least in my loneliness i have no laurels to rest on #and bruce is like i may struggle with my morals often but that is only because im always figuring out the best way to keep helping everyone #and if i lose sight of that ill go blind and be like you and then u wont have me anymore #lol sometimes funny tag convos get the dynamic better than the meaty posts #long post #anyways sorry i just havee 2937973957273 thoughts about them and so does everyone and i wanna throw my hat in

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