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struggle-but-its-all-ocean-floor · 6 months

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okay since this question keeps popping at the end of every ask I'll say why they chose jk

Jungkook fits the image US ppl likes like jb a badboy kind of image and jk fits that and jm doesn't

jk has no accent when he speaks English so it's easy and the his pronounciation might not be the BEST but it's a bit better than jm's so it helps

They want someone who will take what they're giving atm like a full English album the way they want or the songs they have given and out of the two jk is the one who currently has no problem with taking the readymade songs and jm won't

jm will Never be ready or want to release an Full English album jk had no problem with that

jm wanted to portray his story by his writing and involvement with songs so he would have not accepted a given album without any input but maybe jk was having a artists block so he was okay taking the offer

Thing is jm will simply not take an offer where he's getting handed an album and he's not putting anything with his art cause as far as i have seen he loves giving his inputs in his all solos so idt he would have just let someone else dictate his album. Idk how to explain this point without sounding rude to jk which i don't want to be but i have limited English so maybe it will sound rude if i use those words but hope you get what I'm saying.

And yes jm has always been more popular in the US Since the beginning while as jk got popular over the time. And yes all of jm's songs from BTS's album have more sales and more streams than jk's (except euphoria which has more Streams). Jm has most streamed and sold out units in the US out of all the members. Yes 'filter' is more streamed and sold song than 'my time'. The data is there on their sols fbs you can check so yes music wise jm has always been popular there and fans wise too cause like jk who's most fans are in the sea countries jm's most fans are from US. Jm actually is first member to have 3 solo songs(Lie, Filter, Serendipity) to sell 500k units in the US.

Things must have changed a little with jk performing at world cup and then with seven all the perfomances he did in the US. You said something like layover also did good without any US promo then no his songs were out of US chart on the 2nd or 3rd day something. Maybe it has re-entered later and all but his title song debuting at #56(idk the exact number) on BB hot 100 would tell you that.

Now jm actually would have beat Taylor in sales and would have got that BBMAS award if only Geffen had moved when fans were tagging them to restock it cause jm already had biggest sales of that week in the US. He needed just some thousands in order to him to get that most sold song beating Taylor but nahhh Geffen would not move a single finger for that. That screams sabotage. And no there's no explanation for geffen's behaviour. You said that seven has high chance of something so Maybe that's why Geffen restocked seven again and again but then how come jm is the only k-pop soloist who's nominated in the main category of sales with other white artists? Because he has the highest sales so tell me what potential they didn't see in LC that they were seeing in seven even tho seven sold less than LC?

You said jm's LC also got TTh so why are ppl complaing about seven's tth...cause jm's title song which is LC korean version has spend 0 days on TTh and his English version spent some 20 days on TTh now you get the difference? One title track not getting a playlist vrs other members getting one. And it's not just about the TTh it's also about the placement on TTh. People with less stream were there on TTh while LC despite having more no of streams didn't get TTh and not only TTh but there's data people posts where you can see shark difference between playlist reach of jm and all other members cause he had less playlist reach till now. The difference is ass big. Jm had some 0.4m radio while jk had some millions radio reach (you might think it's because of the English album so be it). There's too many other things and ways in which jm got sabotaged but this will go wayy too long so yeah let's not go into that.

You said "do you really think jm would have able to pull seven and get those numbers?" Thing is we don't want jm to sing seven cause 1) seven is not my type of song so i wouldn't want jm to sing it 2) it's not suitable to jm 3) jm himself won't accept it. Just as jm was nervous jk was also nervous in plenty of his solo perfomances. Yes vocal wise jk is currently best in BTS but if jm was supposed to perform anywhere with his own song he could pull off anywhere cause you're talking about the member who has the most iconic performances in BTS. Now you must think jk has most iconic perfomces as world cup and the recent one and other festivals but thing is the EVENTS where he performed are iconic but i not the perfomce itself (i did liked the time square one and Jimmy Fallon one). Yes jm get's nervous but so does jk. Now you watch jk's break dance on "Today" and tell me jm wouldn't have done better than that?

Point if the company is capable of doing so much for a solo why are they so incapable of doing basic things for jm?? Idk if you were there or not but literally even the smallest thing during face was getting asked from the comapny from fans by trending tags while that's not the case for others. The 9 days promo of face is another discussion.

Jm did great in US with just one Jimmy Fallon performance. He's just recently re-entered US Spotify with 314k streams whithout any playlist after these many months while other songs are pulling less numbers than that with playlists and all. No one would be able to do that but jm can cause he is that popular there.

i know jk is popular and in demand but that 50% off on album, many versions to buy, tens of remixes screams desperation. with golden and seven they removed all the Things armys were proud of over BTS. every single thing armys dragged other artists for those all the things were given to golden.

You said jm was not being sabotagged intentional but it was not beacuse the comapny hate him it's because he wasn't supposed to be the first one to get that#1. They have a point to prove to west and to show how the investors what hybe America is capable of through jk so of course jm would get sabotaged cause he's coming in the way of that plan. If these last some months didn't tell you that then my one post could never i know that but it is what it is no matter who believes it and who don't.

I thought at first you were going to "support me", but, nope. You wrote:

"Jungkook fits the image US ppl likes like jb a badboy kind of image and jk fits that and jm doesn't

jk has no accent when he speaks English so it's easy and the his pronounciation might not be the BEST but it's a bit better than jm's so it helps

jm will Never be ready or want to release an Full English album jk had no problem with that

JK fits the bad boy image, sure, a bit, he has tattoos, piercings, a more muscular body, etc. He's hot in a way the US is used to. I know some people think JM is too "feminine" or whatever.

That's not true. Jimin's English is actually better than JK's, and I think his accent is better too. Maybe in songs Jungkook's accent is less noticeable. The biggest difference is that Jungkook knows how to sing in English - how to adapt his singing to the language - better. And his voice fits Western pop better.

And here the underhanded comments begin. So, your argument is, that if Jimin was less of an artist and willing to just take what was handed to him (which he did for, you know, Angel pt. 1), then he would've been the preferred choice for Golden and JK's other collabs because he's more popular in the US? Proof?? As far as we know, they chose Jk specifically?

Proof?! Never? I don't think he'd be comfortable, and can't see him do it anytime soon, but I can definitely see him releasing a couple of English singles.

Jimin started Face because the members encouraged him to heal through music. Jungkook wasn't even sure about writing an album and there's nothing he wants to say right now, so he accepted to release an English album and challenge himself in a new way, while delivering fans the album they were waiting for. However, Jimin is working on music now. And you're once more implying they chose JK simply because Jimin wasn't available - again, proof??

Jimin only has writing credits on Lie among his solo BTS songs. He gave his input on choreo, and probably styling and themes. Jungkook has writing credits on Begin and My Time. He also participated in the performance and/or styling decisions behind Dreamers, Seven, 3D, SNTY, and all of Golden. Saying Jungkook didn't give any input on Golden, like Jimin hasn't recorded With You and Angel Pt. 1 without any input of his own, even if they're only collabs... I think Jimin is very much capable of accepting a song that is given to him, and Jungkook very much chose his songs. No one "dictated" Golden. Jungkook has agency. He knew what he was doing. He chose every track.

Listen, I won't fully get into everything else you wrote. It's too much work and I don't care enough to comment. My main take away is that you're making a ridiculous amount of assumptions. Like:

I mean, I'm not sure how you know he would've beat Taylor, but as for Seven, it's because of the tracking period?? Seven only came out in July. Sales aren't just physical sales, right? Streams count? Seven sold less than LC? I'm not sure about that, but you keep comparing two songs that were released months apart as if they came out at the same time?

...

#ask #bts #jungkook #jimin #text #save jikook from this discourse

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hyperfixation-hideout · 2 years

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this is embarassing but i want u to know so sorry im anon im just a coward. Im one of the people who said insults about critics and now i think about it ur right, i wasnt address the real problems just hating the group for existing. i went looking after ur post and i see the harasment on both sides now and i thought how dumb itd be to say the fndm is evil bc of some toxic fans and thats what i was doing with rwde. Ill argue the points now on, instead of accuse people of what i assume about them

You're not a coward; this ask proves it. Thank you for telling me, I'm so glad my words reached you. It's big of you to admit, bigger to recognize it as something worth rethinking, and even bigger to seek knowledge and open yourself to a potential change of view. Thank you for that.

I wanna reiterate some things in case I was unclear, because this is a nuanced topic, so please (pretty please) bear with me before passing judgment <3

First, I'm not advocating for ignoring toxicity found in rwde and r/rwbycritics. It DOES exist and it IS a problem. But people tagging me (& others who were supportive/considerate of my pov) in their hate anons to "prove" all critics are evil missed the points I made. Like I've said, I used to think ill of rwby critics as well, and all it takes to solidify a belief is examples that support it. It infuriates me that people would send asks like that, and I'm so sorry to everyone who gets hate. That's not okay.

What I am saying is the existence of hateful people who use a tag doesn't disprove the existence of non-hateful people who use said tag, nor does it make the tag's existence inherently hateful. ("RWDE" was a jokey name made for a place to critique RWBY without being called rude, so people could blacklist the tag.) I could broadcast every hateful person/take I see in the fndm or r/rwby, but it wouldn't prove everyone in the FNDM is like that. It's basic scientific theory.

It's important to be conscious of the toxic behavior in the FNDM as well, but I wasn't trying to say some wishy-washy "there's bad on both sides so it cancels out uwu" or "don't complain about one group's problems if your group has some too" or imply either group is worse than another. Not at all my intention.

Like you said, a lot of the stuff I see in antirwde or in replies to rwde posts isn't about debating opinions on the show, or discussing points they've made to express why they disagree; it's mainly:

A) Unrelated assumptions about the poster's character/beliefs/credibility (i.e. calling someone a n*zi for having an Ironwood profile picture, telling Jewish people who express discomfort with Coco's allusion that they're faking being Jewish just to bash/accuse CRWBY -- ironic to throw around the word n*zi and then tell Jewish fans they're faking discomfort with a character based on a literal n*zi -- telling queer people who wish Bumbleby had been implemented differently that they're "obviously cishet" and shouldn't complain about representation, telling Black people they're secretly white supremacists for saying the way the White Fang was portrayed was harmful, telling disabled people that pointing out ableist messages/rhetoric is ableist, etc., etc., I've seen it all.)

B) Generalizations of the tag and critique as a whole (saying all rwde posters and critics vehemently hate the show, harass CRWBY, are conservatives, homophobes, Trump supporters, fascist bootlickers, etc.) Yes, I've actually seen this. Many times. From people who directly told me they understood it's not all, immediately turning around to post the opposite in the tag.

C) People who are called out for harassment deflecting with "but look at THIS harassment done to ME, that proves I've never sent hate or death threats or doxxed anyone" instead of addressing or reconsidering the hurtful things they've markedly done or said in the past, even when provided with receipts. (I've seen this from both rwde and anti-rwde users, and no I will not name names)

D) People telling critics to shut up and stop watching, not considering that many critics do like the show and that's why they like talking about it, or why certain aspects disappointed them, or why they enjoy coming up with ideas for ways it could've gone they'd have liked to see! People say "we welcome criticism if it's respectful!" and on paper that's great! But in practice I've seen many (not all) of those same people jump to conclusions and insult/mock very respectfully-worded critique. It makes it hard to say anything without being assumed to be part of the htdm.

Even little things like "I wish Ruby's reaction to Yang falling had gotten more focus" get inflammatory comments/asks like "Why do you have to shit on Bumbleby? Actually, don't answer that. I know why. You're a sexist fucking lesbophobe and you probably stan Adam, go die abuse apologist" (that one was mine, despite saying IN THE POST that I liked Blake's reaction and ship Bumbleby)

And when it is addressing a particular qualm someone expressed, it's very, very often just people jumping to impose their headcanons to explain it away and enforcing them as canon, defending CRWBY as though it were an assault (again, not referring to the people who ARE harassing CRWBY, this is about those seeking genuine discussion), and calling OP names/telling them to kill themselves if they "can't see how obvious it is that ___."

To critics, fans, and all who overlap (and tbh just people in general):

If there's a pattern of shittiness in a group, by all means call it out as a prevalent issue! Or vent about your experiences! Try to avoid generalization words like "all" and "every" because they leave little room for change or understanding, and communicate a lack of desire to listen/cooperate, which keeps us from being able to tackle the issue. If there's a point someone makes you'd like to dispute, do so respectfully and engage in open conversation! Even if it's an opinion! It's fun to say "I actually liked ___ because ___" or "interesting, I interpreted it as ___" and spark a conversation. Try to avoid words like "obviously," the intent to prove an opinion "objectively correct," or insulting the person's intelligence (i.e. calling fans braindead/ignorant/simps, calling critics oblivious/bad-faith/bigots), because it shuts down discussion before it can begin.

I've just realized this has gotten really long and tangential, so I'll leave it at that. I don't have a perfect conclusion or an easy summary. It's a complicated topic. To anyone still here, thank you for reading this. I can only hope it doesn't come off too preachy, but I'm bad at conveying tone, so just know I mean it constructively and optimistically <3

[PS: to the person who sent me an anon saying my statement that not all critics have all the same opinions or beliefs is "just like saying 'not all men'" -- I want you to think about that for a minute. Actually, make that an hour. I want an essay on my desk tomorrow explaining why those are not at all the same thing.]

#again thanks for the ask anon #rwby crit #fndm crit #rwde #anti rwde #yes I'm using the two word tag so ppl who have the one word version blacklisted won't think this is anti-rwde #and can actually read it :P #long post #sorry #I'd make a tl;dr but tbh summing it up is hard #and whenever I make a tl;dr I get responses from ppl who clearly didn't read the post saying stuff I addressed in the post #I'm adhd I'm not good at being concise #quinpost #quinanswer #as you may have noticed...#I had some fun with the colors :P #hope it helps this come across with a lighter/more constructive tone #would this be... anti-anti-rwde? XD ignore that it's a passing amusing thought #watch me still get an ask telling me I shouldn't defend harassment or pretend rwde is full of kindness #hopefully not tho <3 #I have hope #btw @ my mutuals this isn't a vaguepost @ you jsyk #none of y'all are the people I said I wouldn't name

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