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zalrb · 1 year

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Were you on anybody’s side in the Brucas “I wanted to you fight for me” scene?

Both and neither. The thing about it is, that whole fight is a common argument or dilemma even if it's in different iterations, which was partly why when I did the rewatch I also paralleled it with Jackie and Hyde, like the whole "you should just know"

but even the whole, I wanted you to fight for me is a common fight

it's a sentiment that's even in, like, The Parent Trap

and I have spoken to guy friends where they tell me about an argument and they're confused about their girlfriend's or ex's reactions and I've just looked at them and been like yeah, she wanted you to work a little harder, try a little harder, go after her etc. and they've always been like WhY DiDn'T ShE sAy AnYtHinG? and i've been like

so even though I have the same reaction to Lucas in the situation, the fact that he was like well I'm just doing what you asked doesn't condemn him for me as a specifically Lucas-doesn't-know-Brooke problem, I think it's very teenage boy and he also learns from it. In The Wind That Blew My Heart Away, he follows her into a storm.

He doesn't let her just walk away, he does exactly what Brooke wanted him to do in 3x05, he tells her how much he wants to be with her

and he means it.

Which is ... I remember looking up Leyton scenes and I came across a comment on the whole prom dress clip where Lucas goes back to Peyton to apologize for seeing Brooke before her and a commenter was like this is how you know he loves Peyton because he never cared if Brooke was upset, he just let her go and didn't follow up and I rolled my eyes.

Not to mention, he's only doing the whole Rachel thing because he is actually doing to Brooke what Brooke is doing to him, i.e. he's trying to get her to see that she doesn't actually want him to date other girls

it just goes disastrously because Rachel is Rachel

and like always, Lucas is out of his depth

and all he had to say was I'm only with her to make you jealous and again the fact that he didn't know that just makes me go

With Brooke, I understand why she tested him, I understand her reaction to him not getting what she wanted, he cheated on her with her best friend and more than that when they were together, he made her feel special, he made her feel wanted, her made her feel like a person who was worthy to get to know and then he betrayed her with Peyton, that will hurt deeply. As a teenager, while I wasn't in the exact same position obviously, I do remember doing things like testing loyalties so I get it, at the same time she didn't communicate with him and lack of communication is going to cause friction. Plus, Lucas didn't ask Rachel to be in his car, he had proven that he doesn't just want to be with Brooke for sex

she pushed him to Rachel, which she admits

he had been fighting for her, he had been saying you want me with other people but I just want you

which is why she says "I wanted the Lucas Scott from the beach that night" so while I completely understand where she's coming from and while I think her needing to know if Lucas is serious about her is reasonable, her reaction to the situation was unfair but I also don't fault her for it.

So, like I said, neither and both.

#brucas #brooke x lucas #lucas x brooke #oth #brooke davis #lucas scott #one tree hill

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roddyretrograde · 3 years

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i’m like ten years behind, but my anger over peyton ending up with lucas is reigniting lately. rewatching one tree hill as an adult, all i can see is lucas playing any girl that he can get to pay attention to him. the only one he was really upfront too always was anna - but that was in his best moments in season 2. leyton in s3 and 4 was so damn forced, and i truly believe that it was due to the break-up of chad + sophia. which sucks because it came at the expense of peyton’s character. she becomes this lucas-pod-person who’s life revolves around him in a way that isn’t reciprocated. and peyton’s heartbreak and longing for jake, a true love, is just erased in seconds to whiplash over to luke.

not to mention i get angry over the fact that brooke is so obviously hurting at the end of s3, asks lucas to do her a favour and stay away from peyton and he just straight up ignores her and plays peyton by giving her inappropriate compliments to tag her along when he insists he doesn’t like her like that. then there’s the episode that is centred around keith showing lucas how he’s basically the hero of literally everyone’s life and takes away the other character’s own ability to make decisions. like it’s lucas that puts naley back together after haley’s tour? it’s lucas that gives brooke her own fucking identity? lucas that basically controls the outcome of every arc? it just annoys me how male-centric the writing is in the show and it’s so much more obvious as an adult, though i remember being just as pissy about it the first time i watched.

ANYWAYS, that is my rant.

#show: one tree hill #taylor's unpopular opinions #anti-lucas scott #anti-leyton

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andsmile · 4 years

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I agree that this whole situation is different from One Tree Hill /Brucas /Leyton not the cheating part obviously because cheating is cheating. What Im trying to say Lucas cheating on Brooke with her best friend Peyton happened in season 1 while they him and Brooke were a relatively new couple (OTH s3 different story). Still no excuse to cheat but there's a huge difference from the two shows writers. It's a little too late for RD to do this cheating story in s4.

Welcome to my OTH ted talk, and I care a lot about OTH (it’s my favorite show), so it pains me when people make this comparison. I am a Brooke/Lucas shipper but I have watched OTH a thousand times (and I was watching in 2005 while it was airing, before endgames were set on stone) and I think I have some property to talk about this lol.

So, the thing with OTH is: first of all, it’s character-driven, not plot-driven like Riverdale, which means the plot stems from the build-up of characters and relationships. Everything a character says or does has consequences and continuity. Riverdale, as we all know, is not that show.

The fundamental part - the build-up of the love triangle - is completely different. I’m talking about s1 here, btw. What happens after is another story.

Lucas starts OTH in love with Peyton since he was a kid. There are about 8 episodes of a slow, careful build-up to Leyton’s ship with some ICONIC moments like “your art matters, it’s what got me here” (that are brought up throughout the entire show). Lucas loved Peyton but he didn’t really know Peyton, however, they get to know each other and it only affirms his feelings. She has a complicated life and he sees through a lot, and she opens up to him like she hadn’t to anyone (but Brooke). So, Lucas and Peyton hook up and the feelings are there for both of them, but Peyton gets scared and Lucas gets hurt.

Brooke is at first a rebound therapy to Lucas. We all know it! Me, a Brucas shipper through and through, I KNOW she was at first. He likes her, but he’s not in love with her like he is with Peyton, and the audience knows it. We’re all expecting the moment Peyton will give into her feelings and drag Lucas back with her.

That’s the brilliance of how OTH played this triangle though: when the cheating happens, you’re holding your breath. You’ve learned how to cheer for Leyton but you’re also very much in love with Brooke too and you see how much the three of them have their own thing going on, so it’s HARD to see it. It’s hard to watch it. That’s what’s gut-wrenching (not this BA mess).

Brooke and Peyton have been friends for years and years, to see Peyton throwing that away is HEARTBREAKING, and we get to actually SEE all of it. We see how much Lucas KNOWS he’s screwing up, we see how much Peyton feels guilty, how HARD it is for them to hide their feelings and not hurt Brooke. They have a whole affair behind Brooke’s back but they suffer through every step of the way.

Ultimately, when Brooke finds out, Lucas and Peyton have all the chance of being together but they both feel SO SHITTY for how they acted and what they did to Brooke, who was nothing but kind and true to them, that they decide NOT to be together. When this cathartic thing happens, their characters grow: the hurt Brooke goes through has her no longer feeling inferior to him. Good guy Lucas realizes he’s actually not such a good guy and that he should do better. Emotional problematic Peyton realizes she needs to be selfless.

So, the big difference between what’s going on in Riverdale now, is:

1) Archie and Veronica have had ups and downs but they’ve been dating for years now. It’s not a phase or something that happened as a rebound.

2) It’s not a triangle: Jughead exists. Betty is also dating him (continuously!) for years now. In fact, Betty and Jughead happening had the same cathartic feeling: character growth. Characters going forward instead of backwards. Growth!

3) Even if BA do go on with their cheating plot, it’s not the same as BLP, because LP had one thing that BA doesn’t: BUILD UP. Who saw this shit coming if it wasn’t for spoilers and the annoying amounts of BA promotion? The casual viewer must be completely confused right now. They’ll see those flashbacks that happened 3 years ago and be like: “wait, what?” Of course, some BA shippers will say it’s always been them etc, but whoever really watches this show knows that this makes absolutely no sense. BLP made A LOT OF SENSE. LP had FEELINGS for each other. BL had not been dating for long. BL started as a rebound. You were EXPECTING it to happen. It was heartbreaking, but no one said “oh, what the actual fuck” when it happened. Everyone went “oh, fuck”.

4) After the cheating Leyton spent 2 entire seasons as friends before they even thought about jumping back into that ship. And as much as I LOVE Brucas and will ship them to the rest of my life, it’s undeniable that Leyton had substantial content during those seasons. Again, WRITING. BUILD UP!

5) It’s not a love triangle! I repeat, it’s not a triangle! BLP was a love triangle, but this isn’t. This is about friendships on top of it all. The Core 4 is a character on its own, in Riverdale. The craziest plots only “worked” so far because of how strong the Core 4 are. There is no Bughead without Varchie, Beronica without Jarchie, B/rchie without J/ronica (not meaning ships). Breaking up the Core 4 is indeed the most powerful thing that can happen to this show. Even if you want it to be JAB or BAV, it CAN’T be. Veronica and Jughead are equally important in this (as much as the writers don’t give Ronnie too much to do). The whole foundation for a plot-driven show is ruined.

6) Lucas ending up with Peyton made sense. If Lucas ended up with Brooke, it would make sense. If Brooke and Peyton said fuck Lucas, it would make sense. What won’t make sense? BA ending up together (unless they go completely rogue and have JV end up together too) because Beronica can’t walk back from that and Jarchie can’t walk back from that. The friendship between Bughead can’t walk back from that. The Core 4 either ends this show as a Core 4, or it ends as nothing. And without the Core 4, this show has no foundation for its crazy plots.

OOF. Sorry if I wrote too much. I can write even more! lol

#re: riverdale #re: one tree hill #rd negativity #anon #reply

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letyourcolors · 4 years

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Analyzing Leyton in Season 1 (this is a rant, btw)

First of all, I’d just like to point out that I love Peyton, and Lucas was my favorite male character for the first three seasons. That being said, I hate Leyton and this post is not dedicated to their shippers (feel free to read it if you want, I don’t mean to disrespect anyone, I just think you’re not gonna like it lol). Also I do like Brucas but I’m not standing on the ‘they should’ve been endgame’ team, I could’ve easily accepted them not being together anymore (specially because I fully respect Sophia’s position to not wanna do those kinds of scenes with Chad anymore) - if the writers hadn’t done such a terrible job telling us ‘Leyton’ was the Real Thing.

On this post, I’ll discuss Leyton’s construction during the first season of One Tree Hill and I intend to do future posts with the other seasons as well. If you want to check out the next ones, follow the ‘anti leyton analysis’ tag (or just follow me lol I promise you I’m very nice).

Season 1

Okay so, for starters, I’ll just point out that I wasn’t actively anti-Leyton at the beginning of the show, I just didn’t mind them. They did have some cute moments together and I could understand their dynamic, it was belieavable.

(Credit: x)

I also specifically enjoy their bickering, like how when Lucas flirts with Peyton and she cuts him off by being mean (which is sort of her way of flirting back) and the opposite happens as well.

The reason why I didn’t really care for them is because I never saw anything really meaningful happening there. Their interest is nothing more than platonic. Lucas likes the idea of Peyton since he never even talked to her before; Peyton on the other hand is getting out of an abusive relationship and is just kind of intrigued by this guy who seems very different than her current boyfriend, who also happens to be Lucas’ brother (and rival). Their angst only exists because of that specific circumstance.

When there is finally nothing standing in their way and they can just be together, without the teasing, this happens:

(Credit: x)

Peyton has a change of heart only after Lucas is dating Brooke, which obviously hightens her feelings because now it’s forbidden again. To me, personally, that is not a sign of love or romanticism. That is a sign of having your ego hurt - and I don’t mean to shame Peyton, I’m only pointing out the most common human behavior ever. Feeling a little something for someone and having it a million times stronger after you can’t have them is something we’ve all been through and it doesn’t necessarily prove we have a deep connection to that person. So of course there is tension when they talk, in the first episodes she’s with Nathan and later they’re cheating on Brooke. Leyton’s angst is always a result of someone else standing in their way and never of the pure intensity of their feelings.

Even so, in theory, Leyton still seems better than Brucas. I mean, if you only heard the story, you would definitely not be a Brucas shipper because Lucas’ feelings for her apparently do not compare to what he feels for Peyton (even if it’s based on his own idealized perception of her and not on who she actually is, since they barely know each other but whatever). As a matter of fact, he gets together with Brooke right after Peyton dumps him, and that’s not exactly the best place to start off with someone.

The thing is, and that is why I already leaned towards Brucas, they have way better chemistry.

Leyton just always seems off-sync to me. For example, in 1x07, this is Peyton inviting Lucas to Nathan’s party. It’s supposedly a flirty moment and yet their faces:

(You can see the gifs here)

tbh I genuinely thought Peyton had way more chemistry with Haley (and with a lot of female characters for that matter, I didn’t get my hopes up because this show is really straight but Peyton had a very strong gay vibe):

While this is Brooke and Lucas interacting later on that same episode. Brooke is actively hitting on him and he is trying to reject her to go talk to Peyton (but ARE YOU REALLY, Lucas? I mean...

Anyway.

Now to the kisses. Lucas and Peyton’s first kiss is just very, very uncomfortable, both narratively (she only kisses him in order to piss off Brooke, which is pretty lame) and visually (just LOOK AT THAT).

I can actually feel a little pain watching this because she pushed his head with such rudeness and it doesn’t even seem like he’s enjoying it, it’s not like ‘wait what- wooooww, I like this’, looks like he’s trying to get away from that, he even pushes his arms back.

But okay, maybe that’s not the best example. Let’s get a moment where there was reciprocity.

I mean it’s fine.

As opposed to when Lucas and Brooke kiss:

(On the gifset above there are more of their kisses in season 1 which are all incredibly beautiful)

At their first kiss they are so consumed by each other’s eyes we feel like they’ll start ripping off their clothes right there. And then at the pool kiss, they both just look genuinely happy and that is another point that distinguishes Leyton and Brucas so much for me: Brucas just seems very lighter and easy-going, they always look like they’re having a good time together. We also got to see them be a couple and spend quality time together and just enjoy each other’s company.

While Leyton for me was rooted in guilt, tension and awkwardness, we barely never see them just hanging out or having cute moments.

And finally, another point that I will explore better in my seasons 2 and 3 analysis, how could anyone care about Leyton when we had THIS:

Even though the show didn’t focus on Jeyton that much I really like the fact that they’re a slowburn and that their relationship was just rooted in how much they liked being together. Peyton babysitted Jenny just because she wanted to and Jake found comfort in her while he was struggling with being a teenage single parent and later with Nikki trying to steal his daughter from him. Here we have better angsty because it’s not that the characters are playing games and refusing to be together out of pride, it’s not that another love interest gets in the way, and to me it doesn’t feel like it’s about their ego, they simply get more and more attached to each other and enjoy the time they spend together and actually start off as friends which I think is really beautiful.

This is what I have to say about Season 1. Even though I already didn’t ship Leyton at that point (and thought both Jeyton and Brucas had better potential), I could still see that it made sense for the show to place them together on Season 2 and it wouldn’t bother me that much. But then... (Wait for my season 2 analysis)

#anti leyton analysis #anti leyton #one tree hill #oth #brucas #brooke x lucas #jake x peyton #jeyton #s1 #rant #leyton x brucas #my texts #oth spoilers

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behindthefacesofoth-blog · 7 years

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Karen Roe

“Tree Hill’s mother”

Who would anyone be in Tree Hill without Karen? She’s brave, she’s smart, she’s insightful, and she’s always willing to help others in need, especially Lucas and his friends. What makes Karen so special is the way she truly cares for others and uses her personal experiences to make a better life for everyone. Try to think of a scene (besides when Lucas moves out and lies to her because she obviously had the right to be upset) where you thought, “Wow, Karen, that was selfish.” Pretty tough right? We constantly see Karen as a stronghold in the lives of the kids, especially when their own parents aren’t there for them. Karen is gentle with the kids, but will never shy away from telling them exactly what they need to hear, even if they don’t want to hear it. Let’s take a look at the impact Karen has on just a few of the characters in Tree Hill...

Haley. From the beginning, we see that Karen and Haley have a special bond. Not only is Karen Haley’s best friend’s mother, but she is also a second mother to Haley. The way the two interact would make it seem as if they were actually related because of how real and open they are with each other. To Haley, Karen is definitely a listener and an advice giver. Whether it be with school trouble, marital trouble, or money problems, Haley looks to Karen for guidance, and Karen is always there to comfort her. Nothing Haley asks of Karen is ever too much for her, and Karen handles every situation with grace. The grace and love Karen shows to Haley always translates through to how Haley reacts to a situation, making their relationship so special. Even long after Karen has left Tree Hill, the two remain in contact and remain close, further building on the ‘mother-daughter’ bond they seem to share.

Brooke. There is no doubt that Karen is especially important to Brooke and her growth. In the moments where Brooke needs a mother the most, Karen is there for her. We see this especially when Karen invites Brooke to move into their home. Before moving in with Karen, Brooke has always known a life with complete freedom, a credit card, and no responsibility for her actions or to her family. Karen changes Brooke’s attitude a great deal while they live together just by being there for her and caring about her well-being. Karen is the flame that starts a fire in Brooke’s heart and mind which carries through the rest of the series. Karen teaches Brooke responsibility for herself and in a family, and she shows her a mother’s love she has never experienced before. Karen was the one steady thing in Brooke’s life for some time, and that alone made so much difference for Brooke and how she acted.

Deb. When Deb and Karen meet, things don’t start on a flawless note, as Karen is aware of the fact that Deb is a lot of the reason why Dan treated her and Lucas so poorly. Once Karen gets to know Deb, she sees hurt and pain in her that Dan has caused, and the two bond. Karen is the friend Deb needs in times of trouble and she plays a large role in making Deb feel she is worth something. Karen is a major force in getting Deb help when she has a drug problem, and gives her one too many chances to prove herself after rehab. Karen continues to believe in Deb even when many others have given up, and it gives Deb a reason to want to get better, even though ultimately, the relationship between the two does not end well. Even if their friendship isn’t lifelong, Karen has an impact on Deb, especially in tough times. She is strong for Deb, and wants only the best for her.

Because of how Karen treats those she cares about, when she herself goes through the gut-wrenching pain of Keith’s death, those people stand up for her and reciprocate the love and care she has shown to them. This is where we see just how much Karen means to so many people. They go out of their way to show their concern for Karen just as she did for them, and ultimately, carry what she has taught them for the rest of the series. While Karen might have gone off to travel the world, her legacy and love for Tree Hill and the people living there remains strong in those who stick around.

#one tree hill #karen roe #lucas scott #haley james scott #brooke davis #deb scott #keith scott #strong #frienship #mother #love #wilmington #northcarolina #care #selfless

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zalrb · 4 years

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i'm sorry if you've already explained it but i didn't find anything, i was wondering why you hate/dislike peyton from one tree hill? i'm currently watching the show for the first time and i really love her and brooke, they're my favorite characters and even though their friendship is a little complicated i think brooke has hurt peyton just as much as peyton hurt brooke

I do have posts but I also can’t seem to find them, lol. Part of it is just visceral, it’s just a dislike of a character, I simply don’t like Peyton because I don’t and find her angst and her chip-on-shoulder despite stemming from not having a mother to be executed in a really obnoxious way that I would just watch Peyton and be like I get it, you’re going through shit, OK fine. And part of is because I felt like she was condescending toward Brooke, like when her birth mother judges Brooke for sleeping around, Peyton tries to explain it and then kind of just goes welp, you’re right, and in season one, she low-key makes fun of Brooke with Haley, obviously there’s the Lucas situation and when she and Brooke fall out because of it, from what I remember, Peyton doesn’t really try that hard to make amends and is like but I can still be friends with you, Lucas, and then her even telling Brooke in season 3 that she still had feelings for him was like why, to what end, why would that be something she needed to know and I just didn’t believe their friendship for the most part, there are two instances where I really felt like they were friends and both times she was with Jake and Lucas wasn’t a factor but there always seems to be this constant exasperation with Brooke that irritated me because it didn’t feel like it was in good fun, like if I watch Stiles and Scott for instance in Teen Wolf, Stiles has this constant exasperation with Scott but I never feel like Stiles is judging Scott, it’s all in good fun and it’s funny. And by the time season 4 rolled around and they had Brooke sleep with Nathan, I 100% believe they inserted that to level the playing field with Brooke and Peyton since this would’ve been the second time she put Lucas over their friendship.

I absolutely preferred Brooke’s relationship with Haley, which I do break down

https://zalrb.tumblr.com/post/186195267005/how-do-you-tell-someone-has-platonic-chemistry

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