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#this whole scenario (which the master has scripted! entirely!) is him going 'SEE. I KNOW YOU.'

mst3kproject · 4 years

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Beast from Haunted Cave

I’ve actually received a couple of requests for movies to review, and I am looking into them. I just have a few others I want to get through first… like this one.

Beast from Haunted Cave begins with a familiar tune – over the credits we hear the same jumpy ‘suspense’ music that opened both Night of the Blood Beast and Attack of the Giant Leeches. It seems to have been a favourite of Gene Corman (Roger’s brother), who produced all three movies. The writer, furthermore, was Charles B. Griffith, who did the same job for half a dozen MST3K movies, including It Conquered the World, Gunslinger, and Wizards of the Lost Kingdom II. Finally, Beast from Haunted Cave has the strange distinction of being the only movie I’ve ever seen that thanks ‘the people of South Dakota’.

A master criminal and his drunk, stupid henchmen (one of whom is a drunk, stupid henchwoman) have decided to rob a mining operation. In the process they annoy some kind of giant bug monster that was living in the mine, and it stalks them and their guide through the wintery mountains until they reach a cabin where they hole up to wait out a blizzard. Between the monster lurking outside and the fact that the gang are all getting fed up being stuck indoors and starting to hate each other (a familiar scenario in 2020), it’s a good bet that no more than two of them are getting out alive. Probably the henchwoman and the guide, since they were kissing earlier.

Beast from Haunted Cave is a typically cheap Corman production. The familiar music persists through the entire film, and gives the same impression it did in Blood Beast – the soundtrack people were given a set of pre-existing pieces and did what they could with them. A terrible winter storm is represented by howling wind noises, but it never actually snows. The monster is dreadful. The webs draped over everything demonstrate that it’s a spider, but all we actually see is a featureless head and a couple of flailing arms that resemble nothing so much as one of those inflatable tube men at a used car lot. When all we’re seeing is one leg reaching out to grab people it’s not awful, but as soon as we get a good look at the whole creature it’s clear that this is some kind of repurposed Hallowe’en decoration. The gold bricks the thieves came to steal are just… well, bricks painted gold. The paint isn’t even shiny.

Outside of that, however, the movie isn’t really that bad. Everybody on the crew seems to have known what they were doing, and did their best to work within their meagre budget. The photography is surprisingly competent. The lighting rarely qualifies as atmospheric but there’s always enough of it – even in scenes set at night or in a dark cave, I never found myself squinting and wondering what’s going on. The snowy landscapes are shot on location and look suitably hostile (although they could often only do one take, since after that the snow wouldn’t look pristine anymore). You can see the actors’ breath, which gives a visceral sense of the cold. The writing is mostly just serviceable but every so often there’s a little gem tucked within it.

The two places where this shows best are in the character of Marty and in the relationship between the mastermind, Alex, and the henchwoman, Gypsy. Marty is a drunken buffoon but there’s more to him than that. Early in the film he invites a cocktail waitress from the ski lodge, Natalie, to make out in a cave with him. They disturb the monster, and Marty escapes but leaves Natalie behind. For the rest of the film, even as he continues to be a drunken buffoon, it’s clearly eating him up that he abandoned this woman. There’s an ambiguous moment when he finds Natalie’s still-living body webbed to a tree in the middle of the woods – perhaps it really happened, or maybe he’s having a nightmare.

Gypsy has clearly been working for Alex for some time, as secretary, girlfriend, and as a way of distracting the targets of his robberies. She’s an alcoholic sad sack who looks ten years older than her stated age of twenty-six, and clearly regrets her self-destructive life. She cannot leave, however, because Alex is controlling and violent, and because she wouldn’t know what she wants or who she is without him. When he beats her up for kissing Gil the guide, she later says Alex had a perfect right to slap me. At the same time, the film hints of happier times between the two in a running gag, never explained, where Alex and Gypsy call each other ‘Charles’. This seems to have once been an endearment, but is now a passive-aggressive insult.

One character whom I wish had done more is Gil’s housekeeper, Small Dove. She rarely speaks, but she carries an axe and spends a lot of time judgmentally watching the stupid white people. She could have been this movie’s Eulabelle, but she ends up getting eaten by the monster without ever doing anything badass. Shame.

Let us now return to a familiar question: who is the main character in this movie?

I guess Gil is the ‘hero’. He’s the hunky male lead, who gets the girl at the end. He never does much to further the plot, though, except for urging Gypsy to leave Alex and figure out how to lead her own life. Although she seems romantically interested in him, Gil may not return the sentiment – it’s hard to say. He doesn’t kill the monster, Marty actually does that by setting it on fire with a flare gun. Gil is just sort of there, a cardboard cut-out in the ‘handsome guy’ box all movies must have.

Gypsy has a much better claim on the protagonist role. The script takes much more interest in her situation than in anybody else’s, and we are encouraged to sympathize with her feeling lost and trapped. She survives at the end to run off with Gil, though we’re not given any indication of what they’ll do now or whether the budding relationship between them will last. Like so many other movies of its era, Beast from Haunted Cave has no denouement. We simply fade to black from the monster on fire (another thing they could only do once, since they actually burned the prop).

Gil is the one who describes the cave as ‘haunted’, but this never has anything to do with the story. There is not even a hint of a ghost or even a ghost story connected with the cave. I assume the word is in the title mostly because Beast from Cave sounds like a dinosaurs-and-cavemen movie made by the cavemen, and having put it there, Griffith felt he had to justify it with a line of dialogue.

The character who had the most potential to go through an arc is actually the antagonist, Alex. He’s been pulling heists like this for years, and is proud of his success. He has no reason to think this job will be any different, and yet as the movie progresses, Alex has to watch his plans fall apart all around him. One of his henchmen is going mad from terror and guilt. The other, Byron (who you can tell apart from Marty because Byron is The One In The Stupid Hat), is developing a crush on Small Dove and thinking about getting out of crime and settling down. Gypsy is kissing Gil right in front of him, and Alex worries what she might have told him about the real purpose of the ski trip. Then there’s the storm, which means the plane that was supposed to take them to Canada can’t get to them, and the lurking monster. At the end of the film, Alex is still trying to regain control of the situation, even as the monster closes in on him.

Criminals on the run getting menaced by a monster seems to be a surprisingly common plot for a movie. Voodoo Woman and Killer Fish were both variants on the theme. I’m guessing this serves two purposes within the plot: the first is that it means we’re not too sad when the main characters die, since they were already bad people. The second is what I think Beast from Haunted Cave was going for – it means that the characters cannot ask for help with their situation. The group know, from hearing it on the radio, that they’re being hunted by the authorities. If they were to call for help, whoever came to the rescue would find the gold bars in their bags, and they’d go straight to prison.

This idea is mostly implied. Nobody ever actually suggests calling for help, or even trying to contact the people who were gonna be flying their getaway plane. It also seems that they had no contingency plan for bad weather, which makes the whole operation look very poorly-planned.

One thing I did find myself thinking about is that the radio news mentions the police looking into the theft, but we never actually see the cops investigating. This applies to the other movies I mentioned above, as well… in Voodoo Woman we’re in an area that doesn’t seem to have much by way of police, but in Killer Fish, too, law enforcement is entirely absent. This is a good choice on the part of the writers and directors, because it allows us to focus on the monster plot. If they were to include detectives, that would unnecessarily complicate things and require a resolution of its own.

Then again, if they had two resolutions, they might have had to include some ‘wind-down’ time. I don’t like it when movies end abruptly after the monster dies, because it tends to leave dangling subplots. Gil and Gypsy are still in the middle of nowhere, and must now shelter in the cave until the storm ends. Are they going to be okay? Last time we saw Small Dove she was weakened from blood loss but not yet quite dead. Can they save her? Will Gil and Gypsy stay together, or will he encourage her to go find herself? So there’s another lesson for aspiring film-makers: don’t end your movie until the story’s actually over.

#mst3k #reviews #episodes that never were #beast from haunted cave #50s

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smokeybrandreviews · 3 years

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Tomorrow Should Have Died

So i was planning on reviewing The Tomorrow War because it’s a new film and i like new films i can watch without having to brave the plague. I saw a preview for this thing a while back and had real low expectations for it, figured it’d be dumb fun like Independence Day. Imagine my abject horror when it turned out to be so much worse. Okay, first things first, the good stuff. Chris Pratt is good and so is J.K. Simmons. Betty Gilpin and Yvonne Strahovski work miracles with what little they have. The sound design is exceptional, probably the best thing about this sh*t flick, and the actual effects are on point. The problem with the movie is the script. It’s f*cking terrible. Oh my god, so much dumb! Here’s a list of sh*t that made me irrationally angry, in order of plot progression.

Eleven minutes in and i hate it. How are you losing a war to anything if you have mastered the ability to traverse space-time? How the f*ck is your technology so advanced, that you have found a way to exceed the light speed limit and literally break physics, but lose to a bunch of rabid, interstellar, komodo dragons? This is the dumbest f*cking contradiction I have seen all year and i am offended that whoever decided to make this film, is asking this of their audience. Sh*t is patently absurd. These f*cking things don't even have written language, man, and you really expect me to believe they have pushed a human race that has harnessed the power of time, to the brink of extinction?

Eleven minutes, bro. Eleven f*cking minutes.

Seriously, you can create a time machine, you should conceivably have the ability to harness gravity or one of the other fundamental interactions. Why the f*ck haven't you designed a miniaturized rail gun that uses modern tech or materials to build? You have worked out the science in the future, go back to the past and build miniature or handheld doomsday devices for use in the field. Why isn’t everyone running around with f*cking Megatron fusion cannons on their arms? Why the f*ck am i fighting aliens with ARs and Glocks?? The fact that there is an active time machine built from tech on hand from thirty years into the future, means cats could have spent their time building actual weapons to kill these f*cking things instead of betting the literal human race on a time displaced draft. This movie is dumb as rocks.

The way they describe how their time travel works is dumb. I mean, it isn’t, but i can guarantee this sh*t is going to be a problem later. I can feel it in my bones. They are definitely going to contradict this sh*t because multiverse theory is the only way to make movie time travel work and they are trying their damnedest to not do that.

This f*cking thing is over two hours long and the first drags. I hate when cats attempt to develop characters and they just fail at it. I'm sitting here trying to figure out why I should care about any of these people and i still don't have an answer after half the goddamn movie is over. Like, why should i care about Chris Pratt? He’s the main character and the writing has done nothing to endear him to the audience in a whole ass hour.

Also, the reason he’s so mad at his dad is stupid. Dude did right by his kid by bailing because he would have been a terrible father. Pratt’s character would have known that as a father himself. He didn’t have to like it and, of course there’s animosity there, but you’re an adult. Your dad knew he was lousy. He did you a favor by walking out. It wasn’t like he didn’t help support you or make sure you went without. As far as i can tell, dude was there in every way by physically. Because he couldn’t. Because he was f*cking shell-shocked from fighting in Vietnam. Where they raped innocent women and set babies on fire. Holy sh*t, this cat is an unlikable protagonist after this one scene. Which brings me to my next thing...

Pratt f*cking abandons his family?? Word? After that entire scene with his dad and the very obvious trauma he has suffered, he turns around and abandons his own kid because he lost his job?? Word? Like, for real? You expect me to believe that the Chris Pratt who cussed out his pops, was willing to go on the run from his future conscription, abandoned his own family because he lost a teaching job?? What the f*ck, movie? Do you want me to like this asshole or not? More than that, how the f*ck you mess up your character so bad in what i imagine is just five pages of actual script? Nothing we know about this character would ever even hint at him doing this to his family, to his daughter, so why the f*ck would he? Why the f*ck would you, as a write, believe we, as the audience, would just accept that sh*t as a forgone conclusion?

You got ropes on a Queen and you don't kill it? How the f*ck you make it that deep into the hive to even do-si-do the b*tch to the surface? We just watched these things tear through Miami to the point that they needed a whole ass bombardment just to survive and you not only go into their hive, their home, with no heavy ammo, but you somehow lasso a queen and drag her to the surface. Alive. If you can do all of that why not just drop a nuke down there and blow them the f*ck up? Why do you need a live Queen for your science? Shoot the b*tch, take the juice of her corpse, and end this sh*t! Why is all of this stupid recklessness necessary??

Okay. Okay... F*ck everything i just said, right? Why the f*k did you bring this Queen b*tch back to your base? You don’t have a different offsite lab to do this sh*t? You gotta bring her to your stronghold? Isn’t this a military operation? Why aren't their security protocols and sh*t in place to stop this stupidity? You don’t bring the enemy home. You take them to black sites for sh*t like this, not to the goddamn Pentagon!

All of a sudden, the aliens understand science? We spent this entire movie establishing that they are mindless beasts with teeth, eating the human race into extinction but now, because the plot demands it, the Queen one understands what the people are doing? That the green sh*t they made is plague that can murder them all? How the f*ck she even know what science is? They don’t even have language, dude! How the hell she know they made a death plague for her people?! F*ck it, whatever, bro. Next you're going to tell me she let them capture her just to get inside the lab or some sh*t because these rabid f*cking animals, who have demonstrated no military command abilities or even the barest of higher cognitive functions, are tactical geniuses.

Okay, so the Queen b*tch is a tactical genius. So, in the initial future drop, the team was murdered by a bunch of these things because they were sent to a lab where they were trying to make the death plague. Now, hat i am about to say is all assumption on my part because none of this, and i men NONE of it, is ever confirmed by the movie. So, they get to the lab and everyone is dead but the green per-plague is still there. That mean they had a Queen there. It’s established after this that Queens can call for backup and the Males will lemming their way to her. I deduce that’s how this lab got overrun; Queen got loose, called for her boys, and they ate everyone. That happened. That was the first thing we see in the future. This b*tch does the same f*cking thing on the home base lab so now the males are overrunning The Pentagon. You motherf*ckers knew this was a thing because it literally already happens. Why the f*ck would you do it again? AND it gets worse... Home base, The Pentagon, is the f*cking rig where they house the goddamn time machine! You brought a hostile enemy leader, still alive and coherent, to the heart of your resistance operation, to the core of your time travel operation, knowing that at any time this b*tch can scream and have your whole ass base overrun with teeth and poison darts? Look, if the future is this stupid, they deserve to die, okay?

At least they commit to multiverse theory, even if it contradicts the entirety of their already established time travel rules.

Okay. Okay... So they create this toxin to kill all the monster things and send it back in time to be mass produced Put that sh*t in bullets and send it back to the future or whatever. But, because of the aforementioned stupid, that plan is bunk. Time machine go kablooey. And now we are at the "all is lost" moment at the end of the second act." Solution to the problem in hand, no way to save the future because the only way back to the future was a casualty of idiocy. Right. So... just wait. F*cking just wait. You know when these assholes show up, you know how to kill them all, you even have a plague ready to be mass produced right now. You have thirty f*cking years to refine that formula, to make it cheaper to mass produced and develop variants just in case immunities start to crop up or something. There are people from the future, stuck in the past, because of the egregious future error. They have all of that intel and they are just alive. The second this dude got back to the past with that antidote, the future was saved. The war is over. Like, even if you don’t know where the ship is, you have a sure thing that will murder these white f*cks and three decades to produce, weaponize, and store that sh*t. The war is won. The Prime timeline is absolutely safe at this point. Because that's how time travel works. You have the nuclear option, right now, to averting the end of the human race, ready to be mass produced. Yo have the knowledge from the future on where these things will first appear. You still have all the future tech brought over from the beta timeline ripe for reverse engineering in order to improve the weapons of the present. There is no scenarios where we lose this war, the second Chris Pratt plops back into the present with that plague. None.

Why is everyone so dejected?? Why are there f*cking riots all over the world?? None of this makes sense. How can you assume the world ends and the war is lost just because the communication with that version of the past is cut? Wouldn’t you expect that sh*t? You just altered the entire timeline by sending Pratt back with the antidote. That future is effectively gone. How can you communicate with a place in space-time that doesn’t exist anymore? Hell, even if it’s because the time machine broke and everyone over there is dead, you have the f*cking antidote now! Multiverse theory, bud. The fact that those time displaced assholes didn’t disappear, means multiverse theory is real and you have the opportunity to Future Trunks this sh*t so why panic? Why are there no leaders n television assuring their people that this is a thing? Why are there no scientists publishing papers about how sh*t is going to be fine? Bro, I'm just so tired...

How these cats just fly into Russia on a big ass cargo plane and not get shot down? This is 2022. Putin still hates us. This sh*t would cause a World War.

So you find this ship and you don’t tell anyone where it is? You decide to just kill them all yourself? Motherf*cker, what happens if you die? Did you back up the enzyme formula somewhere or did you bring all of it with you on this stupid f*cking mission? Did you leave notes or even text your location to anyone in authority, just in case haphazard attempt goes sideways so someone else can make a more organized attempt? Or just drop a nuke on the site from orbit? If one asshole denied you funding for your mission, why didn’t you ask someone else? Why didn’t you ask f*cking Putin? Because governments are bloated down with bureaucracy? My dude, people from the future came back and interrupted the world cup to tell you that aliens are going to exterminate the human race in three decades. If you tell anyone in a position of power that you know where these little sh*ts are, they’re going to listen. Especially since everyone decided to riot because the future changed/we lost the time war/ the timeline imploded.

Why would a terrestrial saw work on an intergalactic star ship? That doesn't make any sense. This f*cking thing survived a crash landing into earth intact and a goddamn circular saw cuts it open? Fine, whatever. On to the next stupid thing.

Bro. Bro, they just blow the f*cking thing up. Motherf*cker spent the entire movie, time jumping form the past to to the future and back to the past, just to get this plague to kill them all, and a bunch of C4 just blows them all up while they sleep. Why the f*ck was everything even f*cking necessary? At this point, when the dude comes back with that claw the first time, the future is saved. Analysis on that one claw gave up the location of the hidden spaceship where these things had been in stasis for millennia. Which was blown up with C4. No plague needed. No goddamn time draft needed. No casualties needed after that first wave. The second that dude brought back that claw, it should have been under a forensic microscope so actual f*cking scientists could figure out what a high school kid id in a matter of minutes. I hate this movie so goddamn much.

I hated this goddamn movie so much. It’s f*cking boring and the dumbest thing I've seen all year and i watched Army of the Dead. It’s pretty and the performances are decent, but there is absolutely no substance to any of this sh*t. It wants to be Independence Day and Edge of Tomorrow and The Great Wall. all in one, while infusing time travel family drama but it’s so f*cking confused trying to juggle all of that, it drops the ball on the most important part; The script. This thing must read like a fever dream induced by peyote because, in execution, it’s a wet fart. This f*cking thing is all over the place with no regard for any insular universe logic. It contradicts itself from one scene to the next and it’s goddamn offensive. I’m sure there is someone saying that i am overthinking this sh*t and that it’s just supposed to be dumb popcorn fun. I get that. However, i can’t just turn my f*cking brain off and mindlessly drool over sh*t that insults my intelligence the way this movie does. It’s dumb as f*cking rocks, man, and i want those two hours of my life back!

#The Tomorrow War #Some ol' bullsh*t

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aboveallarescuer · 4 years

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Daenerys Targaryen in A Storm of Swords vs Game of Thrones - Episode 3.3: Walk of Punishment

In this series of posts, I intend to analyze precisely how the show writers downplayed or erased several key aspects of Daenerys Targaryen’s characterization, even when they had the books to help them write her as the compelling, intelligent, compassionate, frugal, open-minded and self-critical character that GRRM created.

I want to make it clear that these posts are not primarily meant to offer a better alternative to what the show writers gave us. I understand that they had many constraints (e.g. other storylines to handle, a limited amount of time to write the scripts, budget, actors who may have asked for a certain number of lines, etc) working against them. However, considering how disrespectful the show’s ending was to Daenerys Targaryen and how the book material that they left out makes it even more ludicrous to think that she will also become a villain in A Song of Ice and Fire, I believe that these reviews are more than warranted. They are meant to dissect everything about Dany’s characterization that was lost in translation, with a lot of book evidence to corroborate my statements.

Since these reviews will dissect scene by scene, I recommend taking a look at this post because I will use its sequence to order Dany’s scenes.

This post is relevant in case you want to know which chapters were adapted in which GoT episodes (however, I didn’t make the list myself, all the information comes from the GoT Wiki, so I can’t guarantee that it’s 100% reliable).

In general, I will call the Dany from the books “Dany” and the Dany from the TV series “show!Dany”.

Scene 3

BARRISTAN: The Walk of Punishment is a warning, Your Grace.

DAENERYS: To whom?

BARRISTAN: To any slave who contemplates doing whatever these slaves did.

In the books, the context in which we first see the Plaza of Punishment (yeah, the type of building was changed) is very different:

The Plaza of Pride with its great bronze harpy was too small to hold all the Unsullied she had bought. Instead they had been assembled in the Plaza of Punishment, fronting on Astapor’s main gate, so they might be marched directly from the city once Daenerys had taken them in hand. There were no bronze statues here; only a wooden platform where rebellious slaves were racked, and flayed, and hanged. “The Good Masters place them so they will be the first thing a new slave sees upon entering the city,” Missandei told her as they came to the plaza.

At first glimpse, Dany thought their skin was striped like the zorses of the Jogos Nhai. Then she rode her silver nearer and saw the raw red flesh beneath the crawling black stripes. Flies. Flies and maggots. The rebellious slaves had been peeled like a man might peel an apple, in a long curling strip. (ASOS Daenerys III)

As we can see:

In the books, Dany goes to the Plaza of Punishment because she's going to buy save too many Unsullied and the Plaza of Pride wouldn't fit them all. The names are very appropriate: Dany is going to undermine the pride of the slave masters (the absence of bronze statues of harpies reinforces that fact) by punishing them for what they did to the slaves (which feels like a sort of karmic payback, for she begins a successful anti-slavery rebellion in the very place where the slaves were punished for rebelling) and showing them that they are just as mortal and vulnerable as the people they were oppressing. In the show, all of this significance is lost because show!Dany goes to the Plaza Walk of Punishment before she even makes the deal.

In the books, the slaves are racked, flayed and hanged for disobeying their masters. In the show, they are whipped and then strapped to a cross until they die.

There is a reason why the place was changed from Plaza to Walk: the shooting location in Essaouira had a line of cannons that couldn't be moved, so they decided to build "cannon covers" with the crosses of the dying slaves.

I don't mind that the method of punishment itself was changed (from flaying to crucifixion) or even that the Plaza of Punishment was turned into the Walk of Punishment, only that the location was shown in the inappropriate moment. I can't see any reason why the Walk of Punishment could not have been where the deal was about to be finished only for show!Dany to rebel against the masters and free the Unsullied (like how it happened in the books in the Plaza of Punishment).

Another change in the context of the scene taking place in the Plaza/Walk of Punishment has to do with who is talking to Dany and what is the purpose of the scene. I will quote again both the show dialogue and (parts of) the book passage to emphasize my point:

BARRISTAN: The Walk of Punishment is a warning, Your Grace.

DAENERYS: To whom?

BARRISTAN: To any slave who contemplates doing whatever these slaves did.

There were no bronze statues here; only a wooden platform where rebellious slaves were racked, and flayed, and hanged. “The Good Masters place them so they will be the first thing a new slave sees upon entering the city,” Missandei told her as they came to the plaza.

[...] One man had an arm black with flies from fingers to elbow, and red and white beneath. Dany reined in beneath him. “What did this one do?”

“He raised a hand against his owner.” (ASOS Daenerys III)

In the books, Missandei (a former slave) explains to Dany why the Plaza of Punishment exists. That makes their interaction more powerful, since we're listening to someone who, at some point, likely felt the urge to run away only to see these slaves and realize that it would be more sensible to resign herself to the misery she was in. Also, Dany instinctively understands why the Plaza of Punishment exists before Missandei tells her ("a wooden platform where rebellious slaves were racked, and flayed, and hanged"). In the show, show!Barristan is the one who explains to show!Dany why the Walk of Punishment exists, which is less meaningful in comparison. Also, D&D have show!Dany ask him to whom the Walk is a warning, implying that she can't think of any ideas on her own and making this another case of her being dumbed down in comparison to her book counterpart.

In the books, one of the purposes of the scene is to call attention to the unfairness of these punishments - no person should be "racked, and flayed, and hanged", especially not for a reason as relatively trivial as "rais[ing] a hand against his owner". However, because the level of oppression and social inequality is so high in Astapor and Slaver's Bay as a whole, it's normal procedure to torture and kill someone for insubstantial motives. In the show, since show!Barristan was never a slave like Missandei was, he can't possibly know why they were punished ("doing whatever these slaves did"). Now, of course, one might argue that the scene still causes outrage because no one deserves to be subjected to that level of torture, but it's still quite a shame that the reason why the slave was punished was cut - not only that would have made the point even more explicit, that only happened because they erased the perspective of a former slave.

DAENERYS: Give me your water.

JORAH: Khaleesi, this man has been sentenced to death.

DAENERYS: Here, drink.

This series has a habit of framing acts of compassion and kindness as meaningless ones - as @turtle-paced reminded me, examples include show!Ned's trying to save show!Joffrey (how his attempt was framed in the show, in particular), Talisa's kindness to the Lannister squires who got murdered in S3, the old lady who tried to help show!Sansa in S5 only to get murdered by show!Ramsay and show!Doran's efforts to make peace. @secretlyatargaryen also called attention to how show!Meera was callously dispatched after multiple seasons helping show!Bran to go back home. I would also add how no one in Braavos was willing to help show!Arya after seeing her stomach wound (and then the one person who helps her is assassinated) or how show!Arya's attempts to save a child and her mother in "The Bells" led to naught.

This scene is another clear example that fits the pattern. Instead of creating a scenario in which show!Dany tries to give water to a dying slave only for him to refuse:

Why couldn’t the show writers have had Dany explaining what, in her perspective, makes her worthy of being considered a queen?

Or why couldn’t they have kept Dany’s anger at seeing Jorah talk about the Unsullied as if they were objects to be sold?

Or why couldn’t we have had Dany saying that a queen must listen to all, highborn and low?

All of these examples were entirely cut from the series, which is a shame because they signal that the books are ultimately validating Dany’s efforts to help the oppressed (while it is true that they don’t shy away from the negative ramifications at the same time, her attempts are no less justified and necessary). This scene doesn't convey the same message.

BARRISTAN: Leave this place, Your Grace. Leave tonight, I beg you.

JORAH: And what is she to do for soldiers?

BARRISTAN: We can find sellswords in Pentos and Myr.

JORAH: Is it "we" already, Ser Barristan? If you want to sit on the throne your ancestors built, you must win it. That will mean blood on your hands before the thing is done.

DAENERYS: The blood of my enemies, not the blood of innocents.

JORAH: How many wars have you fought in, Ser Barristan?

BARRISTAN: Three.

JORAH: Have you ever seen a war where innocents didn't die by the thousands? I was in King's Landing after the sack, khaleesi. You know what I saw? Butchery. Babies, children, old men. More women raped than you can count. There's a beast in every man and it stirs when you put a sword in his hand. But the Unsullied are not men. They do not rape. They do not put cities to the sword unless they're ordered to do so. If you buy them, the only men they'll kill are those you want dead.

DAENERYS: Do you disagree, Ser Barristan?

BARRISTAN: When your brother Rhaegar led his army into battle at the Trident, men died for him because they believed in him, because they loved him, not because they'd been bought at a slaver's auction. I fought beside the last dragon on that day, Your Grace. I bled beside him.

JORAH: Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, and Rhaegar died.

I'm quoting the entire exchange to highlight, again, how much the show overfocused on show!Jorah's opinions over show!Dany's or show!Barristan's.

Let's separate his arguments:

1) JORAH: And what is she to do for soldiers?

2) JORAH: Is it "we" already, Ser Barristan? If you want to sit on the throne your ancestors built, you must win it. That will mean blood on your hands before the thing is done.

3) JORAH: How many wars have you fought in, Ser Barristan? [...] Have you ever seen a war where innocents didn't die by the thousands? I was in King's Landing after the sack, khaleesi. You know what I saw? Butchery. Babies, children, old men. More women raped than you can count. There's a beast in every man and it stirs when you put a sword in his hand. But the Unsullied are not men. They do not rape. They do not put cities to the sword unless they're ordered to do so. If you buy them, the only men they'll kill are those you want dead.

4) JORAH: Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, and Rhaegar died.

Now let's separate show!Barristan's arguments:

1) BARRISTAN: Leave this place, Your Grace. Leave tonight, I beg you.

2) BARRISTAN: We can find sellswords in Pentos and Myr.

3) BARRISTAN: When your brother Rhaegar led his army into battle at the Trident, men died for him because they believed in him, because they loved him, not because they'd been bought at a slaver's auction. I fought beside the last dragon on that day, Your Grace. I bled beside him.

Finally, what does show!Dany have to say?

1) DAENERYS: The blood of my enemies, not the blood of innocents.

The protagonist of this storyline is also, sadly, the one who least expresses her opinions on the matter of buying the Unsullied or not. (She also asks for show!Barristan's opinion and asserts that she is the last dragon, but these are not arguments/thoughts that add to the discussion)

Before I examine each line (which I will do in a sec), I want to pay close attention to the direction (which, let's have in mind, was solely Benioff's). The camera barely focuses on show!Barristan's face while he makes his first two arguments above, making them seem like an afterthought:

But it always focuses on show!Jorah's face when he is talking:

And while the camera does focus on show!Dany's face when she reiterates the importance of sparing innocent lives:

It's also true that the show erased too many of her opinions/viewpoints (as I will show below).

In terms of screentime, show!Barristan's first two arguments receive 6 seconds. Show!Jorah's first two arguments receive 12 seconds. Show!Dany's sole argument receives 3 seconds. Show!Jorah's third argument receives 39 seconds. Show!Barristan's third argument (which is actually a line from Dany in the books) receives 18 seconds. Show!Jorah's fourth argument receives 6 seconds. Approximately, then, we have: 57 seconds for show!Jorah, 24 seconds for show!Barristan and 3 seconds for show!Dany.

Now I'm going through each of these characters' arguments.

1) JORAH: And what is she to do for soldiers?

The first point is actually one that Dany is shown onpage bringing up in the books:

“When I leave Astapor it must be with an army, Ser Jorah says.” (ASOS Daenerys II)

“Yet I must have some army,” Dany said. “The boy Joffrey will not give me the Iron Throne for asking politely.” (ASOS Daenerys II)

It isn't out of character for Jorah to make this argument - in fact, he does so in the previous chapter when he proposes that Dany changes course to Astapor. However, since they are adapting events from ASOS Daenerys II (when they are already in Astapor), it's another instance in which the show writers would rather have a supporting male character have his voice heard rather than Dany's.

Also, more importantly, Dany is not making this argument to justify slavery like show!Jorah is:

“Even those who bent their knees may yearn in their hearts for the return of the dragons.”

“May,” said Dany. That was such a slippery word, may. (ASOS Daenerys II)

“My brother visited Pentos, Myr, Braavos, near all the Free Cities. The magisters and archons fed him wine and promises, but his soul was starved to death. A man cannot sup from the beggar’s bowl all his life and stay a man. I had my taste in Qarth, that was enough. I will not come to Pentos bowl in hand.” (ASOS Daenerys II)

The reason why getting an army before she gets to Pentos is so important for Dany is because she lived in poverty before and knows that she can't rely too heavily on anyone - she learned that when no one would help her brother, she learned that again when no one would help her in Qarth even with her dragons. She doesn't want to be powerless, but, at the same time, she doesn't want other people to be powerless as well. Having show!Jorah say these things doesn't have the same significance because he didn't have the same experiences that Dany did nor does he care about the slaves' plight.

So, yeah, that change is doubly awful: it prioritizes a male slaver over a female revolutionary.

2) JORAH: Is it "we" already, Ser Barristan? If you want to sit on the throne your ancestors built, you must win it. That will mean blood on your hands before the thing is done.

Show!Jorah's second and third arguments are actually one and the same and are expressed by Jorah in the books as well:

“Your Grace,” said Jorah Mormont, “I saw King’s Landing after the Sack. Babes were butchered that day as well, and old men, and children at play. More women were raped than you can count. There is a savage beast in every man, and when you hand that man a sword or spear and send him forth to war, the beast stirs. The scent of blood is all it takes to wake him. Yet I have never heard of these Unsullied raping, nor putting a city to the sword, nor even plundering, save at the express command of those who lead them. Brick they may be, as you say, but if you buy them henceforth the only dogs they’ll kill are those you want dead. And you do have some dogs you want dead, as I recall.” (ASOS Daenerys II)

However, there are still issues with how they presented his argument in the show.

One, the show writers interspersed Jorah's argument in the show scene, which shows how much they want to reinforce it.

Two, they have show!Jorah undermine show!Barristan (who is anti-slavery) three times:

JORAH: Is it "we" already, Ser Barristan?

JORAH: How many wars have you fought in, Ser Barristan? [...] Have you ever seen a war where innocents didn't die by the thousands?

JORAH: Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, and Rhaegar died.

Look at show!Barristan finding no response to these points and his expressions indicating that he lost the argument:

By the time of this particular scene, show!Barristan had joined show!Dany's entourage one day ago (we know this because Kraznys said that show!Dany only had one day to decide if she would buy the Unsullied or not). Even if it's understandable (on a Watsonian perspective) that show!Jorah would distrust show!Barristan for that reason, it's less understandable (on a Doylist perspective) that the writers would use this reason to undermine show!Barristan's anti-slavery arguments or that they would write show!Jorah being distrustful of show!Barristan for that reason rather than the actual reasons in the books (i.e., Jorah being constantly disrespectful of Dany's boundaries and trying to isolate her from any man who, in his mind, threatens their relationship).

In contrast with the show, Dany has been with Barristan for enough time to trust him to be her sole companion when she meets Kraznys and the Unsullied. In fact, she brings him partly as an excuse to avoid to be alone with Jorah again after he kissed her without her consent:

He has a good face, and great strength to him, Dany thought. She could not understand why Ser Jorah mistrusted the old man so. Could he be jealous that I have found another man to talk to? Unbidden, her thoughts went back to the night on Balerion when the exile knight had kissed her. He should never have done that. He is thrice my age, and of too low a birth for me, and I never gave him leave. No true knight would ever kiss a queen without her leave. She had taken care never to be alone with Ser Jorah after that, keeping her handmaids with her aboard ship, and sometimes her bloodriders. He wants to kiss me again, I see it in his eyes. (ASOS Daenerys II)

And then there is the fact that the show writers have show!Barristan find no counterargument to show!Jorah's point below, as if that meant that it is too good to be questioned:

JORAH: How many wars have you fought in, Ser Barristan? [...] Have you ever seen a war where innocents didn't die by the thousands?

This happens because this moment was taken out of its original context in order to present show!Jorah as the "realist" one. Let's look at how the scene (which is only between Dany and Jorah) goes in the books:

“When Aegon the Dragon stepped ashore in Westeros, the kings of Vale and Rock and Reach did not rush to hand him their crowns. If you mean to sit his Iron Throne, you must win it as he did, with steel and dragonfire. And that will mean blood on your hands before the thing is done.”

Blood and fire, thought Dany. The words of House Targaryen. She had known them all her life. “The blood of my enemies I will shed gladly. The blood of innocents is another matter. Eight thousand Unsullied they would offer me. Eight thousand dead babes. Eight thousand strangled dogs.”

The Usurper’s dogs. “Yes.” Dany gazed off at the soft colored lights and let the cool salt breeze caress her. “You speak of sacking cities. Answer me this, ser—why have the Dothraki never sacked this city?” (ASOS Daenerys II)

Dany doesn't offer any answer to the question of innocents dying by the thousands, but that's because GRRM writes it so that Jorah ends his line of reasoning with the argument that buying the Unsullied will cause less deaths in her war in Westeros. Right after that, GRRM shows Dany making good observations and gathering more knowledge, which showcases her intelligence. The show, on the other hand, hammers home one particular perspective in a way that the books didn't in order to make show!Jorah look "realist".

Also, while we don't see Barristan explicitly replying to Jorah's arguments in the books (because, again, the context was both a) altered so that that would happen in the show and b) manufactured so that he would lose the discussion), I imagine he would remind Dany of this very important bit of information if he were to have a discussion with Jorah in front of Dany in the books like they did in the show:

“When I leave Astapor it must be with an army, Ser Jorah says.”

“Ser Jorah was a slaver himself, Your Grace,” the old man reminded her. (ASOS Daenerys II)

Which, conveniently, the show chooses to ignore entirely.

I spent a lot of time talking about show!Jorah's second and third arguments, their context and their framing because they undermine the original takeaway of Dany's storyline. I'm going to talk about show!Jorah's fourth argument later.

Now, let's move on to show!Barristan's arguments.

1) BARRISTAN: Leave this place, Your Grace. Leave tonight, I beg you.

2) BARRISTAN: We can find sellswords in Pentos and Myr.

All of these arguments are expressed in the books, but the context is, once again, different:

“Bricks and blood built Astapor,” Whitebeard murmured at her side, “and bricks and blood her people.”

“What is that?” Dany asked him, curious.

“An old rhyme a maester taught me, when I was a boy. I never knew how true it was. The bricks of Astapor are red with the blood of the slaves who make them.”

“I can well believe that,” said Dany.

“Then leave this place before your heart turns to brick as well. Sail this very night, on the evening tide.”

Would that I could, thought Dany. “When I leave Astapor it must be with an army, Ser Jorah says.”

“Ser Jorah was a slaver himself, Your Grace,” the old man reminded her. “There are sellswords in Pentos and Myr and Tyrosh you can hire. A man who kills for coin has no honor, but at least they are no slaves. Find your army there, I beg you.”

“Better to come a beggar than a slaver,” Arstan said.

“There speaks one who has been neither.” Dany’s nostrils flared. “Do you know what it is like to be sold, squire? I do. My brother sold me to Khal Drogo for the promise of a golden crown. Well, Drogo crowned him in gold, though not as he had wished, and I ... my sun-and-stars made a queen of me, but if he had been a different man, it might have been much otherwise. Do you think I have forgotten how it felt to be afraid?” (ASOS Daenerys II)

In the books, we are privy to Dany's perspective all the time. This scene (as I said both in this post and here) displays how her empathy for the slaves is informed not just by her moral principles or cultural values, but also by her own experiences as someone who struggled with poverty and was a slave herself.

In the series, show!Dany's voice is almost entirely erased and show!Barristan's is undermined to enhance show!Jorah's (as I showed above). Also, even if some of Barristan's points are also added in the show, we don't see him realizing how the rhyme he learned was accurate in more ways than he expected, we don't see him reminding Dany that Jorah was also a slaver and we don't feel his outrage at seeing the Unsullied's training (because, in the show, they had show!Jorah accompany show!Dany rather than him):

“You have lived long in the world, Whitebeard. Now that you have seen them, what do you say?”

“I say no, Your Grace,” the old man answered at once. 

“Why?” she asked. “Speak freely.” Dany thought she knew what he would say, but she wanted the slave girl to hear, so Kraznys mo Nakloz might hear later.

“My queen,” said Arstan, “there have been no slaves in the Seven Kingdoms for thousands of years. The old gods and the new alike hold slavery to be an abomination. Evil. If you should land in Westeros at the head of a slave army, many good men will oppose you for no other reason than that. You will do great harm to your cause, and to the honor of your House.”

“Yet I must have some army,” Dany said. “The boy Joffrey will not give me the Iron Throne for asking politely.”

“When the day comes that you raise your banners, half of Westeros will be with you,” Whitebeard promised. “Your brother Rhaegar is still remembered, with great love.”

“And my father?” Dany said.

The old man hesitated before saying, “King Aerys is also remembered. He gave the realm many years of peace. Your Grace, you have no need of slaves. Magister Illyrio can keep you safe while your dragons grow, and send secret envoys across the narrow sea on your behalf, to sound out the high lords for your cause.”

“Those same high lords who abandoned my father to the Kingslayer and bent the knee to Robert the Usurper?”

“Even those who bent their knees may yearn in their hearts for the return of the dragons.”

“May,” said Dany. That was such a slippery word, may. (ASOS Daenerys II)

This scene accomplishes a couple of things - not only it reinforces to the audience that what we are seeing is wrong, it also sets up Dany's conflicting feelings about her father and establishes, again, that Dany's decision to go to Astapor is shaped by her past experiences (namely, as I already said, that she's already struggled too much to not have a healthy dose of skepticism with regard to how much help other people are willing to give her). Basically, the scene emphasizes the anti-slavery messages of Dany's storyline and services Dany's characterization.

The show's scene accomplishes none of that.

Show!Barristan's third argument is the most explicit example of the show writers being uninterested in Dany's perspective:

Let's look at the context of this line in the books:

“Viserys would have bought as many Unsullied as he had the coin for. But you once said I was like Rhaegar ...”

“I remember, Daenerys.”

“Your Grace,” she corrected. “Prince Rhaegar led free men into battle, not slaves. Whitebeard said he dubbed his squires himself, and made many other knights as well.”

“There was no higher honor than to receive your knighthood from the Prince of Dragonstone.”

“Tell me, then—when he touched a man on the shoulder with his sword, what did he say? ‘Go forth and kill the weak’? Or ‘Go forth and defend them’? At the Trident, those brave men Viserys spoke of who died beneath our dragon banners—did they give their lives because they believed in Rhaegar’s cause, or because they had been bought and paid for?” Dany turned to Mormont, crossed her arms, and waited for an answer.

“My queen,” the big man said slowly, “all you say is true. But Rhaegar lost on the Trident. He lost the battle, he lost the war, he lost the kingdom, and he lost his life. His blood swirled downriver with the rubies from his breastplate, and Robert the Usurper rode over his corpse to steal the Iron Throne. Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaegar died.” (ASOS Daenerys II)

In the books, this line is not about Rhaegar at all! This is about Dany projecting her own values and ideals on Rhaegar because she wants to find a way out of the slave trade and thinking about what her biggest inspiration might have done (though she later admits she doesn't really know what he would do) would help her be more sure about what to do. This line is all about Dany!!!! By transferring her line to Barristan, not only the show writers are prioritizing a man's voice over hers, they are also making it about another man when it should be about her.

And now we get to show!Jorah's fourth argument (which is a response to show!Barristan's third argument), which I said I would comment later:

4) JORAH: Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, and Rhaegar died.

To quote myself on the significance of his advice,

Jorah didn’t really know who Rhaegar was, so I don’t think this sentence is necessarily reliable. The spirit of his advice is simple, however: Jorah is trying to normalize the training of the Unsullied and the existence of slavery in general as necessary evils if Dany is to win the game of thrones.

On the other hand, these words were also useful in another sense: sometimes you can’t play by the rules if you intend to succeed, especially not if these rules and conventions and institutions treat other people as interchangeable objects to be sold and invalidate your sense of morality. Barristan’s advice was also helpful, not in the sense that she should leave the city, but rather that she should not be a part of the slave trade. And so, like with Viserys and Drogo, she will find a solution that was informed by both of these men’s advice while also being her own: by refusing to view the slaves as objects to be traded, Dany considered the deal illegitimate and sparked an abolitionist campaign that would influence an entire continent. In other words, Dany did not play by the rules (like Jorah advised), but not by compromising her moral principles, but because of her moral principles (like Barristan advised).

However, because show!Dany's voice and motivations are so blatantly disregarded, the show can't develop her character in the same way.

Speaking of show!Dany, here's the one thing she has to say in the discussion of whether or not to buy the Unsullied:

1) DAENERYS: The blood of my enemies, not the blood of innocents.

This doesn't really say anything new about her line of thought that we didn't already know from episode 3.1, in which she agonized over the thousands of babies that would be (and would continue to be) killed if she became complicit in the slave trade. Show!Jorah, on the other hand, gets brand new arguments here.

By comparison, here are the arguments that Dany gets to make in the books (that are either erased or given to someone else). I'm not counting her reactions while she witnesses the Unsullied's training:

“Even those who bent their knees may yearn in their hearts for the return of the dragons.”

“May,” said Dany. That was such a slippery word, may. In any language. (ASOS Daenerys II)

Would that I could, thought Dany. “When I leave Astapor it must be with an army, Ser Jorah says.” (ASOS Daenerys II)

“Better to come a beggar than a slaver,” Arstan said.

“How many men do they have for sale?”

“None.” Was it Mormont she was angry with, or this city with its sullen heat, its stinks and sweats and crumbling bricks? “They sell eunuchs, not men. Eunuchs made of brick, like the rest of Astapor. Shall I buy eight thousand brick eunuchs with dead eyes that never move, who kill suckling babes for the sake of a spiked hat and strangle their own dogs? They don’t even have names. So don’t call them men, ser.”

“Khaleesi,” he said, taken aback by her fury, “the Unsullied are chosen as boys, and trained—”

“I have heard all I care to of their training.” Dany could feel tears welling in her eyes, sudden and unwanted. Her hand flashed up and cracked Ser Jorah hard across the face. It was either that, or cry.

Mormont touched the cheek she’d slapped. “If I have displeased my queen—”

“You have. You’ve displeased me greatly, ser. If you were my true knight, you would never have brought me to this vile sty.” If you were my true knight, you would never have kissed me, or looked at my breasts the way you did, or ...

“As Your Grace commands. I shall tell Captain Groleo to make ready to sail on the evening tide, for some sty less vile.”

“No,” said Dany. Groleo watched them from the forecastle, and his crew was watching too. Whitebeard, her bloodriders, Jhiqui, every one had stopped what they were doing at the sound of the slap. “I want to sail now, not on the tide, I want to sail far and fast and never look back. But I can’t, can I? There are eight thousand brick eunuchs for sale, and I must find some way to buy them.” (ASOS Daenerys II)

“The blood of my enemies I will shed gladly. The blood of innocents is another matter. Eight thousand Unsullied they would offer me. Eight thousand dead babes. Eight thousand strangled dogs.” (ASOS Daenerys II)

Everything that show!Dany has to say on the matter is concentrated on the last passage quoted, and its points are scattered across 3.1 and 3.3.

If the show writers cared about Dany's characterization, we would see how she presents different arguments to Barristan (that she needs an army because she has been poor before) and Jorah (that buying the Unsullied is immoral) at the same time and that both counsellors influence her decision to rebel against the masters in their own ways, as I explained in the quote above.

If the show writers cared about Dany's characterization, we would get hints that she feels that it is her moral duty to stay and help the Unsullied ("Would that I could", "There are eight thousand brick eunuchs for sale, and I must find some way to buy them", etc).

If the show writers cared about Dany's characterization, we would leave this scene with the impression that she already knows what she will do by the time she decides to trade one dragon for all of the Unsullied and the untrained boys. Instead, while we know that show!Dany wants to spare innocents and only kill her enemies and their soldiers, there isn’t enough evidence hinting at her eventual rebellion against the masters. In fact, she is still asking show!Barristan what he thinks, making it seem that she is still unsure of her plan or that she is more reliant on their viewpoints than she is in the books. That's the problem of interspersing lines and plot points between episodes: this discussion could have served for episode 3.1 (in which, if they were faithful to the books, show!Dany would have still been concocting her plan), but it doesn't for episode 3.3, in which they have it happen minutes before she makes her fateful decision.

So, in this exchange, we get very, very little about what show!Dany thinks. Show!Jorah is the one in favor of buying the Unsullied, show!Barristan is the one against it. One could argue, like @rainhadaenerys said to me, that show!Jorah is portrayed as the devil and show!Barristan as the angel on show!Dany's shoulders, similar to how show!Davos is the angel and show!Melisandre the devil on show!Stannis's. The show's influence may explain why some people think that Barristan is the one who motivated Dany to begin her anti-slavery rebellion. The books certainly don't allow that interpretation because Dany's voice remains front and center in the discussions, but the show is dead set on erasing it.

We end the exchange with this:

JORAH: Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, and Rhaegar died.

DAENERYS: Did you know him well, Ser Barristan?

BARRISTAN: I did, Your Grace. Finest man I ever met.

DAENERYS: I wish I had known him. But he was not the last dragon.

It's not true in the books that Barristan knew Rhaegar well:

“Did you know my brother Rhaegar as well?” 

“It was said that no man ever knew Prince Rhaegar, truly. I had the privilege of seeing him in tourney, though, and often heard him play his harp with its silver strings.” (ASOS Daenerys I)

I've already talked about how the show writers gave Dany's lines to show!Barristan, so I won't belabor the point. What I will say is that Benioff's emphasis on show!Dany's awareness that she is the last dragon is very questionable in its intent/framing. In and of itself, that original line is okay - women are often looked down upon if they express confidence both in Westeros and in our world, so it can be refreshing to see show!Dany claiming that Rhaegar was not the last dragon because she knows that she is. It can be refreshing to see a woman whose pride is depicted as a positive trait rather than one that propels her downfall. I'm sure that's the takeaway that what many viewers got from that scene and from show!Dany's trajectory in general in season three.

However, let's see what Benioff says about her in interviews:

Benioff: Dany is so defined by her dragons, they're so much a part at this point, they define her so much that when they're taken from her, it's almost like she reverts to the pre-dragon Daenerys, you know, everyone is a bit defined by who they were when they were an adolescent, you know, no matter how old you get, no matter how powerful you get, and Daenerys was a scared, timid, abused adolescent and I think when her dragons are taken for her, all those feelings, all those memories and emotions are triggered and come back and all the confidence that she's won over the last several months, it's as if that just evaporates and she's back to being a really frightened little girl. (D&D's Inside the Episode 2.6)

Benioff: Dany has her lovable side, but she is also ruthless, and she is also fiercely ambitious and, funnily, like a Littlefinger style ambition where she's trying to climb this, you know, the social ladder. It's almost like a Joan of Arc kind of ambition where she feels like she has this almost divine mission and nothing's going to prevent her from achieving it, and that might mean sacrificing those who are closest to her. (D&D's Inside the Episode 3.3)

Benioff: I think she becomes harder to dismiss, you know, for a long time people have been saying, even if she was alive, you know, really, the only threat she poses is her name, she's a Targaryen, great, but she's a little girl in the edge of the world, so she's starting to knock on people's doors a little bit. (D&D's Inside the Episode 3.4)

Right from the beginning, we can see that Benioff didn't really see show!Dany's pride and confidence and ambition positively. Not only does he think those aspects are dependent upon her dragons and her family name, he also thinks she has a "Littlefinger style ambition" and an "almost divine mission" that she will embark while thinking that "nothing's going to prevent her from achieving it". All of these statements mischaracterize Daenerys Targaryen, so I end up looking askance at the end of the scene for knowing that he's the one who wrote and directed it.

(Also, now that we know in hindsight that the show writers are not just going to strip show!Dany of many characteristics of her book counterpart, but also villainize her and kill her for the very confidence she is displaying here ... I can’t give them any credit.)

Dany does assert her identity and titles in a chapter that they are adapting in this episode, but the context (as usual) is entirely different:

Dany knew she would take more than a hundred, if she took any at all. “Remind your Good Master of who I am. Remind him that I am Daenerys Stormborn, Mother of Dragons, the Unburnt, trueborn queen of the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros. My blood is the blood of Aegon the Conqueror, and of old Valyria before him.”

Yet her words did not move the plump perfumed slaver, even when rendered in his own ugly tongue. “Old Ghis ruled an empire when the Valyrians were still fucking sheep,” he growled at the poor little scribe, “and we are the sons of the harpy.” He gave a shrug. “My tongue is wasted wagging at women. East or west, it makes no matter, they cannot decide until they have been pampered and flattered and stuffed with sweetmeats. Well, if this is my fate, so be it. Tell the whore that if she requires a guide to our sweet city, Kraznys mo Nakloz will gladly serve her ... and service her as well, if she is more woman than she looks.” (ASOS Daenerys II)

First, in this quote, we get a hint that Dany is intent on either freeing the slaves or not being complicit in their oppression ("she would take more than a hundred, if she took any at all").

Second, we see that Dany reminds Kraznys of her identity after she spent a very long time being belittled and mocked and ridiculed due to his fervent misogyny and xenophobia. Unlike show!Dany, she is bringing up her titles because she was being disrespected, not because she wants to bring them up for their own sake. In other words, the book's scene doesn't intend to frame Dany as arrogant, though it seems that the show's scene does.

I have thoughts about the show's change of Dany's dress, but I'll leave them to the section about her clothing.

So, to begin talking about the negotiation scene on a positive note, there are some aspects that the show remained faithful to the books to.

The first is that show!Dany is explicitly shown to be doing what she is doing because she wants to help the slaves:

It's funny to gif this scene as if show!Dany were rolling her eyes, but that's not what she is actually doing in the scene: she looks above, at the slaves, and then decides to risk one of her dragons for them. That much is unambiguously clear.

The second detail in common is this:

MISSANDEI: There are 8,000 Unsullied in Astapor. Is this what you mean by all?

DAENERYS: Yes. 8,000. And the ones still in training as well.

Show!Dany wants to free all of the slaves, so she asks for the eight thousand Unsullied and the untrained boys, just like Dany:

“Of thousands, there are eight. Is this what she means by all? There are also six centuries, who shall be part of a ninth thousand when complete. Would she have them too?”

“I would,” said Dany when the question was put to her. “The eight thousands, the six centuries ... and the ones still in training as well. The ones who have not earned the spikes.” (ASOS Daenerys III)

Unfortunately, this is all there is in terms of similarities. There are far more differences.

MISSANDEI: Master Greizhen says they cannot sell half-trained boys. If they fail on the battlefield, they will bring shame upon all of Astapor.

DAENERYS: I will have them all or take none. Many will fall in battle. I'll need the boys to pick up the swords they drop.

First of all, unlike in the show, there is a master willing to sell the untrained boys to Dany:

“We cannot sell half-trained boys,” one of the silver-fringe Grazdans was saying to the others.

“We can, if her gold is good,” said a fatter man whose fringe was gold.

“They are not Unsullied. They have not killed their sucklings. If they fail in the field, they will shame us. And even if we cut five thousand raw boys tomorrow, it would be ten years before they are fit for sale. What would we tell the next buyer who comes seeking Unsullied?”

“We will tell him that he must wait,” said the fat man. “Gold in my purse is better than gold in my future.” (ASOS Daenerys III)

Second, while Dany makes the argument that show!Dany is seen making:

“In a year I shall be in Westeros,” said Dany when she had heard the translation. “My need is now. The Unsullied are well trained, but even so, many will fall in battle. I shall need the boys as replacements to take up the swords they drop.” (ASOS Daenerys III)

They cut what Dany says right afterwards:

She put her wine aside and leaned toward the slave girl. “Tell the Good Masters that I will want even the little ones who still have their puppies. Tell them that I will pay as much for the boy they cut yesterday as for an Unsullied in a spiked helm.”

The girl told them. The answer was still no. 

Dany frowned in annoyance. “Very well. Tell them I will pay double, so long as I get them all.” (ASOS Daenerys III)

Because the show writers chose to only have show!Dany say that she will “need the boys to pick up the swords they drop”, it makes it seem that her request to get them is more strategic than empathetic. It's not; as we can see above, if they had added the bolded parts above, it would have made it even clearer that she is doing what she is doing solely because of her altruism.

MISSANDEI: Master Kraznys says you cannot afford this.

KRAZNYS: Her ship will buy her 100 Unsullied, no more.

MISSANDEI: Your ship will buy you 100 Unsullied.

KRAZNYS: And this because I like the curve of her ass.

MISSANDEI: Because Master Kraznys is generous.

KRAZNYS: What is left will buy her 10.

MISSANDEI: The gold you have left is worth 10.

KRAZNYS: I will give her if it stops her ignorant whimpering.

MISSANDEI: But good Master Kraznys will give you 20.

KRAZNYS: Her Dothraki smell of shit ...

MISSANDEI: The Dothraki you have with you…

KRAZNYS: ... but may be useful as pig feed.

MISSANDEI: The Dothraki you have are not worth what they cost to feed, but Master Kraznys will give you three Unsullied for all of them.

KRAZNYS: So, ask this beggar queen, how will she pay for the remaining 7,877?

The show also decreases the value of Dany's goods a lot.

In the books, Dany is willing to sell Illyrio's three ships (rather than one):

“...But my ships you can have. The great cog Balerion and the galleys Vhagar and Meraxes.” She had warned Groleo and the other captains it might come to this, though they had protested the necessity of it furiously. “Three good ships should be worth more than a few paltry eunuchs.”

The fat Grazdan turned to the others. They conferred in low voices once again. “Two of the thousands,” the one with the spiked beard said when he turned back. “It is too much, but the Good Masters are being generous and your need is being great.” (ASOS Daenerys III)

Have in mind that 2,000 is their worth after Dany chose to pay double for the Unsullied and the untrained boys. Normally, they would be worth 4,000. But let's be generous and use 2,000 ... This means that each ship is worth around 666 Unsullied.

And yet, in the show, her ship is worth 100 Unsullied.

In the books, this is how much Dany's gold and trading goods inside the ship are worth:

“Your men have gone through my ships and tallied every bead of amber and jar of saffron. How much do I have?”

“Sufficient to be buying one of thousands,” the Good Master said, with a contemptuous smile. “Yet you are paying double, you are saying. Five centuries, then, is all you buy.”

In the show, however, show!Dany's gold is only worth 10 Unsullied.

As for the Dothraki, before the slavers make an offer, Dany makes it clear that she will not sell them (or any of the people in her retinue, or any of their possessions):

“My crown is not for sale.” When Viserys sold their mother’s crown, the last joy had gone from him, leaving only rage. “Nor will I enslave my people, nor sell their goods and horses.[”]

Do I think leaving this part out means that show!Dany would be willing to enslave the Dothraki? Absolutely not, it wouldn't make sense with her characterization (watered down as it is). However, would it have cost much for the show writers to have her make it clear that she won't enslave them? Doesn't seem so.

Why is the decrease in the value of Dany's possessions important to have in mind? Because, in the books, it matters that she had other choices rather than the one she ultimately makes:

Two thousand would never serve for what she meant to do. I must have them all. Dany knew what she must do now, though the taste of it was so bitter that even the persimmon wine could not cleanse it from her month. She had considered long and hard and found no other way. It is my only choice. “Give me all,” she said, “and you may have a dragon.” (ASOS Daenerys III)

Dany "found no other way"? If she just wanted an army, she had plenty of other ways:

If she just wanted an army, she could have offered all the trading goods in the ships and gotten the 1000 Unsullied that Jorah advised her to get (unlike show!Jorah, Jorah explicitly recommends a specific number of soldiers - "a thousand swords")

If she just wanted an army, she wouldn’t have offered to pay double for the untrained boys.

If she just wanted an army, she could have given the trading goods and the ships and left with 2000 Unsullied.

If she just wanted an army, she wouldn’t have thought that she must have them all" and that “[i]t was [her] only choice” to offer them a dragon.

By stripping show!Dany of these options, the show writers undercut the extent of her altruism, for they erase the fact and Dany had other alternatives and still chose the moral one. In the books, it was never necessary for her to risk her dragon, but she did it anyway; in the show, 123 Unsullied was not enough to form an army, so one could, on a superficial read, argue that she's only doing what she's doing out of convenience.

Then, we get to the part in which show!Dany actually offers a dragon to the masters:

MISSANDEI: Master Kraznys asks how you propose to pay for the remaining 7,877 Unsullied.

DAENERYS: I have dragons. I'll give you one.

BARRISTAN: You will win the throne with dragons, not slaves, Your Grace.

JORAH: Khaleesi, please.

KRAZNYS: Three dragons.

DAENERYS: One.

KRAZNYS: Two.

DAENERYS: One.

MISSANDEI: They want the biggest one.

DAENERYS: Done.

KRAZNYS: Done.

Before I talk about how her advisors react, let's talk about how show!Dany's sacrifice is being undermined again: in the show, instead of being shocked that show!Dany is willing to sell even one dragon, Kraznys thinks he is entitled to ask for more of them. Let's see the masters' reactions in the books:

“Give me all,” she said, “and you may have a dragon.”

There was the sound of indrawn breath from Jhiqui beside her. Kraznys smiled at his fellows. “Did I not tell you? Anything, she would give us.” (ASOS Daenerys III)

“Tell them I await their answer.”

She knew the answer, though; she could see it in the glitter of their eyes and the smiles they tried so hard to hide. Astapor had thousands of eunuchs, and even more slave boys waiting to be cut, but there were only three living dragons in all the great wide world. And the Ghiscari lust for dragons. How could they not? Five times had Old Ghis contended with Valyria when the world was young, and five times gone down to bleak defeat. For the Freehold had dragons, and the Empire had none.

The oldest Grazdan stirred in his seat, and his pearls clacked together softly. “A dragon of our choice,” he said in a thin, hard voice. “The black one is largest and healthiest.”

“His name is Drogon.” She nodded.

“All your goods, save your crown and your queenly raiment, which we will allow you to keep. The three ships. And Drogon.”

“Done,” she said, in the Common Tongue. 

“Done,” the old Grazdan answered in his thick Valyrian.

The others echoed that old man of the pearl fringe. “Done,” the slave girl translated, “and done, and done, eight times done.”

As we can see, the masters are shocked that Dany would think that it's reasonable to offer even a single dragon. They can't hide how eager they are to control one (especially considering their past history with Old Valyria, which is another observation showcasing Dany's intelligence that the show erased). Their only request is to choose the biggest one, not to take one or two more. What's more, having show!Dany assert that she will only give one dragon makes it seem that her selflessness only goes so far, which is not at all what the purpose of the original scene was.

Now, on to what show!Dany’s advisors think of her trading one dragon for the Unsullied ...

DAENERYS: I have dragons. I'll give you one.

BARRISTAN: You will win the throne with dragons, not slaves, Your Grace.

JORAH: Khaleesi, please.

JORAH: Khaleesi, a dragon is worth more than any army.

BARRISTAN: Aegon Targaryen proved that.

DAENERYS: You're both here to advise me. I value your advice, but if you ever question me in front of strangers again, you'll be advising someone else. Is that understood?

In the books, Jorah never questions Dany's decision like show!Jorah is seen doing in the scene. In fact, he is the one who takes Barristan away from the negotiation scene (likely because he wants to get back into Dany’s good grace after he forced a kiss on her and she avoided him and later (rightfully) slapped him in the face):

“Give me all,” she said, “and you may have a dragon.”

[...] Whitebeard stared in shocked disbelief. His hand trembled where it grasped the staff. “No.” He went to one knee before her. “Your Grace, I beg you, win your throne with dragons, not slaves. You must not do this thing—”

“You must not presume to instruct me. Ser Jorah, remove Whitebeard from my presence.”

Mormont seized the old man roughly by an elbow, yanked him back to his feet, and marched him out onto the terrace. (ASOS Daenerys III)

Also, as I said here, I’m pretty sure Dany shared her plan to revolt against the masters with Jorah and her bloodriders.

Another reason why it bothers me to see show!Jorah reacting so negatively to the exchange show!Dany just made is that ... What else could she have done to get the Unsullied? Obviously, 123 of them wouldn’t be enough to get an army. In the books, before they sail to Astapor, Dany questions how she is going to buy the Unsullied and Jorah shows what she can do to buy them:

“That is what you will find in Astapor, Your Grace. Put ashore there, and continue on to Pentos overland. It will take longer, yes ... but when you break bread with Magister Illyrio, you will have a thousand swords behind you, not just four.”

There is wisdom in this, yes, Dany thought, but ... “How am I to buy a thousand slave soldiers? All I have of value is the crown the Tourmaline Brotherhood gave me.”

“Dragons will be as great a wonder in Astapor as they were in Qarth. It may be that the slavers will shower you with gifts, as the Qartheen did. If not ... these ships carry more than your Dothraki and their horses. They took on trade goods at Qarth, I’ve been through the holds and seen for myself. Bolts of silk and bales of tiger skin, amber and jade carvings, saffron, myrrh ... slaves are cheap, Your Grace. Tiger skins are costly.” (ASOS Daenerys I)

As we can see, Jorah is able to roughly estimate that Illyrio's trade goods will guarantee one thousand soldiers for Dany because "slaves are cheap". In the show, he either made a wrong calculation or neither him nor show!Dany thought of making one in the first place, which dumbs both of them down.

Now, I have a guess as to why show!Jorah is made to disagree with show!Dany's decision - that's, again, because Benioff empathizes with him over Dany. I've already showed above and in episode 3.1 how show!Jorah's viewpoint is consistently prioritized over show!Dany's or show!Barristan's and how he even receives new arguments that make him seem "realist". We should also have Benioff's statements in this interview in mind:

“It’s a hallmark of a number of scenes in [A Storm of Swords] where, in retrospect, I should have seen it coming because George laid out all the pieces, he had given you all the clues,” Benioff said. “The best kind of surprises aren’t the ones that come out of nowhere. The best ones are where after you see it you’re asking yourself, ‘Why didn’t I see that was coming?’ I remember reading [Dany planning to give up Drogon to the slaver] and thinking, ‘Oh, this is kind of disappointing.’ When the real plan was revealed I think I even called [Weiss]. This was before we had met with George, when we were still trying to figure out if this show was possible. The culmination of that scene was one of those moments when we were like, ‘We got to make this f–king show.’ It was very gratifying seeing that wish fulfilled … I think it will be one of the most staggering things ever put on television.” (x)

To be fair to him, at least he acknowledges that GRRM left many clues that that was going to happen (though he didn't add them in the show). But my point is that he was disappointed at Dany when he thought she was giving Drogon up. Since show!Jorah's perspective has been prioritized over the other characters' to the point of the audience being made to empathize and experience the events with him rather than with Dany, it only makes sense that he has the same feelings that Benioff did when he first read the book.

Another thing I want to mention is how Benioff is motivated by the spectacle rather than how the culmination is tied to Dany's characterization. This is partly why, I suspect, so many of Dany's words and thoughts were erased - he prioritized the viewer's shock rather than allowing the viewer to see where she is coming from. (That's similar to the buildup - or lack thereof - to Littlefinger's trial in season seven, when we ended up seeing the events from his perspective rather than the Starks' because they would rather shock us than make us empathize with the actual leads)

As for show!Barristan, some of his book counterpart's arguments are kept in the show - namely, that Dany should win the throne with dragons rather than slaves and that Aegon proved that a dragon is worth more than an army in the Field of Fire. Even so, Barristan's moral outrage has been erased, as I already showed with the book evidence quoted above (here are some examples).

And then there’s show!Dany’s reaction to their dissent:

DAENERYS: You're both here to advise me. I value your advice, but if you ever question me in front of strangers again, you'll be advising someone else. Is that understood?

Look, I have no problem with this scene in and of itself. Show!Dany makes it clear that she’s willing to listen to them, but that her authority can’t be undermined in front of other people (even more so when these people are already prone to underestimate her).

However, some crucial details are missing in this scene compared to the books:

Arstan Whitebeard held his tongue as well, when Dany swept by him on the terrace. He followed her down the steps in silence, but she could hear his hardwood staff tap tapping on the red bricks as they went. She did not blame him for his fury. It was a wretched thing she did. The Mother of Dragons has sold her strongest child. Even the thought made her ill.

Yet down in the Plaza of Pride, standing on the hot red bricks between the slavers’ pyramid and the barracks of the eunuchs, Dany turned on the old man. “Whitebeard,” she said, “I want your counsel, and you should never fear to speak your mind with me ... when we are alone. But never question me in front of strangers. Is that understood?”

“Yes, Your Grace,” he said unhappily. 

“I am not a child,” she told him. “I am a queen.”

“Yet even queens can err. The Astapori have cheated you, Your Grace. A dragon is worth more than any army. Aegon proved that three hundred years ago, upon the Field of Fire.”

“I know what Aegon proved. I mean to prove a few things of my own.” (ASOS Daenerys III)

Unlike in the show, Dany is shown empathizing with Barristan ("She did not blame him for his fury. It was a wretched thing she did."). She doesn’t want to be complicit in the slave trade, and she certainly doesn’t want to sell one of her children, but it’s still the moral duty of a queen as she sees it.

Unlike in the show, Dany is the one who takes the initiative to make it clear to Barristan that she wants his honest advice, just not in public. Unlike in the show, she never threatens to send him away.

They also cut the part in which Dany says that she knows what Aegon proved and that she means to prove a few things of her own, another hint that she will forsake the deal because it should have never been acknowledged as one to begin with.

Before I talk about show!Dany's first one-on-one interaction with show!Missandei, I have to comment on this part:

DAENERYS: I'll take you as well, now. You'll be Master Kraznys' gift to me. A token of a bargain well struck.

MISSANDEI: She asks that you give me to her, as a present. She asks that you do this now.

In the books, Kraznys voluntarily gives Missandei to Dany:

“The Unsullied will learn your savage tongue quick enough,” added Kraznys mo Nakloz, when all the arrangements had been made, “but until such time you will need a slave to speak to them. Take this one as our gift to you, a token of a bargain well struck.”

“I shall,” said Dany.

The slave girl rendered his words to her, and hers to him. If she had feelings about being given for a token, she took care not to let them show. (ASOS Daenerys III)

Now, does this change mean that show!Dany sees show!Missandei as an object to be sold? No. For one, as Emilia Clarke says:

Clarke: Dany sees a lot of herself in her and can kind of see that it's a young girl who's capable of much more than the position she's in.

If show!Dany is able to empathize with show!Missandei on that level, it's much more likely that show!Dany asked to have show!Missandei so that she could free her from Kraznys (who is unabashedly cruel and misogynist). That being said, it is still an unnecessary deviation that can lead to pointless misunderstanding from the viewers.

While show!Dany and show!Missandei discuss some of the same issues that Dany and Missandei do in the books, their first one-on-one meeting is very condensed and altered in several key ways.

DAENERYS: Do you have a name?

MISSANDEI: This one's name is Missandei, Your Grace.

DAENERYS: Do you have a family? A mother and a father you'd return to if you had the choice?

MISSANDEI: No, Your Grace. No family living.

DAENERYS: You belong to me now. It is your duty to tell me the truth.

MISSANDEI: Yes, Your Grace. Lying is a great offense. Many of those on the Walk of Punishment were taken there for less.

Show!Dany begins asking if show!Missandei had a family that she would like to return to, which implies that show!Dany would let her go if show!Missandei had one (again, this is another moment challenging the idea that show!Dany only saw show!Missandei as an object). Show!Missandei replies that she doesn’t, however. This leads show!Dany to remind her that she needs to tell her the truth, which doesn’t make sense. Why would show!Missandei lie about it? Especially since, in the books, Dany doesn’t outright say that “it is your duty to tell me the truth”, merely that “you serve me now” when she wants to confirm with Missandei information that she got from Kraznys about the Unsullied:

“Are these Unsullied truly fearless?”

“Yes, Your Grace.”

“You serve me now. Is it true they feel no pain?”

“The wine of courage kills such feelings. By the time they slay their sucklings, they have been drinking it for years.” (ASOS Daenerys III)

Dany is not reminding Missandei of the need to tell her the truth because she is mistrusting Missandei right off the bat like show!Dany seems to be doing with show!Missandei, she is asking that question because confirming these details will be crucial if she means to turn the Unsullied to her side when she risks both her life and those of her retinue to free them. But the show beats on that dead horse and even has Missandei answer that she wouldn’t lie because to do so would lead her to the Walk of Punishment. It decontextualizes why Dany reminded Missandei of the need to tell her the truth in the books.

Missandei is treated differently by Dany in the two mediums in other ways. In the book, Dany is shown onpage freeing her right away and names her one of her handmaids in case she decides to stay with her:

“Missandei is no longer a slave. I free you, from this instant. Come ride with me in the litter, I wish to talk.” Rakharo helped them in, and Dany drew the curtains shut against the dust and heat. “If you stay with me you will serve as one of my handmaids,” she said as they set off. “I shall keep you by my side to speak for me as you spoke for Kraznys. But you may leave my service whenever you choose, if you have father or mother you would sooner return to.” (ASOS Daenerys III)

In the show, they have show!Dany say that show!Missandei can’t lie because “you belong to me now”, which makes it seem like a master talking to a slave. However, we know that show!Dany frees show!Missandei at some point as well (the latter says so in season seven), the show writers just didn't bother to show it onscreen because, as this meta is hopefully showing, they don't care about Dany's characterization. In any case, show!Dany doing anything but that wouldn’t make sense neither with how she reacts to the Unsullied’s plight nor with Emilia Clarke’s interview. If they had followed the book’s exchange more closely rather than invented new dialogue, there wouldn't have been any confusions.

They have show!Dany confirm with show!Missandei the information she got from Kraznys about the Unsullied:

DAENERYS: Is it true what Master Kraznys told me about the Unsullied? About their obedience?

MISSANDEI: All questions have been taken from them. They obey, that is all. Once they are yours, they are yours. They will fall on their swords if you command it.

However, they forgot to include the most relevant part of exchange, plot-wise: Dany asking Missandei if the Unsullied could be used against her if Dany were to resell them.

“If I did resell them, how would I know they could not be used against me?” Dany asked pointedly. “Would they do that? Fight against me, even do me harm?”

“If their master commanded. They do not question, Your Grace. All the questions have been culled from them. They obey.” She looked troubled. “When you are ... when you are done with them ... your Grace might command them to fall upon their swords.”

“And even that, they would do?” 

“Yes.” Missandei’s voice had grown soft. “Your Grace.” (ASOS Daenerys III)

Dany is making this hypothetical question because she wants to know if there’s any way that the Unsullied can be turned against their previous owner, which is what she intends to do in order to rebel against the masters and free the soldiers.

Then show!Dany reminds show!Missandei that, by following her, she might be vulnerable to many possible misfortunes:

DAENERYS: And what about you? You know that I'm taking you to war. You may go hungry. You may fall sick. You may be killed.

This does happen in the books, but the context is different.

“This one will stay,” the girl said. “This one ... I ... there is no place for me to go. This ... I will serve you, gladly.”

“I can give you freedom, but not safety,” Dany warned. “I have a world to cross and wars to fight. You may go hungry. You may grow sick. You may be killed.” (ASOS Daenerys III)

In the books, as I said, Dany frees Missandei right away, says she might leave her service when she wants to and then warns her of the harsh conditions she will face if she remains with Dany.

In the series, show!Dany reminds show!Missandei of the obstacles she will have to face if she remains with her primarily because she wants to know if show!Missandei is as obedient as the Unsullied, not because she is primarily concerned about show!Missandei’s safety and free will. Again, I don’t mean to be critical of show!Dany here - I do think she had show!Missandei’s best intentions in mind (and that she freed her afterwards offscreen). I’m only saying that the writers could have conveyed that in a more unequivocal way ... like how the books did, y'know.

Like in the books, show!Missandei also says valar morghulis when show!Dany warns her of the dangers of staying with her, but her answer is different from Dany's:

DAENERYS: Yes, all men must die. But we are not men.

“All men must die,” Dany agreed, “but not for a long while, we may pray.” (ASOS Daenerys III)

I don't think this is the worst line ever made for show!Dany, but I definitely prefer the book one and it's sad to revisit that quote now that we know that both show!Dany and show!Missandei will be dead by the end of the series.

Show!Missandei also seems to become fond of show!Dany way too quickly. That line “but we are not men” seems to have the intent to build a feeling of solidarity between these two women (and this is corroborated, again, by Emilia’s interview quoted above); indeed, in the next episode, show!Missandei will give Kraznys a smirk when show!Dany admits that she was fooling him all along. In the books, however, not only we never see Missandei’s reaction to Dany’s rebellion, but her feelings about being given away to Dany seem much more complicated - understandably so.

“I shall keep you by my side to speak for me as you spoke for Kraznys. But you may leave my service whenever you choose, if you have father or mother you would sooner return to.”

“This one will stay,” the girl said. “This one ... I ... there is no place for me to go. This ... I will serve you, gladly.” (ASOS Daenerys III)

She looked troubled. “When you are ... when you are done with them ... your Grace might command them to fall upon their swords.”

“And even that, they would do?” 

“Yes.” Missandei’s voice had grown soft. “Your Grace.”

Dany squeezed her hand. “You would sooner I did not ask it of them, though. Why is that? Why do you care?”

“This one does not ... I ... Your Grace ... ” 

“Tell me.” 

The girl lowered her eyes. “Three of them were my brothers once, Your Grace.”

Then I hope your brothers are as brave and clever as you. (ASOS Daenerys III)

Even if Dany has noble intentions and frees her right away, where would she go? What would she do? How would she survive? Does she have a better option? These are questions that Dany will only directly confront in the next chapter, when plenty of Astapori freedmen will choose to follow her instead of staying in the city. In Missandei’s case, she seems more resigned than anything else in the books.

Also, even if Dany freed Missandei, it doesn't prevent the latter from looking "troubled" and seriously consider the possibility that Dany may order all the Unsullied to kill themselves. Her former master had no problem humiliating and torturing her, why would Dany be any different?

The show could have acknowledged these complications, but it didn’t - that’s why it sucks so much: it pretends to be telling a morally complex tale (see Benioff saying how hard it is for Dany to choose between violence/"realism" and idealism) while it actually undermines the anti-slavery viewpoints (especially Dany’s) and oversimplifies the (positive and negative) ramifications of Dany’s crusade. If it actually intended to be a morally complex tale like it pretends to be, we would see the Astapori refugees in the show. Instead, they would rather overfocus on how show!Dany is becoming “more violent” as her crusade continues (see this).

My comments on the Inside the Episode 3.3

Weiss: Giving away one of the dragons seems like a completely insane thing to do, especially the biggest one. I mean, we know that, historically, the biggest dragons were bigger than school buses and they were weapons of mass destruction and able to lay cities to waste in minutes, and no matter how big or effective your army of 8,000 soldiers is, taking even a small city is going to be a kind of a dangerous prospect for them, and the idea that she's going to give away what they see is her real future for a chance at a small army now seems insane to them.

Benioff: As @rainhadaenerys already said in her tags here, Benioff's comments make it seem like Dany's "lovable side" is secondary to her ruthlessness or her ambition or her "almost divine mission". Check out my list of passages showcasing Dany's moments of empathy and compassion VS in which ways the prophecies drive Dany's story (and also this meta) VS the moments in which Dany uses/considers using violence. The former obviously outweighs the latter two. I also recommend reading this meta debunking claims that Dany is "entitled" or "arrogant", for these false accusations are related to the mischaracterization of Dany as someone who is "fiercely ambitious" (that's because they are all tied to her heritage and her goal to take back the Seven Kingdoms). Finally, I don't know why the heck Benioff is saying that she might sacrifice "those who are closest to her". Time and again we see that she is not willing to sacrifice people for her personal goals - she won't sell anyone from her retinue or any of their belongings nor will she leave the slaves behind at the mercy of the masters. Her risking one dragon is an action that's supposed to highlight how far she is willing to go to "protect the ones who can't protect themselves". Why doesn't he ever bother to talk about her selflessness? Why is it always about her ambition or a "divine mission" that is nowhere to be found in Dany's consciousness in the books?

Weiss: It's annoying that he's talking about show!Jorah as if he were against show!Dany's decision to trade a dragon for the Unsulllied (which he never was in the books), but I've already written about that extensively in this post. His description of the dragons as being "able to lay cities to waste in minutes" is questionable, as well as his description of 8,000 men as "a small army".

Show!Dany's clothes

This episode adapts events from ASOS Daenerys II (which has no description of her clothes) and ASOS Daenerys III, in which we see her wearing this dress for the negotiation scene:

She had chosen a Qartheen gown today. The deep violet silk brought out the purple of her eyes. The cut of it bared her left breast. While the Good Masters of Astapor conferred among themselves in low voices, Dany sipped tart persimmon wine from a tall silver flute. She could not quite make out all that they were saying, but she could hear the greed. (ASOS Daenerys III)

This scene exhibits Dany's political skills - by using a dress that calls attention to her body and arouses the masters, she disarms them and potentially makes them more amenable to her offers.

I also think it's significant that the dress is Qartheen, for their culture (as seen through Dany's eyes) is marked by flattery and adulation and politeness and dishonesty.

In the show, however, show!Dany is still using the blue dress:

Unlike in episode 3.1 (which adapted a scene in the docks in which she was using Dothraki clothing), now I can't say that the dress is spiritually faithful to the one from the books. It's another opportunity that they missed to highlight aspects of Dany's characterization that tend to be overlooked (in this case, her intelligence).

There is a 2012 interview in which Emilia Clarke addresses the matter of the Qartheen fashion:

FaB: Some fans were irked at the news that the Qartheen fashion of leaving one breast exposed was not being adhered to, as it was in the books. And speaking as a heterosexual male, I suppose that’s a shame… yet I also think, visually, it would have been extremely distracting to the eye. Was this ever discussed?

EC: This was indeed discussed! I remember when I was filming in Croatia seeing a copy of book 2, and the front cover picture was of Dany in the ‘traditional Qartheen fashion’ and you could say that I was rather taken aback. There are lots of things to bear in mind when adapting a book for the screen, and yes we all agreed that if this was kept as a visual reference, it would take away from the drama and integrity of Dany’s storyline as she grows into such a strong Khalessi.

Emilia's thoughts must be respected, especially considering what she's been through on set. Also, have in mind that I'm a gay man speaking about the issue of female nudity in media, so I don't have the full awareness to discuss it like women do because I'm not a victim of the male gaze. If I'm being callous, please let me know.

With this caveat in mind, I don't think having show!Dany wear a Qartheen dress in this scene would "take away from the drama and integrity of Dany's storyline". In fact, it would have been an example of nudity being used to display Dany's shrewdness rather than to sexualize her. It would have been an example of her nakedness being normalized rather than fetishized (like it will be in episode 3.7, when she stands up naked to show!Daario just ... because).

#daenerys targaryen #asoiaf meta #valyrianscrolls #a storm of swords #missandei #asoiaf vs got #asos vs got #barristan selmy #jorah mormont #s3

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renaroo · 4 years

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Some Times (Time and Time Again) (4/8)

Disclaimer: Booster Gold, Blue Beetle, and associated characters are the creative property of DC Comics. Warnings: Canon shaken not stirred, Heavy canon references to Booster Gold (2009-2011) and Blue Beetle (2016-2018) Pairings: Boostle Rating: T Synopsis: Booster Gold and the rest of the Time Masters are still straightening up things in the wake of the most recent universal Rebirth. But Rip Hunter is still missing in the aftermath, leaving Booster in charge with Skeets, Michelle, and Rani. But there’s a distraction for Booster, one he can’t keep himself from ignoring.

Ted Kord, miraculously, is still alive. And that makes everything more complicated than Michael could have ever imagined.

A/N: Haha! How’s that for an improved rate for chapter turn arounds! I don’t know if I can manage it weekly, but boy wouldn’t that be nice. All things considering.

And lovely and well deserved thanks to @mcbangle, @shibascarf, @secretlystephaniebrown, AlreadyThere, and Schwoo99 for your lovely feedback and support! It’s greatly appreciated.

Booster Gold

It was already a hell of a day by the time Booster finds himself racing throughout the busted up laboratory in search for Rani. He is in an all around bad mood, conflicted and somewhat wounded with old pains and traumas licking at his heels thanks to the conversation with Ted.

Then Rani — sweet, terrified, all his fault Rani — is gone. And there’s only an open wormhole leftover in the cabinet to clue him into what’s going on.

Using the Legionnaire flight ring, Booster kicks off the ground and zips back to where Michelle is standing by the lab command center. She’s looking a little shellshocked but Booster absolutely does not have time for that.

“She’s gone!” he yells at his sister instead. “She’s teleported out, but why!?” When that fails to draw Michelle’s attention, Booster comes to a hovering stop by her and stares in disbelief. “Michelle!” he snaps in imitation. “Are you listening!?”

Without turning toward him, Michelle says, “I know where she went.” Her hand draws up and points toward the chalkboard.

Not even fully listening to Michelle, Booster follows her gaze to the board and feels himself go slightly off balance. If he hadn’t been using the flight ring, he might’ve ended up on the floor sideways from the knock to his teeth.

On Rip’s meticulously kept chalkboard is a newly etched message that Booster knows for a fact was not there even earlier that day when he got back.

Ted Kord is KEY.

“What the hell?” Booster articulates first. Then, with a slight pang, he recognizes something even more pressing about the message. “Is that… is that Rip’s writing? No… Who…” he rambles out loud before glancing around the lab.

Half of him wants to accuse Rip Hunter of hiding in the shadows, of playing some kind of joke wrapped up in the 4D Chess he has been doing since he first met Booster. But there is nothing to see. There’s no one but them. Only Michael and Michelle.

Which begs another question.

“Skeets?” Booster calls out to no avail.

“Rani is looking for Rip. She sees a message from Rip. She takes the message and runs with it before thinking things through,” Michelle deduces. She then gives Booster and accusatory stare. “Wonder where she picks that up from?”

“I need to get to Ted’s, get Rani, put out any fires…” Booster lists off, already on his way to the transmat.

“Would you hold your horses?” Michelle demands. “I’ll put on my Goldstar suit and we’ll go together. I don’t like how this feels, Michael—“

“I’ve got this,” Booster doesn’t so much as argue as he is concluding the conversation.

“Jesus Christ what did I just say about running into things without thinking them through?” Michelle yells as she takes off running toward her room.

“No time for thinking!” Booster yells back, already beginning to transport. “The multiverse is colliding together because my daughter and my best friend are meeting each other!”

Michelle apparently has no comeback because rather than screaming it, Booster only hears a frustrated roar that he is far more familiar with than he should be.

In Booster’s mind, the worst case scenario is already upon him. Rani, freaking out and distressed, huddled in a corner while Ted, freaking out and distressed, is calling up whatever passes for social services among the Justice League. Someone will ask questions, take records, and Rani is suddenly on the map for some sort of time traveling ne’er-do-well to get at Booster if they want to. And he’ll lose Rani out of the great wide nothing just like he lost Rip—

Booster does his best to turn the alarms in his brain from an eleven to about a nine and thinks what complications this means for him and Ted.

Things are already complicated, Booster was hoping to go over some script or something with Michelle before hanging out with Ted again. How many things can he share? How much can Ted even be expected to believe? And how in the world is Ted going to forgive him for being a different person without any of the years and years of context that is suddenly missing between them?

How can Booster resist his instinct to constantly screw things up with the two people, at the moment, he cares about the most in terms of not getting screwed over?

It seems like a tall order, and before he touches foot in Ted’s lab again, he’s certain there’s a mix of these two things that will be his worst case scenario.

That is, until the reality smacks him in the face with a whole lot worse.

Black Beetle — his seemingly nameless and faceless enemy throughout the time stream — is standing in Ted’s laboratory. And worse yet, he is doing so with a gun much more serious than Ted’s old BB gun, right at Ted’s head. And Ted, for his part, seems genuinely stunned.

“Ted Kord,” Black Beetle snarls, “you must die!”

“NO!” Booster screams, the sound ripping through his throat from the core of his being.

He’s in the air and barreling toward Black Beetle before it even registers that Ted has leaped into action, grabbing Rani and rolling behind the desk. It’s a close call and Booster can only begin to thank his stars that Ted really is the Ted of his memories, but there’s not time to dwell.

“Get the hell away from them!” Booster roars as he connects his forcefield protected knuckles with the side of Black Beetle’s armored head.

Even with his field up, Booster feels the hit in the bones of his fist. There’s something harder to Black Beetle than the last time they fought. Which, Booster has to admit to himself, is not a good sign for him.

“Booster Gold,” Black Beetle snaps angrily, catching the second fist Booster throws at him. “I am surprised by your resilience.”

“By now you really shouldn’t be,” Booster growls back. He aims for the unarmored mouth on Black Beetle only to be caught a second time.

“After our last Beetle adventures, I had thought you had your fill of failing to save your friend from death,” Black Beetle hisses. Then, without warning, his head comes jutting forward, breaking through the field around Booster’s body with speed and precision to land a perfect headbutt for Booster’s nose. “But apparently your masochism is greater than that of the average fool.”

Dazed, Booster backs away with his hands released and instinctively reaches for his nose. Definitely broken, definitely gushing blood — but he doesn’t have the time for it because Black Beetle is already coming back at him.

Gritting his teeth, Booster directs the field shields to his left side and successfully deflects the incoming right hook. It gives him enough time to spit out a mouthful of blood and course correct. He needs some distance, maybe use a concussive blast to further to swing it.

He doesn’t get the time or the distance, however, as the Black Beetle armor produces a clawing arm-like extension which grabs Booster at the waist and clamps down, hard.

“Booster!” Ted yells.

“Mikey!” Rani screeches.

A quick panic tears its way through Booster and he glances wildly in the direction of the two voices. His fingers are still grappling with the claws of Black Beetle but his attention is fully on Ted and Rani — they are too close to all of this! Booster has to get Black Beetle away from them and do it fast.

“Stay down! Both of you!” Booster yells at them just before Black Beetle slams him headlong into the Bug.

“I have lost my patience for your persistent meddling!” Black Beetle snarls. “I will set all things right today! I will see to it that any anomalies for the time stream are destroyed! And I will enjoy listening to your pathetic screams as you know that you still are powerless to do a thing!”

Booster has literal stars in his vision once the dark clad time traveler drops him on the ground. His neck aches and he can feel the wheeze of air pushing back into his lungs. He knows he has to get back up, though, or else someone is going to do something stupid.

“I’ve had about enough of this!” Ted growls.

“Oh, no,” Booster says, smacking himself in the head to try to clear his vision quicker.

“Sir!” Skeets buzzes in front of him.

“Skeets! Save Ted! Rani! Anyone! Fuck!” Booster orders, pushing to his feet and seeing where Ted was.

Ted has already slid over the top of his desk, goggles on and pulled out some sort of large canon looking device with a fanned out disk at its front. When Black Beetle immediately shoots for the in-the-open Ted, the reply is given in kind by the strange device which showered the entire room with an immense white light.

“Solar gun kinetic converter!” Ted preens, even as the blowback sends him to the ground. He coughs. “Has a kick, but anything you throw at me, this baby will convert into a concussive blast and hit brighter!”

Booster smirks and pushes off from the ground in order to boost his launch speed as he hurled himself at Black Beetle.

The light flash from Ted’s machine has put the Black Beetle off balance enough for Booster to throw himself into and shove the man out toward the door and into the hall, out the tenth floor window.

As soon as Black Beetle crashes through the glass, Booster firmly digs his heels into the ground and skids to a halt just short of heading out himself. He releases a long sigh of relief as he actually does seem to have gotten ahead.

Unfortunately, Black Beetle’s armor seems to remember it has flight capabilities much faster than Booster did.

“Damn it,” Booster hisses, looking over his shoulder and realizing that Ted is rushing his way and Rani has crawled out from under Ted’s desk to get a better look. “Skeets! Get her down!”

The tiny robot is quick to listen, and Booster barking orders at all seems to make Ted take pause, but not before the shadow of Black Beetle hovering outside eclipses them both.

Booster locks eyes with Ted and feels that ever present twinge of guilt and horror that has lived with him for nearly five years at this point.

“Ted! Down!” Booster yells.

But it isn’t like before. There is action that Booster can take.

Thinking on his feet, Booster projects his forcefield onto Ted. It encloses the semi-retired Blue Beetle in an oval dome before moving along with Booster as they flew toward the laboratory.

“Are you going to explain anything that’s happening to me?” Ted demands as they land in relative safety from their attacker.

“Later over beer if we make it,” Booster promises wearily.

For a brief moment, Ted looks in Booster’s direction. He’s only nodding along to Booster’s words and yet, as he does so, Booster sees a trust and security from Ted that warms something deep inside of him. It’s been so long since they were doing this, side by side, both in the exact same moment.

Both trusting each other because… as long as they’re Blue and Gold they’re bound to win. Somehow. Some ridiculous fashion.

It’s all Booster can do to take a breath and feel confident that it’s going to be okay.

Just before he loses Ted’s gaze. Ted’s looking back in the direction of Black Beetle and his body immediately seizes in tension.

“Round Three!” Ted yells in warning.

Booster raises his guard and steels himself, but he already knows his main objective.

Skeets has Rani. Booster has Ted guarded with every ounce of reserve power his suit has.

Whatever comes next is going to hurt.

Black Beetle flies at Booster like a bat out of hell, crashing into him and the Bug once more. The metal surface crushes in around Booster as a result of the impact. Booster feels the air pushed out of his lungs but he refuses to think about it, instead punching as much as he can right for Black Beetle’s big dumb jaw.

Some hits land, but the momentum is working against Booster as he feels a pop in his shoulder against the grinding metal of the bug.

“You have no concept of the danger you’re in!” Black Beetle snarls, grabbing Booster’s shoulders and flying with him to the floor.

They crash into the cement, Booster first yet again, but this time Booster can get a footing. He kicks off the pavement and plants his feet right for Black Beetle’s crotch.

Even armored, the villain juts away on instinct, which gives Booster time use a concussive blast. He can only lift his left arm, but it’s enough to give space between them.

It’s not enough. Black Beetle is ready to go before Booster’s even caught his breath.

Fortunately, there is a boom followed by the cracking and folding of metal all around them.

Booster lifts up his head to get a good view as Michelle uses her magnetic fields to crush what’s left of the Bug and the surrounding loose metal and bring it down on the Beetle’s head.

“Get away from my brother!” she yells.

Taken by surprise, Beetle is brought down, the crushing weight growing the longer Michelle levies her magnetism on him. “Damn you, Carters, no!” he roars, reaching with his loosest hand toward the chest piece of his suit. “This is not over!”

With a similar BOOM and spectacle, the Beetle is gone, and all the metal and electronics in the area around him fall in a heap to the ground.

“Heard… that before,” Booster musters, pushing to his feet. His ankle twists in a wrong way and he collides with the floor. His unresponsive arm does nothing to brace for the fall.

“Michael!” Michelle yells.

“Booster!” Ted yells right along with her.

And just before he passes out, Booster thinks how unexpected and wonderful it feels to hear both of their voices at once.

#writing #dc fic #DC: Some Times (Time and Time Again)#Booster Gold #Michael Jon Carter #Ted Kord #Rani #Michelle Carter #Goldstar #Black Beetle

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codenamesazanka · 5 years

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I know this is a really vague thing to ask, but do you have any tips for writing Shigaraki? I know Echodrops made a whole meta about fanon Shigaraki vs canon Shigaraki but do you personally have anything in particular you'd want to mention yourself about the portrayal of Shigaraki in fanfics?

(Here’s the link to @echodrops‘s post! It’s really, really good, and helped me figure out Shigaraki a lot in the first place. thank you!)

oooh! Not at all a vague thing, this is a great question. I started all this meta because I wanted to figure out how to write Shigaraki as well. A word of caution tho, because this would be my personal interpretation of Shigaraki, though I’ll try to use as much manga examples as I can. As always, super long post.

Note: images are edited to fit exact quotes to relevant and reasonable sized images, instead of a whole manga page

Here’s some hand man characteristics/traits that I think are overlooked:

Shigaraki Tomura, in his beliefs/values, has a tendency for all-or-nothing thinking, to be extreme in his actions. In all three of his incarnations - the oneshot Tenko, the draft Sazanka, and this current one - a core of the character is 1) finding something flawed/bad/had hurt him somehow 2) completely loathing it 3) vowing to destroy it.

Tenko despised samurai and their warring, and wishes to rid the world of swords. Sazanka is on a quest to kill quirk-users with quirks he deems too dangerous for society. And Shigaraki has decided that the Heroes and justice system is a farce, and is out to destroy it.

Kinda fitting for a guy with his quirk - he either doesn’t destroy something, or destroys it completely. The moment he makes his decision, it’s fast and permanent.

For Shigaraki, murder is murder, destruction is destruction, violence is violence, no matter how you dress it up. That’s why he couldn’t see the difference between him and Stain. That’s why he can’t see that Bakugou, as aggressive and vicious as he is, still wants to be a good guy.

Now this is my take, but I think his mindset is: Because All Might can’t save everyone, he’s a fake, he’s trash; because everyone will say they condemn murder yet go about their lives carefree even though they know logically someone is out there getting killed, morality and justice is an illusion; because justice is so fragile and flimsy, I will expose it and destroy it.

Not in any goodwill or for a better society, mind you. He just hates it.

He also has no illusions about himself or his actions, he knows he’s evil.

Shigaraki is a lot more sarcastic and sardonic than usually portrayed in fanon. He’s very rude and can be foul mouthed, but the real insult comes from his tone and behavior. He condescendingly calls Eraserhead cool. He calls Stain the ‘Great Senpai of scoundrels’. He points out to Overhaul how a wakagashira/underboss like him should be more polite. Just about half of everything he says is dripping with mockery, and he’s very breezy and irreverent. So a bit less ‘I hate you, fuck off’, and more cheek.

Adding to that, if I’m reading my Japanese right, Shigaraki can change how he addresses people depending on the person and situation. His default speech is rude, but he’ll talk somewhat (barely) politely-ish if needed; it’s just it’s very obvious he’s not taking it seriously.

Related, I feel like Shigaraki says a lot of things he doesn’t really believe. He tries out concepts, half-heartedly, on a whim. There’s that infamous speech at USJ about Heroes and Villains both using violence - which does seem to have some semblance to the actual ‘two sides of the same coin’ that even Best Jeanist talks about.

And here’s him considering Stain’s effects on heroes, with gusto, before ditching it.

I know it’s Smash!, but here’s him reciting some sort of pseudo education philosophy he picked up somewhere??? to Kurogiri to get out of exercise.

He’s a total smartass

Of course, this brings up the question, is he genuine in his speech to Bakugou, or to Toga and Twice?

Like Echodrop notes, he can be in a good mood. He can be (seem?) happy, he can smile, he will acknowledge when someone does a good job of something.

Sure, it’s got a manic edge to it, it’s probably not coming from a place of good, fluffy, innocent feelings, but he can laugh, enjoy the moment, be psyched about something.

I really like this scene because he actually giggles a bit. He squeezes Midoriya, and he really does seem excited for a chat.

He’s quick to go back to being default cranky tho. Quick to enjoy, quick to get irked.

Shigaraki is a weirdo and I love him.

My boy is smart. Really, Shigaraki is smarter than he looks. In the Ultra Archive, his profile lists his intelligence as ‘A’, ranking him above most characters, including Midoriya. I get that Deku’s whole thing is being the strategizing main character, but Shigaraki’s just as analytical. Even the Smash! Comic points this out.

His room is filled with books, so either he reads a lot or he hoards them to look smart. I think it’s the former. Well, it’s not mutually exclusive, I should know.

He thinks and reflects and questions. He was super pissed about Stain, but he realized Stain was right and tried to figure out why. He went on a walk to calm down and just ruminate. He sought out Midoriya just to get second opinion. Afterwards, he quickly sees the bigger picture and realizes the issue is systemic and he’s gotta attack the structure. Of course, kinda shaky on the specific details and it’s not endgame long term, but still impressive.

There’s a lot of Villain!Deku fanfics - and I like them a lot! - that turns Deku into the criminal mastermind or makes him the brains behind Shigaraki’s operations. Which is fair, Deku could totally be one! And also a lot of fics where Shigaraki is dismissed, with everything he does being AFO’s machinations. Again, fair. But Canon Shigaraki is AFO’s successor and leads the League for a reason.

This also means, I think, that Shigaraki isn’t as clueless to the fact that All For One is manipulating him. This point is entirely debatable, though. All I have to back this is how Shigaraki wondered if he was lied to in the USJ.

Even tho he’s facepalm crusty boi neet, Shigaraki is still a very dangerous S-ranked villain. I feel like sometimes people forget this.

He’s not that childish. He can be immature, he’s still learning the ropes of being a supervillain, he’s got an irritable and sullen disposition, but he’s not a five-year-old. He’s also not completely unhinged.

When things don’t go his way, his first response usually isn’t to shriek or whine or immediately snap. He’s got a clear head and a good sense of what he can and can’t do. Kurogiri is down, All Might escaped their grasp, but Nomu’s still active? Cool, we got this. It’s only when Nomu gets team-rocket-ed that he panics. Stain stabs him? Doesn’t start a fight right there and then, asks Master for some Nomu, is patient enough to wait until he decides he really can’t stand Stain, then finally gives the go ahead for a rampage.

Shigaraki knew from the start he can’t handle All Might. That’s Nomu’s job. As much as he hates All Might, he doesn’t jump at the chance to kill the hero personally. He’s not ruled by impulse or easy distractions, not really. And he will back down if Kurogiri reasons with him - see accepting Stain as a party member, see letting Toga and Dabi live. And after he got his motivation, he’s been very restraint since.

He doesn’t immediately destroy his things in anger - we only see him destroy only few items pre-mall talk. He decays binoculars, a photo of Deku, maybe a newspaper, all quiet and deliberate. Kurogiri’s bar is intact and clean, despite being the long-time hang out spot of the destructive Shigaraki Tomura. Would he decay a controller after losing a game? Maybe, but also just as likely maybe not.

Shigaraki will complain and bitch and sulk and hold a grudge, tho, yeah. He will lose it after a series of stressors/things gone wrong. He can be moody, cruel and sadistic, bloodthirsty and mayhem-loving. But he’s got himself under control more often than not.

Finally, video games: My biggest pet peeve about portrayal of Shigaraki in fanfics: He’s super obsessed with video games, to the point that he plays them all day long, and he can’t stop using video game slang for everything - or so a lot of the fandom believes.

I’ve pointed out before that we’re more likely to see him reading the newspaper and we’ve never actually seen him use a console ever in manga or anime. True, he likens scenarios to games frequently, but not all the time - the USJ fight was when he did that the most, then in his other appearances only once or twice during the whole scene (Doesn’t want Stain as a ‘party member’, none at all when meeting Dabi or Toga and then at the mall, camp arc has him seeing himself playing a Sim instead of an RPG, calls All Might ‘last boss’ during the raid, then nothing for his next appearances). At least not out loud. As fun as it is to imagine him as a geeky gamer, and he is, but he does more than just that.

I think Shigaraki uses video games and media to create mental scripts for himself to understand/interact with the world, but it serves as a skeleton. He fleshes it out, always adding to that mental model to create a more complex one. He calls his change of strategy as playing a Sim game, but it’s a good analogy that works for him, and we see how layered his plan is - dealing a blow to UA that works whether the Vanguard succeed or not, kidnapping Bakugou and Ragdoll, in order to bring about the media and public criticism of UA/heroes, and had it not been for the raid, something would’ve happen to Bakugou that would’ve demoralized everyone.

He def is grounded in reality enough to know what he’s doing is more than just a game.

And that’s all I got for now! There might be a part two. idk, but I hope this was helpful!

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kiibearer-a · 5 years

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AND NOW FOR MY IN DEPTH REACTION POST TO KH3 IN ITS ENTIRETY:

( jokes on me I actually made this in depth )

What the absolute fuck was that. It’s not even meant in hostility, I just don’t at all get what any of that ending meant or what it was supposed to represent or support. I’ve spent all day thinking WORST CASE on what was possibly going to come of that ending. Was Sora going to die? Was Sora some how in relation with the Master of Masters, was Sora going to be Norted and made to fight everyone and it was their turn to fight against him—like all of these possible scenarios that could have been REMARKABLY worse than what we got. And frankly, I don’t even know what we got. I have no idea how to break that down and make anything from it, because this ENTIRE GAME just completely negated all the years of Sora’s journey in the span of two hours. There was just...so much unnecessary digging at all these holes that had been already been too deep that looking at this as a whole is just so exhausting because I don’t even know where to start. I can start by saying, none of this will probably change my interpretation of Sora or his motivations or his drive? It didn’t matter. The story absolutely did nothing to absolve a lot of the overarching and LOOMING impressions that it was giving, so, it just...doesn’t change Sora. WHICH HERES THE SCOOP ON SOMETHING I LITERALLY WAS PLANNING ON DOING THIS WEEK

( because I have no way to reorganize this, here begins the list of frustrations I guess : )

01. Sora’s resolution—So a big thing that really bothered me this game was this intense reminder that “Sora is nothing without everyone else”. Throughout the series as a whole, more specifically KH1, CoM and DDD, there are a lot of themes of this SCRUTINIZING “teasing” to Sora’s character that he is useless and incapable without the aide of others. Honestly, it’s more fair to say that Sora being the main character is whole heartedly an accident. It’s fair to call him dull, ordinary, unimpressive and unremarkable. But what captures so much of his character and WHY he is the main character is because he is all those things and that’s what makes him remarkably amazing to those around him. He exceeds every and all expectation because people think him incapable when he is profoundly capable, even by the thinnest of margins. His confidence only grows with others beside him. Sora is extraordinary because in every instance he faces, he overcomes the odds because he believes in how capable he is to solve it. He will do anything to fix a problem, he won’t stop until others are helped. And all of these things are also FLAWS. His flaws are his strengths because he’s learning how to grow from his mistakes and his failures. And from the previous settings of hearing people tell him how incapable he is because he’s not as good, not as tough or as smart—he grows because he’s trying to CHANGE to be better. And the same thing I have heard throughout the majority of this series is people telling him “Don’t ever change.” Sora has changed. He’s grown self-conscious, he’s anxious and hesitant. More reliant on others than himself. Because he’s been so stunted by this need to remain who he is, but unable to change and evolve from all the hurt and suffering he has endured and taken for others. And never got the chance to evolve from that AT ALL, this game. I was half expection with worlds like Tangled, and San Fransokyo, and the small hope of Moana that characters like Rapunzel, Hiro and Moana could show Sora that in these moments of weakness and incapability, just because you are alone or abandoned or scared and hurt, these things do not define who you are and who you are TO OTHERS. They test you to grow and change and believe in the way that you can make differences and learn from those mistakes and put downs. And Sora didn’t get that at all. 02. Kairi— First and foremost, I personally would want to apologize to every Kairi player there is because what Nomura did to her was awful. What has happened to Kairi this entire SEIRES, was awful and shameless and I’m just...really frustrated that I don’t have more sympathy to care for her the way I want to. She has been a bone for Sora to follow the whole time, she has been a fridge, she has been a set piece, a plot device, a plot foundation—all while never being able to control her own agency in the process. Every decision is made for her, and every decision she makes does not feel like her own. Her relationship with Sora feels so...stagnant despite all this pressure between their bond and their intertwined destinies. There is no foundation because we don’t know who the hell Kairi is. We don’t know what she likes, where she came from, what she wants because anything scripted will tell you “Sora”. And from her, Sora is her personality in these games. And it’s absolutely UNFAIR. The entire ending I sat there thinking, “Neat everyone is just...catching up like old friends, after you know, Sora seeing the one person he’s fought so hard to protect and keep safe just shatter in front of his eyes....AND NO ONE IS THE LEAST BIT CONCERNED, MUCH LESS SORA HIMSELF?” I felt Naminé had more people that cared about her than Kairi did, because in this strange pocket of tethers Kairi ONLY had Sora. She hardly interacted with Riku, or gave him the time of day, despite him also being a part of their friendship. She didn’t deserve ANY of that. She did not deserve to die to be Sora’s motivation for saving the world from darkness, and Sora shouldn’t have “died” at the expense of saving her. They have done enough for each other to prove their bonds and their ties that they didn’t need this self sacrifice to solidified what they meant to one another. Whatever the relationship between them, be it romantically inclined or not, they genuinely failed her. They failed to give Kairi the resolution she needed : which what to not be DEFINED by who Sora was to her.

03. Xenhanort— At this point I’ve fought them so much I don’t even care. I can genuinely say with @dawnbreaks as my witness, I did not die a SINGLE death this entire playthrough. Not once. There felt like little challenge, the stakes didn’t feel as severe as they maybe should have been and for all the work and effort anyone has put in to trying to understand what happened, and why we were fighting; there was no result satisfying that felt good enough to explain that. Why at the very end, did the organization members get agency and then were killed? Why at the last minute did Xehanort, a man HENOUS ENOUGH to spilt a boy apart and leave him for dead, kidnapper of several people who he in turn forced himself into vessels, a man PREPARED TO PURGE THE WORLD ANEW, suddenly changes at the presences of fwens and just STOPS. I get that “Oh this is a Disney title and we can’t have him going murder spree on everything”—LIKE ITS A TAD LATE, but wHY would you reform him. His actions are WHAT DEFINED HIM AS THE VILLAIN. He was cruel and uncaring, and intending to let everyone UNDERSTAND THE CASUALTY OF HIS SACRIFICE BEING NECESSARY. ...I hate when villains are shafted in their own cruelty because of a good triumphing evil. We know the difference and I’m sure the villain knows the difference in context. What makes a good villain is when their context can justify the reasoning behind what they do, it shows their motivations and their strive towards their goal ; often parallel to the hero. And most good villains don’t simply CHANGE because someone asks them not to. Otherwise why be a villain at all. 04. Sora’s Death ?— I love Sora. With all my heart and soul, I GENUINELY love him a lot. He has been a character who has been there for me through a lot of hard times, he’s been someone I aspire to be like and a character I have treasured DEARLY. At this point, I would have rather Sora stayed dead. At the first point in time when he ended up in the Final World, I would have rather that’s where he stayed. Aside from the fact that his story is becoming a dead horse beaten, sometimes death in stories happen. They are sad and upsetting and all around unfavourable, but his “death” was so...unnecessary. Much like Kairi’s. There was absolutely no reason for it to have happened to either of them, much less at the expense of EACH OTHER. It’s not romantic, it strengthens no bond and there was no WEIGHT behind either sacrifice. It was just to kill time. A brilliant example of a death made fair was Noctis. Noctis is another character who I truly love, who I enjoyed every step of his journey and in the end was absolutely devastated to lose. But his death MEANT something. Because I played an entire goddamn game that showed what he gave toward that sacrifice and how he went from a self-preserving child to a KING, who knew the sacrifice that was meant for not just HIS people but THE PEOPLE to survive. It was a death that was beautiful and tragic because it FUCKING MEANT SOMETHING TO ME, as a player, and watching Sora die for Kairi meant NOTHING. And that sounds so cruel and unfair, but its because she too died for nothing. She was not stopping Xehanort from anything. She was not a means to his end. She was not a driving force that could contain or deny his success. She was a girl who has and ONLY has been define by her relationship to Sora, and was used a pawn to motivate him, when he didn’t need it. And for Sora to do the exact same thing, after people who have fought themselves back from the brink for and with him, to let him just WALK away to retrieve her, and then just blink away, not only denies everything I did in this game. But it denies everything that Sora has done for her and that he’s meant to do for her. IN FACT, I plan on making a verse with the intention that Sora is dead. Because the idea of Sora even trading himself to restore her once sealing Kindgom Hearts is a far better outcome than just TRADING life tokens and waking up in a FFVX ripoff. I don’t understand what this game was trying to explain, narratively. Combat was fun. Seeing old characters rendered in the new engine was nice. Watching how more animated Sora was and over all his look and mannerisms and just following his journey again was comforting. But what did I do? And why. There was no point to anything that I just did in games prior, because all of it is gone in this one. And that’s really disappointing after waiting 13 years, to beat a game in five days.

#♛ . BE BACK WITH ICE CREAM / .ooc #//MAJOR KH3 SPOILERS #//KH3 spoilers #welp . here it is.#I am just...beyond words right now and like heres a lot of them #Seriously . please do not read this unless you've completed the game or have an understanding #i'd rather not be responsible for spoiling it #TDLR ; I'm probably gonna make a new verse in a couple days #my activity is coming back and I'm gonna get to things more proper and do some clean up #but like...good lord friends #what the heckie

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smokeybrand · 3 years

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Tomorrow Should Have Died

Eleven minutes, bro. Eleven f*cking minutes.

At least they commit to multiverse theory, even if it contradicts the entirety of their already established time travel rules.

How these cats just fly into Russia on a big ass cargo plane and not get shot down? This is 2022. Putin still hates us. This sh*t would cause a World War.

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thefortyeightlawsofpower-blog · 7 years

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LAW 8 : MAKE OTHER PEOPLE COME TO YOU—USE BAIT IF NECESSARY

JUDGEMENT

When you force the other person to act, you are the one in control. It is always better to make your opponent come to you, abandoning his own plans in the process. Lure him with fabulous gains—then attack. You hold the cards.

OBSERVANCE OF THE LAW

At the Congress of Vienna in 1814, the major powers of Europe gathered to carve up the remains of Napoleon’s fallen Empire. The city was full of gaiety and the balls were the most splendid in memory. Hovering over the proceedings, however, was the shadow of Napoleon himself. Instead of being executed or exiled far away, he had been sent to the island of Elba, not far from the coast of Italy.

Even imprisoned on an island, a man as bold and creative as Napoleon Bonaparte made everyone nervous. The Austrians plotted to kill him on Elba, but decided it was too risky. Alexander I, Russia’s temperamental czar, heightened the anxiety by throwing a fit during the congress when a part of Poland was denied him: “Beware, I shall loose the monster!” he threatened. Everyone knew he meant Napoleon. Of all the statesmen gathered in Vienna, only Talleyrand, Napoleon’s former foreign minister, seemed calm and unconcerned. It was as if he knew something the others did not.

Meanwhile, on the island of Elba, Napoleon’s life was a mockery of his previous glory. As Elba’s “king,” he had been allowed to form a court—there was a cook, a wardrobe mistress, an official pianist, and a handful of courtiers. All this was designed to humiliate Napoleon, and it seemed to work.

That winter, however, there occurred a series of events so strange and dramatic they might have been scripted in a play. Elba was surrounded by British ships, their cannons covering all possible exit points. Yet somehow, in broad daylight on 26 February 1815, a ship with nine hundred men on board picked up Napoleon and put to sea. The English gave chase but the ship got away. This almost impossible escape astonished the public throughout Europe, and terrified the statesmen at the Congress of Vienna.

Although it would have been safer to leave Europe, Napoleon not only chose to return to France, he raised the odds by marching on Paris with a tiny army, in hopes of recapturing the throne. His strategy worked—people of all classes threw themselves at his feet. An army under Marshal Ney sped from Paris to arrest him, but when the soldiers saw their beloved former leader, they changed sides. Napoleon was declared emperor again. Volunteers swelled the ranks of his new army. Delirium swept the country. In Paris, crowds went wild. The king who had replaced Napoleon fled the country.

For the next hundred days, Napoleon ruled France. Soon, however, the giddiness subsided. France was bankrupt, its resources nearly exhausted, and there was little Napoleon could do about this. At the Battle of Waterloo, in June of that year, he was finally defeated for good. This time his enemies had learned their lesson: They exiled him to the barren island of Saint Helena, off the west coast of Africa. There he had no more hope of escape.

Interpretation

Only years later did the facts of Napoleon’s dramatic escape from Elba come to light. Before he decided to attempt this bold move, visitors to his court had told him that he was more popular in France than ever, and that the country would embrace him again. One of these visitors was Austria’s General Roller, who convinced Napoleon that if he escaped, the European powers, England included, would welcome him back into power. Napoleon was tipped off that the English would let him go, and indeed his escape occurred in the middle of the afternoon, in full view of English spyglasses.

What Napoleon did not know was that there was a man behind it all, pulling the strings, and that this man was his former minister, Talleyrand. And Talleyrand was doing all this not to bring back the glory days but to crush Napoleon once and for all. Considering the emperor’s ambition unsettling to Europe’s stability, he had turned against him long ago. When Napoleon was exiled to Elba, Talleyrand had protested. Napoleon should be sent farther away, he argued, or Europe would never have peace. But no one listened.

Instead of pushing his opinion, Talleyrand bided his time. Working quietly, he eventually won over Castlereagh and Metternich, the foreign ministers of England and Austria.

Together these men baited Napoleon into escaping. Even Koller’s visit, to whisper the promise of glory in the exile’s ear, was part of the plan. Like a master cardplayer, Talleyrand figured everything out in advance. He knew Napoleon would fall into the trap he had set. He also foresaw that Napoleon would lead the country into a war, which, given France’s weakened condition, could only last a few months. One diplomat in Vienna, who understood that Talleyrand was behind it all, said, “He has set the house ablaze in order to save it from the plague.”

When I have laid bait for deer, I don’t shoot at the first doe that comes to sniff, but wait until the whole herd has gathered round.

Otto von Bismarck, 1815-1898

KEYS TO POWER

How many times has this scenario played itself out in history: An aggressive leader initiates a series of bold moves that begin by bringing him much power. Slowly, however, his power reaches a peak, and soon everything turns against him. His numerous enemies band together; trying to maintain his power, he exhausts himself going in this direction and that, and inevitably he collapses. The reason for this pattern is that the aggressive person is rarely in full control. He cannot see more than a couple of moves ahead, cannot see the consequences of this bold move or that one. Because he is constantly being forced to react to the moves of his ever-growing host of enemies, and to the unforeseen consequences of his own rash actions, his aggressive energy is turned against him.

In the realm of power, you must ask yourself, what is the point of chasing here and there, trying to solve problems and defeat my enemies, if I never feel in control? Why am I always having to react to events instead of directing them? The answer is simple: Your idea of power is wrong. You have mistaken aggressive action for effective action. And most often the most effective action is to stay back, keep calm, and let others be frustrated by the traps you lay for them, playing for long-term power rather than quick victory.

Remember: The essence of power is the ability to keep the initiative, to get others to react to your moves, to keep your opponent and those around you on the defensive. When you make other people come to you, you suddenly become the one controlling the situation. And the one who has control has power. Two things must happen to place you in this position: You yourself must learn to master your emotions, and never to be influenced by anger; meanwhile, however, you must play on people’s natural tendency to react angrily when pushed and baited. In the long run, the ability to make others come to you is a weapon far more powerful than any tool of aggression.

Study how Talleyrand, the master of the art, performed this delicate trick. First, he overcame the urge to try to convince his fellow statesmen that they needed to banish Napoleon far away. It is only natural to want to persuade people by pleading your case, imposing your will with words. But this often turns against you. Few of Talleyrand’s contemporaries believed Napoleon was still a threat, so that if he had spent a lot of energy trying to convince them, he would only have made himself look foolish. Instead, he held his tongue and his emotions in check. Most important of all, he laid Napoleon a sweet and irresistible trap. He knew the man’s weakness, his impetuosity, his need for glory and the love of the masses, and he played all this to perfection. When Napoleon went for the bait, there was no danger that he might succeed and turn the tables on Talleyrand, who better than anyone knew France’s depleted state. And even had Napoleon been able to overcome these difficulties, the likelihood of his success would have been greater were he able to choose his time and place of action. By setting the proper trap, Talleyrand took the time and place into his own hands.

All of us have only so much energy, and there is a moment when our energies are at their peak. When you make the other person come to you, he wears himself out, wasting his energy on the trip. In the year 1905, Russia and Japan were at war. The Japanese had only recently begun to modernize their warships, so that the Russians had a stronger navy, but by spreading false information the Japanese marshal Togo Heihachiro baited the Russians into leaving their docks in the Baltic Sea, making them believe they could wipe out the Japanese fleet in one swift attack. The Russian fleet could not reach Japan by the quickest route—through the Strait of Gibraltar and then the Suez Canal into the Indian Ocean—because these were controlled by the British, and Japan was an ally of Great Britain. They had to go around the Cape of Good Hope, at the southern tip of Africa, adding over more than six thousand miles to the voyage. Once the fleet passed the Cape, the Japanese spread another false story: They were sailing to launch a counterattack. So the Russians made the entire journey to Japan on combat alert. By the time they arrived, their seamen were tense, exhausted, and overworked, while the Japanese had been waiting at their ease. Despite the odds and their lack of experience in modern naval warfare, the Japanese crushed the Russians.

One added benefit of making the opponent come to you, as the Japanese discovered with the Russians, is that it forces him to operate in your territory. Being on hostile ground will make him nervous and often he will rush his actions and make mistakes. For negotiations or meetings, it is always wise to lure others into your territory, or the territory of your choice. You have your bearings, while they see nothing familiar and are subtly placed on the defensive.

Manipulation is a dangerous game. Once someone suspects he is being manipulated, it becomes harder and harder to control him. But when you make your opponent come to you, you create the illusion that he is controlling the situation. He does not feel the strings that pull him, just as Napoleon imagined that he himself was the master of his daring escape and return to power.

Everything depends on the sweetness of your bait. If your trap is attractive enough, the turbulence of your enemies’ emotions and desires will blind them to reality. The greedier they become, the more they can be led around.

The great nineteenth-century robber baron Daniel Drew was a master at playing the stock market. When he wanted a particular stock to be bought or sold, driving prices up or down, he rarely resorted to the direct approach. One of his tricks was to hurry through an exclusive club near Wall Street, obviously on his way to the stock exchange, and to pull out his customary red bandanna to wipe his perspiring brow. A slip of paper would fall from this bandanna that he would pretend not to notice. The club’s members were always trying to foresee Drew’s moves, and they would pounce on the paper, which invariably seemed to contain an inside tip on a stock. Word would spread, and members would buy or sell the stock in droves, playing perfectly into Drew’s hands.

If you can get other people to dig their own graves, why sweat yourself? Pickpockets work this to perfection. The key to picking a pocket is knowing which pocket contains the wallet. Experienced pickpockets often ply their trade in train stations and other places where there is a clearly marked sign reading BEWARE OF PICKPOCKETS. Passersby seeing the sign invariably feel for their wallet to make sure it is still there. For the watching pickpockets, this is like shooting fish in a barrel. Pickpockets have even been known to place their own BEWARE OF PICKPOCKETS signs to ensure their success.

When you are making people come to you, it is sometimes better to let them know you are forcing their hand. You give up deception for overt manipulation. The psychological ramifications are profound: The person who makes others come to him appears powerful, and demands respect.

Filippo Brunelleschi, the great Renaissance artist and architect, was a great practitioner of the art of making others come to him as a sign of his power. On one occasion he had been engaged to repair the dome of the Santa Maria del Fiore cathedral in Florence. The commission was important and prestigious. But when the city officials hired a second man, Lorenzo Ghiberti, to work with Brunelleschi, the great artist brooded in secret. He knew that Ghiberti had gotten the job through his connections, and that he would do none of the work and get half the credit. At a critical moment of the construction, then, Brunelleschi suddenly developed a mysterious illness. He had to stop work, but pointed out to city officials that they had hired Ghiberti, who should have been able to continue the work on his own. Soon it became clear that Ghiberti was useless and the officials came begging to Brunelleschi. He ignored them, insisting that Ghiberti should finish the project, until finally they realized the problem: They fired Ghiberti.

By some miracle, Brunelleschi recovered within days. He did not have to throw a tantrum or make a fool of himself; he simply practiced the art of “making others come to you.”

If on one occasion you make it a point of dignity that others must come to you and you succeed, they will continue to do so even after you stop trying.

Image: The Honeyed Bear Trap. The bear hunter does not chase his prey; a bear that knows it is hunted is nearly impossible to catch and is fero cious if cornered. Instead, the hunter lays traps baited with honey. He does not exhaust himself and risk his life in pursuit. He baits, then waits.

Authority: Good warriors make others come to them, and do not go to others. This is the principle of emptiness and fullness of others and self. When you induce opponents to come to you, then their force is always empty; as long as you do not go to them, your force is always full. Attacking emptiness with fullness is like throwing stones on eggs. (Zhang Yu, eleventh-century commentator on The Art of War)

REVERSAL

Although it is generally the wiser policy to make others exhaust themselves chasing you, there are opposite cases where striking suddenly and aggressively at the enemy so demoralizes him that his energies sink. Instead of making others come to you, you go to them, force the issue, take the lead. Fast attack can be an awesome weapon, for it forces the other person to react without the time to think or plan. With no time to think, people make errors of judgment, and are thrown on the defensive. This tactic is the obverse of waiting and baiting, but it serves the same function: You make your enemy respond on your terms.

Men like Cesare Borgia and Napoleon used the element of speed to intimidate and control. A rapid and unforeseen move is terrifying and demoralizing. You must choose your tactics depending on the situation. If you have time on your side, and know that you and your enemies are at least at equal strength, then deplete their strength by making them come to you. If time is against you—your enemies are weaker, and waiting will only give them the chance to recover—give them no such chance. Strike quickly and they have nowhere to go. As the boxer Joe Louis put it, “He can run, but he can’t hide.”

#mgtow #advice #the art of war #business #men #male #masculine #dating #seduction #psychology #sociology #philosoraptor #social dynamics

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kalinara · 7 years

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For each, Rip, Phil, Brainwashed!Rip - boundaries. For each, Rip, Phil, Brainwahsed!Rip - control. For each, Rip, Phil, Brainwashed!Rip - conscience. Rip - duty. Rip - pleasure. Rip - perfection. Rip - chaos. Rip - time. Rip - second chances (or more) for himself. Rip - blind. Rip - hopeless. Rip - inspired. Rip - Waverider. Rip - aberrations, especially not a problem. Rip - if he knew what actually went on when he was gone. Rip - intimidation. Rip - courage. Rip - self.

So, more headcanons/meta! These are some lovely prompts.

For each, Rip, Phil, Brainwashed!Rip - boundaries.

I don’t really have separate headcanons about boundaries for all three aspects of Rip’s character, but I do have some thoughts about the concept in general:

The thing that strikes me about Rip’s arc in season two is how much of it involves repeated violation. There’s Rip’s transformation into Phil, which at least was something that he chose to do himself, even if the circumstances weren’t ideal. But then poor Phil spent pretty much all of Raiders getting his privacy and life invaded by Rip’s well-meaning team: his script was stolen, his belongings stolen, he was falsely arrested, and then kidnapped himself by his team. And then, of course, he was kidnapped by the Legion: tortured, had a tooth extracted, was made to wear a hideous suit, and then had his mind and memories invaded and altered.

Evil!Rip is a walking violation of the good Rip’s boundaries of course. But one thing that stands out to me is how the team ends up restoring good Rip. They use Cognitive Intrusion, something that Mick remembers being used in his own violation when he was Chronos. And Gideon makes a point of establishing that Rip did not support the use of the device, considering it barbaric. And the crew use it. They don’t really have a choice, of course, and I don’t blame them for it. But it would have been nice to see more acknowledgment by the show that Rip is basically saved from mind-rape by way of another mind-rape.

For each, Rip, Phil, Brainwashed!Rip - control.

That’s an interesting concept when it comes to Rip Hunter. I don’t think Rip is the sort of person who actively thinks in terms of control. He tends to try to control himself. He masks his reactions, hides his feelings and vulnerabilities, refuses to yield to capture or manipulation, but he seems absolutely opposed to trying to exert any sort of control over the people around him. I mean, I’ve said this before, but it’s still notable: we could see by the PILOT that Rip had no real control over his team. But he never takes any real steps to establish any kind of dominance. It’s not like he didn’t have tools to allow him to try: he had the advanced technology, multiple stun devices, mastery of the ship, an AI who was loyal to him only. At worst case scenario, he could have ditched them back home. Given the dire stakes of the mission, it would have been hard to blame him. But he never actually does.

The worst Rip ever does is lecture them a little, and then he sets them loose to wreak havoc again.

Phil on the other hand never has the opportunity for any sort of control over anything. Not even himself. He basically spends all of Raiders and Legion being manhandled by his team or his enemies. He doesn’t have his memory, he doesn’t have his experiences. He doesn’t have his composure or his self-control. He’s very open with his fear and his pain and his vulnerability.

Evil!Rip is an interesting contrast of course, because he has no real control over himself. He has composure, only because he doesn’t seem to feel much of anything. He’s being ordered about by Eobard and Dahrk. He does seem willing to disobey those orders when it suits him (for example, he did not murder every member of his team), but there’s a difference between disobedience and freedom. However, we see many instances of Evil!Rip exerting control over other people: McNider’s mind control devices, for example. Rip uses them to control the minds of an entire (small) army. Gideon’s overrides. Something that Rip himself would have had access to, but no apparent desire to use (he shut Gideon down to use the Time Drive, for example, when it might have been more advantageous just to overrule her, so she’d be able to remain active and guard the ship while he was gone.)

It’s an interesting comparison really: Rip in his right mind has self control but no inclination to control others. Phil Gasmer has no control at all. While Evil!Rip has no control over himself, but continually attempts (and briefly succeeds) to exert his control over other people.

For each, Rip, Phil, Brainwashed!Rip - conscience.

Oh, now that makes for another interesting layered comparison. We know Rip has a conscience. We know how haunted he is by guilt and grief. We’ve seen how personally he takes failure, especially the loss of people on his team. We’ve seen him make repeated offers to take the team home throughout the first season. We’ve seen his guilty vow to Martin when it looked like he might lose Clarissa. We’ve seen his reaction to Carter’s death, and Snart’s.

Phil, in contrast, has no baggage to feel guilty about. But he does seem to feel a responsibility to people. He tries to protect George Lucas after all. And he puts himself in danger to try to save the team that he doesn’t even remember.

Evil!Rip on the other hand doesn’t seem have any conscience. But then, he doesn’t seem to have much of anything to base a conscience on. No love, no anger, even. No sense of duty or responsibility. Eobard’s taken all that away with his alterations.

Of course, now that Rip’s back to himself, he’s got his conscience back too. And a whole new mass of guilt to haunt him.

Rip - duty.

Sadly, I think, duty is all Rip thinks he has left. We’ve seen how goal oriented he is, how he focuses on his mission to the exclusion of almost anything else. I suspect that’s what kept him going while he lost his family and his home and everything else. And we’ve seen how he tends to react once his missions are over. The first time, he tried to fly into the sun. The second, he slinks off in the jump ship for parts unknown.

In a lot of ways, this whole Bureau development isn’t surprising. Rip is a Time Master after all. The last of them, really. And that at this point in time, that title is all he has left. The team logistically can’t police the whole of time, so there’s going to need to be something else in place. Rip needs there to be something else in place, so he has something to serve again.

Rip - pleasure.

Okay, so a headcanon about pleasure. I think ultimately the problem that Rip has is that he can’t really allow himself to indulge in pleasure. Simple creature comforts are one thing (though he’s never seemed terribly good at those either), but I’m talking about finding true joy and comfort.

We don’t know what Rip was like before his losses destroyed him, but I think we can draw certain conclusions from the Waverider itself. He has his collections: his books and artifacts. Clothes and music. We can assume that at one point in time he drew sincere pleasure from them. But that’s not something we’ve really seen. (Well, aside from one jelly bean.)

I think the problem is that Rip is the sort of man who would see moments of happiness and comfort as a betrayal of the family he lost. And I think that if he does indulge briefly in a human moment of comfort or pleasure, it’s going to be ruined by the realization that as happy as he is at this moment: they are still gone.

This is something that eventually he will be able to move past, but I don’t think he’s really there yet.

Rip - perfection.

Perfection is a funny concept. It must be an even funnier concept to a time traveler, who gets to witness both extreme wonders and extreme tragedies. It would be so tempting to try to fix things. Imagine the people that you could save and the atrocities that you could stop.

But you can’t. God knows what would happen if you tried.

So I think that, as a time traveler, you have to be able to accept that there is no such thing as perfection. You might be able to save some individuals, but the greater tragedy has to exist.

Perhaps that’s why, in the end, he’s so willing to take the Legends as they are. Because while he may hold himself to a very high standard, he has to be ready to accept that there are things he can not, MAY NOT, change.

Rip - chaos.

Rip is the sort of man who’d never admit it, but I think he is drawn to and thrives in chaos. The Time Masters are such a stratified, orderly society, and that’s formed a lot of how Rip presents himself.

But Rip himself is a profoundly chaotic individual, his life is chaotic, when he had the choice he recruited chaotic people, and his personal motto is “because, fuck you.” It’s just hard to tell, because he’s British. :-P

Rip - time.

It is oddly difficult to come up with a headcanon involving the concept of time. I think it’s probably an even more complex idea for time travelers than it is for us.

…especially when we’re trying to deal with the decidedly inconsistent rules for time travel that DC comics and Legends of Tomorrow give us.

I think maybe I’ll go with this: you know how people say that certain arctic people have hundreds of words for snow? I think the Time Masters have hundreds of words/concepts for time. For example, I bet there’s a word for how time passes for time travelers, like how you can age a year while traveling back in time. I bet there’s a word for how time passes outside of time, like, for example Vanishing Point, which somehow exists “outside of time” but clearly has a “before” and “after” for the people within it.

I’d imagine a Time Master’s dictionary would be really interesting. As long as you had enough Tylenol.

Rip - second chances (or more) for himself.

It’s funny, because in a certain way, the show itself is Rip’s attempt at a second chance. It’s a second chance (or more) to get at Savage and save his family. It’s a second chance to find a makeshift family. A second chance to be a time master.

But something always gets in the way: he succeeds against Savage but his family is still gone. The Legends have become a makeshift family, but without him. And the attempts to continue with the Time Masters’ mission have led a dead shogun, a surprise daughter, and dinosaurs in LA.

But Rip is a survivor at heart, and as long as he lives, he’ll likely keep trying. Perhaps, at one point, he will succeed.

Rip - blind.

Sometimes I think about Druce’s reveal in Destiny, and how that must have hit Rip hard. I think that he was able to accept that the Time Masters were corrupt. I think that he might have even been able to, intellectually, understand their alliance with Savage. Though he’d never agree. But he learned at that moment that Druce hadn’t just chosen to side with the man who’d murdered his family. The Time Masters, DRUCE, had planned it.

Miranda and Jonas weren’t collateral damage. They weren’t even revenge against Rip himself. They were sacrificial victims. Chosen by the closest thing that either Miranda or Rip had to a family.

It was obvious in retrospect. There were so many signs that the Time Masters were evil. But Rip, understandably, didn’t see them. How could he? Who could imagine that the people who raised them could do this?

What else did the Time Masters lie about? What else didn’t Rip see?

I’d imagine those questions will haunt Rip for a very very long time.

Rip - hopeless.

One of the things that always strikes me when rewatching season one, is how rarely Rip talks about actually SAVING his family. The TEAM often talk about saving them, but Rip usually uses terms like “avenging.” When I rewatch the season, I get the very strong impression that for most of the season Rip genuinely had no hope that he would actually succeed in saving them. But he had to try.

Until River of Time, when Rip had Vandal Savage locked in his brig. A Vandal Savage who had not yet killed his family. I think that’s why Rip acted so erratically throughout the entire episode. That’s why he pushed them so hard, so foolishly. That’s why he endangered Jax. Because for the first time, in a long time, he had a chance to get his wife and child back.

Only to have that chance snatched away by the Time Masters themselves. Really, it’s no wonder that Vanishing Point burned.

Rip - inspired.

I headcanon that, even though it was undone, on some level JRR Tolkien still remembers seeing Rip Hunter give that beautiful speech to the troops during World War One. He doesn’t remember the words, but he remembers how he felt in that moment.

Years later, when he writes Aragorn’s speech, he channels that emotion into his writing. He uses his own words, to find and inspire that feeling in his readers. (The similarities of the speeches are a genuine coincidence.)

Rip - Waverider

Rip has piloted the Waverider for thirteen years. And in those thirteen years, it has been both transport and home.

I headcanon that Miranda and Jonas’s life in Whitechapel was always meant to be temporary. The rigors of time travel, the physical strain, would have been very traumatic for a small child. But I think they’d always planned that once Jonas was a little older, they would have joined him.

Perhaps the Time Masters would have accepted them as Rip’s crew. What difference would it make as long as Rip completed his mission? (I imagine Druce promised to advocate for them). And if they weren’t accepted, then Rip would go rogue.

Sadly, they never got that chance.

Rip - aberrations, especially not a problem.

I’m not entirely sure what this one means. But I don’t think Rip will have that much of an issue with the existence of Lily Stein. As time travel mishaps go, a sudden retconned child can’t be the worst thing he’s ever encountered. I suspect that once a quick check revealed that Lily wasn’t going to cause some sort of great cataclysm, then he’d just shrug and go with it.

(Honestly, even if Lily was a bigger problem, I think Rip would look for a solution that still allowed her to exist. Rip knows what it’s like to lose a child, he’d never want that for Martin.)

With this crew, I’d imagine he’d expected something worse.

Rip - if he knew what actually went on when he was gone.

Hah, I can just imagine. That poor, poor overstressed guy. On the other hand, it’d be a lot harder for him to convince himself that the team no longer needed him.

Rip - intimidation.

Okay, well, we know that Rip is not very easy to intimidate. We also know that Rip is not terribly intimidating either. This has led to a lot of comedic and less comedic encounters, I’m sure.

Let’s just say there’s a reason he’s started bringing a stunner when he meets new people. :-)

Rip - courage

I like to imagine that when Jonah Hex and Rip Hunter met, it was when whatever Rip’s original mission was went straight to hell. So Jonah comes riding in to see this tiny, probably-jailbait Englishman who barely looks like he could lift a gun, let alone shoot it, surrounded by a bunch of ornery cowboy types.

Jonah’s not the sort to let some poor city-slicker get pulverized, but it probably is a little weird that this kid looks more bored and snooty than he does scared. Later, he learns that Rip isn’t so much brave as he is an asshole, but first impressions count.

Rip - self.

That’s a good concept to end a headcanon/meta storm with, I think.

It’s also something that’s incredibly complicated. I’d mentioned in one of my previous headcanon posts that I think Rip’s self-image is pretty heavily reliant the roles he plays for other people.

I’m not sure what image he has of himself at this time. I doubt it’s anything good. A failed father, a failed husband, a failed Time Master, and a failed Legend.

Maybe the Bureau will give him another chance to make something good.

(Until it goes to hell on him again.)

#Anonymous #rip hunter #legends of tomorrow #headcanon storm #the last one is kind of depressing

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milady-milord-lj · 7 years

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Community Re-Watch Season 1: Debate 109

Community Re-Watch: Season 1 Hello everyone! Sorry about the delay. A large part of why it's been so long is because I was getting my ducks in a row for a Master's degree program. The other reason? Doing two of these a week eats up a lot of time. Transcribing is hard, y'all! So, I'll do better, but I really can only do one of these a week. If I can do two, I'll post two. But don't despair! Because this week is "Debate 109"! So, shipper-y goodness for all! C'mon in and play!

Debate 109 Commentary by Dan Harmon, Joel McHale, Alison Brie, and Joe Russo Joel makes a joke about the fact that Alison is not wearing any pants to do the commentary. Alison counters that she’s wearing shorts. Joel complains he can’t see them because they’re so short. Alison jokes that she enjoys doing commentaries half-nude. Dan reads a Twitter question, “Did you know it would be so awesome when you had them [Jeff and Annie] kiss or was it an accident?” Dan says that they kind of knew going in. Joe adds that this is the episode that sent the show down the path to “Pascal’s Triangle Revisited.” Alison says that this episode marks a pivotal moment in Annie’s life (side note: which is kind of sad when you think about it). Joe agrees, and says that Jeff and Annie have interesting chemistry. He quotes something that he read online that states that what makes Annie “attractive” in this scenario is that she is Jeff’s opposite. Joel and Alison go “huh” at that. Dan jokes that he thought it was because of Annie’s Boobs (not the monkey). (Side note: Really, Dan? REALLY?) Joel de-escalates and says that he thought it was because of all the viral Jeff/Annie shipper videos that started cropping up after the episode. Alison says that Gillian was the one that broke the news to her that she’d be kissing Joel. She initially thought Gillian was joking...until she read the script. Abed’s Community College Chronicles cast is made up of people from Channel 101, except for “Pierce,” who is actually played by Chevy’s stand-in, John. John apparently has been Chevy’s stand-in for years. During the scene where Annie, Professor Whitman, and Dean Pelton gang up on Jeff to get him to agree to the debate, Joel remarks that the sheer amount of improve going on between Jim Rash and John Michael Higgins is incredible. Alison adds that this episode was the most fun for her because of Rash and Higgins, especially since she was standing between them while standing on the debate stage as the two of them kept feeding off of each other for the entire day. Joel adds that it was really funny. Jeff’s fakeout as he attempts to escape was Joel’s idea. Neither he nor Alison thought that it would make it into the final cut. Joel says that it was the best “juke” that he ever pulled on anyone, including the times he played basketball and football. Both Joe and Joel tell Dan that they hope that Higgins will be back for S2 (spoiler alert: he doesn’t). Although Higgins was part of this episode, apparently getting him for the episode was not a sure thing. Joe gives props to Chevy because he does every stunt and pratfall himself. Alison adds that Chevy will often suggest it if there isn’t one in the script. Joe points to the moment when Chevy stumbles into the drum set and adds, “That shit hurts!” Dan says the Pierce-Britta stop smoking through hypnosis storyline is based on a true story. Rob Schrab (whom Dan calls his occasional writing partner in this commentary) had “the world’s worst hypnotherapist” (no word on why Rob was seeing one). At one point, the hypnotherapist fell over and hurt his leg, but Rob didn’t want to hurt the guy’s confidence. So, he pretended to stay hypnotized because he felt so sorry for the guy. Joel remarks that Chevy is often stiff in the morning. He adds that it’s no wonder because Chevy’s been doing pratfalls for years. Dan adds that it’s roughly 20 years. Joe remarks that Chevy doesn’t use any padding or protective gear when he does it. Alison recalls a scene (which is in the outtakes) where Chevy falls backwards while seated in a chair and Gillian screams because she was taken by surprise (it wasn’t in the script). She adds that everyone thought Chevy really fell (as opposed to doing a pratfall…which is what it was). “We were terrified,” Alison says. In the scene where the Study Group confront Abed, Joel remarks that there was a big debate about his shirt because the socks had to match the shirt. Dan says he was mad about the joke because Jeff was supposed to protest that he wasn’t vain and then put his foot up on the table to reveal the matching sock. That little bit was cut for time. The debate portions of the show were shot over three days in a high school in Hollywood. Alison says that it was supposed to be a day-and-a-half, but there was a shooting at the school and the cast and crew were on lock-down in the gymnasium. Joe talks about how Simmons represents the depths to which Jeff has fallen. Simmons is the quintessential antagonist for a guy like Jeff, because he snotty, arrogant, and intelligent. There was some talk about bringing Simmons back for S2 (which obviously didn’t happen) and Simmons was supposed to be a love interest for Annie. Alison mentions that in this episode there was a subplot where Annie is obviously attracted to Simmons in a love-hate-he’s-so-sexy kind of way. Joe says that got toned down a lot in the final cut (i.e., as Alison notes, “it got cut”) because it got too confusing/complicated and because the chemistry between Alison and Joel in the episode worked out so well. Joel’s reaction to “the kiss” at the end of the episode was actually a set-based discovery (My reaction: Ummm, so you didn’t expect it? That’s…huh.). Cue Alison teasing Joel, resulting in Joel mumbling about “it’s called acting” and accusing Alison of eating an onion sandwich before shooting the kissing scene. Alison denies the onion sandwich but cops to wearing lip plumper. Joel says he thought her lips wore swollen because she was suffering from some kind of outbreak. Dan says the Jeff’s attempt at flirting with the blonde debate judge was to give the audience some insight in who Jeff used to be and what he did that made him “blow up the world.” Dan finds it interesting to watch Jeff pull out his old tricks only to see him fail, not because he’s necessarily doing something wrong, but because he’s not playing by the rules in the world he’s currently inhabiting. You can picture Jeff pulling these stunts in a courtroom and getting someone off on a DUI, but in a world of nerds, Type A personalities, teachers, judges, and coaches, Jeff has to humble himself, shut up, and actually do the work. Joel adds, “You need to debate.” Dan says, “No, you have to make out with Alison Brie. Otherwise, you’re not going to…” Alison jumps in, “…win. You’re not going to win. It’s just a good lesson in life.” (Side note: It’s at this point that I suspect Alison’s enjoying poking the bear — the bear in this case being Joel — a little too much.) Joel says that he’s been emailed by a number of church groups that show this episode to students (Side note: He’s trying not to laugh as he says this), because of the whole “is man evil” debate. Everyone’s really surprised by that. Joel decides to poke back with, “And the church is a really big fan of Alison.” Dan says that he took his hands off the script for this episode. Everyone gets distracted by the entrance of the gay basketball team. Joe says it was a tricky joke. Dan says that he had an “oh, c’mon man, for real” reaction when he saw it in the edit bay. He comments that if it was him, he'd have the basketball team be really awesome, like doing these amazing trick shots and dunks. Joel agrees with Dan. Dan says he took a step back on this episode because he was overworked and he was irritating writers/production because he was nitpicking everything. Dan says that he decided at one point during production of the episode that he’d loosen his grip, In short, he says, he passively-aggressively boycotted the episode. However, the episode turned out great, which (he jokes) “was a slap in the face to me.” Dan says when he sat in the edit bay with Joe, he was complaining that he said he wasn’t going to be that involved and then when he saw the gay basketball team he got sucked into a debate with Joe about it. Like how gay should the basketball team be, and other nitpicky stuff around the gay basketball team joke. Dan remarks that the hallway confrontation between Simmons and Jeff and Annie was the only thing people had for a long time to draw on to make their Jeff/Annie shipping videos, aside from the limited shots of Jeff and Annie looking at each other. Joe states that the vidders did a damn fine job with what limited footage they had. Dan and Alison agree. Joel says that he feels sorry of Yvette Nicole Brown because she has to wear so many wigs on the show. All of her wigs are named “Shirley.” Alison starts laughing when she sees Abed’s video where Shirley is running from a werewolf right by a kissing Jeff and Annie. Alison remarks that this episode spawned the running joke in the cast of “I’ma gonna die by werewolf.” She also says that she loves the cheap Annie wig on Annie’s fictional counterpart. Joe says the study room scene between Jeff and Annie came out of a conversation (he doesn’t remember who with). Joel jokes that he’s pretty sure that everyone conspired to take as long as they could shooting this scene. Dan says that they should’ve seen the editor’s cut of the scene. Alison says she remembers a lot of very specific conversations about her boobs. Joe says the study room scene was actually re-written on the set. The scene as originally written moved too fast, so the re-write slowed it down. He adds that a lot of the chemistry between Joel and Alison was basically being discovered during the course of the episode, which was another driver behind the rewrite. Dan admits that he does love the episode. During the part where Annie leans over Jeff, Joel says, “The crew had never been more quiet and concentrated.” Alison said they kept doing it over and over again. Joel adds that no one was trying to hurry up the process and telling them they had to get moving on to the next set-up. Dan says there was one cut where there was practically a close-up of Alison’s cleavage and Joel basically looking practically down her shirt doing a double-take. Alison says that for all the joking they’re doing, there was actually a lot of conversation and how she needed to stand and her placement at Joel’s shoulder and how close she needed to be standing. Meanwhile, back in the Britta-Pierce storyline… The second hypnotherapy scene was actually stolen from the previous scene. They changed the color of the shirt Gillian was wearing in editing to make it look like the whole thing was happening on a different day. Everyone is impressed with Chevy’s “slow” pratfall in this scene. Joe says that at first Chevy wasn’t sure how to do it, so he told Joe where to put the drum and the instruments and said that he’d figure it out as they went. Back at the debate… With regards to potentially bringing Simmons back (which didn’t happen), Dan says that it’s important to write up to the characters, don’t let there be real villains. They can be villains to each other, depending on their circumstances, but if they bring back Simmons they have to break the rule that he’s a villain. He’s not just an asshole. There’s a reason why he’s an asshole, so the audience understands what it’s like to be that guy. Joe asks if Troy tearing up at Simmon’s speech was the point where they latched on to “When Donald is crying it’s hilarious.” Dan doesn’t really answer, but he says that NBC gave him notes that they needed to guard Troy’s football masculinity, which evoked a “give me a break” response from him. Joel jokes that there must be some adept network executive saying, “Tell Dan to do this and he will do the opposite.” Alison says the debate montage was shot weeks later. They were standing in a crazy rig that involved ladder, a chair, and a platform. Joe says that’s because the high school location in Hollywood where they shot the scenes was crazy expensive so they couldn’t shoot it where they had the wide shots of the debate. So the debate snippets were shot in very tight close-ups against a backdrop on the Paramount sound stage. Joel asks why they had to shoot in the rig they had, and Joe says it was because they needed a very specific perspective on the character’s faces to make it work. The point where Jeff trails off with “like great seeeeeee….” was an on-set joke by Joel. Joe remarks that it was part of the great chemistry they were uncovering in the episode and they just wanted to keep playing with it. Joe says the whole closing bit starting with Simmons revving his wheelchair and ending with Jeff and Annie kissing was tricky, largely because they didn’t know if it would come across as hilarious or ridiculous. Joe continues and says that what made filming S1 so much fun is that everyone was experimenting and adventurous about trying different things and seeing how far they could push the edges. Joel and Alison start cracking up about Simmons flying out of his chair. Dan says the bit where Simmons risks himself makes him not a villain because he’s so dedicated to winning. Joe says the use of “Home” by Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeroes was “genius.” Alison says that she hears the song everywhere now and she credits the episode for that. Joe credits editor Peter Ellis for pulling the song out for the closing scenes. Alison points out Jeff’s “look” after the kiss and says “good acting!” The wrap-ups at the end of the episode were another on-set re-write. Dan says the dovetailing of all the storylines in the episode was brilliant. Joe says the various cross conversations between the non-Jeff-and-Annie members of the study group was supposed to take place in the stands, but they had been kicked out of the gymnasium and had to shoot in the hallways. Also, Joel had to leave the set so he could work on The Soup (which Joel completely forgot). The closing scene between Jeff and Annie was actually shot later and was a last-minute add-on to the episode. Alison likes the head pat. Joe says that even the Jeff-Annie closing scene they were discovering the chemistry between Jeff and Annie and what worked about it. Joe says they all felt they needed a button on the episode to touch on their chemistry one more time, which is why the head pat added at the last minute.

#jeff x annie

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oumakokichi · 7 years

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This little detail in chapter 5 has been on my mind and was wondering what your thoughts on it were. Before laying down ontop of Momota's jacket on the press, Ouma takes his shirt and scarf off, but was that truely necessary? His top wasn't the most baggy of clothes (if anything those things on his pants or hair would more likely hang out from underneath the press). Could the reason he took off the shirt and had Momota flush it be so someone would find that clue? Or was this a simple error?

Thank you so much for asking this! There’s still a lot Iwant to talk about with Chapter 5, and answering this question kind of requiresgoing into detail once again about how incredibly smart Ouma is.

The short answer is that absolutely, 100%, yes, I believe heleft those clues on purpose. There’s very little with Ouma that’s seldom leftup to chance or accident. If Komaeda is a character who throws caution to thewind and allows chance into his plans every single time because he knows luckis on his side, Ouma is a character with almost no luck whatsoever wholiterally has to create his own luck in any scenario, and doesn’t take almostany risks at all unless there’s a 99.9% chance he’s going to win, or unless hedoesn’t have any choice but to take arisk.

Having gone through Chapters 5 and 6 very carefully, I wantto go back to a statement I said in one of my first meta posts, about how Ithink Ouma is the smartest character in the entirety of ndrv3. Not only do Istill believe this to be true, but having picked through the clues and hintsthat Ouma leaves for the group in the final chapter, I think this is truer thanever. The answer to “how smart is Ouma?” is “way, way too smart.”

Heavy, heavy spoilers will be under the read more, so please only read if you’re comfortable with that!

I’m not saying this as a justification of the things he’sdone or just because I like him as a character. I’m not saying anyone has tolike him, because he’s still a flawed character who does horrible things inorder to accomplish a well-intentioned objective, and it’s still perfectly okayto dislike him for those flaws and the things he does. What I want to conveywith this is simply that Ouma is not a character motivated by either malice orchaos, but that he is a master strategist, and that his every move is extremelyplanned and calculated.

There’s really no denying the fact when looking at the laterchapters that Ouma was a genius in the most literal sense of the word, and thatfrom a strategic standpoint, he was miles ahead of the other characters.

The reason I can’t think of Ouma’s hints and clues inChapter 5 as anything accidental is precisely because Momota seems to reach theconclusion by the end of the trial that even if they do go into the voting timewith the Exisal still unopened (leaving the catbox closed, in other words),Monokuma is already relatively sure of Saihara’s original (and correct) theory:that Ouma is dead, that Momota himself is the culprit and the one sitting inthe Exisal, and that the camcorder video was “edited” by stopping both thecamcorder and the press at the exact same time and pulling a culprit-victimswitch when the press was obscuring the body.

With Monokuma willing to take a bet on the “reasoning of aSHSL Detective,” as he himself puts it, there inevitably rose the risk of asituation in which all the rest of the group votes on the wrong answer (Ouma asthe culprit, Momota as the victim) like Saihara asked them to at the end, butMonokuma himself still votes on the right answer. And in that case it becomesimpossible to prove that Monokuma “didn’t know” the truth about the case, and there’sno longer any way to discredit the basis for the killing game itself.

By the end, with Saihara having already reached the truthdue to his detective’s intuition and deductive reasoning, there was a very,very real possibility that the whole group would’ve been flat-out executed, andMomota himself could realize that, which is ultimately why he came forward andopened the Exisal himself.

The thing is, this is a conclusion Momota reached afterfollowing a script specifically written out for him by Ouma, and following a plan designed by Ouma. The entire plan wassomething Ouma had to improvise in the span of less than two hours after Makicompletely ruined his attempt at dragging the killing game to a halt, but stillin that short amount of time he wrote an entire script that was almost the sizeof a telephone book and planned every single detail within his capacity toforesee, right down to how his fellow classmates would respond or react tothings within the trial.

He knew them. Hecould predict things about them. Like Kamukura and Junko before him, who arethe single two other characters we see talking about “boredom” and “analysis”the same way that Ouma does, it’s very clear to see that Ouma was incredibly smart. If he could write outan entire script for Momota that covered almost every single possible thingthat any of his classmates would think to argue or say, then it follows thatthere’s literally no way he wouldn’t also have predicted that Saihara wouldsolve his “unsolvable catbox murderer.”

After all, he himself spent most of the game challengingSaihara to find the truth, to believe in his own reasoning, and to improvehimself as a detective. He clearly saw Saihara’s potential, because thatpotential itself is what interested him about Saihara so much.

There’s no way a character as careful and cunning as Oumawould’ve made such huge slip-ups like leaving Momota’s jacket sleeve (the wrong sleeve, by the way, which wasitself a clue) sticking out of the press or telling Momota to flush Ouma’sshirt down the toilet knowing that it would be incredibly easy for it toresurface because it would clog the whole thing, unless those thing were veryintentional and meant to be clues.

Because ultimately, as much as Ouma wanted to take down themastermind and end the killing game once and for all, he was certainly notwilling to actually risk everyone else’s lives on it. No matter how much peopledo or don’t believe Ouma’s words, his motive video itself in Chapter 6 confirmsthat his motto, his single guiding code as the leader of DICE, was “We don’tkill people.” When Ouma says he hates the killing game, that he hates murdersand deaths, there’s no way to take that as anything but the truth, because thegame itself and all objective proof points to this same conclusion. Takinghuman lives was the single biggesttaboo for him, and that’s precisely why he became so desperate and tired afterthe stunts he had to resort to in Chapter 4.

He would’ve known far, far earlier than Momota that therewas always a chance that Monokuma would reach the right answer himself or bewilling to take a bet on it, using Saihara’s previous track record of beingcorrect as leverage. He would’ve known that in that case, all the group wouldstill get executed regardless, particularly if the mastermind was willing tocheat and not follow their own rules, as we know Tsumugi is inclined to do. And ultimately, he would’ve decided that hissacrifice was better spent not getting the whole group killed, but insteadsending a single, huge subversive message to the mastermind, and leaving cluesto the rest of the group that would become vital to them ending the killing game in the next chapter—which is exactlywhat happens, actually.

If Ouma had actually wanted to make a completely unsolvablecatbox murder, it would’ve been all too easy for him to leave nothing stickingout of the press at all. If he’d wanted his own clothes disposed of so that hisshirt didn’t stick out, he could’ve just told Momota to hold onto it in theExisal with him, rather than flushing it. And most notably, he wouldn’t havegiven them the camcorder video at all.

That video itself was the single most damning piece ofevidence that wound up proving that Ouma was actually dead and Momota was theculprit, and it was handed to the group quite literally on a silver platter.The act of “tricking” the group into thinking it was Momota at first onlyresulted in them realizing the truth later, realizing the angle and purpose ofthe press to cover up the victim. There was absolutely no reason for Ouma torecord that video and then hand it to the whole group as a present unless itwas absolutely designed to help them solve the case, rather than leaving itunsolvable forever. Again: you don’t give hints and clues out for free if youdon’t want people to solve them.

Following Chapter 5, there are so many things about Oumathat Saihara and the others uncover. Literally most of the investigation forChapter 6 is spent realizing “hey Ouma left all these secret messages and alsogave us literally ALL the tools we need to uncover the mastermind and get outof this school, and also wow he kind of was super scarily smart about all thisshit.”

I want to write in-depth about some of these Chapter 6 cluesat a later time, including most notably the fact that Ouma had accessed Amami’slab and left clues necessary to the whole group’s survival all around theschool as early as the beginning ofChapter 4. And he did it all while obfuscating stupidity, making himselflook as if he was simultaneously just an asshole with a big mouth and alsocompletely on the mastermind’s side, and didn’t even begin to show his trueintentions until Chapter 5. But that’s for a later time, and I’ll probably haveto take my time writing it, because there’s way too much to start with.

In the meantime, I hope this ask helped! Ouma absolutelywanted to take down the mastermind and end the killing game in Chapter 5—just notby taking everyone else down with him. He was absolutely not willing to put other people’s lives at risk, moreso after whathe chose to do to Miu and Gonta in Chapter 4 and how that completely wentagainst what he stood for. And knowing that Monokuma might well ignore his ownrules and execute everyone anyway, that was a risk he wasn’t willing to take,so he staked his life on trying to send a message instead, and getting everyoneto start thinking and solving things for themselves in Chapter 6, rather thanending things in the Chapter 5 trial.

I hope by reading this people can at least appreciate thatOuma is well-written, even if they certainly aren’t obligated to like him as aperson. He absolutely can be a little horrible gremlin who does morallyquestionable things, and he knows how to target people emotionally and presshis advantages. But he’s also unarguably, undeniably smart, very smart, and all of his calculationsand strategic planning was for the sake of ending not only the current killinggame they were in but trying to end the concept of the killing game as a whole,and that is fascinating as amotivation. Thank you for any of you who’ve read this far; this was very fun towrite!

#ndrv3 #drv3 #new danganronpa v3 #kokichi ouma #ouma kokichi #ndrv3 spoilers //#my meta #okay to reblog #i'm so excited to be able to start writing more about chapter 6 spoilers and misconceptions soon #there's so much that's incredibly fascinating there and i haven't seen a lot of people talking about it yet #anyway i hope people enjoy this piece because it was incredibly fun to write!#alsiushaku

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demonicintegrity · 4 years

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On the monorail so I shall type out my FNAF dream. I was woken up abruptly so rip The details. Mobile won’t add a read more so long post ahead.

So the premise is that I’m in the perspective of purple guy’s daughter for most of this. I’ll call her Charlotte. She’s anywhere from 14 - 16. The point here is at her home she lives with her dad (mr murderer) and there’s a bunch of animatronics. The og four, mangle, a Starbucks one??? Idk she served coffee and wore green. A penguin, and a dog on all fours thats posses by her old dog, Goldilocks I think. I might be missing some but assume there’s about 10, so a lot more than any house should have. Tho it is a big house

So Charlotte has this friend Micheal, who comes over often and hangs out what not. Micheal is aware of the murders of multiple kids some time ago, Charlotte isn’t. All she knows is that her father is strict and doesn’t let her go out much but loves her a whole lot and likes robots.

So the main conflict here is that all of these animatronics are possessed, Charlotte isn’t in the loop of any of this, and the main set up is that for whatever reason, Micheal and Charlotte throw a party at her house while her dad is gone for a bit. It’s crowded, there are parents and children of all ages, but overall is going okay. The bots are stuck in a programmed mode so they have scripts and everyone seems chill with them. At some point Mr. Afton himself gets home and he has a package, a final part that will eventually be used to fix up the ol springbonnie suit. He picks up the package and genuinely seems to be cool about a random party in his house. He’s just vibing and chatting with some adults, having a beer I think. It’s night so it’s starting to get chilly.

Charlotte and Micheal are having fun, the bots are nervous around so many people but genuinely like seeing Charlotte happy so they’ll push through. And someone decides to be nosy around the house. Some dude goes up to the master bedroom, which is obviously Afton’s room. Random dude goes up and he finds something. I can’t remember if it’s something under the bed or the suit in the closet. Whatever it is, it’s not good and very incriminating. Of course for plot purposes Mr. Afton happens to walk in on the snoop.

Hooray for plot convience.

This results in quite an argument, I don’t remember specifics but it’s loud enough to get attention. Charlotte and Micheal upon hearing Mr. Afton yelling go up to investigate. At the same time the animatronics are a bit scattered around the house, with one, I believe Bonnie, with Afton and the snoop. I think he followed the arguing.

Charlotte and Micheal go in and over hear more incriminating information. Damn I forget the specifics but I believe the snoop is pretty on the nose about about stating his belief on who the murderer is. This sends Charlotte in emotional distress and Mr. Afton into more distress because now his daughter knows. It’s also worth noting that because most of people have come inside and heard the yelling, a lot of people are now aware and horrified.

Mr afton, in quite a panic because a lot of things are coming down on him, has to think fast. He presses a button on Bonnie and directs him and the other bots to round up everyone. He says to round em up and lock em the basement because for some reason he’s got a lot of room in the basement. All bots do the black eyes with white pupils thing and start doing it. The spirits possessing them don’t want to but can’t do anything about it. While that’s happening Afton is panicking about how to deal with all the witnesses out loud. Does he kill the parents and keep the kids? Kill kids and trap the parents? Neither are going to do much good. These events and words are understandably, freaking everybody out.

Now it’s at this part that I really don’t know what’s happening. It’s just misc scenarios are this point. Afton yelling at Micheal that maybe he’s sheltered Charlotte a bit too much in the midst of them arguing about how Afton didn’t like Micheal around as an influence. At some point kids and adults are rounded into the basement, maybe Afton picks up Charlotte at some point with the intent to hide until he figures something out, at some point Goldilocks breaks the programming so she can help Charlotte and it also helps the others break the programming. Im not entirely sure, I woke up at this point.

So yea. Take that’s as you will. It’s got some interesting points in it. Possible au material if I ever decide to care enough to make one.

#fnaf

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theofficialrphq-blog · 7 years

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RPHQ April Spotlight

ART SPOLTIGHT

Recent artists featured by RPHQ

See all RPHQ artists here!

Take the Art Challenge!

How would you draw your character the opposite of what they are right now?

CHARACTER SPOTLIGHT

Star Wars the Old Republic

Darth Azhrael

What inspired you to create this character?

"I had done about 3 months of very light roleplay in WoW before leaving that setting and had been playing DnD for several years but really wanted a more immersive roleplay experience. Five guys around a table caring more about number crunching and making jokes just wasn't cutting it anymore. I had played a Death Knight in WoW because it was the closest thing to a Sith Lord in my opinion. And I had just finished playing in an evil DnD campaign as a Tiefling Paladin when I realized I greatly enjoyed playing morally ambiguous or down right villainous characters. And since my character archetype that I had based my Death Knight on had been a Sith Lord I naturally drifted to SWTOR and thought of how cool it would be to grow from a struggling acolyte into a Darth and train others in the same way. So I made an entirely new Sith Pureblood character." -- Azhrael

What is your favorite part about roleplaying this character?

"I love the Sith Code, so using that and Sith culture as a whole to firmly root the character was a ton of fun and significantly shaped the way he behaved. It wasn't about twirling a mustache and being "Evil", it was about not having any limits and overcoming whatever obstacles stood in his way. Something that I partially disliked was not having him be very outwardly emotional. When he was a younger Sith he was much more prone to savage bursts of violence, but as he matured in his beliefs he came to understand that if he wasn't in control of his emotions they were in control of him and thus limiting him. So for the vast majority of his interactions he was calm, cool, and collected, which was very satisfying to play. The problem came in that he never really showed affection, so it forced me to be very clever in how he complimented others, which he rarely did, or displayed an attachment of any kind to another character. This was a good exercise for writing, but a part of me wished he had become a bit more charismatic and manipulative in a very personal way." -- Azhrael

What was a defining moment in the rp history of this character?

"I was still a student and my master was an incredibly cruel woman without a greater purpose, which was hard for my character; but as a roleplayer I loved it! One of the things she enjoyed was attempting to take control of my character's mind to force him to do her bidding. During an event our Order was given the option of aiding a particular Darth, but most of us chose not to intervene, including myself and my master. But another Lord for which she had plans engaged. My master took control of my mind briefly when I refused her command to enter combat and protect this Darth. When I regained control I threatened to kill her if she ever did so again, even though I knew I was hopelessly outmatched. She just laughed and attacked me. In the end, the second in command, who had come through the academy with my master and in whom I had previously planted the seed of such an intervention, spoke of how she had witnessed the senseless malevolence of my master and would no longer abide it. They dueled, and ultimately the second in command crushed my master's heart with the force. It was found that my master had been a traitor to the Order for some time as was revealed soon after her death. But being responsible for the death of one's master is the dream of every Sith, and it was no different for my character. It was an incredible night of rp and was integral in forming him into the Sith he ultimately became." -- Azhrael

What have been your best rp experiences with this character?

"My best roleplay experiences have been with my apprentice. I knew from the very first time we interacted and then from watching her interact with others that she was the perfect clay to mold into a true Sith. She was already more a Sith than the vast majority of my fellow Lords and Darths and I nurtured that potential. We had a ton of fun together and working alongside one another we managed to manipulate events to achieve a long term goal, claim leadership of our order and ridding it of heretics. It was glorious." -- Azhrael

Azhrael's theme song is about freedom, which is one of the central concepts to understanding what it means to be Sith.

ARTICLE SPOLTIGHT

The People Who Roleplay As Cops In Grand Theft Auto

"They use mods to don police uniforms and drive law enforcement vehicles, some of which are made by fellow fans. They create scenarios such as routine traffic stops and patrols, sometimes even engaging in high-speed car chases. ... Because GTA wasn’t built for people who want to play as the police, players have to set it all up for themselves. The form groups and assemble in small shared instances of the game where they act out a script or improv." -- Zack Zwiezen "Some do it for the fun of pretending to arrest other players who roleplay as criminals. Others do it to satisfy the fantasy of driving in to save the day. ... Depending on the session and the platform, players will use mods or chat to roleplay actions that GTA V doesn’t support, like ticketing or arresting players. ... LSPDFR adds new animations, custom uniforms, improves the the AI of the computer-controlled police in the game, allows players to pull over and arrest suspects and more." -- Zack Zwiezen

Game Players Are Failing In Our Duty To Be Evil

"Most game players find evil paths in narrative games a big turn-off. Overwhelmingly, they follow "good" paths as the default option. Statistics presented by Microsoft technical evangelist Amanda Lange at GDC today showed that, in narrative games where "good" and "evil" were clearly defined as story paths, only 5 percent of players opted for "evil" on a first play-through. The number jumped to around 50 percent on a second run." -- Colin Campbell "So what is the lesson for game designers who create "evil" narrative paths, and want players to experience those stories as viable first-play options? She said that presenting pure evil without context is a bad idea, because most people find the concept off-putting. Adding friction to evil is counter-productive. Evil should come with its own risks and rewards, as it (mostly) does in real life. "People love to have their emotional boundaries tested," she concluded, adding that evil paths can create the most interesting moral problems." -- Colin Campbell

Actors play patients to train medical students for real-life work

"Medical schools are turning to part-time actors to help students polish their bedside manners, long before they reach a real patient's bedside. The actors take part in elaborate role plays, simulating patients to help mimic the challenges of hospital work. This could mean playing a distraught family member, a patient who cannot speak English or a senior doctor." -- Linette Lai "As an actor, you just go by the script," he said. "As a simulated patient, you may be able to pre- empt responses, but it's not a fixed script on the other end." -- Daphne Ong

Press Start: Crafting the ultimate role-playing game

"There's something special about spending dozens of hours in the same world, wrapped up in its lore, playing a pivotal role in how the story shapes out. It's addicting committing to a character you create and shape and see his or her personal growth throughout the game. There's no such thing as a perfect game, role-playing or otherwise. But what if there was? What would it be like?" -- Jake Magee

MUSIC SPOTLIGHT

RP ADVICE SPOTLIGHT

On Writing & Roleplaying Older Characters

Many writers and roleplayers, especially those in relatively young age groups, find themselves faced with the challenge of portraying many characters who are quite a bit older than themselves - and with no personal experience to go on, this can sometimes present a challenge. And as it's hardly realistic to just try and wait until you're as old as all of your characters are supposed, here's some advice and tips for those of you having a hard time with this.

RP COMMUNITIES SPOTLIGHT

- TABLETOP

Turn Your Table Top Into an Interactive Display with the Touchjet Pond

"The Touchjet Pond interactive Android based projector can totally transform your gaming table bringing your dungeons, and dragons, into the future. Using the Touchjet Pond projector for my roleplaying games, I was able to present the professionally drawn maps provided by Paizo’s Adventure Paths and interact with them right on the table." -- Ryan Hiller

‘Dungeons & Dragons’ in AR Teased by Wizards of the Coast Digital Games Studio

"Playing Dungeons & Dragons 5th edition using AltspaceVR was one of my first multi-hour VR experiences. It combined something that I was familiar with and brought it to new life with new capabilities using the power of virtual reality. Whereas Dungeons & Dragons in VR brings anyone from around the world to the same location as you to relish in the joy of tabletop roleplaying in a digital setting, AR would bring digital augmentations into the physical world to enhance a physical game. " -- David Jagneaux

- MMORPG

Ark: Survival Evolved Roleplay

"Dinosaurs aren't the only thing that's big about Ark: Survival Evolved, there's a massive community of roleplayers trying to survive on The Island too." -- Steven Messner

I was drugged, forced to sing, and accused of murder in one night on an Ark roleplaying server

By Steven Messner February 16, 2017

"And that still wasn't the most uncomfortable thing that happened to me."

"The Roleplayers of ARK: Survival Evolved This will be a public group to those who wish to RP in the game ARK: Survival Evolved. All RPers are welcome, including clan/tribe/guild leaders and their members. If you know someone who has an RP server, wants to promote it, etc, please recommend this group to them! If you have a Roleplay-oriented site for ARK, we can promote that here as well! PLEASE NOTE: This steam group does NOT have 'one' server that we will all be playing on. It is primarily for RPers who play ARK, to 'search' for other RPers, or RP servers. " -- https://steamcommunity.com/groups/ARKPublicRoleplay

Getting to know the wonderfully mad community of EVE Online at their 2017 fanfest

"EVE Online has the nicest, craziest fanbase you could hope for. We explore their 2017 fanfest." -- Alex Donaldson

Life of Rome MMO Brings You Back to the Ancient Rome - Release date 2017

"Life of Rome is a third and first-person MMORPG set in the persistent world of 320 AD Rome. Players can choose to be Roman allegiance or Rebels, the game is designed to emphasize roleplay and community using family systems and player-driven politics. The in-game world is a 50km2 representation of Rome and its surrounding areas, including small villages, Rebel camps and Roman forts. Now the game is in Steam early access alpha. " -- Serena, mmosite.com "Players interact with each other in a series of locations spread across the area. Major roleplaying-based storylines, purely optional, will be started and run by developers as well as players. Players in a position of power may also affect gameplay by setting a faction’s agenda, creating long-term political, economic, or military goals, which are broken up into missions handed down through a faction’s hierarchy in the form of player generated and driven missions." -- Serena, mmosite.com "Players can form or join families with other players, and earn prestige for the whole group. The leaders of the most prestigious families in Rome who meet the Prestige requirement can elect to join the Senate, with the two highest ranking leaders as Consuls. During Senate meetings, these players can vote to enact a single benefit which will apply to all players loyal to Rome until the next meeting." -- Serena, mmosite.com "Rome and the surrounding territory will contain many Temples and Shrines to a variety of Deities, each with a selection of different Benefits. Players can select a Religious Benefit every 24 hours by visiting and praying at a temple or shire dedicated to a specific deity." -- Serena, mmosite.com

Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen - Release date 2017

"Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen is a group-focused MMORPG based on challenging gameplay and open world high fantasy. It takes place on a world populated by deities and heroes, called Terminus. Mortal and planar shards which have collided create the dramatic and epic environment of Terminus. With some of those shards came deities and demigods that, over time, raised empires which forged the turbulent political landscape. Centuries later, new planar collisions have occurred that will pull the players into the world and its politics. The player is a legendary hero, stripped of his or her powerful relics and left to explore the dramatically diverse and epic regions of Terminus with hopes of reclaiming their relics and those of lost heroes." -- mmorpg.com

Rift Wardrobe

- LARP

Disney is mooting an overnight Star Wars LARP resort

"Disney is contemplating opening a luxury Star Wars themed resort next to the Hollywood Studios park at Disney World, which could feature multi-day live-action role-playing games that run overnight, with guests staying all night in the park to interact with costumed characters and automated elements (droids, etc) to game out scenarios." -- boingboing.net

ARCHITECT SPOTLIGHT

Visit the Elder Scrolls Online community here to see screenshots of players homes:

SHOW YOUR HOME

Rift Dimensions built by Whatchacallit on the Greybriar Shard

Visit the Rift Dimension Gallery website to see all of Whatchacallit's work!

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