actually ascension needs its own post since that's the one with the most details to speculate over and im starved for soho talk so i will talk to myself if need be
First the cover again, because I kinda can't get over it:
my only thing is that I had been hoping we might get Lizbeth on a cover again since she's never been on one of the boxsets before, despite being the 2nd person credited on all 4 of them (even if that's just alphabetical, still, she's the only one of the four main characters who never makes the cover)
But letting that go...
I know we already kinda knew the brief for this one but damn I didn't expect it to go quite this hard. Maybe that's just because the Parasite & Ashenden covers were (comparatively) similarish to each other and I was so pleased with Unbegotten's, and then got so used to it as the placeholder for Ascension while they kept postponing it, I wasn't expecting anything this colorful or detailed or with what I can't help but register as Fun New Outfits even though these are still like, pretty damn basic as far as costumes go. Still, it's a different vibe from everyone in suits and trenchcoats on every cover, technically. (Oh the woes of being an audio fan such that two characters owning sweaters actually does qualify as new information)
On top of just being visually delightful though, I know we knew religion was gonna be a fairly big part of this one, but I didn't actually expect to get quite this much of it - though I'm glad of it for a number of reasons. The BF twitter already made the ineffable joke so I don't have to, but also yeah I did very much spend all of season 2 episode 4 of good omens half convinced Samuel Barnett & Dervla Kirwan were about to pop up around any given corner (if you will go around being gay supernatural and horrible at your messy bureaucratic jobs in midcentury soho then I'm sorry, this is where my brain's gonna go) - so, fuel to that fire. But in terms of actual important things, at least one of my Soho wishes looks to be being granted because we have a Rev Edward Folgate on the cast list, which must mean we're finally meeting Norton's father, even if his mother & brother don't appear (which they could, technically, I've definitely seen BF not list all the doublings on their cast tabs before). Religion, domesticity, and the nuclear family are all things that absolutely fascinate me when it comes to Norton's character, so getting any amount of story involving his father & his church is something I've been actively hoping for for a long time now.
(I will say I'm a tiny bit bummed Saffron Coomber isn't on the cast list to play Mia again, but I kinda figured she wasn't going to be since Greg Austin's Armitage, who's making his first recurring appearance after originating in Unbegotten, was listed ever since the boxset was announced - presumably if she was also returning, that would've been handled in the same way. But since Unbegotten ended with Lizbeth and Mia going on a date, I still held out hope. Who knows though, maybe things did go well for them and Lizbeth just has a better work/life balance than Norton so she can date someone without them getting dragged into every scifi plot. I know that's not a very common accomplishment for any Torchwood agent, but a gal can hope)
At this point I know I'm completely in the realm of speculation & even wishful thinking, but I'm really really hoping we get some more clues as to Norton's overall timeline in this one, and I have a feeling that even if there's nothing as direct as dates given, the events of a plot like this one are going to heavily influence my personal interpretation of it.
To say that life & death are major themes for the soho crew feels wildly reductive, but even by Torchwood's standards and taking into account its origins as a piece of media with Jack Harkness & his newfound immortality at the heart of it, the living/dead status of this bunch has always been fantastically up in the air to me. Obviously Ghost Mission introduced Norton as kind of a ghost before revealing more obvious ghostly characters later on to which the title might have been referring, but his being from the past did beg the question of his survival into Torchwood's present era all the same, which Outbreak later alludes to much more directly, and his habit of showing up via hologram in multiple stories only further obfuscates any certainty we might have about where & when he definitely can be said to be alive and well. Then you've got Lizbeth and Gideon both being effectively 'brought back to life' via paradoxes that prevented them ever having died in the first place. Again, they are very very far from being the only Torcwhood characters this happens to (for a sprawling EU, it's really rather impressive how often & in how many different ways Torchwood as a whole manages to circle back to being about like. chaotic undead queers at the end of every day. though I suppose that consistency is part of why I keep falling in love with its different iterations again and again). That's without even getting into the question of Norton's dubious fate in God Among Us - and I say dubious because I know some people take that to be his ultimate death, but I personally think that reading something as vague as that as having any kind of finality rather goes against the spirit of this whole world/series, not just because I want him to live. (There are obviously other ways to make him survive/reappear, but I don't see this as a River Song scenario where we can safely assume one of his earlier-released adventures had to happen at the end of his personal timeline). But wherever God Among Us falls for him, he does very much meet God in it - or at least, a god, since the sentinel in Unbegotten is also described as a god of sorts, and even if he doesn't ultimately have the status of the god Jacqueline King is playing there, Unbegotten is still full to bursting with ghosts/undead/came back wrong/echo characters to continue underscoring that life/afterlife theme.
So all things considered, even allowing for the fact that we know Norton's twin hobbies are lying about himself and abusing time travel to suit his own ends/ever-shifting alliances, I find it difficult to believe we could get through a whole 6-part boxset about religion & death without something providing some kind of compelling evidence about where this adventure fits in among his other run-ins with apocalypses and gods and ghosts and dead-but-still-here characters/creatures, so I'm very much looking forward to any further exploration on that front.
And lastly, and least intellectually, I really want to know what the hell 20th-century Torchwood's obsession with Reginalds is. Reading through the cast list, I had to do two separate doubletakes over the character 'Sir Reginald Peebles' - firstly, because I had Reginald Rigsby on the brain, this being Soho (and the other Troughton brother being so active on BF's releases for this same month) - and secondly, because reading this in conjunction with the announcement for the July monthly adventure in which the new main Torchwood guy of the 20s is apparently called Sir Reginald Dellafield, there was a brief moment where I took that monthly release to be a tie-in with Ascension. I don't expect it to be, but damn. was it really so popular a name?
anyways, catch me thinking about those stained glass windows for the next couple months I guess (and knowing Torchwood Soho, for a long long time after it comes out as well lol)
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Aspect of Order: Primordial & Present-Day
One of the first deities, part of what is known as the Primordial Triad. It created the planes alongside the Aspects of Chaos and the In-Between and held dominion over the Material Plane. It embodied order in the way nature has order: the life cycle, gravity, the tides, the surety that the seasons will change, the patterns that appear in flora and fauna alike, the symmetry of pinecones and butterflies. It was associated with the night as a time of quiet preparation where the world rests, and when one can see the remains of creation in the darkened sky. It is said that the two moons of the Material Plane are its eyes, watching over its creations.
All three members of the Primordial Triad are referred to with "it", so ancient and unfathomable that applying a mortal, transient concept of gender to them seemed almost blasphemous.
Almost.
The modern-day conception of Order is quite different. Though she still reigns over the night and natural laws, her followers have placed her at the forefront of the creation process, reducing the In-Between's role and rejecting Chaos altogether. Though most present-day cultures think of her in this way, many of them do not emphasize her: she is an invisible Over-God, keeping the other deities and forces in line and maintaining cosmic balance from behind the scenes. In places where she is worshipped heavily, however, she is placed at the forefront of the pantheon. In those cases, worship of deities with overlapping domains is either illegal (ex local gods of justice) or considered secondary to her (ex the god of the Wilds). The worship of smaller, local deities is usually discouraged or suppressed over-all in these areas in order to encourage a more structured, uniform religious practice. While both aspects of Order championed paladins, Primordial Order also championed druids and rangers while Modern Order champions clerics.
Ancient theologians debated whether or not Order and Chaos were two aspects of the same being (ironically, there was no question that the In-Between was its own separate force). However, following the iconoclasm that effectively forced Chaos out of the pantheon and created the modern conception of Order, such lines of thought were considered heretical, and then blasphemous.
The iconoclasm did have an unintended consequence, however. Crying motifs appeared in some art of Primordial Order around that time, particularly in the areas that resisted the iconoclasts more intensely. Some scholars believe that it may have been a direct reaction to the event: Order mourning the loss of its counterpart. Others have argued, however, that the lack of such motifs (or equivalents) in depictions of the In-Between prove this wrong. After all, why would it not also be grieving?
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What was Arin, Sora and Wyldfyre reaction to Oliver crystal king form? I can see Lloyd telling them to not be scared before giving Oliver tofu to calm him down
Ok, so first I feel the need to explain a bit of the timeline idea I had from rewatching part 1. So Oliver joins the team a little bit before they go to Imperium, and although he is initially told to stay at the monastery with Kai, he ignores that order and ends up following them anyway. He mainly ends up sticking with Lloyd for a bit until the part where Sora regroups with everyone and then she and Arin go off to save Riyu.
This is another point where Oliver is told to do one thing and then he ignores those orders to do his own thing as Lloyd tells him to stick with him and the others, but Oliver gets worried about Sora and Arin's safety and decides to go after them. He gets chased by some of the Imperium soldiers and this is when he goes into Outburst/Crystal King/Whatever I end up calling this form. Pretty much, he gets tired of these soldiers getting in his way so he goes a bit apeshit and just starts destroying anyone in his path. He eventually does arrive to help out Arin and Sora and they are both pretty terrified when they see him.
For added context, Arin grew up in Ninjago. He knows about the Crystal King and he knows all the stuff the Crystal King did. So, he is rightfully freaked out to see Oliver busting into the room, beating up bad guys relentlessly while looking EXACTLY like how he did when he was the Crystal King.
Sora doesn't have as much knowledge about the whole Crystal King stuff other than things Arin probably told her, but Oliver is still very intimidating. It doesn't help that she's dealing with the whiplash from first meeting him and realizing, "Oh, he's kind of just a goofball. A little weird, yeah, but he seems harmless." And then she sees him being a genuine threat to the enemies, she sees him fighting Ras and holding his own, and also seeing Arin's reaction to this whole thing would definitely make her freaked out.
Now eventually, Oliver does calm down and turns back to normal when he sees how freaked out his new friends are of him. He panics a little bit and tries to explain everything, but it's a stressful situation and they don't really have time since they need to get Riyu to safety and get back to the others, so they just put a pin in that for now.
After things calm down, Oliver pulls Arin and Sora to the side to explain some things and also to ask them not to tell Lloyd or the others about what happened because he's scared of what they'd think if they knew how ruthless he was against Imperium. They promise not to say anything and are pretty supportive of Oliver since they realize that he really does care about them and has a good heart.
And for a little bit of added context, Lloyd and the others haven't seen Oliver for a really long time. And even before the merge, he had been doing a great job at keeping his cool and trying to be good to make up for everything he did as the Crystal King, and the fight at Imperium was the first time Oliver had snapped like that in a long time while the ninja were around (or in this case, just Arin and Sora). He probably had some outbursts while on his own, but again, the ninja weren't there to see it. After Crystalized, Oliver puts a lot of pressure on himself to be good and to not fall into his evil nature, so even though he was ultimately using this other form for good, he's still scared that the others, especially Lloyd might not see it that way. Because his Outbursts, even when he was a little kid, has always been a bit of that evil nature coming out and making him violent.
Yeah that was a long explanation but TLDR, Arin and Sora were pretty freaked out, at this point in time Wyldfyre hasn't seen him in that form yet (and also pretty much just met him), and Lloyd and the other ninja don't even know about him being able to do that yet so they wouldn't have any reason to talk to Arin, Sora or Wyldfyre about it as of now
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