#the whole point of DEH is that good and bad people don’t exist

[buck-yyyy]

i- there is so many things wrong with this

(for context the original comment was saying that evan hansen is an example of a protagonist that’s a bad person, someone else replied saying that they didn’t like DEH as opposed to hamilton and six because evan was a bad person, this person then commented this)

1. hamilton is not a character experiencing a redemption arc, he was a REAL PERSON. hamilton is an incredible musical and is a genuine piece of contemporary art, but treating the people the show is about as though they are original characters following a storyline created by LMM is nearsighted and ignorant. these were real people who made real decisions with very real consequences.

2. have,, have you listened to dear evan hansen?? or read the book?? the whole point of DEH is that good and bad are not objective boxes, that it’s not black and white. evan hansen is not a bad person- he is a teenage boy struggling with mental illness who made an exceptionally bad decision that quickly spiraled into something out of his control.

DEH is about growth, mental illness, grief, and the absence of objectivity in real life.

there is no such thing as a good person or a bad person, there are simply people who make different choices- and the outcome of those choices is entirely subjective.

for the record, im NOT saying that what evan did was right or excusable- but to say that he’s a bad person for what he did is completely ignoring the plot of the musical and the character development we witness on stage.

#i do NOT like people misinterpreting my favorite things #especially considering how when my anxiety was really really bad i saw so much of myself in evan #when i realized how messed up what happened in the musical was i legitimately went through the five stages of grief #i was so heartbroken at the thought of one of my favorite characters that i felt represented me might actually have been a bad person #but then i realized that #again #the whole point of DEH is that good and bad people don’t exist #it’s all just people and the choices they make #and how they choose to grow from them #dear evan hansen

[nitpick7]

Ayo anyone wanna see my essay on why removing Anybody Have A Map made the Dear Evan Hansen movie worse? It is slightly long

Disclaimer: I did like the movie (I cried three times), but I think they made some stupid decisions with it.

Dear Evan Hansen movie + musical spoilers under the cut, plus a fair amount of DEH neg/crit

Instead of Anybody Have A Map, they just have Evan's mom say "Hey are you writing those letters to yourself? Also you should ask the kids to sign your cast" before he goes to school and sings Waving Through A Window. They ignore every other part of the song and quickly insert the only thing from the song that's absolutely needed to understand the story so Evan can go be angsty at school. We don't even meet the Murphys until they meet Evan in the principal's office to tell him about Connor.

Disclaimer part 2 electric boogaloo: I complain about Evan a lot here. It's not because I think his experiences aren't valid and it's not because I'm trying to demonize people with mental illnesses or something. I know that his own struggles influenced his bad decisions. That doesn't mean they weren't bad decisions. He still did shitty things and he wasn't justified (listen to Words Fail), but I know it was influenced by his mental health.

On with the complaining!

First of all, the movie opens with Waving Through A Window? It feels like they're putting the most popular song first as a desperate grab for your attention to convince you the movie is good and like... they really didn't need to do that. Waving Through A Window is right after Anybody Have A Map, it's not like anyone's gonna walk out of the theatre after one (really good) song.

Anybody Have A Map establishes a few things: it shows us that both of these families are struggling so that we know immediately that the Murphys' perfect facade is fake, it shows us that Connor was a dick to his family (this is very important), and obviously it tells us why Evan was writing letters to himself. It also introduces us to the two main families at the same time so we know this story isn't just about Evan.

By starting the movie with an Evan solo song instead of the group song, they frame Evan as the one main character, the only person whose perspective we need to understand. But Evan is incredibly flawed, just like everyone else, and by making us think the story is only about him, it immediately makes us (the audience) more inclined to believe that Evan is always in the right and less inclined to consider everyone else's side of the story. Evan is an incredibly unreliable narrator, he's always going to frame his actions as correct, or at least excusable, even when he's actively hurting/lying to other people.

All of the Murphys get introduced through interacting with Evan instead of interacting with each other. This makes it seem like the Murphys only exist for Evan, but the entire point of the climax is that everything doesn't exist just for Evan! Evan is not part of their family, he can't just use everyone around him for his own benefit, and all of the Murphys have lives outside of him. When they're introduced through Evan, they're introduced as existing for Evan. Anybody Have A Map introduces them separately from Evan instead of attached to him.

Without Anybody Have A Map, we never actually see Connor being mean to Zoe, so she just looks like an asshole for not being sad about her dead brother. To make up for it, she's constantly having to tell the audience why she hated him, tripping over herself to talk about all the shitty things he did to her because we don't have Anybody Have A Map to show us their interactions. Zoe ends up complaining about her brother the entire time, so when it gets to Only Us and she says that she doesn't want everything to be about her brother, it seems out of character for her.

And with the removal of Anybody Have A Map, we don't ever see Connor interact with his own family in the movie. Anybody Have A Map is the only time we get to see Connor with his family. It shows us that Connor really was an asshole to his family, it justifies Zoe hating him, and it gives his mom more dimensions by showing her struggling to keep her family together even with everyone fighting against her. Without that, the writers ended up ignoring the most basic piece of writing advice - "show, don't tell" - to fill in the missing information from the song.

In the movie, all we get of Cynthia Murphy is... her being sad about Connor and refusing to admit that he ever did anything wrong. She's just boring and annoying in the movie, but in the musical, we get that bit at the beginning that shows her as an actual person with actual motivations! By cutting Anybody Have A Map, they made her into a more one-dimensional character.

So in a bit of a conclusion: Anybody Have A Map establishes the Murphys as main characters separate from Evan and shows us Connor's relationship with his family instead of telling us about it. It sets the scene for the story before just jumping into "Evan is sad and alone uwu anxious depressed soft boy" and makes everyone a better, more three-dimensional character. Getting rid of it meant that they had to do backflips to justify everyone's decisions during the movie instead of setting everything up at the beginning.

I do think the movie could've benefitted from Disappear but then again, it could've benefitted from the whole "Connor being the visual/vocal representation of Evan's justifications for why keeping up the lie is helping people" thing in general, but they got rid of that so Disappear wouldn't have worked. (I am salty that they got rid of that thing but whatever) The Anonymous Ones worked instead and it was a good song, so sure, why not I guess? /neutral

I could also complain about how they got rid of To Break In A Glove, Disappear, and Good For You, but none of those decisions actually impacted the story too much. To Break In A Glove and Good For You both got replaced with some tell-not-show cutscenes that gave us the same information in a less interesting way (and Larry got less character development without To Break In A Glove), and Disappear got replaced with an Alana song which was honestly pretty good so i'm fine with that one.

Now for some good changes that the movie made!

The Anonymous Ones was a good song, I actually really liked that. I'm disappointed that they got rid of Disappear, but they replaced it with another song that served the same purpose while also giving Alana more screen time and character depth! And it was a genuinely good song, I really enjoyed it and it made me like Alana more!

I really liked the ending of the movie. In the musical, there are literally no negative consequences for Evan, Zoe even forgives him at the end. She fucking forgives him for lying to her entire family about their dead son and and taking advantage of them because it "brought them closer together". And the internet never finds out what he did! He does all this terrible shit, lies to the entire fucking world, and gets away scot-free. And he never learns anything real about Connor. The movie changes all of that.

Connor's song was also a great addition! Every time we saw Connor in the musical, he was either being a dick or he was a fantasy version of himself made by Evan and/or Jared. Seeing that Connor can, in fact, be a nice person, that Cynthia's belief in him wasn't misplaced, was so satisfying. He really was just a meaner version of Evan a troubled kid lashing out at the world in self-defense. He wasn't an entirely bad person.

The Murphys still decide not to tell anyone what he did, but then Evan decides (on his own!) that he needs to own up to what he did. He records a video of himself admitting to what he did, shifts all the blame to himself, and then goes out of his way to fix his mistakes in any way he can. He says that his biggest regret is not getting to know Connor while he had the chance, so he goes online to find anything he can. He reads Connor's favorite books, tries to find anyone who might be able to tell him what Connor was like, and when he receives a video of Connor playing his song in rehab, he takes the time to send the video (through the mail, on a flash drive) to the Murphys, Jared, and Alana.

Evan doesn't contact Zoe at the end, she contacts him instead. She doesn't forgive him, and he doesn't ask for forgiveness. He knows what he did was wrong and he owns up to it and tries to fix it as much as possible, knowing full well that it could ruin his life. He does the right thing for the first time in the entire fucking movie (that's hardly even an exaggeration) and it's such a good ending. It makes more sense and is more satisfying than the musical.

The Dear Evan Hansen movie was not nearly as bad as the reviews say it was. It wasn't as good as the musical, it had its own problems, but it also made some good changes that I think made the story better. It wasn't perfect, but I enjoyed it and most movies aren't perfect anyway. It really could've benefitted from Anybody Have A Map, though.

#the first draft of this took 50 minutes to write and it was on discord #then i spent a solid hour editing it while at work #please appreciate me /hj #pie.txt #dear evan hansen #dear evan hansen movie #dear evan hansen musical #dear evan hansen review #evan hansen #connor murphy #zoe murphy #cynthia murphy #larry mora #alana beck #i tagged a post for once now give me clout #/j /j

[sochilll]

Thoughts about the deh movie? What did you like, what did you not like?

I have SO many thoughts and I’m sure other people are gonna explain them much better so I’ll give you a top 5 on each side. (Also I did make a long ass story highlight of all my thoughts on my insta @ be_more_sochill always be plugging). Under the read more cause it’s long and for spoilers!

Likes

Jared Kalwani does is gay! I think they handled it pretty well. They just switched an existing line bragging about a girl to make it about a guy and gay him a pride patch! The “honey” moment was…….. a choice. But I didn’t think it was a big deal considering the tone of that scene. All around it was fun n good and makes sense that it wasn’t a major plot point given that Jared’s love life isn’t relevant to the story

Alana gets feelings! There was a lot of Alana changes I didn’t love tbh. But I really liked the scene of her talking to Evan in the park. It was a good connection moment and showed that while Alana feels the same as Evan, she actually sees that feeling in others too whereas Evan thinks he’s the only one.

Maybe cheating to make these two points but: Anonymous Ones! I really liked this song. It was good as a song, miss Amandla Stenberg has a beautiful voice, and it was good character development. I am disappointed they missed the fucking PERFECT opportunity to show a clip of Jared during the school shots god that would’ve been so good. But anyway, I really liked the addition

They gave us a few little kleinsen treats such as: Jared randomly telling Evan he put on 13 pounds of muscle and hooked up with some guy, and of course, Jared looking at a video of Evan and Zoe and being visibly upset literally in the middle of Only Us. Chefs kiss thank you

I did like the new ending of Evan actually trying to learn about Connor. Reading his favorite books, reaching out to old friends, finding the video. I felt like that showed how everything hit him and how he actually did care about what they were doing. I really liked that he sent the flash drives to Alana and Jared too.

Dislikes

Evan (and everyone else) isn’t responsible for anything. Other people have already talked about this but they removed everyone’s agency pretty much until the only people making bad decisions were people (like Alana) who didn’t *know* they were making them. Almost every single choice Evan makes in the stage version is taken from him. Cynthia literally just comes up with the idea of emails so Evan just has to agree. Alana comes up with the Connor Project and Evan says *no* at first before being pressured into it. Evan doesn’t even kiss Zoe or make the first (or any) move at all with her. There’s no mention of Cynthia and Larry making mistakes in regards to helping Connor except like one line before words fail. Plus, making Larry a step dad completely changes his role into like a hero for raising this difficult kid who “wasn’t his” or whatever. Jared is no longer the driving force behind Evan lying. He softly suggests that it would upset the Murphy’s to know the truth one time. He doesn’t freak Evan out and tell him he needs Jared’s help to pull it off. Everything is perfectly set up for Evan to just quietly nod along without doing anything himself. It undermines the message of the original show. It’s ABOUT people doing bad things. It’s about guilt and regret and GROWING from your mistakes. That can’t happen if no one is to blame.

Alana is very different. She’s quiet and you can sort of tell she has some stuff going on. Which is ???? The opposite of how she’s supposed to be. The whole point of her character was to show that even the loud, confident, outgoing, always good attitude girl feels alone and scared and sad. That doesn’t come across when her self doubt is prominent right away. It’s not as big of a shock when she gets her “I know what it’s like to feel invisible!” Moment. Maybe that’s why they didn’t even let her have it. She literally had to *whisper* her confrontation with Evan. Like they were so afraid to let her raise her voice they made her confront Evan for lying to her about this horrible thing in the library. Let her fucking yell!

Zoe and Evan’s getting together was so fucking weird. Without Evan kissing Zoe first, she doesn’t even know he likes her before launching into her love song for him. But more importantly, Only Us is not a “let’s start dating” song??? The lyrics are clearly about people who have been together. “What we’ve got going is good”??? What have you got going? A weird friendship where he’s trying to steal your parents???? It didn’t make sense. Also I don’t like how Zoe is the one to say “I wish we could’ve met now” at the end. I feel like it doesn’t make sense/feel right for her to say it.

Heidi. I’m sorry Julianne Moore but I can’t stand movie Heidi. She has zero emotion. The good for you fight was just SO boring and bland. She sounded vaguely annoyed. That scene is supposed to be SAD. Yeah she’s angry with Evan but she’s also SO heartbroken that he’s found this other family he loves so much. She’s hurt that he’s apparently been telling them how bad his home life is. She feels like she’s not doing enough for him and that makes her both sad and angry. In the stage version she’s on the verge of tears and she’s yelling and RBJ kills it. I got none of that from the movie. It was just a tense conversation. And because of that, Evan’s final “it’s not my fault other people can” had absolutely none of the punch it usually does. That’s a *gasp* moment in the show. It fell so flat. (I also didn’t like her version of so big/so small for similar reasons. She didn’t seem all that affected by Evan’s reveal :/)

And of course the biggest offense to me personally. Jared got fucked over so bad. They removed anything that gave him any development. Not just didn’t expand on it, fully removed it. He’s basically gone for the second act. He’s way less involved with the lying and the emails and TCP. And once the initial “I can do emails” plot is out of the way he’s just gone. He gets a few reaction shots looking at his phone and that’s it. And the worst part to me is the fact that they added those shots anyway. They put them in there to SHOW that Jared was upset. And then they just DIDNT RESOLVE IT HE DIDNT GET TO CONFRONT EVAN AT ALL. THEY DIDNT EVEN SPEAK IT JUST HARD CUTS TO “oh it’s graduation and we’re friends again”. It completely erases Jared’s entire character. He also feels alone and desperately wants to connect (specifically with Evan). We know that through the bits of him we see in the show ESPECIALLY during good for you. And they trashed all of that so he could be the funny side character.

Bonus dislike: they showed the scene of Evan falling so many fucking times and it was just so tasteless. Like… why was that necessary.

All in all I did enjoy it as a separate entity but comparing it to the stage version which I love so much, it was so, so disappointing for me. However I will be watching it 17 more times. Long live Nik Dodani Jared.

#this is so long and I’m sure all these points have been reiterated in other posts that probably explained them better but! #those are my thoughts! #if anyone wants to send me their opinions on the movie I would love 2 hear them #thank you for asking! I love yelling ! #ask #anon #🦝

[shorties-unite]

A Comprehensive List of Reasons why I Cried in the Year 2020

JANUARY

- Ex texting “who’s this?”

- Watching Hannah Montana, Robby is such a good dad, made me miss my dad

- A story about an old couple where one of them is forgetting. Imagine being in love. Imagine forgettting. Scary but beautiful

February

- LaDarius’s brother crying when Navarro won nationals

- Had an argument with brother cause he didn’t get that I can’t just like anyone

March

- Frozen II a little bc of how boyband-y kristoff’s love song was, mostly bc of Show Yourself

- Got home bc of corona virus, made my brother mad just by existing. Also I’m probably just exhausted from the weekend

- Can’t deal with no schedule bc of corona and miss GC after ONE DAY.

April

- more breakdown about no schedule and musculoskeletal Anatomy

- Thought about Louis Tomlinson’s family and then saw a video of Simon saying supportive stuff when he performed at XFactor after his mum died

- Another vid about Louis god he’s amazing

- Louis Tomlinson

- Mr Robot

- Mr Robot again but like big time

- My Robot part 3

- Interpersonal Skills essay research

- Mr Robot part four I knew it was coming but god damn rami you wound me

- One tear for Phineas and Ferb

- Fuckin rami, fucking robots, makes me sad that that’s a real thing

- Mr Robot the finale, and definitely not anything else that I may or may not have found out about today because I’m a bad bitch and being sad about boys again would be dumb

May

- Got super anxious about interpersonal skills bst, cried in front of tutor during test

- Coughed so hard I cried, x2 but Idk if that counts

- A short story about a dude marrying a dead girl

June

- Mum unsuccessful in competitive process

- 13 reasons why 2nd last ep got me teary cause Troye and Winston and Alex and Charlie

- Decided to rewatch DEH and feel things

- Last episode of 13rw ew

July

- Twice watching Hamilton

- It chap 2 got me a lil cause of course it did

- Louis tweeted for the 10 year anniversary, he thanked everyone and tagged all the boys, even zayn

- Queer eye got me tearing up, frick man

August

- mum and little sister leave after their trip for sister’s formal dress and I missed having ppl around so it was really great to see them and now I’m lonely

September

- New phineas and ferb day

October

- Was anxious all day, forgot to eat before 3pm, got teary because I was standing too close to a group of loud teenage boys with bad haircuts in a public place and couldn’t get away

- Later that night, I think I’m still just anxious and also I have jealousy

- Again, this time watching a @dannyphantom.exe tik tok but also still feeling things so I’m blaming that

- Roman calling Virgil “brave”

- Kathy Johnson beam story in Defying Gravity on YouTube

- “Hoping This Cold Blue Water Scrubs me Clean and Spits me out Again” ty for the rec O_____

- Onward x2 (one when Ian realised how his brother had been there for him, and one when barley gets to say goodbye to his dad but Ian is stuck behind a rock and can’t go to them)

- The Keri Straugh story

- Watching new girl with mum

November

- Girl Meets World x2

- Oh look Girl Meets World again not Maya’s dad

- Glee, Kurt’s dad almost died okay it’s sad

- 5.5x at youngest sister’s dance concert

- Glee again, Jean’s funeral

- Watched that Netflix short if anything happens I love you, I don’t think it’s as sad as ppl say but I’m not American soooo

December

- Got cancelled on by T____ for a third time, felt bad about getting cancelled and ignored then sister asked if I was okay and it was very nice but I was not

- Got sad bc I don’t like my surfers eye and no one will listen to me complain about it

- Dance express senior gala

- Mr Stark I don’t feel so good

- Endgame tho man

- Got yelled at by manager for not helping supervisir B____ when I was one of the only ones that had set up anything and it felt unfair

- On Christmas bc I have to make a call to apple support to figure out my trade in

- Cried after trying to trade in phone bc I didn’t want to make a second phone call to Apple

- Got emo in sc bc of wanting to be included in things but then friend who it was sort of directed at saw it and now I have to explain it and the whole point of posting it is getting it out without hurting people but it still feels like it hurts people (ps pretty sure I discovered I have a fear of abandonment and neglect)

#meganmakesapost #crying #sad #hannah montana #cheer #frozen II #covid #Louis Tomlinson #one direction #mr robot #phineas and ferb #tw 13rw #dear evan hansen #hamilton #It #queer eye #sander sides #Larry #onward #gymnastics #new girl #glee #marvel

[unproduciblesmackdown]

You're so right about the Will Roland fanart problems. It seems like back when Will Roland was only known for Jared people were way more proWill because he could be their funny meme boi who ate bathbombs but now that he's a lead with all these emotional songs it's like God forbid he's not their "twink bby". Idk it annoys me so much especially when people draw the rest of the Broadway cast and still use WillC or do an animatic with WillRs voice and WillCs character ugh like. Accept the Roland pls

lmao we are all just out here grabbing the mic like “attention all bastards: Look, just because will roland isn’t your ideal fancast for most adorable twink of the year - “

really like, i have never come across any signs of there having been any pattern in the deh fandom of ~taking issue~ with will’s Abilities to sing or play the part of a struggling teen or whatever like what crops up re: him being the lead in bmc.....it also is unsurprising yet disappointing that like, jared and alana are so easily completely ignored, but when they Are acknowledged it’s super flattened interpretations like, either they’re both hypocritical jerks (just based on evan’s gfy accusations basically lol) or if they’re actually viewed in a positive way it’s just like, alana is your friendly local Model Student and jared is memes and neither of them are in the way! :3

you litrally cannot ignore jeremy the Whole Entire Main Character tho and also like. can’t ignore the fact that caring about jeremy as a Romantique Lead is ahhh important to many ppl in the fanbase? so him being regarded as ~less cute~ is more of an Issue b/c the character must be taken seriously and is the sympathetic hero and has a lot more solo material / more of Any material / more focus than jared does in deh.........you Have To Look At Him and care about his actual feelings and not just misinterpret the character as “has no serious emotions b/c he doesn’t say serious things in a serious tone” the way ppl misinterpret jared. there’s the assumption that someone who is good / sympathetic should also be attractive / cute / Personally Appealing To Look At and that wasn’t as much a conflict when ppl didn’t think it was important to sympathize / care about / pay attention to jared too much, and the “conflict” of caring abt jeremy’s capacity for a romantic relationship but that’s less important if he’s not as Cute also not being as much an issue when most people don’t care about jared’s romantic feelings or think that they exist despite jared being in love with evan But Anyways

like it is wild the things people will just make up to “justify” their Dislike for will, which has only manifested as apparent Issues thanks to him playing jeremy rather than jared........there’s the classic “mm idk i don’t think he can sing that well” approach which like. some people are just trying to say they do not like the inherent descriptive qualities of his voice, which is more nasal obviously and don’t anyone come in here with the “Actually the Technical definition of Nasal re Vocals is” b/c we know what i mean, alright? nasal voices are not considered ~serious~ and there’s the kneejerk dumb-annoying-loser-nerd association. god knows that jeremy heere canNot have characteristics that could be automatically judged as irritating and unappealing. then there’s the notion that He doesn’t have the (vocal) range!! which like. do you honestly think they would cast someone who doesn’t have the correct range. you’re aware that will roland was being considered for the part of jeremy in the two river run up to the last round of callbacks. you know that the song that was literally written expressly to suit will roland’s individual voice and singing abilities makes use of his falsetto which people go “omg he can’t hit those high notes” except sometimes when they misattribute his falsetto to other singers they suddenly find it worth complimenting. and then you get people who like, want to subscribe to this softened version of it and get all backhanded like “oh i think will’s vocals are improving whew that’s good” in any random video and always Only single him out apparently like. did you think he gets worse with experience? you don’t wanna talk about any of these other professional singers improving or worsening or anything? only wanna give ur assessment of william’s huh

honestly i for real haven’t seen the 1.0 version b/c i’m here via will roland in the first place & i’ve never gotten the impression that there’s some Essential Content i’m missing out on by having only seen 2.0........but between a) people complaining that will r’s jeremy is Too Frustrated He Shouldn’t Be That Angry It Makes Him Less Sympathetic and b) saying just as a point of comparison betwixt the depictions that will r’s jeremy is more frustrated and c) i haven’t read That much bmc fic but people sure talk about jeremy being like five seconds away from bursting into tears at any given moment which like, okay yeah aren’t we all, but also i presume this stems from will c’s apparently Sadder portrayal of jeremy. i almost forgot where i was going with this one but i think it’s just that yeah people truly take issue with will r’s jeremy being more frustrated and it’s like you realize there’s no Right or Wrong portrayal / interpretation even if you prefer one for whatever reasons......theatre just is Like that.......you have a slightly different portrayal during ever performance even from the same actors, and you’ll often have different actors playing the role........yeah people usually are attached to the first performance they see / have that as their Standard and that’s fine, it’s just like, you don’t have to decide that’s an Objective view and that you have Objective issues with everyone else’s take. 1.0 is still there for you

uhhhh oh yeah and the whole Clout idea lmao......people really putting themselves out there shaking their heads at the supposed fact that will was cast for the off bway run to Boost Popularity b/c he was part of the deh obc......besides the whole thing that it’s hardly likely that would’ve been considered necessary anyhow, there’s the little thing that a) again, will roland had already been very seriously considered for the part even before will connolly was decided on for the original run and b) like.....these people had been collaborating for eons and you really think will roland only popped into their minds thanks to being in deh....and c) joe iconis has repeatedly said they specifically did Not want to cast people based on who was Known enough and whose names would be good for marketing and d) maybe anyone has noticed that the marketing never involved any mention of anyone in the cast? no? cool. and yet people like so truly think they’re Wise to ~real reason~ that they’d go and cast will roland as the lead. like people are making shit up and really just thinking it’s true b/c they Want it to be true b/c they Want to be validated in having actual contempt for will’s casting despite the “issue” being that he doesn’t seem as Likeable (worthy of sympathy...cough...) thanks to his deemed-unattractive looks and sweetly-adenoidal voice and more-frustrated portrayal all seeming less cute or whatever

and i mean i haven’t seen it crop up of late but the one particular Grasping At Straws ~justification~ for will being unworthy of the part thanks to perceived acting/singing incompetence which is soooo wild is when people are like “ough i Hate when he just holds his arms out when he sings” like fmslkdj if anything that’s just an individual quirk and the fact that it was something you noticed means you just latched on to it as potential fodder for “the fact i registered this information abt someone whose existence i Resent means it distracted me which means i hate it and it’s bad”...like another thing he does with his hands while singing is when he makes the loose claws and kind of half crosses his arms in front of his chest! where are the complaints about that?? nowhere, b/c people have not really processed it as a particular thing, so they can’t deem it a Particular Thing To Criticize. people sometimes Notice that his jared talks with his hands a lot, which will says is an acting choice that came from an unconscious tendency, but people really only bring it up to juxtapose will’s jared’s dramatic tendencies and nervous habits with sky’s jared’s more outwardly still and smoothed-over behavior. aka they don’t Complain about it or deem it a weakness / bad thing. and yet people caring about bmc are really jumping on that chance to be like oh ugh there he goes again, having a characteristic i associate with him as an individual, disgusting, can’t believe will connolly was murdered for this..

it’s a bit clearer too with bmc moreso than deh that people aren’t super willing to accept how will roland Looks b/c like, thanks to will connolly’s jeremy having the long hair thing you can Tell The Difference In Which Actor Is Represented when ppl draw the character even if the rest of the features are kind of “generic” (and how even the costuming isn’t a dead giveaway since ppl will draw connolly jeremy in 2.0/3.0′s outfits) and it even serves to specify the actor in writing format too if they mention the hair lol........and honestly?? this fact is one of the most damning things lol in that people the reason so many ppl continue to produce connolly-based jeremys is Not because for whatever reason they can’t / it’s too difficult to draw a will roland lookin jeremy......like a lot of the time The trait which serves to distinguish between the two is the hair thing. people are adopting jeremy’s new costuming and stuff but choosing to make sure we know that jeremy does not Look like will roland and the clearest indicator of this is the longer hair thing......which also means that for many people the main effort they’d need to exert to make it clear they’re drawing wrol jeremy would just be to....shorten the hair. And Yet!!!! it is apparently beyond people to do this

like uh nice on making a lgw animatic but really.........really we’re gonna take the song that is specifically from the 2.0 / 3.0 runs, so it’s obvious we’re Accepting that non-1.0 content, okay......and we’re Accepting will roland’s vocals, which, a person’s voice is a physical trait of theirs too, same as The Existence Of Their Body........and yet jeremy Cannot Look Like How Will Roland Looks, that’s too far, can’t do that. we can take material from the specific versions the actor was cast in, that material being a song written specifically for this individual actor’s voice, in the form of this actor’s actual vocals......but can’t have the depicted image of jeremy be based on this actor’s appearance..............of all the......

really all that it is is that more people find will connolly more attractive than will roland and this makes them feel like will roland Is Worse and then the people who just run with that either just embrace that and are crashing around on public forums saying Lol i hate him cuz he’s ugly lmao....and then you have people who don’t wanna do that but don’t wanna actually examine why they ~take issue~ with will being cast and so they’ve gotta leap on any Other things about him that feel more acceptable / Objective like oh the portrayal is “Wrong” (that’s not how this works) or he can’t sing well enough (yeah he can) or high enough (yeah he can) or he was stunt cast (no he wasn’t) or they wanna label every characteristic / trait they can think up that Isn’t his physical appearance as Annoying And Bad like. maybe stop and ask why you find it SO pressing that this other actor has the part and it Must be objectively inferior if not ruinous for reasons you gotta invent about him being incompetent cuz it’s better to make stuff up about how a professional actor isn’t good enough for a part than to say you don’t think he’s cute enough and are bothered by that

it didn’t matter as much to people when they viewed his character as either Just A Joke or Just A Jerk or flat-out disposable material. being attractive is for serious sympathetic beloved characters, natch

unfortunately jeremy can’t be written off as The Unimportant Meme Friend With No Real Feelings so now there’s a whole problem if an actor is not as cute

like b/c of the way he looks ppl can accept that a character played by will roland can be funny or can be rude or can really not be too important to take seriously / consider complex or sympathetic or likeable beyond being a walking Running Joke, but when it comes to a sympathetic main character whose emotional state is so important it’s practically assigned a character and who’s a romantic lead? now people have a problem with him looking the way will roland does

#''grandma poison water SNAPPED'' post but it's me going off about people's campaign of insisting they dislike his casting for Totally Valid #and the common tendency to reject him in particular out of all 2.0 / 3.0 changes #won't draw him won't write him won't let him be the jeremy in the song written for him! #i'm not gonna beat around the bush on this topic. like it is just Nonsense #and it's all b/c people can't examine their kneejerk displeasure at jeremy being ~downgraded~ to a guy whose appearance they deem less attra #Anonymous

[biinarysttars]

Pride!

Djkfdghd I have more feelings about Pride. Like a Lot more. I should put this under a readmore but I’m going to force everyone to read (or at least scroll past) my thoughts

favorite thing about them: He’s a fantastic antagonist! He was so well built up to, and he was almost a surprise. I remember when I first saw Selim Bradley... well okay I thought he was the Fuhrer’s butch daughter, Celine Bradley. But then after that my next thought was “man I sure hope there’s nothing Up with this kid”, and as I said that I immediately knew that there Was. I might’ve started out as an Envy stan, but I loved Selim the second I saw him & that translates into my feelings of him being a villain. So just. Everything, I guess, is my point

least favorite thing about them: I mean?? I sorta wish that there really was nothing up with that kid. But I’m not that upset about it, all things considered, because then there would be no Pride so!!

favorite line: There are So many. I’ll limit myself to 2 because those are the ones that showed up on the website lmao but here we go:

"Stop this. Stop this. PLEASE STOP!!!"-- His last words. That’s so!!! Compelling to me. The begging, the shame, the desperation. Idk, this is the first we’ve seen him emote through the whole show, and what we see is Pride’s fear.

"Wrath and like do not exist in me. There is no wrath, or lust, or sloth, or greed, or gluttony, or envy, such emotions have fled from my father. My name is Pride."/"I'm not angry. I'm never angry."-- I love this detail? Idk the Pride I RP @pridesshadows​ is absolutely OOC but this is something I’ve paid special attention to. Also! He’s only ever introduced himself, to my knowledge, with the phrase, “My name is Pride.” So. Idk, I love it when there’s Details for me to pay attention to

brOTP: Bold of you to assume Pride could have a friend. That being said I know that IC Envy doesn’t like him that much, but like. On the RP blog I absolutely Love RPing with Envy so that, I guess

OTP: Bold of you to assume Pride could land a S/O!!! I mean. I’d smooch. But also I run the risk of getting killed. So. Y’know, give or take lmao

nOTP: Pride x anyone. Don’t put him near anyone. A canon thing that’s been said is that he doesn’t care about anyone-- he doesn’t think of anyone as anything but as a tool, and the second that tool fails him, he throws it away and gets a new one. Lock Pride in a box. He’s my fave but he deserves to be alone

random headcanon: I have 3 and they’re all vaguely related

His persona as Selim Bradley isn’t entirely fake-- when he was Actually that young, he had a similar innocent and curious nature. This was torn down after a few century’s years of abuse and whatnot

Pride’s main role is to pose as a student and gather information-- keep up with trends and language and things

He likes to cook, even if he doesn’t eat. He just likes to Make Food & then throw it out I guess

unpopular opinion: I really like his ending. I don’t know if this is a “popular” opinion but I once saw someone complain about how he “becomes” Selim Bradley for real at the end, saying that it “redeemed” him. First off. No. Pride died! He’s dead now!! Now it’s Selim Bradley, a Good Boy who cares about birds and does his best and loves his mom!! I went on a whole rant, but ultimately, I love his ending because it’s not his. It’s Mrs Bradley’s. She lost her husband and her son, and she learned the truth about them, and probably wondered what she’d had to begin with!

songs i associate with them: Okay this one is solely about my RP blog dfjkghdf but I have a Playlist that details Pride’s feelings in 5 songs over basically the entire course of the RP “plotline”. It has All Eyes on Me, his feelings when Father left the homunculi and by default, him in charge of the plan; perfect nothing as he tries to fulfill the plan as it steadily slips through his fingers; ‘Cause I’m a Liar from when he starts treating people worse and worse and starts lying to himself about the plan still being a thing; ECHO is his character crisis as he struggles with a “purposeless” existence; and finally, Ghost Rule is him finally admitting to himself that he’s given up. Also!! Evan’s concept comes from For Forever from Dear Evan Hansen, and sometimes I think about their wedding to Voices in My Head from Be More Chill, and also sometimes in the shower I sing a very emotional Requiem again from DEH, and it’s Pride’s Feelings about everything he’s done

favorite picture of them:

I did it really quick so it’s kinda bad but fgdhjkgh please Enjoy

#You canNOT make me shut up about my latch characters #I have to get up at 9 a.m. tomorrow but here I am awake two hours later than I wanted to be lmao #Also if someone wants I can post that picture separately #Also also if you want I Have thought extensively about smooching Pride so if you want the deets.......... I'll Share #Anonymous

[creepygamerpasta]

My Defense of Dear Evan Hansen

Okay, disclaimer: I wasn’t really into Dear Evan Hansen, so I don’t know the musical itself all too well (except of course, like everyone, “Sincerely, Me”). I recently read the novel of it (which was written by the creators, so I think the only difference is the fact that the prose doesn’t rhyme). I’m not a “day-one, die-hard fan,” and I do not have an obsession with it. That being said, I enjoyed the novel a lot. It’s not usually a genre I read, but it certainly piqued my interest for YA mental health novels. 

Why, then, do people hate it?

I’ve looked online for this answer, and I’ve been able to find some recurring arguments, which are quite valid even if you don’t agree. (Not everyone has to like the same things, I know.) So, here are my responses and counter-arguments. (Note, contains spoilers, and I won’t necessarily outright disagree with everything.)

1. The fanbase is annoying, toxic, etc.

This is probably the easiest to get out of the way. Yes, there will always be people within a fanbase whose entire lives revolve around their fandom. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing; who can fault you for being passionate about something? But it’s when that passion turns into hate or putting someone else’s tastes or general completely down because that person doesn’t like exactly what the fan likes when people get really angry. I’ll use an unrelated scenario to DEH as an example:

Person A: Do you like Taylor Swift?

Me: Eh, I’m not really into her music. I’m more into metal and stuff.

Person A: Oh, okay, cool. :)

Person B: OMG WTF stop being a HATER. Metal SUCKS. You’re just JEALOUS that she has TALENT.

...See? This is the same sort of reactions that people get, not just from DEH fans but from all sorts of fans. (I’ve gotten both of these exact reactions from various fans of different singers, actors, celebrities, movies, TV shows, etc.)

2. The musical is not that great, as in the scores and stuff.

I don’t see why this particularly angers people. I see this more as an evolution of the types of music in musicals. Maybe there’s something I’m missing here, but musicals exist for people to want to see them. And if the target audience is the younger generation, then it does not make sense to use music that most of them A) won’t like and B) won’t understand. I mean, Hamilton is known for its use of rap, (dare I say) “nontraditional” music in the theatre world. And people like it. 

Which brings me to the next point...

3. Young people (who obviously cannot have appreciation for true theatre) will expect musicals like Hamilton and Dear Evan Hansen to become the norm and for there to be a “big” musical every year.

...okay? So? Look, if people want to go to a musical, then they’ll go. If they want to go to another musical, then they’ll go to that one. It’s not rocket science. And as for this sometimes-unspoken assumption that young people can’t understand/appreciate theatre... Last time I checked, there were still theatre kids in schools across the country, so at least some people can.

And now, we go to the part of the defense where I rely more on the novel.

4. The main character (Evan) is neither compelling nor a good person, and thus, should not be the main character (and, by extension, the entire musical should not exist).

In the book, it is made very clear that Evan is not a perfect character. He’s a human being and has flaws just like everyone. His whole “pretending to be Connor’s friend thing” is less a manipulative move and more of “wrong place, wrong time, and I don’t know how to explain.” Though he’s supposed to be relatable, you are not expected to like him. Other characters question his motives for The Connor Project and his relationship to Connor, but with the first person, inner-thoughts, deepest-darkest-secrets style that the book has, it is very clear that Evan is (in his complex way) trying to help the Murphys with their loss. He does get a bit carried away, probably without realizing it, but even though he did not mean to hurt them, the guilt of his lies eats away at him the entire book.

Evan admits to lying, in person at the Murhpys. He knows that even though his longtime crush and now girlfriend (he even describes her as his soulmate and wants to marry her) will hate him, not to mention her parents, he cannot keep lying to them. 

I think one of the problems with DEH specific to this problem is the hype about Evan himself. As the audience, we want to paint Evan as a hero. Descriptions put him in that light. He does overcome a lot through the novel and goes through quite a bit of change, but he is not the flawless hero (or the one-flaw antihero) people want him to be. He is a human being, and I think fans and haters forget this or overlook this, despite it being such an important part of the novel/musical.

5. DEH makes fun of mental illness and doesn’t take it seriously. It falsely portrays people with depression, anxiety, suicidal tendencies, etc.

This grinds a lot of my gears. Mental illnesses are different for everyone. Is there some assumption people have that I’m not aware of? The assumption that people actually think that everyone who has anxiety or is suicidal will act exactly like Evan and Connor? It might not match up with every individual’s experience/struggle with a mental illness, but that’s kind of one of the themes of DEH: that people have different lives, different struggles, different baggage, and different ways of coping, healthy or unhealthy. Everyone has a different story, and no one should be left to deal while feeling alone. Pay attention to those around you.

The lighter-hearted music seems to also make people perceive DEH to be making fun of/not taking mental health seriously. Which is ridiculous. There are some serious songs in that soundtrack, and the upbeat “Sincerely, Me” is supposed to be from fake personas. Connor’s persona in that song is supposed to be feeling better as days go by with the help of his “friend” Evan. So, yes, it makes sense that would be cheerful because it is not from the perspective of the real Connor. If it were, the song would probably be a lot darker.

6. The musical is homophobic and makes fun of the LGBT+ community.

If you were to walk into an elementary, middle, or high school right now and overhear every conversation, I gaurantee you, gaurantee you, that some students would be using “gay” as some sort of put-down or otherwise make fun of LGBT+ people. That doesn’t mean it’s right or acceptable, but having two high school guys (or really one, seeing as how Evan does not go along with the joke) make remarks about two (supposedly) close guys being gay is not something new. This complaint probably mainly comes from the line in “Sincerely, Me” in which Connor’s and Evan’s personas deny being close for anything other than friendship. And honestly? As a member of the LGBT+ community, this confusion comes up a lot. Whether you are out or not, closeness between friends is often interpreted as a romantic or sexual relationship, which of course is not the case. 

Last time I checked, there wasn’t anything hateful toward the LGBT+ community. Jared’s jokes, while horribly sexual and inappropriate, were just immature. His jokes are essentially the high school equivalent of “That’s what she said.” I mean, who doesn’t know someone like that in their life? If I’m wrong, feel free to correct me.

Oh, and also? It is revealed in the novel that Connor did in fact have a relationship with a guy, Miguel.

7. People talk about the relatability of the musical without actually relating.

Okay, yes, annoying, but I don’t see why people should immediately fault this. You do not know the experiences or thoughts of people online and on social media, but this means that you can’t judge whether or not they do relate to something. The first thing that comes to mind with the word “relatable” when it comes to this musical would, of course, be mental health. Since the most notable characters both struggle with mental illnesses, it makes sense that you would expect the people who relate to this musical to also struggle with mental illness(es). But there is no law that everyone who relates to a character has to be exactly like that character. 

I’ll use another example from a different work, Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein. (Quick little note: Frankenstein is the scientist, not the creature. The Creature is actually quite complex and a deep character that is not the mindless monster from movies.)

Frankenstein: wealthy, a genius, comes from a high(ish) class, (presumably) handsome

Creature: neglected, hated for his ugliness, abandoned by Frankenstein, feared, smart

I doubt anyone was stitched together from dead bodies and then somehow reanimated. But you might relate to the fact that the Creature was abandoned or that people fear and hate him because of his looks. I also doubt that anyone has figured out the secret to reanimating dead bodies after taking them apart and stitching them together. But you might also (or solely) relate to Frankenstein because he lost his mother or because he feels responsible for a family member’s death. Those are some examples.

And there are plenty of characters that you could relate to or aspects of characters that speak to you. Maybe you’ve built a tangle of lies like Evan without meaning to, or maybe you have gone through a hard divorce and try so hard to get through to your child without success like Heidi, or maybe you really care about making a difference and don’t feel like the people who are supposed to help you take that seriously like Alana.

That about wraps it up. If I’ve missed anything, feel free to tell me, and I’ll make a follow-up post. 

Again, I’m not demanding that you agree with me, but hopefully, whether a fan or critic, you have now seen a different perspective.

#dear evan hansen #evan hansen #connor murphy #musicals #spoilers #please reply

[persona4ismoving]

Dear Evan Hansen Is A Mediocre Spectacle At Best-- And Here’s Why.

Dear Evan Hansen is a musical that hit Broadway for it’s opening night December 4th, 2016. In the time between then and now (roughly six months) it has skyrocketed in popularity. But I don’t have to tell you that. If you’re involved in theatre, no matter to what extent, you’ve most likely seen everything about this musical and have most likely listened to it or watched the bootleg on Stagedork. Dear Evan Hansen has taken the Broadway world by storm and has succeeded Hamilton as the show with the Midas touch, and everyone who engages with this show seems to be amazed with the shiny golden exterior of it. Now, without any disrespect to this musical and it’s fans, I’m here to explain why DEH is less of a gilded spectacle and more of a cardboard box painted in a thick coat of Home Depot’s satin finish yellow paint.

So we start out with the young, eponymous Evan Hansen writing a letter to himself, cheering himself on for the today. Okay. Seems pretty good so far, I guess. We go through a whole song about the moms not knowing how to deal with their children. Uh, okay. Immediately, it shows that these two boys, Connor Murphy and Evan, are neuroatypical. (definition: someone who experiences mental illness or any other neurodivergency.) And this is when the fear sets in for someone like me, who has been experiencing traumatic mental illness since the age of seven when I was homeless. This is the same fear most neuroatypical people feel when they’re engaging in media that centers around mental illness. Will it be handled in a way that’s believable, like Next To Normal? Or will it be handled in a way that glorifies it or otherwise uses it for shock value and/or just to intrigue people who don’t have mental illnesses, like Thirteen Reasons Why? Or, god forbid, it’s handled in a way that demonizes it and makes it scary, like Split?

The first key factor that made me realize that Dear Evan Hansen does not explore mental illness in a way that is believable and compelling was Connor’s violent and unprovoked outburst when he shoved Evan down in the hall, right before Waving Through A Window. Of course people with violent mental illnesses are going to have outbursts. But there was absolutely no reason for this, unless it was just to show that Connor was a big bad crazy violent kid, which is pretty much all of the character building we get since he’s dead within the first twenty minutes of the show. Another prime example of DEH not handling mental illness correctly is as follows: Evan stops taking his anxiety medication which is implied to have been in his life for awhile now and experiences no health repercussions (apparently lying and becoming a self-entitled brat cures anxiety, who knew?) even though he definitely should have gone through some form of withdrawal or something, given any psychoaffective medication changes your brain chemistry. I suppose both of these could have been forgivable, if only this wasn’t a show that centered everything around mental illness. A good source to read up on is here (https://www.theodysseyonline.com/the-media-glorifying-mental-illness) and it sort of covers the bare bones about why the media is covering mental illness so much-- i.e. because Tumblr is making it trendy as hell.

Another major issue is the characters. In my honest opinion, the only likeable characters in the show are Evan’s mom and Zoe Murphy, the sister of late Connor. Connor’s parents were ignorant as best, and truly selfish at the worst (If your son shows violent tendencies in elementary school, and you’re obviously rich, why not put him in therapy and try to help him? But no, that would take away from the “tragic teenager resorts to suicide because nobody cares about them” trope that this show beats to death.) Alana and Jared seem just as selfish as Evan does, even is Alana’s intentions are much more subdued. And as the story progresses, I even begin to hate Evan. How dare this kid do what he’s doing? He’s making a family grieve for the image of a son they never had, he’s exploiting the gruesome tragedy of a young man killing himself to get himself attention and to be a part of something, and he’s treating his hardworking mother like crap. I start getting so excited to see how this is all going to fall apart for Evan, and I hope that he’ll learn his lesson and realize lying was never the thing to do, etc. I mean, it opens up with him talking about “just be yourself” right? So the ending has to be everything blowing up in his face and him starting over again from square one but this time learning to be himself, right? Right? Nope. That’s not what happens. But I’ll get to that.

A major, if not the most major, problem in DEH is the theme. What exactly is the theme? I know it tries to beat you over the head with the ~if you have mental illness you’re not alone~ or ~you will be found~ but how exactly does it show us that? In fact, all I see is a whole story about the world praising and mourning a dead young boy who they never knew, taking his story and twisting it until they can relate to it, and all in all totally glorifying his suicide. Why is this is a message we want to send out to young teenagers (which is definitely the target audience here, since the majority of the fans I’ve come across are fourteen year old girls)? I also only see this dumbass white teenage boy get away with everything for the most part. The only punishment Evan receives is feeling bad a little bit. He didn’t learn his lesson, he barely got any consequences! In the end of the story, our hero is left not really having changed at all. He only gets worse as the story progresses, and the only way that he could have really evolved would be if his mistake had gone nationwide and he was held accountable for it. He even tries to make excuses for himself, and say that everyone just wants to feel a part of something. Alright, join a fucking book club. This is not the way to get involved in something, Evan! I’ve seen people say that, quite literally, DEH saved their lives, and honestly I just don’t see how. If you can see yourself in Evan and his actions, then you might have bigger problems.

My final point that I’d like to make here, and the one that always seems to ruffle the most feathers though it is the most obvious of all, is how much DEH literally exists to make money. Naive teenagers between the ages of 13-15 throw money at this show for merchandise, praise it like it’s the new god on the block, and talk about how Evan is such a soft, cute, anxious boy who should be protected. And I don’t blame them, I didn’t have a critical eye for which things are capitalistically engineered and which things aren’t, but now I can see that DEH falls into the category of being manufactured to be sold to mentally ill people because of how difficult it is to find stories on Broadway that embrace the the idea of mental illness as blatantly as DEH does. I don’t blame the people who love this show. I, too, am starved for media that I can relate to. But DEH is not the basket people should be putting all their money in. It was hastily prepared with a distinct formula for people to attach themselves to. Plain and simple, mental illness is making tons of money, and that’s all DEH is.

Of course there’s good aspects to this show. Ben Platt performs wonderfully, the acting is great, a lot of the music is sort of generic but it’s worth the listen, etc. But please view this show with an objective and critical eye, because I simply do not find this show to be as amazing as the rest of the world thinks it is. Everyone is always entitled to their own opinion and I’m not going for anyone’s throats with this, but I wanted to share my piece

Another good article to read, even if it is a bit cruder than this post, is here. (https://ladygeekgirl.wordpress.com/2017/04/19/dear-evan-hansen-a-tasteless-exercise-in-forgiving-white-male-mediocrity/)

#dear evan hansen #anti deh #anti dear evan hansen #deh #long post

[musicalrants]

Rant #1: Fake Musical Lovers

(3/11/17)

Disclaimer: I do not, in any way, shape, or form, intend to insult any musical or its fans. This is blog is just about me getting my feelings out where they won’t nag at me anymore. Please do not take offense.

WHY ARE SOME PEOPLE SO FAKE?

There is this group of kids at my school, for the most part they are nice. They are slightly annoying, though. They do a lot of things just for attention. Two girls in the group started dating (and let me say it is very evident neither of the actually like each other), one never stops singing any chance he gets and sings over anyone who tries to sing with him, and they all pretend to be musicals fans. I have been obsessed with Dear Evan Hansen for about two months now, and about a week after I discovered it I already had all of the songs memorized. I wanted to share this astonishing musical with my friends, and so I did. They don’t care too much for musicals, so it really didn’t spread too much. One day I was walking into Spanish class, and the boy I mentioned earlier, the one who sings over everyone, sits next to me. We’re good friends, though he does get on my nerves a lot. Anyway, I’m slightly humming Waving Through a Window, as I was just listening to the whole Dear Evan Hansen soundtrack in my last period, and he asks what song it is, so I told him.

Big mistake.

From that day on in that Spanish class he asks to borrow my phone so he can listen to just that song. He owns a flip-phone so he can’t listen to it on his own. Soon enough he has the whole thing memorized. I try to explain the story and meaning behind the song and musical itself, but he doesn’t care. I then tell him that I’m planning on singing that song for the school talent show.

Yet another mistake.

The next day, he goes around telling everyone that he is going to sing that song for the talent show, and when I try tell him that I was going to and he knew that, that whole group of kids that I mentioned earlier comes to his defense, saying I stole his idea. Finally he stepped down after I talked to him about it.

I was hoping the whole ordeal had blown over, but not even close. He then shared that one song with his entire friend group, and they, being the fake musical lovers they are, latched onto it instantly. I’m completely fine with other people loving musicals. What I’m not fine with is other people trying to claim musicals. Especially when they have only listened to one song from it.

My school puts on a production of some musical every year, and this year it was The Lion King. I was cast as Timon and had a great time playing the character and just being apart of the musical. The only thing I truly hated about it was the cast part after our last show. The director specifically put my best friend and I in charge of the music, so we decide it would be best to put on a playlist of Disney hits, so everyone will be happy.

It’s near the end of the party when I ask the director if I could put on a Dear Evan Hansen song, and she, being just as big a fan of it as I am, instantly says yes. She also gave me permission to put on any song I choose as long as there are no curse words in it. So I play Waving Through a Window, and I am pleasantly surprised when I see a few people start dancing and singing the lyrics (I hadn’t realized the boy I first showed it to had shared it with the other kids in his friend group). The only people who know it are the people in his friend group. After the song ends, I ask those who were singing if they had listened to the full recording, and of course they all say yes. Then I proceed to put on Disappear from the same musical. No one has the slightest idea what is playing.

This really pisses me off. All of these people were claiming to be the biggest fans and nerdiest DEH nerds, and none of them know one of the best songs from its soundtrack when they all “listened” to it. They blast Waving Through a Window 24/7, they shout it in the halls, they post about it on social media. They claimed it, and they only know one freaking song.

They also claimed Hamilton, which a lot of them do actually know the words to. I loved that musical, but that whole group ruined it for me. It was playing constantly during our rehearsals. It suddenly became the most annoying soundtrack I had every heard, and it was because of them.

Then, as the cast party was finally ending, they beg me to put it on, but I am not aloud to play songs with curse words, and about every Hamilton song has one, except one. I start playing Guns and Ships. They all run around jamming while I sit at the sound table, waiting for it to over. The song ends and I go to put on Wicked, which that whole group also claimed to love, but then I’m begged yet again to put on more Hamilton. I’m a pushover. I always feel like if I don’t do what someone asks me to do I’m the rude one. I play more hamilton and have to quickly turn the volume down at every curse word, because god forbid I do it too early or they might miss 0.5 seconds of the best songs every written, and oh my lord that is just too much.

Finally I’m allowed to put on Wicked. I chose No One Mourns the Wicked because thats one of my favorites. I expect everyone to started getting really excited when they hear the lyrics and realize what is playing (which if they were true fans they would have already known from the intro), but yet again, no one knows. Then I play Popular and suddenly we’re back to, “OMG!!! This is my fav musical!!!”

Every person in that group is the same. They find a popular musical, they ruin it. They find a musical I love, they ruin it. They find any great musical that every existed, they ruin it. No, I can’t even say that. They find a great musical and disrespect it. As far as I know, they only know of three musicals;

Hamilton

Problem: They have claimed it and now have overplayed it.

Dear Evan Hansen

Problem: One song is all they know and they think they own the whole musical now.

Wicked

Problem: Popular and Defying Gravity are the only songs they know and yet, like Dear Evan Hansen, they own it.

I understand that everyone has a right to enjoy musicals as they please, but the way these people are is just the most annoying thing on the planet. The only way I can put it is;

Think of the most valuable object in the world, whether that be a piece of technology to you, or something that has true significance in your life, but you do not own it. It is not for sale either, so the only people who can own it are the creators of said object. You have a truly deep respect for the creators and the object itself. You want to take it so bad, but you can’t. Then, suddenly, a group of people, who only seconds before found out about the object, run up and take it. They start shaking it violently, poking and prodding, then take it home with them, saying it has been theirs all along.

Musicals are what keep me going. I love them with all my heart. I have a playlist of 155 songs just from musical soundtracks (which are all FULL soundtracks, not just the most popular songs). By all means, listen to individual songs, listen to only the best from a soundtrack, but do not feel like you own it after that point. Musicals are for anyone who wants to delve into a story, but if only know one song and not even the meaning behind it, you cannot claim it. Heck, no one can claim a musical. Things like this are important to me, and it angers me to see so many people dishonoring them. I hate fake musical lovers.

That was long! Thank you so much to anyone who actually took the time to read this and consider my thoughts! It means the world to me. Again, none of this is meant to insult anyone or any musical. I can’t even begin to imagine the amount of typos in there, I was typing fast. I know most of this is cynical and can definitely be considered rude and judgmental, I honestly just needed to post this for me. I promise the majority of my posts will be positive from now on!

#dear evan hansen #hamilton #wicked #musical theatre #rant

[unproduciblesmackdown]

My only problems with that bmc theory you mentioned is that 1) bmc was already really popular and 2) that’s kinda body shaming Roland :/ but yeah I agree that he can’t really sing for shit lol. And I hate how his go-to thing when he’s singing (it’s super evident in loser geek or whatever) is to just throw his arms out in a t pose

you should have problems with every part of that theory because everything in that post is about how the arguments are terrible and absurd, and i’m gonna use this opportunity to straightforwardly lay out why all that is, but first let me talk about the problems you did find with it

1) yes 

the off-bway run of bmc is unusual because it did (and existed because) already have popular support/demand. they absolutely had no motivation to try to increase its popularity. they already had that fully covered. 

2) yes

nothing wrong with having a preference or an attachment to the first portrayal you saw but there is no real reason to legitimately dislike or resent will roland’s performance to the degree that anyone wants to act like they have objective justifications for this. i will freely blame a ton of this on the fact that will r is not a super lanky guy who sort of looks like elijah wood’s fey woodland cousin or something, and he has a nasal voice, and the fact people find this less attractive leads to this extra resentment that gets rationalized as some kind of problem they have with his performance. surely i will come back to this but for now i’m going to argue against my own fake arguments

they didn’t approach will only because he was in deh and thus ~famous~ or famous by association or whatever. like i said in an earlier post, they were considering will for the part of jeremy even before will was considering himself for the part, as he said he didn’t consider auditioning for that role until it was suggested to him. and then he made it to callbacks, which means he was seriously considered and they already saw merit in the idea of casting him for the part. the fact that he didn’t get it doesn’t mean he wasn’t good enough: people Don’t Get The Part all the time and it isn’t for any certain reasons. for example, earlier will got cast in the black suits, while george salazar also auditioned and didn’t get cast, and yet we wouldn’t use this as evidence that george wasn’t necessarily good enough. not to mention that will would’ve been getting involved in deh at around that time of the bmc auditions, so evidently he was already good enough to be involved in like, any production.

also, the part of jeremy wasn’t the only change in cast between the productions. and they didn’t seem to leap on the opportunity to get Big Names involved, and in fact, they’ve said they didn’t want to do that. and, again, they did not need a popularity boost, they were in the unusual position of already knowing they had an audience. thus there’s no reason to believe that will’s casting, and will’s casting alone, was some sort of grab for increased attention on the production.

joe iconis had worked with will for years prior to 2018 and it’s just kind of ridiculous to suggest that will auditioned for his play and got turned down because he was terrible, and it’s only due to the fact that he was then cast in deh that made joe go “hm that roland guy can’t sing for shit and i’ve just been too polite to Not cast him in a previous musical of mine and work with him dozens of other times but he’s in a Popular Broadway Musical now so hmmm, maybe we’ll make a sacrifice to the quality of this show to get a popularity boost we don’t need” like

obviously it does not make sense. will was not Only offered the role because of being in deh. and, by extension, he was not offered the role in spite of any kind of inadequacy on his part. or in spite of anything at all.

also there is no indication that will connolly was just like, ditched or something. initial castings and casting changes are done for any number of reasons. and it’s not like joe iconis exactly has a reputation for ruthlessly screwing over people he works with, nor does will roland…and casting changes are basically inevitable if a show goes beyond one run or has a particularly long one. and it’s not unlikely people will have a preference or consider the first performance they see to be kind of the standard in their eyes, and there’s nothing wrong with the end of someone’s run / a casting change being bittersweet, cuz all of that is just how it’s gonna go. but like there’s no reason for animosity towards the replacement cuz then you’re gonna always hate everyone but the o(b)c

again like. maybe people really aren’t aware that will roland was cast in a musical of joe iconis’s back in 2012? the black suits? ben platt was there? george salazar wasn’t? will was 1/6th of the cast and did plenty of singing. and that was 3-4 years prior to him auditioning for bmc and getting the part for the off-bway performance, and as people tend to backhandedly point out, he only gets better with time and experience, and he was already doing great vocally in the black suits. he did that 2012 run, and then the run tbs had in 2013 as well. like, joe had plenty of experience working with him there. why would he think will is bad at singing.

also will was involved with joe’s work even prior to his graduation

will was also involved with bmc producer jen tepper’s work prior to his graduation. had a solo in the “if it only even runs a minute” show

they’d know how good will is. they had already been willingly involving him in various works for years, over and over, prior to will auditioning for bmc. the fact he didn’t get the part the initial time wasn’t due to them thinking he can’t sing, okay. and already right there you have the issue that apparently a bunch of randos figure they just have better judgment than the industry professionals. 

also, you can prefer will connolly’s voice, but it’s not even A Valid Argument to say that will roland is a bad singer. like, this isn’t even about opinion. he is a good singer and this is an objective statement. He Is Very Skilled. his vocals Are Good. this is not opinion it is essentially fact. you may not like them but to say he’s bad is just to say either you don’t have the first clue what you’re talking about or are willing to skew your own perspective or just say whatever to pretend to justify this preference as “one of these is the performance i like better and the other is a performance that is inarguably Bad and Incompetent”

one thing is that will is so good that he makes it seem easy. he pulls off shit that you don’t even have to recognize as taking a crapton of skill. there’s all sorts of performances of his available and the way he’s able to emote during his singing isn’t just his also-strong acting, but it also requires the vocal ability to deliver quick shifts and jumps between differences in volume and pitch and soft/fragile vs forceful/angry and that requires a ton of skill and control. speaking of control and the stuff i’ve just said, there’s also a lot of smoothness to his vocals and consistency which reflects not only the quality of his vocals but also the control and endurance and knowledge of how to handle a performance within individual songs but also an entire show and also a string of shows.

like, dunno what to tell you. like i said before, these industry professionals think he’s good enough. the people he work with think he’s talented. i put myself through reading bmc reviews and i don’t remember anyone saying anything suggesting will’s vocals weren’t up to par, but i do remember a lot of acknowledgments about the opposite and how his performance is stellar and showcases great vocal talent and ability, whether or not the reviewers took to the rest of the show as a whole. and yet people who are mad about him not being will connolly have the take that he can’t sing. pretty wild how the people who would probably know better than you or me all consider will roland to be a very strong singer!! must be because they don’t know as well as various random people who resent will r.

it’s just a bonus when people argue he can’t sing the high notes. i’m guessing i need to say it’s called a falsetto? he has a gorgeous one and the way he’s able to snap right into it is kind of breathtaking? and the fact that joe iconis wrote lgw Specifically For Will Roland’s Voice, specifically designed to showcase and play to his strengths? and that this song, written by a professional composer to be ideally paired with will roland’s voice, features that falsetto so generously? hmmmmmmmmmmm

like, there’s so many amazing and beautiful performances of his online and like every available performance kicks ass and is certainly Vocally Competent but like, if you listen to this and think “he can’t really sing for shit” then you’re just telling on your own flawed judgment n Shit Taste lol…..like, again, to say he can’t sing is objectively incorrect.

also, there’s this. 

i’m also very suspicious of people just interpreting his singing as “bad” because of the fact that his voice is just nasal. or suggesting that he can’t have as ~serious or dramatic~ impact. for unspecified reasons. but what i am going to specify as “because he has a nasal voice and i have an automatic association with this meaning that the character is unsympathetic and a joke”

i now slowly turn around and pull down a slide reading “jared kleinman”

again, not like the “will roland was only cast for clout” idea holds any water in the first place, but it’s just extra good how his character in deh seems to be written off by like, everyone, from reviewers to casual audiences to most more-involved fans of the show alike, and largely overlooked or maligned, despite all characters getting an equally sympathetic treatment, and all of the teenagers being very similar in what their flaws and weaknesses are and what their desires are. 

like i and other people and mike faist will tell you, yeah jared’s character provides a break from Heavier scenes into lighter tone, which is necessary for good pacing, but that doesn’t mean that the character and the things he says aren’t serious or genuine. watch me avoid going off into a longer tangent about jared and bringing it back around to will roland: it just Sure Is Interesting that the character is one that tends to be seen as unimportant or even dispensable despite being absolutely crucial to multiple elements of the play. hmm

and anyways it’s kind of funny that you’d really have to already be a fan of will’s to like, make his casting in bmc make you care about bmc if you hadn’t already (#me, lol) and like. otherwise it’d be like “hey this guy who’s in bmc was in deh” “oh really that’s neat” and maybe it’d make some new people pay attention, but not to the degree that it would like, be expected to carry the show’s sales or anything lol. plus uhhhhh haven’t noticed the marketing saying anything about WILL ROLAND of DEAR EVAN HANSEN and you’d think that if they’d deliberately cast someone who sucks just cuz he had a part in a well-known show, they’d uhhhh take advantage of that? and yet. 

that theory’s total shit is what i’m saying

and it’s interesting that will has a nasal voice and isn’t Serious Enough and his Singing is Bad

by interesting i mean total shit

i’m also totally gonna say that people are mad at will for not being super tall and super skinny and seeming attractive to them.

absolutely gonna say that. there is a real, documented bias towards considering someone seen as Attractive as being more sympathetic than someone who isn’t. for example i am tilting my head 270 degrees when anybody decides jeremy is an unsympathetic character. i am tilting my head 583 degrees when anybody decides that will roland’s performance as jared is the Unsympathetic one. my eyebrows are so raised they’ve just graduated college. 

just yknow people are mad at will roland b/c they don’t find him as hot as will c and resent him for not seeming attractive enough and like, there’s the people who will at least own this and insult him for being too ugly for their tastes and their inability to keep their shit to themselves, and then there’s people who also have this inability to keep their shit to themselves but don’t wanna say they think he’s too ugly for their tastes and will instead be like mmmm dunno the way he follows the written changes to the script is bad………mmmmm idk he just can’t sing ://…………mmmmmmm his performance isn’t the same so uhh fuck him for not being will connolly………………://///……….

i don’t know if anybody sees him as fat rn, there’s this window of being Average where i truly cannot see it even though its supposed to just be Objective Judgment territory. but that sure never helps. also he just doesn’t have the willowy fragile body type of will connolly’s at all, no matter what. and that also cannot ever help. couldn’t’ve helped when he played jared either.

maybe it’s an utter coincidence that the majority of his film roles, where your body and face are always gonna get hq closeups, and in which we also have audio of one’s nasal voice, have him as Nerd Types who aren’t meant to be particularly sympathetic. not saying this is all him being typecast based on being written off from certain types of roles as characters meant to appeal to the audience / win sympathy, except, my eyebrows have now finished grad school.

in fact, although the realm of live theatre may be more “”forgiving”” of these superficial traits, it’s not as though will’s roles haven’t been largely uncool losers in various ways lol…but all of them have been sympathetic. he’s even mentioned how being cast as a romantic lead way back in school changed how people saw him. and here he is in a role where he feels like he isn’t allowed to be the main character even in his own life, and where he feels that he can be treated Like a well-liked, attractive person, but not necessarily be one. will roland is out here just outright saying how lgw is about himself and about you and about me (and for trans and non-hetero fans) and people are really out here going “he’s ugly he shouldn’t have this role” like, i’ll freaking slap you, lord

again. loser geek whatever alone is evidence that the take that He Can’t Sing is objectively false. and it is. move on. love yourself

also just thanks for mentioning the thing about throwing his arms out. that’s just like, one of the peak examples of “i resent will roland for not being will connolly but i need to invent justifications for this” and deciding that totally arbitrary things about him are reasons to be annoyed by him, and thus to think that there’s anything actually wrong with it. like, so he has a tendency to gesture with both arms out whereas other people don’t always do this? you’re mentioning loser geek whatever and it’s pretty crazy how when you watch him perform the song he actually employs a variety of gestures and you’re just picking out the one thing he does and going “ugh god you’re killing me will roland” like god….of all the arbitrary inconsequential things to focus your dislike on and pretend it’s a Legitimate Critique, this one’s a classic. if anything it’s a quirk that puts an individual stamp on things in the midst of all the other ways he moves and gesticulates during songs, but yeah, i suppose you could just decide you hate it. truly, between will roland putting his arms out and the people who see this as some kind of real flaw, whose reach is greater……..

anyways the point is none of you have any real reason to be bothered by will roland, and every “oh my god he’s so incompetent” take is ridiculous, and at least the people who outright insult him based on appearance are being honest about their bullshit since it’s all insults anyways. the oc album is right there. the performance with will connolly also continues to be right there. everybody just might consider why they’re so resentful of will roland for having the part, and also consider getting over it.

#if you're gonna be bothered by a role getting played by a different person you're going to have a bad time #the performance you like still exists #if only as an event that really happened and is forever etched in time and space #but i'm definitely entirely saying that if the person who was cast as jeremy #was considered to have similar sparkling beauty and sensor breaking twink energies as wconn... #ppl would be a lot less mad about it #anonymous #like how the 1.0 squip actor came to the show and was like yeah fuck jason tam i hate him his performance is shit #and how while involved in the off bway run will roland complimented will connolly's performance in another show but like #that's just cuz he was....being a cutthroat bastard about it #will roland