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drkineildwicks · 4 months

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Okay, woke up thinking about it, Across the Spiderverse rewrite

Because I have many problems with this movie even though I can’t bring myself to watch it

Stop putting politics into movies challenge, difficulty: impossible if you’re Hollywood

(“But Kineil, it’s just a badge and a poster!” Slippery slope, firstly, secondly that’s so they can remove it for other countries, which means it’s not from a genuine point, they just want your money)

But another of my big beefs is them making Miguel O’Hara…functionally the bad guy

Not antagonist, bad guy

Dude’s a hero, you really think he’d stop a kid from trying to save his dad instead of, I don’t know, helping him?

Also dad dying being a ‘canon event’ did we all forget that technically Uncle Aaron is Miles’ Uncle Ben moment?

Also why is Mig playing Madame Web’s role? Why isn’t, oh I don’t know, Madame Web the one who shows them all the spiderverses and tells Miles about the oncoming peril?

I know the Madame Web movie came out same year but we could have still had classic Madame Web in Spiderverse, have her handwave (and maybe even advertise) this by saying “even I have different versions of myself out there in the multiverse”

But do have it start with Spider-Man 2099

Miles is off doing his thing when Mig confronts him

Miles panics because in the dark and with Mig lunging him the latter looks a lot like the Prowler

Miles still has a lot of baggage there and him trying to process it all could be part of his B plot with his parents

He and Gwen figured out a little device that lets them visit each other and when—as far as he knows—an alt Prowler comes after him and starts owning him in a fight he runs to Gwen for help, Mig follows

Cue dimension-hopping, probably villain-fighting while they’re at it (show Mig helping in these fights in-between chasing after Miles), at one point they end up at Peter B’s house and we get to meet his kid without the whole why did you bring a toddler to a dangerous mission conversation, Peter B realizes the kids are in trouble, looks at MJ because this is going to require him doing Spidey stuff and he won’t be home before dinner

“Go get ‘em, tiger.”

Maybe we pick up Hobie Brown, depends on if pacing and runtime supports it

The spideys confront each other (point moment) to JJ’s heart event, might start fighting but before that everything shatters and they’re transported to meet Madame Web, who explains who she is and what’s going on

Mig finally gets to add context to what he’s been trying to tell Miles: that the spider that bit him was from Alchemax, from his dimension, which meant that Miles should have never ended up a Spider-Man

“I wouldn’t wish this sort of life on anyone, let alone a kid—this is my responsibility, I want to make it right.”

Miles considers this, maybe Mig has a gene cleanser (Spectacular Spider-Man reference), reflect on how much trouble he’s been having balancing the two halves of his life before looking at Peter B, who did finally achieve that balance

“I didn’t ask for this, but I have it now, and with great power comes great responsibility—I can help people, and I can’t just walk away from that.”

Heartfelt lines, and then Madame Web drops a bombshell that during the dimension-hopping some of the villains took advantage and in the carnage they’re going to wreak on Miles’ home dimension, his father gets killed

The spiders team up and run for the portal Madame Web opens for them, have the to be continued that incensed some people, roll credits, narrower scope and tighter movie

Because honestly looking at Across the Spiderverse, my feeling is that they got glutted with ideas and thanks to their success with the first movie legit nobody told them no

Alchemax goes after Miles because since he got bit by an Alchemax spider they view him as an asset and Mig is trying to intercept and make it so Miles is no longer an asset with the gene cleansers

Got the same dimension-hopping except we have the coherent villain in pursuit

Because in the 2099 series, Alchemax is very much the big baddie

And then have the go save the Morales family and the impetus for the third movie be that Alchemax decided to go after Miles’ family to get him to behave, outs him to his parents, maybe Miles surrenders himself to save his parents, looks back at the others and goes don’t keep me waiting too long, movie closes on the other Spiders leaping into the 2099 ‘verse (seriously if you’re going to have a villain Spider-Man the Superior Spider-Man was right there—)

#spider-man #marvel #across the spider verse #seriously mig is one of the four spider-men you play in shattered dimensions #and superior spider-man is doc ock #the alchemax evil corporation plot was right there #and we've already established multiverses are a thing #come back from a long absence to drop this and then disappears until bh6 month

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brawltogethernow · 3 years

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So if Peter wasn't around do you suppose MJ would've eventually become a supervillain

I mean, no, I think she would have just become an actor, though I'm curious to hear your reasoning. MJ before her character development isn't exactly a stand-out person, but her main sin is overly embodying the Just Walk Out skeleton, which buffers her pretty strongly against most paths to supervillainy.

Now I'm interested in how one could line up the dominoes to get there, though. It could be fun to use her superpower of secretly knowing the plot against her best interest? If we allow Peter to be alive and Spider-Manning, then stack the coincidences in the other direction from 616 canon so Mary Jane never meets him properly but befriends Gwen without Peter introducing them, maybe you could pull off MJ reacting to Gwen dying by going, "Okay, that's enough Spider-Man.🙃" I'm aware I just double fridged Gwen, and will try to balance it out slightly by pulling Rule of Comic Book Scientists and saying MJ arms herself for this confrontation with stuff that Gwen left lying around. And look, MJ isn't setting out to start a life of supervillainy! She just wants to smack a man she has a weird parasocial relationship with so hard he retires before the rest of their overlapping acquaintances die. Just a quick in and out job. I'm sure it won't get complicated. ... No. Sorry. You are ♠nemeses♠ now.

Actual 100% Parker-free dimension though... Weird legacy where an allegedly above-board professional relationship with Mysterio ends with her yoinking his gear? (I wish the recent storyline where he was her side character had explored the themes of MJ + lies and subterfuge through the lens of illusion, special effects, and showmanship, because that's a very interesting character thread to tug.) You could definitely throw various plot balls at Mary Jane to dig into playing her selfish, pragmatic personality traits out to their worst conclusion. There are good story possibilities there. You could get there with a basic roleswap where MJ gets some kind of great power and no great responsibility check-in, which I do think she would need. Or play out a dark mirror version of her tendency to resolve to stay away from all superstuff and then waver and go back. But left alone there's the least vague inevitability to her going darkside of, like, anyone in her entire friend group.

#mary jane watson #spidey #marvel #spiderman #asks answered #mirrorfalls

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jupitermelichios · 3 years

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How I would have introduced Spidey to the MCU

(bear in mind if this had happened in the same timescales as homecoming, this would have come out before Spider-verse. Spiderverse is good enough that I’m kinda glad they didn’t do this but hey, this is all theoretical.)

we start with an adult Peter - bonus points if he’s played by Andrew Garfield although that’s unlikely for reasons that will become clear - at the height of his powers. He’s an adult with a good job, he’s married to Mary-Jane, things are generally going great. He has a nightmare about Gwen Stacey early on his solo movie, so he know he’s seen some shit, that this is a Spiderman who’s been around the block a time or three.

He first appears as a guest star in an Avengers movie, some people love it, some people hate it, everyone is talking about it.

And then he dies at the mid-point of his first solo movie, leaving his protege Miles Morales to try and fill the gap, and he manages it, he defeats the Goblin and saves the day, but there’s no resolution to their relationship, Peter is just dead and Miles is just doing his best to cope.

Miles gets some cameos in other movies, and then we get to his second solo movie. And Peter is there. Miles doesn’t know why, but Peter says he survived somehow, he was just in a coma, and Miles is so fucking relieved, finally he has a mentor again! It seems almost too good to be true!

And maybe it is, because people seem to be afraid of Peter, and bodies start turning up with skin missing from their faces, shaped like a handprint, almost like someone with sticky hands has just...

But it can’t be Peter, obviously. Peter’s a good guy. Sure sometimes it seems like he doesn’t know Miles at all, sometimes there’s these weird gaps in his memory, and eventually he confesses he doesn’t remember being in the hospital at all, and he’s having these nightmares, or nightmare really, this recurring nightmare about a Jackal and a girl with blonde hair who he can’t save, but he’s a good guy. He’s Miles’s mentor. He’s his friend.

Anyway life’s hard enough as it is. He’s got this new science teacher, Professor Warren, who is a total asshole, detirmined to make his students suffer, and Miles is struggling to balance school and spiderman, he just wants to pass this year and make his parents proud. Although when he mentions this when he’s at Peter’s apartment one day MJ says that she and Peter had had a teacher in college called Professor Warren, and doesn’t know why Peter seems to have no memory of the guy.

Then on patrol one night, Miles catches the other spider-man, the one who’s been killing people, the one with the red and black suit that looks like an inverse of Miles’s suit, and he pulls the mask off to reveal... Peter.

Obviously Miles is horrified, so horrified that Peter gets away. He goes to confront Peter at his apartment, but Peter insists he hasn’t left all night and Mary Jane backs him up. Miles can’t shake it though, can’t shake the suspicion, and he and Mary Jane start to investigate.

He starts to realise just how wrong things are when he fights the Red and Black spiderman again and he doesn’t know Mary Jane, doesn’t know Miles, doesn’t even react to the name Peter. In fact when Miles calls him that, in an attempt to appeal to his better nature, he replies that Miles is thinking of someone else, that his name is Kaine.

He escapes again, but this time Peter is waiting to tail him back to wherever he was coming from. And he says he found it, says they won’t believe what he’s found... and then the line goes dead.

Miles is able to figure out a way to retrace his steps, and Mary Jane insists on coming with him. He tries to tell her no but she’s detirmined.

What they find looks like a warehouse from the outside, but inside it’s a mad scientist lab, complete with things floating in tubes of bubbling green liquid. Well not so much things as people. Well not so much people as Peter. Peters. And a blonde girl, about Peter’s age.

Obviously the bad guy is revealed to be Professor Warren, the Jackal. He was in love with Gwen Stacey, even though she was his student and dating someone else, and he’s detirmined to clone her, but he figured he’d practise first on the person he blames for her death - Peter.

He releases Kaine from his tube, and he and Miles fight, and it’s not going well, but Mary Jane manages to release not!Peter who joins the fight. Then Warren gets a gun on Mary Jane while she’s trying to figure out the controls to release the not!Gwen, and not!Peter knocks it out of the way, but gets shot in the process. Mary Jane knocks Warren out and Kaine takes the opportunity to bail. Peter gives Miles a speech about how he’s passing the torch, about how Miles is the real Spiderman, and then dies in MJ’s arms. They release the teenage clone!Gwen and carry her out while the police turn up to arrest Warren. Our film ends with clone!Gwen waking up in the hospital and jumping so hard when Miles startles her that she ends up on the ceiling. Hanging from her finger-tips.

And our post credits scene is people smugglers in Mexico. We go full Batman, something in the dark, moving too fast to see taking them out one at a time, until the figure steps into the light to rescue the girl they’d been moving. She introduces herself as Aracely, and asks his name, and he says it’s Kaine. Kaine Parker. Cut to black.

Any that’s how I’d use the 2nd most hated spiderman storyline of all time to remove Peter Parker, establish Miles and a version of spider-gwen as both living in the same universe, set up MJ as a recurring character and mentor figure to the younger spider kids, and set the stage for a TV miniseries based on Christopher Yost’s Scarlet Spider run

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hellzyeahwebwielingessays · 4 years

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Hello there, I was reading about MJs life and I always thought it’s kinda weird/cold-hearted of MJ to leave her sister and her nephews to vend for themselves after her mom passed away. Do you think it’s OOC? I can’t imagine MJ leaving her sister and two kids just for her career.

It wasn’t OOC.

We can look at it one of two ways.

a) It was selfish of her, but she became a better person later. One could argue that moment was designed as a parallel to Peter in Amazing Fantasy #15. Peter was selfishly passive when he stood by and unwittingly it hurt his family. MJ was selfish active when she ran away and knowingly hurt her family. in ASM #122, the night Gwen died, MJ once again found herself in a situation where someone she cared about needed her support. Unlike her sister who was actively asking and expecting MJ’s help, Peter was pushing her away and didn’t want her there, even though she could tell he needed her in that moment. So MJ made the pivotal decision to do for Peter what she chose not to do for her sister and as a result began to grow as a person. It was through this years of growth that she was able to confront her past in ASM #290-292, looking after her nephews, getting her sister released from prison and turning her father in.

b) She was a young woman who’d seen how committment (especially family commitment) had ruined her mother and sister’s lives; her mother in particular had recently died so she was grieving. She didn’t want that for herself and it could be argued her sister was seriously over the line in simply expecting her to give years of her life for her sake. It could be argued that what she did was not selfish but simply justifiable self-care.

Me, I see it as a little bit of both

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hellzyeahwebwieldingreviews · 4 years

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Untold Tales of Spider-Man 08: The Liar – by Ann Nocenti

I enjoyed this story a lot but objectively it’s very mixed.

Peter Parker watches off and on as a spider spends the day making a web. Later he watches as she waits patiently for a moth to be trapped, feeding on it. "How could I have anything in common with her?" Peter thinks. He both admires and shudders at the spider's "round-the-clock surveillance." And the web itself: "Her beautifully constructed home is also a death trap...The spider's elegantly poised web is a lie." Peter jumps up and destroys the web, then feels guilt about it, knowing the spider will just create another. "She can't help it. Lie or die."As Peter starts to leave, he receives a visit from Aunt May. She tells him that Empire State University contacted her because he missed several days of classes. She also asks if he washed something red at her house. Peter was gone for three days, confronting the Red Skull in Algiers and he washed his mask at May's place but he lies to her, telling her the school made a mistake and that the red came from a nosebleed.

At ESU, Ms. O'Grady, Peter's advisor, tells him that she talked to Aunt May about his absences and that May didn't seem to know about that. Peter tells her that May's memory isn't what it used to be. Ms. O'Grady tells him she's sorry to hear that. Peter thinks, "A big one. The two this morning to Aunt May were little enough, but this lie is a big one." Ann elaborates, "The little fibs are like annoying black moths, fluttering at the edges of his consciousness; shadows that flit about and dog his heels, they haunt him when he least expects it. The big ones are like rocks tied to his feet, that he has to drag with him wherever he goes."

Through the course of the day, Peter promises May he'll join her at 4PM to help with groceries and makes a date with Mary Jane over a fudge sundae at 6PM. Now he tells Gwen he'll join her for a 5PM revival showing of her favorite film, "Casablanca." "How," asks Ann, "will he pull this off?"

Not long after lying to his history prof to explain being late for the class, Peter is at the market with May. It is a warm day but he sees a man in the parking lot in a wool cap. Lying to Aunt May about needing to make a phone call, he leaves her in the market and changes to Spider-Man. He re-enters the market just as the thief pulls a gun and tries to rob the place. Spidey easily takes care of him. The store manager gratefully offers him "a cart of food, on the house." Spidey takes a look at May and says, "Hey, I just ate. But it looks like this poor woman got the worst fright. Maybe you could take care of her?" Which makes him look like an altruist when he's actually just helping out his relative. Back home, Aunt May tells the story to Peter for the third time. Peter notes that the story never changes. She tells it straight, never embellishing. She is grateful to Spider-Man but notes that his manners are terrible. "I just wanted to thank him properly. But he just turned his back on me!" When Peter tells her he has to meet Gwen at the movies, she comments that she thought he was meeting Mary Jane. "Oh yeah. Did I say Gwen? I meant Mary Jane," says Pete as the lies mount up.

At Casablanca, Pete enjoys sitting next to Gwen. "She's like a warm bed you don't want to get out of in the morning," he thinks. But he still needs to meet Mary Jane. So, telling Gwen he has to go to the bathroom, he slips away. He joins MJ for ice cream during which she almost lets her "party mask" slip when she refers to her repressive father. Peter notices a large bird in the sky and realizes it is the Vulture. Coming up with yet another ridiculous lie ("I promised this guy, I'd help him move his birds...he's got a pet shop, and he's got a big delivery of birds.") Peter promises MJ he'll be back in 20 minutes. MJ doesn't seem to mind. In fact, Peter thinks that she is acting as if she expected this. But he doesn't think about it long. He has to change into his Spidey duds and tackle the Vulture.

Unfortunately, the Vulture has recruited four partners and provided them with wings. The five Vultures beat him up, carry him into the air and drop him over the river, too far away from any buildings on which Spidey can web-swing. As he falls, he realizes his identity will be revealed after his death. "They'll all know what a liar I was. A lowlife fibster with a devil's tongue. A mendacious arachnid. A lousy deceitful cock-and-bull jerk. A two-faced stinker." Then he passes out.

While unconscious, he dreams about his Mom and Dad, telling him conflicting stories about their impending trip; the trip that leads to their deaths. "I was three years old when I noticed the first little lies," he thinks, "By the time I was six, nothing quite added up...All those lies. I guess they thought they were protecting me. Benevolent lying. I know all about it."He awakens seventeen feet above the water. There is a tug boat right below him and he webs the smokestack, saving himself, ending up in the river, then climbing up onto the tug. The tug's captain, Gallager, tells him he saw him falling and swung around to help. As they sail back to port, Spidey notices how capable Gallager is and he envies his straightforward life. "What do you think of liars?" Spidey asks him. Gallager replies that it depends on what kind of lying, adding that he lies all day. "Every time I give an order," he says, "it's to save the ship but risk the man. ..They trust me and I send them to risk death with every command...Well then, a few lies along the way aren't really lies, are they? Not if you bring all your men home alive." Spidey thinks about this as Gallager docks his tug.

He gets back to MJ who asks him if he had a nice swim. "What swim?" he asks, then he notices that his bookbag, containing his costume, has created a puddle on the ground. MJ, playing along, kicks at the puddle and says, "Rained while you were gone."From there, Pete returns to the movies, tells Gwen he couldn't find their seats in the dark and watched the rest of the movie from the back. "What a perfect ending," Gwen says. "Yeah," Peter replies, "I love happy endings." "Gwen looks at him queerly, then smiles. They walk on silently for a while. Soon, it begins to rain."

Let me say up top, this is the best Spider-Man story of Ann Nocenti’s career.

This is owed to the prose, dialogue and over all narrative being fairly straightforward and not told as through you’d skipped a beat. Everyone sounds like a normal person ( for a super hero story) and there are no weird lines making you ask ‘who talks like this?’

I should also point out the subject matter of this story is something Nocenti has explored in her other Spider work as well as her famous Daredevil run, chiefly through her most enduring creation, Typhoid Mary.

The theme of the story, as the title implies, is lying. Lying is practically systemic in super hero stories as characters maintain their secret identities.

It’s an interesting idea to expand upon that idea and examine the psychological ramifications of lying upon the individual and the impact it might have on their interpersonal relationships. For example could lying about your identity cause you to become a habitual liar about other things? Could this seep into that age old human story of the unfaithful lover?

That’s what Nocenti explored in her Daredevil run when she had Matt Murdock (ironically, or appropriately depending upon your POV, a lawyer and Catholic) cheat on Karen page with Typhoid’s alter ego; she was in fact lying to him at the same time and having an affair with the Kingpin at the same time.

In her ‘Return to Mad Dog Ward’ storyline in the 1990s Peter lied to MJ and Aunt May in such a way that MJ mistakenly believed he was cheating on him and considered running off with someone else.

In an even earlier story she did, a back-up from Web of Spider-Man Annual #2, she had Peter endure a nightmare where he was haunted by the fact he lied all the time.

Personally I think her focus upon the subject, especially in regards to cheating, raises some uncomfortable questions about her personal life, but I’m not interested in that right now.

The problem with all those stories and this one as far as Spidey is concerned is that she…goes way too far.

The fact is lying can and does take a toll on Spidey but it doesn’t open him up to lying as second nature about anything. He lies to protect his identity and anything else he lies about is just what any of us might lie about in the course of our lives. He hasn’t got ‘a problem’. And the idea it’s rooted in his parents being spies is pretty ridiculous and a massive reach.

I think what’s most problematic about this story in regards to the theme is that Peter would absolutely NEVER knowingly cheat on a woman. He’s just not that kind of person and yet here he is on 2 dates with MJ and Gwen at once like it’s a sitcom or Superman IV: the Quest for Peace.

In terms of Spider-Man’s personality and characterization this is just more evidence that Nocenti simply never grasped the character. Which is a shame given how she has written more Spider-Man stories than any female author ever; though Houser might’ve overtaken her by this point.

Her idea that Peter’s ‘problem with lying’ stems from his parents is also kind of contradicted by various stories that establish Peter was just too young to even remember his parents. This in particular includes ASM Annual #5 which she references in this story. I’m not going to hold that against this story too much because honestly no one keeps Peter’s parents consistent.*

Other continuity hiccups include when the annual happens in relation to Peter meeting Captain Stacy and MJ’s job as a go-go dancer.

However, this book has by now long established that these stories are not meant to fit into 616 canon but more a generalized idea of Spidey’s canon. If you try putting this story into strict continuity Peter was firmly interested in Gwen over MJ and the Betty/Veronica choice he had had been resolved for a good while.

This story though is meant more to touch upon the Betty/Veronica aspect of the Romita era and admittedly 2 dates at once seems like a typical Archie story. If you accept this as just a general AU version of Peter and don’t try to compare him to his canon characterization this is a perfectly legitimate idea. By extension the psychological complexity of this story works if you treat take this story in isolation or in isolation of the anthology as a whole.

Nocenti DOES to her credit explore the theme very well, the scenes with his parents and their lies resonates very well and speaks honestly to childhood hurts.

The hints that MJ knows Peter’s identity and her own family history are done very well. They are subtle, romantic and in fact so good I WISH there was a story that played with the idea. Although it does contradict later stories because Peter clearly suspects MJ is aware of his secret but ignores it.

It’s ironic actually that those scenes ultimately make this more an MJ story than a Gwen/MJ story in spite of that being the point of the narrative. Nocenti just charcaterizees her very well and even does Gwen a service. She is very much the early days Romita Gwen and there is a wonderful passage comparing the two and likening MJ to the sun and Gwen to the moon. I never thought of that kind of dichotomy but (before she became a water works) it’s a brilliant observation of the two women. She also does a great job of capturing the flirtatious nature of Silver Age MJ.

However, where this story falters (evene when taken unto itself) is in Noenti likening spider webs to ‘lies’ and the scenes on the boat.

For the former she is just over reaching. ‘What a tangled web we weave when we first choose to lie and deceive’. It’s a famous phrase but it isn’t actually saying a spiders web is akin to a lie. It’s saying the ACT of lying is like the ACT of spinning a tangled web. An insect isn’t metaphorically ‘caught in a lie’ when it’s ensnared in a spider’s web. Yet that’s what Nocenti goes for at the start of the story.

And the stuff on the boat is just…I don’t know what it means. The lies Peter engages in in are simply not comparable to the lies the boat captain engages in. Even if you lean hard on the idea of Peter lying about his identity for the greater good, what has that got to do with lying to MJ and Gwen?

Regardless, I think this story is mostly well told for what it is and I very much enjoyed it in spite of the mischaracterization.

*Personally though I defer to Stan’s stories that state he was too young to remember them.

#Ann Nocenti #Gwen Stacy #mjwatsonedit #mary jane watson #Mary Jane Watson Parker #MJ Watson #Spider-Man #Peter Parker #Untold Tales Of Spider-Man #vulture #the vulture #adrian toomes #Richard Parker #Mary parker

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traincat · 5 years

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So honestly, I've always been a Spidey fan but ever since I found your tumblr, my opinion on him has changed. I like the fact that Peter is sweet funny but can easily get mad . I love violent Peter in the way that it shows a big part of him that isn't heroic. His short temper is honestly one of my new favorite things of him. My friends don't actually believe me when I tell them this. Do you think you can make post showing of some or all the moments SM has lost his temper or has been violent?

First off, I’m glad you enjoy my tumblr! Thank you for reading my posts. Second off, for me that’s it, exactly. I like that Peter has this kind duality to him – to the people he loves, he’s an incredibly loving, kind, devoted person, and his sense of humor can be very disarming in a variety of situations, but it doesn’t mean he doesn’t have a darker side to him, and his rage is one of my favorite sides to him. I can definitely provide some examples, but like, this is representative of a huge swathe of comics: traditionally he very much does have a short temper and an angry side, so if you go back before the last couple of years, and especially before Brand New Day, you’ll find plenty of examples of this.

First and foremost, I’m going to recommend one of my favorite Amazing Spider-Man arcs, Back in Black (Amazing Spider-Man #539–543) which is basically nonstop this. Following Peter’s public unmasking and the wake of Civil War, the Kingpin has Mary Jane and May targeted; May is shot and ends up in a coma. Peter reacts violently.

“To do what I do best when I really put my mind to it, MJ. I’m going to hurt someone.” Move over, Wolverine. (Amazing Spider-Man #539)

“I break his hand. It snaps like dry wood. At another time I would’ve taken comfort in the thought that this hand would no longer be able to sell a gun to anybody, or pull a trigger. And maybe I will… later.” The lack of regret here is very notable. People love to use guilt as one of Peter’s biggest traits, without really considering what he feels guilty over. Here his reaction to breaking the hand of a man who was involved, however tangentially, in the harm of his family is that he’ll later feel comfort over it, not guilt. (ASM #539)

“He drops the gun as I break his arm”/”Pick it up. You’ve still got one good arm. Go ahead. (…) I said pick it up!” (ASM #540) It should be noted there’s heavy implication Peter would have killed this man, who fired the gun that injured Aunt May, if he hadn’t been interrupted. The story is what prevents Spider-Man from crossing the intentional kill line, not Peter’s actual morals. In case anyone tries to argue to the contrary, it’s a common error in Spider-Man fandom to attribute every instance where Peter wears the black suit to the Venom symbiote and its influence; in fact, most of the appearances where Peter Parker appears in the black Spider-Man suit have nothing to do with Venom. There’s a cloth version of the black suit, which is what Peter is wearing here.

JMS, who wrote this stretch of Spider-Man, loved a good predator-prey metaphor, with Peter explicitly portrayed as the ultimate predator. (ASM #541)

“I turn your entire respiratory system into one big solid chunk of useless tissue and webbing. It takes three seconds.” (ASM #542) This Peter vs Kingpin fight is one of my very favorite Spider-Man fights because Peter’s so deadly effective in it. He’s not worried about anything. He’s just fighting, and Peter just fighting is canonically enough to take out cosmic threats like Firelord. Kingpin is, ultimately, when Peter is unleashed from everything else, no match for him, which Peter demonstrates here. A friend on twitter pointed out recently that there’s something particularly brutal and disturbing about the above panel where Peter lifts Kingpin up by his skin as if it was his shirt, and I agree. The whole thing is a very effective piece of storytelling when it comes to Peter’s rage. The biggest thing for Peter’s violent side for me is that, ultimately, it is rooted in love and protection. His berserk button is either events or recollections of events where the people he loves are hurt. Here, May has been hurt, maybe killed. Mary Jane has been threatened and targeted. All the rules are gone now.

My other favorite thing is one very particular move Peter does when he’s in the depths of his rage. We’re most of us familiar with the fact that Peter can stick to things, like walls, which is a big part of how Spider-Man moves. But when Peter is really angry, he has a thing he does where he sticks his fingers to someone’s face and then pulls their skin off:

(Amazing Spider-Man #598)

(Amazing Spider-Man #637)

It’s ugly. It’s brutal. It’s some damn good storytelling. And while it��s less direct than these two examples against Norman Osborn and Sasha Kravinoff respectively, Peter also once played the psychological game and bet a child killer would rip the webbing – along with his own skin – off, rather than wait for it dissolve on its own:

(Spectacular Spider-Man #128)

More than angry or violent, I should note, Peter can be extremely brutal. But more examples of his violent side under the cut.

Back in Amazing Spider-Man Annual #1, Peter was referred to as the world’s most amazing fighting machine.

Peter takes on Harry’s drug dealers in Amazing Spider-Man #98.

As famous as The Night Gwen Stacy Died is as a story, I find it’s impact often underplayed by a lot of fans. In fact, Peter was very much intent on killing on Norman Osborn at one point within the story, and though ultimately he doesn’t go down that path, Gwen’s death is clearly something that haunts and triggers him in the future. When he thinks Felicia is being threatened on a bridge in Spider-Man/Black Cat: Evil That Men Do #6, for example, he violently reacts:

Some other examples:

Amazing Spider-Man #200 – a rematch against the burglar who killed Uncle Ben.

With Aunt May and her fiance Nathan Lubensky in Amazing Spider-Man #238.

Against both the killer and Daredevil during The Death of Jean DeWolff, a friend of Peter’s, in Spectacular Spider-Man #110.

Spectacular Spider-Man #120 – Peter confronts a thug who was paid to be part of a scheme chasing tenants from their rent controlled apartments so the property owner could sell the property for much greater profits. Peter’s sense of responsibility can, notably, make him a violent force for justice when he feels others are misusing that responsibility.

Spectacular Spider-Man #134 – note the finger grooves in the metal pole where Peter was gripping it.

Spectacular Spider-Man #135 – here Peter’s anger frightens even Mary Jane.

Spectacular Spider-Man #173 – Peter reacts to fellow photographer Nick Katzenberg making comments about Mary Jane.

Amazing Spider-Man #522 – Peter throws Wolverine out of a supposedly unbreakable glass window for making comments about Mary Jane! A pattern.

Spectacular Spider-Man #226 – here he is trying to choke out his own clone.

And here he is, baited into violently attacking Norman Osborn in Spectacular Spider-Man #250.

Violently attacking a fencer involved in the attack of his friend and first love Betty Brant in Amazing Spider-Man #665.

Breaking the new Vulture’s arms in Amazing Spider-Man #594.

Look, this is really just a scant handful of examples – if you comb through the body of Spider-Man canon, there are a lot more. Up until extremely recently, Peter has never been portrayed as someone who doesn’t have a temper, and a violent one that he works to keep in check but nonetheless occasionally slips. Anything else is a total erasure of decades worth of canon, and whether or not an individual agrees with this portrayal doesn’t erase the fact that it very much was the portrayal for years. And personally I think Peter is a much richer character for this violent side, and the recent erasure of it in both comics and the MCU, and for the past decade or so in fandom, is very disappointing to me. He’s a better character when he’s allowed to be multilayered, and traditionally he is. One thing to remember is that Peter walks around in his entire adult life with the strength of someone who can put his hand easily through unbreakable glass or concrete, and he’s not immune to having his buttons pushed. From a characterization standpoint, it’s not shocking that this is the kind of reaction he displays when he is pushed too far.

#peter parker #spiderman #marvel comics #traincat talks comics #long post/

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midnight-raven · 5 years

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The Spider Squad

When New York Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man had passed away protecting the city, the people felt they were left vulnerable without a superhero watching over them. The Government saw this as a weakness because if the people of New York kept depending on a mutant to keep them safe, then they weren’t truly safe.

It turns out that Peter Parker was not the only one who possessed Spider-Abilities. There were more of them out there.

After finding every single one of them, Homeland Security had all the Spider People transported to a secured compound upstate, where they can live secured by others like them, and refrain from using their abilities to hurt others.

But you can’t refuse the call of destiny.

Peter B. Parker

Alias: Subject 42

Status: The result of human-genetic experiments with Spider DNA

Backstory: Taken away from his family at a young age, Subject 42 had been the gold-mine of genetic evolution in science. For years, the human-spider had been put through training sessions, and other torturous experiments to improve his powers. One day, the scientists had people tour through their lab, and that’s were Subject 42 met Mary Jane. The only person in the world to ever see the suffering man that he was. At the end of the day, MJ helped him escape the scientists. She named him after New York's hero who had passed away recently but also changed it a bit. Peter B. Parker. The two eventually fell in love and spent years together in secret matrimony. Over time, MJ had brought up the subject of wanting kids, which frightened him. Because, while Peter loved MJ more than life itself, he knew that her life would only remain in danger the longer he stayed with her, and it wouldn’t be long until his past caught up with him. So he left.

Gwen Stacy

Alias: Spider-Woman

Status: Master thief, skilled assassin, and former partner to The Lizard

Backstory: An underground mutant experiment center was going around New York, abducting children to perform tests on. Gwen and her best friend, Peter, were among the unfortunate ones who were chosen. The first step towards evolution was to erase the subjects' memories of their past so they would be easier to manipulate. Even with their pasts gone, Gwen and Peter stuck together. Peter had gained Lizard-Abilities, while Gwen had gotten Spider powers. Years later, the two friends combined their powers and used it to take down the organization and set everyone free. Because of their repressed memories, and strange powers, the two had no place in the world except each other. “The Lizard and Spider-Woman!” New York’s modern, and mutant, version of Bonnie and Clyde, stealing to survive. For two years the duo had been on the run, but after a confrontation with the police, Gwen couldn't do enough to save her friend.

Peter Noir

Alias: Spider Noir

Status: A Private Eye from the year 1933, and is currently lost in time

Backstory: During the time of The Great Depression, Peter Noir had a job as a Private Eye. One day, while investigating the smuggling ring of Ancient Spider Statues, Noir had been bitten by one the dangerous spiders that been part of the ring, that granted him superhuman abilities. With the use of his powers, Noir took on the Criminal Underworld of New York, a war of a mob vs one man. Fighting Nazi’s, drinking Egg Creams, the whole pot! One day, a mysterious portal opened and pulled him through. Unbeknownst to him, far in the future, a group of scientists were creating a Time Machine and were trying to travel to the time of WW2. Their machine had pulled Noir out of history and into their time! Unfortunately, they had no clue on how to send him back home, which meant that Noir was now stuck in the future. Well, at least they still have Egg Creams. Turns out that in the future, there are a lot more problems than Nazi's.

Peni Parker

Alias: SP//DR

Status: A young prodigy with an alien creature attached to her

Backstory: On her way home from school, Peni discovered a strange creature lying in an alley. The creature looked like a small robotic spider, except it didn’t do much. Thinking that it was broken, Peni took the creature home to try and repair it. After hours, she was able to reactivate the creature and bring it to life. The two spent the rest of the day forming a friendship. Little did Peni know was that the creature she allowed into her home, wasn’t a robot. It was an alien creature from the farther depths of space. The reason the creature had been lying dead in the alley was that it couldn’t survive on Earth by itself, and the reason Peni was able to reactivate it, was because it chose her as its host. That night, as Peni slept, the creature attached itself to her body. In their symbiotic relationship, Peni and SP//DR formed a psychic connection, and their friendship only grew even stronger.

Peter Porker

Alias: Spider-Ham

Status: A cartoon character that was brought to life by Dark Magic

Backstory: After many failed projects and the loss of thousands of dollars, a local kids cartoon studio was under the threat of being shut down unless they could actually make a successful cartoon. Their last hope was an old scrapped idea: The Amazing Spider-Ham! In honor of their fallen hero. With dozens of jobs on the line and the risk of going into retirement bankrupt, the owner of the studio turned to dark forces to make sure that the cartoon would be the biggest success of their life. Using an ancient seance, the desperate owned contacted an Ancient Spirit, asking it to use its power to make their main character come alive in the eyes and hearts of their viewers. Unfortunately, the spirit was a bit of a trickster and once it heard the words Come Alive, it did just that. The Spirit brought Spider-Ham, literally, to life. Unfortunately, there are no refunds or take-backs when dealing with Dark Forces of Magic. When Ham came to life, his cartoon reality-bending abilities were brought to life as well.

Miles Morales

Alias: The Prowler

Status: A boy possessed by the spirit of his dead Uncle

Backstory: Miles had been with his Uncle Aaron when he should have been doing homework when the two were confronted in an alley by a man with a gun. Apparently, he was Aaron’s associate or something from his job, who was upset about something Miles didn't understand, that conversation ended with both Miles and Aaron being shot. When they arrived at the hospital, Aaron had already died while Miles was just barely breathing. No one could explain it but by some miracle, Miles had survived with barely any injury. However, he found prices for his survival. After that night, a shadow began to follow Miles around, he began having blackouts, and there was a familiar voice in his head. It wasn't long before Miles found out what was happening to him, His Uncle had saved his life, by taking it over. Aaron Davis had died that night, and it was the Prowler who came back.

#into the spider verse #Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse #into the spider verse au #spider squad au #peter b parker #gwen stacy #spider noir #peni parker #peter porker #spider-ham #miles molares #spider-man #spider-woman

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proofthatihaveaheart · 4 years

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fic rec list of 2019

Rules: Post links (Ao3, ff.net, etc.); specify fandom/pairing/etc; don’t answer the same fic twice - spread the appreciation; tag other people; you don’t have to answer all the questions, but leave them in the list so the next person can answer if they want.

I saw this going around and thought it might be fun to do so here we go.. This year I read an assorted mix of fandoms so we’ve got a lot of variation in here including The Adventure Zone, Brooklyn Nine Nine, Coco, Dishonored, Good Omens, Life is Strange, Lucifer, Marvel, Steven Universe, Tangled, and The Umbrella Academy.

1. Favourite complete fic you’ve read this month (multiple chapters/parts): strings by pathygen (Tangled, Cassandra-centric, s3 canon divergent) which was a beautiful and fascinating exploration of how anger can twist a person into someone else. It’s dark and it builds to one of my favorite moments in any fic I read this year.

2. Favourite complete fic you’ve read this month (one-shot): dance, dance (we’re falling apart to half-time) by gleesquid (Marvel, Gwen/MJ), I always want more GwenMJ fics and this one delivered on that, with bonus dancing and other Spidey characters showing up.

3. Favourite WIP you’ve read this month: tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow by fishycorvid (The Adventure Zone, Taako-centric). Technically Sy finished it this month but shhhhh it counts, it absolutely counts. This fic is painful, about grief and living on after, about how sometimes things don’t work even when you try hard to make them better. It hurts and it’s beautifully done.

4. One fic/series you’ve read which you keep coming back to again and again: A lot of fics could fit for this category but I chose Waltz of the Nian by QuickYoke (Steven Universe, Lapis character study with some Lapis/Peridot) because there were several lines that just stuck with me. Whenever I think of the character I think of those lines now. More generally, this is a fantastic character study about trauma and intimacy.

5. Most underrated fic you’ve read this year: Such a Cunning Disguise by WhenasInSilks (Marvel 616, Carol/Jessica, Secret Invasion AU). Mind the warnings on this fic, it earns them. A beautiful work that deserves more kudos but I imagine the warnings + Carol/Jess being generally underrated keeps people away.

6. Most underrated fic you’ve read EVER: nothing immediately came to mind and i was too lazy to dig through all my old fic bookmarks so i’m skipping it

7. Favourite whump/angst fic of the year: I got it down to two and then I couldn’t choose which one to rec so you get two recs for the price of one! Both are Marvel. another place, another time by sorrybaby (MCU, Carol/Maria, Carol/Val) because sometimes you love someone but you don’t end up together, very painful, very well-written. the small rain down can rain by tigrrmilk (Marvel 616, Carol/Jess) which hurts in a different way and isn’t quite as painful but is also very good character work dealing with Jessica’s feelings on Carol’s sacrifice and amnesia.

8. Favourite hurt/comfort fic of the year: I did not expect to read Life is Strange fic this year but then we got that photo of them in LiS2 and my heart swelled with feelings. I’m fortunate to have landed on this fic to read - migratory animals by swapcats (Life is Strange, Max/Chloe) is an excellent road trip post-game fic where the healing and comfort goes both ways. It’s the perfect epilogue to their adventure.

9. Favourite fluff fic of the year: I knew I was going to rec Carol/Maria for this category but it took me time to decide which fic and then I remembered this one existed - jambalaya (please be my baby) by carol_danvers (MCU, Carol/Maria). It’s one of my favorite getting-together fics for them and it’s full of fluffy moments.

10. Favourite smut fic of the year: nope

11. Favourite gen fic of the year: Try Again by pprfaith (The Umbrella Academy, multi-POV) which is absolutely the type of TUA fic I wanted after finishing the show. There’s lots of hurt/comfort, lots of good sibling dynamics, lots of confronting trauma and healing from it. It’s good.

12. Favourite fix-it fic of the year/ever: It’s not so much that I think the ending of CM needed fixing in any way, it worked really well and that final shot of Carol looking down on her home before blasting off is superb, but also I really wanted to read fics where she stayed with her family. Also fics that made their relationship romantic. This was my favorite of that type - Lightning Crash by Monochrome_girl (MCU, Carol/Maria).

13. Favourite crack-fic fic of the year: I didn’t read any

14. Favourite sick-fic this year: I don’t think I read any this year... but I did read fics where people patched injuries up so I’m reccing brave face talk so lightly by lesbiyawn (MCU, Carol/Maria)

15. Favourite kid-fic this year: With the exception of Captain Marvel fics which featured Monica, I didn’t read any kid-fic and it would be a stretch to call those fics kid-fic because they were more fics that just happened to feature a kid as a character? But then this is also a stretch, it’s pregnancy fic but also is it? and anyway I enjoyed it so it deserves a rec - oh violets, you did so signify by fruitwhirl (Brooklyn Nine Nine, Jake/Amy)

15. Fic this year which you didn’t expect to love as much as you do: Jasper/Lapis is not a ship I considered reading but I love everything anistar_e writes so I figured why not read her SU fic? And I did and I was blown away by this one in particular - Favor for Your Four-Chambered Heart by anistar_e (Steven Universe, Jasper/Lapis, Never Let Me Go AU) which balances themes of freedom, self-determination, and power in a world where your only purpose is to die for others beautifully. People make mistakes but they’re allowed to grow and become better. I just really love this fic with all my heart.

16. Fic which convinced you to ship a pairing: in oakland by hupsoonheng (MCU, Erik/Sam) which set Erik/Sam before me, a pairing I had never considered, and wove a story about two hurting teenage boys finding love over the course of a summer. It’s beautifully done.

17. Favourite AU you’ve read this year: It was between this and the SU Never Let Me Go AU and since that one fit a different category, I decided to put this one here. Choose Your Faces Wisely by Poetry (Good Omens, Aziraphale/Crowley). It’s a Daemon AU with some really neat concepts about the daemons of supernatural beings and some really good character stuff, which are some of my favorite things in daemon fic.

18. Longest fic/series you’ve read this year: I read many long fics this year but Work of All Saints by anistar_e (Coco, Imelda-centric with Ernesto/Hector/Imelda, 210k) was by far the longest. And what a masterpiece it was! It’s basically a novel with the amount of world-building and character development it does, a grand epic that is incredibly personal in its scope. Spectacular!

19. The last fic you’ve read: I got back into playing Dishonored 2 over the break and as a result, I decided to read some fic for it. This one popped up on multiple rec lists and I can see why. tetralogy of fallot by patho (Dishonored, Emily-centric) is short, 10 sections of 100 words each, and still manages to craft a haunting narrative about High Chaos Emily’s reign.

20. Wildcard fic you haven’t mentioned but deserves a shout-out + why: I was stuck between two fics I really wanted to mention and so I decided to rec both (the more recs, the merrier!):

And There Was Light by ariaadagio (Lucifer, Lucifer/Chloe, 143k) which branches off from the end of season 2 and spins a long tale of existential angst, love, and navigating human-divine relations.

Salinity (And Other Measurements of Brackish Water) by drawlight (Good Omens, Aziraphale/Crowley) which is a shorter fic that reads like poetry.

Tagging @startofamoment, @thinbottomedcauldron, @dmigod, @thornscrowned, and anyone else who wants to do it!

#fic recs #there's a lot of fic that i didn't include #so i'll still do one of my monthly-but-not-really-monthly-anymore rec lists sometime this week #for now though! celebrating end of 2019 by highlighting some of my favorite fics of the year #long post

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wildlyfamousmusic · 4 years

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Another message to Webweildingavenger

Bullshit.

You are essentially arguing that if Gwen Stacy came back and the Green Goblin killed her but it was ‘different’ that’d be okay, even though it’s literally the same versions of the characters. I’m not even talking about an AU or an adaptation I’m talking about Sandman having TWO heartfelt sombee death stories in his canonical biography. This may surprise you but most people die just the once in real life, therefore that should ideally extend to fictional characters intended to be reflections of us too.

Uh huh. And just because Sandman is dying, doesn’t make this story any less bad nor intriguing. Infact, it could be a heartfelt story and one that could serve an importance later on or at least an impact.

Killing off Sandman is inherently stupid in the first place as you are removing one of Spider-Man’s more memorable villains off the table, but literally having the same concept behind the story is asinine.

I don’t see the point. Sandman could be dying. Or at least lead to something interesting that could serve Spidey and him. Something to do with that depending on what the story may take. It’s not as bad as randomly killing off characters good or evil in poor taste unlike the previous run.....

This isn’t like Hunted where killing Kraven again for starters wasn’t the same concept but more specifically was a means to an end, that end being course correcting the fact he ever came back.

Yep. That was the best part. This however is different for a story like Sandman compared to others.

With Sandman Zdarsky, as is routine with him, arbitrarily ignored whatever he wanted and ploughed on ahead with HIS version of Sandman’s death rooted in the same concept.

Same concept with an interesting idea. Whatever Flint was going through compared to his other experience, it could lead somewhere.

So what’s next?

Are we going to go ahead and accept Aunt May finding out Peter is Spider-Man again if it ignores that she already knew or indeed that she finds out after she finds him beat up and they have an issue long conversation about it? Will it be okay for Kingpin to target Aunt May prompting Spider-Man to kill him again?

None of those would likely be what Sandman had gone through. Whatever Aunt May’s death would be, it should be a satisfying and impactful end to her character.

“Really,it honestly shows you have some kind of feelings towards Zdarsky.”

a) Duh I hate his work because it sucks shit and

No, not really.

b) I can say the same of you in the opposite direction

“Ho early, his work had been great under Spidey.”

No, it absolutely has not. As I’ve pointed out time and time again it’s shit.

And your reasons weren’t good enough nor really fair and I brought up how they were. you just didn’t respond or accept it.

"Honestly, Nick Spencer is great. But,even his stuff has problems.”

Never said it didn’t. I critiqued Hunted and his second issue and his latest issue in fact and even the issue where MJ opens up to the therapy group.

Yes, he has some good stuff and great stuff. But, his strength his missing. He needs to put in more of those strength.

But there is a difference between having problems but being good on balance and killing off Sandman AGAIN, having Jameson find out AGAIN but ignoring what happened the first time he knew, establishing Spidey has a secret agent secret sister from his secret agents parents’ secret pregnancy and having an embarassing lack of knowledge about how the Cold War worked!

Stuff with Jameson was not how we wanted. But, it’s a start. And the stuff prior to it like his annual was fine enough. Teresa was one fans from what I’ve seen wanted back and were interested in see how much she could play into the mythos. infact, it would not be just Zdarsky who would find her interesting but so would Nick Spencer, Gerry Duggan, Donny Cates, and may other writers.

“Like, some of his stories aren’t strong enough. Even Hunted which had a strong beginning and end had a pretty weak middle that was holding back on things.”

The middle wasn’t weak, it had weaknesses that’s not the same thing.

Weak, Weaknesses, same thing. And if you read my previous message you would understand why. It didn’t feel like the horror survival that it could. It felt like it was holding itself back. just putting some filler HU like Vulture. The middle could’ve been stronger if it felt more like a horror survival.

Game of Thrones had a strong start but grew weak in the middle and ended weakly. The Infinity Saga had weaknesses at various points but none of the 3 phrases were weak. See the difference?

Game Of Thrones was a series with plenty of episodes that had 8 seasons. Infinity Saga had a strong beginning, middle, and end with what has been given to us. Hunted is an arc that had a strong beginning and end but had a weak middle for many reasons like it didn’t feel horrifying enough, the HUs like Vulture weren’t strong enough, the deaths in the survival weren’t hard hitting aside from Gibbon, things with Vermin before the end was bizarre, everything in the middle felt like it was holding back.

“Really, as much as Nick Spencer is bringing things back, his writing isn’t really shown the same when it comes to the level of quality like Zdarsky and even Donny Cates.”

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Okay I loves Cates and I’m not going to criticise him. His work is very strong. As strong as Spencer’s? I’d say just different, neither better nor worse. I think some of the concepts he comes up with could be communicated a little better and he ignores continuity to an extent but the continuity he ignores in his Venom run is stuff that’s already a mess anyway.

Yeah, That strong.

As for Zdarsky ***** please.

Zdarsky is a better Spider-Man writer than Spencer.

Let’s put aside how if that’s true it’s incredibly unlikely that Spencer would’ve gotten that gig instead of Zdarsky. Zdarsky was popuiar at a time when Spencer was reviled. Zdarsky had well recieved work on actual Spider-Man projects whilst Spencer merely had Superior Foes, an acclaimed book not actually about Spider-Man and circa 2018 a long since cancelled title.

How the flying fuck exactly can Zdarsky, the dude who literally IGNORED Jameson’s decades long characterization, his co-writer Slott’s own continuity regarding the mind wipe AND mere 10 year old continuity, be doing a good job?

Be better than Slott. you see, for a while, we had so much bad stuff from Slott that he basically nearly ruined everything that made the Spider-Man Mythos so unique and brilliant. Zdarsky was the guy to help fix things for a while with better writing, impactful stories, brilliant handlings of the characters, and a much more satisfying end to his run before Nick Spencer took over to fix things and bring some interesting stuff as well as Tom Taylor who mostly has some good stuff and sometimes not and Donny Cates who’ve brought some interesting things. Same with Saladin Ahmed for Miles.

Do you get it? That’s OBJECTIVELY BAD writing!

Read my previous post ontop. No, it’s not. It’s Really not.

Spencer meanwhile went ahead and refamiliarized himself with most Spider-Man stories, used that stuff and generally keeps it in line, keeping everyone in character and consistent to their established characterization.

yes, but while he does that, what I want is better and stronger writing. What he needs is to make things stronger. Because if there were ever story arcs we would expect in the near future, he needs to make them stronger. And so far, his 2099 arc seems to be that/

When he killed someone off a second time he did it with the explicit intention of fixing the fact he ever came back and acknowledging the prior time he died. The story was also different in concept to the original, not the same general idea at all.

Same with Zdarsky. But, the story with Nick Spencer was a very brilliant conclusion to Kraven and a brilliant take on the story at the end.

Zdarsky had Spider-Man go on adventures in time travel and alien crap before following up with the single most overrated Spider-Man mini/AU of all time where he systemically wrote Peter, MJ, and indeed most everyone out of character and failed to demonstrate even basic knowledge of real life history.

Aliens and other stuff. But, it did give The Tinkerer a very interesting take making him relatable to his views on humanity and an interesting backstory when he confronted Spidey at the end. Plus, the time travel stuff was very well handled bringing in some interesting stuff, emotional and impactful moments, some interesting results, and some brilliant high end struggle. The stuff was bizarre but handled well. Especially with what it’s like meeting your past self and fix all those mistakes and teaching him to be a better person.

The stuff with the Nukes was already explained and the stuff took place while the heroes were in Secret Wars.

Spencer in contrast deconstructed Peter’s character in 5 issues before reconstructing him and realigning him at the very least closer to who he is as opposed to what Slott, the BND staff and yes Zdarsky himself contorted him into for over 10 years.

No, Zdarsky did him well before Nick took over. He just made him more competent before Nick fixed his life. Like I said, woth Zdarsky, Peter

Made sacrifices for himself

made a villain a better person.

ouytbested the other heroes and foes.

fought off against a team of SWATs while they were gonna bring harm to his neighbors if he didn’t show.

turned himself in to save his Aunt May

Nearly risked his life to save all life

taught his younger self to be a better person

Gave Sandman the opportunity to have his final moments even nearly revealing himself especially since he sees the good in Flint at the end like he always had

Get treated with respect from the other heroes instead of being made fun of or look like an idiot

the final issue of his run.

stuff like that before Ni9ck took over. See what I mean when I said you ignore most pf what Zdarsky did. and compared to the likes of Slott, Waid, Bendis, and the others during BND, Zdrasky did it better. Better before Nick Spencer took over. Better before Sean Ryan took over. And as good as Donny Cates got involved.

Nick was fixing things and did some good and great things. But, compared to the strength in quality, it hasn’t picked up yet. And since his issue 29, Absolute Carnage Tie In, and first chapter of his 2099 arc, it looks like it’s starting to pick up. And what Nick needs is that level of quality in his work.

Shit dude, Spencer even USED Zdarsky’s own continuity better than he did in the Lifetime Achievement arc where he gave us a potted summation of exactly who Jameson is!

No, not really. His Jamson arc was good. But, like I said, the quality of his work needed to be stronger.

Zdarsky throughout his run has REJECTED the idea of the wider Marvel universe intruding upon Peter’s adventures and thereby making him look weaker and less competent as a result. Zdarsky WASTED a 300th issue on that and followed it up with a shitty Black Cat story.

HOW? He bested both TChalla and Hawkeye making them look like fools, he bested the Six, tried to outbest The Tinkerer, Beated Norman Osborn while trying to save his Aunt May and his younger self, made the boldest sacrifice in trying to stop The Tinkeer, made the Tinkerer into a better person connecting his essence with his, bested Norman’s police force, bested the SWAT team while he was on the run and while his neighbors were at risk from them, gave Sandmam his final moments. Please. Tell Me. How Did He Make Peter Entirely Incompetent The entire time. Because From What I’ve Seen, He Made The EXACT OPPOSSITE. I can expect a few hang ups from Nick’s take. But, neither of them were incompetent at all. it just shows you have some problems with Zdarsky overall. And whatever that is, you need to deal with that.

Also, his Black Cat story was suppose to be a gag issue. Infact, it was a Parody of Tom King’s Wedding arc of Batman and Catwoman in that exact moment Bruce proposed to Selina. Look it up.

Spencer took the Gibbon and in one issue wrote one of the best single issue Spider-Man stories of this decade. Zdarsky decided to take the Tinkerer and retcon that he WAS in fact associated with aliens, an idea so stupid Lee and Ditko distanced themselves from it and other better writers further buried that idea in the 1980s.

The Gibbon issue was good. But, Zdarsky made the thing with The Tinkerer better making him more relatable as well as getting some personal backstory he held for so long.

Shall we compare their pet projects? Okay.

Life Story vs. Superior Foes.

On the one hand a side splitting story that develops a C or D list character into a fan favourite and on the other a story that is so idiotic it thinks that that America wouldn’t simply win the Vietnam War if they had fucking superheroes on their side!

Nick made that work. So did Zdarsky, infact, many writers can make many C and D list characters better.

So….Spencer is worse than Zdarsky how again?

Not to mention btw, it’s pretty weak to try and build up Zdarsky by throwing shade at Spencer.

You make it li9ke you claim Spider-Man wasn’t better until Spencer took over which isn’t really the case especially with the @#$% Bendis, Slott, Waid, and the rest had given us before Zdarsky took over. So saying a brilliant writer handle come to fix things hadn’t existed is pretty insulting. Especially since a writer like Spencer, while he is fixing things, hasn’t reached to the level of quality it needed to be. And so far, his issue 29, Absolute Carnage, and 2099 were the strongest we’ve ever gotten in a while. I don’t hate Nick Spencer nor do I find him anything bad. What I want is that his work needs to be in the level of Quality as it should.

“Honestly, the best one he had since his first 4-5 issues of his ASM was his Absolute Carnage Tie in.”

a) There were 2 tie-in issues

Yes, both good.

b) Many people, myself would argue ASM #29 was better

29 was great. But the tie ins were an improvememt.

c) Even if one disagrees with that ASM #29 is simply different to the Absolute Carnage tie-in issues as they are distinctly different types of stories

d) Even if those WERE the best that doesn’t support any kind of argument against Spencer because 4/5 of the last 5 issues were good, just because one or two of them were the best of the bunch doesn’t discredit him. Shit the last 5 issues weren’t even BAD!

I’m not saying the last 5 were bad. The Syndicate arc was a bit weak but good. But, it’s not up to the same level of quality as issue 29, Absolute Carnage Tie In, and 2099 later on.

e) If hypothetically the Absolute Carnage tie-ins WERE the best issues he did out of the last 5 how does this devalue Spencer? Spencer made 2 issues hijacking his book due to an event, in which the inherently asinine idea of Norman as Carnage was a thing, work to exceptional effect. That doesn’t devalue him that shows you how skilled he is.

Yes, that’s what I meant when his story on that was the best. And his 2099 seems to be reaching there as well.

“Honestly,he has alot of stories to unfold in the future. And if he continues to hold back on them,then he Really needs either a co-writer or just put more thought into them.”

Please. Just cut the shit okay.

You are at this point dissing Spencer who doesn’t deserve it (’he needs a co-writer’ my ass) to build up your favourite horse.

I’m not dissing him as a writer. I Want him to be greater. I Want him to reach that level of quality. If you ignored a previous writer’s best work and said none of the stuff ever happened Before that writer showed up even though that writer’s quality is not up to par, it’s not only ignorant, but, also insulting. After all this time Spider-Man fans suffered, saying this type of @#$% is insulting. And Really, I Want Nick Spener to Reach that level of work. And if we ever get to a very important story arc or more like with some very important ones like Goblin, Kindred, Otto, and stuff, then Nick Spencer NEEDS to put in that same level of quality. otherwise the whole thing would suffer and be for nothing.

#hellzyeahthewebwieldingavenger #nick spencer #chip zdarsky #donny cates #spider-man #spider-man 2099 #goblin #jj jameson #tinkerer

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deniigi · 5 years

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The level of planning that went into under fire is crazy dude, major props, especially considering all of the characters and ESPECIALLY considering that many of them had the same name! do you have any tips for writing something that features a lot of characters?

Hi! Hello, anon!

Thank you! You hit the nail on the head there about the whole thing being insane. I didn’t realize what the fuck I got myself into until I was well into it. And by then I had, hoo, like. I dunno, do some fucking math with me

3 Peters (Tats, Peter, and Peter B.) 2 Mileses (Bitsy and Miles) 3 Matts (Big Red, Little Red, and Murderdock) 3 copycats (Angel, Louis, and Dave), 3 MJs (Michelle, B.’s MJ, and Peter’s MJ), Gwen, Wade, and Doc Ock

so….like 17 characters?? If we wanna throw Noir in there for his stunning performance as deus ex machina, 18?? And FUCK, there’s Ganke. and then Miles’s parents. That gets us to??? 21???

Anyways I fucked up so bad this many characters was a fucking nightmare. I had so many regrets along the way.

So. Advice.

Here are my very extremely loose rules that I went by to deal with the behemoth. They might not work for you, and that is totally fine. Do whatever makes you happy and whatever works for the story you are trying to tell. But these worked for me.

Overall, your primary goal here is to divide and fucking conquer. there is literally no other way to do this.

1. Break everyone into groups absolutely no larger than 5 as often as possible. Like, even five is too many, I’d stick with 3 or 4 as much as you can. You can’t really draw people’s characters out when you’ve got too many of them. Not to mention that people tend to naturally break off into groups when you start getting groups bigger than 4 or 5.

For me, I tried to bring the whole group together only a handful of times and mostly around those moments which needed high tension (climax, etc.) because man, it’s all fun and games when you’ve got everyone on screen, but you also got to keep in mind that the next thing mammoth thing you’ve gotta do is get them all believably off screen.

2. No more than 3 or 4 people talking at once, it just doesn’t work. And even then, not everyone should be contributing to the conversation, fuck, someone’s just gotta be listening and standing awkwardly. That’s how big group convos are.

3. Just make some fucking cliques. Like, people have cliques. They have folks that they feel more comfortable sitting/standing/talking with than others in big groups and they tend to stick with those folks throughout most interactions. Set your cliques off. Ex. I had the ITSV crew, Team Red Copycats and the Matts (+Wade and Foggy to act as arbitrator in that shitshow)

4. Do not introduce everyone at once, dear god. No. Information overload. You’re not gonna be able to write about anyone’s personality or relationship that way, Christ. You want to take some time for your audience to get to know these guys before you launch into your Battle Royale. I had characters pop in to interact with specific characters one-on-one, and then leave. And after they left for a minute, they could then return at the behest of the character they interacted with.

5. When it comes to your narrative, lord fucking help you, I would say that you want to introduce and pair characters and events according to characters’ strengths and weaknesses.

So the big thing in under fire was light vs. darkness. This came up because I was working with a Spiderman + Daredevil combo most of the time and Matt operates just fine in darkness while everyone else is royally fucked. By doing this, I was able to flip the script, so to speak, and play with the Matts being guides for everyone else for once. This made them essential parts of the narrative without me having to like, really shoehorn their relevance in there.

This kind of pairing/intro process was also how I got to introduce Little Red (ITSV Matt) and show how his relationship with Miles and Peter was waaay different from the relationship Miles had with Peter B., the relationship between Gwen and Murderdock and Team Red’s relationship with Inimitable Matt. It also let me explore how Little Red and Big Red are very, very different characters, despite being from a similar base.

Basically, you want to orchestrate narrative points around character traits in some way so that you can really focus in on the interesting parts of a character or interaction before zooming out to the bigger picture again.

6. and OH SHIT yeah. It helps sometimes to remind audiences of the bigger picture while you have all these interactions because sometimes it gets lost. So having a character occasionally say smth along the lines of “alright, so what’s the goal here?” so that both you and the reader know where things should go (I say ‘should’ here because there is nothing more delightful than promising smth and failing to deliver it with a plot twist)

7. You need to really define who your protagonist is. Who’s POV are you speaking through? What will they pick up on and what will they miss within this huge fucking mass of characters? What is important to them?

Are you going to switch POVs? If you’re switching, why are you switching? There needs to be an explicit reason for the switch, otherwise you’re going to complicate/confuse your narrative for your audience.

For example, in under fire I got to a point where I had to decide how to end the 2nd confrontation with Doc Ock. I knew I wanted Gwen to do it because I didn’t want an all-male narrative, but I didn’t know how to do that without making Miles feel redundant. So the kindest way to remove Miles from the situation without making him just stand on the sidelines and watch was to make him a victim; he goes unconscious. This throws the entire plot into mayhem because fuck the main protagonist is down. Someone needs to step in. That is an excellent point for a POV shift.

So while I totally get that it’s fun and often hilarious to just write things from another character’s point of view, but in terms of shoving your plot forward, I would very strongly recommend not repeating events and making sure that there is an explicit purpose behind voice changes.

8. Oh. Very last thing: for the love of god, if you’re writing ITSV or smth like that with multiples of the same characters–just give them fucking different names. I cannot with this whole Peter B. vs. Peter thing anymore. THERE’S TOO MANY PETERS.

Fucking nicknames. They all get nicknames. At least for me: everyone gets a damn nicknames but the protag.

Anyways my dear, please take this wealth of nonsense and do with it what you will. I can pretty safely say that never shall I ever write another fic with 20+ characters. I have found my line in the sand.

#fic #inimitable verse #writing advice #fanfiction #just thinking about this all makes me tired #like fuck #I went and really did that didn't I?#Do I fucking hate myself or smth???

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meggannn · 5 years

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into the spiderverse: timeline

when i went to see spiderverse again yesterday one of my goals was to come up with a timeline of the story, so here’s what i found with some of my notes. the main chunk of the story takes place over the course of a week in mid-december, beginning on a monday morning and ending friday night.

SUNDAY

NIGHT: Specified only in the background, but a collider test took place under Fisk tower Sunday evening with three pieces of evidence: 1) As Miles walks to school Monday morning, a friend from Brooklyn Middle asks him if he felt the “earthquake” (collider test) last night. Of course, Miles replies “What are you talking about? I slept like a baby last night.” It could very well be all talk, since this is Miles’s “cool” persona that comes out around his friends. I believe the collider test did occur and was centralized/affected only certain neighborhoods, for reason #3 below. 2) The spider that bites Miles on Monday night glitches as it crawls down from the ceiling, implying that it came from another universe. 3) The confirmation: the news broadcast that Jefferson and Miles pass by in the car on the way to Visions announces that “There are multiple reports of another mysterious seismic event last night.” (Side note: when Gwen is blasted into “last week” New York, an announcer mentions, “...this is the second earthquake in the Tri-State area this month.” So this pre-canon collider test on Sunday wasn’t even the first one.)

MONDAY

DAY: Miles gets a ride to school from his dad, meets Gwen in physics, receives a test back, and is assigned the essay. Miles’s date at the top of his test reads Decembruary 9. I’ve seen a theory that this is what the month is called in Miles’s universe, but later, a poster in Miles’s room advertises the date “DECEMBER 15,” so we can assume “Decembruary” was just part of his efforts to flunk the class. If we assume the date number is correct, this film probably takes place in mid-December. (December 9, 2018 was actually a Saturday, so either the filmmakers didn't check, or Miles was really committed to playing dumb.)

NIGHT: Miles sneaks out to spray-paint with Aaron and is bitten by the spider from another dimension.

TUESDAY

DAY: Miles notices changes. He sticks to everything, tears Gwen’s hair, and realizes he might have Spiderman’s powers.

NIGHT: Miles searches for answers in Brooklyn and returns to the tunnel to check the spider, where he is caught in a battle between PP Spiderman and Green Goblin. PP Spiderman is thrust into the collider beam. PP Spiderman gives him the task of destroying the collider. PP Spiderman is killed by Kingpin, Miles returns to his parents’ place, and stays the night there. The news of PP Spiderman’s death is broadcast across the city. Meanwhile, Peter B and the others are thrust into Miles’s reality this same evening (Gwen goes back in time). Peter B sees PP’s death in Times Square. This evening is the first time Miles experiences Spideysense. In the lead up, his senses feel strange, distorted, and claustrophobic; the visuals look weird on the screen until it suddenly condenses into the wiggly lines and LOOK OUT flashes behind him (when Green Goblin bursts through the wall). After that, his Spideysense triggers normally like the others’.

WEDNESDAY

This is the day I’m most confused about. Common sense says these events couldn’t/shouldn’t all happen in the same day, but other parts of the film indicate that not much/no time has passed, so they have to happen either on Weds, or across a day or two, perhaps Weds-Thurs. For expediency’s sake I’m assuming the filmmakers probably intended it to be Weds due to how urgent they stress the collider situation is.

DAY: The city is in mourning. Miles goes to a costume shop and buys a Spiderman outfit, where he meets Stan Lee. He attends a public speech by Mary Jane Watson, attempts to swing off a few buildings, and accidentally breaks the USB. Peter B also attended MJ’s speech on Wednesday from afar, where he is already seen wearing a trenchcoat he must have scrounged from somewhere. He must have also acquired a pair of sweatpants and mismatching shoes on Weds to cover up/keep warm where the bottom of his suit burned up in collider travel. Wednesday is the first day Miles skips school and drops out of contact with his family.

NIGHT: Miles goes to PP’s grave and apologizes for failing him. We meet Peter B, who Miles accidentally electrocutes, and they go on a train ride together. After Peter is knocked out, Miles takes him to Aaron’s, where he ties him up and questions him. They recognize the Spideysense in each other, and Peter B reluctantly agrees to mentor him. The likelihood of all these events happening in one day is pretty infeasible (MJ’s speech and Peter’s gravestone especially). Families would be given a few days of privacy to mourn, and besides which, MJ would need time to write the speech. Most importantly, people aren’t buried within a day. Also, with PP’s death so fresh, there would definitely be mourners at his gravesite in the evening, unless perhaps Miles waited until they all left and it’s VERY late at night/early morning when he meets Peter B. Peter B’s face is still beat up/swollen in the beginning of the scene when he’s tied to the punching bag, but by the time he’s decided to leave for the collider in the alley, he has fully healed. I would call it a continuity error, but since Peter has healing abilities, I think it was a conscious choice that his injuries lasted this long, either from being knocked out/swung around the city, and/or Miles might have injured him by knocking his head around Aaron’s apartment while tying him up. There’s a time skip between the alley scene and the next morning. Peter walks up the wall next to someone awake in their apartment window, so we might think it’s a reasonable time of night OR early morning (9-10pm, 5-6am), but it’s also New York, so it could just as well be 2am when they’re having this talk. What did Peter B and Miles do before they go out to eat? Peter says “There’s not a moment to lose” and Miles starts to follow him but there’s not much they could do to get started on a new USB in the middle of the night, and in the middle of winter I doubt they just wandered around the city. Did they spend the night at Aaron’s?

THURSDAY

DAY: Peter and Miles eat breakfast at a burger place and travel to Alchemex to steal the data. They infiltrate the lab, meet Doc Ock, break out with the computer, and are introduced Gwen/Spiderwoman in the forest. We are treated to Kingpin’s backstory and his goals behind the collider. Peter tells Miles to look up where Alchemex is, and Miles’s phone says Alchemex “OPENS AT 9AM.” It’s light out when they eat, and NY sunrise in December is around 7am, so I assume this scene takes place around 7-8am. Miles wants to swing to the Hudson Valley, but Peter insists they take the bus, saying he won’t swing “after a hearty burger-breakfast.” It’s a 2-hour bus drive from NYC to the Valley, so they arrive after Alchemex opens. Accomodating for their travel time to Port Authority, they probably get there around 10-11am. Gwen is the third Spider-person Miles has met within a day and a half, after years of thinking there was only one. Only two days ago he was puzzling over the possibility of there being two Spidermen alone in his room, and in the forest he says, “How many more Spider-people are there?” which is honestly probably running through his head all day. Miles has now been skipping school for two days. His last contact with his family was Tuesday evening, and it’s also been two full days since they’ve heard from him. Brooklyn Visions has almost certainly contacted his parents, which likely prompts the call Jefferson makes to Aaron asking if he knows where Miles is. (Little does Jefferson know Miles almost calls him that same evening as he’s wandering Queens after leaving May’s.) We might assume that Visions thinks Miles is just skipping class, not that he’s missing, otherwise Jeff would probably feel more panicked.

NIGHT: The team goes to May’s house in Queens, and are introduced to the rest of the Spider-people that traveled from other dimensions. They haze Miles, prompting him to seek solace with Aaron. Instead he runs into the Prowler, and it’s revealed the Prowler is Aaron. Miles runs, and Aaron gives chase. There’s a time gap between the bus ride back from Alchemex. The bus ride takes 2 hours, which Peter/Miles/Gwen presumably make immediately after breaking out of Alchemex, putting them back in NYC around early/mid afternoon, maybe 1-2pm. They meet up with May around sunset, which is around 4:30 in December in New York. That’s a few missing hours in which they might have gone out to eat or something. Why did they wait a few hours to go to May’s? Theories: 1) They were busy eating/talking/getting to know each other. 2) They waited until they were sure she was home. Is May retired? 3) They waited until the crowds of mourners/fans would be gone. May is presumably housing the Spidergang in her place, including dinner Thursday night and breakfast Friday. Or maybe they ordered takeout.

FRIDAY

Friday has the second-weirdest time skips behind Wednesday. There’s an implication that all of these events happen very quickly following each other, but unless Miles was running around literally all day trying to escape the Prowler, these events have to have some gaps.

DAY: Peni creates a new USB. Miles rushes to May’s house for safety after leading the Prowler on a chase across Brooklyn-Queens. Aaron has called for backup and arrives at May’s home with the Scorpion/Doc Ock/Tombstone. They fight the Spider-gang, Miles escapes with the USB and is cornered by Aaron. Aaron refuses to kill his nephew and is killed for it. Around sunset, Miles runs back to his dorm, where he is confronted by the Spider-gang and Peter tells him they won’t let him destroy the collider. Peter ties him up in his room, and Jefferson visits Miles in his dorm. Peter is wearing sweatpants and shoes over his burnt suit on Thursday and has a fully functional suit (with the onesie covering his feet) when Miles returns to the house. We can assume May either gave him one of dead Peter’s suits, or helped him repair his own. We don’t know when Miles rejoins the gang at May’s house, so you could headcanon it’s in the morning or afternoon. The fight with the Sinister Six probably lasts about an hour. We might assume Miles goes missing again after Aaron dies, and he could’ve spent some time wandering the city in grief again. Again, sunset in NY in December is 4:30, so that’s when the spider-gang confront him in his room. Given everything, my suspicion is that they were waiting at Miles’s dorm room (which Gwen would’ve known) for him to return, so when he throws his book out the window, that’s why someone was able to immediately throw it back.

NIGHT: Miles discovers his powers, escapes Peter’s webbing, travels back to Queens where May helps him with his suit and web shooters. Miles takes the subway to Manhattan to take his leap of faith, and then swings back to Brooklyn to join the gang. Meanwhile, the Spider-gang infiltrate Kingpin’s gala and break into the collider. Miles joins them and they successfully defeat the sinister six, and send everyone home. Miles faces off against Kingpin and destroys the collider. Later, Miles calls Jefferson (first contact in 3 days, since Tuesday), delivers Kingpin to the PDNY, and introduces himself to the city as the new Spiderman.

and that’s all i’ve got for now. curious to hear if anyone has thoughts/if i missed or misinterpreted anything.

#into the spiderverse #peter b parker #miles morales #gwen stacy #spiderverse stuff

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mrsspidermanmaryjanewatsonparker · 6 years

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I cannot figure out how to sign up or log in to gizmodo to explain directly to the author how wrong and broken they are so this will have to do. If anyone is able to post on this site I’d love them to link to this.

“Although Peter Parker had several love interests in his early comic book history—most notably, of course, Gwen Stacy—when Mary Jane Watson was introduced, she was clearly the be-all and end-all of Spidey relationships. ”

This is wrong on two counts.

If we define MJ’s introduction as ASm #25 where we first see and hear her then she was absolutely not the be all and end all of Spidey’s relationships. They weren’t in a relationship and she existed as a gag nothing more.

Fair enough though, few people count that preferring her furst full debut in ASM #42. Even then that statement is wrong.

MJ was introduced as a rival and foil to Gwen Stacy who was the actually intended endgame be all end all love interest.

“Before that, early issues of Amazing Spider-Man spent almost a year teasing her as a potential romantic partner for Peter, with Aunt May constantly trying to set up a date between Peter and the mysterious, unseen Ms. Watson. Peter wouldn’t first meet MJ until the final moments of Amazing Spider-Man #42—with the cry of her famous line, “Face it, tiger... you just hit the jackpot!”—and it was love at first sight.”

Oh okay so they do know about her pre- ASM #42 appearences they are just wilfully ignoring it.

More importantly it was never love at first sight. Peter was attracted to her but he wasn’t in love with her at all and like 2 issues later was thinking how he actually didn’t like her.

“Peter immediately began dating her, but it didn’t last that long, and the couple eventually broke up for the first of many times. ”

Again wrong.

Peter and MJ at best casually dated. They were not exclusive and not going steady therefore no break up ever occurred.

“This led to Peter dating Gwen again while MJ, still a good friend to the duo, hooked up with Harry Osborn.”

Again wrong. MJ and Gwen being friends is contentious. They were in the same friendship group but were not particularly close. Moreover Peter and MJ as I said never broke up. Peter began courting Gwen and said nothing to MJ who had herself been casually dating Harry too.

This was the 1960s and college kids there was a lot of freely traded flirting and dating at the time. In truth Gwen and Harry were dating slightly more seriously but they didn’t even break up and when Gwen and Peter began courting that pissed Harry off.

MJ didn’t even immediately begin dating Harry after Peter and Gwen got serious and when she did they were again not exclusive though Harry believed they were. Hence the famous panel in ASM #97 wherein Harry tells MJ she’s his girl and she dumps his ass telling him she’s no one’s girl but her own.

“Gwen’s now-iconic death at the hands of the Green Goblin in Amazing Spider-Man #121 drove Peter and Mary Jane together again as they both tried to come to terms with the loss of Gwen.”

This is also not strictly speaking true. Yes Gwen’s death was the catalyst but they were not bonding over a mutual loss of Gwen. MJ supported Peter in his time of need which led to their friendship deepening and spending more time together and from these interactions they fell in love.

Had other circumstances served to allow a (single) Peter and MJ spent more time together, gotten to know each other better, showcased a lot of care and loyalty to one another the same scenario would’ve occurred. But Gwen’s death was such a big deal it threw them together is all.

“But once more, it didn’t last that long—Peter’s dual life as Spidey began to tear them apart, and when Peter offered a hasty marriage proposal, Mary Jane turned him down, and decided to escape her stressful life with a move away from New York, leaving Peter on his own again.”

Again this is incredibly incorrect.

The first time Peter and MJ were explicitly dating on the page was ASM #136 (the debut of Harry as the new Green Goblin btw) in 1974. Their relationship BEGAN to fall apart after Peter’s proposal in ASM #182 and her rejection of it in ASM #183 in 1978. They were still together though but there was an understanding they were no longer exclusive or going steady so they saw other people whilst still seeing one another and steadily drifting apart in spite of efforts to try and repair their relationship. The final end came though in ASM #1992-193 in 1979. Peter made one last effort to fix things with MJ and convinced her to go on a date with him but Spider-Business made him miss it and so MJ decided she was done with him, telling him as much in the next issue.

This means Peter and MJ had some form of relationship, USUALLY a serious and exclusive one (across THREE titles!) for four to five years! So ‘didn’t last long’ my ass.

Moreover MJ’s move out of New York wasn’t immediate. She appeared two more times, once in Spectacular Spider-Man #38 and then again in ASM #201 both in 1979.

Only after this did MJ move away and at the time it wasn’t even talked about IIRC. She was just phased out of the series without mention and only later did we learn her absence was due to her having moved away. It was even later that we found out her move away was partially prompted by Peter’s proposal and more significantly her learning he was Spider-Man.

“Upon her return (and the reveal that she had figured out that Peter is Spider-Man), the two remained friends.”

Again this is grossly over simplifying things.

MJ returned in ASM #241-242 in 1983 and revealed she knew Peter’s identity in ASM #257 in 1984. During the interim Peter and MJ were still friendly with one another.

It was the reveal of her knowledge of his dual life along with her own painful past that made them CLOSER friends and confidants.

“But dual traumas—Peter losing his close friend Ned Leeds, and Mary Jane confronting her crooked father—led to the two getting closer again, and this time Peter’s second marriage proposal stuck. Well, actually, MJ turned him down again but eventually reconsidered.”

Again no.

Peter and MJ grew closer following MJ revealing her secret history in ASM #259 and then they CONTINUED to grow ever closer thereafter.

Ned Leeds death and MJ confronting her father were part of that sure, but they weren’t the root cause.

Ned’s death was likely the motivation Peer needed to propose a second time and dealing with her Dad is THE thing that led MJ to accept the proposal, but they were already in love, already effectively dating and already very close.

“Peter and MJ’s married life was defined by a frankly absurd amount of drama. ”

God. An absurd amount of drama in a SUPERHERO story. Who’s ever heard of such a thing.

Thank God there wasn’t as much drama in Superman and Lois Lane’s relationship across 70 years or Reed and Sue’s marriage across 45 years.

It’s not like at one point they split up because Reed put their son into a coma or Sue miscarried their child only to become reimpregnated with her years later.

“Mary Jane’s modelling career hit new highs after her marriage, only for her to be stalked by her former landlord, who not only ruined her career but then kidnapped her (the first of many, many kidnappings during her marriage). ”

Again kidnappings of a superhero’s loved ones! *clutches pearls*

Also MJ’s career was ruined by Jonathan Caesar AFTER he stalked and kidnapped her. FFS at least get the sequence of events right Wikipedia explains this better!

“Meanwhile, Peter was distraught by the arrival of a couple claiming to be his long-thought-dead parents. Once they were revealed to be Life Model Decoy robots sent by the Chameleon (hired by Harry Osborn in an attempt to get revenge for the death of his father Norman, a.k.a. the Green Goblin) to kill him, Peter had a total mental breakdown, abandoning Mary Jane for a while before they eventually reunited.”

The article pretends like the above event quickly followed the former when it didn’t.

Moreover it claims Peter’s mental breakdown was specifically due to his parents being imposters but it wasn’t. It was actually multiple incidents gradually putting him under immense strength and the straw that broke him was actually Aunt May’s coma.

Like...maybe fucking READ the comic where he breaks down maybe?

It’s also debatable to say he ever actually abandoned MJ. He went off the rails briefly in that story but it was actually MJ who temporarily abandoned him though she made it clear she would be coming back.

Then after a lot of other stuff they reunited.

“And then, oh and then, there’s the Clone Saga, one of the most infamous Spider-Man stories ever told. ”

FALSE! Peter and MJ’s reconciliation happened DURING the Clone Saga not before.

“In between all the wild nonsense about Peter clones, Ben Reilly, and Peter being convinced that he’s a clone so he abandons being Spider-Man altogether, Mary Jane became pregnant, only to tragically give birth to a stillborn child after she was poisoned by an agent of the Green Goblin. ”

Again not true.

Peter didn’t abandon being Spider-Man because he was a clone. The story arcs ‘Exiled’ and the ‘The Greatest Responsibility’ make it explicit that just because Peter is the clone doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be Spider-Man. It was decided peter SHOULD remain Spider-Man but it was actually his impending fatherhood that led Peter to retire and hand the mantle to Ben.

Also MJ giving birth to a stillborn child is at best debatable.

It’s HEAVILY implied Norman merely faked the baby’s death. This makes more sense for his character too.

“The horror and stress of the whole event—which culminated in the return of Norman Osborn, the apparent death of Ben Reilly (don’t worry, he got better too, eventually, sort of), and Peter’s return to the Spider-Mantle—understandably put the couple’s relationship on the rocks.”

No it didn’t.

The story arc in which Norman returned, Ben died and the couple believed their child to have died actually ends with the reaffirmation of their relationship and shows them growing closer and stronger from it.

This is then corroborated in the very next issue, Spec #241 which again reaffirms they’re relationship is strong.

“Then MJ got kidnapped (again) by a telepathic mutant who wanted to steal Peter’s life (and his wife) and staged a plane explosion in Amazing Spider-Man#13, which led to Peter believing MJ was dead for over a year. ”

FALSE!

Not only did he skip over more than TWO YEARS worth of stories by jumping immediately from the end of the Clone Saga in 1996 to the Mackie/Byrne era (which began in 1998 with the plane crash in 2000) but he also falsely claims Peter believed MJ was dead for over a year.

He didn’t.

MJ was presumed dead by the public for just 6 months and for the MAJORITY of that time Peter was in denial over her death. When he found her alive he even admitted he never truly believed she was dead. Meaning Peter NEVER thought she was dead and felt that way for 6 months not 12.

“As if all this wasn’t more than enough kicks while Peter and MJ were down, Civil War broke out in the Marvel universe in 2006, which saw Peter’s identity made public, the superhero community tearing itself apart over something that is in equal parts tragic and dumb, and Aunt May and MJ having to go on the run after Spider-Man’s ginormous roster of foes started chasing them in the wake of Peter’s big, foolish reveal.”

Wow there is so much misinformation to unpack here.

Okay, so first of all Peter and MJ WEREN’T separated or dealing with the fallout of MJ’s trauma when Civil War occurred.

They parted ways in 2001, got back together in 2003 and Civil War was 2006!

Furthermore the Parkers didn’t go on the run because of Peter revealing his identity, it was because he no longer trusted Tony Stark and thus decided to go on the run...I said the author was wrong I never said the story was logical.

“That still left the problem of Peter’s identity being made public during Civil War, however. Peter asked Doctor Strange to cast a spell that would wipe his identity from the mind of everyone in the world, including Mary Jane, in Amazing Spider-Man #641—only for Peter to protect Mary Jane from the spell’s effects at the last minute. Despite being kept in on his greatest secret, Mary Jane ultimately decided she couldn’t keep risking the danger of being someone special to Spider-Man, and told Peter to move on and find someone else to share his life with.”

Again this misrepresents the sequence of events. The author pretends that these events occurred after Peter and Mj broke up in the new revised timeline when in truth the mindwipe was the thing that led to them breaking up (stupidly).

Moreover the break up was spawned by MJ (stupidly) not wishing to risk her family not herself.

“The two remained friends and confidants over the next few years, until another wild Spider-Man event—The Superior Spider-Man, in which a dying Doctor Octopus took over Peter’s body and seemingly sent Peter’s consciousness into the villain’s previously dying body, effectively killing Peter”

FALSE!

In Superior Spider-Man Doc Ock created back ups of his own and Peter’s minds and uploaded said copies into one another’s bodies.

The Peter who died in Otto’s dying body was never the original, the original was simply a passive observer within his own body.

“When Mary Jane noticed that something was up with Peter, the two quickly broke up again”

SUPER FALSE!

MJ DIDN’T NOTICE anything wrong! THAT was why the story sucked shit.

Otto himself ended things because he believed that they shouldn’t be together because he’d always endanger her.

“And when Peter was eventually restored to his body and Otto’s deception was revealed to her, Mary Jane decided once and for all that Peter’s absurd life as a hero shouldn’t define her life as well, choosing to remain friends with him but remaining mostly separated from his life. (Valid.)”

No. INVALID.

MJ victim blamed Peter and wasn’t saying his crazy life defined her. She was saying some nonsense about wanting a normal life but still wanted that in the city where Skrulls invade ever summer.

It was toxically out of character.

It also wasn’t ‘once and for all’ since oh I dunno she still stuck around in his fucking life.

“The revitalization of Marvel’s continuity in the wake of 2015's Secret Wars kept this status quo for MJ and Peter—although fans jonesing for the couple’s time together were thrown a bone by Marvel in the form of Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows, an ongoing series that began in 2016 about an alternate-reality version of Peter and MJ that remained married, had a daughter together, and currently fight crime as an entire Spider-family.”

Okay true but how is that relevant to the point of the article?

#mjwatson #mary jane watson #mary jane watson parker #Spider-Man #MJ Watson #Peter Parker #Clone Saga #Norman Osborn

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canstopabus · 5 years

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Top 5 spiderman moments (comics and films)

Lets see, you are going to have to forgive me because I don’t remember comic numbers just the specific things.

Now in the Deadpool/Spider-Man comics when Peter Parker is dead, there is a moment where he is being confronted with his major guilt moments. IE Gwen Stacy’s death, Uncle Ben’s death etc and he says no these things are not my fault. I also like the moment when what protects him as he fights for his life, his patronus is Spider-Man. (I am not a fan of this arc but there are moments I love from it.)

In TASM where one of his good deeds ends up getting him the help he needs. He choose to stop pursuing the Lizard on the bridge who was disengaging and running away in order to save a boy that was stuck in one of the vehicles hanging off the bridge. Saves him in the nick of time and his dad happens to be in charge of construction equipment. So that in his hour of need when Spidey is struggling the guy makes the call to have the cranes line up to provide him the trail he needs.

When Johnny is believed to be dead Spidey goes to comfort Franklin. He talks about the uncle he lost and his feelings. Its just a beautiful moment that shows a factor of Spidey’s personality to stop, listen, and help those he cares about.

Also in TASM2 where Spidey stops and saves a boy that is being pursued by bullies and admires his science project. He helps fix it for the little boy. Later on that little boy tries to stand in for Spidey, believing in him.

I don’t know if I can call it a favorite moment or just one that really strikes me. When in the comics Mephisto makes the deal with Spidey to give him back his secret Identity Peter has to sacrifice a potential life. He sacrificed his marriage to Mary Jane and their future daughter to keep his secrets. Peter’s life became more difficult, and people around him more at risk by openly being Spidey. It was something he wanted to take back. The thing is I don’t like the deal because it affected MJ without her making that choice as well. It’s just a moment that strikes me, its in part both selfish and selfless. Peter giving up what could have been a happy future, to protect people by becoming a secret identity. Making himself a more effective vigilante in a way. I could keep rambling about this one for ages.

#im-just-a-glitch

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theinsanecrayonbox · 5 years

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Dudes Spiderverse was way good. Sometimes the style failed though. Where parts of the shot looked out of focus/were meant to be 3D but you weren't wearing glasses to see it, while the rest was in focus fine, but aside from that. A couple points that really got me though; 1: probably unpopular opinion, but I felt like you didn't need Noir, Penni, and Ham. They didn't feel like they added much to me. Idk, maybe it's just cause I'm not that invested in them? 2: I think Gwen got the shutdown codes for Peter to begin with. Look at it; she said she was in this reality for a week, she was an intern at Ock's lab, and when Peter B went to talk to MJ she made a point to say "it's not your MJ, don't go down this road, trust me" implying she'd confronted an alternate Peter. But if there's no reality shifting before this, that means she must've been in contact with this reality's Peter. Also, it seemed to imply that it was her idea to go to Aunt May's house; if she had been in contact with Peter, that'd make sense. 3: Lady Ock is cool, however...the "My friends call me Liv" line, coupled with May's "Oh look...its Liv...-.-" line has me wondering...because if you'll recall (I'm pretty sure) in the Ultimate Universe, which is Miles' original setting, Doc Ock and Aunt May dated somewhat. So...did that happen in this universe too? 4: so setting up the Web of Life stuff and the Inheritors, with 2099 being Spider UK I bet 5: why was Peter Batman?? And yes I'll babble tomorrow about how I can ScarletVenom this because I'm lame like that lol

#spiderman into the spiderverse #spoilers #kp watches stuff

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proofthatihaveaheart · 4 years

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end of year 2019 recs

this was meant to be posted two months ago and then it got buried in my drafts and i forgot that it existed while i started a new fic rec list for the first quarter of this year oops

[1 Borderlands, 1 Good Omens, 1 Life is Strange, 1 Marvel, 1 She-Ra, 9 Steven Universe, 1 Tangled, 1 The Adventure Zone, 1 The Last of Us, 2 The Umbrella Academy]

Borderlands

Burn Out by snufflyphoenix (VH1 gang, 5k): As Mordecai and Brick prepare to ship out to Athenas as the Crimson Raiders' B Team with Not So Tiny Tina, Lilith worries about their safety and starts to wonder how she's going to manage without them now she's gotten so used to them always being with her again. She contemplates their relationship; how it's changed since when they first met and how they're going to manage going forwards with the world turned upside down again. [This fic balances tenderness and comfort and grief so well while capturing the dynamics between these characters and I just really love it.]

Good Omens

Choose Your Faces Wisely by Poetry (Aziraphale/Crowley, 5k): In a world where humans wear their souls on the outside, Crowley and Aziraphale learn to make their own. [Daemon AU! It’s well-written with lots of references, cool concepts about the daemons of supernatural beings, and strong character moments.]

Life is Strange

migratory animals by swapcats (Chloe/Max, 11k): “Here,” you say, tossing the photo her way. “Check it out. Blackwell was insane for kicking me out, right?”You give her your best grin. It’s not very good, but she’s not looking, anyway. She twists the photo in her hands, turns it upright, and does nothing but blink at it.For a moment, you’re scared she’s going to fall in. Not because it’s a photo -- it isn’t even of her, isn’t more than a few hours in the past -- but because you’re more convinced than terrified that she’s just going to up and vanish. If it’s not time-bullshit, then it’ll be her having enough of putting up with your bullshit; she’s got her family out there, over in Seattle, and you’ve got a beat up truck and a few thousand dollars to your name. [Road trip fic! Full of pining and a careful exploration of their traumas and healing, it serves as a perfect epilogue to their adventure]

Marvel

dance, dance (we’re falling apart to half-time) by gleesquid (Gwen/MJ, 4k): “We were going to go dancing. Peter and I, I mean. We could still go. You and me, that is, it’s not like we need Peter to dance, or any boys at all, and he’s not very good anyways –,”“Gwen Stacy,” Mary Jane said and Gwen faltered at the sound of her own name on foreign lips. “It’s like you read my mind.”Or: Gwen and MJ will always be each other's favorite dance partner. [A perfect fic about Gwen and MJ’s growing friendship and feelings, with lots of dancing thrown in. The build-up is fantastic and it’s romantic and it’s very much them.]

She-ra

I Can Make You Stronger by inkubusmb (Glimmer, 7k): "You can really make me that powerful?""You think of yourself only as a princess, but you're the child of a great sorcerer. You have a more powerful connection to magic then you've ever realized. Let me show you."Shadow Weaver couldn't be trusted. Glimmer knew that.But after losing her mother, she knew she had to get stronger. Strong enough to protect her friends from the same fate. Strong enough to destroy the Horde.And Shadow Weaver was the only one who could give her that power. [A neat character study of something that very well might happen in s4 - Glimmer learning magic from Shadow Weaver.]

Steven Universe

Before We Turn to Dust by Mintly (Ruby/Sapphire, 6k): Their days were dirt roads and endless blue sky. It would be freedom, except it wasn't. Sapphire is a quiet country storefront and Ruby dreams. [Human!AU set in a small rural town. The writing is beautiful, the relationship and yearning between Sapphire and Ruby comes through clearly, and the atmosphere shines. It’s really good and even if you’re not a human AU fan, you should check it out.]

Cleave by susan_voight, thingswithwings (Ruby/Sapphire, 8k): “Tell me a story,” Steven asks, as he shuts his eyes. Garnet, as far as she has the capacity for it, is surprised; Steven is seventeen, and while he still has a tendency towards whimsy, he hasn’t asked for this particular indulgence for years. Not since he was a lot smaller. Garnet feels a little angry at herself for not having noticed that earlier; she feels regretful, too, that she can never seem to see any part of Steven’s adulthood coming in advance. [Garnet tells Steven a story about Ruby and Sapphire and the time they had to separate for a mission. It’s absolutely lovely, a great study of their relationship and how they grow to be even stronger.]

Little Rebellions by CompletelyDifferent (gen, 58k): Not all Pearls have the chance to run off to another planet and take up arms. Not all fights are grand and romantic. These are the little rebellions- little, but just as defiant. [A wonderful set of interconnected one-shots centered around themes of rebellion and freedom. And all the good world-building! I loved them all.]

Only Human by mllelaurel (gen, 23k): When a malfunctioning artifact temporarily (they hope!) turns them all human, the Gems must face down a monster infestation, while dealing with the loss of their normal powers and their own sudden fragility. [This very much reads like a multi-episode arc and it’s absolutely delightful. The insecurities and vulnerabilities the Gems struggle with are ones that are always there, but they’ve been magnified and brought to the surface with their human state and it’s just really well-done.]

Pushing By Like Hearts by mautadite (Lapis/Peridot, 13k): “Sounds like you’re really counting on that road trip magic.”(Peridot and Lapis do Midway City, and Empire City, and Plateau Ville, and all the places in between.) [Peridot and Lapis go on a road trip and it’s wonderful. Love the imagery, the development of their relationship, and the characterization.]

starwalker’s birthday by the_sockpuppet (Pearl/Garnet, 11k): Garnet wonders if she is Rose’s replacement. Pearl wonders how Garnet could love her. [I love this fic and the way it navigates their relationship and all the insecurities they bring along to it. The focus is very much on communication and being open and working through things, and it’s very good.]

the meek shall inherit the earth by Ushio (Pearl gen, 958): "Where was her Pearl?" asks Blue Zircon. Well. She was holding the sword. [Even though this was supremely jossed, it makes for a good, poetic read.]

Waltz of the Nian by QuickYoke (Lapis/Peridot, 6k): Lapis doesn't understand fusion at heart, but she does know she's an unideal partner for it. Set after the season 3 finale. [A character study of Lapis and her relationship to fusion, and the moments when Lapis almost fuses with Peridot. It’s well-written and it handles the subject of trauma + navigating boundaries and intimacy beautifully.]

where we love is home by possibilityleft (Pearl/Garnet, 532): "You're looking at me differently now," Garnet says.Slight Pearl/Garnet. Post-regeneration for them both, Garnet and Pearl have a discussion. [Early rebellion days, a short conversation that holds a lot inside it.]

Tangled the Series

strings by pathygen (Cassandra-centric, 19k): The weight of the stone should be concerning, but it’s not. She’s never been unfamiliar with weight. [This fic is a fascinating exploration of what could happen with the Moonstone and the ghost. It’s also a fascinating story of becoming lost in your own anger and insecurity, how that can twist you and make you someone you’re not. It’s dark and painful and I read it in one sitting because I couldn’t tear myself away from what was going on. It’s also a slow build to the final confrontation, which is stunning and one of my favorite moments in any fics I’ve read this year.]

The Adventure Zone

tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow by fishycorvid (Taako-centric, 28k): The funeral of one of the birds should have more attendants than this, some part of Taako thinks. But Magnus hadn’t wanted that, of course; he’d told Taako as much decades ago, just a few years after the Day of Story and Song. Taako had laughed then, told him he’d regret it when there weren’t any adoring fans weeping and tossing flowers into his grave. Taako isn’t laughing now, here in this clearing with the body that used to be his friend. (What comes after the end.) [As you might expect from the summary and warning about character death,this fic is painful. You will cry and your heart will hurt. But it’s also very well-written and a beautiful exploration of grief and having to live on and how sometimes things don’t work. Sometimes you pretend you’re fine but you’re not, you’re on a self-destructive spiral. That said, it’s also juxtaposed with some really lovely moments between Taako and his family, his friends. Highly recommend!]

The Last of Us

landscape by januarys (gen, 854): It's the moments that define who they are, the spaces in between, and as the seasons fade into one. [A lovely stream of moments over the course of the game between Joel and Ellie.]

The Umbrella Academy

Keep Trying by pprfaith (Vanya & Klaus, 8k): At thirteen, a drunk Klaus goes wandering the mansion instead of locking himself into his room. Seventeen years down the line, he saves the world. In between, they're all just trying not to drown. (Klaus and Vanya against the world.) [This fic is lovely and healing and imagines a different world where things are still messed up because Reginald is the worst dad but there’s also support and comfort and learning how to trust.]

Try Again by pprfaith (gen, 57k): They have outlived their father. They've managed to fix themselves. A little. Sort of. So from here on out, things should be peachy, right? [The Hargreeves get the healing and recovery they deserve, lots of good sibling dynamics, confronting what Reginald did to them, I really love this fic.]

#monthly fic recs #fic recs

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