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thegayhimbo · 2 years

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Stranger Things Season 4 Volume 2 General Thoughts/Review (SPOILERS)

Just got done watching! Still reeling from the final 2 episodes! Had a lot of thoughts I wanted to share. This is just my opinion, so don’t take offense if you see something you disagree with. Chances are things might change when I get more time to think about the overall season!

WARNING: Major Spoilers from Episodes 8 and 9 of Stranger Things Season 4

1.) I don’t know if it’s too early to call, but these last two episodes will probably be in my Top 10 Favorite Stranger Things Episodes if I ever decide to make that list. It was an emotional rollercoster, and my stomach was in knots over what was going to happen to these characters. These will be episodes I rewatch in the future.

2.) Yay for Joyce/Hopper reconnecting. That was long overdue!

3.) I’m hoping we get a little more explanation about the Russian’s involvement with the Upside Down. I’m guessing they must have gotten the demogorgons and demodogs from when they opened the gate in Hawkins in season 3, but there’s a lot here that needs clarification. Specifically, I want to know how they managed to trap a piece of the Mind Flayer in that room. I also want to know more about the Russian’s experiments on the Upside Down monsters, and what plans they have for next season.

4.) I feel awful for Will. This show has stopped being subtle about Will’s feelings for Mike, and it’s depressing that he hasn’t been able to tell Mike how he truly feels about him. It’s nice that Jonathan seems to be aware of Will’s feelings and what Will’s going through, and that he was able to give his little brother some brief comfort.

5.) As a gay man, I’m not completely willing to dismiss the Duffer Brothers yet when it comes to queer representation. At the same time though, it’s frustrating that the show refuses to have the characters verbally acknowledge Will being gay despite dropping unsubtle hints this season about his feelings for Mike. It’s also frustrating that we had Vicky get introduced briefly as a love interest for Robin, and yet there barely was any focus on it. I’ve seen accusations from some fans about the show queerbaiting them, which.....................the jury is still out for me on that. There are things that could have been handled better when it comes to LGBT+ representation, but that doesn’t mean I’m ready to completely dismiss the show. There’s still one more season to turn this around.

6.) Argyle’s become a favorite character. Love how he was able to identify the tire tracks that led to where El and Dr. Brenner were, as well as getting El the salt tub she needed. He’s a lot more perceptive than he looks. Here’s hoping we see more of him in season 5!

7.) Speaking of Dr. Brenner..............CALLED IT! I knew he was going to betray Owens and El. I didn’t buy for one second that he actually reformed and saw the error of his ways. For all of his talk about how he did everything for El, the truth is it was ALWAYS about him and his need for control (as Vecna put it). This man is arguably responsible for almost every shitty thing that’s happened on this show, and I am glad El finally had enough of his crap.

8.) What exactly happened to Dr. Owens? Is he in Colonel Sullivan’s custody? Did Sullivan kill him? And where is Sullivan? I’m guessing he’s still hunting El, but I’d have to imagine he knows about the “earthquake” in Hawkins and the gate between Hawkins and the Upside Down. We’ll probably see him again next season, and I am not looking forward to it.

9.) Love the callback to Max’s Michael Meyers costume from season 2, and how Eddie used her mask to cover himself. Lol! 😂

10.) I was never a fan of Jason to begin with, but that scene with him and Nancy at the gun store is where any shred of sympathy I had left for him evaporated. The fact he was okay implying to Nancy that he was planning to hunt down Mike was vile. He looked like he was relishing that, which was disgusting. I’m glad Nancy stood her ground.

11.) I like the way Brenner’s death was handled. You can tell El was sad in spite of how awful of a person he was. At the same time, I was glad she refused to grant him any absolution or forgiveness before he died, even he was begging her to “understand.” She did not owe him that.

12.) The ending where they play “Separate Ways” by Journey as the group prepared to put their plan to kill Vecna into motion was a beautifully haunting moment.

13.) It was nice seeing Lucas and Erica bond as siblings where they weren’t just throwing snarky remarks at each other. Yay for Erica showing up for most of Lucas’s games because she wanted to support her brother! Here’s hoping we get more sibling moments like this in season 5!

14.) Loved seeing the bonding the group did prior to the battle: Dustin and Eddie fooling around, Robin and Steve talking with one another, Nancy and Max working together. Moments like these make me love this show!

15.) Eddie playing guitar in the Upside Down was as badass as the trailers made it out to be!

16.) Steve having 6 kids while traveling around the United States in a trailer is something I want to see happen now! :) Potential Spin-off!

17.) Speaking of Steve, Nancy, and Jonathan.......................Look: I’ve tried to be as open-minded about this as I can, but I am not enthusiastic about the Duffer Brothers creating another love triangle between these three. I didn’t like it in the first two seasons, and I’m not liking it any better here. I don’t have an issue with Steve finding true love if that’s the direction they’re going with his character, but I have zero interest in seeing Steve get back together with Nancy. I wish they would stop pushing this. I’m also not thrilled about the writers chipping away at the Jancy relationship. I was pretty ticked at Jonathan lying to Nancy about his acceptance letter, and the lack of resolution over where their relationship currently stands. I get they didn’t have enough time to focus on that given everything else going on, but still..............

18.) Max sorting through her trauma and her complicated feelings about Billy has been one of the best storylines this season. There was a hard truth in her admittance that she wished for Billy to die and felt guilty about it. And no, I don’t think she’s an awful person because of that. There are sadly many real-life examples of abuse victims who have also felt that way about their abusers, who probably felt relieved when their abuser were no longer a part of their life and then felt guilty for feeling that way. I am grateful this show didn’t shy away from that: They didn’t try to pretend Billy and Max’s relationship was ever okay, or that Billy secretly had a heart of gold when it came to Max. They were very clear that he was ABUSIVE to her, and that the way he treated Max messed her up in a huge way.

19.) This is probably going to be a controversial opinion, but I was satisfied with the ending they gave Jason’s character. I was glad they didn’t pull the last-minute “redemption” for him, nor made any attempt to whitewash his behavior. Regardless of his reasons for doing what he did, or whether or not he knew the full truth of what was going on, the fact is he put innocent people in danger because of his actions. He was prepared to kill Lucas, even when Lucas was trying to explain to him what was happening. He was someone who was coasting on his own self-righteousness and refused to consider the possibility he might be wrong in his assumptions. People can complain all they want about how Jason would have been a “Nice Guy” if things didn’t go the way they had, but the truth is the current circumstances brought out Jason’s uglier qualities and revealed the kind of person he was: Self-Absorbed, Vindictive, Prejudicial, Irrational, and Self Righteous. His establishing character moment was that speech at the prep rally in the season 4 premiere where he took all the deaths that happened at the hands of the Mind Flayer (an event Jason knew nothing of the context behind) and made it all about him and how they needed to win the basketball game. Doesn’t get any more self-absorbed than that. I see his character as a deconstruction of the “Vigilante Hero:” Someone who takes the law into their own hands because they’re convinced of the purity of their cause, and doesn’t give a damn about the collateral damage they leave behind. In a day and age where we have people who behave like this (and have gotten others killed through their stupidity and arrogance), it’s refreshing to see Stranger Things call this mentality out.

20.) Lucas beating the crap out of Jason will go down as one of my favorite moments in season 4. Same thing with Erica kicking Andy in the balls after he threatened to break her arm.

21.) What is it gonna take to finish Vecna off? Steve and Robin burn him alive while Nancy shoots him, and it still doesn’t kill him? They should have used the axe to chop his head off.

22.) Eddie’s death hit hard. I had a sick feeling he was gonna be slated for death, but what hurts the most is how he’s still being vilified by the town for murders he was innocent of. He went down fighting as a hero, and I’m hoping Dustin manages to get his name cleared at some point in season 5. He deserves that.

23.) I'm hoping we see Enzo again soon. I loved his friendship with Hopper. Don’t care that much for Yuri though.

24.) Hopper chopping off the head of a Demogorgon is also another favorite moment for me! :)

25.) Here’s to hoping that Vickie and Robin’s relationship gets more focus in season 5.

26.) I hope Max recovers soon! 😢

27.) The ending was haunting. I’m assuming Henry/One/Vecna is assembling his army off-screen and plans to invade in season 5. Now that the gate is wide-open, and the Upside Down is pouring into Hawkins, chances are the life expectancy in that town is about to plummet. I don’t blame most of the residents for packing their bags and leaving ASAP.

28.) I’m hoping we get more of an explanation about Vecna first got his powers. I still theorize that there was some kind of hidden gate between the Creel house and the Upside Down, and that some other malevolent force connected with Henry as a kid via the spiders or the grandfather clock and gave him the psychic powers he now has. Also, the show needs to explain more about the Upside Down. Time froze there the day Will disappeared, even though it’s speculated that the Upside Down has existed for over thousands of years. Here’s hoping season 5 provides the answers!

29.) I’m sorry Lucas, but if someone was in a coma, I would NOT be reading them a Stephen King book!

Overall, I enjoyed this season. It wasn’t perfect, but it was a fun ride, and it gave me a lot to chew on. I’ll be back for a rewatch, and will come back to edit this if I have anymore thoughts.

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justasmallbloginabigklainefandom · 1 year

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@sohereswhatyoumissedlastweek replied to your post “honestly i get jenna’s conflicted feelings about...”:

As a white person I always feel conflicted about that kind of humour because it is borderline racist but it's funny because it's absurd and also makes fun of Glee itself. And it's funny because it comes from Sue, who the viewer knows should not be followed as an example. I find "you're all minorities. You're in glee club" far more offensive because it comes from Schue. And because it just is offensive lol.

One thing that I really appreciate about And that’s what you really missed podcast (and what I also appreciated about the Showmance podcast) is that Jenna and Kevin seem to perfectly balance the good and the bad about glee. It’s what Ryan also said in the first episode: Kevin and Jenna are the perfect people for this kind of show, since their love for glee runs deep but they’re also not shying away from criticising it. I remember when Showmance aired and I saw a post of a Gleek who was disappointed because they found Showmance too negative, and I was like “... Kevin, a gay man, expresses how he dislikes casual homophobia in the writing and Jenna, a woman of colour, expresses how racial stereotyping was wack.”

ANYWAY all of this to say that I think they understand the clear difference between dark humour and things that are downright bad. Cause yes, things are downright bad. The “You’re all minorities” line was obliterated in the last podcast episode, same as the fact that JBI sexually blackmailing Rachel was played off for laughs etc. Whereas other things, like the majority of Sue’s dialogue, is shitty but can be seen as dark humour, since in the context of the show you’re supposed to go “wait? what?” and the humour lies in the unexpected outback steakhouse.

As an Asian person, I find “Asian” “Other Asian” so fucking funny, because you know it’s weird and kind of wrong and dark humour. Who is Asian? Who is Other Asian? But as Kevin also pointed out, as funny and still kind of harmless the “Asian” “Other Asian” joke is, it is the start of the bigger issue that is reducing Mike and Tina’s identity to Asian stereotypes and pairing them together solely because of their Asianness. I mean, they fell for each other at Asian Camp, for Asian’s sake! The panda hair jokes. The Asian forum. The Asian food. It got... weird and uncomfortable, especially since they have the same last name (no relation!) AND they are of two completely different etnicities, which as pointed out in Showmance podcast, and again here, is never acknowledged, which is kind of shitty as well since it’s honestly just racist to see the entire goddamn continent of Asia as a monolith.

Ine, you’re Belgian, I am Dutch. I think we can both attest that Dutch and Belgian people would rather die than be seen as the same.

And I think that is where the conflicted feeling comes from. I think that’s why Jenna said “Ask me again in 10 episodes”, because this is just the beginning and on its own it is, in my opinion, fucking hilarious, but that changes rapidly in season 2.

#ine #sohereswhatyoumissedlastweek #replies #just fyi i like tike as a couple cause i think jenna and harry had great chemistry #but i also wish their relationship was more than The Asians and Their Asian Jokes

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c0usingreg · 2 years

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Looking at kids and deciding their relationship to sex is weird

This is so funny to me lol bc I assume you are taking about the aro/ace headcannon post I made about Dustin?? But, you send this to me instead of the sea of gay/bi Mike truthers or people who hc El as lesbian and Max as bi or poly when it's the same concept? Because by your reasoning, we should not see the clues as to Will being gay bc "hes a kid and we shouldn't decide his relationship to sex". He was written that way, even if it's not explicitly said in the show, I didn't decide it.

The post I made about Dustin just points out the reasons WHY people see him in that way so as to counteract the thought that he's only considered to be that way because hes 'unattractive or disabled'. (Which would be seriously messed up!)

Like, people see a fictional character and find a piece of themselves in the way they are written and portrayed has nothing to do with what you said lol especially since sexuality is just a concept, an idea that manifests itself in the thoughts, actions, and needs of a character. You just sound incredibly aco/aro-phobic and should maybe check your biases on that? If hcing a character as aro/ace is 'weird' then so is hcing them as gay, bi, or lesbian. But, honestly, I think it's all pretty innocent unless you take it to a weird level (ie some hardcore Steddie shippers/Harringrove shippers)

No offense taken though, just hope you can sort out your own feelings on the matter and hopefully be a little less judgemental of people in the future 💖

Have a good day anon! 💖💖💖

#aro/ace #stranger things #dustin henderson #byler #lgbtq #honestly not offended by this anon and i encourage people to come to my askbox with their thoughts!#just dont be a jerk when you do so pls! 🥰

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theromanceofaffliction · 2 years

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i just rewatched the stranger things finale w my mom and it got me thinking. will doesnt have to be gay. but it will be narratively dishonest and offensive towards the audience’s intelligence if he and mike don’t at least have a conversation. like after all the looks and cryptic speech all that needs to happen is for mike to be like “will r u like…into me?”. and will’s answer doesn’t even have to be yes (tbh i think “i don’t know” would be a more in-character answer) but like. the idea of them not addressing it all is stressing me out lol. bc i will feel baited if that happens

#st4posting

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anastacialy · 2 years

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stranger things spoilers under the cut, just typing up my live reaction notes for my friend since they're illegible but if you wanna read it too, go wild.

numbered based on the page i used writing it. the first three are so short bc they were on post-its

001

"what have you done?" first of all, you're welcome, "papa," i killed that guy for you!

"we need music!" "this is music!" lol

letting nancy go just to torment the child who you lost a fight to, vecna? lol. lmao. but also thanks bc no one could find any songs she likes

"i did lose you. we had a funeral." "anybody show?" OUCHIE!! dont make me cry this early in the episode!!

BRUH? THE DEMOGORGON ON THE OPERATING / DISSECTION TABLE??

how did one bullet mercy kill it?

002

BRUH × 2 ??

was that the fucking?? mind flayer??

everyone wanted byler but they said naur <3 mileven <3 (i thought this might be the explanation for mike's weirdness ... but ... i had to hope ...)

what on EARTH is this painting if he's showing it now [keysmash here]

SORRY I LAUgHED,, ITS a good painting but not at all the style / skill i expected,,, aaaaaa

MIKE HYPING IT UP RIGHT AFTER I WROTE THAT — gay behavior still

ok ... the way mike is looking at will is STILL FRUITY ... bi mike canon

003

"when you're different" will comes out bingo square? also mike still looking at him with the most ♥ eyes

"sometimes you feel like a mistake" OUCHIE? will my gay baby

ah the classic "i was actually talking about me when i said ur gf needs you"

johnathan doesnt need to be sober to see what happening there. my guy knows. ally ♥

"you eased her into it nice and gentle just like we talked about, not ominous at all! /s" LMFAO BRUH. get em

"vecna-slash-henry-slash-one" robin referring to him the same way we do lol

004

also lets see if the "eddie is a number" theory is confirmed or denied here lmao. now would be the time, it's a reach but if they were gonna do it he'd have lost memories (and awareness of any powers) for sure

"i survived before, i can survive again" not when they've confirmed a major character death, max!!

the fact that eleven is just. finding out about all of this. all at once.

"it's not exactly a car, steve ;3" (← is standing too close to him)

whats the point of the mask if no one else has one on and ur doin this in broad daylight

eddie hot wiring car monologue iconic. also "i'm just starting this sucker. harrington's got her. don't ya, big boy?" (leans in) HELLO?? GAY?? FRUITY BEHAVIOR?? just kiss him already smh.

wait. i forgot eddie was wanted for murder. thats the point of the mask. im dumb

hope they can return that RV later lmfao

Papa back to be fucking cryptic again ← tried to draw an eyeroll emoji and failed. but i roll my eyes 🙄

"you cane to me broken. and you've learned to walk again" ok ableism. not surprising but. lmao

ok no offense steve but you saying you want kids has made me like you less (/j) my guy you already have kids they're in the RV with you lmfao. but ok truly why would they make him say all this. he's gonna die isn't he. oh god.

LMFAO same nancy. six kids steve? ur not gonna be carrying those kids.

"if only i had some practice" lmao yeah. but! these kids are not siblings. and as everyone knows, siblings will kill each other over the slightest provocation.

005

yeah they're setting up steve × nancy again for sure. hrm.

"it was a time i was the happiest" "was i there" "thats presumptuous of you" ehe. cute

prediction: vecna doesn't even go after max again. that'd be fucked up and ruin their plan.

now, robin finding out her crush has a bf could go one of two ways. but the way her crush looks back at her, im banking on the second way,

god i hate that fucking guy (← chrissy's bf)

argyle walking off on his own is gonna be the major character death /j

im gonna kill "doctor" brenner with my bare hands

the fact that el didnt immediately kill dr brenner with her bare hands is astounding

nvm she tried but he definitely deserved it

"in the face of the world ending, the stakes of my love life feel spectacularly low."

i forgot to write it down earlier but i love that steve was like. i need this jacket actually

[EPIC MUSIC PLAYING]

me caring WAY more about el hugging will than i did about el hugging mike. i was like "ok" but then ( T - T)/

i swear to god if he survives this i will rage. can dr brenner count as the major character death?

him laying in that dramatic ass pose while the camera swirls around him. lol. lmao.

will asking el "who's going to die?" and then everyone getting a dramatic close up. rude tbh.

— 800 ǝposıdǝ ɟo puǝ —

006

ok i made myself a sad microwave quesadilla let's get into it

[DELICATE, YEARNING MUSIC PLAYING]

"i needed to lose weight anyway" hopper im gonna make you eat one thousand snacks

"what does he want us to do, applaud?" robin please he might die (but then again, so might you)

tbh i wish i was being queerbaited more by this show. how funny would it have been if nancy and steve had that little moment immediately followed by a robin × nancy and steve × eddie moment. all shot exactly the same. i can have a little queerbait. as a treat.

the zoom in on nancy does have me concerned. what if vecna does go after her rather than max? to be like "ok but did you tell the child who beat me in a fight what i did? no??" while everyone, including el, is trying to protect max?

EL'S DOODLE OF MAX IN THE CONDENSATION I'M CRYINGG

i like that they didnt really mention the writing rather than talking part of the plan but it was obviously settled on at some point. it makes sense so he can't hear them on the other side

oh my GOD blonde guy just go to therapy you aren't batman you won't avenge her

i hope he crawls into the upside down or gets vecna'd or something smh

breaking back into where you just broke out is actually a perfect plan bc like. who tf would go back?

trading a single joint for access to a kitchen and 600lbs of salt? iconic.

WHYS HE MAKING A PIZZA HELP. ITS SO DRAMATIC

007

"are you ready for the most metal concert in the history of the world?" hell yiss

"right out of the gate i'm super confident. but i'm also, like, an idiot. which is just a brutal combination" DO NOT BE FORESHADOWING DO NOT BE FORESHADOWING DO NOT BE —

oh that speech for sure means he's either gonna die or at least almost die again oh noe

i had another theory that they'd kill hopper for realsies while he's still in russia. but i am. hoping thats not the case either. maybe it'll be murray or something idk. i fear.

"that hero, where is he now? because i don't see him." ha get em (yuri)

HELP the little stick figure drawing max made ... so cute ... please don't die

if el says i love you to mike rn and he still doesn't say it back ... here's how byler can still win /j (but fr my guy better say it back or else)

jonathan if you make "remember when you got a lego construction guy stuck up your nose" into a metaphor for will being gay im going. to scream.

im sorry for laughing at will getting emotional about that speech. because we understand how its meant to be taken. but he's crying because once, there was a lego man in his nose,

ok fr vecnas gonna get someone else what if its. fucking. el. oh god i don't know

max, who among us hasn't imagined their abusers dying, really? its fine bestie

ok i cannot have another passively sewer slidal character actually die horribly and violently ok do not kill max i swear to god don't

eddie's right this is the most metal concert in the history of the world

hey whos playing the drums tho?

008

if these basketball bastards hurt her (← erica) ill kill them with my bare hands

i know its for the drama of it all but he didn't actually have to play the guitar well

"MOST! METAL! EVER!" ok true even tho they can't actually tell anyone about it ... pretty badass

rip to literally everyone in russia tbh. mindflayers in everyone now

aw they had robin and nancy hold hands for one (1) second. they listened to me about queerbaiting me more. thanks!

poor robin tho bc same. balance hard

gooey balloons

ill kill this dude myself. pulling a gun on lucas?? fr?? vecna here's ur free kill buddy

i appreciate they still allow joyce to be upset / haunted by bob's death. esp when putting her into an incredibly similar situation. like they don't just ignore that it happened ykwim

AAAAA NAUR NOT THE FRUITY FOUR ALL IN PERIL AT ONCE (plus dustin) D:

EDDIE NO!! LEAVE!! i mean like i want the others to be ok and maybe you could save them but DON'T FUCKING DIE MAN!!

EL'S GONNA KICK YOUR FUCKING ASS AGAIN, VECCKY BOY!! "Hi."

OH Dustin for sure broke something on that fall oh noe. once again my boy better not die

EDDIE i am begging you to not die for no fucking reason right now

"i'm real" (elmax moment) "i piggiebacked from a pizza dough freezer." "what."

"if you touch her again. i will kill you. again." get em

update it was his leg dustin PLEASE do not die. also if eddie was a number now would definitely be the time to reveal it (← grasping at straws because i don't want him to die)

ur really gonna put el in the jesus pose rn

009

"Papa made you into this" nah he killed his family before any of that shit tbh. like. oddly enough im speaking in dr brenners defense here henry was very much a fucked up little guy before all that, and then like no offense el bc you didn't mean to but you very much did send him to the upside down and that made him all gooey and fucked up. but like odly enough this one's not (entirely) on brenner

"he did not make me into this. you did." ok but take responsibility for your actions henry! you killed your family! likely at a similar age to eleven when she whooped your ass in that fight!

henry mindflayer theory confirmed ahaha i was right!! i was right!!

YOU ALREADY HAD YOUR OWN DIMENSION HENRY!! YOU COULD HAVE REMADE THAT INTO "SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL" YOU FUCKER!! ILL KILL YOU RIGHT NOW!!

yay murray flamethrower but like is eddie ok tho like is eddie alright

fr tho can vecna count as the major character death? since they confirmed he's been fucking shit up the whole time? and season five is just vibes? a whole season of epilogue? can we do that is that allowed?

ALL THIS [EPIC MUSIC PLAYING] STUFF HAPPENING BUT WE HAVENT SEEN EDDIE MY BOY

listen. i knew it might be eddie ok. but i didn't want to believe it. im hurt

if they kill max too im gonna riot don't you FUCKING DARE

010

im fr they better let her just live and be blind we did NOT go through all of this just for them to take her away tooo

yes. resurrect her. you are a god el. do it

DONT "TWO DAYS LATER" ME RIGHT NOW!! NOT AFTER ELMAX FRIENDSHIP MONTAGE!! NOT AFTER YOU KILLED EDDIE

"near-unprecedented scale" near-unprecedented? that shit split the world into chunks! this kind of reporting is why people don't take covid seriously anymore smh

the way they give hope for max then take it away is so fucked up (but i am keeping it)

charlie (my partner) came out for a soda just to see me weeping and sniveling like a little bitch about the blorbos from my shows

(at least eddie put on the most metal concert. at least max was in lucas' arms.)

the show gives me a sprinkle of joy (the fruity ... three :c ... volunteering) and follows it up with some actual queer hope to salve my emotional wounds.

just two autistic wlw so i stop crying

NVM IT WAS ONLY THE SHORTEST REPRIEVE

011

ouchie

"I wish everyone had gotten to know him. really know him. because they would have loved him, mr. munson." we did. we did love him.

ok second confirmation that i was right and didnt misinterpret that sequence, it really was henry (fucking henry, man) pulling the strings the whole time. fucked up. i hope will gets to kill him with his bare hands

mike's hand on will's shoulder: here's how byler can still win /j

i just realized will is gonna see hopper again. here come the water works

AH i thought that car engine rev was them but its scary mystery car help

max :c

IT WAS THEM. OH.

el and joyce hug c':

"Your hair!" "My hair? Your hair!" i am crying to this dialog.

"I kinda stole your look, kid." "BITCHIN'" (← crying)

mike and hop enemies to acquaintances arc

WILL. ALSO THE PARTICLES AAA

DEATH. DECAY. WITHERING. ... HENRY. FUCKER.

#holy shit i finally finished typing it all out #clearly i have a lot of thoughts #also some nuances were lost in translation like how absolutely insane my handwriting got during some parts #stranger things #stranger things spoilers #spoilers #txtly

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bylertruther · 1 year

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crazy how people will see you bring up literal scenes from the show, quotes by the duffers, actors, casting director, and costume dept, as well as the stranger things bible/first pitch, and be like "you're so dumb and offensive, that's NOT will, i'm so sick of will being babied and 'fEmiNizEd' blah blah blah" like girl maybe you just don't like women or will byers. have you ever considered that?

maybe YOU'RE the one failing to watch this show with your eyes and ears open if you're out here straight up denying scenes from the show itself. maybe YOU'RE the one failing to see that will has always been brave not despite his fear but because of it, and it's LITERALLY his bravery that inspires mike to start a search party and kickstarts the show. maybe YOU'RE the one that has super regressive, small-minded, and one-dimensional views on what bravery looks like, what strength looks like, and all the different ways there are to be not only a man, but a person in general.

like i just don't know how you can think you possibly know more than the actual people that make this show and dedicate literal years of their lives to making it the best it can possibly be and most accurate to their creative vision LOL like. sometimes you're just wrong!!! suck it up and go find another character that you'd actually like more instead of taking one that's impressively complex and cared for in ways that we seldom see in media!! much less media as globally popular and impactful as this one is, and esp not when it comes to gay male characters!!

will is complex and layered and beloved by many precisely because of that very complexity and capacity to be many things at once that you are so bafflingly intent on erasing!! if you find yourself disagreeing with canon & the creators to the point where you have to completely remove his most important traits and reject the literal show itself, then the fact of the matter is that you just don't like him!! AND THAT'S OKAY! but at least be honest with yourself instead of digging yourself deeper and deeper into a pit of denial and trying to make it seem like the duffers are the crazy ones here and not the fucking stranger things equivalent to flat earthers like 🤦‍♂️

#i just. girl this is not a matter of opinion canon is what canon is like ??? hello. lmao #are you gonna tell me will isn't gay next. are you gonna tell me he's a jock or something. where does it end lol #when it comes to headcanons you can think whatever you want but headcanons are NOT canon #you can't look at the literal TEXT of the show and go 'hm. no actually this isn't real.'#that's just not how reality works? we need education reform immediately this is tewwwwwww much #gatekeeping will and mike forever until the end of time idc thts my toxic trait we been knew this #keep ur headcanons and enjoy them but don't try to say that they're canon #i love my trans will hc i love it and hold it to my chest so near n dear but i don't say that it's canon..... i believe many things abt #mike's character and his actions etc but i still am always open to the idea that i could be wildly wrong bc s5 isn't here yet #like. i just. can we not equate headcanons and canon . can we not look at literal scenes from the show and be like Mmmm No.#nd make it into a moral issue when it really fucking isn't. will is the way that he is like SUCK IT UPPPPPPPP GO AWAYYYYYYYY THERE #ARE OTHER CHARACTERS FOR U TO PICK FROM!!! CHOOSE ANY ONE OF THEM!!! LEAVE WILL'S ASS ALONEEEEEEE

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maddy-ferguson · 1 year

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mike stans once acknowledging mike had reasons to lash out and hurt other people won’t turn into his get out of jail free card for any less stellar behavior in his relationships within show canon. like you truly think revealing mike is gay will transform el into his guidance counsellor and console him during /their/ breakup? or all the other characters are gonna now have to ‘turn around and owe an apology to mike’ cause it was their responsibility to notice that he was repressed and coping badly and help grant him the retroactive narrative carte blache due to going through really sympathetic shit? everyone on this show has gone and is still going through the shit. a good few coped so bad, and STILL went out of their way to minimize making their problems others’. like sorry mike’s character means he has terrible coping mechanisms for his issues, me loving him involves acknowledging it’s been kinda terrible, for him AND his loved ones > ‘mike’s never done anything wrong’

this ask is 30 hours old and i planned on saying something about how i was putting an end to my st related asks hiatus that only lasted five days but then someone sent me an ask about mike losing a poll after i talked about how he was losing a poll and no one had sent me an ask and i answered it before getting to this one because i was like time is of the essence...anyway

i was gonna say rip st related asks hiatus because this one is really good. the el part i agree with especially, thinking el is gonna be all oh it's okay is like borderline offensive (# to me) and i think it kind of...denies her agency? she's a whole person with feelings and emotions who was also hurt in this relationship. she's not his mom, they're not particularly close as friends, we see her looking mad at him at the end of season 4...why would SHE be the one to console him. because he's queer in the 80s and dealing with internalized homophobia and all that sure but like...that's his ex-girlfriend who was crying over the fact that he never said i love you to her like A WEEK AGO lmao

anyway i agree with everything you said, it's not like they had any way of knowing and even then it doesn't recontextualize every single thing he's ever done wrong (which is you know...okay! normal!). and yes of course being queer in the 80s is something that makes him easy to empathize with but literally everyone has something going on. some of them are even queer in the 80s themselves. lol

#i'm sorry again don't think this is me being anti mike #i said the el thing in august and i looked for the post but i couldn't find it. i wanted to plagiarize myself #ask

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hailbuddha · 6 years

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#meme #offensive #pence #mike pence #vice president #president #trump #cartoon #joke #lol #gay pride

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hawkinsschoolcounselor · 3 years

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I just imagined a scene where El would compare the main character to Will after watching it. Will obviously takes offense to this, and gets mad at El(I feel like it would be in a way where the audience thinks that Will is mad because he’s reminded of the possession he went through, and though while it is a part of why he’s mad it’s not the only reason *cough* the gay subtext *cough*)

I don’t think Will would yell at El or anything. But it would be obvious he’s a little pissed off. And then maybe later on during his birthday. El draws him something as a present. And she would apologize and say something about wanting to be an artist like him so she drew something for his birthday. Will accepts the apology and they hug.

I know this was sorta descriptive and probably won’t happen but I just thought of all this and wanted to share. I guess it’s just the fanfic writer in me lol.

Hey, I'm down for any scenes that can help Will comes to terms with himself while also bonding with El. I absolutely dread the possibility that she would become insanely jealous and/or possessive with Mike if she found out Will liked him. It would diminish all three of their characters.

#stranger things 4 #will byers #eleven

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kaypeace21 · 4 years

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i'm losing hope of byler being an endgame :( milevens say that we are invalidating mileven, besides having several scenes that they show "passion/love". they make fun of us, besides always giving reasons why mileven is an endgame, and disrespecting other people's ship, and maybe actually Will will be with another boy right?? idk but I really hope I'm not being deluded

lol lets not focus on byler for a sec and mostly discuss mileven. what scenes show mileven’s ‘passion/love’? Because the show invalidates mileven constantly-why they’re so aggressive/afraid of us.THEY KNOW IT’S DOOMED (they live in head canons and nothing else). I’m going to try keeping this short by doing bullet points.

-The writers in s3 threw in a telemarketing joke just for Mike to say “El. no. sorry not interested” and hang up the phone.

- Flo in s1: “only love makes you that crazy and that damn stupid.”

Mike: “if we’re both going crazy. we’ll go crazy together right?”will: “yeah, crazy together “ *smile and stare longingly at eachother *————————————————————-Mike: “they do say it makes you crazy”El: “what makes you crazy?”(the exact opposite of crazy together as she continues to be confused over every explanation he gives of love 😂)————————————————————-During the byler fight Mike says “el’s not stupid!” After this, Will calls himself “ so stupid “ 4x . rips up photo where they said they’d go crazy together and cries . But, El after fighting with mike happily says: “there’s more to life than STUPID boys .” El’s catchphrase being “not stupid” which she says in s2 before going to see Mike at the school. And Nancy before Mike says he loves El / Mikeduring the byler fight (about mileven) say “El’s not stupid!”

original gifs sources

-the s3 stobin confession parallels mileven’s s3 shop confession (full analysis in link). Both El/Robin have bandages on their legs and both pairings sit together (on the floor) during their confessions- and are interrupted by Dustin. And in both straight baits- the guys use the terms “stupid/crazy” but subvert the expectation of it being romantic-as both girls say they’re not “crazy” or “stupid” for the guy. El saying “what makes you crazy?” in response to Mike. And Robin saying she was not into Steve’s “stupid hair” (similar to El saying there’s more to life than ‘stupid boys’/other saying she’s not stupid.”Also the song ‘the first i love you’ only plays twice in s3. During Steve’s romantic confession and robin rejecting him because she’s gay & El’s romantic confession and awkward kiss with mike (where Mike doesn’t reciprocate). Cause Robin/Mike are both gay and will reject the romantic confession.

- Erica making he-man and barbie kiss: “Hey , They’re in love!”Lucas (livid- and standing right next to a rainbow forcing them apart): “No, actually, they’re not. they’re not even from the same planet.” El even watches he-man in s1! Mileven is not in love!

Cue El and mike being compared to ET and Eliot -WHO AREN’T FROM THE SAME PLANET (by the Duffers in multiple interviews and in the pilot script ) . And then there’s the old euphemism of “girls come from Venus, and boys come from Mars”. The Duffers saying mileven isn’t in love cause they’re not from the same planet (aka the same gender) -is just them telling us Mike is gay so he can’t fall for El-who is a girl/diff species. They literally have Will say to Mike “welcome to my world” as a contrast. So El telling mike he should ‘stick with his own species’ (aka boys) is another gay hint.

In s2 they even had El wear the same shirt as a 1986 movie character (staring Winona Ryder). The movie is called coincidentally “lucas”- and he’s in an unrequited romantic relationship with a gal named maggie. And he later says him and Maggie are from “different worlds.” El being movie-Lucas in a unrequited romance, in this scenario. And the other easteregg is the Duffers have st-Lucas say the “planet/worlds” similar to movie-Lucas.

some milevens also attribute romeo/juliet to mileven cause Dustin mentioned it while mileven was out of shot. But romeo & juliet weren’t actually in love-it was just kids in infatuation. And also used to describe the unrequited infatuation of Lucas/Maggie.

-Also when dustin in s1 says el is “like a wizard” (like Will.) Mike corrects dustin and says “more like yoda”. Really hammering down the alien references- which the Duffers reference to el in interviews all the time-by comparing her to et . In the pilot they even said mike and el are like “Eliot and et.” They said they made el dress like a ghost cause et did so- and then for the extra burn they made mike a ghost hunter/buster. And they also said that EL’s makeover in s1 was like et’s in the movie. And sorry ... who compares the girl they “crush on” with a green gross alien (yoda)- kind of shows how he sees her more as this foreign superpowered entity rather than a girl/crush. And on what planet is et /Eliot romantic??Answer is -it’s not.

- In contrast, They have Mike and Will parallel Diane and Venkman. In ghost Busters, Mike -is Venkman- and Will -is Dana Barret- who Venkman flirts with shamelessly until she is possessed. Dana finds a demon-dog in her fridge, and hires the ghost busters. And right before Venkman goes on a date with her she is possessed by the big-bad, Zuul, and is transformed into the gate-keeper (who controls demo(n)-dogs). Venkman proceeded to try to talk to the real Dana , ignoring her possessed form and eventually realizes how serious her condition is, is forced to sedate her. Eventually with the help of his team, Venkman closes the gate to Zuul’s dimension, rescuing Dana in the process. And Venkman plants one on Dana before riding away in triumph. While, El is a ghost and Mike is a ghost hunter XD

Notice in the same season lucas says mileven is ‘not in love’ and compares mileven to he-man and barbie . Dustin has a he-man & Et next to each other (along with a ghost buster sign above them, and the ghostbusters-trap next to et). This just reinforces the mileven eastereggs I’ve already talked about - and how they want you to make the connections about mileven not being in love. They showed et/barbie next to he-man, had El watch he-man, compared El to Et (who had a barbie-like makeover/ghost costume), so the next he-man ref of ‘not being in love’ cause rhey’re from different planets would connect in a more obvious way to mileven. Same with Et next to the ghost trap and ghost busters sign (and El dressing as a ghost and Mike as a ghost buster-as an extra burn).

- Mike dehumanizing El is hammered down again when they compare s1 mileven to s2 dart /dustin (a demo dog) , to further show how un-romantic it is. Fin even said the duffers told him Mike saw el (OFFENSIVELY) as a “puppy’ (right after s1). And of course millie accurately said “what a horrible way to describe me!”But the parallels are there: Dustin/Mike sharing sweets ( nougat vs eggos) for breakfast and saying they’ll have to wait for them to come home from school. And having mike annoyed, say “a bond? cause you shared nougat?!” is dissing milevens who think the ego thing is cute/romantic. Dustin/Mike saying they ‘promised’ to take care of them and that they ‘trust’ dustin & mike. Dart killing a cat and El almost killing a cat. Dustin/Mike trying to convince Lucas- Dart & El aren’t bad. The boys thinking both El & Dart were bad guys causing both to end up running away because of that. Mike even admits in s1 he doesn’t like eggos and told El she doesn’t have to eat “like a dog” anymore. it’s ironic when Mike says to Dustin “she’s not a dog” cause he treated her as such. Why El says in s3 angrily , “am I your pet?” It’s because he did/does unfortunately treat her this way to some degree.

-They Parallel Mileven to Hopper & El (since mileven isn’t actually romantic)!

*teaching the meaning of promise vs com-promise. And making “promises” to eachother is not some super romantic thing- for just mileven.

* Telling her to eat “real food” vs eggos

* saying her new look is “cool”and saying it’s “bitchin” after El says the look is.

* Saying others are “corrupting her” and in response gals say neither respect her ability to make “decisions” in regards to romance. Hopper not accepting Mileven together (want them to break up) and Mike not accepting she dumped him.

* Max saying to not let Hopper/Mike control her

*El saying “you lie” to both of them

ok , back to listing other points

- they dance to ‘every breath you take’ a break up song about a stalker ex who can’t accept he is now with her friend. The writer of the song also has said many times “it’s NOT a love song.” The duffers obviously knew that. Lumax also danced to it and Lucas was called a ‘stalker’ . El also stalked Mike in s2 (all that stuff milevens found romantic- El watching him without him knowing. Mike says he was not ok with it in s3). And in s3 he said not to do that and she just says ‘i make my own rules’.Plus, sting (the singer) mentions it’s supposed to sound romantic but the lyrics are sinister. And that the ambiguity/deceptive happy -romantic tone was intentional. Kind of like how people think mileven is healthy and in love when the show (ambiguosly says ) that it’s not -and the “opposite”.Just like the song being misinterpreted as romantic because of its deceptive packaging -mileven is the same . Mileven got popular cause everyone missed all the warning signs it wasn’t healthy (cause it was packaged as ‘cute’ and ‘ in love’) when behind the surface it was shown to be the opposite and not healthy.

Not to mention Nancy teaching Dustin how to dance is a direct parallel to Mike teaching El.

Mike also tries to act like Dustin, and forces Will to dance with a girl (who’s wearing a rainbow hair clip). Trying to be a good sport like Dustin is about lumax. And right after this we see Dustin look sad about Max/Lucas dancing and Mike (next to Dustin) look sadly at Will/girl dancing in the same exact frame as Max/Lucas. As they switch between these 2 shots to emphasize their sadness/jealousy.Then they both sit down (mirroring each other) on the verge of tears before Nancy and El show up to comfort them and distract them. As El once again (presumably) wears Nancy’s dress. Mike after El asks “will you be my brother?” “you cant go (to the snowball) with your sister... i mean you can but it’d be really weird.”

- before their first kiss in s1 she asked if he would be like her brother (after being compared to a cousin, and being compared to Holly, and wearing Nancy’s dress.) In s2 they even make a direct parallel to Luke &Leia (who were siblings who had a weird romantic relationship/kissed before realizing they were related). Mike (as Leia) saying “it’s a trap” to El (Luke).

- Mike in s1 writes a d&d story for Will inspired by star wars. in ep one Will tells Mike “it was a 7, the demogorgan it got me.”At the end of the season Mike writes a whole story of him and his friends killing a 7 headed monster, and showing the decapitated head of the monster to king Tristan (Will). Similar to how at the hospital he tells Will to not worry cause “it’s dead now”. This is right after Will rolls a 14 (cause Mike and Will are 7s together). And Mike who is a fan of starwars has King Tristan give them medals after killing the monster. Cause he wants Will/king tristan (instead of Leia -a girl) to present him with medals and be his romantic love interest (and praise him for being a hero).

- They had Dustin call mileven “bullshit” just like stancy (who were never in love). And in s3 for almost every single character in the show to dislike mileven . if that isn’t a cry for help from the writers idk what is XD

other stancy parallels: Making out on a bed to cheesy music. stancy wasn’t in love but they kissed the most in the series and nancy and steve (similar to mileven exchanged ‘i love yous’) but weren’t endgame and it was never love. Mike and Steve sing to their gfs and neither girls are fans and cut them off.In s1, both Nancy/Mike slap Steve and El and then both yell “ What is wrong with you?!” Stancy/mileven are compared to Karen/ted who according to Nancy “never loved each other”. El is a fan of ted’s lazy boy. (Karen in s3 looks at Ted in the chair when the lyric “I should have walked away “ plays). And Steve and ted continuing to eat chicken as their gf /wife storm off from the table upset , and they do nothing. After the mileven and Karen/Ted fight- Steve says while eating “what did I do?what did i do?” And mike while eating says about el after their fight “what did i do wrong? what did i do wrong?!Steve and Ted both tell Mike to “stay on the bench/you’re on the bench.” Karen/ ted that they “never loved each other” (just like mileven and stancy which are “bullshit.”) All 3 wheelers were with people cause it seemed like the rational choice ( rich guy/ popular guy/ girl). Not to mention mike said “ I don’t remember” ( in reference to saying he loved el ) . And doesn’t say it back when el says “I love you”. Which mimics Nancy in s2 saying “I don’t remember ” (saying the stancy relationship is bs) . And she is also unable to say she loves Steve when he says“say you love me.” And Steve and el walking away as both wheelers stand there in silence. Unable to say “I love you” back. Also, when stancy officially breakup it also pans to mileven on the porch as another parallel.And 11byers mentioned (at Christmas) jancy has a moment but despite stancy’s issues she goes back to Steve where she looks sad over the decision . Similar to how Byler have a moment , but then after , mileven talks about christmas and they have that awkward kiss. In s3, steve when talking about stancy and trying to be popular even says “dustin’s right it’s all a bunch of bullshit.” (meaning Dustin’s right about mileven). Steve even says “everything people tell you is important that you’re supposed to care about- it’s bullshit.” (same season Mike mimics Lucas’ words from s1 about El being the “most important thing”.

-They also had Mike tell Max “i don’t hate you. I don’t even know you.” Aka he can’t hate Max or love el cause he knew both for a week-and doesn’t know them. The amount of mileven burns that were in s2 -were insane XD.

other direct contrasts between Mileven & byler

besides the ones already mentioned. 1) ‘crazy together/so stupid’ vs ‘what makes you crazy?/el’s not stupid/more to life than stupid boys & 2) ‘they’re not in love they’re not even from the same planet’ vs byler’s ‘welcome to my world’

3) Mike has drastically different expressions after the byler/mileven fights and the difference in weather and music selection ,convey how Mike is feeling. He looks regretful with Will, and almost annoyed with El dumping him. Mileven breaks up to upbeat music on a sunny day (the break up being in front a crowd and a joke) vs the morose music and the storm shown (with just Mike and Will fighting ). We are supposed to take the byler fight seriously and the mileven one as a joke.They had Mike apologize to Will immediately. But with El he says “what did i do wrong?’ (Kind of like how ted, after pissing off karen says “what did I do?”)And then had Mike wait by the phone for her to apologize- says sexist stuff about her. Then have mike laugh/burp and talk about cheese and El to laugh about the break up/high five max and immediately oggle a pic of another boy/male celeb (unlike Will who looks sadly at the pic of Mike after their fight). And then after staring at the teen-male celeb, El says she’s not sure if Mike’s a good kisser cause he’s just her “first boyfriend” and she has no other boys to compare him to (implying she’s thinking of other boys in the future). Contrasted to Will who said he thought him & Mike would never get gfs but just spend the rest of their lives together. El after all these events, then happily reads comics as Max says she shouldn’t hang out with Mike all the time. VS Will having him sadly read his comic to distract himself only to throw his comic on the ground right before he looks at the pic of mike from Halloween (where they said they would go ‘crazy together’), calls himself stupid (unlike El saying there’s more to life than stupid boys/mike saying El is not stupid-aka in love ). And then destroys castle byers /crIES after the their fight. These events were perfect opposites.

4) When Mike says in the pool shed she’s the “most important thing in the world” to him. she cuts him off and says Hopper is right about them spending too much time together. But when Mike in the shed says asking Will to be his friend was the “best thing he’s ever done” (it was practically the cliche of true love breaking the curse) XD.

When Mike says to El “you’re most important thing to me” in the pool shed. El doesn’t even acknowledge the comment (and neither should the audience- cause the words were empty). The framing of this mileven scene was not cinematic or heartfelt, and neither was the delivery from Mike. He’s not crying, trying to reach her with proclamations of his genuine feelings. There’s no dramatic music, framing, lighting or shot composition (and the scene was incredibly short).And El just responds and cuts his supposed ‘true feelings’ off- only to agree with Hopper and says “ what if he’s right” . I didn’t speed this up FYI.

Juxtaposed to the MUCH longer byler shed scene. A literal single tear falling down his cheek as Mike , recounts the first day they met. This whole monologue is only of tight shots of just their faces (their bodies aren’t shown like in the pool shed scene). With contrasting colors of light and shadow.This is a personal moment between them and them alone- and the fact we zoom in on their faces (expresses this to be important emotionally) . And when we see Will’s reaction to Mike saying “it was the best thing I’ve ever done”. We just see Will’s face only- no music is playing and all we hear is Will’s whimpers and Mike crying in the background.*

5) Max in s2 at Will’s house questions how Mike can still trust Will now that he’s a spy for the mf . Max (in s3) at El’s house: says that Mike doesn’t trust El- and Mike mentions that her spying is why he doesn’t trust her. in s2, Mike: “if anyone could stop them it’s Will“. Max: “ I thought we couldn’t trust him that he’s a spy for the mf now?” Max in s3 calling Mike out : “El has saved the world twice. And Mike still doesn’t trust her.” Mike: you want to talk about trust really?! after... Eleven spied on us! I guess girlfriends don’t lie they SPY!”

Not to mention - the fact is... El has “saved the world twice but Mike still doesn’t trust her” to fight the mf. Yet he 100% believed Will could defeat the mf -despite Will being possessed/a spy for the mf . And despite the fact Mike thinks Will has no powers - unlike El ( but we all know he does , though :P). And, Mike even says Billy is dangerous cause the “mf is in him ...Billy’s mind is sick, diseased” (but with Will possession -Mike still trusted him). Max rolls her eyes and stares challengingly at Mike cause she remembers what Mike said about Will in s2- and the hypocrisy . And she finds it annoying how little faith he has in her compared to his almost unmoving-trust in Will (who at the time was possessed) . Mike has 100% trust and faith in Will-but simply doesn’t trust El. And MAX KNOWS IT! Cause she’s paying attention. Like her facial expression/raised brow, at the end, is a challenge- you think non-superpowered Will could defeat the mf but not El with a history of fighting monsters? You say Billy possessed by the mf is dangerous- but still have more faith in Will possessed by the mf- than your own gf?! tbh El couldn’t defeat the mf (so technically him trusting Will over El was proven to be correct). He wasn’t right about the El ‘giving up’ bs and he was still wrong for not respecting El as her “own person” with her “own free will” : not believing in El’s ability to make decisions like breaking up with him/ not believing El made the idea to spy on him, etc . But, Team work has always been what saved the day in s1-2, so over-relying on El to do it all and acting like she was the messiah ( like most of the st fanbase) was a poor plan . It’s not the El-show (it’s an ensemble cast with several mains). When they relied on her only ,to be the chosen one- she lost her powers, 30+ people d*ed, and they had to save her.

6) ) El and Will both calling for “Mike” alone in the upside down . And Mike “never giving up” on them.In the exact same ep (s2 e2) , both call for Mike from the upside down. El saves herself without Mike’s help. But Mike rushes to save Will crouching to comfort Will (whose body language mirrors El’s but who was alone in the forest after she sees mike and he did nothing).

in s2 ep 1, both call for Mike ,but Mike only comes for Will -not el. It was like how Nancy in s1 called for Jon, and jonathan pulled her out of the upsidedown. And as Jonathan and Mike both pull Nancy and Will back from the upside down , Jonathan says “I got you”. And Mike says “I got him “ twice. But mileven is like how barb while in the upsidedown called for Nancy (but nancy didn’t hear her screaming her name-cause it shows symbolically Nancy does not return Barb’s romantic feelings). Just like mileven.

Mike even saw Will��s dead body but the second he heard his voice he convinced everyone he was alive. Mike deep down assumed El was dead he brushed off seeing El as seeing things (like how Hopper described seeing Sarah). He even tells Max “ they took her just like they took bob” who was dead. Then a few minutes later lies and says he “never gave up” on her when she appears alive (which was a lie cause he just said she was dead). When El goes to his house Mike doesn’t ever go the forest to find her (unlike how Mike went into the forest in the pouring rain twice for Will). The truth is the only person he ‘never gave up on’ was Will.

7) They have El & Will have pics of Mike on Halloween (same night of the ‘crazy together’ speech). El only has a pic of Mike being miserable and Will has pics of Mike staring at Will, and smiling next to him- despite the joke Mike never smiles in photos , this isn’t the case when mike is next to Will (he always smiles with Will). Cause being crazy with Will makes him happy - unlike his relationship with El who he fakes being ‘crazy’ about .

zoom in of Will & El’s pics of Mike: Will’s pic on left vs El’s on right . XD

8) Millie said El is “obsessed with Mike” so she has Mike-themed stuff all over her room. She has a drawing with a heart that says mike on it/random heart pics, mike pic, dice that spell out mike, mikes’ stuff. So, It’s funny that mike has nothing relating to El at his place. In contrast to this, he still has 5 d&d drawings from Will on his wall (that he’s kept on his wall for 3 years despite removing an old poster from that same wall-which he gave to El). Mike even put up a 6th Will-drawing in s3- next to his new poster. And he never put a single 1 of her many drawings on his wall-just Will’s).

back to other points...

- They compared mileven to karen/billy. El in s2 , mimics Erica Kane who m(in the ep she is watching) rushes into a relationship with a writer named Mike Roy. (That relationship is not endgame-and literally ends with one of them stalking and sabotaging their next relationship, but eventually accepting it’s over). This, also parallels Karen/ Billy. Before she meets him in s2, Karen is reading a romance book that has a guy that resembles Billy on the cover. The Duffers even mentioned they changed the cover to show the resemblance between Billy and the fictional book character. And we see Karen reading the sequel in s3 before Billy appears. Both El and Karen don’t/didn’t love Mike or Billy- they just projected onto them fictional characters they were infatuated with. El being into Mike roy- but projecting her crush on to Mike wheeler.

-They had El’s whole s2 arc be destroyed to show mileven is bad for her. “friends don’t lie” to let me lie to my friends so I can kiss mike and ditch them. lucas even said “they’re lying (about her curfew).”And lie to Mike about hearing his confession. Then in s2 trying to leave the cabin to experience the world and see my friends and fam again. To literally ignoring them all for 6 months and never leaving the cabin-despite Hopper letting me leave the house in s3.

- El in s3 says Mike treats her “like a pet” and “garbage”.

-In s1 Mike referred to her as a ‘weapon’ to help get Will back. smacked her when he thought she lied about Will being alive and said Lucas was right about her all along when he thought Will was dead and he couldn’t use her anymore.

- They had El never apologize for spying/stalking . And Mike never apologize for lying -despite it being the cause of the breakup . And had mike not reciprocate the kiss/ or say ‘i love you ‘ back and had his eyes open while the same exact song plays that robin came out to: called ‘the first i love you’). These are the only 2 times the song plays in s3. The ‘first i love you’ also sounds like ‘the first lie’ - that song played when jancy said they were just friends. it sounds the same cause jancy lied about it not being romantic while mileven lied by saying it was. He never apologized for lying cause the love is the lie- like Max said “boyfriends lie ALL THE TIME”. And it’s why the camera panned to Will when Lucas asked why Mike lied to her. And he never answers El’s question of ‘why do you lie?!’ (he just looks up silent and guilt ridden).This awkward kiss all happens in Will’s room too while Mike is in front of an open closet (while El is holding Will’s old bear).

Plus he also fought with Hopper in s2 (’about El’) in Will’s room too. He wasn’t actually calling Hopper the liar he was calling himself “a stupid disgusting liar”out of self hate . That scene was foreshadowing his lying to El in s3 (about his feelings for her). He blamed Hopper for his feelings for Will cause he told himself it wouldn’t have escalated if El had been around to ‘fix him’ . “I BLAME YOU! NOTHING ABOUT THIS IS OK! NOTHING ABOUT THIS IS OK. YOU STUPID DISGUSTING liar, liar, liar, liar”.starts crying.

- Mike says “i never gave up on you (to El). “ When moments earlier he says “it took her just like it took Bob.” HE’S LYING AGAIN. He always thought she was dead -he was just hoping she was alive so he didn’t have to blame himself. He felt bad for treating her like a “weapon”. Mike saw El and didn’t even bother looking for her in the woods cause he assumed she was dead and was hallucinating. Mike saw Will’s dead body- but heard his voice and got him from another dimension (for El he couldn’t even bother to walk into the woods). Despite going into the woods in the pouring rain 2x for Will in s1& 3. El and Mike both call for Mike in the upside down (Mike in the same ep only comes for Will).

- They barely spoke to each other and all they did was makeout for 1 ep (while Mike put a drawing of ‘Will (the fire wielding) wise’ on the wall to help him kiss her/ with rainbows pic everywhere in the room to signify he’s gay and lying). All while listening to a mixtape Will gave him as he kisses El.As Mike moves her hands off him (and sings a song from ‘boy in the box’) and El says to Max later she doesn’t know if mike’s a good kisser . And Mike rushes to one of his many established double-dates with Will and lumax (x). And Mike in s3 when dating el, removes the sign of the heart being propelled by a rainbow (which he had before meeting El in his basement) .BUT it follows him symbolically ,as a drawing of a heart being propelled by a rainbow (in el’s room- cause no matter how much he kisses el there, he can’t escape his rainbow/being gay.)

-as mileven kiss in s3 e1. We zoom in on the drawing of Will the wise (the lyrics over the pic are “a little more time can open closing doors”). And then Mike continues to sing this song from ‘boy in the box’ (cough closet).Will in s3e1 says he won’t fall in love and the song then a diff song plays “love that was new to you , you open up the door.” mileven at the end of s3 kissing in front of Will’s open closet door with Mike’s eyes open not kissing back , and saying he doesn’t “ remember “ the love you and just says it was “in the heat of the moment”. The mike song being from “boy in the box” (closet). And they make out to “I can’t fight this feeling” which the singer says is about wanting to admit your feelings to your friend of many years and being afraid it’ll ruin the relationship. Aka even when kissing El he’s thinking of Will and admitting his feelings and not being able to fight his feelings

- Mike saying about Max “awesome? you don’t even know her.” Dustin says “ i don’t have to i mean look at her.” El was said in s1 multiple times to look like a boy (specifically Will). So Dustin and Lucas had no interest in her -only Mike did. BUT when max (a girl who looked like a girl) arrived- they as straight boys were smitten. And Mike was not interested at all (cause he’s gay). The fact people don’t realize Mike was rude to her because he thought Will liked her too makes me laugh - he even was 1/2 honest in s3 saying he was jealous of her XD

why in s3 (when she looks like a girl) the compliment to her look is almost the same as Hopper’s comment to her makeover in s2. Paralleling Mike to her dad is the opposite of romantic!

-people say in s3 Will saying “a day free of girls” is gay coded but everyone ignores Mike in s3 saying “BOYS ONLY”. Same energy.

-MiKE has more rainbows than Will: Mike’s rainbow bedroom blinds, the rainbow-heart wooden sign in the basement in s1, the rainbow heart drawing that says Mike in s3, a rainbow sticker in his room, byler standing behind a rainbow poster in s2. And Will with the rainbow ship and the girl he danced with having a rainbow hearts-hairclip.

- People mention Mike saving El in s3 was romantic ( when he hit Billy). But when Billy slapped max he charged in to save her too and tried punching him (despite their beef). that moment wasn’t romantic (unless you think madweheeler is- which no). Mike is just a good person- he also risked his life for dustin. He’s brave and will defend HIS FRIENDS.

- we’re almost to the end for those not keeping tract mileven is compared to stancy, ted/karen, karen/billy, stobin, Dart/Dustin, max &mike, barb/nancy, nancy & dustin, siblings & cousins & a parent/kid dynamic. And contrasted to byler.

- Finn, after s1, said the duffers told him, Mike thinks of her as a “puppy/ “et” , and that Mileven was a “first summer love thing”- foreshadowing what was mileven’s downfall during the Summer (aka s3). He repeats this “first summer love” phrase 2x. Millie when he mentioned what the duffers said, rightfully thought the puppy thing was “awful”, but Finn was clearly told mileven doesn’t last -very early on.Summer love” by definition fails-as it only lasts during the summer.

-It wasn’t a break it was a breakup. Like Max and Will said in response to Mike “ she said she dumped your ass! That doesn’t sound like a break?!/ it wasn’t!’ Or El knocking all the candy out of the machine, except the kit kat Mike wanted. Slogan of kit-kat “ having a break , have a kit kat.” In other words, it was NOT a break. It was a breakup. Difference is - in s4 it’ll be El who can’t accept this fact , not Mike. Max having to correct El that Mike is her “ex boyfriend” after the breakup (in s3) foreshadows this.The other couples in s3 who fought -were always still paired together in framed shots (jancy/ lumax) were on a break (but got back together- by the end of s3, not confident about their futures together, but they still have a distinction from mileven-based on such framing). That mileven didn’t get back together. El in s3 was always on her own and Mike was paired with Will (while the other couples were in frame).

this could go on and on honestly. there’s so much other stuff proving mileven is not going to be endgame. Not to mention all of Mike’s queer coding (x) XD

#byler #byeler #anti mileven

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